After decades of speaking truth to power without fear or favour, we of course trust Ian more than almost anyone else in the media and politics. He is a rare thing these days, a man of honour.
@@SimonFrack Guilty of? There's no suggestion he committed a crime. It's a fact however that he took money on multiple occasions for appearing with sex criminals. What WOULD Private Eye say about that?
Not the first time at all. I was a manager in a company with ~80 senior managers and by the time I left ~75 of them had been sacked and replaced. The higher you rise, the more vulnerable you are, including your vulnerability to the mistakes made by your predecessors to which there is no magic wand. To be clear, I think that the calls for prison sentences for managers here are correct, I am just pointing out that being a manager is, probably, a far more precarious position than other positions.
Every post office head office and Fujitsu employee at the time should be interviewed under caution and told that charges are likely. But a million pounds per sub post master is a good starting point
More power to his elbow. A fair bit of deserved contempt on show. Not often I hear someone pick apart the language used by politicians, very refreshing. To say "you claim to like" rather than just "you like" suggests disingenuousness. Sophistry rather than honest debate. Small detail but I'm glad he nailed him for it. A rampant angry Hislop is a sight to behold!
Yet again on point and said with passion, insight and wisdom. Wouldn’t it be great if politicians could learn to be as honest as Ian about yet another FU. All governments across the UK , past and present, make mistakes. It’s the weasel mouthed lying and coverups that leaves us angry and despairing.
The thing I noticed was that the three other people in the room just thought they were on "Have I Got News For You" because they are so used to seeing him sending himself up amicably on that. What a great guy he is, our national treasure.
As a Private Eye subscriber for 38 years I expect nothing less from Ian. And that it was "Sir" Jake on the receiving end was particularly gratifying, a man holding one of the least deserved Knighthoods in a party crammed full of them, awarded simply for being a chum of Boris Johnson.
@raymondo6665 You've missed out this bit, "A spokesperson for Sir Tony said: "As the documents show, and make completely clear, Mr Blair took the issue very seriously. His response to the Mulgan note, and in other interactions, was to raise the issue of the viability and reliability of the end project as this was his overarching concern. He subsequently received these reassurances. It is now clear that the Horizon product was seriously flawed, leading to tragic and completely unacceptable consequences, and he has deep sympathy with all those affected."
@@Number9s No, nothing missed out. You've been duped though. So many simpletons, no wonder Antony Blair has such contempt for simpletons like you: it's always been too easy.
Give back the bonuses? No no no. We re talking fraud, extorsion, conspiration, stealing, and false accusation with imprisonment. Massive fines. AND massive compensatory damages. AND jail time.
Not “at last” - he has been doing it for decades! Just as the rich and powerful- banks, corporations, insurance companies etc etc have been lying cheating and stealing from the powerless for centuries
Actually thanks to Ian these were not ¨little known details¨. Those of us following the story knew them for years, thanks to him and others. The drama contained NOTHING new. It did serve to prevent those in power from ignoring the story! Politicians care little for the problems of ordinary people until they become their problems.
I agree with you. I can remember wondering why no one could see that a sudden surge in criminality coincided with a new computer system and did not consider the computer system, especially as the people being accused were spread throughout the UK and did not even know each other but were committing the same unique crime. I do not want their bonuses taken back. I want them to do hard time, and not any of that open prison crap.
@@konradyearwood5845 While clearly there were multiple points when this scandal could have been prevented the apparent rise in crime isn't that bizarre. This wasn't replacing an old computer program it was replacing actual dead tree paperwork. Since there were reports of huge issues during the trial period I'm not overly convinced by trust in Horizon, but if you weren't paying much attention to the details you might think switching from paper to computer was catching people who were previously getting away with fraud. This was also during an era where people were making less to do the same job and being made responsible for any losses. If you listen to interviews with sub-postmasters or postmistresses who were caught up in this very few thought it was Horizon's fault at the time. Partially because they were being told by tech support they were the only ones having issues if they did ask for help but afterwards it could take years for them to find out what had happened. Many have said they could never explain the situation to loved ones who were sure there was something going on. Which includes some people who were convinced that their staff were stealing from the till which is exactly what the Post Office did but on the smaller scale. Assuming staff they had known for years had suddenly started stealing without any evidence apart from Horizon and investigating them rather than assume it was Horizon. This was also possibly the first time they ever used a computer or used a computer in a business setting. The training was laughable and the tech support aggressive in places. The idea that the system was working but the users were screwing up wasn't impossible. You get people saying they were in tears trying to get the numbers to balance, which they wouldn't if they'd twigged to Horizon being at fault. Others just accepted that some months you were up and some weeks you were down so just keep the excess to repay the losses. Again not figuring out Horizon was doing anything wrong. They also were also on the hook for theft or fraud by customers. Which did happened and could happen specifically because a customer figured out how to exploit Horizon incidentally. But the Post Office didn't care who was individually responsible just that since it was a double entry system (it wasn't) the money was somewhere and unless you could personally prove someone else's criminality and then get the money and resolve the situation you're on the hook. There was one union guy who kept looking into cases (which wasn't normal at this point because the union position was Horizon works because if it doesn't that's the end of the Post Office allegedly) and kept finding hardware issues that were unique to individual branches. That was a happy resolution in people's minds, this is a unique one off. But that reinforces the idea that the software is working because he only found hardware failures. Not his fault and the software bugs were being found but without those bugs you think the system is working. If they were innocent the union would exonerate them they must be guilty. The most interesting change in Post Office culture at the time to me is the suspense account. There's also testimony that's pretty amazing about it. Before if you had a dispute over something in the bookkeeping you could push the problem into the general suspense account and say "this isn't balancing and I don't know why" and the Post Office in theory would look into it. And in practice that could take years. The Post Office was trying to pinch pennies so they noticed this giant account and made the decision to change how disputes were handled. Instead of waiting for the Post Office to resolve the situation you had a time limit to solve the problem then you could click on "settle centrally and dispute" which meant you were agreeing to repay the missing funds. Something you might find out after agreeing. That change in part was one woman at the Post Office who was convinced and possibly is still convinced that the suspense account was being used to hide fraud. Genuinely after the scandal had broken, the flaws in the system exposed and cases overturned, still thinks there were plenty of justified prosecutions. That people were caught because they couldn't use the suspense account anymore. She didn't seem to think there was any reason, and again during the inquiry and on the record, that anyone used the suspense account for anything other than fraud. There's this gap between the type of people working in post offices and the Post Office itself. The Post Office saw itself as trying to uncover fraud and claw back monies. That was how to get ahead in the Post Office, bringing in extra money. So it was set up as adversarial. So if you were sent out to audit a branch after they called to say funds were missing your job was to recover those funds. Not find where the money was or if money was missing, you're job is prove your benefit by setting up a case that gets the Post Office paid. Again people knew Horizon was flawed right from the start. The Post Office put a tech incompetent in charge of reporting back about the trial who also still thinks he didn't do anything wrong by saying Horizon was robust. Sure people were saying they couldn't get it to work and there were warnings about a possible tragedy but how was he to know the system wasn't fit for purpose? Lots of people had enough information to figure this out years ago but plenty of people were focused on their little corner of the bureaucracy. The corporate culture in both the Post Office, Fujitsu and more annoyingly to be at least inside the Union was about self protection not about getting things right. So someone looking into a possible criminal case might think "there's an increase in these lately" but without any extra information just assume more fraud was being caught or Horizon was doing a great job or the Post Office was getting more worried about being profitable because of fears of privatization. Also being handed a signed document saying Horizon was working was definitely going to be misleading but jumping to this is systemic wasn't as obvious then as it is now. So stay infuriated but individuals not figuring out the rise in cases was all to do with Horizon screwing up wasn't as obvious as it seems now.
What I didn't know, and which someone pointed out on another video, is that Simon Blagden, non-executive Chair of Fujitsu up to 2019, is also a major Tory donor, and now has a role within Government appointing IT and systems contracts to companies like Fujitsu. That may explain why the Govt has been so reluctant to put pressure on Fujitsu, and why they continue to use them for other contracts.
Maybe you didn't know this. The ex CEO and Chairman of Fujitsu UK is a guy called Michael Keegan. His wife just happens to be Conservative MP and Education Secretary Gillian Keegan.
@raymondo6665 I think 'should have known' is more accurate when applied to all these folks. What I still don't understand is not where, and in whose accounts, these 'missing mlllions' are, but whether they ever actually existed at all, or were just numbers this crazy system just threw out randomly? Any housewife could tell them that machines go wrong when you least expect it.
@@helveticaification "Sir Tony Blair was warned the IT system at the centre of the Post Office scandal was “flawed” before it was rolled out, a document shows. The warning appears in a memo written to the former prime minister by special adviser Geoff Mulgan in 1998, which has been released by the public inquiry into the scandal. It said the problems which beset the Horizon system “may well continue” and that signing it off could leave “what many see as a flawed system” in place for more than a decade. Mulgan said cancellation would allow the Post Office to take advantage of “newer, cheaper and more flexible” technology instead. Pushing ahead would be “unsatisfactory” and leave the government “dependent on a hugely expensive, inflexible, inappropriate and possibly unreliable system”, the adviser warned." ........ "In response, the former prime minister said: “I would favour Option 1 (pressing ahead with Horizon) but for Geoff’s statement that the system itself is flawed. “Surely there must be a clear view on this. Speak to me on that: ie reading the enclosed paper, it all focuses on the financial deal. “But there the risks are pretty even, probably coming down on the side of continuing. The real of heart of it is the system itself.” In a separate letter released by the inquiry, then-trade and industry secretary Lord Mandelson told then chief secretary to the Treasury Stephen Byers he believed proceeding with Horizon was the “only sensible choice” available. He said the system had been “thoroughly evaluated by independent experts” who pronounced it “viable, robust and of a design which should accommodate future technological developments”."
@raymondo6665 So called "new Labour" is just a slightly more moderate but just as corrupt version of the Tory party. Blairs incompetence doesn't excuse the even greater incompetence and corruption from his successors.
No he did mention in the early 2010 s there were serious concerns but the Cameron govt ignored it , he also mentioned vennels being given a top job by the Tory’s in 2019 this after the court case with several postmasters had occurred yet the Tory’s ignored this , he also mentioned the millions in donations from senior fuutjsi executive s to the Tory party after fuutjsi had secure md billions in contracts from A Tory government , this after the cases in 2019 …. He mentioned all that ,
@raymondo6665that's mainly because they're the people in charge now, trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. He's likewise critical of labour governments when they're in power. People often accuse him of flip-flopping between parties, but I genuinely think he just wants everyone to just do better. To just be better.
@raymondo6665 No bloody need. They're in the past. He's held Blair and Mandelson to account on many occasions about many things. However right now the Tories are in charge, so he's holding them to account. Hislop isn't a Labourite.
@raymondo6665 Did they? Isn't that just you saying 'don;t look here, where we know actual wrongs were committed - repeatedly, and then covered up by punishing others - Look over there, instead, where some initial mistakes may have been made'.
@raymondo6665 PLEASE stop using that word ('wokerati) - it means anything and nothing, and it's just a lazy way of saying 'People I happen to find irritating at the moment'. - And by that definition, Sir (or Madam), You are assuredly one of them PS: 'Just Saying' ; Lamest epithet of this century. - just saying.
I've been reading Private Eye since the age of twelve and it has been my belief, in all the intervening years, that Mr Hislop should be the Prime Minister of the WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD! Honesty, Integrity, Decency, Dignity, Compassion, Wisdom, A Humungous Intellect- he is the best of the best!
Fujitsu supplied the U.K. gov with an IT system for the NHS at a cost £12bn. Large parts of the project had to be abandoned at a cost to the taxpayer of £2.7bn. Fujitsu sued the government (I know, right?!) and it the gov lost costing taxpayers a further £700m. Corporations have this country by the balls and have done for 40 odd years.
What an absolute load of cobblers. Fujitsu walked away from the NHS program at a cost (to Fujitsu) of 350m in costs and lost revenues due to the repeated changes and revisions to the operational and technical requirements which the NHS refused to allow to be Impact Assessed and Re-Costed. As a consequence, all payrises, bonues, discretionary payments etc to Fujitsu staff in the UK were cancelled for some years. Fujitsu then sued HMG to recover their costs (but not the lost revenues/profits), an out of court settlement was agreed c.10 years later, I am unaware of any public record of the amount but it was rumoured to be in the region of 70m.
Sadly, many Government departments and quangos are naive customers when it comes to large and complex IT projects. The contractual terms are asymetric in favour of companies such as Fujitsu even when supposedly underpinned by gain share or risk sharing. Same goes for PFI projects and many other outsourcing arrangements.
When big IT system build go wrong there is usually fault on both sides and often due to political dithering and delays because the ministers are a bit thick or unready to let go of stupid ideas. However, also quite often, the civil service and gov't take blame for things that ARE contractor fault to preserve 'good working relationships' with the contractor - basically because they have us by the short and curlies when in the middle of doing a big system.
Can we have a change to the Prime Minister's questions format? Put Ian Hislop in the speaker's chair and have him make the house squirm for an hour every week.
Oh that truly was a joy to behold. A verbal tar and feathering from Ian Hislop. I bet Jake Berry and his like don't get too much of that, more's the pity.
I fail to understand what is holding police back on this. There is nothing in law that says police can't arrest people because an enquiry is being held.
I remember the huge fuss and uproar there was when Ingrams named Hislop as his chosen successor as editor of Private Eye. Ian Hislop has taken the magazine to another level and has proven over and over again that there is nobody who could do his job better.
Great to hear Ian Hislop telling it as it is. Our current and past leaders and politicians are all in it together - they knew what was happening but continued to ignore it at best, or cover it up at worst to save face. They ALL need to be held accountable!
We need more Ian Hislops, but there is a reason we have so few. The persecution and legal hurdles that this man has faced. The price of honest journalism is steep. Not bad for a satirical editor eh.
Maybe a bit less furthering his career by appearing on TV with sex offenders would have been ideal. But considering he only went to a minor public school, he's made the most of his connections.
@@nowthenad3286 THE sex offender? Well, try Jimmy Savile, Jonathan King and Max Clifford just as a start. Ian Hislop took money for appearing with each. And the significance? Well, it looks like terribly bad judgement! Doesn't it?
Suicides, prison interments of good people, goodness how many nervous breakdowns, Fujitsu et al to tell postmasters that they were only person affected! This is criminal and all concerned in coverup should be behind bars.
Apart from there being 3 other Lib Dem ministers following Ed Davey. Also if Ed didn't have a habit of calling for everyone else's resignation he might be less in the spotlight. Taking a 1/4 of a million from the Post Office lawyers hasn't helped either
@@borandiUK Apart from there being 3 other Lib Dem ministers following Ed Davey. Also if Ed didn't have a habit of calling for everyone else's resignation he might be less in the spotlight. Taking a 1/4 of a million from the Post Office lawyers hasn't helped either
Bloody love Ian Hislop - hope to be an MP one day and I hope to not ever be as bad as the people who let this happen or when it finally does get fixed try and blame it on anyone but themselves.
It was a moment of fresh air to see Hislop dismantle the anodyne statement from Fujitsu "It would be inappropriate to comment" even as Peston looked like he was beginning to fall for it. Statements of that mendacious nature should NEVER be awarded an automatic and forelock-tugging benefit of the doubt.
Not just Paula Venables. Every other boss before and after her should have their honours stripped and their pension and bonuses clawed back. Dishonesty should not be rewarded.
I find it extraordinary and quite unbelievable that nobody will see prison time over this. To lie and gas light these people and cover it up for years is just monsterous. We really need lies to come with consiquences. But where are. The MP's who will vote for that ?
well said Ian...and rant away!! Peston trying to whitewash it?? Be inappropriate mate...Anyway, great work Ian and it is not, as you say, people believing computers...they believed PEOPLE who were outright liars!
One of the reasons the UK Government supported Fujitsu for so long is that ICL was a computer business promoted and funded and with shares owned by the UK Government and then that business was taken over by Fujitsu ..
Government AND Fujitsu should pay £1,000,000 compensation to each Sub Postmaster AND the surviving relatives of those who committed suicide or have since died. For those incarcerated the compensation should be doubled! For the Government to wave their collective hands in the air and say, it wasn't me...........SHAME ON YOU!!!
Well done Ian , keep sticking the truth in their face!
Ian Hislop is a national treasure
He’s a prize wanker.
The P.O./Horizon Scandal belongs entirely to Labour.........and he well knows it.
After decades of speaking truth to power without fear or favour, we of course trust Ian more than almost anyone else in the media and politics. He is a rare thing these days, a man of honour.
So did he repay the money he took for appearing on TV with a string of sex offenders?
@@terryboland3816What are you talking about?
@@SimonFrack The fact that Hislop took money for appearing on TV with Jimmy Savile, Max Clifford, Jonathan King, Chris Langham and Rolf Harris.
@@terryboland3816 So what is he guilty of? Being in the same room as some other people?
@@SimonFrack Guilty of? There's no suggestion he committed a crime. It's a fact however that he took money on multiple occasions for appearing with sex criminals. What WOULD Private Eye say about that?
Ian Hislop -beating politicians over and over for nearly 40 years... Legendary 👏👏👏
First time the “Management class” has started to be held to account. We need lots of prison sentences and then start on Grenfell.
+1 and contaminated blood.
Not the first time at all. I was a manager in a company with ~80 senior managers and by the time I left ~75 of them had been sacked and replaced. The higher you rise, the more vulnerable you are, including your vulnerability to the mistakes made by your predecessors to which there is no magic wand. To be clear, I think that the calls for prison sentences for managers here are correct, I am just pointing out that being a manager is, probably, a far more precarious position than other positions.
None of them will ever end up in a court. The establishment looks after its own.
notice how quiet the tory press and BBC are about the covid enquiry and grenfell enquiry
@@scotsbillhicks we gonna wait untill the next election then Starver will say there's no money left. Peace to all survivors.
Well done Ian Hislop for speaking the truth.
No, they need to go to prison for lying, breach of trust and ruining so many peoples lives… surely.
Every post office head office and Fujitsu employee at the time should be interviewed under caution and told that charges are likely. But a million pounds per sub post master is a good starting point
More power to his elbow.
A fair bit of deserved contempt on show. Not often I hear someone pick apart the language used by politicians, very refreshing.
To say "you claim to like" rather than just "you like" suggests disingenuousness. Sophistry rather than honest debate. Small detail but I'm glad he nailed him for it. A rampant angry Hislop is a sight to behold!
Good on Ian, Massive respect for the guy.
Yet again on point and said with passion, insight and wisdom. Wouldn’t it be great if politicians could learn to be as honest as Ian about yet another FU. All governments across the UK , past and present, make mistakes. It’s the weasel mouthed lying and coverups that leaves us angry and despairing.
Ian Hislop for the head of a government oversight committee with REAL power.
Don't think he would want to taint himself
The thing I noticed was that the three other people in the room just thought they were on "Have I Got News For You" because they are so used to seeing him sending himself up amicably on that. What a great guy he is, our national treasure.
Yay Ian, you da man ! Nobody can stick it to the establishment like you Sir. Long may you continue to do so !!!
We are all with Ian Hislop!
I thought Peston had stronger balls. I was wrong. And watching Ian eyeball that creepy tory MP..... priceless.
Peston is literally known as an institutional worm that only targets those who wont go after him in any way.
Thank the Lord we have people like Ian Hislop in our society, most of our MPs aren't worth a blown out candle !
As a Private Eye subscriber for 38 years I expect nothing less from Ian. And that it was "Sir" Jake on the receiving end was particularly gratifying, a man holding one of the least deserved Knighthoods in a party crammed full of them, awarded simply for being a chum of Boris Johnson.
@raymondo6665 You've missed out this bit, "A spokesperson for Sir Tony said: "As the documents show, and make completely clear, Mr Blair took the issue very seriously. His response to the Mulgan note, and in other interactions, was to raise the issue of the viability and reliability of the end project as this was his overarching concern. He subsequently received these reassurances. It is now clear that the Horizon product was seriously flawed, leading to tragic and completely unacceptable consequences, and he has deep sympathy with all those affected."
@@Number9s No, nothing missed out. You've been duped though. So many simpletons, no wonder Antony Blair has such contempt for simpletons like you: it's always been too easy.
What a great man Ian is.
Knowledge and intelligence is power.
Well said Mr Hislop.
Give back the bonuses?
No no no. We re talking fraud, extorsion, conspiration, stealing, and false accusation with imprisonment.
Massive fines. AND massive compensatory damages. AND jail time.
I just don't understand why we never see corrupt behaviour punished with massive fines and jail time.
Ian hislop at last someone with guts morals and wisdom,we salute you.
Not “at last” - he has been doing it for decades! Just as the rich and powerful- banks, corporations, insurance companies etc etc have been lying cheating and stealing from the powerless for centuries
Actually thanks to Ian these were not ¨little known details¨. Those of us following the story knew them for years, thanks to him and others. The drama contained NOTHING new. It did serve to prevent those in power from ignoring the story! Politicians care little for the problems of ordinary people until they become their problems.
I agree with you. I can remember wondering why no one could see that a sudden surge in criminality coincided with a new computer system and did not consider the computer system, especially as the people being accused were spread throughout the UK and did not even know each other but were committing the same unique crime. I do not want their bonuses taken back. I want them to do hard time, and not any of that open prison crap.
@@konradyearwood5845 While clearly there were multiple points when this scandal could have been prevented the apparent rise in crime isn't that bizarre. This wasn't replacing an old computer program it was replacing actual dead tree paperwork. Since there were reports of huge issues during the trial period I'm not overly convinced by trust in Horizon, but if you weren't paying much attention to the details you might think switching from paper to computer was catching people who were previously getting away with fraud.
This was also during an era where people were making less to do the same job and being made responsible for any losses. If you listen to interviews with sub-postmasters or postmistresses who were caught up in this very few thought it was Horizon's fault at the time. Partially because they were being told by tech support they were the only ones having issues if they did ask for help but afterwards it could take years for them to find out what had happened. Many have said they could never explain the situation to loved ones who were sure there was something going on. Which includes some people who were convinced that their staff were stealing from the till which is exactly what the Post Office did but on the smaller scale. Assuming staff they had known for years had suddenly started stealing without any evidence apart from Horizon and investigating them rather than assume it was Horizon.
This was also possibly the first time they ever used a computer or used a computer in a business setting. The training was laughable and the tech support aggressive in places. The idea that the system was working but the users were screwing up wasn't impossible. You get people saying they were in tears trying to get the numbers to balance, which they wouldn't if they'd twigged to Horizon being at fault. Others just accepted that some months you were up and some weeks you were down so just keep the excess to repay the losses. Again not figuring out Horizon was doing anything wrong.
They also were also on the hook for theft or fraud by customers. Which did happened and could happen specifically because a customer figured out how to exploit Horizon incidentally. But the Post Office didn't care who was individually responsible just that since it was a double entry system (it wasn't) the money was somewhere and unless you could personally prove someone else's criminality and then get the money and resolve the situation you're on the hook.
There was one union guy who kept looking into cases (which wasn't normal at this point because the union position was Horizon works because if it doesn't that's the end of the Post Office allegedly) and kept finding hardware issues that were unique to individual branches. That was a happy resolution in people's minds, this is a unique one off. But that reinforces the idea that the software is working because he only found hardware failures. Not his fault and the software bugs were being found but without those bugs you think the system is working. If they were innocent the union would exonerate them they must be guilty.
The most interesting change in Post Office culture at the time to me is the suspense account. There's also testimony that's pretty amazing about it. Before if you had a dispute over something in the bookkeeping you could push the problem into the general suspense account and say "this isn't balancing and I don't know why" and the Post Office in theory would look into it. And in practice that could take years. The Post Office was trying to pinch pennies so they noticed this giant account and made the decision to change how disputes were handled. Instead of waiting for the Post Office to resolve the situation you had a time limit to solve the problem then you could click on "settle centrally and dispute" which meant you were agreeing to repay the missing funds. Something you might find out after agreeing. That change in part was one woman at the Post Office who was convinced and possibly is still convinced that the suspense account was being used to hide fraud. Genuinely after the scandal had broken, the flaws in the system exposed and cases overturned, still thinks there were plenty of justified prosecutions. That people were caught because they couldn't use the suspense account anymore. She didn't seem to think there was any reason, and again during the inquiry and on the record, that anyone used the suspense account for anything other than fraud.
There's this gap between the type of people working in post offices and the Post Office itself. The Post Office saw itself as trying to uncover fraud and claw back monies. That was how to get ahead in the Post Office, bringing in extra money. So it was set up as adversarial. So if you were sent out to audit a branch after they called to say funds were missing your job was to recover those funds. Not find where the money was or if money was missing, you're job is prove your benefit by setting up a case that gets the Post Office paid.
Again people knew Horizon was flawed right from the start. The Post Office put a tech incompetent in charge of reporting back about the trial who also still thinks he didn't do anything wrong by saying Horizon was robust. Sure people were saying they couldn't get it to work and there were warnings about a possible tragedy but how was he to know the system wasn't fit for purpose? Lots of people had enough information to figure this out years ago but plenty of people were focused on their little corner of the bureaucracy. The corporate culture in both the Post Office, Fujitsu and more annoyingly to be at least inside the Union was about self protection not about getting things right. So someone looking into a possible criminal case might think "there's an increase in these lately" but without any extra information just assume more fraud was being caught or Horizon was doing a great job or the Post Office was getting more worried about being profitable because of fears of privatization. Also being handed a signed document saying Horizon was working was definitely going to be misleading but jumping to this is systemic wasn't as obvious then as it is now. So stay infuriated but individuals not figuring out the rise in cases was all to do with Horizon screwing up wasn't as obvious as it seems now.
I feel Ian's seething anger..I join him in it.
The sight of Ian still giving it 10 to that knob even as the camera pans out for the outro gives me great pride.
Great performance from Ian,well researched as usual, accurate and honest
Loved Ian Hislop for a very long time....we need more people like him who expose the corruption of this country. He is a national treasure
What I didn't know, and which someone pointed out on another video, is that Simon Blagden, non-executive Chair of Fujitsu up to 2019, is also a major Tory donor, and now has a role within Government appointing IT and systems contracts to companies like Fujitsu. That may explain why the Govt has been so reluctant to put pressure on Fujitsu, and why they continue to use them for other contracts.
Maybe you didn't know this. The ex CEO and Chairman of Fujitsu UK is a guy called Michael Keegan. His wife just happens to be Conservative MP and Education Secretary Gillian Keegan.
@raymondo6665 I think 'should have known' is more accurate when applied to all these folks. What I still don't understand is not where, and in whose accounts, these 'missing mlllions' are, but whether they ever actually existed at all, or were just numbers this crazy system just threw out randomly? Any housewife could tell them that machines go wrong when you least expect it.
Provide a link for the source of this info please @raymondo6665
@@helveticaification "Sir Tony Blair was warned the IT system at the centre of the Post Office scandal was “flawed” before it was rolled out, a document shows. The warning appears in a memo written to the former prime minister by special adviser Geoff Mulgan in 1998, which has been released by the public inquiry into the scandal.
It said the problems which beset the Horizon system “may well continue” and that signing it off could leave “what many see as a flawed system” in place for more than a decade. Mulgan said cancellation would allow the Post Office to take advantage of “newer, cheaper and more flexible” technology instead. Pushing ahead would be “unsatisfactory” and leave the government “dependent on a hugely expensive, inflexible, inappropriate and possibly unreliable system”, the adviser warned."
........
"In response, the former prime minister said: “I would favour Option 1 (pressing ahead with Horizon) but for Geoff’s statement that the system itself is flawed.
“Surely there must be a clear view on this. Speak to me on that: ie reading the enclosed paper, it all focuses on the financial deal.
“But there the risks are pretty even, probably coming down on the side of continuing. The real of heart of it is the system itself.”
In a separate letter released by the inquiry, then-trade and industry secretary Lord Mandelson told then chief secretary to the Treasury Stephen Byers he believed proceeding with Horizon was the “only sensible choice” available. He said the system had been “thoroughly evaluated by independent experts” who pronounced it “viable, robust and of a design which should accommodate future technological developments”."
@raymondo6665 So called "new Labour" is just a slightly more moderate but just as corrupt version of the Tory party. Blairs incompetence doesn't excuse the even greater incompetence and corruption from his successors.
This was awesome to watch live!!!!!!
Is Ian Hislop a joy? Yes. Is Jess Philips' face an even bigger joy when Hislop roasts that Tory MP? Even more yes
But Philips' boss, Starmer, had a significant role in this shameful issue!
IAN hislop for PM I loved how he went for the conservatives jugular !! Well done Ian thank you !!!! Xxxx
No he did mention in the early 2010 s there were serious concerns but the Cameron govt ignored it , he also mentioned vennels being given a top job by the Tory’s in 2019 this after the court case with several postmasters had occurred yet the Tory’s ignored this , he also mentioned the millions in donations from senior fuutjsi executive s to the Tory party after fuutjsi had secure md billions in contracts from
A Tory government , this after the cases in 2019 …. He mentioned all that ,
@raymondo6665that's mainly because they're the people in charge now, trying to pull the wool over people's eyes. He's likewise critical of labour governments when they're in power. People often accuse him of flip-flopping between parties, but I genuinely think he just wants everyone to just do better. To just be better.
@raymondo6665 No bloody need. They're in the past. He's held Blair and Mandelson to account on many occasions about many things. However right now the Tories are in charge, so he's holding them to account. Hislop isn't a Labourite.
@raymondo6665 Did they? Isn't that just you saying 'don;t look here, where we know actual wrongs were committed - repeatedly, and then covered up by punishing others - Look over there, instead, where some initial mistakes may have been made'.
@raymondo6665 PLEASE stop using that word ('wokerati) - it means anything and nothing, and it's just a lazy way of saying 'People I happen to find irritating at the moment'. - And by that definition, Sir (or Madam), You are assuredly one of them
PS: 'Just Saying' ; Lamest epithet of this century. - just saying.
I've been reading Private Eye since the age of twelve and it has been my belief, in all the intervening years, that Mr Hislop should be the Prime Minister of the WHOLE ENTIRE WORLD! Honesty, Integrity, Decency, Dignity, Compassion, Wisdom, A Humungous Intellect- he is the best of the best!
Ian, you are a national living treasure. Rushton and Cook will be looking down on you with glee.
Well said Ian Hislop - get him on the inquiry asking the questions.
Fujitsu supplied the U.K. gov with an IT system for the NHS at a cost £12bn. Large parts of the project had to be abandoned at a cost to the taxpayer of £2.7bn. Fujitsu sued the government (I know, right?!) and it the gov lost costing taxpayers a further £700m.
Corporations have this country by the balls and have done for 40 odd years.
Good God! Is there no end to it?
What an absolute load of cobblers. Fujitsu walked away from the NHS program at a cost (to Fujitsu) of 350m in costs and lost revenues due to the repeated changes and revisions to the operational and technical requirements which the NHS refused to allow to be Impact Assessed and Re-Costed. As a consequence, all payrises, bonues, discretionary payments etc to Fujitsu staff in the UK were cancelled for some years. Fujitsu then sued HMG to recover their costs (but not the lost revenues/profits), an out of court settlement was agreed c.10 years later, I am unaware of any public record of the amount but it was rumoured to be in the region of 70m.
Sadly, many Government departments and quangos are naive customers when it comes to large and complex IT projects. The contractual terms are asymetric in favour of companies such as Fujitsu even when supposedly underpinned by gain share or risk sharing. Same goes for PFI projects and many other outsourcing arrangements.
ttp trade deal allows corporations to sue governments for loss of profits! Once we become full a signatory those court cases will be secret!!!
When big IT system build go wrong there is usually fault on both sides and often due to political dithering and delays because the ministers are a bit thick or unready to let go of stupid ideas. However, also quite often, the civil service and gov't take blame for things that ARE contractor fault to preserve 'good working relationships' with the contractor - basically because they have us by the short and curlies when in the middle of doing a big system.
Can we have a change to the Prime Minister's questions format?
Put Ian Hislop in the speaker's chair and have him make the house squirm for an hour every week.
Well said Ian god bless you
Ian Hislop for PM!
Oh that truly was a joy to behold. A verbal tar and feathering from Ian Hislop. I bet Jake Berry and his like don't get too much of that, more's the pity.
We do not need to move on!
I thought the same thing, £1 million per affected subpostmaster.
It's a drop in the ocean to them.
Well done Ian Hislop! He summed it all up in the first 2' 10''.
They keep going on about the compensation but what about the criminality
I fail to understand what is holding police back on this. There is nothing in law that says police can't arrest people because an enquiry is being held.
Thanks for uploading this. Watching from afar (NZ) and horrified (but not surprised) at what has happened.
Well done Ian Hislop. Well done Private Eye with their good work highlighting this scandal.
I remember the huge fuss and uproar there was when Ingrams named Hislop as his chosen successor as editor of Private Eye. Ian Hislop has taken the magazine to another level and has proven over and over again that there is nobody who could do his job better.
Gotta Love Ian Hislop...
Ians been reporting on this from the outset he's spot on they're crooks
Yes Paul, PI spotted this from the outset. Was a story in nearly every edition.
Great to hear Ian Hislop telling it as it is.
Our current and past leaders and politicians are all in it together - they knew what was happening but continued to ignore it at best, or cover it up at worst to save face.
They ALL need to be held accountable!
We need more Ian Hislops, but there is a reason we have so few. The persecution and legal hurdles that this man has faced. The price of honest journalism is steep.
Not bad for a satirical editor eh.
Maybe a bit less furthering his career by appearing on TV with sex offenders would have been ideal. But considering he only went to a minor public school, he's made the most of his connections.
@@terryboland3816 please explain. Who was the sex offender and what is the significance of appearing on TV with a sex offender?
@@nowthenad3286 THE sex offender? Well, try Jimmy Savile, Jonathan King and Max Clifford just as a start. Ian Hislop took money for appearing with each. And the significance? Well, it looks like terribly bad judgement! Doesn't it?
@@terryboland3816 Did he know they were sex offenders?
@@nowthenad3286 Why don't you ask him? See if he knew about the rumours around Savile. And if he did, why did he ignore them?
Thank goodness we have Ian Hislop.
Well said ,,thank you Ian for telling it straight,
We need more people like Ian Hislop.
Ian Hislop is just cutting through all of the crap that others seem to want to try and put in the way.
Suicides, prison interments of good people, goodness how many nervous breakdowns, Fujitsu et al to tell postmasters that they were only person affected! This is criminal and all concerned in coverup should be behind bars.
Mr Hislop is a legend for putting a magnifying glass on "the swamp" that is British politics.
Hislop when he gets into subject is very good.
Brilliant Ian Hislop...
❤❤
I’m going to start reading Private Eye.
Brilliant! Be warned it can be a hard read. But fully worth it.
@@unthenner5519 It is not a diffult read but require much diligence and concentration...so much disclosed compared to MSM!!!
Well worth the money. It gives head line stories that are way ahead of the other news outlets. Also satirically funny but true
Oh I meant difficult as in depressing!@@patrickgray6571
Ian, as ever is right. As for Ed Davey, yes he might of failed but he was Post Office Minister for 19 months, ending 12 YEARS ago.
Yes he failed, but he doesn't accept any responsibility.
Apart from there being 3 other Lib Dem ministers following Ed Davey. Also if Ed didn't have a habit of calling for everyone else's resignation he might be less in the spotlight. Taking a 1/4 of a million from the Post Office lawyers hasn't helped either
What about the 12 tory postmasters since? Noone is calling for their heads
@@borandiUK Apart from there being 3 other Lib Dem ministers following Ed Davey. Also if Ed didn't have a habit of calling for everyone else's resignation he might be less in the spotlight. Taking a 1/4 of a million from the Post Office lawyers hasn't helped either
Love how Peston shows where he stands on this even as he dispenses his obligation to be impartial and fair. And Ian is just spot on!
You'll think twice about getting him on the program again....but enough about the tory, Ian was great!!!
Bloody love Ian Hislop - hope to be an MP one day and I hope to not ever be as bad as the people who let this happen or when it finally does get fixed try and blame it on anyone but themselves.
Jake Berry MP wriggling like a worm on the end of a line. Who gave him a Knighthood?
Very few people on earth get my ear when they speak. Ian is one of those.
It was a moment of fresh air to see Hislop dismantle the anodyne statement from Fujitsu "It would be inappropriate to comment" even as Peston looked like he was beginning to fall for it.
Statements of that mendacious nature should NEVER be awarded an automatic and forelock-tugging benefit of the doubt.
Damn I wish we had an Ian Hislop over here lord knows we need one or two
You have to love Ian for his passion for the truth.
Ian Hislop is so right to get angry about this situation regarding the "Post office scandal" and the politicians involved
Hislop is a national treasure...keeping these bustards honest. Private Eye believed and fought for the Postmasters.
Ian Hislop always good to listen too.
Go Ian. At last someone who tells it as it is
Shut up Peston. Hislop, well said.
Ian perfect even as they TRY to close him down
Jess Philips smile, I'll just sit back and watch
Thank You Ian Hislop for never letting them get off.
Viva Ian Hislop
But STILL next to nothing is being done to actually resolve the issues they've caused, directly and indirectly.
Ian hislop 20 years of fighting this fight man and finally people are listening no wonder he is livid.
why was Hislop shut down.....disgraceful
Beause it's Peston.
It is ITV. Time for an advertisement.
Bonuses for theft, no reason why they should not be compelled to hand back stolen money and serve a prison sentence just like those wrongly accused.
Not just Paula Venables. Every other boss before and after her should have their honours stripped and their pension and bonuses clawed back. Dishonesty should not be rewarded.
Good man Ian hislop
Fantastic. He's awesome.
Brillant! Ian Hislop at his very best!
IanHislop! What a great guy,
Hislop nailed it well done
People in power always win and the working class are always punished and this is a prime example
This issue is the thin edge of the wedge. Time to look Internet and mobile phoneservice companies!
I find it extraordinary and quite unbelievable that nobody will see prison time over this.
To lie and gas light these people and cover it up for years is just monsterous.
We really need lies to come with consiquences.
But where are. The MP's who will vote for that ?
Ian Hislop for Prime Minister Alan Bates for Exchequer
well said Ian...and rant away!! Peston trying to whitewash it?? Be inappropriate mate...Anyway, great work Ian and it is not, as you say, people believing computers...they believed PEOPLE who were outright liars!
I love Ian Hislop!
Every politician & Fujitsu should be made to watch this clip.
whose side are you on mr peston? ian hislop thank you for your very concise details on the way post masters were horificly treated
One of the reasons the UK Government supported Fujitsu for so long is that ICL was a computer business promoted and funded and with shares owned by the UK Government and then that business was taken over by Fujitsu ..
Government AND Fujitsu should pay £1,000,000 compensation to each Sub Postmaster AND the surviving relatives of those who committed suicide or have since died. For those incarcerated the compensation should be doubled! For the Government to wave their collective hands in the air and say, it wasn't me...........SHAME ON YOU!!!
Christopher had the Hitchslap, Ian's got the Hislap!
Ian is a world treasure.
Ian Hislop for the Government post of "Sleaze Fraud finder General"
Probably just the tip of the ice burg, where's the accountability?
Well done Ian!