I find the term pretty much useless as a "genre" definition, grouping black metal sub-genres along the lines of lyrics is much like grouping animals along the lines of which of them have wings, you'll end up with a bunch of things that are not really related. In "NSBM" you find many and very diverse sounds and approaches to the genre, from the early DSBM-ish Peste Noire, to their more recent electro-rapping-black, there's Nokturnal Mortum with slavic folk Black, there's a lot of War/Bestial Black bands, Many Orthodox Black Metal Groups and so on. Sure it may be a good note to drop when recomending a band like: Take care, they do this kind of shit. On listening to it, I see nothing wrong directly as long a the listener has their own, well stablished and argumented position. There's a lot of ways to access this music with ideas without supporting the artist nor their ideals, that's even more points to piracy.
@@darkoz1380 The same thing can be said for RABM, too! Folk/bluegrass-inspired black metal like Panopticon, more violin-led blackened punk like Dawn Ray'd, spacey atmospheric black metal like Spectral Lore and so on and so forth...
I looked at people who are into NSBM and always kinda thought it just has to mean "No Sex Before Marriage", but thank you Farvann for clearing up this one for me!
I fully understand and respect the “separate the art from the artist” idea. I just personally find it difficult to ignore the artist’s actions while listening to their work.
Totally, " I don't hate Nazi's I feel bad for them" that's a good one and true, I have friends who don't t like sum minorities, I give them my opinion on topics but they have there mind set, and it's prob easier to blame other ppl than look in the mirror, To bad ppl couldn't open there eyes and just hate corruption and the police, There is more stuff to hate but ,farvann is right hate is like negative energy, My two cents,
@@UlfhedinnNorsk its actually the death rune and not the peace symbol. And yes, all these hippies with their chains and hoodies etc with that rune thinking it stands for peace, its actually the opposite.
Very good perspectives on the issue, something I've faced countless times during my career as well. A lot of the hysteria about "NSBM", whatever that means, is also a reflection of the societies (especially in the western world) we live in. Black Metal in it's purest essence never changed, but those on the fringes of it look for opponents harder than ever. (Yes, I wrote song about this and that and I used this and that word, check the context. Yes, I work with all kinds of people.)
woa is that really werwolf lurking farvann? the internet is a strange place. you may not beleive in any ideology but 'darkness', or whatever but an observer wouldn't know that from the company you keep. im trying to keep it civil as farvann requested but it also seems like you only like to distance yourself from NSBM when it affects your income, at all other times you seem fine with it.
@@deaconlasagna8570 I'm not lurking, I am checking internet content regularily. You don't know the company I keep. If I would want to make MORE money, I would not distance myself from NSBM as controversy equals big bucks, but I would prefer the truth. Guilt by association or cherrypicking naughty words is not truth, it's childish. That is why I am addressing this now as it's getting out of hand.
@@Werwolfou’re literally in a dozen nsbm bands that wear there nazism on their sleeve, sure SM’s music is good & has distanced itself from the early goosestepping material but Gestappo 666’s stuff is well on the nose, then there’s the label.... pretty disappointing that Farvann is trying to pretend like it’s ‘just patriotism man’.
@@kearingoodwin4856 you're literally lying and literally twisting the issue into something that has nothing to do with me. Any "nsbm" labels have always been made by third parties, and I never distanced myself from anything, I just addressed these blatant lies such as yours. If you can't take it as anything else but bullshit like "ns", it's not my fault. Lite fvkking rally.
I'm so happy to know a black metal guy who can perfectly divide comic part and more serious part, a guy that can make you laugh but that can make you also take serious arguments on important topic, just like this. Totally agree with your point of view btw, and I think it should be the main point of view because it's the most rational I've heard about it. In a world where there are lots of misunderstandings , especially in black metal, it's always good to see people like you, and I would say like your community too. :)
It's great to see that you understand how simplifying this topic will only make things worse. Defining yourself with the things you hate is a miserable existence, and too many people in metal miss that point.
Here in the Netherlands, NSBM = Black Metal Subgenre which is defined entirely by its Lyrical Theme: The cosmic horrors of the Dutch Railway system. Best known examples of the subgenre are projects like "WiSSelstoring" and "Vertraging 666" and titles such as the blasphemous "Intercity Toilet Holocaust" .
As a Brazilian who has been to the Netherlands and had to take trains to go into other towns this is very accurate 😂😂😂 For some reason, NS trains are often criticized by the dutch for being too late or disfunctioning
"Hate is for the simple minded" I don't know if you're still looking at comments for this video, but that really struck a chord with me. I'm not really in to black metal. I'm a huge traditional and power metal fan. But I can vouch for the fact that it is so easy to give in to bitterness, even if it isn't in the form of prejudice. I've been in places where I had to get it through my head that hating the world is going to do nothing to fix any of it, and everything to make me a meaner person.
National Sozialismus is not about hatred, read Mein Kampf than write comments about the topic, or if you are not familiar with books than watch a movie or two about the Reich, not Holywood bullshit but real documentary. Nonetheless i have nothing but honour and pride for my country, no hate towards anyone that dont deserve one. Hate, if existing, is only aimed towards those who are against my country and those who have no human moral to live upon.
Generally a very good objective take on a topic a discussion is almost always impossible. But I think you kinda left out one part that does play a role in defining NSBM, which is the visuals. There are certain bands that don't really have obvious racist lyrics but do display NS-swastikas and other NS symbols/ gestures in their releases and/or on stage, which to me makes them NSBM as well.
Man, I actually really like this take. It’s not just “thing 1 good” and “thing 2 bad”, there’s nuance to it which I think mirrors reality better than pretending things are easily seen as black/white. I couldn’t agree more strongly with the “I like the art, but I don’t need to like the artist or their views” sentiment, especially in these times when labels are bandied about too frequently to believe at face value anymore (I mean, getting called a n*zi for posting German Black Metal in a community post is a solid example). It’s also refreshing to hear the (completely reasonable) take of forming opinions on a case-by-case basis instead of an ideology. I’m surprised and kind of disappointed that there’s so much vitriol for people who don’t just ‘pick a side’ and consume the pre-packaged thoughts and opinions that get included when you join one of the clubs. Of course music has the right to be political, but I think it should also have the right to be apolitical without that being immediately dismissed. If someone wants to staple their politics to someone else’s art that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to agree, and if you don’t then you’re a bad person. Sometimes it feels like everything we say is bound to be interpreted in bad faith by someone, and it’s just up to us to either shut up completely or weather whatever projected shit gets flung our way. Tl;dr: The world isn’t simple, art can be separated from the artist, and don’t be an asshole.
For me from my view point I can't separate Artist from Art if the Artist has done something I've seen as horrible or evil even like if someone has Nazi views or are part of any kind of hate group no matter who the group is, or if someone is a murderer, Cannibal, Rapist, or Pedo, those kinds of people I'd like to see thrown in Solitary Confinement for life, and wouldn't support their Art. But I know some people can separate Artist from Art and that's completely fine, our brains are all wired differently we've all experienced different things and have our different views on things and I'm not going to judge someone because they enjoy a band whose lyrics I don't agree with. So long as you aren't hurting anyone else then I don't care what you do.
@@Werewolf914 I'm just thankful that there aren't a large variety of bands that fit in the genre of nsbm, it's very niche and I haven't really heard many to be honest. I mean you have so many other bands to choose from that you can't possibly be missing out on anything anyway. Then again they don't always use Nazi swastikas or have overtly sounding Nazi names so it could be easy to miss of you don't pay attention to those things. You have Ad hominem for instance and they only use the iron cross so you might not know right away that they are nsbm. You can also get thrown by the many Norse pagan bands since it's a philosophy that's been adopted by many Nazis, thankfully most are just about the mythology of it. So long as you aren't openly endorsing them or their message it's pretty forgivable, especially if you aren't aware of it.
I absolutely agree with you on that one, 'hate is for the simple minded', it appears everywhere and it never leads to something good... A brave thing to discuss such a topic, but you did so in a mature, sensible and human way and I really respect that. Great video!
Kind of like how modern Judaism is based on a set of writings that insist that all Jews should be racist and hateful toward all non-Jews. Pointing that out would just be simple minded and everyone should just magically all get along because of the United Nations or something.
I'm really glad that there are still people willing to discuss this topic without the fear of being cancelled or whatever, just because they're "giving coverage/visibility to hateful ideas". These ideas and concepts are not going to go anywhere simply by trying to shut them down - clearly, these ideologies have somewhat flourished despite numerous and continuous attempts to snuff them out. Ignoring them wont do any good, it only gives more fuel to certain individuals to continue bashing others and promoting all kinds of hate, conspiracy theories and whatnot. Trying to understand a phenomenon does not mean that you are promoting the thing in question. However, NSBM and the concept of evil worship and hate being so central to the development black metal admittedly complicates matters quite a lot. I think it is a fair argument to say that NSBM is just another form of evil worship. That being said, _legitimately_ rooting for these ideologies via ones music is... let's say, troubling. Being all edgy in every way imaginable and venting ones frustrations and pent up anger via music can be cathartic. Or very harmful. We are very flawed beings in that - there's no way in telling how someone receives and interprets a downpour of hatred clad in music or other forms of art. An open dialogue is needed to keep things reasonable. We cannot achieve an open dialogue by a complete censorship of unwanted opinions/ideas. Black metal has rebelled against the core values of mainstream society for a very good reason, and we need to be able to discuss the reasons behind this rebelling act for it to bear any fruit. Regarding the concept of misanthropy - do I hate people? Yes. Do I think that some aspects of humanity are lovable? Abso-fucking-lutely. I think that people should be able to hold conflicting views on the world while regarding each of them as equally "true", if that's a definition that can be applied here. There is no "good" nor "bad" without someone there to experience these conceptualizations. Personally I found my love for humanity through hating it. Letting yourself be blinded by your hate is a different matter entirely. Is being a misanthrope a prerequisite for being a black metal head? Ehh.... no. But it sure seems to be a common theme in the scene, I'll give you that. Does loving your country or appreciating its tumultuous history or being prone to somewhat nationalistic ideas automatically equal national socialism? Fuck no. You can appreciate the core values of your nation (and what they represent to you) and the struggles your people have gone through without excluding every other nationality or "race" as being somehow inferior. The phenomenology of human life in this world of ours is NOT either or, black or white. There's a multitude of shades of gray (over 50 of them, in fact) in this matter. Should bands like Burzum or others that have members with nazi sympathies automatically be considered NSBM? No, that's just silly. Sometimes people with troubling world views come up with amazing things/ideas, and you can enjoy these amazing things as they are. Whether or not you wish to boycott such acts because of your personal values is up to you. Even listening to bands that are considered NSBM does not necessarily make you a nazi - hell, how could it? To me, at least, politics is a system of thought that is in many ways very similar to various religious doctrines: some fascinating ideas and concepts - but generally speaking, very poor execution. I absolutely despise most politicians and many (if not most) religious authorities. But that sure doesn't mean that there isn't anything worth contemplating about in their respective fields of expertise. _(Edit: Just to be clear, if you lack the time/interest/attention span/whatever to read a few paragraphs of someone else's (somewhat irrelevant) opinions on a given topic, feel free to stop reading and move along. I am not forcing you to read anything, and will continue to write at some length whenever and wherever I feel like it. There's no need for smart-ass remarks.)_
Well put. This in large part is what separates ALL forms of extreme metal from the rest of the world. It is for those who question & for those who think in order to understand & grow.
Wow Farvann, bei dem Titel habe ich schlimme Phrasendrescherei befürchtet aber du machst das verdammt gut und bringst die Sache auf den Punkt. Respekt von mir!
Got your point and it's really makes sense to me. Thanks for uploading this video. Unfortunately, I haven't seen good content like yours, recently here on RUclips. Please keep on posting! Cheers from Brazil.
nsbm is no more extreme than chrisitian fundamentalism. its just total conformity, herd mentality, weak Identity politics, and obeying authority lmao . why is there somehow this idea that ns shit is extreme because of ww2? is christianity extreme because they fought wars in the past too? Oh bro I am such a extreme person because i believe in jesus christ and i think atheists are evil!! ... what? ... do you have this same "extremist" attitude towards actually shocking shit like pedo black metal or something actually awful? you probably would boycot That shit in your "moral outrage" ... its such a joke... so dont pretend like you mean anthing when you say bm is so "extreme" and "transgression" because you would turn into screeching moralf@g when its about something you actually find abhorrent.. dont act like not liking nsbm is because "its too extreme!!!" lol no its just fking stupid Weak minded identity politics for sheep its Cringe
nsbm generally has really good riffs tbh, goatmoon, aktion t4, absurd, peste noire etc. i think not being able to enjoy music just because it has some barely coherent lyrics that you don't agree with is just dumb
True! I listen to is as well sometimes. Totally forgot to mention that in the video. But yeah, listening to it and actively supporting it are two different things. At least to me.
Great instrumentals for some bands. Nokturnal Mortum is the cream of the crop when it comes to amazing instrumentation in those kinds of bands (followed closely by Peste Noire). Of course, their lyrics can be absolutely horrible and I'd rather not translate their Ukrainian lyrics because...🤷♂Well, I don't want to know what they're saying; it's probably really f-ed up!
I like quite a bit of it (mainly the ones who have a strong Oi! & HC punk influence), but I could never see any of those bands play live or get down with the politics since I'm not White. The only NS bands I've seen live are Japanese RAC bands when I was stationed in Japan. They were probably in a state of shock and thinking "Is he a tourist who got lost on the way to the hip-hop gig? Does he know where he is?"
To me, in black metal lyrics are secondary. Vocals are a big part of what i love in black metal, but lyrics themselfes? not so much. So i like listening to NSBM, RABM or any other black metal. If i can feel the "magic" in the music then i love it. Regardless of what the vocalist is singing
Once people realize that no matter what you believe what matters is being rational and level headed, that is when a true conversation can happen. That is how we as humans should carry forward, people on social media talk and talk but no one communicates. This is a proper example of communication and it is beautiful from Farvann.
The problem I see is that many musicians who have NS tendencies make it impossible to separate art from artist. Burzum may not be by your definition NSBM, but not having lyrics, and the band essentially being one guy who has some pretty cut and dried opinions sort of makes it impossible to separate the two. I also find that many bands who are in their personal lives folks with NS tendencies have a way of having those ideas pop up in their lyrics. And there's a lot of bad faith defense when they try to claim they aren't NSBM. They also tend to get very pissy when it becomes clear that people aren't interested in buying their music anymore when they themselves have said pretty direct statements outside of their music, or when venues start cancelling their gigs. Tl;DR: You can think what you want and put that in your lyrics or not. Nobody is beholden to listen or not cancel your gig when you say racist things.
The true conversation was WW2 where the Nazis proposed an idea that they were superior to every other race, built a hyper-militaristic society, started 1 war and then lost.
You speaking of hatred and it being for the simpleminded really touched my heart. Hatred has always been what makes this world degenerate. Thanks Farvann ily🖤🖤🖤
the very most important thing you brought up here is the distinction between art and outright support of extremist hate ideology in lyrics, AND, educating people on the legitimate dangers of being swayed by the messages put forth. that is SO important. i feel a lot of people go into nsbm thinking "nah dude i'm just here for the riffs, hate the lyrics" which is a valid mindset. but i feel that that can unfortunately slowly be warped by desensitization. it's very possible, but only if you allow yourself, this is why some critical thinking is important! i hope more newcomers come to realize there's good and bad sides to everything, there really is nuance to many things, and debate like this is extremely healthy for the scene, rather than full stop black/white thinking and reacting. mix art, people, ideas, and things will never *not* be complex, and at times uncomfortable. "love conquers all" is indeed beyond cliche and cheesy but it will never not ring true.
I've seen other commentators (mainly lame ones trying to finesse the algorithm) label Behemoth as nsbm. So glad you've given a nuanced, yet simple breakdown
Yes, I just watched a discussion with 2 'reactors' (who are both fairly popular on RUclips I might add) and the conversation came around to discussing racism in metal, not specifically Black Metal but Metal in general, and they were talking shit about Nergal saying that because he is personal & good friends with Rob Darken/Graveland they say that because of this he is guilty of supporting Graveland's ideas & ideals. I personally don't think that's fair. I've never seen anything from Nergal or Behemoth even remotely being racist. It seems like a cheap shot. People who scream the loudest about NSBM and such usually come off as holier than thou and it always seems like the persecution of someone who may or may not support those views is more important than actually caring about some minority or group being targeted. Like a witch hunt mob mentality.
Hello Farvann, respect for emphasizing to focus on love and make good hints to avoid to focus one’s life around hate. What you are talking about is the reality both you and me and lots of others who experienced that. Question is somebody is strong enough to overcome hate, and realize love? When somebody is in a personal crisis, music can be a remedy, and listening music helps to overcome that. Also important to have a scepticism about the lyrics, do not follow anything or any ideology blindly. Metal helped us to learn to think, this was (one of)the lessons. Farvann, it would also worth a video to discuss what energies a music (for example black metal) can transmit or how we can utilize that, also what is the influence on the mood, on the mind, etc..
I fully agree with you farvann! And wanted to add about letting the hate devour you,i let it happen to me for many years and its taken me as many to unlearn to always feel hate,now i werent hating anyone or anything specifically but i hated everything snd still get those days so even if BM are a besutiful thing, its very very healthy to think for oneself and have some distance to the lyrical contexts aswell.
My first thought when I saw the title was "If dsbm stands for 'depressive sui-al black metal', then nsbm stands for 'not sui-al black metal' ". Even tough I was fan of the music for many years, I am still new to the community and didn't know about this sub-category. This video was very educational for me. Also I think we have to be more aware that not all German people are/were national socialists.
You are totally right with everything you said. I'm German too and it's right that especially many German BM bands are considered NSBM. There are certain bands with members playing in other groups which are labeled as NSBM. But playing in an NSBM band (f. e. as a side project) doesn't make the band I'm taking about NSBM. Your Video is suitable for not making hasty judges and prejudices concerning BM in general and especially certain bands. For examples I can't understand why concerts of bands like Mgla und Kalmankantaja had been cancelled in the near past. NSBM in fact is related to the lyrics and nothing else.
Good to see a video and your take on the topic. I also think there's two seperate issues here, actual NSBM that covers the topic and ideas in it's lyrics and bands whose lyrics are about something else entirely where (some of) the band members happen to be on the far right or are accused of that. It's like you said with Burzum, yeah Varg is right wing but I wouldn't consider Burzum NSBM. For actual NSBM (or just far right music in general, could be RAC or other genres - the lyrics are what actually count here) while I don't really care myself and will listen to whatever I like, I can understand people not wanting to support it because it goes against their own ideals especially if they themselves lean further to the left. In the other case where the music doesn't have anything to do with the theme I find it ridiculous how people can't separate the art from the artist sometimes. I wonder if they do it the other way around to, will they listen to shitty music because they like the political stance of the singer?
@@Aggrovious Mainstream music is mainstream because it's uncontroversial. It can be political but only in a way where the vast majority of people will predictably agree with it. I would argue mainstream music is like industrial mass produced beer that gets advertised on TV. Engineered to fit the taste of as many people as possible while losing all individual characteristics and avoiding anything that could spark controversy or disagreement, thus dull and boring but profitable.
@rhys williams I'm going to keep it 55, most of us use Spotify to listen to music. Therefore, we aren't really supporting Burzum, though some of his songs are great musically. I support a band by seeing them live and buying their merch or online. I am sad for Varg, because he could be a really cool dude if he didn't have such a twisted worldview. Regardless, I don't care about Varg and will continue to listen to Burzum...on Spotify.
This is the only channel that made NSBM make sense as a subgenre and not jump on the bandwagon of HATE THEM BECAUSE POTENTIAL NSBM!!! You actually broke down how easy it is to mix up songs about war/history and Nazism
Great video! I’m a Spanish woman that listens to Black Metal but I don’t get offended by these lyrics. I won’t go to their concerts but I can enjoy the music.
@@horrorvillainfan4342 And irish weren't considered white either, much less white than spaniards and have more controversy about their race surrounding them. Pointless to mention
My (ultra-condensed) take on the matter: find inspiration wherever you want / can because art (or cultural manifestation or expression) has room for everything. But art is one thing and life is another. If you fail to see the difference, that's only the beginning of the big trouble you're getting into. (Edit: One more detail: even if art has room for everything, that doesn't mean everything is good or everyone is going to like it. So, express yourself as you like, but you can be wrong / disliked, and that's part of the beauty of everything: the differences, variety, creativity...) So, If I've understood correctly, I agree with most of things here.
" But art is one thing and life is another." Generally, people who listen to extreme metal uses to be more intelligent (there was a study on that, I swear!). And I think this is key, our ability to use suspension of disbelief.
I disagree. Music reflects man's deepest desires and dreads. Music is MORE true than reality because reality is riddled with deceptions. Music as Schopenhauer puts it is the unfiltered expression of the will. It is not a mere appearance.
Excellent video! Yes. The part you spoke about being influenced by lyrics can cause young persons, and some adults, to live dangerously. Violent rap music, and material focused pop music are good examples. Metal is no exception. I certainly agree with you saying that being hateful can consume you and you lose part of who you are (summarized). I never research to see if bands I are NSBM. I just listen to the riffs mainly and try to pick up ideas for my writing. Good topic!
I appreciate your video, I've had my fair share of discussion about this topic with my metalhead friends. I have one disagreement and open up the discussion, even though I understand your point that NSBM is because of the lyrics I think that's a little bit naive because music is a business as well and it has a whole structure beyond one song with Nazi lyrics. One discussion we had was about going to a concert of a band that's being tied with NSBM even though their lyrics don't have theses themes but they are in fact signed by Northern Heritage, a label somehow polemic due to the artist they represent and it's founder because they also create more content (books, etc) where they spread this stupid ideology and that makes us wonder if buying their records or their tickets help the economy to keep this afloat and I don't want to give my money to help their economy
I know very little about Black Metal subgenres. After learning what DSBM is I kinda assumed that NSBM stands for Not Suicidal Black Metal. Boy was I wrong.
I agree with most points, probably apart from the last one. If we use the logic "if you're obsessed with hateful lyrics that tell you how you are the master race, it may change you", then 90% of all metal (especially black metal) is potentially dangerous, to say the least. I believe music can most certainly impact you, but the way and the extent to which it affects you depends on your mental stability and health. And personally I don't think hating Jews is much better than hating Christians or people as a whole, so I don't feel like NSBM is particularly problematic here. As for the rest of the points, I fully agree. Music shouldn't be about politics, it should be about bringing people together instead of yet again dividing them. By the way, which NSBM bands/songs would you recommend to me as a newbie in the genre (I know it's a lyrical theme and not a genre as such, just like unblack metal or RABM, but still)?
I would recommend you start with the Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum and their 2009 album The Voice of Steel for its very ambitious melting pot of folk and black metal. They are amazing instrumentally and are really creative and ambitious, especially on that album. Their most NS-leaning album lyrically is 1999's NeChrist.
I think you made a good video about it, because you're level-headed and smart about it. A good take indeed, but then again I know this sounds biased because I also think 99 % the same and that 1 % difference is that I'm not German, but Finnish. Cheers from another YoutTuber who have done videos about the very same topic.
Thank you for this well-worded delivery, it’s always a risk to talk about this topic and you took that risk. I think you did well to articulate your point and I found it very insightful. People will always continue to disagree in one way or another but that’s just the way it is.
Farvann, Thank you for explaining. I agree that the lyrics are what define NSBM. The music along is sounds in the air, while the words have power and meaning. I liked your warning of hate growing, too. I live in Germany, and, to be honest, NS is not even on the table. Thank you. Robert.
While the subgenre is undeniably defined by the lyrical themes, it's also undeniable that much of NSBM has its own riff style and its own type of song structures. Many of them sound more "upbeat" ore even positive in their own twisted respect, which can sometimes be uniquely appealing. While this obviously doesn't go for all NSBM, bands that incorporate this type of riffing and structuring are invariably NSBM. Anyway, thanks for having the fortitude to address this "forbidden" topic
It is pretty screwed that some of the worst lyrical themes in metal can be tied to some of the best riffs ever. I mean, look at Arghoslent, for example...
@Tungsten_Walls Just lyrics and song titles, man... they are veeeery racist towards black people. But their riffs are amazing! Hence why the only songs I come back to from those guys are two instrumental tracks with some great riffing in them.
@Tungsten_Walls I can see where you're coming from. I don't 100% agree with you, but I can see where you are coming from and I'm not going to bash you for coming to that conclusion.
Funny enough I think the misunderstanding of lyrics also helps with point number 4 in this video. I think there have been plenty of instances where songs about a country from a black metal song have been taken to support someone with those ideals already if that makes sense. I think it’s why black metal in particular tends to have these bands where death metal doesn’t (if there is a following of NSDM bands I’ve never seen or heard of it.) But I do think black metal tends to be a bit more political, maybe in a more esoteric sense than many realize. I mean if people didn’t at least politically care about their country, they wouldn’t feel as strongly compelled to write out their homes. Like how punk itself is an extremely political genre of music, so it would attract both extremes, even if the original people didn’t really intend for that to happen.
Singing about how much you love your country can bring things to a fine line, and that's pride. The belief that your country is superior to another is a massive problem and people see no problem with it.
I‘m torn between different views on that matter. While I don’t think that it’s necessarily a good idea to separate the artist and the art from each other (because I think especially in music it’s not that simple) I do think it is ok to listen to music where the lyrics don’t show explicit hate towards a specific group of people. I personally try to avoid listening to bands where it’s quite obvious that both art and artist share extremist thoughts. It’s not like there isn’t enough music out there to listen to. People should just remember that they are actively SUPPORTING artists with extremist thought when they buy their music. And behind every piece of music is a real person. So yes, separating isn’t really possible if you spend money on an Album or Merch. What annoys me tho is when artists try to hide their views when they are being accused of something. I‘m not saying that they are obliged to share their views as artist and I can understand if they don’t want to give any political statements. But if I as a listener want to make sure I’m not supporting people with actual Nazi ideologies when buying their music I think it’s proper to at least give a short, clear statement and not to beat about the bush. They don’t have to distance themselves from their viewpoints or justify anything. Giving a statement especially in a genre like BM is not a big deal really. And we all know that nothing good can come out of Nazism. I want to have a choice if I want to support a band financially or not. Don’t get me wrong, neither do I say right-wing thoughts make someone automatically evil nor do I condemn those people. What I’m against is true Nazism and extremist thoughts. Where hate and suiting the action to the word is just one small step away from each other. I personally also have the tendency to have more right-wing thoughts here and there but I’d never go as far as to spread hate, ostracize a certain group of people or detest someone because of his/her skin color, ethnicity, nationality or whatever. I simply just want to enjoy music and not think about wether the person behind it admires Hitler. Also: some bands or individual band members of some bands are being confronted with guilt by association and are having concerts being cancelled yet they are still not giving any clear statements but instead being all pissed about it. I can understand both sides tho. But why not just make it clear once and for all then? It’s also weird when people don’t care at all about Nazi music but when asked wether he would surround himself with real Nazis and he’s suddenly refusing because he wouldn’t want to then it makes no sense to me why enjoying their music seems to be ok. I wouldn’t want to sit in a room with 10 real Neo Nazis. I honestly don’t. So why would I give them my money? Anyway, good video and greetings from Germany :^)
I feel like once you really start dipping your toes in black metal in earnest, it becomes almost impossible to keep your collection totally "clean". Bands I know are totally 'safe' might get distributed by labels or mailorders that carry records or merch from bands that are explicit nazis. I feel like you have to do the best you can and go with what feels right to you. Everybody seems to have a threshold for how "sus" a band/label/distributor is and for some it has to be completely clean or they don't support it. I've somewhat settled on the approach that I am comfortable supporting an artist if they are not extremists (according to all the information I am able to find), and they don't have any close personal associations with any bands or individuals that are compromised in that way. Sometimes partnerships with questionable labels is unavoidable in the underground, but explicitly nazi labels are a hard "no." I despise nazis and I wouldn't want them to get a penny from me if I can help it.
It's not about piousness per se. I'm among the "can't separate the artist from the art" people cause I just want to listen to something that sounds good but also aligns with my values or that is made by people who have similar values at least. So, I understand why people go through those lengths to vet bands, even if it appears extreme or high-horse in nature. I just think there is too much judgement in either direction. Everyone engages with art differently. I won't judge people that listen to NSBM or call them nazis, but I don't want to be called a "snowflake" if I'm trying to check if a band is "sus" on Reddit. We don't need to get mad about it.
It's about the music. If you want to waste your time researching every single thing related to a band then waste your time. It's literally music; enjoy it!
@@Charles_Anthony It can be about the music for you. For others, it can be about the music AND the message and/or anything else. It CAN be time consuming, but oh well? People are entitled to their opinions but why are they reactive about others wanting to do that work to engage with art in their own way?
@@Lyth47: Because, it isn't just limited to that person's enjoyment. Most people who do the research will go around telling everyone how "evil" a band is because one of their members played in an NSBM band or went to a concert twenty years ago.... look at what happened to Black Magick SS... you can't even buy their CD due to the PC hysteria surrounding their music. This craze is destroying black metal.
Off-topic but I'm pretty happy. I'm a currently B1 english student and I could understand all the video without captions! I've always got a pretty bad listening from the language so it's really nice it's getting better. :D By the way thanks for sharing your thoughts in this video, they're actually pretty interesting.
You hit the nail on the head.... Hate clearly shows the lack of love and also importantly the total misunderstanding of why we need to respect each other. I am very thankful that you made this video. More people should actually stand up the need to hate one another.
Eh, I'm more of a fan of the view of punching nazis. There is a pretty clear divide between misanthropy and nazis however. I know they aren't black metal but lets look at Cattle Decapitation. Are their lyrics misanthropic, yes. Are they about a specific race ruining the world, no. If anything it can be judged as anti capitalist. In fact anti capitalist has been a predominant theme from punk up to black metal for decades. Tenant is a latest example of this. I honestly have come to think that it's hard to not to be political when it comes to music. Not because no one wants to just have fun, but because that's a powerful raw source of emotion to tap into.
Plenty of bad takes here. Cattle Decapitations ideology is really stupid. They claim to value animal life over human life. Which I don't think they actually believe. If vegan nazis took over America and banned eating meat but put minorities into death camps I think CD will then oppose them more then meat eaters.
Most NSBM bands are as awful as Absurd, but GBK is really the best USBM band. Just as Argoslent is probably one of the best Melodeath bands. Regardless of the lyrics.
The newest Pasty Nurp was one of his best I thought but what Farvann said at the end fits how I feel about it to because he sounds like an old drunkard at a bar playing songs and reliving the glory days, but those days are long over and he kind of knows it.
You can like a band for just their songs and not their political views, i listen to Burzum because its extra good and atmospheric music. Burzum feels like it could have come from Dalarna in Sweden, but still it was in Bergen in Norway. I like Burzum because of Kittelsens paintings too, Kittelsen is my favorite painting.
As someone who mix race and born in America and from the southern states. I had my share with hateful people many times.. I guess that’s kinda why I am so careful in black metal groups because some bands are NSBM while others aren’t and some is the grey areas. I normally don’t listen to it unless it’s melody black metal seems like more a safe side for me I guess.
I never really gave lyrics much attention - from pretty pop to black metal - so a band being NSBM or not is pointless to me. I'm just here for the music and what it makes me feel.
I understand your thoughts and I think you made a very interesting video, it's helpful. The best part is the end when you talk about the danger of certain situations in the music: the extreme nationalism, the supremacy thing, the glorification of war... this is dangerous, always. And that's why a lot of people can't handle the BM scene, because this is not always said. Yeah, BM is about hate, but it should always be methaphorical, or at least if expressed "physically", in a non criminal way (basically: create a band).
This video is very important for the Black Metal scene. Finally someone with a big outreach in the community who talks about this topic in a very mature, understanding and non-biased way. I do not listen to any NSBM bands, nor I ever will but I absolutely love the music of Burzum and Deathspell Omega. In both cases, I've seen very uneducated people say that those bands are NSBM. No they are not. Read the lyrics. You need to separate the artist from the art itself. I really hope that this kind of notion becomes absolutely mainstream in the BM community.
This is already the mainstream POV in the BM scene. The ones that call every band NS are either terminally online losers (for example: RABM subreddit) or scene tourists. They’re not to be paid any attention to.
@@ShayolGhul88 I've had some personal gripes with that subreddit ever since I started becoming way more open-minded when it comes to what to listen to in black metal. I used to be like them, but ever since I realized that you're gonna get some shit on your leg no matter what with some of the best acts (metaphorically speaking), I've stopped giving a crap about the musicians behind certain projects. Made my life a whole lot easier.
@@wheelsofmercury tell that to mikko aspa with his relations to Northern Heritage and the alleged child p0rn0graphy distribution. it's all fun and games to make artists seem like the walking equivalent of the lyrics/themes they write about, but I will never again support a band that has an alleged abuser in their ranks. I don't f_ck with Roman Polanski or Michael Jackson either, btw, for that exact same reason. It's kind of simple really?
@@FingeredCrosses Oh, I know Aspa is a horrible human being and what British people would call a "nonce" (hence why I sometimes nickname him "Ass-butt"). But I just focus on the music which happens to be top-quality stuff IMHO. What musicians do behind the scenes is none of my business; I'm just here for their music. But if you don't want to touch DsO or Clandenstine Blaze because of Mikko, I can understand that. I was the same way as you for a very long time.
That also conflicts with me like you have Bands like Nokturnal Mortum or Graveland etc... which are labeled nsbm, although there lyrics are about pagan stuff, heimat history and warriors ov old. I suppose a rebellious youth makes you say stuff with like at the time seems cool but will grow out in time.
I always say, if you can’t listen to something without feeling influenced to take the art literally rather than absorb it for it’s value and view it for its artistic quality, you aren’t a person who has a solid foundation to form a convincing opinion. Those kinds of people are easily persuaded by propaganda and completely miss the concept of artistic expression all together.
5min and 15 seconds in and I fully agree with you. Your English is beautiful! I'm sharing this with the ppl I have confrontations with about this topic. ✌️
I feel like writing about how much you love your country is really cheesy. It's mostly on the border of right winged or even extremist thoughts. It's nationalism that is also one important part of right winged thoughts. There might be some bands that are writing about how much they love their country and do not mean it in that way. But still it is a topic that is always suspicious. And Burzum might not be classified as Nsbm. That only depends on definition. But the point should be, that if you know some musician is a Nazi, you might not want to support that musician as a person. No matter if the music is about racist topics or not. If you listen to music in times of streaming, even listening is support. It helps the music to spread and gives the musician attention. It always depends on each case and your moral values, what you want to or don't want to support. And as a music lover it's even harder, if the music is good, but the musician is a racist. There's no easy solution to the question of Artist/ Artwork connection and following responsibility for listeners.
Do you think black metal bands whose members hold nationalistic and even racially prejudicial beliefs pose an existential threat to the current global (or wherever you live, national) order? The only way one could answer that question in the affirmative in anything close to good faith is because such bands and the people who comprise them, as well as the X number of people who might have yet to be exposed to them but be sympathetic to such views is due to the severity of censorship and indeed in some cases criminalization of even displaying NS or NS-adjacent views: the more fervently something is deemed taboo, the more alluring and seductive it becomes. On the other hand, maybe it's good that NSBM, RAC, etc. bands are censored the way they are, along with the sentiments they represent; it only adds to sociopolitical division and racial, religious, and ethnic disunity, which in turn fans the flames of those who see in their lives, wherever they are, increasingly totalitarian top-down imposed moral strictures which lie in direct contradistinction to Natural Law and thus breed anti-establishment contempt. In a word: accelerationism. 88.
Wether you agree or disagree I think no one has a right to critiize an NSBM band while listening to goregrind bands grunting about r@pe and ped0philia.
I think the intention and the context matters too. When a Band criticise or mocks Islam or Judaism in the same way like Christianity and the lyrics are a fist in the face of their fairytale ideology, it is the same. But it is a difference when Bands mix religion with a specific kind of origin/blood/ethnic group, this what ns Bands often do. I know a lot of bands that already have mocked or criticise Islam or even Judaism in their songs, some of them are well known in the metal scene, and no one ( with more than five brain cells) would call this bands ns or racist. Beside that, it is really stupid when people consider ideologys like religions as race.
I just came across this video and i think you are avoiding the point. You are separating music, lyrics and the people who wrote the lyrics. But the fact is NSBM is a not even a music genre, but a political movement, that projecting their ideology through music. Like nazi punk for example. So basically saying the music of a racist, with non racist lyrics make him no NSBM does not make sense. If a guy talking about loving his country but stated he is not racist and the other is literally showing their xenophobia with the same lyrics, guess what ? This is NSBM because the idea behind is gathering people to a political ideology, no musical meaning here. Don't get me wrong, we can all appreciate a piece of art, but not knowing the goal of the author will just let you unaware of the author's intention. It won't make you a nazi if you listen to them, but you have to be honest about the musical goal, which is not musical in fact, but political. Concerning NSBM directly, in France there is a pretty solid fan base of NSBM. This is a real problem because they try to come into mainstream festival to spread the ideology, not to just "play music". More and more venue book some of artists and "normal" people go to the shows not knowing the intention of this kind of bands. I found myself surrounded by nazis at a gig just because the event "looks cool" and i like some black metal. So there are choices to make when we promote artist and people need to be aware of their real intentions. You said something, that in my opinion is totally wrong: "politics and black metal are pretty much incompatible". Man really ? This movement came from a political ideology and it was not even a musical genre at the beginning. It was anti society and the place of Christianity in the norvegian society. Buring churches was not political ? Seriously this is one of the most political genre i think. It's true today it's mixed with some mythology and even evil fantasy, but as we concider true black metal, it is definetely political. Blasphemy is political, human hatred is political, loving nature instead of big cities with a lot of people is political of course ! But in general every metal genre is and was always political, i think metalheads really need to be aware of that. Anyway i hope i was kind enough and you're gonna read this comment, your channel is cool so i hope you do not feel offended. Just be carefull sometimes, it looks like you are giving argument to justify a stinky political movement ;)
I completely agree with this, I feel like ppl in the comments are failing to see the point when they say "oh, we should treat n4zis with respect" and yadda yadda yadda, like yeah, they're human beings too, but they're still hurting others at the end of the day and trying to respect a genre that doesn't bring anything useful to the table but obsolete beliefs seems useless to me. Someone's rights end where the other’s begin, imo. Also, I wonder how many people defending the genre or ns ideologies/sympathizers are actually affected by it...
A question to ask is: why did, at a certain point in the black metal scene, the NSBM had to be BORN? Answering right at this question automatically answers why it EXISTS the NSBM as a genre
Idk how to interpret your question, but to me, NSBM is born because, well, some nazi likes black metal or, probably if it gives a militant hard strongmen vibe like all nazi wants Hope that clear up ig
@@atouhoufan607 not entirely true, I mean, there could have been some "sick" fanatics or very stupid and ignorant people, but that wasn't the trigger. then a good dose of emulation also began
@MarcoVidharrMalinverno honestly, I could not care less about the politics of people. All I want to do is listen. Hell, most of the NSBM are from ukraine (I think), which I can't understand. But is your opinion
This was a very cool take on the „how to separate art from the artist“ take and I get your point. I respect your point. I am still not sure on how the Scene should react to active BDSM People. Like - If I were in a Band with a Label Contract and that Label would also start to sell BDSM Shit (And yeah, it is shit, even if the music might be good) - I would ask the label very politely to stop it or loose my support and gain an enemy. Because…. I am as misanthropic as the next guy, but at some point u just wanna be left alone. And those nazi folks will never do that. Their ideology is like a brutal and inhumane mind-virus that will never stop at „its just music“ and so they make themselves and enemy of mine. And I am usually very tolerant but my kindness ends very hard when there are people disrespecting borders and bringing actual toxicity. Then I fight back. Hope u get my point. And with fight I don’t mean violence (well, If some nazi on a concert means to fight then he might do that but don’t expect me to be nice about it. I know how to fight and break bones if needed. I just don’t want it.). I mean boykott, vocalize your opposition and act accordingly. I want everybody to be redeemed, If they are honest about it. Disclaimer: Yeah, I am German. I disrespect all extremist political views. Because its dangerous. I visited some places in Germany you don’t want to visit because its horrible. And not the good „oh that pcgame made me jump“ horrible, the actual horror. I hate nazis. I hate everything they did. And some things are unforgivable. Calling yourself a nazi, an extremist right wing who … if you boil down their views - wants to kill, then … that’s bad. That is what an enemy is made of.
I like to think in a very libertarian way, if you converse with ""extremists"" you will find out they're human too, and will converse too. The problem is that our modern world will silence the "right wing" and the left wing can do whatever it wants, it means these isolated right wing people will not be able to converse as much, because they got banned they will talk to same minded people, and get more "extreme" when if these people were left alone and could converse they would more likely be non-extremists, ofcourse not everyone, but i guarantee alot will calm down (i've seen it in person, with either "left or right") the problem now is leftist extremism is promoted and "conservatism" is being called out as FASCISM, we both need liberals and conservatists to be able to run a society, both are diferent minded type of people, i identify like Farvann, with both, i hate identity politics, to say "YOU ARE THIS, YOU ARE THAT" we are all humans is what it should be, not " IMA LEFTIEEE OR RIGHTIEEE"
I consider myself a far left nationalist. The reason people think that, is because so many groups that brand themselves "nationalist" wave black suns, totenkompfs, and hate jews and immigrants. They're not really nationalist's but they brand themselves as such, so its muddied the word.
People have the freedom to feel and listen to whatever they want. Hower, people also have the freedom to get their ass beat for insulting or disrespecting another. That goes for anyone and everyone.
I think hate and war are part of being human and expressing it in music or the arts is a good way to express it. Isn't the purpose of art to convey an emotion? And when you like a song, you like it and that's it. It's just music.
As Germans we have a completely different awareness of the whole Nazi history. In contrast to other countries, that part of history has been dealt with reasonably, but still there are people who are not intelligent enough to draw their conclusions from it. For me it is absolutely incomprehensible why one can in any way like to support such music. It is simply sad. Yes black metal has a lot to do with negative emotions. But you can also process negative emotions without specifically discriminating against population groups. Black metal should never be politically motivated.
Snø og granskog er heimsleg... After this video I fell like the reason, honesty and heart of the humanity is still beating. You're a good example of it. Much love Farvann.
I'm a child of the 60's and yet I have never heard anyone mention before that 'hate takes no strength' and 'hate is easy' ... good insight there Farvann. (No doubt people have mentioned it before... but it was new to me...)
There's that famous Smiths lyrics: "It's so easy to laugh, it' so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind". I was waiting for Farvann to quote it!
*The conversation with a girl gets awkwardly silent*
Me: Let's talk about NSBM
That’ll work, but can’t forget to explain the history of Varg right after
Fuck i did something smilar today 🤣 i try to explain massive differences between black and dead metal to my non metal girl , 🤣
@@jaanlucifer7056 That's how I dedicated my girlfriend to metal 😂
I did something similar and that girl peg me that very awesome
That's when you find out if she's a keeper or not. What did I mean by this?
Ed Sheeran seems like a genuinely nice guy, that's why it's important to always separate the art from the artist
😄
💀
Who is Ed Sheeran?
@@khr217 probably a nice guy.
Nah if you make bad music, I’m gonna drag you
Oh, welcome to the comment section! Please be respectful to each other, no matter what your political views are. Thanks!
I find the term pretty much useless as a "genre" definition, grouping black metal sub-genres along the lines of lyrics is much like grouping animals along the lines of which of them have wings, you'll end up with a bunch of things that are not really related. In "NSBM" you find many and very diverse sounds and approaches to the genre, from the early DSBM-ish Peste Noire, to their more recent electro-rapping-black, there's Nokturnal Mortum with slavic folk Black, there's a lot of War/Bestial Black bands, Many Orthodox Black Metal Groups and so on. Sure it may be a good note to drop when recomending a band like: Take care, they do this kind of shit.
On listening to it, I see nothing wrong directly as long a the listener has their own, well stablished and argumented position. There's a lot of ways to access this music with ideas without supporting the artist nor their ideals, that's even more points to piracy.
“Don’t hate Nazis, feel sorry for them”
Spoken perfectly. Hate won’t solve hate.
@@darkoz1380 makes sense that a ukrainian band are nazis lol
@@darkoz1380 The same thing can be said for RABM, too! Folk/bluegrass-inspired black metal like Panopticon, more violin-led blackened punk like Dawn Ray'd, spacey atmospheric black metal like Spectral Lore and so on and so forth...
@@ReginaldAnteel how I wish more people would understand that
I looked at people who are into NSBM and always kinda thought it just has to mean "No Sex Before Marriage", but thank you Farvann for clearing up this one for me!
🤣
No Slaying Before Metal.
Non Solid Bowel Movement, also known as diarrhea
@@Chad_Fuckhammer 💀💀💀
I can see you listen pop music before marriage 😂
I fully understand and respect the “separate the art from the artist” idea. I just personally find it difficult to ignore the artist’s actions while listening to their work.
Ah yes BDSM. Love this music. 🤘🏻
I believe Twisted Sister falls under this catagory.
@@djsigmann and maybe rammstein and marylin manson
Black depressive su*cidal metal 😎
Blackened death speed metal? I could go for that 😅
Rob Halford 4 life.
I have never agreed with someone on this topic more than with Farvann
Totally, " I don't hate Nazi's I feel bad for them" that's a good one and true,
I have friends who don't t like sum minorities, I give them my opinion on topics but they have there mind set, and it's prob easier to blame other ppl than look in the mirror,
To bad ppl couldn't open there eyes and just hate corruption and the police,
There is more stuff to hate but ,farvann is right hate is like negative energy,
My two cents,
yeah, same, finally someone that I agree about this
Yeah, nazi brains are nice seasoning for soup
Same here.
I know I will agree with him even before actually listening what he will say
"Hate is for the simple-minded people." The most anti-Black Metal line ever. :D
😎
Hate fucking rocks, dude
So is the peace symbol 😉. However I absolutely agree with your opinion. Hate is deeper and more human emotion than any!
@@UlfhedinnNorsk its actually the death rune and not the peace symbol. And yes, all these hippies with their chains and hoodies etc with that rune thinking it stands for peace, its actually the opposite.
@@UlfhedinnNorsk the deeper human emotion is sadness, hate is just stupid. Your comment is just an excuse for you to be a nazi
Very good perspectives on the issue, something I've faced countless times during my career as well. A lot of the hysteria about "NSBM", whatever that means, is also a reflection of the societies (especially in the western world) we live in. Black Metal in it's purest essence never changed, but those on the fringes of it look for opponents harder than ever.
(Yes, I wrote song about this and that and I used this and that word, check the context. Yes, I work with all kinds of people.)
woa is that really werwolf lurking farvann? the internet is a strange place. you may not beleive in any ideology but 'darkness', or whatever but an observer wouldn't know that from the company you keep. im trying to keep it civil as farvann requested but it also seems like you only like to distance yourself from NSBM when it affects your income, at all other times you seem fine with it.
@@deaconlasagna8570 I'm not lurking, I am checking internet content regularily. You don't know the company I keep. If I would want to make MORE money, I would not distance myself from NSBM as controversy equals big bucks, but I would prefer the truth. Guilt by association or cherrypicking naughty words is not truth, it's childish. That is why I am addressing this now as it's getting out of hand.
@@Werwolf you are not nazi but also wrote nazi songs. Always hated this ideology
@@Werwolfou’re literally in a dozen nsbm bands that wear there nazism on their sleeve, sure SM’s music is good & has distanced itself from the early goosestepping material but Gestappo 666’s stuff is well on the nose, then there’s the label....
pretty disappointing that Farvann is trying to pretend like it’s ‘just patriotism man’.
@@kearingoodwin4856 you're literally lying and literally twisting the issue into something that has nothing to do with me. Any "nsbm" labels have always been made by third parties, and I never distanced myself from anything, I just addressed these blatant lies such as yours. If you can't take it as anything else but bullshit like "ns", it's not my fault. Lite fvkking rally.
"i dont hate nazis. i feel sorry for them" he had me in the first half ngl
I'm so happy to know a black metal guy who can perfectly divide comic part and more serious part, a guy that can make you laugh but that can make you also take serious arguments on important topic, just like this.
Totally agree with your point of view btw, and I think it should be the main point of view because it's the most rational I've heard about it.
In a world where there are lots of misunderstandings , especially in black metal, it's always good to see people like you, and I would say like your community too. :)
It's great to see that you understand how simplifying this topic will only make things worse. Defining yourself with the things you hate is a miserable existence, and too many people in metal miss that point.
Here in the Netherlands, NSBM = Black Metal Subgenre which is defined entirely by its Lyrical Theme: The cosmic horrors of the Dutch Railway system.
Best known examples of the subgenre are projects like "WiSSelstoring" and "Vertraging 666" and titles such as the blasphemous "Intercity Toilet Holocaust" .
As a Brazilian who has been to the Netherlands and had to take trains to go into other towns this is very accurate 😂😂😂
For some reason, NS trains are often criticized by the dutch for being too late or disfunctioning
As a Belgian, I feel your pain.
This thread has made my day :)
There is also the arcane horror of forgetting to swipe your card and getting charged for the full line.
@@MSHNKTRL Don't forget the horrors of your e ticket not getting scanned and having to use a physical one
My man just dropped the deepest and most philosophical quote I've heard talking about a music genre. I'm very impressed
"Hate is for the simple minded"
I don't know if you're still looking at comments for this video, but that really struck a chord with me. I'm not really in to black metal. I'm a huge traditional and power metal fan. But I can vouch for the fact that it is so easy to give in to bitterness, even if it isn't in the form of prejudice. I've been in places where I had to get it through my head that hating the world is going to do nothing to fix any of it, and everything to make me a meaner person.
National Sozialismus is not about hatred, read Mein Kampf than write comments about the topic, or if you are not familiar with books than watch a movie or two about the Reich, not Holywood bullshit but real documentary. Nonetheless i have nothing but honour and pride for my country, no hate towards anyone that dont deserve one. Hate, if existing, is only aimed towards those who are against my country and those who have no human moral to live upon.
actually its backed up by all the data.
Tell that to the jews who hate white straight people
Boo hoo
Then don't hate NSBM, fruit.
Generally a very good objective take on a topic a discussion is almost always impossible. But I think you kinda left out one part that does play a role in defining NSBM, which is the visuals. There are certain bands that don't really have obvious racist lyrics but do display NS-swastikas and other NS symbols/ gestures in their releases and/or on stage, which to me makes them NSBM as well.
Taake isn't a nazi.
Drowning the Light, Satanic Warmaster and Maquahuitl are the best example of what you say.
Man, I actually really like this take. It’s not just “thing 1 good” and “thing 2 bad”, there’s nuance to it which I think mirrors reality better than pretending things are easily seen as black/white. I couldn’t agree more strongly with the “I like the art, but I don’t need to like the artist or their views” sentiment, especially in these times when labels are bandied about too frequently to believe at face value anymore (I mean, getting called a n*zi for posting German Black Metal in a community post is a solid example).
It’s also refreshing to hear the (completely reasonable) take of forming opinions on a case-by-case basis instead of an ideology. I’m surprised and kind of disappointed that there’s so much vitriol for people who don’t just ‘pick a side’ and consume the pre-packaged thoughts and opinions that get included when you join one of the clubs. Of course music has the right to be political, but I think it should also have the right to be apolitical without that being immediately dismissed. If someone wants to staple their politics to someone else’s art that’s fine, but that doesn’t mean everyone else has to agree, and if you don’t then you’re a bad person. Sometimes it feels like everything we say is bound to be interpreted in bad faith by someone, and it’s just up to us to either shut up completely or weather whatever projected shit gets flung our way.
Tl;dr: The world isn’t simple, art can be separated from the artist, and don’t be an asshole.
Thank you, I agree with every word you said!
Well said!
So are you married?!😇
For me from my view point I can't separate Artist from Art if the Artist has done something I've seen as horrible or evil even like if someone has Nazi views or are part of any kind of hate group no matter who the group is, or if someone is a murderer, Cannibal, Rapist, or Pedo, those kinds of people I'd like to see thrown in Solitary Confinement for life, and wouldn't support their Art.
But I know some people can separate Artist from Art and that's completely fine, our brains are all wired differently we've all experienced different things and have our different views on things and I'm not going to judge someone because they enjoy a band whose lyrics I don't agree with.
So long as you aren't hurting anyone else then I don't care what you do.
@@Werewolf914 I'm just thankful that there aren't a large variety of bands that fit in the genre of nsbm, it's very niche and I haven't really heard many to be honest. I mean you have so many other bands to choose from that you can't possibly be missing out on anything anyway. Then again they don't always use Nazi swastikas or have overtly sounding Nazi names so it could be easy to miss of you don't pay attention to those things. You have Ad hominem for instance and they only use the iron cross so you might not know right away that they are nsbm. You can also get thrown by the many Norse pagan bands since it's a philosophy that's been adopted by many Nazis, thankfully most are just about the mythology of it. So long as you aren't openly endorsing them or their message it's pretty forgivable, especially if you aren't aware of it.
Someone get this man a Medal Of Honour for services to Humanity!!!!
Barak Obama will give his Friedensnobelpreis to him, ok?
Knights Cross.
THE NOBEL CUCK AWARD!
Metal of honour
Best we can do is medal of freedom
I think I needed to hear that last part, Farvann. Also, you’re 100% on this topic, man. Seriously, how are you not a larger channel?
That was refreshing to hear someone speak on things in a mature and open minded way. Thanks
I absolutely agree with you on that one, 'hate is for the simple minded', it appears everywhere and it never leads to something good...
A brave thing to discuss such a topic, but you did so in a mature, sensible and human way and I really respect that. Great video!
Kind of like how modern Judaism is based on a set of writings that insist that all Jews should be racist and hateful toward all non-Jews. Pointing that out would just be simple minded and everyone should just magically all get along because of the United Nations or something.
I'm really glad that there are still people willing to discuss this topic without the fear of being cancelled or whatever, just because they're "giving coverage/visibility to hateful ideas". These ideas and concepts are not going to go anywhere simply by trying to shut them down - clearly, these ideologies have somewhat flourished despite numerous and continuous attempts to snuff them out. Ignoring them wont do any good, it only gives more fuel to certain individuals to continue bashing others and promoting all kinds of hate, conspiracy theories and whatnot. Trying to understand a phenomenon does not mean that you are promoting the thing in question. However, NSBM and the concept of evil worship and hate being so central to the development black metal admittedly complicates matters quite a lot. I think it is a fair argument to say that NSBM is just another form of evil worship. That being said, _legitimately_ rooting for these ideologies via ones music is... let's say, troubling. Being all edgy in every way imaginable and venting ones frustrations and pent up anger via music can be cathartic. Or very harmful. We are very flawed beings in that - there's no way in telling how someone receives and interprets a downpour of hatred clad in music or other forms of art. An open dialogue is needed to keep things reasonable. We cannot achieve an open dialogue by a complete censorship of unwanted opinions/ideas. Black metal has rebelled against the core values of mainstream society for a very good reason, and we need to be able to discuss the reasons behind this rebelling act for it to bear any fruit.
Regarding the concept of misanthropy - do I hate people? Yes. Do I think that some aspects of humanity are lovable? Abso-fucking-lutely. I think that people should be able to hold conflicting views on the world while regarding each of them as equally "true", if that's a definition that can be applied here. There is no "good" nor "bad" without someone there to experience these conceptualizations. Personally I found my love for humanity through hating it. Letting yourself be blinded by your hate is a different matter entirely. Is being a misanthrope a prerequisite for being a black metal head? Ehh.... no. But it sure seems to be a common theme in the scene, I'll give you that.
Does loving your country or appreciating its tumultuous history or being prone to somewhat nationalistic ideas automatically equal national socialism? Fuck no. You can appreciate the core values of your nation (and what they represent to you) and the struggles your people have gone through without excluding every other nationality or "race" as being somehow inferior. The phenomenology of human life in this world of ours is NOT either or, black or white. There's a multitude of shades of gray (over 50 of them, in fact) in this matter.
Should bands like Burzum or others that have members with nazi sympathies automatically be considered NSBM? No, that's just silly. Sometimes people with troubling world views come up with amazing things/ideas, and you can enjoy these amazing things as they are. Whether or not you wish to boycott such acts because of your personal values is up to you. Even listening to bands that are considered NSBM does not necessarily make you a nazi - hell, how could it?
To me, at least, politics is a system of thought that is in many ways very similar to various religious doctrines: some fascinating ideas and concepts - but generally speaking, very poor execution. I absolutely despise most politicians and many (if not most) religious authorities. But that sure doesn't mean that there isn't anything worth contemplating about in their respective fields of expertise.
_(Edit: Just to be clear, if you lack the time/interest/attention span/whatever to read a few paragraphs of someone else's (somewhat irrelevant) opinions on a given topic, feel free to stop reading and move along. I am not forcing you to read anything, and will continue to write at some length whenever and wherever I feel like it. There's no need for smart-ass remarks.)_
mucho texto
TLDR this is RUclips comments, not Reddit.
Extremely well put you hit it right on the head
Well put. This in large part is what separates ALL forms of extreme metal from the rest of the world. It is for those who question & for those who think in order to understand & grow.
@@raffandbotnikSí, pero basado.
Wow Farvann, bei dem Titel habe ich schlimme Phrasendrescherei befürchtet aber du machst das verdammt gut und bringst die Sache auf den Punkt. Respekt von mir!
Got your point and it's really makes sense to me. Thanks for uploading this video. Unfortunately, I haven't seen good content like yours, recently here on RUclips. Please keep on posting! Cheers from Brazil.
Black Metal is music of transgression and extremism. No boundaries no limits. That’s what we love about it. NSBM is an artifact of that.
True
nsbm is no more extreme than chrisitian fundamentalism. its just total conformity, herd mentality, weak Identity politics, and obeying authority lmao . why is there somehow this idea that ns shit is extreme because of ww2? is christianity extreme because they fought wars in the past too? Oh bro I am such a extreme person because i believe in jesus christ and i think atheists are evil!! ... what? ... do you have this same "extremist" attitude towards actually shocking shit like pedo black metal or something actually awful? you probably would boycot That shit in your "moral outrage" ... its such a joke... so dont pretend like you mean anthing when you say bm is so "extreme" and "transgression" because you would turn into screeching moralf@g when its about something you actually find abhorrent.. dont act like not liking nsbm is because "its too extreme!!!" lol no its just fking stupid Weak minded identity politics for sheep its Cringe
Also isn't Black Metal supposed to cause discomfort to the listener in some cases? I count NSBM as that
I think it’s also a genius way to gatekeep and scare the posers away lmfaoo 💀
@@demoskovalyes it is but nsbm isn’t singing about nazis to cause discomfort the ppl making it are neo nazis
I loved your meditation on hatred at the end. Hatred is easy, to love takes real strength
Its reverse actually , when you dont hate anybody you dont have to think about anything or distress yourself
@Tungsten_Walls ew, a nazi
I'm also interested in what you love about NSBM if you do. Because - as you probably noticed - I'm having some problems with the genre.
nsbm generally has really good riffs tbh, goatmoon, aktion t4, absurd, peste noire etc. i think not being able to enjoy music just because it has some barely coherent lyrics that you don't agree with is just dumb
True! I listen to is as well sometimes. Totally forgot to mention that in the video. But yeah, listening to it and actively supporting it are two different things. At least to me.
Great instrumentals for some bands. Nokturnal Mortum is the cream of the crop when it comes to amazing instrumentation in those kinds of bands (followed closely by Peste Noire). Of course, their lyrics can be absolutely horrible and I'd rather not translate their Ukrainian lyrics because...🤷♂Well, I don't want to know what they're saying; it's probably really f-ed up!
I like quite a bit of it (mainly the ones who have a strong Oi! & HC punk influence), but I could never see any of those bands play live or get down with the politics since I'm not White. The only NS bands I've seen live are Japanese RAC bands when I was stationed in Japan. They were probably in a state of shock and thinking "Is he a tourist who got lost on the way to the hip-hop gig? Does he know where he is?"
@@wheelsofmercury NM, Hate Forest, Windswept and Drudkh are my fav Ukrainian bm bands!
To me, in black metal lyrics are secondary. Vocals are a big part of what i love in black metal, but lyrics themselfes? not so much. So i like listening to NSBM, RABM or any other black metal. If i can feel the "magic" in the music then i love it. Regardless of what the vocalist is singing
lol
Gaahl's fan?
@@OddTastySausage nah
Half the time you can't understand the lyrics anyway
Samesies. I been listening to it for 25 years and never gave a shit what they were sing about in the slightest 😂
Once people realize that no matter what you believe what matters is being rational and level headed, that is when a true conversation can happen. That is how we as humans should carry forward, people on social media talk and talk but no one communicates. This is a proper example of communication and it is beautiful from Farvann.
The problem I see is that many musicians who have NS tendencies make it impossible to separate art from artist. Burzum may not be by your definition NSBM, but not having lyrics, and the band essentially being one guy who has some pretty cut and dried opinions sort of makes it impossible to separate the two. I also find that many bands who are in their personal lives folks with NS tendencies have a way of having those ideas pop up in their lyrics. And there's a lot of bad faith defense when they try to claim they aren't NSBM.
They also tend to get very pissy when it becomes clear that people aren't interested in buying their music anymore when they themselves have said pretty direct statements outside of their music, or when venues start cancelling their gigs. Tl;DR: You can think what you want and put that in your lyrics or not. Nobody is beholden to listen or not cancel your gig when you say racist things.
The true conversation was WW2 where the Nazis proposed an idea that they were superior to every other race, built a hyper-militaristic society, started 1 war and then lost.
It is not rational and level headed to hold racist beliefs. Racism is irrational, so the “no matter what you believe in” is a bit oxymoronic to use
dang this was a shockingly awesome video that had a lot more to offer than simple genre explanations. good job. subbed
It was a nice moral lecture indeed
You speaking of hatred and it being for the simpleminded really touched my heart. Hatred has always been what makes this world degenerate. Thanks Farvann ily🖤🖤🖤
@Tungsten_Walls you have 133 comments on this video lmao
Ernsthaft man,mehr Menschen die so ein Bewusstsein und Verständnis haben und die Welt wer n bißchen weniger beschissen!cheers bruder🍻
the very most important thing you brought up here is the distinction between art and outright support of extremist hate ideology in lyrics, AND, educating people on the legitimate dangers of being swayed by the messages put forth. that is SO important. i feel a lot of people go into nsbm thinking "nah dude i'm just here for the riffs, hate the lyrics" which is a valid mindset. but i feel that that can unfortunately slowly be warped by desensitization. it's very possible, but only if you allow yourself, this is why some critical thinking is important! i hope more newcomers come to realize there's good and bad sides to everything, there really is nuance to many things, and debate like this is extremely healthy for the scene, rather than full stop black/white thinking and reacting. mix art, people, ideas, and things will never *not* be complex, and at times uncomfortable. "love conquers all" is indeed beyond cliche and cheesy but it will never not ring true.
I've seen other commentators (mainly lame ones trying to finesse the algorithm) label Behemoth as nsbm.
So glad you've given a nuanced, yet simple breakdown
Yes, I just watched a discussion with 2 'reactors' (who are both fairly popular on RUclips I might add) and the conversation came around to discussing racism in metal, not specifically Black Metal but Metal in general, and they were talking shit about Nergal saying that because he is personal & good friends with Rob Darken/Graveland they say that because of this he is guilty of supporting Graveland's ideas & ideals. I personally don't think that's fair. I've never seen anything from Nergal or Behemoth even remotely being racist. It seems like a cheap shot. People who scream the loudest about NSBM and such usually come off as holier than thou and it always seems like the persecution of someone who may or may not support those views is more important than actually caring about some minority or group being targeted. Like a witch hunt mob mentality.
Someone thinks Behemoth are NSBM? Nice joke. I thought to be an NSBM band it's necessary (yet not enough) to be NS first
Hello Farvann, respect for emphasizing to focus on love and make good hints to avoid to focus one’s life around hate. What you are talking about is the reality both you and me and lots of others who experienced that. Question is somebody is strong enough to overcome hate, and realize love? When somebody is in a personal crisis, music can be a remedy, and listening music helps to overcome that. Also important to have a scepticism about the lyrics, do not follow anything or any ideology blindly. Metal helped us to learn to think, this was (one of)the lessons. Farvann, it would also worth a video to discuss what energies a music (for example black metal) can transmit or how we can utilize that, also what is the influence on the mood, on the mind, etc..
I fully agree with you farvann! And wanted to add about letting the hate devour you,i let it happen to me for many years and its taken me as many to unlearn to always feel hate,now i werent hating anyone or anything specifically but i hated everything snd still get those days so even if BM are a besutiful thing, its very very healthy to think for oneself and have some distance to the lyrical contexts aswell.
You've spoken about the subject with the right sensitivity and maturity. That was deep bro. Thanks
My first thought when I saw the title was "If dsbm stands for 'depressive sui-al black metal', then nsbm stands for 'not sui-al black metal' ". Even tough I was fan of the music for many years, I am still new to the community and didn't know about this sub-category. This video was very educational for me. Also I think we have to be more aware that not all German people are/were national socialists.
I thought it meant Neo-suicidal black metal at first. I guess the S will always stand for suicide in our minds.
You are totally right with everything you said. I'm German too and it's right that especially many German BM bands are considered NSBM. There are certain bands with members playing in other groups which are labeled as NSBM. But playing in an NSBM band (f. e. as a side project) doesn't make the band I'm taking about NSBM. Your Video is suitable for not making hasty judges and prejudices concerning BM in general and especially certain bands. For examples I can't understand why concerts of bands like Mgla und Kalmankantaja had been cancelled in the near past. NSBM in fact is related to the lyrics and nothing else.
Hate is easy. Wow, you nailed more than the video was intended at the end. Bravo sir. I enjoyed that. Subbed
Good to see a video and your take on the topic.
I also think there's two seperate issues here, actual NSBM that covers the topic and ideas in it's lyrics and bands whose lyrics are about something else entirely where (some of) the band members happen to be on the far right or are accused of that. It's like you said with Burzum, yeah Varg is right wing but I wouldn't consider Burzum NSBM.
For actual NSBM (or just far right music in general, could be RAC or other genres - the lyrics are what actually count here) while I don't really care myself and will listen to whatever I like, I can understand people not wanting to support it because it goes against their own ideals especially if they themselves lean further to the left.
In the other case where the music doesn't have anything to do with the theme I find it ridiculous how people can't separate the art from the artist sometimes. I wonder if they do it the other way around to, will they listen to shitty music because they like the political stance of the singer?
This take is so hot that my tongue is begging for mercy. Especially about mainstream music you hear everywhere. It is what it is unfortunately.
@@Aggrovious Mainstream music is mainstream because it's uncontroversial. It can be political but only in a way where the vast majority of people will predictably agree with it. I would argue mainstream music is like industrial mass produced beer that gets advertised on TV. Engineered to fit the taste of as many people as possible while losing all individual characteristics and avoiding anything that could spark controversy or disagreement, thus dull and boring but profitable.
@@Chili_667 chatGPT would say the same thing
@rhys williams I'm going to keep it 55, most of us use Spotify to listen to music. Therefore, we aren't really supporting Burzum, though some of his songs are great musically. I support a band by seeing them live and buying their merch or online. I am sad for Varg, because he could be a really cool dude if he didn't have such a twisted worldview. Regardless, I don't care about Varg and will continue to listen to Burzum...on Spotify.
I find that even when I can understand the lyrics, I really don’t pay attention to them, no matter if I agree or disagree with the band
This is the only channel that made NSBM make sense as a subgenre and not jump on the bandwagon of HATE THEM BECAUSE POTENTIAL NSBM!!! You actually broke down how easy it is to mix up songs about war/history and Nazism
A perfect example of the historical part of metal is Sabaton! Of course we know that some of their fans think Sabaton is about something else.
@@TheAxeaman Really? :DDD
@@Ifuckforcrack Yes, really! :DDD
You could not imagine my fear when I saw this as a notification on my phone
hahaha
@@Farvann I love you man never stop being yourself
Actually nuanced discussion on this topic which seems rare, subbed
I agree Burzum isn’t automatically NSBM just because Varg has some interesting personal opinions.
Great video! I’m a Spanish woman that listens to Black Metal but I don’t get offended by these lyrics. I won’t go to their concerts but I can enjoy the music.
Let's go to one.
Spaniards are white why would you get offended
The Irish during the Jim Crow era in America did not consider Spaniards white.
@@horrorvillainfan4342 And irish weren't considered white either, much less white than spaniards and have more controversy about their race surrounding them. Pointless to mention
@@malibupixie so why are Spaniards not responsible for the creation of the klan?
My (ultra-condensed) take on the matter: find inspiration wherever you want / can because art (or cultural manifestation or expression) has room for everything. But art is one thing and life is another. If you fail to see the difference, that's only the beginning of the big trouble you're getting into. (Edit: One more detail: even if art has room for everything, that doesn't mean everything is good or everyone is going to like it. So, express yourself as you like, but you can be wrong / disliked, and that's part of the beauty of everything: the differences, variety, creativity...)
So, If I've understood correctly, I agree with most of things here.
" But art is one thing and life is another."
Generally, people who listen to extreme metal uses to be more intelligent (there was a study on that, I swear!). And I think this is key, our ability to use suspension of disbelief.
I couldn't say it in a better way
I disagree. Music reflects man's deepest desires and dreads. Music is MORE true than reality because reality is riddled with deceptions. Music as Schopenhauer puts it is the unfiltered expression of the will. It is not a mere appearance.
I really would want to know your opinion about BSoD Grausamkeit. And thanks for this video - really takes some balls to talk about this genre!
It rocks, BSoD is a heroin addicted genius
Excellent video! Yes. The part you spoke about being influenced by lyrics can cause young persons, and some adults, to live dangerously. Violent rap music, and material focused pop music are good examples. Metal is no exception. I certainly agree with you saying that being hateful can consume you and you lose part of who you are (summarized). I never research to see if bands I are NSBM. I just listen to the riffs mainly and try to pick up ideas for my writing. Good topic!
I appreciate your video, I've had my fair share of discussion about this topic with my metalhead friends. I have one disagreement and open up the discussion, even though I understand your point that NSBM is because of the lyrics I think that's a little bit naive because music is a business as well and it has a whole structure beyond one song with Nazi lyrics.
One discussion we had was about going to a concert of a band that's being tied with NSBM even though their lyrics don't have theses themes but they are in fact signed by Northern Heritage, a label somehow polemic due to the artist they represent and it's founder because they also create more content (books, etc) where they spread this stupid ideology and that makes us wonder if buying their records or their tickets help the economy to keep this afloat and I don't want to give my money to help their economy
I know very little about Black Metal subgenres. After learning what DSBM is I kinda assumed that NSBM stands for Not Suicidal Black Metal.
Boy was I wrong.
They will be suicidal when they find out how much better Jews riff than they do...
@@ryanpaul1403Big take, now put the multitude of examples to make sense
best joke of the day))
Rofl 😂😂😂
Thanks for dropping the truth bomb on the masses, Farvann!
I agree with most points, probably apart from the last one.
If we use the logic "if you're obsessed with hateful lyrics that tell you how you are the master race, it may change you", then 90% of all metal (especially black metal) is potentially dangerous, to say the least. I believe music can most certainly impact you, but the way and the extent to which it affects you depends on your mental stability and health. And personally I don't think hating Jews is much better than hating Christians or people as a whole, so I don't feel like NSBM is particularly problematic here.
As for the rest of the points, I fully agree. Music shouldn't be about politics, it should be about bringing people together instead of yet again dividing them.
By the way, which NSBM bands/songs would you recommend to me as a newbie in the genre (I know it's a lyrical theme and not a genre as such, just like unblack metal or RABM, but still)?
I would recommend you start with the Ukrainian band Nokturnal Mortum and their 2009 album The Voice of Steel for its very ambitious melting pot of folk and black metal. They are amazing instrumentally and are really creative and ambitious, especially on that album. Their most NS-leaning album lyrically is 1999's NeChrist.
@@wheelsofmercury have heard of them, will check "The Voice of Steel" out, thanks.
I think you made a good video about it, because you're level-headed and smart about it. A good take indeed, but then again I know this sounds biased because I also think 99 % the same and that 1 % difference is that I'm not German, but Finnish. Cheers from another YoutTuber who have done videos about the very same topic.
Thank you, Rauta!
Thank you for this well-worded delivery, it’s always a risk to talk about this topic and you took that risk. I think you did well to articulate your point and I found it very insightful. People will always continue to disagree in one way or another but that’s just the way it is.
Farvann, Thank you for explaining. I agree that the lyrics are what define NSBM. The music along is sounds in the air, while the words have power and meaning. I liked your warning of hate growing, too. I live in Germany, and, to be honest, NS is not even on the table. Thank you. Robert.
While the subgenre is undeniably defined by the lyrical themes, it's also undeniable that much of NSBM has its own riff style and its own type of song structures. Many of them sound more "upbeat" ore even positive in their own twisted respect, which can sometimes be uniquely appealing. While this obviously doesn't go for all NSBM, bands that incorporate this type of riffing and structuring are invariably NSBM. Anyway, thanks for having the fortitude to address this "forbidden" topic
It is pretty screwed that some of the worst lyrical themes in metal can be tied to some of the best riffs ever. I mean, look at Arghoslent, for example...
@@wheelsofmercury Arghoslent? Their riffs are sh!t, they're Melodeath which means they're even worse with their horrible lyrics.
@Tungsten_Walls Just lyrics and song titles, man... they are veeeery racist towards black people. But their riffs are amazing! Hence why the only songs I come back to from those guys are two instrumental tracks with some great riffing in them.
@Tungsten_Walls The neo-progressive cancel mob/hate mob shielded by false virtue, mostly,
@Tungsten_Walls I can see where you're coming from. I don't 100% agree with you, but I can see where you are coming from and I'm not going to bash you for coming to that conclusion.
Funny enough I think the misunderstanding of lyrics also helps with point number 4 in this video. I think there have been plenty of instances where songs about a country from a black metal song have been taken to support someone with those ideals already if that makes sense. I think it’s why black metal in particular tends to have these bands where death metal doesn’t (if there is a following of NSDM bands I’ve never seen or heard of it.)
But I do think black metal tends to be a bit more political, maybe in a more esoteric sense than many realize. I mean if people didn’t at least politically care about their country, they wouldn’t feel as strongly compelled to write out their homes. Like how punk itself is an extremely political genre of music, so it would attract both extremes, even if the original people didn’t really intend for that to happen.
Just discovered your channel man! Great stuff, greetings from Serbia!
Singing about how much you love your country can bring things to a fine line, and that's pride. The belief that your country is superior to another is a massive problem and people see no problem with it.
I‘m torn between different views on that matter. While I don’t think that it’s necessarily a good idea to separate the artist and the art from each other (because I think especially in music it’s not that simple) I do think it is ok to listen to music where the lyrics don’t show explicit hate towards a specific group of people. I personally try to avoid listening to bands where it’s quite obvious that both art and artist share extremist thoughts. It’s not like there isn’t enough music out there to listen to. People should just remember that they are actively SUPPORTING artists with extremist thought when they buy their music. And behind every piece of music is a real person. So yes, separating isn’t really possible if you spend money on an Album or Merch. What annoys me tho is when artists try to hide their views when they are being accused of something. I‘m not saying that they are obliged to share their views as artist and I can understand if they don’t want to give any political statements. But if I as a listener want to make sure I’m not supporting people with actual Nazi ideologies when buying their music I think it’s proper to at least give a short, clear statement and not to beat about the bush. They don’t have to distance themselves from their viewpoints or justify anything. Giving a statement especially in a genre like BM is not a big deal really. And we all know that nothing good can come out of Nazism. I want to have a choice if I want to support a band financially or not. Don’t get me wrong, neither do I say right-wing thoughts make someone automatically evil nor do I condemn those people. What I’m against is true Nazism and extremist thoughts. Where hate and suiting the action to the word is just one small step away from each other. I personally also have the tendency to have more right-wing thoughts here and there but I’d never go as far as to spread hate, ostracize a certain group of people or detest someone because of his/her skin color, ethnicity, nationality or whatever. I simply just want to enjoy music and not think about wether the person behind it admires Hitler.
Also: some bands or individual band members of some bands are being confronted with guilt by association and are having concerts being cancelled yet they are still not giving any clear statements but instead being all pissed about it. I can understand both sides tho. But why not just make it clear once and for all then? It’s also weird when people don’t care at all about Nazi music but when asked wether he would surround himself with real Nazis and he’s suddenly refusing because he wouldn’t want to then it makes no sense to me why enjoying their music seems to be ok. I wouldn’t want to sit in a room with 10 real Neo Nazis. I honestly don’t. So why would I give them my money?
Anyway, good video and greetings from Germany :^)
Don't support Darker than Black and World Terror Committee, thats really it. Two labels. Don't support them and chances are you will be good.
@@patrickbertlein4626 Then what about Northern Heritage? Idk if it’s actually that simple to avoid nsbm artists. Not everyone is signed to a label
Behind every music is AI now lol
I feel like once you really start dipping your toes in black metal in earnest, it becomes almost impossible to keep your collection totally "clean". Bands I know are totally 'safe' might get distributed by labels or mailorders that carry records or merch from bands that are explicit nazis. I feel like you have to do the best you can and go with what feels right to you. Everybody seems to have a threshold for how "sus" a band/label/distributor is and for some it has to be completely clean or they don't support it. I've somewhat settled on the approach that I am comfortable supporting an artist if they are not extremists (according to all the information I am able to find), and they don't have any close personal associations with any bands or individuals that are compromised in that way. Sometimes partnerships with questionable labels is unavoidable in the underground, but explicitly nazi labels are a hard "no." I despise nazis and I wouldn't want them to get a penny from me if I can help it.
@@AndrewRyan716 I agree 100%.
The reddit warriors fine combing through every single interview for a hot take are pretty insufferable acting all pious on their soapbox
It's not about piousness per se. I'm among the "can't separate the artist from the art" people cause I just want to listen to something that sounds good but also aligns with my values or that is made by people who have similar values at least. So, I understand why people go through those lengths to vet bands, even if it appears extreme or high-horse in nature. I just think there is too much judgement in either direction. Everyone engages with art differently. I won't judge people that listen to NSBM or call them nazis, but I don't want to be called a "snowflake" if I'm trying to check if a band is "sus" on Reddit. We don't need to get mad about it.
It's about the music. If you want to waste your time researching every single thing related to a band then waste your time. It's literally music; enjoy it!
@@Charles_Anthony It can be about the music for you. For others, it can be about the music AND the message and/or anything else. It CAN be time consuming, but oh well? People are entitled to their opinions but why are they reactive about others wanting to do that work to engage with art in their own way?
@@Lyth47: Because, it isn't just limited to that person's enjoyment. Most people who do the research will go around telling everyone how "evil" a band is because one of their members played in an NSBM band or went to a concert twenty years ago.... look at what happened to Black Magick SS... you can't even buy their CD due to the PC hysteria surrounding their music. This craze is destroying black metal.
@Lyth it’s not that deep
Total support from south of France 🤘 🖤 🤘
Off-topic but I'm pretty happy. I'm a currently B1 english student and I could understand all the video without captions! I've always got a pretty bad listening from the language so it's really nice it's getting better. :D
By the way thanks for sharing your thoughts in this video, they're actually pretty interesting.
Thanks! I guess I'm between B2 and C1 right now. Never actually checked though.
You hit the nail on the head.... Hate clearly shows the lack of love and also importantly the total misunderstanding of why we need to respect each other. I am very thankful that you made this video. More people should actually stand up the need to hate one another.
Eh, I'm more of a fan of the view of punching nazis. There is a pretty clear divide between misanthropy and nazis however. I know they aren't black metal but lets look at Cattle Decapitation. Are their lyrics misanthropic, yes. Are they about a specific race ruining the world, no. If anything it can be judged as anti capitalist. In fact anti capitalist has been a predominant theme from punk up to black metal for decades. Tenant is a latest example of this. I honestly have come to think that it's hard to not to be political when it comes to music. Not because no one wants to just have fun, but because that's a powerful raw source of emotion to tap into.
Plenty of bad takes here. Cattle Decapitations ideology is really stupid. They claim to value animal life over human life. Which I don't think they actually believe. If vegan nazis took over America and banned eating meat but put minorities into death camps I think CD will then oppose them more then meat eaters.
There needs to be a laugh reaction for some of the screeching from the nazis that replied. Maybe antifa milkshakes did give them brain damage.
@Tungsten_Walls considering Mike Enoch's divorce & running of am irrelevant grouplet, I'm not so sure about that
@@charion1234 That is a lot of words for "I love bbc in my wife"
That's very courageous to open your mind about this subject on the Internet, and you did it very well -Applause-
Goatmoon and Pete Noire are actual sick black metal bands
True!
@@MrUnderhilll Grand Belials Key be hitting diff
Most NSBM bands are as awful as Absurd, but GBK is really the best USBM band. Just as Argoslent is probably one of the best Melodeath bands. Regardless of the lyrics.
The newest Pasty Nurp was one of his best I thought but what Farvann said at the end fits how I feel about it to because he sounds like an old drunkard at a bar playing songs and reliving the glory days, but those days are long over and he kind of knows it.
@@MrUnderhilll Defo, Nokturne and Pantheon are also among my favorites.
You can like a band for just their songs and not their political views, i listen to Burzum because its extra good and atmospheric music. Burzum feels like it could have come from Dalarna in Sweden, but still it was in Bergen in Norway.
I like Burzum because of Kittelsens paintings too, Kittelsen is my favorite painting.
This guy has never been forced to live amongst nons
I don't even know what that's supposed to mean
As someone who mix race and born in America and from the southern states. I had my share with hateful people many times.. I guess that’s kinda why I am so careful in black metal groups because some bands are NSBM while others aren’t and some is the grey areas. I normally don’t listen to it unless it’s melody black metal seems like more a safe side for me I guess.
I never really gave lyrics much attention - from pretty pop to black metal - so a band being NSBM or not is pointless to me. I'm just here for the music and what it makes me feel.
I stopped giving a shit a while ago.
Songs about hate
Loving your country
Loving war
Loving being German
Not being a Nazi
Got it
I understand your thoughts and I think you made a very interesting video, it's helpful.
The best part is the end when you talk about the danger of certain situations in the music: the extreme nationalism, the supremacy thing, the glorification of war... this is dangerous, always. And that's why a lot of people can't handle the BM scene, because this is not always said. Yeah, BM is about hate, but it should always be methaphorical, or at least if expressed "physically", in a non criminal way (basically: create a band).
Thank you Farvann, your insight is refreshing. Long time viewer. Just wanted to spread some love. Vielen Dank!
This video is very important for the Black Metal scene. Finally someone with a big outreach in the community who talks about this topic in a very mature, understanding and non-biased way. I do not listen to any NSBM bands, nor I ever will but I absolutely love the music of Burzum and Deathspell Omega. In both cases, I've seen very uneducated people say that those bands are NSBM. No they are not. Read the lyrics. You need to separate the artist from the art itself. I really hope that this kind of notion becomes absolutely mainstream in the BM community.
This is already the mainstream POV in the BM scene. The ones that call every band NS are either terminally online losers (for example: RABM subreddit) or scene tourists. They’re not to be paid any attention to.
@@ShayolGhul88 I've had some personal gripes with that subreddit ever since I started becoming way more open-minded when it comes to what to listen to in black metal. I used to be like them, but ever since I realized that you're gonna get some shit on your leg no matter what with some of the best acts (metaphorically speaking), I've stopped giving a crap about the musicians behind certain projects. Made my life a whole lot easier.
Deathspell Omega is far too busy dabbling in the metaphysical plane to care about earthly matters like human politics anyways.
@@wheelsofmercury tell that to mikko aspa with his relations to Northern Heritage and the alleged child p0rn0graphy distribution. it's all fun and games to make artists seem like the walking equivalent of the lyrics/themes they write about, but I will never again support a band that has an alleged abuser in their ranks. I don't f_ck with Roman Polanski or Michael Jackson either, btw, for that exact same reason. It's kind of simple really?
@@FingeredCrosses Oh, I know Aspa is a horrible human being and what British people would call a "nonce" (hence why I sometimes nickname him "Ass-butt"). But I just focus on the music which happens to be top-quality stuff IMHO. What musicians do behind the scenes is none of my business; I'm just here for their music. But if you don't want to touch DsO or Clandenstine Blaze because of Mikko, I can understand that. I was the same way as you for a very long time.
That also conflicts with me like you have Bands like Nokturnal Mortum or Graveland etc... which are labeled nsbm, although there lyrics are about pagan stuff, heimat history and warriors ov old.
I suppose a rebellious youth makes you say stuff with like at the time seems cool but will grow out in time.
Nokturnal Mortum got thrown into the "NSBM label" due to Necrist and a Certain song in it.
@@darkoz1380 and maybe because they played the biggest nsbm festival in the world? Asgardrei festival rings a bell?
@@GENERALSTRIKE14N Maybe because they aren't allowed at any other live events due to the same long ago disavowed track?
NM have some strongly antisemitic lyrics, not only on "Necrist". Check out "Weltanschauung" or "The taste of Victory"😬
I always say, if you can’t listen to something without feeling influenced to take the art literally rather than absorb it for it’s value and view it for its artistic quality, you aren’t a person who has a solid foundation to form a convincing opinion. Those kinds of people are easily persuaded by propaganda and completely miss the concept of artistic expression all together.
5min and 15 seconds in and I fully agree with you. Your English is beautiful! I'm sharing this with the ppl I have confrontations with about this topic. ✌️
I feel like writing about how much you love your country is really cheesy. It's mostly on the border of right winged or even extremist thoughts. It's nationalism that is also one important part of right winged thoughts. There might be some bands that are writing about how much they love their country and do not mean it in that way. But still it is a topic that is always suspicious.
And Burzum might not be classified as Nsbm. That only depends on definition. But the point should be, that if you know some musician is a Nazi, you might not want to support that musician as a person. No matter if the music is about racist topics or not. If you listen to music in times of streaming, even listening is support. It helps the music to spread and gives the musician attention. It always depends on each case and your moral values, what you want to or don't want to support. And as a music lover it's even harder, if the music is good, but the musician is a racist. There's no easy solution to the question of Artist/ Artwork connection and following responsibility for listeners.
thank you i was getting so tired of seeing stupid fucking comments. finally some sanity
Do you think black metal bands whose members hold nationalistic and even racially prejudicial beliefs pose an existential threat to the current global (or wherever you live, national) order?
The only way one could answer that question in the affirmative in anything close to good faith is because such bands and the people who comprise them, as well as the X number of people who might have yet to be exposed to them but be sympathetic to such views is due to the severity of censorship and indeed in some cases criminalization of even displaying NS or NS-adjacent views: the more fervently something is deemed taboo, the more alluring and seductive it becomes.
On the other hand, maybe it's good that NSBM, RAC, etc. bands are censored the way they are, along with the sentiments they represent; it only adds to sociopolitical division and racial, religious, and ethnic disunity, which in turn fans the flames of those who see in their lives, wherever they are, increasingly totalitarian top-down imposed moral strictures which lie in direct contradistinction to Natural Law and thus breed anti-establishment contempt. In a word: accelerationism.
88.
Wether you agree or disagree I think no one has a right to critiize an NSBM band while listening to goregrind bands grunting about r@pe and ped0philia.
Demons ripping people and anarchy is fine but nationalism and reality is too much for these british cigarettes
Or rap songs about killing people and treating women like shit
But grind bands are joking and not serious, nsbm is cringe and pathetic
@MetalKeith666 yeah and that's why grind core is for posers.
@@TheLonesomePagan. Black metal is for posers 🤡🤡 pathetic
I think the intention and the context matters too. When a Band criticise or mocks Islam or Judaism in the same way like Christianity and the lyrics are a fist in the face of their fairytale ideology, it is the same. But it is a difference when Bands mix religion with a specific kind of origin/blood/ethnic group, this what ns Bands often do. I know a lot of bands that already have mocked or criticise Islam or even Judaism in their songs, some of them are well known in the metal scene, and no one ( with more than five brain cells) would call this bands ns or racist. Beside that, it is really stupid when people consider ideologys like religions as race.
Absolutely agree
I just came across this video and i think you are avoiding the point. You are separating music, lyrics and the people who wrote the lyrics. But the fact is NSBM is a not even a music genre, but a political movement, that projecting their ideology through music. Like nazi punk for example. So basically saying the music of a racist, with non racist lyrics make him no NSBM does not make sense. If a guy talking about loving his country but stated he is not racist and the other is literally showing their xenophobia with the same lyrics, guess what ? This is NSBM because the idea behind is gathering people to a political ideology, no musical meaning here. Don't get me wrong, we can all appreciate a piece of art, but not knowing the goal of the author will just let you unaware of the author's intention. It won't make you a nazi if you listen to them, but you have to be honest about the musical goal, which is not musical in fact, but political.
Concerning NSBM directly, in France there is a pretty solid fan base of NSBM. This is a real problem because they try to come into mainstream festival to spread the ideology, not to just "play music". More and more venue book some of artists and "normal" people go to the shows not knowing the intention of this kind of bands. I found myself surrounded by nazis at a gig just because the event "looks cool" and i like some black metal. So there are choices to make when we promote artist and people need to be aware of their real intentions.
You said something, that in my opinion is totally wrong: "politics and black metal are pretty much incompatible". Man really ? This movement came from a political ideology and it was not even a musical genre at the beginning. It was anti society and the place of Christianity in the norvegian society. Buring churches was not political ? Seriously this is one of the most political genre i think. It's true today it's mixed with some mythology and even evil fantasy, but as we concider true black metal, it is definetely political. Blasphemy is political, human hatred is political, loving nature instead of big cities with a lot of people is political of course ! But in general every metal genre is and was always political, i think metalheads really need to be aware of that.
Anyway i hope i was kind enough and you're gonna read this comment, your channel is cool so i hope you do not feel offended. Just be carefull sometimes, it looks like you are giving argument to justify a stinky political movement ;)
Only serious person
First based comment i read here
I completely agree with this, I feel like ppl in the comments are failing to see the point when they say "oh, we should treat n4zis with respect" and yadda yadda yadda, like yeah, they're human beings too, but they're still hurting others at the end of the day and trying to respect a genre that doesn't bring anything useful to the table but obsolete beliefs seems useless to me. Someone's rights end where the other’s begin, imo. Also, I wonder how many people defending the genre or ns ideologies/sympathizers are actually affected by it...
A question to ask is: why did, at a certain point in the black metal scene, the NSBM had to be BORN? Answering right at this question automatically answers why it EXISTS the NSBM as a genre
Idk how to interpret your question, but to me, NSBM is born because, well, some nazi likes black metal or, probably if it gives a militant hard strongmen vibe like all nazi wants
Hope that clear up ig
@@atouhoufan607 not entirely true, I mean, there could have been some "sick" fanatics or very stupid and ignorant people, but that wasn't the trigger. then a good dose of emulation also began
@MarcoVidharrMalinverno honestly, I could not care less about the politics of people. All I want to do is listen. Hell, most of the NSBM are from ukraine (I think), which I can't understand. But is your opinion
@@atouhoufan607 give a listen to the NS from Russia, US, Canada and Mexico for example
@@MarcoVidharrMalinverno never expected Mexicans to have NSBM
This was a very cool take on the „how to separate art from the artist“ take and I get your point. I respect your point. I am still not sure on how the Scene should react to active BDSM People. Like - If I were in a Band with a Label Contract and that Label would also start to sell BDSM Shit (And yeah, it is shit, even if the music might be good) - I would ask the label very politely to stop it or loose my support and gain an enemy. Because…. I am as misanthropic as the next guy, but at some point u just wanna be left alone. And those nazi folks will never do that. Their ideology is like a brutal and inhumane mind-virus that will never stop at „its just music“ and so they make themselves and enemy of mine. And I am usually very tolerant but my kindness ends very hard when there are people disrespecting borders and bringing actual toxicity. Then I fight back. Hope u get my point. And with fight I don’t mean violence (well, If some nazi on a concert means to fight then he might do that but don’t expect me to be nice about it. I know how to fight and break bones if needed. I just don’t want it.). I mean boykott, vocalize your opposition and act accordingly. I want everybody to be redeemed, If they are honest about it.
Disclaimer: Yeah, I am German. I disrespect all extremist political views. Because its dangerous. I visited some places in Germany you don’t want to visit because its horrible. And not the good „oh that pcgame made me jump“ horrible, the actual horror. I hate nazis. I hate everything they did. And some things are unforgivable. Calling yourself a nazi, an extremist right wing who … if you boil down their views - wants to kill, then … that’s bad. That is what an enemy is made of.
How long until Farvann has to delete this video? I know Wyattxhim deleted his a while back.
haha we'll see
do you know if there's a reupload anywhere? I didn't get to watch it.
He won't
@@djsigmann I don't think so....
@@Zmora666 And he shouldn't! It promotes discussion.
Very hard topic to discuss…
Extrem tolles Video! So schön nachgedacht und einfach ruhig erzählt. 👏🏻
So, you are not an NPC at all...
Huge respects just for standing in front of thousands of viewers and telling your opinion.
If neonazism is a "dividing" topic in the black metal community, then Im proud of not being part of this community.
Exactly 😭😭 how is extreme racism dividing for people? Do they have no empathy?
Good that means the gate keeping is working
It got to the point that people think that "nationalism" = Nazism, which is actually insane to think about
I like to think in a very libertarian way, if you converse with ""extremists"" you will find out they're human too, and will converse too. The problem is that our modern world will silence the "right wing" and the left wing can do whatever it wants, it means these isolated right wing people will not be able to converse as much, because they got banned they will talk to same minded people, and get more "extreme" when if these people were left alone and could converse they would more likely be non-extremists, ofcourse not everyone, but i guarantee alot will calm down (i've seen it in person, with either "left or right") the problem now is leftist extremism is promoted and "conservatism" is being called out as FASCISM, we both need liberals and conservatists to be able to run a society, both are diferent minded type of people, i identify like Farvann, with both, i hate identity politics, to say "YOU ARE THIS, YOU ARE THAT" we are all humans is what it should be, not " IMA LEFTIEEE OR RIGHTIEEE"
national socialism is literally a fancy way of saying of nazi
Nationalism is good nazism of hitler is sovinism
I consider myself a far left nationalist. The reason people think that, is because so many groups that brand themselves "nationalist" wave black suns, totenkompfs, and hate jews and immigrants. They're not really nationalist's but they brand themselves as such, so its muddied the word.
Well most nationalistics are racist and Nazis no matter the country
This was a very risky video to do yet it ended up being really good 😊
People have the freedom to feel and listen to whatever they want. Hower, people also have the freedom to get their ass beat for insulting or disrespecting another. That goes for anyone and everyone.
Bestes Video, um den Sachverhalt mal klarzustellen. Dicker Daumen nach oben Farvann. Weise Worte zum Ende.
I think hate and war are part of being human and expressing it in music or the arts is a good way to express it. Isn't the purpose of art to convey an emotion? And when you like a song, you like it and that's it. It's just music.
Thank you!
I was beginning to wonder if anyone else was aware of the actual purpose of music.
I listen to NSBM and RABM. Perfectly balanced... as all things should be. :)
So you are just a nazbol
@@virtuaplayer7234 🤣 hell nah they are cringe as hell
As Germans we have a completely different awareness of the whole Nazi history. In contrast to other countries, that part of history has been dealt with reasonably, but still there are people who are not intelligent enough to draw their conclusions from it.
For me it is absolutely incomprehensible why one can in any way like to support such music. It is simply sad.
Yes black metal has a lot to do with negative emotions. But you can also process negative emotions without specifically discriminating against population groups.
Black metal should never be politically motivated.
Snø og granskog er heimsleg...
After this video I fell like the reason, honesty and heart of the humanity is still beating. You're a good example of it. Much love Farvann.
Ein sehr gut formuliertes Video und sehr differenziert. Ich wünschte mehr Menschen würden so denken
I'm a child of the 60's and yet I have never heard anyone mention before that 'hate takes no strength' and 'hate is easy' ... good insight there Farvann.
(No doubt people have mentioned it before... but it was new to me...)
Uhm. Have you watched the Original Star Wars movies? The entire franchise is built upon that.
@@Mp57navy yes, when i was 8 for the original... Maybe i was too young for the message? :)
There's that famous Smiths lyrics: "It's so easy to laugh, it' so easy to hate, it takes strength to be gentle and kind". I was waiting for Farvann to quote it!