Can Prophets Make Mistakes? | 3 Mormons
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- General Conference for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly known as the Mormon Church or the LDS Church) has just ended and seems to elicit a common question: Can prophets be imperfect? And when is a prophet wrong?
In this episode, David talks about how God uses imperfect people to carry forth his perfect work. He talks about how just as well all make mistakes, being human, the prophet is prone to making mistakes as well. Mimi and Kwaku both agree that we need to cut each other some slack when it comes to making mistakes. Mimi further emphasizes that God will never allow the prophet to put us on the wrong path where God can no longer direct His Church. It will always be directed by him.
What do you think? Have you ever wondered about a prophet's fallibility? Let us know in the comments below!
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So, how are you supposed to discern between inspired messages from God and a flawed human speaking their own flawed, human thoughts? Where is the line drawn between doctrine, revelation, culture, opinion, etc? I deal with this confusion constantly on a ward level AND a general authority level. What's the point in trusting anything anyone says if you know they're flawed and what they're saying is quite possibly wrong?
And please don't just say "pray and the holy ghost will tell you the truth" because, man, if only it were that simple.
Jared Tank I KNOW RIGHT!?!? I personally don’t even know who we WORSHIP! I know we worship the father, but based on conflicting statements of church members, leaders, and websites, I don’t know what to do
It's a good question. You need to rationally think "does this suit their needs? What gains could they get? Why would they say this?" That might help if you don't want to go into any spiritual side. Or just wait, but that isn't the best option.
Well that's a start. I'd say that if you've become accustomed to the Spirit, and if you're living your life the way you should, you will be able to tell. I can't say exactly what the answer is for you, but God will bless you to know. He will bless you to have understanding. That's all I can say.
Deuteronomy 18:15-22
There is no simple answer. However the Church has been consistent in the aspect of how we can know what's true doctrine and what's not. If it's in the scriptural cannon(Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, Pearl of Great Price, Official Declarations, and General Conference) it is official Church Doctrine. Anything outside of that(Including fire sides, journals, etc.) Can be taken with a different approach and caution. Deuteronomy 18:22 is way God has given us to test what Prophets say. If what they say doesn't come from the Lord or come to pass, we are not to worry and can be at peace knowing we don't have to follow that specific thing they said. Doesn't make them false prophets, but humans, as that scripture states. And regarding the Holy Ghost, it will guide us into all truth if we sincerely seek it and are willing to act upon the answers that come. When a General Authority claims to have received divine revelation from God, he must present it to the First Presidency and the Quorum of the 12 Apostles, and they must come together for a vote that must be unanimous. Then is must be presented to the body of the Church in General Conference for a sustaining vote. And then it becomes official Church doctrine. Despite all of this, it's not easy and still very complex and challenging. Regarding the culture of the Church, it's easy to spot that and pick up on things that are obviously false and come from members who are crazy and decide to preach their own doctrine. Hope this helps!
I myself am a recently converted Jew, but I have a Mormon friend named Daniel and I watch these videos to see what he believes. You guys are pretty cool!
Agency is a huge part of this earthly experience. He will let them make some mistakes, but he will never let them lead the church in the wrong direction.
So, blatant, egregious racism isn't the "wrong direction"?
@@VexingVelocity I would like you to read this. The whole thing. This should answer your question. www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng
@@VexingVelocity It's not really fair to judge people who lived during a time where racism was the normal way of society. Not saying it was right by any means, but how can we hold people who lived 200 years ago to the standards of today? The Church has disavowed all racism past or present with the hope we can all move forward. My wife is black and a convert to the Church. She and I don't understand all things, especially some contraversial things said by some of the leaders of the Church back in the day regarding the black race. But we can move forward with Faith knowing that what the brethern and Church teach now is that we can and should embrace people of all religions, color, and cultures, and that God loves ALL of his children.
Very few things in life are black and white, except in interracial marriages :)
@Jared Tank Oh, I see! A pack of whites up in the hills of NY and PA back in the day of the 1820 just decided to go out and say ''Let's go create a racist persuasion, discriminate against the black people myaaaaan!''. Just like Julie Ann's comment, a pack of whites just decided to go out create a persuasion, blaspheme against everything Jesus taught, feed our perverted lust myaaaaaan!
@@smdh99 What kind of Blasphemy? That God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are 3 persons, 3 separate divine Beings that make a single Godhead, which was taught by Jesus himself? Thus dispelling the Trinity belief that is nowhere to be found in the New Testament according to NT Scholars. Or maybe it's that God's Word is beyond the limits of the Bible. And that we all have the potential to become like God someday. The Bible and all of God's revealed Word teaches these truths.
I think my favorite part in the episode so far is when Kwaku equates eating Doritos to being a bad person. xD
Too funny!
Nacho's or cool ranch? Ha!
“It doesn’t make sense. Don’t think about it too much.” Truer words were never spoken.
Oh dear. JESUS IS WITH US NOW, YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, AND ALWAYS. He is the I AM. You said right at the beginning, obviously Jesus is not with us right now. He is hearing all of this right now. In love.
What I've realized about these shows is that they are part of a process. Those involved have got to the stage where they are coming up with rationalizations for the problem areas of their religion, instead of dogmatic assertions. This is progress.
Eventually the rationalizations, and energy involved will all become too much as they see that EVERY area needs constant explanation and excuses. Then they'll just realize (probably in their mid to late 20's) that it's time to calmly walk away from the whole mess.
I feel sure that Kwaku will not stay Mormon. He's just too smart.
If prophets can lie why base your faith on what they say? it's not sin we fear it's the lack of truth.
I don't think a Prophet would lie, so you have little to fear. The point was can they make mistakes? Well yes, because they are human, but mistakes and lies are totally different things.
Good question kirkland. I find this article helpful: www.fairmormon.org/blog/2014/10/07/does-god-authorize-his-prophets-to-make-mistakes
But in short, I think notable mistakes from prophets, historically and right now, are by far the exception to the rule. And I'm confident that none of them are done with malicious intent. God reveals truth to prophets, but I think it's then oftentimes up to the prophet to figure out how to implement that truth. For example, I believe God told President Nelson that using the name of Christ is extremely important. Then, President Nelson figured out (hopefully through inspiration, but that's not always a 24/7 thing) how to emphasize that to the membership (changes to the style guide, getting rid of nicknames, etc.) If mistakes are made, I think it's mainly in this second part of the process- the implementation of truth. Anyways, the article will be much more helpful than my personal thoughts haha.
The Restoration is still in process. 💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗💗
First and foremost thanks for the time and dedication you guys put into bringing the light of Christ to others through this platform. I am inactive but grew up in The Church of Jesus Christ of These Latter-day Saints. My goal is to go back to the church and to strive to stand in Holy places. I have partaken in discussions about Heavenly Father and our savior Jesus Christ. I'm trying to build my relationship with Heavenly Father and I know I can't by myself. As it will need fellowship and serving others as Christ did and being an example myself. I listened to General Conference and I appreciated Robert C. Gay Presidency of the seventy who gave a talk on taking upon us the name of Jesus Christ. This talk has touched my spirit as I know Heavenly Father hears our every prayer, thought and true intention. Robert C. Gay brought up his older sister who had struggles in life and was never really active in the church. Her husband left her to raise four kids on her own and she passed. Robert on the eve of his sister's passing was by her side to give her a blessing with her family around. Robert expressed that during that moment he was defining his sister's life experience and the choices she made. He then follows to say he had received a severe rebuke from the spirit in regards to the thoughts of defining her life choices. I will admit it's so hard to want to do good especially without being active in the church and the many temptations one encounters. I often think about what I do and choices I make are they bringing me closer to Heavenly Father or further. Heavenly Father is all-knowing and merciful something that as a materialistic human being would lack. The patterns of our physical being have proven that we have not yet been able to harness the power of our Heavenly Father and Saviors love. I mean with war, greed, politics and societal injustices among us there is no human on earth that we can turn to but the divine principles and foundations provided to us by the words of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ. I've learned so much from reading the Bible, scriptures and yet to learn a lot more. Heavenly Father is all-knowing that he can not only see our future but the very paths that we may have as our choices and figure by time and characteristics what we will do. For example, science has this method where one asks a question, does background research, constructs a hypothesis, etc. Imagine if Heavenly Father is able to control time to study us in such nature and massively analyze us metaphysically ever so observant hoping that we want to return to our heavenly home. Heavenly father is of good and righteous things and nature. Heavenly Father's laws were simple until men's/women's interpretations corrupted it for humans are corruptible. I do feel the church is still growing and is yet to learn a lot of things to progress as people who want to live righteously. And I know through small and simple things will great things come to pass. There are a time and season for the way that Heavenly Father works and the Saviors examples remain firm or constant throughout it. I know that learning the gospel of Jesus Christ while in my youth I've been blessed. I know that any kind of obstacles I may face I can endure through Jesus Christ for he has overcome the world.
After 33 years being a good member (high priest) I have left the church two weeks ago. My wife, children and grandchildren are still TBM.
I left because of the Gospel Topics Essays and because of the poor excuses in the GTE!
Joseph Smith wrote in his diary in 1832 that he saw the Lord (first vision account of 1832). In the 1838 first vision account he said that he saw Jesus and the Father. The GTE explained the fact that Joseph forgot the Father in his diary, in 1832: “It was Josephs first attempt to write-it-down”! How stupid do they think we are?!
I dare you to watch the Canadian Parliament Question Periods and then say that Canada is perfect. 😂
Ha! ;)
Jesus is here God is here “ Jesus said “ I don’t leave you a orphan I will send the Holy Spirit “
Wait, so which prophet is wrong? Was it Monson when he led the "Meet the Mormons" campaign, or was it Nelson who said that calling the members Mormons is a victory for Satan? Does this mean that Monson was scoring victories for Satan, or does it mean that Nelson's statement is just his opinion? I'm not trying to be difficult, I just genuinely don't understand.
You dont understand that you need to live your life according to the dictates of your own conscience?
I cant tell you how many times i have herd "A prophet will never lead the people astray"
Perfecting of the Saints is happening.
Kwaku would be a really fun gospel doctrine teacher.
tpbarron - Agreed.
Fun as in AWESOME!
Well, you technically can be entertaining even when you're wrong. He didn't answer the question properly because he didn't account for things that are beyond our control of stopping, like natural disasters and disease.
When the prophet talk we follow, never question his decision whether is wrong or right. The saviour said wether by my own voice or by my servant it is the same. Prophets were ordained by God through the power of the holy priesthood.
At 8:50 you state the doctrines can change. A friendly reminder: your church leaders disagree with you. Doctrines do not change, policies can however (in some cases). Whenever the church changes a doctrine, it redefines that doctrine to being a policy.
One relevant quote:
"Our understanding of God’s plan and His doctrine gives us an eternal perspective that does not allow us to
condone such behaviors or to find justification in the laws that permit them. And, unlike other organizations that can change their policies and even their doctrines, our policies are determined by the truths God has identified as unchangeable."
www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/10/no-other-gods?lang=eng
Dotrince changes all the time. Blacks aren't less valiant any more. Beer is forbidden (it didn't used to be and acutually recommend in section 89) I don't think you have to be polygamist to get into the highest level of any more. And I'm pretty sure the second anointing is no longer required for salavtion.
@@coalhouse1981 If dotrince keeps changing how can you trust it?
@@orionsorbit you can't
LOOOOVE!!! Thank you!!!
I was just thinking about what David said about the Apostle Peter cutting the ear off of a Roman soldier. The soldier was among those who Judas brought with him to take Jesus away after he would betray him. I was just trying to imagine the scene of this. Surely the other soldiers were getting prepared to kill Peter for the attack. Jesus intervened and probably put his arms out to stop any further bloodshed. He probably reached down and took the bloody ear in his hands and without saying a word placed it back upon the shaken Roman soldier and healed it, to the astonishment of the other Roman soldiers there. Can you imagine how they felt then? They knew now Jesus was no ordinary man, and probably did not want to take part in this betrayal any further. But they were constrained to complete the task they were commanded by their leaders to do and take Jesus into custody. That soldier was the only non Jew that Jesus healed, because his calling was only to the Jews at this time. Later Peter was called by Christ to take the gospel, which including priesthood healing's to the gentiles. I wonder if these Roman soldiers may have converted to Christ's church later if they were still around? It is something to wonder about. Just some random thoughts I have sometimes. :)
Because Julie Ann. His whole ministry he only taught the Jews. (His covenant people). Read the New Testament girl. When it was taken to the rest of the world, it was after his crucifixion and resurrection. Peter (as now the 'earthly leader'of the church) was then commanded by the Lord to take the gospel to the rest of the world and to the gentiles as well as the Jews.
No problem. Also, sorry if I came down on you a little hard. I don't mind discussing religion, I just don't like it when others who do not understand our faith are demeaning. Oh, and by David in this case, I was referring to David the 3 Mormon's host. LOL! The one with the beard. ;)
Amen! Thank you.
Why didn't Joseph Smith translate the book of Mormon into the language of that day? The Bible was written in the language of that time, so why didn't Joseph do that?
Just wondering?
I'm confused. He translated it into English, the language of that day. Is that what you mean?
David, I think what she is meaning is the Bible was translated in an old English style of wording for the time it was printed in English for that era, and so why didn't Joseph Smith use a more modern English style of wording for the Book of Mormon in his day? Well Emmy, this was the 1820's/1830's era, and many old English ways and manner of speaking was still around. Especially in churches and religious gatherings. The English Bible (which was the Original King James Version), was the version Joseph Smith read and loved and was familiar with. That is probably why he chose to use OKJV Bible style of wording on the Book of Mormon translation. Besides that, I think it simply was a beautiful language to convey what was being said. Saying thus, thy, thine shall, etc. Makes the words sound more spiritual doesn't it?
@@KevlarX2
Yeah, I guess that would make sense. 👍
Emmy Jo pleasant to see yet again a familiar and brave soul fighting for the cause of truth and knowledge I presume. I myself came down from the Mountains to visit yet again the 3 mormons village. may your travels be prosperous and safe and may you bring the much needed critical thinking skills that the Men and Women of this Channel so desperately need. Seasons greetings fellow traveler🍁🎃
@@whencecomestthou8624
Hello my friend. It's great to hear from you. Just came from the mountains huh? I'm very envious.
It reminds me of the trips to Alabama and Tennessee with my grandparents. We had relatives that lived on the mountain. Such good times.
Are you still in the church?
Tough situation buddy.
I agree with you about the critical thinking, just not sure it's possible anymore.
Ever feel like we're living in, Alice in Wonderland. 🔎
"Where up is down and down is up. Good is wicked and wicked is good."
"But I don't want to go among mad ppl. Oh you can't help that...we're all mad here."
"You have to run fast to stay in one place. If you want to go somewhere, you have to run twice as fast."
"Curiouser and curiouser"
I want to go back to the days, when that was just a children's book.
Before we slid down the rabbit hole. 🐰🐰😃
Where's the nearest exit outta here? 😁😁
I hope you keep in touch, so i can make sure you're staying sane.
Until then , you have a great holiday too, 🍁🍃🍊
brother Whence (😉)
So could a prophet give false revelation? You said in this video many times that prophets are imperfect humans, and they can be wrong sometimes, and they can preach false doctrine. So what if they teach false revelation? If they are humans then they could definitely get revelation wrong right? How do we know what to follow? And "having faith and praying" is not really an explanation. Genuinely curious what your thoughts are.
Sure they can. Here's kind of a weird example, but I think there's some truth to it. Have you seen the movie Evan Almighty? Bear with me. In the movie, God tells Evan there's going to be a flood. Evan then goes about telling people that it's going to rain and cause a flood. The flood did indeed come, but it was from a ruptured dam and not the rain. So, technically, Evan was wrong. He falsely told people the flood would be caused by rain. An understandable mistake, but a false revelation. I think similar things can happen in real life. I think most mistakes are simply honest mistakes, based off of a truth.
If they teach false revelation, it will be corrected in time. Sometimes over a long period of time. And it's OK to have questions about revelations. You don't have to have a testimony of everything all at once in order to believe in the restored gospel. I have a testimony that The Book of Mormon is true, and that helps me be patient with other controversial issues from our history. Of course, there can be a lot of harm done in the time before a false teaching/revelation is corrected. I mean, what about all those black people who were banned the temple over the years? I have confidence that justice will be served and all will be made right in time. I mean, Adam was a prophet and he disobeyed God in such a huge way that sin and death itself entered the world. But every injustice that comes about as a result of that decision will be made right in time. So it is with any decision made by any other prophets.
I think that if we had as much information and detail about the history of ancient prophets (the Bible/Book of Mormon), we'd find events just as (if not much more) controversial than the ones in our modern church history. In fact, there are some quite controversial events recorded but because they're in the Bible we don't look at them with as much criticism as we do to less familiar events, like those from our church's history. I mean ... the Israelites wiped out entire civilizations (men, women, and children) on God's command. Today we'd call that genocide. Nobody bats an eye. Just interesting stuff to think about. Anyway, I'm rambling but I hope that helps. Also this link was helpful to me: www.fairmormon.org/blog/2014/10/07/does-god-authorize-his-prophets-to-make-mistakes
Oh but in response to your actual question haha, "how do we know what to follow?" You might not like it, but it's the same answer it's always been: "By the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things." The prophet is close to the Holy Ghost, but he's not the Holy Ghost. It's good to have faith in the prophet, but faith in Christ is essential. My philosophy is that if you're trying your very best to live righteously, the Holy Ghost is going to keep you on the right path and correct you when you slip up. Prophets teaching false revelation, I think, is by far the exception to the rule. And I think God has inspired policies that help protect against personal opinions from slipping through the cracks nowadays, at least on the really important stuff. I think now more than maybe any time in history we can be confident in the principles the prophets have to teach.
Thank you for this response. I appreciate that you're willing to admit that prophets can make mistakes and I appreciate that you gave me a real response. When I try to talk to people about controversial things a lot of people will never admit that there is some fault in the church, and it is hard to have a real conversation with people about controversial things because ultimately the answer is "have faith". Growing up I always had so many questions about church because its normal to question religion. (at least I think it is, especially when you're growing up) But I was always dismissed when I asked legitimate questions because a lot of my leaders were not willing to admit faults in the church. They would just tell me, you're thinking about it too much, don't question it and just have faith. But to me that's so dangerous when people want to question things and they are told not to. I think this is because if you start questioning one thing, then sometimes everything can come crumbling in. So a lot of times people just avoid questioning church altogether because they know that if one thing doesn't make sense, then other things may not make sense either. But anyways, I really appreciate this response and the fact that you realize that yes, prophets are not perfect and they can get revelation slightly wrong sometimes. And I like that you know this and still choose to go to church because you believe in the holy ghost. You probably have a stronger testimony for accepting this than people who just blindly follow and never question anything their whole life. @@davidsnell2605
Great thoughts, Sarah. Questions are inevitable in any religion. I think the main problem is that we grow up with kind of a "fairy tale" perspective of the Church, which is understandable, because the gospel is simply miraculous. But the human part of the Church, while still miraculous, is fallen in a lot of ways. If we'd teach that, starting when kids were young, I don't think it would have such a devastating effect when they find out about it when they're older. People wouldn't feel "deceived," (even though that's never been the Church's intention). But I think the new "Saints" books are really going to help with that for future generations.
Anyway, I'm rambling. The point is: Faith implies questions. If there weren't questions, faith wouldn't exist. So don't freak out when questions arise. It is dangerous in that it can have a domino effect, as you mentioned, but it doesn't need to. There are different weights attached to different truths, I think. Some are more important than others. God living on a planet named Kolob is probably true, but whether or not The Book of Mormon is real is a MUCH weightier truth. For me, the weight of the truth I believe is simply much heavier than the questions I have. So I can look at my questions and say, "Hm, yeah, good point. That doesn't quite make sense. I wonder what happened there. Hopefully I find out one day." I hope that makes sense. Anyway, feel free to message us with any other questions you've got. Have a good one!
Yeah, I think that if I had gone to church with more people like yourself I would probably still be active. But I was pushed away by a lot of the cultural aspects of church and the general attitude of blind believing and not questioning things. I know that I probably shouldn't have let that affect my decision to go to church, but personally I have found a lot more happiness and peace outside of the church. Whatever makes you happy right? But I'm glad there are some level headed people in the church still. @@davidsnell2605
I'm glad you've found what you were looking for. If you don't believe the gospel we teach is true and therefore don't attend, that's one thing. If you *do* believe it's true but don't attend anyway, that's another thing (and I invite you to try coming back one day!). But either way, I wish you the very best on your journey!
I dont expect prophets to he perfect but I do have a problem with prophets preaching false doctrine, racism, hypocrisy, false prophecies, lying, pedophilia, criminal, marrying other peoples wives, etc. Too much for me to accept. I've never done any of those things and I dont claim to be speaking for God either.
So many passes given to prophets that would not be afforded to others. I hear excuse making.
Sincere question: Why did the Great Apostasy occur? This may be a misunderstanding on my part, but I thought you believed it was because of the failure of men. I'm wondering why God would protect His restored church from men's imperfections, but not Jesus' original church and the one you believe He established in the Americas. Thanks for your help.
A very good question. You could also say why wasn't the law of Moses continued? Why did God see a need to change it? I can only render my opinion here. It is because the Lord can change things as he see's we are ready to receive it. The law of Moses was a lesser, preparatory law given to the people because they were not ready for the higher law. Later, Christ came and changed it at the time he thought was right for us to receive the higher law. On the primitive New Testament church, I believe Christ wanted to establish it to prepare us, give us a foundation as he did with the law of Moses. The world was not completely ready to receive it yet as they killed the Apostles, then distorted his teachings. At a later time, again the Lord brought forth (restored) his church (as was prophesied )as the people were ready to receive it. This time his church will remain until he returns.
Hey Allie! The first thought that comes to my mind has to do with what we call "dispensations." Long story short, the history of the gospel is pretty cyclical in that...
1.) God reveals his gospel through prophets
2.) people accept/reject it
3.) Those who reject quickly fall into "apostasy" while those who accept it prosper for a time (sometimes a long time!), but pride/wickedness eventually infiltrates the ranks and the church falls apart again (so to speak), and an apostasy follows.
And then steps 1-3 repeat.
BUT we believe the "Great Apostasy" that occurred after Christ was killed was the final apostasy before the ushering in of the "dispensation of the fullness of times," aka the final dispensation before the 2nd Coming. So while modern prophets will make all sorts of mistakes, we believe there will not be another general (church-wide) apostasy before, for lack of a better term, time's up. Does that answer your question? I'll gladly provide further sources/resources if you'd like.
Hi KevlarX2 and David Snell! Thanks to both of you! I love that I got responses from two knowledgeable members.
I definitely agree that Moses' law was preparatory for the establishment of Christ's church and, just expanding on that, the entire Old Testament shows how God was preparing the world for the coming of Jesus. And I see the cyclical pattern described by David but my focus tends to be on a different pattern--how God covenanted Himself to an increasing number of people throughout salvation history until he reached everyone. To explain in broad strokes (in case this is unfamiliar?), God starts by making a covenant with Adam and Eve (a married couple) after the Fall. The next covenant is with Noah and his family/household, so He's including more people. Next comes Abraham's tribe, followed by Moses' nation (12 tribes = Israel), and then David's divine kingdom (multiple nations). All Old Testament stuff. Then--the culmination--Jesus comes to establish a new and EVERLASTING covenant to include ALL people, all nations, the entire world. Everything prior led to and pointed to Christ. I think the New Covenant is the last days, or final dispensation. It's the high point of salvation history thus far. A restoration through Joseph Smith doesn't fit this pattern.
Also, I believe the universal availability of the Holy Spirit marks a significant change between OT and NT times. No longer given to just a select few as in the OT, the gift of the Holy Spirit emboldens believers to carry out the mission of the church and guides the church to all truth, as Jesus promised. This is one thing that leads me to believe that a complete apostasy cannot/did not occur, despite human failures.
Anyway, I do think I understand what you're both trying to say, even though it conflicts with my understanding of the story of salvation. Thanks again for the helpful explanations. God bless!
Interesting perspective, Allie! I see where you're coming from.
Dude on the left realized his life is a lie at 8:45.
Lol I sure hope not.
most people understand prophets are not perfect however as an LDS member i will say this is an issue that the church has created. The real question is WHY has the church given the impression and indirectly taught that their modern prophets do not make mistakes? they have backed up on this in the last 10 yrs or so with church essays and such but the church for a very long time definitely gave the impression that their modern prophets cannot make mistakes. The Adam-God theory BY taught is a perfevt example...future prophets have said we don't believe it but this is more hush-hush and something rarely discussed. It will be nice when the church comes forward and is fully honest and admits their prophets have taught things not of God and that they made mistakes (the Adam-God idea was taught from the pulpit in general conference by BY, blacks not having the priesthood, etc). Only when the church comes out and fully confesses will they be able to move forward from these discussions otherwise they will continue to be points of contention.
Great question. I have a theory on this. But first, an analogy: My wife is a teacher. Recently her students (like, half of them) have been turning in their homework late. In response, she set a hard rule that no late work will be accepted, period. Of course, there are still exceptions to that rule (sickness, family tragedy, dog ate my homework, etc.) but if she doesn't set the hard rule, the behavior won't change in her classroom.
I agree that in the past there's been an emphasis on the idea that the prophets will never make the wrong decision -- but I compare this teaching to the hard rule my wife set in her classroom about late homework. "The prophets will never lead you astray" as opposed to, "The prophets will never lead you astray, except x, y, z." People need to follow the prophets, but if the exceptions to the rule are highlighted, people start to take advantage of it. Sort of a "give them an inch, they take a mile" sort of thing.
Now that the fallibility of prophets is more emphasized, honestly I think we can expect to see a lot more disobedience. Whenever we hear something we disagree with we can just pan it off as "not truly inspired." But the truth is that yes, they can get things wrong. I think it's exceptionally rare, by far the exception to the rule, but it is what it is.
So I understand why they've given the impression in the past that prophets are pretty darn near-perfect. And I think that now that the narrative is changing, it becomes even more important for us to learn how to rely on the Spirit to avoid growing lax and straying from the path. Just my personal thoughts. Surely it's a lot more complicated than I made it out to be, but there it is.
That said, to those that think we're just a brainwashed cult, it's all about power-hungry old men. To each his own, I guess.
Isn’t that Convenient??? Things that make you go hmmmmmm.....
Tall should do a video on who we worship exactly. There aton of comments with that question and I know a lot of my friends who aren’t in the church ask me this question. A video would be awesome to reference since I’m terrible with words
This might tide you over for a bit: mormonhub.com/blog/faith/belief/mormons-worship-heavenly-father-christ/
Great question though. (Also the article doesn't get into this, but we do not worship Adam).
Thanks for another great episode!
I know you already talked about this a few episodes ago, and you may have filmed this one before Conference, but given President Nelson's smack-down talk on Sunday about the name of the Church, will you now update the name of this show? Maybe call it "3 Latter-day Saints", or just "3 Saints"? You could even have a subtitle like "Formerly 3 Mormons", or "The Show Formerly Known as 3 Mormons", just to alleviate confusion. I dunno, those are just my thoughts. Keep up the great work!
Guys, The "prophets" weren't perfect yeah thats undeniable, the problem is that they are in direct communication with God....That takes fallacy off the table. Nice try though.
Hinckley and Monson were pleasing the devil and offending Christ, according to Nelson
Jesus Crist is our Savior ❤💙💛💜🧡💚
Jesus himself says his words do not pass away. How then can the prophets of now just change the words of Jesus? Just food for thought.
How do you know that leaders/prophets are called of god in the first place?
The witness of the Holy Ghost. That is his mission to confirm truth. James 1:5, Moroni 10:3-5.
KevlarX2 But what if people get led in different directions? Then who’s right?
They won't be. God is not the author of confusion.
KevlarX2 Thank you for your response. Though it doesn’t take much looking around to see that people are indeed led in many different directions. Mormons don’t have a monopoly on “feeling the spirit.” Anyway, just something to think about. I hope you are having a great day!
I like to call it Mormon radio, those that are in tune with the spirt of God, know things ahead of time! For instance when are new stake PRESIDENT was called my husband knew ahead of time! The same thing happened to my husband he was called to be a counselor in our Bishopric and we both felt the spirit telling us 4 months before it happened! This is personal revelation!
Yes as a Canadian I can absolutely say we are perfect. In fact we will be translated soon. Lol.
Yeah, but you sent Justin Bieber over here to get to that place. ;)
Im struggling with something..
Joseph smith, as the founder of LDS, the man who god chose to restore the word of god. Says hes speaking words from god along with the second prophet of LDS.... This isnt making a mistake in life, this is going against gods word and being a false teacher. If i believe joseph smith is lying(or wrong by accident) about things hes said claiming its revelation from god. Why why why would i believe anything he said, especially things that disagree with jesus. Also, very important.. if joseph smith chosen by god gets something like that wrong, you have to acknowledge that praying and getting revelation lds is true... is faulty. 2 corinthians 11:13-15
Galations 1:7-9
You could rename the channel: 3disciplesofchrist (4 haha) or something like that
I'm just adding to suggestions cause I thought of this the other day
Oh man I enjoyed shaking his hand when I shook it I felt the fire within him the Holy Ghost his pureness is loving kindness as well that never ceases. And this much shorter but water water is like what created the earth I believe is what created the firmament around the earth what created the Oort cloud and thus it is that of God always protecting us even the wicked but the wicked take its Life Is Life must be taken. And so basically the priesthood went on oh I remember now why texting stuff on here I'm suing my meds and I'm like doped up I'm feeling great but basically there is a symbolic he a metaphor a sort of Rich well ritual.
Hi, i love your videos and i kinda know some videos were recorded weeks before they were uploaded. However, i noticed you still use terms as "mormonism" even when the prophet explained why that's not an appropiated word to define our religion.
I don't remember the exact date this episode was filmed, but it was quite a while ago, most likely before President Nelson's initial announcement and definitely before General Conference. As the prophet counseled, please be patient as we phase in the corrections. We are fully aware of the prophet's counsel and are taking steps to respond appropriately. Thanks!
First to say thanks! Plus, anyone who says otherwise needs more Jesus!
We all need more Jesus. :)
And so basically upon the altar of life is either too good or evil can shows that you've built up basically every false Kingdom even up to now there's a line there's a line of the kings and queens and basically an Egypt I can't remember which Romano I think I'm send it right away or Stelah
If you can become baptized after death I don't see why people who aren't members would want to join , why trade no rules or change to there life when they'd still get the chance to be mormon after death ? If the church is true I feel like it's not a bad deal to live as a non mormon regardless, if it's True or not.
Baptism after death is done by proxy by a relative of yours in most cases, who is a member of the church. It is for those who never had the opportunity in this life to learn and accept the gospel. Not for those who did, but refused it. www.lds.org/general-conference/2005/04/now-is-the-time-to-prepare?lang=eng
In regards to Jewish holocaust victims, that was a policy that has been changed, and is no longer being done. I believe there may be an exception for those who have relatives whose names are submitted by a member of our church directly related to them, but not sure. As for stopping all proxy baptisms? no, that has not and will not stop. That is a major function of Temples. Many names like those of holocaust victims, will now have to wait until the millennium to have their work done.
Avi, I see your reasoning. It doesn't change the fact that we're still responsible, will need to repent, and will be judged according to our choices in this life. Faith and repentance always precede baptism. So if one decides to live a "no-rules" lifestyle and plans on just wiping it all away by accepting a proxy baptism in the next life ... I think that person is going to have a rude awakening. That's just not the way it works. Proxy baptism does not excuse people from personal accountability. The dillemma is essentially the same principle as "deathbed repentance." There are no loopholes when it comes to the gospel.
On the other hand, if the Church is true, why wouldn't you want to follow its teachings throughout your life? If it's true ... that's huge.
@@KevlarX2 so what happends to a person who rejected it here but then dies
Those who rejected Christ's teachings willfully, and not out of ignorance, will have to rely on what they have done in this life. Not having the saving ordinances because of willful disobedience, will mean they cannot become joint-heirs with Christ and return to God's presence. Those who did not get a chance to hear the gospel in this life, or refused it out of ignorance or mental capacity, may get a chance to hear the gospel in the spirit world and have a chance to accept it there and receive their ordinances by proxy. Those that reject the truth here after having received it, will receive a degree of glory according to their life, but not the highest glory.
Thank you! I’m not a member yet! But I’m looking into the church! I think when the prophet addresses the church at say conference or something like that he is speaking to the Church and it’s the divine inspiration from God! He is not God and or Jesus, so he is not perfect and still make mistakes, but I think that he is held to a different standby as he should be!
There's nothing at the temple or regarding sacredness of the temple but this is such a powerful time that had in the MTC. And basically it was worth giving a talk I wish I could be the same light for my mission when I came early when I did come home early cuz I mental problems. I was an awesome missionary and I love teaching a love helping people I love making people smile but basically from that on the world was split apart already not in the days of Peleh or the time of ham or Shem and that basically at first there's blood and that blood was allowed through mortality man that she was good or evil everyone has I don't like it called the conscience as Mormons not as the Light of Christ and that light which is wouldn't within our hearts in the bowels of Mercy is absolutely help my fellow man help my fellow sister to honor my mother and my father to honor my priesthood leaders to honor those of Jesus that of Jesus Christ in the atonement to honor the atonement at 1 meant to be that to be one yet will take me time but Adam and Eve were so clean perfect that then Adam wrote a book inspired by God of every person on the earth born and all the everything that's going to happen from the time of him all the way so basically I want to say it's the morning of and so Adam and Eve also passed away I believe but basically they had their posterity and that enough us are you on this Earth to create more posterity I love it though and how sex is not to be made fun of in the LDS church but also it is the loving nature of sex not the lust of it and the perpetuating of doing what is wrong for a long time just doing was wrong and contrast that is different from that is opposite of the Gospel
I’m a devout (at least I think) member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and I was wondering about controversial doctrines such as the Adam-God theory and a few other ones that I want clarified please.
(edit) also, I want to know who we worship exactly. I have read so many different opinions of church members and even leaders! I’ve prayed about it and feel like I’ve gotten the answer (many people have my same experience with that prayer) but I’m still not completely sure.
I'd rather Kwaku or David or Mimi, answer this one. Anyway, I'll put forth my understanding here, and they can correct me if needed. (More likely what David and Kwaku, and Mimi, would need to do is simplify the answer, which I'll try but probably cannot do). ;) My understanding is this: That Adam was present in the creation of this earth with Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ his son. Adam (called Micheal at this time of pre-existence) and Jesus at this time had spirit bodies. Adam's calling after the creation of this earth, was to be the first to gain a physical body and begin (implement) the plan of salvation for others to follow. Adam was the High Priest under Christ on earth. Being the first, he became the Father of all men on earth. The misunderstanding of Adam being "the God" is from a quote by Brigham Young, which basically said: "Adam is our Father, and our God, and the only god with whom we have to do." If understood in it's proper context, it is a proper statement. However enemies of our church who do not understand it in it's proper context like to use the quote as saying we believe Adam is our God. Brigham Young much like the Prophet's Isaiah and the Apostle Paul, say things which are hard to understand without understanding it in spiritual light. Anyway, what is meant is that Adam would become the first to become a joint-heir with Christ. Romans 8:17. D&C 132:19-20. However, no more than in the same manner as Abraham, Issac, Jacob and Moses, Peter, James and John, and a host of others of high and low degree would. What Brigham Young was alluding to was that Adam, was the first of the Patriarchal chain that would bind exalted beings together. Micheal (or Adam) paved the way for all of us to potentially become joint-heirs with Christ after this world. In a sense, a God, and we owe it to Adam being the first to bring to fruition the plan of salvation.
Heavenly Father never released him from his calling. I would say that means he forgave him of whatever shortcomings you deem he had.
@Jonathan
I hope this helps. I agree with what Kevlar has said, but let me add my 2 cents here. I have heard before that "Adam" is a title. I'm not sure what you know and/or believe about the Heavenly Family, so I'll leave it at that.
Something else that I've heard(and I believe is Doctrinal) is that Jehovah(Jesus Christ) is the God of the Old Testament. He only had a Spirit body at this point He wound up also having a Physical body, but He never lost His Spirit body. Therefore, people in the past and today are confused by scriptures that say "God is a Spirit". But we don't "worship" Jesus/Jehovah. We worship our Heavenly Father/Elohim. Something else that I'd like to point out. The original Hebrew term is plural. Something else we need to understand. There are things that are lost in translation. I'd say that also includes things from God to His chosen Prophet. When Jehovah mentioned things like; "There are no other gods before me" and "beside me there is no God", can and probably means the following...
1. We are only to worship 1 God(at this point that is our Heavenly Father and not Jesus like in the Old Testament)
2. This does not exclude the existence of other Gods, BUT as far as we are concerned, there is to be no relationship with them whatsoever. At least in mortality. And our God will always be our God. Even in the Eternities.
3. Again, things get lost in translation. From God to His chosen servants, the veil is pretty thick, things can get lost even after only a few hours, and translations between one human language to another. It gets even worse from there...
Also, @Trey Dyson
So what if Brigham Young was racist? So was most other people in the 19th Century. It was "the way things were" at the time, and honestly still are.
Jonathan -- great question. I did an article a few months ago on who we worship. The problem is that people (including leaders) define "worship" a little differently. Anyway, hope this helps: mormonhub.com/blog/faith/belief/mormons-worship-heavenly-father-christ/
As for Adam-God theory and the other controversial doctrines you have questions about -- please find me on Facebook and shoot me a message and we'll talk. They're great questions! Good ideas for future episodes.
Thank goodness David, you showed up to comment. I felt like the sword fighter in the movie The princess bride during the sword fight. I was about down to saying I know something you don't know. I'm not left handed and switches hands to fight. LOL!
1 A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3 Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5 For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
D&C 84:1-5
Clear false prophecy. The Temple was never built. So what does God say about prophets who make false prophecies.
“And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.”
Deuteronomy 18:21-22 KJV
Joseph lied. Stop following a false prophet because you had a “good feeling” when you prayed about the Book of Mormon. As the great Ben Shapiro once said the facts don’t care about your feelings. :)
Jesus was the lamb of god he took the place of the animal sacrifice and sacrificed himself by being crucified (animal sacrifice were done for the forgiveness of sin). Question outside of pray how often do you talk about Jesus in church?
What was Nephi’s faults?
I'm not sure 100%. But he did break his bow, so...strength? I am not sure, but he isn't perfect.
Check out 2 Nephi 4! :)
He got angry at his bretheren
Nephi is the alter ego of Joseph Smith:)
Why don't you take the advice of the current prophet and change the name of your RUclips channel?
When you really think about it and approach with an honest open mind all religious faith's hide behind the God cover, because take God away from it and you have to admit you're following the directions of men. And that's the stark reality here. Can you imagine the amount of people who would walk away from their church if the leaders was actually honest and admitted they were only using their own initiative on decision making! But of course followers don't want to entertain that thought as it all be a waste of time then.
That’s circular reasoning. You can’t take God out of it if you believe in God
Would it be wrong in the eyes of the church to wish/hope for change within the church? There was a time when black people couldn’t hold the priesthood but eventually that time came where they can. I’m a lesbian and LOVE this church and the gospel but if I joined I would be doing so wanting new revelation to release someday giving LGBT the same rights as straight people in the church. As childish as this may sound, it’s not fair straight people can get married and have children but we can’t develop families of our own.
The classic problem of evil... And you didn't answer the question.
Me: "God, why do you let bad thing happen?"
Jesus: "Why didn't _you_ stop it yourself?"
Me: "You're right. Why did I let cancer happen? Why didn't I eliminate famine and poverty? Why didn't I stop that child from dying in it's mother's womb? Why did I let hurricane Katrina happen? Why didn't anyone stop that volcano from destroying Pompeii?"
Do you see the problem with your answer to the problem of evil? Bad things happening isn't all just about what people do. There are factors beyond our control.
Also, if god gave us agency, then god is unable to see the future. Because if god knows what happens in the future, and there's absolutely no way of changing it, then every action we make is not of free will, but of an already scripted series of events. Omniscience and free will cannot coexist. And before anyone makes the argument of "God is not forcing us to do anything, so we do have free will", I never said that god having omniscience is the same as him controlling our actions. It only means that knowledge of the future makes that future set in stone. And if the future is set in stone, we have no control of changing those events. If our actions are already known, then our actions cannot be of free will. And thus, everything bad that happens is in fact god's fault, because he knew exactly what would happen, and had the knowledge to not let that happen, yet still let it happen.
The answer Spectrum is that God did give everyone their free agency. This life was part of the plan of salvation. We all were together as spirit children of our Heavenly Father before this life began, in what was known as the pre-existence. We saw that our Heavenly Father was perfect, all powerful, all knowing and loving. He also had a physical body, and we wanted to be like him. In order to become like him we had to be tested. A plan called the plan of salvation was created by our elder brother and God's first born son Jesus Christ. In this plan we would come to earth and obtain a physical body. Also we would have a veil placed on our memories so that we had to learn and choose to obey God's commandments on our own. If we keep his commandments and are faithful to the best of our ability, then we can return to live with Heavenly Father again in Celestial glory. If we do not we will receive according to our choices we made. Bad things happen not because it is God's wish or that he turns a blind eye to it. It is because our choices he has to let us make of our own free will. Many things people go through good or bad is from the free choices we are allowed to make. Many circumstances people have are different than others have to face, but we all are tested. This earth is not perfect in it's mortal state, and we all sin and fall short of the glory of God. This is why in the plan of salvation, Christ was sent to be our Savior, and our advocate with the Father. Christ overcame sin and death for us. This allows us to repent of our mistakes and if we strive to obey his commandments we can be forgiven and return to live with our Heavenly Father again. Also the bonds we make on earth as families can continue. We can be with our families if we are faithful, forever.
@Spectrum, agency is both simple and complex.
Agency (simple)- You have every right, every ability to choose between good and evil. Does not mean that you are free from consequences of your actions. Either in mortality or in the Eternities.
Agency (complex): God is perfect and all-knowing. You have your agency, but so does everyone else. You and no one else in mortality is perfect or all-knowing. With Satan's plan, he would have forced you, me, and everyone to return to our Heavenly Father, thus destroying agency. Which is why it was not accepted or acceptable. Agency is an Eternal principle. God's ways are not humankind's ways.
I agree with the first half of your comment. The blame for many things can't be pinned on people. That said, I don't think we have to jump to the other extreme and pin it all on God either. Sometimes, crap happens, imo.
As for the second part, I disagree with the idea that omniscience and free will cannot co-exist. I strongly disagree with the idea that just because our actions are known we cannot exercise free will. I'm not going to speculate much more on the topic, but it's a fun philosophical question to ponder though.
Given the words of the prophet in conference....are you going to change the name of your channel?
Yes.
@@davidsnell2605 Awesome! Look forward to tha vids! :-)
Of course imperfections on their character are expected. However, prophetic messages CANNOT be a mistake. If anyone says they prophesy in the name of the Lord and it does not come true their authenticity as a prophet is not confirmed (Deut. 18:15-22). Also even if a prophecy is fulfilled but the "prophet" suggest the worship of another god they are not a messenger from the Lord (Deut. 13:1-5). Joseph F. Smith new the importance of prophetic validity when he stated that the entire LDS faith is confirmed only if Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. Considering the first test, Joseph Smith fails: False prophecy of Christ's return by 1891 (History of the Church, vol. 2, p. 189), or the prophecy that the United States Government would be overthrown in a few years unless a redress was made against the Mormon community in Missouri (History of the Church, vol. 5, p.394). No redress was made and yet the US government still stands. These and other failed prophecies confirm, from a Biblical standard, that Joseph Smith does not meet the criteria of a prophet of God. Therefore, according to J.F.S., as well as the Bible, the LDS church is not true. I would challenge you all to read the Bible and weigh it against the BoM. You deserve to know the truth of the Gospel of Christ. Love you guys.
In Him,
Jeremy
What were the little flawes Joseph Smith made? Forcing Young women in his bed? Thats not a flaw, thats a crime!
Where is that quote from at 8:02?
I did a quick search and found references but didn't take the time to root out the source, so feel free to work backwards from this article if you'd like: leadinglds.org/human-nature-may-express-itself-on-occasion-flawed-leadership-decisions/
It's apparently from Boyd K. Packer.
The problem here is that apparently the true prophet has to be the living prophet. Once prophets die, i guess all of those "revelations" from God are open to amendment and interpretation as the church may consider the "revelations" out of touch, not relevant, or no longer necessary. Seems to me the church is evolving over time, to keep with the times. Now why wouldn't an all knowing, all present, all powerful God get this stuff right the first time and "reveal" the universal and infinite truths to whomever the prophet is??? Hmmm, makes you wonder....is this a man-made church or the true church of God?? See CES letter for further light and knowledge.
Laughing here because I am eating doritos while watching this!
I loved this the Russel M nelson for me there is no way he Is not the prophet I loved His talk where he talked about misspeaking I love that it makes me believe more I have many many faults myself lol so I try to not judge but I do cause I am not perfect but I try to stop myself and See people
How come you are still called 3 Mormons?
Refrain how you said your sovereignty for that other Jew or the 12 tribes of Israel not a 13th tribe never confuse with that what you said about 5:58 549 and we had to clean up clean off our garments are literal garments that we are and so basically as well we're here in this life that is hard God went through it as well so he knows how things are
If the prophet can be wrong about things and they have agency to make mistakes, what makes them any different from a genuine evangelical pastor who is trying his best to follow the Holy Spirit? It seems like you've made Prophets into normal people who are just higher up in the hierarchy but have no added authority to speak for God in a 'special' or 'infallible' way. Am I missing something?
Jesus Christ was the only perfect being. Even the 12 apostles made mistakes, Peter denied the Christ 3 times
If you are under the belief that God does not speak personally to man any more; then you can only form your belief structure off of the words written down from dead men in ages gone past. Using your own knowledge to define God is no different than creating a golden calf to worship. Revelation is best described as God speaking to man - God personally reveals Himself. Inspiration is more of an AHA moment, where things start to make sense, so that you can apply your knowledge to fit a given situation. Revelation is infallible; inspiration is alterable to the needs of the people. Inspiration that is based on faulty assumptions gets us into "doctrinal differences" - but faulty assumptions are not Revelation. When my daughter was much younger, she was asking me what she was like at even younger ages ... daddy? what was i like when i was 3 year old? Well, I couldnt remember a specific instance of what she did when she was 3 years old, so I told her that I didnt think she was ever 3 years old - pretty sure she skipped that age. In her mind, I was speaking a gospel truth and went and told her friends at school that she was never 3 years old .... because my daddy doesnt lie. Her teacher tried to explain to her that I was not lying, but that her understanding was not the intended result. Next time I got to see her, she was not to happy with me :) Goes God joke around with us? I dont know. But thats not the point. When we base our belief structure on a faulty assumption, there is room for correcting it. Mormons (or anyone for that matter) should not think that every word that comes out of an authority figures mouth is just God being a ventriloquist.
A "genuine evangelical pastor who is trying his best to follow the Holy Spirit" has his heart in the right place. They lack certain criteria for being able to speak on God's behalf; and are relying upon another persons belief structure to inform their own.
@@anthonym2499 Hi Anthony! I appreciate your response and I think I understand what you are saying: we shouldn't confuse revelation and inspiration. I think the point I was trying to make was beautifully summarized by Doug Funnie in his comment 3 years ago: "How are you supposed to discern between inspired messages from God and a flawed human speaking their own flawed, human thoughts?" This is the issue I was trying to highlight.
@@stephencramm1354 Mormonism is really simple - if you lack wisdom, ask God and He will answer you. Mormonism, individually, is all about getting up close and personal with God so that you can have a testimony that is not reliant upon anyone or anything else. Or, I suppose we can just do like Isaiah did and walk around naked and barefoot for 3 years (Isaiah 20:2,3). At least Ezekiel didnt have to be naked; he just had to lie there over a year on his left side, and over a month on his right side (Ezekiel 4:4-6). How do we know that these actions were from God and not from the minds of some demented old folks? The Bible says so right?
The point being, you mentioned the pastor trying his best to follow the Holy Spirit; that is what we should all strive to do. If God answers that we should become buddhist monks and only talk in pig latin ... ellway iay essguay atthay eway ouldshay oday itay ikelay odGay ayssay eway oday itay. Trust God - and let everything else go its own way. If God says he wants you to be a Mormon - then be the best damn Mormon you can be. If God wants you to be a blasphemous toad .... then be the best damned blasphemous toad you can be. If God tells you that He wants you to only eat moonpies and drink RC colas .... then may God have mercy on us all :)
If you are doing your best to follow the Holy Spirit; then what do you think it is that you should do? -- Joshua 24:15.
@@stephencramm1354 Oh by the way, thanks for the reply :) I know after 3 years it can be hard to get your thoughts back onto what was originally intended. I know after 3 months I have to go back and re-read some of the things that get responded to ... and as you can prolly tell, I can say some pretty odd things :)
unfortunately 3 Mormons miss the mark on this. Sure, Jonah didn't go to Nineveh, but he never misrepresented God. The bible is clear, if a prophet every misrepresents God or says God said something when he never did then he is never a prophet. Yes, a prophet makes mistakes, but a prophet will never misrepresent God which LDS prophets do time and time again as they say God wants it one way or another and then another prophet says its different or never true.
The only reason of a prophet is to give you a revelation of God , God will never send a wrong message that's why when we see a " prophet" sending a wrong message we know he is not from God and God will be an stupid God to send a prophet with a wrong message . Doesnt God knows ahead of time what the prophet is gonna say to his people ? Doesn't God know to tell the prophet say this and not to say that ? But false prophets like Joseph Smith have a lot of false visions and false prophecies is amazing . How can he be aprophet of God?
I still don't know whether the push for the use of the term "Latter-Day Saint" was revealed by the Lord or not. I believe in President Nelson. I'm following the push to where it may go. But I can't say I'm not hesitant in so many ways to just dive in.
I'd compare it to a cold pool. I hope it will be good (and energizing!) for me to get it over with and get to the fun part, but the water is so chilly! My body isn't used to this!
I mean, I tend to take reallllllllly hot baths. Which is not the best for my skin. But it's what I'm used to.
Good analogy. But it is to separate us from the crowd. To show that we are different. To say that our church is made and lead by Christ.
Well it was talked about in this past General Conference. The Lord said that the church is to be called after His name. It is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If it were the church of Mormon, then having it called the "Mormon" church would be appropriate, but it isn't Mormon's church, is it? I would like you to watch President Nelson's talk about that. It should give you some of the answers you seek.
@Julie Ann: The church requires leaps or stretches of faith. But without them, I couldn't come to appreciate the cold...like I've failed to do in my bathing habits.
But to say it is not demanding is to sell it short. It's not easy being a Latter-Day Saint.
@Peter Eden, Jr. True, this is Christ's Church, but consider how we identify as a people. We would not hesitate to use the term "American" to refer to someone who lives in America or identifies with American sentiment. The term "Mormon" has been used in a similar manner up to this point (although it is used more cynically by our critics). Using that term hasn't been an effort to distance ourselves from Christ, but to bring ourselves closer to Him...by taking on the name (like "Nephite" or "Lamanite") of someone we honor, that lived a life like His.
I'm not saying we shouldn't stop the use of it. But I honor the use of it that has come before.
@@ResidentKlinton All I can say is that I plan to follow what the Prophet says. I hope that you plan to follow what he says because if we do so with faith, God will bless us abundantly. It may not make complete sense right now, but there is a reason that God has said to do so. What exactly that is, I don't know, but I trust what God's prophet has said.
Of course Prophets can make mistakes, because they are not God or Jesus. Prophets are imperfect people like you and I, and they are just called to preach the word of God and God’s commandments. No one on this earth is perfect or free of imperfections...not a Prophet, Priest, Pastor, Bishop, Missionary, Apostle, etc...!
But basically is in Genesis 9 or 10 maybe 15 and God said that this is good what I have created is good I don't know how the address here then got here but we know that basically all of us were Gods before we came here in spirit form we help create the Earth from Under The Virtuous guidance of the loving words of Our Savior Jesus Christ Our meshiac messiah. Then Lucifer enters the picture he's giving the key by Jehovah by that of the father but the father tells him depart depart from me that works with iniquity and wickedness and basically of the blood and other bad stuff that happens was set upon before the pre-existence before we even came here that the last step the very last step that was then when Adam said no more was that then Lucifer who was a son of the morning to be the morning star or share the meaning of morning with his older brother or if Jehovah is younger brother but Jehovah acts spiritually exalted Lee mature more than Lucifer forgot how to work for that of his testimony rather say just tell me now give it to me now that's all I want he forgot how to go up the steps up and down in the crate way of that a blessing blessing people and ask he rather did not go up the steps accordingly through righteousness that has mine in his heart he thought of War instead and thus as war and said happened and of that of every way of every Commandment that we have here on the earth I believe we're the same and the pre-existence and that there's all the things in the pre-existence that's here on Earth but this Earth is in that telestial and so basically this would wear Kane can go through Master Mahan to lie cheat and steal and that is there's three things that the adversary does because it all and mocking God the Father God the son and both of the father and the son the Holy Ghost and so God I was work so good news messages and that is the spirit the Holy Ghost the anointed light to shut fourth it's light over the shadows and Shadow is that of those Christ will come and of that of the blood of this generation of Christ time of the blood of generation when everything was in such evilness decaying Ness and also that of every last Sevilla sanus and every Wicked deed I'm so that basically God's Plan of Salvation is in effect as a man will choose evil rather than light and he can then access the atonement if I'm o then every nation and learns and grows and lives peacefully among but the adversary poster up Men's hearts and so that then is when darkness enters but yet there's always a way of light Darkness cannot ever overcome light because you had a lot of Christ in you as long as there's certain sims we have committed sit in section 131 and 136 on that of marriage bringing in a child. Even that of murder. I've even murder for gain. By mahalel. and so basically with those two sims of the generation of this world end of generations is what always brought man's character of life down to the I'm so basically for the power of the atonement of being baptized washed and cleansed of sins becoming a new creature by the laying on of hands to that of hands are a symbol of the power of God is kindness is loving mercy receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost which is a gift. beautiful solid Celestial Kingdom.
right now if of all of us will possibly jump and go for it
When are you changing your name to "3 Latter-Day Saints"?
Patience is a virtuuuuue.
Patience is a virtue except for people who are still bummed Hillary lost to Trump. LOL!
Curious... Are you going to change your channel name? Maybe, 3 Latter Day Saints?
How about "3 members of the Restored church of Jesus Christ". I think this was one of the preferred options.
Yes we're working on it! :)
God puts his words into the prophets mouth and nothing he prophecies is of their own accord (2 Pet 1:20-21). If a prophet even makes 1 false prophecy, he is a false prophet (Deut 18:18-22). Even if what he does say comes to pass but it doesn't align to what God has already said, he is a false prophet (Deut 13:1-4) We MUST use these with any and all prophets of God. God makes no mistakes when choosing his prophets, hence the prophets say no mistakes. With that being said; Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, and Wilford Woodruff taught on Adam being Michael the Archangel and GOD. This is well recorded in Journal of Discourses and Wilford Woodruff journals. If you deny these, it can only mean these men are false prophets. Exceptions are not made. If you want the resources I'll be happy to give them to you.
@@rconger24 What about them?
All you have to remember is this concerning a prophecy: if a prophet says "Thus sayeth the Lord", and it is fulfilled he is a Prophet. If he say's "Thus sayeth the Lord" and it is not fulfilled, He is not. However, it must be remembered that fulfillment is always in the Lord's due time, not ours, so we cannot prescribe a time limit on it. Like at the end of the old testament where it talks about turning the hearts of the children to their Fathers, and the hearts of the Fathers to their children. (Temple work, Genealogy) is still being fulfilled.
@@KevlarX2 So in due time, Adam is going to be transformered into our God?
Not our God, but a God as he will be a joint heir with Christ, like all of us could potentially.
@@KevlarX2 From Journal of Discourses v1 pg 50 "He is our Father and our God, and the only God whom we have to do with" Talking about Adam. There is no misunderstanding what he was talking about. He was declaring Adam to be OUR ONLY GOD. I encourage you to look into it.
What if there's a secret fourth invisible Mormon?
O_O
There is a fourth one but he's not invisible, and he appears frequently. His name is Justin ;) Unless you count "fishy."
I guess your supposed to change your username from “3 Mormons” to “3 COJCOLDS’s”
LOL I’m sorry I had to XD (p.s. I’m a member of the COJCOLDS, too)
Brianna Carter Haha hey, that's an option! Certainly a mouthful tho 😂
3 Mormons haha ikr?
Also I see a woman on this show after GenCon bewteen that and the name you're not very good at following the profit
Yeah, I understand that they are humans. That’s where Mormons get it confused. Because Joseph Smith taught that the prophets were perfect and held a perfect example to become gods. This is the main reason why I don’t believe in prophets today. I also understand that they can make little mistakes that don’t hold great value, but, at the same time, Brigham Young saying that black skinned people are cursed and will only have one purpose of being slaves for eternity, if that’s a little mistake, than think about the things President Nelson is telling you right now, that will be a “little mistake” in 80 years.
Hmmm, I've never heard that teaching from Joseph Smith. If you'd verify that claim with a source that'd be great, thanks.
Eating Doritos is a sin ? Haha
Only spicy sweet chili flavored ;)
I'm a cool ranch kind of guy so I'm not in the clear.
Nachos for me.
😁
😂😂😂 what Canada is perfect, it’s not I assure you. Although I do think it’s better than America, except the 1st amendment we don’t have that.
I can't focus on what you all are saying because I'm so sad and worried about that poor goldfish being slowly tortured to death in that tiny bowl. Get it a big tank with a filter! Goldfish should not be kept in bowls, if you need a fish in a bowl get a betta.
Haha I'm dying, there are so many comments about this. They put the fish in the bowl only for the filming, they actually have a large tank for him
I can't hold back anymore. Tell that girl not to wear so much makeup. It's AWLFUL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dude...I dont know if you know but she doesnt wear makeup all the time. Sometimes girls just enjoy wearing makeup. It can be an art for them. She has posted selfies of herself without makeup. Dude chill
I think Mimi looks beautiful, and certainly her husband does.
Two girls sharing the female point of view of caking that crap on. Understand that I'm not telling not to wear makeup. I'm saying, don't put so much of it on. In addition, I wonder if she does because so much of her confidence is wrapped up in her beauty.If either of you are single, please don't put so much on. In addition, learn to do it with colors that blend well. Think of a photo that is obviously Photoshopped and one that is gorgeous and natural looking but is impossible unless it was Photoshopped but looks real. That is the difference between a girl with makeup poorly applied and too much and a girl that is just gorgeous because of her makeup. She is naturally beautiful and her makeup destroys most of that natural beauty. Her husband might not admit it and say it openly because he doesn't want her to feel bad but he would admit if no girls are around. As guys we can be more open with each other about these problems.
@@petersrule Go soak your head, Jeremy. Mimi is lovely. And the show is not about how these young brothers and sisters look but what they think, and I believe they do a great job.
One girl. I'm a guy Jeremy. I think Mimi looks fine. Why are you so concerned? One, you are not her Dad or Bishop. Two, you are not her husband. Three you have already made your point. You don't like it. We get it.
You guys still call your channel 3 Mormons. Satan wins
He often does. It's kind of the worst.
Please give your goldfish more room.