I have installed love jugs,10 row oil cooler non fan , external breather,V&H FP 3 fuel pack and am about to add a tank lift kit,i live in Australia and it gets hot after a ride today the hottest the bike got was 221f or 105 Celsius as we have metric,i know this reading is accurate as my FP3 fuel pack can monitor the engine head temp the love jugs work that well that the head temperature actually droppped below the 221f at idle,all these mods ive done were after watching DK custom's videos,my bike is a 2014 Fatboy lo twin cam i have definitely solved the heat problem with these mods,i bought the bike second hand with very low mileage/kilometres and did these mods straight away so im expecting a decent life span,i have heard that the M8 can be problematic and the love jugs arent as effective on them as the twin cams,but they are the main reason for the heat reduction on my bike definitely not that attractive but very effective.
The minute I rode my brand new 2007 FLHRCI off the dealers lot I sensed she was running lean. After a few thousand miles I was certain. She was lean, hot, pinging. After a few times back to the dealer and a bunch of shrugs of the shoulders I purchased an SE Race Tuner. Dyno'ed her myself by putting my laptop in my saddlebag, developed a MAP where I retarded the timing AND enrichened the fuel, also changed plugs to NGK DCPR8E's. Yea I lost some MPG, but my bikes been running cool ever since (just turned 85,000miles).
Yep, the 2007's were the hottest year. All 07 & later Twin Cams run lean and hot from the factory, but 07 was the worst. Glad you took matters into your own hands and got your bike running how you like it. 👍😎👍
My Love Jugs have worked. Where I would hit 300+ on my CH temp before during stop and go, I rarely go over 260 now. It's also helped my oil temp by keeping it 20 degrees cooler than normal.
I completely agree! They run hot! During the summer months I ride early mornings or the evening hours. And this is a 103 twin cam stock. My bike loves the colder months.
I have learned to ride my 2023 107 Street Glide in a manner that avoids excessive idling, such as stop and go riding. So far, my oil temps stay between 202-231*. HD needs to work on the overheating issues, such as head fans and an oil cooler fan. My guess is they will go to a water cooled engine in the near future. I have no desire to buy a new bank anytime soon. However, I would consider a new bike with a water cooled version. I have learned a ton watching your videos over the years. Keep up the good work :-)
Thank you, appreciate your business, and glad you are finding the videos useful. 👍 Another interesting thing coming down the pike from HD later this year...VVT. It will be interesting to see how that works out heat wise.
@@DKCustomProducts Yes, I agree... in my opinion, HD has to work on the overheating issue pronto. Indian is already making a water-cooled engine for their cruisers. If only HD was willing to solve this overheating issue, they would stay ahead of the competition by leaps and bounds. Indian is interesting, BMW is so so, and the Japanese got out of the cruiser market. I will one day stop by an Indian dealership, if I can find one, and sit on one of their cruisers. Until then, I will continue to own a HD. I have a couple of buddies who ride Indian motorcycles. Both of them have issues with their bikes. Fuel vapor lock when bike gets hot and ridden at high altitudes and electrical gremlins. this is my 3rd HD and I have my fingers crossed it will survive longer than the first two : - )
I think people are confused because you’re talking about oil temps and engine temps in the same sentence. The sensor in the head isn’t the oil temp and isn’t going to be below 230 on a hot day no matter what you do.
Yes, it can be a little confusing. That is why we referenced the video during the sentence you mentioned. We cannot put every detail in every video...here is the specific point in the referenced video where we talk about the differences between oil temps and the heat sensor temp in the head. ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html btw, this particular bike is a Twin Cam. Twin Cam's absolutely will run at 230F and less, on a hot day, hard riding, both in oil temp AND head temp sensor, WHEN they are set up correctly. If the sensor in the head is more than 230 F, it is Not running optimally...and if it hits 270F the ECM is programmed to retard the timing in an attempt to cool it down before damage occurs. Here is a video showing that- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
My story exactly ! 2021 FLHTK , did an SE 122 kit (not enough ). Did SE 133 kit with aftermarket cam/tune/exhaust (150hp). I did not do the SE oil pump because 2021 allegedly had solved the issues. Water pump went bad, severe overheat. Warranty replaced water pump, passed compression check. After overheat I started experiencing sumping symptoms. Decided to replace oil pump with SE pump. Crank runout way beyond spec.! Total engine rebuild needed. Tech said everything from the crank to the valve springs were fatigued from the overheating. Bike ran normal locally, but once at sustained high speeds. Temps rose and sumping began. $14k later, 166hp SE131, S&S crank, SE oil pump, you name it! I rode Hayabusa's for 20 years at 100mph+. Never more than tires and oil changes. Sorry these HD motors are junk, nothing like a factory that puts out known defective products. And than voids your warranty at any possible moment . Great videos , thanks.
Heat absolutely is a killer. Yes ago I worked at a independent VW shop and rebuilt beetle and bus engines. The engines would most of the time 70-80k and then die. Heat was the main cause stretching the valves and burning the valves. Taking them apart the cylinders had discoloration and evidence of excessive heat. On my car I added an external oil cooler under the car and the engine life was doubled. I did for many others and they had similar results. The more you can do to keep the H-D engine running 210 to 230 the better. There is no magic additive, oil etc that works nearly as well as modifying the bike to run cooler.
Lmao 😂😂😂 210deg,, I get that the first hour of riding!! Come on now an 05 twin cam kicks up some mad heat, I'm looking at 280 in the garage after a hot run on a hot day ....easy. No oil cooler no love jugs nothing
Personal experience is i use straight 50 weight amsoil in all 3 of my bikes! 37,000 on my twin cam! Change that oil frequently! Oil is a lot cheaper than engine parts! It gets hot here in Florida all the time!😂
@Bratman Productions long time master HD tech told me that the problem with 60 weight can gum up your rockers and on initial startups can shorten their life!
@@johnhammered3321 That is a good point John... I guess time will tell. At this point in my couple of years of running the Amsoil 60 syn. here in hotter then hell Redding, Ca. lol. Sooo far my top end is quieter then it has ever been. I am curious what part of the country you are located at.?
@Bratman Productions 85° Here in mid Florida today, with occasional showers, tomorrow sunny Temps will be in the upper 80s. I have 3 bikes and all run 50. Our August Temps will average 90+. The biggest issue with these Temps is the humidity. My catch can on my twin cam gets more water that oil. I always let my bikes cool down before I bring them in my garage. That seems to help. My Pan america is water cooled so it rarely sees Temps over 230! After seeing all the issues with these m8s I take special care of not overheating and cool down after a ride.
@@DKCustomProducts It will be a plus IMO it will play nice with the knock sensors and maybe have a desired good effect on roll on throttle, the secret to VVT is correct oil viscosity and clean oil
That is going to be a bugger...it is amazing how many folks do not follow the existing guidelines for oil viscosity. eeek! I am very interested to see if HD did enough testing that the first adopters do not have a lot of problems with it (IF they follow directions on maintenance).
Excellent video, guys. Retired Mechanical Engineer in the powertrain industry, here. Oil oxidation life is cut app. 50% for every 18 degrees F above 140 degrees F. Do the math - it's exponential decay. Mineral or synthetic. The threshold for oil longevity for synthetic oil being obviously longer. I use only Red Line V-Twin 20W-50 in my M8 for this reason - base oil is blend with polyol ester, the highest temp resistant oil of all (ex. exotics like glycols and silicones). Note: not employed or compensated by Red Line in any way. That still doesn't solve the root problem - an air-cooled motor with no cooling airflow stuck in traffic on a hot day. Even rear cylinder cutout isn't enough to save it from heat wear / seizing. It's unacceptable design. Briggs & Stratton's have a flywheel fan for a reason - why don't Harley's have a thermostatic fan? It's ridiculous. MoCo finally released an oil cooler fan for M8, but only fits touring models. What about us softail guys/
All good points. Thanks for sharing the info on oil life and heat. Fortunately the larger oil cooler on the M8 Softails does a really good job while moving....here is a video on it- ruclips.net/video/h7EdjR8l8Ag/видео.html But here is a list of some things you can do to cool it down more- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
@@DKCustomProducts - excellent list, thanks. I've done a number of those, was looking for thermostatically controlled fan. MoCo's accessory oil cooler fan only mounts on touring models, not softails. I asked why, they don't know. Wonderful. That would help some, but the real issue is cooling the cylinders with airflow when sitting in traffic. Shutting engine down in traffic is dangerous IMO and has heat soak issues as well. Many of us have engine guards installed, your single fan kit won't work because coil relocate goes where the guard installs on the front frame. You might consider an alternate solution for M8's with guards.
+1.5qt Baker oil pan , oil cooler , Transformer external breathing system , oil filter relocation kit , 606 air filter assembly , woods TW555 cams , S&S TC3 cam plate and oil pump , free flowing exhaust with thunder torque inserts , wind deflectors wings , a good tune from Fuel Moto and engine cooling fans and all last year and so far this year I haven't seen Temps on my power vision go above 210° - 220° and oil Temps around 195° -205° on my oil pan Temp gauge here in South Central KY and I ride my 2009 Tri-Glide like I stole it 😅
@@DKCustomProducts thanks for your time and research on this subject, thanks goes to DK CUSTOM AND FUEL MOTO AND DYNOJET AND LOVE JUG FANS for keeping us informed and running cool 😎
I have an S&S 124 it runs really hot. Can you suggest an oil temperature gauge, I have no idea how hot is running. In stop and go, I get an engine light.
JesCustoms makes analog oil temp dipstick gauges. That is what we have been using for years. Here is a video you may find useful for cooling down your ride- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
That is much too hot for your bike to be running in 65° weather. Here is a 2 page written report on Why and How to cool down your TC & M8 that you may find useful/interesting - www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm Part 2 www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-your-twin-cam-engine-part-ii-dk-cl-tc-dn-2.htm Here is a full playlist of videos on the subject that you may also find useful/interesting - ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C Please feel free to reach out with any questions; Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828 Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
I'm on my fourth Milwaulkee 8 - 2 107s - 114 - 117 . I have ridden in 105 - 110 degree heat hour after hour , put over 32000 on my first 107 and thousands of miles on the others . I rode my 2021 - 114 St Glide 11000 miles to the east coast East Port Maine Florida Keys and back to northern California , many times through intense dessert heat , and never missed a beat . Is it just me or what ? I've have never had a problem with heat on any of my Harleys .
The big question is will they go close to a 100,000 before the hours of heat take the motor out. Stop and go traffic in the South is hell on them. I run love jugs, leave the Eitms on and keep Amzoil changed every 2500 and have had great luck this far. Hopefully it is an investment in the future. Time will bare it out.
My M8 bike just runs at 280~285F no matter what during normal operation. I got that outlaw oil filter on the bike, but no relocation kit. In the slower twisties my bike can heat up to 315F, according to my powervision. Back on the freeways it cools back down to 280~285. I just kinda accepted that that's how it runs and oh well. I have the hightemp warning zone set on my bike to 325F. Doesn't seem to be the worst thing ever, I would like to to run cooler but... there doesn't seem to be a really good solution for my bike. I'm wondering if my bungking crashbar or clutch cable position is creating flow issues making the engine run hotter? It's always run this warm.
Hey Fran, I know we have discussed this before, don't remember the details. Have you done all the options listed in this report? www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm It is really interesting how some bike only need a few of the things done to get the temps down to optimum, whereas others need more. 🙁
They absolutely help. I have run the Wards (before the LJ's, and they were the best), and I've run the LJ's, and now am running the ForceFlow. All of them make a significant difference. 👍😎👍
One thing I noticed is when talking temps, sensors, location, ideal temps etc..in most all the videos, including yours, they mention or get mixed up all the facts, locations or sensors. Most commonly is oil temp vs Engine Temp, or some times Head Temp values.
We try and be clear, but we can only make the videos so long, and can't cover every detail in every video. In our videos we try and be very clear when talking about temperatures. 1. There is oil temperature, which we measure at the tank. It should never be more than 230 F. Here is a video on that- ruclips.net/video/M9ta84TmROc/видео.html 2. Engine Temperature, measured by the OEM heat sensor and displayed on the Power Vision as ET. It is different for Sportsters, Twin Cams and M8's. Here is a video on the ideal temp for each type of engine- ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html The only other temp we talk about sometimes is Felt Heat, and here is a video on it- ruclips.net/video/N0kLaVQhbW4/видео.html
My 2008 Buell Ulysess with 1203 CC Thunderstorm engine has air scoops to cool the rear Cylinder.. an Oil Cooler with an air scoop .. Piston oiler to cool the pistons with cooled oil .. and an Electric cooling fun in a duct to draw air acorss the heads if they reach over 417 F running and stay on until the heads are cooled down to 230F when the engine is shut off. Now the Fan is blowing fuses and I have to pull the rear shock out in order to get to it.. All the same Buell address cooling problems for the air cooled Evolution engine.. HD could have done the same, but they never did until recently ..
@@DKCustomProducts I noticed that some of the new HD's have oil coolers on them . Skidoo has a new water/Methanol injection system for their two stroke Turbo snowmobiles. I have Water Injection on a Disel Truck , Snow Performance, but the components are ver bulky and draw a lot of Amps. Water / Methanol Injection is a great way to cool and make more power from an air cooled engine..
@@DKCustomProducts The Buell Thunderstorm engine makes 103 HP where the Sportster 1203 makes 74 HP Buell is 10 to 1 compression and Sportster is 9to 1 if I can recall correclty ..
Both Statements you make are Not True. On Evolution, Twin Cam and M8's, Harley clearly states in the manual that the normal operating temp for oil is 230 F. This can be seen in your manual, and here is a photo of it- www.dkcustomproducts.com/image/Links_2/Normal%20Oil%20Temp.png The temp in this video is of the heat sensor temp, embedded in the cylinder head of his Twin Cam engine. Harley has both Twin Cams and M8's programmed to retard the timing, cutting power, in an attempt to cool the engine down when the temp sensor in the cylinder head hit's 270 F. You can see on the dyno, in the following video, what happens to Harley TC's and M8's when the cylinder head temp hits 270F- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html 400 F on a TC & M8 are horribly destructive to the engine (besides being power robbers). On the Sporty Evolution, 400F from the cylinder head temp sensor is just a tad higher than you want it to be...not because it runs hotter than the TC's or M8's, it is purely a function of the location of the temp sensor. Full, actual, accurate information on cylinder head temps and oil temps are shown in this video- ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
The exact same thing happened to me! They told me my oil pump clogged and caused the flywheel, jugs and pistons to cook! I had to pay it all because I tuned the engine to a stock custom config at 6000 miles!! I upgraded to the 122 big bore kit. Btw I have a 2019 Ultra that only had a free breather air cleaner and tab mufflers.
I completely understand. I was not ready to give up on mine, so over a decade of R&D, along with 400K+ miles of testing, and we can still keep the temps down to optimum for the engine, and comfortable for the rider and passenger. Written report- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Damn in 95 degree weather if i ride for more then hour im at 310 plus on my 114 m8. What options do i have for cooling cause i cant fit love jugs on my fxlrs.
We have a written report/list at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm There is a video series of the above written report at this link- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C Here is a video with 10 Tip that are low and no cost- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
Yes, permanent, performance oil filters will filter better, dissipate heat better, AND reduce parasitic drag on the engine. Here's a link to many more of their benefits- www.dkcustomproducts.com/outlaw-high-performance-cleanable-oil-filter-in-anodized-black-dk-ocof-ab.htm
The Coolflow fan definitely helps reduce the heat the passenger (and rider to a lesser degree) feels while stopped and up to around 30 kph. On a Trike, the most heat is probably felt by the passenger when cruising at 80 KM or more on a hot day. The Coolflow does nothing for that. Better to cool down the actual heat of the engine. Here is a video with low and no cost ways to do that- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html And here is a written report with all the things that can be done to cool down your Freewheeler- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
I have the horsepower Inc fan that goes behind the oil cooler and love jugs mini mites extremely hot days 225 80 degree days 204 is that too cool or is that okay that's oil temp
That is not too cool. It is close to impossible to get a Twin Cam or M8 at the ideal oil temp of 190-195 F, so when we say the optimum max oil temp is 230 F, that is really a compromise, because it is very difficult to get it below that on a hot day when riding hard. Your oil temp is great! What is your engine temp, per the heat sensor embedded in the cylinder head?
@@DKCustomProducts I don't know I don't have a temperature gauge on my dash I only have oil temperature but I have a heat gun if that would help shooting the cylinders
The infrared will not give an accurate reading of the ET that the ECM uses. Video on that below. With your oil at those temps, it is very likely that your ET is good. ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html
It certainly reduces the amount of heat radiating from the rear header pipe. 👍 We've made a few videos on the EITMS that you may find interesting- ruclips.net/video/T2aG284iCKc/видео.html ruclips.net/video/5OTSwYFPABE/видео.html
@@dmac620 hey I bought and used it the other day and it's really well but I don't know how accurate it is. It's showing my front cylinder around 195 and my rear runs around 280 and 375
It can give you comparisons when swapping out parts, but it will not give you an accurate reading of the temps that are important...and it is only useful for comparisons when used correctly. We have an entire video on the use of heat temp guns here- ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html
Modern Harley's have a heat sensor, that is what the ECM uses to make adjustments in timing and fuel. Infrared Heat Guns will not give you useful info on what is happening with your engine. In the absence of a PV or FP3/4, the best way is to see your oil temp after riding for at least an hour. Generally (very loosely) a Twin Cam Engine Temp will be about the same as the oil temp. An M8 will be about 30-40 F higher than the oil temp. Here is a video where we talk about this - ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
Yeah, that is because of what we outlined in the infrared heat gun video....it is very unlikely (near impossible) for there to be that much actual variance between the front and rear cylinders.
@@DKCustomProducts very true my man. I just picked up a breather kit, for 2005 Fatboy, but I'm using the screaming eagle black plate it doesn't work with my configuration I have the back plate with the rubber grommets, do you guys sell a separate bracket to go under the breathers and to support the air cleaner itself thank you
@@-MrRichBiker1967 Please contact us via email or phone. We have kits that will work with SE air cleaners, but depending on which on you have will depend on which kit is needed. Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828 Here is a link to the most popular kits for SE air cleaners for Twin Cams- www.dkcustomproducts.com/diy-external-breather-systems-528.htm
This is real simple people. For maximum life of the engine. Here are your targets. Cylinder head temperatures - 400˚ F. or below. Oil temperature - 165˚ F. - 220˚ F.
Good info on the oil, but on the heat sensor for the heads, this may very well be true on non-Harley engines. It is NOT true regarding HD's....variable is the position of the heat sensor. As shown in the video linked below, Harley has their heat sensor in the Twin Cam positioned where it should never read over 230 F, and in the M8 the position is different, but should not go over 260 F. ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html Here is a video, on a dyno, showing real time what happens to Twin Cams and M8's when they hit 270 F. There are also dyno charts in this video showing how much power is lost at 270 F and higher. ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
@@DKCustomProducts You are absolutely correct about the position of the sensor. The above info is from Lycoming, an aircraft engine manufacture. Their temp sensor is taken from the spark plug area of cylinder. When I use my temp gun on my bike after a ride (M8) I see around 280 on the rear and 260 up front. As long as im under 350 on this method, im happy with my temps. Oil runs around 195-200. Live in houston,Tx. Good info. Have a few of your products on my bike!
Temp on the outside of the cylinder does not reflect what is going on inside the metal, where the heat sensor is...but it can possibly give you some comparisons. We have done a video on temp guns that you may find interesting- ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html Those are great oil temps. Thanks for your business, we appreciate it! 👍
This video is not about how much heat oil can or cannot take!!! It is about how much heat the metal components in a Harley Engine are designed to take. Harley clearly does not want the cylinder head temp (at the heat sensor location) to go over 270 F...because at 270 F they drastically retard the timing in an effort to cool the engine down. You can see it happen on the dyno in this video- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html The live action on the dyno, and the several dyno charts show what Harley is doing, and how serious they are about not wanting the temp to go higher than that.
heat is a killer, to anything, except sex. oil, good oil is a great start. air cooled engines need all the help they can get, reduce the friction, reduce the heat. depending on climate temps, syn oil is best anywhere you ride. i use to use Slick 50, the old Slick with Tefflon, no longer made, it made a difference in the motor and trans temp. not primary case. i now use motor coat, it works. no matter what you use, change the oil 3,000-4,000 miles. tks good review.
Thank you for the comment and info. 👍 We have been researching this and finding solutions to lowering the OEM temps for over a decade. Here is a Report on the subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm And here is a video series on the Report- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
Here is a video with 10 low & no cost ways- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html Here is a written report on why and how to cool it down- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm Here is a video series on every trick in the book to cool it down- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C Feel free to email or call with any questions. Support@DKCustomProducts.com 662-252-8828
You are correct, that is true with most oils, but this video is not about how much heat oil can or cannot take. It is about how much heat the metal components in a Harley Engine are designed to take. Harley clearly does not want the cylinder head temp (at the heat sensor location) to go over 270 F...because at 270 F they drastically retard the timing in an effort to cool the engine down. You can see it happen on the dyno in this video- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html The live action on the dyno, and the several dyno charts show what Harley is doing, and how serious they are about not wanting the temp to go higher than that.
Many report they get 10 or 20 degree drop running Amsoil. We have not observed that in any of our tests....BUT, even if we did get a 20* drop from 300 to 280. That is Still Too Hot. Harley wants the engine to run where the oil is not going over 230 Degrees F (not for the oil, but for the engines' sake). They also cut power when the ET hits 270 F. You can see that in the video at this link- ruclips.net/video/MF0hO-w2hz8/видео.html
Yeah, unfortunately that is the experience of many. Here is a video with 10 low cost & no cost ways to cool your ride down. ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
It does not have to be a gamble. There are very specific things that can be done to cool it down to the optimum range. Here is a short list of low and no cost things- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html Here is a complete list in written format- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm Here is a complete list in a video series- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
We all know except for the heads the Milwaukee-8 is a pile of shit. It's designed and built as cheaply as possible, it loaded with imported parts, but the real problem, the fuel injection is so lean the engine runs hot. Blame the factory for a cheap motor, blame the EPA, for the heat problem.
NO, we do NOT all "Know" that. While the Sporty and Twin Cam have been too lean from the factory, the Milwaukee-Eight is NOT Too Lean. Here are two video showing the testing of the AFR on a variety of M8's. They are NOT Too Lean, and the OEM AFR on them is not contributing to excessive heat. ruclips.net/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/видео.html ruclips.net/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/видео.html And here is a link to a written report, that has many AFR charts of the OEM M8 Tune- www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
If that is your opinion, based on, I don't know what, you are entitled to it. Seems you have not actually accumulated much actual data to form an informed opinion. I do not consider mine garbage, nor do hundreds of folks I know consider them garbage. We enjoy riding all over the continent.
@@DKCustomProducts oh come on you guys work on them. They're a throw away motor. Something goes wrong with a rod or the crank, flywheel assembly, you throw it away. Look at how the factory cheaped out on the lifter blocks, did away with Timken bearings. Anything to save the company money. Hence junk. I'll stick with my EVO, I can work on it, replace internal engine parts forever and I don't have to deal with Harley Davidson. Not that they would help, no more parts for the EVO, can't even find a dealership to work on it. I have very little good to say about the company itself. Now that they're teaming up with Budweiser even less.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 Throwing the baby out with the bathwater has never been a good choice in my observations. Yes, they have cut costs, going with less expensive parts in many cases. Yes, an Evo is easier to work on. Yes, more and more it is parts replacement rather than repair or rebuild But that does not mean that they are junk or unreliable...they have some challenges, just like the Evo did when it came out. What I find most disconcerting about the new bikes is all the electronics, that are not repairable....but it is a trade-off for so many folks that want the "conveniences" that the electronics deliver.
It is 300F as displayed on the Power Vision via the ET gauge. Here is a video where we talk about the differences between oil temps and the heat sensor temp in the head. ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
HARLEY-DAVIDSON JUST JOINED THE WOKE MOVEMENT! As a lifetime loyal owner and rider, I am SO disappointed that Harley-Davidson has agreed to place the HD logo on the front of new Budlight cans to help bailout Anheuser-Busch from their advertising disaster. Harley is now no better than Budweiser and cares more about its ESG score than its deep-rooted customers. Just thought I'd share this information with your viewers in case they haven't heard yet.
Yep, this ESG thing is wreaking havoc with many companies, HD included. We talked about it in a video about 6 months ago, and then again in another video about 3 months ago...in this link- ruclips.net/video/ArMNyQiRcpQ/видео.html
I like 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 miles and more. Yes I do have complaints according to Power Vision the reading for the engine temperature is running in the 300s to 350° for engine temperature and add 20 to 25° on top of that for head temperature according to Power Vision readings. I have a Oil Cooler stock with a fan. Now I got these temperatures with my 107 and I get it with my 131. But I have a Harley oil dipstick that’s got an LED on it I register usually three or four for oil and as far as temperature goes, I range anywhere from 260 to 270 plus degrees according to that LED Harley Dipstick.
Man, that is not good. You may find the links below to a written report, and to a video, interesting & useful. www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
Many reasons: 1. The fan that David mentions 2. The epa was not as stringent back then in regards to AFR and cam timing 3. The orientation of the cylinders is different on a HD, with the rear cylinder sitting between the front cylinder and the frame.
I have installed love jugs,10 row oil cooler non fan , external breather,V&H FP 3 fuel pack and am about to add a tank lift kit,i live in Australia and it gets hot after a ride today the hottest the bike got was 221f or 105 Celsius as we have metric,i know this reading is accurate as my FP3 fuel pack can monitor the engine head temp the love jugs work that well that the head temperature actually droppped below the 221f at idle,all these mods ive done were after watching DK custom's videos,my bike is a 2014 Fatboy lo twin cam i have definitely solved the heat problem with these mods,i bought the bike second hand with very low mileage/kilometres and did these mods straight away so im expecting a decent life span,i have heard that the M8 can be problematic and the love jugs arent as effective on them as the twin cams,but they are the main reason for the heat reduction on my bike definitely not that attractive but very effective.
Great to hear you have your heat under control. Those are good temps!
Thanks for your comment and for your business, we appreciate it. 👍😎👍
The minute I rode my brand new 2007 FLHRCI off the dealers lot I sensed she was running lean. After a few thousand miles I was certain. She was lean, hot, pinging. After a few times back to the dealer and a bunch of shrugs of the shoulders I purchased an SE Race Tuner. Dyno'ed her myself by putting my laptop in my saddlebag, developed a MAP where I retarded the timing AND enrichened the fuel, also changed plugs to NGK DCPR8E's. Yea I lost some MPG, but my bikes been running cool ever since (just turned 85,000miles).
Yep, the 2007's were the hottest year. All 07 & later Twin Cams run lean and hot from the factory, but 07 was the worst.
Glad you took matters into your own hands and got your bike running how you like it. 👍😎👍
My Love Jugs have worked. Where I would hit 300+ on my CH temp before during stop and go, I rarely go over 260 now. It's also helped my oil temp by keeping it 20 degrees cooler than normal.
I'm also a believer in them. Buy once, cry once and enjoy the temperature reduction.
No doubt the fans can be effective at cooling the head temps. 👍
@@DKCustomProducts I'm considering am oil cooler as well. You guys have made me paranoid about engine and oil temps, lol.
Just put a set of Love Jugs on my 2012 twin cam. Expensive but so is an overhaul.
@@jodyhodge2129 👍
I completely agree! They run hot! During the summer months I ride early mornings or the evening hours. And this is a 103 twin cam stock. My bike loves the colder months.
👍
I have learned to ride my 2023 107 Street Glide in a manner that avoids excessive idling, such as stop and go riding. So far, my oil temps stay between 202-231*. HD needs to work on the overheating issues, such as head fans and an oil cooler fan. My guess is they will go to a water cooled engine in the near future. I have no desire to buy a new bank anytime soon. However, I would consider a new bike with a water cooled version. I have learned a ton watching your videos over the years. Keep up the good work :-)
Thank you, appreciate your business, and glad you are finding the videos useful. 👍
Another interesting thing coming down the pike from HD later this year...VVT. It will be interesting to see how that works out heat wise.
@@DKCustomProducts Yes, I agree... in my opinion, HD has to work on the overheating issue pronto. Indian is already making a water-cooled engine for their cruisers. If only HD was willing to solve this overheating issue, they would stay ahead of the competition by leaps and bounds. Indian is interesting, BMW is so so, and the Japanese got out of the cruiser market. I will one day stop by an Indian dealership, if I can find one, and sit on one of their cruisers. Until then, I will continue to own a HD. I have a couple of buddies who ride Indian motorcycles. Both of them have issues with their bikes. Fuel vapor lock when bike gets hot and ridden at high altitudes and electrical gremlins. this is my 3rd HD and I have my fingers crossed it will survive longer than the first two : - )
Wising you many miles of smiles on your 3rd HD. 👍😎👍
I think people are confused because you’re talking about oil temps and engine temps in the same sentence. The sensor in the head isn’t the oil temp and isn’t going to be below 230 on a hot day no matter what you do.
Yes, it can be a little confusing. That is why we referenced the video during the sentence you mentioned. We cannot put every detail in every video...here is the specific point in the referenced video where we talk about the differences between oil temps and the heat sensor temp in the head. ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
btw, this particular bike is a Twin Cam. Twin Cam's absolutely will run at 230F and less, on a hot day, hard riding, both in oil temp AND head temp sensor, WHEN they are set up correctly.
If the sensor in the head is more than 230 F, it is Not running optimally...and if it hits 270F the ECM is programmed to retard the timing in an attempt to cool it down before damage occurs. Here is a video showing that- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
Thank you very much I was going to say the same I don't know what they were talking about at one point!!
PS The older guy likes to talk...
Sorry for the confusion. It was clear to us. 😂
My story exactly ! 2021 FLHTK , did an SE 122 kit (not enough ). Did SE 133 kit with aftermarket cam/tune/exhaust (150hp). I did not do the SE oil pump because 2021 allegedly had solved the issues. Water pump went bad, severe overheat. Warranty replaced water pump, passed compression check. After overheat I started experiencing sumping symptoms. Decided to replace oil pump with SE pump. Crank runout way beyond spec.! Total engine rebuild needed. Tech said everything from the crank to the valve springs were fatigued from the overheating. Bike ran normal locally, but once at sustained high speeds. Temps rose and sumping began. $14k later, 166hp SE131, S&S crank, SE oil pump, you name it! I rode Hayabusa's for 20 years at 100mph+. Never more than tires and oil changes. Sorry these HD motors are junk, nothing like a factory that puts out known defective products. And than voids your warranty at any possible moment . Great videos , thanks.
Man, I am sorry to hear what you have been thru. Good to hear you have it straightened out. Sounds like a great ride now! 👍😎👍
Heat absolutely is a killer. Yes ago I worked at a independent VW shop and rebuilt beetle and bus engines. The engines would most of the time 70-80k and then die. Heat was the main cause stretching the valves and burning the valves. Taking them apart the cylinders had discoloration and evidence of excessive heat.
On my car I added an external oil cooler under the car and the engine life was doubled. I did for many others and they had similar results.
The more you can do to keep the H-D engine running 210 to 230 the better. There is no magic additive, oil etc that works nearly as well as modifying the bike to run cooler.
Thank you for your input. Well stated, and we agree 100% with you. 👍😎👍
Lmao 😂😂😂
210deg,, I get that the first hour of riding!!
Come on now an 05 twin cam kicks up some mad heat, I'm looking at 280 in the garage after a hot run on a hot day ....easy.
No oil cooler no love jugs nothing
They are trouble-free miles …right up until the millisecond when they are not. 😱
Personal experience is i use straight 50 weight amsoil in all 3 of my bikes! 37,000 on my twin cam! Change that oil frequently! Oil is a lot cheaper than engine parts! It gets hot here in Florida all the time!😂
I agree,,, I use amsoil 60w in northern cali
@Bratman Productions long time master HD tech told me that the problem with 60 weight can gum up your rockers and on initial startups can shorten their life!
@@johnhammered3321 That is a good point John... I guess time will tell. At this point in my couple of years of running the Amsoil 60 syn. here in hotter then hell Redding, Ca. lol.
Sooo far my top end is quieter then it has ever been.
I am curious what part of the country you are located at.?
@Bratman Productions 85° Here in mid Florida today, with occasional showers, tomorrow sunny Temps will be in the upper 80s. I have 3 bikes and all run 50. Our August Temps will average 90+. The biggest issue with these Temps is the humidity. My catch can on my twin cam gets more water that oil. I always let my bikes cool down before I bring them in my garage. That seems to help. My Pan america is water cooled so it rarely sees Temps over 230! After seeing all the issues with these m8s I take special care of not overheating and cool down after a ride.
Good choice, if you're riding in temps of 80 F or higher. 👍
Good video guys, HD is in for more trouble with heat as engines continue to get bigger displacements Heat, the ultimate destroyer of all ICE
Hi Jack!
Thanks for your comment!
Could not have said it better.
btw, what do you think of the VVT coming down the pike?
@@DKCustomProducts It will be a plus IMO it will play nice with the knock sensors and maybe have a desired good effect on roll on throttle, the secret to VVT is correct oil viscosity and clean oil
That is going to be a bugger...it is amazing how many folks do not follow the existing guidelines for oil viscosity. eeek!
I am very interested to see if HD did enough testing that the first adopters do not have a lot of problems with it (IF they follow directions on maintenance).
@@DKCustomProducts it will be a new learning curve for sure
Yep. 😱
Excellent video, guys. Retired Mechanical Engineer in the powertrain industry, here. Oil oxidation life is cut app. 50% for every 18 degrees F above 140 degrees F. Do the math - it's exponential decay. Mineral or synthetic. The threshold for oil longevity for synthetic oil being obviously longer. I use only Red Line V-Twin 20W-50 in my M8 for this reason - base oil is blend with polyol ester, the highest temp resistant oil of all (ex. exotics like glycols and silicones). Note: not employed or compensated by Red Line in any way.
That still doesn't solve the root problem - an air-cooled motor with no cooling airflow stuck in traffic on a hot day. Even rear cylinder cutout isn't enough to save it from heat wear / seizing. It's unacceptable design. Briggs & Stratton's have a flywheel fan for a reason - why don't Harley's have a thermostatic fan? It's ridiculous. MoCo finally released an oil cooler fan for M8, but only fits touring models. What about us softail guys/
All good points. Thanks for sharing the info on oil life and heat.
Fortunately the larger oil cooler on the M8 Softails does a really good job while moving....here is a video on it-
ruclips.net/video/h7EdjR8l8Ag/видео.html
But here is a list of some things you can do to cool it down more- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
@@DKCustomProducts - excellent list, thanks. I've done a number of those, was looking for thermostatically controlled fan. MoCo's accessory oil cooler fan only mounts on touring models, not softails. I asked why, they don't know. Wonderful.
That would help some, but the real issue is cooling the cylinders with airflow when sitting in traffic. Shutting engine down in traffic is dangerous IMO and has heat soak issues as well. Many of us have engine guards installed, your single fan kit won't work because coil relocate goes where the guard installs on the front frame. You might consider an alternate solution for M8's with guards.
@@brianmann986 That is on our list, and in the early stages of development.
@@DKCustomProducts - would be nice to see yours, but if only in early stages I might go with Love Jugs. They look awkward, but these also work.
@@brianmann986 Yes, the earliest we will have it done is late 2023.
+1.5qt Baker oil pan , oil cooler , Transformer external breathing system , oil filter relocation kit , 606 air filter assembly , woods TW555 cams , S&S TC3 cam plate and oil pump , free flowing exhaust with thunder torque inserts , wind deflectors wings , a good tune from Fuel Moto and engine cooling fans and all last year and so far this year I haven't seen Temps on my power vision go above 210° - 220° and oil Temps around 195° -205° on my oil pan Temp gauge here in South Central KY and I ride my 2009 Tri-Glide like I stole it 😅
You got your ride dialed in! 👍😎👍
Thank you for your business, we appreciate it. Great to hear that you have it running so well. 👍
@@DKCustomProducts thanks for your time and research on this subject, thanks goes to DK CUSTOM AND FUEL MOTO AND DYNOJET AND LOVE JUG FANS for keeping us informed and running cool 😎
Thank you! 👍
I have an S&S 124 it runs really hot. Can you suggest an oil temperature gauge, I have no idea how hot is running. In stop and go, I get an engine light.
JesCustoms makes analog oil temp dipstick gauges. That is what we have been using for years.
Here is a video you may find useful for cooling down your ride- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
I have a 15 low rider with an S&S 110kit. my FALL average seems to be around 280°-300° this in normal moving traffic 65° outside
That is much too hot for your bike to be running in 65° weather. Here is a 2 page written report on Why and How to cool down your TC & M8 that you may find useful/interesting - www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Part 2
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-your-twin-cam-engine-part-ii-dk-cl-tc-dn-2.htm
Here is a full playlist of videos on the subject that you may also find useful/interesting - ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
Please feel free to reach out with any questions;
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Thank you for commenting! 👍😎👍 MB
I'm on my fourth Milwaulkee 8 - 2 107s - 114 - 117 . I have ridden in 105 - 110 degree heat hour after hour , put over 32000 on my first 107 and thousands of miles on the others . I rode my 2021 - 114 St Glide 11000 miles to the east coast East Port Maine Florida Keys and back to northern California , many times through intense dessert heat , and never missed a beat . Is it just me or what ? I've have never had a problem with heat on any of my Harleys .
The big question is will they go close to a 100,000 before the hours of heat take the motor out. Stop and go traffic in the South is hell on them. I run love jugs, leave the Eitms on and keep Amzoil changed every 2500 and have had great luck this far. Hopefully it is an investment in the future. Time will bare it out.
Really good to hear of your good experiences.
Quoting MidnightExpress- They are trouble-free miles …right up until the millisecond when they are not.
My M8 bike just runs at 280~285F no matter what during normal operation. I got that outlaw oil filter on the bike, but no relocation kit.
In the slower twisties my bike can heat up to 315F, according to my powervision. Back on the freeways it cools back down to 280~285.
I just kinda accepted that that's how it runs and oh well.
I have the hightemp warning zone set on my bike to 325F. Doesn't seem to be the worst thing ever, I would like to to run cooler but... there doesn't seem to be a really good solution for my bike. I'm wondering if my bungking crashbar or clutch cable position is creating flow issues making the engine run hotter?
It's always run this warm.
You could consider love jugs. They certainly work.
Hey Fran, I know we have discussed this before, don't remember the details. Have you done all the options listed in this report?
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
It is really interesting how some bike only need a few of the things done to get the temps down to optimum, whereas others need more. 🙁
They absolutely help. I have run the Wards (before the LJ's, and they were the best), and I've run the LJ's, and now am running the ForceFlow. All of them make a significant difference. 👍😎👍
I’m running exactly the same temps
One thing I noticed is when talking temps, sensors, location, ideal temps etc..in most all the videos, including yours, they mention or get mixed up all the facts, locations or sensors. Most commonly is oil temp vs Engine Temp, or some times Head Temp values.
We try and be clear, but we can only make the videos so long, and can't cover every detail in every video.
In our videos we try and be very clear when talking about temperatures.
1. There is oil temperature, which we measure at the tank. It should never be more than 230 F. Here is a video on that- ruclips.net/video/M9ta84TmROc/видео.html
2. Engine Temperature, measured by the OEM heat sensor and displayed on the Power Vision as ET. It is different for Sportsters, Twin Cams and M8's. Here is a video on the ideal temp for each type of engine- ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
The only other temp we talk about sometimes is Felt Heat, and here is a video on it- ruclips.net/video/N0kLaVQhbW4/видео.html
I run bel-ray semi synthetic and change at about 2500 miles. And sometimes add some zddp additive from rislone. Seems 2b a good recipe...
You might like our oil debate video, where we answer all questions oil related....😂😂😂- ruclips.net/video/bNHgNThrqQo/видео.html
My 2008 Buell Ulysess with 1203 CC Thunderstorm engine has air scoops to cool the rear Cylinder.. an Oil Cooler with an air scoop .. Piston oiler to cool the pistons with cooled oil .. and an Electric cooling fun in a duct to draw air acorss the heads if they reach over 417 F running and stay on until the heads are cooled down to 230F when the engine is shut off.
Now the Fan is blowing fuses and I have to pull the rear shock out in order to get to it..
All the same Buell address cooling problems for the air cooled Evolution engine.. HD could have done the same, but they never did until recently ..
Erik Buell did a really nice job addressing many things on the Evolution engine. 😀
btw, all Twin Cams and M8's also have piston oilers. 👍
@@DKCustomProducts I noticed that some of the new HD's have oil coolers on them . Skidoo has a new water/Methanol injection system for their two stroke Turbo snowmobiles. I have Water Injection on a Disel Truck , Snow Performance, but the components are ver bulky and draw a lot of Amps. Water / Methanol Injection is a great way to cool and make more power from an air cooled engine..
@@DKCustomProducts The Buell Thunderstorm engine makes 103 HP where the Sportster 1203 makes 74 HP Buell is 10 to 1 compression and Sportster is 9to 1 if I can recall correclty ..
That would be fun to experiment with...just no time right now.
Yeah, a lot that can be done with the Evolution engine, which Erik clearly did. 👍
270 must be oil temp, you can run 400 degree cylinder head temps no problem.
Both Statements you make are Not True.
On Evolution, Twin Cam and M8's, Harley clearly states in the manual that the normal operating temp for oil is 230 F. This can be seen in your manual, and here is a photo of it- www.dkcustomproducts.com/image/Links_2/Normal%20Oil%20Temp.png
The temp in this video is of the heat sensor temp, embedded in the cylinder head of his Twin Cam engine.
Harley has both Twin Cams and M8's programmed to retard the timing, cutting power, in an attempt to cool the engine down when the temp sensor in the cylinder head hit's 270 F.
You can see on the dyno, in the following video, what happens to Harley TC's and M8's when the cylinder head temp hits 270F-
ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
400 F on a TC & M8 are horribly destructive to the engine (besides being power robbers).
On the Sporty Evolution, 400F from the cylinder head temp sensor is just a tad higher than you want it to be...not because it runs hotter than the TC's or M8's, it is purely a function of the location of the temp sensor.
Full, actual, accurate information on cylinder head temps and oil temps are shown in this video- ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
The exact same thing happened to me! They told me my oil pump clogged and caused the flywheel, jugs and pistons to cook! I had to pay it all because I tuned the engine to a stock custom config at 6000 miles!! I upgraded to the 122 big bore kit. Btw I have a 2019 Ultra that only had a free breather air cleaner and tab mufflers.
Man, I am sorry to hear that.
Good to hear you have it resolved. 👍😎👍
They've gotten hotter and hotter as the displacement has gone up, that after dozens of HD's in my life, I don't even want to ride one.
I completely understand.
I was not ready to give up on mine, so over a decade of R&D, along with 400K+ miles of testing, and we can still keep the temps down to optimum for the engine, and comfortable for the rider and passenger.
Written report- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Damn in 95 degree weather if i ride for more then hour im at 310 plus on my 114 m8. What options do i have for cooling cause i cant fit love jugs on my fxlrs.
We have a written report/list at this link- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
There is a video series of the above written report at this link- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
Here is a video with 10 Tip that are low and no cost- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
@@DKCustomProducts i have a m8 softail theres no fans or cooling stuff for it and the 10 tips doesnt work for my bike
Get a reuseable flo oil filter, it has heat sinks, which helps dissapate heat at least 10° cooler.
Yes, permanent, performance oil filters will filter better, dissipate heat better, AND reduce parasitic drag on the engine. Here's a link to many more of their benefits- www.dkcustomproducts.com/outlaw-high-performance-cleanable-oil-filter-in-anodized-black-dk-ocof-ab.htm
I run a 2021 Freewheeler in Australia, so heat is always an issue. I am interested in your thoughts of HD’s solution the Coolflow fan.
The Coolflow fan definitely helps reduce the heat the passenger (and rider to a lesser degree) feels while stopped and up to around 30 kph.
On a Trike, the most heat is probably felt by the passenger when cruising at 80 KM or more on a hot day. The Coolflow does nothing for that.
Better to cool down the actual heat of the engine. Here is a video with low and no cost ways to do that- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
And here is a written report with all the things that can be done to cool down your Freewheeler- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
I have the horsepower Inc fan that goes behind the oil cooler and love jugs mini mites extremely hot days 225 80 degree days 204 is that too cool or is that okay that's oil temp
That is not too cool. It is close to impossible to get a Twin Cam or M8 at the ideal oil temp of 190-195 F, so when we say the optimum max oil temp is 230 F, that is really a compromise, because it is very difficult to get it below that on a hot day when riding hard.
Your oil temp is great!
What is your engine temp, per the heat sensor embedded in the cylinder head?
@@DKCustomProducts I don't know I don't have a temperature gauge on my dash I only have oil temperature but I have a heat gun if that would help shooting the cylinders
The infrared will not give an accurate reading of the ET that the ECM uses. Video on that below. With your oil at those temps, it is very likely that your ET is good.
ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html
Going to get my oil cooler tomorrow
Nice! I believe you will be well pleased with the benefits. 👍
Could it also be the octane fuel you are using plus not using a synthetic oil ?
Octane variances and synthetic vs. conventional oil can definitely impact Engine and oil Temp. But only to the tune of 5-15 F.
I like the eitms, it works great.
It certainly reduces the amount of heat radiating from the rear header pipe. 👍
We've made a few videos on the EITMS that you may find interesting-
ruclips.net/video/T2aG284iCKc/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/5OTSwYFPABE/видео.html
Would a heat temperature gun work good on seeing how hot the engine is getting and would it be accurate?
Great question. I hope someone chimes in with an answer because I’m in the same boat with wondering how to measure temp without a Powervision
@@dmac620 hey I bought and used it the other day and it's really well but I don't know how accurate it is. It's showing my front cylinder around 195 and my rear runs around 280 and 375
It can give you comparisons when swapping out parts, but it will not give you an accurate reading of the temps that are important...and it is only useful for comparisons when used correctly.
We have an entire video on the use of heat temp guns here- ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html
Modern Harley's have a heat sensor, that is what the ECM uses to make adjustments in timing and fuel. Infrared Heat Guns will not give you useful info on what is happening with your engine.
In the absence of a PV or FP3/4, the best way is to see your oil temp after riding for at least an hour. Generally (very loosely) a Twin Cam Engine Temp will be about the same as the oil temp. An M8 will be about 30-40 F higher than the oil temp.
Here is a video where we talk about this - ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
Yeah, that is because of what we outlined in the infrared heat gun video....it is very unlikely (near impossible) for there to be that much actual variance between the front and rear cylinders.
My engine temperature is close to 300 deg,after a hot ride on a hot day, and that's fine!!!!!!!😊
Quoting MidnightExpress- They are trouble-free miles …right up until the millisecond when they are not.
@@DKCustomProducts very true my man.
I just picked up a breather kit, for 2005 Fatboy, but I'm using the screaming eagle black plate it doesn't work with my configuration I have the back plate with the rubber grommets, do you guys sell a separate bracket to go under the breathers and to support the air cleaner itself thank you
@@-MrRichBiker1967 Please contact us via email or phone. We have kits that will work with SE air cleaners, but depending on which on you have will depend on which kit is needed.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
Here is a link to the most popular kits for SE air cleaners for Twin Cams- www.dkcustomproducts.com/diy-external-breather-systems-528.htm
Good old mobile one and a big fat carburetor no heating problems at all
Yep! Those were the days! 👍😎👍
This is real simple people. For maximum life of the engine. Here are your targets.
Cylinder head temperatures - 400˚ F. or below.
Oil temperature - 165˚ F. - 220˚ F.
Good info on the oil, but on the heat sensor for the heads, this may very well be true on non-Harley engines. It is NOT true regarding HD's....variable is the position of the heat sensor.
As shown in the video linked below, Harley has their heat sensor in the Twin Cam positioned where it should never read over 230 F, and in the M8 the position is different, but should not go over 260 F.
ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
Here is a video, on a dyno, showing real time what happens to Twin Cams and M8's when they hit 270 F. There are also dyno charts in this video showing how much power is lost at 270 F and higher.
ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
@@DKCustomProducts You are absolutely correct about the position of the sensor. The above info is from Lycoming, an aircraft engine manufacture. Their temp sensor is taken from the spark plug area of cylinder.
When I use my temp gun on my bike after a ride (M8) I see around 280 on the rear and 260 up front. As long as im under 350 on this method, im happy with my temps. Oil runs around 195-200. Live in houston,Tx.
Good info. Have a few of your products on my bike!
Temp on the outside of the cylinder does not reflect what is going on inside the metal, where the heat sensor is...but it can possibly give you some comparisons.
We have done a video on temp guns that you may find interesting- ruclips.net/video/afgon9Qc1B8/видео.html
Those are great oil temps.
Thanks for your business, we appreciate it! 👍
They are trouble-free miles …right up until the millisecond when they are not 😀
From Southern California ~ Ride Forever! 🦅
Very good way of putting it....we might use that. 👍
Live Free~Ride Free!
@@DKCustomProducts Right on, Dwayne! 😝😝😝
I already used that phrase, answering a youtube comment earlier today. Thanks! 👍😎👍
@@DKCustomProducts You go, baby! 😛 👊
Modern synthetic oil, eg; motul 20w50 7100 can easily handle 300 + degrees.
This video is not about how much heat oil can or cannot take!!!
It is about how much heat the metal components in a Harley Engine are designed to take.
Harley clearly does not want the cylinder head temp (at the heat sensor location) to go over 270 F...because at 270 F they drastically retard the timing in an effort to cool the engine down.
You can see it happen on the dyno in this video- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
The live action on the dyno, and the several dyno charts show what Harley is doing, and how serious they are about not wanting the temp to go higher than that.
heat is a killer, to anything, except sex. oil, good oil is a great start. air cooled engines need all the help they can get, reduce the friction, reduce the heat. depending on climate temps, syn oil is best anywhere you ride. i use to use Slick 50, the old Slick with Tefflon, no longer made, it made a difference in the motor and trans temp. not primary case. i now use motor coat, it works. no matter what you use, change the oil 3,000-4,000 miles. tks good review.
Thank you for the comment and info. 👍
We have been researching this and finding solutions to lowering the OEM temps for over a decade.
Here is a Report on the subject- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
And here is a video series on the Report- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
So, how can I keep my 2023 road glide cool?
Love jugs and frequent oil changes.
Here is a video with 10 low & no cost ways- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
Here is a written report on why and how to cool it down- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Here is a video series on every trick in the book to cool it down- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
Feel free to email or call with any questions.
Support@DKCustomProducts.com
662-252-8828
That can certainly help, and on some bikes be all that is needed. Most need more than that.
According to what I read, oil starts to breakdown at above 275 degrees Fahrenheit.
You are correct, that is true with most oils, but this video is not about how much heat oil can or cannot take.
It is about how much heat the metal components in a Harley Engine are designed to take.
Harley clearly does not want the cylinder head temp (at the heat sensor location) to go over 270 F...because at 270 F they drastically retard the timing in an effort to cool the engine down.
You can see it happen on the dyno in this video- ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
The live action on the dyno, and the several dyno charts show what Harley is doing, and how serious they are about not wanting the temp to go higher than that.
Run Amsoil
And love jugs. Great combination.
Many report they get 10 or 20 degree drop running Amsoil. We have not observed that in any of our tests....BUT, even if we did get a 20* drop from 300 to 280. That is Still Too Hot.
Harley wants the engine to run where the oil is not going over 230 Degrees F (not for the oil, but for the engines' sake). They also cut power when the ET hits 270 F. You can see that in the video at this link- ruclips.net/video/MF0hO-w2hz8/видео.html
LJ's certainly help. Here is a video with less expensive (low and no cost) option for cooling a Harley- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
The highest oil temp i saw was 220° on a almost 100° day.
Very nice! 👍😎👍
After a bunch of work i like my HD, but i wont be buying another.
Glad you got her how you like it. Wishing you many miles of smiles! 👍
After a couple hundred miles my bike gets hot af. Hot af.
Yeah, unfortunately that is the experience of many. Here is a video with 10 low cost & no cost ways to cool your ride down. ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
It's a harley. It's gonna run hot due to the design. Do all ya can to keep it cool. Really It's a gamble. If ya ride it enough.
It does not have to be a gamble. There are very specific things that can be done to cool it down to the optimum range.
Here is a short list of low and no cost things- ruclips.net/video/o3T3yA9BKwE/видео.html
Here is a complete list in written format- www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
Here is a complete list in a video series- ruclips.net/p/PLb3bvZgbH92_3s-2vv63QggFJ3nteFd_C
We all know except for the heads the Milwaukee-8 is a pile of shit. It's designed and built as cheaply as possible, it loaded with imported parts, but the real problem, the fuel injection is so lean the engine runs hot. Blame the factory for a cheap motor, blame the EPA, for the heat problem.
NO, we do NOT all "Know" that.
While the Sporty and Twin Cam have been too lean from the factory, the Milwaukee-Eight is NOT Too Lean.
Here are two video showing the testing of the AFR on a variety of M8's. They are NOT Too Lean, and the OEM AFR on them is not contributing to excessive heat.
ruclips.net/video/Lb_57Z_Ipms/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/aWW-nt7-fzA/видео.html
And here is a link to a written report, that has many AFR charts of the OEM M8 Tune-
www.dkcustomproducts.com/milwaukee-eight-dyno-charts-other-interesting-info-dk-m8-rpt.htm
@@DKCustomProducts well their you go, my mistake, then they are just garbage?
If that is your opinion, based on, I don't know what, you are entitled to it.
Seems you have not actually accumulated much actual data to form an informed opinion.
I do not consider mine garbage, nor do hundreds of folks I know consider them garbage. We enjoy riding all over the continent.
@@DKCustomProducts oh come on you guys work on them. They're a throw away motor. Something goes wrong with a rod or the crank, flywheel assembly, you throw it away. Look at how the factory cheaped out on the lifter blocks, did away with Timken bearings. Anything to save the company money. Hence junk. I'll stick with my EVO, I can work on it, replace internal engine parts forever and I don't have to deal with Harley Davidson. Not that they would help, no more parts for the EVO, can't even find a dealership to work on it. I have very little good to say about the company itself. Now that they're teaming up with Budweiser even less.
@@thomaskirkpatrick4031 Throwing the baby out with the bathwater has never been a good choice in my observations.
Yes, they have cut costs, going with less expensive parts in many cases.
Yes, an Evo is easier to work on.
Yes, more and more it is parts replacement rather than repair or rebuild
But that does not mean that they are junk or unreliable...they have some challenges, just like the Evo did when it came out.
What I find most disconcerting about the new bikes is all the electronics, that are not repairable....but it is a trade-off for so many folks that want the "conveniences" that the electronics deliver.
Is that 300° by PV Engine temperature and or Head Temp reading or by oil temperature reading
It is 300F as displayed on the Power Vision via the ET gauge.
Here is a video where we talk about the differences between oil temps and the heat sensor temp in the head. ruclips.net/video/rWOdQOtDv6A/видео.html
Its going to be interesting to see how hot the new 2024 VVT motor will get.
Yes, that will be Very Interesting! 👍
HARLEY-DAVIDSON JUST JOINED THE WOKE MOVEMENT! As a lifetime loyal owner and rider, I am SO disappointed that Harley-Davidson has agreed to place the HD logo on the front of new Budlight cans to help bailout Anheuser-Busch from their advertising disaster. Harley is now no better than Budweiser and cares more about its ESG score than its deep-rooted customers. Just thought I'd share this information with your viewers in case they haven't heard yet.
Yep, this ESG thing is wreaking havoc with many companies, HD included. We talked about it in a video about 6 months ago, and then again in another video about 3 months ago...in this link- ruclips.net/video/ArMNyQiRcpQ/видео.html
I like 40,000, 50,000, 60,000 miles and more. Yes I do have complaints according to Power Vision the reading for the engine temperature is running in the 300s to 350° for engine temperature and add 20 to 25° on top of that for head temperature according to Power Vision readings. I have a Oil Cooler stock with a fan.
Now I got these temperatures with my 107 and I get it with my 131. But I have a Harley oil dipstick that’s got an LED on it I register usually three or four for oil and as far as temperature goes, I range anywhere from 260 to 270 plus degrees according to that LED Harley Dipstick.
I have been lucky... My 2023 107 runs between 200-231*. I avoid a lot of stop and go traffic riding.
Nice! 👍😎👍
Man, that is not good. You may find the links below to a written report, and to a video, interesting & useful.
www.dkcustomproducts.com/why-how-to-cool-down-the-twin-cam-engine-part-i-dk-cl-tc-dn-1.htm
ruclips.net/video/5PxJ8PvcVtc/видео.html
How come Harley can’t overcome this with an air cooled engines, but Porsche overcame it back in the 60s 70s?
Air cooled Volkswagens & Porsche’s have a belt driven fan that brings air over the cylinders, even at idle.
It takes a fan, like luv jugs.
Water heads don't get 2 hot.
Many reasons:
1. The fan that David mentions
2. The epa was not as stringent back then in regards to AFR and cam timing
3. The orientation of the cylinders is different on a HD, with the rear cylinder sitting between the front cylinder and the frame.
Good point. 👍