Black Medieval Armor? Maybe not.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- Just a quick, if unorthodox, little demonstration of a phenomenon in historical paintings of armor that I've just noticed recently. Apologies if it's obvious and I'm just behind the times haha. Anyway, just doing my part to keep things straight about the preponderance of black armor, since what we see may not always be what we'd like.
Hoodies and stuff:
teespring.com/...
Living Manuscript on Facebook:
/ livingmanuscript
Not sure on the legitimacy of this, but theres also the possibility of it being a silver pigmemt with a silver to white grey fade/gradient, and the silver has oxidized over time (has been mentioned before on Ian Laspinas channel in reference to blackened mail)
Absolutely, that is occasionally the case as well. I even added a little card to Ian's video 21 seconds in 😀. I think soon I would like to make a video discussing various ways to discern black armor in similar paintings and the like.
It could also be from the way that they used to rust proof metal by using lard which was then burned to create a black finish. Or the artist could have even painted real silver onto canvas which then tarnished over many years. Take this with a grain of salt however there isn't anything I can say is definitive.
Definitely! I'm not certain what the method they used to blacken the armor was originally, but that's certainly an option. And you're right, silver was used frequently in manuscripts to provide a sort of highlight to particular characters. I'm not sure how often that technique was used in these sorts of paintings though, it would probably be worth it to explore each one specifically to get a good idea about that.
Lard? I have heard of linseed oil several times, but not lard.
At first i thought this was an artistic/unique way of filming lol
I, for one, was proud of my artistic use of spoons haha.
Wait didn't the black colour is a type of acid that is mix with the armour to reduce rusting
Plot twist: There is no spoon.
I love your videos, so awesome to see the progress and in this case just an interesting explanation and reasoning behind black armor
Okay so maybe black armor wasn't as a huge of a thing as we thought it was.
Alright, I'll admit that.
But!
It's still COOOOOOL AS FUCK.
This spoon view is cool.
Glad you appreciate it :)
Wow thx for this vid I was plannin to blacken my mail armour for reenactment
Just in time! I can't speak much to maille armor though. It could easily be effected by the same thing as plate armor.
That's actually a really good point that I, and I imagine a lot of other people, never thought about.
It's definitely not something that is readily seen in isolation. But once you know about it it becomes hard to not look for haha
painting reflective surfaces is also a major pain, it could have been easier for the painter and less distracting for the view as a proper reflection would take your eye away from the focus of the piece
ruclips.net/video/QkRMn3pQokc/видео.html - the black and white finish armour in the Royal Armouries in Leeds isn't shiny, but blued armour and painted armour really stand out and require further work after finishing the harness, so perhaps it's a status thing?
I have a suit of black armor, and when oiled it looks quite glossy and you can even see some obscured reflections in it.
Edit: grammar
But would the interior in the medieval period be black?
... black being reflected on the armors worn on an open air battlefield during Day? ?
And i dont think the artist would have thought about the reflections..
A lot of it comes down to practicing proper scrutiny on each example, in areas that are well lit, like an open air battlefield like you say, then you would be correct that it would make little sense for the reflections to be black. However, many of these depictions are not on a battlefield, but rather a chamber or some sort of building, where there would be shadowy interiors that would reflect on the armor, making it appear black.
As for reflections, artists had been utilizing them since at least the first half of the 15th century as far as medieval Europe is concerned. In Jan Van Eyck's _Arnolfini Portrait_ from 1434, his own reflection can be seen on a literal mirror between the two subjects, and more closely related to armor, Hans Memling's _Saint Ursula Shrine_ shows the faces of people reflecting on armor plates.
@@LivingManuscript
But then the armor wouldnt be entirely painted black, the painter would have added white spots to show that indeed the black is only a reflection
In many instances that's the case. You may be interested in this image, where the armorer, who is wearing it, assured that the armor is in fact polished to a mirror finish. Yet when placed in a dark area it is remarkably similar to what is seen in many paintings.
www.pinterest.com/pin/489977634460172156#
Again though, not every depiction of armor that looks black but is actually white is truly white. Often times it's difficult to tell and one must look for other details in the painting, such as what color the weapons are, since they are also steel. One that I was able to find off the cuff was this:
www.pinterest.com/pin/489977634460172254#
As you can see, the sword is a completely different color from the *very* black armor. But also, like you brought up before, they are outdoors, where polished armor would certainly not appear black, so we are brought to the conclusion that this armor must be black. So while some of these depictions do indeed show black armor, not all of them are.
@@LivingManuscript
Okay, thanks for the pinterest links :)
That's quite an interesting subject, but blackened armor is rust resustant and doesnt scratch like mirror polished armor do
Sure thing! There's definitely a lot to just this one particular topic, I'm hoping to explore it some more in the near future.
In battle or Ankara, Doukas describes Serbian knights led by despot Stefan Lazarevic as "encased in black armor". Their armor reflected arrows from Timur's composite bows that did minor damage to the cavalry. And this is at least 20-30 years before black armor became prevalent in Western miniatures, or before Corvinus's Black Army, or even before Zavisa the Black (Polish medieval hero). Therefore, I wouldn't totally disregard black plate armor as a mere artistic trend.
They did dye armour black in the 15th to 16th centuries.
Source?
I've heard that armor was blackened by acid armourers, acid of which was used to prevent rusting and such. Though I'm not sure if this is true or not, it IS a possible theory.
Interesting points made. I too like looking at painting of armor, they have alot of very good important details.
Definitely! They often capture many small things that can be easily missed in less detailed depictions.
As You might know there is the the blackened armor which was popular in the 16-17th C. because this treatment was a cheaper method of guarding the armor against rust.
These armors don’t stand out as at least in our times they have a Matt almost stealthy look.
The high-end expensive armors were blued.
A high polished armor was also expensive and reserved for the elite.
It has been said that many museum armors have been polished in the 18-19th C.
I do believe many armors must have been rusty, blackened.
Only the rich could afford a portrait of themselves in armor, they could ask the artist to pimp their outfit or their looks to the latest fashion!
Fashion seems to have been just as important to show ones success....
About Your point. Interesting, At least for the realistic paintings indoors.
But do take in account the points mentioned
You're absolutely right. In fact, I intend to explore these things in another video sometime in the near future. Although this video was aimed specifically at the one particular point, not necessarily to disprove anything but just provide some insight into a small topic that isn't always very intuitive.
Neat!
bllack armor was recorded to be worn by serbian knights in the early 15th century
now here's a question. how do you make Armour black without using paint? im doing a black knight build for a client, not a Monty python knight, and they want the Armour to be a very dark color. such as black.
I'm still trying to figure out the historical method they used in the past, although there are several ways that modern armorers blacken the steel. Some are unabashedly modern like using chemicals, but some are historically viable such as using linseed oil and heat or lard, as another gentleman commented earlier. One of my buddies blackened his armor using some sort of gun blueing chemical that seemed to hold up pretty well, so you may be interested in trying that out.
my stupid ass thought it was a car mirror....
I normally don't bother Liking videos, but I just had to on this one. This video was really a life-changing experience☆!
Glad I could make such a good impression!
Doesn't make sense as to why a medieval artist would paint it black. Oxidation of the silver pigment to black is known to occur from white and silver pigments from the period and is more likely. Sound analysis of the question would be helpful this presentation is not.
You are correct :) Oxidation of the silver used in pigments certainly did occur. However, If my understanding of the paintings shown early in the video is correct, they were painted using oil pigments without trace of silver. In these cases, the black finish may have been intentional while also existing at the same time as silver in other representations.
@LivingManuscript Yes, thank you. I concur. Not all light pigments from the period would oxidize. The answer is of course that the armours were painted black because they were. The presenter's notion that the artists were painting the sense of colour they experienced from reflection is ridiculous. There aren't many medieval armours extant - and though I'm not an expert on armours, I don't know of any blackened medieval types in collections. There are however, very many extant renaissance and 30 Years War period armours that are blackened. The answer is simply that in the early to mid15th century blackened armours were in style they then went out of fashion for awhile until in the late 15th, 16th and early 17th centuries blackened armours remained popular, until the abandonment of armour entirely. The simple fact is that the artists had regular exposure to what they were painting and knew how to paint it. The video presentation doesn't make sense.
kermit thee frog heere
But, but black armour is so cool... Shame it isn't historically accurate.
Black armor did exist historically, this video was meant primarily as a warning to avoid the pitfall of not examining artwork closely enough. There are a few pictures of armor included which feature actual black armor in this video actually. One way to tell is to find weapons in the same image as armor and see if they are a silvery-steel color, or are also black. If the weapon is black as well as the armor, then it's likely the case of what I illustrate in the video. But if the weapon is the polished steel color and the armor appears black, then it's likely that the armor is actually black :)
@@LivingManuscript Ok. Thanks. I'm happy I'll be able to make some armour with a black finish without triggering my historical accuracy special sense lol. I have yet to learn everything about armour making, but I'm really willing to, thanks to your awesome videos mainly.
Black armour still looks epic tho
Can't argue with that
Ложка серьёзно?
DEUS VULT
huuuhm noooo that is not orange its mandarina, oranges are much bigger....and for any one who things thats clemenitne, theyre not clementines eather...theyre mandarine!! :D XD
Damn, you caught me 😂