Ferrari 360 CS Spider Project FULL SERVICE - Building The Missing Ferrari - Part 8

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  • Опубликовано: 21 авг 2024
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    We might have missed a vital part of the build ...servicing !! Today the car gets the full works and I receive some exciting updates.

Комментарии • 146

  • @Ratarossa
    @Ratarossa  2 года назад +3

    Go to squarespace.com/ratarossa to get a free trial and 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain

    • @icamicha5797
      @icamicha5797 2 года назад

      3/m89t

    • @jasonwhite7699
      @jasonwhite7699 10 месяцев назад

      I don't see the link for the RTuned carbon fiber can you please share that? Looks like they do amazing work.

  • @sjoroverpirat
    @sjoroverpirat 2 года назад +20

    I've been watching you for a couple of years now. And i think i've just realized something. Ferraris are just normal machines and can be serviced by most people. They also don't self destruct when used in rain or when getting dirty. An amazing revalation.

  • @stuartd9741
    @stuartd9741 2 года назад +1

    Enjoying this build.
    Even though it's not to everyones taste.
    Them cam belts look fairly straightforward to do.
    I'm wondering with the feeler gauge.
    Could you place the feeler gauge upright between the idler & tensioner.
    Then tighten the idler/nut against the feeler gauge?
    This way as you tighten & feel resistance as the idler butts up against the feeler gauge it should in theory, always be correct?
    2 tips I was given bleeding brakes.
    Get Assistant to pump brake pedal 10 times to build pressure, *then* release nipple.
    Depress pedal once smooth movement downward - hold pedal on the floor.. tighten nipple release pedal. Rinse & repeat.
    This way you don't over extend the master cylinder pedal travel.
    *Gravity bleed*
    Make sure there's enough fluid in brake reservoir.
    Place bleed tube over nipple. Open nipple. Go have a beverage of choice.(20/30min)
    Let the fluid drain into the bleed bottle.
    Come back tighten nipple volia! Brakes bled solo.
    And get a hard pedal.
    Good stuff 👍

  • @kriskorsmo
    @kriskorsmo 2 года назад +3

    Nice work, Scott! The carbon fiber pieces are going to look fantastic, and it’s so smart to use the 16M as your guide when improvising. I really want to see this in person when it’s done!

  • @r.p.3192
    @r.p.3192 2 года назад

    No more tinkering in the backyard, great! Real mechanics tools and a decent workshop, great! Every episode is a clear proof of raising the proficiency level, great! Love your videos and builds 🤙

  • @Saavvvv
    @Saavvvv 2 года назад +3

    I love the way the tensioner pulley looks really surprised 😱🤣

  • @ThriftMachine
    @ThriftMachine 2 года назад

    Ratarossa stamped in the shape of the car key chains

  • @windronner1
    @windronner1 2 года назад

    What I find so amazing about these cars is how engineering went into designing and building. All in a very tight package.

  • @ME-im5qe
    @ME-im5qe 2 года назад

    Scott, amazing work on your cars! You have made me a believer that I could do the belts myself by watching you at work! Can't wait to see the final product on the road!! Cheers!

  • @organiccold
    @organiccold 2 года назад +1

    Scott Scott, you got me addicted to this series... The UK Tavarish hehe

  • @supercarisland460
    @supercarisland460 2 года назад +4

    Great video. Still not confident to take on a cam belt change myself, love the carbon engine cover parts.

  • @adamhamilton3342
    @adamhamilton3342 2 года назад

    very cool. love the new carbon bits

  • @conniebenny
    @conniebenny 2 года назад

    Another triumphant video! Your knowledge and skills continue to amaze and impress!

  • @niosanfrancisco
    @niosanfrancisco 2 года назад +1

    WOW, serious progress being made!!

  • @EliteRock
    @EliteRock 2 года назад +1

    Thanks! Very satisfying episode.

  • @eddier798
    @eddier798 2 года назад +1

    Great job well done. Looking forward to the next chapter.

  • @holoduke51a
    @holoduke51a 2 года назад +7

    Sweet progress. Hoews the 512 doing? Still working on it?

  • @idesignyou...9257
    @idesignyou...9257 2 года назад +2

    Great job bud, actually looks easier than the timing chains on my VQ35DE! lol

  • @enzorari
    @enzorari 2 года назад +1

    Yippie, new video online now 😍

  • @bobsyeruncle4841
    @bobsyeruncle4841 2 года назад

    respect for your amazing skills.

  • @craigmac9455
    @craigmac9455 2 года назад

    Fantastic job Scott! Looking forward to the next video and of course the finished product. Keep up the good work! From: Across the pond in the U.S.

  • @usercp19666
    @usercp19666 2 года назад +6

    when 512 update?

  • @philipclausen3259
    @philipclausen3259 2 года назад +4

    Hi Scott
    Why don`t you make a calendar with all your favorit Ferraris, maybe a bit to late for 2022, but i am sure it would cool.
    I am currently isolated in bedroom with COVID-19 so i have good time to enjoy all your videos again.
    Please have a safe and merry Christmas
    Best regards
    Philip

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +1

      great idea. Sorry to hear you are unwell, hope you feel better soon.

  • @pereldh5741
    @pereldh5741 2 года назад

    This one’s must be of massive help for all 360 owners!!
    That tensioner is actually a de-tensioner, identical part on my Alfa Romeo V6.

  • @vtecbobby
    @vtecbobby 2 года назад +2

    This project is coming together nicely. Thinking about your paint job with the stripe. Your plan is to clearcoat over the stripe so you cant feel the edge. I am wondering then if you plan to apply the stripe when the car is in basecoat? This has potential to cause issues later with paint delamination. It might be intended that the stripe has best adhesion when applied to clearcoat. Meaning you will have to spray an intermediate clearcoat on the panels to be striped. Bake it off, then prep it again for the next round of clearcoat which will bury the stripe . Could be worth checking with how Ferrari do it. You would hate to see the paint peeling off in a couple of months. All the best

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +2

      This is a good question Robert. Fortunately its actually all covered in the WSM ... but great you mention it as I will show that in the video.

  • @chetbiddlecom6016
    @chetbiddlecom6016 2 года назад

    You are quickly becoming the man to go to for anything Ferrari - good job! As others have asked, how is your BB coming along? Maybe an update soon?

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      im going to try and film an update this week

  • @freddythefrog70
    @freddythefrog70 2 года назад

    Great vlog Scott, can't believe a twang noise is a precise measurement?

  • @PavlosP
    @PavlosP 2 года назад +15

    Was this a service that could have been completed prior to dropping the engine in?

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +5

      yes it sure could and would be a little easier. I assumed the car had been serviced prior to purchase ...should have double checked !

  • @ianrudge4580
    @ianrudge4580 2 года назад +1

    You’ve made very hard work of this. Just do it as a matter of course before you put the engine in!!!

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +1

      100% correct ian , stupidly assumed it had been done prior to car purchase. its actually pretty easy in the car to be fair

  • @narvul
    @narvul 2 года назад

    Did numerous timing belt changes myselve but never used the 'frequency app' didn't even know it existed. Used cheap Aliexpress special tools, a torque wrench from Lidl and standard tools.

  • @marceldegraaf5194
    @marceldegraaf5194 2 года назад +4

    Hello Scott, I like your videos special about the 512 BB, is there coming more or is it already sold? Thanks in advance

  • @larryblythe6822
    @larryblythe6822 2 года назад +2

    Yesssssss

  • @stuartkarshagen6274
    @stuartkarshagen6274 2 года назад

    That is a complex cam belt system 🤯, gotta love the Ferrari manual,just use a vice grip, it'll be fine 😂

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +1

      I know it always makes me laugh with the vice grips

  • @paulkhoury8685
    @paulkhoury8685 2 года назад +2

    STILL WAITING FOR THE BB512

  • @bmwloco
    @bmwloco 2 года назад

    In January, 2001, I was at The South Pole. Hard to believe it was 20 years ago, but so it is.

  • @pi.actual
    @pi.actual 2 года назад +1

    The fundamentals of working on a car are just like quantum mechanics. You can see it, you can touch it but you can't see it and touch it at the same time.

  • @markusjuenemann
    @markusjuenemann 2 года назад +7

    What about he BB?

  • @enzorari
    @enzorari 2 года назад +1

    13:17 Looks like emoji 😮😮

  • @markaldous4031
    @markaldous4031 2 года назад

    To me, someone who has done many cam belts, this doesn't look right. I'm probably wrong. I would say that the crank would need to be locked. Normally you'd loosen the bolts on the cam pulleys to allow them to rotate separate from the camshafts and therefore all the tension to be taken up by the tensioner.
    Just seems a bit odd to have the adjustment in the cam pulleys if you're not going to do anything with them.
    As I said, I'm probably wrong as not done one of these but just going by my own experience.

  • @user-mg9he3qj3n
    @user-mg9he3qj3n 2 года назад

    It’s tense 🚒👍

  • @thenilssons7653
    @thenilssons7653 2 года назад +5

    What happed with the 512 ??
    What happed with the 512 ??

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +2

      its coming very soon

  • @bjarnesyvertsen1133
    @bjarnesyvertsen1133 2 года назад

    I would also have checked the camshaft timing on the engine.

  • @EnglishTurbines
    @EnglishTurbines 2 года назад +1

    I can tell you now, those Ferrari mechanics don't piss about with that iPhone app to tension those cam belts... Especially since it has no precise adjusters, just an eccentric pivot ..🤔😳😳😋🇬🇧

    • @stuartd9741
      @stuartd9741 2 года назад

      There is a thing called resonance.
      Maybe not an issue on a normal car.
      But these engines are high reving.
      So perhaps there's some resonance of the belts at high RPM... Hence the frequency check?

    • @EnglishTurbines
      @EnglishTurbines 2 года назад

      @@stuartd9741 Nope, but tensioning belts using resonant frequency is a perfectly good method, I've used it myself on machinery drive belts...Given the awkwardness of the crude eccentric adjuster, I'm pretty sure the mechanics do it without. Engineers can get by using their skill.
      That App is for the layman who has no idea how tight or lose the belt should be...🤔🤔😳🇬🇧

  • @GoWstingray
    @GoWstingray 2 года назад +4

    Brilliant Work! I'm really confused about the tensioner and frequency though, surly when you release the pin it puts the correct pressure on the belt, I understand there would be some fine adjustment getting the idler in the correct position so the gap between the tensioner and the idler carrier is in spec, as the tensioner only has so much travel but how come it didn't pop out when you released the pin, as if it wasn't adding any tension to the belt? Thought the whole point of the hydraulic tensioner was to take the guess work out of the correct tension, seems daft that you have set everything up so precise measuring the frequency before pulling the pin to the point it doesn't even move lol Farrari? Thanks for the video

    • @peterlogan706
      @peterlogan706 2 года назад +1

      Definitely doesn’t make sense, I’ve never worked on a Ferrari but cars that I have worked on are ether hydraulic or a spring in the tensioner Bering, put the belt on put some pressure on the tensioner so the belt is loosest on the tensioner side then it’s tensioned from the spring then do the bolt up to keep it there.
      I have a mate who had a 355 and sold it earlier in the year, he used to do the belts on his, going to have to ask him about it now lol

    • @R00sc0
      @R00sc0 2 года назад +1

      Yeah, I also don't understand it. Seems almost like the tensioner is not a true tensioner but only some kind of "buffer": you set the tension manually and the tensioner only prevent the idler (and, so, the belt) from slacking.

    • @peterlogan706
      @peterlogan706 2 года назад +1

      @@R00sc0 once you do the bolt up the tensioner can’t effect belt tension at all.
      And being scott did the tension with the pin locking the tensioner it’s not even being used to set the tension, it may as well not be there, it really doesn’t make sense 🤷‍♂️

    • @R00sc0
      @R00sc0 2 года назад

      @@peterlogan706 yes, from what we can see it seems like so (I commented as soon as I saw him putting back the belt thinking that later he would unwound the idler bolt, but instead he torqued it).

    • @peterlogan706
      @peterlogan706 2 года назад

      @@R00sc0 yes it doesn’t make sense at all.
      I’m going to have to ask my mate if his 355 was the same and ask what he thinks, I know he had done the belts himself a few times over the 10 years that he had it, his pretty switched on with stuff like that.

  • @SuperRell83
    @SuperRell83 2 года назад +1

    Being from the U.S. all I could see was a child seat being in the drivers seat lol

  • @Lamborghini-Real-Lover
    @Lamborghini-Real-Lover 2 года назад

    Super RUclips Kanal.

  • @GalvanizedGreatness
    @GalvanizedGreatness 2 года назад

    With vice grips anyone can become a Ferrari technician

  • @willbennett7508
    @willbennett7508 2 года назад +1

    If you’ve got a digital torque wrench I wouldn’t use an extension

  • @sl5946
    @sl5946 2 года назад

    I'm really enjoying this series but what's up with the other projects? I'm excited to see how the black 308 turns out

  • @cosmaninashiva6115
    @cosmaninashiva6115 2 года назад +1

    Das ist doch mal sehr schön gezeigt, danach könnte man es fast schon selbst machen, doch wofür braucht man das Spanner-Teil das an die Spannrolle geht?

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      das hilft, die Riemenscheibenspannung zu erhöhen, während Sie die Schraube festziehen

    • @cosmaninashiva6115
      @cosmaninashiva6115 2 года назад

      @@Ratarossa Danke für die schnelle Antwort, Pfiffiges Konzept, habe ich am mondial aber nicht, ansonsten, dann mal ein frohes neues Jahr!!

  • @vogs72
    @vogs72 2 года назад

    How about a Ratarossa badged set of those spanner’s/sockets that don’t come in a regular set/you always lose. I always need those ones.

  • @kevinm8715
    @kevinm8715 2 года назад +3

    I really do love this series, but I'm curious about what has happened to the 512BBi. Any hints?

    • @ASAPZ838740923874
      @ASAPZ838740923874 2 года назад +1

      Parts for that car were already very hard to find before covid, I couldn’t imagine what it is now.

    • @organiccold
      @organiccold 2 года назад

      Is there, around the corner. He should be back to it after this series

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      soon Kevin ....BBi very soon

  • @jamesisaphotographer
    @jamesisaphotographer 2 года назад +1

    I just can’t believe that anyone can not look after a car like this. It’s a Ferrari - not some crap runabout.

    • @stuartd9741
      @stuartd9741 2 года назад

      I'm sure alot of Ferrari owners.leave them in the garage 80% of the time.
      Let's not forget a high mileage Ferrari devalues it substantially..

  • @sleepingwarrior4618
    @sleepingwarrior4618 2 года назад +1

    What's happened to the white BBi?

  • @markscott9760
    @markscott9760 2 года назад +1

    196nm😵. Sounds like knuckle stripping strength, especially when it slips🤬

  • @molsky13
    @molsky13 2 года назад

    Before I put that engine in I would have checked the belts

  • @BXtremP
    @BXtremP 2 года назад +4

    Yall whining like babies about the BBi, you act like spoiled brats thinking this guy actually owes you anything, but he doesn't. He's just a bloke sharing his passion for Ferrari and the projects he's working on. You don't get to tell him what he's gonna work on or not, those are his projects and he can do however the fucks he wants, if you don't like it, get lost. Crazy how people on RUclips tend to think because they're suscribed to a youtuber, it makes that youtuber their stooge and he has to meet all of their demands to please them.

    • @FirstLast-bi8xi
      @FirstLast-bi8xi 2 года назад +1

      Hear hear!

    • @uisperfectemail9720
      @uisperfectemail9720 2 года назад

      At this point this is a for-profit endeavor, listening to demand is part of fulfilling it.

    • @stuartd9741
      @stuartd9741 2 года назад

      I agree.
      Perhaps if Scott did a 10 minute update video on progress might quell the BB demand.
      This Stradale Spyder build has been interesting if not to everyones taste.
      And he's getting paid to do it.
      That BB build ain't cheap.
      Not sure people realize that..

    • @BXtremP
      @BXtremP 2 года назад

      @@stuartd9741 Exactly. Sure his sponsoring are getting boring, and some people don't like this project, but the dude needs money to work on Ferrari, and a shit ton, so I'd rather have him do this stuff which is still some divertisement, rather than him opening up a crowfunding!

  • @mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm420
    @mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm420 2 года назад

    Exposed carbon-fibre polyester might have been fashionable 10 years ago but it now looks really dated and any rebuild now should seriously consider removing it pronto...or covering it in paint.

  • @yveslegh
    @yveslegh 2 года назад +1

    👍👍👍👍

  • @newtcrew
    @newtcrew 2 года назад +1

    Orrrrrrr..... January 1st, 2004. Either way, probably best to replace the tensioner anyways.

  • @robchiang3153
    @robchiang3153 2 года назад

    Are you painting on the stripe or laying the vinyl stripe down and lacquering over it?

  • @edwardsfamily6184
    @edwardsfamily6184 2 года назад

    Hi ratterossa that bmx in your garage is it a mongoose if it is I use to own one of them when I was a kid but sadly someone nicked it mine had blue mag wheels on it

  • @klobucarpa
    @klobucarpa 2 года назад

    So, two belts, and what I presume is a gear drive in the middle!? I will never pretend to understand Ferraris.

  • @keithm.404
    @keithm.404 2 года назад

    Tensioner bearing be like.... 😲

  • @kavinskysmith4094
    @kavinskysmith4094 2 года назад

    I gotta be honest I've kinda been skipping the videos on this build as I kinda lost love for the ferrari 360 after seeing how much better the 4 series cars seem to be with how much hype their is around the 458 italia and 430 scuderia in particular,
    and also the F355, theirs just something about it that outdoes the 360 in every way it seems, although I must wonder if the news and info about ferrari docturing the press cars to be way faster than they were in production, has kinda caused that, given the Ferrari 355 was kinda the 348 pushed right to the edge, and the 360 stradale just seems to come across as the car promised rather than something like that, like the more I learn about it the more deflated I get about the 360 in general, granted I probably wouldnt be saying that if I ever drove the thing, but such is the nature of enthusiasm, it's fickle to say the least
    so needless to say I am really looking forward to when you get back to the black 308 and the berlineta boxer, as no one has done anything on that car before, and the black 308 is a cool beater that has some movie provenance in the hidden
    which neros77 used for one of his music videos, the one titled actrazor killswitch a few years ago, plus who the hell wouldnt want to blast around in a black 308 like that, that you can use daily without feeling guilty about it and its got a cool story of a failed resto behind it
    and I think I actually kinda know who you bought it from inadvertently too given they've got a bunch of 914's listed, a car I'm always on the lookout for given my fathers finally retiring after all these years and might be keen on going back to one
    all of which seem to be in either rough shape, or good but they dont really give the true mileage.
    and their is also more than a few 308's but sadly I dont think he's a ferrari man lol

  • @ROBSMODELCARS
    @ROBSMODELCARS 2 года назад +5

    What's happening with the BB?

    • @marcryvon
      @marcryvon 2 года назад

      Can't wait to see it again myself but, I guess the man here has to earn some money since this is a client's project...

  • @PFLEONARDI0906
    @PFLEONARDI0906 2 года назад +1

    Would a safety wire on the tensioner pin do any good?

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      its ok but needs to be strong to take quite a bit of force

  • @liambrady9852
    @liambrady9852 2 года назад +1

    Why in gods name did you not do the belts when the engine was out?

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      Liam YES i should have but assumed it had all been done prior to purchase of the car.

  • @joejung7401
    @joejung7401 2 года назад

    Lovely BMX. is that a power lite or haro

  • @olevia4942
    @olevia4942 2 года назад

    May I inquire what year this model is from? Thank you so much

  • @alekseib5077
    @alekseib5077 2 года назад

    Why didn't you replace the belt on the removed engine?

  • @modelmania825
    @modelmania825 2 года назад +1

    why didn't you do the belt when the engine was out , would have been so much easier !!!

    • @VolkerHett
      @VolkerHett 2 года назад

      Exactly what I was wondering about, too.

  • @uisperfectemail9720
    @uisperfectemail9720 2 года назад

    What’s up with the paint in the door jabs?

  • @jacquesraymond6892
    @jacquesraymond6892 2 года назад

    Once again, good job achieved Scott. Can't wait for the final result. OH YEH!!!!! By the way... What about the 512BB???

  • @matthewernst2318
    @matthewernst2318 2 года назад +1

    Scott, y didn’t u do all this when engine was out? Ernie

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      really should have but stupidly assumed it had been done prior to purchase .... still its actually pretty easy in car

  • @vincentwitjes5106
    @vincentwitjes5106 2 года назад +1

    start making posters of your ratarossa ferrari as the other cars you own might be copyrighted

  • @daviddelaney5180
    @daviddelaney5180 2 года назад +4

    What happed with the 512|?

  • @marcryvon
    @marcryvon 2 года назад

    Metal "carpeting" ? 😳

  • @patrickstillhard1321
    @patrickstillhard1321 2 года назад +5

    Can you say something about the 512 BB Project? Any news?

    • @EliteRock
      @EliteRock 2 года назад +2

      4:38

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад +1

      i'm going to try and film an update this week for everyone

  • @russellrobson7632
    @russellrobson7632 2 года назад +4

    Is it just me, where is the BBi??

    • @Ratarossa
      @Ratarossa  2 года назад

      its not just you LOL .... its coming very soon

  • @onesri6108
    @onesri6108 2 года назад +1

    Any advice on 1964 Honda s600?

    • @oldanslo
      @oldanslo 2 года назад

      LS swap.

    • @stuartd9741
      @stuartd9741 2 года назад

      @@oldanslo lol
      nah, Honda S2000 lump in it + turbo.
      instant drag racer....

  • @kentmckean6795
    @kentmckean6795 2 года назад +1

    I have to ask, you had the engine out, why didn't you do these upgrades with it out of the car!!! Even if the timing belts had been done 1 year ago, I would have changed everything with the engine out of the car. And the spark plugs? Come on...

    • @dsmithwc04
      @dsmithwc04 2 года назад

      Thanks Captain hindsight.

  • @sishabadab6570
    @sishabadab6570 2 года назад +3

    Why didn't you service the engine while it was out of the car.?

    • @ImperrfectStranger
      @ImperrfectStranger 2 года назад

      1:55 Not his car, didn't know the history.

    • @phil5175
      @phil5175 2 года назад +2

      @@ImperrfectStranger He would have had a much better access to inspect the belts and tension pulleys ETC. He also changed the plugs which would be a lot easier when the engine was out. How come the history suddenly comes to light. Sorry don't make a lot of sense. But Scott does like to do things the hard way looking at some of his other videos.

    • @ImperrfectStranger
      @ImperrfectStranger 2 года назад

      @@phil5175 Everything is easier in hindsight. Yes he does things the hard way, but that's the point of some of his videos. He tries to prove that amateurs can service these cars without the use of, say, expensive lifts or taking the engine out of the car. Would I buy a car he worked on? To be honest, no. I'm still paying for the work the previous owners of my Ferrari did themselves.

    • @FirstLast-bi8xi
      @FirstLast-bi8xi 2 года назад

      Why didn't you listen to the words he speaks during the video?

    • @phil5175
      @phil5175 2 года назад +1

      @@FirstLast-bi8xi Simple ,with the engine on the floor What moron wouldn't do a close up inspection on all the serviceable items including plugs on a project like this. He admits he cocked up.

  • @teoff16
    @teoff16 2 года назад +1

    I rather pull my teeth out then work on that car.

    • @stuartd9741
      @stuartd9741 2 года назад

      Here you go I'll give you a pair of mole grips - do it the Ferrari way lol🤣

  • @jonathantennantphotography2869
    @jonathantennantphotography2869 2 года назад +1

    Gosh am I the first to comment and view ?

  • @CM-dr2ny
    @CM-dr2ny 2 года назад +1

    just buy an electric car already to avoid all this drama

    • @ImperrfectStranger
      @ImperrfectStranger 2 года назад

      You don't think electric cars will have major problems when they are 20 years old?

    • @seshelbow336
      @seshelbow336 2 года назад +1

      Some people prefer an Apple Watch.....others prefer a Rolex.

    • @FirstLast-bi8xi
      @FirstLast-bi8xi 2 года назад +1

      Just buy a vibrating fleshlight instead of being with a person? Ok then.