Those motors hang way down, they are going to get bashed up on the trail. Magna needs to use a design, similar to the portal design on the Unimog, to put the motor on top of the axle so the bottom of the motors are flush with the bottom of the axle bar. They'll lose a bit of power (of which there's plenty) but it will be much easier to protect the motors.
@@alexs825, you don't have to go full portals at the hubs, Magna just needs to add the gearing to the motor so the bottom is flush with the axle bar instead of being centered on it. That motor package, as it is, just hangs down way too low for a vehicle meant to be driven off-road. That said, I don't really think mounting the motors on the axles is the way to go on a jeep conversion if the idea is to try and keep the ability to articulate like the original. It would be better to keep the original axles and just replace the ICE with an electric motor. Sure you'd lose some power going through the original axle gearing, but then it wouldn't effect the vehicle's off-road capability or your ability to modify the suspension. Additionally, you won't have the "unsprung weight" issue they have with the current design.
I would totally buy one just as a daily driver, pending it’s on-road performance. I’m willing to bet it will be more expensive than the average person can afford though.
Probably will be more expensive but it doesn't have to be. Eliminating the cost of the engine, transmission and driceshafts probably offsets the costs of the EV drivetrain.
FINALLY!!!!!! I've been waiting for the Gladiator 4xe. I have a short daily commute and I love the extra storage of the Gladiator over Wrangler. Ooops, looks like a commented before watching the video first.
Great job asking about un-sprung weight, Andre. The engineer down-played it, but it’s really one of the biggest challenges they will need to deal with on a platform like this. Otherwise, I think it makes great sense.
That's being generous. He just glossed right over the unsprung weight question. If they want true off roaders to buy into electric they need to be open and honest about the compromises. I personnally own a Wrangler Rubicon 4xe and have dealt with a lot of people that discount 'electric' off roading until they experience it. Electric power is ideal for torque and control when off roading. I love the 4xe off road and can't wait for a true BEV off roader.
I think this is an awesome concept, I don’t think it will be popular with off roaders in its current form though. That battery is tiny for a vehicle as heavy and un-aerodynamic as it is. On the trail range is likely less than 60 miles, unless you can charge at the trail head, then make it back to the trail head to charge for the trip home. 1 mi/kWh or less is likely the on trail efficiency it will see, 1.8-2.5 would be my guess for street driving. Overall I am very excited and would personally love to own one.
Actually ev are way more efficient off road then on road vs a gas vehicle remember most of the fuel goes to idling where and ev doesn't need to idle it would be off at when at 0
not really ill be out on the trails sometimes for days camping never going back to civilization during that time guess what the ev can't be charged and may catch fire so ev is not for me tbh.
@@zaccruise3306 Gas vehicles catch on fire 10x more than EVs 🤦♂ and as for charging, Rivian is looking to add chargers mid-trail. Since you don't need any infrastructure - just solar panels and a charger, EVs can be charged anywhere. No need for trucks carrying fuel to middle of nowhere.
I’ve taken my F-150 Lightning off road a few times and gotten 1.8-2.0 mi/kWh efficiency… most serious was wheeling in the off-road park for about 2.5 hours and used 10% of the battery (I have the smaller 98 kWh battery).
The biggest issue I see with this offroad is the same issue the Rivian has. There is no way to lock all four tires to the same speed. Even without diff lockers, a regular Jeep would lock the front and rear axles to the same speed. This makes things very predictable. This would be better that the Rivian in the fact that you can still have a diff lock. But you can still get into cases where the front and rear are turning at different speeds due to different amounts of load being applied.
The project of making a fully electric gladiator is very interesting. Now I have many questions, from what type of batteries, their duration, their efficiency. We, the Jeep fans, put larger wheels and tires and many questions.
I'd think one benefit with all electric is that you don't need a transfer case. You can still have a 4-Low mode, but it can be emulated electronically. As an off roader, I'd prefer a remote inverter. It may be fully weather sealed, but I wouldn't want to fully submerge it in water. It just doesn't feel right.
You still need gearing reduction offroad. Electric motors draw HUGE amounts of current at very low RPM. Also, one of the main reasons for low gearing is control. Trucks like the Rivian really suffer in this regard because they are very unpredictable offroad. The e-axle is certainly better for efficiency though.
@@Stuka87 The Rivian doesn't have a "low" range. If you remap the throttle pedal so full throttle is actually 1/4 throttle, you eliminate the jerkiness.
@@aaronbritt2025 Yes, but you still draw heaps of current because the motors are at a near stall. Low gearing would let them get into a higher RPM so that they would be more efficient.
This Electric Gladiator is interesting and intriguing. It seems to work ok and it appears they made the conversion with minimal changes and actual alterations to the Jeep chassis and body. My personal opinion is the e-axle adds a decent amount of weight to each axle set and it’s packaging space will impact both its off road and on highway and performance over the standard gas Gladiator. The gas gladiator itself is a bit porky in weight. This electric conversion adds to that issue. However, that currently seems to be a required trade off for an battery electric vehicle at todays stage of technology. Presently, I think I would prefer the current 4xe configuration offered on the wrangler over this configuration. It’s layout counts where it matters as far as ground clearance and overall axle sizing and total vehicle weights.
All jeeps are riddled with electric issues bc fiat is garbage then add an electric motor you're asking for a disaster 1980s jeeps are the most capable for a reason
Great 1st test although if it's going to be fitted to a Jeep it has to be tested in a technical rock garden where multiple stops and starts are needed in order to get through.
If you're keeping stock suspension and brakes, but adding weight with the electronic components and batteries, wouldn't that cause excessive wear and tear to those stock components?
He does mention getting the suspension back to stock height due to the weight, so qt least stiffer springs on here. As for brakes, much less wear in EVs and hybrids that use regen.
I wish that they would do a hybrid version in which all the electronic components are there, but it still has an engine only serving to charge the battery. I think this would be a slam dunk. Otherwise I don't see the viability of a fully electric vehicle on an authentic overlanding expedition without charging stations.
Yes, combined with independent front and rear. Thats a fundamentally different vehicle than a wrangler though. Jeep has an all new off road Jeep coming out some day, maybe sell it with the Wrangler side by side.
Magna already supplies parts and components for most vehicles you see on the road today. The point is that Jeep could use this solution for their Wrangler and/or Gladiator in the future. However, there is no word from Jeep about this yet.
The solid axle implementation here is not a great idea. The unsprung weight will be a huge problem over time, as will the vibration intensity on the components. The ground clearance is also way worse than a diff pumpkin for rock crawling. Cool prototype and concept, but I would prefer just going independent suspension.
Unsprung weight is a good thing offroad (minus desert racing). Its the reason people often find they get better traction after swapping out D44's for D60's. That extra weight improves weight, and lowers the center of gravity. Ground clearance is a downer though.
@@J.Young808 It doesnt, it would have to be in forward. I wasnt seriously suggesting it be pulled in gear with no one in it. But it would be neat to be in it while being towed and set it up for max regen. Seems like I saw a video of someone towing a Tesla several years ago to see how well it could recharge that way.
What is the charge rate? I'm hoping it is better than the 4XE. Also, is the charger an MPPT with PV input? If so, what is the voltage, and watt input minimum and max? Oh, and is the battery LiFePo4? Regardless of chemistry, will it be expandable without me having to red neck it for expansion? Because, I can and would actually. And if you haven't any of these features, and future customizations, then please look at doing it in the future. For the instant cult following you would get.
I would want the drive unit to replace the engine/transmission/transfercase powertrain and leave the axles/suspension stock One motor/diff/controller centrally located would be perfect offroad tucked up between the frame rails and plenty of room for batteries in the engine bay and gas tank bay 2 low slung motors and 4 second 0-60 is not what you need offroad
While I’m not in love with the idea to concentrate electrification efforts on bigger vehicles (because of the amount of material necessary to build the batteries), I appreciate how data is collected and how the R&D can lead us towards the right path. But please, carmakers: make EVs affordable. Electrification should be for everyone, not just a small portion of wealthy folks.
@@jghall00 What I mean by that is all the bells and whistles carmakers feel the need to add to the cars. Take the Ariya, for example. Do you really need an electric center console? Mach-E: do you really need to reinvent door handles? Just bring the costs down. Chevy Bolt is a good example: affordable for at least the middle class. Now, electrifying bigger cars, I’m all for it. But consumers need smaller and more affordable options
@@jaybou007 The challenge is that the manufacturers have difficulty making a profit on smaller vehicles until they achieve scale. That's why they all start with expensive vehicles. Tesla was the first to get there, but GM Ford, and Kia are ramping up their investment in battery plants and will attain lower costs in the future.
I wish they had the Gladiator 4xe (plug-in hybrid) on the market now. BEV is a tough one as battery tech will continue to advance over the next few years, plus if you run out of juice away from chargers, what do you do?
I always thought the best setup for a rock crawler would be in hub motors. Rock crawlers don’t care as much about unsprung weight (especially when sporting 40” tires). It puts the weight of the vehicle at the point of contact on the wheels. It allows for a multitude of torque vectoring options and would allow for super tight turning radius because you wouldn’t have to worry about axles. Ground clearance can be amazing because the drive train is in the wheel. They would need to prove themselves in mud/ice/water exposure but Elaphe has done that. Come on Jeep! Try it! Let’s see if it’s better!
I am all for electric. I really hope the market takes off and the tech gets better. My biggest complaint is range, and infrastructure for charging. And for off roading like what are they going to do? Put charging stations all over Moab and the rubicon. What about all the other trails across North America? And durability. Jeeps are so popular for off road vehicles because of their simplicity and durability. If that rear diff gets slammed down on a rock is it going to hold up? Right now electric is great in the city. I would recommend it all the time. If all you need a vehicle to commute to work. Pick up food or do a little shopping. 100% electric is the way to go. But for off road and long trips? The infrastructure is not there. Specially in Canada where I live. The range is not there and the reliability and strength is not there.
I can agree and disagree at the same time. Range is less of a complaint after owning an EV. I though it was all about range, and after 34k miles in a year, it is all in charging speed for me. Now, I do say for me, and I think this will apply to many more as well. I travel for work and my vehicle is my office most of the time. Having a range over 250 miles is enough most of the time, but not always. Having the ability to bring it back to 80% in around 15-20 minutes, not that is where it is key. Even if driving for a full 8 hours in a day, which I have exceeded many times, but I am considering an 8 hr work day. Average speed of 60 miles per hour for east math gives you a max range somewhere around 420 miles. Now that would also be a day of getting no work and just traveling. You can do that easily starting with a charge and having 1 stop to charge, most likely could be around lunch for 15, 20 or even 30 minutes would work for many. Now infrastructure, this is key and much more is needed. It cannot be built overnight which is why it will get better in time. Thing is it needs to outpace the adoption of EV’s to be as successful as possible, which is certainly not necessarily the case currently. Granted, my pain has been less than it would be for you in Canada I would assume, as well as more open areas of the US. I am based on the east coast where charging is a bit more prevalent. Is it great, not by any means, but it has been usable. I traveled up and down the coast over the past year and even the existing infrastructure needs help, improvements and expansion. It will only get worst as more and more EV’s hit the road without proper investment in the infrastructure. Charge times are key to keep everyone moving. More range while it would be nice usually requires a bigger battery which will only extend charging times. As the technology gets better, charge times and battery capacity/range will improve. This improvements only come from R&D dollars being spent due to a viable money making need for the manufacturing companies to fill. In the short term we will have some growing pains. It will seem long as our society these days is so use to immediate gratification. All in good time.
It looks like they did a ton of work and engineering to get this done. I like how they can preserve the looks of the vehicle but I believe there is one major drawback. That rear axle motor/drive unit does not appear to have a lot of ground clearance.
I'm not a fan of the un-sprung weight of motor/diff/axle combo. I've owned solid axle Wranglers and independent suspension Grand Cherokees, and I won't ever go back to 100-year-old solid axle technology. (Love my 2022 Trailhawk.) Way back in 1951, the US military contracted Ford to improve on the original WWII jeep MB/GPW and Korean era M38A1. What Ford came up with was the M151 "MUTT". It was lighter, having a unibody and fully independent suspension on coil springs. Early models were unstable due to rear suspension geometry design error, which is why even though they saw more years of service than the original jeep, they are very rare today. The stability problems were fixed with the model M151A2. The main reason people stay with solid axles in Jeeps today is articulation... although, the military has long ago abandoned solid axles (Hummer, TAK4) without ill effects on performance.
What kind of milage would be needed to avoid this issue? If it had 450 miles like the Silverado, would it resolve that problem for you? Just curious, I've never been off-roading in a truck so I'm not sure how much of a limitation that would really be. In an ICE do you find yourself regularly needing to put gas in it while on the trails?
Great prototype! Hopefully they work on the motor being sooooo low! It’s going to get hit by rock and and uneven land many times if this goes on a trail
I love the idea of powerful Gladiators. But this definitely feels like a breakdown waiting to happen with that engine design. Really makes the case the Gladiator wouldve made a great hybrid w/ its V6. Maybe Magna can create that kind of drop in.
Eh, I would have eaten the drivetrain loss and run some motors right on the transfer case and not mounted 800,000lbs on the axles. That way you get the option of gear ratios, lift kits, factory lockers, the factory AWD transfer case option ect ect ect. But I'm not an engineer.
Jeep is again proving that EV adoption needn't be a revolution but an evolution. Many pundits criticized the Magneto as being inelegant with an electric motor basically supplanting the ICE one (same location, same drive train and a manual transmission). However, this design again shows that a modular solution can be an option for existing ICE users who later on want to transition to an EV. This train of thought is actually brilliant as it would alleviate the need to "scrap" perfectly good ICE vehicles just for the sake of EV implementation. If Magna or Jeep could offer a retrofit, like this claim of simply dropping in place using existing suspension and mounting points, it would let us keep our modded rigs and just upgrade to EV tech. No other manufacturer has thought about what to do with the ICE vehicles once the EV mandate takes effect. I like that Magna and Jeep are exploring this now, years ahead of 2035, to work out the kinks and see if drop in EV alternatives can become a reality. I, for one, would be extremely interested in converting my existing JLUR into a pure EV but don't necessarily want to spend the big $$ to do it. Make this motor swap reasonable and there's no reason why anyone wouldn't want to try it (that is once they get the whole motor protection thing out of the way with portal axles or more armor and lighter weight or more efficient batteries...).
They were supposedly making one but it’s been a long time since there’s been news on it. They’re not going to do a redesign any time soon so they might as well do that to keep it feeling fresh
@@colten53 Haven't heard much about the RAM 1500 REV electric truck lately, either, or the Wagoneer 4xe or Wagoneer S. Oh well, we'll see next year perhaps.
There is a reason Jeep is not slapping the 2.0L PHEV hybrid system into the Gladiator. Don't know what that reason is, but the Wrangler version is selling very well - you know Jeep would be cranking them out if that powertrain would work in the JT.
@@doublebackagain4311 Yes, we own a Rubicon 4xe and like it a lot! Both gas engine and battery could be larger, however. We are interested in future vehicles from Jeep and RAM, evolved.
Seen the vid . Have to incorporate both the engine and electric motor to be quite comfortable. Nne goes offroad 5 miles from home. You need the factor of knowing range is there. Gas and electric
True offroad vehicle can't have huge pumpkins with poor clearance. They need to use original diffs and move the motors to where they won't hurt clearance and add to unsprung weight. I doubt that jeep could get from Central City to Yankee Hill.
Is the motor mounted so low going to be a ground clearance issue? Will the motors survive being bashed by rocks? These are concerns I have. Otherwise it seems a superior off road drive train.
In some of their previous vids with Magna, the front and rear axles of the Dodge were the actual motors. Pretty cool tech, this is a Magna review, not a Jeep review fwiw. [grammar editing]
Ev car good. Ev truck bad. Electricity cant be stored in a jerry can. Trail heads are in the middle of nowhere sometimes i dont see them having chargers
You shouldn't have needed your break at all going down that hill. Put it in manual, 1st gear, and you'd crawl down that hill going the same speed or even slower than you were while in auto using the brakes... Next time y'all test the off-road capabilities of a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon or even a Wrangler Rubicon use manual 1st gear for hill decent. You won't even need to use crawl control. Keep your foot off the brake and watch that Jeep walk down that hill like it was flat!
Ford can't even unload all the Ford Lightening pickup's that people in TFL comment sections all said they had orders in for and how the Ford Lightening was going to out sell every pickup out there.
Electric should be superior for low speed crawling, as long as they can get the system tuned right. But those axle mounted motors are a terrible application for any real offroad use. Also adding hundreds of lbs to the unsprung weight. Get that thing on some washboard or similar and its gonna ride terrible. The rear is gonna be all over the place.
I challenge this electric rubicon gladiator against my stock diesel rubicon gladiator. Let’s see which goes the farthest off road and makes it back. No extra fuel, no extra charging. My point is that this is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. I guess you could load up a 10,000 kw Generator and the appropriate amount of fuel to charge the batteries, but overall this is just a pointless application of an electric vehicle.
Perhaps I missed it but did they mention if its getting a frunk? When it comes to EVs, if it has a front end space I expect it to have one. Its one of those features I feel are nessacary and expected when comparing EV trucks.
How about some coverage of the Fremantle Highway cargo ship fire that was impossible to put out since it involved evs. I know that you cover, not promote, electric cars and trucks, but how about having an expert on the potential safety issues involving these machines. Also, how about the insurance company's approach to coverage as more and more come on to the market. Thanks.
While we're doing that we can also talk about the 570,000 Hyundai-Kia 2019-2023 model year vehicles being recalled because their trailer hitch can cause a short and catch fire while parked. Or the 125000 2022 Ford ICE vehicles recalled for risk of catastrophic engine failure and fire risk? Or the severe risks associated with driving cars like the Fiero or Pinto. Let's go into the legal & environmental impact of the BP oil spill and Exxon Valdez while we're at it. These topics all seem like fun times and definitely in the spirit of enjoying cars and trucks.
@@markcoopers1930 Don't understand your point which is a review of past problems that can easily be researched. A picture of a ship still burning after a week, with the steel hull melted from the intense heat, and the resulting effect on all types of insurance for the future, seem more topical. It almost sounds like you've picked a side and might be trying to defend your choice by bringing in old news to water down a subject that will have a profound result on my future. This is why , as a confident individual, I choose no political party, no religion, or any of the other topics that the weak minded sheep who need other like minded people around them to feel comfortable. You can tell if you're a sheep when you follow, and not lead, even if you're all alone!
@@markcoopers1930 Fremantle Highway ship carrying thousands of vehicles, many electric vehicles, approx. 500. Have an adult read about it and explain it to you.
Here's my concern or question? As an off roader will this Gladiator be able to take on trails covered with deep snow and ice? Now what about taking these vehicles around the ocean and sand dunes? And finally taking these vehicles on muddy back roads and marshes? To me these vehicles will require better sealed systems and stronger batteries. Yanni
EV jeeps first and foremost do not hold up in high heat and consistency.Also jeeps in general are absolutely drunk junk. coming from a jeep technician. . They are definitely no Toyota When it comes to off road and durability and reliability
![Digital Circus Episode 4 [TRAILER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/abZtsmMUbJo/mqdefault.jpg)
Those motors hang way down, they are going to get bashed up on the trail. Magna needs to use a design, similar to the portal design on the Unimog, to put the motor on top of the axle so the bottom of the motors are flush with the bottom of the axle bar. They'll lose a bit of power (of which there's plenty) but it will be much easier to protect the motors.
Portals at $20k add electric for $20k and yea nobody is buying that
@@alexs825, you don't have to go full portals at the hubs, Magna just needs to add the gearing to the motor so the bottom is flush with the axle bar instead of being centered on it. That motor package, as it is, just hangs down way too low for a vehicle meant to be driven off-road.
That said, I don't really think mounting the motors on the axles is the way to go on a jeep conversion if the idea is to try and keep the ability to articulate like the original. It would be better to keep the original axles and just replace the ICE with an electric motor. Sure you'd lose some power going through the original axle gearing, but then it wouldn't effect the vehicle's off-road capability or your ability to modify the suspension. Additionally, you won't have the "unsprung weight" issue they have with the current design.
That was my concern looking at it. It looks like a giant soft aluminum housing. Its going to get trashed if you go rock crawling.
Maybe get a 2dr 2.0T willies jeep for the dirt and a kia EV6 GT as your daily driver.
portal wouldn't work for stock fitment as the motor/diff would be to high
I would totally buy one just as a daily driver, pending it’s on-road performance. I’m willing to bet it will be more expensive than the average person can afford though.
Probably will be more expensive but it doesn't have to be. Eliminating the cost of the engine, transmission and driceshafts probably offsets the costs of the EV drivetrain.
Haha, even without this EV stuff, a Gladiator Rubicon is still more expensive than the average person can afford.
For off road use, more “armored” protection for the low hanging motors is absolutely necessary, my differentials take a beating off road.
FINALLY!!!!!! I've been waiting for the Gladiator 4xe. I have a short daily commute and I love the extra storage of the Gladiator over Wrangler. Ooops, looks like a commented before watching the video first.
Great job asking about un-sprung weight, Andre. The engineer down-played it, but it’s really one of the biggest challenges they will need to deal with on a platform like this. Otherwise, I think it makes great sense.
That's being generous. He just glossed right over the unsprung weight question. If they want true off roaders to buy into electric they need to be open and honest about the compromises. I personnally own a Wrangler Rubicon 4xe and have dealt with a lot of people that discount 'electric' off roading until they experience it. Electric power is ideal for torque and control when off roading. I love the 4xe off road and can't wait for a true BEV off roader.
LOL The most important feature in a EV Jeep is obviously (The FIRE suppression system)
I think this is an awesome concept, I don’t think it will be popular with off roaders in its current form though. That battery is tiny for a vehicle as heavy and un-aerodynamic as it is. On the trail range is likely less than 60 miles, unless you can charge at the trail head, then make it back to the trail head to charge for the trip home. 1 mi/kWh or less is likely the on trail efficiency it will see, 1.8-2.5 would be my guess for street driving. Overall I am very excited and would personally love to own one.
Actually ev are way more efficient off road then on road vs a gas vehicle remember most of the fuel goes to idling where and ev doesn't need to idle it would be off at when at 0
@@lesstevens2370Actually, it depends on the type of off-roading you do. Uphill and rock crawling are going to use a lot of torque.
not really ill be out on the trails sometimes for days camping never going back to civilization during that time guess what the ev can't be charged and may catch fire so ev is not for me tbh.
@@zaccruise3306 Gas vehicles catch on fire 10x more than EVs 🤦♂ and as for charging, Rivian is looking to add chargers mid-trail. Since you don't need any infrastructure - just solar panels and a charger, EVs can be charged anywhere. No need for trucks carrying fuel to middle of nowhere.
I’ve taken my F-150 Lightning off road a few times and gotten 1.8-2.0 mi/kWh efficiency… most serious was wheeling in the off-road park for about 2.5 hours and used 10% of the battery (I have the smaller 98 kWh battery).
The biggest issue I see with this offroad is the same issue the Rivian has. There is no way to lock all four tires to the same speed. Even without diff lockers, a regular Jeep would lock the front and rear axles to the same speed. This makes things very predictable. This would be better that the Rivian in the fact that you can still have a diff lock. But you can still get into cases where the front and rear are turning at different speeds due to different amounts of load being applied.
The project of making a fully electric gladiator is very interesting. Now I have many questions, from what type of batteries, their duration, their efficiency. We, the Jeep fans, put larger wheels and tires and many questions.
I'd think one benefit with all electric is that you don't need a transfer case. You can still have a 4-Low mode, but it can be emulated electronically. As an off roader, I'd prefer a remote inverter. It may be fully weather sealed, but I wouldn't want to fully submerge it in water. It just doesn't feel right.
You still need gearing reduction offroad. Electric motors draw HUGE amounts of current at very low RPM. Also, one of the main reasons for low gearing is control. Trucks like the Rivian really suffer in this regard because they are very unpredictable offroad. The e-axle is certainly better for efficiency though.
@@Stuka87 The Rivian doesn't have a "low" range. If you remap the throttle pedal so full throttle is actually 1/4 throttle, you eliminate the jerkiness.
@@aaronbritt2025 Yes, but you still draw heaps of current because the motors are at a near stall. Low gearing would let them get into a higher RPM so that they would be more efficient.
This Electric Gladiator is interesting and intriguing. It seems to work ok and it appears they made the conversion with minimal changes and actual alterations to the Jeep chassis and body. My personal opinion is the e-axle adds a decent amount of weight to each axle set and it’s packaging space will impact both its off road and on highway and performance over the standard gas Gladiator.
The gas gladiator itself is a bit porky in weight. This electric conversion adds to that issue. However, that currently seems to be a required trade off for an battery electric vehicle at todays stage of technology.
Presently, I think I would prefer the current 4xe configuration offered on the wrangler over this configuration. It’s layout counts where it matters as far as ground clearance and overall axle sizing and total vehicle weights.
All jeeps are riddled with electric issues bc fiat is garbage then add an electric motor you're asking for a disaster 1980s jeeps are the most capable for a reason
I would be down if the axles were 8 lug capacity and it had a small diesel generator to recharge under the hood like the Edison motors truck.
Edison Motors has the right ideas!!!!
Great 1st test although if it's going to be fitted to a Jeep it has to be tested in a technical rock garden where multiple stops and starts are needed in order to get through.
If you're keeping stock suspension and brakes, but adding weight with the electronic components and batteries, wouldn't that cause excessive wear and tear to those stock components?
He does mention getting the suspension back to stock height due to the weight, so qt least stiffer springs on here. As for brakes, much less wear in EVs and hybrids that use regen.
Also impacts ground clearance it seems vs traditional diff
I wish that they would do a hybrid version in which all the electronic components are there, but it still has an engine only serving to charge the battery. I think this would be a slam dunk. Otherwise I don't see the viability of a fully electric vehicle on an authentic overlanding expedition without charging stations.
BMW i8 style, a tiny little engine to charge the battery.
That big "pumpkin" will limit offroad capability on the real trail, but its an awesome concept..
Electric portal axle maybe? 😈😈
There are electified pinzguaers.
Yes, combined with independent front and rear. Thats a fundamentally different vehicle than a wrangler though. Jeep has an all new off road Jeep coming out some day, maybe sell it with the Wrangler side by side.
I totally don't get it. What's the use case here? Do they expect OEMs to adopt this solution? like Jeep will start putting these in vehicles?
Magna already supplies parts and components for most vehicles you see on the road today. The point is that Jeep could use this solution for their Wrangler and/or Gladiator in the future. However, there is no word from Jeep about this yet.
@@TFLEV Magna also builds all gas-powered G Wagons. So it could be something used in the future if they build the electric one.
I like it. Driving in silence off road is very appealing. 🛻
Bring the extreme recon package to the gladiator!
This is why I’m a proud magna shareholder, they are will be part of the future.
The solid axle implementation here is not a great idea. The unsprung weight will be a huge problem over time, as will the vibration intensity on the components. The ground clearance is also way worse than a diff pumpkin for rock crawling. Cool prototype and concept, but I would prefer just going independent suspension.
Unsprung weight is a good thing offroad (minus desert racing). Its the reason people often find they get better traction after swapping out D44's for D60's. That extra weight improves weight, and lowers the center of gravity. Ground clearance is a downer though.
I think I agree, with independent you could also tuck that huge motor housing further up into the chassis and protect it with skid plates.
Big Question mark , will it be able to flat tow behind an RV. Otherwise great , we have two electric vehicles and a Gas Rubicon
I'm wondering about that too. I have the Jeep Wrangler 4xE and it can absolutely be flat towed. Not sure about this one though.
Kill two birds with one stone - leave it on while dinghy towing it and charge the battery at the same time!
@@natehill8069don’t think regen braking works in neutral
@@J.Young808 It doesnt, it would have to be in forward. I wasnt seriously suggesting it be pulled in gear with no one in it. But it would be neat to be in it while being towed and set it up for max regen. Seems like I saw a video of someone towing a Tesla several years ago to see how well it could recharge that way.
What is the charge rate? I'm hoping it is better than the 4XE. Also, is the charger an MPPT with PV input? If so, what is the voltage, and watt input minimum and max? Oh, and is the battery LiFePo4? Regardless of chemistry, will it be expandable without me having to red neck it for expansion? Because, I can and would actually. And if you haven't any of these features, and future customizations, then please look at doing it in the future. For the instant cult following you would get.
I would want the drive unit to replace the engine/transmission/transfercase powertrain and leave the axles/suspension stock
One motor/diff/controller centrally located would be perfect offroad tucked up between the frame rails and plenty of room for batteries in the engine bay and gas tank bay
2 low slung motors and 4 second 0-60 is not what you need offroad
While I’m not in love with the idea to concentrate electrification efforts on bigger vehicles (because of the amount of material necessary to build the batteries), I appreciate how data is collected and how the R&D can lead us towards the right path. But please, carmakers: make EVs affordable. Electrification should be for everyone, not just a small portion of wealthy folks.
New technology always starts out expensive. Remember CRTs? Now it's flat panels everywhere. It takes time to scale up and drive down costs.
@@jghall00 What I mean by that is all the bells and whistles carmakers feel the need to add to the cars. Take the Ariya, for example. Do you really need an electric center console? Mach-E: do you really need to reinvent door handles? Just bring the costs down. Chevy Bolt is a good example: affordable for at least the middle class. Now, electrifying bigger cars, I’m all for it. But consumers need smaller and more affordable options
@@jaybou007 The challenge is that the manufacturers have difficulty making a profit on smaller vehicles until they achieve scale. That's why they all start with expensive vehicles. Tesla was the first to get there, but GM Ford, and Kia are ramping up their investment in battery plants and will attain lower costs in the future.
Andre did they let you look under the hood? Where was the battery mounted?
I wish they had the Gladiator 4xe (plug-in hybrid) on the market now. BEV is a tough one as battery tech will continue to advance over the next few years, plus if you run out of juice away from chargers, what do you do?
I always thought the best setup for a rock crawler would be in hub motors. Rock crawlers don’t care as much about unsprung weight (especially when sporting 40” tires). It puts the weight of the vehicle at the point of contact on the wheels. It allows for a multitude of torque vectoring options and would allow for super tight turning radius because you wouldn’t have to worry about axles. Ground clearance can be amazing because the drive train is in the wheel. They would need to prove themselves in mud/ice/water exposure but Elaphe has done that. Come on Jeep! Try it! Let’s see if it’s better!
inspiring weight, you have to love spellchecker.
@@jeffk464 ha ha! Yeah spell checker. Gotta love it.
Inverter and motor on the axle on an off roader doesn't sound like a robust idea. Interesting idea, maybe better suited to an on road car
They need to sell the rear electric axle kit with a small battery so I can swap it into an old single cab short bed c1500. Street truck look baby
This could be a game changer!
So when your on a trip 2 or 300 miles and off roadng all day will i find a charger on the trails ??
A powerful hybrid is the answer.
I am all for electric. I really hope the market takes off and the tech gets better. My biggest complaint is range, and infrastructure for charging. And for off roading like what are they going to do? Put charging stations all over Moab and the rubicon. What about all the other trails across North America? And durability. Jeeps are so popular for off road vehicles because of their simplicity and durability. If that rear diff gets slammed down on a rock is it going to hold up? Right now electric is great in the city. I would recommend it all the time. If all you need a vehicle to commute to work. Pick up food or do a little shopping. 100% electric is the way to go. But for off road and long trips? The infrastructure is not there. Specially in Canada where I live. The range is not there and the reliability and strength is not there.
I can agree and disagree at the same time. Range is less of a complaint after owning an EV. I though it was all about range, and after 34k miles in a year, it is all in charging speed for me. Now, I do say for me, and I think this will apply to many more as well. I travel for work and my vehicle is my office most of the time. Having a range over 250 miles is enough most of the time, but not always. Having the ability to bring it back to 80% in around 15-20 minutes, not that is where it is key. Even if driving for a full 8 hours in a day, which I have exceeded many times, but I am considering an 8 hr work day. Average speed of 60 miles per hour for east math gives you a max range somewhere around 420 miles. Now that would also be a day of getting no work and just traveling. You can do that easily starting with a charge and having 1 stop to charge, most likely could be around lunch for 15, 20 or even 30 minutes would work for many. Now infrastructure, this is key and much more is needed. It cannot be built overnight which is why it will get better in time. Thing is it needs to outpace the adoption of EV’s to be as successful as possible, which is certainly not necessarily the case currently. Granted, my pain has been less than it would be for you in Canada I would assume, as well as more open areas of the US. I am based on the east coast where charging is a bit more prevalent. Is it great, not by any means, but it has been usable. I traveled up and down the coast over the past year and even the existing infrastructure needs help, improvements and expansion. It will only get worst as more and more EV’s hit the road without proper investment in the infrastructure. Charge times are key to keep everyone moving. More range while it would be nice usually requires a bigger battery which will only extend charging times. As the technology gets better, charge times and battery capacity/range will improve. This improvements only come from R&D dollars being spent due to a viable money making need for the manufacturing companies to fill. In the short term we will have some growing pains. It will seem long as our society these days is so use to immediate gratification. All in good time.
It looks like they did a ton of work and engineering to get this done. I like how they can preserve the looks of the vehicle but I believe there is one major drawback. That rear axle motor/drive unit does not appear to have a lot of ground clearance.
Great experiment, but the ground clearance needs to be higher with a skid plate needed.
I'm not a fan of the un-sprung weight of motor/diff/axle combo. I've owned solid axle Wranglers and independent suspension Grand Cherokees, and I won't ever go back to 100-year-old solid axle technology. (Love my 2022 Trailhawk.) Way back in 1951, the US military contracted Ford to improve on the original WWII jeep MB/GPW and Korean era M38A1. What Ford came up with was the M151 "MUTT". It was lighter, having a unibody and fully independent suspension on coil springs. Early models were unstable due to rear suspension geometry design error, which is why even though they saw more years of service than the original jeep, they are very rare today. The stability problems were fixed with the model M151A2. The main reason people stay with solid axles in Jeeps today is articulation... although, the military has long ago abandoned solid axles (Hummer, TAK4) without ill effects on performance.
It would be a nice setup combined with a portal axle but kipping the same axle length, the location of the motor seems too low.
Looks awesome! ❤
The range when rock crawling of the electric one would not be feasible. Once solid state batteries come out, I think this will be a good idea...
How far do you rock crawl? At 5pmh you don't need much range. You aren't fighting air resistence. You aren't using energy when you are not moving.
What kind of milage would be needed to avoid this issue? If it had 450 miles like the Silverado, would it resolve that problem for you? Just curious, I've never been off-roading in a truck so I'm not sure how much of a limitation that would really be. In an ICE do you find yourself regularly needing to put gas in it while on the trails?
Also you regen every time you would let off the accelerator in low range.
@@EVPulse Is there a study into this? At the super slow speeds of rock crawling I'm not sure how much regen is actually possible.
@@Gray_Falcon Well there kind of has been studies. People are talking about how far they can go off road in the 4xe in EV only mode. Its not very far.
I love this concept, wish I could drop it in my Gladiator right now! That would be perfect for me.
Great prototype! Hopefully they work on the motor being sooooo low! It’s going to get hit by rock and and uneven land many times if this goes on a trail
Bash that off a big rock and see what happens. And it cuts into your ground clearance.
I love the idea of powerful Gladiators. But this definitely feels like a breakdown waiting to happen with that engine design.
Really makes the case the Gladiator wouldve made a great hybrid w/ its V6.
Maybe Magna can create that kind of drop in.
Eh, I would have eaten the drivetrain loss and run some motors right on the transfer case and not mounted 800,000lbs on the axles. That way you get the option of gear ratios, lift kits, factory lockers, the factory AWD transfer case option ect ect ect. But I'm not an engineer.
Jeep is again proving that EV adoption needn't be a revolution but an evolution. Many pundits criticized the Magneto as being inelegant with an electric motor basically supplanting the ICE one (same location, same drive train and a manual transmission). However, this design again shows that a modular solution can be an option for existing ICE users who later on want to transition to an EV. This train of thought is actually brilliant as it would alleviate the need to "scrap" perfectly good ICE vehicles just for the sake of EV implementation.
If Magna or Jeep could offer a retrofit, like this claim of simply dropping in place using existing suspension and mounting points, it would let us keep our modded rigs and just upgrade to EV tech. No other manufacturer has thought about what to do with the ICE vehicles once the EV mandate takes effect. I like that Magna and Jeep are exploring this now, years ahead of 2035, to work out the kinks and see if drop in EV alternatives can become a reality.
I, for one, would be extremely interested in converting my existing JLUR into a pure EV but don't necessarily want to spend the big $$ to do it. Make this motor swap reasonable and there's no reason why anyone wouldn't want to try it (that is once they get the whole motor protection thing out of the way with portal axles or more armor and lighter weight or more efficient batteries...).
Wonder if Stellantis will ever make a Gladiator 4xe (PHEV), do you think? Maybe not.
They were supposedly making one but it’s been a long time since there’s been news on it. They’re not going to do a redesign any time soon so they might as well do that to keep it feeling fresh
@@colten53 Haven't heard much about the RAM 1500 REV electric truck lately, either, or the Wagoneer 4xe or Wagoneer S. Oh well, we'll see next year perhaps.
There is a reason Jeep is not slapping the 2.0L PHEV hybrid system into the Gladiator. Don't know what that reason is, but the Wrangler version is selling very well - you know Jeep would be cranking them out if that powertrain would work in the JT.
@@doublebackagain4311 Yes, we own a Rubicon 4xe and like it a lot! Both gas engine and battery could be larger, however. We are interested in future vehicles from Jeep and RAM, evolved.
Just watching this video it seems ground clearance will be an issue with a solid axle. It should be Independant or portals to raise the motors .
Dude the electric version. I'll buy it!!!!
I hope Magna develops a kit for the Toyota Sequoia.
Nice concept. Needs portal axles.
Is there a frunk? I love my Rivian but this is pretty cool.
Seen the vid .
Have to incorporate both the engine and electric motor to be quite comfortable.
Nne goes offroad 5 miles from home.
You need the factor of knowing range is there.
Gas and electric
Does it have a frunk?
37s make all the sense on a E-Gladiator offroad
Tell me they’re going to market that system as a bolt in to the public
True offroad vehicle can't have huge pumpkins with poor clearance. They need to use original diffs and move the motors to where they won't hurt clearance and add to unsprung weight. I doubt that jeep could get from Central City to Yankee Hill.
Is the motor mounted so low going to be a ground clearance issue?
Will the motors survive being bashed by rocks? These are concerns I have.
Otherwise it seems a superior off road drive train.
In some of their previous vids with Magna, the front and rear axles of the Dodge were the actual motors. Pretty cool tech, this is a Magna review, not a Jeep review fwiw. [grammar editing]
That’s a lot of unsprung weight
Love it! I want one…
Keep it wouldn't pay a dime for any electric vehicle
Motors have almost no protection. Hope they figure that out.
Ev car good. Ev truck bad. Electricity cant be stored in a jerry can. Trail heads are in the middle of nowhere sometimes i dont see them having chargers
whats the range
Very good car
Afternoon mate
Electric vehicles are a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.
Diesel
Smaller motors would make sense here…. Don’t need 500 HP
You shouldn't have needed your break at all going down that hill.
Put it in manual, 1st gear, and you'd crawl down that hill going the same speed or even slower than you were while in auto using the brakes...
Next time y'all test the off-road capabilities of a Jeep Gladiator Rubicon or even a Wrangler Rubicon use manual 1st gear for hill decent. You won't even need to use crawl control. Keep your foot off the brake and watch that Jeep walk down that hill like it was flat!
Ford can't even unload all the Ford Lightening pickup's that people in TFL comment sections all said they had orders in for and how the Ford Lightening was going to out sell every pickup out there.
didnt seem all that great to me tbh but cool concept
The problem with Jeeps at the moment is price. If an EV Gladiator clocks in at over $100k I have better ways to spend my money.
Holy unsprung weight Batman!
He said it's only an extra 60 lbs.? It looks heavier than that
Haven't seen David in awhile
The rear differential is WAY LOW. This will not fare well offroading, especially over rocks
Should we have a moment of silence for the camera at 4:43? Looks like it took a good punch to the face
Where’s Nathan? Haven’t seen him in a while, hope all is well.
He just did a video on a new Volvo a few days ago.
Didn’t like the EV. Suspension looked to low, no manual lever to switch from 2 wheel drive to 4 wheel drive and what’s the range between charge.
Electric should be superior for low speed crawling, as long as they can get the system tuned right. But those axle mounted motors are a terrible application for any real offroad use. Also adding hundreds of lbs to the unsprung weight. Get that thing on some washboard or similar and its gonna ride terrible. The rear is gonna be all over the place.
I challenge this electric rubicon gladiator against my stock diesel rubicon gladiator. Let’s see which goes the farthest off road and makes it back. No extra fuel, no extra charging. My point is that this is a solution to a problem that doesn’t exist. I guess you could load up a 10,000 kw Generator and the appropriate amount of fuel to charge the batteries, but overall this is just a pointless application of an electric vehicle.
that rear diff/electric motor is hanging way too low.
Cool!
How much???
Perhaps I missed it but did they mention if its getting a frunk? When it comes to EVs, if it has a front end space I expect it to have one. Its one of those features I feel are nessacary and expected when comparing EV trucks.
Andre…. It’s “Nev-AD-a,” not “Nev-AH-da.”
EV's kick ass
I don't hate EV.I rather reckon EV for city uses.
But EV jeep truck,.. hell no.
My gladiator can travel off-grid for over 1,000 miles. There's no EV in the world that can do that.
How about some coverage of the Fremantle Highway cargo ship fire that was impossible to put out since it involved evs. I know that you cover, not promote, electric cars and trucks, but how about having an expert on the potential safety issues involving these machines. Also, how about the insurance company's approach to coverage as more and more come on to the market. Thanks.
While we're doing that we can also talk about the 570,000 Hyundai-Kia 2019-2023 model year vehicles being recalled because their trailer hitch can cause a short and catch fire while parked. Or the 125000 2022 Ford ICE vehicles recalled for risk of catastrophic engine failure and fire risk? Or the severe risks associated with driving cars like the Fiero or Pinto.
Let's go into the legal & environmental impact of the BP oil spill and Exxon Valdez while we're at it. These topics all seem like fun times and definitely in the spirit of enjoying cars and trucks.
@@markcoopers1930 Don't understand your point which is a review of past problems that can easily be researched. A picture of a ship still burning after a week, with the steel hull melted from the intense heat, and the resulting effect on all types of insurance for the future, seem more topical. It almost sounds like you've picked a side and might be trying to defend your choice by bringing in old news to water down a subject that will have a profound result on my future. This is why , as a confident individual, I choose no political party, no religion, or any of the other topics that the weak minded sheep who need other like minded people around them to feel comfortable. You can tell if you're a sheep when you follow, and not lead, even if you're all alone!
@@atvseatexchange2176 Why bring up a shipping fire on a car review? Sounds like an attack on the opposing side for no reason. Screams of confidence.
@@markcoopers1930 Fremantle Highway ship carrying thousands of vehicles, many electric vehicles, approx. 500. Have an adult read about it and explain it to you.
😮 Take. My. Money. (And a little government money too)
The government does not have any money.
This implementation seems like a mess, not sure why they are keeping stock brakes with no regen. Disappointing all around.
Do the gas vs diesel... oh... hold on everyone knows the diesel. Will destroy the gas hahaha😂😂😂😂 no worries.
That ugly ass diff like come on man 😂😂😂 just make them with base v8, diesel or a better v6 engine option 🙃
That looks like a lot of unsprung weight.
Here's my concern or question? As an off roader will this Gladiator be able to take on trails covered with deep snow and ice? Now what about taking these vehicles around the ocean and sand dunes? And finally taking these vehicles on muddy back roads and marshes? To me these vehicles will require better sealed systems and stronger batteries. Yanni
A ev is not better offroad low gearing and bigger tires and ground clearance and lockers and skill is all you need to go most places.
Id be afraid to cross any water with all those expensive electronics
Stupid ideas anyway, what we need is 392
I wonder how much jarring those unsprung motors can take?
I really don't care if the ev jeep is better. I am NOT spending 30+ minutes of my day to charge it bruh
EV jeeps first and foremost do not hold up in high heat and consistency.Also jeeps in general are absolutely drunk junk. coming from a jeep technician. . They are definitely no Toyota When it comes to off road and durability and reliability