270 Win 117gr Hammer Hunter Gel Test
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2021
- Testing the 117 grain Hammer Hunter using the 270 Winchester.
Blocks are calibrated by 10% FBI Ordinance Gel standards and tested using a BB test. Clear Ballistics blocks are provided by ClearBallistics.com.
You could purchase these 117gr Hammer Hunter Bullets here: hammerbullets.com/product/277...
The Hammer Time forum is located here:
hammerbullets.boards.net/
You could view more testing of the Hammer line of bullets by checking out Boondoogle Bullet testing's channel here: / @boondooglebullettesti... 
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What do you guys think of the Hammer Bullets? What do you think I should test next? If you dislike the video please let me know why! Let me know in the comments below and hit the subscribe button so I know I should make more videos in the future! Thank you!
I would really like to see the absolute hammer bullet. One bullet in particular the 116 grain absolute hammer bullet for the 270 Winchester. They claim it has a smaller bearing surface which reduces the chamber pressures but requires faster burning powders for the cartridge. Thus creating a extremely high velocity but safe long range hunting bullet. Then compare it to the 117 grain please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@jordanhays732 Hmm... I have a few sitting here too.....
110gr maker trex looks better than the hammer does
I really like the 270 win tests you are doing. Thanks for the great and informative video.
Thank you so much!
I have done a durability test on some different bullets. I wasn't concerned with penetration or speed, just testing durability alone. I took a 4cu box and filled it with dirt. Shot each bullet separately, sifted through the dirt and recovered them.
Federal Fusion stayed together and mushroomed beautifully.
Deer Season xp completely flew apart and fragmented.
Hornady American Whitetail held together shedding some petals and retaining most of it's weight.
I like bullets that hold together and can create a great exit wound.
Same, hitting internal organs and causing an exit wound is the goal. The more a bullet stays together the better chance you have of causing a critical wound if you hit a rib or shoulder bone. Fragmenting ammo might look and sound cool but all it's doing is unpredictably shedding energy in the animal at most likely non critical penetration levels. Especially on big game, I would never trust a round like this. Might look cool to blow a deer's should up but it can run away on three legs and even if it dies it's just a bunch of wasted meat.
Thank you for watching! I couldn't say I would ever test bullets in that way but I'm sure you got the results you wanted! I think the best way to durability test bullets is going to be 10% or 20% ordinance gel because animals aren't made out of dirt, wood, metal, sheetrock, or rocks. 🤣
@@joshuahunt1210 agreed, animal's aren't made of dirt. However, if a bullet holds together in a more challenging medium, what conclusion is obvious. If I hit a shoulder bone on a Moose or Elk the reliability of expansion is almost guaranteed. It will continue to penetrate into the vitals and accomplish the goal it was intended for.
If all u want is durability look no further than triple shock x non tipped and or partition period
I've looked at the hammers for a long time, I've used the Lehigh defense controlled chaos 127 grain out of my 270 on two different hunts a cow elk at 465 yards and a mule deer buck at 400 yards great performance from another copper bullet where the front end fragments. I just ran out of my Lehigh defense bullets so I might be loading up some hammers soon.
Awesome! I just tested the 127 grain in a 270. Look out for that video soon. I just need to edit it. Needless to say I'm very impressed with the Lehigh bullet's performance. It compares similarly to the Hammer in penetration, but the method of expansion and size of the pedals is slightly different.
I'd like to see some slower testing. They seem to work just fine in the 2700 plus fps. Lets see some 2100 down to 1800fps. And if 1800fps looks fine, go down to 1600.
Sorry it took me a minute to get back to you. I agree with you, and I spoke with the manufacturer about my idea. They told me the problem with slowing down the bullet further is that it would change the stability factor so the bullet would not perform properly. The only way to properly slow the bullet down and retain stability factor in their words is to shoot at a much longer range. In this case I would need to shoot the bullet at ~600 yards to test at 1800fps.
Why would you even be interested in the bullet moving slower than the factory loads ?
@@riclindsey329 because we don't shoot animals at the muzzle. Impact velocities are slower. What it does at 20ft is largely irrelevant.
@@riclindsey329 It gives an idea of downrange performance rather than near to the muzzle.
Hammer Bullets are great. Great company with super owners who will help you tune your loads. Definitely on pricey side but will perform on game and max your hand loads. Thanks. Interesting video.
Agreed on all points! Thank you for watching and stay tuned! I have some Lehigh Defense bullets I just tested as well as more Hammer!
id say after many years of hunting keep your shots inside 300 yards and you will save yourself and the animal alot of headaches
Hear, hear
Truth. I've culled depredation deer past 300 and it tends to be a headache.....
@@joshuahunt1210 sage advice! Too many hunters use the long distance kill shots as a form of dick-measuring...resulting in animals maimed and/or dying lingering deaths.
Great vid. Just picked up some 181’s for my 300 WSM. Shoot well. Will test them on some meat soon. 😉
Awesome! I know a guy who shoots the 137 in his 300WM apparently! The philosophy of Hammer Bullets is "speed kills" so they recommend driving the lightest bullet you can the fastest you can... but call Steve up for his recommendation! His number is on the website and he's very helpful!
@@joshuahunt1210 ended up taking my buck on opening day. DRT. Liking the HH’s so far
@@Just_Samson Congrats!
@@joshuahunt1210 Thanks
I don't think the lead from a bullet is throughout the animal, in the wound channel yes, but that gets cleaned out when you get the animal home and prep it for hanging. There SHOULD be very little if any left in the meat.
I understand what you're saying Phil and I agree with you up to a point. However, I've tested a bunch of bullets in ballistics gel before these videos and sometimes the lead I've found throughout the gel block is unreal. Just make sure when you're cleaning your game you make a wide cut around your bloodshot meat and you'll be good!
That’s actually not true. CDC and European studies have found lead fragments up to 8 inches away from the initial wound.
Be honest with you they shoot very accurate, the bullets fragment unlike the Barnes and a number of hunter has complained about the bullet “yawling “ out of the game that’s been shot. I heard of Hunter shooting an elk with quartering away shot and the bullet travel 8 to 10 inch in the game then “yawls” out the top of the animal.
Imo these would provide the "shock" effect or reaction from say using an SST or the like. Very interested in these, thank you for providing this.
Just need to get into reloading
Thank you for watching! I have some SST's I plan to test in the future as well.
Negative , this does not produce like a ballistic tip at all
Maybe you can do a direct head to head comparison with Hammer, Lehigh and Cutting edge bullets. We bullet folks love comparison videos of similar products 😝
Not a bad idea! I just tested the Lehigh 127 and 112 bullets so look for a new video very soon. Both Hammer and Lehigh are very effective at what they do with Lehigh shedding larger pedals and Hammer shedding more pedals. Both Steve (Hammer) and Mike (Lehigh) are standup guys who support what I plan to do here and I wouldn't hesitate to buy whichever one shoots better in your gun. I haven't spoken with Cutting Edge yet but I'm open to testing. Just need the $$$ to buy more bullets! :D
@@joshuahunt1210 thanks for the reply. Cutting edge bullets just had a 20% off on all bullets sale. I wish I had seen your reply sooner. My bad
@@hikenmikes8262 Bummer! Lehigh also had a 20% sale recently. I did reach out to Cutting Edge for some sample bullets for testing but they wanted to see more subscribers to the channel first. Both Lehigh and Hammer sent me bullets to gel test. I just published a 127gr Lehigh test and look for more tests coming.
@@joshuahunt1210 that’s disappointing to hear about cutting edge bullets. Apparently, we little guys aren’t important enough to them
@@hikenmikes8262 It is disappointing, but I don't entirely blame them. Their bullets are expensive and during this time of high demand I'm not so sure if they would be excited to send bullets out to just anybody. After I gain more subscribers I'll reach out to them again. Besides, I have plenty of samples here to test from various other manufacturers. Overall the vast majority of manufacturers I've spoken with have been more than helpful, with certain ones on the top of the heap. The techs at Sierra and Nosler were even kind enough to go over their testing protocols with me, which is how I glean my insight from these gel blocks. It might take some time for Cutting Edge to warm up but hopefully I'll be able to present some good information and they'll see the value of that in the future. Thanks so much for watching and please continue to subscribe/watch.
I do have some samples from Barnes & Hornady GMX I'll be testing in the future. I think a comparison video (like you suggested) between Hammer, Lehigh, and Barnes/Hornady (both similar performance) could be in order in the future. Those are three versions of copper bullets and three different philosophies of terminal performance which I think you might find interesting!
i have the 159 hammer bullets for the 8x57 but havent had a chance to try them on game yet
Do it and post your results! I shot one of my first deer with an 8x57 soft point and it was mighty effective.
Hi, I know it's an old video but I would like to see you test a 150gr nosler accu bond long range, in the .270win. As far as lead core bullets if you shoot a bonded lead core it won't fragment, retaining nearly 95% weight or more.
You got it. I have a pack of 150gr Nosler Accubond LR sitting on my desk here I could use for testing. I had several personal life circumstances which made filming these gel tests go to the backburner but I will put out more testing videos once the weather warms up. That being said, when I called Nosler in preparation for my Accubond LR testing they told me specifically that their LR Accubond bullets are designed for long range (400-800 yards) and they will likely fragment and explode at ranges less than 300 yards.
Even though the Accubond LR are bonded, they were never designed to hold together at velocities over 2200fps like the traditional Nosler Accubond. (That being said, I'm sure it'll kill anything dead as a doornail at short to medium range. You'll just have a lot of bloodshot and potentially no pass through.)
I would like to see what this bullet would react in gel at 6.8 SPC 300 yard velocity (approx. 1850 fps).
I'd like to see the impact at 2,000 f/s, great videos
Thank you! The 117gr Hammer definitely needs more testing.
If you're being honest with all this I think it would bring a whole new light to the 6.8 SPC, which is already a fantastic round.
Years ago when I did a lot of hunting we would take whatever cartridge and a coping saw and cut an X In the round, Squirrel hunting with a 22 long rifle we used to use a razor blade to split the lead, That was before the days of all the New fancy hollow point stuff
This bullet weight is best used by the 257 Weatherby, you hear! The optimal weight for the 270 is in-between 130 - 150 grain with nosler partition bullets.
No disagreements here in regard to traditional bullets. But when we're talking monolithic I like to err on the side of lighter.
id like to see 1800 to 2000 fps into the block maybe even 1300 to 1500 fps or anything below 1800 fps to see how it preforms
Would you mind loading up a batch to simulate that 600 yard velocity? Make a light load to have 1800 fps at impact.
I plan to. Getting over this knee surgery has made scheduling videos difficult. But thankfully, after several months I'm finally able to walk and I should be able to start extremely soon.
I cannot wait to be testing the 6.5 SE 100gr copper bullets @ 3260fps . Fallow deer in the freezer
I would really like to see the absolute hammer bullet. One bullet in particular the 116 grain absolute hammer bullet for the 270 Winchester. They claim it has a smaller bearing surface which reduces the chamber pressures but requires faster burning powders for the cartridge. Thus creating a extremely high velocity but safe long range hunting bullet. Then compare it to the 117 grain please please please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ever considered asking a meat / game processor for a view of the performance of bullets on actual flesh?
That's a great thought! I actually process my own game, never used a processor, so I have been able to see first hand how the performance stacks up. I make it a point to shoot several different bullets each year so I could study their performance but of course I can't do it alone! I was thinking about requesting viewers like yourself to photograph the game they kill with various bullets so I could start compiling a wide database of information.
I really need to get me a .277 Cal....
Do it! I've shot so many different rifles and by far my 270win is my favorite. Mild recoil, kills efficiently, and doesn't disappear from the shelves nearly as fast as the 308/6.5/7mm stuff.
Lead will pass through the human body without absorption but lead oxide will absorbed into the body and cause problems with lead poisoning.
It would be interesting to see how they hold up to wsm velocity.
Guys are shooting these things at 4500fps. Faster is better.
@@z987k But faster isn't necessary. It's really not, I'm not sure why it's turning into an arms race. People are getting emphatic kills on all game sizes with "normal" speeds and spending less time and barrel life and powder doing it. Raymond, to answer your question they perform well. I've talked to a few people who've shot game with less aggressive saum/wsm setups (moderate velocity/long for caliber) and they do their job very well. Steve tends to make a variety of weights for different preferences. Just in the 7 SAUM/wsm range he recommends as light as 110 or as heavy as 155 on elk, but I spoke to a guy who shot several elk with a 172 grain 7mm saum and had great results at lower velocity with less than perfect hits. Steve himself often reports on a 300 WM with 150-180 grain bullets, normal weights with some increase in velocity via design. The speed of light isn't required.
@@jcarry5214 Hit the nail on the head. I do know Steve was telling me to drive his bullets as fast as possible but I tend to feel there's a sweet spot we should aim for.
Obviously these bullets dont perform better at wsm speeds as you can see in the test
@@joshuahunt1210 every single different bullet design has its sweet spot ! Maximum overdrive limit speed for every bullet is in most cases worse performance from either pin holeing to blowing up on impact
Interesting. I hunted last season with these in 243. I shot about 50 hinds. From a killing point they were perfect.
One animal in particular is memorable. I went to pull her over and the of side shoulder/leg detatched from the rest of the carcass.
I emailed hammer and was told that those are the results to expect.
Awsome bullets at what they do but be warned they can be super destructive.
Thanks for the info! That's absolutely wild. Hopefully the meat was still good!
@@joshuahunt1210 sory mate couldn't tell you. I cull for money. We call it "a contractor" here. The meat went off to the game dealer who processed it down and sells it on. I get paid a day rate and a flat £1.20 per kg regardless.
@@johnventers5128 Man I wish. That sounds like a great job. The meat from my culling was directly donated because it was illegal to sell it. I could have made some good money. Good shooting!
Hammer is using an overly hard copper alloy I think. I've been using Maker bullets and they don't fragment like the Hammers. If the Makers don't hit bone you'll have all three petals still attached and perfectly pealed back for a tremendous frontal area.
If you asked Steve @ Hammer he'd tell you they use an extremely soft alloy copper. I think part of the reason Hammers shed like they do is because of that very small hollow point and nose shape. I've never used Makers bullets though. I'd be interested in trying some day!
They specifically designed them to shed the tip and become a wad cutter surrounded by shrapnel, not become a mushroom. It wasn't an accident, they didn't want a mushroom.
what do you think the results will be at 200yds
I truly believe the results would have been very similar. I shot this bullet about 10 times at various loadings and distances into the gel and it was consistent shot to shot. Thanks for watching!
If you want to shoot elk thats fine. Deer are only 16" thick. SST's are what you want for deer. My 308 with 150s blow up quick, if you hit bone even better.
The Hornady 150gr SST is a tremendous bullet in the 308win. Couldn't recommend it more to the eastern hunter!
For the price they're charging I see them turning into another Lost River. Great bullets with potential but the same can be had for less money.
They are crazy expensive! The marketing though is spot on. ;)
They're a lot cheaper than partitions, Accubonds, or Terminal Ascent, and they're more accurate than Hornady or Barnes. I'm pretty broke but I'm never too broke to use the best when taking an animal. Just me though.
A lower speed would be interesting
I agree but according to Steve at Hammer, if I drive it at a lower speed using my 1:10 270win the bullet won't stabilize properly to expand efficiently. I'd have to shoot at a higher speed and place the target further.... perhaps I will. I could place it at 300 someday, lower the velocity just enough.... and simulate a further shot. Hmmmmmmmmmm.......
Test the maker bullet
Never even thought about it. I'll reach out to Maker and see what they say! Thank you for the suggestion!
Update: Spoke with Maker bullets and we may see some bullets for testing come Mid August-Early September.
Monolithics need velocity to expand. I don’t believe 1800 ft./s is enough for proper expansion, from my experience. Barnes touts the same speed with their LRX, but I keep it at 2400 ft./s. So with their 129 grain LRX in 270 Win, I keep it to 350 yards with a MV of 3080 ft./s. I expect the tipped LRX expands better than the Hammer HP design. This is why the Nosler and Hornady designs also have tipped bullets.
Hammer's philosophy is not the same as other mono copper manufacturers. They skip the plastic tip because they chase velocity through lower bore friction over BC. As the owner states " a jump in velocity is the same as a giant leap in BC." Their designs have been showing to FRAGMENT reliably down below 2000fps. Fragment, not expand, that's another major difference with them. They look for soft copper alloys that specifically allow them to dump about 30% of mass to have a shredding pattern of flakes AND a flat cylinder both traveling through the tissue. They find the flat-tipped cylinder to cause more cavitation, cut straighter and penetrate farther, while the petals from the nose usually create around a 3" wide tunnel of destruction on their own. The above results are not what they usually get and not what they design for, they aim to get 3-5 petals not a pile of flakes. This means they're large enough that they often pass completely through large game too. The owner has tested low velocity hits on American and African game and is getting reliable results on light and heavy game. Their customers have compiled a lot of data on their own too and soundly verify his results. Basically almost any of their bullets tend to perform the same down to 1800 on almost any sized game. Coyote through elk and beyond. Even without a plastic tip. The hammer website forum and the long range hunting forum both contain a lot of info and anecdotes about these bullets. Barnes has proven to be deceitful about performance at every velocity regardless of tip design, icepicking regularly at very reasonable ranges. Their alloys can be way too hard, accuracy can waver a lot, they generate higher pressure and barrel heat (hammer does less of both than lead) and their weight retention philosophy is just not for most hunters or most game. The same is generally true to a lesser extent with the e-tip and gmx. Comparing hammers to these or expecting similar performance is misguided and I'd encourage you to read about hammers. I'm not saying they're perfect, but they are definitely intended to be a departure from what everyone else assumes is the correct performance of copper bullets. They set out to design a bullet that kills better than lead with less meat loss, where most monos were designed to be easy to mass produce and they set about convincing us that the other side effects were positives and not compromises, like total weight retention.
Anyway, I think their efforts are really interesting, just wanted to share that. These bullets are not trying to drive the same road as Barnes at all, and I think that's great news for hunters and game.
I hear what your saying Frank, but just as Carry mentioned here Hammer apparently uses very soft copper to attain consistent results even at range. Feels "wrong" but they've proven their bullets out to 700. Check out the Hammer Time forum to find out more!
@@joshuahunt1210 - I totally get what you’re saying about the copper being softer, but if it were that simple, the other manufacturers would be doing the same (Hornady and Nosler) for better expansion.
I started reloading the TSX several years back, and when Barnes added the tip to the TTSX (same copper alloy), the expansion improved. Then with the longer and pointier LRX, expansion also improved. According to tech support at Barnes, it’s the same copper alloy in all bullets.
So I believe the tip compensates for the composition of the alloy, more than you’d think.
Field Sports Channel did an excellent test on copper ammo several months back. And when you look at the results of several types of copper ammo at 100 and 200 yards you can see where you have less expansion as velocity drops.
At long distances with a shoulder shot monolithics will expand if they hit bone, but a shot in the boiler room typically does not have enough expansion.
I’m not saying Hammer doesn’t make a good bullet, I’m just not buying that 1800 ft./s. expansion.
Btw, I also reload GMX’s and E-Tips, for 6 different calibers. Same results.
Thanks for your videos. Much appreciated.
@@falba1492 Thanks for the insight! I'm not sure what Hammer's alloy is like, that's just what the owner of Hammer told me when it came to their bullet composition. I'll look at doing some longer range testing in the future.
1800 FPS is the minimum to get controlled expansion on 99% of em
I guess I am missing something because I don't know why you would want to use that light a bullet in a .270. If velocity is the only thing you are looking for why not shoot those little bullets out of a 7mm mag. or something. An explosive expansion upon impact is not really what I want in a big game bullet. Give me something with some mass and a good sectional density for penetration. A 225 grain Sierra boat tail from a .35 Whelen at 2800 fps is my idea of a good big game round. 225 grains of mass, 35 caliber cross section, and about the ideal velocity. Mass can help with maintained downrange velocity in the absence of a high bc and because of the .35 cal. diameter the bullet enters the animal at a diameter the .270 may reach only after expansion and 2800 fps is just right to help lower meat loss.
The reasoning for shooting a light bullet at high velocity only applies to hard monolithic bullets (ie bullets made out of copper). The traditional reason being that copper bullets require higher velocity to properly expand within the chest cavity of game. I wouldn't recommend shooting a light lead bullet, like the 110gr V-Max, at big game because it would just explode on impact. I have been able to use both the Hammer Hunter line of bullets and the Lehigh Defense line of bullets on deer and I could say the results with both were impressive. Compared to the lead bullets I usually prefer (Hornady Interlock or Speer Hotcor) both the Hammer and Lehigh bullets wasted less meat with less bloodshot in my personal experience. Thank you for watching!
225 at those speeds is hot rodding the whelen so I don’t see your point
@@reddawng43x91 I guess you don't understand the velocity and mass relationship, 2800 fps from a .35 Whelen is not hot rodding it is reaching mag. ballistics with a much more efficient load.
@@reddawng43x91 Not even close to a max. load and the point is velocity and mass.
Varmints.
I think ill stick with 223rem and heavy match bullets on game compared to those results.
Try a chart with a trued b.c. value rather than hammer's out to lunch "estimated" b.c. values. Then find the speed that they fail to expand. Youll see that in the real world that chart is way too optimistic.
If you're using the 223 I'd highly recommend the Speer 70gr Varmint or Sierra 63gr Gameking soft point bullets. They work amazing well.
Even though these bullets have the energy to kill at 675 yards I would hope the hunter wouldn't have to shoot at an animal at that distance. I can find a place to shoot that far but it's probably not the place I'll find the game.
I can't disagree with you there! I would hope somebody could close the distance to at least 300 yards! Thank you for watching!
Just why in the world are you concerned with temporary stretch. Temporary stretch is very rarely indicative of taking an animal down. Permanent wound cavity is the only criteria device that permanent stretch occurs in a brain cavity or right at the heart. Temporary one cavity is greater with rifles than with pistols. Which is why with pistols permanent won't have any is the only criteria by which you can judge the effectiveness of a pistol bullet. Which is also why the FBI keeps falling on their face every time they try and explain why a 9 mm is as effective as a 40 Smith or a 45 or 357 Sig AR 357 Magnum. It just is not so. It is cheaper to shoot and it's easier to teach these wimps how to shoot a nine-millimeter than it is to shoot a cartridge that will actually take a greater effect of at least 20% when it hits. I've even read in there where they say they can't tell the difference between the permanent wound cavity of a 9 mm against the 40 Smith and 45 and that is abject bulshit.
I happen to like this round this Hammer round and the way attacks specific cases. I still think that if you can get the pedals to open up and stay at their maximum opening the longest you have the best overall cartridge. Remember that there are animals that just because that thing fragments is still the fragments do not penetrate enough to actually damage internal tissue and then you're depending only on the base of the bullet to do enough damage to bring the animal down. Not allowing those pedals to fold all the way back is an interesting physics dilemma.
The temporary stretch gives us an idea of what's happening throughout the animal's body when we shoot it. Take a rock and throw it in a pond then watch the ripples. If that rock is big enough those ripples will effect not only the location the rock was thrown into the water but also the shoreline. That's the temporary stretch and it matters.
Garbage…GMX, TTSX, E TIP, trophy copper all superior
Fair enough. I feel it depends on the caliber size. We're trying to reach a larger wounding area and sometimes to do so with smaller cartridges (6.5 and smaller) we need a shedding / fragmenting bullet in my opinion. As always, shot placement is critical.
The Hammer looks like the Barnes TTS with a larger hole
Barnes is NOT going to fragment like this… not impressed with these results
I've tested the Barnes TTS and TTSX in ballistic gel. The Barnes does not shed it's pedals like this. The Barnes will generally remain attached as one unit, however I have had the Barnes detach completely. Usually the pedals which separate from the Barnes clump together like a "ring" of pedals. When the Barnes fails it does so spectacularly. I've had the Barnes "fail" a few times in 223, and 270 but never in the 308. I believe there is an impact sweet spot for the Barnes to perform well. If it impacts over 3000fps you could expect failure 50% of the time in my testing experience. Thank you for watching the video!
@@joshuahunt1210 Never heard the 3000 fps failure before but I bet that was exactly why I had an issue. Gun was switched to Hammers in 2018 and have been beyond pleased with them. Enough so that I recently moved two more rifles to Hammers. The one it took me exactly five shots to build the load and zero my scope. The other took about 15 rounds because the first powder wasn't getting desired FPS. That one is going on an elk hunt next week.
@@denniswilliams2098 Sweet shooting! Yea, I've been able to duplicate that failure with Barnes in a couple different cartridges. That was before I started filming the gel testing but when I decide to gel test the Barnes hopefully I could duplicate the issue again for you guys! Good hunting, let me know how it goes!
@@joshuahunt1210 Were the failures in water? Water is too dense so it will over expand bullets which will cause some rounds to fail/shed petals where gel/flesh wouldn't.
Fragmenting hunting ammo makes no sense. Fragmenting ammo in personal defense pistol rounds is one thing since you're trying to get the quickest incapacitation out of a low energy load as possible but hunting is a totally different game. If it takes an animal 15 seconds to die when you're hunting, it's not fun but it's usually not a big deal, that deer isn't going to go kill you in that 15 second before it dies. The objective is to hit internal organs to cause a fatal wound, and create an exit wound to facilitate the animal bleeding out. There's just no way these people can make a round reliably fragment in the internal organs of an animal at different ranges/velocities and different animal sizes. Then if you hit a bone you're left with a tiny, light, slug that shed most of it's energy while blowing up a shoulder or rib bone and doing almost no critical damage to internal organs. I would much rather have a bullet that sticks together and reliably creates a large permanent wound cavity and exit wound than some magical 3 legged deer making bullet.
Also, copper is toxic to eat too, so don't go eating the damaged meat either way.
Thank you for watching the video and your opinion! I think it depends on the size of the shed material. If it's small bits from the bullet and the entire bullet breaks apart with no base then I agree with you, fragmenting does little good. If it's larger pieces and the bullet retains a sizeable base, then those pieces will actually create secondary wound channels and the base will do the lions share. I've experienced this first hand and the deer was dead where it stood. Hope you come back to see the next video!
Omg you are so wrong on so many levels! Literally everything you said is completely wrong it’s hard to believe. I’ll bet you think the smallest round that can kill a deer is 30-06 and you bought a dually truck because you might have to get like 2 yards of mulch at some point, but only if it’s a Chevy 😂. Go hunt in the woods, basement YouTubing did you a disservice.
@@viktoropalko1990 Saying I'm wrong doesn't make you right. I have killed a deer with a .30 Carbine, it died quickly but I wouldn't recommend it as a hunting load. If you want to act like you know what you're talking about, refute what I said instead of making baseless accusations.
@@joshuahunt1210 Well the deer dying where it stands happens with high energy, regardless of bullet fragmentation, I have had the same thing happen with plane ole CoreLokt. It would be great if fragmenting ammo could actually provide secondary wound channels that matter, but there are too many variables at play. Velocity, fragmentation size, hitting bone not, all makes huge changes to the bullet performance.
@@bobbygetsbanned6049 I'd look to the Lehigh Defense controlled chaos line for secondary wound channels that matter. (Much larger fragments) Otherwise I completely agree.
Hammer bullets concept is all wrong will never use
They are certainly for particular people and even after all the testing and killing deer with them they admittedly still make me nervous. My greatest concern with them is the diameter of the nose, however it appears they've remedied that in their newest line of bullets in which they widened the nose. I have yet to test them.
@@joshuahunt1210 TSX is the only way to go with all copper
They are copied from lehigh cc nothing new here.
Not an exact copy. The Lehigh bullets have a shear line through the center of the bullet forcing pedal disconnection. The Hammer bullets rely on softer alloy to fragment into much smaller particles. The wounding effect is different with the Hammers having dozens of small particles hemorrhaging the tissue and the Lehigh's having 4-5 .22 caliber sized petals exiting the body. With the Hammers I'll see one entrance and one exit. With the Lehighs I usually see One entrance and 3-5 exits. I've seen more blood loss with the Hammers but faster kills with the Lehigh's.