270 Win 127gr Lehigh Controlled Chaos Gel Test (Underwood Ammo)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 8 дек 2021
- Testing the 127 grain Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos bullet in 10% Ballistic Gel from ClearBallistics.com . Lehigh Defense was kind enough to send me these sample bullets and based on my testing and hunting experience with this bullet I absolutely encourage y'all to patron their business! This is the same bullet used in the Underwood Ammo 127gr 270 Winchester ammunition.
Bullets & Load Data available here: www.lehighdefense.com/277-cal...
Bullets for testing were provided by Lehigh Defense and gel for testing was provided by Clear Ballistics.
#lehighdefense #ballisticgeltest 
Наука
Nice job. Love the humor you punched in with the stills. Great content for shooters.
Thank you! Hopefully I have a lot more sample bullets and videos to come! Currently waiting on two new blocks from Clear Ballistics and two molds in the mail.
@@joshuahunt1210 And then are you able to do remelts so you have fresh and clean gel?
@@MikeGorga Yes, both the clear ballistics blocks, and know gelatin blocks are able to be remelted back to their original state. It just takes some time properly cleaning the blocks.
We've been able to take two deer with this bullet this year. My wife took a buck at 287yd and I took a doe at 254yd. Both didn't move from the spot they stood. Meat damage was minimal and performance was consistent. What do you guys think about the 127gr Lehigh Defense? What would you like to see in the future? Do you have any suggestions for future videos? Thanks for watching and don't forget to subscribe!
Do you think these kill better than accubonds?
My go to round for my Tikka T3 Lite Hunter w/ Fluted Stainless Steel.
I have a new 270 Win rifle, and have been looking at non-lead hunting bullets, so this video was perfect for me. Two questions: 1) you mentioned marginal stability with the standard 1:10 twist, what size groups were you getting at 100 yards? 2) On the two deer your wife and you took with minimal meat damage, were you aiming for a heart/double lung shot or high shoulder shot? Thanks.
Hey there David, thanks for the sub and watching. I just uploaded a video to answer your question, but briefly, the "marginal stability" is a technicality for my rifle and mainly displayed for the purposes of understanding terminal performance, not accuracy. As stability decreases terminal performance *may* also decrease. In my opinion the size of the HP in the controlled chaos bullet may give it enough fudge factor for this to not be a limiting factor under 300 yards.
At 100 yards my groups were 1/2" - 5/8" with a muzzle velocity around 3150. I have a 22.5" barrel. My groups are around 2 inches at 250 yards.
We shoot just behind the shoulder, in front of the diaphragm, and middle-high center to save meat and collapse the chest cavity as quickly as possible. It could technically be called a double lung. I try to avoid heart and shoulder shots.
Thank you for your sub and your question! Please let me know if you need anything else!
Great video - testing at hunting range impact velocities, intelligent presentation of data. So refreshing and unfortunately rare on RUclips. Thank you!
Have you tested the 112gr Controlled Chaos? Just for shiggles.
Thank you so much for your encouraging comment. I really appreciate it.
Yes! I have tested the 112gr Controlled Chaos out of my 270 Winchester at various velocities. I've experienced identical results in regard to penetration, petal behavior, and temporary wound stretch. The base of the bullet on the 112gr is nearly the same size as the 127gr however the petals are absolutely smaller. Given my results, I see no performance increase as a result of the higher velocities in the 112gr. This was admittedly surprising to me. I would highly recommend shooting the 127gr at 3100fps as opposed to the 112gr at 3400fps due to the larger petal size of the 127gr and potentially higher wounding effect as a result.
I'll have more tests coming out in the future. Just been busy working with the guys at Limitless Outdoors (you could find them here on RUclips as well) and my time has been very short.
I've tested bullets in organic gel that expanded almost instantly then in clear gel they took about 3-4 inches to expand. Clear gel has a higher elastic strength so I think the bullets push into the gel a few inches before they break the surface tension and expand. Try pushing your finger into the gel and you'll see what I mean
I 100% agree and that's been similar to my experience too. That's why we can see the "temporary stretch" in organic gel and only the "permanent stretch" in synthetic even though both of them are 10% calibrated gel. It's helpful to test using both mediums and come to a flexible conclusion.
I'm seeing this in 7mm-08 and am intrigued. I usually shoot Federal Vitol Shok ballistic tips in 140 grain but I can't find those right now and I need to pick a load for hunting.
I've never used the Controlled Chaos in the 7-08, however after seeing the performance I have in the 127gr & 112gr 270win and 175gr 308 I wouldn't hesitate to use this bullet in other cartridges.
We use the CC bullet in my wife’s 16”bbl 7-08. It’s awesome.
Do you think their advertised 1 in 9 twist is for accuracy or terminal performance? Really looking into my first out of state hunt (whitetails), and these are high on my list of choices but I am concerned with that twist rating.
Hey there Johnsy, and thanks for watching! I'd say the advertised twist is for accuracy. The hollow point on the 127 CC is so large any terminal performance downsides as a result of poor stability is moot. I have no doubt the CC will perform if the accuracy at the ranges you intend to shoot is acceptable. Let me know what you decide to do and how your hunt goes!
I agree that odd behaviour was due to the deformed meplat. Streamlined hollow point bullets are generally very prone to deformation around the nose, including those that have a plastic tip. If they hit even a tiny obstacle during the flight they can fail to expand in the animal and just tumble. It has happened to me. The marginal (gyroscopic) stability factor Sg could be an issue at very close range, say up to 20-30 yards, but it will get better at longer range. It's not constant because the rotational speed does not decrease as fast as the translational speed. It represents the ability of the bullet to overcome any change of its rotation axis. The other reason why the bullet Sg should be 1.5 is that the bullet has more drag until it reaches such value but I don't think it's a big deal for normal hunting ranges. Then there is the dynamic stability factor Sd but this becomes only relevant for very long range, typically beyond 500-600 yards. Not my cup opf tea anyway. I like this Lehigh bullet because it fragments. Non fragmenting bullets rely too much on impact speed.
I really appreciate your input. I didn't really think the marginal stability could be an issue at very close range, but I could see how it would be an issue at longer ranges. These bullets have performed admirably for me on deer. If I was looking to shoot past 300 yards on deer I'd probably reach for 130gr Berger Classic Hunters. I put in for Wyoming pronghorn this year. If I get drawn I'll likely carry the Berger's.
@@joshuahunt1210 Most old African calibers overstabilize their heavy round nose or flat nose bullets precisely because they were meant to be used at close distance. It's not uncommon that the gyroscopic stability factor (Sg) results in the range between 2 and 3. At longer distance as the translational velocity decreases faster than the rotational velocity, the initial stability factor increases and so it can be a bit less than the ususal 1.5 at the muzzle for normal applications (say between 50 and 350 yards). The bullet is unstable only if the Sg is 1 or less. A classical example of Sg around 1.2 that works great is the 55 gr spitzer with flat base in .222 Rem with 1: 14" twist when used for varmint. An overstabilized bullet will travel more "nose-up" and this can be a problem at longer ranges than usual. The direction on impact will have an influence on how the bullet starts to release energy in the target. The rule of thumb, for general hunting, is a stability factor between 1.4 and 2. Once the bullet hits the target its shape and deformation/exapansion will determine the travel and wound cavity.
You're right those great. How far away did you shoot it from?
Thanks for watching! The first two were 75 yards and the last was at 100 yards. But keep in mind the velocity is what matters more than my distance. I could load most bullets over a weak charge of Trail Boss, IMR 4227, 700-X, H4895 or Accurage 5744 and simulate a 250 - 600 yard shot. A part 2 video of this 127gr-CC is in order in the future.
@@joshuahunt1210 i was just asking because those numbers didn't look like muzzle velocity.
So i figured they were down range a little bit too get impact velocity
@@AlaskanBallistics Yep, I backed out to 100 yards and used a starting charge of Ramshot Hunter for the last shot. I did make a phone call to Barnes and I now have a recipe to safely lower the velocity even further for my next test. 😁
These seem similar to Hammer bullets except I believe the Hammers have a higher BC. Killed 4 deer this year with the Hammers. Great bullet! Love your video!
For some reason the link you provided comes back with an error code. Can you give me the load data for this round. Like which powder and how much to get 3150fps. What kind of accuracy were you getting.
Hey Dennis sorry for not getting back to you sooner! Lehigh Defense changed their website recently so that's probably why their link doesn't work. I was using 58gr Ramshot Hunter (Published data is MAX 57gr), Winchester WLR primers, R-P Brass, ~3150fps and my accuracy was about 1/2-3/4" at 100. My rifle is a Tikka T3x 270Winchester with a 22.5" barrel.
Here is the Lehigh published data:
Accurate MAGPRO 60.0 3,040 64.0 3,150
Accurate 4350 50.0 2,795 54.0 3,125
Reloader 19 54.0 2,875 58.0 3,130
Winchester 760 50.0 2,890 53.0 3,075
Hodgdon 4831 SC 56.0 2,910 59.0 3,060
Ramshot Hunter 53.0 2,905 57.0 3,110
Hybrid 100V 51.0 2,935 54.0 3,085
Accurate 5744 (Reduced Recoil) 31.5 2,505 35.0 2,710
You could find more Lehigh data by following this new link: lehighdefense.com/ld-load-data
I don’t believe Barnes or Hornady when they say how low of velocity they’re copper bullets expand. My opinion on those is 2000 is passable, 2200 is safe. These you tested seem more legitimate in that regard. I’d also be curious to see how Normas new lead free offerings stack up in this regard. They are supposedly constructed to perform more like the Lehighs. They group well in my 308, and I’m anxious to see some unbiased gel testing.
Per my conversations with both Hornady and Barnes they both told me to expect "expansion" to 1800fps. Mind you expansion at that velocity is going to be minimal at best due to the design of their copper bullets. I would trust the Lehigh Defense bullets to expand down to ~1500-1600 based on my testing which is good for low recoil loads but not for ranges past 400 since their B.C. is average. I was not aware of the Norma Ecostrike until just now. According to Norma's website it is a monolithic bullet which appears to be in the same vein as the Barnes T-TSX. It will hold together and mushroom similar to a Barnes. The expansion displayed on their website was achieved at 800 m/s or 2624fps. They don't sell it as a reloading component but I would absolutely be open to testing them if I could get ahold of them somehow! Thank you for watching.
Check out the Evostrike, not Ecostrike. Different composition than the traditional all copper construction. I can’t believe I just called all copper “traditional” lol.
@@phild9813 Oooooooo I just looked at the infomercial for it! Yes! This has fantastic potential!
Yes I shoot every chance I get some times 3 times a week I'm out shooting
Awesome! Keep shooting!
What about twist rates and reloading data in the .270win
You're saying for the 127gr Controlled Chaos? It's published on the Lehigh Defense website. Mike at Lehigh Defense used a 1:10 twist 22" Savage 110 when he did his testing for that data.
The powder of choice I personally use in the 270 Winchester is Ramshot Hunter with any 130gr-150gr bullet. Lehigh's data using Hunter is starting charge of 53gr, velocity 2,905fps | MAX charge of 57gr, velocity 3,110fps. I personally went to 58gr using R-P brass but only picked up 40fps so I backed off to 57gr for my personal load. I didn't have pressure issues with my Tikka or Savage 270win at those charges. It just wasn't worth 40fps to go 1gr over charge especially if I may be shooting in hot weather.
I've never had a problem with Ramshot Hunter reaching the following velocities in any 22" 270 Winchester rifle I've tested in: 130gr - 3100fps, 140gr - 3000fps, 150gr - 2900fps
Mike used Winchester cases. I used Remington R-P cases before switching to Peterson Brass. More data is available on the website if you scroll straight to the bottom and click "load data." If you need help go ahead and post here or better yet, call Lehigh Defense. Another trick for any monolithic bullets is to use Barnes data. I can't stress enough with Barnes data is to start low and work your way up. Be careful with Barnes data because it's *very* optimistic and you could reach pressure signs way before Barnes' stated MAX charge no matter if you use Barnes bullets or Lehigh bullets.
Hopefully this helps. Stay safe, David!
@@joshuahunt1210 hi Joshua thanks for information on that I can get ram shot hunter here in Scotland so it's on my list to get I am making enquiries about the bullets at the moment I appreciate you sending me the loads you are using so once again thank you kind regards David
Why don't a 65 grain belong in a 22-250? Then what does?
I love a 65gr bullet in a 22-250! I killed my first deer with a 22-250 and 65gr Sierra Gameking. The only problem is most 22-250's are built with a slow twist making it difficult to stabilize a bullet over 55gr. A 1:9 or 1:8 twist 22-250 would be superb however!
@@joshuahunt1210Nice, pretty cool
I don’t think I’m a fan when normal 1/10 twist won’t stabilize it! I’ll use a Barnes X over it and know I’ll be bringing home the game. In a huge fan of the 140 X boat tail in any of the X bullet variations. As far as not opening up at low velocity they fixed those issues 20 plus years ago. I won’t be a player of this bullet unless they fix the stability issues.
I understand. Practically it "stabilizes" in that it shoots well. I would only worry about it's stabilization at longer distances. My wife used this bullet to take a nice buck at 287 yards so it clearly shoots well. If you are very concerned for stabilization but still want to use the CC bullet they also have a 112gr Controlled Chaos. Lehigh doesn't have published load data for it so I used the Barnes 110gr data when working up my 112gr load. Still... I wonder why Lehigh didn't use a 123 or 125gr bullet instead of the 127gr. The only reason we're reaching stabilization issues is the length... Thanks for watching!