Which Star Wars Faction has the WORST TACTICS? | Faction Compared ft Bombastic
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
- We return to factions compared with a look at which Star Wars Faction has the worst military tactics featuring my good friend Bombastic!
My video on Bombastic's channel: • Which is the WORST CLO...
Prior Collab with Bombastic
Which Star Wars Faction has the WORST SHIP:
• Which Star Wars Factio...
Which Star Wars Faction has the WORST VEHICLE:
• Which Star Wars Factio...
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Развлечения
![Standard Clone Trooper Tactics vs Standard CIS Tactics [Visualised]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DKldUbdpJww/mqdefault.jpg)
Check out the other part of this collab on Bombastic's channel -- we look t some of the worst trooper classes in Star Wars:
ruclips.net/video/bvmBz9o0ZAY/видео.html
You guys sended a Video at the same time Damm!!!
TJC For Three because that went well... I think
EckhartsLadder bombastic: “all your favorite factions the first order, republic etc” me: “the first order o no no please no 😖”
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Look T
Strongest military: Galactic Empire
Best tactics: Rebel Alliance
Quality: Galactic Republic
Quantity: CIS
Bad tactics/Incompetent leadership: First Order
Literally just 300 people: Resistance
XD the resistant is just so poor.
300 people _with guns_
@Jedi Mind Glitch, against a fleet of hundreds of Star Destroyers and Dreadnoughts...
@@aerophine and they still fookin won
@@jedimindglitch89 So depressing. :/
Remember when the Resistance used slow moving, easily damaged bombers to try and blow up a dread naught when Y-wings are a thing? I remember that
Yes, Y-Wings are a thing... that the the Resistance didn't have any of. Can't use something you don't have.
And... Like.... Why don't just buy it in the first place, since Y-wings are definitely cheaper than some large slow moving bombers
Sad part is you could actually make the bombers work for that situation, just don’t do the stupid thing of having them right there at the freaking front for everyone to see. Have them blindside the ship from another direction while Poe was flying around, heck his smart talk with the first order officer worked as a weird distraction a bit. If done right, they could’ve been able to save most of those bombers. Also another dumb idea, not launching escape pods right then and there and just doing it when there’s only one ship left, brilliant move holdo.
You kidding me? a squadron of y-wings cant destroy a single ISD, you expect a single one to destroy an entire dreadnought? Thats absurd. Not that their existing bombers were much better, but a y-wing assault would have been suicide.
Y-wings would most certainly not have worked on the dreadnought
I think the CIS deserve credit for having the sense to give their fighters target-tracking missiles, something every military on Earth has been using for decades. Dogfighting should be totally obsolete in the Star Wars universe.
Dogfighting in Star Wars was inspired by aircraft and tactics used in World War Two. It doesn't compete with the aircraft and tactics of our time, much less the tens of thousands of years in the future where Star Wars takes place. I do completely agree with you though.
Edit: I phrased "much less the tens of thousands of years in the future where Star Wars takes place" very poorly. What I meant was the technology differences between us and them. I apologise to anyone who was confused!
Dogfighting is still a thing, granted it’s incredibly rare.
Well, in a sci-fi universe I could say even manned combat is obsolete. If not droids and AI, but remote drones or such.. would be soulless and boring as a story and world intended to be entertaining.
Mimu Mi Cat fights? I’ve never heard of that.
Sensor jamming, ECM and electronic warfare are commonplace in the Galaxy Far Far Away
When the Rebels arrived at Endor, they couldn't even tell if the DS2's shield was up
How is a self-guided missile going to function under those conditions?
Besides the Battle on Starkiller Base the Resistance always seemed to loose without any other help.
the Battle on Starkiller Base ONLY succeeded because they bullshitted their way past the Nothing less than Hyperspace can get through shield,turned the shield off then SEVERELY damaged the vent allowing Poe to finish it off.....they literally have ZERO wins without any outside help
Well the resistance was a small faction with not a lot of great commanders leading them.
I definitely agree with you, but I think that is supposed to be the point. As much as the Rebellion struggled in the Galactic Civil War, they at least had some decent support because people saw the Galactic Empire was bad by that point and wanted to overthrow them. With the Resistance, no one believed that the First Order was a real threat prior to Starkiller destroying the Hosnian System. Their whole point wasn’t to defeat the First Order on their own, but to get proof that the First Order were more than just nostalgic Empire loyalists that would get the New Republic and the rest of the galaxy motivated to stop them. Most people thought the Resistance were either a joke or just warmongers who missed the days of the Alliance. The Resistance always knew they could never overthrow the First Order on their own. They simply sought to motivate the rest of the galaxy to see it and come together to defeat them
It's called plot armour
The resistance was basically one rebel cell they didn’t get the chance to grow large enough to actually fight the first order before they attacked.
FACTIONS COMPARED IS BACK HUZZAH!
Amazing!!!
*lets celebrate!*
Hell yeah!!!
HUZZAH!!!
Too bad i-card polls are gone.
Star wars factions in a nutshell:
Republic: "Come on!!! Get some! Get some! Get some!"
CIS: "We outnumber them 3 to 1, but it won't matter..."
Rebellion: "Hokey technologies and numerous troopers are no match for an accurate blaster"
Empire: "We are altering the deal. Pray we don't alter it any further"
First Order: "Let's make everything bigger that'll do the trick"
Resistance: "Not to worry we're only running half a rebellion"
Yes the first order is accurate but they did improve many things
Thrawn:(laughs) you are all beneath me
First Order Doctrine : Twice the size of everything (ships, walkers, dreadnought, planet killing super weapon, etc) = twice the size of empire's mistakes.
@@paakdisayaniyom twice the size, double the fall
Make weapons ten times bigger then shoot them at the wrong targets... Fire on the base!
The part we didn't get to hear: But sir sensors report it's nearly empty and the transports are almost full, shouldn't we take those out first? It's gonna take us a few minutes to recharge and who knows what could happen in that time.
Back to our perspective: Sir resistance bombers approaching. Of course they are!
The Battle of Coruscant is interesting in the Revenge of the Sith novelization. The raid is a master stroke, kidnapping Palpatine, terrifying the population on the Republic's capital world and everything is executed perfectly. Grievious is satisfied and wishes to leave, Sidious orders demand that they stay, and let Skywalker and Kenobi get aboard and rescue the chancellor.
It isn't a matter of poor tactics, it is a case of Sidious screwing over the separatists again.
You have a point.
Well of course palpatine demand to stay after giving grievious his secret hyperlane route dude need to do another theatric show to his audience
Weird hearing Andrew say “it’s Andrew” without the weird Lando laugh
ikr
True
Ye
Yeah that’s why it took me a bit to realize it’s THE Andrew
Yeah
I am cutting the Republic a bit of slack as it was their first battle. A complete lack of experience explains a lot, something none of the other factions here can claim.
The first real opportunity to learn that there is a vast chasm between simulators and reality. Also, it's what you get when you make peacekeepers and diplomats into generals just because they have glowing swords.
the CIS still have a better trump card. the jedi have been studying war and combat for thousands of years, while the clones individually had 10 years of hard training and military training. there is no reason that they would have though charging across open ground was a good idea, especially not in bunched up groups. no excuse for that level of incompetancy.
the CIS atleast have the excuse that their ruler wanted a certain outcome from the battle, something the republic has no excuse for.
@@matthiuskoenig3378 While they have been studying war and combat for thousands of years you also forget there had been 1000 years of peace *and* that the Republic had demilitarized, and removed the Jedi from the military in general. The Jedi who knows how war works is a very rare sort, as only Yoda is even close to the age required to have had actual battlefield experience. The clones... well, they were programmed to obey without question. Your Jedi says "charge across no man's land under the blaster fire of a billion droids" you get up and you charge, if you're a clone.
the Cis can make that same claim since you know they where the same faction up until just a bit before this battle
The first battle of Geonosis was the opening salvo of the war. Neither side was really experienced. The battle of Corrasont was the last major battle of the war, everyone had plenty of experience by that point.
The Empire's mistakes at Hoth were somewhat offset by capable commanders such as Veers and the heavy losses inflicted on the Rebellion. To put things in perspective: a few easily replaceable AT-ATs lost are nothing compared to the loss of Echo base and most of the ground forces and transports, which the Rebellion couldn't afford to replace.
I agree Hoth was some failures for sure but the battle was not part of it. The Rebellion is prepared to move fast and exucuted their retreat with that in mind, were moving to retreat before even the empire showed up. Why they had no ties on the ground not sure might have to do with they wanted to keep as much in space to catch them, and if the fleet was anymore back from the plant they would not wave been in range before the hyperspace jump they jump close to where the there blockade is. Also in the Movies have no interdictous ships Cant just add a factor that was added later after they were made.
as eck said, yeah they won but they would have won to a much larger degree with semi-competent tactics
@@129das the thing is that tie fighters couldn't come into the battle because of the shield, they came in after, same reason they didn't deploy hover tanks, shields stop them
"I don't really want to talk about the Rescue Effort because I think they did about as well as they could have there."
200+ Jedi dead, all to save... two, and a civillian.
Yeah, sure, that checks out.
As long as Kit Fisto was rescued it was an absolut win
@@palekoc8697 Aayla Secura survived, that's all I needed.
It was about more than rescuing. They were to trying to stop a rebellion.
They saved anakin, and he is the only reason we got to know Ahsoka😁
That "civilian" was a republic senator.
The Republic's Napoleonic-style line infantry engagement with the CIS was visually stunning, as was the red/white assault formation on Crait. A lot of the time, it's style over practicality.
i never understood why the GAR would engage in conventional warfare with a near-infinite army of droids
@@simpleclonetrooper2740 Because it looks cool?
Star Wars isn't meant to be realistic. It's meant to be pulpy space fantasy. And that's absolutely fine.
SimpleCloneTrooper Who knows? No wonder the CIS was gonna win :(
@@jaimem9828 Nah it was anyone's game at the time.
@@simpleclonetrooper2740 Because they have to. They had to repel Separatist attacks to keep them gaining ground and it wasn't all conventional war.
The First Order has the worst tactics I have ever heard of in the Star Wars universe. They had an opportunity to cut off and destroy the Resistance and they didn't take it. I don't hate Rian Johnson, but the fact that he made the First Order beyond stupid bothers me.
Is it really surprising coming from Rian Johnson? He's said he's not that interested in world building and lore. *JuSt tHe chAracTEr dRaMa and ThE stOrY.* _Even though Star Wars wasn't just about the story._
He wasn't the right director for this universe.
Oh boy I hated a lot about their leadership we can blame Rian Johnson manipulating them like palpatine did, except Rian Johnson is an idiot
This is all about Disney trying to draw the movies out. Neither side could get a decisive victory, because Disney was trying to milk the cash cow.
@@UnknownUser-gd3ls The films were always about characters, story, and spectacle over lore and military tactics. Just look at Hoth, AT-ATs make no sense practically but are very cinematic. I mean, hell, the Empire lost to a battle with teddy bears with sticks and rocks.
You do realize there was orbital shields on crait right?
If Solo was any indication, the Empire's strategy in large ground battles was basically The First Day Of The Somme, which was....not great historically.
Well... that was the Empire's strategy in the Disney canon.
Yet another way Legends canon is so much better.
The somme was bloodshed.
@@grantjohnson5785 legends canon is also worse in so so so many ways. They are mixing both now which I think is best
*Sees EckhartsLadder notification *happy noises *sees it’s a factions compared video *loses mind, foams at the mouth, faints
Foaming Mouth Guy? What are you doing here? You're supposed to be on Kyoshi Island.
It says a lot that all the mistakes have good reasons behind them, jedi are inexperienced, that one imperial thought surprise was better, the cis was manipulated etc. But then the battle of krait was completely pointless for almost no reason, almost as if the director just wanted an excuse to have bigger atat walkers
Which is mad because they're ridiculous.
How was it pointless? You sound a lot like a hypocrite
I once heard a theory that Admiral Ozzel was a rebel spy and thats why at first he told his colleagues that he doubts the rebels were on Hoth, and then he could have purposely come out of hyperspace too close to the planet in order to have the rebels notice the imperials arrival
@@deadshot5007 the other films have at least some logical or stated narrative justification to why the battle happens the way it does. On Hoth the shields prevent obliterating the base from orbit (and most likely prevent fighter/bomber support as well). On geonosis the jedi have never fought an actual pitched battle before (or in at least thousands of years) and the clones are following their orders unquestioningly, and they want to rescue their people so no orbital bombardment. There's no explanation given for why the first order doesn't just obliterate the Crait base from orbit, or why they actually need walkers, or why they don't just use bombers to blast open the door or a side of the mountain instead of the big slow laser cannon thing
The funniest thing is that Krait was FAR from the worst tactical decision of the First Order(/Final Order) in the sequel trilogy
Of course the separatist, we are unlimited numbers and we march with the music its so epic with cinematic welcome to downtown coolsville. Clones
Quick, grab one of their DC-15's while they're gobsmacked!
İts too heavy
Both sides weren’t at their best in the clone wars
Hell yeah Roger Roger
But neither side had wideness
Best tactic: *RUSH 🅱️*
Rush Geonosis
Rush france i mean blitzkrieg
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In Star War every faction literally stands while shooting each other without cover. That's literally 19th century Napoleonic era tactics .
You haven't watched much "Clone Wars", have you? Anakin and Rex have their troops take cover almost all the time, except when they're ordered not to (like that one idiot / insane Jedi that replaced Anakin for a time until Rex and the clones mutinied...)
@@grantjohnson5785 Oh yeah, Pong Krell was that asshole's name
They do, at least in the shows
@@anonymus5637 pong krell used the clone like they were battle droids
@@grantjohnson5785 I don't know, even in TCW time after time you see clones assaulting the enemy while standing in the open. Yeah, there's times when they take cover - but it seems to be more the exception than the rule.
Here's my thoughts. First remember that during all of these battles, one side has plot armor that keeps them from being wiped out, and they supposed to look impressive on camera rather than make military sense.
The CIS's true goals at Coruscant (and I mean what Palpatine wanted) was to terrify the people of Coruscant with the war being right on their doorstep, and to force a showdown between Anakin and Dooku in hopes of pushing Anakin to the dark side and disposing of Dooku.
The Republic at Geonosis shows that the Jedi, despite their fighting ability, are not truly cut out as military commanders and Palaptine did not want the war to end so quickly. He needed time to thin out the Jedi ranks, and to enact laws that would turn the Republic into a centralized dictatorship.
The Empire at Hoth shows the Alliance had plot armor to keep them from being wiped out, the Interdictor cruiser hadn't been thought up in 1980 and that if you compare the Imperial military to a toolbox, the overwhelming number of tools are hammers (i.e. the Star Destroyers)
The First Order at Krait was led by an mentally and emotionally unstable Kylo Ren and the entire script was written by idiots.
crait*
Last Time I was this early Darth maul was in one piece
Badum Tsh!
Zach 1993 thanks for the appreciation lol
Ready to feel old? You haven’t been early since 1999
13:40 losing on Hoth was all Admiral Ozzel's fault. He is as clumsy as he is stupid!
The CIS were more or less able to use bad strategies since they could easily replace soldiers with hardly any time needed to train and grow their Troops compared to the other factions
With regards to Hoth, I have been under the impression that the Rebels did not have full planetary shield, but that could protect a range around their base. Later star was movies and TV series would show that some shield systems would allow for slower moving objects to penetrate shields. In this case, it would make sense to drop AT-ATs outside the shield range, and then allow them to traverse through the shields. It would be implied that most fighters users by the Empire were not intended or capable of moving slow enough to travel through the shield.
Including the possibility that the Rebel shield generator could not be penetrated by slower moving vehicles, based on the maps displayed, it could be suggested that there was several possible paths that could be traversed that were unprotected by Rebel Shields. In this case it seems likely TIE fighter craft may have attempted to traverse this path as well but may have found it extremely difficult to impossible to maneuver.
TIEs just can't pass through shields nor can any other starfighter. If it does, it comes out badly damaged and without any power it would drop like a lead weight.
If that the case all but one reason that the movie said is debunked.
4:20
You can bomb the sh- mostly automated transports and facilities...
It definitely is the jedi way
We got to keep it family friendly here
Not when you need to figure who the enemy is. Those factories have vital intel
Almost everyone in sci-fi basically ignores fire support.
No one mentions the king of the battlefield
*artillery*
And definitely the forgotten, Combat Engineers
Not in the Clone Wars novels... if you haven't yet read the Republic Commando books, you need to!
@@grantjohnson5785 they include it, but nowhere near the rate real life militaries use it.
@@ethanworner864 True.
I stand by my position from previous Ecks videos about Geonosis that orbital bombardment/blockade would have been a lot less useful than he thinks. Geonosis's population centers and industrial sites are mostly underground, Acclamators aren't built for precision orbital bombardment, there are friendlies on the ground and, most importantly, a siege actually plays to the CIS's strengths - not only can the factories continue to produce weapons and droids, but the CIS can gather ships from their many other locations and attack the Republic forces to try and break the siege, possibly trapping the clone army on the Acclamator transports. A reckless blitzkrieg to overwhelm the Geonosis facilities quickly was probably the right move (or at least an understandable one). And they had to do all of this with an army and navy that the commanders had never used before and were not trained to use.
At Coruscant the CIS might have been trying to hold Coruscant hostage, but never really got the chance because Republic reinforcements kept coming in. They were probably also prioritizing Republic ships (valuable military assets that can be sent against CIS holdings in the Outer Rim) over civilian casualties.
At Hoth, I always assumed that fighters couldn't get through the shield either (the Rebels could open up holes for their fighters, of course), so the Empire would have to land TIEs and push them through the shield to get air support (still probably worth it). Interdictors might not have been that useful, since the fleet seemed to be so spread out over space, and the blockade couldn't get close to the planet without being ion cannon'd out of the sky.
For Crait, unless I am misremembering, I believe a Resistance character mentions that they threw up their bases old Hoth-like shield. So orbital bombardment wasn't really an option. Their biggest mistake was a failure to push forward into the base after the door was blown open, which the tank-proof man standing in front of the hole had something to do with. It's understandable that their doctrine doesn't have a response to that.
For the Battle of Hoth, I believe that the Interdictor Cruiser was not introduced until 1987 by West End Games for the Star Wars RPG, so it's kinda hard to suggest that it should have been used to hunt Rebels, when it didn't exist yet in real life even though it may have existed in universe.
I thought it was first introduced by Timothy Zahn in his original Thrawn trilogy in the early 90s?
Can we start Season 3 ?
If this does well, yes
@@EckhartsLadder ok
@@EckhartsLadder looks like it has
The Jedi tried to fight a war get keep their "peacekeeper" role at Geonosis. It was a rotalfoat screw. But the Resistance was the WORST. How the neck did they even survive?
Well you see, their opponents were the 1st Order.
Plot armor
at Crait they survived because Kylo was focused on Luke allowing them to escape and in T.R.O.S blah blah bullshit pseudoscience the Final Order fleet had no shields and ofcourse BULLSHIT PLOT ARMOUR! seriously Palpatine unleashes the biggest force lightning storm in history but only temporarily disables the Resistances ships
THE META In legends, that same type of Force Storm tore through a New Republic fleet, completely destroying the ships leaving nothing but a field of shattered hulls and what remained of the bodies of the crewmen for those ships.
caden Macdonald said force storm also destroyed the eclipse 1. One of the most powerful dreadnoughts in legends yet it’s cannon counterpart couldn’t destroy a single star-fighter
I think what happened at Hoth was that Ozzels death really confused/disoriented the Imperial Fleet.
Vader and Veers were both focused on the ground battle and Piett likely had a hard time suddenly and quickly adapting from commanding one ship to a entire fleet, which was already in a bad position due to Ozzel.
Still, you’d think the individual Star Destroyer captains would take a little initiative and do things like deploy fighters.
According to various lore including the movies (Phantom Menace is one such) planetary or umbrella shields protect against repulser tech and impacts but walkers or people on foot have a natural grounding ability that lets them walk slowly through the shield. (hence the battle droids struggling through the shields in Phantom Menace)
Second, Tie fighters suck in atmosphere according to all the lore I read. The exception was the Tie SK-x1 which was considered experimental and most if not all were lost at Scarif. The fighters could have been outside the shield, but would have been in orbits waiting for a chance to pounce.
Third, according to Revenge of the Sith as well as other books, the separatist fleet was damaged and trapped at the battle of Corusant. The flagship's hyperdrive was damaged according to the tech manual. Most likely that was just a cover to allow Anakin time to get there and to board. The battle looked cool though.
I agree though, Death Squadron should have had Interdictors. The battle of Genoesis was off, as was Crait.
In Legends after the shield on Hoth went down, TIEs went down to the planet to assault the remaining transports.
Interdictors were rare at the time of The Battle of Hoth took place and they were mostly used as customs enforcement vessels. Also Geonsis makes sense lore wise.
I hate it that the sw authors make the Empire so fucking stupid. Why the hell dont they have at least one single atmosphere fighter??! What the hell is that??
@@abraham2172 They did have them in Rogue One.
Been a whole since on of these
A whole what?
@@cameronwallace8265 A whole since. C'mon, man!
It really has been a whole since.
I about had a stroke reading this
OCD
*While
Everybody knows that obi wan has the greatest tactics
He has the High Ground
General grievous has his collection tho
“Shields are up, so they can’t hit us from orbit.” -Poe Dameron
But then the TIE’s shouldn’t have passed through the shield
@@emberfist8347 in tpm the droids are able to go through the shields but their blasts aren’t able to
@@thomsenbolton7627 however in ROTJ the rebels could not get to the death star while the shield was up. In the novel it is stated that a fighter collided with the shield
@@inquisitortano9016 well the resistance was at a pretty crappy base so I’m sure their shield wasn’t state of the art tech.
@@thomsenbolton7627 the base is an old rebel base. in ESB (where the rebels are pretty badly off) their shield is only capable of protecting a small area (their base). however that still prevented both bombardments and fast moving objects. that is why the walkers had to land so far away.
the walkers on crait were much closer and there were Ties in the sky, so it's safe to assume the shield was weaker. and I personally don't think that a weaker version of the hoth shield could withstand a sustained bombardment
then again; shields have always been wonky in star wars
The first order tactics is complete garbage, at Crait they put their walkers like 7km away instead of right at their door which gave it time to close. Also why didn’t they just bombard the hell out of them
Because in the movie they say that the shields are up giving the first order no choice but to invade from the ground.
Mario Badia thanks!
To be completely fair, I’m guessing they want to play it a bit safe. I imagine landing near an occupied fort could be quite dangerous. Don’t wanna lose an AT-M6 by having it’s transport shot down. At least that’s what I’m thinking.
Sharky McSnarkface especially after the loss of the supremacy and the entire fleet
@@mariobadia4553 The shields should have stopped the TIE's then.
The series is back
*YES YES YES YES YES YES in KSI*
You know your fan base is dedicated when there’s hundreds of views within five minutes
Simps
Examining just one battle does not determine which faction is better or worse
Rex: Watch both videos. Good soldiers follow orders
PLEASE DO MORE FACTIONS COMPARED!!!! AND MORE WHAT IF'S
The first order and the “resistance” have crap tactics
Rogue One is the Star Wars movie displaying the best tactics (land based tactics, not space based). The Disney trilogy probably does display the worst tactics as you said, but as much as I love the Clone Wars, the clones display AWFUL tactics a lot of the time. How many times have we seen Rex and company just standing there in the open firing at oncoming droids. Like why are you fighting in a line? You don’t need to be right next to each to communicate take cover! You see this a lot with clones in the movies, but I think the Clone Wars is particularly egregious (still love it though).
No real land tactics to speak of for a New Hope. The battle of Hoth is pretty good in my book, I only question the equipment used not how they used them. The Battle of Endor is kind gimmicky to me, but the Ewoks using guerrilla tactics makes the tactics displayed okay in my book.
Bad story telling.
Shawn Moses I figured that a lot of clones died because of poor leadership the Jedi were never prepared to lead and command armies the clones were just given to them “freely” I love the conspiracies and all that
Every Star Wars faction does. The republic has some of the most abysmal tactics I’ve ever seen, especially on geonosis. The empire is not much better.
Only tactic they have is, "run to lose another day," and, "blast them!"
10:11 - You answer your own criticism with your previous statement at 10:08.
“Palpatine was manipulating the war.”
He had the CIS sit in oribit, he wanted a big dramatic battle for all to see. Either way he was a high priority target for rescue, either way he won, and he might even walk away with Anakin as his apprentice. It’s also why they didn’t bombard Coruscant, because Palpatine wasn’t about to bomb his capital.
In legends at least a few separatist ships fell in orbit and caused civilian deaths
And presumably he didn't let the CIS take a shot at bombarding the Jedi Temple because he wants to loot it for himself once the Jedi are dead. Plus, if significant damage had been inflicted, it might've resulted in the younglings being scattered to other temples all over the galaxy and render them not as easy to quickly wipe out once Order 66 is triggered.
The problem with the Resistance and First Order is that one can't watch those conflicts without being pulled out of the movie. Examining the Battle of Crait inevitably becomes an exercise in cross-referencing the Battle of Hoth and _The Empire Strikes Back_ in general. None of the battles from that trilogy are self-contained: X-Wings descend upon a huge planet-killing base to destroy it before the superweapon fires, a squadron of small speeders attempt to protect a base from an approaching line of heavily-armored walkers, or a massive Rebel fleet clashes against a force of star destroyers while our heroic Jedi confronts the Emperor in his throne room.
Disney: "We can't use the novels, we need the freedom to write something original!"
Also Disney: "Copy-paste Episodes 4, 5, and 6, add some leftist indoctrination, call it a day."
To be fair though you aren’t supposed to examine everything in great detail. Movies are supposed to just be fun things to watch. Even the best movies can fall apart under close examination.
For the battle of Geonosis, the assault was executed ultimately by a group of Jedi that not only lacked real war experience but were puppets in the hands of the Dark Lord of the Sith. Rather than rely on the force, they launched an attack on a system that did nothing to provoke them. They could have negotiated for Obi-wan's release and that of Anakin and Padme. Really the jedi council subtly gave in to the dark side of the force because they succumbed to fear and this is why Palpatine was able to control and ultimately overthrow them.
Without watching it (because right now I dont have time), I will say the First Order is the worst one. Imagine being so overpowered, fighting the poor version of the rebel alliance, and still find a way to be defeated
Haha yes main flagship getring kamikazed goes shhooo
rlly like this style of video, its rlly cool seeing collars between two channels like this
In regards to the First Order's tactics, if you rewatch The Last Jedi, listen to the scene just after Finn and Rose crash-land on Crait. As the Resistance are firing up the old Rebel equipment, Poe says "shields are up, so they can't hit us from orbit". They did indeed force the First Order into staging a ground assault.
The battle at Crait can pretty much be seen as a continuation of the battle that started at the rebel planet at the start of TLJ. The First Order's tactics are honestly a mess the whole time, giving the ressistance many opportunities to escape. Even the limitations of the battle of crait itself asre because the first order decided on protracted space chase that they could have won quickly.
Nebula vs. Pelleaon
Resurgent vs. MC 85
Bellator vs. Resurgent
Starhawk vs. Nebula
Nebula+Endurance vs. Resurgent
Who would win? #StarshipVersus #AskEck
Imo it would be:
1: Pellaeon
2: Resurgent
3: Bellator
4: Nebula
5: Nebula + Endurance
Yooo I love that you did a combined video this is so cool!
I honestly hav enot watched anything, from ECk for weeks, but this series brought me back like a Fly.
I hope you enjoy doing these, so tha I may continue enjoying them.
I would say the First Order got off easy here, since they didn't talk about the Supremacy chase. The ship is almost forty times larger than an ISD, and yet they decide to deploy a whole... three TIE fighters to aid them. Three TIE fighters from a ship that could hold hundreds of thousands of them, and which would have ended the chase in a matter of minutes. smh.
Darh Vader himself royally f*cked up the battle of Hoth. Had he just stayed on the goddamn ship, Death Squadron could have just bombarded the Rebel base into ash as soon as the shield went down, preventing any escape, and he could have surveyed the wreckage personally. Since he arrived personally, and a bombardment was thus not feasible, there was then no reason to destroy the shield generator, which was keeping the rebels from fleeing just as much as it was keeping the Imperials from invading.
and possibly kill luke, who was more important to him than the entire rebellion?
That is very strongly against his actual motives for attacking hoth. Sure, he could have killed more rebels. but thats not nearly as important as turning luke and hopefully gaining control of the empire with them as his apprentice, now is it?
Also thats innacurate about the shield. the rebels can deactivate the shield momentarily to leave or fire ion cannon shots. It is not in any way a hindrance to their efforts.
@@lenkagamine4145 Sure, they can deactivate it momentarily, but it would still be a lot smarter for the Imperial forces to capture the shield generator - and force it to stay up - than to destroy it. The only reasons to destroy it are to either allow orbital bombardment or to land many more troops - neither of which they did.
Also, the fact that Luke was important to Vader doesn't make the Battle of Hoth any less of a strategic blunder to the Empire, which should have been much more concerned with destroying the Rebellion and its leaderships - and Vader still didn't capture Luke, despite the presence of Death Squadron and few obstacles.
Something small about the Battle of Hoth (tiny spoilers for the book Lost Stars)
In the book Lost Stars, which I’m reading currently, TIE fighters are present at the battle, however they do appear only after the transports have already evacuated. But TIE fighters were there to clean up any small fighters departing after the main rebel forces, mainly those of Snowspeeder pilots who returned to the base in order to leave in their fighters. It was still a shambles but they did show up.
Glad factions compared is back.
I really liked this video and Bombastic's part in it.
This in my opinion is one of the best videos on the channel.
Good to see the Factions Compared back, hope to see the First Order included more.
The Resistance and First Order tactics are the worst.
The resistance had a grape and a hyperdrive so they obviously won
@@samthemusicman2306 yeah *facepalm*
Both of my favorite star wars channels collaborating is a dream come true
It should also be noted that the CIS was planning several moves ahead. The outer rim sieges were initiated by the CIS to lure the majority of the Republic's fleets as far away from coruscant as possible, with the hope of finishing off what remained quickly and holding the Senate at gun point to sign a treaty before the fleets in the outer rim could return.
Didn't they say they had a planetary shield at Crait?
Poe literally says in the movie that the shields are up so they can't hit us from orbit
I don't remember that line, but all Crait strategy is based in the Resistance going to a heavily shielded base, so yes, I don't think any orbital bombing could tear appart that stronghold
Rose says it as the resistance is preparing. The first order didnt deserve to be on top of the list
@@ilikepigeons6101 Yeah and even if they didn't have planetary shields it's not like the FIrst Order fleet is going anywhere.
Except the shield would have stopped the TIE Fighters too.
Dissapointed when andrew said "hey everyone its andrew" there was no lando laughing....i hoped that whenever he introduced himself that happened in real life
To be fair, the Empire wasn't entirely certain of what to expect at Hoth. Conflicting intelligence reports, a planet that is notorious for sudden blizzards and bad terrain. It is actually a wonder that the Empire did as well as it did at Hoth, but it also makes me think that there might have been a rebel planet within the Empire, feeding false information to those who were making the various battle plans, including the mistake of coming out of FLT too close to the planet, which even Vader states was a very clear mistake.
Been waiting for one these videos!
You got to remember though that the Battle of Geonosis is the first massive battle in thousands of years so no one really had any idea how to wage a war so I think it might be a little unfair to judge of the Republics tactics on the first tactical battle in thousands of years.
Worst tactics would be The Republic no doubt about it. Although the clones looked cool, most of the time they would rush droids and stand out in the open and eventually get killed.
For the Separatist Alliance!
Roger roger
I can't lie to you about your chances... but you have my sympathies.
My two favorite star wars yourubers together. amazing, just perfect
I also feel that if the battle of Geonosis was not being manipulated by Dooku and Sidious the Republic would’ve be completely and decisively crushed, seeing how terribly out numbered they were, complemented with the Jedi’s awful field tactics.
The reason they didn’t orbitally bombard Geonosis was because the Venator and acclamator were not finished yet and not fitted with most of its weaponry
And Geonosis was mostly underground catacombs
Glad to see clips of Republic Commando interspersed throughout the video, one of my favorite games of all time! Currently replaying it in my spare time!
I really like that the star wars youtubers are working together and act like they want to help eachather. Not to get as manny vieuws on their own vids. Really good stuff.
The difference between Crait and Hoth is that
a) The Rebels had enough transports and fighters to get most of their personnel and equipment out, while the Resistance had NOTHING. Starving them out when you still have 3-5 star destroyers is pretty easy when they have nothing to leave with, so why would you attack, risking equipment and manpower?
b) Speaking of nothing, they somehow got the Millenium Falcon there completely undetected while, as mentioned before, 3-5 star destroyers were RIGHT THERE in orbit. Maybe Rey came out of hyperspace on the other side of the planet and just went under radar to get to the base, while Luke distracted the First Order. Except those ships are still fully crewed, I guess they were all just partying while the bosses were gone or something.
c) When you're the Resistance, why the hell would you set up a defense network with fully exposed and packed trenches? The saltskippers are already out there trying to stop the weapon, why put hundreds of guys out there to just get mowed down as well? Also, if you have enough time to prepare a defence with trenches and turrets and stuff, why not just put them on top of the base or somewhere that they aren't fully exposed? At Hoth the Rebels were buying time for their personnel to escape, while they say in TLJ that this is basically their last shot, and we see that there are like 6 survivors out of the 200-300 resistance members who landed there. At that point, when you're trying to last as long as possible, play smart. (They also couldn't have just been refueling their ships or something, Or else why are they going into a hangar with a single entrance and exit)
The First Order failed miserably in their objective of... destroying the Resistance? Killing the last Jedi? idk, but the Resistance's tactic of sitting ducks was even worse. Somehow they got it all back though before Palpatine somehow returned
Oh how I’ve missed factions compared.
A very extremely great video as always EckhartsLadder.
I'm stuck in an endless loop going back and forth through videos
Alright. Imagine if the CIS had replaced all B1’s instead with commando droids. I refuse to believe (because they often use the same weapons, from what I believe) that the cost to build a commando droid is more than four times expensive than a B1 is. Considering how effective the commando droids are in the clone wars it’s safe to say that they would be far more effective than the B1 battle droid was. In one instance we see a group of commando’s almost completely wipe out a ship of clones you would need atleast 10x as many battle droids to achieve this. If you could get rid of the complete deficiency of the CIS ground force. With them having superior attributes in other areas of the navy for example the cheap and disposable droid fighters and buzz droids I believe that the CIS would have been able to mop the floor with the republic if they had made this one simple change. On top of that the commando droids are far smarter and more individualised than B1’s leading to better strategy overall. Thanks for reading this and feel free to add to this or correct me whenever :)
it depends the clone wars is inconsistant. in one episode a single squad of clones takes out commando droids that outnumber them.
in another episode a small number B1s wipe out a larger number of clones and force more to fall back, with very low casualties. the clone wars is far too inconsitiant to use as a base. sometimes B1s can't hit anything sometimes they are snipers, likewise commando droids are snipers other times they are just as bad as the B1s.
i would rather have B1s, they fold up better, and in real life weight of fire is more important that accuracy so even if the B1 is less accurate than BXs haveing just 2 B1s is more effective in battle, and B1s and BX droids canonically have the same chassis (the BX just has more armor) meaning the B1 is actually faster. cannonically B1s have greater accuracy than modern soldiers and are cheap as chips, and it takes twice as many shots to kill 2 B1s than 1 BX. in the movies B1s use cover and fire and maneuver tactics so the only advantage BX droids have in field battles is accuracy. armour? they still die to blaster fire, pointless. stealth? in mechanised warfare (which is needed in field battles) its pointless to have stealth infantry when you have noisy tanks and artillery. stealth is useful for commando raids but regular fighting it is pointless.
canonically the 2 things that make B1s bad compared to clones is accuracy and creativity, the latter being more important and something BX droids lack as well.
The main problem with the CIS was that they were following the orders of Dooku, who followed Palpatine's orders. Although Dooku genuinely believed that the Sith plan was for the CIS to win the war, so I don't know how much weight this excuse holds.
@@chasm671 Dooku's plan wasnt the CIS to win the war, it was the CIS to lose and dooku being 'redeemed' or something by Sidious, turning against the CIS once their 'evil' was revealed.
Palpatine was controlling the Clone Wars. Dooku set up the CIS to lose.
I think the republic had a rough start tactics wise but I think think they redeemed themselves later on.
As for the battle of corusant, the planets have several layers of shields that prevents bombardments. Griveous did send down vast numbers of droids to cause further terror, but bombardments were impossible. He was also instructed to stay in system for as long as possible. Remember, this was part of Sidious plan to bring Anakin to the Dark Side.
Love these kinds of videos! Do more please
To be fair the empire always failed in the end. They lost to a token force at Yavin and Endor and chose the worst possible approach at Hoth. They had an Executor and a fleet of Star Destroyers. Not to mention Palpatine had the biggest and best equipped ship in the galaxy but lost it due to an astromech droid.
If I’m going to be honest the cis is the best faction it has the best navy and has straight up over powering numbers. And on top of that it has been statistically proven that the cis would have won the clone wars, because the clone army makes troops way to slowly and the cis makes hundreds of thousands a day due to all of the factories
This. While the republic has a lot of "goodstuff" weapons, ships and vehicles, the CIS is extremely specialized and I believe this is why their army was superior.
Oh I almost forgot the cis had a mini super weapon in the malevolence so yeah
@@verified_turbo3487 I'd actually argue the Malevolence was a mistake. The ship, while formidable in standalone fights against small fleets, was clearly undergarrisoned and has systematic flaws not compatible with the most core strategic designs the confederacy has by default. The ship's ion canon would rip through friends and foes alike, and considering the swarming tactics the CIS used in starfighters, that doesn't only seem idiotic, but very dangerous to its own compliment force.
Furthermore, the ship is humungously large. Too large considering how many vulture droids were inside it. The rest of the CIS navy is very smartly designed as it uses the droid constant of it forces as a pro, building very skeletal ships, difficult to board. The only ships with an actual sizable interior were dedicated carriers. That makes sense, since the ships are mostly automated and droids don't need to breathe or have an atmosphere altogether.
Which begs the question: why the hell did the malevolence, a crearly droid only controlled ship, have such atmosphere when the only living beings who should be aboard it would be on the main bridge?
When a ship is so big you can infiltrate it it shows how badly designed it is.
I'd love to see a spinoff where some of the separatist leadership survived (maybe even Dooku) and were able to reactivate the battle Droid army and fought against the Empire
These are my second favorite video types after battle breakdowns.
Finally Eck gives the CIS some credit! Great video
Considering he's a republic fanboy, we gotta praise him for this.
Out of universe explanations:
-Geonosis: George wanted a f*cking cool ground fight... in a situation that is not Hoth. Seriously, why not just put in a planetary shield?
-Hoth: Interdictors didn't exist yet.
-Coruscant: George wanted a f*cking cool lightsaber fight.
-Crait: Rian is a hack and just copy pasted Hoth without understanding the logic of the Hoth invasion.
The interdictors already existed before Scarif. We saw them in Rebels.
uh Star Wars Rebels had Interdictors and it was before A New Hope
@@TheMeta141 they didnt exist irl you idiot
Sequels are a hack. Change my mind
A hack to be sure! He tried, he failed and will be financially executed by Disney's execs in due time.
Republic: forgot orbital bombardment and forgot to blockade Geonosis
Empire: forgot they had Base Delta Zero at their disposal (and since they blew up Alderaan I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have had qualms about destroying a desolate rock as Hoth)
CIS: they should have attacked Kamino instead of Coruscant. With the GAR spread all across the galaxy losing the cloning facilities would have dealt a major blow to the Republic, which at that point would have had to win with the forces they had.
First Order: to imagine that this is what replaced the Thrawn campaign is a mockery. Even a teen with some gameplay experience could have led the FO more intelligently
The story of the thrawn campaign in legends is infinitely superior to whatever Disney was doing with the first order. In my opinion.
I think it is cannon in TCW that the cis did attempt attacks on Kamino
They blockaded Geonosis but they couldn't bombard it because they need to investigate the factories to see how deep the Separatist conspiracy goes. The Empire Strikes Back explicitly states the Rebels had a shield capable of deflecting any bombardment and Base Delta Zero was actually plan A. Remember how Vader killed Ozzel because the fleet emerged from hyperspace close enough to be detected by the Rebels? I do. The CIS tried Kamino twice and neither time worked. Plus they had orders to attack Coruscant by Palpatine. Plus kidnapping the leader of the enemy faction means there is more of chance of them winning the war quickly than any attack on Kamino could.
Disney bad
Me smart
Give likes
Kamino was contracted to build an Army for the Republic not a navy. An Army doesn't need warships, just transport ships and escorts. I've thus concluded there was no Republic navy to blockade the planet in AOTC.
The most daring crossover event since Endgame
So happy 2 of my favorite Star Wars RUclipsrs collaborated!
Correction: at crait, they did have a base shield, it says so in the movie
Also, I honestly would've put first order in 3rd, hoth in the second, and geonosis in first(since that was the only one of the three where shields weren't in play and the republic still failed to use space forces
Agreed about Geonosis. Hoth and Crait could've ended the war, but had Geonosis succeeded there wouldn't have been a Clone War AT ALL! Palpatine wasn't holding the Republic back that time either; the Republic fumbled it up themselves.
Hoth should be 3rd, the Empire didn't do a lot of crap they could have done because of Vader wanting Luke alive.
Geonosis should be second. The Jedis had 0 knowledge of commanding an army, and the CIS still failed miserably.
Crait should be first. The FO fell for Luke's shitty trick, and for some reason didn't use a bunch of troop platoons to blow open a hole in the mountain and enter. The AT-M6s don't do jack shit. The ultra cannon is left unexposed, leading to Finn almost destroying it. Etc.
@@tragedyplustime8271 I dont think that that tiny little ski speeder would've made a dent in the cannon, it would've just screeched to a halt inside the super long barrel and then gotten incinerated.
Also, I think you're underestimating how long it would've taken to blast through to the inside of the base, especially when there's a convenient entrance with easily beatable defenses right in front of you
And I wouldn't say that walkers were useless, they pretty much blunted the ski speeder assault completely
Also I thought the force hologram or whatever was pretty convincing without historical knowledge, and considering Luke's reputation by then it wouldn't be hard for your average trooper to believe he survived that entire volley without a scratch
@@kostakatsoulis2922 If the ski speeder wasn't a threat to the cannon, then that makes that scene even more pointless lmao, tho that would be expected from Rian.
WHAT ATTACK?! THE SKI SPEEDERS HAVE NO WEAPONS! Even fucking OZZEL would have realized this and kept shooting at the base. The Ski Speeders were an obvious distraction anyone with half a braincell could have seen coming.
Maybe falling for Luke's projection is fine, but not doing anything during Kylo and Luke's "duel" is the dumbest crap ever. The walkers just stay there, watching them, instead of attacking the base. What a retarded move.
@@tragedyplustime8271 well, the ski speeders did actually have guns, I think they thought that maybe they could use their speed to get by the walkers and use concentrated firepower to take out or disable the cannon, or destroy those tow cables instead, or just hold them up long enough for evac to arrive.
And I always thought that finn's near suicide as well as kylo stopping everything for a dual with fake luke were moments where they were just blinded by emotion, not really thinking at all or listening to reason.
Obviously the battle wasn't perfect, but I did think that in the end everything at least made some sense, when taking background info, expanded context and character flaws into account
You know that a story is bad when the bad guys who sold us as fearsome and invincible suddenly are limited and lose due plot armor.
At least empire's defeats are justified by Non-combat reasons like Palpatine's overconfidence and Galen Erso's betray.
god, you're right, it's like after the first movie the Order lost their balls somewhere under the couch and was there only as a set-dressing for the character drama=_=
By that logic the first orders defeats can be justified by Kylo and Hux’s rivalry, kylos unstableness.
I was kind of hoping a video comparison on war doctrines and strategy but still neat
The walkers firing on Luke shows that the First Order was scared shitless of him.
To be honest I would say the CIS.
How so?
Yeah just overlook how Starkiller base was blown up and the first order flagship got kamikazed away.
Target one of the only factions with competent strategist minds.
FO and Resistance have an easy EAW AI as their strategists
Nah a test yoden mod ai
@@bluerobin2982 Yeah so true
Factions compared is back?
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one.
It's a collaboration?
Goooooooood.
The video we were waiting for
Accually the resistance had shields. They even said it
It's awesome to see Factions compared return!
#AskEck
Sorry, this is a bit of a long question. One of my big questions is why did Palpatine fail so spectacularly at the Battle of Endor. In order for this to happen he needed to fail on three separate fronts all at the same time. The ground battle to protect the shield generator, the space battle against the Rebel fleet and the corruption of Luke to the Dark Side.
The only hint I can see about this is the point where Vader goes to speak with Palpatine on the Death Star about the Rebel force on Endor. He tells Palpatine that he has senses his son amongst them. Palpatine seems surprised that he didn't sense Luke.
In the prequel films Palpatine was seen to be a master manipulator capable of running both sides of a civil war, manipulating the Republic government and dealing with a whole cadre of Jedi Masters. So, what changed that led to his sudden fall from power?