@KG-tt3nl Why? Android is, practically speaking, just as locked down and shitty as Windows. The main difference is whether you want to get fucked by Google or Microsoft. Both of them are corporate spyware.
Everything Balmer said was spot on. The problem was Apple didnt market iPhone to enterprise but consumers. Balmer couldn't see the snartphone market beyond the business market and a consumer device came to dominate the enterprise market.
Lack of support of first party apps too... Nokia has developed amazing apps for their lumias because ms didn't. Nokia made them general available later.. but it was too late already.
@benwagner7422 to be fair. Microsoft did attempt to compensate with some apps and they all got shut down. For example, Google would always shut down their apps etc .
#3 is the primary reason. The only reason any mobile OS failed was because of apps. #2 is a good reason and they learned early that they shouldn't have went that route...lol
I remember once when I was visiting a family gathering. I proudly showed off my Lumia phone and demonstrated the Deutsche Bahn app, which allowed me to see when a train was leaving. A relative asked, “Can you buy tickets too?” I said no. “Well, I can,” was his reply, which left me shocked.
And it is still not Finnished. HMD (human mobile devices ) a young Finnish company who used the Nokia name under license for their products doesn't renew the license the end of this year. And they will use their own HMD brandname from now on. While a Finnish phone brand (Nokia) is Finnished a Finnish phone is not Finnished 😉
always make this typo, and because most auto correct assume i'm talking about the country, they just capitalize the F and make the spell checkers miss the typo.
Eh can't really have a perfect guy. If you hire someone who would have jumped on the big screen trend the same guy would jump on nft and crypto/blockchain etc.
The stupid thing is, Bill Gates actually describes a modern smartphone in his book, the road ahead, published in the 1990s. But he didn't call it a smartphone, he called it a wallet PC.
That's the thing that's always been the problem at Microsoft, they have great ideas their execution is so poor. Balmer is right, they dropped the ball integrating the hardware and software but they also lacked the integration that made Apple so successful in the mobile space.
@gywghhb Yes, in fact Gates was talking about the "wallet PC" as early as 1993, a full 14 years before Jobs introduced the iPhone. The wallet PC was intended as a pocket device that would perform many different functions. The intention was that making phone calls would one be function of the device, but not the most important one. So the only difference between that and a smartphone is the emphasis on the phone functionality rather than the wallet functionality.
Yip he's no geek. Just a corporate guy. I mean why buy out a failed tech company like Nokia other than to appease shareholders because it's discounted?
I mean microsoft is a trillion dollar company currently so I think it turned out pretty well for them, you could say the same thing about Tim Cook if we are being honest
Don’t quote me on this, but I think Nadella said that the strategies around pivoting the business to Saas & Cloud were started under Balmers watch then he took over and executed. I’m not one to defends Ballmer as he strikes me as a bit of a Buffoon, but it seems his weakness was having a keen sense for enterprise tech but not being in touch at all with consumer tech.
Lack of apps is what killed the platform. I had a Windows phone and it became increasingly frustrating to use, because none of the popular apps were available on it. Windows phone had a much nicer UI than any android skin available back then, but it lacked apps, and that's what ultimately killed it.
It was so annoying 😂 not a single app you were used to at the time was available for download. Only shitty web knock offs. I had a windows phone for a few months back in 2012 when iPhones were already growing for 4 years with apps so it was like taking a step back owning a windows phone. It was suoer frustrating 😂
@TheSjuris I'd have to say, after using an iphone for a while, android is so much better. A lot of iphone people haven't used an Android phone since the 2010s, when they had weird UIs and quirky features. It's a completely different story today, and android is exceptional at everything, much more than iOS (speaking from experience, and as a software engineer).
I remember owning the Nokia Lumia when it came out. It had a gorgeous UI and amazing user experience, but the app support just wasn't there. Eventually switched to an iPhone 6s.
Yep, the UI was vasty superior. They learnt from the mistakes of iOS and Android. Were just far too late and far to slow. Google were releasing major updates every few months, Microsoft once a year.
Ngl by later stage of windows mobile ,it wasn't their fault .Google just wasn't ready to collaborate are it wouldn't mean loosing business . But on the other hand microsoft didn't really care enough to optimise their existing pc apps and make deals with software Devs even if it meant a drop in profits . Even in 2024 Microsoft still doesn't have a proper app store or proper touchscreen ui which is equivalent to ipados !
What’s crazy to me is them seeing and acknowledging the app shortage for years, and still not doing anything about it. Just that alone might have kept them in the game long enough to recover. - Sent from Android
They did try, but only after it was too late to make any meaningful difference. There were a couple of insider tech preview builds with android app support. It was slow and unstable, and then they just dropped it in the later builds.
It's not really. They wanted a stable phone, and they did get that, back then Android phones had so many issues, including the high end ones. Windows Phone ran super smooth and didn't really crash. If it detected issues, it would do this quick reboot taking a few seconds and it would refresh the system. They want to keep this going, and tried to get Devs to develop apps for it. Eventually they knew they had to switch to allow apps written in different coding languages, the issue was that it made the phone way less stable. Nothing major, but it was definitely noticeable.
Apple has a record of showing other companies how focusing on the smaller things is what matters, for example focusing on efficiency, whats a powerful processor if it heats up and destroys battery? Its like a car- powered what’s the point of a massive powerful engine if there is no grip on the tires?
Him saying "it will do email", "it will do music" makes me cringe every time lol For him it's either it does it or it doesn't, like user experience and convenience didn't even exist.
That was and still is the attitude of microsoft. It served them well in the 90s and early 2000s, it is a thing to get stuff done. meanwhile Apple has always been about user interaction and how it makes you feel when doing things. Nokia n95 which was the best phone when iphone came out smokes iphone, but iphone made you feel like you are in the future, same thing with their colorful macs and ipods etc...
He also seeming he failed to understand that his devices were going to be used by people who may be business people who were also mom's, dad's, photographers, dancers, just people.
Having worked at Microsoft during this time as a designer I can confidently say it was two things. 1) late to market and not innovating enough 2) having a CEO such as Ballmer at the helm.
Windows Phone Failed, because they built a completely new os instead of just updating windows mobile 6.5 with a new UI. windows mobile actually had the best homebrew and dev community back then. XDA was originally all windows mobile mods tweaks before android was released.
Also worked with Microsoft at the time. There were a LOT more issues than Ballmer. It's easy to say it was Ballmer than say the others at fault. There's a lot of blame to go around outside of Ballmer. Carrier relationships, business partnerships, OEM relationships and then developers. I don't think Windows was late per se I think it's because of their standing in those communities at the time that resulted in it's failure. And don't get me started on the advertising budget blown on stars and athletes to promote windows phone just to see them with an iPhone a day later. There's a lot of fault to go around
I still remember when I got my first job. I bought a Windows phone. Pokemon Go became popular, and everyone played it besides me, I was literally watching my friends play Pokemon Go while going on a walk and I couldn't play it. Never regretted buying a phone more. It barely had any popular apps.
Brutal. Pokemon Go was the nail in the coffin for me that made me switch to android. I had suffered for years by not having snapchat, candy crush, instagram, RUclips, any many other apps, and when Pokemon Go came out, I was done and bought an Android.
I went through the same thing man. It sounds stupid, but I really missed out on that magical summer. There were some crappy clients to kind of play the game, but it wasn't nearly the same. Back to android when I was done with that phone.
@RasVojaJahYeah they are the trash can of technology. Everything they buy, they run it into the ground and then it’s gone. Windows is failing that will fail eventually. The only thing they have been anywhere near successful in is cloud and that’s mostly because of Linux. Why they’re trying to infiltrate open source Linux.
As a Palm user all the way up to 2014 (up to the HP Pre 3), I absolutely still miss physical keyboards. I miss being able to type texts with touch instead of having to look. THAT SAID, when I switched to the Samsung Note 4, the larger screen was definitely a fair trade off. Even to this day, while I still miss physical keyboards, what I get in its place is still a square deal... it helps ease the pain. In a way tho, Steve Balmer was right... at first. The original iPhone WASN'T really geared for business. It was a device "for everyone else", which has always been Apple's thing. The iPhone only took off for business definitely by the time the iPhone 4 came out, which was when they started adding those features that business users needed, like installable apps and copy-and-paste functionality. So Balmer definitely would've been wrong if iPhone 4 had been released as the first iPhone.
This is true, but ironically a decent amount of keyboard cases that add a portrait style keyboard under the screen exist now for iPhones. Since iPhones are very standardized, it's easier to do this for them than a 100 different kinds of Android phones, all with different form factors, even from the same manufacturer.
What’s really interesting to look back and compare is the reaction of Google and Microsoft when the iPhone was announced. Google went on “Oh shit” mode “we gotta start all over” and Balmer… Well, we saw his reaction in the video. Now, years later, we compare the current state Android and Windows Mobile… But to be honest, at the time I thought that Windows Phone was way better than Android, it was just too late to matter.
@brittneyking4284the CEO of google, he was on the Apple board when the iPhone was introduced, I’m sure he ran back to his office and had an emergency meeting
Here is the thing, the funny thing was that Balmer wasn't 100% wrong at the time. The issue was that he wasn't prepared for being wrong... See, iPhone wasn't really ready to actually take over yet until the iPhone 4. The gamble was, could iPhone be a good enough phone at $500 in a short enough period of time??? For Apple, this was also a gamble to see if they could pull it off in a short enough period of time. Balmer just missed the point that if he was wrong, then it would be the end.... he had no contingency plan....
I always had a soft spot for the Windows Phone. They felt so different and I don’t think that feeling can exist in the modern day due to how mature phones have become
They have not become "mature," they have become stale and homogenised. Google keeps trying to make Android more like iOS for some reason, and Android OEM's keep trying to copy bad iPhone decisions such as removing 3.5mm port, removing expandable storage, using notches, etc.
@sigiligusStock Android is noticeably different to iOS although stale. On the other hand iOS 18 looks more Androidified than ever and One UI 7 more iosified than ever which isn't always a bad thing.
I always kinda liked the "metro UI" on the Windows phone. The huge pictures and bright colors were great. They were just late as hell to the party because most people had either chosen a side already (iPhone or Android)
He's the embodiment of a "we're too big to fail" mindset. The downfall of Microsoft occurred on his watch. Longhorn would've have been the final blow to the Desktop OS, but instead we got Vista...
He can't be that out of touch; his personal wealth amounts to $147 billion, ranking him as the seventh-richest individual globally. It seems like he's quite grounded, in my opinion.
@CuriousSparks224Downfall? Microsoft is the largest company in the world, by market cap. I'd say they're doing just fine. They just missed the boat on mobile
@festusssss No the mid 00's were a disaster for Microsoft... they got levelled up by both Apple and Google... they had the potential to be ahead of both, but Steve "Developers" Ballmer had NO VISION.
@Barnesy-HQ You assume a link between personal wealth and being grounded. There is none. And you also do not even attempt to show one. People get rich by statistics, not by any form of competency.
Between maintenance and licensing libraries, it was probably a headache that would have ended up breaking the OS when Google decided to change their API when moving to later Android versions. It's the reason a lot of old Android apps don't work properly on new phones, or won't even install.
@errorxf00feven Android itself doesn't support very old apps. Those it supports even now could be supported by Windows in the same way. Just keep some old libraries for a certain time. Like MS keeps old .net libraries only for a time. That's all it costs to support old apps.
I don't know... It's not that he was wrong - the idea was ludicrous, the phone was expensive AF and most business people in high places are one of the more stagnant and stubborn people on the planet who rejected Pocket PCs and more touch capabilities they offered before Steve came and found the words and the right pair of jeans to give the same stupid innovation everyone else was pushing years before and actually sell it. And what was he supposed to say? "All my golf buddies that are idiots... some of them still use tape to store data because they think IRS knows best".
As a former Nokia Lumia user, I find this story heartbreaking. The OS had real potential and the way a Windows phone worked was not bad, but the lack of app support, amongst other things, was a big downer. However, I was a loyal Windows phone user and only replaced mine in 2020. I still miss the Metro interface and the keyboard though.
Same here my friend, windows phone was and will always be truly special. A true diamond in the rough. Truly, a magnificent work of art down to the beautiful UI
I had a Nokia Lumia 920 when I was a teenager and I remember being so jealous that all my classmates could use Facebook, Instagram and RUclips in school while I was stuck looking at the same photos in my photo gallery because the photo gallery was literally the only thing entertaining on that phone. After that I switched to Samsung.
This reminds me of a joke from the big bang theory. In the flashback episode where leornard tells the story how he met sheldon in 2003, when raj shown sheldon an ipod sheldon said " I assure you, you'll be sorry you wasted your money on an iPod, when Microsoft comes out with theirs."
@Soguwe like star lord getting a zune from yondu after his walkman was destroyed, i found hilarious how even marvel and microsoft did a contest to give away a new unopened zoom for guardians vol 3
I never owned a windows phone but I did own a surface tab. I used to be frustrated by the fact there were barely any apps especially youtube. I could imagine it was the same with their phones.
One note, Android was originally under development before the iPhone but for a BlackBerry style device, a prototype was even shown, however they quickly shifted gears once the iPhone was announced.
@bettrswan Yeah - trouble was their CEO was an idiot and didn't move to compete. You have to adapt or you die - BB didn't adapt. Eventually they switched over to Android but it was too late.
Initially Android was designed to a a UI for Cameras ! Sad to see that never happened . An Android 1.0 based ui mirrorless camera could shake the entire market !
One day in 1996, my stepdad came home with the first Palmpilot. He told the whole family that in the next decade or two, everyone will have a device like this that does everything a phone, pc, camera, and discman can do. He stressed how it would just be a screen, no keyboard or stylus, and that it would basically replace every gadget we own. He even said it will do video calls. He talked about Moors law and LCD tech making it inevitable.
@tech.audio.journey stylus in the early 2000s was not the same as it is today. back then, stylus was the only touch input you could use. you couldn't use your fingers to operate the device. that's why apple said "yuck" to stylus when they introduced the iPhone, because they had similar devices that could only be operated by stylus, namely the apple newton. today, the stylus is just an accessory that you can use alongside your own fingers.
It broke my sister's heart when the Windows Phone shut down. I remember going to the Sprint store to pick out a new phone. She got a Samsung phone in the end.
I loved the windows phone the user interface was just perfect, I wasn’t so worried about the lack of apps as it did all I wanted. It was a sad day when I had to choose between an android phone or iPhone, but I still thought both were inferior to my windows phone. I went with android in the end as it was more adaptable and open than the iPhone’s closed ecosystem. I still really don’t like android to this day but I would never go over to iPhone mainly because of the closed ecosystem and the fact I feel they are well over priced.
I really enjoy these longer-form explained videos. It’s not just info-dumping but also storytelling. Plus, I could listen to Greg discussing tech all day long.
Lmao! That's so true. I feel like you could make phone calls for free, but you could sign up for "premium" phone calls for $5.99 a month so you could get HD audio and save contacts. Lol
That’s probably true partly. But today it seems companies have gotten very smart. They have figured out a way to get residual income using subscription services. Microsoft Office is a good example. Even car companies are doing this if you want to use their app to monitor your vehicle. And so forth.
i don’t blame them since their Palm Treos was pretty successful - they felt like iphone was a step back and at that price sheeesh, but boy was they wrong.
@crispyy123 that person is referring to Steve Ballmer, and they hoped you would interpret their comment the way you did, because they thought it would be funny.
I remember very well when the 1st iPhone came out. I was working for a mobile phone carrier and they had some kind of deal with Blackberry. I remember that a Blackberry representative came to our office and for almost one hour, he told us about how the iPhone sucked and how the Blackberry was so much better for both business people as well as regular people.
Woooooooow windows phone was my introduction into the world of smartphones. I remember all the apps it did and didn’t support. Had me looking like an idiot in school for having a weird Facebook and Instagram
The only reason they failed was because they couldn't pursue developers for their app store, they had immense potential. I used a windows 8 phone. top notch optimisation, durable build, zero lag software and a pretty powerful camera. But sadly I owned a device more powerful than an Iphone and an android that didn't have enough apps that would put all those good hardware to use. My friends used to mock me for not being able to use Instagram. Switched to android in 2014 and never looked back
That's true, I had a Lumia 535 and I loved it so much until I couldn't use any apps I liked. It was like having a super console with zero game in it. Finally switched to android. I feel sorry for Nokia for not joining android in good time.
For all of Microsoft’s huge cash pile, why they didn’t outright pay developers to create Win Phone versions of their apps still makes me shake my head to this day.
Beating Windows phones was going to be easy. What floored me is how quickly Blackberry became obsolete. In 2006 there wasn't anything hotter and more addictive than a Blackberry. Their sales reps I had to deal with for clients were some of the most arrogant people I ever met. They were printing money. 5 years later... it was basically a rotary phone. I still think a Blackberry physical keyboard was better than any touch keyboard I've had. Both Droid and Apple.
No app store killed BlackBerry. iPhone hardware at the time is an engineering masterpiece. What BlackBerry should have done was embrace Android. BlackBerry should have offered 3 models, no keyboard, 3 key (back, home, active apps), full keyboard. My family are all iPhone users, and they simply don't care what others think. Business people DO care because of cost.
The engineering firm I worked for at the time got us the Blackberrys with the Nextel Direct Connect and I loved that setup. Still have it sitting in a drawer somewhere.
Apps. Blackberry was whack with that. Also, capacitive touch was good enough for texting. Typing long emails were stupid. Blackberry never got the memo. Lol
@dgmessenger If you use word prediction which correctly predicts almost all words for me, nothing beats that typing speed. It's comparable to typing on a pc keyboard which is great for work. There's a good reason why a small physical keyboard isn't a thing anymore.
21:52 Microsoft recovered NOTHING. NOKIA recovered that. And THAT was the big problem. Windows Phone was NEVER what sold the phones. The NOKIA brand was selling the Lumias. Nokia's tradition of quality and best cameras on the market was what sold NOKIA Lumia phones. It was NOKIA that carried on its back the entire platform. It was NOKIA who had to FORCE Microsoft to constantly release updates to Windows Phone 8, to enable Nokia to innovate and bring to market things that nowadays many people think Apple or Samsung invented (like Always On displays, pixel-binning in photos, live photos, directional audio recording, oversampling of images, etc). So when Microsoft purchased Nokia's Devices and Services business, they basically killed Windows Phone. Without the power of the Nokia brand behind them, Lumias simply had no customers. And you'll see that happen again now with HMD devices. They were already selling badly 'cause they were just releasing rebranded Chinese garbage. But without the NOKIA logo in the phones, NO ONE is going to buy HMD phones.
As a former insider, I can confirm your account is accurate. Microsoft's first step after acquiring the Nokia phone business was to fire sales and marketing teams. And sales went down, so they cancelled the roadmap. And sales went down. 🤔🤷♂️
From other vendor's perspective (I've also worked with Nokia phone software, before smartphones) - when Nokia chose Microsoft, we all just shook our heads. This will ruin Nokia. Microsoft had neither enough embedded experience, nor telecom/phone device/market experience, nor operator experience. They just never proved being successful at anything that would matter in the telecom market, they didn't bring enough to the table... And, of course, as pointed out in the video, it was all years too late, the window of opportunity had already passed. Nokia held on to Symbian for too long, then they chose unproven Microsoft instead of Android
The one thing they couldn't 'tweak', was, that late in the game (year-wise) getting developers to create apps that ran on that platform. They were already stuck making an iOS version and an Android version and it was like, "Uh... a third version for that low-percentage-adoption OS? No freakin' way."
I worked on the WP10 ad campaign and had a preproduction lumia 950, and while I thought it was nifty and funky, I just couldn’t figure out how to use it.
I remember being in the car with my dad, telling him nobody wants to put a slab of glass against their face, and touchscreens sucked. My phone at the time was the LG chocolate, lol.
I actually hope Microsoft have another run at mobile phones. I really liked the fresh approach to user interface design. I loved that for the higher end models they has a feature (Continuum), where you could plug into a KVM adapter and you basically have full blown desktop windows to use. No laptop needed. I think having a duopoly is never beneficial for consumers. A viable third alternative to Apple and android I think would be a good thing.
Is just too much effort to create a completely new mobile OS as where we are now. Take the example of MS Edge. The project is based on the same engine Chrome uses because Microsoft realized that creating and maintaining a modern web browser is not worth it. Developers don't want to maintain and release apps for third platform. If Microsoft re-enters the phone market, they would need to base their phone on Android. Otherwise they will never get the app support and eventually fail.
I agree, Microsoft can come in now and have a very competitive product. With Windows ARM expanded to run x86 apps. The ability to emulate iOS and Android Apps. And Continuum. They could bring something fresh to the market. But they would also need to invest a lot for OEM support and marketing. Their application ecosystem is already developed.
@paolooseI kinda agree but I kinda don't let me explain: All people would really have to do it make arm apps for the windows store on windows on arm and then they can could just that store on the phones
@KevinSmith-qi5yn I guess Microsoft can somewhat easily enter the space again especially while they're busy working on and pushing Win 11 ARM. It won't even need much maintenance as it remains on the Win 11 code. But the big thing they'll need to think about is user interface, because consumers wouldn't want a desktop UI crammed up on a slate mobile.
@localblackman427 Ya ever hear of Windows Vista? Or Windows 8? But you're absolutely right, Ballmer worked at Microsoft for 20 years before he ever became CEO and he was always the business guy. No way Microsoft is what it is today without Ballmer. But he eventually flunked out as CEO because the industry changed and he didn't (at least not fast enough). Also worth thinking about: All of Microsoft's cloud businesses were already established and running in some form when Satya Nadella took over. This little fact is often completely overlooked.
I was a Nokia developer (on the Symbian side) when Steve Elop forced Nokia over to Windows Phone (the infamous "burning platform" memo). At the time most Engineers were arguing for a switch to Android. The push for Microsoft was coming from (as far as I can tell) Elop himself, and that decision basically trashed Nokia as a phone manufacturer. I think the issue was a bit more complex then you suggest here and wrapped up with the Metro UI. Microsoft thought that if people saw the same or similar interface on both PCs and Mobiles, that would give them an edge. Reality is that the interface failed on PCs, so that itself strategy failed. Also the approach seemed less optimal for Windows (others may disagree) - for example, the wasted area down one side of the screen that just had an arrow. I also remember some strange issues if you re-entered an existing app - it might do so as it was a new instance. Whatever, I remember it being said in company briefings that if we went with Android, we would have to pay Microsoft more in patent compensation than it would cost to get use Microsoft Phone software. I think that would have been worth it.
I am still amazed this was never investigated for fraud or even embezzlement. The Nokia/Microsoft deal seemed like such a conflict of interest. It felt like MS got their people installed as decision makers to make the deal go through, and then a lot of the people approving the deal were on the board at Nokia and made money off of the big MS purchase. The whole thing felt very weird and shady to me
Thing is you say MS wanted to have a phone and PC on the same UI etc but even today Windows Phone doesn't even work at all. It supposed to connect to your phone should you leave it somewhere else but if the phone has a pin/thumb print unlock it won't work until YOUVE UNLOCKED IT so then theirs no point in using such a feature because most people have a lock for their android phone
I remember when I was 13 in middle school my dad bought me a palm trēo (which I still have in a drawer) because he got some deal. I thought it was so cool it had the internet and did all kinds of things but a few months later my friend’s older brother got and iPhone and the second I saw it I immediately looked at my phone like it was a flip phone. Once my dads contract ended and my little brothers phone was out of contract I got an iPhone 4s.
Kind of misreading the situation there. The mobile landscape was completely different and what mobile phone type that dominated on windows was the candybar with a qwerty keyboard. And in terms of adoption mostly business users were the critical users of smartphone devices (except major enthusiasts at the time like myself who had an HTC XV6600 and a Samsung i730). The issue isn't vision. That wasn't ballmer. That point was to maintain his customer base - the business users. The original iPhone struggled heavily with business users and a bevy of updates catered to making it easier to use with Microsoft exchange and providing a better user experience to business users who couldn't wait for Apple to present a product based solution to the dominated Microsoft platform.
he’s doing perfectly fine now. The iphone was a big risk the steve chose to take. the ed ceo now owns the La Clippers so i don’t think he cares that much
@malcolmjwilliams3521 1. You’re absolutely correct it was a completely different situation in the late aughts. 2. It was a lack of vision however that killed Microsoft’s mobile platform. Steve Jobs and his incredible team he winnowed had an idea of what the future could be, and relentlessly pursued it giving us the reality of today where the iPhone is now ubiquitous.
@faizr93 yes its an issue that people with apple devices think they are somehow better, but thats why I only let people with androids uses the guest wifi in my house, any frtiends with iphones or ipads come over no wifi sameway my one friend with a macbook i made him use his hotspot no dirty apple devices on my network.
@svr5423 high end Android is just as expensive. Apple never played the low price game. Android phones had to because most of the world can’t afford the high end phones.
@svr5423I will never use Apple. I like that that there is surprises with Android phones. Every phone is different. Not like the overrated, overpriced iPhone.
My old bus driver from when I was in elementary school had a Windows phone. The only times I've ever seen someone using Windows phones while Windows phones were still current was when my bus driver had to pull out his phone and do something.
One thing.... Snap crap.. Chat.. . It's really that simple. The CEO said no to developing the app for windows phone. Then every other new app, and remember that at that time, big apps blew up overnight, they just didn't supply a WP version. It's that simple. Zero app support when the big apps took off in that one year. Nothing to do with bad hardware of software.
The worst product I ever used from a major company, by very far, was Windows 8 with its so-called Metro design. I'm still (figuratively) in shock at how they ever released that OS. You would open a so-called Metro app on a quad-hd screen and everything would be so massive and so badly designed and so impractically positioned, as if they were aimed at children, or as if they were in early development. Crazy times for Microsoft.
@VideoboxInc Windows 8 was the only time in Windows history that MS didn't provide a way to revert to the old interface for those that didn't care for the new. Even Windows 95 let you use Windows 3.1 Program Manger if you wanted to. Many of the bad changes to the UI made in Windows 8 still plague the OS today.
Man I had a windows 8 laptop I bought it on clearance at work (RadioShack) not knowing it was windows 8. I used my old Samsung windows 7 more I hated it. I can’t remember what happened to it now. Edit: just remembered it’s in the closet i put 10 on it as soon as it came out with that free upgrade the first year I had forgot it was 8 when I got it.
It's kinda funny how Android feels like a portable Windows PC than the actual Windows mobile
Dont ever disrespect android like that again
Windows is trash at everything.
Android is goatish
Funny how that works, eh?
@KG-tt3nl
Why? Android is, practically speaking, just as locked down and shitty as Windows. The main difference is whether you want to get fucked by Google or Microsoft. Both of them are corporate spyware.
@KG-tt3nl What a moronic comment. The only thing android is great at is stealing your data.
[do_be_facts_tho_dot_gif]
I watched this just to see Steve Balmer laughing at the iPhone.
That never gets old.
I still laugh at iPhone any chance I get and then at a person who holds it in their hands. Then at them trying to defend it.
And he sucks at running the Clippers too 😂
@CobraFat2000 I laugh at people like you who care so much what phone someone uses
Everything Balmer said was spot on. The problem was Apple didnt market iPhone to enterprise but consumers. Balmer couldn't see the snartphone market beyond the business market and a consumer device came to dominate the enterprise market.
@kingdeedee And since it's the two of us laughing - the world is a better place. Some people even think we're lovers - seeing us in such harmony.
1. Extremely late to the game.
2. Asking people to pay for the OS when Android was free.
3. Lack of support for third-party apps.
Lack of support of first party apps too... Nokia has developed amazing apps for their lumias because ms didn't. Nokia made them general available later.. but it was too late already.
@benwagner7422 to be fair. Microsoft did attempt to compensate with some apps and they all got shut down. For example, Google would always shut down their apps etc .
And don't forget the stupid squares in the metro design interface. Simple, stupid, and very bad taste.
#3 is the primary reason. The only reason any mobile OS failed was because of apps. #2 is a good reason and they learned early that they shouldn't have went that route...lol
@dpactootle2522 What? I'd take Metro UI over most now and it was customizable. Did you ever use it?
I remember once when I was visiting a family gathering. I proudly showed off my Lumia phone and demonstrated the Deutsche Bahn app, which allowed me to see when a train was leaving. A relative asked, “Can you buy tickets too?” I said no. “Well, I can,” was his reply, which left me shocked.
But it took good pictures!
“Not Finnished Yet”
I thought, “What a silly typo! Oh, wait, he’s pulling a Finland pun, isn’t he?” Yup!
And it is still not Finnished.
HMD (human mobile devices ) a young Finnish company who used the Nokia name under license for their products doesn't renew the license the end of this year.
And they will use their own HMD brandname from now on.
While a Finnish phone brand (Nokia) is Finnished a Finnish phone is not Finnished 😉
always make this typo, and because most auto correct assume i'm talking about the country, they just capitalize the F and make the spell checkers miss the typo.
@obelic71 Yeah HTC did the same. They were an ODM for networked branded devices for a long time before they put their own monika on stuff.
Was in the exact same position....and the camera on the lumia was so good!
Lol😂
I see Steve Ballmer is running the L.A Clippers the same way he ran Microsoft lol😂
Terrible CEO that ruined Microsoft's potential, the issue wasn't redoing the last 10 years it was replacing him 10 years ago
Eh can't really have a perfect guy. If you hire someone who would have jumped on the big screen trend the same guy would jump on nft and crypto/blockchain etc.
@_A.t.gLike Apple and Google did?
Mixed ceo. he missed out on smart phone but tripled profits and revenue and released xbox and windows 7 so he had some winners.
It took Nadella years to wash the stench of Balmer off of Microsoft.
@eric-.true, now Microsoft emanates a different, more powerful stench.
Imagine your Windows phone shutting down to automatic update mid-call
*airhorns blaring* OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Well it didn’t work like that for phones.
@tayyabwaseem1well it’s a joke
lol
Rotten Apple! Good to see you subbed to Apple explained!
The stupid thing is, Bill Gates actually describes a modern smartphone in his book, the road ahead, published in the 1990s. But he didn't call it a smartphone, he called it a wallet PC.
Bill gates is a visionary, far more than any of his competitors ever were, but timing and execution can't be foretold.
technically he was right. Today' smartphones basically behave like a PC.
That's the thing that's always been the problem at Microsoft, they have great ideas their execution is so poor. Balmer is right, they dropped the ball integrating the hardware and software but they also lacked the integration that made Apple so successful in the mobile space.
I went through 3 zunes in a year... I honestly loved it but they just were not made well at all.
@gywghhb Yes, in fact Gates was talking about the "wallet PC" as early as 1993, a full 14 years before Jobs introduced the iPhone. The wallet PC was intended as a pocket device that would perform many different functions. The intention was that making phone calls would one be function of the device, but not the most important one. So the only difference between that and a smartphone is the emphasis on the phone functionality rather than the wallet functionality.
Problem of steve balmer is that he is just a great employee. He is not a visionaire or dreamer. He is just top of the line employee.
Yip he's no geek. Just a corporate guy. I mean why buy out a failed tech company like Nokia other than to appease shareholders because it's discounted?
Not really. He's a world class boss. He just wasn't fast enough to be in tech during that period.
I mean microsoft is a trillion dollar company currently so I think it turned out pretty well for them, you could say the same thing about Tim Cook if we are being honest
he was the VP of marketing. Microsoft marketing has always sucked. it never made sense giving him the reins.
Don’t quote me on this, but I think Nadella said that the strategies around pivoting the business to Saas & Cloud were started under Balmers watch then he took over and executed. I’m not one to defends Ballmer as he strikes me as a bit of a Buffoon, but it seems his weakness was having a keen sense for enterprise tech but not being in touch at all with consumer tech.
16:25 i love the lag lol
Lack of apps is what killed the platform. I had a Windows phone and it became increasingly frustrating to use, because none of the popular apps were available on it. Windows phone had a much nicer UI than any android skin available back then, but it lacked apps, and that's what ultimately killed it.
It was so annoying 😂 not a single app you were used to at the time was available for download. Only shitty web knock offs. I had a windows phone for a few months back in 2012 when iPhones were already growing for 4 years with apps so it was like taking a step back owning a windows phone. It was suoer frustrating 😂
Microsoft Office for the IPhone worked better then the one for their own phone.
@TheSjuris trash 😂
@rileyolson6008 that Androids are. Especially if you’re dumb enough to spend money on a high end one.
@TheSjuris I'd have to say, after using an iphone for a while, android is so much better. A lot of iphone people haven't used an Android phone since the 2010s, when they had weird UIs and quirky features. It's a completely different story today, and android is exceptional at everything, much more than iOS (speaking from experience, and as a software engineer).
I remember owning the Nokia Lumia when it came out. It had a gorgeous UI and amazing user experience, but the app support just wasn't there. Eventually switched to an iPhone 6s.
My husband had one the XL? Or something like that I think
Yep, the UI was vasty superior. They learnt from the mistakes of iOS and Android. Were just far too late and far to slow. Google were releasing major updates every few months, Microsoft once a year.
Still have my Lumia 640XL, dual-SIM 4G.. really love it. It had so many potential… but yeah, support was horrible.
Same, I had the lumia 735
Ngl by later stage of windows mobile ,it wasn't their fault .Google just wasn't ready to collaborate are it wouldn't mean loosing business . But on the other hand microsoft didn't really care enough to optimise their existing pc apps and make deals with software Devs even if it meant a drop in profits . Even in 2024 Microsoft still doesn't have a proper app store or proper touchscreen ui which is equivalent to ipados !
What’s crazy to me is them seeing and acknowledging the app shortage for years, and still not doing anything about it. Just that alone might have kept them in the game long enough to recover. - Sent from Android
They did try, but only after it was too late to make any meaningful difference. There were a couple of insider tech preview builds with android app support. It was slow and unstable, and then they just dropped it in the later builds.
Its Microsoft. They dont care
It's not really. They wanted a stable phone, and they did get that, back then Android phones had so many issues, including the high end ones. Windows Phone ran super smooth and didn't really crash. If it detected issues, it would do this quick reboot taking a few seconds and it would refresh the system.
They want to keep this going, and tried to get Devs to develop apps for it. Eventually they knew they had to switch to allow apps written in different coding languages, the issue was that it made the phone way less stable. Nothing major, but it was definitely noticeable.
@benyt179 Yes I acknowledge HTC Tatoo With Andrtoid 4.x did not even had BT file transfer, was very basic and had few updates and apps
They tried
People don't want to have an update mid-call apparently
same 30 second song looped over a 24 minute video
Steve Ballmer never seemingly understood that a device needs to be more than just capable of “doing stuff” but, doing things well.
Apple has a record of showing other companies how focusing on the smaller things is what matters, for example focusing on efficiency, whats a powerful processor if it heats up and destroys battery?
Its like a car- powered what’s the point of a massive powerful engine if there is no grip on the tires?
Him saying "it will do email", "it will do music" makes me cringe every time lol
For him it's either it does it or it doesn't, like user experience and convenience didn't even exist.
That was and still is the attitude of microsoft. It served them well in the 90s and early 2000s, it is a thing to get stuff done. meanwhile Apple has always been about user interaction and how it makes you feel when doing things. Nokia n95 which was the best phone when iphone came out smokes iphone, but iphone made you feel like you are in the future, same thing with their colorful macs and ipods etc...
@EinKlienerDonner Apple made the user feel special, like they bought gold. Other companies focused on how they thought something should work
He also seeming he failed to understand that his devices were going to be used by people who may be business people who were also mom's, dad's, photographers, dancers, just people.
It is kind of refreshing to hear a high level executive talk about how something is too expensive
Their CEO made so many mistakes over the years and they still let him run the company?
he was one of the Microsoft's founders, maybe it was a power and influence matter.
@pedromain balmer is not a microsoft founder thought ? same for natella !
@pedromainBill Gates and Paul Allen founded Microsoft. I’m sure Gates regretting elevating Ballmer, no doubt one of his biggest regrets in business.
@pedromain he was the accountant guy
And it’s crazy how the guy gets paid almost a billion a year I think from dividends.
18:15 "The NoBia Lumia"
😂
Having worked at Microsoft during this time as a designer I can confidently say it was two things. 1) late to market and not innovating enough 2) having a CEO such as Ballmer at the helm.
the design was the best out of the 3.
Windows Phone Failed, because they built a completely new os instead of just updating windows mobile 6.5 with a new UI. windows mobile actually had the best homebrew and dev community back then. XDA was originally all windows mobile mods tweaks before android was released.
@captain_elmo no
@philipribcheester1994 great insightful comment.
Also worked with Microsoft at the time. There were a LOT more issues than Ballmer. It's easy to say it was Ballmer than say the others at fault. There's a lot of blame to go around outside of Ballmer.
Carrier relationships, business partnerships, OEM relationships and then developers. I don't think Windows was late per se I think it's because of their standing in those communities at the time that resulted in it's failure.
And don't get me started on the advertising budget blown on stars and athletes to promote windows phone just to see them with an iPhone a day later.
There's a lot of fault to go around
crazy how time flies....
i didn't realize how OLD i actually was LOL
That’s my takeway from this was REALLY about
I still remember when I got my first job. I bought a Windows phone. Pokemon Go became popular, and everyone played it besides me, I was literally watching my friends play Pokemon Go while going on a walk and I couldn't play it. Never regretted buying a phone more. It barely had any popular apps.
Brutal. Pokemon Go was the nail in the coffin for me that made me switch to android. I had suffered for years by not having snapchat, candy crush, instagram, RUclips, any many other apps, and when Pokemon Go came out, I was done and bought an Android.
The windows phone came out in 2010. Pokémon Go came out in 2016. You had the windows phone all that time?
@DataBattlesZ2087 Could you kindly read my comment again. I said I bought it when I got my first job, I didn't say I bought the first Windows phone.
I went through the same thing man. It sounds stupid, but I really missed out on that magical summer. There were some crappy clients to kind of play the game, but it wasn't nearly the same. Back to android when I was done with that phone.
@DataBattlesZ2087trying to be condescending and failing bc your reading comprehension is weak 😂
Steve knew the potential of capacitive touchscreens
It failed because the CEO was an old fashioned "I know it all" guy
He’s one of the most successful men on earth and continues to be😂 God RUclips comments never fail to impress with their stupidity
Its Microsoft
@RasVojaJahYeah they are the trash can of technology. Everything they buy, they run it into the ground and then it’s gone. Windows is failing that will fail eventually. The only thing they have been anywhere near successful in is cloud and that’s mostly because of Linux. Why they’re trying to infiltrate open source Linux.
Microsoft just sucks at everything
no.. Balmer was a sales guy with little understanding of tech. He did Windows 8 and Vista
Steve Balmer was right. The iPhone indeed did not have a physical keyboard
What a visionary he was
As a Palm user all the way up to 2014 (up to the HP Pre 3), I absolutely still miss physical keyboards. I miss being able to type texts with touch instead of having to look. THAT SAID, when I switched to the Samsung Note 4, the larger screen was definitely a fair trade off. Even to this day, while I still miss physical keyboards, what I get in its place is still a square deal... it helps ease the pain.
In a way tho, Steve Balmer was right... at first. The original iPhone WASN'T really geared for business. It was a device "for everyone else", which has always been Apple's thing. The iPhone only took off for business definitely by the time the iPhone 4 came out, which was when they started adding those features that business users needed, like installable apps and copy-and-paste functionality. So Balmer definitely would've been wrong if iPhone 4 had been released as the first iPhone.
This is true, but ironically a decent amount of keyboard cases that add a portrait style keyboard under the screen exist now for iPhones. Since iPhones are very standardized, it's easier to do this for them than a 100 different kinds of Android phones, all with different form factors, even from the same manufacturer.
What’s really interesting to look back and compare is the reaction of Google and Microsoft when the iPhone was announced. Google went on “Oh shit” mode “we gotta start all over” and Balmer… Well, we saw his reaction in the video.
Now, years later, we compare the current state Android and Windows Mobile…
But to be honest, at the time I thought that Windows Phone was way better than Android, it was just too late to matter.
Dont forget blackberry. Once a king before iphone era
Dr. Eric Schmidt (thief) was on the Apple board when he started stealing iPhone design
@keithsweat7513who’s that?
@brittneyking4284the CEO of google, he was on the Apple board when the iPhone was introduced, I’m sure he ran back to his office and had an emergency meeting
Here is the thing, the funny thing was that Balmer wasn't 100% wrong at the time.
The issue was that he wasn't prepared for being wrong...
See, iPhone wasn't really ready to actually take over yet until the iPhone 4.
The gamble was, could iPhone be a good enough phone at $500 in a short enough period of time???
For Apple, this was also a gamble to see if they could pull it off in a short enough period of time.
Balmer just missed the point that if he was wrong, then it would be the end.... he had no contingency plan....
Even now, the Link to Windows app doesn't work for connecting to PC's
I always had a soft spot for the Windows Phone. They felt so different and I don’t think that feeling can exist in the modern day due to how mature phones have become
They have not become "mature," they have become stale and homogenised. Google keeps trying to make Android more like iOS for some reason, and Android OEM's keep trying to copy bad iPhone decisions such as removing 3.5mm port, removing expandable storage, using notches, etc.
@sigiligus Damn ok
@sigiligus🤓🤓
@sigiligusStock Android is noticeably different to iOS although stale. On the other hand iOS 18 looks more Androidified than ever and One UI 7 more iosified than ever which isn't always a bad thing.
I always kinda liked the "metro UI" on the Windows phone. The huge pictures and bright colors were great. They were just late as hell to the party because most people had either chosen a side already (iPhone or Android)
i think the biggest failure is the egoistic. Not listening and NOT willing to change that leads to the demise.
Yes MS essentially implemented same Windows monopoly strategy
Steve Ballmer is a perfect example of out of touch and delusional CEO.
He's the embodiment of a "we're too big to fail" mindset. The downfall of Microsoft occurred on his watch. Longhorn would've have been the final blow to the Desktop OS, but instead we got Vista...
He can't be that out of touch; his personal wealth amounts to $147 billion, ranking him as the seventh-richest individual globally. It seems like he's quite grounded, in my opinion.
@CuriousSparks224Downfall? Microsoft is the largest company in the world, by market cap. I'd say they're doing just fine. They just missed the boat on mobile
@festusssss No the mid 00's were a disaster for Microsoft... they got levelled up by both Apple and Google... they had the potential to be ahead of both, but Steve "Developers" Ballmer had NO VISION.
@Barnesy-HQ You assume a link between personal wealth and being grounded.
There is none. And you also do not even attempt to show one.
People get rich by statistics, not by any form of competency.
I bought one and it couldnt even open email attachemnts. The app store was trash and it was almost impossible to transfer content to it.
I still don’t get why Windows killed the compatibility with Android apps. That was their lifeline.
Between maintenance and licensing libraries, it was probably a headache that would have ended up breaking the OS when Google decided to change their API when moving to later Android versions. It's the reason a lot of old Android apps don't work properly on new phones, or won't even install.
@errorxf00feven Android itself doesn't support very old apps. Those it supports even now could be supported by Windows in the same way. Just keep some old libraries for a certain time. Like MS keeps old .net libraries only for a time. That's all it costs to support old apps.
@errorxf00f I mean, it was either learn to update with Google, or die. We see which choice they made.
A compatibility layer is always a band aid. It will always be worse than native apps. It also removes all incentives to make windows phone apps.
@knorze1777 don't think so, see wine.
Steve Ballmer’s interview aged like fine milk. 😂
I don't know... It's not that he was wrong - the idea was ludicrous, the phone was expensive AF and most business people in high places are one of the more stagnant and stubborn people on the planet who rejected Pocket PCs and more touch capabilities they offered before Steve came and found the words and the right pair of jeans to give the same stupid innovation everyone else was pushing years before and actually sell it. And what was he supposed to say? "All my golf buddies that are idiots... some of them still use tape to store data because they think IRS knows best".
It’s a good case study for business people.
Sometimes you have to project confidence about the product your company is selling and underplay competitors.
Just like the clippers
@CobraFat2000 No. He was wrong.
As a former Nokia Lumia user, I find this story heartbreaking. The OS had real potential and the way a Windows phone worked was not bad, but the lack of app support, amongst other things, was a big downer. However, I was a loyal Windows phone user and only replaced mine in 2020. I still miss the Metro interface and the keyboard though.
Same here my friend, windows phone was and will always be truly special. A true diamond in the rough. Truly, a magnificent work of art down to the beautiful UI
@A.a.IsForAaliyas , I agree! The whole ecosystem had so much more potential and the UI was awesome and very ergonomic. I still miss it.
Exactly...
I ended up doing the same thing, by giving up my Windows phone in 2019 for an android phone from LG. I'm now using a Android phone from Motorola.
I always believed that the screen was visually beautiful. So clean, bright, beautiful. And the camera was great at the time. Such a shame.
I had a Nokia Lumia 920 when I was a teenager and I remember being so jealous that all my classmates could use Facebook, Instagram and RUclips in school while I was stuck looking at the same photos in my photo gallery because the photo gallery was literally the only thing entertaining on that phone. After that I switched to Samsung.
You could do all that in the browser though. But yeah, using mobile webpages isn't the way it was meant to be.
Idk there was 6snap until they shut it down lol
But it took good pictures!
For two-years my Nokia Lumia Windows Phone didn't even have copy & paste. Imagine that. I melted inside and went back to iPhone after those years.
This reminds me of a joke from the big bang theory.
In the flashback episode where leornard tells the story how he met sheldon in 2003, when raj shown sheldon an ipod sheldon said " I assure you, you'll be sorry you wasted your money on an iPod, when Microsoft comes out with theirs."
The Zune is still better than ipod
It aged like fine wine
Lmao
@Soguwe like star lord getting a zune from yondu after his walkman was destroyed, i found hilarious how even marvel and microsoft did a contest to give away a new unopened zoom for guardians vol 3
@Soguwe
How was it better explain?
@lesleyhaan116 It isn't an apple device. Which means you can use it however you want without asking for permission.
I never owned a windows phone but I did own a surface tab. I used to be frustrated by the fact there were barely any apps especially youtube. I could imagine it was the same with their phones.
Surface RT was the problem...
This man on miniature looks like one character from "no I'm not a human" lmao
One note, Android was originally under development before the iPhone but for a BlackBerry style device, a prototype was even shown, however they quickly shifted gears once the iPhone was announced.
kool
blackberry should have done better, sad.
@bettrswan Yeah - trouble was their CEO was an idiot and didn't move to compete. You have to adapt or you die - BB didn't adapt. Eventually they switched over to Android but it was too late.
Initially Android was designed to a a UI for Cameras ! Sad to see that never happened . An Android 1.0 based ui mirrorless camera could shake the entire market !
Lies the android did have a iphone but once they saw iPhone they had to redo everything to copy them
One day in 1996, my stepdad came home with the first Palmpilot. He told the whole family that in the next decade or two, everyone will have a device like this that does everything a phone, pc, camera, and discman can do. He stressed how it would just be a screen, no keyboard or stylus, and that it would basically replace every gadget we own. He even said it will do video calls. He talked about Moors law and LCD tech making it inevitable.
Liar
He has an upload on his channel of it
Your dad was a visionary who could see the future, unlike the fatboy Steve Ballmer.
No stylus?
Galaxy S24 Ultra
@tech.audio.journey stylus in the early 2000s was not the same as it is today. back then, stylus was the only touch input you could use. you couldn't use your fingers to operate the device. that's why apple said "yuck" to stylus when they introduced the iPhone, because they had similar devices that could only be operated by stylus, namely the apple newton.
today, the stylus is just an accessory that you can use alongside your own fingers.
I had 2 Windows Phones and loved them. The issue was the lack of apps .
It broke my sister's heart when the Windows Phone shut down. I remember going to the Sprint store to pick out a new phone. She got a Samsung phone in the end.
I loved the windows phone the user interface was just perfect, I wasn’t so worried about the lack of apps as it did all I wanted. It was a sad day when I had to choose between an android phone or iPhone, but I still thought both were inferior to my windows phone. I went with android in the end as it was more adaptable and open than the iPhone’s closed ecosystem. I still really don’t like android to this day but I would never go over to iPhone mainly because of the closed ecosystem and the fact I feel they are well over priced.
@nigelfreeman6192Is the closed ecosystem rly a problem? You pay for high quality and convenience
I had a nokia windows phone and the lack of apps was very frustrating.
Balmer ending up owning the Clippers of all teams is so poetic
I really enjoy these longer-form explained videos. It’s not just info-dumping but also storytelling. Plus, I could listen to Greg discussing tech all day long.
5:37 Google acquired Android in 2005
19:39 That guy looks like the love child of Norman Reedus and Adrien Brody.
i love window phone design so much, especially nokia lumia lines
try HMD skyline, its an N9 looking. and you can fix it yourself.. also Launcher 10 gives live tiles
That man said “it’s got all the internets, but it’s not a good email machine” 😂😂
1:33 It's 99 Dollars It's an incredible value but it's true!
I remember kinda wanting a windows phone when I saw my friend with one but it didn't have RUclips yet and I wasn't willing to wait
If they were around today, Microsoft would force you into a $9.99 monthly subscription just to use your phone.
No way would MS be cheaper than Mint Mobile.
Lmao! That's so true. I feel like you could make phone calls for free, but you could sign up for "premium" phone calls for $5.99 a month so you could get HD audio and save contacts. Lol
@xxH0LT45xxthe commenter meant phone subscription which does not exist not cell phone plan bud. He was clowning on Microsoft
They would log and want to own every conversation
That’s probably true partly. But today it seems companies have gotten very smart. They have figured out a way to get residual income using subscription services. Microsoft Office is a good example. Even car companies are doing this if you want to use their app to monitor your vehicle. And so forth.
Lol they were so small minded back then 0:59
Ego... ego is your enemy
i don’t blame them since their Palm Treos was pretty successful - they felt like iphone was a step back and at that price sheeesh, but boy was they wrong.
Good compilation of all the failures that Microsoft and Nokia made. Perfect case study of business schools.
“Not finnished yet”💀
how Steve ever became CEO is amazing - one of the most incompetent managers ever
…
@crispyy123 that person is referring to Steve Ballmer, and they hoped you would interpret their comment the way you did, because they thought it would be funny.
@ComparedToWhat5😂
Most companies are like that
@ComparedToWhat5 Oh okay😭
I REALLY miss my windows phone, it was the most beautiful phone I've ever had.
Your guide dog misses it too 😂
@smoll.miniatures?
@mrlucas1501 I was insinuating that to find a windows phone beautiful, you’d have to be blind… Im here all week, try the veal.
@smoll.miniatures lol
windows continum walk so samsung dex could run
They underestimated the power of the touch screen. Those fooooools
I could fly type with those key boards though
I remember very well when the 1st iPhone came out. I was working for a mobile phone carrier and they had some kind of deal with Blackberry. I remember that a Blackberry representative came to our office and for almost one hour, he told us about how the iPhone sucked and how the Blackberry was so much better for both business people as well as regular people.
To be fair, it actually was. A lot better. But it didn’t have the wow factor of the iPhone.
@mattdebyl8806Maybe right at the beginning for business users. But by iPhone 4 the BlackBerry already looked like a relic in hardware and software.
Woooooooow windows phone was my introduction into the world of smartphones. I remember all the apps it did and didn’t support. Had me looking like an idiot in school for having a weird Facebook and Instagram
The only reason they failed was because they couldn't pursue developers for their app store, they had immense potential. I used a windows 8 phone. top notch optimisation, durable build, zero lag software and a pretty powerful camera. But sadly I owned a device more powerful than an Iphone and an android that didn't have enough apps that would put all those good hardware to use. My friends used to mock me for not being able to use Instagram.
Switched to android in 2014 and never looked back
That's true, I had a Lumia 535 and I loved it so much until I couldn't use any apps I liked. It was like having a super console with zero game in it. Finally switched to android. I feel sorry for Nokia for not joining android in good time.
is it possible to made them now or too complex?
For all of Microsoft’s huge cash pile, why they didn’t outright pay developers to create Win Phone versions of their apps still makes me shake my head to this day.
Which is ironic as I know Steve Ballmer did a really energetic sweaty-pit CEO speech about Developers in 2006. If only the man took his own advice!
I will always call developers lazy millionaires with all their Apple and Google money
1:07
This is the equivalent of when blizzard said "you think you want it, but you don't"
Typing on lumia phones was so satisfying
Keep up the work Greg. I love these explained videos
i liked Windows Phones, particularly when Nokia was in it.
But there wasn't enough support so the writing was on the wall early on.
No devs, no apps, no phone
No, Microsoft's first big mistake was letting Steve Ballmer take the reins. That guy was a disaster.
"The lost decade" is the term employees and stockholders use for Ballmer's time as CEO.
Agreed. This guy was a Buffoon.
And rightfully so 😅 @ChrisDreher
Ballmer also put the incompetent Roz Ho in charge of the Windows phones and Zunes. She was even worse.
They even cancelled MSN messenger… how stupid can you be! They had 100% market share in social media!
Beating Windows phones was going to be easy. What floored me is how quickly Blackberry became obsolete. In 2006 there wasn't anything hotter and more addictive than a Blackberry. Their sales reps I had to deal with for clients were some of the most arrogant people I ever met. They were printing money. 5 years later... it was basically a rotary phone. I still think a Blackberry physical keyboard was better than any touch keyboard I've had. Both Droid and Apple.
No app store killed BlackBerry. iPhone hardware at the time is an engineering masterpiece. What BlackBerry should have done was embrace Android.
BlackBerry should have offered 3 models, no keyboard, 3 key (back, home, active apps), full keyboard.
My family are all iPhone users, and they simply don't care what others think. Business people DO care because of cost.
The engineering firm I worked for at the time got us the Blackberrys with the Nextel Direct Connect and I loved that setup. Still have it sitting in a drawer somewhere.
Apps. Blackberry was whack with that. Also, capacitive touch was good enough for texting. Typing long emails were stupid. Blackberry never got the memo. Lol
@vasantos-re4hbblackberrry should have made its own ios
@dgmessenger If you use word prediction which correctly predicts almost all words for me, nothing beats that typing speed. It's comparable to typing on a pc keyboard which is great for work. There's a good reason why a small physical keyboard isn't a thing anymore.
Developer’s Developer’s Developer’s Developer’s…😂
A Clock?
Monkey Boy!
lack of developers developers developers
no apps, no sale
Kia and Nokia could make a funny commercial together.
Because that guy there at 0:19 looked like gangsta
Hate his ass
steve ballmer's a criminal
He is a billionaire
@yourZraihan Is he one of those born into a wealthy family, on a golden mattress?
@krollpeter He did come from a fairly wealthy background but his luck was befriending Bill Gates and Paul Allen in college.
21:52 Microsoft recovered NOTHING.
NOKIA recovered that. And THAT was the big problem. Windows Phone was NEVER what sold the phones. The NOKIA brand was selling the Lumias.
Nokia's tradition of quality and best cameras on the market was what sold NOKIA Lumia phones. It was NOKIA that carried on its back the entire platform. It was NOKIA who had to FORCE Microsoft to constantly release updates to Windows Phone 8, to enable Nokia to innovate and bring to market things that nowadays many people think Apple or Samsung invented (like Always On displays, pixel-binning in photos, live photos, directional audio recording, oversampling of images, etc).
So when Microsoft purchased Nokia's Devices and Services business, they basically killed Windows Phone. Without the power of the Nokia brand behind them, Lumias simply had no customers.
And you'll see that happen again now with HMD devices. They were already selling badly 'cause they were just releasing rebranded Chinese garbage. But without the NOKIA logo in the phones, NO ONE is going to buy HMD phones.
As a former insider, I can confirm your account is accurate.
Microsoft's first step after acquiring the Nokia phone business was to fire sales and marketing teams. And sales went down, so they cancelled the roadmap. And sales went down. 🤔🤷♂️
I couldn't agree more.
From other vendor's perspective (I've also worked with Nokia phone software, before smartphones) - when Nokia chose Microsoft, we all just shook our heads.
This will ruin Nokia.
Microsoft had neither enough embedded experience, nor telecom/phone device/market experience, nor operator experience. They just never proved being successful at anything that would matter in the telecom market, they didn't bring enough to the table...
And, of course, as pointed out in the video, it was all years too late, the window of opportunity had already passed.
Nokia held on to Symbian for too long, then they chose unproven Microsoft instead of Android
Is Nokia still around? Why doesn’t someone resurrect the company and release Android phones?
@daveinpublic Uh. Yeah. Not hard to look up
YAY YOU’RE FINALLY BACK!!!
I can never see Steve Ballmer without thinking about young Frankenstein.
Love the long-form vids! Please keep them coming, great job
I hope Amazon's Fire Phone gets a similarly deep dive.
I had a Windows phone in from 2013-2016 and it's still one of my favorite UIs. It had a ton of potential if they just tweaked a few things
Absolutely. Windows Phone was great. But nobody developed apps for it and we're all stuck with shitty iPhone and Android as the result.
Only if they forked android os and created windroid 😂
The one thing they couldn't 'tweak', was, that late in the game (year-wise) getting developers to create apps that ran on that platform. They were already stuck making an iOS version and an Android version and it was like, "Uh... a third version for that low-percentage-adoption OS? No freakin' way."
I worked on the WP10 ad campaign and had a preproduction lumia 950, and while I thought it was nifty and funky, I just couldn’t figure out how to use it.
I remember being in the car with my dad, telling him nobody wants to put a slab of glass against their face, and touchscreens sucked. My phone at the time was the LG chocolate, lol.
I mean, you were right lol. I use bluetooth or speaker whenever I speak on my phone. I hate having to put it against my face to speak.
LG Chocolate was cool though!
I had a black lg chocolate, what an icon
I actually hope Microsoft have another run at mobile phones. I really liked the fresh approach to user interface design. I loved that for the higher end models they has a feature (Continuum), where you could plug into a KVM adapter and you basically have full blown desktop windows to use. No laptop needed.
I think having a duopoly is never beneficial for consumers. A viable third alternative to Apple and android I think would be a good thing.
Is just too much effort to create a completely new mobile OS as where we are now. Take the example of MS Edge. The project is based on the same engine Chrome uses because Microsoft realized that creating and maintaining a modern web browser is not worth it.
Developers don't want to maintain and release apps for third platform. If Microsoft re-enters the phone market, they would need to base their phone on Android. Otherwise they will never get the app support and eventually fail.
I agree, Microsoft can come in now and have a very competitive product. With Windows ARM expanded to run x86 apps. The ability to emulate iOS and Android Apps. And Continuum. They could bring something fresh to the market. But they would also need to invest a lot for OEM support and marketing. Their application ecosystem is already developed.
@paolooseI kinda agree but I kinda don't let me explain: All people would really have to do it make arm apps for the windows store on windows on arm and then they can could just that store on the phones
@KevinSmith-qi5yn I guess Microsoft can somewhat easily enter the space again especially while they're busy working on and pushing Win 11 ARM. It won't even need much maintenance as it remains on the Win 11 code. But the big thing they'll need to think about is user interface, because consumers wouldn't want a desktop UI crammed up on a slate mobile.
"Duopoly not great" well Microsoft is part of duopoly in other technologies
Don't ever change the background music
Better than AI generated video. Could’ve shaken it up a bit, but it’s fine without new music.
(Edit for grammatical correction)
the og background music still is king
It’s kind of distracting tbh. Could be turned down.
@CountJeffula you’re new to the channel, right?
@Pearloryx correct.
Lack of vision and a disgruntled strategy, just by becoming a ceo doesn't means a person has always vision....😂
Ballmer is one of the worst CEO in the history
They did this at the same time as releasing the Xbox One.
While he blew it with the iPhone, he’s a Billionaire and MS is still around and doing well.
@Wanted797which was a huge flop.
This is wrong. He grew Microsoft to be the money machine it is now. He just didn't swap to mobile. His only mistake
@localblackman427 Ya ever hear of Windows Vista? Or Windows 8? But you're absolutely right, Ballmer worked at Microsoft for 20 years before he ever became CEO and he was always the business guy. No way Microsoft is what it is today without Ballmer. But he eventually flunked out as CEO because the industry changed and he didn't (at least not fast enough).
Also worth thinking about: All of Microsoft's cloud businesses were already established and running in some form when Satya Nadella took over. This little fact is often completely overlooked.
15:04 not “finnished” yet. Guess they’re not from Finland.
Figured that one out on your own, eh? Nice.
I was a Nokia developer (on the Symbian side) when Steve Elop forced Nokia over to Windows Phone (the infamous "burning platform" memo). At the time most Engineers were arguing for a switch to Android. The push for Microsoft was coming from (as far as I can tell) Elop himself, and that decision basically trashed Nokia as a phone manufacturer. I think the issue was a bit more complex then you suggest here and wrapped up with the Metro UI. Microsoft thought that if people saw the same or similar interface on both PCs and Mobiles, that would give them an edge. Reality is that the interface failed on PCs, so that itself strategy failed. Also the approach seemed less optimal for Windows (others may disagree) - for example, the wasted area down one side of the screen that just had an arrow. I also remember some strange issues if you re-entered an existing app - it might do so as it was a new instance. Whatever, I remember it being said in company briefings that if we went with Android, we would have to pay Microsoft more in patent compensation than it would cost to get use Microsoft Phone software. I think that would have been worth it.
NOKIA/WINDOWS short for No Win😢
I am still amazed this was never investigated for fraud or even embezzlement. The Nokia/Microsoft deal seemed like such a conflict of interest. It felt like MS got their people installed as decision makers to make the deal go through, and then a lot of the people approving the deal were on the board at Nokia and made money off of the big MS purchase. The whole thing felt very weird and shady to me
Thing is you say MS wanted to have a phone and PC on the same UI etc but even today Windows Phone doesn't even work at all. It supposed to connect to your phone should you leave it somewhere else but if the phone has a pin/thumb print unlock it won't work until YOUVE UNLOCKED IT so then theirs no point in using such a feature because most people have a lock for their android phone
The metro interface was the stupidest design. Who cares about stupid squares, nobody.
I worked for Symbian too. The answer is simple - MS phone was a shit product :)
Wasnt there another phone after the Lumia series?
Video nostalgia is one of the reasons I love this channel. What a great video! Loved watching it! Thanks for the walk down memory lane!
I remember when I was 13 in middle school my dad bought me a palm trēo (which I still have in a drawer) because he got some deal. I thought it was so cool it had the internet and did all kinds of things but a few months later my friend’s older brother got and iPhone and the second I saw it I immediately looked at my phone like it was a flip phone. Once my dads contract ended and my little brothers phone was out of contract I got an iPhone 4s.
13:46 If you don’t have angry birds, you don’t have a mobile OS
It did have Angry Birds, but it didn’t have Snapchat
Lesson learned 😂
I’m pretty sure it did get Angry Birds later, but yeah. Not having that and RUclips were big issues for many
1:07 The dismissive hubris in his voice is all you need know about Steve Balmer.
@1:30 shows that he has no vision whatsoever!
Kind of misreading the situation there. The mobile landscape was completely different and what mobile phone type that dominated on windows was the candybar with a qwerty keyboard. And in terms of adoption mostly business users were the critical users of smartphone devices (except major enthusiasts at the time like myself who had an HTC XV6600 and a Samsung i730).
The issue isn't vision. That wasn't ballmer. That point was to maintain his customer base - the business users. The original iPhone struggled heavily with business users and a bevy of updates catered to making it easier to use with Microsoft exchange and providing a better user experience to business users who couldn't wait for Apple to present a product based solution to the dominated Microsoft platform.
he’s doing perfectly fine now. The iphone was a big risk the steve chose to take. the ed ceo now owns the La Clippers so i don’t think he cares that much
It's always easy to judge after the fact.
@malcolmjwilliams3521
1. You’re absolutely correct it was a completely different situation in the late aughts.
2. It was a lack of vision however that killed Microsoft’s mobile platform. Steve Jobs and his incredible team he winnowed had an idea of what the future could be, and relentlessly pursued it giving us the reality of today where the iPhone is now ubiquitous.
This is why Microsoft had to steal or acquire every invention they sold: they had no creativity and no sense of how to product manage.
The biggest win for Apple was that an iPhone soon become a luxury item instead of just a phone.
agreed, its fashion rather than pure tech, A lot of Value comes from "oo Apple"
@faizr93 yes its an issue that people with apple devices think they are somehow better, but thats why I only let people with androids uses the guest wifi in my house, any frtiends with iphones or ipads come over no wifi sameway my one friend with a macbook i made him use his hotspot no dirty apple devices on my network.
it's basically people paying extra to not have to deal with android
@svr5423 high end Android is just as expensive. Apple never played the low price game. Android phones had to because most of the world can’t afford the high end phones.
@svr5423I will never use Apple. I like that that there is surprises with Android phones. Every phone is different. Not like the overrated, overpriced iPhone.
i loved my windows phone
My old bus driver from when I was in elementary school had a Windows phone. The only times I've ever seen someone using Windows phones while Windows phones were still current was when my bus driver had to pull out his phone and do something.
One thing.... Snap crap.. Chat.. . It's really that simple. The CEO said no to developing the app for windows phone. Then every other new app, and remember that at that time, big apps blew up overnight, they just didn't supply a WP version.
It's that simple. Zero app support when the big apps took off in that one year.
Nothing to do with bad hardware of software.
I use Snapchat and TikTok more than Facebook, instagram, and twitter. And I’m like 25 lol
The worst product I ever used from a major company, by very far, was Windows 8 with its so-called Metro design. I'm still (figuratively) in shock at how they ever released that OS. You would open a so-called Metro app on a quad-hd screen and everything would be so massive and so badly designed and so impractically positioned, as if they were aimed at children, or as if they were in early development. Crazy times for Microsoft.
Seriously I went from 7 pro to 8.What a joke. Microsoft lost me as a customer.
They really thought tablets were the future of computers
@VideoboxInc Windows 8 was the only time in Windows history that MS didn't provide a way to revert to the old interface for those that didn't care for the new. Even Windows 95 let you use Windows 3.1 Program Manger if you wanted to. Many of the bad changes to the UI made in Windows 8 still plague the OS today.
Man I had a windows 8 laptop I bought it on clearance at work (RadioShack) not knowing it was windows 8. I used my old Samsung windows 7 more I hated it. I can’t remember what happened to it now. Edit: just remembered it’s in the closet i put 10 on it as soon as it came out with that free upgrade the first year I had forgot it was 8 when I got it.
The metro design was great for phones and tablets but not for computers.
Is that Rob Dyrdek at 13:50? on the right
LOL good eye. I think it is
who?
I miss playing those Halo games on Windows Phone..