My boss walked in on me watching this vid and called me a nerd, but jokes on him because now I have a better understanding of capital ship combat and he doesn’t.
Thank you Ekharts, I’m part of a Star Wars DnD 5e group (because I’m a MEGA NERD) and I was in charge of a large fleet to fight the big baddies in the DMs story (a faction called the Neo Empire, a group of people that, after thousands of years after the fall of the empire, they liked the idea of it and brought it back) and I watched your video to prepare for the space battles. The DM doesn’t know much about how to properly conduct space battles (he’s used to the medievalness of normal DnD) but since I watched your videos on space battles and different tactics, I was able to deal with him throwing ships at us very easily. Thank you again
Your analysis on the Battle of Caamas in SW legends would be cool. In particular Gar Stazi fighting retreat and how he achieved he's battle group or fleet to stay intact after and on how the Republic could possibly won the battle or prolonged it to a stalemate.
I imagined this like a "mega-classroom", in where everyone of us where imperial officers or Imperial Navy´s cadets (students in summary) and Eckharts is an imperial commander aka "our teacher". Good video, so, according to you video and to the design of the Imperial Star Destroyers.... The best part to attack those class of ships is behind they?, because from what I understand, they don´t have cannons in the back, or not so much cannons, or blocked by the bridge.
The starfighter control makes me think of the differences between Fantasy Flight’s Star Wars Armada and X-Wing miniatures game. In X-Wing, you’re doing pinpoint maneuvering. In Armada, you have squadrons that work best when directed by the capital ships. They can also be the deciding factor in one of those battles.
If I was a Commander of a fleet and Ackbar did his "slash" I'd love it. I'd just rotate my Star Destroyers on a Z Y axis and tilting them frontwards towards the cruisers so that we kept a constant barrage on them as they tried to "pass through".
Jesse Nichols they block hyperspace lanes instead of an entire area That’s why on screen blockades are only in one side of a planet because that side is the side facing the lane
Blockading an entire planet is SO difficult that if you have enough ships or other orbital assets to do it, you may as well just take or glass the planet. Unlike what we see in Star Wars movies and shows, a ship lacking an endless supply of fuel does not just sit over a non-equatorial location of a planet. It has to orbit. To cover every possible escape path will take massive numbers of things in orbit.
I have always wanted a Star Wars movie to do true justice to a large fleet battle, where the capital ships actually use their firepower instead of just being set pieces..
I just wish Star Wars (and honestly MOST sci-fi) space battles would break the plane. It is unreasonable to always have your enemy fighting you on the same fleet plane that you have established for your side. At least BSG has the friendly ships in a 3-D fleet, with planar orientation. Star Trek and Star Wars are seemingly incapable of having ships not share the same 'up' even when in deep space.
Yeah, the orientation thing was always a bit weird. I think I understand where it comes from though; Back when physical models were used, it's actually quite difficult to 'turn' those models, plus they are only structurally stable in certain orientations. An example from Star Trek where the Enterprise D did a 90 degree roll actually required them to film 3 distinct shots and composit them together, which is a LOT of work for a TV show. Meanwhile, Babylon 5, which was entirely CG did a much better job of such things, so it's reasonable to assume that filming technology has an impact. That doesn't excuse later star wars and Star trek though (the prequels are almost entirely CGI, as are many of the fleet battles in DS9, much of Voyager and Enterprise's special effects, and the TNG films from Insurrection onwards) As to some other aspects of space combat that don't quite make sense, there are some in-lore handwaves for these, which aren't generally mentioned, but do kind of make sense. For instance, Star Trek ships fly as though they're in atmosphere much of the time (if the ship turns, it moves in the direction it turned with little to no sliding - there are exceptions though; we see the Defiant slide through turns in some shots near DS9 - but this is still more of a skidding turn like an aircraft than what you would expect to see in space) The reasoning why this might be the case would be the observation that 'Impulse' drives are non-newtonian; They don't work through action-reaction rocket propulsion, but more of a hybrid technique involving a degree of thrust combined with manipulation of an energy field; It stands to reason this may have some qualities that don't obey newtonian physics directly. Obviously this is a complete handwave, and it only explains why ships turn the way they do, not why they're never out of plane with one another (one ship upside down or at an angle to the other) I guess someone just keeps deciding that it looks stupid? Ah well. XD
Obviously, you're not a Mon-Calamari. Otherwise your five battle tactics would have been as follows: 1. Ramming. 2. Ramming a small ship into a big ship. 3. Ramming a big ship into a big ship. 4. Ramming a small ship into a big ship, thus ramming said big ship into another big ship, causing those ships to crash into an important military installation of sorts. 5. Hyperspace ramming.
So, you are basically part of a Kamikaze unit, I will only make that with ships like the Recusant class light destroyer, because it can basically be pilot by itself with a small crew of droid pilots
Laser combat makes no sense. Magic shields that somehow stop lasers AND kinetic energy (Mass*Velocity) make no sense. Kinetic weapons reign supreme in realistic space warfare. And wtf are none of these people wearing space suits when all it takes is one hole in the room to end your life. You'd pass out within 15 seconds and die in a matter of minutes, with all sorts of nasty injuries in between.
Star Wars capital ship tactics had always fascinated me. Equipped with advanced technology, but sometimes uses them in a way that would be acceptable in WW1. Quite fascinating indeed.
Adam Bielen It can not, that would make it nearly useless. The cannon ball was meant to smash into a hull and blow shrapnel all about thus killing and injuring the crew.
King Franz Joseph of Hungary the Napoleonic Wars Ships of the Line hulls are far thicker on the sides then the prow and stern so a cannon ball isn't even guaranteed to penetrate. Also cannon balls don't explode so the only way to produce shrapnel is to destroy things inside the ship like bulkheads, supplies, cannons, etc which you can hit far more of if you shoot down the length of the ship (you will also probably hit more crew too).
Adam Bielen Balls your create shrapnel by blowing wooden fragments around. Napoleonic Warships were very rarely ever destroyed but instead disabled to the point they couldn't fight any longer.
Idea: do an episode where you describe your “perfect fleet”, with access to ships from Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, and/or other sci-if universes. (7th try)
Lifelong Star Wars fan here and you’re killing it analyzing things I’ve been thinking about for decades Eck! Thank you! One thing I’ve always wondered tho, what is the effective RANGE of turbolasers? Great analysis with the different defense zones, but can you put some numbers on them???
There's really no good range figures. In the x wing books, for example, it seems like a few kms, in other sources it's hundreds or hundreds of thousands of kms.
in the highest ranked sources (the novels and movies for ep 3 and 6) it's either explciitly given a range of thousands of kilometers for the ep 3 novelization, or implied to be such in episode 6 given the scale of the battle of endor)
EckhartsLadder so here's a question, what about the firing speed, specificly turbo lasers vs laser cannons? I would assume turbo lasers would be faster while cannons would be more powerful, based on the names.
stapuft It's actually the opposite (Legends writers rarely knew much military terminology). Turbos are more powerful but slower and less accurate than cannons, therefore turbos are used against capital ships and lasers as point defense.
DrearyPlane8 it seems more like they jUst wanted to be counterintuitive, possibly even on pourpose, I am pretty Shure in the movies they say "Fire turbolaser batteries" And then rapid fire bursts fire from the star destroyer....I do believe... But again that's just going from the non Disney wars universe, and I haven't read much of the.....harder more millitary EU books, I like the more adventurous books, and the more philosophical ones. But loads of the authors put pararells between real life battles and weapons into the works....but you are right about a few things they tended to stick with an imagined 2d plane for space battles for some reason, and other odd things like that...I am just pretty Shure that somewhere somehow, the 2 got mixed up somewhere along the way and no one corrected them untill it was too late.
The Ackbar Slash looks like a great way to get yourself killed. It's basically lining your ships up so that they can be summarily double broadsided ala Beckett in the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie. Except it's worse because earth ships of that time couldn't fire too much forward at you while you closed the distance. I can sorta see the appeal, since if you can break through, the ISD's have notoriously exposed rears, but the first ship in the slash is almost certainly on a suicide mission to soak up fire for those behind.
Chris sonofPear that’s the problem. The ackbar slash is basically allowing the opponent to top the T, which is very bad for you. As for Nelson. IIRC, he used disposable fireships to break the lines, not his ships of the line. Though I may be remembering the Spanish Armada instead (or both, fireships to break enemy lines was fairly common). And yes, mon calamari ships have great shields, but ISDs have tremendous firepower. Especially when you’re approaching in a direction that allows them to bring all guns to bare.
In Trafalgar, Nelson basically did the same thing, as he knew the British had the superior ships. He raked the backs and fronts of the French with his broadsides, winning him the battle.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Yeah, thats true. Easy to intercept a missle going mach 0.9 or mach 1, hard to intercept a 16 inch naval cannon shell going mach twice the speed of sound
If you want to see that applied in another series check out the Honorverse by David Weber. While not as Hard a Scifi series as The Expanse, has a very effective missile combat and some enormous and well thought out fleet strategies applying many similar tactics, concepts and strategies described in this video.
try legend of galactic heroes (or first, starship operators). starship operators does have a pretty hard sf combat system. oh and read the atomic rockets website.
The thing you mentioned about having ships jump in from nearby systems made me think about the Battle of Endor. The Rebel Alliance leadership should have known that the plans to the second death star would not be that easily obtained. They should have jumped their primary Fleet to a nearby system and then sent reconnaissance vessels to scout the entire Endor system.. this way they could have avoided being boxed in during the battle. After all the only reason the Battle of Endor wasn't a disaster that ended the Rebellion was because the imperial capital ships were not permitted to engage the primary Rebel Fleet. Many of the most significant victories against the Empire during the Galactic Civil War had very little to do with Rebel ingenuity and almost everything to do with Imperial incompetence. Also, how would 3 Starhawk fare against a Resurgent class Star Destroyer?
The Rebels expected that there would be an Imperial Fleet there, note Han and co not being shocked at the Star Dreadnought guarding Death Star II. They didnt expect an ambush to occur. Also, the Reels did fight hard to get those plans, the same as they did to get the Death Star I plans. Also at least SOME of the Imperial Fleet was engaging the rebel ships in long-rang combat. The Ep 6 novelization mentions Liberty was in such a long-range duel when the Death Star II blew it up.
Terenin I know right? After all of that and with Admiral(IT'S A TRAP!) Ackbar still alive they should have known it was a trap. All of the best Minds in the rebel alliance we're at that meeting and it didn't occur to any of them that just maybe they were being set up for an ambush? That's just sad.
Pretty sure they knew it was likely an ambush, although they obviously underestimated it, they just decided it was worth risking the ambush to potentially take out the Death Star II
WB1813 maybe. I suppose they could have acted rashly out of desperation. It's still kind of funny that if the Empire had spent all of the money they wasted on the two death stars on work programs and renewable energy. They could've Foster enough good will among their subjects that they would have made any Rebellion impossible because the public-at-large would not have supported it.
They were clueless about the ambush. Sure, they knew there would be a defence force around DS2, but they weren’t expecting a solid portion of the Imperial Fleet. They also thought they had the element of surprise, which they did not. We can see this in the first mission of Battlefront 2, where Iden Versio is aboard the Alliance Intelligence MC80 where she overhears Ackbar talk about it. On this same incursion, she deleted an intercepted, not-yet-decrypted message from an Imperial Commander, calling the fleet to the far side of Endor.
Something I wish they would portray on screen: 3d combat. Other than some a few shots in Revenge of the Sith, all the capital ships duke it out on the same parallel plane, even if there are some ships flying above or below others. I want to see a Rebel fleet launching bombing runs perpendicular to an Imperial fleet, from above or below. Space combat should be in three dimensions, and not like they are a bunch of WW1/WW2 naval ships. Ships should be pointed every which way in 360 degrees on an x,y,z axis.
5 worst concepts of the OT: 5 best concepts of the OT: 5 worst concepts of the PT: 5 best concepts of the PT: 5 worst concepts of the new trilogy: 5 best concepts of the new trilogy (these latter two to be done after episode 9).
ackbar slash is basically Tralfagar with the British bold column move against the French navy that Lord Nelson used. A lot of these ship battles can reflect actual real life naval warfare at sea.
Hmmm,... What about if you covered "Space battle for Geonosis" from the Star Wars Jedi Starfighter game? The one with the Saboath faction cruisers and fighter squadrons? ?_? Please and thank you :D
70th Attempt: Yuuzhan Vong v. Reapers * This is actually the OG attempt number I was going for but it's now 130 haha * The tactics stuff is super cool Eck, keep it up
Don't forget that you can basically throw all of this out since Disney pulled hyperspace ramming out of their ass. Just equip a handful of proton torpedoes with hyperdrives and WHAM-O. Hahahaha what a joke. Hey man this was a great video. Space battles are my favorite element of Star Wars. Anyone who feels the same way will find a treasure trove in the X-Wing books from the EU. Those are my favorite SW books
I just realized that space combat in Star Wars is likely influenced by real life Naval combat, but with more factors considering it's space. Capital ships in Star Wars are exactly like Battleships, heavy cruisers, and battle cruisers, having the most ship to ship firepower among all classes and are purely designed for this role (I know Star Wars capital ships have compliments of fighters, but we don't have that in real life but the concept still applies. Just mix Battleships and Carriers together). Although they have defensive capabilities against fighters and bombers, it's best to have them in a fleet so they are supported by smaller screen vessels, otherwise they're giant targets for fighter squadrons. A perfect example of a capital ship being overwhelmed by fighters because it was left unsupported is the sinking of the Yamato. Watch Potential History here ruclips.net/video/iJiOJxwjqYI/видео.html If you are interested in a bit of the history behind it and how it was sunk. In summary, it's like I said above, it was unsupported by carriers since the Japanese had all their carriers sunk in the battle of midway, and the Yamato was unable to fend off the fighters. So that comment you made where fighters can play a big hand in winning a battle is based around some real life fact. Sure Star destroyers are powerful ships that can bring entire systems to their knees, but without proper support elements I could see them being overwhelmed by fighters and bombers. Especially considering the blind spot they have to their rear.
@@genericusername1993 Probably, and much like in real life, AA fire isn't as effective as one might think when needed to defend against air attacks from fighters/bombers. I'm assuming to a degree thats the same in Star wars lore.
Lord Anubis actually it can if you watch the jedi crash episode in the clone wars you see how effective 5 munificent frigates in high altitudes can be against 3 venators below them.
wargearinternational in space - yes, however in strong gravity wells and in atmosphere it can be impossible without crashing commanded vessel. Then having more altitude than enemy can have some effect, especially if your guns can point downwards while enemy can't point their guns upwards
Make this a Galactic Versus episode: STAR WARS 2M Saber tank vs. HALO M820Skorpion tank vs. COMMAND AND CONQUER GDI Mammoth MK III I'd love to see which of theese tanks comes out on top.
No. Nelson offered his _t_ to the enemy, and took advantage of their assumption he was an idiot to try something that would have gotten an average navy destroyed for little effect. Trafalgar is somewhat like Cannae; it's one of those stunning victories that otherwise competent commanders use as a model to destroy their own forces.
Best transforming fighter: VF-11 thunderbolt from Macross plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the mecha tengu from command and conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber Mospeda.
Nice I've always preferred capship warfare to fighter warfare in Star Wars which is why most of my Star Wars RP naval characters were capship officers though some were former fighter pilots, and had fighter pilot skills in case they were needed. I prefer frigates to any other ship type in both fiction and history so If I build a fleet it tends to be frigate heavy. (For example in Star Wars Empire at War Forces of Corruption my typical Alliance capship squadron has a mix of four CR90s, Marauders and Corellian gunships, eight to twelve Nebulons-Bs and MC30Cs, 3 Assault Frigate IIs, and an MC80) I am curious why you claim Alliance capital ships are poorly armed for anti-capship work though. CR90s have 6 turbolaser mounts, Nebulon=Bs have a dozen turbos and a dozen lasers, DP20s have a solid mix of turbos and antifighter quadlasers, and MC80s have four dozen turbolaser batteries and no anti-fighter lasers
Funny that the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook decided to attribute the simple tactic of breaking a line to Admiral Ackbar, a leader known for his brilliance, when it is both undoubtedly ancient and not well suited for the Rebellion at all. And I can't imagine a space combat scenario when capping the T would be a viable tactic at all. The sourcebook authors just ported battleship era naval tactics straight into Star Wars without taking into account the prevalence and power of fighters in the SW universe. Treating space as 2D plane is tolerable, since that's almost ubiquitous in scifi, but the existence of fighters carrying capital ship killing weaponry should mean that large ships primarily act as carriers.
“Capping the T”is actually a real naval tactic and was used very well in the Battle of Jutland during WWI by the British who forced the Germans to retreat and destroyed their surface capabilities
Also, another thing about the Akbar Slash. If you have ships in the middle of the enemy formation, they enemy will have to consider the possibility that one ship will miss its target and hit a friendly ship on the other side, especially if you are using smaller ships.
Something that's never really taken into account is that no warship can have effective armour over the whole craft. Historically, 'citadels' inside the main armour protected the most vital parts. Many areas had light, if any armour. Strike craft might do a lot of damage in the opening months of a war, but better and more numerous organic AA on capital ships would lessen vulnerability and largely negate the normal roles of fighters, or bombers.
I've covered that somewhat here: ruclips.net/video/zYU-TO_TD1w/видео.html Most major planets would have several, smaller planets would sometimes have one.
MuffinTrooper 66 It also really depends on what planet. Some planets couldn’t afford one. A place with a large population, or a place with a thriving industry, would most definitely have one.
OK eckhartsladder, what do you think of a series where there is certain situations that are made up by your audience and you have certain ships to do a certain thing that the viewer specifies. Like trying to break a blockade with very little big ships you can use.
#askeck Why are the turbolasers on ships so tiny compared to their overall size in star wars? On ww2 battleships, the cannons take up a large amout of area on the ship, and on the Star Destroyer they are just these small barrels on the side of a superstructure.
Interesting. Regarding planetary shields and orbital bombardment, Thrawn really was a tactical and strategic genius. As evidenced by his used of cloaked ships positioned just inside planetary shields in order make it look like the ships outside the shield can fire right through it, which caused at least one world to surrender without a prolonged fight.
My boss walked in on me watching this vid and called me a nerd, but jokes on him because now I have a better understanding of capital ship combat and he doesn’t.
@amarsatori So true
@amarsatori I would argue we have to little to go on to come with such heavy critisicm. Also nothing wrong with being a nerd.
@amarsatori
Gezz chill dude
Challenge him to empire at war
@@douglasparkinson4123 The main reason why I watched this video. Lol.
Thank you Ekharts, I’m part of a Star Wars DnD 5e group (because I’m a MEGA NERD) and I was in charge of a large fleet to fight the big baddies in the DMs story (a faction called the Neo Empire, a group of people that, after thousands of years after the fall of the empire, they liked the idea of it and brought it back) and I watched your video to prepare for the space battles. The DM doesn’t know much about how to properly conduct space battles (he’s used to the medievalness of normal DnD) but since I watched your videos on space battles and different tactics, I was able to deal with him throwing ships at us very easily. Thank you again
This kind of videos make me geek out so hard.
Your analysis on the Battle of Caamas in SW legends would be cool. In particular Gar Stazi fighting retreat and how he achieved he's battle group or fleet to stay intact after and on how the Republic could possibly won the battle or prolonged it to a stalemate.
I imagined this like a "mega-classroom", in where everyone of us where imperial officers or Imperial Navy´s cadets (students in summary) and Eckharts is an imperial commander aka "our teacher".
Good video, so, according to you video and to the design of the Imperial Star Destroyers....
The best part to attack those class of ships is behind they?, because from what I understand, they don´t have cannons in the back, or not so much cannons, or blocked by the bridge.
The starfighter control makes me think of the differences between Fantasy Flight’s Star Wars Armada and X-Wing miniatures game. In X-Wing, you’re doing pinpoint maneuvering. In Armada, you have squadrons that work best when directed by the capital ships. They can also be the deciding factor in one of those battles.
If I was a Commander of a fleet and Ackbar did his "slash" I'd love it. I'd just rotate my Star Destroyers on a Z Y axis and tilting them frontwards towards the cruisers so that we kept a constant barrage on them as they tried to "pass through".
Do the battle of Salucami
The thrawn pincer ‘to defeat an enemy you must know them’
Walker tactics
Thor (Starcraft) vs Scarab (Halo)
You should talk about how you would command a blockade
I wonder how blockades work in space....unlike water
Jesse Nichols they block hyperspace lanes instead of an entire area
That’s why on screen blockades are only in one side of a planet because that side is the side facing the lane
Blockading an entire planet is SO difficult that if you have enough ships or other orbital assets to do it, you may as well just take or glass the planet. Unlike what we see in Star Wars movies and shows, a ship lacking an endless supply of fuel does not just sit over a non-equatorial location of a planet. It has to orbit. To cover every possible escape path will take massive numbers of things in orbit.
@@MonkeyJedi99 That's why you gotta blockade the system, not the planet. Like another commenter said, through blockading hyperspace lanes.
@@alalalala57 And that only works if the people you are blockading are not crazy enough to hyperspace out on a non-lane vector.
He protec
He attac
But most importantly
He analyse space combat
ΔΗΜΟΣΘΕΝΗΣ ΜΠΑΛΑ You made my day sir
Yes
Yes. Bravo dude
damn
It could have been so much better if he spelled "analyze" right
I have always wanted a Star Wars movie to do true justice to a large fleet battle, where the capital ships actually use their firepower instead of just being set pieces..
Clone wars series did it a bit of Justice
I just wish Star Wars (and honestly MOST sci-fi) space battles would break the plane. It is unreasonable to always have your enemy fighting you on the same fleet plane that you have established for your side. At least BSG has the friendly ships in a 3-D fleet, with planar orientation. Star Trek and Star Wars are seemingly incapable of having ships not share the same 'up' even when in deep space.
Yeah, the orientation thing was always a bit weird.
I think I understand where it comes from though; Back when physical models were used, it's actually quite difficult to 'turn' those models, plus they are only structurally stable in certain orientations.
An example from Star Trek where the Enterprise D did a 90 degree roll actually required them to film 3 distinct shots and composit them together, which is a LOT of work for a TV show.
Meanwhile, Babylon 5, which was entirely CG did a much better job of such things, so it's reasonable to assume that filming technology has an impact.
That doesn't excuse later star wars and Star trek though (the prequels are almost entirely CGI, as are many of the fleet battles in DS9, much of Voyager and Enterprise's special effects, and the TNG films from Insurrection onwards)
As to some other aspects of space combat that don't quite make sense, there are some in-lore handwaves for these, which aren't generally mentioned, but do kind of make sense.
For instance, Star Trek ships fly as though they're in atmosphere much of the time (if the ship turns, it moves in the direction it turned with little to no sliding - there are exceptions though; we see the Defiant slide through turns in some shots near DS9 - but this is still more of a skidding turn like an aircraft than what you would expect to see in space)
The reasoning why this might be the case would be the observation that 'Impulse' drives are non-newtonian; They don't work through action-reaction rocket propulsion, but more of a hybrid technique involving a degree of thrust combined with manipulation of an energy field;
It stands to reason this may have some qualities that don't obey newtonian physics directly.
Obviously this is a complete handwave, and it only explains why ships turn the way they do, not why they're never out of plane with one another (one ship upside down or at an angle to the other)
I guess someone just keeps deciding that it looks stupid?
Ah well. XD
@@MonkeyJedi99 not really.
@@MonkeyJedi99 The only Sci-fi media I've seen explicitly address this issue is Ender's Game
Obviously, you're not a Mon-Calamari. Otherwise your five battle tactics would have been as follows:
1. Ramming.
2. Ramming a small ship into a big ship.
3. Ramming a big ship into a big ship.
4. Ramming a small ship into a big ship, thus ramming said big ship into another big ship, causing those ships to crash into an important military installation of sorts.
5. Hyperspace ramming.
😂
Technically your ship is your biggest weapon in the form of a gigantic torpedo...so, valid tactic. Yes.
So, you are basically part of a Kamikaze unit, I will only make that with ships like the Recusant class light destroyer, because it can basically be pilot by itself with a small crew of droid pilots
Or get a mon cal cruiser
Laser combat makes no sense. Magic shields that somehow stop lasers AND kinetic energy (Mass*Velocity) make no sense. Kinetic weapons reign supreme in realistic space warfare.
And wtf are none of these people wearing space suits when all it takes is one hole in the room to end your life.
You'd pass out within 15 seconds and die in a matter of minutes, with all sorts of nasty injuries in between.
Star Wars capital ship tactics had always fascinated me. Equipped with advanced technology, but sometimes uses them in a way that would be acceptable in WW1. Quite fascinating indeed.
Captain Cutter yeah
Push that even earlier to the times of galleons and broadsides.
It’s funny how in Legends the ranges of ships are in the light years.
Star Wars has absolutely no tactics at all. Its literally just sitting there shooting at each other, no maneuvering just nothing.
That's also tactic my Emperor, not the most complicated but it is a tactic of exhaustion. Last ship standing win.
US airforce ad on this video,
This is a naval video
Go post your ad on the starfighter video
You commented this 3 times lmao
Generation Tech would be Proud
The ads are targetted at you, not the video author lol
Joke's on you, the USN is a way more useful airforce than the Air Force.
Starfighters are the Star Wars Airforce though. Get it right!
Ekharts ladder should become an imperial commander.
Darth Vader No, he is too competent for that.
Jaak Sootak
Nah, most of them were competent. And the incompetent part lived only until they failed Darth Vader
Darth Vader no a rebel commander
Darth Vader one that teaches new recruits the mistakes of the empire and to not do them again
Jaak Sootak how about a grand admiral I think he is about that level because grand admiral Thrawn is in my mind more competent
Yay, tactics breakdown. I love when you go over tactics, keep it up man.
That Gamer yup
What does he use when explaining the tacticts?
Lulatsch ツ what do you mean.
the Akbar slash was Invented by Lord Admiral Haratio Nelson of England During the Battle of Trafalgar
Amanda Franks ye except it wouldnt work well in starwars because the ships actually fire foward
Also a cannon ball could easily smash its way through the entire length of a ship of the line, causing massive damage. Turbo lazers do not do this.
Adam Bielen It can not, that would make it nearly useless. The cannon ball was meant to smash into a hull and blow shrapnel all about thus killing and injuring the crew.
King Franz Joseph of Hungary the Napoleonic Wars Ships of the Line hulls are far thicker on the sides then the prow and stern so a cannon ball isn't even guaranteed to penetrate. Also cannon balls don't explode so the only way to produce shrapnel is to destroy things inside the ship like bulkheads, supplies, cannons, etc which you can hit far more of if you shoot down the length of the ship (you will also probably hit more crew too).
Adam Bielen Balls your create shrapnel by blowing wooden fragments around. Napoleonic Warships were very rarely ever destroyed but instead disabled to the point they couldn't fight any longer.
Idea: do an episode where you describe your “perfect fleet”, with access to ships from Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, and/or other sci-if universes.
(7th try)
I'm down for this.
Yeah.
have you heard of Warhammer
Lifelong Star Wars fan here and you’re killing it analyzing things I’ve been thinking about for decades Eck! Thank you! One thing I’ve always wondered tho, what is the effective RANGE of turbolasers? Great analysis with the different defense zones, but can you put some numbers on them???
There's really no good range figures. In the x wing books, for example, it seems like a few kms, in other sources it's hundreds or hundreds of thousands of kms.
in the highest ranked sources (the novels and movies for ep 3 and 6) it's either explciitly given a range of thousands of kilometers for the ep 3 novelization, or implied to be such in episode 6 given the scale of the battle of endor)
EckhartsLadder so here's a question, what about the firing speed, specificly turbo lasers vs laser cannons? I would assume turbo lasers would be faster while cannons would be more powerful, based on the names.
stapuft It's actually the opposite (Legends writers rarely knew much military terminology). Turbos are more powerful but slower and less accurate than cannons, therefore turbos are used against capital ships and lasers as point defense.
DrearyPlane8 it seems more like they jUst wanted to be counterintuitive, possibly even on pourpose, I am pretty Shure in the movies they say
"Fire turbolaser batteries"
And then rapid fire bursts fire from the star destroyer....I do believe...
But again that's just going from the non Disney wars universe, and I haven't read much of the.....harder more millitary EU books, I like the more adventurous books, and the more philosophical ones.
But loads of the authors put pararells between real life battles and weapons into the works....but you are right about a few things they tended to stick with an imagined 2d plane for space battles for some reason, and other odd things like that...I am just pretty Shure that somewhere somehow, the 2 got mixed up somewhere along the way and no one corrected them untill it was too late.
The Ackbar Slash looks like a great way to get yourself killed. It's basically lining your ships up so that they can be summarily double broadsided ala Beckett in the last Pirates of the Caribbean movie.
Except it's worse because earth ships of that time couldn't fire too much forward at you while you closed the distance.
I can sorta see the appeal, since if you can break through, the ISD's have notoriously exposed rears, but the first ship in the slash is almost certainly on a suicide mission to soak up fire for those behind.
Justafan IV If you are going to do it with anything, then it should be the Mon Calamari cruisers as they have notoriously strong shields.
I think the Ackbar slash is based off the move Nelson did at Trafalgar which won him the battle
Yes - don't forget to 'Cap the T'...
Chris sonofPear that’s the problem. The ackbar slash is basically allowing the opponent to top the T, which is very bad for you.
As for Nelson. IIRC, he used disposable fireships to break the lines, not his ships of the line. Though I may be remembering the Spanish Armada instead (or both, fireships to break enemy lines was fairly common).
And yes, mon calamari ships have great shields, but ISDs have tremendous firepower. Especially when you’re approaching in a direction that allows them to bring all guns to bare.
In Trafalgar, Nelson basically did the same thing, as he knew the British had the superior ships. He raked the backs and fronts of the French with his broadsides, winning him the battle.
Grand Admiral Eck vs Grand Admiral Thrawn
Aarav Tulsyan yeah
Aarav Tulsyan dew it!
I want this so much!!!!!!!!
4d chess at its finest!
@Teemu Christensen way to kill the vibe
The ultimate Capital Ship combat strategy is to throw the pommel to end the enemy fleet rightly.
I get the reference, but to use an angle of that idea, it astounds me that no Star Wars factions uses ship weapons that throw mass.
@@MonkeyJedi99 From my understanding, it would probably be able to be shot down if at long range. Maybe at short range tho.
@@awhahoo I suppose it would depend on how fast and how small the mass was.
A huge slow missile is easier to intercept than a very fast railgun round.
@@MonkeyJedi99 Yeah, thats true. Easy to intercept a missle going mach 0.9 or mach 1, hard to intercept a 16 inch naval cannon shell going mach twice the speed of sound
its almost as if you are trying to recruit us into the Republic by teaching us their tactics 😕
“I’m a Toydarian, mind tricks don’t work on me.”
For the Republic!
Uniwaffle 61 whats with the disappointed face?
THANK you! I rarely see people discuss Capital Ship tactics/combat in general, and even less in the sci-fi setting.
If you want to see that applied in another series check out the Honorverse by David Weber. While not as Hard a Scifi series as The Expanse, has a very effective missile combat and some enormous and well thought out fleet strategies applying many similar tactics, concepts and strategies described in this video.
Isteak80 ya I have a hard time finding people to talk about it my self
haha, honorverse reference yeah!
try legend of galactic heroes (or first, starship operators). starship operators does have a pretty hard sf combat system.
oh and read the atomic rockets website.
Halo has some good stuff in the expanded universe. The Keyes Loop is genuinely brilliant, for example.
The Yuuzhan Vong vs the Covenant
The thing you mentioned about having ships jump in from nearby systems made me think about the Battle of Endor. The Rebel Alliance leadership should have known that the plans to the second death star would not be that easily obtained. They should have jumped their primary Fleet to a nearby system and then sent reconnaissance vessels to scout the entire Endor system.. this way they could have avoided being boxed in during the battle. After all the only reason the Battle of Endor wasn't a disaster that ended the Rebellion was because the imperial capital ships were not permitted to engage the primary Rebel Fleet. Many of the most significant victories against the Empire during the Galactic Civil War had very little to do with Rebel ingenuity and almost everything to do with Imperial incompetence. Also, how would 3 Starhawk fare against a Resurgent class Star Destroyer?
The Rebels expected that there would be an Imperial Fleet there, note Han and co not being shocked at the Star Dreadnought guarding Death Star II. They didnt expect an ambush to occur. Also, the Reels did fight hard to get those plans, the same as they did to get the Death Star I plans. Also at least SOME of the Imperial Fleet was engaging the rebel ships in long-rang combat. The Ep 6 novelization mentions Liberty was in such a long-range duel when the Death Star II blew it up.
Terenin I know right? After all of that and with Admiral(IT'S A TRAP!) Ackbar still alive they should have known it was a trap. All of the best Minds in the rebel alliance we're at that meeting and it didn't occur to any of them that just maybe they were being set up for an ambush? That's just sad.
Pretty sure they knew it was likely an ambush, although they obviously underestimated it, they just decided it was worth risking the ambush to potentially take out the Death Star II
WB1813 maybe. I suppose they could have acted rashly out of desperation. It's still kind of funny that if the Empire had spent all of the money they wasted on the two death stars on work programs and renewable energy. They could've Foster enough good will among their subjects that they would have made any Rebellion impossible because the public-at-large would not have supported it.
They were clueless about the ambush. Sure, they knew there would be a defence force around DS2, but they weren’t expecting a solid portion of the Imperial Fleet. They also thought they had the element of surprise, which they did not.
We can see this in the first mission of Battlefront 2, where Iden Versio is aboard the Alliance Intelligence MC80 where she overhears Ackbar talk about it.
On this same incursion, she deleted an intercepted, not-yet-decrypted message from an Imperial Commander, calling the fleet to the far side of Endor.
I love how the Thrawn Pincer is basically a standard bubble camp in Eve Online.
Also, your dog is lovely!
Something I wish they would portray on screen: 3d combat. Other than some a few shots in Revenge of the Sith, all the capital ships duke it out on the same parallel plane, even if there are some ships flying above or below others. I want to see a Rebel fleet launching bombing runs perpendicular to an Imperial fleet, from above or below. Space combat should be in three dimensions, and not like they are a bunch of WW1/WW2 naval ships. Ships should be pointed every which way in 360 degrees on an x,y,z axis.
But will this help me in Star wars Empire at war ? hmmm
Leo When it comes down too in that game is Tactics, Strategy, and Galactic Conqust. The battles them selfs are mosh pits.
And target the hardpoints, including engines. Use ion cannons a lot...
Yes, never attack an Imperial from the front
totalwar179 Just spam them from the distance with a Marauder cruiser. Job done haha
Hypervelocity gun is always handy....
Scarab (halo 2) vs scarab (halo 3) vs scarab (halo wars 2) vs kraken (halo 5)
FLAK guns for the win!!
Crossing the T is actually a naval tactic that goes back to the age of sail! That's really cool that they implement it in the SW universe.
5 worst concepts of the OT: 5 best concepts of the OT: 5 worst concepts of the PT: 5 best concepts of the PT: 5 worst concepts of the new trilogy: 5 best concepts of the new trilogy (these latter two to be done after episode 9).
The basics: Just fling your ships at hyperspeed into the enemy capital ship first, and then you win!
Well that’s a one and one million chance holdo was lucky that the hyper speed ram worked
@@kingsway.183 I don’t think Holdo was trying to ram supremacy if it was one in million I think she was trying to escape
ackbar slash is basically Tralfagar with the British bold column move against the French navy that Lord Nelson used.
A lot of these ship battles can reflect actual real life naval warfare at sea.
Notification squad assemble!
Pat Moon I wasn't even in the notification squad I just got here at the perfect time
Bastard of Infamy same
Notification 3 Standing by
Notification leader, this is notification two, standing by!
Josu Hernando idk
This gave me some ideas for my next Armada game.
Loving the videos about ships and naval combat.
Attempt 16: Please like and comment thank you 🙂
2 Harrower Dreadnaughts vs 1 Imperial Star Destroyer
You have my like!
Hmmm,... What about if you covered "Space battle for Geonosis" from the Star Wars Jedi Starfighter game? The one with the Saboath faction cruisers and fighter squadrons? ?_? Please and thank you :D
Let's test that on EaW!
yolodanstagueule If only your ships listened to your command.
Sven Kečkeš and not do some weird as turn behind so they can fire at your engines maneuver
70th Attempt:
Yuuzhan Vong v. Reapers
* This is actually the OG attempt number I was going for but it's now 130 haha
* The tactics stuff is super cool Eck, keep it up
Halo next plz
Unikraken Halo tactics, if possible.
Could we please get a Halo Universe space combat basics video? Please!
on 3:45 what does the red indicate?
Side firing arcs
EckhartsLadder
A Video on my Birthday thank you Eckhart
Is the range going to be a lot better than the Mega Star Destroyer's?
Tim Bartsch happy birthday man
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars Universe (All Eras and Races Combined)
27th Attempt
Don't forget that you can basically throw all of this out since Disney pulled hyperspace ramming out of their ass. Just equip a handful of proton torpedoes with hyperdrives and WHAM-O. Hahahaha what a joke.
Hey man this was a great video. Space battles are my favorite element of Star Wars. Anyone who feels the same way will find a treasure trove in the X-Wing books from the EU. Those are my favorite SW books
I just realized that space combat in Star Wars is likely influenced by real life Naval combat, but with more factors considering it's space.
Capital ships in Star Wars are exactly like Battleships, heavy cruisers, and battle cruisers, having the most ship to ship firepower among all classes and are purely designed for this role (I know Star Wars capital ships have compliments of fighters, but we don't have that in real life but the concept still applies. Just mix Battleships and Carriers together). Although they have defensive capabilities against fighters and bombers, it's best to have them in a fleet so they are supported by smaller screen vessels, otherwise they're giant targets for fighter squadrons.
A perfect example of a capital ship being overwhelmed by fighters because it was left unsupported is the sinking of the Yamato. Watch Potential History here ruclips.net/video/iJiOJxwjqYI/видео.html If you are interested in a bit of the history behind it and how it was sunk.
In summary, it's like I said above, it was unsupported by carriers since the Japanese had all their carriers sunk in the battle of midway, and the Yamato was unable to fend off the fighters.
So that comment you made where fighters can play a big hand in winning a battle is based around some real life fact. Sure Star destroyers are powerful ships that can bring entire systems to their knees, but without proper support elements I could see them being overwhelmed by fighters and bombers. Especially considering the blind spot they have to their rear.
I think the starfighters were used to portray planes used during naval battles.
@@genericusername1993 Probably, and much like in real life, AA fire isn't as effective as one might think when needed to defend against air attacks from fighters/bombers.
I'm assuming to a degree thats the same in Star wars lore.
Does the highground help?
no
Lord Anubis actually it can if you watch the jedi crash episode in the clone wars you see how effective 5 munificent frigates in high altitudes can be against 3 venators below them.
Since you can turn your ship easily a 180 with out an problems. So not really.
wargearinternational in space - yes, however in strong gravity wells and in atmosphere it can be impossible without crashing commanded vessel. Then having more altitude than enemy can have some effect, especially if your guns can point downwards while enemy can't point their guns upwards
It is nice to know the basic. Great video your content is the best.
Thanks!
Advanced Capital Ship Combat ? These holocrons are really usefull for me Im becoming a better admiral :D
Capping the T
Actual Naval commanders:
Hey I've seen this one!
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (242nd try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
coming up on infra-red stop fucking LYING.You are not at the 242 try.
+Darth Cendius Not lying pal
Replicators are from Stargate.
How has he not seen your comment yet?
pegasus or asgard galaxy replicator???
Could you do more ship/fleet vs episodes soon?
When you said orbital bombardment, I got so happy!
Also, precise orbital bombardments are better known as orbital strikes. :)
Great video, keep it up!
Make this a Galactic Versus episode:
STAR WARS 2M Saber tank
vs.
HALO M820Skorpion tank
vs.
COMMAND AND CONQUER GDI Mammoth MK III
I'd love to see which of theese tanks comes out on top.
My favourite combat is ship on ship
Buttered Turtle I too share this kink
Mine is the five A-wings, 4 good pilots and one suicidal pilot Vs a SSD. And each A-WING only needs to make one run.
5 ways force users are used in battle
Badly, put in command (if incompetent), in a fighter, not at all, and brilliantly (but only in some Legends material).
"Ackbar slash." = Admiral Haratio Nelson's famous technique that defeated the French at Trafalgar. Crossing the T.
No. Nelson offered his _t_ to the enemy, and took advantage of their assumption he was an idiot to try something that would have gotten an average navy destroyed for little effect. Trafalgar is somewhat like Cannae; it's one of those stunning victories that otherwise competent commanders use as a model to destroy their own forces.
Best transforming fighter:
VF-11 thunderbolt from Macross plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the mecha tengu from command and conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber Mospeda.
The VF-25
Nice I've always preferred capship warfare to fighter warfare in Star Wars which is why most of my Star Wars RP naval characters were capship officers though some were former fighter pilots, and had fighter pilot skills in case they were needed. I prefer frigates to any other ship type in both fiction and history so If I build a fleet it tends to be frigate heavy. (For example in Star Wars Empire at War Forces of Corruption my typical Alliance capship squadron has a mix of four CR90s, Marauders and Corellian gunships, eight to twelve Nebulons-Bs and MC30Cs, 3 Assault Frigate IIs, and an MC80)
I am curious why you claim Alliance capital ships are poorly armed for anti-capship work though. CR90s have 6 turbolaser mounts, Nebulon=Bs have a dozen turbos and a dozen lasers, DP20s have a solid mix of turbos and antifighter quadlasers, and MC80s have four dozen turbolaser batteries and no anti-fighter lasers
Krogan vs Brutes [132nd ask]
Duncan McOkiner krogan all the way
You should do a video about what you'd do if your in command of a blockade or attacking a blockade, and maybe make some scenarios.
Spartans vs N7 and UNSC Marines vs System Alliance Marines
Probably Spartans, N7, Systems alliance marines then UNSC marines. Though if you included the Spectres they would be top
7:16 that combat move is called "omae wa mou shinderu"
NANI?!?!
Warhammer 40k basics of capital ship combat, please?
That would probably require about a dozen videos because every faction fights so wildly different. But I would still love to see it.
What if I put my fleet above the enemy fleet (since space is three dimensional) sideways so my ship's broadside is facing their ship's top?
Against ISD's attack from the bottom. They don't have their big turrets there, and they apparently can't see you.
What happened to you epic cinematic intro?
I actually prefer it not included to be honest...
Funny that the Rebel Alliance Sourcebook decided to attribute the simple tactic of breaking a line to Admiral Ackbar, a leader known for his brilliance, when it is both undoubtedly ancient and not well suited for the Rebellion at all. And I can't imagine a space combat scenario when capping the T would be a viable tactic at all. The sourcebook authors just ported battleship era naval tactics straight into Star Wars without taking into account the prevalence and power of fighters in the SW universe. Treating space as 2D plane is tolerable, since that's almost ubiquitous in scifi, but the existence of fighters carrying capital ship killing weaponry should mean that large ships primarily act as carriers.
“Capping the T”is actually a real naval tactic and was used very well in the Battle of Jutland during WWI by the British who forced the Germans to retreat and destroyed their surface capabilities
Also, another thing about the Akbar Slash. If you have ships in the middle of the enemy formation, they enemy will have to consider the possibility that one ship will miss its target and hit a friendly ship on the other side, especially if you are using smaller ships.
T-70 X-Wing VS E-Wing
Lieutenant Nomad E wing for the win.
Something that's never really taken into account is that no warship can have effective armour over the whole craft. Historically, 'citadels' inside the main armour protected the most vital parts. Many areas had light, if any armour. Strike craft might do a lot of damage in the opening months of a war, but better and more numerous organic AA on capital ships would lessen vulnerability and largely negate the normal roles of fighters, or bombers.
Capping the T is not a SW tactic, but rather a typical fleet tactic from the first half of XXth century
This video is great for armada players
A "Capital Ship combat explained
Warhammer 40K breakdown" would be nice.
All I need is a movie that is solely based around Fleet battles.... hopefully the Rogue Squadron series will do that...
I have a question, how common are planetary shields in the Star Wars universe?
Depends an the era. During the empire most core worlds an some military planets had them, so they were very common.
I've covered that somewhat here: ruclips.net/video/zYU-TO_TD1w/видео.html
Most major planets would have several, smaller planets would sometimes have one.
MuffinTrooper 66
It also really depends on what planet. Some planets couldn’t afford one. A place with a large population, or a place with a thriving industry, would most definitely have one.
Nar Shaddaa and Scarif had one, but it usually seems to be a Core World thing.
Chris sonofPear or if it was like mon calamari
OK eckhartsladder, what do you think of a series where there is certain situations that are made up by your audience and you have certain ships to do a certain thing that the viewer specifies. Like trying to break a blockade with very little big ships you can use.
Its called CROSSING THE T.... NOT CAPPING THE T
I would love to see another discussion on this that takes the 3D nature of both a battle field and the weapons systems themselves.
#askeck Why are the turbolasers on ships so tiny compared to their overall size in star wars? On ww2 battleships, the cannons take up a large amout of area on the ship, and on the Star Destroyer they are just these small barrels on the side of a superstructure.
You forgot to mention the Warhammer 40k presence on the Discord server. (Shutters heretically)
My favorite starwars RUclipsr haven't watched anything in weeks except your vids
Keep up the work(woul support ur paytryon) but got no money
If it was rebel combat it would be
Send one dude in a X Wing to take down the fucking Sun
Thr akbhar slash is exactly the same as the british navy’s actions at the battle of trafalgar against the spanish navy
The Ackbar slash, so the stars war equivalent of the Nelson touch
But the thing is unlike in Star Wars battleships have cannons in the rear as well as front
We need a new game similar to empire at war but the battle mechanics are made by Ekharts ladder
I've noticed that many capital ship battle tactics seem to mirror real life naval tactics of the 18th and 19th century. It's interesting.
Actually 17 to early 20th century
The should make a video game of only capital ship combat.
Grand Admiral Eck vs Grand Admiral Thrawn
Interesting. Regarding planetary shields and orbital bombardment, Thrawn really was a tactical and strategic genius. As evidenced by his used of cloaked ships positioned just inside planetary shields in order make it look like the ships outside the shield can fire right through it, which caused at least one world to surrender without a prolonged fight.
Educational material from the war college of Annexes
So in star wars, battleships are still the focus, not the carriers?
We all know the best tactic is to ram all ships into enemy ships
Recusant Class Light Destroyer vs Something
what program do you use for the thumbnails