I was curious about this about a year ago and conducted my own experiment. I was able to expand the substrate 8 different times over the course of 10 months. I only stopped because the mushroom yeilds dropped to only a few fruits and half of the sub became contaminated. Glad to see others thinking from an eco friendly POV!
This is by far the best mycological cultivation channel on RUclips. I absolutely love your attention to why things matter and how to leverage them to your advantage. You have a real knack for clear communication and I'm understanding the principles behind things that I've more or less taken as rote for a long time. I'm so happy I found your channel. Thank you!!
I'm currently on a 3rd generation growing. It did seem as though the second didn't produce nearly as well as the first, however there were way to many other variables to pin it on old substrate. Thanks for sharing this experiment!
Please remove the auto-focus. Turn it off and set your focus to infinity. It will stop doing this in/out of focus thing and it will take always a clear image of you and everything in the frame. Thank you!
competing organisms. Why did I not realise. thank you, this alone has convinced me that I'll go for a fresh spawn rather than trying to get my last grow to carry on anew. 👍
Yes intriguing to see how this works out. I’m currently expecting my second harvest from the original coffee ground substrate and was wondering how to sustain the yield by breaking it up and mixing with another substance ( probably more coffee grounds). I wish the video had focused a little more on the practical nature of the broken substrate and what to do with it ie. what ratios to mix, in what kind of container etc.
Yea, I mean pre-fruit, you’re just kind of following the amplification process aren’t you? I guess the difference is still the sterilization vs pasteurization as well... cool. Looking forward to this, since I just ordered an oyster block newbie kit to grow and try my hand at needle biopsy to liquid culture and then substrate to cardboard and coffee in a bucket for an experiment.
Love you guys videos, and the E book. But i cannot find the good answer to this question. How heavy are those "logs" of straw? and what is their size and what is bag you use?
I see you're using spent substrate blocks but what about transferring a colonized substrate bag that hasn't fruited to a few more substrate bags? would senescense take place then as well?
New and exploring so appologies if stupid, could you get pasturised grain (as i assume your paying a premium for succesful grain spawn) and divide it into steralised bags and add partial grain spawn into it to cultivate and do this process every cycle there on (i assume the grain spawn is not contaminated with any unknown as it was prepared in a sterile enviroment to begin with?) I am also going to assume that would be cheaper to do in the long run? Worse case you would have to do it in front of a filtered air vent ? Would it also be subject to mutation at this stage if done this way? Or degrade over time? This way your continuing with grain spawn and not a different substrate and should always have grain spawn avaliable?
Is this theory the same for liquid mycelium? I took some mycelium from a spent cake and put it to a liquid culture. Do this mean it's likely to be a weaker liquid culture than if I started straight from spore.
hey boss, just curious, Can you add a batch from the fruiting substrate to a spawn jar? if you do, will u have to do this in a sterile way? or is it ok to sterilize your grain jar and then add substrate or inoculate from your old substrate that u have already used to fruit the shroom?
Excellent research question-I look forward to seeing the results. Also, is it first or subsequent generations of grain spawn? Also, what species are you growing and what is the substrate (looks like straw)?
Hi Robert, glad you like the question. So this is G3 (3rd generation) grain spawn. In the video straw is used and often we add straw pellets as well. You can use a wide range of substrates, especially with oyster mushrooms. Check out this article: grocycle.com/how-to-grow-oyster-mushrooms/
So what's the difference between using grain spawn and a substrate that hasn't fruited yet? Is grain spawn inoculated with fresh spores? Whereas the unfruited substrate is effectively an 'old' organism? I've been using the same substrate as spawn for over a year now. I have a bucket set up that I never allow to fruit. I have noticed that yield has been reduced recently, though as I'm not growing in perfect conditions, there are quite a few variables that may be affecting it. I still consider myself to be a complete novice so would love to see how this experiment turns out.
Hey Tom, that sounds amazing having results for over a year now! You're right with your comments and the grain spawn is primed and ready to inoculate with. The substrate is a little on from this primes condition. I hope we'll find we can keep this going for over a year too :)
Great stuff. I'm going to attempt to create some grain spawn using spores from the fruit of my last batch, and see if that improves yield going forwards. My aim is to keep it all going in the most cost effective and eco-friendly way possible. Thanks for this info, I had no understanding of it before. I guess it's just like a human growing older and having children. The person will grow weaker and eventually die but the child will grow stronger, and the cycle continues. If I can get away with only producing new grain spawn every 6 months or so that would be ideal.
@@motionshortcuts First of all amazing results and thanks for sharing, 2nd how did you stop it from fruiting? keep very cold in a normal fridge next to your milk? or store it somewhere very dark? if you store in fridge is it in black container too? How often do you let it breathe? once a week? plastic or glass container? How are you going to create your own grain spawn using spores from your last fruit batch? with out agar culture, clean room, air filter , etc.... Or you going to try some low tech stuff natural stuff like, boil grain, cool down and just through in some spore close bag, pray to the mushroom Gods and hope for the best. LOL Please update me as im very keen to know
Hey Leon. In regards to never letting it fruit: I have 5 buckets, 4 with holes in that I have on rotation. The 5th is the 'spawn' bucket which has no holes. I leave this in my spare room, normal household temperature. Every week or so, when a bucket is ready to fill with substrate and start fresh, I take about 1/3 of the straw from the spawn bucket which is covered in mycelium and put into the clean bucket with the holes, and then fill the remaining 2/3 with pasteurised straw, all mixed up together. I also fill the gap created in the spawn bucket with pasteurised straw. I keep the lid pretty much closed in the spawn bucket and keep it in the dark. I'm simulating the conditions of being inside a tree here. The mycelium is effectively trying to find it's way out of the tree so it can fruit, but never will as I keep covering with fresh straw every week. (At least, that's my theory). I put bin bags around all the buckets to keep them dark (and to keep moisture in the ones with holes until they're ready to fruit, then I take them out). An update: the yield has gone right down now after approx 1 year, and the mushrooms seem to be paler than they used to be. Reaching end of life, I guess. As for spawn, I have no pressure cooker which I believe is what you need to sterilise pots for making spawn grain. I think I'll try gathering spores and introducing to some pasteurised cardboard... A question to grocycle - when creating new spawn, would using a oyster mushroom stipe work as well as using spores? I'm thinking not as I guess using a stipe is essentially using old mycelium, whereas spawn is a new life form. Hmmm...
I have slightly different challenge. I got a growing kit which is a bag of straw in a Styrofoam box. Now the substrate is only half colonised if at all and most of the mycelium has "spilled" into the corners of the box and between the walls of the plastic bag (because the bag is much larger than the box it comes in, they just twisted the unused part of the bag and folded it underneath the part of the bag with substrate). There is really a lot of the mycelium on its own, without any substrate. So now I wonder if I can just take all this mycelium, break it up in pieces and stuff back into the bag or maybe even my own substrate? It's King Oyster.
That's my take-away from many of these mushroom videos too. Not sure I want to get into an industry that produces a truck load of plastic waste per week. Totally unsustainable practice.
What DO you do with the colonized substrate after you've finished fruiting it? Can you feed it to composting worms? There has to be some extra value to it after it's passed through the mushroomery.
I tried to cut stems in smaller pieces and after mixed with wet cardboard and adter inoculated with straw , it takes longer to colonize but it is possible, just im not sure about the yields, still waiting for pinning now!
I'm using coco vermiculite mix for growing substrate... Can I also use this mixture for spawn? Why does everyone use grain rather than coco/vermiculite?????
What I’m wondering is if I can use a spore syringe directly into pasteurized substrate, colonizing it and skipping the grain jars. I’m currently pasteurizing my substrate and going to use a spore syringe I made from a kit I grew. Any help would be appreciated though.
@@williebooker6551 Mine got contaminated but it did work. I wouldn’t recommend it because it doesn’t colonize fast enough and is more vulnerable to contamination. The main reason to use grain is it’s more sterile and will colonize the substrate a lot faster, to then be protected by the mycelium.
I don't know why, but I always get fruit flies in my colinated substrate blocks, they eat away the mycelium and I have to throw the badge away, can anyone tell me what to do, in order to avoid this from happening, please?
Hi Gilles, I'd suggest it's probably be more likely to be fungus gnats than fruit flies? - They're a pain, I get them here too. Are you growing outside or in? Outside seems worse in my experience, but even in my house I have taken to using a simple netting curtain/viole over my whole mushroom shelf which acts as a basic but effective barrier to stop the lil buggers getting in. - Hope this helps. :)
@@KatNicholson Yes, I might get myself a special curtain then, I am actually growing inside and had success a few times, but these fungus gnats are a big pain, thanks for your helpful reply 👍👍🙃
@@gillesgeorges5539 you're really welcome! Every now and then one may still get through some how and I'm afraid I just squish them! :X lol - I hope the curtain helps, happy growing! :)
@@charliethesparrow880 Yes, thanks for the suggestion, I had to throw away all of my blocks, they were all infested throu and throu I have new ones in the making tho😉
Better off taking a live culture from the inside of your strongest healthiest fruit and propogating it on agar then liquid culture solution and using that to colonize new grain spawn to innoculate new substrate great reaults just gotta keep everything clean
For anyone interested in seeing what happened next, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
😘
I was curious about this about a year ago and conducted my own experiment. I was able to expand the substrate 8 different times over the course of 10 months. I only stopped because the mushroom yeilds dropped to only a few fruits and half of the sub became contaminated. Glad to see others thinking from an eco friendly POV!
At what number did you see the yield drop?
This is by far the best mycological cultivation channel on RUclips. I absolutely love your attention to why things matter and how to leverage them to your advantage. You have a real knack for clear communication and I'm understanding the principles behind things that I've more or less taken as rote for a long time. I'm so happy I found your channel. Thank you!!
Thank you for taking the time and efforts to do this experiment!
I'm currently on a 3rd generation growing. It did seem as though the second didn't produce nearly as well as the first, however there were way to many other variables to pin it on old substrate. Thanks for sharing this experiment!
I'm looking forward to finding out how this experiment goes
Me too! I just did a similar experiment. I took a recently colonized bag and split it into another 4 bags, so far so good.
Hi Fiona, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Please remove the auto-focus. Turn it off and set your focus to infinity. It will stop doing this in/out of focus thing and it will take always a clear image of you and everything in the frame. Thank you!
ARRGH I thought you had all the results already! good teaser!
Hi Christian, we do finally have some results! Just posted an update here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Can't wait to see the results!
Hi Lunastorta, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Could adding sterilized grain help feed the substrate? The grain is essentially feeding it which is why they grow bigger yes?
I was wondering this too
competing organisms. Why did I not realise. thank you, this alone has convinced me that I'll go for a fresh spawn rather than trying to get my last grow to carry on anew. 👍
The idea of 4:27 brought me here... -Thx. and Cheers! (to the results vid)
Would the same apply to using the stems of oyster mushrooms to create spawn? thank you!
Yes intriguing to see how this works out. I’m currently expecting my second harvest from the original coffee ground substrate and was wondering how to sustain the yield by breaking it up and mixing with another substance ( probably more coffee grounds). I wish the video had focused a little more on the practical nature of the broken substrate and what to do with it ie. what ratios to mix, in what kind of container etc.
we used a 20% inoculation rate and just broke it off and added it in layers as we built each column
Super informative. Exactly the question I was wondering. Thank you!
When are you uploading the next part????
We just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Yea, I mean pre-fruit, you’re just kind of following the amplification process aren’t you? I guess the difference is still the sterilization vs pasteurization as well... cool. Looking forward to this, since I just ordered an oyster block newbie kit to grow and try my hand at needle biopsy to liquid culture and then substrate to cardboard and coffee in a bucket for an experiment.
can't wait to see the result!!
Hi Ros, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Hey, may i know how you pasteurise your substrate? Is it lime tek?
Share the result as soon as possible. Really Anxious!!!
Hi Ammar, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
Thank you the video. I was curious and you explained it so well.
👍 this explains some problems I've been having
Love you guys videos, and the E book. But i cannot find the good answer to this question. How heavy are those "logs" of straw? and what is their size and what is bag you use?
Why is senescence not as much of an issue for grain to grain inoculation or growing from stem butt to agar?
Great idea sir and waiting for the results
Hi Santosh, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
look forward to watching the next video. i love your videos and explorations!
Hi Ceridwen, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
How is new spawn made then? Is it all made from the spores? I’m curious how it’s produced
excellent.
I see you're using spent substrate blocks but what about transferring a colonized substrate bag that hasn't fruited to a few more substrate bags? would senescense take place then as well?
Could you just use a mushroom and cut it up and add it to new substrate?
Do you experience senescence from mushroom tissue culture?
Do you need breathing patched on those long bags?
New and exploring so appologies if stupid, could you get pasturised grain (as i assume your paying a premium for succesful grain spawn) and divide it into steralised bags and add partial grain spawn into it to cultivate and do this process every cycle there on (i assume the grain spawn is not contaminated with any unknown as it was prepared in a sterile enviroment to begin with?) I am also going to assume that would be cheaper to do in the long run? Worse case you would have to do it in front of a filtered air vent ? Would it also be subject to mutation at this stage if done this way? Or degrade over time? This way your continuing with grain spawn and not a different substrate and should always have grain spawn avaliable?
Is this theory the same for liquid mycelium? I took some mycelium from a spent cake and put it to a liquid culture. Do this mean it's likely to be a weaker liquid culture than if I started straight from spore.
I wish I had some shrooms.
Bro how to buy long cover like u
Give me link
Thanks sir for the information
hey boss, just curious, Can you add a batch from the fruiting substrate to a spawn jar? if you do, will u have to do this in a sterile way? or is it ok to sterilize your grain jar and then add substrate or inoculate from your old substrate that u have already used to fruit the shroom?
Excellent research question-I look forward to seeing the results. Also, is it first or subsequent generations of grain spawn? Also, what species are you growing and what is the substrate (looks like straw)?
Hi Robert, glad you like the question. So this is G3 (3rd generation) grain spawn. In the video straw is used and often we add straw pellets as well. You can use a wide range of substrates, especially with oyster mushrooms. Check out this article:
grocycle.com/how-to-grow-oyster-mushrooms/
@@GroCycleTV So what were the results?
So what's the difference between using grain spawn and a substrate that hasn't fruited yet? Is grain spawn inoculated with fresh spores? Whereas the unfruited substrate is effectively an 'old' organism? I've been using the same substrate as spawn for over a year now. I have a bucket set up that I never allow to fruit. I have noticed that yield has been reduced recently, though as I'm not growing in perfect conditions, there are quite a few variables that may be affecting it. I still consider myself to be a complete novice so would love to see how this experiment turns out.
Ni
Hey Tom, that sounds amazing having results for over a year now! You're right with your comments and the grain spawn is primed and ready to inoculate with. The substrate is a little on from this primes condition. I hope we'll find we can keep this going for over a year too :)
Great stuff. I'm going to attempt to create some grain spawn using spores from the fruit of my last batch, and see if that improves yield going forwards. My aim is to keep it all going in the most cost effective and eco-friendly way possible. Thanks for this info, I had no understanding of it before. I guess it's just like a human growing older and having children. The person will grow weaker and eventually die but the child will grow stronger, and the cycle continues. If I can get away with only producing new grain spawn every 6 months or so that would be ideal.
@@motionshortcuts First of all amazing results and thanks for sharing, 2nd how did you stop it from fruiting? keep very cold in a normal fridge next to your milk? or store it somewhere very dark? if you store in fridge is it in black container too? How often do you let it breathe? once a week? plastic or glass container?
How are you going to create your own grain spawn using spores from your last fruit batch? with out agar culture, clean room, air filter , etc....
Or you going to try some low tech stuff natural stuff like, boil grain, cool down and just through in some spore close bag, pray to the mushroom Gods and hope for the best. LOL
Please update me as im very keen to know
Hey Leon. In regards to never letting it fruit: I have 5 buckets, 4 with holes in that I have on rotation. The 5th is the 'spawn' bucket which has no holes. I leave this in my spare room, normal household temperature. Every week or so, when a bucket is ready to fill with substrate and start fresh, I take about 1/3 of the straw from the spawn bucket which is covered in mycelium and put into the clean bucket with the holes, and then fill the remaining 2/3 with pasteurised straw, all mixed up together. I also fill the gap created in the spawn bucket with pasteurised straw. I keep the lid pretty much closed in the spawn bucket and keep it in the dark. I'm simulating the conditions of being inside a tree here. The mycelium is effectively trying to find it's way out of the tree so it can fruit, but never will as I keep covering with fresh straw every week. (At least, that's my theory). I put bin bags around all the buckets to keep them dark (and to keep moisture in the ones with holes until they're ready to fruit, then I take them out).
An update: the yield has gone right down now after approx 1 year, and the mushrooms seem to be paler than they used to be. Reaching end of life, I guess.
As for spawn, I have no pressure cooker which I believe is what you need to sterilise pots for making spawn grain. I think I'll try gathering spores and introducing to some pasteurised cardboard...
A question to grocycle - when creating new spawn, would using a oyster mushroom stipe work as well as using spores? I'm thinking not as I guess using a stipe is essentially using old mycelium, whereas spawn is a new life form. Hmmm...
Pls make video on waste management after the production. What to do with substrates left ove? Can it be turned into other compost?
I have slightly different challenge. I got a growing kit which is a bag of straw in a Styrofoam box. Now the substrate is only half colonised if at all and most of the mycelium has "spilled" into the corners of the box and between the walls of the plastic bag (because the bag is much larger than the box it comes in, they just twisted the unused part of the bag and folded it underneath the part of the bag with substrate). There is really a lot of the mycelium on its own, without any substrate. So now I wonder if I can just take all this mycelium, break it up in pieces and stuff back into the bag or maybe even my own substrate? It's King Oyster.
Great experiment, I'm thinking there's probably going to be a shortage of nutrition running the mycelium that far on straw.
I can’t believe how much single use plastics these methods use.
That's my take-away from many of these mushroom videos too.
Not sure I want to get into an industry that produces a truck load of plastic waste per week. Totally unsustainable practice.
I bet you can.
What DO you do with the colonized substrate after you've finished fruiting it? Can you feed it to composting worms? There has to be some extra value to it after it's passed through the mushroomery.
What about using stems of mushrooms. I'm currently trying this out...
I tried to cut stems in smaller pieces and after mixed with wet cardboard and adter inoculated with straw , it takes longer to colonize but it is possible, just im not sure about the yields, still waiting for pinning now!
Your store links are broken.
Great experiment keep us posted, Thank you.
Hi Victor, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
u can sterilize the substrate, the the mycelium itself that is left over can be reused as nutrients.
I'm using coco vermiculite mix for growing substrate... Can I also use this mixture for spawn? Why does everyone use grain rather than coco/vermiculite?????
Because grain does have a higher nitrogen content and the mycelium will spread faster.
has there been an update to this video yet?
Yes, we just posted an update with the results here: ruclips.net/video/7ZFHpCnGdO0/видео.html&
great video :)
What I’m wondering is if I can use a spore syringe directly into pasteurized substrate, colonizing it and skipping the grain jars. I’m currently pasteurizing my substrate and going to use a spore syringe I made from a kit I grew. Any help would be appreciated though.
Hey, did you get to test out that process?
@@williebooker6551 Mine got contaminated but it did work. I wouldn’t recommend it because it doesn’t colonize fast enough and is more vulnerable to contamination. The main reason to use grain is it’s more sterile and will colonize the substrate a lot faster, to then be protected by the mycelium.
@@torchedphoenix2159 nice, good to know! Thanks a bunch 🤙🏽
I don't know why, but I always get fruit flies in my colinated substrate blocks, they eat away the mycelium and I have to throw the badge away, can anyone tell me what to do, in order to avoid this from happening, please?
Hi Gilles, I'd suggest it's probably be more likely to be fungus gnats than fruit flies? - They're a pain, I get them here too. Are you growing outside or in? Outside seems worse in my experience, but even in my house I have taken to using a simple netting curtain/viole over my whole mushroom shelf which acts as a basic but effective barrier to stop the lil buggers getting in. - Hope this helps. :)
@@KatNicholson Yes, I might get myself a special curtain then, I am actually growing inside and had success a few times, but these fungus gnats are a big pain, thanks for your helpful reply 👍👍🙃
@@gillesgeorges5539 you're really welcome! Every now and then one may still get through some how and I'm afraid I just squish them! :X lol - I hope the curtain helps, happy growing! :)
@@charliethesparrow880 Yes, thanks for the suggestion, I had to throw away all of my blocks, they were all infested throu and throu I have new ones in the making tho😉
Better off taking a live culture from the inside of your strongest healthiest fruit and propogating it on agar then liquid culture solution and using that to colonize new grain spawn to innoculate new substrate great reaults just gotta keep everything clean
Thank you. I have had mine sitting under a black bag for over a year now. I will throw mine away.
Don't suppose you guys are looking for a new employer or branching out or anything what so ever?
My job is not fulfilling