Im planning on reserving pixie for "pixie grappler" since i think that gets the main difference and unique aspect of the character in just the name. And the archetypes i believe youre referring to will be the "speed" character, since not only do some recent games label characters as such, but it is just clear and distinct while letting me open up the archetype to characters who play very similarly but do not have rekkas, like Vega and Taokaka.
I feel like calling rekka an archetype doesn’t really count because how rekka affects a character’s gameplan varies way too much. Kind of like saying strive Baiken annd annji are both counter characters because they both have a counter. Also what’s a pixie? I’ve actually never heard that term before?
@@chaselowell4567 The few times I've seen it used myself were in discussions of how balancing characters with higher/lower health doesn't tend to result in things being balanced. "Pixies" are low health characters with very high mobility: usually resulting in powerful neutral, mix-up, and okizeme. The difference from a "glass cannon" is that "pixies" often have relatively low damage.
@@TheAmberFang so millia in gg? insane mobility and setups but poor damage. Likely to win a lot of interactions but low reward for each individual interaction
I'm working on my own fighting game and the character I'm working on next is in fact: a One-Shot character! Its so hard to define since I couldn't think of examples other than Nago and Dark Pheonix, but this video has shown me more examples and given me a bit of a nudge in the right direction on where to go. And of course, you're always entertaining, so this was great for me!
One thing to note, in SFV after you finish a Vtrigger, you'll have no v meter for v-reversal or v-shift. So there's an actual a risk for Oro to put up the v-trigger and not KO the opponent To a certain extent, both SF5 and SF6 have mechanics that allow one shot playstyles
I do feel like both SF6 and MK1s rosters feel weirdly void of a true one-shot character though. Like Johnny Cage does have his hype meter, but he also doesnt lean too heavily on it and can easily wind up activating it as much as 3 times a round too. I know they're somewhat controversial, since they're effectively solely about "robbery". But it can kinda feel like a rosters incomplete without one.
Whichever madman at arcsys decided to make hakumen both a parry and a one shot character, thank you. Only character i can think of in an fg that insta kills you on your turn
@@DarumaFGC I would love to see a video on the mid-dispencers aka strike throw characters. While they're not an archetype I would love to see what you have to say about these characters since you extract exactly why people enjoy them and what's common about them.
@@mrblooper1994 there are some characters who don't wholly fit this definition, so its not airtight, but I think normally when people are talking about mid dispencers, they're talking about the same kind of characters people call "gorillas" and thats what my Brawler episode was about. Characters who have forward moving moves, that loop into basically infinite pressure, until they choose to go for an unsafe high, low or throw mixup. Simple mixes that are basically impossible to mash out of. There are still exceptions though, mainly in NRS games, which honestly can be so different they could have their own wholly unique ecosystem of archetypes. But its a little hard to see me covering that stuff at least in the near future. The MK content I made barely grew my channel at all and completely flopped. So it'll be a while at least till i revisit that idea.
Another great episode! Congratulations on this wonderful series!!! 🎉🎉🎉 By the way, as a grappler player it kinda triggers me how sometines these guys have better neutral than grapplers even tho they need to win less interactions to destroy health bars, but as long as one shot characters don't get to sf3 makoto level of degeneracy i'm fine hahaha
The planned video on what makes characters good will actually be about that topic. I think number of interactions needed versus difficulty of said interactions is a good scale. But youre right in that often, grapplers are laughably weak at both. Games are coming around to the idea though, FighterZ has always had top tier grapplers and i would definitely say Reiko is in the top 10 for mk1. I do hate when the grappler in a game is just outright not an option and unplayably bad
You know, this is a really good way of describing these characters. I often look for names for these sub archetypes, like in zoning there's a difference between physical/projectile/maybe even trap right? I've always loved stance characters but more the toolbox type, but didn't have a word for this type until now. great stuff
Yeah a lot of good fighting game knowledge is unfortunately just locked in players heads and we dont have language for, i hope to get a few more terms circulated into wider use over time.
Great video, as usual. This series is banger after banger! I personally would love to see a video about zoners just to hear an analytical and nuanced take on what they actually do. Most of the time all people say is "Zoners bad because it's cheap" but there is so much more to it than just throwing out fireballs. But I understand that your Archetype Archive exists to highlight less known archetypes so I'll just patiently wait. Maybe there's a specific subtype of zoning that could be deserving of it's own video at some point.
Im taking on shotos first, after a short break from archetype archive for the sake of variety. But after those the rest of the big 4: grapplers, rushdown & zoners will be covered, and subdivided into archetypes under them. I.e. projectile zoners and normal based zoners.
The 1shot concept has lead me to two characters: FGC: Qigong Master that can buff himself, Jam Kuradoberi-style, to 100% you with a 3-step Rekka or ONE COUNTERMOVE Short Novel: MaskHero 1-shot has such excessive power he analyses enemies before approach so he can unleash enough power to defeat them without creating a mile-wide crater of dust around them... *AGAIN* (They live hidden underground since the first time they "helped" ; nuclear coup averted, but now they need a new capital...)
I've been following your videos for a while and always enjoyed them, but I feel like this one does a great with clarity and in-depth yet concise descriptions. It shows the progress you've made when it comes to video production, my hat's off to you!
You've mentioned in the past you were considering doing a video on footsie/"punisher" characters like Chun-Li, is that still in the cards? Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it
Its on its way in season 2, needed a bit of a break from the archetype archive formula till 2024s in but itll come, broadening my horizons a bit in the meantime, got lots of half written or completed scripts ive been unable to touch for months till now.
I'm stomping in 10 months late to pout about the fact that you said Arakune has to earn it. Any hit into overdrive is instant curse. I hate the bug with a passion but overdrive is worse.
Yeah I think its kinda interesting that Makoto can choose to be or not to be a one-shot, as it stands im more likely to just call her a true rushdown character, she just wants to get in and stay in after all, but I do love having the option of sinking all your meter into being the scariest character in the game temporarily.
I love this series because you're showcasing unique archetypes. Subbed! Most FG youtubers only ever go over the basic ones like Zoner/Rushdown/Grappler which is fine but as someone whose making a fighting game, I want to get as many interpretations of as many archetypes as possible to make characters fit as much as possible with as many players as possible. I said, "As Many" so much.
Thank you! Ive had a lot of comments from developers who are really inspiring to hear from. I do want my vids to be useful to Developers, newcomers, and veterans all at once if i can do so. Being as informative as i can be without being exclusionary to any experience level is a huge goal of mine when i write my scripts. Good luck with your fighting game! Ill hopefully continue to put out relevant, unique and interesting content about fighting games well into the future!
To be fair, i also didnt show Robo Ky self destruct or XX Dragon install. These vids take a LOT to make and at the end of the day im a 1 person team. I try my best to stick to stuff thats more pertinent to fighting game newcomers, so they can round out their understandings and hopefully roll that info back themselves if they venture into older or more hardcore/obscure fighters
I was unsure, but after listening to the whole message I get ya. The thing I was thinking about was Glass Cannon since you spoke about Phoenix/Dark Phoenix but the wide variety and I totally agree. The thing I'd say is there's some characters whose set up leads to circumstances like this, but I was kinda hoping to see Azrael (Blazblue) or maybe Ralf (KoF) since they have a strong single punch and depending on the game and situations deal a lot of damage. I'll need to check out a few more vids, thanks for this.
Ive actually covered both ralf and azrael to some extent, i believe both were in my bully video. Since azraels moves are covered in guard points or invulnerability, in order to make him play a very interruptive gameplan, even if he doesnt get his full explosive combos till later in a round.
Uh, that's an Archetype that I didn't like in the beginning when learning Fighting games, cuz I didn't want to believe that Fighting games was just combos, but those guys were out there. But, on present days, I kinda like and see they beauty, and know that they aren't just a character that in one moment just deleted your healthbar
It wouldve taken much time and effort to explain, but how difficult maxing out the damage on these characters is can be insane. And as fighting games are growing to have both lower skill floors and higher skill ceilings, im also very inclined to say if the combos are extremely hard, they should be allowed.
@@DarumaFGC I just can remember the difficult that is to perform the 100% Kyo's combo on KOF2002UM, 50/50 that costs you 4 bars, that pushes you to the corner in the combo, but, oh lord, is not a casual thing that peoples do lol
Almost every fighting game has one, and if a particular game doesnt have one, its likely an entry earlier in the series does. Personally i hope we see more of them in future. I find them super interesting competitively.
While i suppose Ashes is the most definitive of their playstyle, kof has a lot of these. I really like the old Orochi Chris transformation in 02 even if thats also hardly something people really flock to en masse. Plus ashes neutral is just very very good without it, id like to make a video on good halfscreen projectiles like Ash and elizabeth have, i think theyre one of the funnest tools in fighters even if they have somewhat irritatingly little counterplay on the revieving end
I think its maybe more accurate to lump him in with snowball characters, which id probably also put Frank West in with, since they need to both get a whole bunch of levels in before they get a guaranteed instakill, and unlike the one-shot they can expend those levels early too.
A.B.A counts, right? Starts weak, two supermodes, absurdly damaging combos. I feel like you could make an argument for Kliff considering he can ToD most of the cast if he has meter but he doesn't have an install. He's probably more a glass canon.
In mvc3, Phoenix (jean) is far better than Phoenix (wright). Mr wright can snowball, but turnabout is ephemeral and elusive. Dark Phoenix is absurdly powerful, often an instant victory thanks to absurd mix+damage+neutral. This state will last you long enough to win nuetral, kill one and then non-blockable mix the next two on incoming in the blink of an eye.
For the most part id agree, id like to do a video on the shifting landscape of this though. Wright has gone from pretty much entirely ass to being pretty scary after people have figured him out, and in their sister archetype, Frank west robberies are also becoming super common where they never were before. Its a shame people hyperfocus on Zero Dante and Vergil because the game truly does have a ton of incredibly unique character implementations with wincons that are surprisingly strong if the player just puts in the practice to learn all its nuance.
Sorry to be that guy, but Phoenix doesn't require X-Factor to transform. X-Factor is just saved for the transformation because it drains health really fast until it reaches 1, making you vulnerable to chip from invulnerable supers like Sentinel Hard Drive or ones hard to defend against like Vergil Helmbreaker. Basically insurance against someone with really good defense or getting 1 tapped by a well placed reversal. Plus it gives her speed that helps with teleport mix ups.
I actually didnt realise that, it does wind up being roughly the same in effect but thanks for correcting me. A lot of the documentation i read up on through this vid in particular had conflicting information and i only have so long i can spend fact checking. So i genuinely just didnt realise it was optional.
I think this video really would've benefitted from talking about Shadow characters in persona 4 arena ultimax. The shadow versions of characters turn every single character in the cast into a one-shot character.
To be fair, system mechanics arent really something you can discuss in terms of archetypes. Like for example, Drive rush in SF6 doesnt make everyone a rushdown. Even if they all have that tool. While its technically only half the roster in P4AU, its a really complex topic. Its for the most part a failed experiment. To be fair to shadows, they got notable buffs across the board in the re-release which still hasnt been fully explored for new tech, but for the most part, its really not like its optional or based on preference if you pick the shadow or regular character competitively, people only play the shadow versions of characters that are absolutely broken, whereas solid regular versions of the roster are almost across the board preferable. Itd be a lot to cram in as just an aside in this video.
NRS games kinda have their own ecosystem going on for archetypes, theres not really someone i can directly say plays like noob in another game. That said, i do plan on doing an ability archive series someday for individual moves. So this might come up there.
You should make a boss character video aka characters that are meant to be final bosses but actually are balanced and how devs achieve this like 21 from fighter z (NOT LABCOAT) and later versions of justice in guilty gear
I would say shes a little more of a rushdown character, given that while her powerup only gets better every year as people improve at the game, its still optional, and only some makotos take it, its not quite like tengu stones where every other supers useless to her. But still, i love her powerup, really hope she returns in sf6
@@metroidprimerib7967 I foresee an expansion pack for the game that adds a new world tour hub largely full of SF3 characters that are added in what is, most likely gonna be something like "super street fighter 6" - Dudley, Makoto, Sakura, G, and a few other characters from the series's past actually have semi-frequent references throughout world tour. So I do think they're coming in the future. But I feel like the omission of ANY sf3 characters is so glaring, they just have to be planning something specific based around them specifically.
Its not really something that stuck around very long. Characters like her and Q have these very fast halfscreen tackles to close distance and their walk speeds are only low to compensate for how difficult those tools are to react to. It wound up not really sticking into future SF games or really being much of an archetype present in other games. Still though, hope makoto gets a very cool new design and rework someday in sf6. Her toolkit untouched wouldnt really be great in the game but a strong rushdown character like her can definitely have some fresh new moves added and make a lot out of drive rush being the core of the game.
Kinda, yes. Much like there are boss characters that are zoners or rushdowns. Its more a realm of character design than specific type of character. I do though think its fair for certain specific characters to say they clearly rely on this state, while for others its an optional part of their kit. So theres a clear subcategory focused on this style of install activation.
Hes part of the one shots sister archetype, the snowball character. Theyre characters who build up a resource to permanently get stronger. Like for example, jamie getting drunk in SF6. Whereas for these guys, they only get it temporarily, like golden frieza, who is part of this archetype.
Thats true, but because her life does drain down to 1 HP in that state, plus its not a gradual increase of strength its just an alternate mode, she winds up on this side of the fence. Ill cover other snowball characters in a vid down the road, hopefully that clears the distinction up. The design philosphy and the way theyre played winds up different.
Weirdly enough, the first character I thought of when you went over the archetype wasn't a fighting game character, but Grimm from the Advance Wars series. AW is a turn based strategy series and a super meter kind of like a fighting game. Each character has their own supers and sets of passive buffs/debuffs to their army. In a real time game Grimm would be a glass cannon: his passive is that all his units deal 30% extra damage and take 20% extra damage, and his super makes his units deal EVEN MORE damage! But because it's a turn-based game he can't effectively rushdown and stop his opponent from acting. So instead his playstyle (or at least that of his one high level player) is to basically do the equivalent of playing super tight footsies, trading pot shots to charge up meter. Then he baits the opponent into over-committing to an attack and pops super to launch a devastating counter-assault.
I love this sort of thing in RTS games, while ive played plenty TRPGs i often find the strategy element somewhat lacking and kinda easy, something like dawn of war 2 where my hero character can suddenly hugely buff nearby units or call in an air strike that doubles as reinforcements though really appeals to me, turning the tides with a force that on the surface appears very weak is always very fun
@@DarumaFGC I highly recommend checking out a Grimm Guy replay. There's a great tempo to his matches, and commentary will help you understand what's going on
Small correction on Phoenix and Dark Phoenix in UMvC3. Base Phoenix is not low tier at all. She has Magneto level movement and is a very solid character on her own. Its what makes her have so little counterplay once those 5 bars are built. You can’t just turtle her because she can camp you back while also having too many varied mixups to consistently block.
True, I was definitely exageratting, but its kinda hard to say nuanced stuff about tag games and have it actually sink in for people. I do think though its fair to say basically no one is playing her just to play phoenix, and they specifically want to fish for the activation. But its hard to get that across in a concise manner.
Dustloops goes as far to word this: filling it completely activates Blood Rage, a state so punishing that triggering it during ill opportune moments renders defeat near certain.
I REALLY need a video on the "Pixie" or "Rekka" fighter!
Rekka fan
Im planning on reserving pixie for "pixie grappler" since i think that gets the main difference and unique aspect of the character in just the name. And the archetypes i believe youre referring to will be the "speed" character, since not only do some recent games label characters as such, but it is just clear and distinct while letting me open up the archetype to characters who play very similarly but do not have rekkas, like Vega and Taokaka.
I feel like calling rekka an archetype doesn’t really count because how rekka affects a character’s gameplan varies way too much. Kind of like saying strive Baiken annd annji are both counter characters because they both have a counter. Also what’s a pixie? I’ve actually never heard that term before?
@@chaselowell4567 The few times I've seen it used myself were in discussions of how balancing characters with higher/lower health doesn't tend to result in things being balanced. "Pixies" are low health characters with very high mobility: usually resulting in powerful neutral, mix-up, and okizeme. The difference from a "glass cannon" is that "pixies" often have relatively low damage.
@@TheAmberFang so millia in gg? insane mobility and setups but poor damage. Likely to win a lot of interactions but low reward for each individual interaction
I'm working on my own fighting game and the character I'm working on next is in fact: a One-Shot character! Its so hard to define since I couldn't think of examples other than Nago and Dark Pheonix, but this video has shown me more examples and given me a bit of a nudge in the right direction on where to go. And of course, you're always entertaining, so this was great for me!
good luck on your fighting game!
Bro did not have to call out both me and hotashi like that, what a menace
Its my job 😎
Ironic that both of the characters named "Phoenix" in UMVC3 are One-Shot characters
One thing to note, in SFV after you finish a Vtrigger, you'll have no v meter for v-reversal or v-shift. So there's an actual a risk for Oro to put up the v-trigger and not KO the opponent
To a certain extent, both SF5 and SF6 have mechanics that allow one shot playstyles
I do feel like both SF6 and MK1s rosters feel weirdly void of a true one-shot character though. Like Johnny Cage does have his hype meter, but he also doesnt lean too heavily on it and can easily wind up activating it as much as 3 times a round too.
I know they're somewhat controversial, since they're effectively solely about "robbery". But it can kinda feel like a rosters incomplete without one.
Whichever madman at arcsys decided to make hakumen both a parry and a one shot character, thank you. Only character i can think of in an fg that insta kills you on your turn
This series has been an absolute treat to watch, thank you for your work.
Thanks a lot mr blooper, hopefully season 2 of Archetype Archive winds up an even greater pleasure 🍻 Cheers!
@@DarumaFGC I would love to see a video on the mid-dispencers aka strike throw characters. While they're not an archetype I would love to see what you have to say about these characters since you extract exactly why people enjoy them and what's common about them.
@@mrblooper1994 there are some characters who don't wholly fit this definition, so its not airtight, but I think normally when people are talking about mid dispencers, they're talking about the same kind of characters people call "gorillas" and thats what my Brawler episode was about. Characters who have forward moving moves, that loop into basically infinite pressure, until they choose to go for an unsafe high, low or throw mixup. Simple mixes that are basically impossible to mash out of.
There are still exceptions though, mainly in NRS games, which honestly can be so different they could have their own wholly unique ecosystem of archetypes. But its a little hard to see me covering that stuff at least in the near future. The MK content I made barely grew my channel at all and completely flopped. So it'll be a while at least till i revisit that idea.
Another great episode! Congratulations on this wonderful series!!!
🎉🎉🎉
By the way, as a grappler player it kinda triggers me how sometines these guys have better neutral than grapplers even tho they need to win less interactions to destroy health bars, but as long as one shot characters don't get to sf3 makoto level of degeneracy i'm fine hahaha
The planned video on what makes characters good will actually be about that topic. I think number of interactions needed versus difficulty of said interactions is a good scale. But youre right in that often, grapplers are laughably weak at both. Games are coming around to the idea though, FighterZ has always had top tier grapplers and i would definitely say Reiko is in the top 10 for mk1. I do hate when the grappler in a game is just outright not an option and unplayably bad
You know, this is a really good way of describing these characters. I often look for names for these sub archetypes, like in zoning there's a difference between physical/projectile/maybe even trap right? I've always loved stance characters but more the toolbox type, but didn't have a word for this type until now. great stuff
Yeah a lot of good fighting game knowledge is unfortunately just locked in players heads and we dont have language for, i hope to get a few more terms circulated into wider use over time.
Great video, as usual. This series is banger after banger!
I personally would love to see a video about zoners just to hear an analytical and nuanced take on what they actually do. Most of the time all people say is "Zoners bad because it's cheap" but there is so much more to it than just throwing out fireballs.
But I understand that your Archetype Archive exists to highlight less known archetypes so I'll just patiently wait. Maybe there's a specific subtype of zoning that could be deserving of it's own video at some point.
Im taking on shotos first, after a short break from archetype archive for the sake of variety. But after those the rest of the big 4: grapplers, rushdown & zoners will be covered, and subdivided into archetypes under them. I.e. projectile zoners and normal based zoners.
@@DarumaFGC That sounds great! I'm absolutely looking forward to it
The 1shot concept has lead me to two characters:
FGC: Qigong Master that can buff himself, Jam Kuradoberi-style, to 100% you with a 3-step Rekka or ONE COUNTERMOVE
Short Novel: MaskHero 1-shot has such excessive power he analyses enemies before approach so he can unleash enough power to defeat them without creating a mile-wide crater of dust around them... *AGAIN*
(They live hidden underground since the first time they "helped" ; nuclear coup averted, but now they need a new capital...)
I've been following your videos for a while and always enjoyed them, but I feel like this one does a great with clarity and in-depth yet concise descriptions. It shows the progress you've made when it comes to video production, my hat's off to you!
Im glad you think theyve gotten better! Done my best to make my workflow on them a lot more efficient, so im glad the improvement is noticable
You've mentioned in the past you were considering doing a video on footsie/"punisher" characters like Chun-Li, is that still in the cards? Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on it
Its on its way in season 2, needed a bit of a break from the archetype archive formula till 2024s in but itll come, broadening my horizons a bit in the meantime, got lots of half written or completed scripts ive been unable to touch for months till now.
I'm stomping in 10 months late to pout about the fact that you said Arakune has to earn it. Any hit into overdrive is instant curse. I hate the bug with a passion but overdrive is worse.
Nagoryuki is kind of an opposite to this, because he is most dangerous at the beginning of the game when he is able to spam specials
luigi from smash ult kinda counts as a one shot character considering he can kill any character off one grab at 0% and higher if their a heavy weight
What about the video on Grapplers? Or was it Shotos...Is it delayed, cancelled?
Shotos script is on its way, just need a month or so on some other stuff temporarily
Makoto 3rd strike and Elizabeth P4AU also fit this archetype well I'd say, Makoto having SA 2 and Liz mind charge.
Yeah I think its kinda interesting that Makoto can choose to be or not to be a one-shot, as it stands im more likely to just call her a true rushdown character, she just wants to get in and stay in after all, but I do love having the option of sinking all your meter into being the scariest character in the game temporarily.
I love this series because you're showcasing unique archetypes. Subbed!
Most FG youtubers only ever go over the basic ones like Zoner/Rushdown/Grappler which is fine but as someone whose making a fighting game, I want to get as many interpretations of as many archetypes as possible to make characters fit as much as possible with as many players as possible.
I said, "As Many" so much.
Thank you! Ive had a lot of comments from developers who are really inspiring to hear from. I do want my vids to be useful to Developers, newcomers, and veterans all at once if i can do so. Being as informative as i can be without being exclusionary to any experience level is a huge goal of mine when i write my scripts. Good luck with your fighting game! Ill hopefully continue to put out relevant, unique and interesting content about fighting games well into the future!
4:20 Respek tha STONES
Facts‼️
curious that u mention sol DI, nago bloodrage and even show a +R clip but didnt talked about ABA V:
To be fair, i also didnt show Robo Ky self destruct or XX Dragon install. These vids take a LOT to make and at the end of the day im a 1 person team. I try my best to stick to stuff thats more pertinent to fighting game newcomers, so they can round out their understandings and hopefully roll that info back themselves if they venture into older or more hardcore/obscure fighters
I was unsure, but after listening to the whole message I get ya. The thing I was thinking about was Glass Cannon since you spoke about Phoenix/Dark Phoenix but the wide variety and I totally agree. The thing I'd say is there's some characters whose set up leads to circumstances like this, but I was kinda hoping to see Azrael (Blazblue) or maybe Ralf (KoF) since they have a strong single punch and depending on the game and situations deal a lot of damage. I'll need to check out a few more vids, thanks for this.
Ive actually covered both ralf and azrael to some extent, i believe both were in my bully video. Since azraels moves are covered in guard points or invulnerability, in order to make him play a very interruptive gameplan, even if he doesnt get his full explosive combos till later in a round.
@@DarumaFGC I know what I'm watching later today!
I was wondering what you would call characters that sort of build up to their strongest points like Phoenix Wright or Lucario. Now I found the answer.
Glad I could help somewhat!
Uh, that's an Archetype that I didn't like in the beginning when learning Fighting games, cuz I didn't want to believe that Fighting games was just combos, but those guys were out there. But, on present days, I kinda like and see they beauty, and know that they aren't just a character that in one moment just deleted your healthbar
It wouldve taken much time and effort to explain, but how difficult maxing out the damage on these characters is can be insane. And as fighting games are growing to have both lower skill floors and higher skill ceilings, im also very inclined to say if the combos are extremely hard, they should be allowed.
@@DarumaFGC I just can remember the difficult that is to perform the 100% Kyo's combo on KOF2002UM, 50/50 that costs you 4 bars, that pushes you to the corner in the combo, but, oh lord, is not a casual thing that peoples do lol
wild! i honestly didnt even think this sort of thing could be counted as an archetype, but you kinda make a point here.
Almost every fighting game has one, and if a particular game doesnt have one, its likely an entry earlier in the series does. Personally i hope we see more of them in future. I find them super interesting competitively.
2:00 Indeed
Some characters have a One-Shot optional function.
Some players choose to use it exclusively...
XD
Ash Crimson not mentioned 😔
While i suppose Ashes is the most definitive of their playstyle, kof has a lot of these. I really like the old Orochi Chris transformation in 02 even if thats also hardly something people really flock to en masse. Plus ashes neutral is just very very good without it, id like to make a video on good halfscreen projectiles like Ash and elizabeth have, i think theyre one of the funnest tools in fighters even if they have somewhat irritatingly little counterplay on the revieving end
Ssj4 gogeta is a one shot character right?
I think its maybe more accurate to lump him in with snowball characters, which id probably also put Frank West in with, since they need to both get a whole bunch of levels in before they get a guaranteed instakill, and unlike the one-shot they can expend those levels early too.
Thanks for another great video!
Just happy you like them! Cheers! 🍻
A.B.A counts, right? Starts weak, two supermodes, absurdly damaging combos. I feel like you could make an argument for Kliff considering he can ToD most of the cast if he has meter but he doesn't have an install. He's probably more a glass canon.
Yeah A.B.A. does for sure. And much like Sol in XRD robo ky has it as an optional win con rather than his primary archetype
@@DarumaFGCyeah mk archetypes can be creative or an absolute mess
The day you drop videos is always a good day I love this series so much daruma!
Im glad to have such appreciative fans! It definitely drives me to make more and ensure each of these is better than the last. Cheers!! 🍻
@@DarumaFGC cheers🍻
Bugman ❤
🦗
In mvc3, Phoenix (jean) is far better than Phoenix (wright). Mr wright can snowball, but turnabout is ephemeral and elusive. Dark Phoenix is absurdly powerful, often an instant victory thanks to absurd mix+damage+neutral. This state will last you long enough to win nuetral, kill one and then non-blockable mix the next two on incoming in the blink of an eye.
For the most part id agree, id like to do a video on the shifting landscape of this though. Wright has gone from pretty much entirely ass to being pretty scary after people have figured him out, and in their sister archetype, Frank west robberies are also becoming super common where they never were before. Its a shame people hyperfocus on Zero Dante and Vergil because the game truly does have a ton of incredibly unique character implementations with wincons that are surprisingly strong if the player just puts in the practice to learn all its nuance.
Sorry to be that guy, but Phoenix doesn't require X-Factor to transform. X-Factor is just saved for the transformation because it drains health really fast until it reaches 1, making you vulnerable to chip from invulnerable supers like Sentinel Hard Drive or ones hard to defend against like Vergil Helmbreaker. Basically insurance against someone with really good defense or getting 1 tapped by a well placed reversal. Plus it gives her speed that helps with teleport mix ups.
I actually didnt realise that, it does wind up being roughly the same in effect but thanks for correcting me. A lot of the documentation i read up on through this vid in particular had conflicting information and i only have so long i can spend fact checking. So i genuinely just didnt realise it was optional.
I think this video really would've benefitted from talking about Shadow characters in persona 4 arena ultimax. The shadow versions of characters turn every single character in the cast into a one-shot character.
To be fair, system mechanics arent really something you can discuss in terms of archetypes. Like for example, Drive rush in SF6 doesnt make everyone a rushdown. Even if they all have that tool. While its technically only half the roster in P4AU, its a really complex topic. Its for the most part a failed experiment. To be fair to shadows, they got notable buffs across the board in the re-release which still hasnt been fully explored for new tech, but for the most part, its really not like its optional or based on preference if you pick the shadow or regular character competitively, people only play the shadow versions of characters that are absolutely broken, whereas solid regular versions of the roster are almost across the board preferable. Itd be a lot to cram in as just an aside in this video.
Is there an archetype for a high damage zoner? (Ex. Noob Saibot in Mk11)
NRS games kinda have their own ecosystem going on for archetypes, theres not really someone i can directly say plays like noob in another game. That said, i do plan on doing an ability archive series someday for individual moves. So this might come up there.
You should make a boss character video aka characters that are meant to be final bosses but actually are balanced and how devs achieve this like 21 from fighter z (NOT LABCOAT) and later versions of justice in guilty gear
Its absolutely coming, for sure. I have plenty interesting things to say about boss character design and how its changed over the years.
Surprised no third strike Makoto here. Along with Nago she is the one shot character to me
I would say shes a little more of a rushdown character, given that while her powerup only gets better every year as people improve at the game, its still optional, and only some makotos take it, its not quite like tengu stones where every other supers useless to her. But still, i love her powerup, really hope she returns in sf6
@DarumaFGC she would be a monster in 6 for sure. I'd love to see her or Dudley since there is no sf3 rep yet sadly and they both skipped 5.
@@metroidprimerib7967 I foresee an expansion pack for the game that adds a new world tour hub largely full of SF3 characters that are added in what is, most likely gonna be something like "super street fighter 6" - Dudley, Makoto, Sakura, G, and a few other characters from the series's past actually have semi-frequent references throughout world tour. So I do think they're coming in the future. But I feel like the omission of ANY sf3 characters is so glaring, they just have to be planning something specific based around them specifically.
Feel like you forgot the slow but explosive version of One-shots like Makoto of SF.
Its not really something that stuck around very long. Characters like her and Q have these very fast halfscreen tackles to close distance and their walk speeds are only low to compensate for how difficult those tools are to react to. It wound up not really sticking into future SF games or really being much of an archetype present in other games. Still though, hope makoto gets a very cool new design and rework someday in sf6. Her toolkit untouched wouldnt really be great in the game but a strong rushdown character like her can definitely have some fresh new moves added and make a lot out of drive rush being the core of the game.
It's a property/win condition that can be afixed unto a preexisting character that an archetype by itself.
Kinda, yes. Much like there are boss characters that are zoners or rushdowns. Its more a realm of character design than specific type of character. I do though think its fair for certain specific characters to say they clearly rely on this state, while for others its an optional part of their kit. So theres a clear subcategory focused on this style of install activation.
I think Gohan from dbfz is a good mention for this
Level 7 + Sparking is still the best character in the game
Hes part of the one shots sister archetype, the snowball character. Theyre characters who build up a resource to permanently get stronger. Like for example, jamie getting drunk in SF6. Whereas for these guys, they only get it temporarily, like golden frieza, who is part of this archetype.
Phoenix isn't temporary though right? She just wins or dies are DP. @@DarumaFGC
Thats true, but because her life does drain down to 1 HP in that state, plus its not a gradual increase of strength its just an alternate mode, she winds up on this side of the fence. Ill cover other snowball characters in a vid down the road, hopefully that clears the distinction up. The design philosphy and the way theyre played winds up different.
Yeah just here for some good conjecture I agree with your points. This was a great video can't wait to see more from you @@DarumaFGC
@ShaudL thanks for the appreciation! There will be plenty more down the road to look forward to
Weirdly enough, the first character I thought of when you went over the archetype wasn't a fighting game character, but Grimm from the Advance Wars series. AW is a turn based strategy series and a super meter kind of like a fighting game. Each character has their own supers and sets of passive buffs/debuffs to their army.
In a real time game Grimm would be a glass cannon: his passive is that all his units deal 30% extra damage and take 20% extra damage, and his super makes his units deal EVEN MORE damage! But because it's a turn-based game he can't effectively rushdown and stop his opponent from acting. So instead his playstyle (or at least that of his one high level player) is to basically do the equivalent of playing super tight footsies, trading pot shots to charge up meter. Then he baits the opponent into over-committing to an attack and pops super to launch a devastating counter-assault.
I love this sort of thing in RTS games, while ive played plenty TRPGs i often find the strategy element somewhat lacking and kinda easy, something like dawn of war 2 where my hero character can suddenly hugely buff nearby units or call in an air strike that doubles as reinforcements though really appeals to me, turning the tides with a force that on the surface appears very weak is always very fun
@@DarumaFGC I highly recommend checking out a Grimm Guy replay. There's a great tempo to his matches, and commentary will help you understand what's going on
10:15 the coughing baby hydrogen bomb made me laugh
Glad someone besides myself had a chuckle at that 🍻 cheers!
Small correction on Phoenix and Dark Phoenix in UMvC3. Base Phoenix is not low tier at all. She has Magneto level movement and is a very solid character on her own. Its what makes her have so little counterplay once those 5 bars are built. You can’t just turtle her because she can camp you back while also having too many varied mixups to consistently block.
True, I was definitely exageratting, but its kinda hard to say nuanced stuff about tag games and have it actually sink in for people. I do think though its fair to say basically no one is playing her just to play phoenix, and they specifically want to fish for the activation. But its hard to get that across in a concise manner.
@@DarumaFGC That's fair! Great vid
Cheers fluffy, glad you enjoyed! 🍻
New episode let’s go
Hope you enjoyed!! 🍻
I HATE NAGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Spin to win dude
Did he just call blood rage a buff?
It always was.
Dustloops goes as far to word this: filling it completely activates Blood Rage, a state so punishing that triggering it during ill opportune moments renders defeat near certain.
If defeat is near certain and it's a buff, sign me up.
2:41 you didn't even make it 2 minutes huh?
nope, shut the video off when I heard heresy.@@evilded2