The two amps used here are both essentially very similar hot-rodded Marshall-type circuits though. I feel like you’d hear a pretty noticeable difference comparing one of those to say, a Mesa Mark series that has a different circuit topology to it. I own both a VH4 and a Mark V myself and they sound and feel very different to me playing them through the same cab.
The bottomline they’re trying to show is: there is much more difference between two cabs than between two amps. Or in other words: 70-80% of a guitar sound comes from the speakers/cab, not the amp.
Gutwrencher Krahl - yes, I know what you’re saying. It’s even worse through my cheap-ass ear buds through youtube. I watched something like a 15 lunchbox shootout (sonic studios?) and could hardly tell a difference between any of them :o
To be perfectly fair, the Splawn and JJ are already similar amps dus to both being based off modded Marshalls. But I agree wholeheartedly that cabs are far more important.
Would love to see Kevin on here regularly. He just mixed/mastered some of our music, very happy with his work. On to the cabinets, i couldn't agree more. Our current favorite is the Friedman 412/15 this is a killer cab for Baritone guitars. The G12H 30s are 55htz-15G15V-100 Fullback- this combo really works with amazing clarity. Our 1991 Marshall has 2 GT75s and we just put in 2 Celestiion Alinco Cream. Then we have a Mesa, all are 4x12 minus the friedman. We also have 7 eminence speakers that we move around from time to time. Best part is you can always find a old 4x12 cab on CL for $250-450 Love this channel , Cheers from Michigan
I didn’t even make it 2 minutes into this, and you got a new subscriber simply because of the Zelda and Nintendo related music. My guy, you’re amazing.
I noticed that when I first got the raw signal of my Traynor running into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie IR. For an amp made for classic rock, it sounded absolutely huge.
Perfect examples: The Marshall MG amps everyone hates on, or any of the Valvestates that also get hated on. Throw away the shit cabs they come with and use a REAL cab like a 1960 A or B and these amps sound soooo much better.
Been saying this for years after going to several ampfests where guys brought over all sorts of pricey heads from Bogner, Diezel, Mesa, Cameron, Soldano, etc. On the same cab soo many heads sounded extremely close, different cab and a much bigger difference.
My friend always say that people worry about have the best pickup, Guitar, amp but when is time to think in which speaker choose, people doesn't care so much. Here is the prove that speakers and cabinets (even with the same speaker) matter. Nice video 🔥
I actually agree that the cab is way more important than most guys think. Having said that, those 2 Heads are not representative for all heads. Ad in a 5150, a Rectifier, a Diezel, an Engl and a Marshall JVM maybe. The stuff that's being used on a lot on albums. I never even heard of the splawn, never seen it on a stage either. Maybe it's a good amp. I just think this should be done with a t least 7-8 different heads if such a claim is made. No hate, just an opinion.
I love seeing stuff like this. Time spent learning and experimenting is invaluable. You'll spend time failing and scrapping ideas, but that's just part of the process. It's still time put toward your 10,000 hours.
I've found through the years that different tube amps mostly only differ in the midrange frequencies and the cabs either help or hurt that tone, some cabs are bassier, while others have great midrange focus. I totally agree that the cab has more to do with the tonality than the head in use. My .02!
I'll add that if you put a mid range sweep pot, a high cut pot and a presence and resonance pot on any amp, you can make the amp sound good with any cab
Great video, a real ear opener 😁Friedman cab sounded best to me but I’d like to also hear the cabs in a room as the Friedman has 2 different speaker types. Played the Splawn and the JJ after one another and the Splawn is more in your face and abrasive while the Friedman has a sound that’s almost like it’s already produced. All comes down to taste (I bought the Friedman). The Friedman definitely has the better master volume and sounds great even when it’s super quiet. Splawn just goes from off to BAM! :)
Absolutely great video. I realized this about 4 years ago. I had an original 5150 big block and Bogner head. Though different heads it was very easy to get the same sound out of my Mesa recto 4x12. But when I used the heads in the other guitarist Marshall 60AV the tone was completely different. I ended up buying another cab was the end result and liquidated a few heads I had around. Now it’s the 5150 through the Mesa and the Bogner through a Marshall 60th anniversary over sized with v30’s in both cabs. 👍 great content!!! Keep it up. Always love to learn. If you aren’t learning something new each day, then your probably dead 💀.
This is a well-known fact among every serious producer (or even professional guitarist for that matter). Kristian Kohle even proved this on URM Academy already! However, you guys should only ever stop saying it when you stop seeing people accumulating amp heads for literally no reason at all. And given that people are still buying heavy guitars because of "tonewood", it's not gonna happen any time soon.
I have a splawn nitro 100. I have a 215 Vader loaded with Eminence legends and I have a 4:12 Vader loaded with Eminence legend 1275 and eminence man-of-wars. between the two cabinets just playing in a live situation on the same head there is a vast total difference. My nitro is the best head I've ever owned in my life. Thank you for your knowledge kind sir
After being introduced to, and having used IRs for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that amps are for gain, feel, and base tonality while cabs are for final tone shaping.
That's something I've never thought about, but it totally makes sense. The sound is air being moved. Most of the heads uses similar components and the output will not suffer any environmental influence. But the cabs will differ in size, material and construction. 🤔 Nice video, thanks for sharing this. Cheers.
Definitely more Kevin on here , Backroom Studio channel love it. This information sharing is where it’s at, plus you can get killer deals on cabs. Heads maybe
You are right, in that a head with different cab sizes and speaker combinations (15/12/10/8 inches) will yield far more tonal variations than owning a bunch of amps. If you can add to this owning amps that have tonal characteristics that are different to one another, ie; a Vox Vs a Fender, these amp's clean tones and overdriven tones are very different from one another. Being strategic about the gear and combinations you can make will make a minimalist setup sound pretty damn versatile.
I have a story that supports this. Years ago (this is in the mid-90's) I got a ugly ass frankenstein Carvin speaker cab when I traded this guy a Sunn Beta Lead (with a B channel that didn't work) for a 80's Peavey Butcher. This Carvin cab was originally a 4x10 guitar cab but somebody had "modded" it and put one big 18" in it. As you can imagine, an 18" in a tall and thin 4x10 enclosure looked dumb AF. The dude hated this thing so much he made me take the cab to get the trade. So fine, I took it. Thinking I'd trash the 18" and put 4x10's back in it. But I never did. Because the first time I played through it the thing was GD monster. Absolute godly heavy tone. When I switched from playing guitar in metal bands to bass in punk bands I kept that cab and it still sounded legendary. Didn't matter what I plugged it into. It just sounded big and full and heavy and awesome. I never opened it up, I just kept it for years and eventually got older, got married, had a kid - moved to a bedroom studio type setup. No more live playing so all my old live gear went into storage at my Pop's place. Earlier this year when my Pop passed away I had to deal with all that gear so I sold the amps, outboard gear, and cabs that were worth money and I had this one big ugly frankenstein Carvin cab with that 18 in it left over. Couldn't give it away locally. But I also couldn't just throw it away. On a whim I decided to keep the cab and buy some legit old Celestions or whatever and keep it. When I pulled that 18" out though to my surprise it was a 60's era "coffee can" Electro-Voice 18WK which according to one post on Ebay is worth $1500, lol. Who knows. Point being it's a high quality speaker, and something about how it worked in that particular cab made it sound fucking awesome. And THAT is the point to my long ass story.
Mate this can't be more true. I've slowly progressed jnto a hybrid of the digital world and found amazing tones by using a mix of IR, different physical cabs and speakers all attached to a brutal old peavey bandit. I've opened myself up to an infinite array of sounds and not done what I've used to which is stick to "my ultimate tone". You can really push an old amplifier as far as you want
Makes sense, The cabinet is what is giving the tone much like the body of an acoustic guitar and the wood it’s made out of versus something like similar string types.
I think the overall message is so true. Speaker cabinets make a hell of alot of difference to guitar tone. More than the amp ? Well, that depends, but speaker drivers are much underestimated for creating a personal guitar sound. Try 4 different speakers in a standard 4by12" cab and hook them up with a simple 4 way speaker switch. The most versatile, budget friendly (compared to amps) and compact setup for your home studio! I have a studio cab with: Celestion - Vintage 30 Eminence - Swamp Thang Celestion - G12H30 Eminence - Cannabis Rex
Fantastic stuff. Maybe do an IR vs real cab shootout. But create the IR from the real cab and compare how the two respond to palm mutes etc. In different IR loaders too as they all have different characteristics imparted to the sound. Cheers!
I figured this out years ago when I bought a Crate Blue Voodoo and couldn't fit the cab in my car. Brought the head home and hooked it up to my 5150 cab, and it sounded.... exactly like my 5150. Went back to pick up the cab, and out of curiousity hooked up the 5150 to the Crate cab, and it sounded... exactly like the blue voodoo. (Big difference in sound between the cabs, but almost no difference between the amps)
Agree 100% as I put my lunchbox ENGL Ironball amp into my Orange 4x12 amp for wall of sound compared to how thin it sounds through a much smaller Mesa 1x12 cab.
I've been saying this for years but nobody ever seemed to believe me. Its the same as the wood in a guitar with the same pickups. Awesome video, thanks for being awesome!!!
I'd like to see a video explaining why there is such a big difference. Are the cabs made of different woods? Is there different structural supports inside? Does having Tolex or cloth make a difference?
It makes sense in the context of an amp that plays metal, the curciut is so pushed that it should start to sound similar to other amps, its like you saturate and brighten a pichure enough, after a while the camera that took the pichure makes less difference. I think crunchy/clean sounds rely heavily on the amp as well as the cabinet as there should be more variables left in the amp
'A variety of cabs' takes way more space than 'a variety of heads'... Perhaps more feasible for most is to have a few convertible cabs and a wide variety of speakers. And yes, the amps used should've been more of a Mesa vs. Splawn or Fryette; Diezel vs Mesa vs Revv, etc...
@@givemeajackson Absolutely, I agree with you. I'm not contradicting that in my statement. My point is it takes much more real estate to own a variety of cabs , whereas a variety of speakers and one or two convertible cabs (specially if you have a way to add/take out acoustic absorption in the cab) can offer a wide palette of tones at a lower cost and with way less space. Heads are obviously much more expensive, but still take way less space.
That why as a guitar player who doesn’t own a studio, I just bought a Mooer Radar today. Tons of IR cabs in a tiny-ass pedal, that you can even add more to. Not to mention all the classic power amp IR’s, Graphic and Parametric EQ, all for $148.00, it’s a no-brainer for me. I still use an actual guitar rig, but it’s a Tech 21 Flyrig with some pedals and an EHX 44 Magnum into a 212 cab I made my myself loaded with an Eminence Wizard and Governor. This rig sounds good already, but I think the Radar is gonna be the icing on the cake, it may even eliminate a pedal or 2 on my board. All I need to gig with is my guitar, a guitar cable, speaker cable, my pedal board and my 212 cab. Also, no tubes to worry about. 👍 With the Radar, I could probably just run direct. I’m old-school, so I have a hard time trusting sound guys, I haven’t tried that yet, but I’m going to learn all about running direct for live and especially recording. I’m looking forward to it!
@URM Academy: So here’s my idea for a video and my thought process. MOST guitarists can’t have 4x12’s due to space and volume constraints, MOST guitarists do not want to lug a 4x12 to band practice every week, MOST guitarists only mic one speaker any way if they even mic at all, so could you please do a 1x12 Metal/Rock cab shootout? Could be same box and different speakers or different boxes like oversized, theile etc. This would afford the home musician the most flexibility as we could have multiple 1x’s to setup and record or test/tone chase with heads and gear, affording us the broadest pallet of tone available. It would also allow for better use of attenuators to crank tube amps without getting arrested for noise disturbances. Also portability and usually enough volume for most situations. BTW..really glad I found this channel. Strange it’s taken so long but better late than never. Thanks for everything you all do!
I agree with what you're saying about the impact of cabs. But there's still some impact in the head that's worth considering such as the character of the breakup and the headroom. There's not so much difference from head to head that you need to have dozens, but 2-3 with very different circuits will cover what you're doing. I personally have 1 high gain head and one that's voiced for more of a crunch/hard-rock OD tone, and they feel different played through the same head, but they are very different amp circuits.
The different cabs have the same speaker, mic and mic positioning on them but sound noticeably different.. Is it the shape of the cab? Different wood types? Size of the cab? What is it?
Great comparisson! I am struggling as to which cab to buy though. Going through the used market, there are TONS of cabs available, all having their own set of speakers. If you don't know exactly what you are going for, it is easy to get lost in speaker land...! And it even gets way crazier when you want to mix signals. At that point I am still having the perspective to just try my luck randomly and hope for the best. Plus: whatever great guitar sound you find: it will have to be polished to sit good in a mix. So an isolated guitar sound that really shines is nice, but that is not your end product anyhow.
I recognized that weeks ago. I record at home with plugins and bought some new higain amp plugins. Really expensive stuff. After I dialed in in the mix after mastering you couldn't hear barely a diffrence between the amps.
Blew my mind when I realized a while back that the cab makes more difference. I spent money on a head and didn't like it. Sold it, bought another. It was okay. Then bought a different cab. The cab blew my mind!
Most high gain preamps sound the same... so the main sound difference between ampheads comes from the design and type of poweramp. But i am still pretty sure you can find bigger sound variations between two "identical" speakers than two different high gain amps . So yea. More cab/speaker/mic choices is the way to go.
I certainly liked for both amps the Friedman and Diezel cabs better than the Bogner Uberschall which probably cones from their difference in size and with that the size of the reverberation room
Does cab selection affect anything other than EQ? If cabs are simply EQ filters, wouldn't it be easier to put multiple mics on a single cab, than moving one mic between multiple cabs?
Great video! 🤘🏻 Damn! So your cab makes more of a difference than the head... That's crazy! I figured it was the head that made more of a tonal difference. I would love to see this same comparison with using the same 4x12 cab, but comparing the same head, but with EL34B tubes, and then with 6L6 tubes. I'm running a Blackstar S1-100 EL34B head, and a Blackstar S1 Pro 4x12 cab with V30's, and it sounds amazing. There's a distinct difference between my Marshall VS100R head, and my Blackstar S1-100 head running through the same cab. However, I have noticed just how similar I can get the tone with the Marshall VS100R head, and my Diezel Herbert preamp pedal running through my Blackstar EL34B head. Interesting results for sure. I will make a comparison video of that someday.
Very little difference between power tubes. Specially in a mix. Specially if you are not hyper cranking the master volume (wich imho will make the amp less than stellar sounding).
Put in a variety of speakers into the same cab and mic each individually to get even more tonal options. Then put the same variety of speakers in the other cab too! You'll have 8 unique tones to play with, just from the cab/speaker combos.
I`ve tried about 40 new Celestion Vintage 30s (including 3 NEW MESA BOOGIE 2x12 cabs) and none of them sounded even close to what we hear on the well known recordings. I tried a few mics including SM57s, SM58, AKG Perception 200, Sennheiser e 609... Then I tried to buy some old speakers: 1988 Marshall V30 , 1995 Celestion G12H-100, 1999 C-90 and 1989 EVM12L and i was blown away. Those new speakers sound nothing like guitar tone we know and like.
Speakers need some time of usage to get their sound. New speakers, studio monitors as well, need time to swing in. Sorry, do not know how to translate that very good. What I want to say is that new speakers need many hours to be good. Like a new motor they need to be used for many hours. Its good to let them be running loops for some days.
@@johannsoncrusoe5589 I know about breaking in the speakers. Half of them I bought already used, another 10 were played by me with band for 2-3 years, 5 hours, 4 times per week and it didn`t help. I`m sure about what I write.
I stopped using cabs for home recording projects. I got the Two Notes Torpedo Cab M (with + firmware upgrade). Each cab & speaker has it's own character.
Though I do like showing how little amps change it's a bit obvious considering they are very similar amps (modded Marshall circuits). Comparing a cranked plexi with a pedal and a 5150 or a mesa mk2 and an engl would give much more varied results. That said the main point is true, cabs make huge differences, even similar speakers like say English v30 vs Chinese v30 are bigger differences than some amps.
I definitely agree with the message but as some others have said, it would have been a more effective comparison with 2 heads that aren’t basically the same thing. A rectifier has a different gain structure and feel than an orange or Marshall and each amp will work better in different musical context, due to their base voicing, compression etc. I think it’s worth having a couple of amps for different styles of music and then a good cab and mic selection. That being said there is also only so much variety and the majority of modern high gain heads that were released in the last years sound pretty similar as they’re all going for the same sound as well.
The diferences between preamps is the value of resistors in a combination with gain stage structure, the concept is pretty much the same for tube amps. Cabinets have different types of wood and structure that gives a acoustical element on guitar tone. Change the microfone is a another way to get different tones with the same cab/amp. Cheers!
great job! I have one question.... what do you think of the Marshall Mode Four 280 (oversized, closed und no more produced)... I run it with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and dual mic it with a SM57 and a condensor (Audio Technica ATX 20 -I think-). I am not happy with the tone when recording... und neither when playing witg it... :(
I’m about to just go grab like 4 or 5 little 8” cabinets just to pad the locker. Already got a Randall 8” and an Orange 8” for some portable amps I like using for busking.
I think the message still rings true but I think picking amps that aren't just based off the Marshall circuits would have made it a more interesting experiment. Like a Fender or Mesa would have been pretty drastic compared to the two chosen because they're farther from the hot rodded plexi sound.
Thank you for this! Wish there were more places in my area where you could jump from cab to cab. Ended up with a Traynor DHX 212 for my Revv G20. Have you ever tried the Revv cabs?
FYI those two heads share a lot of topology. They're both hotrod Marshalls. It'd have made more sense to do something like a 5150 vs JJ or Recto vs Nitro. Also a lot of the difference is front vs rear mount here.
That was totally unexpected - I thought you were going to show V30s vs other speakers and open back vs closed - obvious things. I wouldn't have anticipated these results with the same speaker in different cabs. Is it just the construction of the cabs? Front vs back mounted (on the baffle)? What is it? Very interesting.
It was so eye-opening to run my Kemper with a dozen different hi gain profiles through the 4x12 in my studio... and sometimes there was nearly no difference in tone. Most of them were in the same ballpark. Mmh. So yes, variety of tone: Buy different cabs or change speakers. Which is fun, btw.
Amp heads use to matter more when you wanted a certain tone but say only rectifiers had that low end chug. People use to talk about 1 and 2 tone amps now more amps are made versatile with things like tone modes, tube switching, and 3 and 4 channels. I say get a versatile amp head and create a Frankenstein 4x12 cab by putting 4 different speakers in it for mic'd up recording and another normal cab for gigs. Obviously that might take a while to get or afford but for a pro setup would be sweet.
maybe only a good quality 2x12-4x12 or 1x12, many many speakers from different brands make tones better. the brand only make some difference with the quality if you play live but for studio use a quality cab no matter the brand with many speakers give a huge variety of tones (?)
I really appreciate this video especially from the perspective of an engineer because I’m not a guitar player. Definitely cheaper to buy cabs then heads.
@@RandomUser179 His "even if you use a stupid modeler" comment made me chuckle. Adding $3600 and 250lbs of cabs to your studio to essentially get three different IRs in 2021 is pretty backwards. That's a huge amount of space and a good chunk of change to accomplish what can be done extremely effectively with IRs.
Dude are you from Woodstock Ontario?! You look SO much like a dude we played with and the engineer who did our album at the studio there in the early 2000s. Mastermind Studios
I have a pair of 2 X 12 Randall cabs. I would have almost gave them away . I HATED how they sounded. One day I got a new head and it just didn't sound how I wanted on the cab I wanted to use it with . Just for kicks I sat it on top of the two Randall cabs and it was magic. I have found that both the cab and head kinda either work together or they don't. But yes its not just the amp :).
It'd be long form, but I'd be interested in seeing how you'd approach mixing something in a genre that you don't normally mix. (You'd be free of the "what would the customer think?" limitation.)
so no one is gonna talk about the wii music on background?
I was just gonna say 😂
its so annoying
thanks I was trying so hard to remember where I've heard it before!
i wonder if it's royalty free
I think it's funny but aren't they gonna get a copyright strike for it?
Exactly why Impulse responses have taken off. Easy way of getting a bunch of cabs for cheap. lol Great video
The two amps used here are both essentially very similar hot-rodded Marshall-type circuits though. I feel like you’d hear a pretty noticeable difference comparing one of those to say, a Mesa Mark series that has a different circuit topology to it. I own both a VH4 and a Mark V myself and they sound and feel very different to me playing them through the same cab.
They don’t just pick anyone to come on here. This is a hot hot info platform.
I’d agree, the Mark V definitely has a distinctive tone vs my LBXii
Have you seen Ola’s amp shootout video? Almost all the amps he shoots out in that video sound the same, aside from the H&K Triamp.
The bottomline they’re trying to show is: there is much more difference between two cabs than between two amps.
Or in other words: 70-80% of a guitar sound comes from the speakers/cab, not the amp.
Gutwrencher Krahl - yes, I know what you’re saying. It’s even worse through my cheap-ass ear buds through youtube. I watched something like a 15 lunchbox shootout (sonic studios?) and could hardly tell a difference between any of them :o
I loved his work at the gas monkey garage so you know this guy knows his stuff.
Okay that was funny lol
hahaha
What in the fuck is splawn...you mean Todd macfarlanes splawn?
To be perfectly fair, the Splawn and JJ are already similar amps dus to both being based off modded Marshalls.
But I agree wholeheartedly that cabs are far more important.
Kevin's a great dude. Good to see he's on urm
Appreciate it!
On a related note: if you don't like your digital tones, put different IRs in the chain. Great IRs make everything sound great.
What he said.
what is IR?
Simon Hamel Impulse Response
Oh yes so true
Facts.
Would love to see Kevin on here regularly. He just mixed/mastered some of our music, very happy with his work.
On to the cabinets, i couldn't agree more. Our current favorite is the Friedman 412/15 this is a killer cab for Baritone guitars.
The G12H 30s are 55htz-15G15V-100 Fullback- this combo really works with amazing clarity.
Our 1991 Marshall has 2 GT75s and we just put in 2 Celestiion Alinco Cream. Then we have a Mesa, all are 4x12 minus the friedman.
We also have 7 eminence speakers that we move around from time to time. Best part is you can always find a old 4x12 cab on CL for $250-450
Love this channel , Cheers from Michigan
Thanks! more content on the way for you!
I didn’t even make it 2 minutes into this, and you got a new subscriber simply because of the Zelda and Nintendo related music. My guy, you’re amazing.
I feel like a cheap way to have just a taste of that is to have a solid and great variety of different cab IR's. Works for me, at least
I noticed that when I first got the raw signal of my Traynor running into a 4x12 Mesa Boogie IR. For an amp made for classic rock, it sounded absolutely huge.
I already agree with this conclusion based on the use of Wind Waker music in the background in the intro.
And Wii Sports 3:44 😂👍
you're welcome
🌽🌽🌽
Perfect examples: The Marshall MG amps everyone hates on, or any of the Valvestates that also get hated on. Throw away the shit cabs they come with and use a REAL cab like a 1960 A or B and these amps sound soooo much better.
yeah this! back in the day i would use my valvestate 100 combo with DI out into a cab sim and woah incredible tone.
yup a cheap amp head and great large cab is the way to go. No real need to spend 5k on a Diezel amp head.
Kevin Antreassian is such a smart and talented guy! more Kevin videos pls!
Been saying this for years after going to several ampfests where guys brought over all sorts of pricey heads from Bogner, Diezel, Mesa, Cameron, Soldano, etc. On the same cab soo many heads sounded extremely close, different cab and a much bigger difference.
My friend always say that people worry about have the best pickup, Guitar, amp but when is time to think in which speaker choose, people doesn't care so much. Here is the prove that speakers and cabinets (even with the same speaker) matter. Nice video 🔥
Fantastic Job. This is 100% true! I didn’t realize it until I got a universal audio OX.
Really blew me away. Definitely something to consider for sure! Thanks for the solid idea Kevin!
I actually agree that the cab is way more important than most guys think. Having said that, those 2 Heads are not representative for all heads. Ad in a 5150, a Rectifier, a Diezel, an Engl and a Marshall JVM maybe. The stuff that's being used on a lot on albums. I never even heard of the splawn, never seen it on a stage either. Maybe it's a good amp. I just think this should be done with a t least 7-8 different heads if such a claim is made. No hate, just an opinion.
I love seeing stuff like this. Time spent learning and experimenting is invaluable. You'll spend time failing and scrapping ideas, but that's just part of the process. It's still time put toward your 10,000 hours.
Johan Segeborn did something similar with vintage Marshall’s and cabs and speakers do make much more of a distinct difference than different amps do.
Johan is a tone scientist. He has taught me so much.
I've found through the years that different tube amps mostly only differ in the midrange frequencies and the cabs either help or hurt that tone, some cabs are bassier, while others have great midrange focus. I totally agree that the cab has more to do with the tonality than the head in use. My .02!
I'll add that if you put a mid range sweep pot, a high cut pot and a presence and resonance pot on any amp, you can make the amp sound good with any cab
@@riffsnreviews You can add 5150 matched Resonance and Presence to the effects loop with amptweaker depthfinder.
Great video, a real ear opener 😁Friedman cab sounded best to me but I’d like to also hear the cabs in a room as the Friedman has 2 different speaker types. Played the Splawn and the JJ after one another and the Splawn is more in your face and abrasive while the Friedman has a sound that’s almost like it’s already produced. All comes down to taste (I bought the Friedman). The Friedman definitely has the better master volume and sounds great even when it’s super quiet. Splawn just goes from off to BAM! :)
Absolutely great video. I realized this about 4 years ago. I had an original 5150 big block and Bogner head. Though different heads it was very easy to get the same sound out of my Mesa recto 4x12. But when I used the heads in the other guitarist Marshall 60AV the tone was completely different. I ended up buying another cab was the end result and liquidated a few heads I had around. Now it’s the 5150 through the Mesa and the Bogner through a Marshall 60th anniversary over sized with v30’s in both cabs. 👍 great content!!! Keep it up. Always love to learn. If you aren’t learning something new each day, then your probably dead 💀.
Never even the merest hint of bullshit with you, Kevin. I appreciate that.
This is a well-known fact among every serious producer (or even professional guitarist for that matter). Kristian Kohle even proved this on URM Academy already!
However, you guys should only ever stop saying it when you stop seeing people accumulating amp heads for literally no reason at all. And given that people are still buying heavy guitars because of "tonewood", it's not gonna happen any time soon.
I have a splawn nitro 100. I have a 215 Vader loaded with Eminence legends and I have a 4:12 Vader loaded with Eminence legend 1275 and eminence man-of-wars. between the two cabinets just playing in a live situation on the same head there is a vast total difference. My nitro is the best head I've ever owned in my life. Thank you for your knowledge kind sir
How about just owning one 4x12 for recording that has four different speakers in it to mic up?
Enjoyed all the Nintendo music in the background, especially the SMW credits music at the end.
After being introduced to, and having used IRs for a while now, I have come to the conclusion that amps are for gain, feel, and base tonality while cabs are for final tone shaping.
That's something I've never thought about, but it totally makes sense. The sound is air being moved. Most of the heads uses similar components and the output will not suffer any environmental influence. But the cabs will differ in size, material and construction. 🤔
Nice video, thanks for sharing this. Cheers.
Definitely more Kevin on here , Backroom Studio channel love it.
This information sharing is where it’s at, plus you can get killer deals on cabs. Heads maybe
You again...I agree, hope to see more Kevin on URM
Many amps do sound the same, when tweaked to match. Speakers do make a hell of a difference.
You are right, in that a head with different cab sizes and speaker combinations (15/12/10/8 inches) will yield far more tonal variations than owning a bunch of amps. If you can add to this owning amps that have tonal characteristics that are different to one another, ie; a Vox Vs a Fender, these amp's clean tones and overdriven tones are very different from one another. Being strategic about the gear and combinations you can make will make a minimalist setup sound pretty damn versatile.
I have a story that supports this. Years ago (this is in the mid-90's) I got a ugly ass frankenstein Carvin speaker cab when I traded this guy a Sunn Beta Lead (with a B channel that didn't work) for a 80's Peavey Butcher. This Carvin cab was originally a 4x10 guitar cab but somebody had "modded" it and put one big 18" in it. As you can imagine, an 18" in a tall and thin 4x10 enclosure looked dumb AF. The dude hated this thing so much he made me take the cab to get the trade. So fine, I took it. Thinking I'd trash the 18" and put 4x10's back in it. But I never did.
Because the first time I played through it the thing was GD monster. Absolute godly heavy tone. When I switched from playing guitar in metal bands to bass in punk bands I kept that cab and it still sounded legendary. Didn't matter what I plugged it into. It just sounded big and full and heavy and awesome. I never opened it up, I just kept it for years and eventually got older, got married, had a kid - moved to a bedroom studio type setup. No more live playing so all my old live gear went into storage at my Pop's place.
Earlier this year when my Pop passed away I had to deal with all that gear so I sold the amps, outboard gear, and cabs that were worth money and I had this one big ugly frankenstein Carvin cab with that 18 in it left over. Couldn't give it away locally. But I also couldn't just throw it away. On a whim I decided to keep the cab and buy some legit old Celestions or whatever and keep it. When I pulled that 18" out though to my surprise it was a 60's era "coffee can" Electro-Voice 18WK which according to one post on Ebay is worth $1500, lol. Who knows.
Point being it's a high quality speaker, and something about how it worked in that particular cab made it sound fucking awesome. And THAT is the point to my long ass story.
Mate this can't be more true. I've slowly progressed jnto a hybrid of the digital world and found amazing tones by using a mix of IR, different physical cabs and speakers all attached to a brutal old peavey bandit. I've opened myself up to an infinite array of sounds and not done what I've used to which is stick to "my ultimate tone". You can really push an old amplifier as far as you want
Makes sense, The cabinet is what is giving the tone much like the body of an acoustic guitar and the wood it’s made out of versus something like similar string types.
I think the overall message is so true. Speaker cabinets make a hell of alot of difference to guitar tone. More than the amp ? Well, that depends, but speaker drivers are much underestimated for creating a personal guitar sound. Try 4 different speakers in a standard 4by12" cab and hook them up with a simple 4 way speaker switch. The most versatile, budget friendly (compared to amps) and compact setup for your home studio! I have a studio cab with:
Celestion - Vintage 30
Eminence - Swamp Thang
Celestion - G12H30
Eminence - Cannabis Rex
Fantastic stuff. Maybe do an IR vs real cab shootout. But create the IR from the real cab and compare how the two respond to palm mutes etc. In different IR loaders too as they all have different characteristics imparted to the sound. Cheers!
I figured this out years ago when I bought a Crate Blue Voodoo and couldn't fit the cab in my car. Brought the head home and hooked it up to my 5150 cab, and it sounded.... exactly like my 5150. Went back to pick up the cab, and out of curiousity hooked up the 5150 to the Crate cab, and it sounded... exactly like the blue voodoo. (Big difference in sound between the cabs, but almost no difference between the amps)
Agree 100% as I put my lunchbox ENGL Ironball amp into my Orange 4x12 amp for wall of sound compared to how thin it sounds through a much smaller Mesa 1x12 cab.
I've been saying this for years but nobody ever seemed to believe me. Its the same as the wood in a guitar with the same pickups. Awesome video, thanks for being awesome!!!
I'd like to see a video explaining why there is such a big difference. Are the cabs made of different woods? Is there different structural supports inside? Does having Tolex or cloth make a difference?
It makes sense in the context of an amp that plays metal, the curciut is so pushed that it should start to sound similar to other amps, its like you saturate and brighten a pichure enough, after a while the camera that took the pichure makes less difference. I think crunchy/clean sounds rely heavily on the amp as well as the cabinet as there should be more variables left in the amp
I've thought this for years...that is why I only have 3 heads and 8 different cabs. Well done! 🤘🤘🤘
"aside from doing recordings for 15 years"
Subtle flex.
'A variety of cabs' takes way more space than 'a variety of heads'... Perhaps more feasible for most is to have a few convertible cabs and a wide variety of speakers. And yes, the amps used should've been more of a Mesa vs. Splawn or Fryette; Diezel vs Mesa vs Revv, etc...
There's much more to a cab than just the speaker. An orange PPC has the same v30s as a recto oversized, and they sound very different.
@@givemeajackson Absolutely, I agree with you. I'm not contradicting that in my statement. My point is it takes much more real estate to own a variety of cabs , whereas a variety of speakers and one or two convertible cabs (specially if you have a way to add/take out acoustic absorption in the cab) can offer a wide palette of tones at a lower cost and with way less space. Heads are obviously much more expensive, but still take way less space.
That why as a guitar player who doesn’t own a studio, I just bought a Mooer Radar today. Tons of IR cabs in a tiny-ass pedal, that you can even add more to. Not to mention all the classic power amp IR’s, Graphic and Parametric EQ, all for $148.00, it’s a no-brainer for me. I still use an actual guitar rig, but it’s a Tech 21 Flyrig with some pedals and an EHX 44 Magnum into a 212 cab I made my myself loaded with an Eminence Wizard and Governor. This rig sounds good already, but I think the Radar is gonna be the icing on the cake, it may even eliminate a pedal or 2 on my board. All I need to gig with is my guitar, a guitar cable, speaker cable, my pedal board and my 212 cab. Also, no tubes to worry about. 👍 With the Radar, I could probably just run direct. I’m old-school, so I have a hard time trusting sound guys, I haven’t tried that yet, but I’m going to learn all about running direct for live and especially recording. I’m looking forward to it!
SPLAWN WITH THE FRIEDMAN CAB THO
Same comparison. Condenser mic with a flat response. 5 feet away from each cab. Try to the the "in the room" sound
@URM Academy: So here’s my idea for a video and my thought process. MOST guitarists can’t have 4x12’s due to space and volume constraints, MOST guitarists do not want to lug a 4x12 to band practice every week, MOST guitarists only mic one speaker any way if they even mic at all, so could you please do a 1x12 Metal/Rock cab shootout? Could be same box and different speakers or different boxes like oversized, theile etc. This would afford the home musician the most flexibility as we could have multiple 1x’s to setup and record or test/tone chase with heads and gear, affording us the broadest pallet of tone available. It would also allow for better use of attenuators to crank tube amps without getting arrested for noise disturbances. Also portability and usually enough volume for most situations.
BTW..really glad I found this channel. Strange it’s taken so long but better late than never. Thanks for everything you all do!
I agree with what you're saying about the impact of cabs. But there's still some impact in the head that's worth considering such as the character of the breakup and the headroom. There's not so much difference from head to head that you need to have dozens, but 2-3 with very different circuits will cover what you're doing. I personally have 1 high gain head and one that's voiced for more of a crunch/hard-rock OD tone, and they feel different played through the same head, but they are very different amp circuits.
I kept telling a friend this about different cabs with same speakers that they will sound Different !!! THANK U BRO !!!
I recently watched some video about tone color and choosing brighter cabs for darker heads etc.
The different cabs have the same speaker, mic and mic positioning on them but sound noticeably different.. Is it the shape of the cab? Different wood types? Size of the cab? What is it?
Great comparisson! I am struggling as to which cab to buy though. Going through the used market, there are TONS of cabs available, all having their own set of speakers. If you don't know exactly what you are going for, it is easy to get lost in speaker land...! And it even gets way crazier when you want to mix signals. At that point I am still having the perspective to just try my luck randomly and hope for the best. Plus: whatever great guitar sound you find: it will have to be polished to sit good in a mix. So an isolated guitar sound that really shines is nice, but that is not your end product anyhow.
I recognized that weeks ago. I record at home with plugins and bought some new higain amp plugins. Really expensive stuff. After I dialed in in the mix after mastering you couldn't hear barely a diffrence between the amps.
Blew my mind when I realized a while back that the cab makes more difference. I spent money on a head and didn't like it. Sold it, bought another. It was okay. Then bought a different cab. The cab blew my mind!
I'm still looking for a cab that gives that fat tone I use a palmer cab with greenback speakers but it's not the real deal witch cab did you buy!?
@@daan3192 I had a cheap 4x12 Marshall cab and now a 2x12 Mesa recto cab. Selected the 2x12 over 4x12 because of weight and size and love it.
Super Mario World endgame music in the background......love it! 🤣
Most high gain preamps sound the same... so the main sound difference between ampheads comes from the design and type of poweramp.
But i am still pretty sure you can find bigger sound variations between two "identical" speakers than two different high gain amps .
So yea. More cab/speaker/mic choices is the way to go.
Do you have any other splawn heads that you could do more through different cabinets
The new thing I learned from this was how much better the Splawn sounds compared to the Friedman JJ.
I certainly liked for both amps the Friedman and Diezel cabs better than the Bogner Uberschall which probably cones from their difference in size and with that the size of the reverberation room
Does cab selection affect anything other than EQ? If cabs are simply EQ filters, wouldn't it be easier to put multiple mics on a single cab, than moving one mic between multiple cabs?
Now that was a good one! Thank you.
Great video! 🤘🏻
Damn! So your cab makes more of a difference than the head... That's crazy! I figured it was the head that made more of a tonal difference.
I would love to see this same comparison with using the same 4x12 cab, but comparing the same head, but with EL34B tubes, and then with 6L6 tubes.
I'm running a Blackstar S1-100 EL34B head, and a Blackstar S1 Pro 4x12 cab with V30's, and it sounds amazing. There's a distinct difference between my Marshall VS100R head, and my Blackstar S1-100 head running through the same cab. However, I have noticed just how similar I can get the tone with the Marshall VS100R head, and my Diezel Herbert preamp pedal running through my Blackstar EL34B head. Interesting results for sure. I will make a comparison video of that someday.
Very little difference between power tubes. Specially in a mix. Specially if you are not hyper cranking the master volume (wich imho will make the amp less than stellar sounding).
Put in a variety of speakers into the same cab and mic each individually to get even more tonal options. Then put the same variety of speakers in the other cab too! You'll have 8 unique tones to play with, just from the cab/speaker combos.
I`ve tried about 40 new Celestion Vintage 30s (including 3 NEW MESA BOOGIE 2x12 cabs) and none of them sounded even close to what we hear on the well known recordings. I tried a few mics including SM57s, SM58, AKG Perception 200, Sennheiser e 609... Then I tried to buy some old speakers: 1988 Marshall V30 , 1995 Celestion G12H-100, 1999 C-90 and 1989 EVM12L and i was blown away. Those new speakers sound nothing like guitar tone we know and like.
G12H
Speakers need some time of usage to get their sound. New speakers, studio monitors as well, need time to swing in. Sorry, do not know how to translate that very good. What I want to say is that new speakers need many hours to be good. Like a new motor they need to be used for many hours. Its good to let them be running loops for some days.
They eq the shit out of guitar recordings
@@johannsoncrusoe5589 I know about breaking in the speakers. Half of them I bought already used, another 10 were played by me with band for 2-3 years, 5 hours, 4 times per week and it didn`t help. I`m sure about what I write.
@@piotrczernikiewicz no critcism :) Jusz my thoughts on the issue
I stopped using cabs for home recording projects. I got the Two Notes Torpedo Cab M (with + firmware upgrade). Each cab & speaker has it's own character.
What about playing featured guitars through bass cabs?
I typed detuned not featured!
Though I do like showing how little amps change it's a bit obvious considering they are very similar amps (modded Marshall circuits). Comparing a cranked plexi with a pedal and a 5150 or a mesa mk2 and an engl would give much more varied results. That said the main point is true, cabs make huge differences, even similar speakers like say English v30 vs Chinese v30 are bigger differences than some amps.
+20 points for the wind waker music in the background
I definitely agree with the message but as some others have said, it would have been a more effective comparison with 2 heads that aren’t basically the same thing. A rectifier has a different gain structure and feel than an orange or Marshall and each amp will work better in different musical context, due to their base voicing, compression etc. I think it’s worth having a couple of amps for different styles of music and then a good cab and mic selection.
That being said there is also only so much variety and the majority of modern high gain heads that were released in the last years sound pretty similar as they’re all going for the same sound as well.
I SAW DILLINGER BOI, I CLICKED, IM A SIMPLE BOI
Were the ohms the same on the speakers?
The diferences between preamps is the value of resistors in a combination with gain stage structure, the concept is pretty much the same for tube amps. Cabinets have different types of wood and structure that gives a acoustical element on guitar tone. Change the microfone is a another way to get different tones with the same cab/amp. Cheers!
Great video!!! Looking forward to your new music to be released!
great job! I have one question.... what do you think of the Marshall Mode Four 280 (oversized, closed und no more produced)... I run it with a Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and dual mic it with a SM57 and a condensor (Audio Technica ATX 20 -I think-). I am not happy with the tone when recording... und neither when playing witg it... :(
Wow I’m blown away man, definitely going to go get more cabs from now on.
Are these room mics?
I’m about to just go grab like 4 or 5 little 8” cabinets just to pad the locker. Already got a Randall 8” and an Orange 8” for some portable amps I like using for busking.
I think the message still rings true but I think picking amps that aren't just based off the Marshall circuits would have made it a more interesting experiment. Like a Fender or Mesa would have been pretty drastic compared to the two chosen because they're farther from the hot rodded plexi sound.
Thank you for this! Wish there were more places in my area where you could jump from cab to cab. Ended up with a Traynor DHX 212 for my Revv G20. Have you ever tried the Revv cabs?
This guy is hilarious and informative. Loved it
Very interesting and valuable info!! Well done!!!
FYI those two heads share a lot of topology. They're both hotrod Marshalls. It'd have made more sense to do something like a 5150 vs JJ or Recto vs Nitro. Also a lot of the difference is front vs rear mount here.
MORE Torrential Downpour PLEEAAASSEEE!!!!
That was totally unexpected - I thought you were going to show V30s vs other speakers and open back vs closed - obvious things. I wouldn't have anticipated these results with the same speaker in different cabs. Is it just the construction of the cabs? Front vs back mounted (on the baffle)? What is it? Very interesting.
It was so eye-opening to run my Kemper with a dozen different hi gain profiles through the 4x12 in my studio... and sometimes there was nearly no difference in tone. Most of them were in the same ballpark. Mmh. So yes, variety of tone: Buy different cabs or change speakers. Which is fun, btw.
Amp heads use to matter more when you wanted a certain tone but say only rectifiers had that low end chug. People use to talk about 1 and 2 tone amps now more amps are made versatile with things like tone modes, tube switching, and 3 and 4 channels. I say get a versatile amp head and create a Frankenstein 4x12 cab by putting 4 different speakers in it for mic'd up recording and another normal cab for gigs. Obviously that might take a while to get or afford but for a pro setup would be sweet.
maybe only a good quality 2x12-4x12 or 1x12, many many speakers from different brands make tones better.
the brand only make some difference with the quality if you play live but for studio use a quality cab no matter the brand with many speakers give a huge variety of tones (?)
I made basically this same video/opinion on IGTV a few weeks ago and got all kinds of flack. Thanks for confirming my hypothesis 🤘🏻🤘🏻
Winder Waker OST tho, bless you.
Anyhoo, I quite like Orange cabs.
I really appreciate this video especially from the perspective of an engineer because I’m not a guitar player. Definitely cheaper to buy cabs then heads.
Cab simulation is pretty much spot on with how good some IR loaders sound. More like amp heads and cabs are slowly becoming obsolete.
@@RandomUser179 His "even if you use a stupid modeler" comment made me chuckle. Adding $3600 and 250lbs of cabs to your studio to essentially get three different IRs in 2021 is pretty backwards. That's a huge amount of space and a good chunk of change to accomplish what can be done extremely effectively with IRs.
I loved the background music!
Randall Warhead has entered the chat.
Dude are you from Woodstock Ontario?! You look SO much like a dude we played with and the engineer who did our album at the studio there in the early 2000s. Mastermind Studios
I have a pair of 2 X 12 Randall cabs. I would have almost gave them away . I HATED how they sounded. One day I got a new head and it just didn't sound how I wanted on the cab I wanted to use it with . Just for kicks I sat it on top of the two Randall cabs and it was magic. I have found that both the cab and head kinda either work together or they don't. But yes its not just the amp :).
Surely your cab recording space doesn’t have that much room tone being captured?
How can the sound be that roomy with a close miking?
It bled through my talkback
It'd be long form, but I'd be interested in seeing how you'd approach mixing something in a genre that you don't normally mix. (You'd be free of the "what would the customer think?" limitation.)
Please try same cabinet, same speaker but in different format like Mesa Cab with V30 in 4x12, 2x12 or even 1x12.
Here’s such a comparison with a Zilla cab: ruclips.net/video/L9sWIk00Hk4/видео.html