I have to say that in my case, meltdowns really *are* one of the worst aspects - but not because of embarrassment. It’s the judgement of others who assume you’re just being badly-behaved, self-centered, and deliberately throwing a tantrum. They make me feel like I’m a bad person just because I can’t regulate my nervous system and emotions.
Absolutely this. One of my biggest fears is having a meltdown in front of other people and its entirely justified. It has destroyed my relationships with people at best and has lead to me experiencing violence or homelessness at worst. Non-autistic people see my meltdowns as my "true colors coming out." They believe who I am during meltdowns paints an authentic, honest portrayal of who I am on the inside. They refuse to understand that I behave that way because I'm scared and overwhelmed. That I spend days after my meltdowns drowning in shame and self-loathing. They see my true feelings as an act and my meltdowns as authentic when that couldn't be further from the truth.
@ I’m so sorry you had to go through that. 😔 It’s almost impossible to explain to people that it’s an involuntary process, and that sometimes it feels as if you are being controlled by an unseen force. Even my own mother (who is also Autistic, but has shutdowns instead of meltdowns) doesn’t really understand what it’s like to completely lose control of your entire system. I hope you have/find people in your life who see you for who you really are. 😊
I'm kind of the same, as a late diagnosed Gen Xer, that's 5 decades of weathering the uncharitable neurotypical response to them, as well as the distress of experiencing them. That said, this video is incredible and has helped me understand it more than ever, so hopefully I can take this information into the world and help others see them for what they actually are.
Yeah my mom’s often told me I throw tantrums, and until recently I thought she was right. But It was never cuz I wanted control or cuz I couldn’t get my way, it was usually always cuz she was pushing me to the point of overwhelm. I’d always go back to my room feeling so emotional and sad, and not because I “threw a tantrum”, but rather because it was a way to release some of that built up pressure / energy.
You probably don’t like to be hugged in person. The autistic person I know and love has about an 18-inch perimeter. So here’s a virtual hug from me🤗❤️. I’m sorry for the way people are so quick to judge, but slow to understand. Wishing you a great day, in which your boundaries are safe, and you don’t feel that awful sensory overload.
I remember when I was a kid, our fridge freezer started tripping the main breaker switch, my mum called a refrigerator repair man from the yellow pages, he condemned it, said you couldn't repair it (some bollocks about modern computerised electronics) and offered to take it away for free as he owned a shop for spares/repairs. Since it had been condemned I asked my mum if I could take it apart and I managed to diagnose the issue and found a part number to order a replacement, the defrost heater element had shorted against the outer metal casing it was contained within and when it switched on it tripped the breaker. I told my mum that the refrigerator repair man was probably a conman (with the business model of collecting call out charges and then taking away repairable fridge and/or freezers for free under the guise that you can't repair modern electronics). 😂 The fridge/freezer lasted my mum another 15 years before she sold it to somebody else when she moved house.
Interesting story, and all too common. However, I get the impression that you were trying to respond to another video. When in a playlist, YT automatically goes to the next video, but keeps what you're typing and applies it to the next video's comments. Perhaps you were commenting on a previous video when that video ended and landed you here?
I'm a shutdown-type autistic. In the most extreme cases I actually pass out, but in any "normal" shutdown I will become increasingly non-verbal, quiet and still. I've explained a shutdown to other people before using analogies with computers. A shutdown is a bit like when a PC goes blue-screen, and sometimes when it ends I will restart in safe mode, which isn't remotely as clever as normal mode. Helping my autistic children when they have meltdowns (rare for one, more common for the other) means creating a safe space physically but also for the senses. Sometimes that means providing a safe smell/texture/object/sound, or just removing the distressing stimulus. It very often means firmly telling other people to back off, and reminding them that child is not operating in normal mode. They can't hear you, or rather they can't process what you are saying. Great video, thank you! The Autistic Triad is very interesting and I will give it some thought. I look forward to hearing what you and others have to say.
I get both. I find that suppressing meltdowns makes shutdowns happen. Sucks when you can't talk, can't move, can't think, and suddenly can't do anything except sleep.
I used to have meltdowns as a child. Being undiagnosed, they were treated as tantrums. I learned to mostly switch them to shut downs as an adult. They are horrible when they happen. And no, it is not due to embarrassment; it's the exhaustion and shame and lack of control and feeling like a bad person. I don't get them often now, not because I've figured things out but because I've made my life so small the flood doesn't happen often anymore. I am looking forward to your next video and learning new tools. I am sorry to hear of your loss and hope your grief has moved to a more tolerable level.
Great video Quinn! There's one more point I'd like to add about meltdowns. Everyone has meltdowns/shutdowns when stress is too much to handle. Every single human... except, perhaps a true psychopath. The reason autistics seem to have them more often than neurotypicals is because autistics are under more stress than neurotypicals. Meltdowns should be seen as evidence for the amount of stress someone is under, which means having real conversations around what stresses that person out.
Agreed. And neurotypicals, who, indeed, are not coping with CONSTANT "invisible" internal and external stresses, as autistics do, actually melt down in more acceptable (recognizable) ways: slam doors while exiting, escape and cry in private, insult and belittle colleagues, friends or family members, actually push or punch others in reaction to words, scream at or hit children or dogs, drive recklessly and get in road rage altercations, etc.
I am late diagnosed at age 70. I functioned. Jungian Therapist, Director of social service agency, meditation teacher, business owner. I didn't know I was having meltdowns... just TOO sensitive is the internal judgement I lived with. As soon as I started 'unmasking' I started experiencing meltdowns... just like a child throwing a temper tantrum... only clearly it wasn't. I love your new concept almost as much as I love my tubbies, and I plan to stay with you to learn more. Thank you 🙏 In terms of my autist skills, I remember most everything I hear. I have a genius IQ and process information at complex levels. I see and feel patterns that lend to advanced intuitive skills. And, in balance, I am very, very, very sensitive to sensory stimulus and undertones in communication.
During my teens I remember having half a dozen or so of what I thought were blinding, violent “berserker” rages where I lost total control and couldn’t really remember what I’d done after. Looking back now, as an undiagnosed man of 59, they were, I guess, meltdowns. They scared the absolute bejesus out of me, to the point I was terrified I would kill somebody during them. This terror of doing something like that shaped the way I started to behave, how I approached and sometimes avoided confrontations, and how I tried to consciously control myself. It worked. I’ve come close to losing it on many occasions but I’ve managed to avoid total meltdowns. Also, my condolences for your loss.
I think this is the best and most comprehensive explanation of meltdowns and shutdowns that I've come across. I'm absolutely saving it & sharing with everyone!
As with Jenn, my meltdowns and shutdowns have never been as extreme as I've seen them described by others. I haven't experienced too many of them, but that's probably because all of my life (childhood and adulthood) I've been dissociating a lot, thus protecting me from the flood.
Same I tend to dissociate the most. I’ll go a few years without having a meltdown and I’ll have one and explode and go another few years without having one.
I vote for social communications as the worst part of autism. It's a long, drip-drip-drip of miscommunications and misunderstandings. Meltdowns are just an outburst of frustration. It's not so much embarrassing as it is disregulating. I lose all control of what I'm trying to do. I really hate losing control. Since finding the autistic community I've learned a lot of words. Meltdown is one of the more useful. It's basically what it feels like for me. "Special Interest" not so much. It's like I should have one special thing above all others. "Fascination" is more my style. A series of interests that are intense, with study and reading and spending too much money on samples for my collection.
I tend to have meltdowns when I'm stuck somewhere I don't want to be dealing with other people or stressers. As a child I would have them at the Daycare my parents left me at before and after school while they worked. All I wanted when I was there was to be at home in my room with my things away from all the other people I wasn't getting along with. Eventually one of the other kids would get to me and I would have enough. I wanted them to stop and leave me alone but when ever they would get me to react I would get in trouble and what they did to cause the outburst would go unnoticed. Since no one would hear me and help me I started acting out more during these times. Switching to melting down instead of shutting down since shut downs didn't stop it. I started reacting by breaking things or throwing chairs. The people at the daycare had to literally drag me up the stairs and through the hallways as I grabbed onto anything I could reach. Latching onto door frames or anything else to stop make it more difficult. If it didn't stay attached to the wall it went flying. I would rip things off the walls in the office and try to break everything I could. I just wanted them to listen. I just wanted the other kids to leave me alone. But when all calls for help were met with me getting punished I didn't know what else to do. After a while in the office away from the other kids I would calm down. As an adult I can control where I am so do not have meltdowns this sever any more because I can just go else where or back home if I want to.
My condolenses for you and your family's loss Quinn; This was a Meltdown Masterpiece which I will be sharing and rewatching. Welcome back and your plan to talk more about the Triad and delve more into other concepts you have previously spoken about is exciting ! 🖖
I like your description of "the flood" and why it occurs. It makes a lot of sense. For me, the flood happens far too late to prevent the evemt from happening - it usually gives me just enough time to go somewhere private.
Thanks for this, Quinn. In childhood I used to have quite explosive meltdowns (was called the volcanic hippy). As I grew up, those explosive episodes became internalised and morphed into shutdowns. I lose the ability to talk. There are too many overwelming. threads of thought zooming around in my head for me to make sense of. I feel my body vibrate. Flood explains it very well. I then need isolation to ground myself and recalibrate. Only then can I review what happened and talk about the issue.
Wow, that's the clearest explanation of meltdowns and shutdowns I stumbled upon by FAR! And it lifts a weight from my imposter syndrome now that I don't experience meltdowns anymore and that shutdowns are rarer and rarer. Thanks so much Quinn!!
What an interesting video, well done. But it saddens me that you had this big loss in your life and I hope the pain and grief ease quickly. I am one of those who had these explosive outbursts relatively often while young, but now I tend to only shut down. Sometimes I can deay them a little until I am in a safe place or make my body do things or say some words during a shutdown, but it is a tremendous effort and that costs me dearly later. Still, this has always been a cause for doubt, if I could do these things then can I really call them shutdowns? Hearing from your experiences is very helpful, forsooth. This concept of the Flood is much more useful to me. Thank you for this.
I didn't have meltdowns for 39 years. A lot of trauma came my way in my 40s and I have them now. Very badly. It's become a huge source of shame. I actually am finding the embarassment and humiliation of meltdowns extremely problematic lately. After all my other self acceptance and accommodation I can't seem to handle this one. I have abandoned social groups and internet chats and family alike over my extreme shame around being seen having a meltdown. The after-the-fact conversations with people seem to be extremely difficult and I end up having to explain and defend myself and unpack all of my emotions for the person trying to "help" with the meltdowns, and that can trigger ...you guessed it.... another meltdown, It takes days or weeks to recover physicallly and emotionally. I often am terrified to be around the same people again because I am afraid the interactions will cascade into more meltdowns out of a fear of having one in front of them to begin with. It's really got me in hermit mode honestly. I'm afraid to go outside my house in case I have one I don't want to be seen in public. I began to have meltdowns with an abusive relationship that sent me out to the street with no place to live. I began having meltdowns in public when I was homeless and police would verbally abuse me during them instead of helping me in any way. One officer told me he'd (insert violent against women sexual act here) if I didn't shut up. And homeless men would harass me mid-meltdown because I couldn't defend myself or even stand up and leave by the time I'm crying and flailing. One man tried to physically pin me down in a restraint move he had seen on TV but I was on some gravel and it was very painful and I consider it an assault. Another tried to take control of my vehicle when I felt the meltdown coming and I myself tried to slow down and urgently insisted we park the car and he tried to wrestle my car keys from my own hands and after that time I can't believe I let him in my car a second time but he learned he could provoke meltdowns and tried to steal the car that way a second time. That was how we got police attention actually. TLDR: As a homeless woman with autism meltdowns comes with a huge fear of social rejection, denial of services, exploitation, and potentially violence for me.
Afterthought on shutdowns: I must have had them too before my 40s and before my diagnosis. It's hard to pinpoint a time though. I'm wondering if maybe I just spent actual whole years and decades in shutdown? It would explain my poor decision making, burnout, failures, losses, and all the stuff in my early adulthood that led to the disaster that is now. I have a theory that meltdowns weren't possible for me until after the car accident, which changed some of my cognitive skills for the worse.
@@Authentistic-ismI’m sorry to hear what a terrible time you have had. The things that you describe happening to you are just awful. Just a point about shutdowns and where you said you wondered if you might have been in shutdown over decades: a proper shutdown involves things like loss of peripheral vision, hearing as if everything is far away, the inability to form sentences and speak properly. What you might have experienced over extended periods could be long-term depression since that is a symptom of cPTSD. I speak from my own experience.
Thanks for that reply @tracik1277 @Authentistic-ism It might be worthwhile looking into information on autistic burnout too. It's not a topic I've covered in depth myself, but have experienced. A shutdown, however it manifests, is a temporary, short-term event, but they can be a symptomatic indicator of underlying mental health complications.
It's really good to see you again, Quinn! Firstly, my condolences on your loss. It's incredibly difficult to lose someone close to you, in so many ways. Secondly, the video - both the subject matter and how it looks - were absolutely excellent. Wonderful that it was a nice and long deep-dive, as well! I wish I could offer some interesting thoughts into skills categories, but it's been a long day and the spoons (and, to be fair, brain cells) are just not there. Can't wait to see what others come up with!
Thanks, youtube, for recommending this channel. First time watcher. Diagnosed with ASD and ADHD 6 years ago at age 65. I have had a few meltdowns over the years, but (AFAIK) my wife is only person who witnessed one. All the others have been "private", thankfully. I experience them as amp-turned-up-to-11 bursts of intense rage, and in many cases, something ends up broken. Now that I've been diagnosed, and I've watched and read content from autistics and therapists, I can recognize the warning signs and get myself away from the trigger before I get slammed with 2 tons of rage.
thank you Quinn for continually updating my vocab so now I at least have an outside shot at describing where I'm at to people in my life. The "Autistic Flood" will be particularly useful I think.
I was diagnosed with autism and adhd a year and a half ago at the age of 66. My meltdowns are few and far between, and is generally what I would call an “explosion” of words or actions. If the trigger was physical, my response was physical; if verbal, my response was verbal. After the catharsis I would feel bad, guilty. Mostly I experience shut downs, mot melt downs.
suggestion on spiky skill set: We tend to be better at the general population at deliberately pushing through barriers and changing our own "programming" deliberately (we can override our nervous system's alarms in ways that allistics cannot imagine, because while their alarms are less sensitive, they are tied to failsafe shut downs). AND We tend not to change our programming in ways which are not deliberate/explicit/consciously guided. In other words, we don't "grow out of" things just as a matter of course or because our peers are no longer doing those things or because those behaviors no longer produce the result which allowed them to become part of the programming in the first place. I think this goes along with the research showing that we don't experience spontaneous neural apoptosis in the same way that typically-developing humans do. We aren't going to stop having the feelings of dependency or need for coregulation that we had as infants just because we reach that phase of development (between 4 and 6) where most people's nervous systems would go, "Hey. We can actually run away from danger pretty fast now. We probably don't need to think we will die if we can't get adults to help us right away." We need to logically conclude that we can now keep ourself safe and solve problems with less immediate adult/caregiver attention, and teach our nervous systems to try those strategies before panicking at not getting help. But once we learn how to soothe our nervous systems and steer our thoughts, our ability to push through discomfort, recognize patterns from even small data sets, and speak truth with precision, we tend to be very good at that reprogramming. But these factors are also why some behavioral modification "treatments" such as ABA and CBT, often do more harm than good, particularly when they are not enacted with our full understanding and consent.
Took me a while to get what you meant by veracity but once I did, I realised this may be my biggest difference or area where I struggle, although coping with unexpected changes is a strong contender. I find recieving vague or incomplete information extremely stressful (for example "let's meet tomorrow" where?! When until when?! Who exactly is going to be there?!). I also find it difficult both to lie and to put up with lies. I feel an intense upwelling of rage whenever someone lies, especially if that lie goes uncorrected or unchallenged, whether it was intentional deception or because they were working from faulty information. As you can imagine, I have to engage with politics in tiny doses for the sake of my own sanity. Although that might not be so unusual.
Thank you for helping me understand myself better. I do sometimes experience meltdowns, even though I'm 48 and have been making a lot of progress through group therapy in managing my emotions. That triad is so relatable for me, and I can absolutely say that at least one of them contributed heavily to every meltdown. Also, yes, the best thing anyone can do for me once I'm in one is to reduce input & just let me cry it out. I'm subscribing because you're not just sharing your experience; you're sharing the experiences of hundreds of autistic people in an educational format. Thank you!
Yes, there is absolutely no agenda. In fact your agency, which is what’s required in order to have an agenda, has been completely depleted and stripped from you, and that’s what has caused the meltdown in the first place. So the NT idea that we are having a meltdown in order to ‘get our own way’ is utterly ridiculous. The only thing we want is for the legitimate needs that have been systematically ignored over a period of time and the final ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ to have not happened and that we were not now experiencing the meltdown and the inevitable fallout that will follow. The only thing that can help at all when it’s already become too late, is that they back off and learn how to not be such ignorant ****s in the first place.
1) Meltdowns don't happen enough for me for them to be the worst part of autism... in fact, NONE of the autistic people I know find meltdowns the worst part of autism. 2) Embarrassment is not even close to the worst part of meltdowns. The worst part of meltdowns is the trigger -- usually that I just told someone what I needed and they dismissed/gaslit me. The second worst part of meltdowns is the exhaustion and disruption of recovery time following the meltdown. If an autistic person is having a meltdown, think about the last thing they communicated was irritating them or the last thing they communicated they needed, and either eliminate the irritant from their environment or get them the thing they needed. There is literally nothing else that will provide the safety to recover. If autistic people are asking for impossible things to get their needs met, society's job is to make those things possible and/or help the person develop a wider toolbox for meeting that need in more practical ways, and the best thing to do to prevent/quickly end meltdowns is to acknowldege that the person's needs are real and a way to meet them needs to be found and will be as quickly as possible. A tantrum is a strategy to get what someone wants, and if tantruming doesn't work, any autistic pattern-matcher will quickly stop having tantrums. A meltdown is a trauma response established by unmet needs or the abuse of inappropriate expectations; they can be prevented by healing and environmental management including appropriate supports and appropriate expectations. Where environment and expectations cannot be rearranged to prevent meltdowns, the safety of having a plan for management of the meltdown and recovery is sometimes enough to prevent a meltdown. And all of the above goes for shutdowns too.
Excellent discussion Quinn! I've had a few meltdowns over the years but they're very mild compared to the typical stereotype. Shutdowns are far more common. The flood analogy is spot on. Thank you! 💜
I've never heard it this way before, but this is a perfect example to describe the intensity of the events that lead to the stress. I love your channel! I was finally diagnosed officially with AuDHD this month. I'm 69 and finally have the answers I needed to explain my whole life experience. I'm one of those who has to have an official explanation, but I totally understand and accept all who self diagnose or are just curious. I was tired of being misunderstood and told I was just "being ..." whatever. Now I have a shield and can ask for accommodations. Thank you so much for your channel and your awesome videos! My key phrase now days it "Let's Talk, Let's Listen."
This is an excellent video. At 54, I tend not to meltdown, but I do still shutdown. Which to the outside world probably looks like some form of catatonic state. For me, increased incidences of shutdowns are also a good indicator of a potential burnout. Luckily these do not happen too often. Thanks again.
Thank you so much for this video, Quinn. It came at exactly the right time for me. I am more of a "shutdown" autist, and until now I did not believe that the few meltdowns I've had actually "counted" as meltdowns because I was "just" getting upset and crying. Recently, however, circumstances beyond my control pushed me into my first full-on meltdown where I ended up in a state where I went completely non-verbal and did little other than scream incoherently. Because nothing like this has ever happened in my 37 years, I was very frightened of the experience. I'd like to write to you about it. Perhaps it will assist you in your studies to see how a list of factors can lead a shutdown autist into a meltdown? It seems I have a rather deep "tub" and maybe it takes longer to fill, but meltdowns can happen to me
Sure we all want to be happy but sometimes a person can be so unhappy for so long that happy feels wrong and uncomfortable on the rare occasions it happens. Then there's being use to narcissistic people in our lives going out of their way to bring you down when you were happy as a child so have learnt to avoid feeling it as to remove the chance of only ending up crushed.
61 next month. I had a massive meltdown with my therapist last week. Most of the support she has worked to gather, have let me and her down (very poor support here in Cornwall), putting lots of pressure on me. To cope, I’ve been drinking, and because I’m overwhelmed, I’ve been isolating for that last 2 and a half months, cutting all communication to those around me (who are far too busy with their lives…it’s ok, I do understand)…it all got too much and had the meltdown. I’m just worried how others view meltdowns, think I’m selfish, childish, self-centred, drama queen, being judged etc etc…all this just adds even more pressure and stress onto me….so very frustrating. Thank you for this upload Quinn, and also to the commenters, you all help me so much 👍
By way of validation and support (not quick fixes) please allow me to say that autism continues to be massively misunderstood by medical and behavioral health professionals, so their advice, often appropriate for neurotypical patients/clients (the majority) is not adequate for autistic people. It sounds like your well-intentioned therapist is not up to the task of supporting you. If you are diagnosed as autistic, I'd suggest seeking ways to inform and educate those closest to you about your realistic "differences" and challenges, as well as strengths. As for the uninformed neurotypical "others," perhaps mask as necessary to function in neurotypical society but establish plenty of time to be your autistic self alone or with an autistic friend if possible. Please don't despair and also seek out the helpful members of the autistic community here on RUclips and other social platforms, to feel less isolated. Peace.
8 hours after posting, YT showed me this video on a random page refresh of my home page... Subscribed. Thank you Quinn. Fwiw, one of my relaxations (when I could afford it) is meditating in a deprivation tank. Except for the tinnitus, it is glorious! :D
So happy to see you back! This one was very thought-provoking. I'm glad to hear that you are beginning to manage again after your loss. Those early days of life adjustment and grief are difficult to deal with, but I will continue to keep you in my thoughts as I know the process takes a long time. It's good to know that you still intend to move ahead with your plans and feel able to continue making great content.
So I’m only my first year into the discovery phase and I’ve come to recognise that I do in fact have meltdowns. But it looks nothing like what I’ve seen on tv. Sometimes I’ll get really upset about something to the point I can’t stop, and it gets so intense I find myself either screaming out loud or curling into a ball pulling my hair. Other times it will seem like I’ve got everything under control until one small thing goes wrong and the guilt sets in, and my brain gets stuck, everything in my surroundings gets louder, and every part of me wants to curl into a ball. I come out of every meltdown feeling sadness and it takes days for my emotions to settle down. The meltdowns where I’ve felt really angry, my husband’s helped me regulate my emotions by giving me a firm hug. This works for me cuz pressure is a form of stimming that works for me personally. I will warn everyone to not hug or restrain an autistic individual unless they’ve told you that you can do this to help them. Recently my husband recommended I use my AirPods when we were in a busy cafeteria. It didn’t remove the sound entirely but it lowered the volume a little which helped me feel less overwhelmed.
My meltdowns have always been more noticeable than my social deficits. "Panic attacks" got a lot of attention. My social issues were considered by my family only slight "eccentricities". Although, at school I was considered downright annoying. LOL
Quinn, I just wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart and soul for your fantastic insight. Even this video has taught me so very much more about myself, I simply can’t express how much your help means. I’m going to look up your Patreon, I didn’t realise you had one. There’s so many things I want to say, add and suggest but seriously can’t order my thoughts just now! My mind is like a pinball machine! Many thanks again. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I was diagnosed in 2016, but I basically just raw dogged the whole thing. I just continued acting the way I had already been acting. Since 2022 I've been working on it, and I've gone from melting down multiple times a week to melting down maybe once every few months or so at most.
Even after watching this video, I'm still not sure if I've ever had an autistic meltdown (vs. an "ordinary" meltdown). Surely allistic people can get overwhelmed to the point that they have meltdowns, too? I'm more confident that I've had the occasional autistic shutdown. For me, the "straw that broke the camel's back" seem to be sensory (mostly sound and light, though noxious smells can sometimes do it, too), and what I would call "time pressure." Time pressure is when it feels like I don't have time to get necessary things done. It's only within the last year or two that I've come to realize that it's really more about the number of unresolved things on my internal "to do" list, even if there isn't immediate urgency to get them done. I think that worry that I'll forget something important (kind of like the nightmare about forgetting one of your classes, and never showing up for it) is a big part of it. Similar to your bathtub analogy, I think of having a reservoir for those stressors. I can shove a limited amount of them into the reservoir before it becomes full, and my ability to cope degrades rapidly. As the reservoir gets fuller, I get more anxious to find a time/place/way to empty that reservoir. The stressors are caustic, so if they stay in the reservoir too long, the reservoir starts to get damaged and unable to hold anything more (or even just what it was already holding). As it starts to get full, I start refusing things more -- even things that shouldn't add to the stress, or might normally be enjoyable. This makes me wonder if the "flood" is related to Pathological Demand Avoidance (that PDA might be a symptom of someone whose bathtub or reservoir is nearly full).
Thank you for this very informative video. "The flood" from an overflowing bathtub describes the experience so accurately for me. I am one of the autistic people who has always experienced meltdowns and shutdowns. They still occur more often than I would wish and I am coming to accept that they most likely will be inevitable for me. A closed off road on my way to work can trigger a meltdown...
Looking back at my childhood I can see how I was removed from most stressors because I was introverted enough to be happy when I wasn't in the middle of things outside if the house. At home things were pretty chill also. I can recognize that I had several Shutdowns as I grew up but that was it. Several years into marriage and the stressors of a typical adult life I had more and more Shutdowns but was able to keep them mostly to myself. I have had a half dozen explosive Meltdowns over the past decade though that led me to see that there was more to my neurodiversity than ADHD. I am 51, was diagnosed with ADHD (trying to figure out why life and relationships were getting harder) just a few years ago. But after reading about Autism and viewing Navy videos and taking all the online tests I can find I am confident enough to self-identify as autistic. I wonder how common it is to mask the crap out of life to the point that you don't ever really have a Meltdown until much later in life. Anyone else experience this?
glad you're back. grateful for the insightful & helpful video. i really dug the flood metaphor and the fight/flight tie-in. that actually goes a long way toward answering one of my burning questions. keep on keeping on.
Quinn this is brilliant. Thank you!! The triad simplifies a lot. I’ve been trying to explain what this is like and what tips me over to my husband and that it isn’t always going to be as extreme- I just need to get the hang of it. I do get overwhelmed by people’s emotions- even if they aren’t making a point of their mood I can be so affected I can’t function. The triad explains that really well. Thank you!
Still thinking about the possible categories for skills and ... unsurprisingly, it's really very tricky. 😅 Where I'm at right now (and I'm sure I've missed a whole bunch of stuff and then there's the possible overlapping, as well), I would think five main categories, each with some sub-categories (which can all be divided into more concrete skills): - COGNITIVE: Abstract thinking (theoretical, mathematical) * Critical thinking * Creative/innovative * Analytical/problem-solving * Adaptive/coping - EXECUTIVE: Impulse control * Working memory * Planning & prioritizing * Task initiation * Time management * Focus/attention - MOTOR: Gross * Fine - INTERPERSONAL: Verbal (understanding and using) * Non-verbal (understanding and using) * Working together (conflict resolution, patience, etc.) * Empathy * Reciprocity - PERSONAL: Self-care (food, drink, hygiene, sleep) * Self-monitoring (understanding own body, emotions, behaviours) * Self-regulation One of the problems is that a lot of these things have an effect on others on the list (but if you made it into a flow chart sort of thing, it would be extremely elaborate and complex). And how you would 'rate' the skills is definitely another tricky question. I guess the question you *could* ask is 'Can I get by in today's society (wherever you live) when this particular skill is at the current level?' 'Can I give what is required of me (by society) to live?', so to speak. 'Thriving' would be another matter altogether ... And an actually *objective* means of measuring levels? No idea. Sorry this is so long! Just thinking out loud. 🤔
I recently posted a video of myself in mid-meltdown on the verge of shutdown... sharing this was difficult because I know most people won't understand. My meltdowns are rarely aggressive and often internalized and almost always preceed a complete shut down and withdrawal. It's a "functional freeze" state that can last for days, sometimes weeks. Thank you for sharing this and creating more awareness around the individual differences we experience. ❤
Thank you for this excellent video (as always). I am so sorry for your loss. 😢 May you and your loved ones continue to find peace during this difficult time.
Great! Experience is the greatest teacher. I still have meltdowns, but I struggle to have shutdowns instead. My meltdowns are explosive for a brief moment. As a child I would throw or damage anything in my hand or reach, shout, shiver, cry, then go silent. It's over as soon as it started. My adult shutdowns are just that, isolation, sometimes escape to nature if possible. It's like a reboot.
Two of the ways I have instant meltdowns is (1.) garlic, and (2.) other person raising their voice too loud. The meltdown comes instantly in response to these things, and can happen even without an overload building beforehand. My meltdown is totally involuntary and there's nothing I can do to control it once it is triggered by either of those two things. Of course, there are other things besides those two that cause me meltdowns. But, those two do not require any overwhelm building up in advance.
The flood... Wow. I found your channel recently so this is the first vid I'm watching as it comes out of yours. It feels like you've given me a gift of understanding from this video.
I nearly had a meltdown 8 months ago. I was 29, and I was in a loud and hot restaurant that I’ve never been to before, and never been to that style of restaurant before. It was a Japanese BBQ restaurant, and the BBQ pit is in the middle of the table. The noise, the heat of the fire, and just knowing how close the fire was, was debilitating for me. I had to leave the restaurant and wait for everyone else to finish. If I was 10 years younger, I suspect that my parents would have insisted on me staying, and I have no doubt that I would have had a full meltdown. Instead, I experienced an anxiety attack because I was able to leave.
Wow, Quinn! That is the best explanation of the experience of Autistic meltdowns and shut-downs. The Autistic flood is a great way to describe the experience of overload coming from every direction. Thanks Quinn. I hope you are doing ok. 🌼
Thank you for eloquently describing by day to day emotional turmoil so well with the bath/flood explanation. As someone who hurts themself during meltdowns: the work I have had (alone because I can’t afford therapy) put in to avoid them has left me completely isolated and afraid to deal with any emotion, because I know the flood that will come when I let that dam break will consume me and I’m not sure I’ll survive it.
As an adult I’ve had one minor episode of meltdown where I very nearly eloped, but managed to just hide in my car vs sprinting down the street. I get shutdowns at least a couple times a week, usually “just” going nonspeaking for a bit. It is a scary experience, especially as a parent and spouse who needs to be able to communicate. I can usually mime or type my needs if the shutdown isn’t too bad, but sometimes I just give my wife this dead look and she gets it.
I didn't realise I experienced meltdowns. I think I may have normailsed aspects that I present. A relative explained their young child's 'meltdowns' almost exactly as I have had them. Shut-downs can happen anywhere, but 'meltdowns' is usually only in private. As a child, I presented them to my parents, who had no background to help me apart from the GP's word was their authority. Unrecognised they continued and I must've learnt to conceal them. I still experience them but on a lesser frequency. I have quite recently identified that in private I have adopted cursing at relatively innocuous things/events in a forceful tone. I curse and continue whatever I was doing unburdened. I have made the connection of this with the distance between my 'meltdowns' regularity being wider apart. The onset of a 'meltdown' is briefly preceded by the feeling my forehead is being peeled back, my head burns with unnerving light headedness. This is my warning its about to occur. What succeeds will be from a variety of things some semi-conscious and some not conscious at all. I did have a partner whose manner towards me was overwhelming. That may also indicate why the frequency has reduced.
I am self-identified since the end of 2022 now, and will be 40 in 2 years. I've reflected on everything regarding me and my life at length, even formulating a self-anamnesis that grew to be 80+ pages long. I had trouble understanding, defining and identifying what meltdowns meant and mean for me, how they may have manifested for me. I could make out a couple of instances in my childhood and youth were I very clearly had - what I know think were - meltdowns, which is just a short term for my being a hyperventilating, hysterically sobbing mess that couldn't be calmed down or reasoned with, or was in any way able to connect or interact with the outside world while being in that state. What I learned throughout my looking back on my life, is that I had shutdowns way more often than I had meltdowns, and this holds true to this day, although I haven't experienced any of these states really in the past few years, or at least not as intense as during my childhood and youth. For the longest time I misunderstood both of these extreme states as panic attacks or states of intense dissociation / depersonalization / derealization, which are words or vocabulary that were given to me as explanations by psychologists throughout several therapies I've attempted. During these I was (I think now, in part falsely) diagnosed with depression / dysthymia, social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, borderline personality disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder. Realizing that all of this ties back to and can be explained by my being autistic was an eye-opener, to say the least. Thanks to your content I was able to add another vocabulary item to my personal dictionary, so to speak: autistic flood. That term I understood immediately, your explanation makes a lot of sense to me and thus I can very much say that I am very familiar with this concept or rather my experience with it as well, and this state and everything that comes with it I experience much more often - but am often and fortunately able to mitigate it to some extent or prolong the tsunami-like wave of this flood washing over me and taking me with it, also and especially since I've learned that I am (or rather might) be autistic and been able to learn a lot about not only myself, but also about the experiences of others and what helped them in various areas of (daily) life. Thanks for your content and for your way of wording and explaining things. Your work deserves much more attention and support than it is receiving.
Welcome back Quinn and thanks for another informative video! I personally can experience severe meltdowns (mostly internalized shutdowns) that can leave me almost catatonic for days. I am not in the slighest embaressed by them though, when they happen im far too distressed to worry about what people think of me and afterwards im too numb to really care. However I have met some autistic people who dont seem to experience meltdowns at all. It really does reinforce that each of us is uniquely different, even though we can share many similarities.
I just want to say thank you for this video, the timing couldn't have been more perfect. I'm 45 and just discovered I may be autistic. I have my official assessment in 2 days and it has been weighing on me heavily. Last night everything came to a head and I had a major meltdown, terrifying my wife and dogs. After it happened I fled the house in embarrassment, drove for an hour trying to escape myself, eventually finding myself down an extremely remote logging road. Too ashamed to return, I slept half the night in my vehicle. Today I've been feeling hopeless and helpless. You have given me signs to watch for and the tools to help. Thank you and my condolences.
At the beginning of my journey, I truly believed that I had never experienced a "meltdown." It took years of research, hearing other neurodivergance perspectives before I realized that I had, and much more often than I realized. Some of my earliest memories are of being told that I am overreacting, and in all of the instances of meltdowns as I grew up, I was literally fighting myself, which quickly turned me to shutdown instead. This fighting and trying to stay in control of my words or actions during these states has made them extra exhausting. Holding myself so tight that I don't punch the walls, beat my head against something hard, or simply release blood curdling screams for 5-10 minutes could put me to sleep for 12 hours or simply shut down my entire emotional system for a day or so. I didn't recognize these meltdowns because they were rarely dramatic or disruptive to anyone outside myself, and the results of such events were often criticized, and I was made to feel guilty. No one seemed to understand how difficult any kind of control was, which left me to believe I was just a bad person and I could control those things if I really wanted to. Due to recent life events and extreme burnout, I have experienced meltdowns more often than I have before in my adult years. I have nearly lost the ability to have the control I could have exerted as a younger adult. Thankfully, I have a better understanding of what is happening, and so does my support system. I can allow it to play out whilst removing myself from environments that are helping the overload. It is still frustrating to have times when I feel little to no control over myself, but knowing what is happening, having support, and maybe even understanding what has triggered it, has made them somewhat less detrimental to my mental health.
I have meltdowns several times a week, they are involuntary. I'm 47, autistic, bipolar. People keep overwhelming me. The neighborhood is so noisy. The paperwork and phone calls is just too much. I never want meltdowns, they hurt, physically. The pain of meltdowns is worse than the embarrassment. I know I would not have meltdowns if this world didnt force too much into my life. I been asked a few times, what can they do when I have a meltdown. I tell them, do nothing. Do nothing. Let it drain out. Best way to deal with my meltdowns is to prevent them. I cant control other people. Other people trigger my meltdowns.
My floods aren't very aggressive, It's mostly just a f..k off event. And after that I need a lot of time to recover, while the f..k off event gets stuck in my head until I can let it go. It can last over a week before I'm back to my unstable self.
I would love to hear about challenging social experiences and acceptance of being different. I am baffled by social overwhelm and low social battery...and never knowing if I will be more capable like a social butterfly with less "errors" OR less capable and show up more "unique" or looking like a wall flower- who actually wants to blow away out the door or into a closet! And this can be in the same social setting, just a different day!
thank you! your videos are always helping me feel understood. ive described the spoken of experiences on my own with very similar vocabulary all the time and its like rewatching a movie youve seen countless times and know the plot already. tho its stressing to having examples of such experiences flash before my inner eye, but thats not your fault, and it also kinda helps to assign them in my mental archive. i find the term "stress events" very fitting, tho i dont connect "meltdown" with a negative connotation myself. actually i find it pretty fitting for the "major" stress events, cause it actually feels like all my emotions are melting into a toxic alloy. the worst feelings i associate with stress events is not embarrassment in front of others, but rather shame due to my loss of self-control, shock of what i did or can do and simply being overwhelmed with everything. thats for the "meltdowns". in regards to shutdowns, it simply that i felt powerless and hopeless, unable to manage the (often social) situation
For me, finding myself in a 'meltdown' has most often been triggered by circumstances. I think it may be possible to not encounter these environmental circumstances for long periods. So yes it is possible for autistic people to not experience meltdowns. I've had them, they are episodes of "re-enforcing my boundaries" ...that may be a tad dramatic. Mostly I walk away, but sometimes I am unable to. Boundaries are a work in progress for everyone.
While meltdowns are embarrassing they don't happen that often may be few times a year. The social difficulties are by far the hardest part. Small talk and knowing you are missing 93% of the conversation. Misunderstandings and feeling like you are tying to explain topic to brick walls. People assuming you are not engaged when you are and when you are not then assuming you are. Getting trouble for not picking up on non verbal social cues. That's the hardest part for me. That and autistic burn out though I would not know about autistic burn out till I was much older.
I would love: 1: Advice on how to handle doctors and nurses. I have a very high tolerans of pain, and don't really show emotions such as pain. So I always get the : No, you are lying, bc I can tell you are not in pain. So I've fainted from the pain of a kidney stone, had to do A Lot of emergency surgeries. It's given me a mountain of ptsd, and now I just try to treat everything with Dr. Google, bc that feels so much safer. 2. Our reaction to medicines, and how (why) it can differ so much from the nt. I got very ill, and had to undergo 20+ surgeries. Not once was I given effective pain relief. Eight months at the hospital, and not one day or night when I didn't have to fight 120% to just get some relief from that abyss of pain. Swedish doctors and nurses are highly incompetent in this matter (as my story proves). What can be done? Is there any research done? Does anyone else have that problem? Well, thank you so much for all your hard work. Much ❤ from 🇸🇪
I made a video about autistic pain responses a couple of years ago. Let me know what you'd like me to elaborate on or expand & I'll take it on board for future content. ruclips.net/video/l8z84irE57E/видео.html
For the longest time, I didn't even realize I was having meltdowns and shutdowns. I thought they were PTSD flashbacks (which I also have). But none of the trauma therapy or tools for those helped. It was only once I realized I was autistic that I learned they were meltdowns. They sometimes followed actual flashbacks, which added to the confusion. I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out what unaddressed trauma I needed to work on so I would stop getting triggered into them. This made me feel like a failure at therapy. Once I learned about meltdowns and taking the steps to prevent and address them, they got less frequent and severe. They still happen more than I'd like, but at least now I know. For me, flashbacks always come with a very strong story line that is tied to the past and that I will get stuck on believing is happening now. Meltdowns have no story, just wanting everything to stop. They are not the worst part of autism for me though. The social difficulties and stigma are.
I unfortunately started to meltdown again after my shutdowns weren't actually protecting me from stressors. This was not a choice, it just started happening and I had no idea what was going on. I now have come to realise what my triggers are: disrespect, arrogance and belittlement. And these don't need to be directed at me for it to happen. I am literally one of the most tranquil guys you could ever hope to meet, which is why these events have gotten me into so much trouble. I can no longer work because of it for the past five years forcing me to figure it out for myself. I now in the midst of the struggle to get my formal diagnosis so I can get the support I need to return to being a member of society. I kinda been cast adrift. And I am not the only person this has happened to.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
I have to say that in my case, meltdowns really *are* one of the worst aspects - but not because of embarrassment. It’s the judgement of others who assume you’re just being badly-behaved, self-centered, and deliberately throwing a tantrum. They make me feel like I’m a bad person just because I can’t regulate my nervous system and emotions.
Absolutely this. One of my biggest fears is having a meltdown in front of other people and its entirely justified. It has destroyed my relationships with people at best and has lead to me experiencing violence or homelessness at worst.
Non-autistic people see my meltdowns as my "true colors coming out." They believe who I am during meltdowns paints an authentic, honest portrayal of who I am on the inside. They refuse to understand that I behave that way because I'm scared and overwhelmed. That I spend days after my meltdowns drowning in shame and self-loathing. They see my true feelings as an act and my meltdowns as authentic when that couldn't be further from the truth.
@ I’m so sorry you had to go through that. 😔 It’s almost impossible to explain to people that it’s an involuntary process, and that sometimes it feels as if you are being controlled by an unseen force. Even my own mother (who is also Autistic, but has shutdowns instead of meltdowns) doesn’t really understand what it’s like to completely lose control of your entire system. I hope you have/find people in your life who see you for who you really are. 😊
I'm kind of the same, as a late diagnosed Gen Xer, that's 5 decades of weathering the uncharitable neurotypical response to them, as well as the distress of experiencing them. That said, this video is incredible and has helped me understand it more than ever, so hopefully I can take this information into the world and help others see them for what they actually are.
Yeah my mom’s often told me I throw tantrums, and until recently I thought she was right. But It was never cuz I wanted control or cuz I couldn’t get my way, it was usually always cuz she was pushing me to the point of overwhelm. I’d always go back to my room feeling so emotional and sad, and not because I “threw a tantrum”, but rather because it was a way to release some of that built up pressure / energy.
You probably don’t like to be hugged in person. The autistic person I know and love has about an 18-inch perimeter. So here’s a virtual hug from me🤗❤️. I’m sorry for the way people are so quick to judge, but slow to understand. Wishing you a great day, in which your boundaries are safe, and you don’t feel that awful sensory overload.
I literally checked your channel just a few seconds ago to see if there was anything new! 🍸 cheers, Quinn!
I remember when I was a kid, our fridge freezer started tripping the main breaker switch, my mum called a refrigerator repair man from the yellow pages, he condemned it, said you couldn't repair it (some bollocks about modern computerised electronics) and offered to take it away for free as he owned a shop for spares/repairs. Since it had been condemned I asked my mum if I could take it apart and I managed to diagnose the issue and found a part number to order a replacement, the defrost heater element had shorted against the outer metal casing it was contained within and when it switched on it tripped the breaker. I told my mum that the refrigerator repair man was probably a conman (with the business model of collecting call out charges and then taking away repairable fridge and/or freezers for free under the guise that you can't repair modern electronics). 😂 The fridge/freezer lasted my mum another 15 years before she sold it to somebody else when she moved house.
I was waiting for when meltdown would enter the story
@@HarryPotter-kb7weThe freezer is probably still going strong. No meltdown in this story.
@@HarryPotter-kb7weweren't you paying attention? The freezer quit working. Everything in it would have melted down.
Maybe the ice in the fridge was having some meltdown 😂
Interesting story, and all too common. However, I get the impression that you were trying to respond to another video. When in a playlist, YT automatically goes to the next video, but keeps what you're typing and applies it to the next video's comments. Perhaps you were commenting on a previous video when that video ended and landed you here?
What I really love about your videos are the pauses. Gives me time to digest what you just said. Very few content creators do this. Keep it up!
I'm a shutdown-type autistic. In the most extreme cases I actually pass out, but in any "normal" shutdown I will become increasingly non-verbal, quiet and still.
I've explained a shutdown to other people before using analogies with computers. A shutdown is a bit like when a PC goes blue-screen, and sometimes when it ends I will restart in safe mode, which isn't remotely as clever as normal mode.
Helping my autistic children when they have meltdowns (rare for one, more common for the other) means creating a safe space physically but also for the senses. Sometimes that means providing a safe smell/texture/object/sound, or just removing the distressing stimulus. It very often means firmly telling other people to back off, and reminding them that child is not operating in normal mode. They can't hear you, or rather they can't process what you are saying.
Great video, thank you! The Autistic Triad is very interesting and I will give it some thought. I look forward to hearing what you and others have to say.
I get both. I find that suppressing meltdowns makes shutdowns happen.
Sucks when you can't talk, can't move, can't think, and suddenly can't do anything except sleep.
I used to have meltdowns as a child. Being undiagnosed, they were treated as tantrums. I learned to mostly switch them to shut downs as an adult. They are horrible when they happen. And no, it is not due to embarrassment; it's the exhaustion and shame and lack of control and feeling like a bad person. I don't get them often now, not because I've figured things out but because I've made my life so small the flood doesn't happen often anymore. I am looking forward to your next video and learning new tools.
I am sorry to hear of your loss and hope your grief has moved to a more tolerable level.
Great video Quinn! There's one more point I'd like to add about meltdowns. Everyone has meltdowns/shutdowns when stress is too much to handle. Every single human... except, perhaps a true psychopath. The reason autistics seem to have them more often than neurotypicals is because autistics are under more stress than neurotypicals. Meltdowns should be seen as evidence for the amount of stress someone is under, which means having real conversations around what stresses that person out.
Agreed. And neurotypicals, who, indeed, are not coping with CONSTANT "invisible" internal and external stresses, as autistics do, actually melt down in more acceptable (recognizable) ways: slam doors while exiting, escape and cry in private, insult and belittle colleagues, friends or family members, actually push or punch others in reaction to words, scream at or hit children or dogs, drive recklessly and get in road rage altercations, etc.
I am late diagnosed at age 70. I functioned. Jungian Therapist, Director of social service agency, meditation teacher, business owner. I didn't know I was having meltdowns... just TOO sensitive is the internal judgement I lived with. As soon as I started 'unmasking' I started experiencing meltdowns... just like a child throwing a temper tantrum... only clearly it wasn't. I love your new concept almost as much as I love my tubbies, and I plan to stay with you to learn more. Thank you 🙏
In terms of my autist skills, I remember most everything I hear. I have a genius IQ and process information at complex levels. I see and feel patterns that lend to advanced intuitive skills. And, in balance, I am very, very, very sensitive to sensory stimulus and undertones in communication.
That last paragraph sounds like me too.
@@Baptized_in_Fire. it's such a good feeling to know that... we are not alone
@@Ahnalira it's the best feeling of validation :)
During my teens I remember having half a dozen or so of what I thought were blinding, violent “berserker” rages where I lost total control and couldn’t really remember what I’d done after. Looking back now, as an undiagnosed man of 59, they were, I guess, meltdowns. They scared the absolute bejesus out of me, to the point I was terrified I would kill somebody during them. This terror of doing something like that shaped the way I started to behave, how I approached and sometimes avoided confrontations, and how I tried to consciously control myself. It worked. I’ve come close to losing it on many occasions but I’ve managed to avoid total meltdowns.
Also, my condolences for your loss.
I think this is the best and most comprehensive explanation of meltdowns and shutdowns that I've come across. I'm absolutely saving it & sharing with everyone!
As with Jenn, my meltdowns and shutdowns have never been as extreme as I've seen them described by others. I haven't experienced too many of them, but that's probably because all of my life (childhood and adulthood) I've been dissociating a lot, thus protecting me from the flood.
Same I tend to dissociate the most. I’ll go a few years without having a meltdown and I’ll have one and explode and go another few years without having one.
I vote for social communications as the worst part of autism. It's a long, drip-drip-drip of miscommunications and misunderstandings.
Meltdowns are just an outburst of frustration. It's not so much embarrassing as it is disregulating. I lose all control of what I'm trying to do. I really hate losing control.
Since finding the autistic community I've learned a lot of words. Meltdown is one of the more useful. It's basically what it feels like for me.
"Special Interest" not so much. It's like I should have one special thing above all others. "Fascination" is more my style. A series of interests that are intense, with study and reading and spending too much money on samples for my collection.
I tend to have meltdowns when I'm stuck somewhere I don't want to be dealing with other people or stressers. As a child I would have them at the Daycare my parents left me at before and after school while they worked. All I wanted when I was there was to be at home in my room with my things away from all the other people I wasn't getting along with. Eventually one of the other kids would get to me and I would have enough. I wanted them to stop and leave me alone but when ever they would get me to react I would get in trouble and what they did to cause the outburst would go unnoticed. Since no one would hear me and help me I started acting out more during these times. Switching to melting down instead of shutting down since shut downs didn't stop it. I started reacting by breaking things or throwing chairs. The people at the daycare had to literally drag me up the stairs and through the hallways as I grabbed onto anything I could reach. Latching onto door frames or anything else to stop make it more difficult. If it didn't stay attached to the wall it went flying. I would rip things off the walls in the office and try to break everything I could. I just wanted them to listen. I just wanted the other kids to leave me alone. But when all calls for help were met with me getting punished I didn't know what else to do. After a while in the office away from the other kids I would calm down. As an adult I can control where I am so do not have meltdowns this sever any more because I can just go else where or back home if I want to.
My condolenses for you and your family's loss Quinn; This was a Meltdown Masterpiece which I will be sharing and rewatching. Welcome back and your plan to talk more about the Triad and delve more into other concepts you have previously spoken about is exciting ! 🖖
I like your description of "the flood" and why it occurs. It makes a lot of sense. For me, the flood happens far too late to prevent the evemt from happening - it usually gives me just enough time to go somewhere private.
Thanks for this, Quinn. In childhood I used to have quite explosive meltdowns (was called the volcanic hippy). As I grew up, those explosive episodes became internalised and morphed into shutdowns. I lose the ability to talk. There are too many overwelming. threads of thought zooming around in my head for me to make sense of. I feel my body vibrate. Flood explains it very well.
I then need isolation to ground myself and recalibrate. Only then can I review what happened and talk about the issue.
Wow, that's the clearest explanation of meltdowns and shutdowns I stumbled upon by FAR!
And it lifts a weight from my imposter syndrome now that I don't experience meltdowns anymore and that shutdowns are rarer and rarer.
Thanks so much Quinn!!
17:20 Stress beyond our ability to cope, literally PTSD, with trigger events and all. Everyone forgets the S is STRESS.
What an interesting video, well done. But it saddens me that you had this big loss in your life and I hope the pain and grief ease quickly.
I am one of those who had these explosive outbursts relatively often while young, but now I tend to only shut down. Sometimes I can deay them a little until I am in a safe place or make my body do things or say some words during a shutdown, but it is a tremendous effort and that costs me dearly later. Still, this has always been a cause for doubt, if I could do these things then can I really call them shutdowns? Hearing from your experiences is very helpful, forsooth. This concept of the Flood is much more useful to me. Thank you for this.
I didn't have meltdowns for 39 years. A lot of trauma came my way in my 40s and I have them now. Very badly. It's become a huge source of shame.
I actually am finding the embarassment and humiliation of meltdowns extremely problematic lately. After all my other self acceptance and accommodation I can't seem to handle this one. I have abandoned social groups and internet chats and family alike over my extreme shame around being seen having a meltdown. The after-the-fact conversations with people seem to be extremely difficult and I end up having to explain and defend myself and unpack all of my emotions for the person trying to "help" with the meltdowns, and that can trigger ...you guessed it.... another meltdown, It takes days or weeks to recover physicallly and emotionally. I often am terrified to be around the same people again because I am afraid the interactions will cascade into more meltdowns out of a fear of having one in front of them to begin with. It's really got me in hermit mode honestly. I'm afraid to go outside my house in case I have one I don't want to be seen in public.
I began to have meltdowns with an abusive relationship that sent me out to the street with no place to live. I began having meltdowns in public when I was homeless and police would verbally abuse me during them instead of helping me in any way. One officer told me he'd (insert violent against women sexual act here) if I didn't shut up. And homeless men would harass me mid-meltdown because I couldn't defend myself or even stand up and leave by the time I'm crying and flailing. One man tried to physically pin me down in a restraint move he had seen on TV but I was on some gravel and it was very painful and I consider it an assault. Another tried to take control of my vehicle when I felt the meltdown coming and I myself tried to slow down and urgently insisted we park the car and he tried to wrestle my car keys from my own hands and after that time I can't believe I let him in my car a second time but he learned he could provoke meltdowns and tried to steal the car that way a second time. That was how we got police attention actually.
TLDR: As a homeless woman with autism meltdowns comes with a huge fear of social rejection, denial of services, exploitation, and potentially violence for me.
Afterthought on shutdowns: I must have had them too before my 40s and before my diagnosis. It's hard to pinpoint a time though. I'm wondering if maybe I just spent actual whole years and decades in shutdown? It would explain my poor decision making, burnout, failures, losses, and all the stuff in my early adulthood that led to the disaster that is now.
I have a theory that meltdowns weren't possible for me until after the car accident, which changed some of my cognitive skills for the worse.
@@Authentistic-ismI’m sorry to hear what a terrible time you have had. The things that you describe happening to you are just awful.
Just a point about shutdowns and where you said you wondered if you might have been in shutdown over decades: a proper shutdown involves things like loss of peripheral vision, hearing as if everything is far away, the inability to form sentences and speak properly. What you might have experienced over extended periods could be long-term depression since that is a symptom of cPTSD.
I speak from my own experience.
Thanks for that reply @tracik1277
@Authentistic-ism It might be worthwhile looking into information on autistic burnout too. It's not a topic I've covered in depth myself, but have experienced.
A shutdown, however it manifests, is a temporary, short-term event, but they can be a symptomatic indicator of underlying mental health complications.
This is the best video I've seen on this topic, and I've been watching videos on autism non-stop for weeks. Thank you for your work.
It's really good to see you again, Quinn!
Firstly, my condolences on your loss. It's incredibly difficult to lose someone close to you, in so many ways.
Secondly, the video - both the subject matter and how it looks - were absolutely excellent. Wonderful that it was a nice and long deep-dive, as well! I wish I could offer some interesting thoughts into skills categories, but it's been a long day and the spoons (and, to be fair, brain cells) are just not there. Can't wait to see what others come up with!
Thanks, youtube, for recommending this channel. First time watcher. Diagnosed with ASD and ADHD 6 years ago at age 65. I have had a few meltdowns over the years, but (AFAIK) my wife is only person who witnessed one. All the others have been "private", thankfully. I experience them as amp-turned-up-to-11 bursts of intense rage, and in many cases, something ends up broken. Now that I've been diagnosed, and I've watched and read content from autistics and therapists, I can recognize the warning signs and get myself away from the trigger before I get slammed with 2 tons of rage.
thank you Quinn for continually updating my vocab so now I at least have an outside shot at describing where I'm at to people in my life. The "Autistic Flood" will be particularly useful I think.
Glad to be of service😊
I was diagnosed with autism and adhd a year and a half ago at the age of 66.
My meltdowns are few and far between, and is generally what I would call an “explosion” of words or actions. If the trigger was physical, my response was physical; if verbal, my response was verbal.
After the catharsis I would feel bad, guilty.
Mostly I experience shut downs, mot melt downs.
suggestion on spiky skill set:
We tend to be better at the general population at deliberately pushing through barriers and changing our own "programming" deliberately (we can override our nervous system's alarms in ways that allistics cannot imagine, because while their alarms are less sensitive, they are tied to failsafe shut downs).
AND
We tend not to change our programming in ways which are not deliberate/explicit/consciously guided. In other words, we don't "grow out of" things just as a matter of course or because our peers are no longer doing those things or because those behaviors no longer produce the result which allowed them to become part of the programming in the first place.
I think this goes along with the research showing that we don't experience spontaneous neural apoptosis in the same way that typically-developing humans do. We aren't going to stop having the feelings of dependency or need for coregulation that we had as infants just because we reach that phase of development (between 4 and 6) where most people's nervous systems would go, "Hey. We can actually run away from danger pretty fast now. We probably don't need to think we will die if we can't get adults to help us right away." We need to logically conclude that we can now keep ourself safe and solve problems with less immediate adult/caregiver attention, and teach our nervous systems to try those strategies before panicking at not getting help. But once we learn how to soothe our nervous systems and steer our thoughts, our ability to push through discomfort, recognize patterns from even small data sets, and speak truth with precision, we tend to be very good at that reprogramming.
But these factors are also why some behavioral modification "treatments" such as ABA and CBT, often do more harm than good, particularly when they are not enacted with our full understanding and consent.
I often describe meltdowns and burnouts as a dam breaking. Lots of cracks and leaks over the years too.
Took me a while to get what you meant by veracity but once I did, I realised this may be my biggest difference or area where I struggle, although coping with unexpected changes is a strong contender. I find recieving vague or incomplete information extremely stressful (for example "let's meet tomorrow" where?! When until when?! Who exactly is going to be there?!). I also find it difficult both to lie and to put up with lies. I feel an intense upwelling of rage whenever someone lies, especially if that lie goes uncorrected or unchallenged, whether it was intentional deception or because they were working from faulty information. As you can imagine, I have to engage with politics in tiny doses for the sake of my own sanity. Although that might not be so unusual.
Thank you for helping me understand myself better. I do sometimes experience meltdowns, even though I'm 48 and have been making a lot of progress through group therapy in managing my emotions. That triad is so relatable for me, and I can absolutely say that at least one of them contributed heavily to every meltdown. Also, yes, the best thing anyone can do for me once I'm in one is to reduce input & just let me cry it out. I'm subscribing because you're not just sharing your experience; you're sharing the experiences of hundreds of autistic people in an educational format. Thank you!
Thank you for the support of no hidden message or agenda in meltdowns 💙👊
Yes, there is absolutely no agenda. In fact your agency, which is what’s required in order to have an agenda, has been completely depleted and stripped from you, and that’s what has caused the meltdown in the first place. So the NT idea that we are having a meltdown in order to ‘get our own way’ is utterly ridiculous. The only thing we want is for the legitimate needs that have been systematically ignored over a period of time and the final ‘straw that broke the camel’s back’ to have not happened and that we were not now experiencing the meltdown and the inevitable fallout that will follow. The only thing that can help at all when it’s already become too late, is that they back off and learn how to not be such ignorant ****s in the first place.
Brilliant and validating content again- thank you! Frustrating and heartbreaking how things are but wonderful to know I’m not alone anymore
1) Meltdowns don't happen enough for me for them to be the worst part of autism... in fact, NONE of the autistic people I know find meltdowns the worst part of autism.
2) Embarrassment is not even close to the worst part of meltdowns. The worst part of meltdowns is the trigger -- usually that I just told someone what I needed and they dismissed/gaslit me. The second worst part of meltdowns is the exhaustion and disruption of recovery time following the meltdown.
If an autistic person is having a meltdown, think about the last thing they communicated was irritating them or the last thing they communicated they needed, and either eliminate the irritant from their environment or get them the thing they needed. There is literally nothing else that will provide the safety to recover. If autistic people are asking for impossible things to get their needs met, society's job is to make those things possible and/or help the person develop a wider toolbox for meeting that need in more practical ways, and the best thing to do to prevent/quickly end meltdowns is to acknowldege that the person's needs are real and a way to meet them needs to be found and will be as quickly as possible.
A tantrum is a strategy to get what someone wants, and if tantruming doesn't work, any autistic pattern-matcher will quickly stop having tantrums.
A meltdown is a trauma response established by unmet needs or the abuse of inappropriate expectations; they can be prevented by healing and environmental management including appropriate supports and appropriate expectations. Where environment and expectations cannot be rearranged to prevent meltdowns, the safety of having a plan for management of the meltdown and recovery is sometimes enough to prevent a meltdown.
And all of the above goes for shutdowns too.
Excellent discussion Quinn!
I've had a few meltdowns over the years but they're very mild compared to the typical stereotype. Shutdowns are far more common.
The flood analogy is spot on.
Thank you! 💜
I've never heard it this way before, but this is a perfect example to describe the intensity of the events that lead to the stress. I love your channel! I was finally diagnosed officially with AuDHD this month. I'm 69 and finally have the answers I needed to explain my whole life experience. I'm one of those who has to have an official explanation, but I totally understand and accept all who self diagnose or are just curious. I was tired of being misunderstood and told I was just "being ..." whatever. Now I have a shield and can ask for accommodations. Thank you so much for your channel and your awesome videos! My key phrase now days it "Let's Talk, Let's Listen."
This is an excellent video. At 54, I tend not to meltdown, but I do still shutdown. Which to the outside world probably looks like some form of catatonic state. For me, increased incidences of shutdowns are also a good indicator of a potential burnout. Luckily these do not happen too often. Thanks again.
You’re back ❤
I was worried about you.
Thank you so much for this video, Quinn. It came at exactly the right time for me. I am more of a "shutdown" autist, and until now I did not believe that the few meltdowns I've had actually "counted" as meltdowns because I was "just" getting upset and crying. Recently, however, circumstances beyond my control pushed me into my first full-on meltdown where I ended up in a state where I went completely non-verbal and did little other than scream incoherently. Because nothing like this has ever happened in my 37 years, I was very frightened of the experience. I'd like to write to you about it. Perhaps it will assist you in your studies to see how a list of factors can lead a shutdown autist into a meltdown? It seems I have a rather deep "tub" and maybe it takes longer to fill, but meltdowns can happen to me
Wonderful to see you back with such a great video
Sure we all want to be happy but sometimes a person can be so unhappy for so long that happy feels wrong and uncomfortable on the rare occasions it happens. Then there's being use to narcissistic people in our lives going out of their way to bring you down when you were happy as a child so have learnt to avoid feeling it as to remove the chance of only ending up crushed.
This REALLY helped with my imposter syndrome. You never hear about how meltdowns aren't as common as described. Thank you.
61 next month. I had a massive meltdown with my therapist last week. Most of the support she has worked to gather, have let me and her down (very poor support here in Cornwall), putting lots of pressure on me. To cope, I’ve been drinking, and because I’m overwhelmed, I’ve been isolating for that last 2 and a half months, cutting all communication to those around me (who are far too busy with their lives…it’s ok, I do understand)…it all got too much and had the meltdown. I’m just worried how others view meltdowns, think I’m selfish, childish, self-centred, drama queen, being judged etc etc…all this just adds even more pressure and stress onto me….so very frustrating. Thank you for this upload Quinn, and also to the commenters, you all help me so much 👍
By way of validation and support (not quick fixes) please allow me to say that autism continues to be massively misunderstood by medical and behavioral health professionals, so their advice, often appropriate for neurotypical patients/clients (the majority) is not adequate for autistic people. It sounds like your well-intentioned therapist is not up to the task of supporting you. If you are diagnosed as autistic, I'd suggest seeking ways to inform and educate those closest to you about your realistic "differences" and challenges, as well as strengths. As for the uninformed neurotypical "others," perhaps mask as necessary to function in neurotypical society but establish plenty of time to be your autistic self alone or with an autistic friend if possible. Please don't despair and also seek out the helpful members of the autistic community here on RUclips and other social platforms, to feel less isolated. Peace.
8 hours after posting, YT showed me this video on a random page refresh of my home page... Subscribed. Thank you Quinn.
Fwiw, one of my relaxations (when I could afford it) is meditating in a deprivation tank. Except for the tinnitus, it is glorious! :D
I've been wondering lately if you were ok, glad to see you back with a new video! 🥳🎉
So happy to see you back! This one was very thought-provoking. I'm glad to hear that you are beginning to manage again after your loss. Those early days of life adjustment and grief are difficult to deal with, but I will continue to keep you in my thoughts as I know the process takes a long time. It's good to know that you still intend to move ahead with your plans and feel able to continue making great content.
So I’m only my first year into the discovery phase and I’ve come to recognise that I do in fact have meltdowns. But it looks nothing like what I’ve seen on tv. Sometimes I’ll get really upset about something to the point I can’t stop, and it gets so intense I find myself either screaming out loud or curling into a ball pulling my hair. Other times it will seem like I’ve got everything under control until one small thing goes wrong and the guilt sets in, and my brain gets stuck, everything in my surroundings gets louder, and every part of me wants to curl into a ball. I come out of every meltdown feeling sadness and it takes days for my emotions to settle down.
The meltdowns where I’ve felt really angry, my husband’s helped me regulate my emotions by giving me a firm hug. This works for me cuz pressure is a form of stimming that works for me personally.
I will warn everyone to not hug or restrain an autistic individual unless they’ve told you that you can do this to help them.
Recently my husband recommended I use my AirPods when we were in a busy cafeteria. It didn’t remove the sound entirely but it lowered the volume a little which helped me feel less overwhelmed.
My meltdowns have always been more noticeable than my social deficits. "Panic attacks" got a lot of attention. My social issues were considered by my family only slight "eccentricities". Although, at school I was considered downright annoying. LOL
Quinn, I just wanted to thank you from the bottom of my heart and soul for your fantastic insight. Even this video has taught me so very much more about myself, I simply can’t express how much your help means.
I’m going to look up your Patreon, I didn’t realise you had one.
There’s so many things I want to say, add and suggest but seriously can’t order my thoughts just now! My mind is like a pinball machine!
Many thanks again. 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Thank you for this video, I now have a better tool to figure things out for myself. Thank you!
So informative, thank you.
I was diagnosed in 2016, but I basically just raw dogged the whole thing. I just continued acting the way I had already been acting. Since 2022 I've been working on it, and I've gone from melting down multiple times a week to melting down maybe once every few months or so at most.
Even after watching this video, I'm still not sure if I've ever had an autistic meltdown (vs. an "ordinary" meltdown). Surely allistic people can get overwhelmed to the point that they have meltdowns, too?
I'm more confident that I've had the occasional autistic shutdown. For me, the "straw that broke the camel's back" seem to be sensory (mostly sound and light, though noxious smells can sometimes do it, too), and what I would call "time pressure." Time pressure is when it feels like I don't have time to get necessary things done. It's only within the last year or two that I've come to realize that it's really more about the number of unresolved things on my internal "to do" list, even if there isn't immediate urgency to get them done. I think that worry that I'll forget something important (kind of like the nightmare about forgetting one of your classes, and never showing up for it) is a big part of it.
Similar to your bathtub analogy, I think of having a reservoir for those stressors. I can shove a limited amount of them into the reservoir before it becomes full, and my ability to cope degrades rapidly. As the reservoir gets fuller, I get more anxious to find a time/place/way to empty that reservoir. The stressors are caustic, so if they stay in the reservoir too long, the reservoir starts to get damaged and unable to hold anything more (or even just what it was already holding).
As it starts to get full, I start refusing things more -- even things that shouldn't add to the stress, or might normally be enjoyable. This makes me wonder if the "flood" is related to Pathological Demand Avoidance (that PDA might be a symptom of someone whose bathtub or reservoir is nearly full).
Fantastic video thank you. So much great information 🤩
IM HERE 32 SECONDS AFTER UPLOAD LETS GOOOO AUTISTIC FRIENDS❤❤❤❤
Thank you for this very informative video. "The flood" from an overflowing bathtub describes the experience so accurately for me. I am one of the autistic people who has always experienced meltdowns and shutdowns. They still occur more often than I would wish and I am coming to accept that they most likely will be inevitable for me. A closed off road on my way to work can trigger a meltdown...
Happy to see you back Quinn. Thanks for your videos. 😊
Looking back at my childhood I can see how I was removed from most stressors because I was introverted enough to be happy when I wasn't in the middle of things outside if the house. At home things were pretty chill also. I can recognize that I had several Shutdowns as I grew up but that was it. Several years into marriage and the stressors of a typical adult life I had more and more Shutdowns but was able to keep them mostly to myself. I have had a half dozen explosive Meltdowns over the past decade though that led me to see that there was more to my neurodiversity than ADHD. I am 51, was diagnosed with ADHD (trying to figure out why life and relationships were getting harder) just a few years ago. But after reading about Autism and viewing Navy videos and taking all the online tests I can find I am confident enough to self-identify as autistic. I wonder how common it is to mask the crap out of life to the point that you don't ever really have a Meltdown until much later in life. Anyone else experience this?
glad you're back. grateful for the insightful & helpful video. i really dug the flood metaphor and the fight/flight tie-in. that actually goes a long way toward answering one of my burning questions. keep on keeping on.
Quinn this is brilliant. Thank you!! The triad simplifies a lot. I’ve been trying to explain what this is like and what tips me over to my husband and that it isn’t always going to be as extreme- I just need to get the hang of it. I do get overwhelmed by people’s emotions- even if they aren’t making a point of their mood I can be so affected I can’t function. The triad explains that really well. Thank you!
Still thinking about the possible categories for skills and ... unsurprisingly, it's really very tricky. 😅 Where I'm at right now (and I'm sure I've missed a whole bunch of stuff and then there's the possible overlapping, as well), I would think five main categories, each with some sub-categories (which can all be divided into more concrete skills):
- COGNITIVE: Abstract thinking (theoretical, mathematical) * Critical thinking * Creative/innovative * Analytical/problem-solving * Adaptive/coping
- EXECUTIVE: Impulse control * Working memory * Planning & prioritizing * Task initiation * Time management * Focus/attention
- MOTOR: Gross * Fine
- INTERPERSONAL: Verbal (understanding and using) * Non-verbal (understanding and using) * Working together (conflict resolution, patience, etc.) * Empathy * Reciprocity
- PERSONAL: Self-care (food, drink, hygiene, sleep) * Self-monitoring (understanding own body, emotions, behaviours) * Self-regulation
One of the problems is that a lot of these things have an effect on others on the list (but if you made it into a flow chart sort of thing, it would be extremely elaborate and complex). And how you would 'rate' the skills is definitely another tricky question. I guess the question you *could* ask is 'Can I get by in today's society (wherever you live) when this particular skill is at the current level?' 'Can I give what is required of me (by society) to live?', so to speak. 'Thriving' would be another matter altogether ... And an actually *objective* means of measuring levels? No idea.
Sorry this is so long! Just thinking out loud. 🤔
I recently posted a video of myself in mid-meltdown on the verge of shutdown... sharing this was difficult because I know most people won't understand. My meltdowns are rarely aggressive and often internalized and almost always preceed a complete shut down and withdrawal. It's a "functional freeze" state that can last for days, sometimes weeks. Thank you for sharing this and creating more awareness around the individual differences we experience. ❤
Thank you for this excellent video (as always). I am so sorry for your loss. 😢 May you and your loved ones continue to find peace during this difficult time.
Great! Experience is the greatest teacher. I still have meltdowns, but I struggle to have shutdowns instead. My meltdowns are explosive for a brief moment. As a child I would throw or damage anything in my hand or reach, shout, shiver, cry, then go silent. It's over as soon as it started. My adult shutdowns are just that, isolation, sometimes escape to nature if possible. It's like a reboot.
I woke up today from having a meltdown in my dream leading to a shut down in real life. They are not fun. Good timing on your part for me, thanks.
Two of the ways I have instant meltdowns is (1.) garlic, and (2.) other person raising their voice too loud. The meltdown comes instantly in response to these things, and can happen even without an overload building beforehand. My meltdown is totally involuntary and there's nothing I can do to control it once it is triggered by either of those two things. Of course, there are other things besides those two that cause me meltdowns. But, those two do not require any overwhelm building up in advance.
Someone was talking elsewhere about a Window of Tolerance and how fragile it is and it really resonated with me as it's how I feel, most days...
The flood... Wow.
I found your channel recently so this is the first vid I'm watching as it comes out of yours. It feels like you've given me a gift of understanding from this video.
I nearly had a meltdown 8 months ago. I was 29, and I was in a loud and hot restaurant that I’ve never been to before, and never been to that style of restaurant before. It was a Japanese BBQ restaurant, and the BBQ pit is in the middle of the table.
The noise, the heat of the fire, and just knowing how close the fire was, was debilitating for me. I had to leave the restaurant and wait for everyone else to finish.
If I was 10 years younger, I suspect that my parents would have insisted on me staying, and I have no doubt that I would have had a full meltdown. Instead, I experienced an anxiety attack because I was able to leave.
Wow, Quinn! That is the best explanation of the experience of Autistic meltdowns and shut-downs. The Autistic flood is a great way to describe the experience of overload coming from every direction. Thanks Quinn. I hope you are doing ok. 🌼
Thank you for eloquently describing by day to day emotional turmoil so well with the bath/flood explanation. As someone who hurts themself during meltdowns: the work I have had (alone because I can’t afford therapy) put in to avoid them has left me completely isolated and afraid to deal with any emotion, because I know the flood that will come when I let that dam break will consume me and I’m not sure I’ll survive it.
Meltdown doesn't even hit the top 10 for me. Executive dysfunction is probably my #1 most frustrating.
As an adult I’ve had one minor episode of meltdown where I very nearly eloped, but managed to just hide in my car vs sprinting down the street. I get shutdowns at least a couple times a week, usually “just” going nonspeaking for a bit. It is a scary experience, especially as a parent and spouse who needs to be able to communicate. I can usually mime or type my needs if the shutdown isn’t too bad, but sometimes I just give my wife this dead look and she gets it.
Thank you for being here!
❤
I really appreciate the editing you did on this video
Goodafternoon Quin, thanks for the info
And so well brought
I didn't realise I experienced meltdowns. I think I may have normailsed aspects that I present. A relative explained their young child's 'meltdowns' almost exactly as I have had them. Shut-downs can happen anywhere, but 'meltdowns' is usually only in private. As a child, I presented them to my parents, who had no background to help me apart from the GP's word was their authority. Unrecognised they continued and I must've learnt to conceal them. I still experience them but on a lesser frequency. I have quite recently identified that in private I have adopted cursing at relatively innocuous things/events in a forceful tone. I curse and continue whatever I was doing unburdened. I have made the connection of this with the distance between my 'meltdowns' regularity being wider apart. The onset of a 'meltdown' is briefly preceded by the feeling my forehead is being peeled back, my head burns with unnerving light headedness. This is my warning its about to occur. What succeeds will be from a variety of things some semi-conscious and some not conscious at all. I did have a partner whose manner towards me was overwhelming. That may also indicate why the frequency has reduced.
Yay Quinn is back!!!
How you doing?
thanks, feeling seen (:
Now I'm wondering if things I thought were something else are actually a shutdown. I get those.
I am self-identified since the end of 2022 now, and will be 40 in 2 years. I've reflected on everything regarding me and my life at length, even formulating a self-anamnesis that grew to be 80+ pages long. I had trouble understanding, defining and identifying what meltdowns meant and mean for me, how they may have manifested for me.
I could make out a couple of instances in my childhood and youth were I very clearly had - what I know think were - meltdowns, which is just a short term for my being a hyperventilating, hysterically sobbing mess that couldn't be calmed down or reasoned with, or was in any way able to connect or interact with the outside world while being in that state.
What I learned throughout my looking back on my life, is that I had shutdowns way more often than I had meltdowns, and this holds true to this day, although I haven't experienced any of these states really in the past few years, or at least not as intense as during my childhood and youth.
For the longest time I misunderstood both of these extreme states as panic attacks or states of intense dissociation / depersonalization / derealization, which are words or vocabulary that were given to me as explanations by psychologists throughout several therapies I've attempted. During these I was (I think now, in part falsely) diagnosed with depression / dysthymia, social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, borderline personality disorder and post-traumatic stress disorder. Realizing that all of this ties back to and can be explained by my being autistic was an eye-opener, to say the least.
Thanks to your content I was able to add another vocabulary item to my personal dictionary, so to speak: autistic flood. That term I understood immediately, your explanation makes a lot of sense to me and thus I can very much say that I am very familiar with this concept or rather my experience with it as well, and this state and everything that comes with it I experience much more often - but am often and fortunately able to mitigate it to some extent or prolong the tsunami-like wave of this flood washing over me and taking me with it, also and especially since I've learned that I am (or rather might) be autistic and been able to learn a lot about not only myself, but also about the experiences of others and what helped them in various areas of (daily) life.
Thanks for your content and for your way of wording and explaining things. Your work deserves much more attention and support than it is receiving.
Welcome back Quinn and thanks for another informative video! I personally can experience severe meltdowns (mostly internalized shutdowns) that can leave me almost catatonic for days. I am not in the slighest embaressed by them though, when they happen im far too distressed to worry about what people think of me and afterwards im too numb to really care. However I have met some autistic people who dont seem to experience meltdowns at all. It really does reinforce that each of us is uniquely different, even though we can share many similarities.
Sorry for your loss. Glad you are back!
Meltdowns have been few and far between but it's been decades now, shutdowns have now been the norm for so many years.
I just want to say thank you for this video, the timing couldn't have been more perfect.
I'm 45 and just discovered I may be autistic. I have my official assessment in 2 days and it has been weighing on me heavily. Last night everything came to a head and I had a major meltdown, terrifying my wife and dogs. After it happened I fled the house in embarrassment, drove for an hour trying to escape myself, eventually finding myself down an extremely remote logging road. Too ashamed to return, I slept half the night in my vehicle.
Today I've been feeling hopeless and helpless. You have given me signs to watch for and the tools to help. Thank you and my condolences.
Great to see you back Quinn! Brilliant video, as always 💛
At the beginning of my journey, I truly believed that I had never experienced a "meltdown." It took years of research, hearing other neurodivergance perspectives before I realized that I had, and much more often than I realized. Some of my earliest memories are of being told that I am overreacting, and in all of the instances of meltdowns as I grew up, I was literally fighting myself, which quickly turned me to shutdown instead. This fighting and trying to stay in control of my words or actions during these states has made them extra exhausting. Holding myself so tight that I don't punch the walls, beat my head against something hard, or simply release blood curdling screams for 5-10 minutes could put me to sleep for 12 hours or simply shut down my entire emotional system for a day or so. I didn't recognize these meltdowns because they were rarely dramatic or disruptive to anyone outside myself, and the results of such events were often criticized, and I was made to feel guilty. No one seemed to understand how difficult any kind of control was, which left me to believe I was just a bad person and I could control those things if I really wanted to. Due to recent life events and extreme burnout, I have experienced meltdowns more often than I have before in my adult years. I have nearly lost the ability to have the control I could have exerted as a younger adult. Thankfully, I have a better understanding of what is happening, and so does my support system. I can allow it to play out whilst removing myself from environments that are helping the overload. It is still frustrating to have times when I feel little to no control over myself, but knowing what is happening, having support, and maybe even understanding what has triggered it, has made them somewhat less detrimental to my mental health.
I have meltdowns several times a week, they are involuntary. I'm 47, autistic, bipolar. People keep overwhelming me. The neighborhood is so noisy. The paperwork and phone calls is just too much. I never want meltdowns, they hurt, physically. The pain of meltdowns is worse than the embarrassment. I know I would not have meltdowns if this world didnt force too much into my life.
I been asked a few times, what can they do when I have a meltdown. I tell them, do nothing. Do nothing. Let it drain out.
Best way to deal with my meltdowns is to prevent them. I cant control other people. Other people trigger my meltdowns.
recently diagnosed here. This video is incredibly valuable, thanks.
My floods aren't very aggressive, It's mostly just a f..k off event. And after that I need a lot of time to recover, while the f..k off event gets stuck in my head until I can let it go. It can last over a week before I'm back to my unstable self.
I would love to hear about challenging social experiences and acceptance of being different. I am baffled by social overwhelm and low social battery...and never knowing if I will be more capable like a social butterfly with less "errors" OR less capable and show up more "unique" or looking like a wall flower- who actually wants to blow away out the door or into a closet! And this can be in the same social setting, just a different day!
Quinn & Family ✨
Sorry for your loss.
Take Care
✨🫂🫂🫂✨
💫✨🌟❤️🌟✨💫
Thanks Quinn. I've never had a meltdown, but I feel what you mean by stressevent and nearing a tipping point.
thank you! your videos are always helping me feel understood. ive described the spoken of experiences on my own with very similar vocabulary all the time and its like rewatching a movie youve seen countless times and know the plot already.
tho its stressing to having examples of such experiences flash before my inner eye, but thats not your fault, and it also kinda helps to assign them in my mental archive.
i find the term "stress events" very fitting, tho i dont connect "meltdown" with a negative connotation myself. actually i find it pretty fitting for the "major" stress events, cause it actually feels like all my emotions are melting into a toxic alloy.
the worst feelings i associate with stress events is not embarrassment in front of others, but rather shame due to my loss of self-control, shock of what i did or can do and simply being overwhelmed with everything. thats for the "meltdowns".
in regards to shutdowns, it simply that i felt powerless and hopeless, unable to manage the (often social) situation
Thank you. Your content is invaluable.
Thank you so much Quinn for all your hard work; so happy to have you back ❤
For me, finding myself in a 'meltdown' has most often been triggered by circumstances. I think it may be possible to not encounter these environmental circumstances for long periods. So yes it is possible for autistic people to not experience meltdowns. I've had them, they are episodes of "re-enforcing my boundaries" ...that may be a tad dramatic. Mostly I walk away, but sometimes I am unable to. Boundaries are a work in progress for everyone.
While meltdowns are embarrassing they don't happen that often may be few times a year. The social difficulties are by far the hardest part. Small talk and knowing you are missing 93% of the conversation. Misunderstandings and feeling like you are tying to explain topic to brick walls. People assuming you are not engaged when you are and when you are not then assuming you are. Getting trouble for not picking up on non verbal social cues. That's the hardest part for me. That and autistic burn out though I would not know about autistic burn out till I was much older.
It's good to see you again, Quinn. Take care and thank you.
I would love:
1: Advice on how to handle doctors and nurses. I have a very high tolerans of pain, and don't really show emotions such as pain. So I always get the : No, you are lying, bc I can tell you are not in pain.
So I've fainted from the pain of a kidney stone, had to do A Lot of emergency surgeries. It's given me a mountain of ptsd, and now I just try to treat everything with Dr. Google, bc that feels so much safer.
2. Our reaction to medicines, and how (why) it can differ so much from the nt. I got very ill, and had to undergo 20+ surgeries. Not once was I given effective pain relief. Eight months at the hospital, and not one day or night when I didn't have to fight 120% to just get some relief from that abyss of pain. Swedish doctors and nurses are highly incompetent in this matter (as my story proves). What can be done? Is there any research done? Does anyone else have that problem?
Well, thank you so much for all your hard work. Much ❤ from 🇸🇪
I made a video about autistic pain responses a couple of years ago. Let me know what you'd like me to elaborate on or expand & I'll take it on board for future content.
ruclips.net/video/l8z84irE57E/видео.html
For the longest time, I didn't even realize I was having meltdowns and shutdowns. I thought they were PTSD flashbacks (which I also have). But none of the trauma therapy or tools for those helped. It was only once I realized I was autistic that I learned they were meltdowns. They sometimes followed actual flashbacks, which added to the confusion. I was driving myself crazy trying to figure out what unaddressed trauma I needed to work on so I would stop getting triggered into them. This made me feel like a failure at therapy. Once I learned about meltdowns and taking the steps to prevent and address them, they got less frequent and severe. They still happen more than I'd like, but at least now I know. For me, flashbacks always come with a very strong story line that is tied to the past and that I will get stuck on believing is happening now. Meltdowns have no story, just wanting everything to stop.
They are not the worst part of autism for me though. The social difficulties and stigma are.
I unfortunately started to meltdown again after my shutdowns weren't actually protecting me from stressors. This was not a choice, it just started happening and I had no idea what was going on. I now have come to realise what my triggers are: disrespect, arrogance and belittlement. And these don't need to be directed at me for it to happen. I am literally one of the most tranquil guys you could ever hope to meet, which is why these events have gotten me into so much trouble. I can no longer work because of it for the past five years forcing me to figure it out for myself. I now in the midst of the struggle to get my formal diagnosis so I can get the support I need to return to being a member of society. I kinda been cast adrift. And I am not the only person this has happened to.