Great strategy once the enemy is in the trap there is no way of escaping with out the use of other fleets or assests. However this strategy is best used against the empire. Incompetend imperial captains would take the bait and move their entire fleet. It pains me to say but republic officers have more experience brains. They would either stand their ground or jump away. Frankly they just would not take the bait. Any competend commander would not attack a HVT defended with 2 targets that is screaming of a trap. Plus the interdictor cruiser is a dead give away of a Thrawn pincer or another strategy including interdictors. The sheer presence on the interdictor and the lack of any commandable defense force just makes this strategy unsuable againts high caliber opponents at least it would not worked on me :D. The rebel feet would just jump away. But what i would do instead of this is take your strategy and use it some where else. I would like to tell my strategy to you but im not sure if youll see this. So im keeping it to my self :D
EckhartsLadder great strategy but instead of moving your fleets to stop them from jumping use the death star to hit the biggest targets cause now they are pulling away even if they get away they must return cause of the death star not to mention the rebel ground force will need retrial before leaving other wise they loose the main rebel heros
I like how these strategies can always be narrowed down to "Actually use the space terror Doritos." Its like "Hey, we spend a metric ton of credits on these big terror Doritos, should we actually use them?" "Nah, launch all of our coffins with wings and wait it out."
KingSkeletor Hmmm should we care about those dorito crippling menaces of alphabetical characters? Nah just wait for one of them to like kamikazi some exaggeratedly and unnecessarily protruding section of the dorito.
The anti-Dorito Alphabet letter’s yolo into the long Terror Dorito’s Control Billboard was completely avoidable, through Proper use of the normal sized Terror Doritos And less reliance on the double barn door Suicide Cupola’s.
The better question is: how much of the anti-dorito alphabet could be avoided if they just listened to Thrawn while he was sitting in the conference and screaming "TIE DEFENDER" while smashing a tie-fighter and Xwing toy together?
"I'll see your TIE Defenders and raise you a FRACKIN MISSILE BOOOAT!!!" Alright rebels, we're gonna reenact Robotect with your starfighters. In case you don't know, Missile Boats were the ultimate unit you could get in the old TIE Fighter game and they were absolutely amazing, basically the Empire went "okay we see what the rebels are doing making good starfighters, lets strap a ridiculous number of guided missiles on and go from there." Also made by the man Thrawn.
In my opinion, the Empire's strategy was sound. There would be no need for defensive star destroyers around the death star as it has all the weapons and capabilities of numerous (super) star destroyers, including plenty of TIEs. Maybe they didn't deploy all their TIEs, but it's hard to say. Also, it had an impenetrable shield, the ultimate defense. Not to mention the fact that a defensive fleet would have ruined the image of weakness that was key to drawing in the rebel forces. The surprise legion came after to trap them; it would have been difficult for them to appear between the rebel forces and the death star. Given the immense defensive and offensive capabilities of the Death Star, all the surprise legion needed to do was keep the rebels in firing range of the Death Star, pinning the rebel main forces between overwhelming turbolaser and Death-Star-blast firepower, and....no more rebellion. There are only 3 things that I would have done slightly differently: 1) More AT-STs ON Endor at the back entrance. Those teddy bears don't stand a chance against 20 or 30 more metal chicken walkers. 2) Deploy 75% of all TIEs. The movie made it look like only about (what I expect to be) 10% of the TIEs deployed. Why such large reserves? 3) Have some secret way of blocking the tunnel to the center of the Death Star. This could be as simple as sacrificing a few TIEs in the tunnel once the shield fell to create deadly debris. Maybe I'm missing something, let me know. I'd love to get another opinion on this. (It has been a while since I watched the video.)
I'd like to add, the empire had upwards of 40,000 tie fighters at Endor. At that level of excessive defense, parking a few dozen in the tunnel to the core is nothing but would render the Rebel attack completely impossible.
I agree with your strategy. Though i would add an increased fighter capacity behind the death star out side of scanner range to launch a surprise raid and defense.
I would use nepoloeon tactic against you. FOCUSE certain ships into one small area of your defensive side. Use my fighters to go through the gap and use all my cruisers to focus on the intradicteron the bottem right
If I were the rebels against this, I think the move into knife fight range that Ackbar came up with would still be viable, I'd likely attack your guard fleet with the Death Star, and try to move to the far side. Screw with their targeting by getting in close, as well as possibly getting to the far side, so the Death Star is inbetween the rebel fleet and the main pincers.
I agree with you Doge. The movie makers of star wars are to blame here for making the dark side seem like incompetent idiots with too much money and resources.
Personally I like your strategy better than Palpatine's. If I was in charge I would do something similar except I'd make the 3 fleets bigger and I'd add back up shield generators around the death star, even if the surface shield generator goes, I'd still have two more. When it comes to the 3 fleets, I'd add one more 1 fleet but with the eclipse class star destroyer, I know that's another super weapon and was not completed yet at this time. But having two super weapons on both sides picking off the rebels one by one would be worth it. For the 4th fleet I'd have 5 regular class star destroyers, plus 15 venator class star destroyers for extra smaller support ships. Once all big ships are taken out I'd send in all venators with their smaller ships in the middle to finish off the rest.
Rewatching. Eck's strategy is sound just never forget to use the overwhelming number of Imperial fighters- each Bellator has 400 + fighters, the Death Star has 30 sqn and each ISD has a full wing... total fighter assets? Easily 2400 fighters... 75 of those will definitely be skips and a like amount are Star Wings... 15 SQN Tie Interceptors and a like amounts of Tie Bombers- and that's just the ISDs
The Empire would have won every major battle if they just applied the following simple rules. When the enemy comes in range: Open fire When the enemy comes into fighter range: Launch fighters When in potentially hostile territory launch a combat air patrol. Escorts are to be deployed between capital ships and the enemy. When designing any star fortress, do not forget a sizeable fighter complement. The command center of capital ships is to be located somewhere deep in the hull. Command centers of capital ships have to have hot stand-by backup. But 7 rules is toooooo much.
Except, as far as movie cannon of the time goes, the Empire only has three classes of Star Destroyers, Small, Medium, Large, and four types of Tie Fighters - Standard, Bombers, and two types of Interceptors. The Emperor could have easily won if he sprang his trap earlier. As soon as the stolen shuttle landed it should have been either destroyed or captured. Clearly the shuttle wasn't capable of long-ranged communication from the planet, so they would have had to notify the fleet before landing, so once it's down it's served its purpose. That aside, they've yet to explain why the shielding on every other ship can be punctured by either fighter fire, or a fighter, but not the Death Star. If the Executor had been shielded then the A-Wing should have disintegrated on impact or bounced off. If the former two didn't work, then I would have the fleet come in and form a semi-circle and then actually open fire while the death star began picking off the capitol ships. Keep my fighters stationed close to the fleet or the station so that they aren't easily hit in the cross-fire, but can defend against any rebel fighters that manage to get close.
The Battle Of Endor is very impressive battle. It was very hard for to decide a tactic so impressive, Well Eckharts, I guess you are a great Emperor. Even so, the empire should of made some changes on their Navy. I mean. The Rebels seem to have so much better tech than the Empire. They could still be able to push through that Blockade, you know that. So its pointless trying. RIP Emperor EckhartsLadder
well if emperor Eck took power after the battle of yavin he would likely ramp up production of high end TIE fighters like the /D which would no doubt have a big impact on the rebels fighter power, not to mention deal with a rogue ship entering the deathstar or one ramming an SSD
If I was an imperial official tasked with defending the Death Star ll here is what I would have done - has a primary fleet composed of a ssd, two battle cruisers Intradictors and 20 or so ISDs -supplement it with a few dozen cr90s and nebulon b’s to defend them against rebel fighters -several squadrons of tie advanced, defenders ect were the fucking empire we can afford to replace them after the war and the rebels are gone - as soon as the rebels arrived have the intradictors trap them have the Death Star fire it’s superlaser on home one demoralizing the rebels and throwing them into disarray and have that be the signal for the imperial fleet to engage and annihilate the rebel fleet
I the real issue of the fight was that the emperor obviously just said "stay over there, come in when they do and make me a rebel sanwitch" and was assuming the firepower he had was going to overwhelm them. In the expanded universe, which I believe they used with the games, it wasn't a decisive win. It cost them tons still.
Great counter. A modification, then, would be to hide away the Interdictor away from Rebel eyes. If the Empire could do so with a multi-star-destroyer fleet, they could certainly hide one measly cruiser.
@@e.v4892 fleet was hidden on the other side of Endor. Key point of this trap was to make it irresistible and as realistic as possible. Any unnecessary complications and alliance won't take the bait.
@@e.v4892 to be fair, though, alliance managed to cut through ambush fleet, destroy a super star destroyer and several imperial IIs. Interdictor is a much softer target than any of those.
My understanding is that the ships are more meant to allow the pincer. To sell it better, you could place a bit of a defensive fleet with them - perhaps a third or fourth of what the total 'defense' fleet would have. You know, a size of fleet that might be escorting a VVIP.
Yes, but if you know it’s a trap, you wouldn’t be able to destroy the Death Star without setting off the trap. So either you risk setting off the trap, or just let the Death Star be complete and almost impossible to kill.
As soon as you said "Use a Thrawn tactic" I was like 'oh right, how about we let an actual military commander take charge instead of a psychopathic politician who has zero care for collateral damage.' The arrogance of the dark side.
Palpatines plan was compromised by his desire for a new apprentice. If that wasn’t in the picture I believe the battle would have been far more successful.
Force users in general dont seem to make good leaders, all to focused one "The Strength of the Force" rather then the strength of the trained army you command who can do more then just be your cannon fodder. lus as stated Senate was just trying to troll Luke throughout and didnt have a contingency if for the shield falling
@@GeraltofRivia22 I'd argue that against a Sith, the Jedi were going against a rival that played to their strengths specifically, more emphasis on flashy sword play and space magic. And against the Mandolorians its was Revan going William T. Sherman on a backwards warrior culture and going against Jedi code.
@@UnexpectedWonder considering the fact that palpatine controlled both sides during the clone wars. i say he has the intelligence of a general or admiral
Eck: "Concentrate all fire on the enemy flagship." Random gunner: "But sir there is still a star destroyer out there." Eck *in tactical droid voice* "I don't care."
This reminds me of Empire at War. :D Also something to note: I thought the reason why the Emperor told the fleet to hang back was to give time for Luke's anger to fester and grow. While this strategy may be better in all other aspects, a quick and decisive victory would probably not had the same effect on Luke. But anyways, great video!
I disagree, I think it would have an even more pronounced affect on Luke. If Luke, while on the observation deck were to see is Rebel forces being completely outnumbered and outclassed in tactics, I think he wouldve bubbled into a rage, giving into the dark side of the force.
Honestly I'm not sure why the emperor wanted Luke. Sure, Vader did not turn out to be the ultimate force-user he envisioned and Luke had more potential, but isn't that actually better for him? Vader was capped at around 80% of the emperor's power level, strong enough to be a powerful enforcer while not being strong enough to pose a direct threat to the emperor himself. Palpatine didn't truly believe in the rule of two, he never planned for his apprentice, be it Vader or Luke, to succeed him. He even made a contingency plan to destroy the entire empire in the event of his death. All he cared about was himself, and in that respect Vader was the perfect apprentice.
Veers is a general more familiar with ground combat than an admiral in charge of space combat. Limited use for creating the ultimate admiral, but very useful for creating the ultimate supreme commander.
Leave it to the Grand Admirals to do the tactics. One Grand Admiral should command the defense of the Death Star while another Grand Admiral commands the striking fleet in conjunction with an admiral or a commodore to perform that Thrawn pincer. To overwhelm the Rebels, you need a lot of TIEs to keep their starfighters busy. If I was the Grand Admiral in charge of the offensive strike force, I would use specialized heavy fighters and bombers with escorts for protection to take out small Rebel gunships and support vessels before I can send my Star Destroyers and support ships to crush the Rebels to dust. I would force the Rebels to make two options: fight their way against my forces or to head towards the direction of the Death Star that is guarded by it's own defense fleet and swarms of TIEs and heavy fighters. The combined firepower of the battle station and the defense forces under a fellow Grand Admiral would make the Rebels bleed while my own forces would block them from making any escape vectors because of my own Interdictor Star Destroyers that's also guarded by it's own defense flotilla. So here's my ideal composition of Imperial forces that I'll split 2 forces: Anvil Fleet and Hammer Fleet (comprised of Hammer 1 and Hammer 2): Anvil Fleet guarding the Death Star consists of the following: *2 Interdictor-class Star Destroyers *2 Allegiance Heavy Star Destroyers *4 Imperial II Star Destroyers *1 Executor Class Dreadnaught Anvil Fleet will be under the command of a Grand Admiral in charge of defending the Death Star and is superior to both Moff Jejerrod, who is the commanding officer of the Death Star II, and Admiral Piett of the Executor. This Grand Admiral's flagship is one of the Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers. His job is to create a wall of fire and ships to wear down the Rebel fleet while defend the Death Star. They're the bait. Hammer Fleet, as stated before, will be divided in 2 attack flotillas: Hammer 1 and Hammer 2. It will also be under the command of another Grand Admiral whose flagship is in one of the Bellators. Each flotilla will have the following ships: Hammer 1 (this one gets pulled out of hyperspace and immediately supports Anvil Fleet): *1 Bellator-class Star Dreadnaught *2 Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers *5 Imperial-class MK II Star Destroyers *8 modified and updated Dreadnaught-class gunships. Hammer 1 is to reinforce Anvil and the Death Star while spread out to contain the Rebel fleet to prevent escape into hyperspace from their direction. Hammer 2, divided in as Alpha and Beta Group: *2 Bellator-class Star Dreadnaughts *4 Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers *8 Imperial-class MK II Star Destroyers *9 updated and modified Dreadnaught-class gunships Hammer 2 is the offensive arm of the Hammer Fleet. Their job is to force the Rebels to fight them head-on or force them to engage Hammer 1 and Anvil. Hammer 2 will also spread out to prevent Rebel escape. Hammer Fleet will also command 2 more Interdictor-class Star Destroyers which will be behind the offensive strike force to prevent Rebel escapes. They will be guarded with 4 Vindicator-class Heavy Cruisers, 6 Dreadnaught-class gunships, and two Imperial-class Star Destroyers. While my ideal composition of Imperial force may seem overkill but the point is to contain and crush the Rebellion once and for all. Quantity, as they say, is a quality of it's own.
Frank Dees absolutely. Hell we even saw it in the clone wars lol. Anakin kicked ass, while palpatines cis puppets failed miserably. WITH HIM ON BOARD, I might add.
"your overconfidence is your weakness" as Luke says to Palpatine. I think thats the main issue. Palpatine would never see the rebels as a viable threat and always thought big was better. He couldnt tactically think of the best counter force. Your plan may well have been the best counter to the threats posed by the rebels but it would never have got past Palpatine, as other people have said, also the core of his plan was based around Luke. He saw the battle as a side show, a way to make Luke angry and turn him to the dark side.
@@cuntpoopoo2968 he's like the UK or Rome basically ruled the world yet the UK lost the us to people who barely knew how a gun worked let alone how to aim and because they were over confident on what they could win Rome fell because of their corruption all were in the empire
Brady, Sato Uh, no, definitely likely. If it was an actual battle, the reality involved, it would have been slaughter for the Rebellion. It would have looked tremendously embarrassing to attack such a massive Empire, knowing that they were doing it on a terrible whim. In fact, there wouldn't have been a fight if this was better written as a transpired event. The Rebels wouldn't have been that stupid and the Empire would have snuffed them out far before Endor, basically eliminating this whole part of Star Wars history.
Michael Ramon Well. At least with financial weight you can just keep on mining entire planers for resources. I mean, how many planets do you think you would need to strip mine for 1 Death Star? If it's smaller than a moon I would say maybe 1. And in a world where you don't pay your people there is no real financial loss.
if that where realistic and we further assume this attack happens the way it did..... why does the empire take the strike force on endor as hostages? why not simply kill them then the shield would be up no problem
You could also have ships coming from the top and bottom of the rebel fleet. The rebels don‘t seem to have many weapons on the bottom of their ships, so they're vulnerable there.
Practically any other tactics than this used by Palpatine on Endor, would be better. Even using 30 SD and an Executor, and attack was far better than what they did - simply staying away from the fight. 250k soon Eck! :) And BTW do you remember how you found out about Spacedock channel? Serious question.
+EckhartsLadder Because a while ago, when you didn't seem to know about Spacedock, I wrote in a post that You should check him out. And than You started commenting on his channel and 2-3 weeks later, you exchanged videos etc. I doubt that it was my Post that made you check Spacedock channel, but the coincidence was spooky :D Regardless, when Sojourn starts, it seems that your Company will be making part of Guinevere avionics and ....... doors. Continue great work.
Yes i do agree with this, since the tatics of the empire where ineffective against the rebel alliance, rather they should've gathered their fleet and corner all of them together, or they could've used the thrawn pinser like eck stated which would've been very affective. But im my opinion i wouldve called for anti starfighter ships and wouldve have the executor stau behind and provide cover fire along with the death star and group the remaining ships to press a more aggressive strike to enable the destruction of the death star
Agreed, but I think the Executor is best used as either long range bombardment, as a command and control ship far enough away from the battle not to be concerned, or my personal opinion, hold it in reserve and once you are starting to press the Rebels hard have the Executor drop in on the flank or rear and use it to utterly hammer them for massive psychological impact and damage.
This concept reminds me of Pellaeon reminiscing on the Battle of Endor and wondering what would have happened if Thrawn directed the Battle. This has his tactics written all over it. The use of smaller vessels in tandom with larger capital ships, the use of interdictors both for trapping the rebel fleet and bringing allied fleets out of hyperspace at the right location, and using a sleight of hand to trick the rebels into a false sense of security.
well their scanners were already jammed to not detect the Death Star shield was up, so concealing 2 interdictors doesn't sound that hard. Only Lando had unfoolable scanners apparently.
@@AudamGaming I thought it was more that he had the thought "why would they be jamming us if they don't know we're here?" than him having better scanners.
@@AudamGaming I think it's pretty clear that it was more that he didn't have the time to have an extended conversation on whether it was up or down, and said it was up in order to get his fighters to follow him on the peel off. The fact that it was up was confirmed by the fighters who didn't follow him quickly enough.
Late to the party, but I thought of one tweak to the strategy: Put the interdictors inside the shield protecting the death star. There's no reason to think their gravity wells can't extend outside the shield, and that would make it a lot harder for the rebels to destroy the one thing keeping them there.
I think it would have made more since for the Empire to have a REALLY powerful fleet but the Rebellion to have their most powerful fleet yet to justify their victory. After the first Death Star was destroyed, the rebels got much more support. Then the Empire cracked down on them leading the ESB timeline. However, after the rebels survived Hoth the failure of the Empire to destroy the Rebels started to take a toll. At this point, many more allies should have came to the Rebels side and they should have a large fleet with more destroyers and battleships in addition to their frigates and corvettes.
kharn the betrayer O Star Wars is huge, they could also create a faction that could. But not really besides the Mon Calamari, the Geonosians had potential but they got killed.
Bill Clark that my point I don't think the empire would let people have a navy that could challenge then. Also the Mon calamri ships were exploring ships refitted into warships.
Idea: do an episode where you describe your “perfect fleet”, with access to ships from Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, and/or other sci-fi universes. (17th try)
I know this would be difficult, but can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the whole franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!* I have made this request: twenty-seven times.
What about the Battle of exegol. They had a massive fleet with thousands of star destroyers and thousands of resistance ships. That is the biggest battle ever in sw. It includes the 2 biggest starfleets in all of sw
Notes on the Imperial fleet during the Battle of Endor: -They were ordered to wait on the far side of the moon earlier in the movie by Palpatine himself. -Their approach was likely undetected because the Rebel's sensors were being jammed. (Recall the "We've got to be able to get some kind of reading on that shield up or down" line.) And I'm pretty sure both Legends and Canon materials gives the Empire a few interdiction vessels in their fleet.
As another extra it is heavily implied that Palpatine was specifically commanding the fleet to not actually engage the rebels at all, see Piett's line about the Emperor having something special planned. Palpatine didn't want to just destroy the rebel fleet, he wanted to destroy their hope and morale first; cutting them down with ease while they wither and die under the power of the Death Star. If he had been successful it would have not only ended the Rebel Alliance itself, but would have proven such the propaganda victory that it would likely have prevented any further organised rebellions for the next 20 years. The only reason the star destroyers even saw combat in the battle was because he didn't predict the rebels would counter-attack the fleet so aggressively once the Death Star fired. Ultimately the entire loss falls on Palps himself being far too arrogant and inflexible. If he had let the fleet just trap the rebels in and pummel them with overwhelming firepower then they almost certainly would have won anyway, despite the lackluster fleet composition. Also making use of massive overwhelming waves of TIEs would have been enough to stop the rebel starfighters having too much of an impact, making up for the lack of screening support vessels. Luke himself said it best in the throne room, "Your overconfidence is your weakness."
Easy solution for Legends, call in Thrawn This is what Legends Palpatine should have done Palpatine: Grand Admiral Thrawn, I need you to come out of the Unknown Regions. Thrawn: for what purpose my lord? Palpatine: I need your tactical skills in a trap to destroy the Rebel Alliance. Thrawn: as you wish My Lord. Palpatine: come to the death star 2 over the forest moon of Endor. Thrawn: I shall have a portion of my fleet accompany me there imediately my lord.
Thrawn: Also clear out the Ewoks. Palpatine: What? Thrawn: They worry me. And the fact they ate a dozen troopers speaks to the fact they love our meat and hate us. Palpatine: Very well. Go ahead
You should rename this episode, what would Thrawn do at Endor. Then after the insane success of this video, you can make an entire series named What would Thrawn Do:
I like this strategy, but have a big of a gripe with the use of the Thrawn pincer. That tactic hadn’t been conceived by that point, even by Thrawn, one of the greatest tactical geniuses in Star Wars history. Part of this video was trying to ignore meta-knowledge based on Star Wars lore, so it seems unfair to use a strategy from the future
I imagine it takes practice and careful planning. Mess up your calculations, and your reinforcements end up ramming the enemy fleet your Interdictors are also pinning down. Bit of a Pyrrhic victory there.
rhgvuhhdf actually you could use the interdictor to do what holdo did, slam an empty ship going hyper speed onto the enemy, except this way it would be controlled through the interdictor, why not use this strategy? you would wipe out their fleet instantly at the loss of an empty ship
@Glenn Merkle Does the Thrawn Pincer happen in any of the TIE Fighter missions? It's been twenty years since I played the later campaigns, so I'm not sure.
You know what I would like to see as a secondary command ship apart from the Executor? A really really old and outdated vessel, A Secutor class fleet carrier. Look at its size and how many TIE fighters and interceptors you can fit inside of it, even if you can't match the rebels in starfighter quality deploy ten times their number and overwhelm them. It could also serve to seize control if the Executor went down in order to keep the battle from descending into chaos.
I agree with most of what you said in this battle plan. but the one thing i would do is, as soon as i learned of the assault on the shield generator started. send another large complement of ground forces to the surface and encircle the rebel ground force. this i s also under the pretense that I dont know the Ewoks have allied with the rebels.
The Ewoks were at peace with the Empire until the Rebels poisoned their minds. Yes, give orders that under no circumstances should the "back door" be opened. And given the Legion were encountering difficulties, request ground forces to supplement the garrison. Obliterate the Rebel Fleet by ordering the Star Destroyers to actively engage in working as one to destroy the enemy. Not simply hold put. And evacuate the Emperor immediately once the shield fell. That way the Rebel plan is meaningless since the Empire survives.
Before I even clicked the video, I knew the Eckhart's Ladder would pull the Thrawn Pincer card. ;) Note: positioning those two other Imp Navy groups behind the Alliance Navy's forces. I could only imagine fratricide as friendlies are in the line of fire.
I don't think the Empire really cares too much about fratricide. Friendly fire could be avoided by placing each battlegroup at different altitudes (stagger their battlegroups) and have them alter their altitudes during the battle as needed to avoid shots that missed their intended targets from hitting their allies instead. This could also allow the Empire to attack the rebels from below (attack group), above (attack group), and straight on (defense group) all at once. Just make sure to angle the ships so that they can use most if not all of their laser batteries if needed. There might still be some fratricide still but a lot less and hey, Empire.
Spartan Abrams dark helmet would win, just transform into mega maid and suck up all the star destroyers, executors etc. When you realize that YES that’s how big spaceball One is!
The empire should’ve just done what we all do in empire at war. Bring everything to courocscant then slowly move out leaving one or 2 ships at each planet after it was Concorde.
Really dumb strategically because your not gonna need 2 Star Destroyers at every planet. Alot of planets are too deep in Republic Space to be threatened
If I were in charge of assembling one of three the battle groups I would bring one Bellator,2 prador MK2’s, 6 ISD, 8 raider corvettes, three quasar carriers, 2 gonzaties, 4 Nebula-B’s, 3 Vindactors and that’s how I would design one of your battle groups.
Grand Admiral Dragon one the nebula b wasn’t an imperial vessel, so it wouldn’t have been considered except by an imperial faction after the battle of endor
The Nebulon b is an imperial ship, however the rebels stole a large number of them. It is therefor possible and probably likely that a large imperial force would contain a number of them.
I personally would make liberal use of Lancer class frigates, the rebel's main strength came from their starfighter units, why the empire never made use of a ship whos whole design was centered around destroying starfighters Ill never know.
Now I Know that the Venator was not used often in the galactic civil war, but I would definitely make use of at least 3 of them, they bring pretty decent firepower and protection from starfighters with the 52 point defence turrets, and they could also bring in at least 600 tie fighters each.
Note about Interdictor Star Destroyers: they may only be used for anti hyperspace retreat but because they are part of the Star Destroyer line of ships they can hold their own fight, they have quad turbo lasers and plenty of ion and laser cannons too it also has a full TIE Squadron on board in its hanger.
While they Do,Indeed have quad Turbolasers,Their firepower pales in comparison to a ISD 1/2 or Tector. They’re more glass Derringers with Sticky paper.
The second I found out that the rebels made planet fall I would have trained the laser onto the planet with the rebel assuming that the death start wasn't operational. Then as soon as the shield went down I would have waited for the rebel fleet to arrive and use the interdictors to keep them in place and immediately follow up with jumping those other two fleets in a flanking pincer as described in the video. Then as the fleet is held in place I would have blown up endor and everyone on it eliminating leia, solo, and hell even skywalker. I would of also filled the death star to the brim with star fighters so that even approaching the thing would be like going into a hornets nest. then have all three of those fleets start the squeeze on the rebel fleet. the big moral hit the rebels would take in the beginning of the battel would of been overwhelming to a point that the fleet would be in disarray. The biggest mistake of this battel is they had three of the most prominent rebel figures of the time on a moon next to a planet killing weapon that they had no clue was operational and never used it for its intended purpose.
to be fair, Palpatine DID order that Endor be destroyed once the shield went down, but the issue was that the Death Star wasn't aimed at Endor in the first place. however, if the Death Star was aimed at Endor from the start, it wouldn't have a good angle to fire at the Rebel Fleet and would waste precious time re-orienting itself.
Samuel Haines Its Thrawn Pincer and I agree its a huge advantage to pull ships out of hyperspace where you want them. You can basically throw an executor behind enemy lines,in legends thrawn veterans actually learned to do calculations so precise they didnt need an interdictor field and could jump at an error margin of 100m.
Would this even work here? Since it's Thrawns brainchild, would this even be considered at this point in time given that he's in the unknown regions at this time? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Will Lamar as far as I know you are correct, and I agree. Even Grand Admiral Thrawn did not conceive the Thrawn Pincer until many years later. It seems unfair to use it in this context, especially considering eck specifically tried to ignore meta-knowledge for this video.
Samuel Haines I don't know how it will work in empire at war. when your ship is called into the battle, they always face one direction. You would have to turn the ship, which is extremely slow and painful.
If I was Emperor I would study my enemies while doing my cackle at them. And yes attempt to counter their silly hit and runs like the sacred cowards they are.
I feel that the main problem is by not using the Executor you’re telling Vader he can’t use his flagship in the combat, which might seem odd in the context of chain of command. I guess a solution could be to put Vader solely in control of the ground actions to defend the shield generator.
Vader found it ridiculous that palpatine didn't want him commanding the fleet Vader wanted a portion of the fleet defending Endor while the rest of death squadron would surround and overwhelm the rebels but palpatine wanted to play with luke
First, canon error: they closed with the destroyers to avoid being shot by the death star, not to negate the long range firepower of the imperial fleet In my opinion, the strength of the rebel fleet rests with its starfighters, and weapon emplacements on ships alone just won't cut it; they are stationary, have restrictive firing lines, and are purely defensive weapons. this is a problem we see with world war 2 naval engagements such as the attack on the bismarck, and I think it applies here. an anti-starfighter laser turret is useless until a starfighter is committed to an attack run, and only if that fighter happens to be approaching in the firing corridor of that turret; otherwise its just a big hunk of shining metal. Secondly, if the rebel fleet closes with your defensive fleet the capital ships could screen their fighters by simply getting between or destroying the smaller anti-fighter frigates and It's highly likely they would; even if we ignore their choice to not retreat in the movie, rebels have a tendency to fight desperate fights. Additionally, any fighters that do make it past the screen will get quickly out of the range of your defensive frigates. What you really need to counter a starfighter is another starfighter. a starfighter isn't just defensive, its also offensive, and can pursue and attack other starfighters at will. of the half of the imperial star destroyers you suggest be removed, I would replace as many of them as I could with secutor-class star destoyers. Secutors may lack the capital ship killing capacity of an imp star, but they can still defend themselves and have a light defense screen for starfighters like you suggest. additionally, they carry double the complement of ties a imperial star destroyer does. I would have most of them in the defensive fleet while splitting the rest amongst the two attacking fleets. I would also keep the executor but relegate it to a carrier role unless I could replace it for a tie capacity equivalent of escort carriers (I cant remember their name; they look like flying bricks) since at max capacity it can carry 1,000-1,200 ties. Most of the fighters would just be TIE/LNs due to supply reasons, but I would want as many of the much more advanced tie defenders , avengers, and larger fighter-bombers like the star wing as I could get my hands on. I would start by deploying fighters and organizing them into 4 primary attack groups, with other ties being organized specifically for defense. attack group 1 would comprise of TIE/LNs, group two of interceptors and any specialty aircraft (defenders, avengers, and star wings) and group 3 would consist mostly of bombers and escort ties. Group 1 would be deployed in the traditional fighter screen method, to block the rebel fighters as they attempt to cross the gap in space to attack the imperial capital ships. Group 2's job would be to intercept any fighters that make it through the screen, and provide fighter defense for the capital ships. group 3 would deploy once the rebel fleets close with the imperial fleets and would engage the rebel's light and medium capital ships. I might also have the bombers deploy mines early on, but the risk for friendly fire is probably too high
What is wrong with the entire plan is that the Empire's TIE fighters alone would have been enough... count them, the real number. The Rebels were outnumbered 20 to 1, and numbers do matter.
I think your strategy is great. Definitely Home One should've been the Death Star's first target, since it's the Rebel flagship, so losing it would've been a blow to the Rebel's morale. One thing that would also make a good strategy would be to build the shield generator and the Death Star on a planet like Jakku. The reason that building the shield generator on a planet with open space rather than in a forested area, is because as demonstrated by the Rebels and Ewoks, the forest just provides them with many places to hide whereas being in a desert or grassland area, makes it possible for the guards to see for kilometres around and a lot harder for the Rebels to sneak upon them. Also, the stormtroopers wearing camouflage instead of bright white would help. The Empire should've invested in Ion Cannons as the Malevolence from The Clone Wars series had. Equip the Executor with them and use them to disable most if not all the Rebel ships in one shot and wipe them out. One serious mistake Palpatine/Darth Sidious made is purposely delaying the completion of the Second Death Star. He could've had it finished and operational by the time the battle started. That and still have the shield generator, but also use holograms to make it look like the Death Star was still under construction. That way at least even with the shield generator destroyed, the Rebels would've been caught by surprise that the Death Star was actually complete, as well as operational and they couldn't destroy it, since the lessons the Empire learned at The Battle of Yavin, was to build the Second Death Star with none of the weaknesses of the first one. This was the reason the Rebels wanted to destroy it, while it was still under construction. That and Palpatine, onboard made it an even more tempting target.
You forgot to consider the fact that the big reason the empire lost the battle because their ground forces on endor somehow or in some funny way got rekted by a bunch of freakin’ teddy bears armed with stones, Spears and bows, rigged traps on mech units like the AT-ST walkers, which allowed the remaining rebel forces to deactivate the shield on the Death Star, which in turn was a monumental fuck-up for the empire as the space group did a strike run. If only the ground units stopped the rebels on Endor then no matter how badass and strong the rebel star fighters were, they wouldn’t last too long against the heavy assault, especially with the Death Star 2 firing on capital rebel ships. I think everything was really riding on the Endor ground battle. But then again, plot armor if this was TL;DR
In the Legends book Choices of One Thrawn is, briefly, at Endor talking to the Emperor. When asked how he would’ve protected the generator, Thrawn talked about destroying the forest in a 5km radius around the generator. The Emperor told him he wouldn’t because he wanted to create a trap for the Rebels.
It's like watching a documentary about some battle but you can additionally make your own stuff up since it's not really solidly firmly defined how anything should work in fiction. This is pretty interesting
I’m always confused by the fact that the empire didn’t have hundreds of ships defending the Death Star, with their focus on terror one would think having an insurmountable force defending your greatest asset would have played well into their general fear tactics.
This is amazing hur one thing I would add is get a reasonably flat ship with good shielding and cover the hole the millennium falcon and other x wings flew through with it.
Best transforming fighter: VF-11 Thunderbolt from Macross Plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the Mecha Tengu from Command and Conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber Mospeda.
Well both sides were incompetent from a tactical perspective. The empire could still be competent and could still lose to a even more competent rebellion.
I wonder how the Rebels would counter such a manouver? Heres what I'd do: Most starfighters and small ships should attack the fleet protecting the death star with hit and run tactics with the main objective of keeping the death star killers out of harms way and ready to take the superweapon out at a moment's notice. This would force the defence fleet to scatter so as to cover the deathstar, which would make the interdictors an easier target either for the hit-and-run bombers or the main fleet. It might also force the main imperial starfighter force to target the rebel figheters. While we can expect a large loss of fighters from the digfights, I'd expect the rebels to be able to hold out with an advantage. The main fleet should then target one of the pincer fleets, flying in as close as possible to the larger ships so as to make it hard to target the Mon Calamari cruisers without hitting SDs. The idea would be to target the interdictor(s) as assurance of an escape, using the few remaining stargighters in a cloack and dagger style fight where the battleships take out the shield of the target as well as the protecting corvetes, so that when the way is clear the starfighters can hit the bridge, interdictor field generators, or other vital hard targets, before falling back to their capital ships for another run. Hell, maybe the battle of scariff's tactic of pushing an SD in to another could be used here to take out vital targets. Assuming the ground battle goes the same way it does in the film, the starfighters would go in, take it out, then circle around the battle towards the main fleet, who will hopefully both be alive and kicking, as well as having taken out as many corvettes and interdictors as possible. The incoming starfighters and corvets would do one final, devastating attack run (to take out any remaining must-kill targets) on their way to the main ship's hangars before the entire fleet would jump out. Its probably a sloppy tactic with a high body count for both sides, but if the DS with the emperor falls and at least a handful of rebels make it out, they can spark mass uprisings across the galaxy and fight a crumbling empire. The civil war would probably drag on longer than it did in cannon, but at least it wouldnt be a loss. As for the ground forces on Endor, most likely there is no way to get em' out. However, between the rebel forces and the ewoks plus Luke's suport, they can hold out in a gurilla war for months until either evac, or until the empire falls back because of pressure in other parts of the galaxy. Thoughts? Recomendations? EDIT: we can assume that The Force was on the rebel side, and if I remember right Sidious was using battle meditation to help the empire, so his loss would give another advantage to the rebels? May be wrong, but if I'm not then we can assume that many of the big "ifs" in the battlestrategy would work in favor of the rebels right? Just a thought.
@@propaganda4708 not sure it would work though is the thing... might be overestimating the power of mon-cal shields and rebel starfighters, and underestimating SD turbolasers
Alexander You are correct about your overestimation. While you MAYBE able to take down one of the interdictors, it is very likely that the MASSIVELY OVERWHELMING pincer forces and their LITERAL SWARM of ties would destroy your main fleet. The Bellators and SD are extremely powerful. There are reasons why the SDs can still fight with the Mon-cal even though they have lesser shields. The SDs and the SSDs are known for their absolutely destructive fire power, and they would likely kill the Mon-cal ships faster than the rebels can take down both Interdictors. The ties in this case, out number the rebel fighters too much. You would have situation where rebels are forced to fight 1 X-wings to 5 ties. So whatever superiority they have against the ties are rendered kinda pointless. Theres also the fact that the interdictors could just run away while your main fleet get eaten alive by the two pincer fleet and the DS guard fleet. But the DS would probably still be destroyed. But it also depends on Palpatine and Darth Vader I guess. So that is a no go. Unless the fighters can make it pass the ties of the DS and the guard fleet itself, the DS is some what safe.
Your strategy is essentially what I thought the Empire should have done. Definitely load up on the Lancer-class frigates, as they are pretty much designed to counter the Rebellion's primary tactic of "throw a ton of starfighters at the problem and hope for the best". (Those Lancers gave me such massive headaches in "X-Wing Alliance"......)
so basically. tons of weapons capable of vaporizing everything within hundreds of feet, and all sorts of other powerful weapons. versus 1 tall slightly armored scaly boi.
If they have access to Starkiller Base's massive fuck-off laser, the First Order would win. If this situation has Godzilla Earth just on the Starkiller base destroying everything on the planet-sized superweapon, there really is no chance here. G-Earth obliterates.
I think your battle strategy is more flexible, and I certainly think taking out the Rebel flagship right away is a great opening move. However, I would have brought in a couple or three Imperial carriers to boost fighter strength; ideally, one for each Imperial battle group. This would create more pressure for the Rebel fighter squadrons, and force them to do more defending themselves rather than attacking.
See my others battle strategies in action on my gaming channels!
ruclips.net/user/eckstoo
www.twitch.tv/eckhartsladder
EckhartsLadder who needs fighter defense if you can fire a lot of lasers
10th like
Great strategy once the enemy is in the trap there is no way of escaping with out the use of other fleets or assests. However this strategy is best used against the empire. Incompetend imperial captains would take the bait and move their entire fleet. It pains me to say but republic officers have more experience brains. They would either stand their ground or jump away. Frankly they just would not take the bait. Any competend commander would not attack a HVT defended with 2 targets that is screaming of a trap. Plus the interdictor cruiser is a dead give away of a Thrawn pincer or another strategy including interdictors. The sheer presence on the interdictor and the lack of any commandable defense force just makes this strategy unsuable againts high caliber opponents at least it would not worked on me :D. The rebel feet would just jump away. But what i would do instead of this is take your strategy and use it some where else. I would like to tell my strategy to you but im not sure if youll see this. So im keeping it to my self :D
EckhartsLadder great strategy but instead of moving your fleets to stop them from jumping use the death star to hit the biggest targets cause now they are pulling away even if they get away they must return cause of the death star not to mention the rebel ground force will need retrial before leaving other wise they loose the main rebel heros
You forgot to account for the power of the rebels leader's plot armor. they always find a way to win just as it's almost over
What the Empire should have done before the battle of Endor:
1). Find Thrawn
OH yah if he was there the rebels would be bugs to the imperials
2).leave
He had been found by then. He was running a campaign in the Unknown Regions
4). Find eccardsladder and force him to help them
Why Hate? That’s legends
I like how these strategies can always be narrowed down to "Actually use the space terror Doritos."
Its like "Hey, we spend a metric ton of credits on these big terror Doritos, should we actually use them?"
"Nah, launch all of our coffins with wings and wait it out."
KingSkeletor
Hmmm should we care about those dorito crippling menaces of alphabetical characters? Nah just wait for one of them to like kamikazi some exaggeratedly and unnecessarily protruding section of the dorito.
Space Pizzas > Anti-Pilot Solar Panels.
The anti-Dorito Alphabet letter’s yolo into the long Terror Dorito’s Control Billboard was completely avoidable, through Proper use of the normal sized Terror Doritos And less reliance on the double barn door Suicide Cupola’s.
The better question is: how much of the anti-dorito alphabet could be avoided if they just listened to Thrawn while he was sitting in the conference and screaming "TIE DEFENDER" while smashing a tie-fighter and Xwing toy together?
"I'll see your TIE Defenders and raise you a FRACKIN MISSILE BOOOAT!!!" Alright rebels, we're gonna reenact Robotect with your starfighters. In case you don't know, Missile Boats were the ultimate unit you could get in the old TIE Fighter game and they were absolutely amazing, basically the Empire went "okay we see what the rebels are doing making good starfighters, lets strap a ridiculous number of guided missiles on and go from there." Also made by the man Thrawn.
In my opinion, the Empire's strategy was sound.
There would be no need for defensive star destroyers around the death star as it has all the weapons and capabilities of numerous (super) star destroyers, including plenty of TIEs. Maybe they didn't deploy all their TIEs, but it's hard to say. Also, it had an impenetrable shield, the ultimate defense. Not to mention the fact that a defensive fleet would have ruined the image of weakness that was key to drawing in the rebel forces. The surprise legion came after to trap them; it would have been difficult for them to appear between the rebel forces and the death star. Given the immense defensive and offensive capabilities of the Death Star, all the surprise legion needed to do was keep the rebels in firing range of the Death Star, pinning the rebel main forces between overwhelming turbolaser and Death-Star-blast firepower, and....no more rebellion.
There are only 3 things that I would have done slightly differently:
1) More AT-STs ON Endor at the back entrance. Those teddy bears don't stand a chance against 20 or 30 more metal chicken walkers.
2) Deploy 75% of all TIEs. The movie made it look like only about (what I expect to be) 10% of the TIEs deployed. Why such large reserves?
3) Have some secret way of blocking the tunnel to the center of the Death Star. This could be as simple as sacrificing a few TIEs in the tunnel once the shield fell to create deadly debris.
Maybe I'm missing something, let me know. I'd love to get another opinion on this. (It has been a while since I watched the video.)
Have a pair of Tie defenders in the Death Star reactor.
Literally just put a metal grate on the death star reactor and your victory is guaranteed.
I'd like to add, the empire had upwards of 40,000 tie fighters at Endor. At that level of excessive defense, parking a few dozen in the tunnel to the core is nothing but would render the Rebel attack completely impossible.
I agree with your tactics in this battle I would use more than you did but not that much more but I would use more light cruisers and tie defenders
I agree with your strategy. Though i would add an increased fighter capacity behind the death star out side of scanner range to launch a surprise raid and defense.
Palpatine was no Admiral Thrawn. Ezra's self sacrifice to take Thrawn out of the picture turned out to be invaluable.
bellator is my personal favorite ship in star wars. it would be nice to see it in a film or animated series.
I would use nepoloeon tactic against you. FOCUSE certain ships into one small area of your defensive side. Use my fighters to go through the gap and use all my cruisers to focus on the intradicteron the bottem right
But you forgot that Piett was a fool!
If I were the rebels against this, I think the move into knife fight range that Ackbar came up with would still be viable, I'd likely attack your guard fleet with the Death Star, and try to move to the far side. Screw with their targeting by getting in close, as well as possibly getting to the far side, so the Death Star is inbetween the rebel fleet and the main pincers.
I would actually have some star destroyers waiting in the death star reactor
While they’d probably fit in the reactor itself, how would they get into it?
@@samjames6714 I would have them constructed there
I agree with you Doge.
The movie makers of star wars are to blame here for making the dark side seem like incompetent idiots with too much money and resources.
Personally I like your strategy better than Palpatine's.
If I was in charge I would do something similar except I'd make the 3 fleets bigger and I'd add back up shield generators around the death star, even if the surface shield generator goes, I'd still have two more.
When it comes to the 3 fleets, I'd add one more 1 fleet but with the eclipse class star destroyer, I know that's another super weapon and was not completed yet at this time.
But having two super weapons on both sides picking off the rebels one by one would be worth it.
For the 4th fleet I'd have 5 regular class star destroyers, plus 15 venator class star destroyers for extra smaller support ships.
Once all big ships are taken out I'd send in all venators with their smaller ships in the middle to finish off the rest.
Rewatching. Eck's strategy is sound just never forget to use the overwhelming number of Imperial fighters- each Bellator has 400 + fighters, the Death Star has 30 sqn and each ISD has a full wing... total fighter assets? Easily 2400 fighters... 75 of those will definitely be skips and a like amount are Star Wings... 15 SQN Tie Interceptors and a like amounts of Tie Bombers- and that's just the ISDs
The Empire would have won every major battle if they just applied the following simple rules.
When the enemy comes in range: Open fire
When the enemy comes into fighter range: Launch fighters
When in potentially hostile territory launch a combat air patrol.
Escorts are to be deployed between capital ships and the enemy.
When designing any star fortress, do not forget a sizeable fighter complement.
The command center of capital ships is to be located somewhere deep in the hull.
Command centers of capital ships have to have hot stand-by backup.
But 7 rules is toooooo much.
Except, as far as movie cannon of the time goes, the Empire only has three classes of Star Destroyers, Small, Medium, Large, and four types of Tie Fighters - Standard, Bombers, and two types of Interceptors.
The Emperor could have easily won if he sprang his trap earlier. As soon as the stolen shuttle landed it should have been either destroyed or captured. Clearly the shuttle wasn't capable of long-ranged communication from the planet, so they would have had to notify the fleet before landing, so once it's down it's served its purpose.
That aside, they've yet to explain why the shielding on every other ship can be punctured by either fighter fire, or a fighter, but not the Death Star. If the Executor had been shielded then the A-Wing should have disintegrated on impact or bounced off.
If the former two didn't work, then I would have the fleet come in and form a semi-circle and then actually open fire while the death star began picking off the capitol ships. Keep my fighters stationed close to the fleet or the station so that they aren't easily hit in the cross-fire, but can defend against any rebel fighters that manage to get close.
The Battle Of Endor is very impressive battle. It was very hard for to decide a tactic so impressive, Well Eckharts, I guess you are a great Emperor. Even so, the empire should of made some changes on their Navy. I mean. The Rebels seem to have so much better tech than the Empire. They could still be able to push through that Blockade, you know that. So its pointless trying. RIP Emperor EckhartsLadder
well if emperor Eck took power after the battle of yavin he would likely ramp up production of high end TIE fighters like the /D which would no doubt have a big impact on the rebels fighter power, not to mention deal with a rogue ship entering the deathstar or one ramming an SSD
I feel like you'd enjoy Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
If I was an imperial official tasked with defending the Death Star ll here is what I would have done
- has a primary fleet composed of a ssd, two battle cruisers Intradictors and 20 or so ISDs
-supplement it with a few dozen cr90s and nebulon b’s to defend them against rebel fighters
-several squadrons of tie advanced, defenders ect were the fucking empire we can afford to replace them after the war and the rebels are gone
- as soon as the rebels arrived have the intradictors trap them have the Death Star fire it’s superlaser on home one demoralizing the rebels and throwing them into disarray and have that be the signal for the imperial fleet to engage and annihilate the rebel fleet
WE THE BRUH ARMY WILL TAKE OVER RUclips
I the real issue of the fight was that the emperor obviously just said "stay over there, come in when they do and make me a rebel sanwitch" and was assuming the firepower he had was going to overwhelm them. In the expanded universe, which I believe they used with the games, it wasn't a decisive win. It cost them tons still.
An unprotected space station with just two cruisers, specifically designed to not let anyone escape to the hyperspace.
Totally not a trap.
Great counter. A modification, then, would be to hide away the Interdictor away from Rebel eyes. If the Empire could do so with a multi-star-destroyer fleet, they could certainly hide one measly cruiser.
@@e.v4892 fleet was hidden on the other side of Endor.
Key point of this trap was to make it irresistible and as realistic as possible.
Any unnecessary complications and alliance won't take the bait.
@@e.v4892 to be fair, though, alliance managed to cut through ambush fleet, destroy a super star destroyer and several imperial IIs. Interdictor is a much softer target than any of those.
My understanding is that the ships are more meant to allow the pincer. To sell it better, you could place a bit of a defensive fleet with them - perhaps a third or fourth of what the total 'defense' fleet would have. You know, a size of fleet that might be escorting a VVIP.
Yes, but if you know it’s a trap, you wouldn’t be able to destroy the Death Star without setting off the trap. So either you risk setting off the trap, or just let the Death Star be complete and almost impossible to kill.
As soon as you said "Use a Thrawn tactic" I was like 'oh right, how about we let an actual military commander take charge instead of a psychopathic politician who has zero care for collateral damage.' The arrogance of the dark side.
Palpatines plan was compromised by his desire for a new apprentice. If that wasn’t in the picture I believe the battle would have been far more successful.
Force users in general dont seem to make good leaders, all to focused one "The Strength of the Force" rather then the strength of the trained army you command who can do more then just be your cannon fodder.
lus as stated Senate was just trying to troll Luke throughout and didnt have a contingency if for the shield falling
@@MrTwistedLizard the Jedi during the Sith Wars and Mandalorian Wars were pretty great commanders from what I understand.
@@GeraltofRivia22 I'd argue that against a Sith, the Jedi were going against a rival that played to their strengths specifically, more emphasis on flashy sword play and space magic.
And against the Mandolorians its was Revan going William T. Sherman on a backwards warrior culture and going against Jedi code.
Vader was a pretty competent military commander.
Rule 1 in war: don't let politicians make military strategy
ben davis proven time and time again. US in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria; Nazis in WW2; Italy in WW1 and 2 as well as Vietnamz
Unless said politicians are themselves veteran commanders. Even then, have a council.
Exactly!!! 👌👌💪💪👊👊👏👏👏
@Austin Su Yet he was a Politician, not a General or Admiral.
@@UnexpectedWonder considering the fact that palpatine controlled both sides during the clone wars. i say he has the intelligence of a general or admiral
Eck: "Concentrate all fire on the enemy flagship."
Random gunner: "But sir there is still a star destroyer out there."
Eck *in tactical droid voice* "I don't care."
"Did I stutter"
Random Gunner: *In B1 Battle Droid voice* Roger Roger.
Dew it!
"Roger roger"
*then they shouldn’t have been there in the first place*
I'm doing a presentation in school on why the Empire lost at Endor.
bjaminrowe what subject is that??
That sounds awesome. Good luck.
Plot. The End.^^
Dont forget to find some real world naval battles of a similar theme to compare, both successful and unsuccessful
Why are you still in school?
Rebels: jumps into Endor' surroundings
Grand Admiral/Emperor Eckhart: **laugh evilly**
When you want to destroy Home One:
(To the star destroyers)
”some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make”
-Eck 2019
Imperials including Blitzer Harrsk: We're going to pull what's called a pro gamer move
Counter attack: Ewoks with wings destroy the Death Star with sticks and rocks
THEY FLY NOW!?
@@TCStink3 they fly now
@@lemonke1709 they, indeed, yes. Fly now.
Fourth world war rule
@@TCStink3 where's that from again?
This reminds me of Empire at War. :D
Also something to note: I thought the reason why the Emperor told the fleet to hang back was to give time for Luke's anger to fester and grow. While this strategy may be better in all other aspects, a quick and decisive victory would probably not had the same effect on Luke.
But anyways, great video!
I disagree, I think it would have an even more pronounced affect on Luke. If Luke, while on the observation deck were to see is Rebel forces being completely outnumbered and outclassed in tactics, I think he wouldve bubbled into a rage, giving into the dark side of the force.
What you said is entirely possible, the Dark Side is mysterious indeed.
Honestly I'm not sure why the emperor wanted Luke. Sure, Vader did not turn out to be the ultimate force-user he envisioned and Luke had more potential, but isn't that actually better for him? Vader was capped at around 80% of the emperor's power level, strong enough to be a powerful enforcer while not being strong enough to pose a direct threat to the emperor himself. Palpatine didn't truly believe in the rule of two, he never planned for his apprentice, be it Vader or Luke, to succeed him. He even made a contingency plan to destroy the entire empire in the event of his death. All he cared about was himself, and in that respect Vader was the perfect apprentice.
Golden King I agree. Vader embraced the darkside, yet he wants someone to be a darkside user that doesn't wanna be.
Palpatine was just stupid, he wanted to demonstrate the power of the DS.
When the plot lets the rebels always win all the time:
“WHY DOES THE PLOT LET THE REBELS WIN?!?!?!?!?!”
When the empire wins:
“Good.”
jorge marquez no
I don’t get rebels survive more than one shot
Exactly
its because its a film and they have to win
new headcanon: Thrawn was sent to the Unknown Regions when he criticised Palpatine's plan to crush the Rebels at Endor.
"I'm a big boy, I can destroy the rebels on my own! I'll show him!"
Plot twist: Thrawn wasn’t even in the Star Wars galaxy, and wouldn’t return until 7 years after the battle of Endor
‘I don’t care if I have to lose even an imperial star destroyer in the crossfire.’
Palpatine has trained you well.
How to create the ultimate admiral: Combine the brains of:
Thrawn
Trench
Piett
Veers
Anakin
Ackbar
Pellaeon
"You underestimate my forward firepower, for I have pulled you into a trap."
The Ultimate Admiral at 100% power: Thrawn, Trench, Piett, Veers, Anakin, and Ackbar.
The Ultimate Admiral at 99% power: Thrawn.
So, like Cobra Emperor from. GI Joe
Frostfire yularen*
Veers is a general more familiar with ground combat than an admiral in charge of space combat. Limited use for creating the ultimate admiral, but very useful for creating the ultimate supreme commander.
Best strategy: Keep Palpatine out from the planing and leave it all to Piett.
Ratzfatz Vader would've commanded a MUCH better war than Palpatine
Leave it to the Grand Admirals to do the tactics. One Grand Admiral should command the defense of the Death Star while another Grand Admiral commands the striking fleet in conjunction with an admiral or a commodore to perform that Thrawn pincer. To overwhelm the Rebels, you need a lot of TIEs to keep their starfighters busy. If I was the Grand Admiral in charge of the offensive strike force, I would use specialized heavy fighters and bombers with escorts for protection to take out small Rebel gunships and support vessels before I can send my Star Destroyers and support ships to crush the Rebels to dust. I would force the Rebels to make two options: fight their way against my forces or to head towards the direction of the Death Star that is guarded by it's own defense fleet and swarms of TIEs and heavy fighters. The combined firepower of the battle station and the defense forces under a fellow Grand Admiral would make the Rebels bleed while my own forces would block them from making any escape vectors because of my own Interdictor Star Destroyers that's also guarded by it's own defense flotilla.
So here's my ideal composition of Imperial forces that I'll split 2 forces: Anvil Fleet and Hammer Fleet (comprised of Hammer 1 and Hammer 2):
Anvil Fleet guarding the Death Star consists of the following:
*2 Interdictor-class Star Destroyers
*2 Allegiance Heavy Star Destroyers
*4 Imperial II Star Destroyers
*1 Executor Class Dreadnaught
Anvil Fleet will be under the command of a Grand Admiral in charge of defending the Death Star and is superior to both Moff Jejerrod, who is the commanding officer of the Death Star II, and Admiral Piett of the Executor. This Grand Admiral's flagship is one of the Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers. His job is to create a wall of fire and ships to wear down the Rebel fleet while defend the Death Star. They're the bait.
Hammer Fleet, as stated before, will be divided in 2 attack flotillas: Hammer 1 and Hammer 2. It will also be under the command of another Grand Admiral whose flagship is in one of the Bellators.
Each flotilla will have the following ships:
Hammer 1 (this one gets pulled out of hyperspace and immediately supports Anvil Fleet):
*1 Bellator-class Star Dreadnaught
*2 Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers
*5 Imperial-class MK II Star Destroyers
*8 modified and updated Dreadnaught-class gunships.
Hammer 1 is to reinforce Anvil and the Death Star while spread out to contain the Rebel fleet to prevent escape into hyperspace from their direction.
Hammer 2, divided in as Alpha and Beta Group:
*2 Bellator-class Star Dreadnaughts
*4 Allegiance-class Heavy Star Destroyers
*8 Imperial-class MK II Star Destroyers
*9 updated and modified Dreadnaught-class gunships
Hammer 2 is the offensive arm of the Hammer Fleet. Their job is to force the Rebels to fight them head-on or force them to engage Hammer 1 and Anvil. Hammer 2 will also spread out to prevent Rebel escape.
Hammer Fleet will also command 2 more Interdictor-class Star Destroyers which will be behind the offensive strike force to prevent Rebel escapes. They will be guarded with 4 Vindicator-class Heavy Cruisers, 6 Dreadnaught-class gunships, and two Imperial-class Star Destroyers.
While my ideal composition of Imperial force may seem overkill but the point is to contain and crush the Rebellion once and for all. Quantity, as they say, is a quality of it's own.
Also put Tarking away from designing overall fleet composition....Tarkin doctrine was main reason why rebels were so succesful against imperial fleets
Frank Dees absolutely. Hell we even saw it in the clone wars lol. Anakin kicked ass, while palpatines cis puppets failed miserably. WITH HIM ON BOARD, I might add.
@@nickniehaus1763 the CIS were set up to fail though
"your overconfidence is your weakness" as Luke says to Palpatine. I think thats the main issue. Palpatine would never see the rebels as a viable threat and always thought big was better. He couldnt tactically think of the best counter force. Your plan may well have been the best counter to the threats posed by the rebels but it would never have got past Palpatine, as other people have said, also the core of his plan was based around Luke. He saw the battle as a side show, a way to make Luke angry and turn him to the dark side.
He's the same guy who almost killed the whole jedi order
@@cuntpoopoo2968 he's like the UK or Rome basically ruled the world yet the UK lost the us to people who barely knew how a gun worked let alone how to aim and because they were over confident on what they could win Rome fell because of their corruption all were in the empire
@@cuntpoopoo2968 that certainly didn't help his ego
@@cuntpoopoo2968 but the plan was from his master he only execute the plan is still pretty
@@cuntpoopoo2968 yea but at that point it’s been a while since that and he’s been winning for a while too. Probably got a lil complacent
Honestly, the empire would have won if it was a real battle and the rebels didn’t have massive plot armor.
GorgeousGuardStar unlikely
Brady, Sato
Uh, no, definitely likely. If it was an actual battle, the reality involved, it would have been slaughter for the Rebellion. It would have looked tremendously embarrassing to attack such a massive Empire, knowing that they were doing it on a terrible whim.
In fact, there wouldn't have been a fight if this was better written as a transpired event. The Rebels wouldn't have been that stupid and the Empire would have snuffed them out far before Endor, basically eliminating this whole part of Star Wars history.
Well, if reality was involved, the Empire would have imploded under its own financial weight over a decade earlier, so...
Michael Ramon
Well. At least with financial weight you can just keep on mining entire planers for resources. I mean, how many planets do you think you would need to strip mine for 1 Death Star? If it's smaller than a moon I would say maybe 1. And in a world where you don't pay your people there is no real financial loss.
if that where realistic and we further assume this attack happens the way it did..... why does the empire take the strike force on endor as hostages? why not simply kill them then the shield would be up no problem
8:32 I would yell "It's a trap!" the moment the interdiction field came up.
You could also have ships coming from the top and bottom of the rebel fleet.
The rebels don‘t seem to have many weapons on the bottom of their ships, so they're vulnerable there.
Everyone forgets space is 3D
Practically any other tactics than this used by Palpatine on Endor, would be better. Even using 30 SD and an Executor, and attack was far better than what they did - simply staying away from the fight. 250k soon Eck! :) And BTW do you remember how you found out about Spacedock channel? Serious question.
Not sure!
+EckhartsLadder Because a while ago, when you didn't seem to know about Spacedock, I wrote in a post that You should check him out. And than You started commenting on his channel and 2-3 weeks later, you exchanged videos etc. I doubt that it was my Post that made you check Spacedock channel, but the coincidence was spooky :D Regardless, when Sojourn starts, it seems that your Company will be making part of Guinevere avionics and ....... doors. Continue great work.
Yes i do agree with this, since the tatics of the empire where ineffective against the rebel alliance, rather they should've gathered their fleet and corner all of them together, or they could've used the thrawn pinser like eck stated which would've been very affective. But im my opinion i wouldve called for anti starfighter ships and wouldve have the executor stau behind and provide cover fire along with the death star and group the remaining ships to press a more aggressive strike to enable the destruction of the death star
Agreed, but I think the Executor is best used as either long range bombardment, as a command and control ship far enough away from the battle not to be concerned, or my personal opinion, hold it in reserve and once you are starting to press the Rebels hard have the Executor drop in on the flank or rear and use it to utterly hammer them for massive psychological impact and damage.
Most importanly..
*INTESIFY FORWARS FIREPOWER*
and destroy those rebel ship
This concept reminds me of Pellaeon reminiscing on the Battle of Endor and wondering what would have happened if Thrawn directed the Battle. This has his tactics written all over it. The use of smaller vessels in tandom with larger capital ships, the use of interdictors both for trapping the rebel fleet and bringing allied fleets out of hyperspace at the right location, and using a sleight of hand to trick the rebels into a false sense of security.
I feel like they would identify the interdictor cruisers and know it was a trap before they attacked.
well their scanners were already jammed to not detect the Death Star shield was up, so concealing 2 interdictors doesn't sound that hard. Only Lando had unfoolable scanners apparently.
@@AudamGaming fair point, forgot about that.
@@AudamGaming I thought it was more that he had the thought "why would they be jamming us if they don't know we're here?" than him having better scanners.
@@CircleTheSkies but then he proceeds to confirm shield was up, wether if it is because of his gut feeling or an actual scan is unclear though.
@@AudamGaming I think it's pretty clear that it was more that he didn't have the time to have an extended conversation on whether it was up or down, and said it was up in order to get his fighters to follow him on the peel off. The fact that it was up was confirmed by the fighters who didn't follow him quickly enough.
Late to the party, but I thought of one tweak to the strategy: Put the interdictors inside the shield protecting the death star. There's no reason to think their gravity wells can't extend outside the shield, and that would make it a lot harder for the rebels to destroy the one thing keeping them there.
Beyond that, I was thinking maybe the interdictors could be hidden behind the Death Star’s incomplete hull.
Would Cloaking devices Work at the Same time The Interdictor field is active?
"Hey, sir, the Death Star just took out one of ours!"
"Screw the empire, all forces, assist the rebels!"
Your strategy can't work plot armor.
the Bellators have a change of heart after watching the fish tanks crack and switch sides or something would be my wager.
I think it would have made more since for the Empire to have a REALLY powerful fleet but the Rebellion to have their most powerful fleet yet to justify their victory. After the first Death Star was destroyed, the rebels got much more support. Then the Empire cracked down on them leading the ESB timeline. However, after the rebels survived Hoth the failure of the Empire to destroy the Rebels started to take a toll. At this point, many more allies should have came to the Rebels side and they should have a large fleet with more destroyers and battleships in addition to their frigates and corvettes.
Bill Clark I don't think any other faction could field and support the rebels. Many sides did switch to rebels but did they have battleship.
kharn the betrayer O Star Wars is huge, they could also create a faction that could. But not really besides the Mon Calamari, the Geonosians had potential but they got killed.
Bill Clark that my point I don't think the empire would let people have a navy that could challenge then. Also the Mon calamri ships were exploring ships refitted into warships.
Idea: do an episode where you describe your “perfect fleet”, with access to ships from Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, and/or other sci-fi universes.
(17th try)
Warden - I'm pretty sure he did that.
ruclips.net/video/9bvM3DyZ1iY/видео.html
Shane Rooney That’s just Star Wars, he means from all other sci fi universes
That would make a cool rts game
BXOTROT ___ wouldn't the end result be the same? :P
But seriously, such lists will end up being dominated by just 1 OP Sci-fi series.
When you said about being the emperor for the battle, I imagined a doge just sitting is Palpatines chair.
Imagine the battle of endor with modern special effects and cgi it would be beautiful like the battle of scarif
Even the small amount of time we got from BF2 was good
8:15 welcome to the imperial academy
The Pilot it gets worse here every day!
I know this would be difficult, but can you breakdown what is by far the largest space battle in the whole franchise? *The* *Battle* *of* *Yuuzhan'tar!*
I have made this request: twenty-seven times.
What about the Battle of exegol. They had a massive fleet with thousands of star destroyers and thousands of resistance ships. That is the biggest battle ever in sw. It includes the 2 biggest starfleets in all of sw
Leonardo Chapman HAHHAHAHAHHAAH
@@leonardochapman4736 that battle is shit.
@@lt-yx1hx it doesn't matter whether you think it's good or not, but you can't deny that it was the biggest battle in canon
@@leonardochapman4736 he's already made multiple videos on the topic. Including one about how it makes absolutely no sense
Some stormtroopers missed and hit the dislike button...
Nah they were Rebel sympathizers. Stormtroopers loved and liked the video!
144 to be exact
I would like this comment, but I don't wanna upset that number
Honestly, if you were an admiral in the Star Wars universe, I'd gladly he serving under your command.
He'd put you on that star destroyer in the crossfire of the home one
@@sylvarwulf3946 Wth!?
@@SWTobito0702 Eck did say he would be willing to sacrifice a few ISDs to destroy Home one. Would you really like serving on one of them?
@@vermas4654 ill epicly serve on his flagship
"It's easy to break down the failures of others, its more difficult to come up with your own solution"
Notes on the Imperial fleet during the Battle of Endor:
-They were ordered to wait on the far side of the moon earlier in the movie by Palpatine himself.
-Their approach was likely undetected because the Rebel's sensors were being jammed. (Recall the "We've got to be able to get some kind of reading on that shield up or down" line.)
And I'm pretty sure both Legends and Canon materials gives the Empire a few interdiction vessels in their fleet.
As another extra it is heavily implied that Palpatine was specifically commanding the fleet to not actually engage the rebels at all, see Piett's line about the Emperor having something special planned. Palpatine didn't want to just destroy the rebel fleet, he wanted to destroy their hope and morale first; cutting them down with ease while they wither and die under the power of the Death Star. If he had been successful it would have not only ended the Rebel Alliance itself, but would have proven such the propaganda victory that it would likely have prevented any further organised rebellions for the next 20 years.
The only reason the star destroyers even saw combat in the battle was because he didn't predict the rebels would counter-attack the fleet so aggressively once the Death Star fired. Ultimately the entire loss falls on Palps himself being far too arrogant and inflexible. If he had let the fleet just trap the rebels in and pummel them with overwhelming firepower then they almost certainly would have won anyway, despite the lackluster fleet composition. Also making use of massive overwhelming waves of TIEs would have been enough to stop the rebel starfighters having too much of an impact, making up for the lack of screening support vessels. Luke himself said it best in the throne room, "Your overconfidence is your weakness."
THIS. The Rebel fleet was sensor blind, they couldn't see the Imperial fleet until it was right upon them, coming in from behind Endor moon.
Well... i can t change it now.
WRONG SERIES
@@edwardcierniak7879 wait, what series is that.
Easy solution for Legends, call in Thrawn
This is what Legends Palpatine should have done
Palpatine: Grand Admiral Thrawn, I need you to come out of the Unknown Regions.
Thrawn: for what purpose my lord?
Palpatine: I need your tactical skills in a trap to destroy the Rebel Alliance.
Thrawn: as you wish My Lord.
Palpatine: come to the death star 2 over the forest moon of Endor.
Thrawn: I shall have a portion of my fleet accompany me there imediately my lord.
Ask Thrawn for help is the easy answer for every military problem ever.
Thrawn: Also clear out the Ewoks.
Palpatine: What?
Thrawn: They worry me. And the fact they ate a dozen troopers speaks to the fact they love our meat and hate us.
Palpatine: Very well. Go ahead
Thrawn is canon
@@tfcstudios5421 did you see how Rebels ended?
@@Jedi_Spartan Almost all of it
"We have to take out that interdictor before we can go anywhere!"
When you said "But little did they know...", I expected you to say "The rebellion would be destroyed!" and laugh maniacally
You should rename this episode, what would Thrawn do at Endor.
Then after the insane success of this video, you can make an entire series named What would Thrawn Do:
Diluted I'd like to know what Vader would've done at endor
OR what would Admiral Daala do at Endor? :D (Some uber reckless kamikaze tactics or even blowing up the Endor when shield has gone :D )
I like this strategy, but have a big of a gripe with the use of the Thrawn pincer. That tactic hadn’t been conceived by that point, even by Thrawn, one of the greatest tactical geniuses in Star Wars history. Part of this video was trying to ignore meta-knowledge based on Star Wars lore, so it seems unfair to use a strategy from the future
I find it odd that you could make a craft like the Interdictor and _not_ think of this strategy.
I imagine it takes practice and careful planning. Mess up your calculations, and your reinforcements end up ramming the enemy fleet your Interdictors are also pinning down. Bit of a Pyrrhic victory there.
rhgvuhhdf actually you could use the interdictor to do what holdo did, slam an empty ship going hyper speed onto the enemy, except this way it would be controlled through the interdictor, why not use this strategy? you would wipe out their fleet instantly at the loss of an empty ship
@Glenn Merkle Does the Thrawn Pincer happen in any of the TIE Fighter missions? It's been twenty years since I played the later campaigns, so I'm not sure.
You know what I would like to see as a secondary command ship apart from the Executor? A really really old and outdated vessel, A Secutor class fleet carrier. Look at its size and how many TIE fighters and interceptors you can fit inside of it, even if you can't match the rebels in starfighter quality deploy ten times their number and overwhelm them. It could also serve to seize control if the Executor went down in order to keep the battle from descending into chaos.
The 173 dislikes are from rebel fans, the 12K though the Empire fans
I agree with most of what you said in this battle plan. but the one thing i would do is, as soon as i learned of the assault on the shield generator started. send another large complement of ground forces to the surface and encircle the rebel ground force. this i s also under the pretense that I dont know the Ewoks have allied with the rebels.
as if the empire would view them as threats even if they knew
The Ewoks were at peace with the Empire until the Rebels poisoned their minds. Yes, give orders that under no circumstances should the "back door" be opened. And given the Legion were encountering difficulties, request ground forces to supplement the garrison. Obliterate the Rebel Fleet by ordering the Star Destroyers to actively engage in working as one to destroy the enemy. Not simply hold put. And evacuate the Emperor immediately once the shield fell. That way the Rebel plan is meaningless since the Empire survives.
Before I even clicked the video, I knew the Eckhart's Ladder would pull the Thrawn Pincer card. ;)
Note: positioning those two other Imp Navy groups behind the Alliance Navy's forces. I could only imagine fratricide as friendlies are in the line of fire.
I don't think the Empire really cares too much about fratricide.
Friendly fire could be avoided by placing each battlegroup at different altitudes (stagger their battlegroups) and have them alter their altitudes during the battle as needed to avoid shots that missed their intended targets from hitting their allies instead.
This could also allow the Empire to attack the rebels from below (attack group), above (attack group), and straight on (defense group) all at once.
Just make sure to angle the ships so that they can use most if not all of their laser batteries if needed.
There might still be some fratricide still but a lot less and hey, Empire.
Dark Helmet Vs Darth Vader (7th nonillionth attempt)
Lone star VS Han Solo
both of these would be awesome(and probably hilarious)
Spartan Abrams dark helmet would win, just transform into mega maid and suck up all the star destroyers, executors etc.
When you realize that YES that’s how big spaceball One is!
Boooo you STINK!
Dark Helmet would easily win
They should let the death star make a hyperspace jump into the Rebel Fleet 🎇
I love how nobody bats an eye he said he wouldn't mind killing thousands of his own crew for taking out the rebel flagship.
Hey eck, just wanna say that your vids are amazing and i hope you keep growing as a channel and grow larger.
Just launch a ship into hyperspace at the death star duh
*Holdo-maneuver intensifies*
*What could go wrong*
The empire should’ve just done what we all do in empire at war. Bring everything to courocscant then slowly move out leaving one or 2 ships at each planet after it was Concorde.
Really dumb strategically because your not gonna need 2 Star Destroyers at every planet. Alot of planets are too deep in Republic Space to be threatened
Everyone: It’s all about the acoustics. You see when the sound waves, they propagate. It’s like a-
Me: Turn on the tractor beam
ROLL CREDITS
HMMMMM
Nobody remember there's TRACCTOR BEEMS in Death Star lmao
Replicators vs a Unified Star Wars universe (253rd try now, *_I._** WILL NEEEEVER EEEVER GIVE UP!!!)*
Doomguy vs Space Marine
coming up on infra-red I agree
coming up on infra-red up
coming up on infra-red . Well look at the caholys on this guy I wanna see that!
This sounds like someone has been playing EAW :D
If I were in charge of assembling one of three the battle groups I would bring one Bellator,2 prador MK2’s, 6 ISD, 8 raider corvettes, three quasar carriers, 2 gonzaties, 4 Nebula-B’s, 3 Vindactors and that’s how I would design one of your battle groups.
Grand Admiral Dragon one the nebula b wasn’t an imperial vessel, so it wouldn’t have been considered except by an imperial faction after the battle of endor
The Nebulon b is an imperial ship, however the rebels stole a large number of them. It is therefor possible and probably likely that a large imperial force would contain a number of them.
I personally would make liberal use of Lancer class frigates, the rebel's main strength came from their starfighter units, why the empire never made use of a ship whos whole design was centered around destroying starfighters Ill never know.
Now I Know that the Venator was not used often in the galactic civil war, but I would definitely make use of at least 3 of them, they bring pretty decent firepower and protection from starfighters with the 52 point defence turrets, and they could also bring in at least 600 tie fighters each.
So eckhard leads the whole fleet and you lead one of the battle groups, I‘ll take one of your quasar carrier then
Note about Interdictor Star Destroyers: they may only be used for anti hyperspace retreat but because they are part of the Star Destroyer line of ships they can hold their own fight, they have quad turbo lasers and plenty of ion and laser cannons too it also has a full TIE Squadron on board in its hanger.
While they Do,Indeed have quad Turbolasers,Their firepower pales in comparison to a ISD 1/2 or Tector.
They’re more glass Derringers with Sticky paper.
The second I found out that the rebels made planet fall I would have trained the laser onto the planet with the rebel assuming that the death start wasn't operational. Then as soon as the shield went down I would have waited for the rebel fleet to arrive and use the interdictors to keep them in place and immediately follow up with jumping those other two fleets in a flanking pincer as described in the video. Then as the fleet is held in place I would have blown up endor and everyone on it eliminating leia, solo, and hell even skywalker. I would of also filled the death star to the brim with star fighters so that even approaching the thing would be like going into a hornets nest. then have all three of those fleets start the squeeze on the rebel fleet. the big moral hit the rebels would take in the beginning of the battel would of been overwhelming to a point that the fleet would be in disarray. The biggest mistake of this battel is they had three of the most prominent rebel figures of the time on a moon next to a planet killing weapon that they had no clue was operational and never used it for its intended purpose.
the problem is the shield generator was on endor and the empire and ewoks were peaceful with eachother
to be fair, Palpatine DID order that Endor be destroyed once the shield went down, but the issue was that the Death Star wasn't aimed at Endor in the first place.
however, if the Death Star was aimed at Endor from the start, it wouldn't have a good angle to fire at the Rebel Fleet and would waste precious time re-orienting itself.
Love that you included the Thrawn Pinser. It was a genius tactic!
I find it funny that in a way, I always use the Thrawn pinser when playing EaW...
Even in a RTS game like that it legitimately works great.
Samuel Haines Its Thrawn Pincer and I agree its a huge advantage to pull ships out of hyperspace where you want them. You can basically throw an executor behind enemy lines,in legends thrawn veterans actually learned to do calculations so precise they didnt need an interdictor field and could jump at an error margin of 100m.
Would this even work here? Since it's Thrawns brainchild, would this even be considered at this point in time given that he's in the unknown regions at this time? Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Will Lamar as far as I know you are correct, and I agree. Even Grand Admiral Thrawn did not conceive the Thrawn Pincer until many years later. It seems unfair to use it in this context, especially considering eck specifically tried to ignore meta-knowledge for this video.
Samuel Haines I don't know how it will work in empire at war. when your ship is called into the battle, they always face one direction. You would have to turn the ship, which is extremely slow and painful.
Ecks, If I were Emperor of the Galactic Empire, I'd give you the rank of Grand Admiral. Your good in space warfare.
Zachary Sromalski RIP Eckhartsladder
Only Admiral, because he doesn't make his own strategies he uses thrawn's taktiks
Lol
Yeah but even then it's likely that Thrawn would try to teach him the arts of warfare.
If I was Emperor I would study my enemies while doing my cackle at them. And yes attempt to counter their silly hit and runs like the sacred cowards they are.
I feel that the main problem is by not using the Executor you’re telling Vader he can’t use his flagship in the combat, which might seem odd in the context of chain of command. I guess a solution could be to put Vader solely in control of the ground actions to defend the shield generator.
Vader found it ridiculous that palpatine didn't want him commanding the fleet Vader wanted a portion of the fleet defending Endor while the rest of death squadron would surround and overwhelm the rebels but palpatine wanted to play with luke
First, canon error: they closed with the destroyers to avoid being shot by the death star, not to negate the long range firepower of the imperial fleet
In my opinion, the strength of the rebel fleet rests with its starfighters, and weapon emplacements on ships alone just won't cut it; they are stationary, have restrictive firing lines, and are purely defensive weapons. this is a problem we see with world war 2 naval engagements such as the attack on the bismarck, and I think it applies here. an anti-starfighter laser turret is useless until a starfighter is committed to an attack run, and only if that fighter happens to be approaching in the firing corridor of that turret; otherwise its just a big hunk of shining metal.
Secondly, if the rebel fleet closes with your defensive fleet the capital ships could screen their fighters by simply getting between or destroying the smaller anti-fighter frigates and It's highly likely they would; even if we ignore their choice to not retreat in the movie, rebels have a tendency to fight desperate fights. Additionally, any fighters that do make it past the screen will get quickly out of the range of your defensive frigates. What you really need to counter a starfighter is another starfighter. a starfighter isn't just defensive, its also offensive, and can pursue and attack other starfighters at will.
of the half of the imperial star destroyers you suggest be removed, I would replace as many of them as I could with secutor-class star destoyers. Secutors may lack the capital ship killing capacity of an imp star, but they can still defend themselves and have a light defense screen for starfighters like you suggest. additionally, they carry double the complement of ties a imperial star destroyer does. I would have most of them in the defensive fleet while splitting the rest amongst the two attacking fleets. I would also keep the executor but relegate it to a carrier role unless I could replace it for a tie capacity equivalent of escort carriers (I cant remember their name; they look like flying bricks) since at max capacity it can carry 1,000-1,200 ties.
Most of the fighters would just be TIE/LNs due to supply reasons, but I would want as many of the much more advanced tie defenders , avengers, and larger fighter-bombers like the star wing as I could get my hands on. I would start by deploying fighters and organizing them into 4 primary attack groups, with other ties being organized specifically for defense. attack group 1 would comprise of TIE/LNs, group two of interceptors and any specialty aircraft (defenders, avengers, and star wings) and group 3 would consist mostly of bombers and escort ties. Group 1 would be deployed in the traditional fighter screen method, to block the rebel fighters as they attempt to cross the gap in space to attack the imperial capital ships. Group 2's job would be to intercept any fighters that make it through the screen, and provide fighter defense for the capital ships. group 3 would deploy once the rebel fleets close with the imperial fleets and would engage the rebel's light and medium capital ships.
I might also have the bombers deploy mines early on, but the risk for friendly fire is probably too high
Your strategy basically exemplifies the concept of air power. Doesn’t matter how big the guns are if you can’t hit the thing attacking you.
@@aresthecrazy9335 yes. the sinking of the Yamoto and similar super battleships heavily emphasized the limitations of fixed AA emplacements
What is wrong with the entire plan is that the Empire's TIE fighters alone would have been enough... count them, the real number. The Rebels were outnumbered 20 to 1, and numbers do matter.
6:49 Fewer*
Y’all mind if I notification squad
Jakob Gibbons nah we're good
Team Endered k
I think your strategy is great. Definitely Home One should've been the Death Star's first target, since it's the Rebel flagship, so losing it would've been a blow to the Rebel's morale. One thing that would also make a good strategy would be to build the shield generator and the Death Star on a planet like Jakku. The reason that building the shield generator on a planet with open space rather than in a forested area, is because as demonstrated by the Rebels and Ewoks, the forest just provides them with many places to hide whereas being in a desert or grassland area, makes it possible for the guards to see for kilometres around and a lot harder for the Rebels to sneak upon them. Also, the stormtroopers wearing camouflage instead of bright white would help. The Empire should've invested in Ion Cannons as the Malevolence from The Clone Wars series had. Equip the Executor with them and use them to disable most if not all the Rebel ships in one shot and wipe them out. One serious mistake Palpatine/Darth Sidious made is purposely delaying the completion of the Second Death Star. He could've had it finished and operational by the time the battle started. That and still have the shield generator, but also use holograms to make it look like the Death Star was still under construction. That way at least even with the shield generator destroyed, the Rebels would've been caught by surprise that the Death Star was actually complete, as well as operational and they couldn't destroy it, since the lessons the Empire learned at The Battle of Yavin, was to build the Second Death Star with none of the weaknesses of the first one. This was the reason the Rebels wanted to destroy it, while it was still under construction. That and Palpatine, onboard made it an even more tempting target.
Thrawn suggested to palps to remove the forest around the generator to make it harder to attack but he declined cause he was "setting a trap"
I would also have a Ton of Golan platforms,And maybe put down a few Ion cannons on the surface of the planet.
Imagine this video being seen when _Jedi_ came out, and people would be like: "What's a Thrawn?" xD
You forgot to consider the fact that the big reason the empire lost the battle because their ground forces on endor somehow or in some funny way got rekted by a bunch of freakin’ teddy bears armed with stones, Spears and bows, rigged traps on mech units like the AT-ST walkers, which allowed the remaining rebel forces to deactivate the shield on the Death Star, which in turn was a monumental fuck-up for the empire as the space group did a strike run.
If only the ground units stopped the rebels on Endor then no matter how badass and strong the rebel star fighters were, they wouldn’t last too long against the heavy assault, especially with the Death Star 2 firing on capital rebel ships. I think everything was really riding on the Endor ground battle.
But then again, plot armor if this was TL;DR
In the Legends book Choices of One Thrawn is, briefly, at Endor talking to the Emperor. When asked how he would’ve protected the generator, Thrawn talked about destroying the forest in a 5km radius around the generator. The Emperor told him he wouldn’t because he wanted to create a trap for the Rebels.
It's like watching a documentary about some battle but you can additionally make your own stuff up since it's not really solidly firmly defined how anything should work in fiction. This is pretty interesting
I’m always confused by the fact that the empire didn’t have hundreds of ships defending the Death Star, with their focus on terror one would think having an insurmountable force defending your greatest asset would have played well into their general fear tactics.
Or you could just put.. interdictor technology on the death star itself, so you're not relying on a few light cruisers.
This is amazing hur one thing I would add is get a reasonably flat ship with good shielding and cover the hole the millennium falcon and other x wings flew through with it.
Best transforming fighter:
VF-11 Thunderbolt from Macross Plus vs the Union Flag from Gundam 00 vs the Viking from StarCraft vs the Mecha Tengu from Command and Conquer vs the Legioss from Genesis Climber Mospeda.
All hell the empire *EckshartLadder*
If they did the Empire would be competant and the"Good guys" would lose
Well both sides were incompetent from a tactical perspective. The empire could still be competent and could still lose to a even more competent rebellion.
I wonder how the Rebels would counter such a manouver? Heres what I'd do:
Most starfighters and small ships should attack the fleet protecting the death star with hit and run tactics with the main objective of keeping the death star killers out of harms way and ready to take the superweapon out at a moment's notice. This would force the defence fleet to scatter so as to cover the deathstar, which would make the interdictors an easier target either for the hit-and-run bombers or the main fleet. It might also force the main imperial starfighter force to target the rebel figheters. While we can expect a large loss of fighters from the digfights, I'd expect the rebels to be able to hold out with an advantage.
The main fleet should then target one of the pincer fleets, flying in as close as possible to the larger ships so as to make it hard to target the Mon Calamari cruisers without hitting SDs. The idea would be to target the interdictor(s) as assurance of an escape, using the few remaining stargighters in a cloack and dagger style fight where the battleships take out the shield of the target as well as the protecting corvetes, so that when the way is clear the starfighters can hit the bridge, interdictor field generators, or other vital hard targets, before falling back to their capital ships for another run. Hell, maybe the battle of scariff's tactic of pushing an SD in to another could be used here to take out vital targets.
Assuming the ground battle goes the same way it does in the film, the starfighters would go in, take it out, then circle around the battle towards the main fleet, who will hopefully both be alive and kicking, as well as having taken out as many corvettes and interdictors as possible. The incoming starfighters and corvets would do one final, devastating attack run (to take out any remaining must-kill targets) on their way to the main ship's hangars before the entire fleet would jump out.
Its probably a sloppy tactic with a high body count for both sides, but if the DS with the emperor falls and at least a handful of rebels make it out, they can spark mass uprisings across the galaxy and fight a crumbling empire. The civil war would probably drag on longer than it did in cannon, but at least it wouldnt be a loss.
As for the ground forces on Endor, most likely there is no way to get em' out. However, between the rebel forces and the ewoks plus Luke's suport, they can hold out in a gurilla war for months until either evac, or until the empire falls back because of pressure in other parts of the galaxy.
Thoughts? Recomendations?
EDIT: we can assume that The Force was on the rebel side, and if I remember right Sidious was using battle meditation to help the empire, so his loss would give another advantage to the rebels? May be wrong, but if I'm not then we can assume that many of the big "ifs" in the battlestrategy would work in favor of the rebels right? Just a thought.
Alexander Greyling For the rebellion
Here I thought star wars was anhat fun, you stretched it a long battle strategy to defeat Eckarts, impresive
@@propaganda4708 not sure it would work though is the thing... might be overestimating the power of mon-cal shields and rebel starfighters, and underestimating SD turbolasers
Battle meditation was legends during this battle
Alexander
You are correct about your overestimation. While you MAYBE able to take down one of the interdictors, it is very likely that the MASSIVELY OVERWHELMING pincer forces and their LITERAL SWARM of ties would destroy your main fleet.
The Bellators and SD are extremely powerful. There are reasons why the SDs can still fight with the Mon-cal even though they have lesser shields.
The SDs and the SSDs are known for their absolutely destructive fire power, and they would likely kill the Mon-cal ships faster than the rebels can take down both Interdictors.
The ties in this case, out number the rebel fighters too much. You would have situation where rebels are forced to fight 1 X-wings to 5 ties. So whatever superiority they have against the ties are rendered kinda pointless.
Theres also the fact that the interdictors could just run away while your main fleet get eaten alive by the two pincer fleet and the DS guard fleet.
But the DS would probably still be destroyed. But it also depends on Palpatine and Darth Vader I guess. So that is a no go.
Unless the fighters can make it pass the ties of the DS and the guard fleet itself, the DS is some what safe.
Your strategy is essentially what I thought the Empire should have done. Definitely load up on the Lancer-class frigates, as they are pretty much designed to counter the Rebellion's primary tactic of "throw a ton of starfighters at the problem and hope for the best". (Those Lancers gave me such massive headaches in "X-Wing Alliance"......)
Could the First Order in Star killer base defend themselves from a 318 meter tall godzilla earth? 127th attempt
Godzilla Earth lol.
so basically.
tons of weapons capable of vaporizing everything within hundreds of feet, and all sorts of other powerful weapons.
versus
1 tall slightly armored scaly boi.
FireKTN Money's on the scali boi.
If they have access to Starkiller Base's massive fuck-off laser, the First Order would win. If this situation has Godzilla Earth just on the Starkiller base destroying everything on the planet-sized superweapon, there really is no chance here. G-Earth obliterates.
If Godzilla Earth had a few years preptime he could outright obliterate Starkiller base since he’s destroyed a planet sized meteor before.
I think your battle strategy is more flexible, and I certainly think taking out the Rebel flagship right away is a great opening move. However, I would have brought in a couple or three Imperial carriers to boost fighter strength; ideally, one for each Imperial battle group. This would create more pressure for the Rebel fighter squadrons, and force them to do more defending themselves rather than attacking.