Hey everyone! FPC here. Thank you so much for all of your attention on our prototype update video - we appreciate how many of you are interested in our development journey! We’ve seen a lot of excitement and appreciation for our transparent approach to development since we released the video, which is gratifying. We’ve also seen a lot of questions and some concerns about instancing and our art style. So we set aside our last podcast episode of the year specifically to answer your questions. That’s happening next Tuesday, December 17th, at 11:00 AM PT. We go live on our podcast host Scott Johnson's channel, and we’ll post the VOD here afterward as well. Livestream link here: ruclips.net/video/q5TbcEIzZMk/видео.html We hope to see you there!
@FantasticPixelCastle The openness of this development process is definitely appreciated. I'm looking forward to how the team responds to some early direct feedback
The reason I enjoy WoW is because all the zones are connected and feel like they're part of the same world. The shards and instancing in this preview feel like it's primarily being done to solve the technical challenges of MMOs and networking, rather than providing the player with that same feeling of living and breathing the world they should feel a part of.
i think people who play this will not be WoW players or even MMO players. This will be for younger people with bad attention spans, but idunno if they will like tab targetting
I admit the shard concept may not be for me. I'm concerned about the game feeling like a theme park rather than a cohesive world. I'll be curious to see how fpc tackles that
I think it’ll depend how they execute their narrative. The idea of a fractured world and teleporting to parts of the fractured world for specific things is really cool imo.
I think back to how Guild Wars 2 had something somewhat similar called “The mists”, for its Dungeons & PvP, you could basically go to pocket dimensions of time/space via this abstract plane/energy called The Mist. The reasoning was some of this pockets were past events and were unstable, so you had to go through to control them. (Queueing up for dungeons lol). It never felt artificial really to me.
Definitely feel the same. I want a cohesive and connected world where group content is almost forced on you - I dislike this idea of solo content of what the ’blue zones’ seems to be.
I'm worried this is essentially just a lobby-based mmo. Kind of monster hunter 'blue zones' with some retail WoW-esque anonymous zerg red zones? Will keep following and hope to be proven wrong.
yeah I kinda feel the same. I get that they want to solve the "when youre done with a zone you never go back" problem but it just won't feel like an MMO if its not an open world imo
This genuinely might be a fatal mistake. They marketed an MMO knowing what that implies. Then they show what they are going for here, and it cuts the legs out from under every MMO players expectations.
Personally, I really like one giant cohesive world. It's one of the things original WoW got so right. Not a huge fan of the prospect of the world being carved up into instanced zones (if I'm understanding things correctly). Feels more like a lobby game with some multiplayer elements rather than a real mmorpg.
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here but blue zones sound a lot like "Island Expedition" from BFA, you hop in a private shard, fill up a bar doing basic activities and you get a reward. It's not really interesting and certainly not groundbreaking unless, somehow, you make it so each shard is like really unique but we know that randomly generated content are just tiles connecting points of interest, there is no such thing as purely randomly generated content, that doesn't exist (yet). The concept arts are definitively good looking but that just what they are, a concept, difficult to judge something based on a concept art.
I had this thought too, but I think the fatal flaw with Island Expeditions is that they were tuned around random groups, did not require a tank/healer dynamic, and were designed to be "quick, temporary content" rather than a core pillar of the gameplay loop from day 1.
>. It's not really interesting and certainly not groundbreaking unless, somehow, you make it so each shard is like really unique but we know that randomly generated content are just tiles connecting points of interest, there is no such thing as purely randomly generated content, that doesn't exist (yet). Ghostcrawler has said previously on his Twitter account that they understand this is the hardest part of the game's design to get right, which is why it is effectively their sole focus initially. Most other parts of the game are proven MMO systems that they aren't re-inventing, so they can leave them for a couple of years down the line. But truly innovating and pulling off randomly generated zones that aren't exactly how you describe it will be what differentiates them from other MMOs, and makes their game successful (hopefully). However, a separate point is that you're comparing it to Island Expeditions - an end game activity in BFA. These Blue Zones aren't just that - they're for levelling too. And even if lets say it ends up like you describe, at the very least, it's still a more cost effective way to handle the cookie-cutter non-end-game content in the game. The alternative is to spend far more time and effort hand crafting zones that players blast through then never touch again - so much cost for so little gain. So, although your point stands for end-game Blue Zones, I think you're underestimating the potential impact that Blue Zones being a core part of the entire MMO will have in terms of what it allows the team to spend its time on. It should at the very least mean the end-game content players truly care about is what gets the most attention by the devs, rather than handcrafting zones that are never touched again after a few months (see: every single patch zone in WoW).
Guild Wars 1 is one of my favorite "MMOs" of all time and is also instance-based. Some people argue it isn't a true MMO, but it truly feels like a wide, cohesive world -- just that you're not encountering *other random adventurers* out in the wilds. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it'd be sad to write off this game *solely* because you encounter strangers in town rather than mid-adventure. Hopefully potential players keep an open mind going forward!
I don't mind the red and blue shard concept, but what I would like to see is a requirement to still travel to the area as opposed to just teleporting, at least at first. I think traveling is important for the spontaneous grouping that feels vital to the MMO experience. Even if you end up just traveling to an area with an entrance to a blue shard, the chance to encounter a rat catcher that is interested in the shard you're going to and being able to group spontaneously is something that will help the game IMO.
blue zones sound like the worst idea possible, what makes classic wow so good is that you use the whole world and keep coming back to old zones.... blue zones is not it...
The game looks super promising, but I’m not really a fan of the shard idea. It gives off more of a multiplayer vibe, where you occasionally have big fights with random people. I love that FPC is trying to push the genre forward, but I’m not sure this is the direction MMORPG players are hoping for.
please reconsider the shard system, or find a way to package it in such a way that the disconnectedness is hidden. the narrative reason based on the art youve shown seems unbelievable, and id prefer if i could manually travel to these shards via some kind of flight system. if they are those nagrand type floating elements i should be able to physically go there myself
i am concerned that it is a lobby game, as it seems to be and i dont know if they should have showed this. i am still hopeful. it seems very similar to WoW but iduno if thats good lol
I've been following this project since day 1 and based on everything they said it is mostly a lobby game. Co-op blue zones, dungeons, raids, and then some actual overworld content just so they can legally call this an MMO. We won't know the actual ratio until the game comes out but if you're a long time MMO fan with certain expectations you'll probably end up disappointed to some degree. I just hope the new stuff is good enough to overshadow that disappointment but the more I learn about this game the less I like it.
@@RocoPwnage The decision to do this while simultaneously trying to appeal to old-school WoW players is counterintuitive. Most of them will see lobby game and immediately become uninterested.
Art looks amazing but i personally, dont like ingame approach shown right now, looks like a fortnite gamemode rather than a mmo world i would want to spend my time into alot
This is because, as said, it's a very early build where special effects are mainly placeholders for what the game will be in the future. Most of the game still is a concept, and as such, not yet developed. Game will not have this look when it will be done, but I hope they don't lean too much on these cheap Unreal Engine effects as well as you said.
Blue Zones remind me a lot of Wayfinder's lost zones. Those are, similarly, procedurally-generated zones with tiles and enemies based on the theme of the larger area of the persistent, non-instanced zone to which they are connected. I do not think this is necessarily a bad idea for an MMO, certainly Wayfinder started as one and deployed this same concept. I think the concern would be if the game feels too much like a "hub game"or "lobby game" similar to Phantasy Star Online, then it does not feel like it has the indicia of an MMORPG, which includes a world with scale and presence - you can walk on it, fly through it from one zone to another, and so forth. I think if you live in the big cities and the sole way to get to zones is to teleport, and you cannot go from one zone to another, then this will feel more like the game "Fellowship" currently in devleopment - it is essentially a lobby-based WoW Dungeon game that removes everything about WoW except player characters and the dungeon system. It has no world to explore, so few characters to meet and little reason to have much of a story with few ways to experience it in the game. Red zones sound like traditional MMO zones but without the connectivity that makes WoW's Azeroth memorable. There seems to be a place for procgen in MMORPG content design, but in my opinion, it is not a good tool as a foundational element (blue zones). Even if modern WoW and other MMOs give you portals to most parts of the world, knowing it is indeed a big world out there and you can just fly or walk or ride from zone to zone, or take a boat to another continent, is what makes the MMO world feel special. Even Lost Ark, which does a lot of "lobby"things with queued content and so forth, has a big world and a traversible ocean you need to navigate and even upgrade your ship in some older places to get through perilous waters to reach the next continent. I am by no means saying this concept is "dead on arrival" or anything else so harsh, but i do think of all the MMORPGs i have played, i have most enjoyed the ones with a large, concrete world to live in. "Lobby" or "Hub" games also work, but i would not necessarily say they wre MMORPGs and thus i do not think they capture the same feeling.
@@saintajoraglabados incredibly well written and you make a very good point. The might need to do alot more work on red zones than they expected, making them bigger exploration spaces to better adjust to mmo player expectations
@@yussefmamdouh9599thank you kindly for saying so. I agree with you that the best place within their design to sort of "fix" this issue would be the red zones. Perhaps connecting them to one another, or connecting them directly to the hub city. I think either that, or making a series of worlds, similar to the maps in Heroes of the Storm - each of them was part of the game's greater world of The Nexus, but had its own ruler, visual theme, and inhabitants. Perhaps that would be the best option within their framework - to make several hub cities and each one has red zones connected to it that can all be explored via means other than teleportation. I'm still looking forward to seeing this progress, but I do think if it feels too much what folks call a "lobby game" or even less connected than something like Diablo 4 or Path of Exile 2, then it won't really feel like an MMORPG to me.
@saintajoraglabados Agreed, I see alot of similarities of the core gameplay loop to games like destiny 2 and wayfinder, specifically hub city mmos, which are not considered as mmos by many of the player base of those games. Then again Greg did say in some of the podcast episodes that they're trying to stay away entirely from the idea of portals and teleporting and rather that they're looking at other means of traversal to get to blue zones, like seafaring or otherwise
I get not wanting to stuff the mic right into the face, but the SM7B needs that. Maybe at least for produced content like this, a lav would be the better choice. It already annoys me in the podcast that his voice just gets cut off constantly by Discord (or whatever they're using).
The game looks promising, but as other people have said, the shards mechanic might not be for everyone. However, I think that if it is properly executed, it can be a good gimmick for making a difference between this and other MMOS. The idea of blue and red zones is interesting, but my biggest concern is the rewarding system. At the moment, we have something "similar" in WoW: the delves, which are only useful for leveling your character and getting your first gear, but otherwise are boring and tedious. If the implementation of the blue zones makes them fun to play (the RNG generation is a plus for sure), rewarding, and doesn’t make you feel like you are doing something just for the gear (that you wouldn’t do if it’s not "mandatory"), it can be a success. I’m really looking forward to seeing more, and thank you so much for showing us this that soon!
3:30 The right char looks cool. The environment as well. About the (blue shards/zones) instanced stuff. A lot of games try this current concept and most have failed with it. I don't like it either, especially in a so called MMORPG. Another point is that it's been mentioned that people rush leveling and don't come back because it's poorly done in most games and the game doesn't want you to go back at all. There are a lot of solutions to solve this problem in terms of crafting gears (upgrade low level materials from t1 to t2. Like you can change 50x T1 into 5x T2 and make overall higher tier materials more rare), dungeons that have deeper floors with higher level mobs (the deeper you go into the dungeon) so you have to come back at a later point when you get stronger. Closed doors who just randomly opens, which gives you new quests and leads to new dungeons in a low level area but for high level players and so on. If the concept is that people are just going to rush leveling anyway so you don't want to bother about it and would rather focus on the end content, then why even bother adding it in the first place... Overall, the whole concept already seems outdated and dead on arrival. There are tons of good concepts devs could follow in mmorpgs, but they usually take the worst concepts, no idea why. You get the feeling that developers don't know what people want these days, and yes, there are different groups of players. (I am aware of it.) If this is what was planned for the RIOT mmorpg, it's no wonder they pulled the plug.
Seeing the concept, I couldn't help but be reminded of Outland, and Nagrand in particular, but on a grander scale! The narrative will need to be deeply cohesive to prevent the disparate places from feeling unconnected, which is rather how I felt about SWTOR's planets. Cool places individually, but if not for the Class narratives they could have felt too isolated. The Blue Zone concept reminds me of WoW's "Island Expeditions" in BfA, but more challenging, more rewarding, and much less spammable! Lots of potential, and while listening "too much" to the playerbase gives me some cause for concern, seeing this much of the game this early is also very cool!
It looks cool, but I really enjoy exploring a world and randomly running into players as well. Going off your naming conventions something like a 'purple zone'.
I love the look and feel of this game and the art work, but the shards could break the feeling if they are too small and you are already looking over the next edge after three meters. If they are just small social hubs where you sign up for lots of small matches, then the feeling will never be built up and the player will quickly leave again. If the shards are big enough and also look connected visually, then it will be good. Maybe through very subtle connections to each other, in the form of clouds or light bridges. Or large role-player shards from which you have a wide view of many worlds, so you start to dream and say, I want to go there :) . Thank you for sharing your work and I am very happy ♥ !
Love the different playstyle. Always hated how zones became dead content weeks or month after they released. Felt like such a waste of resources. Thanks for sharing!
a lot of people arent a fan of the current gameplay approach in these comments, but as someone who primarily plays stuff like warframe right now (another lobby-based mmo) these blue zones sound like a really solid chill experience to have with friends definitely not near a traditional mmorpg, but DOA? not fun?? i don't understand those sentiments
It's an MMORPG, it has to be a persistent world. Think more old school mechanics, but with more modern QOL/combat. Then you'll have something good. People want to see adventure return to the MMORPG.
I respect the attempt to make something new and given the talented team behind it I'm sure the final product will appeal to some (I guess guild wars fans would be happy to play it)!, but the systems of blue/red zones doesnt feel very appealing to me as it is presented now . If I think about situations in other MMOs where I enjoy encountering other players in the open world, 'world bosses' is pretty much down the list, I've always found them too chaotic and impersonal to be fun or make meaningful connections. Even in Rift which had a big focus on grouping up with randoms to tackle world events, it never felt quite right. So having world bosses as the main motivation of red zones feels a bit meh Thinking about it, I wish it was the other way around, I think small dungeons ('blue zones') are a perfect environment to group with randoms and get to know them while clearing them at your own space, whether larger encounters are always more interesting to tackle with a bunch of people you already know and can coordinate with. If you can't expect people to coordinate, then the strat has to be super basic, and the design space for anything else than a giant meatbag with a few aoes is quite limited.
I usually don’t leave comments, but since you claim to value community feedback so highly, I’ll take you at your word. As someone who’s been waiting nearly ~20 years since the days of EVE Online and World of Warcraft for a truly worthy new MMORPG - something that no one has managed to deliver yet - I’d like to share a few thoughts: 1. First off, congratulations on understanding something that so many others don’t: using a comic-style art graphics is by far the best choice for a long-lasting MMORPG. Such visuals remain largely timeless, retaining their appeal even after many years. I’m genuinely thrilled you’ve recognized this and made the 100% right decision here. 2. Many others have mentioned this already, and I doubt you’ll change it at this point, but I need to emphasize it: I’ve never liked the idea of placing entire zones behind instances. It really detracts from the immersion. One of the greatest draws of an MMORPG is a seamless, shared world that feels alive and interconnected. Instanced dungeons, as in WoW, are sensible and necessary, but applying the same logic to broader zones diminishes what makes these games truly special. 3. Procedural generation is, in my experience, always problematic. In every game that relies on it, players eventually recognize patterns and the content starts feeling repetitive. It lacks the handcrafted touch - the fine details and distinctiveness that make a world feel alive. Procedurally generated environments often come across as trivial, interchangeable, and soulless. It would be much more valuable to invest those resources into building a carefully designed, handcrafted world instead. 4. I could write an entire book on what I believe makes a great MMORPG and why so few thrive long-term. One of the greatest challenges - and I’m sure it will be for you as well - is establishing a compelling lore or backstory that resonates. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never personally been a huge lore enthusiast, but you can instantly feel when a game’s world is generic and interchangeable. Without a cohesive story and distinct personality, it risks feeling like just another run-of-the-mill setting filled with random dragons and orcs. This is where established IPs like WoW, LotR, Harry Potter, LoL, or Pokémon have a huge advantage: they come with their own longstanding identity, atmosphere, and world-building. I’m not sure what your team’s plans are in that regard, but finding a way to make your world and story feel unique and authentic - rather than just another reskinned copy - will be crucial.
The game looks to be pulling in two polar opposite directions. On the one hand, it's tab-targtting, holy trinity raiding. On the other hand, it's fortnite gun characters base building into the sky, lobby game. There's no world, just a waiting room mini-city. It's like adding choclate sauce to your pizza. There is a reason people don't try and sell this.
I think one thing that can go a long way to making blue zones not feel like "just instanced content" is having fast travel work like it does in Throne and Liberty. The teleport is almost instant and has no traditional loading screen. Even when traveling to instanced content in that game its near instant. It went a long way towards my enjoyment of that game and making it feel like part of one larger world. I do like the visuals and early art style shown off in the video here. Definitely headed in the right direction.
I'm wondering what the narrative logic would be for the blue zones since they are different every time. It's interesting so I'm open to see how it develops. I really like this approach they are doing trying to shit proof their game as much as possible. ..
Thank you for sharing the footage! I think it gives a good idea what kind of game are you going to make. I have been following you since the first QA session and I am really looking forward to what you can provide in future.
Where do you prefer feedback? From what I'm seeing here, this looks like only dungeons and raids. It seems there is no open world to explore. To me that is a very big must. Love to be able to follow the process, excited to see what's next
This blue shard idea does not appeal to me too much disconected from world its just like island expeditions. but i think i have got idea how blue shard could be connected and meaningful to world. You can try to make them more like minecraft, connected that you can just build to new ones or fly with something and they are not for 1 hour of game time but for the whole time you can build your farms, guild bases there, look for rare bosses on some orther shards or for super rare ore or just small shard with simple wood that will disappear after garthering. When you have pvp ON you can fight between shards or for shards control with people, something like strategy games mmo but not that you send troops across the map to other enemy castle but you are them with guild members and guild allies this will make these shards connected and have a place of existence not separate from the MMO world.
I think conceptually, the location of the city and the concept of the blue/red zones being various floating islands is somewhat reminiscent of Aion exploration wise. If you guys incorporated flying as a way to transition between zones, you'd have a really seamless system. What if the city was constantly moving and at set points the islands around it shifted, which could be different archetypal blue zones (ie swamp island, volcano island, island with a cave system) that the system cycles through (daily)? Depending on the setting, the concept of a more consistent "underworld" below the city on larger fragments of earth might make sense. Maybe red zones are the under area, while blue zones are the various floating islands?
There gotta be a purpose of the blue zone, like why do we need to go there? leveling? Boss? Reward? what does these things give us in term of purpose. Red zone sounds just like a instanced raid or something like that, everything is traditional and that is why things arent changing in the mmorpg scene, same with ashes of creation (good graphics, too big world, alot of nothing to do, same quest style everything is as it would've been 20 years ago) In my opinion you give everything a purpose in the game, ur fishing for what items, money, food whatever there gotta be a reason to fish that connected with something else, everything needs to be with a purpose. Which is why there is satisfaction is grinding, when there is a purpose there is a goal.
looks great, I'd like someone to innovate on the traditional tank/healer/dps meta seen in MMOs. other games like Lost Ark managed without them - they still have classes which are big beefy things that can taunt. But it's a lot more accessible. I think it can be taken further.
I think the concept is very cool. Central city hub with public red areas that are not random. Shards for replayability like "dungeons" in other mmos. The only thing I'd say is make the central hub able to support many many many players. Nothing sucks more than having that Destiny 2 Tower feel where you load in and see like 20 people only. If you really want to market the massive aspect of the MMO then I think the central hub needs to advertise that feel. Otherwise you become another lobby based MMO lite.
Excited to see the evolution of blue zones, especially ones that stick around as a form of player housing. WoW + Valheim would be a great pitch to my group.
The satisfaction from seeing this game grow will be something else 😂 feels surreal being apart of this journey and actually seeing the steps (and inevitable missteps) you guys take along the way. Hoping the best for y’all!
I think there is a weird dynamic happening. Blue zones seems like a thing from co-op games that we have today, deep rock galactic, helldivers etc. I do think this type of a gameplay loop is much better suited for modern players than your typical mmo, at the same time it will for sure alienate hardcore mmo players. Red zones seems like an interesting concept, but being able to gather enough suitable players for this type of content can be challenging (especially when there is some one-shooting mechanics involved). Art looks great and i really dig it. For me personally your project may be the new generation of MMO, but at the same time it could be a game that shouldn't ever be an MMO and insted be something like helldivers but in a fantasy setting. Cheering for you anyway guys, much love.
This is a lot of progress from previously shown gameplay, wow! Red zone guy feels like more of a raid encounter, and blue zone was shown as more freedom/exploration/casual I dont mind the placeholder faceless models for now
I'd love to be able to have a wizard with a staff in one hand and a sword in the other, or a warrior decked out in plate armor with a weapon/shield in one hand and a staff in the other. Could even have a crafting profession focusing on making staffs(the more proficient could change the cosmetics with material from other players/the players secondary 'gathering' profession)
I wouldn't want to be locked and forced to use another players profession in crafting mainly,but it could be a nice mechanic if done with 'extra' touch ups like cosmetics. That way crafting would still feel satisfying on ones own but would force crafting with the games player base economy for extra non mandatory-functioning perks
It looks great for an early prototype! A common mistake startups make is fearing to show off early, which often results in creating something that no one wants to play or finds interesting.
Well I really need to see future updates to see how it goes but it looks promising. I hope there is enough RPG elements such as many skilks and abilities to use, huge open world maps where players can interact and challenging group content, and of couse, some kind of pvp system
i would just love to see some temporary miniature version of the shards in events that are separate from the blue and red ones when the game comes out lol, silly idea that came to mind but thought it was cool, something that would have like a mini-game type of thing in there like swarm mode in LoL
for me this feels like we reachead a state of super early acces which you test the game so early that you kinda develop the game with them without being paid.
It would be cool if when adding structures you make in the blue zone, it could look and operate differently based on your class/characters background and not just your progression/level
I'm sorry but this prototype has nothing in common with the concept of an MMORPG ! Its a multiplayer online lobby Co-op game at best ! If its only on the players choice that they interact with strangers than its just not an MMO. It could be fun but don't call it an MMORPG because it doesn't have the characteristics of an actual MMORPG, at least to me.
Love the concept art and feel of the game. Id worry about the low amount of abilities available to the classes and fortnite style building kinda put me off a bit. Love that were such an early look at the work being done
The concept of blue/red zones is pretty similar to Convergences/meta map in GW2 which is not bad. But I hope they're more than just instances were you just end up looking for chests + killing stuff.
I really hope you guys can take the red zone blue zone idea and make it feel good and unique, and that it doesnt end up being just another hub mmo like destiny. Unfortunately hub mmos get a very bad wrap and alot of them arent considered mmos by many people because of the lack of solid areas to explore
To all the comments saying you're disappointed... please remember it's a prototype! Of course it 'looks like fortnite' because models are all placeholders from Unreal's asset store (: It's cool to see some of the early art taking shape! I assume the shot at 3:26 was intended as a peek into some of how the final game might look. The class design visuals are very unexpected but fun and there are several very inviting designs (waterbender and TWO bards?!). I look forward to seeing longer blue shard experiences to play with a small group of friends, but the hour-long exploration looks fun too. Makes sense to be 1hr for playtests. P.S. I would love to see some more giant bugs in future concept/art updates 🤞
The class and world concept arts look amazing, instantly very hyped about that! I love that the classes look quite unique and yet still familiar at the same time. Some of the more finished 3D environments also looked amazing, if the whole game will look like that than I can only say GG. I am worried about the blue shard system though, I don't know if I even want that split gameplay located at an area just for me (and invites) in an MMO. For player housing I would understand that, but when I play an MMO I personally want to play in a world with other people. Maybe I'm wrong though and the shard system will turn out more engaging than I think it could be. All in all still very impressed already, can't wait for your future updates!
The issue with zones that you no longer visit, is this is how a real world works, and that’s why Azeroth feels good. I don’t think this is just a design failing, but a lack of good storytelling to bring you back to places.
Guys people purchase a book to experience the WORLD of the book. They do not purchase a list of individual points because they want a single WORLD. Not bits and pieces of biomes floating around.
I'm looking forward to it! I hope we will be able to play as more than just humans or elf-likes in the end though. One of the things I love about WoW is playing fun monstrous races!
This is so refreshing to see. I have followed since first announcement and seeing the growth and level of transparency is amazing. Please continue to do this. I will say this I am a solo player most of the time in MMOs please make it solo play friendly. Would like to see this addressed in a upcoming game update/preview.
Theyve adresses it multiplw times in the pods. Gregs answer is basically - f you are a solo player, thats fine, you can absoloutely play solo, but this is a multiplayer game and will be built around being multiplayer so you will likely be left out of a lot of things if you want to play a solo game. There are other games out there and thats fine. - literally basically what he said on one pod
I get the concept but I hope there’s more world to explore than specific zones. That kinda kills the drive for mmos and just feels like we’re doing instances which doesn’t really make it an mmo. I prefer open concept and exploring new areas rather than zoning in somewhere. Open dungeons and instance dungeons should be a thing
I am so excited for this! I have been following Greg for a while and love the energy and creative of the team that has been put together for this! My only hope is that they will have a Mac version ;0) I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm sure the Mac gaming community will go nuts for it! Keep up the great works guys.
Challenging bosses with epic sound tracks just like from souls games will hook me, just like Poe 2 recently, hope it has some challenging and satisfying elements to tackle.
Question, will this be vertical or horizontal progression? A lot of the time I end up breaking with vertical games because after so many hours exposed to mechanics it becomes apparent that it's one big treadmill. The moment I realise that I play not to develop my character but simply to just constantly NOT fall off or worse still fighting against constant resets, I decide to step off that treadmill. At that point Im not playing the game, the game is playing me.
Without having fully grasped it, my first impression is that the blue/red design seems backwards or counterintuitive for a MMO. If I do single player / small group content in private zones and need a premade raid for bosses in public zones, then in what part of the MMO am I able to meet / get to know strangers to play with them?
Its a very interesting concept although im not sure if it reinvents MMOs. Im reminded of Warframe for the blue zones. Stage based randomly generated tilesets. Where as the Red Zones seem like stage based raids and dungeons that arent uncommon in MMOs. But scale does matter in terms of that. So my question is, how excatly is it going to innovate whats already in the market. Is it just in terms of scale of levels or content the zones provide? Also a want i have would be allowing players to fully experience the story with friends if they so choose. I find it extremely annoying that a lot of MMOs gate you from experiencing the story with friends and make you experience it just by yourself.
the future of MMOs? giant open worlds that take seemingly forever to cross from one side to the other. literal days of real life time. because the world is huge, you can always add points of interest where needed. crafting needs to be complex and dynamic on the development side but easy to use and understand on the front facing player UI side. having seemingly infinite materials for crafting. the materials would have their own stats which effect the item you craft. maybe you find some "black heart wood" and use it for a wand and it gives the wand the properties of "death" magic and the bolts of magic that come out for auto attack are necrotic type damage. maybe you find some "golden willow wood" and the wand now does healing instead of damage. but those are just main stats not even minor stats. things like damage, durability, extra stats, and so on would also be effected by the materials used in crafting. you can also craft an item at any level you want given you have the right materials. so if you want to make a sword for a level 1 player that has insane damage because you used extremely high end materials then so be it. an MMO is supposed to be an "online living world" and if your game dont feel that way. its not an MMO. wow was the first mmo to break the "living online world" mentality and go with "single player static game with friends" meme. you can't beat wow by being wow 2.0.
Combining tab targetting with replayable instances (aka shards, lets be real, they are essentially instances. We can see that) is trying to solve a problem - oldschool WoW dads with no time to raid. So you have innovated on the genre with shards. The reality is that the problem is not the MMO genre (Look at FF) The problem is trying to appeal to oldschool WoW dads and their lack of time. In order to appeal to them the shard system has ironically killed the heart and soul of what makes an MMO an MMO - the world. What is even more ironic, and I'm sorry to be harsh if i am, is that there was a lot of talk about avoiding AI use in ways which remove the soul of the game. But the entire concept of shards has done just that. I DO NOT accept the argument that this is simply a prototype gameplay example, because WE CAN SEE how shards work and the very concept of shards was BAKED IN to the game from day one where Greg drew an outline on a napkin. It is about the only core thing that we ever knew for certain the game would include. I have also had my concerns about it since day one and have asked 2 questions on it via Scott, including one in the last podcast. I always gave the benefit of the doubt until now when I can see it.... Also, it should be understood by the team that a workers guild mates, specifically those who are less talkative, or on the quieter side, will have a bias in favor of giving more positive feedback and ignoring bigger issues. This is because they will feel privileged of being hand picked by a close friend/guildmate and don't want to let them down. I don't think much of this would be a problem if the game wasn't marketed as an MMO. Like I said before, people don't want to be taken to potted plant after potted plant, they want to feel like they are in a forest. Instead, the shard system turns the MMO on its head. It would be like talking about an RTS for a year, 'hey guys, i have news, we're making an RTS!' and then people find out its a MOBA. 'Hey guys, so our spin on the RTS genre is that you only control one character who uses some abilities'. Then your response is 'Guys we told you that the game will not be for everyone, and that's okay'. Like no, dude. You told us you were making an MMO. An MMO is a world, not a bunch of pieces which the team must be struggling to figure out how to 'get to' without it feeling like it might as well be a lobby game. I stand by everything i say here, and that i have been concernedly saying since day one, I still wish you all the best of luck. Feel free to disagree, but I'd be very concerned about the paradoxical point of innovation on the genre if I was working on this game.
Hey everyone! FPC here.
Thank you so much for all of your attention on our prototype update video - we appreciate how many of you are interested in our development journey!
We’ve seen a lot of excitement and appreciation for our transparent approach to development since we released the video, which is gratifying. We’ve also seen a lot of questions and some concerns about instancing and our art style. So we set aside our last podcast episode of the year specifically to answer your questions.
That’s happening next Tuesday, December 17th, at 11:00 AM PT. We go live on our podcast host Scott Johnson's channel, and we’ll post the VOD here afterward as well. Livestream link here: ruclips.net/video/q5TbcEIzZMk/видео.html
We hope to see you there!
@FantasticPixelCastle The openness of this development process is definitely appreciated. I'm looking forward to how the team responds to some early direct feedback
The reason I enjoy WoW is because all the zones are connected and feel like they're part of the same world. The shards and instancing in this preview feel like it's primarily being done to solve the technical challenges of MMOs and networking, rather than providing the player with that same feeling of living and breathing the world they should feel a part of.
100% agree, best part about WoW.
i think people who play this will not be WoW players or even MMO players. This will be for younger people with bad attention spans, but idunno if they will like tab targetting
It's time for something new, Wow and Wow clones already exist.
I admit the shard concept may not be for me. I'm concerned about the game feeling like a theme park rather than a cohesive world. I'll be curious to see how fpc tackles that
Same feeling.
I think it’ll depend how they execute their narrative. The idea of a fractured world and teleporting to parts of the fractured world for specific things is really cool imo.
I think back to how Guild Wars 2 had something somewhat similar called “The mists”, for its Dungeons & PvP, you could basically go to pocket dimensions of time/space via this abstract plane/energy called The Mist. The reasoning was some of this pockets were past events and were unstable, so you had to go through to control them. (Queueing up for dungeons lol). It never felt artificial really to me.
Definitely feel the same. I want a cohesive and connected world where group content is almost forced on you - I dislike this idea of solo content of what the ’blue zones’ seems to be.
@@ZahhibbDevWell delves have been very popular in wow so 🤷🏼♀️
I'm worried this is essentially just a lobby-based mmo. Kind of monster hunter 'blue zones' with some retail WoW-esque anonymous zerg red zones?
Will keep following and hope to be proven wrong.
yeah I kinda feel the same. I get that they want to solve the "when youre done with a zone you never go back" problem but it just won't feel like an MMO if its not an open world imo
Bingo! There's plenty of feedback from a lot of us that this doesn't look like a MMORPG but a hub session based online game.
Honestly if this is what he had planned for the riot mmo I'm glad they scrapped it
This genuinely might be a fatal mistake. They marketed an MMO knowing what that implies. Then they show what they are going for here, and it cuts the legs out from under every MMO players expectations.
Personally, I really like one giant cohesive world. It's one of the things original WoW got so right.
Not a huge fan of the prospect of the world being carved up into instanced zones (if I'm understanding things correctly). Feels more like a lobby game with some multiplayer elements rather than a real mmorpg.
Guild Wars 1 did it years ago. Maybe GC can do it better. ITs not a bad idea if they can do it right.
Well, I'm going to play devil's advocate here but blue zones sound a lot like "Island Expedition" from BFA, you hop in a private shard, fill up a bar doing basic activities and you get a reward. It's not really interesting and certainly not groundbreaking unless, somehow, you make it so each shard is like really unique but we know that randomly generated content are just tiles connecting points of interest, there is no such thing as purely randomly generated content, that doesn't exist (yet).
The concept arts are definitively good looking but that just what they are, a concept, difficult to judge something based on a concept art.
I had this thought too, but I think the fatal flaw with Island Expeditions is that they were tuned around random groups, did not require a tank/healer dynamic, and were designed to be "quick, temporary content" rather than a core pillar of the gameplay loop from day 1.
>. It's not really interesting and certainly not groundbreaking unless, somehow, you make it so each shard is like really unique but we know that randomly generated content are just tiles connecting points of interest, there is no such thing as purely randomly generated content, that doesn't exist (yet).
Ghostcrawler has said previously on his Twitter account that they understand this is the hardest part of the game's design to get right, which is why it is effectively their sole focus initially. Most other parts of the game are proven MMO systems that they aren't re-inventing, so they can leave them for a couple of years down the line. But truly innovating and pulling off randomly generated zones that aren't exactly how you describe it will be what differentiates them from other MMOs, and makes their game successful (hopefully).
However, a separate point is that you're comparing it to Island Expeditions - an end game activity in BFA. These Blue Zones aren't just that - they're for levelling too. And even if lets say it ends up like you describe, at the very least, it's still a more cost effective way to handle the cookie-cutter non-end-game content in the game. The alternative is to spend far more time and effort hand crafting zones that players blast through then never touch again - so much cost for so little gain.
So, although your point stands for end-game Blue Zones, I think you're underestimating the potential impact that Blue Zones being a core part of the entire MMO will have in terms of what it allows the team to spend its time on. It should at the very least mean the end-game content players truly care about is what gets the most attention by the devs, rather than handcrafting zones that are never touched again after a few months (see: every single patch zone in WoW).
And even if it was, I don't want randomly generated crap. I want hand-crafted zones full of things that humans put there with intent.
Guild Wars 1 is one of my favorite "MMOs" of all time and is also instance-based. Some people argue it isn't a true MMO, but it truly feels like a wide, cohesive world -- just that you're not encountering *other random adventurers* out in the wilds. Maybe it's not for everyone, but it'd be sad to write off this game *solely* because you encounter strangers in town rather than mid-adventure. Hopefully potential players keep an open mind going forward!
I don't mind the red and blue shard concept, but what I would like to see is a requirement to still travel to the area as opposed to just teleporting, at least at first. I think traveling is important for the spontaneous grouping that feels vital to the MMO experience. Even if you end up just traveling to an area with an entrance to a blue shard, the chance to encounter a rat catcher that is interested in the shard you're going to and being able to group spontaneously is something that will help the game IMO.
Oh this is fascinating to see so early, thank you posting, im looking forward to seeing how it progress over the next year and on ward.
blue zones sound like the worst idea possible, what makes classic wow so good is that you use the whole world and keep coming back to old zones.... blue zones is not it...
The game looks super promising, but I’m not really a fan of the shard idea. It gives off more of a multiplayer vibe, where you occasionally have big fights with random people. I love that FPC is trying to push the genre forward, but I’m not sure this is the direction MMORPG players are hoping for.
WHO GREEN LIT THIS BACKGROUND MUSIC
please reconsider the shard system, or find a way to package it in such a way that the disconnectedness is hidden. the narrative reason based on the art youve shown seems unbelievable, and id prefer if i could manually travel to these shards via some kind of flight system. if they are those nagrand type floating elements i should be able to physically go there myself
that guy with the cat summon better be a rat catcher
Rat catcher mains guid mayhaps?
i am concerned that it is a lobby game, as it seems to be and i dont know if they should have showed this. i am still hopeful. it seems very similar to WoW but iduno if thats good lol
This very much looks like a lobby game so I am kind of disappointed.
I've been following this project since day 1 and based on everything they said it is mostly a lobby game. Co-op blue zones, dungeons, raids, and then some actual overworld content just so they can legally call this an MMO. We won't know the actual ratio until the game comes out but if you're a long time MMO fan with certain expectations you'll probably end up disappointed to some degree.
I just hope the new stuff is good enough to overshadow that disappointment but the more I learn about this game the less I like it.
@@RocoPwnage The decision to do this while simultaneously trying to appeal to old-school WoW players is counterintuitive. Most of them will see lobby game and immediately become uninterested.
BINGO because it sure as hell looks like a lobby game
its ghostcrawler, ofcourse its gonna be a wow clone, dude had his hands in the blizzard cookie jar for years
Love the transparency of your team and development approach - hope the audience build in anticipation. Wishing you all the best.
Feels very inpsired by GW1 and 2. Really like that though. LOVING these behind the scenes looks.
Appreciate the early looks and am excited for where you go with the project.
People seem to be worried about the world feeling quite disconnected. Maybe you should experiment with blending the zone types together more?
the more I hear about blue zones the less excited i am.
Art looks amazing but i personally, dont like ingame approach shown right now, looks like a fortnite gamemode rather than a mmo world i would want to spend my time into alot
Bingo
This is because, as said, it's a very early build where special effects are mainly placeholders for what the game will be in the future. Most of the game still is a concept, and as such, not yet developed. Game will not have this look when it will be done, but I hope they don't lean too much on these cheap Unreal Engine effects as well as you said.
@@Psykosnip He's talking about the red zone they showed that has their own art, not the placeholders from unreal store.
fortnite bad
@@RocoPwnage no he's not talking about art, but rather the approach, or the "basic idea with which the game will be created".
Blue Zones remind me a lot of Wayfinder's lost zones. Those are, similarly, procedurally-generated zones with tiles and enemies based on the theme of the larger area of the persistent, non-instanced zone to which they are connected.
I do not think this is necessarily a bad idea for an MMO, certainly Wayfinder started as one and deployed this same concept. I think the concern would be if the game feels too much like a "hub game"or "lobby game" similar to Phantasy Star Online, then it does not feel like it has the indicia of an MMORPG, which includes a world with scale and presence - you can walk on it, fly through it from one zone to another, and so forth.
I think if you live in the big cities and the sole way to get to zones is to teleport, and you cannot go from one zone to another, then this will feel more like the game "Fellowship" currently in devleopment - it is essentially a lobby-based WoW Dungeon game that removes everything about WoW except player characters and the dungeon system. It has no world to explore, so few characters to meet and little reason to have much of a story with few ways to experience it in the game.
Red zones sound like traditional MMO zones but without the connectivity that makes WoW's Azeroth memorable.
There seems to be a place for procgen in MMORPG content design, but in my opinion, it is not a good tool as a foundational element (blue zones).
Even if modern WoW and other MMOs give you portals to most parts of the world, knowing it is indeed a big world out there and you can just fly or walk or ride from zone to zone, or take a boat to another continent, is what makes the MMO world feel special.
Even Lost Ark, which does a lot of "lobby"things with queued content and so forth, has a big world and a traversible ocean you need to navigate and even upgrade your ship in some older places to get through perilous waters to reach the next continent.
I am by no means saying this concept is "dead on arrival" or anything else so harsh, but i do think of all the MMORPGs i have played, i have most enjoyed the ones with a large, concrete world to live in. "Lobby" or "Hub" games also work, but i would not necessarily say they wre MMORPGs and thus i do not think they capture the same feeling.
@@saintajoraglabados incredibly well written and you make a very good point. The might need to do alot more work on red zones than they expected, making them bigger exploration spaces to better adjust to mmo player expectations
@@yussefmamdouh9599thank you kindly for saying so. I agree with you that the best place within their design to sort of "fix" this issue would be the red zones. Perhaps connecting them to one another, or connecting them directly to the hub city.
I think either that, or making a series of worlds, similar to the maps in Heroes of the Storm - each of them was part of the game's greater world of The Nexus, but had its own ruler, visual theme, and inhabitants. Perhaps that would be the best option within their framework - to make several hub cities and each one has red zones connected to it that can all be explored via means other than teleportation.
I'm still looking forward to seeing this progress, but I do think if it feels too much what folks call a "lobby game" or even less connected than something like Diablo 4 or Path of Exile 2, then it won't really feel like an MMORPG to me.
@saintajoraglabados
Agreed, I see alot of similarities of the core gameplay loop to games like destiny 2 and wayfinder, specifically hub city mmos, which are not considered as mmos by many of the player base of those games.
Then again Greg did say in some of the podcast episodes that they're trying to stay away entirely from the idea of portals and teleporting and rather that they're looking at other means of traversal to get to blue zones, like seafaring or otherwise
Looks like a good foundation. 1 request for future videos: Greg, please reduce the gain on your microphone. 🎤👍🏻
I get not wanting to stuff the mic right into the face, but the SM7B needs that. Maybe at least for produced content like this, a lav would be the better choice.
It already annoys me in the podcast that his voice just gets cut off constantly by Discord (or whatever they're using).
Love to see the super early prototype footage! Definitely excited to keep following along and see where things go.
The game looks promising, but as other people have said, the shards mechanic might not be for everyone. However, I think that if it is properly executed, it can be a good gimmick for making a difference between this and other MMOS. The idea of blue and red zones is interesting, but my biggest concern is the rewarding system. At the moment, we have something "similar" in WoW: the delves, which are only useful for leveling your character and getting your first gear, but otherwise are boring and tedious. If the implementation of the blue zones makes them fun to play (the RNG generation is a plus for sure), rewarding, and doesn’t make you feel like you are doing something just for the gear (that you wouldn’t do if it’s not "mandatory"), it can be a success. I’m really looking forward to seeing more, and thank you so much for showing us this that soon!
3:30 The right char looks cool. The environment as well.
About the (blue shards/zones) instanced stuff. A lot of games try this current concept and most have failed with it. I don't like it either, especially in a so called MMORPG. Another point is that it's been mentioned that people rush leveling and don't come back because it's poorly done in most games and the game doesn't want you to go back at all. There are a lot of solutions to solve this problem in terms of crafting gears (upgrade low level materials from t1 to t2. Like you can change 50x T1 into 5x T2 and make overall higher tier materials more rare), dungeons that have deeper floors with higher level mobs (the deeper you go into the dungeon) so you have to come back at a later point when you get stronger. Closed doors who just randomly opens, which gives you new quests and leads to new dungeons in a low level area but for high level players and so on.
If the concept is that people are just going to rush leveling anyway so you don't want to bother about it and would rather focus on the end content, then why even bother adding it in the first place...
Overall, the whole concept already seems outdated and dead on arrival. There are tons of good concepts devs could follow in mmorpgs, but they usually take the worst concepts, no idea why.
You get the feeling that developers don't know what people want these days, and yes, there are different groups of players. (I am aware of it.)
If this is what was planned for the RIOT mmorpg, it's no wonder they pulled the plug.
Seeing the concept, I couldn't help but be reminded of Outland, and Nagrand in particular, but on a grander scale!
The narrative will need to be deeply cohesive to prevent the disparate places from feeling unconnected, which is rather how I felt about SWTOR's planets. Cool places individually, but if not for the Class narratives they could have felt too isolated. The Blue Zone concept reminds me of WoW's "Island Expeditions" in BfA, but more challenging, more rewarding, and much less spammable!
Lots of potential, and while listening "too much" to the playerbase gives me some cause for concern, seeing this much of the game this early is also very cool!
It looks cool, but I really enjoy exploring a world and randomly running into players as well. Going off your naming conventions something like a 'purple zone'.
I love the look and feel of this game and the art work, but the shards could break the feeling if they are too small and you are already looking over the next edge after three meters. If they are just small social hubs where you sign up for lots of small matches, then the feeling will never be built up and the player will quickly leave again. If the shards are big enough and also look connected visually, then it will be good. Maybe through very subtle connections to each other, in the form of clouds or light bridges. Or large role-player shards from which you have a wide view of many worlds, so you start to dream and say, I want to go there :) .
Thank you for sharing your work and I am very happy ♥ !
Ngl disappointed with the setting. Instanced zones and a lobby town... Not for me.
Love the different playstyle. Always hated how zones became dead content weeks or month after they released. Felt like such a waste of resources.
Thanks for sharing!
Excited for future updates!
Steven Save Us
a lot of people arent a fan of the current gameplay approach in these comments, but as someone who primarily plays stuff like warframe right now (another lobby-based mmo) these blue zones sound like a really solid chill experience to have with friends
definitely not near a traditional mmorpg, but DOA? not fun?? i don't understand those sentiments
It's an MMORPG, it has to be a persistent world.
Think more old school mechanics, but with more modern QOL/combat.
Then you'll have something good.
People want to see adventure return to the MMORPG.
I respect the attempt to make something new and given the talented team behind it I'm sure the final product will appeal to some (I guess guild wars fans would be happy to play it)!, but the systems of blue/red zones doesnt feel very appealing to me as it is presented now .
If I think about situations in other MMOs where I enjoy encountering other players in the open world, 'world bosses' is pretty much down the list, I've always found them too chaotic and impersonal to be fun or make meaningful connections. Even in Rift which had a big focus on grouping up with randoms to tackle world events, it never felt quite right. So having world bosses as the main motivation of red zones feels a bit meh
Thinking about it, I wish it was the other way around, I think small dungeons ('blue zones') are a perfect environment to group with randoms and get to know them while clearing them at your own space, whether larger encounters are always more interesting to tackle with a bunch of people you already know and can coordinate with. If you can't expect people to coordinate, then the strat has to be super basic, and the design space for anything else than a giant meatbag with a few aoes is quite limited.
I usually don’t leave comments, but since you claim to value community feedback so highly, I’ll take you at your word. As someone who’s been waiting nearly ~20 years since the days of EVE Online and World of Warcraft for a truly worthy new MMORPG - something that no one has managed to deliver yet - I’d like to share a few thoughts:
1. First off, congratulations on understanding something that so many others don’t: using a comic-style art graphics is by far the best choice for a long-lasting MMORPG. Such visuals remain largely timeless, retaining their appeal even after many years. I’m genuinely thrilled you’ve recognized this and made the 100% right decision here.
2. Many others have mentioned this already, and I doubt you’ll change it at this point, but I need to emphasize it: I’ve never liked the idea of placing entire zones behind instances. It really detracts from the immersion. One of the greatest draws of an MMORPG is a seamless, shared world that feels alive and interconnected. Instanced dungeons, as in WoW, are sensible and necessary, but applying the same logic to broader zones diminishes what makes these games truly special.
3. Procedural generation is, in my experience, always problematic. In every game that relies on it, players eventually recognize patterns and the content starts feeling repetitive. It lacks the handcrafted touch - the fine details and distinctiveness that make a world feel alive. Procedurally generated environments often come across as trivial, interchangeable, and soulless. It would be much more valuable to invest those resources into building a carefully designed, handcrafted world instead.
4. I could write an entire book on what I believe makes a great MMORPG and why so few thrive long-term. One of the greatest challenges - and I’m sure it will be for you as well - is establishing a compelling lore or backstory that resonates. Don’t get me wrong, I’ve never personally been a huge lore enthusiast, but you can instantly feel when a game’s world is generic and interchangeable. Without a cohesive story and distinct personality, it risks feeling like just another run-of-the-mill setting filled with random dragons and orcs. This is where established IPs like WoW, LotR, Harry Potter, LoL, or Pokémon have a huge advantage: they come with their own longstanding identity, atmosphere, and world-building. I’m not sure what your team’s plans are in that regard, but finding a way to make your world and story feel unique and authentic - rather than just another reskinned copy - will be crucial.
The game looks to be pulling in two polar opposite directions.
On the one hand, it's tab-targtting, holy trinity raiding.
On the other hand, it's fortnite gun characters base building into the sky, lobby game. There's no world, just a waiting room mini-city.
It's like adding choclate sauce to your pizza. There is a reason people don't try and sell this.
I think one thing that can go a long way to making blue zones not feel like "just instanced content" is having fast travel work like it does in Throne and Liberty. The teleport is almost instant and has no traditional loading screen. Even when traveling to instanced content in that game its near instant. It went a long way towards my enjoyment of that game and making it feel like part of one larger world.
I do like the visuals and early art style shown off in the video here. Definitely headed in the right direction.
I'm wondering what the narrative logic would be for the blue zones since they are different every time. It's interesting so I'm open to see how it develops. I really like this approach they are doing trying to shit proof their game as much as possible. ..
CAN'T WAITTTT
These early looks are going to be really nice to continue seeing and it will help with feedback or thoughts by players or potential players.
Thank you for sharing the footage! I think it gives a good idea what kind of game are you going to make. I have been following you since the first QA session and I am really looking forward to what you can provide in future.
Where do you prefer feedback?
From what I'm seeing here, this looks like only dungeons and raids. It seems there is no open world to explore. To me that is a very big must.
Love to be able to follow the process, excited to see what's next
This blue shard idea does not appeal to me too much disconected from world its just like island expeditions. but i think i have got idea how blue shard could be connected and meaningful to world. You can try to make them more like minecraft, connected that you can just build to new ones or fly with something and they are not for 1 hour of game time but for the whole time you can build your farms, guild bases there, look for rare bosses on some orther shards or for super rare ore or just small shard with simple wood that will disappear after garthering. When you have pvp ON you can fight between shards or for shards control with people, something like strategy games mmo but not that you send troops across the map to other enemy castle but you are them with guild members and guild allies this will make these shards connected and have a place of existence not separate from the MMO world.
I think conceptually, the location of the city and the concept of the blue/red zones being various floating islands is somewhat reminiscent of Aion exploration wise. If you guys incorporated flying as a way to transition between zones, you'd have a really seamless system. What if the city was constantly moving and at set points the islands around it shifted, which could be different archetypal blue zones (ie swamp island, volcano island, island with a cave system) that the system cycles through (daily)? Depending on the setting, the concept of a more consistent "underworld" below the city on larger fragments of earth might make sense. Maybe red zones are the under area, while blue zones are the various floating islands?
There gotta be a purpose of the blue zone, like why do we need to go there? leveling? Boss? Reward? what does these things give us in term of purpose. Red zone sounds just like a instanced raid or something like that, everything is traditional and that is why things arent changing in the mmorpg scene, same with ashes of creation (good graphics, too big world, alot of nothing to do, same quest style everything is as it would've been 20 years ago) In my opinion you give everything a purpose in the game, ur fishing for what items, money, food whatever there gotta be a reason to fish that connected with something else, everything needs to be with a purpose. Which is why there is satisfaction is grinding, when there is a purpose there is a goal.
looks great, I'd like someone to innovate on the traditional tank/healer/dps meta seen in MMOs. other games like Lost Ark managed without them - they still have classes which are big beefy things that can taunt. But it's a lot more accessible. I think it can be taken further.
Super cool seeing this so early. It is so clear that you want to live to your studio goal/directive. Very impressive.
I think the concept is very cool. Central city hub with public red areas that are not random. Shards for replayability like "dungeons" in other mmos.
The only thing I'd say is make the central hub able to support many many many players. Nothing sucks more than having that Destiny 2 Tower feel where you load in and see like 20 people only.
If you really want to market the massive aspect of the MMO then I think the central hub needs to advertise that feel. Otherwise you become another lobby based MMO lite.
I expect there to be some pvp zone, but agree with the majority. This doesn’t feel like anyone will spend time in until the next “expansion” comes out
Excited to see the evolution of blue zones, especially ones that stick around as a form of player housing. WoW + Valheim would be a great pitch to my group.
It's looking amazing i'm so excited for the blue shards and how you're going to expand on them!!
Can't wait for future playtest announcements! thanks for letting us in on your progress and vision!
The satisfaction from seeing this game grow will be something else 😂 feels surreal being apart of this journey and actually seeing the steps (and inevitable missteps) you guys take along the way. Hoping the best for y’all!
I think there is a weird dynamic happening. Blue zones seems like a thing from co-op games that we have today, deep rock galactic, helldivers etc. I do think this type of a gameplay loop is much better suited for modern players than your typical mmo, at the same time it will for sure alienate hardcore mmo players. Red zones seems like an interesting concept, but being able to gather enough suitable players for this type of content can be challenging (especially when there is some one-shooting mechanics involved). Art looks great and i really dig it. For me personally your project may be the new generation of MMO, but at the same time it could be a game that shouldn't ever be an MMO and insted be something like helldivers but in a fantasy setting. Cheering for you anyway guys, much love.
This is a lot of progress from previously shown gameplay, wow!
Red zone guy feels like more of a raid encounter, and blue zone was shown as more freedom/exploration/casual
I dont mind the placeholder faceless models for now
I'd love to be able to have a wizard with a staff in one hand and a sword in the other, or a warrior decked out in plate armor with a weapon/shield in one hand and a staff in the other. Could even have a crafting profession focusing on making staffs(the more proficient could change the cosmetics with material from other players/the players secondary 'gathering' profession)
I wouldn't want to be locked and forced to use another players profession in crafting mainly,but it could be a nice mechanic if done with 'extra' touch ups like cosmetics. That way crafting would still feel satisfying on ones own but would force crafting with the games player base economy for extra non mandatory-functioning perks
It looks great for an early prototype! A common mistake startups make is fearing to show off early, which often results in creating something that no one wants to play or finds interesting.
Well I really need to see future updates to see how it goes but it looks promising. I hope there is enough RPG elements such as many skilks and abilities to use, huge open world maps where players can interact and challenging group content, and of couse, some kind of pvp system
From what I hear, I don't think I (will) like blue zones (instances?) :(
i would just love to see some temporary miniature version of the shards in events that are separate from the blue and red ones when the game comes out lol, silly idea that came to mind but thought it was cool, something that would have like a mini-game type of thing in there like swarm mode in LoL
Waiting to see the full narrative, it's how they connect me to the world with lore that really hooks me at the start of any new MMORPG
That one rat character has to be a class now 😂😂 cant get around it now.
for me this feels like we reachead a state of super early acces which you test the game so early that you kinda develop the game with them without being paid.
interesting concept, can’t wait to see how it turns out
It would be cool if when adding structures you make in the blue zone, it could look and operate differently based on your class/characters background and not just your progression/level
Shadowlands, the MMO
art looks absolutely stunning
I'm sorry but this prototype has nothing in common with the concept of an MMORPG !
Its a multiplayer online lobby Co-op game at best !
If its only on the players choice that they interact with strangers than its just not an MMO.
It could be fun but don't call it an MMORPG because it doesn't have the characteristics of an actual MMORPG, at least to me.
MMO didn't exsit anymore, WoW included
@@drulhox7189 Classic Wow is an MMORPG.
Archeage Was a true MMORPG.
Ashes of creation is an MMORPG.
I could go on and on...
Love the concept art and feel of the game. Id worry about the low amount of abilities available to the classes and fortnite style building kinda put me off a bit. Love that were such an early look at the work being done
The concept of blue/red zones is pretty similar to Convergences/meta map in GW2 which is not bad. But I hope they're more than just instances were you just end up looking for chests + killing stuff.
I really hope you guys can take the red zone blue zone idea and make it feel good and unique, and that it doesnt end up being just another hub mmo like destiny. Unfortunately hub mmos get a very bad wrap and alot of them arent considered mmos by many people because of the lack of solid areas to explore
The general concept for the world sounds a lot like Chronicles of Spellborn if anyone remembers that game. What with the floating shards and whatnot.
Which funnily enough was made in Unreal Engine 2 😅
To all the comments saying you're disappointed... please remember it's a prototype! Of course it 'looks like fortnite' because models are all placeholders from Unreal's asset store (:
It's cool to see some of the early art taking shape! I assume the shot at 3:26 was intended as a peek into some of how the final game might look. The class design visuals are very unexpected but fun and there are several very inviting designs (waterbender and TWO bards?!).
I look forward to seeing longer blue shard experiences to play with a small group of friends, but the hour-long exploration looks fun too. Makes sense to be 1hr for playtests.
P.S. I would love to see some more giant bugs in future concept/art updates 🤞
The class design character images are not unreal assets. Still just prototype which is fair enough however.
The class and world concept arts look amazing, instantly very hyped about that! I love that the classes look quite unique and yet still familiar at the same time. Some of the more finished 3D environments also looked amazing, if the whole game will look like that than I can only say GG.
I am worried about the blue shard system though, I don't know if I even want that split gameplay located at an area just for me (and invites) in an MMO. For player housing I would understand that, but when I play an MMO I personally want to play in a world with other people. Maybe I'm wrong though and the shard system will turn out more engaging than I think it could be.
All in all still very impressed already, can't wait for your future updates!
The issue with zones that you no longer visit, is this is how a real world works, and that’s why Azeroth feels good. I don’t think this is just a design failing, but a lack of good storytelling to bring you back to places.
Guys people purchase a book to experience the WORLD of the book. They do not purchase a list of individual points because they want a single WORLD. Not bits and pieces of biomes floating around.
I'm looking forward to it! I hope we will be able to play as more than just humans or elf-likes in the end though. One of the things I love about WoW is playing fun monstrous races!
This is so refreshing to see. I have followed since first announcement and seeing the growth and level of transparency is amazing. Please continue to do this. I will say this I am a solo player most of the time in MMOs please make it solo play friendly. Would like to see this addressed in a upcoming game update/preview.
Theyve adresses it multiplw times in the pods. Gregs answer is basically - f you are a solo player, thats fine, you can absoloutely play solo, but this is a multiplayer game and will be built around being multiplayer so you will likely be left out of a lot of things if you want to play a solo game. There are other games out there and thats fine. - literally basically what he said on one pod
I get the concept but I hope there’s more world to explore than specific zones. That kinda kills the drive for mmos and just feels like we’re doing instances which doesn’t really make it an mmo. I prefer open concept and exploring new areas rather than zoning in somewhere. Open dungeons and instance dungeons should be a thing
I am so excited for this! I have been following Greg for a while and love the energy and creative of the team that has been put together for this! My only hope is that they will have a Mac version ;0) I know it's a lot to ask, but I'm sure the Mac gaming community will go nuts for it! Keep up the great works guys.
Starting to take shape! I really like where you are going with it. Great job by the team this year! :)
Challenging bosses with epic sound tracks just like from souls games will hook me, just like Poe 2 recently, hope it has some challenging and satisfying elements to tackle.
When i first heard about the concept of this MMO i already knew it wasn't gonna be good, i really don't wanna play an MMORPG version of Dauntless.
Oh ghostcrawler, how I've missed you
Theme of the game looks very attracting to me and I am very excited to experience the shard system.
Have you played many MMOs before (curious) ?
I think you are going to turn off a lot of people if this is not a seamless, persistent world. My 2 cents.
Are you using GAS or your own custom ability system? 😅 Always interested what bigger teams use!
can't wait to see what you're showing off!
Excited to see what’s to come!
Are those traversal mechanics I see? I'm seeing some great ideas guys. Keep up the good work
Question, will this be vertical or horizontal progression? A lot of the time I end up breaking with vertical games because after so many hours exposed to mechanics it becomes apparent that it's one big treadmill. The moment I realise that I play not to develop my character but simply to just constantly NOT fall off or worse still fighting against constant resets, I decide to step off that treadmill. At that point Im not playing the game, the game is playing me.
Without having fully grasped it, my first impression is that the blue/red design seems backwards or counterintuitive for a MMO. If I do single player / small group content in private zones and need a premade raid for bosses in public zones, then in what part of the MMO am I able to meet / get to know strangers to play with them?
The concept art and illustrations look great! I'd like to ask if this will be an action-oriented MMO?
Thanks!
Sounds epic, I can't wait to play it!
Its a very interesting concept although im not sure if it reinvents MMOs. Im reminded of Warframe for the blue zones. Stage based randomly generated tilesets. Where as the Red Zones seem like stage based raids and dungeons that arent uncommon in MMOs. But scale does matter in terms of that. So my question is, how excatly is it going to innovate whats already in the market. Is it just in terms of scale of levels or content the zones provide? Also a want i have would be allowing players to fully experience the story with friends if they so choose. I find it extremely annoying that a lot of MMOs gate you from experiencing the story with friends and make you experience it just by yourself.
i really hope there will be a battlemage with a greatsword or heavy weapon :') i havent found an mmo that has that since ff11
the future of MMOs? giant open worlds that take seemingly forever to cross from one side to the other. literal days of real life time. because the world is huge, you can always add points of interest where needed. crafting needs to be complex and dynamic on the development side but easy to use and understand on the front facing player UI side. having seemingly infinite materials for crafting. the materials would have their own stats which effect the item you craft. maybe you find some "black heart wood" and use it for a wand and it gives the wand the properties of "death" magic and the bolts of magic that come out for auto attack are necrotic type damage. maybe you find some "golden willow wood" and the wand now does healing instead of damage. but those are just main stats not even minor stats. things like damage, durability, extra stats, and so on would also be effected by the materials used in crafting. you can also craft an item at any level you want given you have the right materials. so if you want to make a sword for a level 1 player that has insane damage because you used extremely high end materials then so be it. an MMO is supposed to be an "online living world" and if your game dont feel that way. its not an MMO. wow was the first mmo to break the "living online world" mentality and go with "single player static game with friends" meme. you can't beat wow by being wow 2.0.
Combining tab targetting with replayable instances (aka shards, lets be real, they are essentially instances. We can see that) is trying to solve a problem - oldschool WoW dads with no time to raid.
So you have innovated on the genre with shards. The reality is that the problem is not the MMO genre (Look at FF) The problem is trying to appeal to oldschool WoW dads and their lack of time. In order to appeal to them the shard system has ironically killed the heart and soul of what makes an MMO an MMO - the world.
What is even more ironic, and I'm sorry to be harsh if i am, is that there was a lot of talk about avoiding AI use in ways which remove the soul of the game. But the entire concept of shards has done just that. I DO NOT accept the argument that this is simply a prototype gameplay example, because WE CAN SEE how shards work and the very concept of shards was BAKED IN to the game from day one where Greg drew an outline on a napkin. It is about the only core thing that we ever knew for certain the game would include. I have also had my concerns about it since day one and have asked 2 questions on it via Scott, including one in the last podcast. I always gave the benefit of the doubt until now when I can see it....
Also, it should be understood by the team that a workers guild mates, specifically those who are less talkative, or on the quieter side, will have a bias in favor of giving more positive feedback and ignoring bigger issues. This is because they will feel privileged of being hand picked by a close friend/guildmate and don't want to let them down.
I don't think much of this would be a problem if the game wasn't marketed as an MMO. Like I said before, people don't want to be taken to potted plant after potted plant, they want to feel like they are in a forest. Instead, the shard system turns the MMO on its head. It would be like talking about an RTS for a year, 'hey guys, i have news, we're making an RTS!' and then people find out its a MOBA. 'Hey guys, so our spin on the RTS genre is that you only control one character who uses some abilities'. Then your response is 'Guys we told you that the game will not be for everyone, and that's okay'. Like no, dude. You told us you were making an MMO. An MMO is a world, not a bunch of pieces which the team must be struggling to figure out how to 'get to' without it feeling like it might as well be a lobby game.
I stand by everything i say here, and that i have been concernedly saying since day one, I still wish you all the best of luck. Feel free to disagree, but I'd be very concerned about the paradoxical point of innovation on the genre if I was working on this game.
Sold me at "Can I pet that" achievement. I will be extremely disappointed if this isn't in the main game now.