I usually have a hard time hearing tonal differences of a distorted signal... but jumping back and forth between the first time Kohle played each cab.... yeah, the Marshall is super fizzy by comparison.
mate, sooo true. Some mid 90's Black metal bands, I'm sure they literally tried to make a Metal Zone pedal sound as shit as possible, which isn't hard at all if you have zero ideas how to use a semi-parametric eq while thinking "nailed it!" all at the same time!
Same here. I’ve used my JCM900 Marshall 4x12 with the original GT12-75’s in since 1998 live, and it’s so, so good. I do, however, slightly prefer the tone of the V30 for studio application. Have you seen this guys 75 speaker vid where he ‘conquers’ it with mic’ing it up? It’s awesome.
My experience of mixing bands live with Marshall Vs Mesa, is that Marshalls don't sound as pleasant, but are easier to sit in the mix. The extended top end of the Mesa gets in the way of everything else very easily. While the gnarly mids of the Marshall allowed me to sit the guitar back a little and still hear bucket loads of attitude. The cabs that really blew me away for metal were Engle. They sound massive but play nicely with the drums.
I pretty much agree with you dead on. Mesa cabs never worked for me in the mix and I stuck with Marshall 4x12 for years until I heard an Engl, it's like a Marshall but just a bit better.
Engl v30 cabs sit SO WELL in a metal mix. I play mine live and for rehearsals and I think it's perfect for that. Leaves enough space in the low end, gnarly mids...
yeah for me over the years, i always tend to have more issues with guys and girls using Mesa cabs that want to be the bass player as well in their tone and have little idea about sculpting a tone that fits in even before the Bass player arrives by either cranking the fuck out of the low end and/or removing all the mids and turning it up louder for that "..and justice" type tone. I typically try and have a wee conversation about rolling off a little of the lows and putting a bit of the mids back in at the source so I have a better chance at gett them to fit nicely out front. Most of the time they ignore me, so my little friend Mr High Pass comes in handy and 1176 compression (which I typically hate using on heavily distorted Electric guitars as it's really not necessary, it's already compressed, that's the point! I also will swap the mic from a typical 57 to a large-diaphragm condenser like an AT4050 or similar as well, which really helps. I really don't like having to mess with guitar tones too much as really all I'm doing is trying to polish their ignorant turd where possible.
Kristian always delivers the best content!! I have both cabinets!! I love my Marshall, which has original 30 watt Celestions! (before they were called Vintage, so they are actually proper Vintage! Haha)
I like the G12t-75 speakers a lot. Actually switched from long term use if V30s(normal ones not the Mesa ones). They are much different sounding and require you to dial them in much differently than V30s, but when done well I quite like them.
The best sounding 1960 cabs are loaded with G12M Greenbacks IMO. I also dig the G12T75's in an X pattern with V30's. You should do a video with one of those setups.
So in the final test, the Marshall has more bite in the top end, but the mesa sounds more well rounded. Both sound absolutely awesome though. I’d go for the mesa myself though.
Many years I have been a Mesa 412 oversize cabs from 1996. A couple years ago I bought a jcm900B cabinet from 96 and a 1960 Lead A cab from 2009. I installed two of the UK G12T75's from the B cab into the A cab, pulled the Chinese ones out and installed two V30 speakers in each with the UK G12T75's. My a/b'd them against my Mesa Cabs. From heavy metal, down tuned madness to cleans and all in between. I kept the Marshalls and after all those years I sold the Mesas. My rig was perfect with these cabs and those speakers. Everyone that listened to them back to back agreed. I do love the way the Mesa Cabs look but tonally with my rig, these Marshalls kill. I have a third cab in the mix now that is also a Marshall recovered. I run everything in a dual mono setup that is basically wet and dry. I can actually say I'm 100% satisfied and loving my tone for the last 2 years solid straight.
Subscribed to the newsletter. I loved the sound of both cabs. Probably sounds really nice when combined in a mix. Your 'Why you hate your guitar tone' video for URM Academy was really useful to me. Keep up the good work. 👍
That RIFF though.... through the mesashall cabinet, that's all kinds of old-school, like candlelight-era Opeth or at least that harmonic richness and sonic complexity.
i brought an old JCM900 cab, threw in some WGS vet30's & Invaders in an X pattern...unreal sound...& my fav cab has always been the Mesa...looks like the quality of the Mesa V30's over the rest makes a huge difference too...excellent education once again, thanks!
@@joristimmermans5058 yah, tell that to Jeff Waters who recorded almost all his album with those, until Carnival for sure. Does he have a bad tone? I find he has one of the most awesome tones ever heard. Stop living of stereotypes
@@lovecraftmusic8717 The G12T75 made in the 80s are not anything like the ones produced today. The old ones were more akin to Greenbacks on Steroids, the ones we have today are nothing like that.
very interesting video, Already knew the mesa speakers are different after owning both cabs (mesa oversized and marshall 1960BV and AV, but not that the difference is this big. I wonder how the cheap harley benton cabs with V30's compare.
HOLY SHIT! I have recently been thinking about selling my 1960AV due to it sounds the way it the way it does. NEW SPEAKERS IT IS! Tack så mycket Kristian, din hemliga beundrare från Norge Hans Peter
I think they all have their place in a mix, depending on what you are after. I personally have always preferred the Marshall sound & never really taken to the Mesa sound. However, I do agree the 75s in the Marshall suck & am looking at changing mine out for a selection of the speakers you highlighted in your video comparing various models. Cracking video dude!!!
That’s a really interesting conclusion! The speaker is more important than the cabinet itself! Great video, as always! I just subscribed to the mailing list! ;) I’d love to have that IR! Greetings from Colombia!
Honestly, I was not expecting the UK V30 to sound that much better. Makes you wonder what's different in the manufacturing that leads to such a different result with something that's supposed to be the same speaker.
I think they are wired heavier (wattage) than they state. It would help explain how they have a different eq curve and they seem to take abuse better. Just my theory
Amazing video! I had always suspected those Mesa UK V30s were the king of the V30s you can buy today. This makes me feel good about when I ordered a genuine UK V30 direct from Mesa recently to replace a standard Chinese V30 in a 1x12 I have. And wow, fascinating results here too swapping the Mesa speaker into a 1960. Cheers
Indeed you can order one directly using their website, which is what I did. Although now that I've read up even further, the T4335B is what you'll get now (the one I have), but the older standard T4335 is the loved one. Sigh. There are too many!! I wonder which specific variant Kristian has in his cab there
Honestly, there was never a mailing list I was excited to subscribe to. Well done, man. Can't wait for the courses and everything else, I want to learn!
I am shocked with how good your results are haha. Thanks for doing this Kristian! Could we get something like this with the Orange 4x12 vs the Mesa OS 4x12 ? Perhaps an anatomy video of the cabs?
Interesting, usually it's impossible to tell sound demo differences on you tube but with this demo it was distinctly different. The mesa had more note definition, tight, punchy, not harsh at all and balanced beautifully. The difference is just wow!
Still waiting for that Hesu Demon Speaker to make an appearance in one of your speaker related clips. Thomann stocks Hesu stuff now, just in case... :) But cheers again for this one - very nicely done and finally some actual evidence regarding the whole "mesa-voiced V30" myth. Never had I expected the difference to be THAT noticeable.
The speakers in the Mesa sound more like my WGS Veteran 30 than the Celestion V30 I had before. The V30s from the Marshall cab sound exactly like I remember V30s to sound like most of the time.
CARVIN CABS are the best all around sound wise !!! I run dual 100w amps in stereo! On my side is a 6505+ with 2 Carvin cabs with V30s. On the other side a JVM with Egnater cab with 12T75s!!!!! SWEET SWEET SWEET!!!!
Hey i was way stoked to check out this new vid of yours. I love hearing the difference in cab tone in controlled tests. Very comprehensive. I was also very happy that you said, " a matter of taste" at the latter stage of your vid. Because different tests will always yield a different result and hence a different flavor. Thank you!
Thanks man! One of my my driving forces is: "my taste is not yours". I always try to understand the good and bad sides of every tone. No matter if I personally like them or not.
My opinion just came along your channel I'm playing for 7 years now and you allready teached a lot of stuff to me about amps and cabs! Best guitar channel on RUclips!! Greetings from Rotterdam 😀🤟🏻🤟🏻
I thought it would be closer in the mix... to my ear it's where the Mesa really proved itself. Great video again and as always! Oh, and btw, what about differences between a straight and angled cab? ❤️
I love the way my Blackstar Series One Pro 4x12(a) cabinet sounds with their custom-voiced Celstion Vintage 30's. It has a great sound. Lots of depth. Lots of bass. Lots of everything. I would love to see yall compare one of these to the Mesa and Marshall 1960 and other cabs with V30's in them. 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Haha! I remember the Engl cab to sound a kinda thin. The oversized Engl was the only one that worked for me. But that was more than 10 years ago, maybe I should compare it in another video!
Subscribed - How much impact on the sound would the interaction between the speakers have? Swapping out all 4 speakers from the Mesa to the Marshall cab would give you that answer 🙃 i love the Mesa cabs. Most of the tones i make start with Ownhammer IR’s from Mesa or an Orange ppc 412 with V30’s.
Depending on the amp used, the question I would ask myself at the end (final comparison) would be whether it would sound better/be easier to try to dial out some fizz on the Mesa cab, or boost up some high-mid/highs on the Marshall. I often find that the starting point with the least fizz is easier to get sounding good and present vs. trying to band-aid a sound with unwanted noise. Depends on all the pieces of the puzzle though.
Subscribed. I would love to have heard a third option, the difference between the Standard size Mesa against the Marshall and the OS Mesa. I always find myself gravitating towards the standard size Mesa more and I think it has some of the properties that made the Marshall sound great.
Great comparison and video! My only complaint is that one was a straight cab and the other was a slant which actually does has a impact in tone even when close miking.
I use a JCM2000DSL 😁 and have always thought it was a great amp. Been using it for 15 years. I also have a 1960A with stock speakers. I like them but now I don't know what to think 😵
Great video! I love marshall cabs 4-ever. Have 4 4x12 (1× from 1968 original, 1x 1 cab from 68 and 1970 green back, 1x 1960 lead and goid v30, 1x original 1960A) all sounds fantastic and difrent! Mesa sounds like mesa (point)
Wow..the Mesa kicks the Marshall, yet when you transplanted the speakers from the Mesa it brought it to life. Have you ever mic’d up each individual speaker of a 4x12?
So in conclusion it's both the speakers and the dimensions of the Mesa cab. There was a noticeable improvement (way more body) when you moved the Mesa V30s to the Marshall cab, but it still wasn't quite there. To me that says the oversized cab fills in the blanks. Terrific video! As a sidenote, I think it's important to point out that Mesa were not the first ones to do the oversize cab. I have a 1982 Hiwatt cab with the same dimensions sitting behind me with the same top end clarity. A little less bass response, but that's because it has Fanes in it, which are very bright. But the balance, the body, everything is there.
I own the Marshall Silver jubilee Cab. It has the V30's made in england, rumors say they are the exact same as in the Mesa Cabs. Now when I compare your Marshall V30's to mine, they sounds pretty different (I like mine a lot more), I think the rumors might be right. I'd really like to compare the IR of your Marshall with my Marshall Cab! PS: Richtig geiles Video, Experimente mit solcher Hingabe und Genauigkeit würde ich gerne mehr sehen! +1Abo
Was it OD1 or OD2 on the DSL? Do you remember what was the setting for the MID knob? With the setup used here on the DSL, the MESA cabinet/speaker sounds better (as in better midrange) and the Marshall very scooped. But the DSL on OD2 with the MID knob between 2 and 4 pm has plenty of midrange when paired with the Marshall cab (it does not sound like the one in the video). I have both cabinets and the same head, and I prefer the DSL/1960AV combination, as it gives me all the mids I would ever need (I want lots of mids), an yet, somehow, more bite and more or better low end than the Mesa cab. BUT, in this video, I prefer the Mesa cab... That's why I asked those questions. Great comparison! Thanks.
That Marshall with Mesa speaker sounded surprisingly good. I wasn't expecting that V30 would be made differently for different cabs. I thought that they would sound closer to each other.
Does Canada even have anything close to Kristian or Jens for metal producers? You guys are simply un-fucking-touchable in quality AND content. Love it.
this IR would be nice. :) My favorite IRs so far are Own Hammers. I kind of like that i have access to all of those millions of positions of several cabs, speakers, mic, and their positions... i am kind of a nerd like that.... in the other hand some short cutts are always welcome to get some usable Irs immediately. OwnHammer is great in that regards, too. OH IRs come with a folder where the mix ready stuff, then there is a 'starting-point' A1 folder etc. etc.
Kohle... My first reaction was: there's nothing wrong with Marshall original tone.... If I was in the studio with you and offered both I would probably go for that one.... A bit more bite.... Then I listened the two cabs in the mix and I by far preferred the Mesa as I thought I was more "present" where it actually matters... Am I the only one...?
I love the sound of blending a Mesa cab with another cabinet. Get the lows from the Mesa and the mids from something else. Also, I have a Sunn 412 with the Celestion G12T-75's & love it, but I'm doing mainly rock & not metal
the marshall 19060 with t75s is the sound of every deftones record, most meshuggah records, smashing pumpkins, early machine head, and dead heart in a dead world from nevermore . have a more open mind with those speakers
It comes down to what type of speakers inside and the size of the cabinet. The Mesa Boogie cabinet is bigger and has Vintage 30 speakers, thus, more expensive and clearly sound deeper and mellower per my taste. BTW it also comes down to personal preference. Some may like the crispy sound of the Marshall. Best to have both. I would prefer two horizontal 2x12 cabinets than one 4x12 cabinet.
Running a Randall Thrasher 120W through a Marshall Origin 4x12. Absolutely love the combo. Perfect for Thrash, classic Death Metal, and a lot of blues and classic rock
I feel like these are industry standards but there's nicer stuff. Like the Orange(US made)/Bogner/Friedman/whoever makes Victory cabs all felt nicer than Marshall or Mesa cabs. The Friedman and Bogner are both made in LA too so I don't know if it's the same builder. The grill on my Friedman head is the same as the grill on my Bogner if that means anything.
one thing that’s important to bear in mind, is a cab’s construction will contribute to the load it places on the amp - this in turn will affect the negative feedback circuit so the behaviours of presence/resonance and MV will all be different (and should probably be adjusted to compensate). Marshall V30’s are also UK made I believe, and have their own voicing (more upper mids). All speakers can vary so much, even those built at the same time within a particular cab so it’s all very hard to make objective statements on. I prefer the Mesa cabs too, but adjusting amp settings and mic position can land on some equally good tones
The cab to cab comparison was cool and interesting. I liked both cabs equally and feel they compliment each other nicely. The Marshall is more focused and the Mesa is more open and has more low end . I could see blending them and, adjusting the balance to fit the needs or sections of a song.
Very insightful experiment. Subscribed to the email list. Looking forward to more vids from this channel too, now that you're only making vids for this one.
When you were trying the single Mesa speaker in the Marshall cab... were you only powering one speaker per cab? If not, some of the differences between cabs could be the bleed/sum from the surrounding speakers as much or more than the cab acoustics. For example, the Boogie cabs additional lows/highs and the Marshall's extra honk may have been a result of the sum of 4 speakers (in the Marshall, for example, the honk could be from the other 3 crappy speakers).
That makes sense in theory, but after a lot of testing I can confirm it makes no difference if you close-mic. I once had one speaker wired out-of-phase. All speakers sounded great until you blended them. 🤮 And if course it sounded terrible in the room.
Great idea, I was wondering exactly the same thing. But how can it be so different speakers ? They suppose to be the same V30 ? Anyway I was blown away !!!
Have you tried a vintage Basket weave MARSHALL 4x12 straight cab W/(metal handles) W/even the back panel is multiply birch(not particle board) Loaded with pre Rola Greenbacks?
Keep in mind the marshall cabs normally have the g12V which is the marshall version of the V30, and contrary to the mesa v30 the Marshall ones actually are voiced differently (and worse)
I use a Marshall 1960A cross loaded with the G12T75 and V30s, and I find that it mixes the higher V30 range with the lower G12 very well! I really like that sound
Where are the speakers in that marshall cab made? I recall a video where someone did a side by side comparison of vintage made in GB g12-t75's and the modern made in china speakers. Night and day difference. The MIC were fizzy and harsh, where the MIB were rounded out and sounded stellar. Kind of the same here with the true MIB V30 found in the mesa. Gurantee the marshall speakers are MIC models v30's.
Kohle: if you like this tone something is wrong with you.
Black Metal Guitarist: slowly walks away...
I usually have a hard time hearing tonal differences of a distorted signal... but jumping back and forth between the first time Kohle played each cab.... yeah, the Marshall is super fizzy by comparison.
mate, sooo true. Some mid 90's Black metal bands, I'm sure they literally tried to make a Metal Zone pedal sound as shit as possible, which isn't hard at all if you have zero ideas how to use a semi-parametric eq while thinking "nailed it!" all at the same time!
Dude the 75 watt marshall speaker just nails that early meshuggah tone. It's just so perfect. Honestly, I love those speakers.
I do too man. I don't understand the hate behind them.
Same here. I’ve used my JCM900 Marshall 4x12 with the original GT12-75’s in since 1998 live, and it’s so, so good.
I do, however, slightly prefer the tone of the V30 for studio application.
Have you seen this guys 75 speaker vid where he ‘conquers’ it with mic’ing it up? It’s awesome.
Agree. I guess it depends with what speakers you grew up with?
@@brendonriley I believe that head was voiced with that cab in mind so nothing shocking there
@@snapascrew I don’t use the 900 head. I’ve used a whole bunch of heads with it, but not a JCM900 head 😉
My experience of mixing bands live with Marshall Vs Mesa, is that Marshalls don't sound as pleasant, but are easier to sit in the mix. The extended top end of the Mesa gets in the way of everything else very easily. While the gnarly mids of the Marshall allowed me to sit the guitar back a little and still hear bucket loads of attitude.
The cabs that really blew me away for metal were Engle. They sound massive but play nicely with the drums.
thats some good info man! i've been looking into a new cab
I pretty much agree with you dead on. Mesa cabs never worked for me in the mix and I stuck with Marshall 4x12 for years until I heard an Engl, it's like a Marshall but just a bit better.
@@impo64 Yeah, Engle have that extended frequency range for lower tunings, but still have the gnarly mids like a Marshall.
Engl v30 cabs sit SO WELL in a metal mix. I play mine live and for rehearsals and I think it's perfect for that. Leaves enough space in the low end, gnarly mids...
yeah for me over the years, i always tend to have more issues with guys and girls using Mesa cabs that want to be the bass player as well in their tone and have little idea about sculpting a tone that fits in even before the Bass player arrives by either cranking the fuck out of the low end and/or removing all the mids and turning it up louder for that "..and justice" type tone. I typically try and have a wee conversation about rolling off a little of the lows and putting a bit of the mids back in at the source so I have a better chance at gett them to fit nicely out front. Most of the time they ignore me, so my little friend Mr High Pass comes in handy and 1176 compression (which I typically hate using on heavily distorted Electric guitars as it's really not necessary, it's already compressed, that's the point! I also will swap the mic from a typical 57 to a large-diaphragm condenser like an AT4050 or similar as well, which really helps. I really don't like having to mess with guitar tones too much as really all I'm doing is trying to polish their ignorant turd where possible.
Kristian always delivers the best content!! I have both cabinets!! I love my Marshall, which has original 30 watt Celestions! (before they were called Vintage, so they are actually proper Vintage! Haha)
So there's even another one? Damn! Time for another video.
@Frank Lee thanks my friend!
@@KohleAudioKult haha yes, I was telling you about this cabinet! It was Vivian Campbell's! We created an IR of it which is amazing!
@@Producelikeapro Looks like I need that IR!
In case you forgot that cab in the UK, I can pick it up for you, haha!
@@KohleAudioKult hmmm...it's here, in Lalaland!
The marshall with the mesa speaker was actually my favorite sound from the video! Its GREAT!
I like the G12t-75 speakers a lot. Actually switched from long term use if V30s(normal ones not the Mesa ones). They are much different sounding and require you to dial them in much differently than V30s, but when done well I quite like them.
JCM2000s are such underrated amps for metal.
I just had my rebirth too!
@@barryenright2320 green channel is supposed to be some sort of a JCM800 flavour iirc. Absolte favorite amp
The more classic channel sounds really nice.
@@barryenright2320 What's wrong with the TSL?
So are the VS 8100
The best sounding 1960 cabs are loaded with G12M Greenbacks IMO. I also dig the G12T75's in an X pattern with V30's. You should do a video with one of those setups.
The g12t75's and v30s in an x pattern is what came in the mesa cab I have. Really nice combo.
So scientific; so German. I love it.
So in the final test, the Marshall has more bite in the top end, but the mesa sounds more well rounded. Both sound absolutely awesome though. I’d go for the mesa myself though.
This is easily becoming one of my favorite channels! And what about that riff, so good!
Many years I have been a Mesa 412 oversize cabs from 1996. A couple years ago I bought a jcm900B cabinet from 96 and a 1960 Lead A cab from 2009. I installed two of the UK G12T75's from the B cab into the A cab, pulled the Chinese ones out and installed two V30 speakers in each with the UK G12T75's. My a/b'd them against my Mesa Cabs. From heavy metal, down tuned madness to cleans and all in between. I kept the Marshalls and after all those years I sold the Mesas. My rig was perfect with these cabs and those speakers. Everyone that listened to them back to back agreed. I do love the way the Mesa Cabs look but tonally with my rig, these Marshalls kill. I have a third cab in the mix now that is also a Marshall recovered. I run everything in a dual mono setup that is basically wet and dry. I can actually say I'm 100% satisfied and loving my tone for the last 2 years solid straight.
Subscribed to the newsletter. I loved the sound of both cabs. Probably sounds really nice when combined in a mix. Your 'Why you hate your guitar tone' video for URM Academy was really useful to me. Keep up the good work. 👍
The Marshall with the Boogie speaker sounded badass, I'd love to have an IR of that sound
Fortin nameless suite
That RIFF though.... through the mesashall cabinet, that's all kinds of old-school, like candlelight-era Opeth or at least that harmonic richness and sonic complexity.
Thanks! Love their Candlelight albums!
Great scheiBe Kohle! You just can't beat the recto, it delivers every single time.
i brought an old JCM900 cab, threw in some WGS vet30's & Invaders in an X pattern...unreal sound...& my fav cab has always been the Mesa...looks like the quality of the Mesa V30's over the rest makes a huge difference too...excellent education once again, thanks!
Gonna show the Vet30s in a video soon. stay tuned!
@@KohleAudioKult awesum! look forward to it
The more informative and honest channel in this web!!! thank you!!!
Great video, but there's one thing you were kinda unclear about. Do the G12T-75 suck or not?
Hahaaa!
It's clear that that's just a matter of taste. As in, if you like the G12T-75, you have no taste.
@@joristimmermans5058 yah, tell that to Jeff Waters who recorded almost all his album with those, until Carnival for sure. Does he have a bad tone? I find he has one of the most awesome tones ever heard. Stop living of stereotypes
Not.
@@lovecraftmusic8717 The G12T75 made in the 80s are not anything like the ones produced today. The old ones were more akin to Greenbacks on Steroids, the ones we have today are nothing like that.
Thanks so much for this test. I never thought two 4x12 cabs sounds SO different with the same speaker.
very interesting video, Already knew the mesa speakers are different after owning both cabs (mesa oversized and marshall 1960BV and AV, but not that the difference is this big. I wonder how the cheap harley benton cabs with V30's compare.
HOLY SHIT! I have recently been thinking about selling my 1960AV due to it sounds the way it the way it does. NEW SPEAKERS IT IS!
Tack så mycket Kristian, din hemliga beundrare från Norge
Hans Peter
Är det du igen, haha! Tack!
I think they all have their place in a mix, depending on what you are after. I personally have always preferred the Marshall sound & never really taken to the Mesa sound. However, I do agree the 75s in the Marshall suck & am looking at changing mine out for a selection of the speakers you highlighted in your video comparing various models. Cracking video dude!!!
That’s a really interesting conclusion! The speaker is more important than the cabinet itself! Great video, as always! I just subscribed to the mailing list! ;) I’d love to have that IR! Greetings from Colombia!
Honestly, I was not expecting the UK V30 to sound that much better. Makes you wonder what's different in the manufacturing that leads to such a different result with something that's supposed to be the same speaker.
I think they are wired heavier (wattage) than they state.
It would help explain how they have a different eq curve and they seem to take abuse better. Just my theory
I liked the Marshall cab with it's pre-loaded speakers too.
Great video man! The OS Rec 4x12 is probably one of my most used cabs for sure!
Absolutely Alex! The Mesa cab is a legend
Amazing video! I had always suspected those Mesa UK V30s were the king of the V30s you can buy today. This makes me feel good about when I ordered a genuine UK V30 direct from Mesa recently to replace a standard Chinese V30 in a 1x12 I have. And wow, fascinating results here too swapping the Mesa speaker into a 1960. Cheers
Thanks man! You had the right instinct!
wait, you can order just the speaker from boogie?
Indeed you can order one directly using their website, which is what I did. Although now that I've read up even further, the T4335B is what you'll get now (the one I have), but the older standard T4335 is the loved one. Sigh. There are too many!! I wonder which specific variant Kristian has in his cab there
@@metal571 2002 T4335. Watch his video with Nolly
JCM2000 with the Mesa speaker in Marshall cab was surprisingly satisfying and awesome
Honestly, there was never a mailing list I was excited to subscribe to. Well done, man. Can't wait for the courses and everything else, I want to learn!
Welcome!
I am shocked with how good your results are haha. Thanks for doing this Kristian!
Could we get something like this with the Orange 4x12 vs the Mesa OS 4x12 ? Perhaps an anatomy video of the cabs?
I just don't have an Orange cab here. I remember them to sound a little dark and boxy though.
Interesting, usually it's impossible to tell sound demo differences on you tube but with this demo it was distinctly different. The mesa had more note definition, tight, punchy, not harsh at all and balanced beautifully. The difference is just wow!
Definitely keen to hear what they might sound like blended together too :3
Nice demo mate. I loved the sound of the Mesa V30 in the Marshall cab. \m/
Still waiting for that Hesu Demon Speaker to make an appearance in one of your speaker related clips. Thomann stocks Hesu stuff now, just in case... :)
But cheers again for this one - very nicely done and finally some actual evidence regarding the whole "mesa-voiced V30" myth. Never had I expected the difference to be THAT noticeable.
Yes! I should get in touch with Hesu.
I still have enough untested speakers here though
I'm pretty surprised as well, thanks for the video Köhli!
The speakers in the Mesa sound more like my WGS Veteran 30 than the Celestion V30 I had before. The V30s from the Marshall cab sound exactly like I remember V30s to sound like most of the time.
I’m gonna test the Vet30 soon!
CARVIN CABS are the best all around sound wise !!!
I run dual 100w amps in stereo! On my side is a 6505+ with 2 Carvin cabs with V30s. On the other side a JVM with Egnater cab with 12T75s!!!!! SWEET SWEET SWEET!!!!
Hey i was way stoked to check out this new vid of yours. I love hearing the difference in cab tone in controlled tests. Very comprehensive. I was also very happy that you said, " a matter of taste" at the latter stage of your vid. Because different tests will always yield a different result and hence a different flavor. Thank you!
Thanks man! One of my my driving forces is: "my taste is not yours". I always try to understand the good and bad sides of every tone. No matter if I personally like them or not.
My opinion just came along your channel I'm playing for 7 years now and you allready teached a lot of stuff to me about amps and cabs! Best guitar channel on RUclips!! Greetings from Rotterdam 😀🤟🏻🤟🏻
Thanks man! Spread the word! 🍺❤️
I thought it would be closer in the mix... to my ear it's where the Mesa really proved itself.
Great video again and as always!
Oh, and btw, what about differences between a straight and angled cab?
❤️
I love the way my Blackstar Series One Pro 4x12(a) cabinet sounds with their custom-voiced Celstion Vintage 30's. It has a great sound. Lots of depth. Lots of bass. Lots of everything. I would love to see yall compare one of these to the Mesa and Marshall 1960 and other cabs with V30's in them. 🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Great stuff, dude! Of course, the ENGL cab is far superior to the Mesa ;) ... and so is the Laney! :p
Haha got to LOVE both the ENGL (German...Kristian?) and Laney (English...me? Ha)! I do have a soft spot (heavy?) for the Mesa!
Haha!
I remember the Engl cab to sound a kinda thin.
The oversized Engl was the only one that worked for me.
But that was more than 10 years ago, maybe I should compare it in another video!
Haha, right! I have never tried a Laney cab. Perhaps I should do that as well.
I just couldn't get on board with the Laney cab. I use a Harley Benson v30s with my Laney head.
Lol laney
Damn man, you knocked this video and the riffs out of the park!!!! Really taking it to the next level... unreal video
That scooped voicing on the JCM 2000 with the Mesa V30 in the Marshall cab is perfect for that oldschool thrash sound!
It has a certain early 90s vibe. That's how I felt about it.
Subscribed - How much impact on the sound would the interaction between the speakers have? Swapping out all 4 speakers from the Mesa to the Marshall cab would give you that answer 🙃 i love the Mesa cabs. Most of the tones i make start with Ownhammer IR’s from Mesa or an Orange ppc 412 with V30’s.
Long time wanted to make that test with same speaker in different cabs... Thank you for saving my time! ))
IRs?! Gotta catch them all! :D "One never has enough IRs!"
the 2 cabs at the end actually sound like they would blend brilliantly on a double tracking or 2 panned guitars
I was suprised how Marshal cab sounds with MB speakers. I might getting one in near future :)
Depending on the amp used, the question I would ask myself at the end (final comparison) would be whether it would sound better/be easier to try to dial out some fizz on the Mesa cab, or boost up some high-mid/highs on the Marshall.
I often find that the starting point with the least fizz is easier to get sounding good and present vs. trying to band-aid a sound with unwanted noise. Depends on all the pieces of the puzzle though.
Subscribed. I would love to have heard a third option, the difference between the Standard size Mesa against the Marshall and the OS Mesa. I always find myself gravitating towards the standard size Mesa more and I think it has some of the properties that made the Marshall sound great.
Yes +1
Great comparison and video! My only complaint is that one was a straight cab and the other was a slant which actually does has a impact in tone even when close miking.
Yes. But believe me, that difference is 200% neglectable in this case.
I use a JCM2000DSL 😁 and have always thought it was a great amp. Been using it for 15 years. I also have a 1960A with stock speakers. I like them but now I don't know what to think 😵
Haha! Sorry!
Great video!
I love marshall cabs 4-ever.
Have 4 4x12 (1× from 1968 original, 1x 1 cab from 68 and 1970 green back, 1x 1960 lead and goid v30, 1x original 1960A) all sounds fantastic and difrent!
Mesa sounds like mesa (point)
Wow..the Mesa kicks the Marshall, yet when you transplanted the speakers from the Mesa it brought it to life. Have you ever mic’d up each individual speaker of a 4x12?
I do that every time before recording a 4x12.
How different are each speaker generally?
So in conclusion it's both the speakers and the dimensions of the Mesa cab. There was a noticeable improvement (way more body) when you moved the Mesa V30s to the Marshall cab, but it still wasn't quite there. To me that says the oversized cab fills in the blanks. Terrific video!
As a sidenote, I think it's important to point out that Mesa were not the first ones to do the oversize cab. I have a 1982 Hiwatt cab with the same dimensions sitting behind me with the same top end clarity. A little less bass response, but that's because it has Fanes in it, which are very bright. But the balance, the body, everything is there.
Marshall kinda has a juicy, more vocal sound. Mesa sounds more direct, roaring, and open.
I have an old Marshall 1960 cab with Celestion g12-25 ROLA speakers I think it sounds great. The Marshall speakers sound like a digital practice amp
I own the Marshall Silver jubilee Cab. It has the V30's made in england, rumors say they are the exact same as in the Mesa Cabs. Now when I compare your Marshall V30's to mine, they sounds pretty different (I like mine a lot more), I think the rumors might be right. I'd really like to compare the IR of your Marshall with my Marshall Cab!
PS: Richtig geiles Video, Experimente mit solcher Hingabe und Genauigkeit würde ich gerne mehr sehen! +1Abo
Silver Jubilee rules!
Was it OD1 or OD2 on the DSL?
Do you remember what was the setting for the MID knob?
With the setup used here on the DSL, the MESA cabinet/speaker sounds better (as in better midrange) and the Marshall very scooped. But the DSL on OD2 with the MID knob between 2 and 4 pm has plenty of midrange when paired with the Marshall cab (it does not sound like the one in the video).
I have both cabinets and the same head, and I prefer the DSL/1960AV combination, as it gives me all the mids I would ever need (I want lots of mids), an yet, somehow, more bite and more or better low end than the Mesa cab. BUT, in this video, I prefer the Mesa cab...
That's why I asked those questions.
Great comparison!
Thanks.
Mids at 10. Bass full, Presence and treble around noon. And it’s “Lead 1”
@@KohleAudioKult Thanks for answering.
And for your videos.
"it sounds honky and scooped at the same time somehow" I laughed out loud!
Appreciate your unbiased demo's, you never disappoint sir
Kohle is king
Always has been!
Haha! Trying hard. Long way to go still!
He’s pretty awesome! Just don’t let him know! Might go to his head!
Köhlnig?
That Marshall with Mesa speaker sounded surprisingly good. I wasn't expecting that V30 would be made differently for different cabs. I thought that they would sound closer to each other.
When I heard the LP scratch I thought I was gonna hear "Fast as a Shark"!!
Does Canada even have anything close to Kristian or Jens for metal producers? You guys are simply un-fucking-touchable in quality AND content. Love it.
fantastisches Video, wie immer.
Man, you're an inspiration (and an expense!!! Now I'm looking online for speakers!). I humbly thank YOU!
2:04 that was riff was awesome
Thanks! But this was just some spontaneous riffing this morning!
The BEST channel for metal production!
I love the Marshall better. I am kind of tired to hear every album that comes out, sound the same year after year. It’s nice to try different things.
Stay tuned for more "different things"
this IR would be nice. :)
My favorite IRs so far are Own Hammers. I kind of like that i have access to all of those millions of positions of several cabs, speakers, mic, and their positions... i am kind of a nerd like that....
in the other hand some short cutts are always welcome to get some usable Irs immediately. OwnHammer is great in that regards, too. OH IRs come with a folder where the mix ready stuff, then there is a 'starting-point' A1 folder etc. etc.
Kohle... My first reaction was: there's nothing wrong with Marshall original tone.... If I was in the studio with you and offered both I would probably go for that one.... A bit more bite.... Then I listened the two cabs in the mix and I by far preferred the Mesa as I thought I was more "present" where it actually matters... Am I the only one...?
I love the sound of blending a Mesa cab with another cabinet. Get the lows from the Mesa and the mids from something else. Also, I have a Sunn 412 with the Celestion G12T-75's & love it, but I'm doing mainly rock & not metal
the marshall 19060 with t75s is the sound of every deftones record, most meshuggah records, smashing pumpkins, early machine head, and dead heart in a dead world from nevermore . have a more open mind with those speakers
They have their place imo, but the don’t sound ‘good’. They’re raw af though
Hello! The Marshall cab is a JCM900 1960B lead? can you tell me what is written in the golden plate at the left bottom corner of the cab?
Once you switched the speakers on the Marshall, I really liked it! Just a different character. Awesome video as always!
It comes down to what type of speakers inside and the size of the cabinet. The Mesa Boogie cabinet is bigger and has Vintage 30 speakers, thus, more expensive and clearly sound deeper and mellower per my taste. BTW it also comes down to personal preference. Some may like the crispy sound of the Marshall. Best to have both. I would prefer two horizontal 2x12 cabinets than one 4x12 cabinet.
The JCM2000 boosted with a Metal Zone is death metal heaven. Great video as always Kohle!
Running a Randall Thrasher 120W through a Marshall Origin 4x12. Absolutely love the combo. Perfect for Thrash, classic Death Metal, and a lot of blues and classic rock
I think the Orange 4x12 buries both of these... Voice of the World speakers.
I feel like these are industry standards but there's nicer stuff. Like the Orange(US made)/Bogner/Friedman/whoever makes Victory cabs all felt nicer than Marshall or Mesa cabs. The Friedman and Bogner are both made in LA too so I don't know if it's the same builder. The grill on my Friedman head is the same as the grill on my Bogner if that means anything.
one thing that’s important to bear in mind, is a cab’s construction will contribute to the load it places on the amp - this in turn will affect the negative feedback circuit so the behaviours of presence/resonance and MV will all be different (and should probably be adjusted to compensate).
Marshall V30’s are also UK made I believe, and have their own voicing (more upper mids). All speakers can vary so much, even those built at the same time within a particular cab so it’s all very hard to make objective statements on.
I prefer the Mesa cabs too, but adjusting amp settings and mic position can land on some equally good tones
The Mesa sounds like it has a blanket thrown over it.
I like the Mesa speakers in the Marshall cabinet. More dry and not as fizzy with some clarity.
Marshall sounds horrible! but Idk why I like it for thrash metal hehehe
The cab to cab comparison was cool and interesting. I liked both cabs equally and feel they compliment each other nicely. The Marshall is more focused and the Mesa is more open and has more low end . I could see blending them and, adjusting the balance to fit the needs or sections of a song.
Another badass tone from the king of metal mixing!
Very insightful experiment. Subscribed to the email list. Looking forward to more vids from this channel too, now that you're only making vids for this one.
When you were trying the single Mesa speaker in the Marshall cab... were you only powering one speaker per cab? If not, some of the differences between cabs could be the bleed/sum from the surrounding speakers as much or more than the cab acoustics. For example, the Boogie cabs additional lows/highs and the Marshall's extra honk may have been a result of the sum of 4 speakers (in the Marshall, for example, the honk could be from the other 3 crappy speakers).
That makes sense in theory, but after a lot of testing I can confirm it makes no difference if you close-mic.
I once had one speaker wired out-of-phase. All speakers sounded great until you blended them. 🤮
And if course it sounded terrible in the room.
Really well executed and entertaining tests as usual. Keep it up!
Great idea, I was wondering exactly the same thing. But how can it be so different speakers ? They suppose to be the same V30 ? Anyway I was blown away !!!
Have you tried a vintage Basket weave MARSHALL 4x12 straight cab W/(metal handles) W/even the back panel is multiply birch(not particle board) Loaded with pre Rola Greenbacks?
This was a huge surprise and great to learn! Thanks for making this!
What a great explanation and exercice! Good work on the video production too! Cheers
Keep in mind the marshall cabs normally have the g12V which is the marshall version of the V30, and contrary to the mesa v30 the Marshall ones actually are voiced differently (and worse)
In the mix they were so similar, even though I preferred the Marshall in that particular mix slightly more. Solo, the Boogie sounded much better.
I use a Marshall 1960A cross loaded with the G12T75 and V30s, and I find that it mixes the higher V30 range with the lower G12 very well! I really like that sound
Wie immer großartig. Mich würde interessiren, ob es einen hörbaren Unterschied zwischen der Mesa Boogie Rectifier 4x12 slant und straight gibt.
Danke! Im Studio und für's close-miking is das wurscht.
Don’t know why I’m not getting notifications for when you upload but anyways I love this show, this Keith marrow and ola is my life
Did you ring the bell?
@@KohleAudioKult i did...but it was under "personalized", now i fixed it to ALL
Where are the speakers in that marshall cab made? I recall a video where someone did a side by side comparison of vintage made in GB g12-t75's and the modern made in china speakers. Night and day difference. The MIC were fizzy and harsh, where the MIB were rounded out and sounded stellar. Kind of the same here with the true MIB V30 found in the mesa. Gurantee the marshall speakers are MIC models v30's.