Cash Grab or Cool Collectible?
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Mana Vaults have arrived, gone on ebay, and SOLD - but are people just buying into the hype?
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#MTG #SecretLair #Fallout 
Игры
I dont have gotten my either. "Your order is estimated to ship on Shipping begins May 22nd."
Since recording, editting and uploading I have learnt that NO ONE in Europe has their copies yet. We have a later release/dispatch. And thus, this price HAS to fall once Europeans start opening theirs.
"Has to" is a strong statement. I just doubt the European fraction of the MtG market is so significant as to make an impact on the "US/global" price.
@@TheDarkElder looking at the fact that cards are often way more expensive in the usa makes me doubt it.
When secret lairs were announced as being temporarily available with one time arts, a couple of people commented that they were a pseudo-reserved list. This is just the first time we've seen an RL like spike with one occur.
universes beyond as a whole is basically a new reserved list, wotc probably isn't going to reprint most of the cards because they're using licensed ip and there's way too many to reskin
It blows my mind that people are cool with WOTC being able to artifically control the number of Direct to consumer "Chase" cards that will be available to players based on orders. If lootboxes legally have to list the percentage of your chance of getting a certain rarity of drop, then Secret Lairs should too. It's literally gambling at that point that WOTC has an invested interest and ability to fix the percentage of cards that actually get to people since they know the number of orders.
That just seems ridiculously shady to me. Especially if early reports from people unboxing them are to believed, Mana Vault definitely isn't 1 in 3 chance of being received.
Get proxies. Ali-Express has them and they're fairly decent.
I think retroactively making the Masterpiece frame THE Kaladesh art frame was indeed a misplay considering it's first appearance as chase, special case cards. They could've easily made one that was different yet still sufficiently Kaladesh.
Same with the Amonkhet and Mystic Archive frames from Strixhaven. They're not the "Plane frames." they're the "Chase frame treatment" frames but Wizards changed them to be the definitive frames of the planes, probably to save money on designing new frames.
I hated this so much, TF they doing slapping bolas banners on a post-bolas Amonkhet's Samut? and if we're getting more invocation borders where's Nicol Bolas the Ravager reprint with invocation frame? Also the black and white art precursor for [Ultimate] AKA Return to Tarkir got me knowing a bunch of dragon shit I'll want is going to be better looking as a regular foil and the extended or borderless potential will be squandered to bad black and white cards.
Vault Boy Mana Vault should have been the chase of the Fallout Collector Booster.
They shifted from Reserve List to Reserved Art (on highly managed reprintable cards). Players get game pieces collectors get to set money on fire. They pulled this same trick with Mana Crypt in Caverns of Ixalon....use a CEDH lottery hit to sell collector packs.
Last week I recieved my winter drop so I don't expect it for 4 months haha... living in the UK sure is great with the new secret lair model to make them ship "faster"
What the heck I haven’t even received the Sheldon’s Spellbook, how did this secret lair get to people before that one????
Sheldon's spell book was the last secret lair sold print-to-demand instead of limited print run, because it was a charity lair and what Sheldon would have wanted. The fallout was sold post-printing "until sold out" as will be the standard going forward. As such, Sheldon is shipping in {June?} But fallout shipped immediately
I opened one of these Mana Vaults in the Vault Boy / Stax secret lair, and am trying desperately not to think about what it is selling for. It has a home in one of my commander decks, and I am happy it is actually being played.
You're stronger than I. I would've sold it, bought a playset of Mana Vaults, and pocketed the rest.
@@majestyzx9081 stronger no, more foolhardy most certainly. I just like fallout _and_ commander bling too much.
Yeah you could sell it for enough to buy more boxes@@704Sypher
Across my playgroup, out of 30 secret lairs that were ordered between us, 23 wastes, 7 codex shredders. The LGS discord group I’m in was filled with complaints that no one got any. It’s pretty absurd, I’m a huge fallout fan and I was hoping to get one :c
glad to see you're calling universes beyond cards what they are, a second reserved list. keep up the consumer advocacy!
Collectors are pandered to so hard by WotC, players be damned.
@PlesentKenobi do you think they will reprint One Ring as the non LOTR card or this will be harder to get the further we move from the initial print ?
I was very bothered by the price and i still hate the way they did this they should have just made it a guaranteed bonus card.
People could have bought a lot then and sold that card to make a profit back on their purchase with the other cards as gravy.
I feel like with Godzilla they solved the universes beyond problem, and it's driving me crazy that they're continuing to print mechanically unique cards that another company has an IP claim on, and the ability to prevent reprints.
I agree - Wizards has the tendency to push hard on working concepts until they break. Hence: more specialized art/style from Universes Beyond on desirable cards to make them into chase version for fans/collectors. See e.g. the serialized Sol Rings from LotR. Later, Marvel also offers a huge variety of "special items" or characters to use as skins/alternate art etc. It will be used for sure to push sales.
I got the mana vault. I wasn’t chasing it but I’m happy I got it.
all i got to say is yo ho ho printer go go go
Hope you pull one, boss
I got two Wastes and one codex shredder
Same.
Same here as well.
Same, bright side is I plan on getting 15 to replace my wastes in my eldrazi deck
I picked up the bundle of 3 lairs, but didn't pull one. I'm a huge fan of Fallout, so I was really hoping to get one for my artifact deck, but I'm not gonna pay $800+ for a card. I would maybe do $100, but certainly not more.
I think the people making the contracts for the UB cards are probably doing what they can to make the cards as available as possible. However no company is going to issue a perpetual license, or even a long term permissive one to make money off the back of their IP without that costing an arm, a leg and a number of first born children (my thinking here is because the licensee doesn't *need* wotc to push awareness of their brand, it's wotc that wants them). As much as folks can complain about the issues of Rick Grimes vs Gandalf looking stupid I think that the real issue is the external license for these cards not being infinite and availability/reprints being off the table outside of maybe some key cards to get a Universes Within version.
I mean the generic cards from those sets can get new art. Its the named characters that’s the issue.
I'm sure that Wizards wrote the contracts in such a way that allows them reprint cards indefinitely without the trademarked/copyrighted elements, which for many cards is just art and flavor text, which are changed for reprints all the time, UB or no UB. Like, a lot of cards have names that are instantly recognizable within their IP, but also purely generic. Say "Encumbered" from Fallout or "Don't Blink" from Doctor Who. It's a bigger problem with named characters/objects, but unlike the reserved list, they can make functionnaly identical versions of those.
Will every UB card get reprinted? No, but not every normal cards get reprinted either.
Fucking nutty. I couldn’t even buy this secret lair I really wanted it but shit was sold out so fast
2:20 Alpha and Beta are over $2k.
If the new reserved list is unique versions of otherwise accessible cards then hell fucking yeah.
As an American I just got my secret lairs in today shortly after this video was uploaded.
You can get a playset of unlimited Mana Vault for less... Think I'd go that route.
On the topic of gambling: it would be fine if it wasn't betting stuff from the pool of made up numbers that people exchange for food, but alas
There will always be buying hype on release. After those with enough disposable income are satisfied and prices can drop to settle, now this isn't a item for me. Kaladesh is my chase one still, but that is in the future if there isn't a more want card for me in the market.
Cool, I like the art on these. Time to go print one at the same quality for ~20 cents depending on how big my order is. Gotta make another order soon anyways. I want another $2500 worth of cards so I am gonna print them and this for $60.
I don't need to buy from Wizards if they don't want to sell it to me themselves. Instead just being gambling.
I like having chase cards like this, I stopped buying packs and generic art singles are really affordable.
hol’ up. did he not know about the shadowborne apostle chase rares? Chase rares in secret lairs have been going on for a while.
Why would this mean I didn't know about those, when I spoke explictily about them in the last video?
@@PleasantKenobi ah my bad, I haven’t watched that one yet. 😀 Carry on….
Honestly, I'm okay with pseudo-reserve list card versions for specific art treatments for the collectors out there. But only if it also comes with reprints of basic versions for people to play with. It seems like that's slowly starting to happen with WotC including Bonus Sheets in sets now for more expensive cards. Definitely one of the few good things Hasbro has allowed WotC to lower the price of the game. Hopefully this trend continues and playable versions keep getting printed to lower the price of base playable card versions.
Lower the price of the game? Have you seen box prices lately?
I don't think it would be such an issue if these were print-to-demand. I think the issue is it was a very limited run of a highly popular IP crossover with a highly desirable chase card. That seems quite predatory to me. I think WotC want people to buy as much of these Secret Lairs as they can without giving them a window of time to consider the value they'll likely receive. Pure FOMO at its worst.
I am very interested in finding out what the odds of getting one is?
I was wondering how they got away with selling these in Europe without explicitly stating odds. Isn't that like...turbo illegal in the EU?
@@704Sypher I think its just a 1 in 3, cus you get 1 of 3. But then again they kind of think about the secondary market so if one of the card is insanely expensive maybe the odds are lowered for the mana vault
1:11 so like $20?😂😂
Vault 13 is a wild choice. If you know fallout lore it’s hilarious.
I've played fallout 1 and don't see the funny part. I think it is on flavor though
@@notapplicable6985I guess we have a different sense of humor than 🤷♂️
@@davidhowell1415 ye, I still like the card tho
@@notapplicable6985 yeah, I do to.
Can you make a deck only fallout cards??
Yes. They sold 4 of them.
I think these will stay at this price, as the likes of the LOTR's Sol Rings have kept there value well and they have been out for nearly a year.
And to be that guy, alpha Mana vault is more expensive
Never bought Secret Lairs and WotC is just making sure I never have a reason to buy one
I wonder if it's price manipulation by MTG investors
This was the extra card in a lair?
Have a listen to the video.
Be a shame if I just bought some proxies that are the exact same thing for less than a dollar each.
Based
Yup, as always no single mechanically unique card should ever be on a reserve list (including all the ones that currently are) but unique frames? Rare limited edition art? Sure, that's fine and also helpful because it keeps pressure off the main old/collector's item stock from being played.
In other words, reprint original dual lands so the current ones suffer less deterioration. It's not like Alpha or Beta Birds of Paradise suffer a drop in value caused by BoPs being reprinted every once in a while.
I did not get the mana crypt in my lair! So sad! 😢
Alpha and Beta Mana Vaults are considerably more expensive than the Masterpiece one
Yeah. I must have been tripping balls when I made this video. Getting Vault mixed up with Crypt in my head in terms of its printings.
Annoyed at myself for thay.
@@PleasantKenobi sorry to be that guy! I don't think it takes away from the messaging of your video though. I mostly agree with you.
So is WotC going to see this and say "People really want these randomized cards, let's add more and more to Secret Lairs to drum up more interest and open it to UNLIMITED ORDERS PER PERSON." to take advantage of their playerbase with Chase cards in a direct to consumer product (which sounds less like Chase and more like a fixed Lottery), or are they going to see this as bad for the game and just print the cards as a secret lair like they've literally always done until this point?
Never understood the point of paying that much for cards that you're not going to play with. Even if you DO play with them then it makes even less sense to pay that much.
Insert literally any other collectible in the same category?
And they have the audacity to charge shipping lol
All secret lair art should be sudo reserve list, it's a super premium product. Limited quality and unique random bonus cards possibly worth a good amount should be the standard for those products.
Personally, I don't mind this. You fundamentally are getting what you paid for: a Fallout Secret with a set of guaranteed cards and a bonus of some variety. The "bonus" card is exactly what it is: a bonus. You aren't paying for it per se. Outright buying the Secret Lairs in hopes of pulling a Mana Vault is downright silly. You should buy these with the expectation that you are not getting a Vault, and if you do, well great, that's some nice luck you got there.
I mean... in all honesty.. did anyone expect anything else? WOTC is the easiest company to figure out.. Whatever is the worst decision for the player base - thats the answer.. It was an impossible to get carrot that was dangled in front of people and the sad thing is sooooo many people were fooled by it.
Executive out of touch corpo types. All they care about is green line go up. They don’t care about the game or the players, only our money. Execs at hasbro, games workshop, and almost everything else right now seem to get off on sucking the soul out of everything we love.
Gambling is seen as "bad" in the US because it's actively advertised, sometimes to predatory standards even towards minors. America is a land of adverts and consumerism and that doesn't stop at gambling.
Not saying that gambling is INHERENTLY wrong, just saying how it's viewed the way it is in the US.
"Is it worth it?"
You're talking about a square of cardboard with some ink on it being priced at nearly a grand in US dollars. _OF COURSE_ it isn't worth it.
It is a rectangle I'll have you know but not a square!
@@jankreitzscheck9914 Close enough for a wildly overpriced bit of cardboard, haha.
This is from someone who busted out his old decks and found out that Doubling Season is now roughly $50, and Akroma's Memorial is $30.
MtG has only gotten even more stupid for pricing since I stopped playing 17 years ago.
@@leadpaintchips9461 Fair 😅
I hope this crap goes down, need 1 for my fallout card binder and not paying that much
People are dumb, paying more than old rare mana crypt should only be for the desperate fallout fan, and personally vault boy on a magic card makes my soul bleed so hard you can see the hourglass manifesting IRL
You included.
first?
🥈
No.
Reserved list cards can't be reprinted with different art, Mana Vault can and will be.
Don't willingly miss the point. Makes you look like a tit.
crypt 😂
gambling and games of chance aren't inherently wrong, that said the gambling industry, which includes "blind boxes" like mtg booster packs *is* inherently evil
Can you explain to me, clearly, how boosters are inherently evil?
@@PleasantKenobi I cannot because boosters aren't inherently evil, their use by corporations is. I may have phrased my point a little poorly before so let's try again and with more explanation.
WotC's gambling mechanics, originally with booster packs, now with secret lairs, and mostly centering on "lottery cards", are evil.
This is not because getting/trading/selling packs/bags/boxes with unknown to the buyer contents is inherently evil.
The issue is that to profit from this gambling activities companies, in this case WotC, use manipulative tactics.
People assume that the idea "opening packs to not draft is a bad use of your money" is somehow self evident and that the people that do it anyway are doing so with full knowledge and unfettered faculties.
Both of those points are completely inaccurate.
Some people surely figured out that cracking packs is a bad idea, but most people had to be taught it by other players.
Then there's the second assumption, that every purchaser is doing it completely soberly and willingly.
It is "common knowledge" that gambling addiction is a disease caused by a person's poor self control or low willpower or w/e term you want to use. It is also completely inaccurate, and the past 20+ years of research on the topic disprove this conventional wisdom thoroughly. I am not a scientist and this is a youtube comment so I can't lay all that out in detail, however there was an episode of "startalk radio with Niel degrasse Tyson" that serves as a good primer on the topic, you can find it here
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I point out that the conventional wisdom is wrong because people commonly labeled as "addicts" are more accurately described as those that are genetically predisposed to being manipulated by the tactics of the gambling industry, which segues me nicely into neurodivergent folks, ADHD, Austism, and my own experiences with gambling manipulation.
The manipulative tactics used corporations to sell booster packs/loot boxes, character pulls, etc work on everyone but they disproportionately hurt neurodivergent folks because our neurochemistry is more sensitive/susceptible to these tactics, and also because our neurodivergence is erased by society. that second point is a tangent so I won't go into further detail about it.
I do not have a gambling problem, not because I don't gamble, but because I have managed to keep it from becoming a problem, generally though luck more than anything. Gambling is not something I enjoy, but I play games/have hobbies that have gambling aspects and I end up spending money say buying booster packs in MTGA, and I've learned not to beat myself up about it, but that doesn't change the fact that I would rather not be spending that money, and that the only way to completely shield myself from the predatory tactics companies use would be to basically give up every hobby I have, from Card games, to video games, because they all use these tactics these days. And I personally don't think it's fair that I be required to give up the few things that bring me joy because it's somehow my fault companies are being manipulative and evil. I hate everyone acting like corporate greed is somehow a failure of willpower on my part, and I'll spare you the rest of that angry bitter diatribe.
So no, I don't think booster packs are inherently evil, but I do think the ways corporations use them absolutely are, and I wish/hope/try to get more people to wake up to that fact.