This RC Almost KILLED Arrma! Nero Review & Traxxas Lawsuit Story!
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- Опубликовано: 26 ноя 2024
- Let's take a look at the Arrma Nero 1/8 Scale RC Basher and tell the story of how Traxxas Lawsuits have affected the hobby! Would this have been the best basher ever killing the Kraton and even the Sledge?
It really is a miracle that ARRMA has survived to this day. And I love them for it. Traxxas is doing things to prevent other companies, especially new ones with innovative ideas and new ideology from partaking in the industry. After all, if you control an industry and have no real competitors, you can really do whatever you want including putting big price tags on their products. You're definitely getting more of your money's worth in individual parts when choosing ARRMA. Traxxas has a tendency to charge same or even more for similar scale vehicles as ARRMA even though they heavily rely on plastic.
I don't really mind the plastic as modern plastics are very good but Traxxas does seem to be increasing their prices beyond what everybody else is charging these days
I really enjoy your take on RC. More from a technical/engineering and historical perspective, something I haven't found anywhere else on YT. Don't stop this format, it's a much needed departure from everyone else on RUclips. I appreciate the amount of effort you put into these types of videos and hope the more technical videos like these continue!
Glad you're enjoying the format I really like doing it!
I remeber I used to really dislike Traxxas way back when I first got into RC. I forget the real reason, probably due to proprietary stuff. Then when I got back into RC recently, I considered getting a Traxxas and forgetting my prior dislike of the brand. Then as I looked into Traxxas more, I started disliking them all over again because of the proprietary BS. Then I heard about and looked into the Nero and other various lawsuits. Now I will for sure NEVER buy anything Traxxas. The industry would be better off without them at this point. They have only hindred innovation. No way they should have ever won the the suspension lawsuit, as it's a common design in vehicles. There are probably still designs that RC companies don't even want to bother with, because they are worried the bully of the industry would come after them.
It's entirely possible.
My story is very similar. As a teenager in the ’90s, I dissed Traxxas because they weren’t a ”true” racing brand like Team Associated, Team Losi, and Yokomo. Looking back, it was immature. When I got back into the hobby some years ago, I realized they make really good products even if some of the tech is proprietary. I thought I had grown up and would consider one for other than racing purposes.
After hearing about these lawsuits and the things they have been able to patent… I’m kind of mad at the patent registry for making such mistakes but at least they didn’t know better. Traxxas knows full well that they hold many patents for things that existed prior to them filing the papers.
Traxxas basically killed HPI because of that rubber gasket on the radio box seal to stop water ingress and Traxxas were like "This simple common sense idea is actually our patented technology". They're patent trolls and I hate that they're not blacklisted by the hobby since they'll happily destroy it if given half a chance.
That diffbrain seems like a fantastic idea , that kind of control would be a blast to play with ! another really cool video my friend
Yeah it really does change the feel of the car. I would have liked to have seen it get developed into something a bit more durable with seal differentials which I'm sure they would have done had it not been killed.
Traxxas is the black eye of the industry. Protecting your IP is one thing. Crippling other companies and attacking a company in a completely different industry over a name is wild.
It does seem kind of ridiculous.
@@DoRC how about an acronym perhaps?
WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) was sued and had to change their name from WWF (World Wrestling Federation) a name they had operated under for decades...
Because the WWF (World Wildlife Fund) sued them.
But Traxxas is the bad guy here... this is nothing new in the world. That's why patents and copyrights exist.
@@TimMcVey Well I think that two companies using the exact same name acronym could definitely be considered problematic More so than a TV and movie media company using a variation of a name from a toy model company for one of their channels.
I also don't really think defending a valid patent is a bad thing necessarily but when a company patents something that has been common knowledge for decades it makes me feel a little less warm and fuzzy about it. That type of suspension not only had been used in full sized cars for a very long time but it'd even been used on RC cars for a while. Traxxas didn't come up with anything new they just took a design that already existed and patented it.
@@DoRC I agree with you completely. My point was, if they are going to issue patents and enforce them for acronums of names... and Traxxas holds a Patent on Maxx naming... I can see where they would go after that too.
They could of easily went another route, they knew they were stealing ideas😂😂😂
Great video, I really enjoyed hearing about the history while seeing the insides of the truck. You outdid yourself on this one.
As for Traxxas, last year I sold off every Traxxas I owned except for a TRX-4 I have sentimental attachment to. I'll never buy another vehicle from them.
I can definitely understand that standpoint. Glad you enjoyed :-)
A huge chunk of the patents Traxxas owns are designs that have been in use for a very long time already or are extremely generalized; they shouldnt have gotten them in the first place. Pushrod suspension, central steering arms, or o-rings to seal boxes are age old inventions. Traxxas goal isnt to protect themselves, but to shoot down any possible competition; this behaviour even has a name: "patent trolling". They dont even expect to win in court, often the goal is just to destroy the competition with years of cease and desist orders.
The problem is that they somehow even get these patents registered.
Funnily enough these types of patents arent even recognized by the EU in some cases. For an example: Asetek was the sole producer of all in one watercooling devices for a long time, due to a patent on putting the pump and cooler plate in the same housing. When a European manufacturer stepped in they tried to sue them. The European court simply said: thats such a generalized patent that we wont recognize it.
Yeah this feels very similar to the asetek thing. Patenting a already well-known or pretty broad concept just to prevent other people from competing feels like it's only good for the company doing it.
I got one of these almost new condition! Love it so much I don't want to wreck it. But lovely RC with cool features for sure!
Yeah I bought one that had some use on it already just for that very reason. I knew I was going to bash it and I didn't want to tear up a brand new one.
Great story, a very unique design for a RC, I’ve personally never seen a design like that. Keep doing more old school vids about RCs. I enjoy the history.
Glad you enjoyed thanks for watching :-)
Wow, being kind of new to electric RCs, I learned a lot in this video. That Nero does look really nice though.
It's a really fun car. I'm a little nervous to run it just because it is old and plastics get brittle but it's pretty cool for what it is.
You always make the best videos! Very much appreciated!
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
Traxxas seriously made me dislike them with the recent name lawsuits. Do I think they have 1 or 2 cool rigs sure, will I go out of my way to own one no way. Thankfully I don't have easy access to the brand anyway.
Yeah they've been at it for quite a while. I can definitely understand wanting to protect IP but I can also understand people not wanting to support them.
why even comment then
Bought my first Nero from Tower Hobbies, then bought two more and all three had the diff-brain! You can run anything from scale trail lines at 5mph. To blazing the tires on any terrain you can find!! To me this is the ultimate scale trail running monster Truck!!!
I sold the first Nero and after the sale was done, I contacted tower hobbies and got a 3rd Nero for the sales price. So I bought the Fazon also! I would sell every traxxas I currently own today, for a few more Nero Tricks!!!!!!
It's definitely a pretty cool truck!
Not just cuz I'm a fan of arrma, I think traxxas will look for a lawsuit if they feel threatened. Tamiya don't do bashers or anything significantly threatening to traxxas. So I feel like they won't flip that stone. Traxxas would just assume essentially own the industry. They are over priced and generally more fragile platforms. And it's interesting because the last fee years traxxas reaks of hypocrisy. They put out the sledge and that body is as close as you can get to mocking the shape of a kraton without throwing their own sticker over an arrma logo. I won't get into layout cuz hey its a truggy. I also feel like traxxas ignores the fact that every company needs competition.
Also i liked this video. I think these kind of videos are refreshing and informative and great for newcomers to the hobby. Despite my griping about traxxas, i think a delve into their street sport line would be cool.
I'll definitely keep that in mind thanks for watching :-)
Tamiya as Company would also eat Traxxas alive
@@adrianharrison5208 possibly
Yes needs a a competition but not their design copied.... and this car steals quite a bit from the summit's insides......
@maszkalman3676 I'm not saying that isn't what happened here but I'm also not saying that it is what happened here. Arrma and many others have had cv center driveshafts. A hidden/protected battery tray(uncited) and a cantilever suspension ( that is not traxxas's invention) isn't worth saying they stole the summits insides. Traxxas indeed utilized all the above and beat anyone else to the patent finish line and being the greedy nervous hemroids traxxas are, they jumped the chance to try n take them down. Traxxas would just assume own the industry
I think the battery box patent is wack. An innovation that should be universally used imo thanks for the cool video. Very informative
I don't really mind companies protecting their own unique ideas but it seems like at least some of the Traxxas patents certainly we're not based on unique ideas.
One of the drawbacks of it but im sure on the v2 or higher it would have become a top loader instead of a bottom one.
Love me some Traxxas. I own 7 Traxxas vehicles and 2 Arrma. Got back into the hobby 20 something years ago with a Rustler, which still runs great to this day (upgrades and repairs, of course)
Yeah a lot of the cars they make are really cool
Really like the information on older RC.
Thanks I really enjoyed making it!
@@DoRC Do you got a ofna MBX PRO buggy
Sorry no I don't
@@DoRC I just finished about a month ago completing my Mugen MBX5T nitro I raced 15 years ago. It’s so fun to restore them. Love the channel.
@@FYRC15 nice!
I only got into hobby RC a few years ago but it’s very interesting how much it changed in a short period of time from the 2000s and onward.
That being said it feels like I got into RC at the perfect time.
Things have changed a bunch just in the last 10 years. It is much easier to get into the hobby now than it was a decade ago.
I had the green body version without the diff brain. They put them on a crazy sale during the lawsuit. I guess they saw the writing on the wall and sold them while they could. It was a fun car and very innovative! I think the lawsuit has really stifled innovation in RC. Traxxas thinks they are protecting their interests, but all they are doing is making people hate them.
Well they're probably doing both.
I HATE Traxxas Business practices within this hobby especially, it stifles innovation, and is motivated out of fear of competition.... Yet it is within their right to do so I get that. If I saw company taking ideas that I had come up with and patiented not sure how I'd react..... I don't like it but it's easy for me to say, I'm not Traxxas.
So as a consumer I hate that there suing other companies I instead of allowing that competition to FORCE THEM to be be better and innovate!
Regardless I still love my XMaxx, my Maxx, and there are some other cool things there doing. Yes now Days it takes them YEARS to hear the complaints of the consumer and react quicker like Corally and Arrma do,
SO it's kinda like being fan of a sports team and some of their PLAYERS, even when some of those players do some reprehensible thing. Those things they don't don't FORCE me to avoid them directly and I do appreciate some of the good they do.... But I will definitely talk some smack when it comes to Traxxa$$😂
That's pretty much how I feel about it. I really wish they weren't so litigious but it's not going to stop me from buying their trucks :-)
@RcSpeedFreak-kk8wj For sure. It started out really strong and I can't imagine what it would be today.
Most those patents are NOT there inventions , they were like all of us sharing and taking ideas , while buying” the patents behind the scenes . Benedict Arnold comes to mind idk why 😂
Like arrma suing duperbash for T2T brace if he had his own company. They wouldn’t do that because Jason is a decent guy .
One of the reasons I quit buy their overpriced everything!
That is a cool truck. I like how you pointed out the key points. You were spot on with all the cool stuff and patent info.
Thanks Glad you enjoyed :-)
What's funny is that I'm just getting into the hobby. Haven't even bought my first car yet, doing my research. One thing that is consistent in my research is that regardless of the quality of their cars, Traxxas will not be seeing any of my money. Too many stories like this.
Seems like a reasonable standpoint.
I have this exact model. I got it back in 2016 I think. It's been pretty good to me. The biggest problem I had with it was always the steering. It takes so much force to get the wheels to turn. I also can't get my locking diffs to work anymore. Not sure what that's about. Cool to know the history of it!
There might be something wrong with your steering system as mine moves pretty freely.
Excellent video and great details 👍🏽
Thanks for watching Glad you enjoyed!
I have a few of everything but my arrma are hands down the best value bang for the buck ,i have a 12 year old orig metal ladder framed granite 2 wd that has never broken a single part running a sidewinder 3 setup ,it has gone asshole over applecart flip flopped wango tangoed its just a beast and my senton 4x4 has only broken the gear once using a identical sidewinder 3 and also some dynamite fusion motors and that truck stays clamped to the ground when i put it thru paces, funny thing is i got that granite for about 20 bucks on ebay as a roller chassis and glad i did bid on it not knowing who arrma was yet it wasnt even named in listing only just as a metal roller chassis sometimes a gamble pays off. Great video done nicely😊
They definitely make a good product!
I no longer buy Traxxas stuff especially after that whole drama of them sending out cease and desists and lawsuits to small companies that were making super cool upgrades for the TRX4M. Like others have said, they are not interested in innovation and expansion of the hobby, they are interested in controlling it and removing competition. Arrma will always be my go to brand.
Well as far as I know the cease and desist thing was an overreach by a third party that tracks is hired and wasn't traxxas's intent but that's just what they said so...
We were drawn to Arrma early on in our interest in the hobby and its clear to see why. Unfortunately we came too late to be able to have acuired one of these. A TRX-4 and the Bigfoot are the only Traxxas products we have with no intention of buying anything else from them.
They're still available on the second hand market. If you ever find one reasonably priced I would definitely recommend it!
Im not a Arrma fan but i would like to have a Nero!! just for the fact of not many of them out there!!!
Keep an eye on your local Facebook marketplace listings. They come up from time to time around me so they are available. If you get one get one with the diff brain though. It's what makes this thing really unique!
@@DoRC I will definitely keep my eye open, and they do look like a cool R/C also...your review and tear down was awesome on it!!!!
Great video! Can’t wait to see the next history lesson in old school RCs!
It would be sweet if Traxxass lost the lawsuit and the Nero was allowed to evolve into something amazing for today’s fan of it! I’d love to have one just to look at it on the shelf!
The way TraxxAss does business is probably the worst I’ve seen in just about ever! Expensive poor quality products and parts on high priced trucks is a slap in the face for the consumer!
They're actually not that bad when compared to a lot of other businesses in different industries but it is hard to feel good about them in this specific industry.
@@DoRC I understand. It’s just that they claim to be the best and most innovative company but as you know they put cheap plastic servos in their 6s Maxx Slash and charge $700 for 8mm wheel nuts and false speeds right on the box! But in tiny letters write “With optional gearing” that they don’t sell and doesn’t quite fit right.
@RC-4-LIFE oh yeah I completely agree. They definitely have some scummy things that they do.
@@RC-4-LIFE But they sell the optional gearing....
Great video! Companies ha have the right to patent their products and defend their products but they can also do it in a manner which helps the hobby, not control or hurt it! That’s why I will never own a TraxxAss vehicle! Well that and the fact they charge a lot more for less quality trucks! Probably need the extra money to pay their lawyers! They don’t own the word Max yet try and sue anyone using it! Can’t imagine how many lawsuits they have out on dog owners as “Max” is a common dog name!😂
Very informative video my friend! I knew about the shock mount lawsuit but not the steering one!
I still buy Traxxas vehicles but I can definitely understand why someone wouldn't want to.
You may be one of the most upset people that I have seen over a toy company.
Traxxas is dookie
@@MagnifiedGiant Read the comments! He’s not the only one! It’s companies like TraxxAss that keep the hobby at a standstill and anyone who can’t see that is ignorant or just has blinders on!
@@RC-4-LIFE Lol. Hey captain obvious, of course other people have issues with Traxxas. The Guy that I am talking about posts in every Traxxas thread known to mankind about how much he hates Traxxas. It is a little weird and I don't know why someone would act like that. Possibly a paid shill or just a person with a weird fetish. So that went over your head because your post indicates you didn't know that. Traxxas is not keeping the hobby at a stand still. Tons of other RC's and new innovations are happening all the time. You are a bit hyperbolic on your claim.
It is a very cool truck. I owned one for 6 years but found myself not using it much in the last 2 years of ownership. I didn't drive it b/c I didn't like the way it drove and overall and it was only moderately durable. Whenever I wanted to drive one of my 1/8th scales, I would always drive my E-Revo 2.0 (don't fight me on the 'actual scale' of the E-Revo). So in light of this, I ended up selling mine rather than have it be a shelf queen.
That makes sense. When it was first designed the requirements for durability weren't quite what they are now. I would say for what's probably an 11-year-old design now it's about middle of the road durability-wise.
Well I see why many Arrma guys hate Traxxas this definitely looks like one of those "never forget" moments. Traxxas shouldn't get to patent simple existing technology just cause they put it on a toy car.
I feel the same way. I think once something has been out that long and is ubiquitous technology it shouldn't be patentable even if you're using it in a different application. But I'm not the one that reviewed the patent
Yeah they shoudl just wait until soemone else copyright it riight?????
@@maszkalman3676so by that logic it makes it ok for Traxxas to sue the shit out of everyone over stuff they didn't come up with?
@@maszkalman3676 shit like this shouldnt be patented in the first place
Great video. I have traxxas RC's and think they do put out a good product but don't really seem like they want the hobby to advance very much. They seem to want to control what is available. And like you said where would the Nero and arrma be now if the lawsuit never happened. Anyway great video and keep up the good work.
Yeah I would love to see an alternate universe where the Nero wasn't killed. I bet it would be awesome now
Their business practices really do prevent me from supporting their products!!! I bought a couple of their vehicles right when I started in RC but since I learned of their ways never again…..
I can definitely understand that standpoint.
Brilliant to see. This is one RC car I drool over, just looks sick. As you say such a shame there no evolutions…
Yeah even in its first form it was awesome. I can't imagine what it would be now.
Ugly toad sued even uglier viper. I really don't care if Traxxas or Arrma will go under (and I do miss my Duratrax), but it's hilarious that RC manufacturers are patenting obvious and copypasted over10-20 years des0igns like lay-down shocks. Also for 10:42 please check out x-ray nt1 1/10 TC rear hub.
Well to be fair the patent was for that style on a model car which could be argued to be valid but I don't think it's good for the hobby.
Mine have the oil mod. Plugged the holes. Dam the thing is a beast. I cant bash it too hard because its very nose heavy and the bodies are not made anymore... the rest of the parts are luckily. The diffs are 1.5mod vs mod 1 on the current 6s vehicles. I had issues with the spur bushing wering down. Replaced it by a flanged bearing so far so good. You can drill the skid plates to get 40-50% more suspension travel. i 3d printed skinned spring perches also, a weak point of the nero was the rod end twisting because of the angle they are being pullet at. Also put kraton front spring I believe. So issues with the car was not enough ground clearence when the car has more to offer, spur bushing, shock tune, grease limited diffs unless you plug them with screws and the bodies
Sounds like a pretty sweet setup!
RC lore video 👍
It was fun to make :-)
Great Great Great video! I have the big rock, and the nero... Favorite R/c of all time.
They definitely are awesome!
Tamiya would bury Traxxas if they ever went after them. It's funny they are doing this since their first rc The Cat was a rebranded Nikko rc. With that being said.. I will never directly support Traxxas because of their litigation practices. I am only willing to buy a used Traxxas.
Maybe so. I mean they are both giants in the industry. It would be interesting to see what would happen.
@@DoRC Tamiya is more diversified and been around longer than Traxxas. They are rooted in the hobby industry and have the money to fight litigation from Traxxas.
Kyosho too
I wonder if similar reasoning is why they never went after Pro-Line too. Picking their battles.
@@MajorOutage Gonna say yes
I’ve kinda been on both sides of the coin with this. I was a massive fan of arrma back in the day. 2012 when the first generation 2wds were all the rage. It was my second hobby grade RC, and my first was a ruckus monster truck. The diff failed in the ruckus and I had a lot of issues with it in general. So the raider was a massive upgrade for me. I made it brushless and arrma still honored the warranty period. Even replaced a set of tires. Ended up being my only RC until the blx85 granite came out, which I believe was around the same time as this. Those cars were terrible. The gearbox switched to larger 32 but composite gears, which were absolutely not up to the brushless power train. On top of that the escs had a pretty high defect rate, and the metals they used for the dog bones and out drives had been reduced in quality so they bent far easier and the cups wore much faster. A substantial drop in quality, and it’s honestly disrespectful that arrma was willing to ship such a poorly designed product. What made it even worse is that while the gearbox had provisions for allowing the upgrade to the old style metal gears, there was too much slack in the gearbox which caused those to strip, so you basically had to upgrade to last years gearbox entirely to made those trucks even remotely usable. At that time the aftermarket was basically non existent too, so you had to rely on arrma for everything. I’ll give them credit for at least sending me out two sets of gears when mine failed, but all they had to do was make a metal 32p set to truly fix the issue. They already made a metal input gear exclusive to the blx model but not the brushed ones.
What made this all even worse for me was the community. When I was airing my complains about these design flaws, the community just bullied me for being too poor to buy a 6s, and I was a teenager at the time. For me, the brand and community that brought me into RC had turned their back on me completely, so I traded that blx85 granite for a rustler, and I was blown away with how much more reliable it was. Sure, it did have some weak points, but I was able to go several months between failures instead of at most 10 packs with the arrma. And everytime I broke something on the rustler, there were like 5 different brands selling an upgrade for that part. They also truly fixed the issue most of the time. Aluminum caster blocks never failed, rrp idler never failed etc. So I became a pretty big traxxas fan for a while.
I try to be more neutral now, but even still I can’t help but feel like arrma just got karma on this one. They screwed over an intermediate crowd with the blx85 trucks, and they did violate patents so they kinda had it coming. And I have tried multiple times over to give arrma another chance. Big rock 3s, had mine for two years, loved it, but I still had to pour money into that thing to keep it running. New slipper every six months at most, 80+ on steel ring and pinion gears because plastic is still not good enough for brushless power, steel spur for the slipper heat issues. It was just too much. When I finally broke a driveshaft I bought their “upgrade” ones and those broke basically immediately. Shoutout to amain hobbies on that one though, left a one star review on the product and they gave me a $50 store credit. Despite liking the car, I just felt like I was going to be working on it forever. The new 4s trucks seem like the most promising of all their trucks, I would go as far as to say they’re probably a better deal than the maxx, but that’s more because the maxx is overpriced as hell. I even tried the granite grom when it came out because it advertised all metal gears yet again, and I thought surely the internals would be metal because every brand has had metal diff internals that I’ve seen. Even Amazon cars do. But no, plastic, which did fail. So now the granite grom is just another ARRMA paperweight while they work on sending me diffs. I even tried a typhon because a friend convinced me to buy one. I didn’t have any gear issues this time, but the motor was getting scorching hot on stock gearing and moderate temps outside (75f), the battery and motor cooling options where severely limited because of the body, and those stupid motor mount screws stripped. And I did end up bending a tower. Pretty sure I would kill a kraton 6s in a month if I just ran it out of the box without doing any maintenance or precautions. Not to say traxxas is perfect. I’ve killed far too many 1200xl motors than is reasonable, and a couple vxl 6s escs, but overall I’ve had a far lower defect rate with anything from traxxas than arrma. Traxxas imo nails their cars but their electronics can fall a bit short with some models.
Yeah I think as far as durability it just depends on the personal experience. Some people swear by Traxxas and some people swear by Arrma. Personally I've owned just about every car that's been made in the last 20 years and I think both companies have made really good cars and both companies have had some stinkers.
Wow.
That was a refreshing, inciteful, and well thought out, logic based reply. Great job.
I wish I didn't have to comment on post like that though... the world we live in currently, i miss the earlier days of the internet and posts like this. Instead of the Twitter length short fuse Tik-Tok drive my brand is better than your brand diatribes.
I feel you on the community comment... I've seen pretty much the entire spectrum of good to bad in the year since I got into this.
Dead serious, never really thought about the make up of my collection to this point. I buy based on many factors. Price. Parts supply. etc... I bought a 2WD Slash as my first purchase. Largely based on those two factors. No regrets. I can walk into most any hobbby shop that sells RCs cars, and pickup what I need for my RCs, off the shelf.
This was a driving factor... but I'm not dead locked on anything. I mean on one hand... the parts selection, availability and even 3rd party part selections are outstanding. But, is it a good thing that you have all these options, or a bad things that you NEED many of these options? I can tip either way...
I guess I have thought of at least one aspect of my collections makeup... myself and some of my closest friends started with the 2WD Slash. I have 2 friends that are kinda "locked into the Traxxas ecosystem" as they called it. In their eyes, it makes the most sense, because collectively as a group... wherever we are at running our RCs... if a 2WD Slash breaks, chances are, one of us will have the spare replacement part needed in our toolbox... and we swap it and keep going. If it's a 4WD Slash, your odds drop to about 20% assuming it's a dedicated 4 drive part... if it's another brand or company... the odds are, you are done running till you get replacements from the hobby shop or get an online order placed.
For two of main friends, their story ends there. Traxxas, beginning, middle, end... for now. ;)
I own 8 RCs. 5 Traxxas, 2 LOSI, 1 Gmade. A further breakdown, of the 8, 5 are more of a anything, anywhere, any time type RC. Of those 5, 3 are 2WD, 2 are 4WD, ther other 3 are most specific. 2WD No prep drag racer, 4WD crawler, and a 4WD Nitro. 7 Electric, 1 nitro. So why is my collection so more divvergent then the 2 all in Traxxas guys? I want to try different brands, different categories etc.... I'm not sure what type, I like best yet, let alone what brand. I DO really want to acquire an Aarma, and a Team Associated. To get hands on with the different brands, build qualites etc... Traxxas, Aarma, LOSI, Associated are the big 4 brands available in the 3 closest drive RC shops.
I want to experience others as well, and I am sure I will with time. At some point I have to experience building a kit. Out of my 8 RCs, all 8 are RTR based... More specifically the legend of Tamiya, I want to experience a Tamiya kit build.
But I also won't go buy an Aarma, Associated, or Tamiya (or oither kit) to check off my imaginary check list. It's up to the company to sell me a product. Not for me to just buy an Aarma or whatever to check off list saying I own an Aarma. On top of that, it needs to pffer me something different than the 8 current RCs in my collection. I don't need a 4WD Slash and a 4WD Senton both in my collection. I need to the one that best covers my needs.
I am trying to at least sample the current RC buffet... before I settle into any sort of routine of always eating my favorite foods, and ignore everything else. If that makes sense.
Redcat is another fairly abundant brand in my vicinity. If i'm being honest, their catalog is probably offering me a more unique experience than many other companies. They have a relatively inexpensive crawler... that's high up, my list to potentially add. It has portal axles, 4 wheel steering and dig functionality, all features nothing in my current collection offers. And it's under $200 it's definitely got my attention. I don't really NEED two crawlers... but an argument could definitely be made that my current Gmade is more scale trail truck than pure crawler... so that door is open...
@@TimMcVey if you want a big basher, get the redcat machete. That thing is BEEFY. It’s a very low and stable RC, it might be a nice departure from the traxxas models you have now. I personally had a redcat shredder a couple years ago and despite buying a Xmaxx shortly afterwards, I ran both until the center diff gave out a little more than a year after purchase. The machete is a complete reengineering of the platform, and isn’t plagued by the same issues. The diffs are basically Xmaxx sized, in a nearly Xmaxx sized vehicle but weighs several pounds less. The 1/6 scale can be a little deceiving though. It’s 1/6 scale if you call the Xmaxx and xrt 1/5th scale. However traxxas doesn’t consider them to be 1/5, they consider them 1/6 and 1/5th is the realm of the losi gassers and whatever that $4000 bastard is. ARRMA on the other hand considered x truck scale to be 1/5th. It is slightly shorter and wider than the old shredder, and slightly smaller tires. Other than the tires, I think those are all good changes.
As far as crawlers, I’d recommend you get something that can accept a hitch if you have any interest in boats as well. I am dying to get my hands on the traxxas boat trailer for my tfl genesis
Actually this only makes me understand why traxxas did what they did. Never realized the Nero took so much from the summit/revo. Unfortunately a patent is what it is and if there is one on something and you use it and get caught then that’s an issue. You have to protect your own name. I use both brands and others too. All I’m saying is I get it.
I could definitely understand Traxxas protecting their patents. The part that I don't agree with is getting the patent for the suspension in the first place. I was based on a design That had been around for a long time. Traxxas didn't really come up with anything new they just adapted something that already existed and made it smaller.
@@DoRC Well iworte in another comment but here we are again traxxas made a miniature working version of it that wasn't cheap to engineer....
@@maszkalman3676 That's fine but they didn't create a new idea. Patents are designed to protect ideas not different sizes of things. Nothing about the suspension in the Revo was new. It's a shock a pushrod and a bell crank. Those three parts in that configuration had already existed for a very long time. All they did was make them smaller.
@@DoRC And you thing minimizing things are easy or cheap??? Look up how much mnoey was to downsize computer parts just to the quarter of their room sized original...
Ok. Thanks for your feedback :-)
What an awesome RC car, I managed to get hold the big rock nero version but my tactics controller was dead on arrival, managed to rebind back up to noble 4 plus with local hobbyshops help. Such a fun truck to drive, ended putting the 1/7th BigRock tires on as the original tires had warped.
Nice! What did you use for selecting the different gears?
@@DoRC the hobby shop set up. Lot of complicated mixing on 3 channels. One for central diff and a button few combos for front and rear. Abit above my head if I'm honest.
@steveosrc3082 interesting. Yeah I'm sure it's just four different positional set points that the diff brain translates into the outputs though you could probably just eliminate the diff brain if you had enough channel outputs and control each servo individually. Maybe something worth messing with for me.
@@DoRC if I had to hazard a guess id say your pretty close. But the receiver I got in there only a 3 or 4 channel when you'd really want 6 channels. The mixing has been done on 3 channels. I was told it took a while to get right but I believe it's simulating what the tactics radio does.
I believe this is how the original tactic radio operates as well only on 3 channels.
The nero lawsuit from traxxas is the exact reason why I no longer trust Traxxas. Traxxas' volatility to other product that violates their patents... they shouldn't have done that.
Yeah it's tough to know what the radiant answer is. I feel like if it was a different industry where everybody was litigious it would be different but Traxxas seems to be a standout when it comes to just how much they sue people.
I think the main thing was the suspension design. They may not have invented it, but if Do RC was correct and the design was very similar to Traxxas’ then I think they can get a pass for at least that part of the lawsuit.
I think the reason they haven’t sued Tamiya for using the design nowadays is down to three reasons. First, Traxxas no longer sells any large-scale vehicles with the cantilever design. The E-Revo and Summit were discontinued months ago. The minis still use it, but I get the feeling that Traxxas doesn’t care much about them. Second, they may have learned their lesson from all the backlash they got with this lawsuit and decided not to pursue further lawsuits. And third, I think the reason they filed this lawsuit was to put Hobbico out of business, because it eliminated a pretty large competitor
@falcondragonslayer The design is essentially identical to the Traxxas one so they did definitely violate that patent but I don't think Traxxas should have ever gotten that patent to begin with because the design was not something Traxxas came up with. That same basic design had been used on full size cars for decades beforehand. Personally I don't think taking something that already exists making it smaller and calling it your own is reason for getting a patent. Of course again I'm not a patent lawyer :-)
@@DoRC It doesn't matter if it was on a real life car before they are different things..... it's like saying the toyan V8 and inline 4 nitro engines are not new because they are in cars since the 1900's yeah they are... but they can't f@cking fit in your palm they neede to make small and still functional.... so i hope you see the problem now....
@@maszkalman3676 shrinking down an extremely complex machine like a four-stroke engine is very different from shrinking down a pushrod suspension system. A pushrod suspension system is literally the rod the bell crank and a shock absorber. That's all there is to it. There is zero innovation or technological development needed to shrink that down as is evidenced by the fact that the Revo literally uses a rod a bell crank and a shock absorber.
Do you really think that something should be patentable simply because they took a completely developed system consisting of three fairly simple parts and made them a different size without changing the design or innovating anything at all about it?
Centre steering was on a ton of Tamiya RC & classic 1/8 gas on road cars.
In board suspension again Tamiya, the Revo is a scale up of Tamiya F1 (which also had centred steering). They used that suspension because real F1 cars use that layout.
The RX is the same as many outdoor electrical boxes.
The law used to be that wherever the patent was filed was where the case was fought, so awarding a dubious patent was a guarantee of future income.
☝🏾
Yeah that's pretty much my take on it as well.
There's also the thing that when Traxxas sued, court was held on their turf in Texas. And since 2-3 years thats not longer possible. i have not heard of any claim against a major competitor since then. I wouldn't find it far fetched to think that traxxas bribed their local judge and technical experts because they won way to easy. Some of these patents are just ridicoulus.
Traxxas also sued Horizon Hobby over the cantilever shock layout of the Vaterra Twin Hammers.
Oh yeah I had that in my notes but forgot to mention in the video. Good catch
That’s interesting ! What a shame things work like that .
Seriously?
You think Traxxas would have had to bribed somebody in Texas? Some the shadiest stuff in politics, or law... seem to come from TX or FL. Bribes in TX? Oil *cough* George Bush *cough* bribes... Every state crafts laws to protect that states best interests and financial assets.
Been waiting for this one, excellent video as always!
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
The more I learn about them, the less I like.
That's understandable.
I loved the video, it was great to see so many details of the RC, but it gave me a little anxiety and PTSD about having to put it back together again.
As long as you take your time take pictures and keep things organized it's really not that bad.
If people in the hobby want there hobby to thrive everyone should boycott businesses like traxxes if they where put out of business pattents can be used more freely as they won't have the funds to sue anymore
I think actually boycotting businesses that do things like this would be a great idea but unfortunately most people don't do it.
Interesting well done!. Traxxas going hard on the competition, dang!
Yeah they do like to sue.
Excellent video! So interesting and very well done. Keep em coming.
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
Traxxas sues comapnies in the rc hobby to put them out of bussiness.
It does kind of seem that way.
Are they went out of business tho????
@@maszkalman3676 arrma almost did
Isn't it incredible that any company can just sue another company any time they want, based on the fact they just want to put them out of business?
You'd think there would be a set of rules, or maybe laws in place... to protect a company from copying another companies products and stealing their IP.
@@Batchat2352 Almsot it's a tall tale arrma used and still use spektrum parts which is under Horizon hobby just like Arrma thewy woudln't loose anything but the name Horizon hoby is a multicontinental giant which swallowed al lthese companies --> AKA
ARRMA
Athearn
Axial
Blade
Dromida
Duratrax
Dynamite
E-flite
ECX
Evolution
FMS
Hangar 9
Hobby Essentials
HobbyZone
Losi
McHenry Couplers
Onyx
O.S. Engines
Pro Boat
Pro-Line Racing
PROTOform
RealFlight
Roundhouse
Saito
Spektrum
Team Losi Racing
Top Flite
Trinity Racing
Vaterra
Zenoah some of may ring a bell for you if you palyed with rc-s in the past... they are just a shadow a facade because of horizon hobby not traxxas....
thank you for being the second RC youtuber i have ever seen that is not sucking traxxas's eggs to get free stuff. learning how their patent trolling hurt all of the major brands explains why i was surprised at the lack of models from the big names, as i have been out of the hobby since 2008, and am looking for a new car. The selection, especially considering racing offerings, has basically dried up from the major brands besides associated. It is great that the models have all come down in price from every company across the board due to the competition from china, but a "real" RC company should care about the community, instead of moving units like traxxas. Traxxas is not allowed at my local track except specific races,and i now understand why after learning about the sterp decline the industry has taken. I hope that the high quality models will still be made from the big names, but it really has taken a dive, while traxxas pulling an apple and forcing users to use their chargers to charge the traxxas batteries is proof that they dont care about the end user, only selling more products.
I think it depends on which part of the industry you're looking at. Currently the bashing industry is doing really well and there are tons of new vehicles available every year. I don't really know much about the racing side of things so I can't speak to that though.
@@DoRC very true, thanks for pointing that out, great channel! i guess i didnt research new models enough!
@@bobbjorkner7140 Glad you enjoy :)
It is to bad that traxxas patented all of this, the rc industry is suppost to be a fun thing because it’s Al toy cars for having fun with but traxxas is kind of trying to take the fun out of it
It is and I understand that Traxxas is a business but when they patent things that they didn't come up with that's when it starts to feel bad to me.
Great video. Love the deep dive & all the info.
Glad you enjoyed I really had fun making it!
I don't own any Traxxas, and I never will. Arrma,Losi,HPI forever.
I can definitely understand that standpoint. Thanks for watching :-)
Wow this video was awesome history behind traxxas. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks Glad you enjoy it!
I will never support traxxas sorry to say
It's completely understandable. To be honest with you I'm less inclined to support them after doing the research for this video then I was before.
@DoRC I've heard about the lawsuits before but never really dived into them , but this video made me realise it was much worse than I thought
Well you can't blame a company for protecting their investments, they spent the money on engineering and patent fees then for another company to just copy their car and produce it is not right!!! Everyone acts like Traxxas is the only one who sues over patent infringement!!! Companies do it all the time they have to....can't just let someone steal your work!!
I’ve never liked Traxxas anyway
@andyb9994 to some degree I agree with this however a lot of the things that Traxxas has patented including stuff in this lawsuit weren't things that they invented. Sure they adapted things to their own use but cantilever shocks and a box with a gasket have been around a long time :-)
Great video! Love a little history
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
Overcomplicated car.
And Traxxas won't do a durable ultimate car, just because "why you need to buy it only once...?"
Reminds me about a story of indestructible german drinking glass...
It's a little more complicated than other vehicles but it's really not that much more complex. Personally I really like the option to change the driving dynamics on the fly. Maybe it's just because I've bashed a lot of cars for a long time but being able to change the feel of the car by just flicking a switch is cool.
Exellent video as always👌....that locking diff would be kinda cool,use it on all kinda of different occasions...👍
It really is. I was surprised at how different the feel of the car was with the various options
I personally burned my 4 Traxxas cars at the time and will never buy another product from Traxxas period and I might mention I currently own probably in the neighborhood of 10,000 of RC equipment and not one red cent has gone to traxxas
That's dedication!
I’ve only been back in the hobby a few years so a bit of middle history is cool.
Glad you enjoyed!
Yeah, I'd never buy a traxxas product.
Understandable
I buy a lot of Traxxas cars, but I think I might buy more used than I do new. There are some crazy deals on traxxas cars used out there. $650 mint condition Xmaxx and $250 slash ultimate just in need of some tire glue are some of the best deals I’ve gotten. The $350 hoss with a max8 combo and GTR shocks also wasn’t bad either. So far I think the only brand new traxxas cars I’ve bought where the erevo back when it was $580, the xrt when it was brand new (I regret that but it was a birthday gift to myself) and the TRX4m at launch. The erevo is by far my best purchase. Still on the original stub axles somehow.
Used RC cars in general really don't hold their value. As long as you're careful you can definitely get some good deals out there!
But yet Traxxas can copy something else called the mud boss !!!
:)
Some of my best memories in my rc life are with Traxxas vehicles ❤
They do make some good cars!
Traxxas really showed their true colours.!!
Shameful.!!
Yeah I mean it's not that uncommon in industry for it to happen but it definitely isn't good for the hobby.
I do agree that is a shame that that truck had to be taken off the market because they didn’t follow the patent law. That truck would be completely awesome today like you said fifth generation EXB 🤯
Yeah who knows how awesome it is in some alternate universe.
We all know this
Thanks for your feedback!
Traxxas is just an American business through and through. I still respect their products quality.
Pretty much great I will say that they seem to do business a little more "American" than most in this particular industry
Great video man. I haven’t seen it run yet, but it looks and sounds like an awesome truck like a kick ass summit. I don’t let all that lawsuit shit bother me. I could care less whoever puts out the best product. I’m gonna buy it.
I would say the lawsuit stuff does bother me but it doesn't stop me from buying their cars :-)
Love old RC’s. Great vid!
Glad you enjoyed thanks for watching :-)
I've got an 8s Fazon with an extended motor and chassis to contain it. So fun!
Nice!
I love that nero its a nice truck man great video keep up the great work bro
Yeah it's pretty fun!
Great video. It really makes me hate Traxxas. They’re out for their own only, not for the growth of the hobby. They’re the Gibson of the RC world. They should change their name to Tyrrant, “First Name in RC Litigation” (because our cars can’t compete with Arrma stock vehicles.)
By Gibson are you referring to guitars?
@@DoRC yup. They have been suing me other manufacturers historically. Especially, if they get close to the headstock designs on a Les Paul.
Great video and info. I always wanted to find one of those in good shape just to have for the history of it. I always use shoe goo and drywall tape. The stuff you used seemed to do a lot cleaner job. I didn't catch what adhesive you said you used. What is it?
I used cement board tape which is very similar to drywall tape but has better adhesive and e6000 which is almost identical to shoe goo. The clean job is just because I've done a ton of these in the past and I've got a lot of practice at it. Also getting some ID card blanks or old gift cards to spread the adhesive really helps!
@DoRC I need to give the e6000 a try. Maybe the shoe goo I have is old or something because it always get globs in it that won't smooth out. Thanks for replying so quick!
The motor on the neros are crazy strong. Never seen a motor with such strong magnets. It takes quite a bit of force to make it spin.
It does have quite a bit of magnetic friction but keep in mind that doesn't inherently translate to motor power.
@@DoRC car is heavier than modern arrma 6s and they heat up less.
@@Batchat2352 Yeah I'm not saying that the motor isn't good I'm just saying that the amount of magnetic resistance you feel is not an indication of how good the motor is.
Very interesting, thanks for all informations and research
You're welcome thanks for watching!
complicated capitalism. I could speak for a lifetime on that.
Great vid by the way and the history that was good context with showing the rig.
Yeah capitalism has its benefits but it certainly has its drawbacks too.
How is that centralized steering arm any different from the 1982 Kyosho Scorpion servo saver? Please tell me I’m missing something vital.
Nope you're not missing anything. Traxxas patents things they did not come up with and then sues other companies for using those same designs
Man I loved mine and still miss it.
You should get another one! They are still reasonably available on the used market and parts are still purchasable from horizon.
I love Traxxas products, but I really hate their history of excessive lawsuits. I got into the hobby back in 2019....years after the Arrma Fazon came out. I saw a video of the Fazon on RUclips and went to my local hobbytown to try and see if it can be ordered....sad day for me when the guys told me Traxxas made sure no one can buy that car brand new at any hobby store.
I would definitely recommend trying to get a used one. They are pretty fun!
I have a Fazon... It's my absolute favorite and I have most of the major and most popular brands and rigs
Especially for a first generation car from nearly a decade ago it's a pretty sweet rig.
I loved traxxas revo .amazing truck
Hard to work on and not the strongest in the world but definitely an awesome platform
Traxxas never helped me with my warranty while I was still covered. Arrma has helped me every single time and even when I wasn’t under warranty anymore. They sent me a brand new Spektrum s2200 charger for free when I sent them in mine for repair. So all I had to pay was for shipping and duties back to Canada. Arrma is for the people, Traxxas is for themselves.
What specific warranty issue were you trying to get resolved
@@DoRC I was hoping they would replace my esc for me through the warranty
@@element550 ah Yeah unfortunately Traxxas only has like a 30 day warranty on their electronics. They say it's a lifetime warranty but it's a lifetime 50% off replacement warranty.
@@DoRC oh okay I see. I thought it was lifetime when I bought my slash but when I called Traxxas to see about getting a replacement they told me I would pay half but then because I’m in Canada he said there would most likely be duty fees and shipping and by the time the fees added up it wouldn’t be worth me getting one from them. This was almost a couple years ago. But Arrma their warranty seems good for the 2 years, and they’ve replaced a few servos for me so far, and I was surprised they replaced that charger for me without some sort of payment for it because it’s a pretty expensive charger.
@element550 Yeah The horizon warranty definitely is more comprehensive. In general Traxxas customer support is pretty good though.
I picked one up last year. I love the innovative design. My favorite diff setting is the drift mode it makes it fun to drive. Also locking the Centre diff makes it fun to drive. Unfortunately I don’t drive it much as I’m worried about breaking something. I plan to remove the diff brain to preserve the parts and make
My own aluminum diff cases so I can add silicone oil for tunability.
At least right now spare parts are pretty readily available directly from horizon. You don't actually need to make your own differential cases you can just use a little bit of epoxy and seal up the holes that the pins go through on the stock cases.
Now that was an awesome video
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
I asked my rep at Team Corally why the receiver box was not waterproof he said Traxxas had a patent, like you mentioned it is a bit different because of the wire holder. Evey car has a valve cover that has a gasket to keep oil in the way I see it a rubber seal on a lid screws to a box is not unique its done in many industries. As far as patents they are only good for so many years thats how we get generic drugs and why the havent sued for the shocks. I know the owner of one of the companies that got a cease and desist so the letter is for real. Interesting look at this rc I had no Idea it even existed but I just got back in 2 years ago the last rc I had was the Clod Buster back in 87 when it came out I am lucky I have the illegal one with the Chevy Bowtie grill and Chevrolet Tailgate because Tamiya got sued for that lol.
Yeah the cease and desist letters were real they just were not intentional according to Traxxas.
I have Traxxas rigs, and Arrma rigs.. Including a Nero and a Fazon. They all have their positives and negatives. The diff brain setup is fantastic in theory, but has proven to be problematic at least in my experience. Still love it tho! I've always found Traxxas to be more generic, and Arrma's to be better esthetically. Competition makes all better, but it also makes Traxxas scared. Easier to prevent competition than produce it I suppose.
Yeah that's pretty much what most litigation sets out to do I think.
Nice informative vid!! 😎👍
Thanks Glad you enjoyed!
Great video and it sounds like Traxxas don’t want to take on Tamiya as they are a much bigger more established company and Traxxas know this. Sadly when they see they can go for a smaller company and put them out of business they sue as they know they’ll likely win? Do we need such pettiness from a big company? I’m in the UK and doubt I’ll ever own a Traxxas as they’re too much money to buy and maintain, I can open a horizon hobby account but can’t buy anything as they don’t ship to the UK!! Interesting facts 👍
That's lame. Yeah it really seems that what country you live in dramatically affects which brands are best.
When I first got into rc I was OBSESSED with Traxxas a name brand, simply because their vehicles looked to be so much more advanced than any other company that I had bought from previously. But after trying 1 or 2 of their vehicles, and also trying out a Losi, Team Associated, Arrma, and Axial, I realized that Traxxas wasn't any more bang for the buck than the others in terms of features and durability to price ratio. Imo Traxxas is way overpriced for what they give you. And after the latest lawsuits, I've grown really disenchanted with them.
These days their prices are higher than just about everybody else.
Arrma needs to being the nero back. My nero is a v2 by how i modified it with some basic 3d printed parts and tune up. But if the nero still existed it would be next to the kraton in terms of performence and probably sales
Yeah I'd love to live in an alternate universe where it hadn't gotten killed. It would be cool to see where it is now.
Did you recently buy this off eBay? I was bidding on one there that was in equally great shape. Looks like a great rig. I was still a Traxxas fan boy back when this was built. Luckily I finally tried other brands and saw the light. I do hate Traxxas the business but I'm more just disappointed in the company. Burying and safe
No I got it a couple months ago off marketplace.
I think one of the reasons Traxxas did not/ has not sued Tamiya is because the Tamiya buggies that have the cantilever suspension are in no way comepeting with the e-Revo. Anyone who bought the Arrma Nero was a lost sale for Traxxas. Who cross shops Tamiya buggies and Traxxas RTRs? There basically two different markets/buyers. My two cents
Yeah that's entirely possible. It's also possible That Traxxas smelled blood in the water. Hobbyco was already in trouble before they sued them. Tamiya would make a much more formidable enemy
Traxxas suing hobbyists for making and selling scale crawler parts to fit the TRX4M was the last straw for me...
Apparently that was due to an overzealous third party and Traxxas was not intentionally doing that but that's just what they said so who knows.
For that reason (and how overpriced they are) I stopped buying Traxxas a few years ago.
A lot of people boast about how great parts availability is for TRX and all that, but that's only an issue when you're impatient and can't wait a week for parts to arrive.
There's so many other great brands out there I'd rather give my money to them.
Definitely an understandable position.
But Arrma ain't cheap either in most part so the world america isn't the whole world for example a traxxas rustler 4x4 vxl is cheaper her in middle/east europe than the arrma vorteks 3s
I have a brand new Nero & Fazon in the box. Not sure why I'm keeping them? Probably going to put them on ebay. They are cool, very heavy tho!
That's awesome I want one!