Time to Ditch That 4x12 Cabinet
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
- I give 5 reasons why you shouldn't be using a 4x12 cabinet anymore, but instead replacing it with a 2x12.
Of course, you'll need a stand for that 2x12. Here's some suggestions below. Make sure they meet your weight requirements with the cabinet and the amp.
OnStage RS7500 - amzn.to/2YxENQJ
OnStage RS7501 - amzn.to/2Vpo7bW
I literally see people get excited by my 4x12 coming into the venue in a time when everything is minimized. We're still cavemen at heart, go big
exited? or scared lol
@@pugforce8315 he said excited 🤦♂
Absolutely.
@@pugforce8315both is good
💯💯💯
Cause standing in front of 3 4x12 full stacks makes u look cool as fuck
Haha your pfp is John!
No question, but 2 has done alright by me for about about 40 years now
Best sound I ever had was a full stack 812. No way I'm giving up my 412, OMDB. Lol.
Good luck trying to play shows then. No sound guy will let you play.
just get dummy cabs 👍
I watched this entire video and I still want my 4x12.
Same bro!!!
Yeah I love my 4x12
4×12 all the way for me
Yeah. Fuck that. You lose low end with 4x12. Even my guitar friends that have had 2x12 always went back to 4x12's .
Same. I have a recto 412 and recently bought a recto 212. Music is all about feel for me so the 212 is going back.
The 412 pushes more air and resonates too well to ever put a 212 in the same sonic ballpark.
As for the weight, I have arthritis in my back and still use Les Pauls and a solid birch oversized 412 cab and I've never once complained about the weight.
Just ONE thing you're missing here: INSPIRATION. When I'm wailing on Blues at home in my studio, there is NOTHING like a massive wall of sound inspiring me to play my heart out.
sorry but.... HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAHAH
I have this too
It’s about bass response and the dynamics, every cab has a different sound man, a 4x12 definitely sounds fuller
Correct!
Ah ,so the 412 has more bottom end yeah? Is that a significant amount more would you say? Thanks.
Mark R really depends on the cabs, there are some really nice 2x12s that have a full sound, but in my experience a 412 probably probably about 25% more bottom end
@@jahanwatson2423 Great, thank you!
PS. do you know which of the Marshall cabs have best speakers for bottom end ,412 or 212? I don't know much about differences in dynamics from Greenbacks to Celestion's or whatever else is available. Looking for good low end 412 cab. Thanks again.
Watching this video as I'm on the way to pick up my second 4x12
I gave up after the red frilled shirt.
Watching this video after picking up a full stack 😅
@@gregcoomer1775 Lol.....them were the days!
Just got my full stack setup today while watching this haha!!
Me too! I got a Van Halen tribute band, so I want all the cabs. Gotta have cabs on stage to play Van Halen. 🤘🏻😝🎸🇺🇸
0:33. Video stopped, thanks for the heads up. Have a great day!
Haha thats funny as hell
Wish more videos would do this
I’ve always had issues with sound dispersion, cause I guess I’m one of the few guitarists that doesn’t want to crank up. This video actually made me want a 4x12. Thanks! 🤣
Plot twist: he is a bassist.
Shit, you're on to me
@@ManBunMetalHead 😂🤣
8x10 goes brrrrrrrrrr
Ha ha
Wanna like but I dont wanna mess up the 69 likes
I thought the same thing so I built 2 - 2 x12 cabinets. And then I sold off the 5 - 4 x 12 cabinets that I had. I've been regretting it for a long time so I decided to build a
4 x 12. Nothing beats a wall of sound. 2 x 12's are good but they, in no way replace a 4 x 12. In my humble opinion 4 x 12 is the way to go.
As a harmonica player, I just wish more guitarist would keep their guitars in tune.
Especially Bedroom Gibson Strummers on RUclips
@@g.koch. But I just tuned it 5 minutes ago, how is the g string already out of tune
Actually, the best sound is always two 1960B cabs side by side. The harmonics and clarity is insane, and it even means I can turn down my master vol and I still hear myself better
But...we jus look sooo cool standing in front of a 4x12 on stage
Just get a vertical 2x12 then lol
@@seanathonhooper Not even half as cool!
You must be a pussy if you play with only one 4x12...
There's dummy/empty 4×12 cabs you can get with no speakers in them. Or just buy a cheap cabinet, yank the speakers out, put some fake cones in there for visual effect. You'd be surprised how many rock bands do that - just hook the amp up to some dinky little 1×12 cab hidden somewhere the audience can't see it, mic that up to go into the PA, put the amp on an empty or dummy-loaded 412 for visual effect.
@@josepcla That was my thought also.
4x12s have a more fuller sound. If a 2x12 had the same amount of resonance, then I might consider it.
Everyone know a cabinet with 12, 2 inch speakers is the way to go 12X2 FTW
Fk yeah, nothing beats two 12x2 stacks!
#tweeterlife
Unless you're playing arenas. Then you GOTTA have that full 48x2 stack.
At 2 ohms. 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
4x12 days are over. I'm in my late 50's and don't need to carry a 4x12. I bought a Marshall 2536 2x12,it's the Silver Jubilee cab, 2 Vintage 30's, made of Birch Plywood, it's huge but not huge enough that i can't carry it and fit it into my trunk of my car. I could not get a 4x12 in the trunk of my car let alone lift it into the trunk without F-ing up my back. But this 2536 cabinet has lots of balls and low end. . And who ever you play out to live will NEVER notice the difference. Audiences have no clue. All they want it to have fun and drink.
You already gave up?
No. lol. To each their own. You're correct about the volume issue. But, I have never played a 2x12 that has the same feel as a 4x12. They're just pushing more air. The Orange PPC212 gets close but still not quite the same.
Agreed. I'm not trying to convince everyone to switch to a 2x12 but rather let them know it is a viable option.
@@ManBunMetalHead well... then why the video title is "Time to ditch that 4x12 cabinet" and not "4x12 cabinet alternatives" ?:)))
@@timishormusic5526 Click bait. Even the best of em have to do it nowadays
@@JB-xz6dt yeah:))
I had a orange 212 and it was not close to a 412 it actually didn't even sound as good running it with a 412 then by it self.
This dude with a man bun is sole reason I went out to buy two 4×12 240w cabinets, 1992 peavey 5150 120w amp, Orange Rockerverb mkiii III 100, Orange Super Crush 100watt.
😂😂😂
I love my 4x12. I’ll never give her up. I’ll ADD a 2x12 with unique voicing to my rig so I’ll have the option for whatever suits my mood. Shoot, I have 11 acres and I’m going to enjoy cranking my rig up to 11 in the barn whenever I want to without being sorry.
Having a lot of power on acreage is my favorite memory as a teenager. 5.5 acres here in California. Blasting away in the barn. Fcken loved it!!!
2 months ago I did a deep spring cleaning and sold a boatload of my guitar gear that I don't use much. As a matter of fact one of those items was my Peavey 6505 412 cab. I was glad to regain the space in my man-cave. Just the other day I see an almost new AMPEG 412 cab for sale and it really tempted me to buy it. THANK YOU for reminding me why I sold my previous 412 cab in the first place!! ... My wife thanks you too :)
I absolutely agree, i used to use an Orange 4x12 and an Orange OR30, but after a while i got tired of all these issues. Now i use a Harley Benton vertical 2x12 with vintage 30s and an Orange CR120 head, and it saved my back, and my bandmates haven't complained about anything.
Watched it and bought a Marshall 1960 412 cab, no regrets.
I ditched my 412 for a sealed 112. I angle it back in front of me like a monitor. The sound man is happy, the band is happy and the audience is happy. I can hear as much or as little of it as I want by reaching down and twisting the volume without affecting anyone else. Our mix has never been cleaner and is still earth shakingly heavy. Just proves you don't need a heavy amp to have a heavy sound.
link me your 112.. thanks
🤪
Bollocks
When he said the Marshall 2x12 rectifier cabinet i knew i was wasting my time here thank you have a good day!
So you’ve never misspoken?
@@cardbored_ you never laugh? 🤪
The thing about it is, even tho the power is evenly distributed, because of the number of speakers the sound coming out the two cabs are remarkably different. The 4x12 delivers a better QUALITY of sound than the 2x12. 🙂
I have a thought for those who own a 4x12... remove the two lower speakers in a 4x12 and keep them as backups, screw in some thin ply wood inside to cover the 2 speaker holes and now you a lighter and still cool looking angled but larger 2x12 and you don't need to buy an angled cab stand.
I played with a guitarist who had 2 Mesa 2x12s. So easy to moderate angle and volume. During gigs, he'd have one between him and the drummer and the other at the other end of the stage. He bought them for $200 each in almost new condition.
Good advice
Damn, that is a good idea.
Damn a Mesa 2x12 for 200$?
*grabs mask* I’m gonna have to go “buy one”
We used to put one of my 412s on my side and the other on the Bass player's side. He had one 215 on my side and one on his. Best sound we ever had. And we both were barely in the mix in the FOH by mic, sometimes not at all.... because we didn't need to be. There's more than one way to mix a room and balanced sound coming off that stage is like a foundation. You cannot build your sound entirely through the FOH, imo, It's weak sauce and usually when done that way it's way too much kick drum and way too much Bass player and everything suffers. Or it's a wimpy mix that feels like a lounge act, lol.
@@autk 1000% agree
I've been using 2x12's for years and finally decided to give a 4x12 a go with my JVM 410 and I gotta say, I was shocked by 2 things. The first is how much the volume didn't really change all that much. The second, is how much better the 4x12 sounded in the room. I'm not a metal guy, I play anything from blues to rock even some Jazz. The 4x12 simply sounded full and 3 dimensional. Going back to my 2x12, and this is a quality oversize 2x12 with carefully chosen speakers that I've been happy with over several years after trying a bunch, it sounded boxy. That's the only way I can describe it. The sound didn't breathe as well and also sounded thin as a result.
There's only one reason for large cabinets and double stacked heads... to quote Les Paul, "People listen with their eyes."
I just switched back to a 4x12 after using a 1x12 for a while and then a 2x12. Used same amp and same location. The 4x12 sounds so much better!
4x12 cabs sound better than 2x12 cabs. Don't believe me? Mic up one of each and listen. I'll wait.
So valid! Its more about quality of sound versus the mundane and overly subjective points of view from this video. I dislike this video for it's purely opinionated "tips" rooted in speculatory garble
@Foxbody Boogie Yeah, everything other than a 2X12 sounds amazing. You're just making a vague statement to be contrary.
How much better? 2%? 8.5%? there are so many factors that come in to play that you're vague statement holds no weight. He got in to things that had nothing to do with sound. You can get a 2X12 to sound amazing. There are people that can make a pignose sound great.
@@Mr_phil_80 Oh god. Mr encyclopedia. Overly judgmental internet nerds gettin triggered XD
@Dirtypussy Tornadokick 15 def is an underrated guitar speaker. I do love my 2x12 though , play through that most of the time. I also love my 1960a cab but I kinda hate speakers pointing right at my head unless it's a gig or practice / jam situation and I can't hear anything. Then it's a life saver!
You're totally right, Man Bun! I ditched the 4x12 years ago! I've gone with 2x12 cabs and combos since the early 2000's. Not only did it help my back and wallet, I have more space! At home I rock a Laney 212, Katana artist running through my 212 Tone Tubby cab or my blackstar for desk practice.
What you said makes sense. I have lugged a 412 with a head for many years. I found a set of ADA 212's with celestions that sound great on stage and MUCH easier to carry. But, the wall in the studio is still full of 412's, so when some sterilization is needed anyone can plug in and melt. But they don't move anymore...
This aint about what i need, its about what i want.. i love overkill, always have.. NEVER getting rid of my 4×12s. Ive been playing longer than this guy has been alive.
One of the best compromises might be the vertical 2x12. They're relatively hard to find but I've usually seen them as having an angled top speaking, like a half 1960A cab. More manufacturers should get behind that form factor.
I have a Marshall 1936 & just bought a 1960a & retuned it. I don't like the angle cabinet. all you hear is the bass. The rest sounds compressed not as open as my 2x12.
hard to find? mesa and marshall are selling vertical 212 with slanted options right now
@@lightninginmyhands4878 Those slanted cabs don't sound good very different than a horizontal one.
@@guitarexpert2245 what's your experience? does it involve gigging?
@@lightninginmyhands4878 yes, they are just different a B cab is thicker deeper more punch feels like. Take a look at Marshall's website on any of their 196a/b cabs it will tell you the same thing. And it's really true. But everyone is different I suppose
I use a 2 x 12 with my heart with Marshall and I'm very satisfied with it actually I think that you're right at the angle you'll get the same sound and actually the other two will go up towards the ceiling with a 4 table and everybody will be annoyed I'm glad I saw your video I think it's very informative and I think people should probably buy a stand like that that's a great idea
Problem is most dive bars and gigs aint gonna run guitar through the PA haha good luck gettin heavy with that 2x12, wish it were possible
My experience has been the exact opposite, every dive bar I have ever been to runs me through the PA (even when we had 5 vocal mics).
@@nu11hed damn! Shit i wish we got that treatmeant, of course i aint really done a show since 2015 so maybe the old bars now can handle it.
@@nu11hed shit we used to play bars where we had to bring our own shitty PA haha
I convinced a bro to go half cab or "1/4" stack by running my Laney Loudpedal through only two speakers on his Blackstar 4x12. Thank you for making this video. I myself am putting together a Jekyll and Hyde style rig with both a Laney DualTop head and the Loudpedal. Myths need to be debunked
I've used a 2x12 Mesa Road King cab that was physically heavier, as well as better sounding then most 4x12 cabs. food for thought.
Not a hater. I think whatever setup works for a musician is fine, regardless of what people think.
My situation: Had a 160 watt peavey special 112 (basically a bandit with twice the power) i got for $40. Speaker was damaged. Sold the enclosure for $30. I converted the amp to a head. Bought a used 4x12 for $90 and the improvement on tone for that pairing is truly remarkable. Closed back 4x12 focused and cleaned up my gain channel in profound ways. 2x12's are great...but they're currently trendy, so expensive. I'm glad people are offloading 4x12's now, because it gave me a gig-worthy rig for an even $100.
Videos like this are really all good though, because people have to consider the pros and cons of their gear decisions, and you make solid points.
The age-old argument, "You will mic it anyway" or "it's lighter". If that's the case, you might as well just run straight to PA from a Helix with zero amps. It's all about air movement.
That's what I say when I cook up some of my diablo chili. First it's about the taste and then later it's about the air movement.
@@Swampster70 Lmfao
My Marshall 2536 cabinet has plenty of air movement. Check it out. It's huge, made of Birch but not too huge to put in a trunk of a car or carry by one self. Again, an audience will NEVER know the difference. They just want to have a good time and drink. And that's just a fact.
@@Swampster70 OMG and hair movement !!!!!Hi mr Swampster, Im a Finnish guitarist of 54 in October, and just ended up on this comp page of speakers/writers,,,theres a 4x12 cab new for sale at Thomann web store for 200€s, Kustom brand,wheels n all so very tempting? I was thinking , 50€s per speaker, not bad, THEN /now im thinking, I bought from T a 100W Kustom amp for 200€s, are they baad quality..., time ll tell of course..., even Alber tLee talked about 4 x 10 cabinets, not 12s....., omg Im a slow one on some things: my lets say grnd ma once said about my earring: musicians have them to hear better.....she understood me better than my parents ...LOVE without Cabinets, only combos, and bands, Kimmo : )
I think the type of speaker really plays a part in how it sounds, so micing a particular speaker will sound different than simply playing direct into the PA.
I got 3 4x12 cabs after seeing this video because people listened to you and I got a good deal on them. So thanks!!!!
2 2x12's is what I actually want, stereo spread is ideal live and you don't need to crank up your amp nearly as much
I am getting back into playing. I need something that is loud enough to play in a band if I decide to get into one, but still work as a practice amp. I got a large 1x12 cab with a g12h-100 in it and am ordering a 50w JCM 900 1x12 combo to sit on top of it. You basically just said what I was thinking anyway. The ease of transporting this setup made it a no brainer.
I carry my full stack jcm800 all at the same time. Gets me pumped. 4x10 eminence loaded in each hand. Amp goes in my backpack.
Proof we need to see it!
*_I just played a sold out show at Wembley Stadium with my djent-metal band using only a Fender Frontman 10G. The show got shut down because we apparently broke the sound ordinance law for being too loud. The sound guy even removed the mic to my Frontman and just let the amp blast into the crowd, but it was still too much power. Nothing we could do._*
You should explain this to bassists as well... I've been telling these dudes who show up with fridge cabinets, and they ostracize me. I mean, if the venue is big enough to justify having a huge bass rig, you're running into a PA. If it's smaller and you're not running into a PA, your rig is overkill. Your rig should fit what you want for stage volume, but not bleed into every mic on the stage.
Set the mic gains accordingly and you won't have that problem. I never do.
@@TempoDrift1480 when on small stages, where most musicians play, mix placement means nothing when the bass is overwhelming the stage, which is why a fridge is a horrible idea for amass cabinet. As for guitar, why lug around a 4x12, when a 1x12 or 2x12 will do the same thing?
@@wswartz79 They don't do the same thing though. I've been a sound guy for many years. The difference in sound quality between a combo amp vs 212 vs 412 is obvious, and 412 cabinets always sound more full, with superior low end which means better tone regardless of volume. For small rooms, I'd love when guitar players show up with stacks because that meant I didn't need to put them through the PA hardly at all. Vocals are clear as a bell when that's the case.
The alternative is to put two 12-inch speakers in a 4x12 cabinet and leave the two empty holes making a detuned cabinet. It will be just as loud as a 4x12, look and sound cool. It will be heavier than a 2x12 cab but much lighter than a 4x12 with 4 speakers.
2x12 looks good on paper but in the real world, the 4x12 wins. The only downside is the weight but beyond that it's superior in every way. It's not so much heard... but felt. Plus you don't need finicky stands. It puts your amp head at the perfect height.
What about price and the fact that it takes up a lot of space in your car?
But yes the 4x12 has a bassier sound.
I agree completely. I've been struggling with a 2x12 during rehearsals for a year, and finally picked up a 4x12. It's a huge difference in tone, thickness,and being able to cut through the sound. And yeah, it's heavier, but that what taking care of yourself and lifting weights is for. Strength is not an issue when you train for it. lol
I have a 4x12. 😂 It's being played in an 8'x10 room. 🤣 it's ridiculous. Not necessary, but it's aesthetically pleasing to the eye.😂
After our last gig this past weekend, I decided to downgrade my 4x12 to a 2x12.
I did want a Vertical 2x12 though because I felt it would take up less side space and we all know some venues can be extremely limited on space!
My first cab was an orange 412. because my 30 watts amp was so damn loud, and the damn thing was so heavy, I traded it for the orange 212. I just could never get used to it: the volume is indeed identical, but the sound of the 412 is just way fuller. the 212 just sounded to harsh, even for my band mates it was significant. I ended up selling it and getting the 412 back. and not so long ago, I picked a second matching 412, and man there is no way I'm playing live without those 2 ^^
interestingly enough, not only is the sound more balanced, but it also makes it easier to tame the volume down: since now I've got so much presence, I can afford to turn the volume down a bit, and my sound is at the same time more audible and smoother.
I guess it also depends on the type of head you have: the benefits of a full stack are not as obvious on my 120 watts hi gain amp as on my 30 watts sovtek.
The last two speakers were added to duo cabs [edit: to make quadboxes] back in the day to disperse the power so they wouldn't blow speakers, not to add volume.
Number of speakers doesn't have anything to do with volume (DBs or SPL), first DB's don't add linearly, second you will reduce the watts going to each speaker using the same volume level, so in the end for increased volume you should use less speakers with higher SPL. More speakers = more sound distribution which is good for a venue but bad to monitor your playing. Micking cabs, is guitar voodoo more than anything, since a good producer/sound engineer can output the same sound from a guitar signal without much effort.
The only reason I like a full stack is so the speakers are up in the air in line with my ears. What I really need is some sort of wooden box the size of a 6x12 that is empty, then I can put a 2x12 on top of that. (Slanted cabs unfortunately don't do the trick)
I have a ENGL 2x12 and a Mesa 4x12 (traditionnal) and I love both for different reasons. I don't plan to ditch the 4x12 :p
A 30" vertical 212 cabinet in a road case with 6" wheel board works well for me. At the gig I place the cab on the case (66" total height). With the top speaker at ear level, the sound seems louder and brighter. Turning the volume and treble down improves what the microphone captures. Since the amp seems louder when standing in front of it, but is actually quieter than when on the floor, nobody complains about my volume. I adjust my monitor mix by standing closer or further from the speaker. The cab in the case is smaller and lighter than a 412, protected during transport, and rolls on stage. I like it.
Best compromise: use two 2x12 cabs, thats what I do.
Rock&Jazzer: Are you really.......Martin Barre?
@@vicferrari89 no but I like his playing and own hiwatt head like him...did he use 2x12 cabs or something?
Martin Barre .. Legend...now I'm going to listen to Minstrel in the Gallery....all the way through!
Sir you explained this so eloquently. Thank you for the straight answer.
I put my combo on my 2x12 and it’s like a stand and a stack at the same time. Having a variety of speakers and cabinet sizes is also great.
I actually think the 4x12 ironically is probably best for home applications these days due to the reasons stated. Nice vid!
I went through three 2x12 cabs now. My current one is a Mesa 2x12 vertical with creambacks... I'm shopping for at 4x12 again. They just sound better
Sorry, but I've never played a smaller cab that has the same tonal response as a 4x12. There's different applications however for different cabinet sizes/configurations. The one-size-fits-all mentality is very short-sighted.
Especially for some heavier music, i agree with this dude if you just playing some clean classical shit tho haha i would just roll with a 2x12 that gets loud
The big thing is application, and not necessarily what type of music you're playing, but how you are using it. You definitely notice a difference if you are playing a rehearsal with no mic, just the amp cranked up. The 4x12 is definitely more satisfying. However, if you are playing live and have a good FOH guy, he will get you sounding good in the mix, and they'll make sure you can hear yourself just fine in the monitor whether you are using a 4x12 or a 2x12. Unfortunately, I don't always play with a good sound guy, so I like my 4x12. After the 3rd time telling him to turn me up on my monitor, if he doesn't do it (you'd be surprised how many of them act like they're turning you up, but they don't) I start kicking up the volume in my amp.
If you gig 2-3 times a week then a smaller rig you'll love. But if you have a special one. Then getthe big guns once in a while.
Then there is us Fender combo amp players that have no plans of using any cab yet we still watch the metal heads argue.
What ? I don't get what you are trying to say.
@@auntjenifer7774 I have two Fender combo amps that have 410 speakers in each cab. He's saying the combo amps have speakers built into the cab, hence the name "combo-amp". Example my Fender '59 Bassman LTD. is a 410 combo amp!
Ok boomer
*are we
moar powah!!!
I've gigged with a full stack in small venues and it sounded awesome.
I recently went to a 2x12 for gigging (well just one gig then covid hit arrrrgggg !!! ) and thought it was just as good as my 4x12 and so much easier to carry. This dude totally right... i leave my 4x12 at the studio we practice at.
Sounds awesome too .
Depends on the way you see your guitar rig...
I have my "work rig" which is just an Helix.
My fun rig that I use whenever possible and it's a rock gig it's an ENGL fireball 100 and a 4x12. (I also have a 2x12 for when there's no space in the van)
I see this like the difference between cars and motorcycles. When I choose a car I choose sensibly to be a utilitarian tool. When I choose a motorcycle I choose with my heart, I don't care about mpg, comfort, etc... It's purpose is to inspire, provide fun and make me look back from across the street when I leave it parked.
The guitar fun rig is the same! It looks good on stage and inspires me to have fun playing
its all about the looks baby, nothing looks more rock and roll than a tower of speakers lol
the 2x12 Mesas are now $949 and the Marshalls are out of control. I just picked up a Mesa 2x12 almost mint (missing handle) for $429....huge score...I owned 2 marshall 4x12s one slant and one straight...I sold my slant 4x12 on Sunday for $450 and picked up the Mesa this past Monday.....what a fn steal...especially considering the fact I still have my straight 4x12
I paused it at 1:50 and made him wait while I ate my dinner muhahahaha. He just sat there and waiting though. Also I’m a combo player so this isn’t relevant at all but still a good video to watch 👍
I miss my 4x12. I regret selling it 10 years ago. I am buying one back! The 2x12 didn't do it for me for many years and the FRFR setup didn't either. There's just something about the 4x12 and sitting right by it and playing songs. Man. No words.. GET A 4X12!!
Well I have have a Mesa 212 vertical it sounds awesome. But. I have a carvin 412 with Mesa v30s 16ohms @16ohm load. And sealed up. It’s a monster. My opinion! The 412 is more fuller. Although my 212 vertical is not shabby at all. I’m keeping both.
I used to carry 2 100 watt half stacks to all gigs. Now I’m down to a 20 watter with a 1x12 and an ox. I’m fine with it.
Best option is to put everyone inside the PA. Use digital effects with CAB sims.
I've been liking the 2X12 for a while now, nice to see someone talk about it - ***** Stars : )
Nothing says rock n' roll more than looking across the room at a 4x12 cab...(I am a 2x12 player) ...they both are great!
dude amazing!! I did this 5 years ago. I went from a 1 x 12 to a 2 x 12. My Nick Curran had an amazing live rig with 2 x 12 and dan auerbach has that 2 x 12 marshall cab!
My heads and 4x12 cabs stay in the man cave. If I was out gigging there are plenty of combo amps available today that can do the job.
I started playing guitar 36 years ago. I always played through a 1x12 Amp.
Just last year I got myself an EVH 5150 4x12 cab....I'm EXTREMELY happy with it. Just a few days ago I ordered a 100watt Head. I will NEVER go back to a 1x12 Amp.
Best of both worlds is a vertical 2x12. :-)
@Guitar Heretic/*x Dude please.... I have a 100watt Blackstar head and a 2x12 vertical cab that will rupture your spleen.
@@Dagger_323 Cool story.....what does that have to do with anything I said?
@@Dagger_323 Try reading my comment....where I didn't say anything about a bigger and girthier sound....responding to a guy who said a 2x12 is for a "small apartment bedroom"....which is a ignorant statement....much like your response and reply. Obviously reading comprehension isn't your strong suit....but being a ass clown is.
thanks to this video, I just bought a Marshall 4x12 in great condition for 300 dollars. Thanks king.
More speakers makes me sound better. Plus I want my neighbors to hear every detail of me practicing pinch harmonics😂😂
The guitarist in my band uses a 2x12 at home and that sounds incredible but rents a 4x12 for practice as in that situation we DO want to hear what he is playing. He could barely be heard over our old drummer as he only had a 15 W amp head. I most commonly play a 2x12 cab for bass at rehearsals, but I have a substantially more powerful bass head (250 W) and so volume isn't ever really an issue, although I think I did push that cab to its limits. Live, I prefer using my 4x10 cab as I like the tone and the power handling is so far above what I have available that I never worry about distorting it, and I'm happy for other bands to play through it as they also aren't going to distort or damage it.
You make a lot of good points, and for me personally the size/weight aspect alone is reason enough to stick to 212's. Having said that, have you ever seen sludge/stoner/doom bands like Conan, Eagle Twin, Bongripper, etc.? Then you'll see why a 212 doesn't cut it for some genres. Size matters when it comes to low frequencies.
But the size of those speakers matters more than the speakers from a PA?
I dig all those bands and was contemplating a 2x12 tomorrow, but then I saw this video and read this comment :/
I think the biiiiiig amps these days are mostly a preference to the player, rather than a necessity. Technically you should be able to play all that music DI to the PA
Very good points made in this video. I agree!
The whole "Wall of Sound" concept is very cool, as long as you have a crew to load in, set up, load out. I haven't had that luxury in quite a while. (Although I still love my 412s).
I've been playing on stage for 50+ years, and I've figured out what works for me (with me being my own road crew). I run a BE-100 / 212 cab and it's plenty loud enough w/ enough chunk.
You're carnage may vary!!
So a vertical 2x12 is best of both worlds? Lightweight yet top speaker is angled as a 4x12 eliminating the need for a stand. What say you good sir?
Hmmm, the only problem is the bottom speaker wouldn't be directed at the player. Of course, you may want that, but I prefer to have all speakers in the cabinet directed at the me. Maybe a horizontal cabinet with built in angled stand would be the ideal setup.
I run a Mesa vertical 2x12 and a couple of points to share. 1. It is fing heavy! Not much in it by feel compared to a 1960A. 2. It’s not much smaller than a 1960A, a bit slimmer. 3. Bass response isn’t as good in this vert cab. If you want low end get the Horizontal Mesa which I had and sold and regret. 4. Even feel like I need to tilt the vertical 2x12 so I can hear it probably. Check out Jason Kui - he runs 2 x Mesa horizontal 2x12s as he says it is a bigger sound than a 4x12 plus easier to lug around no doubt. 👍
@@V8LC100 Hey thanks for the info!
This is the best video on truss rod adjustment I have ever seen. Thank you!
I've got a 412, 212, and 112...I bring the 112 to gigs because they mic it anyway. In my area used 412s are usually 30% cheaper than used 212s...probably for reasons stated in this video
I totally agree with this. I have always had a 2 speaker amp but walked into the guitar store one day and saw a 4x12 cabinet and deduced I needed to buy it! And I did….lugging it around is a pain in the a$$ and it sits there a lot of the time not to mention the wife reaction; “wth is this?”… which brings me to my point that less is more. Don’t get me wrong I am not selling my Marshall 4x12 just saying that my gut instinct was “what is small enough”, “ looks great”, “isn’t going to attract negative spousal attention”….and so on. I think you get the point. I have it yes I own it and I’ll probably get a 2x12 box to lug around making life a little easier for gigs. The 4x12 is just that status symbol that looks awesome next to a guitar. The 2x12 looks a little wimpy but for “at home” the 2x12 is really all that one needs.
What do you think about all the comments made by people preferring the 4x12 and saying that this video is garbage?
I thought this video was fair and informative by the way so Thanks for that👍👍👍
This is obviously a polarizing topic and when people react they way have been I know I'm not going to change their mind, so for the most part I ignore them.
There are a lot of claims with zero examples (video or other). The only argument that I agree with is that a 4x12, 2x12, or 1x12 will sound different because of the geometry of the cabinet, but with a caveat. Scientifically, this is true, no doubt about it. However, if you are micing the cabinet, you are typically placing the mic 3" - 6" away from the speaker. In this case, because the mic is so close to the speaker, there is very little influence, if any, from the cabinet, so the cabinet size does not matter. I've been thinking about doing a video on this, but haven't gotten around to it.
Most people argue there is more low end in a 4x12, which could be true, but they should also understand that a bassist needs to sit in the low end, so backing off the low end of the guitar should happen anyway. My video is based on the scenario of playing in a band (practice, gigs, etc.). If someone plays solo the majority of the time and wants to feel that bass from the 4x12, go for it. If they play in a band and still want that 4x12 then they are going to either have to turn down that bass knob, have the sound engineer EQ the bass out, or deal with stepping over the bass, giving the group an overall worse sound.
There are a few more arguments I could counter, but then I might as well be writing a book. Really, use whatever you want, I could really care less. I'm just trying to get some information out there.
I just made the change to 2x12 cabinets. Not because I saw this or any other video. First off, when I played out and toured, I used 3 Full stacks and 3 JMP 100 W Superleads. That was many moons ago and I held on to all that gear till yesterday. Over the years I built a Stereo W\D\W rack rig that used all 6 of those cabinets (2-wet-L\2 Dry\2-wet-R) with one change - stereo power amps. After 12 years of doing this, I do agree, it's too much. I'm killing my band as there is only so much air in the room for everyone to move and I am dominating in that area. The math doesn't lie. Every one tries to turn up but simply can't compete. My solution is - move to lower power 50 watt stereo amps and 2x12 cabinets. The sound is unbelievably better. Much more definition and punch. I didn't think I would feel the attack the way that I do with the 4x12 cabs but guess what, they punch harder. I do believe it is because they are more focused. As was suggested in this vid, I got 3 amp stands and run them side by side in a arch pattern behind me. If you don't think that looks cool, your out of your mind. All I can say is, screw me for waiting all these years to get my head around this change. I sound better now than I ever have in the past and I punch through the live mix like a sledgehammer without dominating the mix. Do it right! Make the change!
Nice man! In my opinion, you shouldn't rely on your rig to make you look cool. Let your performance speak for itself. That's what the audience cares about.
90% of the people reading this aren't playing any venue that needs a 4x12 cab. Most bar's and clubs in my city won't even let you run through 4x12 cabs....why? because they know it's over kill. Most of the places we play have a 500 person capacity or less. I have a 100watt tube head, a 2x12 vertical cab and a Yamaha DBR12 monitor. I have NEVER had to mic this setup and I play with a loud ass drummer and keyboard player. Our bass player has a 2x12 cab and a Ampeg 100watt head. He also has no issues with volume levels. There is not a nickels worth of difference tone wise between a 2x12 and a 4x12...played both for years. Invest in a EQ pedal and you can shape your tone far more than you can with two more speakers.
Well said.
I’ve got 3 really good 2x12s and almost bought a 4x12 until I saw this. Got a mic instead! Rock on
You're so right brother so sick of the big 4x12
every time you add a speaker on the same power amp you add +3db (in a perfect theoretical world) doesnt matter if the speakers are 25, 50 or any wattage.when adding speakers one next to each other you sum up their frequencies, the closer the better as higher frequencies are more difficult to sum!so if a 4x12 cab has a bit of more distance between the speakers of a 2x12 cab, the 2x12 cab is more possible to sound fuller (tonewise) than the 4x12 because of phasing issues!when micing a cab 2 or 4x12 may sound thinner than a 1x12 cab (on the mic) because of phase cancellations!
The reason I use 4x12’s is because people are selling them dirt cheap. Plus works great for rehearsals.
The sound quality comes from a cabinet - and 4x12 obviously have a better punch than 2x12. But this guy are right, a Saturday evening show at a pub are not need 4x12.
Loudness when you play gigs at venues that might have a piss poor pa system, or maybe no pa system, is definitely something to think about. Full stacks aren't going to matter for a lot of bands. But if your going for punishingly loud, ala the Body or Sunn or any gross doomy sludgy shit, full stacks are the way to go. When I saw Windhand with their double stacks a few years ago, the bass frequencies were so strong that my drink was vibrating off my table. I could feel every pluck of the bass move through my sternum. It was awesome.
Now, actually achieving that kind of tone takes a lot of work, knowledge, and fucking money. And in many cases its straight not worth it. Earth used to play loud as hell, now they mostly play with mixed mesa single speaker combo amps. And their tone is absolutely stunning.
Also, your math for the power sent to speakers is spot on, but your not accounting for the fact that more speakers are going to move more air. As you scale up to higher wattage (like a mesa boogie 400+) getting that additional air movement is going to create that percussive effect, that feeling when a note just hits you.
Gear acquisition syndrome isnt something to be proud of, and it's always a good idea to examine your setup and widdle it down to the necessary. I've watched super loud bands like Bellwitch and Lightning Bolt scale back their insane wall of amps for more basic setups due to touring logistics and they were still tight. But saying a full stack is just for dudes who are worried about their dicks? Straight disagree. Go watch Post/Boredoms' amazing guitarist Pam Shredder tear shit up on two 4x12s powered by 2 Mesa Tripple Recs live and get back to me.
While I disagree with some of this, its probably because I am a niche dude who loves the absurdly loud, I have a gear fetish, and as a bassist I've been lugging around 810s forever. This is still an awesome video! Keep them coming! Rad - c
First of all, thanks for the feedback. You do make some good points. There are always outliers where the norm just doesn't apply. My points were directed at the majority of people that play out of a half or full stack, and mostly people that play in small bands. I've never played a show with another band that required a full stack. Albeit, I've only ever played with small time bands. My experience is with guitar amps as well. I have very little experience with bass amps, but the moving air point does make a lot of sense. Again, thanks for the feedback. Always good to hear someone cares enough to respectfully share their opinion.
I will check out wind hand. I have heard of Sun....
Your totally right, just as loud and less weight to carry. I had a large Fender twin reverb then a dude walked in the studio with a little 2x12 fender studio and I was very impressed. I gave the twin to my son, I'm gonna get me a 2x12 👍
mic'ing a 1x12, 2x12 or 4x12 with the exact same amp and speaker will still produce a different sound. The cabinet creates a "back pressure" that adds to the fullness of the sound... even on 4x12 vs a different 4x12 in dimensions and build (materials used, etc...) Seriously... Try it out... I'll wait...
Good video, been a long time orange 4x12 user with my OR100. Now, we use combo amps in our doom band and I couldn’t be happier, running a 59 bassman and it holds up just as well.