Why did AMERICAN AIRLINES FAIL in SEATTLE?
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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In 2020, American Airlines announced long-haul services from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport with three intercontinental routes. However, only one of these ever began, eventually being cut. Why was this? Let's explore why American Airlines was not very successful with its international experiment in SeaTac.
TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:40 AA's West Coast Long-Haul History
03:28 American's Seattle Story
09:00 Why AA Was Unsuccessful
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Read my article on this topic: aeroxplorer.com/articles/american-airlines-ends-international-flights-from-seattle-what-happened.php
Northwest had a maintenance base in Seattle before delta bought northwest. This became the basis for delta having a hub in Seattle.
Northwest had an extensive Asian network out of Seattle. That's why it was originally called Northwest Orient. I flew them to Tokyo and onto Manila several times. Too bad Delta didn't maintain that after they bought Northwest.
@@alank122NW also used to fly to Amsterdam from SeaTac which was part of their Wings partnership (later SkyTeam) with KLM. And Northwest used to have a partnership and feed from Alaska and Horizon. The Northwest (now Delta) operation at SeaTac dates from long long before 2014. More like 1947.
In April 2011 Delta flew me through Seattle, from Honolulu to Detroit. ( NHL - SEA - DTW ).
Didn't know about it being a Delta Hub, now I know why it was a stretch for the B757 from NHL to SEA.
Out to NHL from ATL was 10 hour flight in the middle seat of an A330 on Delta. So Delta still uses Atlanta as a major Hub.
@@alank122 so Seattle was a former northwest focus city.
"Sea-Tac" 😃
Kids, don’t forget that international routes were very different before the “Open Skies” treaties. The USDOT was trying to spread international service among the various airports when approving routes which is part of the reason why the SJC-Tokyo route was available to be approved for AA, especially since the AirCal and the later Reno Air operations which AA acquired at SJC had been scaled back already.
…yes I remember that. Oh Reno Air, they were so good to me as I commuted/pass ride with them from SEA or PDX to SJC.
Great video you should also do one of how United failed in Seattle. I worked at United for 15 years and 3 of those were in Seattle. Watched them go from about 80 flights a day to about 36. They suspended the Seattle Tokyo route, closed the crew base and gave up most of there gates to Delta
United also ran Sea-Tac to LHR which they bought from PanAm. United used to dominate the North Satellite as can be seen in “Sleepless in Seattle” but now that’s entirely used by Alaska (and sometimes American).
…it’s sad how UA just lost it’s position in the Pacific Northwest. I was fortunate to have been a SEASW for a few years in the late 90’s to Y2K. The NRT flights were always packed as so were it’s JFK. I did a lot of Shuttle trips and it was always full but the focus was on SFO back in those days. I eventually transferred back to SFO and retired there but the SEA ops and domicile folks and all them at United Express were the best of the bunch. Even the Starbucks were just excellent. It was a great moment too bad it didn’t push through.
A lot of American’s long-haul flights out of LAX were actually moved to their largest hub at DFW during the pandemic. LAX is a very competitive airport to operate at especially with long-haul routes. Plus, with 1 in every 4 American flights either starting, ending, or having layovers at DFW Airport it became more feasible to fly out of DFW
DFW-Asia routes are the only Asia routes that work for AA
@@Coolsomeone234Phoenix will be successful for long hauls as it’s only international service is to London heathrow
@@Coolsomeone234because there is no other competition at that airport to Asia with millions of passengers funneling through. American boasts as the biggest airline but their routes to Asia is paltry even if you add DFW. Can’t compete with long haul on the west coast.
LAX is my home Airport, I used to fly to Europe up to two times a year. I almost never flew on a US Carrier because they more often than not wanted me to have a Layover in a US airport!, and their service wasnt as good as European Carriers. I did Fly American to Latin America when thay had a layover in Dallas!, now they want me to Fly to Miami, not going to happen lol.
@@EsteOeste-vw7ps I fly to Korea every year from LAX and thankfully no US carriers operate out of LAX to Korea as Korean and Asiana dominate that market with Air Premia having a small sliver of a market share
You failed to mention that Boeing's is years behind on it's delivery schedule for B 787 aircraft to American. American removed Airbus 330 and B 767 aircraft during the pandemic, They anticipated that they would be replaced by B 787s but Boeing's failure to deliver aircraft has left American handcuffed internationally.
AA actually started SEA to Tokyo back in the 1990’s. We even had a small crew base at SEA. If I recall correctly, it lasted for a number of years.
Wow that's amazing to know!
Bought the route from Continental, as I recall, when Continental was having a fire sale to stay bankruptcy. Made no sense because there was no feed. It was an int'l route dangling at the end of AA's system. But, at the time, it seemed the only way AA was going to get into an Asian market. AA appeared to have very little pull in D.C. with Robert Crandall and his bull-in-the-China-shop approach to tactfulness. Then again, AA bought AirCal and dismantled the routes, Reno and dismantled the routes, TWA, and dismantled the routes, USAir... Sometimes circumstances are against you, but sometimes you are your own worst enemy.
They also tried to poach Delta’s SEA-HND slot after US carriers got access to Haneda. That didn’t work (would have likely done better due to connecting traffic from AS)
Many years ago, as a business customer I frequently flew domestic through to or through Seattle, usually on Northwest or Delta. Occasionally Alaska. I once flew from Anchorage to Hong Kong, changing at Seattle. Northwest and United both
I feel bad for people in Alaska trying to get to Asia they have to backtrack.
Ty for the vid! Have fun while you’re in college 💞💞
I am a retired AA Flight Attendant. I retired in October 2013 after 34 years. American does have more history in Seattle. There was a crew base there for some years, and operated only one international flight. SEA-NARITA-SEA. The exact years. I could not tell you. I am enjoying just over ten years in retirement. The airline industry, well, you can have it. I look forward to my retirement check on the first banking day of each month. As for you, finish college. In my training class in 1979, 48 of 49 of the new hires had four-year degrees. I was a recruiter and instructor for periods over the years. I would guess that 95% of new hires had college degrees. Many go on to get advanced degrees in medicine and law. Be well.
…I was SEASW with UAL back in the late 90’s and we was a busy bee during those days. But as a Stewardess Base in Seattle it was mad crazy senior. My 8 years couldn’t hold a line for the most junior line holder had 21 years! The UAL hold on its operations did a sharp decline in the 2000’s for it was focused on its SFO expansion and it fizzled more after acquiring Continental but by that time I was already buh bye and work free at home in the Bay Area.
Great content
I think this is also because flying AA long-haul is just not desirable. I will always fly another airline if there is another direct flight available. Their hard product and soft product just don't compare to United and Delta. And on top of that, they have a really weak year-around trans-oceanic route map. Like last ORD update when you said American's only year around long-haul destination from Chicago was to London. I thought that was unbelievable, so I looked it up and you are right! United has 8 year around trans-oceanic flights (soon to be 9 with Tel-Aviv, and 10 if you count Honolulu)! Really hard to grow your international market when all you fly to is to London lol
What can we do to fix this?
they have a ton of partners who do pacific stuff. why not just connect through LAX, DFW, SFO, SAN, SEA, etc. for Qantas, Japan Airlines, Cathay, etc.
@@dfwplanespotters_yt A), because I'm not just talking about transpacific, any long-haul international flight. B), Chicago is one of their major hubs it should have more than 1 year round international flights... I mean really..., LOT Polish Airlines has more yearly international routes as American does to ORD... and C), you have just as many other partner airlines you have as United as American for additional routes.
United make International work even though they have a stronger Star Alliance group vs Oneworld who is weaker of an airline group.
AA has just about given up on O’Hare. United truly is the dominant carrier there now, whereas it was truly 50/50 for a long time. They’ve been downsizing that hub every year and it’s more regional than mainline now. United now controls most of terminal 2 as well as 1. O’Hare was designated AA’s “787 Center of Excellence” at one point, it had more 787 flights than any of their other hubs. You could even fly the 787 to LAX, PHL, and DFW domestically. I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a AA 787 at O’Hare and I travel for work almost weekly. Sad what Parker did to AA and what’s going on there. I predict a bankruptcy in the next 5 years. Too much debt and bad overall network planning.
Please do how United has managed to be the top US airline serving Asia Pacific, more the doubling American and Delta operations. While American has largely given up on Asia.
United has a major hub in SFO which allows excellent direct East Coast connections to Asia Pacific. All the morning flights from East Coast would land around 10-11 AM for the Asia flights that depart around 12-2 PM. I always remember International Concourse G lined up with many United 777s and 747s in the morning.
Northwest (now acquired by Delta) did the same thing, but they set their Asia Pacific hub in Tokyo Narita which is not as direct as United's SFO. You would have to fly to Tokyo and maybe do double connections on Northwest. AA doesn't have much presence in Asia and is largely unknown.
One word, Continental.
@@worldofai-games1036it’s a beautiful sight to see in SFO, as United have back to back to back 777’s taking off to Asia.
Flying long haul on Emirates or Qatar vs. a US carrier. I know which one I would definitely choose.
The old livery is an Aviation Classic just like Eastern
Delta swooped in and pushed AAL and UAL out of Seattle, not to mention JAL, ANA and CAT. There used to be many more options to get to Asia in the 90s and 2000s.
Delta "swooped in to SEA" by buying Northwest. If I am not mistaken, AA wanted to do the same thing, but was rebuffed by the gov't on "competition" grounds. Had to have pull in D.C. and AA had little.
As I recall, I flew copilot on the inaugural return flight from NRT to SEA on the 777 in 1993 ish. I'd need to look back through my log books. It may have been 1997.
dont forget united used to run B747-400 alot for SEA/NRT runs for few years before switching it to B777-200ER
@fike924 Yes. I was just speaking of AA. I think it started long before the presenter said it did.
In San Jose, American launched the Paris and Taipei services at the same time.
miss seeing widebodys in sjc tbh we only get one 787 lol all the cargo planes went to oak
Delta and Alaska airlines own that airport
Bob Crandall attempted to acquire PA’s SEA-NRT route in 1988 (?) and was going to open a west coast hub. CO acquired the route so Crandall built his hub down in SJC. Instead of being able to go point to point on the old AirCal system Crandall sent everyone to the SJC to hub. At the time WN had little presence on the west coast with most being spokes out of PHX. The silly people of California just didn’t understand Crandall’s grand idea of going through SJC to change planes and drink lattes when you just wanted to go from BUR to SMF for the cheapest cost. WN moved into Californian like fire ants with there point to point service and the AA SJC operation was another legacy Crandall abandoned hub. Later in the mid 1990’s AA acquire CO’s SEA/NRT route but with no domestic feed it didn’t last long……at least that is the way I remember it.
AA seems to have consolidated flights in DFW, PHX, and PHL. It relies on its OneWorld partners to connect to many international destinations; without whom, would leave them unable to meet demand. I rely on BA, Cathay Pacific, Iberia, JAL, and Finnair to connect me to the world when I fly AA. Have to say that more often, those carriers offer superior service, meals, and amenities than AA. I live in Charlotte, which is AA’s second largest hub, offering more domestic non-stops than DL or UA.
That’s their strategy. Only South America, Central America, Caribbean and Mexico they really fly to with their own planes.
Thats the only good thing about AA, you can get a slight discount when flying British Air, Iberia, Finn Air to Europe and, you can see the Plane maps!because you are not flying on an AA Plane.
In the case of Seattle it's Alaska Airlines the newest Oneworld partner in North America. There is a caveat to AA advantage and AS Mileage Plan lack of Domestic lounge access on Oneworld emerald status. That doesn't apply to MH🇲🇾 CX🇭🇰 JL🇯🇵 QF🇦🇺 BA🇬🇧 Oneworld emerald status members since you can use it domestically
And CLT
Do UA and DL do the same thing to AC and AM?
It's hard to say whether or not AA would have been successful long term. I think part of there issues is that they were late to the game in trying to get long haul routes out of SeaTac. While I don't think it was bad, I think they were too late on trying to establish long haul routes in and out of Seattle because the airport had established partnerships with both domestics and foreign companies.
Do why AA failed in Austin next please!!!
How does that relate to this?
One word. Delta. Delta is the domestic airline that has long haul service from Seattle. Alaskan Airlines owns the domestic flights out of Seattle.
Alaska is going to start serving long haul too. They definitely have domestic on lock… they even fought off United.
Delta also has domestic flights out of Seattle as they have a small hub there now.
Seattle is a Delta and Alaska hub, American should focus their Westcoast presence at LA and Phoenix
Not sure about Phoenix, but LAX is saturated. All the majors (UA, DL, and AA) have large presences down there and AA will have serious competition to win passengers.
Phoenix can handle more domestic flights, but the international facilities are small. It's not uncommon to have Mexico flights to hold on the tarmac because the customs lobby is full. Especially if there is a wide body offloading when you arrive early.
Can you make a video addressing rumors of United opening up a new hub?
Potentially! Would be a cool topic.
That's the..it is JUST a rumor at this stage
never heard of this before, I would almost guarantee it is fake news
Love the video! Very informative
It's interesting how the world's largest airline couldn't find success overseas from Sea-Tac. Being said, as my home international airport, I have only flown them domestically as a they serve the SMF-PHX route, which we have needed to do occasionally after a stay in Sacramento and at a much better fare than UA.
With DAL having a hub at SEA, AAL should open one at PDX instead. Start with NRT, LHR, PVG etc.....
Maybe AA are relying on their Oneworld partnership for those route...
You are correct on that these days it's going to work thanks to Alaska Airlines in the alliance. Sadly the higher tier Elite members can only use it internationally the lounge on the other hand Japs JMB 🇯🇵 Hong kongers Asia Miles Diamond🇭🇰 Aussies🇦🇺 Malaysians Enrich🇲🇾 can use the lounge in Seattle-Tacoma airport for both International and domestic use
American has had terrible operational issues in Seattle. The local management is truly incompetent. I recently tried to connect from PHX to NRT on AA and JL. We arrived early. We sat on the tarmac for over an hour due to issues at AA gate. I was told I had been rebooked etc. this was in a paid $7k business ticket. I missed the connection by a few minutes. No work had been done to rebook me. No one met the flight with help for anyone. Ground agents knew nothing at all. I and others had to demand help from the agents. It was a colossal fail. AA has no true infrastructure in SEA and poor local management. Despite being EXPLAT and a three million miler on AA, I only fly others internationally and I avoid AA domestically when possible. Bummer.
At least you have the option to do that. Not really that much of an option out here in Phoenix since they have a hub here
@@pinkasteriodea3480 I live in Phoenix as well. It is tough, but I am trying to ease away from the airline as much as possible--for sure on international flights. It is hard, but they have truly let me down too often. No airline is perfect. Some try harder. AA does not.
@@fredricgrethel1717 fair enough, at least we’re getting more service to Europe with Air France. I’m curious to see how they do since both American and British airways have service to Europe as well
Same problem, Seattle isn't that big of a city, it doesn't have the traffic to support it, and the presence of Alaska Airlines and Delta Air Lines is more than enough.
Do a united video please why united didn't last long as a hub or gateway.
American was flying 25 year old 777-200s to LHR from SEA in 2022 while British Airways fielded brand new 787-10 airframes with amazing business and first cabins. American was priced similarly for business with a garbage hard and soft product compared to BA, Virgin, and Delta. As for India routes, good luck competing with subsidized Emirates, Qatar: and Turkish flying through war time Russia. I won’t be flying through Russian airspace, that’s for sure.
These days it will work because they can simply rely on fellow One World partner Alaska Airlines for the feed. Remember it's it's successful for Japan Airlines because they can feed their passengers to in Alaska Airlines domestic flight. More importantly JMB Oneworld emerald status members can you use Alaska Airlines lounges when traveling domestically.
Alaska is a huge player in Seattle so it's surprising to me that AA isn't able to leverage all that Alaska Airlines traffic into an international hub for both East Asia and continental Europe. For the SEA-LHR route, British Airways soaks up all the OneWorld traffic and I'm not sure there's room for AA to operate the same route to compete both with BA and the Sky Team duo of Delta + Virgin Atlantic.
The problem is the demand isn’t high enough for some Asian routes and most people would rather fly an Asian airline if so. Why fly AA when you can fly JAL or ANA to Japan. Then there is the issue of Asian flights being cheaper by a decent amount out of YVR causing a decent amount of locals to make the trip up to YVR to fly to Asia.
@@chi-chengchiu1529 truth. I’ve got a couple of friends with upcoming trips flying out of YVR instead of SEA.
I feel that American has always had a hard time of creating its own “focus cities” or small hubs. They rely too heavily on acquiring things that have worked out for their predecessors.
For example when US Airways was headquartered in KPHX, I could go anywhere, anytime. But after the merger, American really only kept routes to Hub cities and international routes to Central and South America. Everything else feels like it was liquidated and moved to KDFW to strengthen the core network.
I also have noticed they rely heavily on OneWorld partners for their gaps in international service. It’s like asking if you would rather take a direct flight with a OneWorld partner or connect with American at DFW.
Idk what their game is but the other big 2/3 seem to have it better figured out.
Living in Central Washington state I use horizontal air to get to Seattle then if domestic Alaska Air. But I have relocated to the Philippines EvaAir is my choice or Singapore both out of Seattle. Was using AA when flying to South America business class and had to go to Phoenix then switch to Miami but every time from PHX to MIA they put me in economy at business price on the longest part. Total jerks.
it's worth mentioning that AA has several partners to help with the transpacific market, some (not all) of which are considered S-tier airlines: JAL, Cathay Pacific, Malaysian, and Qantas.
also, on an unrelated note, if SFO-BLR is possible, why wouldn't AA try to go to the Maldives instead? the only way to get there right now is to go through either Europe, the Middle East, or Singapore. a nonstop from North America to the Maldives would be a HUGE gamechanger. granted, this would require that the US should get access to Russian airspace again, but if Biden loses in November, it's very plausible.
If I’m correct, American still has the rights to fly Seattle Tokyo, which they purchased from Continental Airlines.
The routes have use it loose it rules so I doubt it. It was probably transferred to another hub. AA filed a complaint on DL when DL was not utilizing their SEA-NRT or possible HND. They were able to snag the route off of DL and transfer it to LAX.
American airlines kinda needs at least a mid sized hub in the pacific nw and i do feel like portland (pdx) could be suitable if they wanted to try again
I don't think they have much feeder traffic going into PDX to make it work. Perhaps American can regroup their Western US base at Phoenix (PHX; already their domestic hub) or return big to Los Angeles (LAX).
@@RK-bx1by or SFO.
@@Sean-Ccan’t United dominate plus a huge star alliance airport. I can see them trying LAX when they finish their renovation and additional gates but those will go to mostly domestic routes.
they didn't fail. They have JAL who flies to almost all the western coast cities in the USA, on top of having Qantas, Cathay pacific, Alaska, and I'm thinking Starlux will join too. There was really zero reason for them, when Alaska Airlines has their hub there, if wanting to go to asia you could fly via Tokyo, Honk Kong, Australia and London for connecting, which are some huge demand routes.
How did you know that “only 50 people per day were flying from Seattle to BLR”? Is there a website that publishes that data? Thx
There are specific websites however they require subscriptions to access such data. I got that info from this article: onemileatatime.com/news/american-airlines-seattle-bangalore-flight/
8:00 This is not correct. American does have non-stop flights to Shanghai/PVG from Dallas/DFW as of 2023.
Thank you, I completely forgot about that route. I hope DFW-HKG resumes at some point.
SJC doesn't have slots.
I think American would have failed without the pandemic. If you look at the competition on the routes and American’s history with long haul flying from the west coast. They would have not been successful against UA to BLR as UA had the bigger market and a larger feed as well as Air India in the Star alliance in India. PVG would have had low margins from the Chinese carriers flooding the market with seats. And four airlines to LHR would have been a difficult road to agin enough traction no matter when it launched. LHR probably could have been successful if some of the other routes were operating and successful. But the cost were probably too high as a stand alone wide-body operation at the airport.
if Alaska and hawaiian merged and then Alaska group went into so much debt and was aquired by American, then American will have a massive presence in Seattle and Hawaii
Not going to happen. The US-AA merger was challenged right off, it took a lot more money and lots of lobbying to get it through with some concessions, but that will never happen again. DOJ will not let the "worlds largest" airline merge with a another carrier again. Alaska Group will do fine. They're not be merging the two airlines. They will retain the names and codeshare with each other. The two airlines will simply have the same parent company
I don't even need to watch anything to know they wanted business traffic and didn't get it. No further questions😂😂
AA has lax,phx long haul
🌎✈
American merging with US Air was the nail in the coffin for a progressive long haul strategy. Current leadership, brought in with the merger, still has the regional mindset of their America West/US Air days. They have zero desire to compete with United and Delta and are happy to codeshare with their one world alliance partners. American is becoming a domestic airline more and more every day.
Regional? That's crazy. AW was a nationwide carrier, in the majors, and US was nationwide and International. They had European destinations that were cut after the merger and never came back. Mostly because they operated on the 757. Those might come back with the 321 XLR comes to the fleet.
Part of the reason is its expensive to fly to Seattle and Seattle's airport is a joke for an international airport
There is a daily flight from DFW to PVG....so american is still flying to China
Seattle can't support more than one legacy carrier having a hub.
Anyone flying a US airline to the Pacific should have their head examined. Greyhound Bus inflight service. Passengers drinking from brown paper bags. No thanks.
I can answer the question in the title of this post in one word…Delta!
They could not compete well with Delta.
Delta is drowning in red ink in Seattle.
I must comment that SEA is a miserable airport: crowded, outdated infrastructure, poor access in and out, minimal mass transit access, miserable traffic trying to get anywhere - not to mention AA has sub-par hard and soft product. I can’t find the win here??
Alaska's hub.
I just returned to SF from a RT on American to Buenos Aires. Get your facts straight.
Americans mediocre product also to blame for their demise in most of the big markets nationally. They can’t compete with Delta or United. Their strategy is a joke. Even publicly claiming to want to be the airline that takes people to NYC, not be a viable player to locals is insane. They’ve practically abandoned Ohare. Yet they think Phoenix and Charlotte are good bets for the long term?
AA flew Fokker 100s from Sea to LAX….now AA is closing down their ORD hub and building up DFW, CLT, PHL. AA was never a large presence in the Midwest. AA is also cutting back service to LAX, SAN, SFO.
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Are you using AI-generated images in your vid?
I don’t think sooo :)
If I were American Airlines
I would abandon the LAX hub all together, cut the PHX hub by 50 percent, and put it all I. LAS Vegas, where America West operated as a hub
are you indian
Probably because of their name.
What does that have to do with anything?
American failed in Seattle because they didn’t have any electric planes.😢
Not only does Delta have a history from long before 2014 due to Northwest as mentioned in other comments, Delta acquired Western in 1987 and WA had merged with PNA in 1967 which had a presence in Seattle since Seattle is in reality the “largest city in Alaska”.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodley_Airways
Delta acquired WA but they gradually frittered away most of the west coast routes. Then Delta established PDX as their west coast AP hub but that was short lived. It wasn't until their acquisition of NW that really gave them critical mass to become dominant in the PNW (ie Seattle).
American resumed flights to Shanghai
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