I am pleased to announce that the pancakes are winning this battle of the foods! And no, french toast doesn't count as a vote for either party. >: ( (but I won't say no if you're making, just saying)
Then Stormbringer merely scratches Gwent, Gwent’s soul is sucked out and sent straight to chaos/h!ll (no saving throw blotches!), Elric gets the crazy level up/health boost, and the Gwent “music” ends
I was 16 when I read that. Man I was totally broken and devastated afterwards. What a dreary, dark, frustrating, sinister, depressing book. Incredibly well written, but oh my god... I really hate the book now. It nearly pushed me into a depression.
@@raulduke3237 I've read all of the main six books, and stand by my statement. Elric is well learned and book smart, especially in the matters of magic, but the man has no common sense whatsoever and made almost all of his own problems through horrible decisions.
@@azazelreeds I think that because Elric is still a Melnibonean, the race had always described as alien and extremely different from mankind both emotionally and mentally, the Melnibonean thinking are much closer to cats than humans with a terrifying callous nature, they were aristocratic, arrogant, decadent, sadistic and cruel and their reverence towards tradition what keeps their ruthlessness in check.
Moorcock is a great writer and fantastic person. I once posted a question years and years ago on a fan forum about a potential Elric game and he responded and we traded a few emails. Turns our there was once a game planned but it didn't pan out. He lives in Texas now, not far outside Austin where I am.
They made a show. Started writing it a year after the Wither show came out. The producers, in a huge touch of irony, scrapped the show over fears it was too much like the Witcher.
@@robertporter6683 For sure, considering the first time I saw the Witcher I thought that reminded me of Elric. I read the books back in the early 80's.
Michael Moorcock himself credits Poul Anderson's 'Three Hearts and Three Lions" (1953) as an inspiration in the forward to "Elric of Melniboné' (1972). In the book, the plane-hopping protagonist encounters a cruel and aloof elfin race called The Pharisees of Caer Sidi. Later, in the Dungeons & Dragons Module Q1 'Queen of the Demonweb Pits' (1980), a magic portal can be found in Lolth's layer of the Abyss that leads directly to the literal Kingdom of Caer Sidi from 'Three Hearts and Three Lions', in a direct nod from Gary Gygax as to the inspiration for his own Drow Elves. GW's Warhammer Druchii Elves (and, by extension, the Dark Eldar of 40k) are something of a Sci-Fantasy soup of other stories, and the whole Law vs Chaos alignment thing should be obvious. And, if you read all this, be sure to check out the "Nemesis the Warlock' comic from '2000 A.D.' and compare it to Warhammer.
I feel without Moorcock and Elric i would never have grown up with The Legacy of Kain series. Kain is so much like Elric. Powerful posessed sword. Speaks poetically and cryptically and is DEFINITELY not a hero and fights to change his and all vampires cruel fate and for Nosgoth
And if that's not enough musical references for ya, there's a modern metal band simply called Eternal Champion. Three guesses where they got the idea for that name. :)
I personally think that the team that is doing the castlevania Netflix series should do elric and witcher series because in my personal opinion they can do more with animation and stay true to source material. The current witcher on Netflix just reminds me of a grittier xena warrior princess
I heard about this one, very happy to hear someone who will actually talk about both series and not just hate on one of them. Thank you for this, I was always curious where all the hate is from.
I think the hate comes from the witchers creator not admitting to take inspiration from elric even though he translated the elric books to polish the very same year he seems to had written the draft for Witcher. If the mad at least admits he was inspired by elric there would be far less hate.
The hate is born of frustration. I have been thirsting for Elric content ever since reading the books in 1980. Then along comes this charlatan who rehashes played faerie tale tropes. Sapkowsky ripped off Moorcock while translating Moorcock's work.and has enjoyed more success for it. It is wrong, because The tale of Elric is far superior. He is a doomed emperor of a dying kingdom, weilding a sentient sword that drinks souls. Geralt is a monster hunter. OOOOO!!!! How deep.
All that rage towards Sapkowski as a supposed plagiarist always bothered me, in part because I actually started reading Elric series based on Sapkowski's recommendation. He mentions Moorcock quite a bit in his fantasy compendium titled "Rękopis znaleziony w smoczej jaskini" ("Manusript Discovered in a Dragon's Cave") -- which is where the Canon of Fantasy Literature you mentioned comes from. And by the way: "[...] he'll often mention polish folklore [...]"? You're sure about that? As far as I can tell, he keeps mentioning English-speaking fantasy authors, celtic mythology and, of course, Arthurian legend (he even published a book about it). As to slavic folklore, I mostly recall him mocking Polish fantasy writers that relied on it in a article from early 90' -- "Piróg albo Nie ma złota w Szarych Górach". Incidentally, I just found an English translation on reddit: "Piróg or there is no gold in Gray Mountains". So rejoice -- you can actually read some of Sapkowski's views on fantasy without learning Polish.
People who become outraged that fantasy writers lift ideas from other fantasy writers are the kind of people who think professional wrestling being staged is some sort of deep, dark secret. Everybody already knows, and people either see it as part of the fun or just don't care.
There is also a problem with some of the readers when it comes to the classic fantasy, like Elric, Conan or Fafhdr - it is certain arrogance directed to newer fans, who start their adventure with more modern heroes like Witcher, GoT or Malazan Book of the Fallen. Fantasy evolves, but also constantly reinvents some troupes - similarities are more or less inevitable and sometimes very much intended. You have to scratch under the surface to find out what is really new and if it is worth your reading. Personally I find creating Moorcock image as very original writer in comparison to Sapkowski missing all the added value that specific characters, their interactions, humor and quality of writing that are trademarks of AS style. Moorcock was solid adventure teller even in his Conan phase, while Sapkowski is first and foremost character and dialogue writer.
Oh, and I absolutely agree that polish folklore is almost non-existant in Witcher (books), especially compared to games, that literally use whole long parts of polish romantic literature classics of XIX century (Słowacki and Mickiewicz). On the other hand, many characters are very polish in terms of behavior, interactions, dillemas and such. The closest to that is mentioned in your video „Edge of the world” story with its peasants.
Well, Striga is from easter european folklore, story about dragon is directly mentioning a polish legend about killing a dragon from the Wawel Hill, there's a reference to a polish legend about a basilisk... There's a bit of polish folklore.
@@rarr2130 See, but the dragon is actually classic case where Sapkowski is using polish folklore just as a wink to the audience, "subverting their expectations". What is actually taken from polish folklore is peasant mob and its leader. In polish folklore he is a main hero of the story - smart boy that kills a beast. Here he is a primitive ridiculed by all the main characters - and the story is not about killing a dragon in the first place. It is main thing with Sapkowski - he is not using slavic folklore tropes because he is very interested in them on their own.
Moorcock's blend of allegorical and pulpy storytelling in an almost poetic high language is a relic and a treasure we may never find again. Sapkowski's mélange of fables and chronicles of the everyman has an almost irrestible and paradoxical charm where high fantasy becomes approchable, current, immediate, without losing a touch of mystery. I love both.
If you want to read other Moorcock books his Oswald Bastable novels are the coolest uchronias out there.... with all kinds of references to real life historical figures.
Goethe created the original viral emo character: Young Werther. The way Werther dressed even became popular among the romantic suicide idolizing youths...
Ahem. We Goths were there long before anybody in America came up with the term "Emo". And the hippy metallers were there before us. Moorcock was an intermittent member of Hawkwind, after all. Chronicles of the Black Sword, and all that.
This was definitely the best "Elric vs. Geralt" videos that have been popping up lately. My stance aligns with yours. Witcher has similarities, sometimes quite blatant, but it's also very different in other areas. I definitely wouldn't call it plagiarism, but I wouldn't mind if Sapkowski acknowledged Moorcock as his literary influence. On the other hand, these "scandal" video about Geralt and Elric have given Moorcock some exposition, at least. You mentioned it in the video, Moorcock is probably getting less recognition nowadays than he should.
What makes me rather icky with Witcher haters are they really often use Elric series as the point of contentious & mockery to Witcher series, even though I can totally see some of this people likely never read Witcher books or even Elric books in the first place. Meanwhile, one of the biggest most blatant so called "rip off" of Moorcock works is actually Warhammer/W40K franchise. Nobody even make a this petty "VS comparison" about it.
Yeah, you're right. But if I had to list all of the influences culture has had on me, the list could get impossibly long. Ultimately, there is nothing new under the sun. The Witcher is also deliberately derivative... he faces the Beast from Beauty in the Beast, for crying out loud. He's obviously been taking beats from everything from Moorcock to Disney to Kurasawa. I never thought of Geralt as a parody of Elric, but rather the edge lord character tropes that young male rpg nerds CONSTANTLY default to... oddly enough, probably inspired by Elric. But hey... the first question I would ask would be, "would Moorcock be upset by the Witcher?" He'd probably think he's rad.
Been reading Elric since the 70's as a kid, and loved most of Moorcock's work, along with the Elric stories (not forgetting Corum and Hawkmoon) - but I also loved The Witcher games and read the books as they were translated into English. Room for both imo, regardless of any similarities, they are both very enjoyable. Life is too short to make similarities/ influence a big deal.
To be fair, it's not like Tolkien invented everything in his books himself. He didn't just invent trolls or elves. He also uses our family name in his trilogy and when I use that name, I get always asked if I'm a Lord of the Ring fan. It doesn't bother me at all, it's quite flattering Would be interesting to see Elric not in a live action series, but an animated series. I think people would enjoy this.
Oh definitely not, he mainly popularized a lot of tropes in relation to fantasy races. Moorcock largely wrote the way he did as a reaction to Tolkien's fantasy writing. ^^
Tolkien is considered the father of fantasy (or at least modern fantasy) because he was inspired by existing folklore to write his own. Prior to that most of what was considered fantasy was either sci-fi, fairy tales designed for children (which the Hobbit was originally intended as), or stuff based entirely on existing legends such as King Arthur. He was the first to take inspiration from various legends, myths, and folklore and create a tale that was told as if it was truth and he was the first to create elaborate maps and languages to go along with it. He took ideas that were hundreds or thousands of years old and made them his own with a new story and folklore and then nearly everyone after based their stuff off his. This is why he is considered original.
Manny Brum but of course; lest we forget, as Tolkien is the father of fantasy, R.E. Howard would be the Grandfather of it. 🗡 🍻 And yes, I have no doubt I’ll hear, again, that Tolkien started writing things down on whatever held ink during the war and etc etc etc.... but, I’m talking publication. Actually out there in the world for any to see and read. It’s not an insult on Tolkien in any way.
I just wanted to take a minute to thank you. Your video's on the Witcher inspired me to read the books. I'm someone who didn't really read that much at all but I enjoyed the Witcher books so much I went on looking for more and more to read. I now have a good collection of fantasy series's going and have discovered authors like Brandon Sanderson ,Patrick rothfuss and Neil Gaiman . I've had so much enjoyment over the last couple of years reading these books and again just want to thank you as it was you that put me on this path. Maybe I'll look into Elric next once I've finished way of kings.
This was really terrific. I played a role playing game called Styormbringer based on Elric in college in the 80s. Terrific fun.....Publisher was Chaosium....I also recall a reference I heard to the sword stormbringer beiung Moorecock's allegory for alchoholism, which is inline with your reference to the evil sword making Elric stronger but at the cost of his friends and ultimatrely his life. This was a really great detailed comparison. Well done.
I'm an Elric fan. The closest I've gotten to the Witcher, so far, has been a couple episodes of the Netflix series. Many scholars have stated that all post Tolkien fantasy literature has to deal with the shadow cast by Lord of the Rings, either through imitation, subversion or rejection. As far as influence goes I think it's great that there's a fantasy series that sits, instead of LOTR, so clearly sits in the shadow of Elric. Dealing with the shadow by (according to your analysis) using similar architecture, but emphasizing human rather than cosmic themes (Imitation/Subversion). As a fan of Elric and hopefully a future fan of the Witcher, I think the most fun thing to do as a fan is to simply fold the Witcher into the idea of the Eternal Champion, which like the ideas of Joe Campbell, can be applied to almost any story. Loved the video.
@korrok Not really? He just didn't like Tolkien and his work, Elric on the other hand (and pretty much anything Moorcock has written) is further from Tolkien as it can be.
I've had the good fortune to edit and publish a brand new Elric story, so I can say from personal experience that Mike is as wonderful a person as you could hope for.
it's because of the Witcher popularity, Elric of Melnibone is going to be stuck in development hell because Witcher comparisons. No joke. Amazon was suppose to do said series, but that isn't going to happen
That doesnt make any sense, if the witcher got popular that means more room to "similar" series, like what happened after the walking dead, got or vikings
@jocaguz18 Were you not referring to the author of Lord of the Rings? If so, then saying someone can’t read although you spelled his name wrong seems off to me, personally.
Well yeah, Moorcock wrote that song. He also did two albums for Hawkwind(Warrior on the Edge of Time, and Chronicle of the Black Sword). He wrote three songs for BOC(Black Blade, Veteran of the Psychic Wars, and Great Sun Jester).
@@malcomalexander9437 Sweet! You have done your homework! Your Video shows someone WAY too young to have even ever heard of the Oyster Boys! Note my Kanda' Jalen Eirsie name! (based on Corum Jhaelen Irsei) - I got heavily into D&D in the late 1970's. I was a Moorcock and (original) BOC fan since the late 70's. I met the man once, in the early 80's, in a bookstore somewhere in England, or possibly Germany. Don't remember now. Nightwing? Was that the band? I was a BIG Pink Floyd Fan then, and I went to a few Concerts back in those days, including the Dortmund(?) The Wall concert. Those days are a bit hazy now. But I DO remember meeting Moorcock back then in a Bookstore....
I speak spanish, and when I first read Elric's last name I pronounced in the correct form, because it's written like if it was spanish, but I thought it was pronounced in a diferent way, until years ago that I discover the truth. Also, after I read The Lord of the Rings, I started to pronounce the last ë in Erekosë, but I still haven't a clue about that particular.
I'm so glad that you made this video without all the hate and snobbish approach people like to compare Elric and Geralt (and anti-hero characters from other fantasy works) with in various comment sections and forums. It was informative, gripping, hilarious (a huge thumbs-up for your impersonations), and I didn't mind the length at all. Actually I could listen to you talking about this topic for hours upon hours. It's quite a shame that Elric doesn't get as much attention in my country as in the West, nor did he get in the 80's when ‘Elric of Melniboné’ was published here. The first time I met his name was through a cross-reference with Warcraft. According to Wowpedia, Frostmourne (Arthas' sword) was based on Stormbringer, and when I learnt that I was quite curious to find out who this Elric guy was and started reading the aforementioned book. That happened more than 10 years ago, and for numerous reasons I just couldn’t finish the saga. However, as I continued exploring more fantasy universes, Elric’s name came back from time to time in relation with other fantasy characters, plotlines, hell, even songs of my favorite bands. Then it turned out that my long-beloved Witcher series was also inspired by this saga (even though Sapkowski doesn’t admit it which is a bit shady of him), and your video was the final push for me to read the entire story. Now I feel like I’m destined to do so xD I don’t usually write comments, but as my favorite Witcher-lore youtuber I believe I definitely owe you one. Never stop being this awesome (and sorry for the long-ass wall of text) :)
As I said to another poster the "entire" story is really complicated, Elric is one incarnation of the Eternal Champion and sometimes the different incarnations meet. The other incarnations have their own world's and series of books and stories and Elric appears in some of them. You also need to read other series to get the big picture like how the Eternal Champion came to be. That said you can read just the Elric only stuff and enjoy it, I don't recall the crossovers being vital to be story but it's many years since I read them.
Elric has always been a truly fascinating character for me, and I can see how his character has had an influence on many other characters from other writers. I don't worry about how much the character of Geralt has drawn from Elric, because Sapkowski had enough creative talent to make Geralt a fully-drawn and unique person in his own right. As to the idea of bringing Elric to the screen, the idea both fascinates and frightens me: fascinating, because the character and his story is so compelling, and frightening because his story is so complex and would be hard to properly portray. . . . . oh, and I love your dramatic acting!
I recall Geralt assessing his appearance while standing opposite Dudu Biberveldt when he copied Geralt's form. "Is that what I look like? Damn." I don't think he meant it like Duke Nukem looking in a mirror: "Damn, I'm looking good." Quite the opposite. Opposite in two ways in fact. Disappointed rather than impressed and quickly over it rather than hung up on it. In conclusion Geralt didn't think himself handsome but wasn't overly bothered by it. Not a lot of need for mirrors in his profession. Even while Basilisk hunting. Congratulations on another superb video. I consider myself a Witcher lore aficionado and was not even ware of this.
I agree, it's supposed to be something like "Damn, I'm ugly". It certainly is in Czech translation and considering Czech and Polish languages are quite similar, I doubt there was any change in that sentence.
@@dr.sinner7945 last translation I saw had it read something like "what an ugly grin I have," and it implied to me that he was sneering, negative expressions like that are often refered to as "ugly" not in a measure of the individuals attractiveness but in a sort of "it's menacing" way
but but... how does he shave if he doesn't use a mirror considering his always clean shaven. also ur brain makes u see yourself way more prettier than u are so maybe he was like damn thats how i ACTUALLY look like?
@@rabbitwithagun7171 Yeah, maybe seeing his face on somebody else let's his psychology accept that he is ugly. Also, he's a witcher, of course he can shave without a mirror. Or he just goes to the barber.
The similarities are not really that surprising. The Witcher stories are in many ways a riff off alot of ideas and stories. They are not a ripoff but a riffing from these stories. Sapkowski uses alot of well known western fairy tales such as snow white and beauty and the beast and does original things with them. The same holds true for elements of slavic folklore that I am familiar with. He remixes ideas, themes, tropes etc. into a compelling narrative of his own. In the same way Tolkein didn't invent elves and dwarves but gave them his own spin. Harry Potter was not the first story of a wizard school etc. Part of the appeal of alot of fantasy is the remixing of familar ideas. Taking a common touch point in a new direction. Some writers are better at it than others, and Sapkowski is occasionally more obvious but definitely enjoyable and interesting.
I said some, I also noted he does the same for other folklore/fairy tale traditions too. Snow white in its currently most well known version is german. However it may also has some connection to ancient greek literature. Tracing a traditional story back is tricky and never precise, but it is pretty obvious that some of Sapkowski's inspirational sources may be the grimm brother versions of the tales.
@@adrianwebster6923 You know nothing. There's no ancient Greek literature - it's invented, plagiarized. Btw, all of these are metaphysical stories about creation, with a little bit of new elements.
I've read both, and never thought Geralt was much of an Elric clone for one reason: salty and brooding as he is, in the end Geralt is one of the good guys, and Elric is definitely not. Also, team Pancakes.
Also, I wish I had sources for this but there are plenty of examples of Micheal Moorecock being just as much of grouchy jerk as Sapowski. "Epic Poohs", an essay where he just rants about how bad of a writer Tolkien, the major reason he had a job,is for example.
@@breandan3280 ahh yes the Epic Pooh ughh the worst piece of garbage of literary criticism I've ever read, Moorcock seemed to have been rather salty in it :) and his arguments were poor to put it delicately and mostly boiled down to 'he didn't write it this way I want' (one thing to note I love Tolkien's works and definitely enjoyed his style) and it seems some writers like to say how they hate Tolkien to show how edgy they are, personally I must say I've never really cared for Elric as a character, Moorcock also at times seemed pretentious in his writing to me, Sapkowski's writing no doubt makes the witcher separate and different enough that any accuasations of plagiarism (since I've heard some ;)) are way overplayed (in the same way we can say that Elric is plagiarising Witch-king of Angmar :) hehe, what? Both are sorcerers and warriors and rulers, from a corrupt and decadent culture, all points to that Witch-king comes from...island culture/civilization of Numenor, hmmm does that sound familiar? :) Hell the two even look the same ;) "Where is the pale king?' he asked wildly. "/"There were five tall figures: two standing on the lip of the dell, three advancing. In their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes...; in their haggard hands were swords of steel.... Desperate, he drew his own sword, and it seemed to him that it flickered red, as if it was a firebrand. Two of the figures halted. The third was taller than the others: his hair was long and gleaming and on his helm was a crown. In one hand he held a long sword, and in the other a knife; both the knife and the hand that held it glowed with a pale light. He sprang forward and bore down on Frodo." Hehehe sorry couldn't resist, but the two Witch-king and Elric do seem very uncanny similar in many ways :)). Sapkowski has penchant for witty dialogues and humor, Moorcock seems more like edgy, byronic. Sapkowski weaves more of a cynical outlook into his work, crude and vulgar mixed with metaphysical musings of destiny etc. some good humor in Sapkowski. Moorcock in the end also used inspiration of Kelvala (Tolkien as well used it for Turin Turambar character, even a black sword finds it's way here).
@Hammerin' Hank read them all more then once. Elric is not, by any means, a "good guy". Just because he was the last one standing after fighting the Lords of Chaos, doesn't make him good. He also killed all of his friends. Moorecock himself in an interview with Inquest magazine described Elric as a "psychopath". Elric spent most of the series as a willing servant of Chaos, destroyed his homeland pretty much for pretty revenge, and has a history of generally not being a great person.
@Hammerin' Hank You're seriously trolling if you think Moorecock is more talented than Tolkien. One is the grandfather of the genre, who's masterwork is called one of the best loved pieces of fiction in any genre, the other is (sadly, in my opinion because Moorecock IS good writer) barely remembered and when he is, it's in comparison to Sapowski.
Things we owe to Mr. Moorcock, the D&D multiverse/planescape with the elemental planes etc, Chaos and Law and the Chaos star (he created it), GRIMDARK in general, awesome rock/metal, unique cosmology compared to other high fantasy writers such as Tolkien (his creation was a mix of judaiochristian mythology and the poetic Edda), anti heroes with deep philosophical paths, Black Dragons, the whole idea of a structured multiverse, even Dr Who draws inspiration from Moorcock, Warhammer/40K, its creators said it "blame Michael Moorcock", the Targaryens are basically the Melniboneans, Anomander Rake of the Malazan books is direct homage/rip off (depends on how one sees it) and the list goes on, of course the Witcher universe is influenced, even the moniker "The White Wolf" is obvious enough to take you there.
I'll never forget this moment: "Elric looked up at Dyvim Tvar. 'Would you and your men leave me alone for a few moments?' 'Of course.' Dyvim Tvar led his men away and shut the door behind him. Arioch stood leaning against the same door. Again he had assumed the shape and poise of a handsome youth. His smile was friendly and open and only the ancient eyes belied his appearance." You know you are really screwed when a Lord of Chaos speaks to you in private. Of course, Geralt had his own G.O.D. er, Gaunter O'Dimm
Thank you. As a Michael Moorcock fan since 1979 I could not agree more with your in depth analyst of both these amazing fantasy heroes. Tolkien and R. E. Howard were my first introduction into fantasy in the late 70's when I was about 10 years old. Then on an off chance seeing an old paper back book with the words emblazoned "Elric of Melnibone" at a local book store I took a chance and discovered a true gem of a tale. The Tolkien influence is subtle in Moorcock's writing but there is no doubt at all he took inspiration from it. But like many great writers of the past the tales and heroes may be the same, as archetypes, but it is the telling of the story that differs. We are fans because these amazing tellers of tales inspire us to imagine such horrifying and imaginative worlds. Whether walking a long dusty road leading into the Shire, or wading through the white frigid steppes of Northern Hyboria, or even standing before the ruby throne of the pale king as the white wolf stands in sullen judgement. We love our tales and the writers who transport us there. Do they at times take a little liberty in the content of some of these stories and characters? Yes. But again I would say though the story is all the same, it is the telling of the tale that differs. They all draw from the same well of inspiration that the late author Joseph Campbell coined "the hero's journey". Religions were created from such works in the past and in turn have allowed creators to adjust and change certain traits in their characters. But in the end they all have an underlying inheritance to one another. Achilles, Samson, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, Aragorn, Conan, Elric, and Geralt all have a shared lineage. An ideology of the perfect yet flawed hero, one who may struggle with his destiny, but in the end achieves it to his greatest victory, or loss. Despite their greatness they show the small frailties of our own humanity. And in the end reflect our best virtues. I had just heard within the past few years of Geralt. And I can't lie at first glance immediately thought of Elric. I saw the netflix series and was entertained by it and recognized the many influences of the past heroes I have come to know in reading their stories. Seeing as how the Witcher has inspired its own fan-base I can't help but congratulate its writer. The more people who discover this amazing Genre of Fantasy the better. In this new age of technology it is a wonder that we turn to the past to discover such fascinating stories and heroes yet to be discovered and created. Regardless if they are all made from the same cloth. Thank you again for your honest assessment of these two incredible characters and the vast rich history that birthed them.
I like Geralt for what he is, but he doesn't really have a patch on Elric on any level. He's a great character, but Elric is an eternal champion and his stories operate on an almost entirely different power level. Blood and souls! Blood and souls! Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!
@@Viroh Alternatively, it's like saying I enjoy one character more than another because of the scale and breadth of their stories among other things. The other guy is entitled to his (bad) opinion, this is just very poor comprehension in general. Concepts flow from the preceding. The entire premise was based on what /I/ like. It's literally the second word.
@@Viroh Okay reading comprehension test. Which of these weren't objectively true in relation to "I like". Hint, I'm not going through each sentence, they are all objectively truly my opinion. But even if that weren't the case, it's still a pretty questionable comeback since all except calling Geralt "a great character" are actually, objectively true. Elric was indeed one of the incarnations of the Eternal Champion in Moorcock's universe. Elric, the pale prince of ruin, last emperor of Melnibone, tends to do larger nation-state war size plots more often (although as short fiction there are smaller scale encounters as well), and is typically more of a higher fantasy than low magic setting.
People read both. And the fact that Sapkowski took advantage of the ideas of other writers a little is wrong? Even Tolkien did it. Most good writers use other writers' good ideas, adding their own ideas. Only poor creators keep reinventing the wheel. As for Sapkowski, he is what he is. He is actually a good man, though a bastard :) Something like Geralt sometimes, right? :) In Polish interviews he often mentioned that, unlike ordinary Polish people, he had the opportunity to learn about the works of dozens of writers from around the world, which was then unavailable to Poles. The witcher began writing for his son. He probably didn't even dream about the success that came a few years later. In recent years, especially after the death of his son, he has changed. Softened. He got along with CDPR. As far as I know, he has mentioned many English-speaking writers. From what I remember, he had a particularly high esteem for Ursula LeGuin. Sorry for the bad English :) It's a google translator :).
What's great about Sapkowski is he didn't reinvent the wheel but mixed LotR, slav pagan stories and fairy tales and added dark/ funny twists. Sprinkled with his economist/ corporate experience. He also added 200 pages of in-detail battle descriptions, I guess after reading a "14'th century battle strategy" book or something.
(sorry for my english... I speak french :-) Today I discovered the existence of Proper Bird through this wonderful analysis of Elric's universe. This character has been part of my life since 1989. I know him, as well as the universe of the Eternal Champions, in depth (Hawkmoon, etc.). I must also say that I love the universe of Geralt too. Even if the subject of comparaison is not new, it has not been done well very often. I must admit that this video shows a very articulate woman, well thought out and who masters her subject well. Proper Bird did her homework very well before making this video. For that, I congratulate her. For this reason, I decided to explore her Twich channel as well and I watched other RUclips videos. I can say that the more I listen to Proper Bird, the more I appreciate the maturity of her words and the intelligence she exudes. Well done to you, Proper Bird ... and thank you for providing us with smart entertainment. You have a new fan :-)
I read the Witcher this year and Elric some 3 years ago and I didn't even notice that there were similarities before reading the title of the video, and in my head they feel like very different books.
yea, I’ve only partially read the witcher series and I haven’t read elric at all, but from what I gather, the Elric series seems a lot more high fantasy and D&D like, where magic is very normal in the universe and used regularly. Whereas in the witcher it’s more of a low fantasy, it’s set in more of a historically accurate medieval setting, and magic, although abundant, isn’t used regularly by most people, in fact, a lot of regular folk are against its use and avoid it. That difference alone makes these two series completely different to me, because they’re practically two different genres.
Yo, Jinzee! Found my way back to this video... again. I gotta say thanks for introducing me to Elric! I'm totally loving his saga. As much as I will always love your Witcher content first and foremost, I certainly wouldn't hate some more Elric content! A quick search shows no one else is really doing any quality Elric content, and that's a shame!
Moorcock said he wanted to create a complete antithesis of the classic swords and sorcery hero. Instead of the burly barbarian who hates magic, saves his homeland, kills wizards and saves the maiden; he gives us Elric, a weakling wizard, who destroys his homeland, kills his woman and lays waste to barbarians. As for the similarities between Geralt and Elric, they can be marked as common tropes of swords and sorcery-everybody uses and abuses them.
There are far too many similarities between Elric and Geralt that it is borderline plagiarism. Who really does it best, breaking it down, is Razorfist. Go see his video which is over 1 hour long describing how Geralt is a huge rip off of Elric. It's the most concise argument for his case
@@earlywhite7960 That's a horrible video full of, well quite blatant, biased viewpoints and poor comparison. I am not sure what Razorfist had against the witcher author, but I feel it might be personal and possibly include inappropriate touching.
@@vaguedreams I am guessing you didn't actually watch that video? Because like I said he broke down the history of each authors work and how you can see how one inspired the other. Even using samples from the audio books from each series. It is laughably plagiarism and as he said even mentions in the video if Sapkowski would just admit he lifted some ideas from Elric then he wouldn't be so upset over the issue.
@@earlywhite7960 Except he doesnt. Razorfist doesnt even know his so fanboyed over Elric otherwise he wouldnt have made the armor comparisons (as elric spends at best 5% of his time in anything other than robes, spiky edgelord plate armor/relatively over the top breastplate with regular armor and leg protection and either said spiky edgelord plate pants OR a colourful conan skirt while going shirtless), he wouldnt have fucked up 1/18 different tribal icons on models and ICON OF A SALAMANDER (because thats what salamandas actual icon is, a google is enough) with the damn sign of chaos. He wouldnt confuse paltry cantrips with GOD DAMNS SUMMONING OF NEAR DEMIGOD ELEMENTALS. He would know that despite looking cool Elric didnt use Glagoljica for its runes. Killing a snow white reference =/= complex cousin incest murder triangle (well more like pentagon if you include mournblade and stormbringer). Or worst of all, comparing Moonglum to Dandy bardpants despite him sharing more actual similarities to Geralt while Wheldrake exist as the bard comparison (it still doesnt hold, but at least it would be a argument one could argue over instead of flat out asspull). Oh or shall we talk about how he as a idiot completely skimmed over the biggest actual similarity (Conjunction of Spheres) which is actually the D&D-ified bastardization of the full conjunction of a million spheres from elric to be used as a world model based on the fact that moorcock was a fan of D&D and openly wanted his setting to be used before ip lawyerfuckering screwed it over?
@@ANDELE3025 Again I refer to the fact Razor used comparisons based on the dialogue from the audio books. Also my friend he points out that Sapkowski was a polish translator for fantasy literature in the 80s. He translated Elric of Melnibone in 1985 which was the same year he wrote his first Witcher story (Also Sapkowski lists Elric in his novel of Fantasy Canons). Moorcock openly admits he has gotten influence from other sources and as Razor points out the difference between inspiration/homage and plagiarism is attribution. Sapkowski refuses to acknowledge he has lifted ideas from Moorcock (even though his character is also called The White Wolf).
I'm gonna be 40 come this April and when I was in my late teens early 20s, I read all of the Moorcock-Elric books and loved them. Personally, I don’t see Garalt as a copy character at all. The only thing that's similar are the looks. Everything else is quite different.
I’m really happy to hear someone talking about Elric he is so awesome and the books are amazing all of them. I would highly recommend reading all the eternal champion books by Micheal moorcock
Jinzee, you genuinely made me fall in love with the series and i am honestly grateful for that, thank you for continuing series like these, or just a deep dive into the lore itself. Honestly after watching your lor videos i either want to go back to the older games or even start the book series ! Regardless i hope you've been well and again, thank you always for what you do and keep up the amazing work : )
This was a fantastic video. I didn't even know of Elric until I was talking to may Dad one day about Geralt and the whole Witcher series. He said "oh, he's kind of like Elric" he then told me about him and his books. I never even realized that my Dad even had a framed picture of Elric in his bedroom! Definitely want to read more Elric stuff someday. Still a diehard Witcher fan as well. Team pancakes!!
I had honestly never heard of Elric of Melnibone before this video, and you went about things thoroughly and as concisely as one could without leaving out important information. Definitely earned my sub.
Sure Geralt is similar to Elric, I wouldn’t even be surprised if Sapkowski was the one who translated Elric’s stories into Polish and that’s where he got the inspiration, but like you said, they exist in very different ways. Elric constantly handles world ending and universe altering tasks and is so vastly different to a normal Human of our world. Whereas Geralt is just a modified Human who will literally go get your frying pan if the price is right. I’d be willing to bet that if Geralt was given a soul sucking sword to completely obliterate someone from existence, he’d probably try to destroy it seeing as he has family and friends he really cares about. Oh and pancakes every time.
Wrong info mate. The translators of Elric saga into Polish were: Radosław Kot, Andrzej Rosanoff, Justyna Zanberg and Sławomir Janicki. I know why you think he translated that .Please do some research after listening to some stupid RUclipsrs. RUclipsrs are not reliable sources
Moorcock's Elric was amazing as was his other Enternal Champion Corum. I read all of his books that I could back in the eighties and just now finishing the last book of the Witcher series, and I am having a hard time finding any similarity of the two.
Hawkmoon, Erekosë, Oswald Bastable, the Grafs von Bek, the Dancers at the End of Time. Moorcock has so many good characters (but Corum Jharel Israe is definitely up there).
@@itmademesignup9508 Uhuh... just an aside, Goldfish attention span is actually high, as is their memory. Of course, that particular myth was pretty much made up by people with zero knowledge of Fish Biology. It has been disproven multiple times, I even have many of the papers.
I think there are some misunderstandings about the Elric Saga. The nature of the story is about Elric's personal journey not the grand quest. The layered and psychedelic nature of Elric can be confusing and feel incomplete without reading the whole saga. I also don't feel that you were clear on the subject of Law and Chaos.
I remember that in one of the Corum books a woman from another "universe" calls Corum, who has pointy ears too, an Elf. It read like a reference to our "real" world.
I love that you started with the poem from Fortress of the Pearl, I think it encapsulates the themes and overarching elements of Elric saga perfectly. Also I find the comparison between Elric and Geralt skin deep. In reality, the thematic positioning is way different on both. Geralt is much more of an instrument of "blue collar perspective" and analogies for elitism against people who do "undesirable jobs". Elric read much more like a Greek Tragedy, it is clear in the prose the unraveling of Elric, his relationship with Arioch, and the predestined path that he is pushed through, often unwillingly and melancholically. Ruminations of Geralt are much more jaded and detached by comparison, often looking at the society from beside itself, and often as a defense mechanism of Geralt; Sapkowski uses Geralt as a lens to explore that alienated society. The alienation of Elric is much more internal, prophetic, and ultimately, self destructive. All this regarding Elric is of course about the main Elric timeline, if we get into the the Multiverse, the Eternal Champion and others, it quickly becomes soup.
I can sort of understand Sapkowski’s bitterness, the times he lived in. It wasn’t that he hated the games, he just didn’t understand video games in general. In his day video games may have been different what with the Iron Curtain and all that. Pop culture took its time, and the potential for storytelling in games eluded him. I guess to him games were stuff like snakes and ladders or pac man or donkey kong? From what I see in his recent interviews he seems alright, not bitter, well not more than most his age.
I don't doubt he was also somewhat disillusioned with games after the first Witcher game just didn't go anywhere. I'm still somewhat hopeful he might ever co-operate with CDPR on any future Witcher games.
Sapkowski is a "typical polish" as we often call it in Poland. He underestimated how powerful game industry is and then went sour when he realized how much money he could have made otherwise. He also claimed to be Tolkien of our times...
@@Fer-ev3jo Well, all of the jokes about Polish people I was subjected to as a child, did seem to suggest they are not a people overly prone to deep contemplation.
Thank you! For giving your opinion of both series without ragging on one or the other. They are both excellent reads. I've read all the Elric books and now all of the Witcher books. I love both series. Geralt is obviously influenced by Elric. Tolkien actually commented on writers influencing each other and that it was a perfectly normal thing to borrow from the "cosmic stew" of ideas. Although I could tell Geralt was influenced by Elric, I never would have thought him an outright clone. And I totally agree that Geralt's stories are much more intimate. Your video was very entertaining. Love the acting out of the two characters talking to each other! -- And we won't bring up Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2: the Golden Army. Eh hmm....
This is my very first video of yours that I watch and I can't begin to tell you how much I have enjoyed it. It was an hour long and to be honest, I didn't even notice and was sad when it ended. You actually made me LOL on several occasions! I would also like to say that as both and Elric and a Geralt fan, who is currently my #1 book boyfriend (and has been for a while), I agree with you on everything that you said. You have a brand new fan. Also, even tho I'm a French toast kinda girl, Imma give my vote to waffles. 🤷♀️
I've read some of the Elric books, and played all the Witcher games but not read any of the books (and FWIW I feel more affinity for Elric). I think you make a convincing case that Elric was an important influence on Geralt and Geralt's setting, but frankly until now I had never thought to compare them. They both have white hair and fight with swords, sure, but otherwise it felt like apples and oranges. Elric is the highest form of high fantasy, whereas Witcher's whole point seems to be to portray a working-class hero in a low fantasy world (which made the White Frost plot seem rather incongruous to me). Having watched your video now, though, I have to agree that the two have more in common than I suspected.
The games are rather interesting because they aren't a full on adaptation of the books, they are a sequel to the books. A non canon sequel as the author doesn't consider them canon.
If you are looking for a Dandelion analogue, I would suggest peering at Jhary-a-Conel, companion to Corum Jhaelen Irsei, another version of the Eternal Champion from the Knight / Queen / King of the Swords trilogy.
Jinzee I admit that I had asked you from time to time to cover the Elric series and you were always positive in your comments but at the time, also non-committal as to when you might. Fast forward to today, I got the RUclips notification that this video dropped. A HAPPY DANCE ENSUED!! This is a great introduction to Elric for those unfamiliar with Moorcocks writings and there is plenty of room for both Elric and Geralt to co-exist. Thank you SO MUCH for this video Jinzee.
Here you are back at it again with some fantastic content that you clearly worked extremely hard on, I need more of this in my life!!! Edit: you always have the best Witcher t-shirts, I'm envious🙄
Great video!!!! I have many, many Michael Moorcock books and have read them many times; Elric the most. There was a web site for Moorcock fans where Mike would answer your questions and write to the fans (really cool guy). He always said that he came from a time when writers and artists shared ideas so it never bothered him when other people's projects were heavily influenced by his works. He himself was heavily influenced by Edgar Rice Burroughs and he even created a character, Michael Kane of Mars, which was his own version of John Carter. Elric himself was created because a publisher wanted a Conan style of story.
OK, the elf thing, there is a connection. The Melnibonians are one of a group of related races in MM's oeuvre, including the Eldren and the Vadhagh. The Eternal Champion avatar Corum, is a Vadhagh, and the Vadhagh are connected to the 'Proto-Celts', with the Celts being culturally influenced by the Vadhagh (in universe). Another race related to the Vadhagh and the Melnibonians are the Sidhe - the Sidhe are both a race in Moorcock's cannon and also the 'Fair Folk' of Irish mythology, the Irish version of the Alfr of the Anglo-Saxons and Norse. So, at a few removes, the Melnibonians are indeed 'Elves'. The Anglo-Norse Elves were once considered, like the Sidhe, as being human-sized and powerful magical beings. This was shown in the many 'Aelf names', Aelfred (elf-counsel), Aelfhelm (obvious), Aelfgar (elf spear) and of course, Aelfric (elf ruler), ring any bells? Elric is a version of Aelfric, so not only is Elric an Elf, his name proclaims him the 'Elf-king'.
A couple of things. Yes, watched to the very end. Elves, Dwarves and the like are not the property of nor the creation of Tolkien. They existed in mythology long before Tolkien existed. His books simply made the concept of them more relatable as people. Tolkien breached the barrier of the fantasy author as a respectable concept for an adult to pursue. He loved his world and sought to teach others his languages and lore as if they were real. That's inspiring. The concept of Elric as a person tied to a sentient blade, rising and falling into tragedy is fantastic in every sense. The very concepts of Law, Chaos and Neutrality as gods influenced the works of Gary Gygax. The cover artwork for the books was breathtaking. My favorite contribution made by the Witcher series was the concept of truly binding the lore of a creature to it's defeat. It meant that monsters were not simply a matter of enough blades or bullets to end them. You needed the right item, timing and tactic. This made the monsters more compelling. The Witcher, oddly, made his world more believable by guiding the reader/viewer through his experiences. It's as if Moorcock behaved more like the Witcher and Sapkowski acted like Elric. The author of Elric, as a person, wants to engage the public and share the experience, whereas the author of the Witcher is more self-centred and bitter. Ironic.
Holy shit, girl! The algorithm just brought your channel to me and thank gods for it! Your content, editing, humor, everything is on point and I can see you doing great things! (Not to come off like a weirdo, I just haven’t seen content of this quality in a long time.) Anyway, I’m subbed and will probably spend the rest of my day catching up on your channel. Thanks for what you do!
Fascinating deep-dive - thanks. I was an avid Moorcock fan in my teens - late 60s/early 70s - when I also discovered Tolkien, my all-time favourite fantasy writer. Although the Professor seems to have kick-started the modern fantasy era, we mustn't forget writers like Lord Dunsany and William Morris who wrote some wonderful tales much earlier. And then there's the folklore roots so rich in Tolkien and the Witcher world. In fact, Slavic folklore felt strong ehen I discovered the Witcher 3 game and read the books in my 60s - yes, I'm an oldie gamer. Strangely enough, untilI watched your video, I hadn't made the Elric connections as it's been almost five decades since I encountered that earlier white-haired lad. Time to revisit?
Elric was very much a creation of his time - part of the post 50s explosion of creativity that was a natural result of its having been repressed after decades of depression and war around the world. Geralt was born behind the Iron Curtain, under the bootheel of soviet oppression. Just as with Law and Chaos, neither scenario is better or worse than the other, just different sides of the same coin. I've read both, and am a fan of both. Honestly, it hadn't occurred to me to compare them, other than noting the obvious similarities. Great video!
I use the concept of The Eternal Champion and the multiverse as a meta way to explain why I always play the same character in nearly every rpg with character creation.
The Elric books were my third fantasy series I ever read right after Hobbit/Lord of the Rings and Narnia. Man what a culture shock that was. That said it's set me up the whole time to see all the works that came after that were inspired by it. That all said I never really considered Elric and the Witcher beyond a superficial level. This video was really great. That said two of my favorite Elric inspired worked is Castlevania's Alucard and Full Metal Alchemist, especially the first series which might as well be canon to Moorcock's Multiverse.
You missed Corum as one of the incarnations of Eurecose, though there is a picture of him at 11:03, the guy in red with the silver hand, and what looks like a eye patch but is actually a magic eye (If I remember correctly I last read the Corum books around 1985)
Great use of the Titan Comics Elric adaptation for reference! It's such a great adaptation of Elric that Moorcock approved of the changes in the comic and wishes he made those changes now.
Funny enough I've also heard that Warhammer borrowed directly from Moorecock when making some of their lore like the symbol of chaos and chaos existing in a similar way
It is heavily implied that Geralt is somewhat ugly. Possibly his scars make them so. I maybe read one or two Elric saga books but they never "caught" me really. Not that they are uninteresting but the flow of them didn't really. I also read Sapkowskis work much earlier in original which is many times hilarious because of word play which may/may not be lost in translation from Polish. I am definately more aquiainted with Comic book Elric though. And have slightly better memories of that. Btw. There are few Witcher comic books as well which are pretty good but in these instances I feel the books is my preference.
There are quite a few 1960s/70s fantasy stories that I term "tripping fantasy" - because the stories have really good ideas at times but they are all over the place in terms of coherent story because the author was probably high as a kite. Elric is a prime example. I do not think Geralt is ugly as such, although his appeal to most women seems to be his distinctive appearance - including his many scars - and that Witchers are known for their stamina, their immunity to disease and their sterility. You do not meet too many other Witchers in the stories but you do get the sense that even the most ugly ones have a certain appeal due to their Witcher traits.
Interesting! What if Elric is Eridin. Imagine a story about Eredin's journey to his current position as the Kind of the Wild Hunt. To the point his story intertwined with Geralt's.
This was my first video I have seen of yours. It was excellent. The humor is spot on and actually made me chuckle out loud. Also, your objective view of both of these series was very good. Thank you for this. I will be watching more.
I tried and tried again to read the Elric series back in the day. I never could get very far because the very fragmented way it was written worked against it for me. I have, however, read the Witcher series all the way through. As an overarching series, the Witcher's storytelling just holds together much better for me. However, Elric's series is an important cornerstone of fantasy writing. It is one of the building blocks that more modern heroic fantasy, such as The Witcher, is built upon.
Melnibonéans are the originators of a lot of dark elf tropes, particular the Dark Elves/Eldar from the Warhammer franchises, so I can see why people would think of Elric as being elven.
Honestly i think the conjunction of the spheres is, with everything else that is similar, is sort ot the smoking gun here. I wouldnt care if sapkowski actually credited moorcock but he simply doesn't.
O lol I had this issue of Fantastyka when I was a teenager! My mum had her short story published in Fantastyka too, so obviously I was a big fan of this magazine and Andrzej Sapkowski obviously. It is so amazing that you digged it out 🤘 respect.
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I am pleased to announce that the pancakes are winning this battle of the foods! And no, french toast doesn't count as a vote for either party. >: ( (but I won't say no if you're making, just saying)
What about Finnish Pancakes, in particular? They are quite their own thing, if you were not aware.
@@trexpaddock They look like thicker British pancakes, ingredients are similar too.
@@Krytern
Quite the opposite, they are much thinner.
(More similar that the ingredients of pancakes vs. waffles?) ;)
Proper Bird waffles ftw!
Wonder if Miss Bird would want to talk about the Shadow Batman Plagiarism debate...who knows?
Geralt: You play Gwent?
Elric: Silently nods.
"Gwent music starts playing"
Elric would probably urinate on the pale copy of himself that is geralt. Piss poor at that.
Then Stormbringer merely scratches Gwent, Gwent’s soul is sucked out and sent straight to chaos/h!ll (no saving throw blotches!), Elric gets the crazy level up/health boost, and the Gwent “music” ends
You expected an agent of Chaos like Elric to have his story written in chronological order???
Or in the same universe?
YEAH...there are 2 novels....
@@mykelengieza7057 6 isnt there?
"Farewell, friend. I was a thousand times more evil than thou!" -- Stormbringer
What the hell is a "dinner pancake"?
@@jamescorbin3453 French toast is waaayyy better
I was 16 when I read that. Man I was totally broken and devastated afterwards. What a dreary, dark, frustrating, sinister, depressing book. Incredibly well written, but oh my god... I really hate the book now. It nearly pushed me into a depression.
@@W4ldgeist
He did die to bring our world into existence ......
I don't think Moorcock's writing is that good, but his ideas are.
Classic line.
Elric...Elric is the definition of high intelligence low wisdom.
I'm not so sure some of you have actually read any Elric stories
@@raulduke3237 I've read all of the main six books, and stand by my statement. Elric is well learned and book smart, especially in the matters of magic, but the man has no common sense whatsoever and made almost all of his own problems through horrible decisions.
@@azazelreeds I agree completely, many of the conflicts throughout the books are caused by him being simply uncontent.
@@azazelreeds I think that because Elric is still a Melnibonean, the race had always described as alien and extremely different from mankind both emotionally and mentally, the Melnibonean thinking are much closer to cats than humans with a terrifying callous nature, they were aristocratic, arrogant, decadent, sadistic and cruel and their reverence towards tradition what keeps their ruthlessness in check.
@@longwlenguyen4214 how hard is to describe them as arrogant and haughty ELVES?
Moorcock is a great writer and fantastic person. I once posted a question years and years ago on a fan forum about a potential Elric game and he responded and we traded a few emails. Turns our there was once a game planned but it didn't pan out. He lives in Texas now, not far outside Austin where I am.
Lol Lost Pines TX
he lives in paris too
I remember some screen shots or story board pics of the game. Too bad it never panned out….or maybe it’s best it never did.
Austinites UNITE!!
Nice to know Elric isn't totally forgotten. I hope a show is made about him
I wouldn't mind if they made a video game based on Elric.
I think an Elric show would be great animated.
They made a show. Started writing it a year after the Wither show came out. The producers, in a huge touch of irony, scrapped the show over fears it was too much like the Witcher.
@@robertporter6683
hahaha
damn ...
@@robertporter6683 For sure, considering the first time I saw the Witcher I thought that reminded me of Elric. I read the books back in the early 80's.
Elric is my favorite High Fantasy book series.
It's amazing.
Elric was def the pitch for Warhammer's Dark Elves.
And Dark Eldar from 40k
Michael Moorcock. Giving "high fantasy" new meaning since late 60s
@@ДокторЯдо Yup he even self aware of how the fantasy genre are becoming bland, shallow and generic when it brought to the wider audiences.
@@longwlenguyen4214
You're not wrong, but that's not what I meant
Michael Moorcock himself credits Poul Anderson's 'Three Hearts and Three Lions" (1953) as an inspiration in the forward to "Elric of Melniboné' (1972). In the book, the plane-hopping protagonist encounters a cruel and aloof elfin race called The Pharisees of Caer Sidi.
Later, in the Dungeons & Dragons Module Q1 'Queen of the Demonweb Pits' (1980), a magic portal can be found in Lolth's layer of the Abyss that leads directly to the literal Kingdom of Caer Sidi from 'Three Hearts and Three Lions', in a direct nod from Gary Gygax as to the inspiration for his own Drow Elves.
GW's Warhammer Druchii Elves (and, by extension, the Dark Eldar of 40k) are something of a Sci-Fantasy soup of other stories, and the whole Law vs Chaos alignment thing should be obvious.
And, if you read all this, be sure to check out the "Nemesis the Warlock' comic from '2000 A.D.' and compare it to Warhammer.
I feel without Moorcock and Elric i would never have grown up with The Legacy of Kain series.
Kain is so much like Elric. Powerful posessed sword. Speaks poetically and cryptically and is DEFINITELY not a hero and fights to change his and all vampires cruel fate and for Nosgoth
I hope Legacy of Kain Soul Reaver 1 would get a remaster this year
@Vae Victis their both still alive the elder god, Mobuis & Vorador voice actor's are 🪦
Lol, elric gerald and kain all feel like the same guy.
Any Hawkwind fans here?
If not their "Chronicles of the black sword" album is a concept around the Elric series
Hehe i have that cd still.
@@timelore25 Fantastic album! And theyre still going strong
And if that's not enough musical references for ya, there's a modern metal band simply called Eternal Champion. Three guesses where they got the idea for that name. :)
I really enjoy Magnu. It's not Elric related, but it sure is trippy.
I personally think that the team that is doing the castlevania Netflix series should do elric and witcher series because in my personal opinion they can do more with animation and stay true to source material. The current witcher on Netflix just reminds me of a grittier xena warrior princess
Holy moly that’s accurate.
They fucked up Castlevania so bad that you do not want to see how they will destroy Elric since season 1.
@@dontbothertoreply9755 Maybe Amazon would be doit better, they made great 'Legend of Vox Machina".
I heard about this one, very happy to hear someone who will actually talk about both series and not just hate on one of them. Thank you for this, I was always curious where all the hate is from.
@@NerdlySquared Agreed!
@@NerdlySquared I loved both shows as a kid too, and didn't understand wtf was wrong with people who insisted you could only like one or the other
I think the hate comes from the witchers creator not admitting to take inspiration from elric even though he translated the elric books to polish the very same year he seems to had written the draft for Witcher. If the mad at least admits he was inspired by elric there would be far less hate.
The hate is born of frustration. I have been thirsting for Elric content ever since reading the books in 1980. Then along comes this charlatan who rehashes played faerie tale tropes. Sapkowsky ripped off Moorcock while translating Moorcock's work.and has enjoyed more success for it. It is wrong, because The tale of Elric is far superior. He is a doomed emperor of a dying kingdom, weilding a sentient sword that drinks souls. Geralt is a monster hunter. OOOOO!!!! How deep.
That’s literally the first time I’ve heard Melniboné spoken out loud.
Well she did indeed pronounce it the Moorcock way...
...but Michael M also says, “Pronounce all these names any way you want.”
All that rage towards Sapkowski as a supposed plagiarist always bothered me, in part because I actually started reading Elric series based on Sapkowski's recommendation. He mentions Moorcock quite a bit in his fantasy compendium titled "Rękopis znaleziony w smoczej jaskini" ("Manusript Discovered in a Dragon's Cave") -- which is where the Canon of Fantasy Literature you mentioned comes from.
And by the way: "[...] he'll often mention polish folklore [...]"? You're sure about that? As far as I can tell, he keeps mentioning English-speaking fantasy authors, celtic mythology and, of course, Arthurian legend (he even published a book about it). As to slavic folklore, I mostly recall him mocking Polish fantasy writers that relied on it in a article from early 90' -- "Piróg albo Nie ma złota w Szarych Górach". Incidentally, I just found an English translation on reddit: "Piróg or there is no gold in Gray Mountains". So rejoice -- you can actually read some of Sapkowski's views on fantasy without learning Polish.
People who become outraged that fantasy writers lift ideas from other fantasy writers are the kind of people who think professional wrestling being staged is some sort of deep, dark secret. Everybody already knows, and people either see it as part of the fun or just don't care.
There is also a problem with some of the readers when it comes to the classic fantasy, like Elric, Conan or Fafhdr - it is certain arrogance directed to newer fans, who start their adventure with more modern heroes like Witcher, GoT or Malazan Book of the Fallen. Fantasy evolves, but also constantly reinvents some troupes - similarities are more or less inevitable and sometimes very much intended. You have to scratch under the surface to find out what is really new and if it is worth your reading. Personally I find creating Moorcock image as very original writer in comparison to Sapkowski missing all the added value that specific characters, their interactions, humor and quality of writing that are trademarks of AS style. Moorcock was solid adventure teller even in his Conan phase, while Sapkowski is first and foremost character and dialogue writer.
Oh, and I absolutely agree that polish folklore is almost non-existant in Witcher (books), especially compared to games, that literally use whole long parts of polish romantic literature classics of XIX century (Słowacki and Mickiewicz). On the other hand, many characters are very polish in terms of behavior, interactions, dillemas and such. The closest to that is mentioned in your video „Edge of the world” story with its peasants.
Well, Striga is from easter european folklore, story about dragon is directly mentioning a polish legend about killing a dragon from the Wawel Hill, there's a reference to a polish legend about a basilisk... There's a bit of polish folklore.
@@rarr2130 See, but the dragon is actually classic case where Sapkowski is using polish folklore just as a wink to the audience, "subverting their expectations". What is actually taken from polish folklore is peasant mob and its leader. In polish folklore he is a main hero of the story - smart boy that kills a beast. Here he is a primitive ridiculed by all the main characters - and the story is not about killing a dragon in the first place.
It is main thing with Sapkowski - he is not using slavic folklore tropes because he is very interested in them on their own.
Moorcock's blend of allegorical and pulpy storytelling in an almost poetic high language is a relic and a treasure we may never find again. Sapkowski's mélange of fables and chronicles of the everyman has an almost irrestible and paradoxical charm where high fantasy becomes approchable, current, immediate, without losing a touch of mystery. I love both.
If you want to read other Moorcock books his Oswald Bastable novels are the coolest uchronias out there.... with all kinds of references to real life historical figures.
Elric was emo before emo was even emo.
elric invented emo to be fair haha
Goethe created the original viral emo character: Young Werther. The way Werther dressed even became popular among the romantic suicide idolizing youths...
Ahem.
We Goths were there long before anybody in America came up with the term "Emo".
And the hippy metallers were there before us.
Moorcock was an intermittent member of Hawkwind, after all.
Chronicles of the Black Sword, and all that.
Goths existed before idiots even invented christ...
@@morbid1. You are clueless of the history of the Goths and Christianity. Go read a book or at least Wikipedia.
This was definitely the best "Elric vs. Geralt" videos that have been popping up lately. My stance aligns with yours. Witcher has similarities, sometimes quite blatant, but it's also very different in other areas. I definitely wouldn't call it plagiarism, but I wouldn't mind if Sapkowski acknowledged Moorcock as his literary influence. On the other hand, these "scandal" video about Geralt and Elric have given Moorcock some exposition, at least. You mentioned it in the video, Moorcock is probably getting less recognition nowadays than he should.
What makes me rather icky with Witcher haters are they really often use Elric series as the point of contentious & mockery to Witcher series, even though I can totally see some of this people likely never read Witcher books or even Elric books in the first place.
Meanwhile, one of the biggest most blatant so called "rip off" of Moorcock works is actually Warhammer/W40K franchise. Nobody even make a this petty "VS comparison" about it.
Yeah, you're right. But if I had to list all of the influences culture has had on me, the list could get impossibly long. Ultimately, there is nothing new under the sun. The Witcher is also deliberately derivative... he faces the Beast from Beauty in the Beast, for crying out loud. He's obviously been taking beats from everything from Moorcock to Disney to Kurasawa. I never thought of Geralt as a parody of Elric, but rather the edge lord character tropes that young male rpg nerds CONSTANTLY default to... oddly enough, probably inspired by Elric. But hey... the first question I would ask would be, "would Moorcock be upset by the Witcher?" He'd probably think he's rad.
Less recognition, Moorcock.
@@crozraven yep, they borrow more from Hawkmoon than Elric most folks dont go past Elric though.
Actually lower in the comments user @Mrtyugata pointed out that he did indeed acknowledged his love of Moorcock on several occasions.
Been reading Elric since the 70's as a kid, and loved most of Moorcock's work, along with the Elric stories (not forgetting Corum and Hawkmoon) - but I also loved The Witcher games and read the books as they were translated into English. Room for both imo, regardless of any similarities, they are both very enjoyable. Life is too short to make similarities/ influence a big deal.
So think Gerald and me.
The problem is that because of the Witcher franchise no one will touch Elric in the movie or the videogame industries citing the similarities.
@@agro23 Which is a crying shame. Or maybe not, as I'd hate to see Hollywood or Netflix make a cock-up of Elric. Or any of them for that matter!
@@agro23 I don't think Moorcock will allow anyone to use Elric in films or TV shows, that's why.
@@mattmale7183 Someone has the rights currently they just can't get any traction.
To be fair, it's not like Tolkien invented everything in his books himself. He didn't just invent trolls or elves. He also uses our family name in his trilogy and when I use that name, I get always asked if I'm a Lord of the Ring fan. It doesn't bother me at all, it's quite flattering
Would be interesting to see Elric not in a live action series, but an animated series. I think people would enjoy this.
Oh definitely not, he mainly popularized a lot of tropes in relation to fantasy races. Moorcock largely wrote the way he did as a reaction to Tolkien's fantasy writing. ^^
Tolkien is considered the father of fantasy (or at least modern fantasy) because he was inspired by existing folklore to write his own. Prior to that most of what was considered fantasy was either sci-fi, fairy tales designed for children (which the Hobbit was originally intended as), or stuff based entirely on existing legends such as King Arthur. He was the first to take inspiration from various legends, myths, and folklore and create a tale that was told as if it was truth and he was the first to create elaborate maps and languages to go along with it. He took ideas that were hundreds or thousands of years old and made them his own with a new story and folklore and then nearly everyone after based their stuff off his. This is why he is considered original.
Don't know when the first print was, but not many books compare to amount of detail as Tolkien books, lore about races and creatures.
Manny Brum but of course; lest we forget, as Tolkien is the father of fantasy, R.E. Howard would be the Grandfather of it. 🗡 🍻
And yes, I have no doubt I’ll hear, again, that Tolkien started writing things down on whatever held ink during the war and etc etc etc.... but, I’m talking publication. Actually out there in the world for any to see and read.
It’s not an insult on Tolkien in any way.
Hes probably come from some kind of dark elf from some mitology.
I just wanted to take a minute to thank you. Your video's on the Witcher inspired me to read the books. I'm someone who didn't really read that much at all but I enjoyed the Witcher books so much I went on looking for more and more to read. I now have a good collection of fantasy series's going and have discovered authors like Brandon Sanderson ,Patrick rothfuss and Neil Gaiman . I've had so much enjoyment over the last couple of years reading these books and again just want to thank you as it was you that put me on this path.
Maybe I'll look into Elric next once I've finished way of kings.
I'm very glad to hear you're enjoying reading so much!
This was really terrific. I played a role playing game called Styormbringer based on Elric in college in the 80s. Terrific fun.....Publisher was Chaosium....I also recall a reference I heard to the sword stormbringer beiung Moorecock's allegory for alchoholism, which is inline with your reference to the evil sword making Elric stronger but at the cost of his friends and ultimatrely his life. This was a really great detailed comparison. Well done.
I'm an Elric fan. The closest I've gotten to the Witcher, so far, has been a couple episodes of the Netflix series. Many scholars have stated that all post Tolkien fantasy literature has to deal with the shadow cast by Lord of the Rings, either through imitation, subversion or rejection. As far as influence goes I think it's great that there's a fantasy series that sits, instead of LOTR, so clearly sits in the shadow of Elric. Dealing with the shadow by (according to your analysis) using similar architecture, but emphasizing human rather than cosmic themes (Imitation/Subversion).
As a fan of Elric and hopefully a future fan of the Witcher, I think the most fun thing to do as a fan is to simply fold the Witcher into the idea of the Eternal Champion, which like the ideas of Joe Campbell, can be applied to almost any story.
Loved the video.
@korrok Not really? He just didn't like Tolkien and his work, Elric on the other hand (and pretty much anything Moorcock has written) is further from Tolkien as it can be.
I've had the good fortune to edit and publish a brand new Elric story, so I can say from personal experience that Mike is as wonderful a person as you could hope for.
Where can one find this story?
@@okolepuka808 I have no doubt the story in question is The Citadel of Forgotten Myths, since it's the most recent one, being published in 2022
it's because of the Witcher popularity, Elric of Melnibone is going to be stuck in development hell because Witcher comparisons. No joke. Amazon was suppose to do said series, but that isn't going to happen
Amazon should do it because of it
That doesnt make any sense, if the witcher got popular that means more room to "similar" series, like what happened after the walking dead, got or vikings
@@diegosotomiranda4107 Yeah but people will say that Elric copied the Witcher when it's really the other way around.
jocaguz18 by copy you mean do the opposite because that’s what moorcock did, and Tolkien was inspired by authors that cake before him.
@jocaguz18 Were you not referring to the author of Lord of the Rings? If so, then saying someone can’t read although you spelled his name wrong seems off to me, personally.
At LAST! Someone who pronounces Elric's last name CORRECTLY!
If you are into Elrik - Then you will just LOVE "Black Blade" by Blue Oyster Cult...
Well yeah, Moorcock wrote that song. He also did two albums for Hawkwind(Warrior on the Edge of Time, and Chronicle of the Black Sword). He wrote three songs for BOC(Black Blade, Veteran of the Psychic Wars, and Great Sun Jester).
@@malcomalexander9437 Sweet! You have done your homework! Your Video shows someone WAY too young to have even ever heard of the Oyster Boys! Note my Kanda' Jalen Eirsie name! (based on Corum Jhaelen Irsei) - I got heavily into D&D in the late 1970's. I was a Moorcock and (original) BOC fan since the late 70's. I met the man once, in the early 80's, in a bookstore somewhere in England, or possibly Germany. Don't remember now. Nightwing? Was that the band? I was a BIG Pink Floyd Fan then, and I went to a few Concerts back in those days, including the Dortmund(?) The Wall concert. Those days are a bit hazy now. But I DO remember meeting Moorcock back then in a Bookstore....
I speak spanish, and when I first read Elric's last name I pronounced in the correct form, because it's written like if it was spanish, but I thought it was pronounced in a diferent way, until years ago that I discover the truth.
Also, after I read The Lord of the Rings, I started to pronounce the last ë in Erekosë, but I still haven't a clue about that particular.
"Veteran of a thousand psychic wars" is a great one, too. Talking about inspired Elric songs by BÖC.
Try Black Pyramid's Stormbringer.
“Please don’t hurt me I have a child” 😂
Is that an epic npc man reference?
zeppelin budda no idea but got me going
Exactly... The only part that i understood from that video
"The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion"?
Holy crap. You read 7 books just to make this video! I have mad respect for you.
They're like 150 pages
I'm so glad that you made this video without all the hate and snobbish approach people like to compare Elric and Geralt (and anti-hero characters from other fantasy works) with in various comment sections and forums. It was informative, gripping, hilarious (a huge thumbs-up for your impersonations), and I didn't mind the length at all. Actually I could listen to you talking about this topic for hours upon hours.
It's quite a shame that Elric doesn't get as much attention in my country as in the West, nor did he get in the 80's when ‘Elric of Melniboné’ was published here. The first time I met his name was through a cross-reference with Warcraft. According to Wowpedia, Frostmourne (Arthas' sword) was based on Stormbringer, and when I learnt that I was quite curious to find out who this Elric guy was and started reading the aforementioned book. That happened more than 10 years ago, and for numerous reasons I just couldn’t finish the saga.
However, as I continued exploring more fantasy universes, Elric’s name came back from time to time in relation with other fantasy characters, plotlines, hell, even songs of my favorite bands. Then it turned out that my long-beloved Witcher series was also inspired by this saga (even though Sapkowski doesn’t admit it which is a bit shady of him), and your video was the final push for me to read the entire story.
Now I feel like I’m destined to do so xD
I don’t usually write comments, but as my favorite Witcher-lore youtuber I believe I definitely owe you one. Never stop being this awesome (and sorry for the long-ass wall of text) :)
As I said to another poster the "entire" story is really complicated, Elric is one incarnation of the Eternal Champion and sometimes the different incarnations meet. The other incarnations have their own world's and series of books and stories and Elric appears in some of them. You also need to read other series to get the big picture like how the Eternal Champion came to be.
That said you can read just the Elric only stuff and enjoy it, I don't recall the crossovers being vital to be story but it's many years since I read them.
Elric has always been a truly fascinating character for me, and I can see how his character has had an influence on many other characters from other writers.
I don't worry about how much the character of Geralt has drawn from Elric, because Sapkowski had enough creative talent to make Geralt a fully-drawn and unique person in his own right.
As to the idea of bringing Elric to the screen, the idea both fascinates and frightens me: fascinating, because the character and his story is so compelling, and frightening because his story is so complex and would be hard to properly portray.
. . . . oh, and I love your dramatic acting!
I recall Geralt assessing his appearance while standing opposite Dudu Biberveldt when he copied Geralt's form. "Is that what I look like? Damn." I don't think he meant it like Duke Nukem looking in a mirror: "Damn, I'm looking good." Quite the opposite. Opposite in two ways in fact. Disappointed rather than impressed and quickly over it rather than hung up on it. In conclusion Geralt didn't think himself handsome but wasn't overly bothered by it. Not a lot of need for mirrors in his profession. Even while Basilisk hunting. Congratulations on another superb video. I consider myself a Witcher lore aficionado and was not even ware of this.
I agree, it's supposed to be something like "Damn, I'm ugly". It certainly is in Czech translation and considering Czech and Polish languages are quite similar, I doubt there was any change in that sentence.
Geralt of Rivia is basically a "Sword-n-Sorcery" Charlie Brown. Change my mind.
@@dr.sinner7945 last translation I saw had it read something like "what an ugly grin I have," and it implied to me that he was sneering, negative expressions like that are often refered to as "ugly" not in a measure of the individuals attractiveness but in a sort of "it's menacing" way
but but... how does he shave if he doesn't use a mirror considering his always clean shaven. also ur brain makes u see yourself way more prettier than u are so maybe he was like damn thats how i ACTUALLY look like?
@@rabbitwithagun7171 Yeah, maybe seeing his face on somebody else let's his psychology accept that he is ugly. Also, he's a witcher, of course he can shave without a mirror. Or he just goes to the barber.
The similarities are not really that surprising. The Witcher stories are in many ways a riff off alot of ideas and stories. They are not a ripoff but a riffing from these stories. Sapkowski uses alot of well known western fairy tales such as snow white and beauty and the beast and does original things with them. The same holds true for elements of slavic folklore that I am familiar with. He remixes ideas, themes, tropes etc. into a compelling narrative of his own. In the same way Tolkein didn't invent elves and dwarves but gave them his own spin. Harry Potter was not the first story of a wizard school etc. Part of the appeal of alot of fantasy is the remixing of familar ideas. Taking a common touch point in a new direction. Some writers are better at it than others, and Sapkowski is occasionally more obvious but definitely enjoyable and interesting.
Are you sure that they are originally western stories?
What a BS!
I said some, I also noted he does the same for other folklore/fairy tale traditions too. Snow white in its currently most well known version is german. However it may also has some connection to ancient greek literature. Tracing a traditional story back is tricky and never precise, but it is pretty obvious that some of Sapkowski's inspirational sources may be the grimm brother versions of the tales.
@@adrianwebster6923 You know nothing. There's no ancient Greek literature - it's invented, plagiarized.
Btw, all of these are metaphysical stories about creation, with a little bit of new elements.
@@AnAncient76 Go back to school
@@shhs1227 School - center for indoctrination. No thx.
I've read both, and never thought Geralt was much of an Elric clone for one reason: salty and brooding as he is, in the end Geralt is one of the good guys, and Elric is definitely not. Also, team Pancakes.
Also, I wish I had sources for this but there are plenty of examples of Micheal Moorecock being just as much of grouchy jerk as Sapowski. "Epic Poohs", an essay where he just rants about how bad of a writer Tolkien, the major reason he had a job,is for example.
@@breandan3280 ahh yes the Epic Pooh ughh the worst piece of garbage of literary criticism I've ever read, Moorcock seemed to have been rather salty in it :) and his arguments were poor to put it delicately and mostly boiled down to 'he didn't write it this way I want' (one thing to note I love Tolkien's works and definitely enjoyed his style) and it seems some writers like to say how they hate Tolkien to show how edgy they are, personally I must say I've never really cared for Elric as a character, Moorcock also at times seemed pretentious in his writing to me, Sapkowski's writing no doubt makes the witcher separate and different enough that any accuasations of plagiarism (since I've heard some ;)) are way overplayed (in the same way we can say that Elric is plagiarising Witch-king of Angmar :) hehe, what? Both are sorcerers and warriors and rulers, from a corrupt and decadent culture, all points to that Witch-king comes from...island culture/civilization of Numenor, hmmm does that sound familiar? :) Hell the two even look the same ;) "Where is the pale king?' he asked wildly. "/"There were five tall figures: two standing on the lip of the dell, three advancing. In their white faces burned keen and merciless eyes...; in their haggard hands were swords of steel.... Desperate, he drew his own sword, and it seemed to him that it flickered red, as if it was a firebrand. Two of the figures halted. The third was taller than the others: his hair was long and gleaming and on his helm was a crown. In one hand he held a long sword, and in the other a knife; both the knife and the hand that held it glowed with a pale light. He sprang forward and bore down on Frodo." Hehehe sorry couldn't resist, but the two Witch-king and Elric do seem very uncanny similar in many ways :)). Sapkowski has penchant for witty dialogues and humor, Moorcock seems more like edgy, byronic. Sapkowski weaves more of a cynical outlook into his work, crude and vulgar mixed with metaphysical musings of destiny etc. some good humor in Sapkowski. Moorcock in the end also used inspiration of Kelvala (Tolkien as well used it for Turin Turambar character, even a black sword finds it's way here).
@Hammerin' Hank read them all more then once. Elric is not, by any means, a "good guy". Just because he was the last one standing after fighting the Lords of Chaos, doesn't make him good. He also killed all of his friends. Moorecock himself in an interview with Inquest magazine described Elric as a "psychopath". Elric spent most of the series as a willing servant of Chaos, destroyed his homeland pretty much for pretty revenge, and has a history of generally not being a great person.
@Hammerin' Hank You're seriously trolling if you think Moorecock is more talented than Tolkien. One is the grandfather of the genre, who's masterwork is called one of the best loved pieces of fiction in any genre, the other is (sadly, in my opinion because Moorecock IS good writer) barely remembered and when he is, it's in comparison to Sapowski.
While not entirely good, Elric was never truly evil,and all he did was for the "greater good" even if it backfired every single time he tried to do.
Things we owe to Mr. Moorcock, the D&D multiverse/planescape with the elemental planes etc, Chaos and Law and the Chaos star (he created it), GRIMDARK in general, awesome rock/metal, unique cosmology compared to other high fantasy writers such as Tolkien (his creation was a mix of judaiochristian mythology and the poetic Edda), anti heroes with deep philosophical paths, Black Dragons, the whole idea of a structured multiverse, even Dr Who draws inspiration from Moorcock, Warhammer/40K, its creators said it "blame Michael Moorcock", the Targaryens are basically the Melniboneans, Anomander Rake of the Malazan books is direct homage/rip off (depends on how one sees it) and the list goes on, of course the Witcher universe is influenced, even the moniker "The White Wolf" is obvious enough to take you there.
yup the whole Targaryens are pretty much copy/pasted meliboneans
40K is mostly a Dune ripoff, and War/Starcraft is a ripoff of Warhammer fantasy/40K.
Ahem..."Blackrazor"?! No idea where THAT one came from... Not to mention Hexblades.
I'll never forget this moment: "Elric looked up at Dyvim Tvar. 'Would you and your men leave me alone for a few moments?' 'Of course.' Dyvim Tvar led his men away and shut the door behind him. Arioch stood leaning against the same door. Again he had assumed the shape and poise of a handsome youth. His smile was friendly and open and only the ancient eyes belied his appearance." You know you are really screwed when a Lord of Chaos speaks to you in private. Of course, Geralt had his own G.O.D. er, Gaunter O'Dimm
Thank you. As a Michael Moorcock fan since 1979 I could not agree more with your in depth analyst of both these amazing fantasy heroes. Tolkien and R. E. Howard were my first introduction into fantasy in the late 70's when I was about 10 years old. Then on an off chance seeing an old paper back book with the words emblazoned "Elric of Melnibone" at a local book store I took a chance and discovered a true gem of a tale. The Tolkien influence is subtle in Moorcock's writing but there is no doubt at all he took inspiration from it. But like many great writers of the past the tales and heroes may be the same, as archetypes, but it is the telling of the story that differs. We are fans because these amazing tellers of tales inspire us to imagine such horrifying and imaginative worlds. Whether walking a long dusty road leading into the Shire, or wading through the white frigid steppes of Northern Hyboria, or even standing before the ruby throne of the pale king as the white wolf stands in sullen judgement. We love our tales and the writers who transport us there. Do they at times take a little liberty in the content of some of these stories and characters? Yes. But again I would say though the story is all the same, it is the telling of the tale that differs. They all draw from the same well of inspiration that the late author Joseph Campbell coined "the hero's journey". Religions were created from such works in the past and in turn have allowed creators to adjust and change certain traits in their characters. But in the end they all have an underlying inheritance to one another. Achilles, Samson, Gilgamesh, King Arthur, Aragorn, Conan, Elric, and Geralt all have a shared lineage. An ideology of the perfect yet flawed hero, one who may struggle with his destiny, but in the end achieves it to his greatest victory, or loss. Despite their greatness they show the small frailties of our own humanity. And in the end reflect our best virtues. I had just heard within the past few years of Geralt. And I can't lie at first glance immediately thought of Elric. I saw the netflix series and was entertained by it and recognized the many influences of the past heroes I have come to know in reading their stories. Seeing as how the Witcher has inspired its own fan-base I can't help but congratulate its writer. The more people who discover this amazing Genre of Fantasy the better. In this new age of technology it is a wonder that we turn to the past to discover such fascinating stories and heroes yet to be discovered and created. Regardless if they are all made from the same cloth. Thank you again for your honest assessment of these two incredible characters and the vast rich history that birthed them.
I like Geralt for what he is, but he doesn't really have a patch on Elric on any level. He's a great character, but Elric is an eternal champion and his stories operate on an almost entirely different power level. Blood and souls! Blood and souls! Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!
And that's exactly why elric is a terrible boring character
@@Viroh Alternatively, it's like saying I enjoy one character more than another because of the scale and breadth of their stories among other things. The other guy is entitled to his (bad) opinion, this is just very poor comprehension in general. Concepts flow from the preceding. The entire premise was based on what /I/ like. It's literally the second word.
@@Viroh Okay reading comprehension test. Which of these weren't objectively true in relation to "I like". Hint, I'm not going through each sentence, they are all objectively truly my opinion. But even if that weren't the case, it's still a pretty questionable comeback since all except calling Geralt "a great character" are actually, objectively true. Elric was indeed one of the incarnations of the Eternal Champion in Moorcock's universe. Elric, the pale prince of ruin, last emperor of Melnibone, tends to do larger nation-state war size plots more often (although as short fiction there are smaller scale encounters as well), and is typically more of a higher fantasy than low magic setting.
Falling for Elric is a death sentence for ANY girl in the series. 100% of them die from Stormbringer ...
I don't recall Oone meeting such a bad end
In the story where he hunts for a special book the girl lives
People read both.
And the fact that Sapkowski took advantage of the ideas of other writers a little is wrong? Even Tolkien did it.
Most good writers use other writers' good ideas, adding their own ideas. Only poor creators keep reinventing the wheel.
As for Sapkowski, he is what he is. He is actually a good man, though a bastard :) Something like Geralt sometimes, right? :)
In Polish interviews he often mentioned that, unlike ordinary Polish people, he had the opportunity to learn about the works of dozens of writers from around the world, which was then unavailable to Poles.
The witcher began writing for his son. He probably didn't even dream about the success that came a few years later.
In recent years, especially after the death of his son, he has changed. Softened. He got along with CDPR.
As far as I know, he has mentioned many English-speaking writers. From what I remember, he had a particularly high esteem for Ursula LeGuin.
Sorry for the bad English :) It's a google translator :).
What's great about Sapkowski is he didn't reinvent the wheel but mixed LotR, slav pagan stories and fairy tales and added dark/ funny twists. Sprinkled with his economist/ corporate experience. He also added 200 pages of in-detail battle descriptions, I guess after reading a "14'th century battle strategy" book or something.
that is how we advance we borrow ideas and improve or tweak them until something new is created Sapkowski is just a literature inventor
(sorry for my english... I speak french :-)
Today I discovered the existence of Proper Bird through this wonderful analysis of Elric's universe. This character has been part of my life since 1989. I know him, as well as the universe of the Eternal Champions, in depth (Hawkmoon, etc.). I must also say that I love the universe of Geralt too. Even if the subject of comparaison is not new, it has not been done well very often. I must admit that this video shows a very articulate woman, well thought out and who masters her subject well. Proper Bird did her homework very well before making this video. For that, I congratulate her. For this reason, I decided to explore her Twich channel as well and I watched other RUclips videos. I can say that the more I listen to Proper Bird, the more I appreciate the maturity of her words and the intelligence she exudes. Well done to you, Proper Bird ... and thank you for providing us with smart entertainment. You have a new fan :-)
I read the Witcher this year and Elric some 3 years ago and I didn't even notice that there were similarities before reading the title of the video, and in my head they feel like very different books.
Because they are, as I mention at length in the video. :)
yea, I’ve only partially read the witcher series and I haven’t read elric at all, but from what I gather, the Elric series seems a lot more high fantasy and D&D like, where magic is very normal in the universe and used regularly. Whereas in the witcher it’s more of a low fantasy, it’s set in more of a historically accurate medieval setting, and magic, although abundant, isn’t used regularly by most people, in fact, a lot of regular folk are against its use and avoid it. That difference alone makes these two series completely different to me, because they’re practically two different genres.
Gerald and Ciri try to save the world, while I kill the gods and destroy the world. No comparison.
Same
Yo, Jinzee! Found my way back to this video... again. I gotta say thanks for introducing me to Elric! I'm totally loving his saga. As much as I will always love your Witcher content first and foremost, I certainly wouldn't hate some more Elric content! A quick search shows no one else is really doing any quality Elric content, and that's a shame!
I read Elric years ago, back in the late 80s. I was way addicted. Love both.
Moorcock said he wanted to create a complete antithesis of the classic swords and sorcery hero. Instead of the burly barbarian who hates magic, saves his homeland, kills wizards and saves the maiden; he gives us Elric, a weakling wizard, who destroys his homeland, kills his woman and lays waste to barbarians. As for the similarities between Geralt and Elric, they can be marked as common tropes of swords and sorcery-everybody uses and abuses them.
There are far too many similarities between Elric and Geralt that it is borderline plagiarism. Who really does it best, breaking it down, is Razorfist. Go see his video which is over 1 hour long describing how Geralt is a huge rip off of Elric. It's the most concise argument for his case
@@earlywhite7960 That's a horrible video full of, well quite blatant, biased viewpoints and poor comparison. I am not sure what Razorfist had against the witcher author, but I feel it might be personal and possibly include inappropriate touching.
@@vaguedreams I am guessing you didn't actually watch that video? Because like I said he broke down the history of each authors work and how you can see how one inspired the other. Even using samples from the audio books from each series. It is laughably plagiarism and as he said even mentions in the video if Sapkowski would just admit he lifted some ideas from Elric then he wouldn't be so upset over the issue.
@@earlywhite7960 Except he doesnt. Razorfist doesnt even know his so fanboyed over Elric otherwise he wouldnt have made the armor comparisons (as elric spends at best 5% of his time in anything other than robes, spiky edgelord plate armor/relatively over the top breastplate with regular armor and leg protection and either said spiky edgelord plate pants OR a colourful conan skirt while going shirtless), he wouldnt have fucked up 1/18 different tribal icons on models and ICON OF A SALAMANDER (because thats what salamandas actual icon is, a google is enough) with the damn sign of chaos.
He wouldnt confuse paltry cantrips with GOD DAMNS SUMMONING OF NEAR DEMIGOD ELEMENTALS.
He would know that despite looking cool Elric didnt use Glagoljica for its runes. Killing a snow white reference =/= complex cousin incest murder triangle (well more like pentagon if you include mournblade and stormbringer).
Or worst of all, comparing Moonglum to Dandy bardpants despite him sharing more actual similarities to Geralt while Wheldrake exist as the bard comparison (it still doesnt hold, but at least it would be a argument one could argue over instead of flat out asspull).
Oh or shall we talk about how he as a idiot completely skimmed over the biggest actual similarity (Conjunction of Spheres) which is actually the D&D-ified bastardization of the full conjunction of a million spheres from elric to be used as a world model based on the fact that moorcock was a fan of D&D and openly wanted his setting to be used before ip lawyerfuckering screwed it over?
@@ANDELE3025 Again I refer to the fact Razor used comparisons based on the dialogue from the audio books. Also my friend he points out that Sapkowski was a polish translator for fantasy literature in the 80s. He translated Elric of Melnibone in 1985 which was the same year he wrote his first Witcher story (Also Sapkowski lists Elric in his novel of Fantasy Canons). Moorcock openly admits he has gotten influence from other sources and as Razor points out the difference between inspiration/homage and plagiarism is attribution. Sapkowski refuses to acknowledge he has lifted ideas from Moorcock (even though his character is also called The White Wolf).
4:54 "What was stolen, my Lord?"
"Everything."
I'm gonna be 40 come this April and when I was in my late teens early 20s, I read all of the Moorcock-Elric books and loved them. Personally, I don’t see Garalt as a copy character at all. The only thing that's similar are the looks. Everything else is quite different.
I’m really happy to hear someone talking about Elric he is so awesome and the books are amazing all of them. I would highly recommend reading all the eternal champion books by Micheal moorcock
Jinzee, you genuinely made me fall in love with the series and i am honestly grateful for that, thank you for continuing series like these, or just a deep dive into the lore itself. Honestly after watching your lor videos i either want to go back to the older games or even start the book series !
Regardless i hope you've been well and again, thank you always for what you do and keep up the amazing work : )
This was a fantastic video. I didn't even know of Elric until I was talking to may Dad one day about Geralt and the whole Witcher series. He said "oh, he's kind of like Elric" he then told me about him and his books. I never even realized that my Dad even had a framed picture of Elric in his bedroom!
Definitely want to read more Elric stuff someday. Still a diehard Witcher fan as well.
Team pancakes!!
Why your dad has a framed picture of a fictional character in his bedroom? That's the most random thing :x
@@LeAlejx It was a gift from my uncle. Hey, I have plenty of pictures of fictional characters on my wall too. Lol
your dad is definitely a cool one to have elric pictures in his room :D
I had honestly never heard of Elric of Melnibone before this video, and you went about things thoroughly and as concisely as one could without leaving out important information. Definitely earned my sub.
Sure Geralt is similar to Elric, I wouldn’t even be surprised if Sapkowski was the one who translated Elric’s stories into Polish and that’s where he got the inspiration, but like you said, they exist in very different ways. Elric constantly handles world ending and universe altering tasks and is so vastly different to a normal Human of our world. Whereas Geralt is just a modified Human who will literally go get your frying pan if the price is right. I’d be willing to bet that if Geralt was given a soul sucking sword to completely obliterate someone from existence, he’d probably try to destroy it seeing as he has family and friends he really cares about. Oh and pancakes every time.
No, the first polish release of Erlic was in 1994, first witcher story was published in 1986, first two books were published before 1993.
@@rarr2130 but there will still be pancakes right?
@Rainy Days Why would he? Knowing English to such a level as to read a complicated book series is a high bar.
He was paid to translate the books. He read them but didn't release the Polish version. He wrote stories he called his own instead. No one knows why.
Wrong info mate.
The translators of Elric saga into Polish were: Radosław Kot, Andrzej Rosanoff, Justyna Zanberg and Sławomir Janicki.
I know why you think he translated that .Please do some research after listening to some stupid RUclipsrs.
RUclipsrs are not reliable sources
Moorcock's Elric was amazing as was his other Enternal Champion Corum. I read all of his books that I could back in the eighties and just now finishing the last book of the Witcher series, and I am having a hard time finding any similarity of the two.
Team Corum of the silver hand!! \o/ wooo hoooo!!
Having a hard time finding similarities? Wow, attention span of a goldfish. Attention span of a goldfish. Attention span of a goldfish.
Hawkmoon, Erekosë, Oswald Bastable, the Grafs von Bek, the Dancers at the End of Time. Moorcock has so many good characters (but Corum Jharel Israe is definitely up there).
@@itmademesignup9508 Uhuh... just an aside, Goldfish attention span is actually high, as is their memory. Of course, that particular myth was pretty much made up by people with zero knowledge of Fish Biology. It has been disproven multiple times, I even have many of the papers.
@Jacqueline Davis Maybe that was the joke?
I think there are some misunderstandings about the Elric Saga. The nature of the story is about Elric's personal journey not the grand quest.
The layered and psychedelic nature of Elric can be confusing and feel incomplete without reading the whole saga.
I also don't feel that you were clear on the subject of Law and Chaos.
That Conan joke had me laughing pretty hard.
Same 😂
@@island_girl 2:12 - 2:24
@dianna k 2:12 - 2:24
@@MacScarfield nono es o.... I meant "same" as in, it made me laugh too! But thanks anyway! 😉👍
I remember that in one of the Corum books a woman from another "universe" calls Corum, who has pointy ears too, an Elf. It read like a reference to our "real" world.
Finally! Someone brings up Elric!
Also. Wow! Proper Bird is back! I haven’t heard that soothing story telling voice in a long time. 🤩🥳👏👏👏
I love that you started with the poem from Fortress of the Pearl, I think it encapsulates the themes and overarching elements of Elric saga perfectly.
Also I find the comparison between Elric and Geralt skin deep. In reality, the thematic positioning is way different on both. Geralt is much more of an instrument of "blue collar perspective" and analogies for elitism against people who do "undesirable jobs". Elric read much more like a Greek Tragedy, it is clear in the prose the unraveling of Elric, his relationship with Arioch, and the predestined path that he is pushed through, often unwillingly and melancholically. Ruminations of Geralt are much more jaded and detached by comparison, often looking at the society from beside itself, and often as a defense mechanism of Geralt; Sapkowski uses Geralt as a lens to explore that alienated society. The alienation of Elric is much more internal, prophetic, and ultimately, self destructive.
All this regarding Elric is of course about the main Elric timeline, if we get into the the Multiverse, the Eternal Champion and others, it quickly becomes soup.
I can sort of understand Sapkowski’s bitterness, the times he lived in. It wasn’t that he hated the games, he just didn’t understand video games in general. In his day video games may have been different what with the Iron Curtain and all that. Pop culture took its time, and the potential for storytelling in games eluded him. I guess to him games were stuff like snakes and ladders or pac man or donkey kong? From what I see in his recent interviews he seems alright, not bitter, well not more than most his age.
I don't doubt he was also somewhat disillusioned with games after the first Witcher game just didn't go anywhere. I'm still somewhat hopeful he might ever co-operate with CDPR on any future Witcher games.
Proper Bird from what I gather his attitude towards CDProject and games in general have somewhat mellowed these past few years.
Almost seems like karma, really.
Sapkowski is a "typical polish" as we often call it in Poland. He underestimated how powerful game industry is and then went sour when he realized how much money he could have made otherwise.
He also claimed to be Tolkien of our times...
@@Fer-ev3jo
Well, all of the jokes about Polish people I was subjected to as a child, did seem to suggest they are not a people overly prone to deep contemplation.
Thank you! For giving your opinion of both series without ragging on one or the other. They are both excellent reads. I've read all the Elric books and now all of the Witcher books. I love both series. Geralt is obviously influenced by Elric. Tolkien actually commented on writers influencing each other and that it was a perfectly normal thing to borrow from the "cosmic stew" of ideas. Although I could tell Geralt was influenced by Elric, I never would have thought him an outright clone. And I totally agree that Geralt's stories are much more intimate. Your video was very entertaining. Love the acting out of the two characters talking to each other! -- And we won't bring up Prince Nuada from Hellboy 2: the Golden Army. Eh hmm....
Gotta love that Elric art sick as hell
The originality of the story is amazing
I hope it’s show does it justice
This is my very first video of yours that I watch and I can't begin to tell you how much I have enjoyed it. It was an hour long and to be honest, I didn't even notice and was sad when it ended. You actually made me LOL on several occasions! I would also like to say that as both and Elric and a Geralt fan, who is currently my #1 book boyfriend (and has been for a while), I agree with you on everything that you said. You have a brand new fan.
Also, even tho I'm a French toast kinda girl, Imma give my vote to waffles. 🤷♀️
Wait... you have Lovecraft stories too?!
Squee!!! 💚
I've read some of the Elric books, and played all the Witcher games but not read any of the books (and FWIW I feel more affinity for Elric). I think you make a convincing case that Elric was an important influence on Geralt and Geralt's setting, but frankly until now I had never thought to compare them. They both have white hair and fight with swords, sure, but otherwise it felt like apples and oranges. Elric is the highest form of high fantasy, whereas Witcher's whole point seems to be to portray a working-class hero in a low fantasy world (which made the White Frost plot seem rather incongruous to me). Having watched your video now, though, I have to agree that the two have more in common than I suspected.
The games are rather interesting because they aren't a full on adaptation of the books, they are a sequel to the books. A non canon sequel as the author doesn't consider them canon.
If you are looking for a Dandelion analogue, I would suggest peering at Jhary-a-Conel, companion to Corum Jhaelen Irsei, another version of the Eternal Champion from the Knight / Queen / King of the Swords trilogy.
Jinzee I admit that I had asked you from time to time to cover the Elric series and you were always positive in your comments but at the time, also non-committal as to when you might.
Fast forward to today, I got the RUclips notification that this video dropped. A HAPPY DANCE ENSUED!!
This is a great introduction to Elric for those unfamiliar with Moorcocks writings and there is plenty of room for both Elric and Geralt to co-exist.
Thank you SO MUCH for this video Jinzee.
The thing was a monster to research properly but I hope I did it justice!
@@ProperBird - You have and Moorcock himself would be proud if he were alive to know you treated his legacy with respect and honor.
@@MrTruth-yn7pq Michael Moorcock is still alive! :)
Here you are back at it again with some fantastic content that you clearly worked extremely hard on, I need more of this in my life!!!
Edit: you always have the best Witcher t-shirts, I'm envious🙄
Love the cosplay humor. This video was so great!!! Thank you so much I bet this took a TON of work. Hope you are doing well.
Moorcock wrote an essay entitled "Starship Stormtroopers" that I highly recommend everyone go read.
Great video!!!!
I have many, many Michael Moorcock books and have read them many times; Elric the most. There was a web site for Moorcock fans where Mike would answer your questions and write to the fans (really cool guy). He always said that he came from a time when writers and artists shared ideas so it never bothered him when other people's projects were heavily influenced by his works. He himself was heavily influenced by Edgar Rice Burroughs and he even created a character, Michael Kane of Mars, which was his own version of John Carter. Elric himself was created because a publisher wanted a Conan style of story.
I can feel an Elric/Witcher crossover brewing.
Great video, you really nailed it. I do hope Moorcock gets a little more recognition someday, though it may not be until after his passing.
Also listen to “Warrior on the Edge of Time” by Hawkwind.
@@colinstock325 Trust me, I have.
OK, the elf thing, there is a connection. The Melnibonians are one of a group of related races in MM's oeuvre, including the Eldren and the Vadhagh. The Eternal Champion avatar Corum, is a Vadhagh, and the Vadhagh are connected to the 'Proto-Celts', with the Celts being culturally influenced by the Vadhagh (in universe). Another race related to the Vadhagh and the Melnibonians are the Sidhe - the Sidhe are both a race in Moorcock's cannon and also the 'Fair Folk' of Irish mythology, the Irish version of the Alfr of the Anglo-Saxons and Norse. So, at a few removes, the Melnibonians are indeed 'Elves'. The Anglo-Norse Elves were once considered, like the Sidhe, as being human-sized and powerful magical beings. This was shown in the many 'Aelf names', Aelfred (elf-counsel), Aelfhelm (obvious), Aelfgar (elf spear) and of course, Aelfric (elf ruler), ring any bells? Elric is a version of Aelfric, so not only is Elric an Elf, his name proclaims him the 'Elf-king'.
A couple of things. Yes, watched to the very end. Elves, Dwarves and the like are not the property of nor the creation of Tolkien. They existed in mythology long before Tolkien existed. His books simply made the concept of them more relatable as people. Tolkien breached the barrier of the fantasy author as a respectable concept for an adult to pursue. He loved his world and sought to teach others his languages and lore as if they were real. That's inspiring.
The concept of Elric as a person tied to a sentient blade, rising and falling into tragedy is fantastic in every sense. The very concepts of Law, Chaos and Neutrality as gods influenced the works of Gary Gygax. The cover artwork for the books was breathtaking.
My favorite contribution made by the Witcher series was the concept of truly binding the lore of a creature to it's defeat. It meant that monsters were not simply a matter of enough blades or bullets to end them. You needed the right item, timing and tactic. This made the monsters more compelling. The Witcher, oddly, made his world more believable by guiding the reader/viewer through his experiences.
It's as if Moorcock behaved more like the Witcher and Sapkowski acted like Elric. The author of Elric, as a person, wants to engage the public and share the experience, whereas the author of the Witcher is more self-centred and bitter. Ironic.
Of course I stumbled upon this thanks to the algorithm, and I am glad I did. Y'all, this person has BROKEN IT DOWN. Totally subbed!
"Please don't hurt me. I have a child"
That convinced me
Didnt convince elric
Holy shit, girl! The algorithm just brought your channel to me and thank gods for it! Your content, editing, humor, everything is on point and I can see you doing great things! (Not to come off like a weirdo, I just haven’t seen content of this quality in a long time.) Anyway, I’m subbed and will probably spend the rest of my day catching up on your channel. Thanks for what you do!
Fascinating deep-dive - thanks. I was an avid Moorcock fan in my teens - late 60s/early 70s - when I also discovered Tolkien, my all-time favourite fantasy writer. Although the Professor seems to have kick-started the modern fantasy era, we mustn't forget writers like Lord Dunsany and William Morris who wrote some wonderful tales much earlier.
And then there's the folklore roots so rich in Tolkien and the Witcher world. In fact, Slavic folklore felt strong ehen I discovered the Witcher 3 game and read the books in my 60s - yes, I'm an oldie gamer. Strangely enough, untilI watched your video, I hadn't made the Elric connections as it's been almost five decades since I encountered that earlier white-haired lad. Time to revisit?
This reminds me of the Babylon Five vs DS9 debate. What matters is that we got two cool things instead of just one.
i Certainly chuckled when Stormbringer was suggested as a sword name in game of thrones
Martin has a ton of little references like that. (And some not so little ones)
Proper Bird describing the "Incarnations of Immortality" "It's a little weird."
Young lady, you have a penchant for the understatement.
Unless they are all read, it is confusing. They are each other Erikos, Hawkmoon, etc. Some are good at heart from birth.
Elric was very much a creation of his time - part of the post 50s explosion of creativity that was a natural result of its having been repressed after decades of depression and war around the world. Geralt was born behind the Iron Curtain, under the bootheel of soviet oppression. Just as with Law and Chaos, neither scenario is better or worse than the other, just different sides of the same coin. I've read both, and am a fan of both. Honestly, it hadn't occurred to me to compare them, other than noting the obvious similarities. Great video!
I use the concept of The Eternal Champion and the multiverse as a meta way to explain why I always play the same character in nearly every rpg with character creation.
Holy shit! That Elric guy sounds badass
He is
10 minutes in and I wish Elric series got a good adaptation tbh, story sounds amazing
The Elric books were my third fantasy series I ever read right after Hobbit/Lord of the Rings and Narnia. Man what a culture shock that was. That said it's set me up the whole time to see all the works that came after that were inspired by it.
That all said I never really considered Elric and the Witcher beyond a superficial level. This video was really great.
That said two of my favorite Elric inspired worked is Castlevania's Alucard and Full Metal Alchemist, especially the first series which might as well be canon to Moorcock's Multiverse.
You missed Corum as one of the incarnations of Eurecose, though there is a picture of him at 11:03, the guy in red with the silver hand, and what looks like a eye patch but is actually a magic eye (If I remember correctly I last read the Corum books around 1985)
he wore the eyepatch over the magic eye bc it could only see into the netherworld
Great use of the Titan Comics Elric adaptation for reference! It's such a great adaptation of Elric that Moorcock approved of the changes in the comic and wishes he made those changes now.
I loved the Titan comics, all the other ones pale in comparison for sure. I hope the 2020 comic is still coming out for them!
Funny enough I've also heard that Warhammer borrowed directly from Moorecock when making some of their lore like the symbol of chaos and chaos existing in a similar way
It is heavily implied that Geralt is somewhat ugly. Possibly his scars make them so. I maybe read one or two Elric saga books but they never "caught" me really. Not that they are uninteresting but the flow of them didn't really. I also read Sapkowskis work much earlier in original which is many times hilarious because of word play which may/may not be lost in translation from Polish. I am definately more aquiainted with Comic book Elric though. And have slightly better memories of that. Btw. There are few Witcher comic books as well which are pretty good but in these instances I feel the books is my preference.
Really I never got the impression Geralt was ugly at all. I mean the guy seems to hook up with enough women.
There are quite a few 1960s/70s fantasy stories that I term "tripping fantasy" - because the stories have really good ideas at times but they are all over the place in terms of coherent story because the author was probably high as a kite. Elric is a prime example.
I do not think Geralt is ugly as such, although his appeal to most women seems to be his distinctive appearance - including his many scars - and that Witchers are known for their stamina, their immunity to disease and their sterility. You do not meet too many other Witchers in the stories but you do get the sense that even the most ugly ones have a certain appeal due to their Witcher traits.
Elric is the last unspoiled material left on earth
Interesting!
What if Elric is Eridin.
Imagine a story about Eredin's journey to his current position as the Kind of the Wild Hunt. To the point his story intertwined with Geralt's.
or what if Elric is Avalach? and Avalach is Melkor!!
In terms of Moorcock, read about Corum. At very least the first book. He's a purely good version of the hero, who is given a terrible power.
This was my first video I have seen of yours. It was excellent. The humor is spot on and actually made me chuckle out loud. Also, your objective view of both of these series was very good. Thank you for this. I will be watching more.
From just watching first 16 minutes I can already tell this series inspired elements of The Witcher and A Song of Ice and Fire.
I tried and tried again to read the Elric series back in the day. I never could get very far because the very fragmented way it was written worked against it for me. I have, however, read the Witcher series all the way through. As an overarching series, the Witcher's storytelling just holds together much better for me. However, Elric's series is an important cornerstone of fantasy writing. It is one of the building blocks that more modern heroic fantasy, such as The Witcher, is built upon.
Unreal. I thought The Witcher seemed all too familiar. I read all the Eric books, long, long ago. Familiar, for true. Thank you for this, Proper Bird.
"Yyrkoon is just a step above being gross... somehow."
Perfectly said. Got a solid laugh out of that one. :D
Yyrkoon is a true to heart Melnibonean. Elric was only born of it. The other Incarnations...
Melnibonéans are the originators of a lot of dark elf tropes, particular the Dark Elves/Eldar from the Warhammer franchises, so I can see why people would think of Elric as being elven.
That story with the eternal champion fusion megazord is my favourite Elric story. So glad you mentioned it!
Honestly i think the conjunction of the spheres is, with everything else that is similar, is sort ot the smoking gun here.
I wouldnt care if sapkowski actually credited moorcock but he simply doesn't.
Stormbringer is a heavy drug metaphor. Those addicted frequently make choices you may find "dumb".
O lol I had this issue of Fantastyka when I was a teenager! My mum had her short story published in Fantastyka too, so obviously I was a big fan of this magazine and Andrzej Sapkowski obviously. It is so amazing that you digged it out 🤘 respect.