Archetype Archive - The Shoto
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- Опубликовано: 13 сен 2024
- Today's archetype is the ancestor of all archetypes, the shoto. But for the fact that the very first fighting game character was one of them, the definition for them is pretty rocky and ill-defined. So I'm here to burn some bridges, set some things straight, and make some bold claims on what I think constitutes a Shoto and its playstyle in the modern day.
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You sort of touched on this, but the reason many (myself included) consider characters like Sol anime shotos is because the overall context is different. While it wouldn't be in most other games, in the context of GG Sols kit is balanced and relatively honest, in most cases even moreso than Ky (Stun-edge alone has way more potential for neutral skips and degenerate oki than anything in Sol's kit).
He has different specials simply because there are way more vectors for approach and defense in anime games.
And while I agree that Ken has seen a dramatic change in the past decade, this is part of what makes me reluctant to define him as anything but a shoto. Yes, Ken is more aggressive in 5 and 6, but 5 and 6 are more aggressive games on the whole. Notably the battle planner for both was Woshige, a well know GG player. As blasphemous as it sounds, I'd argue that Ryu is the one that needs to hang up the mantle. His kit doesn't provide the same coverage that it used to and he's been bad to mediocre for years. Capcom probably just feels like they can't afford to change their poster boy.
Jokes aside, I also like putting meaning of "shoto" in the context of the game. Mk9 Johnny was mentioned in the video. He is anything but honest. But in the context of mk9, you can probably say it
He’s been seeing a lot of use tbh. He’s the 3rd to 4th most used character at high levels.
@@Aaa-vp6ug ryu? Dude come on ken ed m bison akuma and a lot more characters are more common
Emphasizing playstyle over 'what moves does the character have' is a good approach. From a game design perspective it seems more interesting to think about "how do these characters play differently" than "what moves do they have"
I go over this in more depth in my "what makes an archetype" video. Theres an idea i call facilitation where you look at all a characters moves in order to define the situations they are trying to create or adress with the various aspects of their kit. And then see how transferable that is across different fighting games. Thats a really brief summary but check it out if you're interested in that!
Will do, thanks @@DarumaFGC
Luigi is a shoto change my mind
His up B doesn’t have any ability and isn’t an anti air in the slightest. It’s not a DP, it just has the same aesthetic as a jumping uppercut. It’s like saying Ness and Lucas are echo fighters.
He is only superficially similar to Mario & Dr. Mario (who usually are accepted as Smash Bros' takes on "shotos") but otherwise plays very differently. As another comment pointed out, his Up-B isn't a DP since it isn't a reversal: it's solely a kill + vertical recovery option.
If anything, Luigi is more of a semi-grappler.
@@marin9412Yeah, it's not a reversal like Mario & Dr. Mario's Up-Bs. Luigi's Up-B is pretty much just a risky low% kill option.
are you stupid?
Ryu is a shoto if you would like a smash bros example.
2:55 I wanted to share my experiences with this. As a Sol main, when I started playing SF6, I chose Marisa because big damage and plus on block normals.
Eventually, though, I realised that Marisa just wasn't doing it for me, and I swapped to Ryu. I thought I played Sol because funny gorilla, but in truth it was for his respectably well-rounded tool kit, straightfoward gameplan, and lack of gimmicks.
Having finished the video: Shit, that's brilliant. I had never thought of just how the fireball forms its own mixup game. Sol definitely isn't a shoto.
Its nice to see you go through a journey and change your thoughts on this topic in real time. I go over my thoughts on Sol in my Brawler video. I think Marisa plays most like a Bully of my archetype archive videos. Theyre similar but with different goals and situations they look to create.
Super glad to see this series back up and running. Loved all of these you’ve done!
2 more next month, hopefully. Look forward to it!
A shoto has at least 2 out of 3 of these moves; projectile, uppercut or hurricane kick variation. It doesn't matter what other additional moves they have or command input used. For example Robert in KOF is still a shoto even though he uses charge inputs.
I did think about going the 2/3 route, this script involved months of research. But the thing is, there are SO many characters with a projectile and DP. theres even zoners with both. You wind up including a ton of characters who play nothing like eachother. While i try to keep definitions to a set of tools that interplay with eachother to create the same gameplan across different games. Hence what i landed on here.
Shotos are like Mario in his various spin offs: They're not the best at any one thing, but they're competent at most things which makes them easy to learn and devastating when mastered (heck Smash Bros Mario even has two Shoto staples on lock with his Fireball and Super Jump Punch).
Yeah, most games main characters mirror this archetype in some way to try and teach fighting game fundamentals, although some, like for example super saiyan 1 goku in fighterZ will miss a core element like no projectile invulnerability cause it doesnt fit their game. So in that example, he becomes more combo focused and hitconfirm focused than neutral focused.
Mario can't be a shoto because smash isn't a fighting game
personally i consider ken to be more of a hybrid shoto than rushdown kinda of like sfv rashid
I find myself using "shoto-adjacent" as a term to describe characters with similar tools to more conventional shotos while also not entirely fitting their criteria (I'm reminded of the "Is Sagat a shoto?" debate, something I'd say "no" to but I definitely understand where it comes from.).
I dont mind hybrid definitions, but i just dont use them for my videos, thats up to the community to do while i try take more hard line stances on things.
I like the take on shotos being an honest playstyle. Though I think the take on asking who is a shoto is equivalent to asking who plays like Ryu isn't true. To me its literally just, who has that specific trinity of specials regardless of if they're a also a brawler, zoner, or whatever.
Thing is, (idr if you mentioned this on channel b4, its been a while) characters can be hybrids of archetypes. So Ken can be considered a shoto-rushdown, Sol a shoto-brawler, etc. I consider Cammy to be a semi-shoto as well because she has a DP, a spinning move that goes through projectiles, and, while not actually being a projectile, she does launch herself at opponents similarly to projectiles. Fun-fact all those moves on Cammy are the same inputs as a shoto would typically have but with the punch and kick buttons switched. The addition of a divekick and a mixup tool in hooligan special makes her also a rushdown character.
As for "demon flipper", all those examples seem like a strike/throw mixup tool. Not sure if thats enough to claim to be its own archetype but I'm open to being persuaded.
I guess your idea on "hybrid shotos" (I like using the term "shoto-adjacent" for describing characters with shoto-like kits but not entirely fitting said criteria)
And yeah, on the topic of "the demon-flipper", I actually don't recall non-SF characters who are more Akuma-esque (shoto-like kit with extra tools to emphasize mix-ups).
@@ArbitraryOutcome Theres also another non-shoto SF character that has a move that I think works similar to demon flip or hooligan special. That being Vega's izuna drop since it goes with his left/right mixup claw attack so you have a grab to catch opponents conditioned to block, and it flips the them.
But maybe theres something special about the flipping command throws mentioned in the video that I'm unaware of, idk.
I dont mind hybrid names at all for archetypes. It can be pretty helpful in fact since lots of characters have tools extraneous to their main archetype. Or system mechanics make them play differently to their home archetype.
When i say who plays like Ryu, and this is hard to fit in a video cleanly so forgive me for not expounding on it, i mean their neutral should be formulated the same, so youre asking who am i punishing a projectile with my anti projectile moves, dping as an anti air, and not really relying on knockdown pressure with. I think archetypes are all about the playstyle their moveslist facilitates rather than the moveslist itself. You can see more on that in my "what makes an archetype" video
While demon flips are rare outside of games without airdashes, there is reason for that! But ill go over why this is all one playstyle in the video and hopefully i wind up with some new believers in this kind of archetype 🙏
Will never not love these videos, thank you so much and please keep em comin'
Another banger. GJ dude
Thank you! Cheers 🍻
Ky Kiske is a better example of a GG shoto
Yeah, this. Sol is arguably more comparable to Ken or Kyo (though the latter is no longer one at all) due to being a more offense-oriented character, with Ky being the dedicated all-rounder with a stronger mid-range game.
@@ArbitraryOutcomesol sounds similar to ken on paper but realistically i find them quite different
Ky is more shoto-like than sol i agree. I just wanted to bat away at the at-large idea of anime-shotos. But ultimately i still think Ky is a midranger at heart. I have a video on my thoughts on that on the channel too.
I think his character specific gimmick in Shock makes him less of a shoto, even if he has a more well-rounded toolkit.
Love your videos in understanding and getting a mental dive at these Archetype in fighting games. One a personal note often I feel Shoto's are more defense or reserved in play style. As like it's said Shoto's tools are meant to react to the opponent acts from your action I.E: them attempting to jump the fireball. With that being said I know Gran in Granblue is the "Main character" or the Ryu of the game but I often Feel Katalina is the second or more Shoto like in that game. Not to say Gran isn't but often time I feel player play him for aggressively given his frames withing the game but outside the number he does have the core idea of playing like Shoto. Fireball, Tatsu, DP but to me I play Katalina more like Ryu often give even though she has more of a Coup Droit from Persona than a Tatsu but like you said Shoto's are often stretch and changed over the time and years of fighting games but even if that game is fundamentally different with how you can approach with fireballs (Being able to Dodge and Roll like KOF and not committing to jumping that often) the core Idea of Kat still just feels etch when it comes to play style of the character.
I put katalina and mitsuru in midranger, which i have a video on if youd like, i think its interesting these characters who skirt the borders of multiple archetypes though.
Alright season 2 hype! Could you explain Chun-li's archetype after the demon-flipers? She has charge inputs but is not a zoner, but some kind of footsie specialist from what I understand.
Yeah its on its way, cant guarantee its next up, but i have lots to say on the matter. She is explained somewhat in my "what makes a top tier" video, where i talk about footsies characters there.
@@DarumaFGC cool I’ll check it out!
I can maybe see what you mean about Ken for SFV, but in SF6 I’d definitely say he’s back to being one. His gameplan isn’t slow by any means, but he definitely has the option of hanging back and playing a well rounded style similar to Ryu, and it’s not like Heavy/Run Shoryu aren’t good anti-projectile options
While that does have some definite truth to it, the sheer power of jinrai kicks is essentially why hes still winning tournaments and showing up in constant top 8s even after drastic nerfs from season one. He gets to safely initiate pressure, easily maintain it, stay safe or even in the lead on parry, his frame data and forward momentum and corner carry mean any touch leads to him overwhelmingly pressuring the opponent in the corner with his strong, safe, advancing options. While he can play neutral better than in sfv, he also ironically needs to play neutral less due to the games universal mechanics
I disagree wirh Ken not being a shoto at all. Hes def a shoto rushdown hybrid like sol badguy and ky is 100% a shoto. Agree to disagree tho, the vid was still a fun watch
Sol is NOT a shoto lol, but yea ken is definitely a shoto imo
I dont mind hybrid names for broader use but i am not willing to use them for my videos. It muddies the waters a lot for educational content. But i think its more valid to just say "ken is a rushdown" than "ken is a shoto" but its just as valid to say "ken is a shoto-rushdown". I think his defining traits are his run stance, jinrai kicks and dragonlash, and you can see that hes basically never just throwing out a fireball to bait a jump into a DP if you watch the recent capcom cup, in fact his fireball is almost exclusively used as his anti-fireball move now. Whether thats EX-ing to make it a punish or to force approach. But interestingly he doesnt have a meterless fireball punish now. Which is generally a rushdown trait.
I go over ky specifically in my Midranger video, and Sol specifically in my Brawler video, if youve any interest in my ideas on them.
Reminder: Dan is the only valid shoto pick.
What about oro
Any plans to cover 3d archetypes? Like Mishimas or just the general differences between 3d and 2d grapplers?(I just feel King has a lot more leeway to be aggressive and have good approaches when compared to ol Gief)
Eventually yeah, but it might be a more meta video on how archetypes differ between them and 2D. While i might love multiple of them, its pretty hard to justify say, a whole video on Sumo wrestlers in 3D fighting games. At least this early on when theres so much else to cover
I think part of what makes something feel "honest" is that it isn't the type of move that someone getting hit by will ever really get overly annoyed by because it's not really a huge blowout nor is it something that can just get randomly added to the mental stack because the Shoto feels like adding it. Ryu's solar plexus punch is good for his play style but it's a supplemental move largely used as a callout move because it rewards a good combo on hit. Or how in Third Strike, Shippu Jinrai Kyaku is an amazing super but the damage isn't particularly overtuned nor is it something that can be completely thrown out in neutral like Chun's super, it's a supplement to combo lines that does little beyond adding consistency to Ken's game plan. That's probably the word to consider, consistency - an honest move won't help a player win a game they otherwise would have lost.
Yeah, though i think that all comes under the all rounder idea. Theres no overwhelming strength in one particular area and almost no mix. Its really difficult to be random and successful as a shoto. Thats where the whole "when daigo does it hes a genius but if i do it im random" meme comes from. The most shocking thing you can do is an exdp out of nowhere but even that covers such little screenspace its too dangerous to incorporate into your gameplan at large.
I just found your channel and your videos are sooooo gooood
Thank you so much! Im doing my best to make stuff thats worth watching
I don't really agree that Sol Badguy can't really be shoto due to throw loops for a few reasons:
1 )Every character in Strive has looping plus frames and throw loops, this is fine because of all the powerful defensive mechanics and throw protection. In fact, only having strike/throw loops means you're consider you honest as you don't have the meterless setplay with the high/low or same side/cross-ups that can circumvent the defensive mechanics
2) Ryu had throw loops in every Street Fighter game, he even has throw loops in early SF5/SF6 before they patched it out later. So if we're comparing characters to Ryu, it's silly to use throw loops as an example of how not to be Ryu
3) Throw loops have nearly zero correlation with a character's archetype. See a grappler, zoner, or rushdown and it's a coin flip whether or not they have throw loops, unless everyone has them. There is no archetype that can't exist without throw loops, even setplay characters
That's all I got to say, other than I don't see why not Sol Badguy can't be a Shoto/Brawler hybrid
He didnt say anything about throw loops tho?
@@z1u512 He did, twice, about Ken and Sol Badguy. He's saying those aren't Shotos but Brawlers cause they can "stick to their opponents"
Throw loops is indeed not what i was getting at with that statement. Theres fighting games where against the wall every single character gets strike/throw mix, its not useful to determining a characters archetype. The attribute im talking about here is neutral skipping or speed of entry. All of Sols moves move him forward by default, so sol winds up even after a blockstring still being in range to continue a blockstring, for a more traditional rushdown like Giovanna, her dash is so fast and strong she also has this attribute. Meanwhile Ryu has to one and done on pressure, if a blockstring fails, hes pushed back to a range where hes no longer at advantage and has to put himself at disadvantage to approach again. I used Chipp as an example in the video to show strong safe, looping pressure.
You can see more on my thoughts on Sol specifically in the Brawler video. Which explains things deeper than i can go into here. A video on rushdowns is a few months away still though.
@@DarumaFGCOkay, neutral skips also have nothing to do with the archetypes either. Even Zoners like Dhalsim have neutral skips
SF6/Guilty Gear are good examples of this. RC/WA and drive-rush can give any character a neutral skip option without changing their archetype. Mind you, Sol and Ky's neutral skips aren't even that good without meter
And if Neutral skips disqualify a shoto, you listed both Gran and Hyde as Shotos. I understand Gran as in the first Granblue is a shoto, but Hyde? I don't play Under night, so I look up a random tournament set between Rei and Taicus, and I already found like 10 neutral skip setups and super whacky setups, lol
But regardless, I think neutral skips don't play a role in archetype the same reason throw loops don't. Putting your opponent in 50/50 situations benefits all gameplans. If the other opponent just sits there and do nothing, there's only two ways to open them up: Chip them or put them in a 50/50 situation. In older games, chip damage was more viable, so the more "honest" characters were viable. But now chipping is also never viable, so neutral skips are way more important, this, why many Shotos today have them
I really like FighterZ SSJ Goku's approach to being a shoto. They kinda play around with his kit by making Flurry Kick, aka his Anti-Air move more of a move that flies big and flies far, and it works better as a dedicated Superdash counter in the air as opposed to being an invincible wakeup option. There's no kind of invincibility on it, so there's no real way to use it for that purpose.
The light version exists, but the light version isn't similar to a Shoryuken in any regard, as it's essentially a fast and safe on block move that allows Goku to reset his pressure. And that's way more important for the beginner character in DBFZ to have.
Thing is with that is it means SSJ Goku doesn't have a DP in any sense, and the decision here I love is how they gave those DP mindgames to the game's other shoto, being SSJ Vegeta.
And I absolutely ADORE the choice they have to characterize their shotos like this, cause you KNOW Vegeta is the type of dude to say "nah, I'd win" and do the thumb pose right before moneymatching... and losing because he only chose to DP on wakeup. Goku's too pure of heart to do DP on wakeup.
EDIT: I think it's worth going more over what makes them different as shotos, cause it does a good job of illustrating how there's actually two different types of Shoto players.
There's the ones who play shotos because they want an honest, well rounded fundamentals character to learn the game with, while there's the guys who pick shotos to run fireball RPS and do DP mindgames.
And Vegeta's interesting to me since his whole thing is that he has really strong fireballs and zoning game, and has better mixups than SSJ Goku. But his limbs are so stubby that he has a terrible midrange/poking game. Because he's short.
But his kit is much more built around fireball RPS and whatnot, since he can cancel his fireballs into other specials. Meaning Vegeta can throw ki-blasts into DP or into his rocket kick, so he can get in.
He has to lead hard into the whole "I'm going to use my Shoto Tools™ to do fireball RPS and funny DP schenanigans" since he's going to be much worse than SSJ Goku at honest footsies and whiff punishing or whatnot.
He's still a shoto, and still leaning into the whole "Ryu Turtling RPS" stuff, he just has to rely on that kind of stuff over Goku who has long enough limbs to do the more honest neutral game at a mid range.
It's also funny that Vegeta's biggest shortcoming is literally that he's short.
I do probably still disagree with the idea theyre shotos but a lot of that is just the base design of fighterz. And its kinda unfairly been changed further away from this idea with the final updates Z change additions where vegetas air to ground ki blast barrage can be cancelled into a safe tag in and force a mixup scenario (same for flurry kicks etc) but i do agree there was an attempt to make SSJ Goku at least resemble ryu. But ultimately he winds up playing way different. Just the way the game is.
Almost every other character i could suggest as an alternative to a shoto is really messed up too, theres always a few moves making the characters crazy and ultimately dishonest too. Teen Gohan would probably be my go to for this though if i had a gun to my head.
A shoto is any character whose moves are designed to teach the player the fundamentals of the game or expand upon them. they have a tool for any situation but those tools are limited in application, or have tools that are designed to teach players specific aspects of basic playstyles. sol is 100% a shoto in guilty gear even though he would not be in street fighter.
Thats just not what a shoto means at all, youre just describing all rounders
@@z1u512 which is basically what people mean when they refer to shoto as an archytype, but even then there is a difference. chun li is an all rounder not a shoto and ky is an all rounder not a shoto.
I did consider this during the research phase for this video but i think ultimately what matters most to an archetype is the playstyle of the character itself rather than main character status or system mechanics.
I touch on it a little saying a ryu player is more likely to stick to Hyde or Gran than Akuma & Sol, i think really the way you formulate pressure, the way you play neutral, and the definition of your winstate is important. And Shotos are in a unique position where their winstate is react correctly in neutral, their wake up pressure is nothing special at all with no mix. Just completely basic strike or throw.
Ill go over this maybe this month, cant guarantee if itll follow the next video but Boss characters are the antithesis of this idea, since they are designed around punishing the system mechanics of their specific game. But that winds up creating a meta playstyle across games because its based on callouts
Amazing video as always!!!
Thank you for the support 🙏 hope the new series intro was cool
🤓🤓🤓 Actually Ryu, Ken, Akuma, etc don't practice Shotokan (yes, it's -kan), but 'Ansatsuken', roughly translating to 'Assassin' Fist'.
And that's interesting when you consider how Akuma or Evil Ryu/Kage handle it VS how Gouken and his students do, the latter obviously preferring a less lethal version, using what they were taught to strengthen themselves, without necessarily annihilating their opponents in the process.
Yes I'm a lore fiend, and proud of it!
The confusion comes from the manual for OG SF2, I believe? where it seems localizers might've thought Ansatsuken was just too vague to define what Ryu/Ken do, so a style of Karate was put as their fighting style in their bio, instead.
Tbf, they likely do have some moves taken from various karate styles, among other things, but Makoto remains the most karate-ass karateka in the series (she does Rindokan btw)
@@ruzma3927the funniest thing is there is nearly nothing ryu and ken does that are even taught in shoto kan
I'll have to take your word for that!
My experience has been with Kyokushinkai and I don't recognise any of it in what they do, either (side-note, but recognizing moves I know in Lidia's moveset in Tekken was incredibly cool~)
True, i would have probably done more due dilligence but i wanted to just build off the at large conception around the characters. But i appreciate theres someone out there waving the nitpick flag at least, to keep me on my toes.
Thoughtful analysis!
Cheers! 🍻
Thanks for another great video!
I just hope you enjoyed and ill keep putting work in!
Honesty is really key to me. I don't like to rob people with knowledge checks. I want people to feel yep he was just better.
Cool story bro DOSUKOI HEEHEEHEEHA DOSUKOI DOSUKOI
I love both. I have a hard time sticking to any playstyle for too long, which i think put me in the unique situation to make this series in the first place. I play a good amount of everybody and cant commit to just one.
@@DarumaFGC Yeah I feel you. I play GGSTRIVE and I run around the entire cast all the time. It's just fun to learn about other characters. But I always end up coming back to Ky when I want to have fun fighting.
Arguably though Ky got so much buff he kinda feels dishonest recently. Being able to fight at any range and easily access the wall break, and vortex people to death while also having good defense. He is nasty xD
@@tonynguyen6639My midranger video largely covers my thoughts on him as a character. I think its interesting that people would like to call him a shoto, but inherently, his mix and pressure are just too different IMO
When I play Sol he’s a rushdown lol
It's finally time!
Hope i met your expectations! 🙏
Nice video, but disagree on Ken not been a shoto, he still is, even to this day, yes he is more aggressive but still his core is too similar to Ryu, we can agree on we might need to add more terms like Pixie-Grapplers to Shotos now days, but say that Ken is just rush down now only feel wrong to me, he definitely is not honest like Ryu that's definitely true.
Weirdly enough i think ken is still pretty honest by definition, he might be overtuned in sf6 but the incoming nerfs definitely can fix that
I think my thoughts on this after capcom cup are actually more concrete, because you could go entire sets in pro play without seeing a simple fireball call out with a dp, and even his empowered moves he gets from his run stance were basically wholly absent. Instead kens defining moves in Capcom Cup were Dragonlash and Jinrai kicks. Which create intense mixup scenarios while also working as gap closers. Like if you look at the purpose of kens hadouken now, its actually purely anti-fireball, rather than used as a fireball itself. Youll see EXs used to punish a sandblast or Sonic boom but its not used even as a wall for ken to approach behind like in past entries. I think hes moved further and further away from the shoto playstyle than i had previously thought and his shoto tools are mostly depreciated now.
Oh and, i do somewhat agree on the idea of hybrid archetypes, but i dont like using them for my videos since these are intended as like, drawing the lines around niches. If you wanted to just call him a shoto-rushdown, im fine with that.
Great series
Cheers! 🍻 much appreciated
What makes a character a "pixie grappler" ?
Its something thatll get its own video when i cover grapplers and their various spin offs, but in shorthand, its a grappler defined by agility rather than big body attributes. They close gaps quickly and command grab loop you, but these tend to be like, 5 grabs per round, rather than the zangief style 2/3 grabs per round.
@@DarumaFGC thanks, that would be a fascinating video
can you guys get new ideas
Im busy, ask later.
Who’s the shoto, alt. Shoto, and is there a super shoto?
Super shoto aka gouken sf4
@@z1u512 I was thinking Akuma, and just now had the thought that Eryu, and Oni are ultra shotos. I always saw Gouken as an OG of the style, so he’s like a….Proto-shoto.
If we're going by that logic i like evil ryu as super shoto. Alt shoto? I dunno, maybe something a bit deranged like spiderman mvc.
@@DarumaFGC alternate shotos to me are like sakura and sean. Actually, you can probably squeeze 5 & 6 (moreso 6) Ken in this category now. Shoto-like but with a deviated playstyle. Idk. Didn’t really think this through.
I love shotos. My sf6 world tour character is pretty much a shoto with other moves added in
I will always argue Kazuya is a shoto. 1, his karate style is highly based on shoto Kon karate. 2, he is a weirdly honest character. 3, Mishimas are essentially the shotos of Tekken. 4, is it me or is Leroy insanely fun in t8?
Hes too technical to be as shoto tho atleast in 7. You have to perfected electrics. I would never call a mishima a shoto.
Kazuya is anything but honest LMAO, Jin and MAYBE heihachi are the most """honest""" characters in tekken
I think the most honest characters in tekken are probably the bears. Their knockdown scenarios are reasonable and they have very simple moves that are designed as a sidestep punish, backdash punish, armor, etc. But i probably wouldnt call anyone in tekken a shoto.
Wait... Ky isnt a shoto?
I go over him in more detail in the Midranger video in this series! I'd recommend checking it out for my thoughts
@DarumaFGC that was a great video! Never really thought of a character being considered "midranger" I always thought of mid range zoner kinda like Guile and thought Ky was some mix of that and shoto
I think the main thing for midrangers is that their normals outpace their specials as tools. Theres an extreme strength to anything with considerable range yet high safety in fighting games and it does a lot for characters like this.
So is Jin kisaragi a shoto?
Fuck no
I go over Jin somewhat in my Midranger video. Along with Ky and other characters of the sort.
SHORYUKEN!!!!!!!!
HADOUUUUUUKEEEEN!!!!
I don’t think shotos are even an archetype, it’s like stance characters
They kinda are but its just the definition of them are defined so poorly
I can see your idea behind that, but i think thats only because people muddy the waters by throwing the name out almost at random to every poster boy. I think theres an underserved niche of characters who actually do play like ryu though that i wanted this video to make some things clearer to them. Rather than let people call some flying around the screen gorilla like terry bogard a shoto any longer.