My favorite negative edge thing are aoko's orbs in melty, the way they work is you use a 421 motion to set them, but they don't go off and hit the opponent until you release the button. Seems simple enough at first, and then you realize the orb actually stays as long as you hold any one button, not necessarily the one you used to set it, so in combos with orb extensions you often have to constantly juggle what button you're holding to be able to use all 3 attack buttons while holding the orb, I unfortunately don't have the brain capacity to do orb combos but they look really cool
She's the character I play and love how much creativity and freedom that character gives you. Honestly one of the most player expression characters ever made. She definitely makes me love negative edge moves. Fpan games have some of the most interesting negative edge Hilda has one that is an overhead and gets larger the longer it's held.
Zero’s buster in UMVC3 is a pretty standard negative edge projectile, intill you start charging it longer. It’s got 3 levels and on the third level it becomes one of the highest durability projectiles in the game, travels super fast, and can cancel from any special move. Because Zero has teleport dash that goes through oppents, this allows for multilayered unseeable crossup mix that is crazy plus.
i got randomly interested in vatista and decided to give her a try and completely fell in love with her combination of charge and negative edge alongside how elegantly beautiful her animations are,such an amazing character. i spent a lot in training mode trying to wrap my head in these new concepts for me ! i really adore negative edge in general and been super interested in trying more characters that use them since then
Not a fighting game but I love how negative edge is used in devil may cry, sin devil trigger, Nero's charged shot, Vergil's judgement cut, it's everywhere and always super satisfying
Pokken tournament has a ton of negative edge moves, typically referred to as release moves by the community. They can range from more TAP or zonk type moves, to charge type moves, to projectiles, to utility, to defensive options, to almost character defining tools, and even more. Id recommended checking them out and the game as a whole, its really cool!
Perfecti in Akatsuki Blitzkamp has a move that’s like TAP but there’s a few key differences that make it far more compelling, namely that a.) this is a three button game, b.) Perfecti is a low damage zoner who really needs access to her buttons, c.) the strongest version requires both B and C to be held down. This basically means that if she wants damage, or even potentially a ToD off of the Lvl 2 EX, she needs to properly manage her buttons to not be incredibly vulnerable.
One of my favorite applications of negative edge are just simple delayed projectiles. They are such simple tools when it comes to being setplay enablers, but they add a lot of depth given how flexible they are. Something as simple as just being able to meaty with the projectile, or being able to save it to cover a second mixup can give an otherwise simple character a striking amount of depth. Also, unrelated, but negative edge always feels great in combos.
There's a crazy curiosity for shizumaru in SS5 special edition, where your negative edge works on character select screen from the moment his portrait appears, so if you lock in shizumaru fast and hold it and your opponent takes a lot of time to choose their character, they take a lot of damage for free if they dont expect it coming.
@@justsomeguywithkaminasshad7145 not me, that's for sure. We used to play a lot and I often abused it just for the fun of their surprised faces when they took 60% in a single hit.
Most of what I know about Negative Edge comes from Guilty Gear, where Eddie acts on button release, and that Third Strike counts button releases for most specials, so you could piano the buttons and have six chances to make tight links. Thanks for the deep dive on this.
So yea we have 3 types of negative edge: Levels, like tap Charges, like Hilde and Stores, like Juri in SF4 (where you dont HAVE to hold the button but it gives you the option)
I was very surprised at the lack of mention of Primal Rage and Liu Kang's bicycle kick from Mortal Kombat until you mentioned you weren't into retro games. Primal Rage Arcade release decided to make all the special moves motion + negative edge which was and still is imo counter intuitive. This was so ill received that on some home console ports and the unreleased Primal Rage 2 they made it traditional motion + button input. Great video very enjoyable watch.
Also if you were wondering why Soul Calibur players call this "charging", its because Soul Calibur and Tekken have some moves that you can hold down to get a stronger version.
@@Ramsey276one No, its just an explanation as to why for people who play namco 3d fighter, something like holding on to a button to level it up before releasing it would have a different name from how a 2d fighter player would.
I was awaiting the *release* of this vid as soon as you teased it 😎 In KI Gold on N64 (probably this was in the arcade versions as well?), Jago had a red endokuken as well as his normal one. Its inputs were 236 then punch negative edge. It was red, knocked down, and I believe also cancelled normal endokuken in certain situations, allowing you to combo fireballs in a way similar to a fireball xx super input. As far as I know, it was the only special move in KI Gold that was triggered on negative edge.
SNK tackled the concept way sooner than that. Big Bear in Fatal Fury 2/Special has the Super Missile Dropkick; although IIRC, it's committed to a charge on D (heavy kick). It's the first time outside of SF2 I saw that implemented... and KI took the concept to a whole new level with exclusive revised move version using this input method (ie: moves that can juggle vs. moves that can't).
A cool fact: Krushnood Butt original name is Marco Rodriguez. Nobody knows for sure why the U.S. localization team changed his name for the arcade version of Garou, specially since his original name fits very well his background as a Brazilian Fighter
@@qmanchuYeah, that's weird, since that name only appears in English translations of SNK games (he has cameos in a few games), while in every other translation -Spanish, French, Portuguese etc. - localization teams kept his original name.
Oh there’s a number of really cool examples of this kind of move in a 3D fighter in the form of Pokken DX of all things. Pokken regularly changes between a 3D and a 2D fighter mid match but most of the moves like this are useable in both. Notably, Machamp straight up just has Balrog turn punch. Plenty of other characters have a special move that only comes out after they release the special button after holding it for a few seconds and Darkrai and Decidueye both have a charge move like this for their light attack button, their heavy attack button, and their special attack button
Pokken was such an interesting game that I wasn't able to give More of a shot. Had the original on Wii U and played with friends but they didn't stick with it, so neither did I
You forgot the OG T Hawk, who had no whiff animation on throws so you could do negative edge shenanigans with option selects and inescapable throw loops.
There is also Zero from UMvC3/MvCI where the charge has levels, the release cancel special moves, and as long as you are holding a button down you are keeping your charge so in most cases you dont lose access to buttons
The only couple I can think of off the top of my head you didn't mention were older MK games for Liu Kang bicycle kick and Mileena roll. Kitana's fatality in MK 2 is also hold a button for 5 seconds or something like that
Ok thank you for educating me on negative edge and its applications outside of puppeteer characters, cuz previously I only knew about Zato-1 and Carl Clover. I’ve been working on my own platform fighter with some friends for a while now, and we have one character that has 4 different focus trees like an RPG character or something, with each tree corresponding to a different elemental magic book. We’ve been struggling to figure out a way to implement it, but this gave me the idea to have it tied to a negative edge mechanic of his mediums and heavies, as well as being able to use the other 2 books by pressing the alt button as you initially input your medium or heavy (the alt button keeps whatever input you have on the control stick while it is held, but allows for new control stick inputs to be read purely for motion inputs and not actual movement, and also is how you do push block and certain unique specials, but that’s only for 1 or 2 characters). Anyways, thank you again! Awesome video!
@@qmanchuokay well we kinda scrapped the idea. One because we changed the buttons to have A and B instead of light, medium and heavy, and two, the others on the team didn’t really like it for that character. So we have a different negative edge character. He has 2 rings that he can throw out by holding A or B, kinda like Vatista. Releasing the button plus a direction does an attack and each ring has a different attack for each direction. Holding neutral and releasing teleports him to that ring. All of this is tied to a unique resource.
Aside from TAP which I definitely used when trying out Cracker Jack and Balrog, I think the first time I actually heard of what negative edge was happened to be when I looked up how SF1's specials worked: The reason behind why they are considered difficult is that aside from the strict timing, you have to negative edge the button presses instead of simply pressing the button after the motion. Sagat was still a pain in the ass even with consistent Hadoukens but...yeah. That thought aside, really neat video about this little detail
There's actually a 4th type of negative edge move, kind of. Basically, you hold down the button, then do a motion input and the special move will come out. As far as I'm aware these motions have only been in 2 games, Primal Rage and Weapon Lord, and I don't think they even have a name, I like to call them prep motions since you have the button you want prepped before you do the motion, though I guess we can also call them negative edge motions. The devs for both games said they chose these types of motions so that players can do the motions with more intent. But I think these types of motions have the potential to be easier to do since you don't have to press a button quickly after the motion and can just hold down the button beforehand. If you ever see this comment, maybe you can make a video about these unique motion inputs because I find them pretty fascinating and there's very little documentation about them.
This is actually the normal kind of negative edge. Karin's hit confirms worked well with this since you could press cr.Mk and then input the special but only release the button if you hit the opponent which would trigger the special attack. Akshon Esports did a video about Weaponlord around the time I made this! Haven't seen it yet but I've heard it's good
Yeah limiting of a toolkit for a big power move or ability is pretty cool and more simple than you think yet exciting as you learn about it. Also I always heard it as a charge move like in megaman just holding charge buster, you're charing the move. Charging is way bigger outside of fighting games, like in baseball games or party games as well. I think it's more universal in games in general and fighting games is actually the outlier against the rule since charging in those games is usually holding back(most of the time); where therefore it's for motion input instead of a action input.
An implementation of negative edge I've seen in fighting games that I think is pretty cool is Pet Shop in Jojo All Star Battle R. While he's known for being a beast in Heritage for opressive he is, ASBR Pet Shop is definitely on the niche side and is someone you rarely see played for how tricky he is to use. His negative edge is an air ok projectile that tracks the opponents last position. This in of itself isn't too interesting, but it plays into his more air based playstyle, having a command jump and mode that lets Pet Shop fly and use ground normals in the air. You should check it out sometime, since it's pretty interesting imo. Great video btw.
@@qmanchu I see. ASBR is definitely a very niche game but it's fun. It's an easy to learn hard to master game imo, with a lot of references to Jojo if that wasn't already obvious. Be it silly stuff like 3 characters with revives or universal otg taunt combos, the game has a lot to talk about. Maybe one day you can do a video on it if you ever pick it up.
Pokken also had some Negative Edge in a few characters (I know Garchomp had one but I can't remember any others. Maybe Gengar), and it made combos super fun to pull off
I think a reason why negative edge moves are becoming less common might be part of the transition to console. I don't think it's a huge stretch considering they were still fairly common up through the 09 phase but have been getting less and less frequent in more modern games that aren't initially arcade releases. While it isn't necessarily changing everyone's input methods, negative edge moves don't really feel that natural on a pad where you are only using 2 or 3 fingers to hit your attack buttons, and where usually people will only have the luxury of holding the heavy punch/kick buttons unless they remap the inputs (holding one of your face buttons shuts off 4 buttons instead of just 1 unless you claw, at which point you really might as well just get a stick). For example, it's not a fighting game but in Devil May Cry 4 and 5, Nero's charge shot is just a straight upgrade from his regular gun so there is basically no reason to not always be holding the gun button. But even if you remap it to a shoulder button so that this doesn't interrupt your main buttons and camera control, it can get pretty rough on your hand holding a shoulder button almost uninterrupted for many minutes, or hours. That's something that I would think a developer would rather not deal with. I do suspect that if Boxer is added to SF6 that he'll retain his TAP since it's a classic move, though.
I think you're right. I have to change my control scheme to play Vatista in Melty because she simply doesn't work with normal pad controls. SF6 got rid of the mashing inputs for probably that reason and I hate it. I really hope if we get Balrog or Cody, they have these moves but honestly, the evidence shows otherwise
In the case of Nero though, holding charge at all times is not even close to necessary for beating the game or getting S ranks. So I think it adds a lot of depth in giving these different options varying difficulty that each have their own drawbacks. But if you can master using all of them at once, you can go to a level even further beyond just for the bragging rights.
Bro the street fighter 4 Cody cpu messed me up woth that move. It somehow figured out that I had no idea how to deal with it so the entire match all I could hear was "Bingo", "Bingo", "Bingo"
Literally booted up rumble fish 2 after watching this and picked lug who I didn’t know has a negative edge hundred hand slap, it’s pretty cool! Love the videos conclusion!
Waiting on console cuz that's where me and tons of others bought the game and all the dlc lol. It's cool that steam has it tho. SNK said we'd get it on PS but that was before it got delayed a few times
Hey Qmanchu! Just wanted to point out that Jill in MVC2 has one of those chargeable negative edges that shows you when it's ready. It's her 236 punches! you hold them until a little shine appears on her fist and you let it go to release the move :]
My dude you gotta come play on fightcade some time. I'm sure there are much better people to learn from but I'll gladly play and teach you a bit any time :] great video by the way. Always excited to hear what you have to say. @@qmanchu
Okay... I'll sub just cause of the effort you put into the Cowboy Bebop sequence that took some effort. I also like the editing style and choice of OST's. I'd mention the script but the video is still playing. But I'm sure it's heat and took effort too. 👌🏿 Edit: Alright you've earned my respect bro was hitting the deep cuts a lot if ppl don't talk about. Also @17:40 manga sauce please?
One example you missed that I love, pokken. In pokken many characters have release moves, and they're often a key portion of their gameplan, or sometimes it's just an extra tool to use, like darkrai's ]X[ which is a buff using a resource you gain with him, or chandelure's ]X[ which makes your debuffs go away sooner (pretty useful since her reversal debuffs you). But there are 2 characters that their entire moveset revolve around release attacks, gengar and garchomp. Garchomp has his ]X[, which by its own is just a brutal antiair and combo finisher, but if you release the button in the air it becomes a two part move, first dives down, popping the opponent up, and then does an upwards drill. However, if you use this move low to the ground, either by inmediately using it after jumping or using it falling from a jump, it only does the first dive, which as I said launches opponents, allowing for his most damaging combos. It's also a great pressure tool, as it's +4 on shield. The catch is, of course, that you have to hold down the button, and in pokken, if you are holding X, you can't use either X or A, as if you do X+A you get the counter attack. That makes it impossible to use 5[A]>j]X[ in neutral, and tbf, it would be pretty busted as 5A is a very big burst option, and it would allow for a get in for free tool that also combos and is plus on block. To get around this, you have a few options, all revolving around situations where you can't use counter attack, like in a chain of attacks, his run stance or in the air. That's why one of his most common combo starters and pressure secuences is 5Y>5[A]>j]X[. Gengar has a pretty similar dynamic but I don't think it's as interesting as chomp
Would you say that Zero from Marvel vs. Capcom would count as having Negative Edge? Especially in MvCI, where he has a list of follow-ups he can perform by releasing a charge after a special move
Hmmmm… I’ve always called it button charge, even tap in the og manual says hold down button… I tend to use negative edge within combos, when you press a button during the combo to chain, then release it at the end of a monition for the special…
It's a recent combo breaker grand finals. I'm not by my computer for a while so I can't tell you exactly but I think it's from this year if not last year
its worth noting that as of his cameo in kofXV, Marco Rodriguez is now named so across all versions, (why did they change it to "KushnoodButt" in the first place? i guess we'll never know) Anyway good vid man, hope to see Marco in city of the wolves, basic shoto moves with a special dash & negative edge is great fun
Fantastic video like always, one type i might count as different is landmine fireball type negative edge specials like janembas green air orb in fighterz or avdols high fireball in hftf
Janemba's isn't negative edge though is it? You just press EX orb and then you press H again when you wanna blow it up right? Or can you press the button and hold it to delay the explosion? I didn't play him much so maybe I missed that
@qmanchu nah you know what i was playing again again after the toriyama stuff and its a second input i have no idea why i thought it wasnt. The avdol one is right though
Lui Kang had bicycle kick which was a combo ender but then you had Jax that had that input as an invincible ground pound. Virgil's sword would be like a "puppet" type you talked about. Megaman's charge shot from mvc2 gaining power with the longer charge of the button like balrog.
One character that I was expecting to see when you mentioned negative edge to control projectiles was Area, from Street Fighter EX2/3 and Fighting EX Layer. Her main gimmick in the entire game is that she have a robotic arm (Cancer) that she can release to work as zoning, but when she do that, she can't use all the special moves that rely on her big robotic arm, including even a normal throw. As you can guess, the way to release the arm is holding a button, and when you release, the arm/projectile simply stop moving, becomes a threat for a second, then return to her.
@@qmanchu No problems! It stuck me because I played A LOT of SF EX2 in my PS1 days with my friends. Since the EX franchise was not created by Capcom, they created a ton of original characters, that later were used for Fighting Layer (which is basically SF EX4, but without the SF cast) and the upgraded one, Fighting EX Layer, which Area is playable again. Also, since this is a very old game (compared to the rest showcased in the video), don't get disappointed when her zoning is super basic and mostly used for combo extenders and cross-ups.
There´s also the charged shot of Megaman in MVC 1 and 2, he unleashes a giant fireball that will add more hits as much as you hold the fierce button, and you can use for bigger combos.
One thing that makes me question is how they use this kind of characters(Zato) in a Pad, as my thumb is struck in one button, meanwhile in other type of controlls you have all of your fingers to each button.
DNF Duel Swiftmaster comes to mind. In such a simplified fighting game, his combos are really tricky because of this mechanic and its also a super strong full screen move for neutral.
It’s funny. Negative edge also has a unique name for zato; piano’ing. Because it’s similar to holding keys down for a song on piano while still playing other keys.
one of my favorite takes on neg edge is perfecti in akatsuki blitzkampf. she has neg edge to charge and then release her lasers similar to falke in sfv before she existed. the longer she charges the more powerful they become and her ex level 2 laser is the highest damaging move in the game but requires her to charge 2 buttons for almost the entire round, essentially giving up her access to her b and c buttons. you can even charge all 3 buttons for the entire round (game only has 3 buttons) and combo her level 4 light laser into level 2 ex laser and TOD most of the cast. very impractical but very funny.
I know it's kinda niche, but I really wish you had covered Perfecti from ABK. She has an EX negative edge move that takes over a minute to charge with two of your three buttons, and is capable of a fullscreen TOD.
My bro. You didn’t go back far enough lol Street fighter 1 used negative edge for all specials press down the attack button>motion input>release attack button 2. Primal Rage was exactly like this as well 3. Shang Sun from MK 2 had a fatally that he could transform into Kintaro. The player had to hold the low punch button for 30 seconds> get the “finish him”>then release to activate the fatality. Good times
I know about SF1 and how the specials work but I really see no reason to talk about that when the video is about the unique applications for specific special moves, not negative edge itself. The MK2 thing is cool though, I didn't know that!
Interestingly, Hilde's negative edge moves used to be like much more turn around punch in Soul Calibur 4 and 5, changing properties depending on how long you held the button. Rather than being a stronger version of the same move however, they were completely different moves entirely. It was only in SC6 where they moved to the system of using what direction you're holding on release to change the move that comes out. She actually still has a turn around punch-like property in SC6 where if you hold either A or B for 30 seconds and release, you get an unblockable that does over 50%! These are mostly considered not strong because of how central the base charge moves are to her game.
In Pokken Tournament almost *_every_* character has a charge-and-release move. Garchomp's probably the most prolific with it, with his Twister being a charge Heavy for 2 seconds then release input, resulting in a plus on block auto-safejump which can be comboed into and out of because it launches.. Or Suicune who can fire off a tracking tornado with multiple levels based on how long it was charged for.. or Decidueye who has two different moves like that.. Or Machamp's Scary Face, a screenwide non-damaging blast which speed debuffs if it lands... And other than powerful attacks, the input is also often used for the likes of buffing or other status moves, like Braixen uses Sunny Day to empower their next special, Shadow-Mewtwo has Recover to heal himself, Blastoise has withdraw to give them a defense buff and being the fastest way to go into his stance, or Darkrai who gives both attack and defense buff depending on how many stacks he spends on it.. Etc... _... Or in one case a joke move with Blaziken's "Floppy Bird"... a backflip which knocks himself down..._
Pokken is one of those games that I played sooo briefly. Just literally a dozen or so matches with friends before they decided to drop it. Every time I learn something new about it, I wish I played it more
Thumbnail: ChocoKarate (miss me with that localized name WTAF) has a supper that you mash to power up like Yamazaki, but unlike Yamazaki his different forms have different uses! Not a Swiss Army Knife level of difference, but it is a difference...
No mention of Weapon Lord for SNES and Genesis/MegaDrive? Some specials are done with motion then button press, while other specials are button held (negative edge) then motion. You can create some interesting combos when you perform motion-button-press to execute one special then, while holding that button, do another motion to perform a different move. I think that's another aspect of negative edge that wasn't covered. No complaints, just a mention.
Yeah Akshon Esports just did a video about weaponlords and that game isn't really what I wanted to explore in this regard. And I do love using negative edge for things like that, especially in rekkas but sometimes it's better to not get too technical in a video like this. I appreciate you bringing it up though cuz I love intricacies like this. Charge partitions too
I have written up several MUGEN/IKEMEN characters with button charge mechanics Mr. Volton: hold P, release on P attack to Taser Discharge hold K, release on K attack to Railgun Discharge
His regular 5H is a button press and I think steady aim is a stance where you enter it and just press the button to shoot. Unless they've changed that since his release, which I know they have reworked him a bit
From before I started playing fighting games seriously, One of my favourite moves was Megaman's megabuster from the marvel vs capcom series.. Most characters from non fighting game genres feel a bit foreign when ported to a fighting game. Megaman felt way more familiar to it's original game because of that one button. tap for shot, hold for charged.
If you play guilty gear strive you already know HC amd Zato get some nasty tech for negative edge specials. HC to the point that punishable moves canceled into negative edge gunshot release become gapless and slightly plus
While it's not useful really, you should note that since Street Fighter 3, Makoto's Hayate (rekka) can be charged 5 levels to do more damage and cause knockdown. It's really only there to hide your movements or make your opponent think, but it exists as a negative edge charge move that's similar to Zonk and TAP. QCF and hold punch for fun. Thanks for the video!
You missed Yukiko from Persona 4 arena ultimax ;) She can do the move + press a button to set a fire trap on the screen and you have the option to hold the button and release whenever you want. The complexity adds when you realize you can set multiples fire traps and must hold many buttons and release in the order you want. Her combos are mind boggling to execute
Poor old SF Alpha Birdie, doesn't get a look in.But I suppose his charge up headbutt is basically Balrog's turning punch in that series of games. I recall you could hold all the buttons down and release 2 at a time to get the move 3 times in quick succession.
Not a Fighting Game but reminds me of how the Combo System in the Megaman Zero Games work. You would always hold both Attack Buttons to Charge your Special Moves
![Waiter waiter! More Riichi please! 🎀🦇 [Riichi City + Warframe]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BfvtaWFyinI/mqdefault.jpg)
Rollback is already on Samsho for those wondering
I thought it was another beta? Or is it just a permanent beta?
@@qmanchu it was on permanent beta until ready, its finally ready as of a few days ago.
@@mdgiudice8797 W
@@qmanchuI'm surprised you didn't know about this since SNK has been very vocal. About the Beta's status.
Please pin that champs comment 🙏🏾
Finally!
My favorite negative edge thing are aoko's orbs in melty, the way they work is you use a 421 motion to set them, but they don't go off and hit the opponent until you release the button. Seems simple enough at first, and then you realize the orb actually stays as long as you hold any one button, not necessarily the one you used to set it, so in combos with orb extensions you often have to constantly juggle what button you're holding to be able to use all 3 attack buttons while holding the orb, I unfortunately don't have the brain capacity to do orb combos but they look really cool
Based FatYoshi comment
She's the character I play and love how much creativity and freedom that character gives you. Honestly one of the most player expression characters ever made. She definitely makes me love negative edge moves. Fpan games have some of the most interesting negative edge Hilda has one that is an overhead and gets larger the longer it's held.
Zero’s buster in UMVC3 is a pretty standard negative edge projectile, intill you start charging it longer. It’s got 3 levels and on the third level it becomes one of the highest durability projectiles in the game, travels super fast, and can cancel from any special move. Because Zero has teleport dash that goes through oppents, this allows for multilayered unseeable crossup mix that is crazy plus.
i got randomly interested in vatista and decided to give her a try and completely fell in love with her combination of charge and negative edge alongside how elegantly beautiful her animations are,such an amazing character. i spent a lot in training mode trying to wrap my head in these new concepts for me ! i really adore negative edge in general and been super interested in trying more characters that use them since then
Not a fighting game but I love how negative edge is used in devil may cry, sin devil trigger, Nero's charged shot, Vergil's judgement cut, it's everywhere and always super satisfying
As a pad player, those are hell. I had to remap S, H and D to shoulder buttons to release Justice's Nukes in GGXXAC+R
Pokken tournament has a ton of negative edge moves, typically referred to as release moves by the community. They can range from more TAP or zonk type moves, to charge type moves, to projectiles, to utility, to defensive options, to almost character defining tools, and even more. Id recommended checking them out and the game as a whole, its really cool!
Yeah. And Pokken is such a fun and entertaining game. Great to play and great to watch. I would like to see it more on tournaments
Pokken is underrated AF
Perfecti in Akatsuki Blitzkamp has a move that’s like TAP but there’s a few key differences that make it far more compelling, namely that a.) this is a three button game, b.) Perfecti is a low damage zoner who really needs access to her buttons, c.) the strongest version requires both B and C to be held down. This basically means that if she wants damage, or even potentially a ToD off of the Lvl 2 EX, she needs to properly manage her buttons to not be incredibly vulnerable.
😮
One of my favorite applications of negative edge are just simple delayed projectiles. They are such simple tools when it comes to being setplay enablers, but they add a lot of depth given how flexible they are. Something as simple as just being able to meaty with the projectile, or being able to save it to cover a second mixup can give an otherwise simple character a striking amount of depth.
Also, unrelated, but negative edge always feels great in combos.
There's a crazy curiosity for shizumaru in SS5 special edition, where your negative edge works on character select screen from the moment his portrait appears, so if you lock in shizumaru fast and hold it and your opponent takes a lot of time to choose their character, they take a lot of damage for free if they dont expect it coming.
Hidden depth like this is what makes fighting games feel so special to me
Who's gonna tell em...?
@@justsomeguywithkaminasshad7145 not me, that's for sure. We used to play a lot and I often abused it just for the fun of their surprised faces when they took 60% in a single hit.
Isn’t Shizumaru a dude? In fact, doesn’t “maru” in Japanese names simply mean “boy”?
@@xcrackervolleyx true dude, didn't even realise I used the wrong pronouns. Thanks for pointing it out.
1:05 ratchet and clank fighting game is something i never knew i wanted
Most of what I know about Negative Edge comes from Guilty Gear, where Eddie acts on button release, and that Third Strike counts button releases for most specials, so you could piano the buttons and have six chances to make tight links. Thanks for the deep dive on this.
Blazblue
Carl Clover
So yea we have 3 types of negative edge:
Levels, like tap
Charges, like Hilde
and Stores, like Juri in SF4 (where you dont HAVE to hold the button but it gives you the option)
I was very surprised at the lack of mention of Primal Rage and Liu Kang's bicycle kick from Mortal Kombat until you mentioned you weren't into retro games. Primal Rage Arcade release decided to make all the special moves motion + negative edge which was and still is imo counter intuitive. This was so ill received that on some home console ports and the unreleased Primal Rage 2 they made it traditional motion + button input. Great video very enjoyable watch.
My best friend was a Cody main in SF4. Between Zonk and Criminal Upper, it really felt like there was no good time to press a button against him.
The amount of research and knowledge required to make this kind of video is nothing short of impressive! Good job dawg
Learning more every single day! The comments have doubled my knowledge on examples for the topic already :)
The big unmentioned ones that come to mind are El Fuerte's Q bomb, SF4 Juri's projectiles and KOF 14 Najd's drop kick (the shadow of Raiden)
Didn't play Najd in 14! That's wild I missed that!
All of Jean from VF5?
Zero and Virgil in Umvc3
Can you explain on juris projectiles please
It's often overlooked, but MK2 implemented these sorts of moves with Mileena's sai throw and Liu Kang's bicycle kick.
Yeah I'm not a big MK guy at all but I've seen some people say that! Some fatalities had it too apparently which is rly cool to me
Also if you were wondering why Soul Calibur players call this "charging", its because Soul Calibur and Tekken have some moves that you can hold down to get a stronger version.
So it's a combined technique?
@@Ramsey276one No, its just an explanation as to why for people who play namco 3d fighter, something like holding on to a button to level it up before releasing it would have a different name from how a 2d fighter player would.
I was awaiting the *release* of this vid as soon as you teased it 😎
In KI Gold on N64 (probably this was in the arcade versions as well?), Jago had a red endokuken as well as his normal one. Its inputs were 236 then punch negative edge. It was red, knocked down, and I believe also cancelled normal endokuken in certain situations, allowing you to combo fireballs in a way similar to a fireball xx super input. As far as I know, it was the only special move in KI Gold that was triggered on negative edge.
Also: Butt
I've never really played KI but that's so sick
It's also on arcade KI 2, and on KI 1 arcade and snes but you have to do a combo breaker first in order to have red endokuken
That was a very in depth exploration of negative edge. Thanks for the video! Much respect, and please come to Brazil.
When I do I promise I'll let everyone know! I'll be there soon
SNK tackled the concept way sooner than that.
Big Bear in Fatal Fury 2/Special has the Super Missile Dropkick; although IIRC, it's committed to a charge on D (heavy kick). It's the first time outside of SF2 I saw that implemented... and KI took the concept to a whole new level with exclusive revised move version using this input method (ie: moves that can juggle vs. moves that can't).
This is the first video I’ve seen that both explains negative edge perfectly and sold me on trying out Carl.
I wanna try him too lmao
NEW QMANCHU JUST DROPPED! Happy holidays Qmanchu!
Happy Holidays!
A cool fact: Krushnood Butt original name is Marco Rodriguez. Nobody knows for sure why the U.S. localization team changed his name for the arcade version of Garou, specially since his original name fits very well his background as a Brazilian Fighter
I've noticed the names go back and forth and wondered what that was about
@@qmanchuYeah, that's weird, since that name only appears in English translations of SNK games (he has cameos in a few games), while in every other translation -Spanish, French, Portuguese etc. - localization teams kept his original name.
Oh there’s a number of really cool examples of this kind of move in a 3D fighter in the form of Pokken DX of all things. Pokken regularly changes between a 3D and a 2D fighter mid match but most of the moves like this are useable in both. Notably, Machamp straight up just has Balrog turn punch. Plenty of other characters have a special move that only comes out after they release the special button after holding it for a few seconds and Darkrai and Decidueye both have a charge move like this for their light attack button, their heavy attack button, and their special attack button
Pokken was such an interesting game that I wasn't able to give More of a shot. Had the original on Wii U and played with friends but they didn't stick with it, so neither did I
If we're talking about SNK then Big Bear (Raiden when he does a face turn) has had the negative edge dropkick since 1992 in Fatal Fury 2
👏thumbs up for such editing prowess for such a small channel. Dude got some editing skills.
Thanks a bunch! Been working on that hard
You forgot the OG T Hawk, who had no whiff animation on throws so you could do negative edge shenanigans with option selects and inescapable throw loops.
There is also Zero from UMvC3/MvCI where the charge has levels, the release cancel special moves, and as long as you are holding a button down you are keeping your charge so in most cases you dont lose access to buttons
Always be charging is mandatory for playing zero
The only couple I can think of off the top of my head you didn't mention were older MK games for Liu Kang bicycle kick and Mileena roll. Kitana's fatality in MK 2 is also hold a button for 5 seconds or something like that
Ok thank you for educating me on negative edge and its applications outside of puppeteer characters, cuz previously I only knew about Zato-1 and Carl Clover.
I’ve been working on my own platform fighter with some friends for a while now, and we have one character that has 4 different focus trees like an RPG character or something, with each tree corresponding to a different elemental magic book. We’ve been struggling to figure out a way to implement it, but this gave me the idea to have it tied to a negative edge mechanic of his mediums and heavies, as well as being able to use the other 2 books by pressing the alt button as you initially input your medium or heavy (the alt button keeps whatever input you have on the control stick while it is held, but allows for new control stick inputs to be read purely for motion inputs and not actual movement, and also is how you do push block and certain unique specials, but that’s only for 1 or 2 characters).
Anyways, thank you again! Awesome video!
Damn that's a really cool idea! Please find me if you ever want to promote the game or something lol. That character sounds awesome
@@qmanchu Wow, thank you for the offer!
@@qmanchuokay well we kinda scrapped the idea. One because we changed the buttons to have A and B instead of light, medium and heavy, and two, the others on the team didn’t really like it for that character. So we have a different negative edge character. He has 2 rings that he can throw out by holding A or B, kinda like Vatista. Releasing the button plus a direction does an attack and each ring has a different attack for each direction. Holding neutral and releasing teleports him to that ring. All of this is tied to a unique resource.
Aside from TAP which I definitely used when trying out Cracker Jack and Balrog, I think the first time I actually heard of what negative edge was happened to be when I looked up how SF1's specials worked: The reason behind why they are considered difficult is that aside from the strict timing, you have to negative edge the button presses instead of simply pressing the button after the motion. Sagat was still a pain in the ass even with consistent Hadoukens but...yeah. That thought aside, really neat video about this little detail
Never heard of Balrog's TAP till now (dunno a lot about fighting games) but I absolutely love the design of it
To think, I’ve been dealing with some negative edge stuff this whole time.
There's actually a 4th type of negative edge move, kind of. Basically, you hold down the button, then do a motion input and the special move will come out. As far as I'm aware these motions have only been in 2 games, Primal Rage and Weapon Lord, and I don't think they even have a name, I like to call them prep motions since you have the button you want prepped before you do the motion, though I guess we can also call them negative edge motions. The devs for both games said they chose these types of motions so that players can do the motions with more intent. But I think these types of motions have the potential to be easier to do since you don't have to press a button quickly after the motion and can just hold down the button beforehand. If you ever see this comment, maybe you can make a video about these unique motion inputs because I find them pretty fascinating and there's very little documentation about them.
This is actually the normal kind of negative edge. Karin's hit confirms worked well with this since you could press cr.Mk and then input the special but only release the button if you hit the opponent which would trigger the special attack.
Akshon Esports did a video about Weaponlord around the time I made this! Haven't seen it yet but I've heard it's good
Yeah limiting of a toolkit for a big power move or ability is pretty cool and more simple than you think yet exciting as you learn about it.
Also I always heard it as a charge move like in megaman just holding charge buster, you're charing the move.
Charging is way bigger outside of fighting games, like in baseball games or party games as well.
I think it's more universal in games in general and fighting games is actually the outlier against the rule since charging in those games is usually holding back(most of the time); where therefore it's for motion input instead of a action input.
An implementation of negative edge I've seen in fighting games that I think is pretty cool is Pet Shop in Jojo All Star Battle R. While he's known for being a beast in Heritage for opressive he is, ASBR Pet Shop is definitely on the niche side and is someone you rarely see played for how tricky he is to use. His negative edge is an air ok projectile that tracks the opponents last position. This in of itself isn't too interesting, but it plays into his more air based playstyle, having a command jump and mode that lets Pet Shop fly and use ground normals in the air. You should check it out sometime, since it's pretty interesting imo. Great video btw.
I actually looked into this one but I don't know enough about that game to feel like I'd have done it justice! Thanks for sharing cuz that's rly cool!
@@qmanchu I see. ASBR is definitely a very niche game but it's fun. It's an easy to learn hard to master game imo, with a lot of references to Jojo if that wasn't already obvious. Be it silly stuff like 3 characters with revives or universal otg taunt combos, the game has a lot to talk about. Maybe one day you can do a video on it if you ever pick it up.
I play Lisa Lisa with my brother when we play cuz she's easy and her mix is nuts
Pokken also had some Negative Edge in a few characters (I know Garchomp had one but I can't remember any others. Maybe Gengar), and it made combos super fun to pull off
Pokken was on the cusp of something great imo
I think a reason why negative edge moves are becoming less common might be part of the transition to console. I don't think it's a huge stretch considering they were still fairly common up through the 09 phase but have been getting less and less frequent in more modern games that aren't initially arcade releases.
While it isn't necessarily changing everyone's input methods, negative edge moves don't really feel that natural on a pad where you are only using 2 or 3 fingers to hit your attack buttons, and where usually people will only have the luxury of holding the heavy punch/kick buttons unless they remap the inputs (holding one of your face buttons shuts off 4 buttons instead of just 1 unless you claw, at which point you really might as well just get a stick).
For example, it's not a fighting game but in Devil May Cry 4 and 5, Nero's charge shot is just a straight upgrade from his regular gun so there is basically no reason to not always be holding the gun button. But even if you remap it to a shoulder button so that this doesn't interrupt your main buttons and camera control, it can get pretty rough on your hand holding a shoulder button almost uninterrupted for many minutes, or hours. That's something that I would think a developer would rather not deal with.
I do suspect that if Boxer is added to SF6 that he'll retain his TAP since it's a classic move, though.
I think you're right. I have to change my control scheme to play Vatista in Melty because she simply doesn't work with normal pad controls.
SF6 got rid of the mashing inputs for probably that reason and I hate it. I really hope if we get Balrog or Cody, they have these moves but honestly, the evidence shows otherwise
In the case of Nero though, holding charge at all times is not even close to necessary for beating the game or getting S ranks. So I think it adds a lot of depth in giving these different options varying difficulty that each have their own drawbacks. But if you can master using all of them at once, you can go to a level even further beyond just for the bragging rights.
Bro the street fighter 4 Cody cpu messed me up woth that move. It somehow figured out that I had no idea how to deal with it so the entire match all I could hear was "Bingo", "Bingo", "Bingo"
Literally booted up rumble fish 2 after watching this and picked lug who I didn’t know has a negative edge hundred hand slap, it’s pretty cool! Love the videos conclusion!
15:10 that's not Character Select from Infinite that's the Main Menu theme from SF3 3rd Strike
Might need to put a note around the 8:35 mark as rollback got added to samsho 10 days ago, 9 days prior to release of this video.
Waiting on console cuz that's where me and tons of others bought the game and all the dlc lol. It's cool that steam has it tho. SNK said we'd get it on PS but that was before it got delayed a few times
Hey Qmanchu! Just wanted to point out that Jill in MVC2 has one of those chargeable negative edges that shows you when it's ready. It's her 236 punches! you hold them until a little shine appears on her fist and you let it go to release the move :]
I never played MVC2 but that's awesome! Love learning about games more and more. Thanks for sharing
My dude you gotta come play on fightcade some time. I'm sure there are much better people to learn from but I'll gladly play and teach you a bit any time :] great video by the way. Always excited to hear what you have to say. @@qmanchu
@blooddumpster3427 only game I play on there is CvS2 but I'd be down! DM me on twitter sometime!
Okay... I'll sub just cause of the effort you put into the Cowboy Bebop sequence that took some effort. I also like the editing style and choice of OST's.
I'd mention the script but the video is still playing. But I'm sure it's heat and took effort too. 👌🏿
Edit: Alright you've earned my respect bro was hitting the deep cuts a lot if ppl don't talk about.
Also @17:40 manga sauce please?
Young Ladies Don't Play Fighting Games. Glad you enjoyed the video! I always try to learn something new when putting these together
@@qmanchu Thanks Q.
When you're talking about early games, I don't know how you miss MKII Jax earth quake and Milena's sai. Both are negative edge.
One example you missed that I love, pokken. In pokken many characters have release moves, and they're often a key portion of their gameplan, or sometimes it's just an extra tool to use, like darkrai's ]X[ which is a buff using a resource you gain with him, or chandelure's ]X[ which makes your debuffs go away sooner (pretty useful since her reversal debuffs you). But there are 2 characters that their entire moveset revolve around release attacks, gengar and garchomp. Garchomp has his ]X[, which by its own is just a brutal antiair and combo finisher, but if you release the button in the air it becomes a two part move, first dives down, popping the opponent up, and then does an upwards drill. However, if you use this move low to the ground, either by inmediately using it after jumping or using it falling from a jump, it only does the first dive, which as I said launches opponents, allowing for his most damaging combos. It's also a great pressure tool, as it's +4 on shield. The catch is, of course, that you have to hold down the button, and in pokken, if you are holding X, you can't use either X or A, as if you do X+A you get the counter attack. That makes it impossible to use 5[A]>j]X[ in neutral, and tbf, it would be pretty busted as 5A is a very big burst option, and it would allow for a get in for free tool that also combos and is plus on block. To get around this, you have a few options, all revolving around situations where you can't use counter attack, like in a chain of attacks, his run stance or in the air. That's why one of his most common combo starters and pressure secuences is 5Y>5[A]>j]X[. Gengar has a pretty similar dynamic but I don't think it's as interesting as chomp
Awesome!!!Big Like 🌟💗
Amazing video man. God I love fighting games.
I'm right there with you brother. I fall in love with them more and more with each new one I try
After Boxer in sf2, it was axel hawk and big bear in fatal fury 2 and special that had a hold move.
Would you say that Zero from Marvel vs. Capcom would count as having Negative Edge? Especially in MvCI, where he has a list of follow-ups he can perform by releasing a charge after a special move
Yes indeed
Hmmmm… I’ve always called it button charge, even tap in the og manual says hold down button… I tend to use negative edge within combos, when you press a button during the combo to chain, then release it at the end of a monition for the special…
Good video. Where is the video for the DOA6 match at 11:51? I typed in Stevomaru vs hoodless but I could not find it.
It's a recent combo breaker grand finals. I'm not by my computer for a while so I can't tell you exactly but I think it's from this year if not last year
its worth noting that as of his cameo in kofXV, Marco Rodriguez is now named so across all versions,
(why did they change it to "KushnoodButt" in the first place? i guess we'll never know)
Anyway good vid man, hope to see Marco in city of the wolves, basic shoto moves with a special dash & negative edge is great fun
At the beginning of this comment I really hoped you could explain this
Fantastic video like always, one type i might count as different is landmine fireball type negative edge specials like janembas green air orb in fighterz or avdols high fireball in hftf
Janemba's isn't negative edge though is it? You just press EX orb and then you press H again when you wanna blow it up right? Or can you press the button and hold it to delay the explosion? I didn't play him much so maybe I missed that
@qmanchu nah you know what i was playing again again after the toriyama stuff and its a second input i have no idea why i thought it wasnt. The avdol one is right though
How could you bring this topic and not mention Jojo HFTF :')!!
Great video mate. Keep it up!
I'm ngl the biggest reason is because I haven't been able to get fightcade to work since November lol.
I have to hop on the discord to troubleshoot
@@qmanchu jking mate, you're excused ゴゴゴゴ
Was that a FUCKING KEYBOARD!? MAD MAN!!!
Lui Kang had bicycle kick which was a combo ender but then you had Jax that had that input as an invincible ground pound. Virgil's sword would be like a "puppet" type you talked about. Megaman's charge shot from mvc2 gaining power with the longer charge of the button like balrog.
One character that I was expecting to see when you mentioned negative edge to control projectiles was Area, from Street Fighter EX2/3 and Fighting EX Layer.
Her main gimmick in the entire game is that she have a robotic arm (Cancer) that she can release to work as zoning, but when she do that, she can't use all the special moves that rely on her big robotic arm, including even a normal throw. As you can guess, the way to release the arm is holding a button, and when you release, the arm/projectile simply stop moving, becomes a threat for a second, then return to her.
Never played those games! I looked through the movesets but nothing stuck out to me so thanks for letting me know! Sounds dope and I'll check it out
@@qmanchu No problems! It stuck me because I played A LOT of SF EX2 in my PS1 days with my friends. Since the EX franchise was not created by Capcom, they created a ton of original characters, that later were used for Fighting Layer (which is basically SF EX4, but without the SF cast) and the upgraded one, Fighting EX Layer, which Area is playable again.
Also, since this is a very old game (compared to the rest showcased in the video), don't get disappointed when her zoning is super basic and mostly used for combo extenders and cross-ups.
There´s also the charged shot of Megaman in MVC 1 and 2, he unleashes a giant fireball that will add more hits as much as you hold the fierce button, and you can use for bigger combos.
One thing that makes me question is how they use this kind of characters(Zato) in a Pad, as my thumb is struck in one button, meanwhile in other type of controlls you have all of your fingers to each button.
DNF Duel Swiftmaster comes to mind.
In such a simplified fighting game, his combos are really tricky because of this mechanic and its also a super strong full screen move for neutral.
It’s funny. Negative edge also has a unique name for zato; piano’ing. Because it’s similar to holding keys down for a song on piano while still playing other keys.
one of my favorite takes on neg edge is perfecti in akatsuki blitzkampf. she has neg edge to charge and then release her lasers similar to falke in sfv before she existed. the longer she charges the more powerful they become and her ex level 2 laser is the highest damaging move in the game but requires her to charge 2 buttons for almost the entire round, essentially giving up her access to her b and c buttons. you can even charge all 3 buttons for the entire round (game only has 3 buttons) and combo her level 4 light laser into level 2 ex laser and TOD most of the cast. very impractical but very funny.
Amazing video
I know it's kinda niche, but I really wish you had covered Perfecti from ABK. She has an EX negative edge move that takes over a minute to charge with two of your three buttons, and is capable of a fullscreen TOD.
2:40 nice one!
15:00 same reaction as the commentators, *AND THEY KNOW THE GAME!*
My bro. You didn’t go back far enough lol
Street fighter 1 used negative edge for all specials press down the attack button>motion input>release attack button
2. Primal Rage was exactly like this as well
3. Shang Sun from MK 2 had a fatally that he could transform into Kintaro. The player had to hold the low punch button for 30 seconds> get the “finish him”>then release to activate the fatality. Good times
I know about SF1 and how the specials work but I really see no reason to talk about that when the video is about the unique applications for specific special moves, not negative edge itself.
The MK2 thing is cool though, I didn't know that!
Interestingly, Hilde's negative edge moves used to be like much more turn around punch in Soul Calibur 4 and 5, changing properties depending on how long you held the button. Rather than being a stronger version of the same move however, they were completely different moves entirely. It was only in SC6 where they moved to the system of using what direction you're holding on release to change the move that comes out. She actually still has a turn around punch-like property in SC6 where if you hold either A or B for 30 seconds and release, you get an unblockable that does over 50%! These are mostly considered not strong because of how central the base charge moves are to her game.
Thanks for explaining more about it! That's hella cool
In Pokken Tournament almost *_every_* character has a charge-and-release move.
Garchomp's probably the most prolific with it, with his Twister being a charge Heavy for 2 seconds then release input, resulting in a plus on block auto-safejump which can be comboed into and out of because it launches.. Or Suicune who can fire off a tracking tornado with multiple levels based on how long it was charged for.. or Decidueye who has two different moves like that.. Or Machamp's Scary Face, a screenwide non-damaging blast which speed debuffs if it lands...
And other than powerful attacks, the input is also often used for the likes of buffing or other status moves, like Braixen uses Sunny Day to empower their next special, Shadow-Mewtwo has Recover to heal himself, Blastoise has withdraw to give them a defense buff and being the fastest way to go into his stance, or Darkrai who gives both attack and defense buff depending on how many stacks he spends on it..
Etc...
_... Or in one case a joke move with Blaziken's "Floppy Bird"... a backflip which knocks himself down..._
Pokken is one of those games that I played sooo briefly. Just literally a dozen or so matches with friends before they decided to drop it. Every time I learn something new about it, I wish I played it more
I love this kind of characters lmao. The tap characters holding buttons not the charge characters
ok what manga is that at 17:40 i have never before seen a manga that has a character play on an arcade stick
just reverse image searched from a screenshot, seems to be "tai ari deshita"
Yeah Young ladies Don't Play Fighting Games. I've only read 1/3 of it and I can't tell exactly what it is yet lol
12:05 there's the monarch!
She IS a ruler, right??
12:40
O
M
G
She has more power in the sequel!!
You didn't mention Weaponlords on Snes and Megadrive. I think all special moves in that game are negative edge
Yupp funnily enough, Akshon esports did a video on it right before I was able to finish producing this so it didn't feel right talking about it
I was a c viper main back then and I used to do HP H.thunder knuckle into feint... that also counts as a negative edege😅
Good for mentioning is almost every character has charge special in Body Blows by Team17 for Amiga.
Thumbnail: ChocoKarate (miss me with that localized name WTAF) has a supper that you mash to power up like Yamazaki, but unlike Yamazaki his different forms have different uses! Not a Swiss Army Knife level of difference, but it is a difference...
You can tell who the SNK players are if they refer to a chargeable negative edge attack as a "dropkick".
7:29 wait, did you say it BACKWARDS?
I'M pretty sure it's Fighter's History Dynamite: Karnov's Revenge
I've seen a few different names but the one that I grew up with was Revenge of Karnov which is likely just a translation thing
@@qmanchu Yeah, probably
I believe Ms. Fortune in Skullgirls has a similar negative edge control scheme for puppet (head)
No mention of Weapon Lord for SNES and Genesis/MegaDrive? Some specials are done with motion then button press, while other specials are button held (negative edge) then motion. You can create some interesting combos when you perform motion-button-press to execute one special then, while holding that button, do another motion to perform a different move. I think that's another aspect of negative edge that wasn't covered. No complaints, just a mention.
Yeah Akshon Esports just did a video about weaponlords and that game isn't really what I wanted to explore in this regard. And I do love using negative edge for things like that, especially in rekkas but sometimes it's better to not get too technical in a video like this. I appreciate you bringing it up though cuz I love intricacies like this. Charge partitions too
Would something like yuzuriha's(under night) stance count as a negative edge input
Probably but I already used her in my stance character video so I couldn't fit her in her under good conscience lol
Primal Rage and Weaponlord were fighting games in which almost all moves were negative edged. Kinda surprised they were not mentioned....
9:29 no wonder I struggled so much... *I WAS MISSING TWO MOVES!!!*
Q_Q
I have written up several MUGEN/IKEMEN characters with button charge mechanics
Mr. Volton: hold P, release on P attack to Taser Discharge
hold K, release on K attack to Railgun Discharge
8:40 lightice mentioned lol
Megaman, X, and Zero in the MvC games have Negative Edge moves.
The charge shot.
Kakyoin from Heritage has negative edge invisible traps, I've never encountered any other character like that :(
Also kenshi works like zato in mk1
The bullet from Happy Chaos in Strive is fired when you release the button, right?
His regular 5H is a button press and I think steady aim is a stance where you enter it and just press the button to shoot. Unless they've changed that since his release, which I know they have reworked him a bit
From before I started playing fighting games seriously, One of my favourite moves was Megaman's megabuster from the marvel vs capcom series.. Most characters from non fighting game genres feel a bit foreign when ported to a fighting game. Megaman felt way more familiar to it's original game because of that one button. tap for shot, hold for charged.
Half-round Charge Mega Buster/Jill Tackle
XD
Don’t forget, Negative Edge predates all other special move inputs. Or were you not “a bad enough dude to rescue the president?”
If you play guilty gear strive you already know HC amd Zato get some nasty tech for negative edge specials.
HC to the point that punishable moves canceled into negative edge gunshot release become gapless and slightly plus
22 years later and I still fucking love Cowboy Bebop. Thanks for that edit.
While it's not useful really, you should note that since Street Fighter 3, Makoto's Hayate (rekka) can be charged 5 levels to do more damage and cause knockdown. It's really only there to hide your movements or make your opponent think, but it exists as a negative edge charge move that's similar to Zonk and TAP. QCF and hold punch for fun. Thanks for the video!
I didn't know it worked particularly like that! Thanks for sharing. I've learned so much from the comments
You missed Yukiko from Persona 4 arena ultimax ;) She can do the move + press a button to set a fire trap on the screen and you have the option to hold the button and release whenever you want. The complexity adds when you realize you can set multiples fire traps and must hold many buttons and release in the order you want. Her combos are mind boggling to execute
I barely actually played p4A so that's sick. I wasn't very good at games then and I played Yosuke lol. Thanks for the addition!
Huh? I didn't know yukiko bnbs used 236a/b I just do flame dance loops(which still are kinda hard tbh)
Poor old SF Alpha Birdie, doesn't get a look in.But I suppose his charge up headbutt is basically Balrog's turning punch in that series of games. I recall you could hold all the buttons down and release 2 at a time to get the move 3 times in quick succession.
Yeah honestly I wanted to speak more on him but I'm honestly surprised I made a video this long about such a silky topic
Not a Fighting Game but reminds me of how the Combo System in the Megaman Zero Games work. You would always hold both Attack Buttons to Charge your Special Moves
GBA Zero games
Hold A AND R