Drama in the board games industry (Meeplegate)
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- Опубликовано: 4 июл 2024
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0:00 - Intro
0:46 - History of the word “Meeple”
2:29 - Hans im Glück trademarks Meeple
5:13 - History of the shape of the Meeple
8:04 - Hans im Glück sends Cease & Desist letter to small, independent publisher re their game Meeple Inc.
11:08 - Americans apply for US trademark of Meeple
13:16 - Support the indie publisher’s game Tabletop Inc!
14:04 - The meaning of “Hans im Glück”
Theme music outro by / @huddy_t
Links:
Support Maddie and Joe's game Tabletop Inc. (formerly Meeple Inc.) here: gamefound.com/en/projects/cog...
Meeple Wikipedia entry: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meeple
Texarcana article about the creation of the word Meeple: www.texarkanagazette.com/news...
Original forum post referencing the word Meeple, by Alison Hansel: web.archive.org/web/201011302...
Back of Carcasonne box, 1st edition (showing the word Followers): wikicarpedia.com/images/4/4a/...
“The word ‘meeple’ is being trademarked in the US in reaction to ‘cease and desist’ activity from Carcassonne publisher Hans Im Glueck,” BoardGameWire article: boardgamewire.com/index.php/2...
“When trade marks become generic,” German Patent and Trade Mark Office:
www.dpma.de/english/our_offic...
“Intellectual Property Law Targets the Term ‘Meeple’,” International Property Law Association article: iipla.org/intellectual-proper...
Europa board game featuring meeple shaped players piece in 1998: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/2...
Sumera board game featuring meeple shaped player pieces in 1999: boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/5...
Top Secret Spies featuring meeple shaped player pieces in 1984: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Sec...
EU trademark showing it was partially rejected: euipo.europa.eu/eSearchCLW/#a...
EU Meeple (word) trademark details: euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#deta...
EU Meeple (shape) trademark details:
euipo.europa.eu/eSearch/#deta...
Hans im Glück’s German Meeple trademark registration: register.dpma.de/DPMAregister...
German Trademark and Patent Office FAQ: www.dpma.de/english/trade_mar...
Hans im Glück folk tale on RUclips: • Hans im Glück - Märche...
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Support Maddie and Joe's game Tabletop Inc. (formerly Meeple Inc.) here: gamefound.com/en/projects/cogito-ergo-meeple/meeple-inc
You might want to think about pinning this comment so more people will see it. Impressive video, btw.
@@jamesmorgan1967 whoops, I thought it was pinned, thanks for letting me know!
isn't there something like a trademark, but marks something as public domain instead of owned by individuals or companies?
The fact that they didn't even come up with the word, but a random player did, makes this so much worse to me for some reason. That'd be like a trading card game trying to trademark a slang term that players come up with to describe common actions in a game, like milling
Yes! 100%! And when people first reported on this situation they erroneously credited Hans im Glück or the designer of Carcassonne with inventing the word, so that somehow made it okay. But they didn’t even do that! The audacity. Thanks for watching, Travis 🙌
Yeah, or a word like ‘tap’…
Oh wait.
Exactly this. They appropriated the term someone else came up with, started using it in rulebooks instead of their own, much less elegant term "follower", then they trademarked it, and now they're bullying small publishers for using it. Beyond disgusting.
@@JamesVWorld WotC does not actually police the term "Tap". It is just a case of no one in the industry wanting to take the risk to see if they would.
Legally, they can't, but they might try it and the US legal system sucks.
If a ‘slang’ term was used just for a certain game from one company, and not used it in any other, then I could understand jumping to make it a trademark term for your game. But this is different, since, as said, it was used by many other companies, other games, and other plays for those games independently, before all this, is what makes it ridiculous
I disagree about the boycott - the community has a responsibility to condemn behaviour such as this, and hitting big companies' profit margin is the only way to get their attention. There might be collateral damage, sure, but boardgame designers can also start reconsidering with which publishers they want to collaborate, and not affiliate with those who openly practice predatory and exploitative strategies.
Yes, I definitely won’t pitch any concepts to them, and I hope other designers boycott them too. It is unfortunate for the designers who already have games with them being caught in the crosshairs, considering our royalties are already ridiculously low.
The problem I see with that is sometimes these designers may not have a lot of choices in which publisher wants to pick up their game. What if as awesome as their game is, that is the ONLY publisher that will publish their game. That could dash their dreams of getting that great game out there.
I agree 100%. I feel bad for any designers of course, but there is absolutely no room for deceitful companies like this in the board game industry! It's one thing if a company is taking advantage of their customers, but THIS company is doing ACTIVE HARM to other board game publishers!!
If I was in the shoes of one of these designers with a game under Hans im Glück, I would be looking into all my options.
Maybe it's too cost-prohibitive to demand your contract be voided, but I'd definitely look over that contract with my lawyer.
Maybe you could argue this move is a breach of contract by Hans im Glück, or suit for damages to your reputation based on the association.
@@rileymcphee9429 Totally!
This is similar to Sony Interactive trademarking Kratos for their God of War franchise. The licensing board had no idea that Kratos was a person in the ancient Greek mythos. Writers like myself were forced to change character names in previously published works in order to avoid trademark violations. The trademark board admitted to "my bad" but also ruled that they were not into denying previously granted trademarks rights. They did, however, say that they would not renew the trademark to Sony Interactive when the current trademark expired in 2023. The entire registration was summarily cancelled on 07-17-2020 over Section 8 due to the persistent effort of writers who represented themselves. This does not undue the 6 years of bulling by Sony Interactive and no penalty was applied to Sony's willful misrepresentation. A similar case by Clark Smith was brought against the Mario franchise for use of Powerups. Smith was denied damages, but Sony's trademark on powerups was nullified.
Oh wow! Thanks so much for sharing this. I know if I dug even slightly deeper I’d find SO many more examples like this. It’s pretty wild and makes me not want to self publish even more than I already do, as they seem to go after small, indie designers/publishers.
...Was that last 'Sony' supposed to read 'Nintendo'? Sony doesn't own Mario.
Was Kratos a character in greek mythos?
Why the fuck can't trademark boards just.. y'know.. USE GOOGLE!!! to fucking see if a word was already being in use or not, and the situation it was being used in...
It's like if Nintendo decided to trademark Mario or Princess.. or Peach.. or whatever
@@culturia3555 yes he was
Proposal: people of Hans im Glück and similar corporations are corporate people, or in short Cor-people, shall henceforth be referred to as 'Creeple'. License to freely use given to all non-corporate entities of any industry for all perpetuity.
🤣 Perfect!
marketing/business people always seem to be the most soulless subhumans in any given situation ain't it weird?
When you try to take a shot at the corporate and accidentally necro an old slur for people who cant walk XD
@@RabidlyTaboo crips =/= creeps, dont worry
@@angel_of_rust, yeah, seemingly, but in reality more like normal people doing bad and creepy things who can then justify it with "I'm doing a good job, therefore I'm doing good things, making me a good person" . But since their job is first and foremost "making money for the stakeholders" and the KPIs are all about how much you benefit the stakeholders and you don't get demerits for doing shitty things nor is there a KPI for 'doing good things' or something like that, we ended up with a system that promotes doing bad things.
Ironically a company that makes such a big deal about a patent of a word has borrowed their very own name from a famous fairytale of Brother’s Grimm.
Those fairy tales are long out of copyright.
Public Domain though
How is this ironic? Do you not know what irony means?
@@jeffe2267 synonyms of ironically (Collins dictionary): paradoxically, absurdly, incongruously, ambiguously.
feel free to choose what fits best for you.
@@jeffe2267 The Grimm brother's also just collected fairy tales from all around France and Germany and claimed them as their own.
IP attorney here, you have the "right" to send a cease and desist letter to anyone you want for anything. The idea is that you can defend wonderful suits in court.
I mean, yeah, of course you can, but even you must see the issue of small indie studios to be easily bullied and intimidated. Classic Slapp.
Warner Brothers straight up holds a trademark on the name Tasmanian Devil, an actual real animal, and has previously forced the Australian state of Tasmania to pay them license fees for using the name of the animal from their state.
Meanwhile, Ugg trademarked the common Australian word "ugg" and then spent the last decade threatening Australian companies, including suing several into bankruptcy. The trademark board ruled that since its a common word in Australia but not the USA, common word protection didn't apply.
Trademark laws are disgusting
😮
Reminds me a bit of Futurama, where the "Mom Corp" adds are listing in the end in a fast voice-over: "The words, 'mom' and 'love' are all registred trademarks of the Mom Corporation"
I guess we've arrived.
See the problem is yall don't have guns
When the lawyer shows up and demands money, what are they gonna do?
@@davidbilich1708 Well, if I can have a gun, the lawyer can as well...
Well, if you make the lawyers go outside the cities, the farmers have shotguns...
I think a boycott is fair. I understand game designers will be collateral damage, which is unfortunate, but there's not too many other ways to express displeasure with a business's actions directly other than hitting them directly in their wallet.
I disagree about the boycott of HiG. The only way we can stop a company from doing evil (such as trademark trolling) is by hitting them in the pocket, the impact will be primarily to future releases and thus designers affected will be mostly ones that signed on after meeplegate - so if they sign on it'll be with the knowledge who they're dealing with unless they greatly neglect doing their due diligence.
The message we'll send by letting them get away with it is that they should do it more. In fact this is exactly what's happening in the tabletop miniatures industry, with a certain manufacturer (allegedly) harassing and patent trolling small artisans and abusing a loophole in EU laws to acquire a monopoly on products they have neither invented nor even manufactured.
Not to mention I personally just wont get nearly as much enjoyment out of a game if I bought it from icky people.
I definitely understand what you’re saying, and I won’t pitch any game concepts to them and I hope other designers also boycott pitching ideas to them too.
People should boycott Carcassonne because it's a terrible game.
Exactly. If they get boycotted enough, their designers will eventually also choose a different publisher. I hope they'll feel the consequences of their actions come Spiel 2024. I'd love to see their booth just empty. Meeple isn't even a German word! And what is there to gain by trademarking a word like "meeple" or "tapping" for that matter? It makes no sense! It's just seeing dollarsigns! It's disgusting.
Not only boycott-I had no idea this is happening. We should, and I will never miss the opportunity again, to ensure that any time HiG's products are even peripherally mentioned, the corporation is __eviscerated__ for exploitative lawfare over a thing they didn't actually invent but claim ownership of: The term meeple.
I agree 100%. I feel bad for any designers of course, but there is absolutely no room for deceitful companies like this in the board game community! This company is ACTIVELY HARMING other board game publishers!!
The American "protective trademark" is an interesting bit of misunderstanding IP law. As in Germany, in order to hold a trademark, you have to actively use the term/symbol as a sign of your company. As long as you do so, the trademark remains valid, but if you choose not to protect it then it lapses; as a result, allowing everyone to use your trademark immediately and legally makes the trademark invalid.
Copyright and patent, on the other hand, *do* work that way, and there are numerous examples (mainly within copyright) of people copyrighting material for the purpose of protecting its free use. Creative Commons is an organization specifically founded to help people do just that, and within software the GNU General Public License is a similar license designed to contractually provide maximum freedom by taking advantage of the preexisting system, in a very real sense using the system against itself.
IP law is absolutely fascinating, and absolutely broken.
Thank you so much for sharing this insight! You made a really good point about the trademark becoming invalid if everyone is allowed to use it. So that would mean Hans im Glück very likely won’t issue a statement saying everyone can use meeple, they would have to revoke the trademark… yes very interesting, and complicated, stuff! Thanks for watching and commenting 🙌
+
Exactly! Trademarks in the US must be vigorously defended. You cannot "open source" them like a copyright(left) or patent. You can only abandon them, for someone else to claim.
Also, trademarks are market specific -- a particular mark may indicate one company in country A and a different company in country B. Probably the best know example of this is "Budweiser". Anheuser-Busch owns that trademark in the U.S. while the Czech company Budweiser Budvar owns it in most of Europe. Those two companies have been fighting over the Budweiser trademark since the late 19th century. Also "Baldwin" is used in the U.S. by a manufacturer of bathroom accessories (e.g. soap dishes) and also by a manufacturer of pianos.
I don't know enough about copyright, but patents only half work that way in the US (not sure about elsewhere): In the US, something that has been 'publicly disclosed'', such as by posting to a social media site or publication at a conference, cannot generally be patented unless that disclosure was by an inventor or joint inventor or someone who obtained the information from them (interestingly it does not specify 'legally' obtained) and the disclosure was within 1 year prior to the effective date of application. So those wishing to keep an invention publicly available don't need to apply for a patent, they just need to go public with it before someone else does if they were the inventor. If they weren't the inventor then that just forces the inventor to file before they were maybe ready, but if you aren't the inventor I'm not sure why you'd be trying to do this anyway.
Great video and good research.
To answer the question "Why did those other games that used the word Meeple or the iconic meeple shape did not get hit by a letter from Hans im Glück?":
They had permission by HiG.
If you look at the (german, for some reason some of the english ruleboooks sometimes exclude that part ;) ) rulebooks for nearly all of the games you mentioned, you will find that they include a small line crediting or thanking HiG.
The noteable exception is Monsters & Meeples. And the reason for that is that Monsters & Meeples is not available in a german version.
So it is not that HiG is targeting small indie publishers, it is simply that the other publishers asked permission or were not relevant to the german market.
Cotswold Games on the other hand was offering a german version of Meeple Inc. AND shipping to Germany, thus clearly targeting the german market, requiring HiG to take action.
HiG is not trying to set a precedent, they are trying to prevent one. Because, as you mentioned in the video, inaction when knowing of a possible violation can lead to a weakening or even loss of the trademark.
To me there are two relevant points in this discussion:
A) Should someone be able to own a trademark for a (in the area it is applied) common term?
Personally a clear no from me. And I have not seen any comment stating a different opinion.
B) How much can we expect from indie publishers, especially in the legal department?
For me checking the IP status of my games title in the four languages I want to publish would have been a no-brainer. But maybe that's just me? What do others think?
All of this drama could have been avoided if HiG didn't have the trademark or CG had asked for permission, heck I even think that if CG had talked with HiG after receiving the letter all would have been fine.
However I completely understand them renaming and I also think it is the better approach in the long run, because it removes the risk of HiG possibly changing their mind later.
This!
Is that you, Hans Im Gluck?
Furthermore, this just CEMENTS the fact that their trademark should be invalidated entirely, everywhere. If they're allowing *everyone* to use it, then they're not enforcing their trademark. In addition, they're ONLY enforcing in German, and thus they ONLY had a right to issue a cease and desist against the GERMAN copies of the game, and not the game title which is not infringing anywhere outside of Germany, which would allow them to have a translated version of materials specificially for the German market that calls the game Tabletop Inc instead of Meeple Inc there, and nowhere else.
No matter what wafer thin justification is attempted, HiG are still not meeting the requirements of a trademark and their trademark absolutely should be invalidated - just like it never should have been granted in the first place. Getting a trademark for something invented by someone *else* is quite frankly a heinous abuse of IP law.
@@AmstradHero Ha, if I were HiG I have spent too much money on my own games in the past :D
But not being HiG I have absolutely no idea what the letter CG got actually said. All we have on that front is that HiG claims it was not a cease&desist and that it was harshly worded, probably more than it needed to be. Only the two involved companies know the exact content of that letter.
Other than that? Yes, IP laws suck! And I am with you 100% that they should never have gotten the trademark.
There are very good reasons why we have IP laws, but their implementation is often absurd. Let's eat an Apple (TM Apple) and THINK (TM IBM) about it ... or maybe better not.
And the most crazy thing? That HiG got the Trademark actually proves that what they did was the right thing to do.
If they can get the trademark that means the someone else could have gotten it. And that someone might have handled stuff very differently.
About 25 years ago here in Germany we had the case where the "Allianz Versicherungsgesellschaft" (Alliance Insurance) sued basically everything with "Allianz" in their name. Music Group? Sued. World of Warcraft fanpage? Sued. And so on. All over a completely common word. Want to guess how many of those few who actually went to court about this emerged victorious? None, all had to bow to the larger legal presence of the Allianz Versicherungsgesellschaft :(
With that background you might understand why HiG felt the need to protect themselves. And HiG achieved that, with the downside that they are now required by law to send pretty clear letters to anyone who might be violating the trademark.
Could HiG have handled this better? Yes, but so could have CG.
Should we be mad at companies who are forced to play this IP game or should we feel sorry for them?
@@patrickstangier9487 All HiG needed to do was to go "hey, we own this trademark. Please ask us to use it". But they chose to go down the cease and desist route.
Yes, we should absolutely be mad at them, for going after a small designer who can't defend themselves against this kind of unscrupulous behaviour.
@@AmstradHero The problem there is that german law requires a certain amount of effort to be put into protecting a trademark and a "please ask us" could be seen as not being enough (there we are again with the stupid IP laws).
Now I don't doubt CG when they perceived it as a cease & desist, but, as has been shown, this isn't something they have much experience in and HiG said it was not a cease & desist letter.
Neither of us has seen the letter, so I suggest we give both parties the benefit of the doubt here that what they say is true from their point of view until we can make an informed choice.
I'm not mad at HiG for sending that letter, because I understand that, however stupid it may be, it was something they were forced to do.
I'm not mad at CG for changing their game, I even think that is better for them in the long run (and even the short run considering the publicity they got from this).
What I am mad about is that, at least as far as I can tell, neither HiG nor CG at any point said "Hey, let's talk". They BOTH messed up.
I wonder if Hans im Glück has considered the Barbra Streisand effect.
I guess a lot of hobby gamers will not be buying Hans im Glück games anymore.
Side take-away ... IP-lawyers are under perverse incentive structures. Granting frivolous patents and trademarks create more work for them.
Yes let’s all use Meeple in our titles and flood the market with everything meeple and see what they do about that lol
@@PamWallsGameDesign Already getting to work on my new game The Meeplest Meeple in all of Meepletown!
I won't touch a Gluck game now, for sure. I've only been into games since a little over six years ago; I wonder that I never heard of this action in that time.
@@PamWallsGameDesign MeepamMeepallsMeepMeepign (ok that's as best as i could do without my brain shutting down)
@@travisbuschette8609 How many Meeples could a Meeple Meep if a Meeple could Meep Meeps?
Reminds me a Baltimore restaurant owner on Gordon Ramsay’s show. In the southern US, some people say “hon”, short for “honey”. As in, “Would you like more tea, Hon?”
The owner of “Cafe Hon” actually trademarked the word “hon” and then had the audacity to threaten legal action against neighbors for uttering the word in their establishments. All she accomplished was earning a nasty reputation and a dying restaurant. The lesson is, just because you CAN do something legally, doesn’t mean you should.
Oh that is WILD! My friend also told me some guy in the midwest trademarked the word Aloha and sent cease and desist letters for any businesses who used the word, including those in Hawaii! Some people really have the nerve…. Thanks for watching and sharing, hon 🙌
Yes! The Cafe Hon controversy was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw this video! According to Baltimore TV station WJZ's website, the owner later relinquished the trademark, saying "It was a business decision. It was a bad decision." This came after a few protesters gathered outside the restaurant and she got a lot of blow-back from the community.
Yet another example of just how flawed current IP laws are.
@@PamWallsGameDesign there was a a guy a long time back who trademarked the word Edge and was bit of a trademark troll with in the video game industry for a while until the US trademark office cancelled his trademark..
Candy Crush tried trademarking the word Candy and Sky TV tried trademarking Sky. Neither were successful IIRC but am unsure.
Unfortunately there seems be a bit of history of people trying to trademark common words.
wow that an idiot.. sadly I saw so many similar stories in the past :/
How to destroy your credibility as a publisher in 3 simple steps. These sorts of lawsuits will continue to grow as the VC money keeps trying to capitalize on and pour into the tabletop gaming market. The only reason that this would be worthwhile to them is if they no longer have any intent to publish future games as game designers are unlikely to trust them. Many of their games are co-published by Rio Grande Games, and I could see Rio Grande eyeing an exit to Asmodee, in which case owning this trademark could be a valuable pawn for that sale. No one will ever trust or work with them again.
Yes, I know I personally won’t pitch any concepts to them and I hope other designers boycott them as well.
I am a german gamer and would-be game designer , and have never heard from this before, and I am shocked. Hans Im Glück has always been one of my first stops at Essen, and now I feel like being friends with Lego executives... dirty . What is there to be won, other than being THAT guy on the block ?
Yeah I’m not quite sure what their reasoning or goal is….. except to make a lot of people angry 😅 Thanks for watching!
Meeple.
Yeah. I said it. I'm a rebel. Bring it on Hands I'm Glued
🤣 Try saying it three times in a row to see what happens 👀
@@PamWallsGameDesign I'm scared.
@@PamWallsGameDesign Meeple Meeple Meeple! come at me greedy hans! XD
I was reminded of the kerfuffle over Games Workshop going after the novel "Spots the Space Marine" by M,C.A. Hogarth because they say they owned the trademark for the term "Space Marine." It did not end well for them.
Thanks for letting me know about that, I hadn’t heard of it and looked it up. I’m so glad MCA fought back and that Amazon actually listened! Makes me wonder if Maddie and Joe had approached Gamefound about it, maybe they could have stepped in and helped…
For reference "space marine" was first used by Bob Olson in 1932 in Amazing Stories because it's just pretty much the obvious thing to call them since soldiers who attack from regular ships are already called marines and these are the same as that, except spaceships. Games Workshop first used the term in 1993.
You can get a trademark/patent/whatever approved, but if it comes down to it and it goes to court, the trademark/patent/whatever can be revoked/reversed/removed when it never should have been approved in the first place.
someone should file a claim
Omgsh the algorithm finally blessed me with the Board Game drama side of RUclips 😭
🍿 🍿 🍿
Hans im Glück is reprehensible. I understand why, but I wish they were pushed back against more. simply supporting the indie publishers is great, but its not enough. Hans im Glück needs some kind of consequence.
Maybe another hero (with money) will step in to challenge their trademark… 👀 Thanks for watching!
Great video!
I wonder what Asmodee will think of their partner? 😮
This was a great piece, illuminating the issue. Honestly, if I received a C&D from a foreign country, I'd probably frame it and not dignify it with a response...adorable, but no force under U.S. law.
I'm not a fan of large companies picking on small creatives in the field. Several years before launching what became a very successful KS in the nascent days of the platform, I reached out to discuss licensing for my product, which were component and card trays for FFG's Arkham Horror game. When they declined the license, I informed them that I was reaching out in anticipation of collaboration, not asking permission. In the end, I simply ran the KS as a set of component and card trays for any horror-themed game.
I'm glad that you're showcasing these types of games and the perils that can ensue. Our hobby is still young, which is why it's trying to deal with AI at the same time it's still quarreling over paid reviews and previews. In the years, ahead as the industry matures, hopefully it will do so with collaboration and warmth, and not through an army of attorneys.
I hope so too, Joseph! Thanks for watching and commenting 🙌
I think writing a really bad application for the Trademark in the US is a great idea. Just write one that makes sure to emphasize that you took the term from other companies, that it's commonly used, and that part of the benefit is that it's generic and you want the Trademark to it.
Then when it gets rejected, shrug and go "okay" and if they grant it to anyone else you can point to the rejected application to say "wait, why did you reject theirs and not this other person's?"
Yes, I hope that this is actually their plan all along… but it’s not clear. It seems like they actually want to get the trademark…. We will have to see, but I hope you are right!
Really important video with the seriousness it deserves, thanks Pam!
Thanks for watching!
Love the video. This whole ordeal has just been crazy. I love your insight on board game ideas.
Thanks so much, Ian! 🤗
This is behaviour worthy of Games Workshop.
What I don't understand is, in what way could the game as initially proposed have harmed Harm and Glock?
I'm sorry I'm lost at "Harm and Glock" 😭
@@khiarastales2091
I couldn't remember the spelling of the German company's name.
Given that they were holding a metaphorical gun to the head of the small game designer team, I made up a pun.
Sorry for the confusion.
@@pencilpauli9442 No it's okay it's a clever pun XD
I agree, I don’t see how Meeple Inc took anything anyway from HiG, like I said in the video, this isn’t a zero sum game.
You need to actively protect your trademark or you risk losing it
Great video! I’m a labor and employment lawyer so I can’t help with the technical side. This video has convinced me to cancel my U.S. trademark application for the following words: orthogonal, Ameritrash, kingmaker, and replayability. 😂
Tommy The Kingmaker! 😂 Thanks for watching 🙌
I'm not familiar with EU trademark law, but in US it's "must defend," meaning the fact that the Hans im Gluck isn't suing absolutely everybody else using meeples for the trademark breech would be grounds for dismissal of the trademark here. Unlike copyright, you can't defend trademark selectively under US trademark law.
Right?! That doesn’t make any sense to me! How can they say “Oh sure, Meeple City, Meeple Land and Meeple War are fine, but Meeple Inc?? No way.” Like, what?
We had this EXACT same issue with the word "Doodle" when the makers of Doodle Jump tried to trademark "Doodle". This is after the app stores had a "doodle" section. They got big and they thought they could roll everyone with Doodle in their app name. Gamers and devs rallied against them. We used the power of the collective voice. Not continuing to fight sets a precedence of acceptance. Doodle Jump eventually backed down after dealing with the blowback. Where is the "Free the Meeple" movement.
This is what the LEGO company started to do as well. Sue the small shops that import other brand bricks, to scare others from even thinking about selling it. Sad movement of corporate greed. I feel like they have run out of creative ideas.
Boycotting and aggressively using the word meeple (calling their bluff) is the only way to defeat this type of behavior.
It will be interesting to see if there is an influx of new “meeple” games or if this will scare enough publishers/designers to steer clear. I personally hope people fight back, but we will have to see…
Don't let big meeple win. Any game that accepts the patronizing approval path should also be shamed/shunned. All or nothing. I loathe single word trademarks that are in the lexicon of the area they are to be used. E.g., gaming etc. having felt the bite of this movement directly it infuriates me to know end when it happens. Meeple is a staple and in the zeitgeist of the lexicons in use... This is crazy. Screw big meeple.
Awesome informative video!!! Great job. It's wild that there's concrete evidence that shows an individual gamer coined the term herself, and then Carcassonne used that. And now here we are. So bizarre!!
Yeah it’s pretty wild! Justice for Alison! 😂 Thanks for watching, Derek 🙌
You are a True Treasure, I so Appreciate your posts, Thank You Pam!!
Omg! Thank you so much!!! 😭 😭 😭
What a sad situation. As a small, board game publisher my heart goes out to the publisher who was put through that. Thanks for posting such a thoughtful and intelligent analysis of the situation, and for providing such a great plan regarding how to help the little guy out, instead of attacking the bully, which might hurt those working with the company. What a great video!
Thank you so much! Yeah I tried to be as chill about it as I can 😆 And try to turn it into a positive for the indie studio, like you said.
I'm working on starting up a Local Game Store in our little town. I will not be carrying Hans im Gluck's products for the time being.
Actually the better option would be for the other companies to put pressure on them to drop the TM altogether because it’s not good for the industry. The other companies need to put the pressure on them not the customers.
What a fun watch--as I expected, and you showed more details in the case too! Great job 👏
Btw I've been subscribing Cogito Ergo Meeple's channel and following their Meeple Inc campaign for a while, and reading their update about "de-meepleing" for the first time just bewildered me.
Thanks Khiara! Yes when I first heard about it, I was like “whhhhaaaaaattttttt” It is so wild and ridiculous! I’m glad you enjoyed the video (you called I would make it!!) 🙌
Great video! I like it because not only does it shows you did research but you also voice your opinion and offer possible solutions.
Thanks so much for saying that! Yes, I tried to focus on how we could make the situation better rather than just complaining about it. Thanks for watching! 🙌
This is great "behind the curtain" material! I know how work-intensive it is, so I know you don't always have time to do it. But if and when you do, I'll watch it! 🙏
Thank you so much! I really appreciate this and glad you recognize the effort that went into this video. Thank you! 🙏
Thanks for making the community aware of this. I appreciate the time commitment especially from doing all of the research, and I commend the effort for getting primary sources. Keep up the good work.
Thanks so much! This one definitely took a lot more time than expected so thank you for saying that ☺️
Excellent, excellent work, Pam. And congrats on your Dice Tower award nomination!
Thank you so much! 🤗
This was very interesting and well-presented. Thank you.
Thank you for the research that went into this video.
I love the video, but as a slight addendum: the EU trademark was taken over into the UK, when the UK left the EU as part of Brexit. So, yes, there is a trademark in the UK that matches the EU trademark - which means it does NOT cover the toys & games category. So I would argue that they could still make their game, as they're not using "meeple" for one of the trademarked categories.
great job on this video. thank you for all your effort!
You are so welcome! Thanks so much for watching and commenting 🙌
Congratulations on getting such traction on your video - excellent reporting!
Thanks so much, Glenn! It’s exciting and also overwhelming 😅
I haven't played board games in many years but always keep a toe in the water as I find them interesting. I clicked on your video because of the word "Meeple". I always assumed the term was created by a player of these games and it was kinda accepted by the gaming community. I swear these companies have to realize they are producing products for a grassroots type of community. Some of it can't be commodified into "dollars/euros/whatever". Anyway, great and informative video.
I can't believe no other board game content creators are covering this. Not Dice Tower, not Brothers Murph, not BoardGameCo, etc. Their silence is absolutely damning. Evidence that most of these folks are in the pockets of Big Board Game.
We covered it on our channel! Albeit we aren't a big channel like the ones you listed.
Great video. I've been following them so it's really shocking!
Love the Hans Im Gluck name backstory btw. It such powerful message indeed, yea you tell them that.
Yeah I couldn’t believe it when I read the folk tale! 😮 So wild that that is what their name means. Thanks so much for watching 🙌
Thank you for this deep dive.
You’re welcome, thanks for watching and commenting! 🙌
This trademark saga has been fascinating.
I'm amazed at the coverage of it, this video is the second I've seen after one run by board and savior a week ago covering very similar points.
Yes I just saw his video too, we obviously went down this same crazy rabbit hole!
Very informative! Thanks for putting this together. Subbed.
Muchas gracias por tu gran trabajo.
According to the Rules of Heraldry, "a difference that makes no difference is no difference."
Thank you for this amazing work!
Thanks so much for watching, and commenting! 🤗
Great job with this video Pam!
You have convinced me to now trademark the terms “board game” and “boardgame,” “card,” “card game,” and “tradable card game.” Oh and the word “glück”. 😂
Excellent video. Thank you!
Thanks so much, Jim! :)
Kudos for the thorough and fact based presentation.
Thanks so much for watching, and commenting! :)
I'm no lawyer, but my limited understanding of US trademark law tells me their application doesn't stand a chance.
I don't understand how this patent benefits this business. Am I supposed to now only be interested in buying Hans Im Gluck products because I only want to play games where the instructions officially list pieces as Meeple(TM)?
If HIG was to trademark Meeples, they should have done it before it was included in dictionairies. This is just predatory. A good indication, if CMON objected to the trademark... I think this is food for thought since when CMON saves the day, they are the king of FOMO and predatory sales tactics.
The fact that a word was in general use doesn't mean it can't later identify a particular product of a particular manufacturer. Think of cars. Words like "mustang" "bronco" "focus" existed well before Ford started using them to identify their cars.
@@thomasf55 but the meaning of Meeple has never changed.
Good timing with a trending topic, congratulations on your most viewed video! Great job!
Thank you so much ☺️
There is definitely a history of people attempting to use intellectual property law benevolently becoming a poison pill. The thing that immediately leaps to mind is the original patent for insulin synthesis, which was intended to be to protect free access to it, but helped to contribute to a situation a hundred years later where pharmaceutical companies have found ways to game the patent system to extort vast sums from desperate diabetic patients.
Meeple Land came out after 2019 but HiG did not go after that because it was Blue Orange and they probably have deep pockets but this small publisher just backed down whereas they only needed to change the name in Germany or just not offer it in Germany. For the rest of the world they could have kept the name.
Yes and Meeple Inc likely only had to change their name for the German version, but chose to change it all together, I am assuming.
Awesome video, great job!!!
Thanks so much, Jake! :)
In Germany, we also invented the term Tier-Meeple. That means animal shaped boardgame pieces. Be aware!
And if not done already, someone need to trademark thier Beeple (Bee-Meeple)
Oh hell nah! That company is looking really bad now. The marketing team needs to change.😢
great video and very thorough research.
Thanks so much, Caleb! :)
On the matter of sending cease and desist to a different country, then as long as they ship to germany, then german law, and trademarks apply for german customers. This is a common misconception in international law that just because you are not in a particular jurisdiction that you are therefor not bound by their laws and can sell to their citizens under your laws but that's not how it works. You're always bound by both laws where you are, as well as wherever a buyer is buying from and in some cases, even where a buyer is a citizen of (as in, they bought it on a vacation in a different country, though this is quite limited)... But essentially, if they were selling to german citizens, then yes they're bound by german trademarks. As a seller, if you decide to use the dual naming approach (as in a different product name in one country compared to other countries), then you also have a duty to take reasonable measures to prevent users of the country in question to see any material from you under the wider known name. Basically you have to create completely seperate promotional material, all ads you run will have to specifically exclude that country for material in one name and you'd have to run a completely different ad for their name that only target that country and so on. Exactly what is covered under reasonable measures for this, really depends but most companies would not bother with it... Google tried to play that game with gmail, but even they buckled in 2012 and simply bought the rights to gmail in germany as well because they were constantly getting hit with fines for failing that reasonable measures standard. The original owner of the name in germany made way more money from google's infringement, than their actual service.
Wow! You did your homework on this episode. I know sooooo much about the origins of "meeples" now :)
Haha 😂 Thanks for watching! 🙌
“I’m a Merson and my name is Anakin”
Brilliant essay!
Thank you ☺️
Also "keeping your trademark active" just means that you use it, not that you enforce it against others.
Another great video and your hard work on the research shows! If the word is already being widely used, seems like a trademark shouldn't be allowed as it is already in use. I know that Velcro brand started a marketing campaign to warn people from stop using "Velcro" in place of "hook and loop fastener". If a word becomes the common use then the trademark can be lost, at least in North America I've heard. Another reason why Band-aid changed their commercial jingle to "Band-aid Brand" as to not lose the trademark.
Great research and analysis like reading a good long form article.
Thank you so much! Yes, it felt like writing an essay. I’ve been watching more “video essay” youtubers and enjoy the deep dives into different topics. Thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Thanks for letting me know about this. I'm going to let the other people at my board game meetup (and especially the two designers that attend) about this...
You’re very welcome and thanks for watching, and commenting! 🙌
why stop there
lets start trademarking individual letters
i want E
mom, i think ill be a bazillionaire
RE: Applying for the trademark in the Unites States, there is value in establishing a precedent of your application getting rejecting for prior art. Not sure how much the EU cares about US jurisprudence but there you go.
Great research, thank you.
You are very welcome, thanks for watching! :)
I think the phrase "if they ask nicely" was meant to be facetious, and available to those ignorant of the protection - i.e. they're not going to ding you after the fact.
Fantastic research and argument!
Thanks so much 😊
Intelligent and well-researched. Subscribed!
Thank you! 🤗
Thank you so much for this video. I was briefly aware of this but not realised how far it went.
Good job on a thorough research and clear explanation.
I wonder if there isn't a way to complain directly to the intellectual property Office. If enough people point this out, they might take it into consideration?
Thanks so much, Florian! And yes, I believe it can be challenged, but I will have to look into the exact procedure. I have heard it can be difficult to overturn in Germany.
IP is based on the country of sale and/or manufacture, so it would prevent sales in Germany.
THank you for doing this. It is ironic that the lawyers for this company still pressed on despite the EU ruling that as it applied to games/toys they did not have a position. Wouldn't efforts at enforcement then in the EU just get kicked out of court?
Thanks for covering this story.
You are so welcome, and thanks for watching and commenting! :)
Sad & salty behavior from a company after their successful. what a shocker. Thank you for such a good video talking about this subject. Very disappointing, but its what always happens. People with power leverage it over those with less. Its disgusting.
Never buying hans & glue again... period. Hard stop ✋️. Even if if they were to retract it at this point. Put them out of business and let more responsible business thrive.
Excellent rundown
Thanks so much 😊
Great minds think alike haha! I posted a video on the same topic and we both made the same point about HiG’s ironic origins-Fantastic video!
Oh no way! And here I thought I was sooooo clever to make this connection lol I’ll check out your video soon, I’m so glad you talked about this situation too 🙌
Wow, Pam that is some amazing content! When does PGNN (Pam's Gaming News Network) launch? Your presentation and Analysis is so professional and level-headed, not surprised but continually impressed. Thank you for putting all of that together 😮 in such a non-reationary fashion, trusting your audience to make up there own mind. 👏👏👏
As for Hans im Glück and Carcassonne, I remember a priest describing making a bad choice as like putting a drop of spit in a glass of otherwise cool refreshing water. Sure, it's still almost entirely cool and refreshing water but would you drink it?
For me, until this is cleared up, Carcassonne has some spit on it. 🙁
Come on Hans im Glück, make us proud!!💪
Thanks so much, John! I tried to not get too heated about it and definitely cut some things from the script 🤣 It was a good idea to write the script and film over several days to make sure I didn’t say anything I might regret. And so far, I don’t regret anything!!! The people need to know!! 😂 Thanks again, and that is a great analogy about the water 🙌
This is reminiscent of the generic Australian sheep skin boot called the ugg boot which was appropriated by a foreign company (ie. trademarked). This can nolonger be sold under this name overseas even though it is a term in that country as common as kangaroo (or beer).
As an inventor, I have many inventions I don’t share, as I know the chances are big it will be copied. I’m not chasing riches and don’t want to spend time securing my inventions, but I know others will. I don’t want others to run off with my inventions and worse, claim copyright and sue others for using it. In Germany you have automatic copyright on inventions if you have publicly presented it and have evidence of that. But I don’t live in Germany. So I hold some inventions to myself. I guess those who have money have won.😢
Well that is me not buying any HiG games until they backpeddle (they will) on this. F this kind of predatory nonsense, this is like the D&D malarkey all over again.
If I was a game maker, I would make a game called “Crush Lucky Hans”. Though the title sucks, you get my drift.
Interesting vid. I will never support, play, or recommend HiG games again, regardless of any future action they take. They are dead to me, permanently.
Pam, another great video. Thanks for shining a light here. So, has this experience given you any ideas for a game where everyone is playing an investigative journalist? :-)
Haha that could be fun! But it realistically would just be reading a lot of documents 😂
I think you miss the point of the US patent application.
If it fails, it can be used to discredit the German patent.
If it succeeds, it'll challenge the German patent, by which both would go down in flames on re-examination.
For the umpteenth time I hear you/anyone say "Work Replacement" and have a momentary thought of "that makes no sense, unless it's tongue-in-cheek" until I realize it was "Worker Placement"😅 In the spirit of 'meeple' perhaps we can call it a "meeplacement game"? 🤔