2009 Honda Civic Si (8th Gen) - POV Driving Impressions
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- Опубликовано: 30 авг 2023
- It's Honda week on TheTopher! Today we're driving a super clean (40k mile!) 8th gen Civic Si. Always fun filming with @pattyboi!
2009 Honda Civic Si Modifications:
Konig Hypergram 17x8 ET45
Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02 225 40 17
Annex Fastroad Pro Coilovers (Use Code PATTYBOI for savings)
annexsuspension.com/?aff=2
Eibach Rear Sway Bar 19MM
KTuned Rear Camber Arms
Hawk DTC60
Hasport Engine Mounts Upper and Lower 70A
Hybrid Racing Transmission Detent Springs
Hybrid Racing Shifter Bushings
Hybrid Racing Shifter Base Bushings
Skunk2 Shift Knob
MPG: 21 city / 29 highway
Horsepower: 197 hp @ 7,800 rpm
Engine: 2.0 L 4-cylinder w/VTEC
Curb weight: 2,895 lbs
Tire size: P215/45R17
Wheel size: 17″ diameter, 7″ width
0-60 mph: 6.6 seconds
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Авто/Мото
2009 Honda Civic Si Modifications:
Konig Hypergram 17x8 ET45
Continental ExtremeContact Sport 02 225 40 17
Annex Fastroad Pro Coilovers (Use Code PATTYBOI for savings)
annexsuspension.com/?aff=2
Eibach Rear Sway Bar 19MM
KTuned Rear Camber Arms
Hawk DTC60
Hasport Engine Mounts Upper and Lower 70A
Hybrid Racing Transmission Detent Springs
Hybrid Racing Shifter Bushings
Hybrid Racing Shifter Base Bushings
Skunk2 Shift Knob
MPG: 21 city / 29 highway
Horsepower: 197 hp @ 7,800 rpm
Engine: 2.0 L 4-cylinder w/VTEC
Curb weight: 2,895 lbs
Tire size: P215/45R17
Wheel size: 17″ diameter, 7″ width
0-60 mph: 6.6 seconds
I have a modded 2008 acura tsx 6 speed manual and I'd love to see you review one of those!
I'm curious how the owner finds the DTC 60 as they're supposed to be a track pad but I noticed no noise in the video. Also yes, a modded TSX is a must review Topher
@@davidzebar6876 these actually had powerstop z23 pads in this specific video! The hawks I run on track and swap them out....they are very loud and dusty....not entirely sure if I would recommend on anything other than a track
stock exhaust? sounds really nice. hoping i can find a reasonably priced FA5 myself
@@veganjoy Yup! Stock exhaust, I had a full race 3" but it had too much drone with not enough actual exhaust noise
I'm 48 years old, and most of my dream cars are from my generation...70's and 80's, but I've always had a thing for the 2000's cars...your generation. When you get to my age, you'll probably be buying cars of your childhood and be bragging to your kids how awesome the 2000-2020 cars were. 👍
100%!
That car is immaculate! Looks fresh off the production line, not a 15 year old car. Always liked the style of these coupes too.
Honda cars rarely look outdated because of their clean and simplistic design (although their previous generation of cars didn't). I'm glad that they went back to this styling approach on their current generation of cars.
Would love to have one of these but it’s impossible to find a clean one
And if you do find a clean one, they want 17k for a car with 140k miles.
Will sell you mine, 88k miles still stock
@@DOOMLORDHOKAGE how much u asking
they’re all untastefully clapped or 20k+ for sub 100k miles
Yes, my friend, it is. Wish you luck.
I've always thought that Civic gauge cluster was iconic
These actually have electric powers steering too! It feels excellent. These cars are great. Header and tune makes a massive difference
The steering is lighter or heavier than the new ones?
It does feel excellent. Had the same gen but in blue, and I miss that car. Comfy as hell too.
@@Nestle245 Steering feels a little light already on an 8th gen but still a great balance of weight and feel for me. The 8th gen has a tighter steering rack than the 9th gen. In just terms of weight though, I have no clue what the 10th or 11th gens are like but they do change the steering feel with it's different drive modes.
It’s really interesting that the electric steering in cars from this era often get mistaken for hydraulic. Same with the RX8. Really makes you wonder how they did it so much better than current EPAS cars.
It had the earlier EPS issues than the one in my 9th gen Accord, mainly the 2.4L I4 models from what I know, and also occurring in both the auto and manual models.
I don’t remember the 8th gen Civic’s EPS issues being as destructive as the one that randomly occurred on my (and others) 9th gen Accord’s. It would fail intermittently and FULLY LOCKED UP the steering wheel, depending on the situation - HIGHLY DANGEROUS. Had I not slowed down to barely ~20 mph mid turn and slammed on my brakes quickly on instinct, I would’ve plowed straight into the car in front of us (my friend was in the passenger front seat).
I’ve definitely heard way worse cases and more and more people documenting more recurring cases lately as of the past 2+ years, just recently. It tends to plague a certain range of years for the 9th gen Accord 4 cyl models, mostly the pre-facelift 13-15 models in my personal experience.
What made it crazy is that it’s not been made a national recall yet. Crazy how I have a 5th gen Chevy Camaro SS, and they have a national recall issued in 2020, for peoples’ literal KNEES (yes, really….) hitting the key in the ignition barrel; which occurred from poor positioning, or lack of adjustability, if you’re over 6’3” or something along those lines. Regardless, Honda needs to really make their TSB bulletin reissue guidelines for more readily available servicing. I took it into my local Honda dealership, and they did jack shit about it and I had to inadvertently pay them a hefty diagnosis fee…..
Most underrated used car you can find for sale right now
I think the first gen Mazda6 v6 manual is actually more underrated and way cheaper and just as good if not better IMO.
you can still buy corvettes for the same price these damn civics are going for lmao
@@veganjoyyou can find a vette for 5k where???
I really like that Pat brought up the fact that it handles similarly to his miata. Something people really don't understand about this era of hondas (gd3 and ge8 honda fit, civic si) is that even though they are front wheel drive and they dont all have limited slip diffs, they are so incredibly light that all you need is a good suspension setup, good tires, high temp brake fluid and these cars are track demons
The front wheels actually have lim slip diffs if I am not mistaken. I am still crushed I had to sell mine 3 years ago.
@@afdgbdfbdfbdfNah, even the 2002-2006 RSX Type S never had a LSD stock
@@yukonstriker1703it has a lsd I just don’t know how good
Old JDM gsr also had lsd aside from type r I don’t think other si had lsd besides 8 gen and up
My 8th gen FA5 was probably my favorite car. Bought new in 09. I've since had cars of all makes and power levels and still miss that Si.
I love these older but yet still modern car reviews. Definitely plan on getting a 8th gen civic in the near future. Preferably a sedan body style and do a FD2 rear end conversion. The aftermarket for these cars are ridiculously endless
i've had my 07 sedan si for almost a year now, i would definitely recommend an aftermarket shifter. even if you don't want to replace suspension, get aftermarket compliance bushings and sway bar bushings and there will be a noticeable difference in driving feel. and don't be afraid to rev it out! took me forever to be comfortable with going over 5,000rpm regularly but the car loves it. if you're in california I'm trying to sell mine for money to go to university, lmk
@@cartercurren5870how much?
@@assassin7250 7500. has bc racing coils, exedy clutch, short shifter, mishimoto cooling, some fixes, just needs cosmetic attention (needs new ceiling panel for example)
@@cartercurren5870damn bro imo I wouldn't sell something like that, I see so many people regretting selling it but don't let me persuade you 🤘
@@TGerhardt i sold it yesterday. i really didn’t want to sell it, i loved my car, but to afford college i had to. when it’s time for me to buy a car again i’ll be getting another 8th gen si for sure
Owned an 08 Si and 14 Si, off the showroom floors. The 08 was my fav right behind my 04 S2K
Why get rid of the S2k?
I had a 8th gen sedan and still miss it. I got tboned at a weird intersection and the car was totalled. Until that point I'd had a GTI and have since had several GTIs and a GLI, but there was something really special about this car. I think it was that you could absolutely wring it out at pretty safe speeds. Every interstate on ramp could be a little burst of excitement. Amazing chassis, too. I wish they could still make cars like this.
You could find used coupes or sedans online.. but it may not feel the same
proud single owner of an 09 fg2 - 185k miles. 🚗 (bought with 25 miles in jan 09)
loved the video and praise for one of the best hondas ever built. friends and fam ask why i don’t just buy a new car. i’ll just send them to this video for the numerous reasons why this car is so loved and why i love it so much.
love your vids man! 🤙🏿
Hell yeah dude I'm glad you held onto yours for so long! Continue to take care of it and enjoy it to its fullest potential. Hondas of this era are sadly never returning. I hope you continue to enjoy yours for many more years to come!
@@alanbarrese456 i’ll doing my best to get this car to 250-300k!!! next project to tackle is trying to fix that dang paint.
i wish there was a program to hand back specific models for a factory refresh.
There was a factory recall on the clear - coat issue
It's unfortunate that it's over now for us newer owners
Had ‘09 Sedan Si and by far my favorite. That was the last generation of Hondas I grew up with. Go cart handling and that intoxicating high revving engine. Went on to have a ‘13 Si and ‘18 Si and just not the same. Thanks for sharing this!
such a great drivers car for the money. seriously. limited slip, 8k+ RPM, great driver inputs, center tach. ahhhhhhhh. nice.
Thank you so much for the fun drive! Nothing like a naturally aspirated Honda 4-banger. Love the engine noise. The new turbo-charged Honda engines are nice, but nowhere near as charismatic as the NA pots. Which is why I kept my 2013 Accord Sport 6MT, and traded in my 2020 Civic Si for something else.
I love these older models: not loaded with tech, no big screens just good old push buttons and knobs.
My dad added a screen, since the orange radio 'screen' almost fell in. The car has great audio now though!
Ahhhh I was anxiously awaiting this video. Idk what it is about Civics but they’re so freakin fun to drive. This one is CLEAN.
I’ve had two 8th gen Si civics over the years, both sedan and coupe, and they’re really the last of “old Honda”. The k20z3 sounds amazing, even with a cheap intake. Absolutely no torque, which meant more vtec. One of the funnest cars to take around a highway cloverleaf. I owned both at a different time in my life, which meant I could never keep one long term. Now that I’m at a point in my life where I can, they’re impossible to find clean and unmodified. I have a new civic sport touring hatch 6mt and while it’s a much nicer civic, it has nothing on the k20 at 8200 rpm.
The king of Honda Civics
I couldn't afford this car back in the day and was always curious to see how it would stack up to cars of the future.
looks like it definitely handles it just fine
This car was a huge success in my home country, Brazil, some people put up to 1000 hp in it, it's an incredible car,but here,this Civic is sedan.
Really enjoying this channel. This bring back so much memories as a 2010 civic si was m'y first new car when I was 21. Had full bolt ons with coil overs.....that engine sound! 13 years later im still a kid with a brz 2023 as m'y second car.
The crossover noise will get a lot louder with an intake.
Flashpro will unleash a lot of mid range power on a stock one but the crossover kick will go away. It will be a smooth transition.
Hopefully tuning would remove that annoying rev hang as well...
you can change the vtec crossover manually right? though technically no kick is ideal for performance iirc
That's my fear with flashing my car. I love the factory crossover but I want revhang to be gone forever
@@amhrightnow idk if it can be done with the common tools but i've definitely seen tuners set specific crossover points for that reason
@@carolinacars739it does, Hondata has a simple check box to get rid of rev hang. night and day difference
Been excited for this one! I love the look of the facelifted 8th gens. I've got an '08 civic EXL sedan and although it doesn't have the facelift (or the performance of the Si) I love the overall styling and interior of the car, I'd say it has held up over time. Great example of the Si coupe here in this video, this looks like an awesome daily!
Funny, I was JUST searching an 8th gen civic si Topher POV the other day, and found one from a few years back. And now we get this! Awesome stuff.
Had on 09 Si coupe in blazing orange pearl. I loved it, tracked it, and took all over Colorado mountain roads. My favorites were the 8,200rpm redline, the shifter, the sound, the reliability and usable space. Things I wish it had, rwd, hydraulic steering, lighter weight. Sold it and bought an NB Miata, I regret nothing and absolutely love the NB.
On track using the Scandinavian Flick is a must with the Si.
What’s the flick?
@@d.nnnyyy It’s a technique used for fwd or any under steer heavy car in corners. It’s worth typing into RUclips and watching a pro teach you as I am an amateur.
Here is the definition from Google. “The Scandinavian flick, Finnish flick, pendulum turn, or Scandi flick is a technique used predominantly in ice racing and rallying. The technique induces oversteer using weight transfer to carry a vehicle through a turn while simultaneously reducing speed.”
These are great cars. I picked up mine about a year ago, completely stock and being the 2nd owner. I did the EM1 clutch master and slave cylinders, shifter base bushings, and a skunk2 shift knob. No more 2nd gear grind and it’s so much fun to bang through the gears. Even on all season tires it just grips and has fun.
This one got me into Civics. It had understeer for days, but a very fun car. Had a downpipe with an intake. Great car. Have an 18 now that handles so much better. Just great cars.
I regret selling my Taffeta White 09 Civic S Coupe i. It was bone stock with original paint and no exterior damage and interior was clean too. It had over 200k mikes with no problems. 😢
as you should
I have a 2010 Honda Civic Si (Sedan) I really enjoy driving it, the best car I've ever had. Really enjoyed this video!
I remember wanting one of these so bad back in around 2011-2012, always will love these cars
Had an 07 FG2 Figi Blue. Been in love with the brand ever since. Excellent video the nostalgia is heavy with this one.
Was the best color for sure ...
That was a fun ride guys!!!! That was a smooth but fast ride. 😊
The 9th gen si is what even got me into Honda's. I know you and everyone else bag on it because it doesn't make a Honda rev noise but its great without having to be at 80% all the time forever. Presently in a 11g Si and man is it great as An Car! Anyway, great video - commenting for the algorithms.
This is an awesome car, thank you for making this video! What a great year civic!
8th generations si are one of the best generations of the honda si besides the 2000 honda si. Classic car's one day very soon.
I have a 2009 Si coupe and I just love how it drives. You can have fun and don’t have to speed
I bought one of these with 200k and beat to hell. When the motor gave out I swapped a JDM k24a, from JDM west coast, into it because I had fallen too in love with the car to let it die. Even with the extra torque I don’t enjoy it as much I did before. I was so desperate to keep it alive, but in the end I turned it into something else completely. Cherish and enjoy your mostly stock fg2, and remember you have a memento of the Honda we’ll never get back; Honda when it was truly alive.
this story made me cry
Honda week continues!
GOT BOTH... LOVE THOSE CARS! VTEC TURBO AND i-VTEC!
In addition to all the other great things on this car. This generation had the best cup holders of any car I’ve ever owned. Huge, deep, and drinks never budged, with those holders on each corner.
I've always said these are the most affordable cars that give you a true motorsport feel. There is simply no other car for the price that you can daily drive and hit over 8000rpm with a real manual transmission, no invasive stability controls, quick ratio steering, limited slip diff, shift light, all the right stuff. Get a 2006 and it doesn't even have traction control or TPMS. Just grip and rip. Such a fun car.
I had a 2008 SI for 65000km and 2006 for 75000km and can't explain how much I miss them. 2006-2011 civic SI was so good of a car.
I remember when they launch them how much controversy they get and now 17 years later it really aged well (except their paint and how much they get beated)
You are really lucky to get one with low miles like that patty
my mom bought one of these brand new in 2009 and I remember being super pissed she sold it a couple years later without giving me right of refusal.
Grest video, always refreshing to see older honda's getting some modern recognition. Im the owner of a 2007 Acura CSX Type S (basically a sedan SI with heated leather, nav, auto climate control with jdm looking front and rear fascia). Im always refreshed when i go for a spirited drive, it reminds me of integra's of yesterday.
This is my daily driver. Intake, exhaust and most importantly a tune totally changes the level of enjoyment you get from this car.
I had an ‘08 Si (unmodified) and was by far one of the most fun cars I’ve owned.
I’ve had mine since new. Still my daily.
Watching this after driving my 2010 Si back home from work!
Best car I’ve ever owned
I have the same car it just needs a little love and this video gives me all the motivation to start working on my si
An intake made a huge difference for driver engagement on mine. Obviously doesn’t add much power but the sound is worth it IMO
I used to have a 2009 Acura TSX with the K24Z3 and the first mod I did was an intake. Was my favorite mod I did on that car, the sound of the VTEC crossover was so much fun.
People hate but muffler and exhaust to add sound if you have a cool car that's only loud when your going 90mp
i was literally just watching your review of this gen from 4 years ago and thinking i hope he does another one and 35 minutes later here it is lol
I own 2010 Civic Si and love the thing very fun for the price
I love that this is just a Honda channel now 😂❤
I love the these videos 🎉🎉🎉
I just picked up a IS300 Sportcross
Seesh this guy is having too much fun with the Si
What's up guys, nice review, both Hondas are awesome!! I will post this to my page!!😊
i literally just bought a 2010 honda civic this morning and i love it already
I literally just bought an 06 si coupe haha great cars.
8th gen is the best gen. I have just a normal 2008 EX Sedan as a daily, and they're awesome cars. Back in 2008, my parents bought a brand new EX-L coupe in red, and I tried like hell to get them to buy an Si. I still want an 8th gen Si in the worst way.
I have one. Very fun to drive at the track.
If your motor ever gives out. I recommend a K24 swap with a type s oil pump and 50 degree vtc. It'll be a game changer. I don't regret mines at all.
Throwback! I miss my supercharged fg2. What a fun car
I actually bought the 8th gen in this video from Patty Boi earlier this year. He's a really nice guy! Glad I could save it from the Michigan road salt. :D
Awesome! You got a fantastic car
@@TheTopher It really is fantastic! I had the same FG2 from 2012-2021, but had to sell it to pay off some student loans. I missed it so much that I started searching for the same model/color as my old one once I was ready. I even searched for my old one to find that it was totaled only a few months after I sold it. It took a long time to find this one but it was well worth the wait and effort! Your Si videos helped hold me over until I could find this. Thank you and congrats on the new baby!
Great video, I follow Patty on RUclips. Clean car, my 2008 Si actually has less miles at 20k, and has an intake, tune, and exhaust. I’m convinced Patty and I have the two cleanest Si’s in the Midwest:
Thanks for watching, that is pretty insane you've got a 20k mile 8th gen. That's probably one of the lowest mileage that I've heard of in a long time!
You have to go down 3 years in order to make Loudward happy
I had a 2010 Si Sedan. Damn, seeing this video makes me remember how much fun it was. Not all that fast, but ssssoooooo much fun.
Lightweight fwd car that made all the right sounds and a kid working in high school could afford it. It was my first car..loved it
Just asked you guys about when this video is coming. Patty brother, Hondata to get rid of the rev hang is a must. Hold on let me switch accounts.
Me again. TRSUT ME get the hondata flashpro it makes such a BIG difference. It's insane, improves drivability and fun big time. The stock tune they have lowers VTEC a bit and gets rid of the rev hang.
@@no5thgear311 He had it and removed it for some unknown reason. It definitely improved it a ton.
@@williamrori1274 Hmmm...I wonder why. If he's getting an intake and an exhuast soon like he said in the vid he's going to need to tune it anyway. Curious, I hope he responds, I'm invested now lol
@@no5thgear311 Yeah definitely good question. Maybe he can chime in
@@no5thgear311Really thought he would have chimed in haha. I guess we'll never know :(
Those VTEC engines were so cool 😎
One of the greatest engines ever made!
Thanks for this one! I've seen it on PattyBoi's channel as well. I have a stock '11 Si sedan with 62K. Great cars!
Thanks for watching :)
Woow another 8th Gen Si!!
The thought of selling my FA5 disappeared after watching this. Thanks for reminding us how much of a gem these cars are.
My daily driver is a 2008 Civic SI! Have had it since 2009. Best commuting car ever.
I love my 8th gen si fg2 I’ve had it for 2 years and it’s such a bargain for around 10k if you can find a clean one with no paint fade with less than 150,000 miles. The transmission can be a little notchy but changing transmission fluid and bushings make it feel brand new.
I miss my 8th gen FA5 sedan. One day down the road I'll get another one as a project car hopefully to AWD swap, sequential swap and add lots of boost. Love that high revving k20 sound. Compared to the type R it's shifter feels like it's down on the floor though which feels weird but nothing you can't fix with an adjustable shifter
looks beautiful
My first car, 07 Si, injen CAI, Greddy Evo2 and Hondata reflash - loved it
I've driven a coupe of this generation and a 2016 sedan and they were both awesome!
I got a bone stock 2011 sedan I got it September 2021 it’s a blast to drive very reliable I haven’t had a single problem in the 2 years I’ve had it I’m not at 203k and she runs great I wish mine had less than 40k miles I hate that my paint is fading by my back doors other than that I love it
The video we have all been waiting for! You should do the 2000 Nissan Sentra R. I always saw those around town as a kid. You should do the Dodge Neon SRT too! Very curious about those two.
I had a 2006 Si as my first new car. I loved it, and still regard it very highly after everything I’ve driven since then (work in auto industry so driven a lot!). Then had a 9th gen Si which was a let down overall but still actually a good car overall. Continued on with FK8 and now FL5. The lineage is strong with these cars. All the major bits are so sorted. Great video thanks
Why was the 9th a letdown compared to the 8? Seems like overall a better car, although less raw feeling I'd guess
@@trashbandit2449 launch was terrible, immediate facelift within like a year or two but it still wasnt as good. same horsepower but less exciting (7k rpm k24 vs 8k rpm k20), less feel, etc. but of course it's a better commuter as a result and that was the goal iirc
@@trashbandit2449It was a great car don't get me wrong. I just didn't love it as much. Interior was not great in the 2012 Si (hard plastics everywhere), steering was slower geared and more generic. Ride was a bit flinty. Seats were not as good as 8th. Missed the 8300 rev limiter. But as with my other Hondas, nothing of note went wrong with it, and it still was a fun car overall.
@@veganjoy that's fair. Seems more daily driver oriented but less pure
@@EvanMcC240 think the 14-15 seats/ interior is better? I've been wanting to drive one, to compare to my v6 6mt accord
I have an 09 si in orange but sadly the paint and interior was in bad shape when I got it. The seats are some of the best feeling seats I've ever sat in and the engine and transmission feel perfect for each other.
I should have never sold my Mugen Si, this Gen is so good.
I bought a 2008 sedan because of your previous video back in 2018. I was young and stupid, money shifted it and blew the motor. I only spent $5k on that car and I sold it for $3k with no motor. That all happened over 2 years ago and I'm now back in the market for another 8th gen, I might try a coupe but I'm scared of the headroom as I'm 6 foot tall.
I bought another sedan! I love it
As time goes by it seems every previous generation of Civic Si becomes more and more coveted as they all continue to slip further into "impossible to find a clean one" land.
This is the civic to have if you can find one that hasn’t been wrecked due to over modding and crap
Love this video because I have a 07 fg2 coupe and a 23 fl5 in boost blue. There both so fun to drive. The si isn't fast but can't beat that 9k redline.
Went from the lightly modded fbo 8th gen civic si to an e92 m3. M3 is definitely a huge step up in nearly every department but there are times I miss the civic. Shorter gearing, shifter feel, lightness is definitely better in the civic.
I used to have a 9th Gen Civic Si, which I liked a lot. Looking for a new car now, and have been considering Mustangs, but this video is making me reconsider...
I have a 2011 fa5 got it back in September 2021 it’s the dyno blue pearl color I get so many compliments on it the only thing I’ve done is buy smoked headlights and yellow fogs everything else is bone stock it’s been very very reliable I’ve only done routine maintenance on it great on gas very attractive and can get up and go once you get in vtec and that sound is incredible I have 207k miles and she runs like a champ the best si hands down
I do love that gen si, patty got himself a clean one!!!
Side note, Topher: if you ever find yourself in Colorado I’d love to have you review my G8! You need an Australian unicorn on the channel!
Love to see the 9th gen Civic Si next.😁
These cars handle extremely well with just coilovers and an upgraded rear sway bar. The standard limited slip is the icing on the cake
So glad you could drive a mint lightly modded one! i modded my fg2 a little more than this one (bolt ons, seat, final drive etc...) but even after 200k+ miles, the car drives amazing and very practical.These are the perfect cheap, fun daily drivers imo
what final drive did you run? would pair nicely with a slightly increased redline, think 8600 is the go-to for stock valvetrain
@@veganjoy fd2 5.1, really woke the car up and not too bad on highway
@@Pete0126 yeah the miser in me wants an even longer 6th gear lmao. but yeah figures, is the fd2 gearing hard/expensive to come by? iirc those are jdm only?
Someone get this man into a Manual Honda CRZ lol
I love my automatic, and find it very fun.
Teenage dream car
Great little car
I have a mint 09 fa5 and it’s just the best car. Runs amazing and the position of the engine in this car just feels like the engine is right under you and paired with the lsd I just rip it around every day. Burns zero oil and I drop it to 8,000 rpm’s every day. A ton of fun on narrow curvy roads and the city