The Key to Understanding Prophetic Infallibility...

Поделиться
HTML-код
  • Опубликовано: 28 окт 2024

Комментарии • 36

  • @dagbertwilliams1681
    @dagbertwilliams1681 3 года назад +24

    I am loving this conversation. I am a convert to LDS from the Latin Rite Catholic church. The Roman church has backed itself into a terrible corner on the issue of infallibility. The only times the church can claim infallibility is when the Pope is speaking ex cathedra (authoritatively from the chair of St. Peter) or if the magisterium (The apostolic teaching wing) and the consensus of the church fathers align. The problem is that the church fathers have a lot of consensus based on faulty scientific knowledge. This is how the geocentric universe became dogma, as did the crusades. The Pope has not spoken ex cathedra on the current cosmic model or even heliocentrism... there is still a wing of the Catholic church that holds on to geocentrism. Let's not begin to discuss the crusades apologetics. You have to either ignore or handwave these issues, or the entire concept of infallibility falls apart. Once you kick out the leg from that stool, the edifice crumbles. The Roman church can't back down from its definition of infallibility, so it has to retcon history to dodge the problem.
    The LDS church can and must hold onto the principle of moral agency even more than the doctrine of the keys. Because the keys can be taken away. At any time. But moral agency persists because that is the state of volitional consciousness and must be addressed for a path towards happiness. The prophets can be wrong, have been wrong, and will continue to be wrong. This doesn't make the church any less true. The only absolutes are our agency, the love of our heavenly parents, and the atonement of Jesus Christ.

  • @Captainkirk5553
    @Captainkirk5553 3 года назад +9

    You guys are awesome! Keep them coming!

    • @myeyepie
      @myeyepie 3 года назад +2

      Fyi taking these bozos opinions over the actual words off the prophets is the height of personal fallibility

    • @tjkasgl
      @tjkasgl 3 года назад +2

      @@myeyepie they are saying the same thing we've heard our entire lives from the prophets themselves, especially recently. We were recently commanded to stop waiting for revelation and direction from the prophet and develop the ability to receive and follow personal revelation. Yet look how many begged the church to give official direction for wearing mask and getting the vaccine. Look how many got the vaccine after the prophets was made a media spotlight.
      When we start to idolize and assign perfection on leaders we are setting ourselves up for failure when their human side is seen. Being an apostle and prophet does not mean everything said and done is directed by God.

  • @99_1_voices
    @99_1_voices 3 года назад +2

    I really appreciated this podcast! Thank you very much for this message! This is something that I think everyone needs to understand.

  • @Sayheybrother8
    @Sayheybrother8 3 года назад +7

    As a lifelong member it was very alarming to learn that the brethren weren’t talking to God directly. Also, to learn that a prophet can lead the members astray was quite alarming. e.g. Brigham Young’s Adam-God doctrines.

    • @Ether-pb5gb
      @Ether-pb5gb 3 года назад +1

      Yeah, learning about King David and Solomon is also pretty disturbing as well.

    • @myeyepie
      @myeyepie 3 года назад +3

      They can’t and don’t lead you astray. Random youtubers can and do lead you astray all day long

  • @garyamero7892
    @garyamero7892 3 года назад +1

    Really good, honest discussion with (as K said normal 😂😳😂 people). Once again it just shows that GOD knows more than us, we just have to learn patience and obedience (meaning His will IS our will - no compulsion) and to doubt our doubts not our faith ... hang in there until the awareness/understanding/whatever is needed comes. Only one thing is certain ... it’s going to get worse before it gets better ... look 👀 at the world! Thx guys for great thought provoking discussions!

  • @danielstark8356
    @danielstark8356 3 года назад +4

    Where can I find your podcasts? I've looked on both apple podcasts and spotify for "Midnight Mormons" but I couldn't find anything.

  • @Mendozam4
    @Mendozam4 3 года назад

    Would you be able to link your other podcasts in the midnight Mormons homepage or in the description box of your videos? Stuff like the Mormon think tank that you mentioned. I think you also mentioned having a political pod cast or something.

  • @TheLisafoxblin
    @TheLisafoxblin 3 года назад +3

    So many good thoughts! Gonna steal some for my blog 🙃

    • @myeyepie
      @myeyepie 3 года назад +1

      There wasn’t much thinking here at all. Lots of justifications sure. But not thinking.

    • @WARDRADIO
      @WARDRADIO  3 года назад

      What’s your blog?

    • @TheLisafoxblin
      @TheLisafoxblin 3 года назад

      @@WARDRADIO , it's called "Какой-то Апостол сказал", which means "Some Apostle said" from Russian. @some.apostle.said on instagram. It's pro-Church, so don't worry about that 😁 I liked your thoughts about doctrine that changes. It makes perfect sense.

  • @Amytheproject
    @Amytheproject 3 года назад +1

    That’s what I’ve always been confused about is that if you do have a grievance you really aren’t encouraged to air it

  • @dbsherwood
    @dbsherwood 3 года назад +5

    If prophets can be falsely prophetic about one thing, how can we trust them to be truly prophetic about anything?
    Also, if prophets are capable of being falsely prophetic about anything, what makes them unique?

    • @myeyepie
      @myeyepie 3 года назад +1

      Exactly. Also why these guys are full of it.

  • @SUBMISSION20
    @SUBMISSION20 3 года назад +2

    So much loud laughter! Infallibility is obvious. Tell us what prophecy is.

  • @kolbybrown7722
    @kolbybrown7722 3 года назад +4

    What keeps someone from just cherry picking what commandments are from God and what is from man? Our own personal biases would interpret some things as man and some things as God. If Brigham Young can get Adam God doctrine wrong and priesthood wrong, what else can they get wrong? homosexuality? Transgenderism? Abortion? Plural marriage? This gives people permission to say what's doctrine and what's not doctrine from the brethren.

  • @ivaxnog6157
    @ivaxnog6157 3 года назад

    " School of the Prophets, the peace corps " at PalabrasD1Mormon from blogger

  • @myeyepie
    @myeyepie 3 года назад +3

    It should go without saying that due to the rampant fallibility of the hosts absolutely everything they said and opined about could be total bull crap. Yes we all get that. But we should more than get it. We should realize it’s more likely than the prophets acting in their role as prophets to lead us astray. Bloggers and vloggers will lead you astray all day long and entertain you while doing so.

  • @benjaminwinfield475
    @benjaminwinfield475 3 года назад +4

    He didn’t try to teach Adam-God in the temple. He did.

    • @chrishumphries7489
      @chrishumphries7489 3 года назад +1

      And it was never agreed upon by the council of the twelve, or ever presented to the body of the church as doctrine. Brigham himself actually backed off greatly when he got such harsh pushback from the church and church leadership. It was never instituted as anything, but remains a sole theological flaw of Brigham Young (likely a misinterpretation of something he thought he had heard).

    • @DavidNellTheHarbinger
      @DavidNellTheHarbinger 3 года назад

      No, he tried to make it a permanent fixture in the temple..........not did;)

  • @HoratioIsHere
    @HoratioIsHere 3 года назад +3

    Oh my this is just quite simply intellectual dross.

  • @bradleyjoseph6678
    @bradleyjoseph6678 3 года назад +1

    I’m so glad you made this video. I’m an ex morman
    Prophets can be fallible. Noah was a drunk after the ark. Jonah ran away.
    But, when it comes to SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF GOD, you need to get it correct because God is perfect.
    There’s a difference between Moses not being the best speaker and Joseph Smith saying “God gave me the power to translate anything” (abridged version) and failing to translate the Egyptian Papri( It was the Book of the Dead, but he thought it was something about Abraham)
    As a born again Christian, I pray that you seek the true Christ. Jesus warned about false prophets. Jesus is the only way. Glory to Yahweh ✝️💯💯

  • @kolbybrown7722
    @kolbybrown7722 3 года назад

    Also, he sounds like needle nose Ned! 😆

  • @Amytheproject
    @Amytheproject 3 года назад

    Dang

  • @KnuttyEntertainment
    @KnuttyEntertainment 3 года назад +1

    First.

  • @myeyepie
    @myeyepie 3 года назад +4

    Wow this entire show was such a train wreck. Forgive them Father for they know not what they do. Why is it that saints don’t ever consider the possibility that things get reversed or withdrawn, not because they wrong, but because the saints themselves are becoming too wicked too bear them? Or in other words things are withdrawn because they are TOO right and now fall outside the “portion of the word” the Lord gives for them to have. Why don’t folks realize that things Brigham taught on adam can fall within that. Over and over again the critics say Brigham was wrong, although they dont fully understand what he actually meant? That really should tell you a ton about that position. The fact that the prophets won’t really go into detail about it, explain it, or ever tell you “Brigham was wrong” on the record, should be screaming “this is a pattern” to you. But no. Instead we resolve our questions by concluding that we were right and the prophets were wrong. Smh
    The book of Mormon tells you straight up that if you disobey or rebel against the Lord and his servants that the evil one is given power to come in and take away truth and light.
    Every single dispensation ends in apostasy for a very good reason. Agency. And the natural tendency of man is to reject truths not to accept them. Sad but true. Only difference today is that the Lord will return just before this process is complete.

  • @Amytheproject
    @Amytheproject 3 года назад

    Like the guy in the hat talks about adding another priest hood ban and praying about it but we already have bans that shouldn’t be kept .
    Exactly “ it’s so Convenient when you’re not the gay member “