A pillar of society and The Church. Surely not! Well of course she should but what are the chances that these people get the punishment they deserve for perverting the course of justice such that many hundreds of sub-postmasters were prosecuted, jailed in many cases and forced to pay alleged shortfalls in the accounts that never existed out of their own pockets.
The very fact that Paula Vennells sat there in front of the Commons Select Committee & told a pack of lies to them surely must warrant a prison sentence (NOT a suspended sentence) for doing this
She was also in the unning to become Bishop Of London...yep a woman who ruined lives and lied repeatedly about it was up for a high position in the CofE. Corrupt isn't a strong enough word to describe her and the Cof E
@@Steve14ps Let's not forget that, surprise surprise, she was supported by Welby when she was going for a high level position in the CofE. Birds of a feather, I would guess.
@@DeceptiveRealities Trouble is now this whole business has gone so far it will take the inquiry months (if not years) to get to the bottom of this. The list of people incriminated and their cohorts seems endless, the cost of conducting this inquiry is running into millions and it would help if the Post Office would start telling the truth for once. The money involved in this could have been invested in the NHS. Yes, not only have the Post Office robbed our sub postmasters, but indirectly cancer patients needing costly treatment
So frustrating. I was a civil servant for 12 years. I quit because the people at the top were obsessed with avoiding scandal and blind to doing the right thing. It is no way to behave. I have no idea how to change it, but someone has to find a way
I was , too , for 27 years .When speaking to other Public Sector employees , the tales,,,,though not as horrrendous as the P.O. debacle , are in the same league , and nothing is done . To be fair, taking your cheque , and keeping quiet , makes for a quiet life .
Those people that were in charge and the lawyers that helped should go to prison, Vennells included. If these people don’t go to jail, justice won’t be done. Stop dragging this out, the police need to arrest and prosecute those people now.
" Stop dragging this out" For once, I think the relevant 'authorities' (Parliament and Police) are acting correctly. Surely, the LAST thing we want is a botched investigation - which will inevitably allow many of the guilty parties to go free? EVERYONE responsible for this scandal - both in the Post Office and Fujitsu - should be held accountable, but it'll take a little time to determine WHO that 'everyone' is. What SHOULD be done immediately, however, is grant appropriate restitution to the postmasters who have suffered - a generous _interim_ payment, followed by a top-up later.
Standard procedure in the Great British Establishment Coverup is "the police need to wait for the enquiry/royal commission/inquest/probes to finish". That takes approximately two decades. By design.
No, let the law take its course and enjoy the thought of these people thinking about their collars being felt, worrying about prison food and losing the millions they stole from postmasters and mistresses (conservatively more than £14 million). Let them sweat, and have nightmares about the legal juggernaut that is going to engulf them and destroy their privileged, comfortable lives
@@marvinc9994dude these document litteraly prove she lied to parlament. This is a criminal offense punished by two years. Lock her up. What is happening is that they are waiting for the public to forget it and then they can put her in the lords. Just like boris lied and got away
All of those who took bonus awards, knowing where the money came from, should be asset stripped and given a custodial prison term to fit the crime! This corporate bullying has to be called out!
No more evidence is required. It's just that people in positions of power are protected from the same level of scrutiny as ordinary citizens. A mere hint can put you or me in jail. A barn full of evidence might not even get the rich and powerful into a court room.
think we need judges calusion aswell and the tory mp backing the cover up all the way saying i was lied to means mp got paid and did not do his job or he new and lying either way should be the sack and charged . which one is it.
I think the police know how far up the dirty pole this goes and will move heaven and earth not to start proceedings ,don’t forget corruption as we have seen recently goes to the met as well
While the police do nothing these PO personnel go free and wallow in the money and whatever else they got out of PO for their actions. And where did the money come from to pay them those ill-gotten gains?
@@andydudley1775 Yes, why didn't judges demand precise proof of what PO accused SPMs of? I don't understand why judges just believed what the PO told them without even bothering to question. I's obvious they should have demanded proper proofs. Furthermore haven't we heard PO should have given such proofs to defence council but didn't? So why didn't judges force PO personnel to pass on that proof to defence? What on earth is going on in our judicial system if judges hand down convictions without proper investigation let alone actual PROOFs. It's time for the Law Society etc to explain themselves. Why were/are their judges so gullible? How can we trust any judgement by the legal people now?
Just watched a RUclips documentary about the Nuremberg trials. The main prosecutor says what upset him the most was that the perpetrators had no remorse-none. Somethings do not change
This must rank as one of the most outrageous miscarriages of justice in British history. It is clear that the senior management of the Post Office is rotten to the core. No stone should be left unturned in the investigation of this matter leading to the arrest and prosecution of those responsible. My heart weeps for the many honest people who have suffered as a result of this sad state of affairs.
The scary part is that this kind of thing is much more common than people realise. There are equal and bigger scandals going on right now. But the people and organisations involved get to influence those that should be holding them to account.
Last night (Easter Sunday) we in Aotearoa New Zealand saw the drama Mr Bates VS Post Office on TV 1. The content of that drama was discussed the following day on talk back radio. We are appalled at the corruption and cover-ups done by the UK Post Office. The Horizon computer system was evidently flawed. CEO of the PO, Paula Vennells, should have told the truth by laying the blame on Horizon and not upon innocent hardworking Post Masters and Post Mistresses. Mr Bates VS Post Office is a David & Goliath story where politicians, business leaders and big corporates shaft the little people, and to our amazement the little people fought back with plain truth.
Paula Vennells HAS to pay by serving a long prison sentence, and part of her personal assets should go towards 'restitution.' The number of lives ruined and their characters assassinated is a disgrace. Then there's the question of those who have committed suicide. Their loved ones will also need compensation. The post office has been arrogant.
If these senior people at the P.O. especially Vennells, along with their Lawyers are mot sent to Prison for perjury then any future evidence given under oath in a court of Law should be deemed worthless. Everyone will now know that it is acceptable to lie under Oath.
Everyone who is involved in this cover up must be brought to justice and be made an example of for the misery they have brought upon thousands of postmasters and their families and for the corrupt practices they continued using for many years. How the people responsible for this can sleep at night when their actions were the direct cause of some people unaliving themselves and so many lives ruined, is beyond me.
They do sleep at night because they are callous and uncaring. They tell bigger lies than Tom Pepper and to parliament at that! They produced a video saying that they (Post Office) are a caring and ethical business and look after their staff, to me as an ex union rep, this would flag up an alarm straight away as highly insincere, as a business that really cared about its staff would not have to produce such a film, action speaks louder than words.
@@kk33613 Don't count on it. It's caused too much public anger. For once I think we will see those at the top in serious trouble. Several of those at the top are destined for prison and the foot-soldiers we've seen at the enquiry in the past few weeks will no doubt be heavily fined. That's in addition to the public disgrace they now face.
Full marks to Ian Henderson and James Arbuthnot for being so blunt and direct. I think the interviewers were a little shocked at the honesty of their answers. They clearly have no fear of being sued by her now.
@@paulfairbairn1066 You are correct, it is going slowly. I heard about this scandal quite a few years ago and was shocked when hearing about the docudrama that it is still unresolved and nobody has been prosecuted.
I doubt she will be tbh probably on very good terms with a few chief constables so will be totally protected...seeing as she is a vicar that should be of concern to the church but it won't be because they are just as crooked damning state of affairs all round ...
After the recent taped and broadcast revelations Vennells and others MUST face prosecution. She knew about the bugs in Horizon, lied to parliament about it and still prosecuted and imprisoned innocent Sub Post Masters.
As a regular C of E attendee I am particularly disgusted by Vennells, the thought of her standing in a position of authority and preaching at decent people is both an intellectual and a moral affront.
@paulgodman7939 that position was of course filled by a female, so 'job done'? Not to be too cynical, one hopes that consideration of factors other than gender came into play.
@paulgodman7939 and I just wish to add an observation about my original post, it not being very 'Christian' to pile on in a witch hunt, as the pursuit of Vennells has perhaps become. What I find particularly awful in her case - as reported for well over a decade now - is how she has led the persecution of the powerless by the powerful. This is a grave offence. We need to consider a verse from the Magnificat - He hath filled the hungry with good things : and the rich He has sent empty away. And she has 'taken reward against the innocent' , paraphrasing from Psalm 15.
@@Ken_oh545 Did you watch the video. In 2013 she was made aware that the prosecutions were unsafe. In 2015 she told Parliament that the Post Office where not aware that any convictions might be unsafe. That is an offence under Section 2 of the 1911 Perjury Act with up to two years in jail and/or a fine. There is no witch hunt she is guilty for all to see.
Paula vennells, her lawyers and those who conspired should also be held to account for sub postmasters who took thier own lives. How can these evil doers still try to dodge accountability??! It's manslaughter at least. So disgusting
I'd consider corporate manslaughter charges over the suicides. Especially as the internal post office investigators were telling people they were the only ones. That is straight up lying and will have contributed to the suicides.
I agree, and I guarantee that the judge that told the young lady that she’d stolen from old aged pensioners wouldn’t have the spine to look the young lady in the eye and apologise for saying that.
I replied to this earlier but again I must reiterate what I said before. "Maybe a better understanding of the British Judicial system may help. Judges do NOT have the authority to question or ask for additional evidence in a court of law, they are simply there to ensure that each side, when they produce THEIR evidence, do so in a ccordance with the law. Judges have no input into the conduct of a trial other than to ensure it is carried out in accordance with the law at that time. You ask why judges didn't ask for precise proof. That is a hindsight question based on your knowledge that other "proofs" or "disproofs" were available, the judges at the time ONLY had the proof laid before them by the PO. You cannot ask for a proof of which you are not aware and remember. ALL these cases were jury decided, are you going to say that the JURY should have been aware that the PO were lying? Because remember, they heard EXACTLY the same evidence as the judge. The fault for this whole debacle lays SOLELY in the hands of the PO, they were the ones providing "evidence", they were the ones making the accusations and they were the ones failing to comply with the legal requirement of disclosure. This is NOT a legal failing of the courts, I have very little doubt that the judges who were obliged to pass sentence based on the false allegations of the PO are as angry, if not moreso, than Mr. Average Joe Public!" Blaming judges simply demonstrates a lack of understanding of how the judicial system works, YOU have the wonderful benefit of hindsight, you KNOW (thanks to Mr. bates) all the information that was withheld from the courts, they DIDN'T!!
Stupid statement. The judges have to base their decisions on the evidence before them. Those who need to prison are those who brought false information before the judges.
At the heart of the scandal is the appalling low standard of the judiciary. It was the judges who could not see through this nonsense and that was a gross failing of the judicial system.They have not received the opprobium they so justly deserved. It is to the lasting credit of a handful of competent judges that they saw through this nonsense and threw out the cases.
It confirms that it is always easier for the judicial people to swim with the tide. The courage here was to swim against it and no one was prepared to do that because they probably felt it would be too damn difficult! They had to have known, they had to have had their suspicions!
Absolutely correct. As the story unfolded I was almost as upset by the the 'justice' system (what a misnomer) as by the post office itself. Lawyers gobbled up million and judges swung the wrong way for years, whilst innocent people had their lives destroyed and their resources shredded. As much as anything else, this sorry tale points-up the need to reform the legal machinery and try to acquaint the concepts of 'Law' and 'Justice' a little more closely with one another. @@williamweb9782
This occurred to me right from the start. Why aren't we getting answers from that judiciary re their utter failure in so many cases and what is being done to improve their standards?
Alan Bates is a HERO but why does it take 24 years for a National Conversation to occur over this horrendous injustice that ruined so many people's lives ?
i think it got middled by tory and they been fleecing it ever since .it like when p.c.s.o jcklynn bird and her pc husband started backing crack heads and making them buddies i think it was the scottish accent made her home sick and hate the english while turning on victims in coventry. and then the sap of chief of police rolled them both in glitter before he got sacked and them both band from area's of coventry . don.t blieve me look it up and she still employed .how many lives did they destroy .her crack heads friends ended up kidnapping a dissabled guy for crack he later killed himself .
Like all authoritarian cover ups, it takes that long to unravel the lies and the laws are not in place for the little people. They are there for the people that write the laws…lawyers, law makers, authoritarians etc…. It’s been the same for centuries. These people are pure evil ..which is why Vennells is also involved in religion….it’s consistent with her actions. She is a minister because her conscience is deeply scarred. The only conciliation to people is the knowing that EVERYBODY knows what she has done…all except her. Good ole religion and a nasty conscience working hand in hand.
Evidence at the inquiry shows that Vennells, Bogerd, Crichton and all the other lawyers and senior managers deserve jail sentences, There is no other alternative. The question is how long will it take before these people are brought to justice for the crimes they willfully committed at the tragic expense of 900 of their own staff, the sub-postmasters.
And the PO is *_still_* blocking things. Only today, two witnesses have been delayed because at 20:39 _last night_ the PO informs the inquiry's lawyers that they cannot deliver the documentation relevant to these witnesses. It's the same old story, the PO is not analysing its own email trails properly such as, for example, not following BCC addressees (so that the inquiry is ignorant of whether a witness might have received an important or damning email), screwing up searches and so on. Last July, the PO played the same, "Oh, there's too much documentation, it's too complicated" trick with other witnesses. The PO lawyer got up on her hind legs and delivered a litany of deflection and arrant BS such as, "The PO has always tried to be open and transparent..." when we know very well that the PO even lied to its own lawyers! The PO has had *_years_* to extract this information and repeatedly fails to do so. It is a corrupt operation from side-to-side and top-to-(nearly)bottom. The govt. must claw back the huge bonuses handed out to executives and managers during this time.
That is why the British public must keep up the pressure on the Post Office execs. Don’t lose interest and move on once the outrage dies down and the next scandal comes along. Keep up the pressure!
❤well done James Arbuthnot. Lord or Not: ex-MP or not, you are a copper-bottomed genuine human being who has taken your former responsibilities very seriously. Your support and help for ‘the little people’ is an example of the doing the right thing. Now, I have a feeling that - after all this time - justice may be done. I have been wrong before, but we - as a Nation - cannot let this injustice continue. Justice delayed is Justice Denied!
This is not the only bird the Corona stone was meant to take out. Human trafficking, rigged elections, PO scamdal are just a tip of the iceberg. Corona means Crown in Spanish, they didn't end slavery, they delegated the industry to two religious groups. One established the Witch Trial standard, the other runs Hollywood. Sophist to the core.
Note the government refused to pass the 'Hillsborough Law', which would likely have made it easier and more affordable for these victims to be properly represented. It would also introduced "a legally enforceable 'duty of candour' on public authorities, officials and public servants to tell the truth at investigations and inquiries.". And that happened early December 2023 when the government would have known full well what the ITV drama would show and the outcry from the newly informed public it would generate. Agree wholeheartedly re James Arbuthnot. He is tireless on this scandal and has been since around 2011.
While our attention is focused - quite rightly - on the known or suspected malefactors in this ghastly drama, there seems to be ONE question which no-one is asking (though I stand to be corrected): of the 650 MPs in the House of Commons, HOW many of them received complaints from postmasters in their constituency, and WHAT did they DO about them?
@@LynTaylor-xg3kc Quite: "Mr MP, Channel 4 has discovered that you received 17 complaints from more than half a dozen sub-postmasters in your constituency, three of whom were prosecuted - and they all say that you merely brushed off their concerns as unwarranted. How do you respond?" THAT's the kind of (non-partisan) hard-nosed investigative journalism I want to see more of in this country. We get far too little of it these days from our increasingly timid 'Free Press'!
Your missing the point I think : PO where in trouble( financially) and found a way to steal all the life savings of their self employed work force,, AKA make them pay their employers to work ....
I heard there was no record of where those “repayments” went or what the money was used for. I believe I heard in some testimony it went into something referred to as the “ general fund” and was not tracked.
The judge should be arrested and thrown in jail for life. He should be on his knees begging for forgiveness for calling the woman a thief and stealing pensioners money
I can guarantee that Paula will already be transferring assets to trusts and others beyond her ownership right now, so she has no assets for a fine to be paid.
Only lengthy custodial sentences and sequestration of assets can even start to redress the criminality that has been revealed through the Enquiry. "I knew nothing", "I saw nothing", "I was just obeying orders" simply doesn't cut the mustard.
@@frankcarter6427After we’ve clawed back all the money they stole from the postmasters, and compensation and interest, and a hefty fine on top, they won’t be rich anymore and can be treated as such.
And add also the now deceased William Quarm from the Western Isles who was another one stitched up by the PO investigators and wrongfully prosecuted by the ( now revealed) incompetence of the ex Procurator Fiscal David Teale , who should get out of the law (before he ruins any more lives . ) And as for the despicable post office investigator Raymond Grant who STILL says the LATE Mr Qualm (who’s conviction was quashed ) is guilty in his opinion . Grant must now backup and defend that claim . Where is YOUR proof Raymond Grant, I hope the Qualm family take YOU to court ?
So sorry that you did not get the justice you so truly deserve I pray your looking down from heaven and see what happening ,Fred is flying with the Angels and justice will be served Goodnight and Godbless you SIR 🙏🙏🙏♥️♥️♥️
Vennels must face charges and court proceedings for lying to the SC and Parliament. if not it opens the doors for anyone to lie all the way through the system and get away with it. THis is a test case for corporate justice being maintained. this is a 10 out of 10 MUST TAKE TEST CASE. The only problem being that it will be difficult to find a jury that has no knowledge of the case and no prejudged opinions.
There needs to be dire consequences for all those involved in the bullying and the cover up. Seizure of assets to compensate victims, terms of imprisonment for decades and full nationalisation of all postal services.
Dire consequences like they get honours, a peerage and a lovely pension package? That’s the kind of consequences you can expect for being pure evil from great British justice 😂
If you count their peerages, plush bank accounts, generous multi million pound pensions and living on a beach in the Caribbean as behind bars, then yes.
Every one of the senior executives and the senior lawyer need to be sent to prison for fraud, false accounting, contempt of court, perjury and then bankrupted, publicly shamed and banned from holding any company position. The senior lawyer needs to be disbarred publicly shamed in court. As to the prior CEO’s and senior executives they need to spend time behind bars. 10 years minimum for one of them..
People need to remember that this isn't just about money, or jobs, or even jail. People lost their lives over this. If there was any justice in this world, Susan Crichton and Paula Vennells would be leaving their jobs by being dragged by their hair into the street to face the public they despise.
So a judge presides over a case and supports a conviction where there is no evidence of wrongdoing? That judge, and many other judges, have a lot to answer. Aren't they there to oversee courts and prevent any miscarriage of justice?
But if a court is presented with false evidence, what does the court do? The Post Office could afford the most expensive barristers, sadly some of the postmasters could hardly afford a solicitor
@@tonybeam No it isn't. That's for the jury to determine. The judge is there to ensure the law is followed. Two very different elements of the process.
The evidence of wrong doing is in the horizon system, since the rules say assume computer systems are reliable, once the po changed the rules to say that, that is
What’s unforgivable by the post office is that given there were over 700 issues were postmasters were being accused of theft that at no point did anyone in charge think, one is normal, 10 is surprising and 50 unbelievable. This is why they have absolutely no excuse for not bringing a haltand investigating why. This is criminal negligence, or something similar and prosecutions need to be made. It’s truly disgusting.
I wonder what the rate of prosecution was before and after Horizon. If a lot higher after it was introduced, did anyone ask why it had gone up so much? Or did they say "Look, isn't Horizon so wonderful as it's picking up all this fraud that previously our staff could get away with."
Wow! The whole system was so toxic and dishonest. The prosecutors, the legal teams, and the senior directors. As the man says, it's deeply shocking that a government owned, run, and overseen business has been so aggressive, harmful, and corrupt, to the very core, at all levels.
What strikes me is the disproportionate amount of direction by seniors into denial and protecting themselves rather than investigating and supporting their underlings..its repugnant
@@thewhitefalcon8539 'conservative government' ? You mean 'government'? You have obviously fallen into the 'party' delusion whilst also sounding like a opposition 'politician'..
@@thewhitefalcon8539 - and if it had happened before 'this government' it wouldn't be any different. The flavour or colour of tie is irrelavent surely?This isn't exclusive in relation to 'conservatives'.
The award of the CBE to Paula Vennels was wrong and also needs investigation. It is no longer an honours committee it is a dishonours committee. We need a petition to have the whole honours system paused, investigated and either scrapped or overhauled. Not all recipients are dishonourable but far too many are and are awarded for no good reason.
@@MalcolmSkilton whats has any of this to do with Blair? Do you have wet dreams about him or something, as you seem obsessed. Why not concentrate on having the guilty parties punished instead.
I will be amazed if anyone in senior management at the post office ever face criminal charges. And be even more surprised if the post masters get anywhere near the compensation they deserve any time soon
Falsely boosting your business, or hiding problems, so that you gain a higher salary or bigger bonus, IS FRAUD. Nick Leeson was tackled in this way during the Baring's trial.
On the contrary, all are culpable and will live in fear of the letter or knock on the door for the arrest warrant to be issued. The question is, "Will the UK government give them an amnesty for all the wrong that they have knowingly committed ". Can we really trust the Conservative government.
Ian Henderson and James Arbuthnot are wonderful examples to us all. I wish James was our prime minister. This is the calibre of character we would wish to see more of in our government. These two men deserve our utmost respect.
I can't believe I'm saying this especially about a Tory MP but I'd vote for James Arbuthnot for PM if he was in charge this would be sorted very quickly
I was a sub-postmaster for some years and although not hugely affected by the bugs in the Horizon system, it was well known it was far from infallible. What seems to go completely unmentioned is what happened to the overall audit of the post office, whilst individual branch accounts may have been in error, when hundreds or even thousands of errors were taken into account, it must have shown up as a huge discrepancy across the entire organisation. It also beggars belief that POL actually thought that possibly 10% of their "agents" were crooks, far in excess of the national norm. Also what errors did Crown Offices show at the same time?
Once I heard this story, I thought for a fact that the higher-ups were benefitting financially from this bug. After all, so many postmasters payed out of their own pockets and even refinanced their homes to make up for “lost costs” that weren’t even lost. Where did all THAT money go?
@chrisjordan4210 "It also beggars belief that POL actually thought that possibly 10% of their "agents" were crooks" The situation is worse that that, if nothing was done, then eventually it would be 100%
I've been listening to several of the inquiry interviews, and it's apparent that the PO employed a bunch of thugs to manage security. Having listened to the utter crash of the interview of Jarnail Singh who was their senior prosecution lawyer it's obvious that there was huge incompetence in critically key positions.
Absolutely incredible to see and hear Paula Vennells actually saying to a Parliamentary Select Committee in 2015 that there was no evidence of problems, when in 2013 she is expressly told that the falsely accused sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses businesses' accounts could be accessed remotely without the owners knowing and having any control over it. She has to be charged over that.
To think that this woman was at one time an Anglican priest and had been considered for the post of Bishop of London. It makes you wonder where her Christian values have gone ...... if she ever had any
I get the feeling that the upper echelons of the CoE are often simply expert greasy pole climbers. Reminds me of: “I’m in with the in-crowd and go where the in-crowd go .”
@@PsychicLord Did they ever have any values? No. You only have to look at the high numbers of clergymen who are currently residing at her Majesty's Pleasure to see the answer to that. I've known three clergymen personally. One was a convicted Wife Beater. Another one is a currently convicted Thief who is now of course in prison but praying for guidance and forgiveness. The third one tried to tell me that the outrageous number of Paedophiles within the Church is due to the fact that they all work under considerable pressure? What?
Sounds like organised crime to me- imprisoning innocent people and stealing their assets- doesn't get more sinister than that. Using the 'respectable' post office as a mask for their crimes, they obviously hoped to get away with it. This needs rooting out- I suspect it goes much deeper than Vennells.
I imagine Vennells stomping round a nice big detached house in a state of fury at being criticised with no concept of the horror she has inflicted on others
All who were connected should be subjects of criminal investigation, no matter for giving false evidence, attempt to pervert the course of justice…etc. and sentenced to prison as appropriate.
This and anybody involved in the PPE scandal need to be left penniless and doing time. Wealth and power can affect a lot of lives in very severe manners and as such there needs to be responsible and respectable people in positions that offer such.
The police have opened an investigation to the whole sorry mess. Looking at fraud, perjury and perverting the course of justice. All very easy to prove now I think.
@@oo0Spyder0oo I might normally agree, but in this instance I disagree. I am quite upbeat about the concern amongst the public at this miscarriage of justice. I think it is largely down to the enormity of this case, but I am glad that the public seem outraged.
If I was one of the Post Office workers that suffered through this, being fired, tried, jailed and paying money I hadn't stolen and it was a cover up and proven I was innocent... I'd start off by personally suing Vennels herself, the Post Office, and the lawyers they used for everything I could get from them. Then i'd expect to be giving evidence at *their* trial before they get jailed...
@@leoralph2810 it did actually happen but as a class action by Alan Bates and the other 554 postmasters - you are right, no individual could of done it on their own. Unfortunately most of the damages were swallowed by legal fees leaving around only £20k each comp. The last eposode of the ITV drama covered this action taking the story upto 2019, but it had a big part in the decision to have a public enquiry and the cover up to finally see the light of day.
And it wouldn’t surprise me if the Police who haven’t been the most trusted or reliable of law enforcement services of late fudge whatever investigations are carried out in the next few months or year, if they’re still dragging their heels at that point, and those who should be brought to trial, convicted and jailed never see the inside of a prison cell. As Toby Jones in the drama very aptly described those wrongly accused and convicted as ‘skint little people’, somehow it’s the ‘rich big people’ who seems to be able to evade justice.
It's clear vennels was using her old position as Ceo to steer any suspicion of a cover up when she sat in front of the select committee, a cover up that she was completely aware of but decided her bonus & pension payments were worth more to her that being honest. There's no doubt she is aware of a very bleak future along with those who conspired with her, and may there sentences be justifiably long..
The people in charge at the post office at the time should be jailed and any assets they have should be seized and put into the compensation pot to pay post office workers that were wrongly convicted due to their perjury.
Lies have clearly been told, and this is what forthcoming convictions (if any) will be based upon. This is about more than money; people's lives and reputations have been shredded, and the truth must be told. It is a massive miscarriage of justice. On the subject of "trusting machines," a machine is only as good (or bad) as the human minding it.
Over the years our Communities have lost hundreds of Post Offices, along with valuable shop services etc so important to town and village life. Can we assume this scandal is the main reason for those losses? As I type this it already feels a stupid question!
This is a simple case Venables van den burgh and all the rest of them awarding themselves bonuses have obtained income illegally and so should have it taken off them
I’m wondering if theirs a pattern of family behaviour? I’m thinking John venables the famous child killer of James bulger? Another glorious chapter in the venables family.
So they severed the contract with the accountants but not Fujitsu. Is this not a breech of companies legislation? What are the accountancy bodies doing?
They can’t simply sever ties with Fujitsu because Horizon is a complex and bespoke system. It’s not like switching from chrome to Firefox. They would have to find somebody to build a new system which would take years. And that’s not to mention the cost
The recent evidence in the inquiry revealed that Paula Vennells removed references to Horizon in the papers for the floatation of Royal Mail , and listed it as one of her achievements in 2013. However when questioned she can’t seem to remember anything about it.
Scary a computer error can put you in jail because your bosses dont want to take the heat for a system they brought in They need to be made to answer for what they covered up
Paula Vennells must be sent to prison.
A pillar of society and The Church. Surely not! Well of course she should but what are the chances that these people get the punishment they deserve for perverting the course of justice such that many hundreds of sub-postmasters were prosecuted, jailed in many cases and forced to pay alleged shortfalls in the accounts that never existed out of their own pockets.
Venels is claiming it’s all driven by misogyny.
She should, but she won't
Apparently shortlisted for Bishop.
All of them
I’am not normally a vindictive person but I sincerely believe that Paula Vennells and others must receive a custodial sentence .
Justice is not vindictive. But the law is interpreted by judges in their blind ignorance of technical matters.
How is that vindictive? Its called Justice.
A very long sentence is needed if not then the community should hold her to account
agreed. horrible woman. only gave the CBE back because she was forced to.
@@johnhopkins898 technically, she still has the CBE. It has to be revoked in order for her to no longer be considered CBE, and that hasn't happened !
The very fact that Paula Vennells sat there in front of the Commons Select Committee & told a pack of lies to them surely must warrant a prison sentence (NOT a suspended sentence) for doing this
Absolutely, @stevenoneil7166. Lying to a Parliamentary Select Committee is going to come back and haunt her.
Amazing how these govt accountants can find crime but not nhs Southampton kiddie fiddlers and diary thevies.
💩
Remember this woman is a CBE not too long ago. Awarded for persecuting and sending innocent people to jail.
She was a vicar as well, but resigned rather than face a Consistory Court
She was also in the unning to become Bishop Of London...yep a woman who ruined lives and lied repeatedly about it was up for a high position in the CofE. Corrupt isn't a strong enough word to describe her and the Cof E
@@Steve14ps Let's not forget that, surprise surprise, she was supported by Welby when she was going for a high level position in the CofE. Birds of a feather, I would guess.
@@DeceptiveRealities Trouble is now this whole business has gone so far it will take the inquiry months (if not years) to get to the bottom of this. The list of people incriminated and their cohorts seems endless, the cost of conducting this inquiry is running into millions and it would help if the Post Office would start telling the truth for once. The money involved in this could have been invested in the NHS.
Yes, not only have the Post Office robbed our sub postmasters, but indirectly cancer patients needing costly treatment
@@paulfranklin8636So , effectively she would have sat in The House of Lords?
We need these post office management (their lawyers) and any Politicians who tried to block any investigation IN PRISON NOW.
👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾
Go to jail, go directly to jail to not pass go, to not collect £400,000
No one is going to prison, only little people like the general public go to prison, sadly it's not justice it's the truth!
I fully agree, it's too bad that you-and me are not in charge.
@@petermastenbroek7719 We just need humans with souls, unfortunately we only have this scum to deal with it.
So frustrating. I was a civil servant for 12 years. I quit because the people at the top were obsessed with avoiding scandal and blind to doing the right thing. It is no way to behave. I have no idea how to change it, but someone has to find a way
I was , too , for 27 years .When speaking to other Public Sector employees , the tales,,,,though not as horrrendous as the P.O. debacle , are in the same league , and nothing is done . To be fair, taking your cheque , and keeping quiet , makes for a quiet life .
Those people that were in charge and the lawyers that helped should go to prison, Vennells included. If these people don’t go to jail, justice won’t be done. Stop dragging this out, the police need to arrest and prosecute those people now.
" Stop dragging this out"
For once, I think the relevant 'authorities' (Parliament and Police) are acting correctly. Surely, the LAST thing we want is a botched investigation - which will inevitably allow many of the guilty parties to go free? EVERYONE responsible for this scandal - both in the Post Office and Fujitsu - should be held accountable, but it'll take a little time to determine WHO that 'everyone' is. What SHOULD be done immediately, however, is grant appropriate restitution to the postmasters who have suffered - a generous _interim_ payment, followed by a top-up later.
They want people to forget so it blows over
Standard procedure in the Great British Establishment Coverup is "the police need to wait for the enquiry/royal commission/inquest/probes to finish". That takes approximately two decades. By design.
No, let the law take its course and enjoy the thought of these people thinking about their collars being felt, worrying about prison food and losing the millions they stole from postmasters and mistresses (conservatively more than £14 million). Let them sweat, and have nightmares about the legal juggernaut that is going to engulf them and destroy their privileged, comfortable lives
@@marvinc9994dude these document litteraly prove she lied to parlament. This is a criminal offense punished by two years.
Lock her up. What is happening is that they are waiting for the public to forget it and then they can put her in the lords. Just like boris lied and got away
Anyone in the Post Office that misled Parliament or was aware that they were committing Perjury in Court cases must be held culpable.
They won't be though. The UK has become massively corrupt from Johnson/Sunak down...
You think they care? Why should they when great British cultures love of cover ups keep them safe? Keep calm, do evil 😈 and carry on?
It wouldn't even surprise me if Parliament knew
Absolutely they must. Why aren't the police all over this?
@@larsfillmore4765 because the police are corrupt and seem more interested in raping innocent women than holding guilty rich people to justice?
Harassing someone to take their own life is murder
True.
I agree 100% with that statement
Must be held responsible
Yes. The people involved should be prosecuted
Hope anyone involved is shitting themselves about going to prison like them poor people they threw under the bus
Vennels needs to be in court already, facing charges. As do all of those responsible within the post office and the software firm.
They won't be ... the UK is a cesspit of corruption.
All of those who took bonus awards, knowing where the money came from, should be asset stripped and given a custodial prison term to fit the crime! This corporate bullying has to be called out!
Yup, there'll be another miscarriage of justice if Vennells and others don't go to prison. Justice must be served and SEEN to be served.
she ought to go down for the lies and upset she has caused
JAIL!!
That Poor lady being thrown into prison at 19! So young and her whole life in tatters.
Lets hope that there is substantial restitution
And being guilt tripped.
And the CEO pocketing that same lady's money....beyond sickening.
I weep for this young woman and all the other falsely accused.
If the young Lady was thrown into Prison I presume it was by a Judge. Will that Judge now be arrested for the illegal detention of a citizen?
She should be sent to prison and have all her assets seized and given to the postal workers who were treated like thieves.
Exactly, prison and bankruptcy are the bare minimum she owes.
How much more evidence is required before that despicable woman and others in league with her are sent to jail !
No more evidence is required. It's just that people in positions of power are protected from the same level of scrutiny as ordinary citizens. A mere hint can put you or me in jail. A barn full of evidence might not even get the rich and powerful into a court room.
think we need judges calusion aswell and the tory mp backing the cover up all the way saying i was lied to means mp got paid and did not do his job or he new and lying either way should be the sack and charged . which one is it.
I think the police know how far up the dirty pole this goes and will move heaven and earth not to start proceedings ,don’t forget corruption as we have seen recently goes to the met as well
While the police do nothing these PO personnel go free and wallow in the money and whatever else they got out of PO for their actions. And where did the money come from to pay them those ill-gotten gains?
@@andydudley1775 Yes, why didn't judges demand precise proof of what PO accused SPMs of? I don't understand why judges just believed what the PO told them without even bothering to question. I's obvious they should have demanded proper proofs. Furthermore haven't we heard PO should have given such proofs to defence council but didn't? So why didn't judges force PO personnel to pass on that proof to defence? What on earth is going on in our judicial system if judges hand down convictions without proper investigation let alone actual PROOFs. It's time for the Law Society etc to explain themselves. Why were/are their judges so gullible? How can we trust any judgement by the legal people now?
Paula Vennells and Susan the lawyer need to be made to stand in the dock and explain themselves.
Susan Crichton left the PO rather suddenly back in 2015 - the question is -why? Not given a single interview since
They’ll just continue lying. They need to be in prison and give away all of their money to compensate their victims.
I am glad the PO were stopped before they went any further, those poor dear people I feel so sorry for them.
They need to be in jail, All wealth and pensions stripped.
Not going to happen. The "Establishment" will close ranks and protect their own.
Just watched a RUclips documentary about the Nuremberg trials. The main prosecutor says what upset him the most was that the perpetrators had no remorse-none.
Somethings do not change
same thing happening in this investigation
They were Nazi trying to rule the world, post office couldn’t run a lottery, as they’d get the numbers wrong.
This must rank as one of the most outrageous miscarriages of justice in British history. It is clear that the senior management of the Post Office is rotten to the core. No stone should be left unturned in the investigation of this matter leading to the arrest and prosecution of those responsible. My heart weeps for the many honest people who have suffered as a result of this sad state of affairs.
The contaminated blood scandal is up there as well
The scary part is that this kind of thing is much more common than people realise. There are equal and bigger scandals going on right now. But the people and organisations involved get to influence those that should be holding them to account.
Peter Stone, I couldn't agree with you more.
Susanne and Paula need to go to jail
Don't forget Adam Crozier....he was as deep in this 💩 show as all the PO CEOs since the introduction of the Horizon system!
This is the corrupt and unaccountable UK. There is no chance that "Susanne" and "Paula" will ever go to jail.
100%
The UK is too corrupt for that. "Susanne and Paula" will never be held accountable.
At the very minimum they can and must be charged with Perjury and Perverting the Course of Justice.
Last night (Easter Sunday) we in Aotearoa New Zealand saw the drama Mr Bates VS Post Office on TV 1. The content of that drama was discussed the following day on talk back radio. We are appalled at the corruption and cover-ups done by the UK Post Office. The Horizon computer system was evidently flawed. CEO of the PO, Paula Vennells, should have told the truth by laying the blame on Horizon and not upon innocent hardworking Post Masters and Post Mistresses. Mr Bates VS Post Office is a David & Goliath story where politicians, business leaders and big corporates shaft the little people, and to our amazement the little people fought back with plain truth.
Paula Vennells HAS to pay by serving a long prison sentence, and part of her personal assets should go towards 'restitution.' The number of lives ruined and their characters assassinated is a disgrace. Then there's the question of those who have committed suicide. Their loved ones will also need compensation. The post office has been arrogant.
Also a clear case of embezzlement. The money obtained by coercion was included in their annual shareholders report as part of their annual profits.
@@1inchPunchBowl Fair point.
She's probably wining and dining the judges as we speak.
If these senior people at the P.O. especially Vennells, along with their Lawyers are mot sent to Prison for perjury then any future evidence given under oath in a court of Law should be deemed worthless. Everyone will now know that it is acceptable to lie under Oath.
it mansluaghter they forced people to think dying was a better option and did not blink.
Everyone who is involved in this cover up must be brought to justice and be made an example of for the misery they have brought upon thousands of postmasters and their families and for the corrupt practices they continued using for many years.
How the people responsible for this can sleep at night when their actions were the direct cause of some people unaliving themselves and so many lives ruined, is beyond me.
The same way establishment politicians sleep every night
Don't worry they will never be held accountable. They are too rich and too high up in the social order to be held accountable.
They do sleep at night because they are callous and uncaring. They tell bigger lies than Tom Pepper and to parliament at that!
They produced a video saying that they (Post Office) are a caring and ethical business and look after their staff, to me as an ex union rep, this would flag up an alarm straight away as highly insincere, as a business that really cared about its staff would not have to produce such a film, action speaks louder than words.
Money is d only god they respect 😮😮
@@kk33613 Don't count on it. It's caused too much public anger. For once I think we will see those at the top in serious trouble. Several of those at the top are destined for prison and the foot-soldiers we've seen at the enquiry in the past few weeks will no doubt be heavily fined. That's in addition to the public disgrace they now face.
Let’s just hope that these so called managers and investigators GO TO JAIL !!!
That's as likely as the managers in the Lucy Letby case being jailed.
Full marks to Ian Henderson and James Arbuthnot for being so blunt and direct. I think the interviewers were a little shocked at the honesty of their answers. They clearly have no fear of being sued by her now.
You can always be sued for telling the truth.
@@dingopisscreek NDA (although may be nullified if reporting a crime)
@@michaelgjoyce
Not when the evidence is ‘open and shut’
open and shut - down
Yes. It is a question of ££££££££££££ @@michaelgjoyce
She should be tried for perjury and perverting the course of justice.
And everything else .....
Politicians too for dragging their feet over this matter!
@@paulfairbairn1066 You are correct, it is going slowly. I heard about this scandal quite a few years ago and was shocked when hearing about the docudrama that it is still unresolved and nobody has been prosecuted.
I doubt she will be tbh probably on very good terms with a few chief constables so will be totally protected...seeing as she is a vicar that should be of concern to the church but it won't be because they are just as crooked damning state of affairs all round ...
"She should be tried for perjury ..." ? Perjury is lying when giving sworn evidence in court - not lying to a committee.
After the recent taped and broadcast revelations Vennells and others MUST face prosecution.
She knew about the bugs in Horizon, lied to parliament about it and still prosecuted and imprisoned innocent Sub Post Masters.
As a regular C of E attendee I am particularly disgusted by Vennells, the thought of her standing in a position of authority and preaching at decent people is both an intellectual and a moral affront.
And the fact Welby supported her for Bishop of London with zero experience as a paid vicar shows how dire his judgement is
@paulgodman7939 that position was of course filled by a female, so 'job done'? Not to be too cynical, one hopes that consideration of factors other than gender came into play.
@paulgodman7939 and I just wish to add an observation about my original post, it not being very 'Christian' to pile on in a witch hunt, as the pursuit of Vennells has perhaps become. What I find particularly awful in her case - as reported for well over a decade now - is how she has led the persecution of the powerless by the powerful. This is a grave offence. We need to consider a verse from the Magnificat - He hath filled the hungry with good things : and the rich He has sent empty away.
And she has 'taken reward against the innocent' , paraphrasing from Psalm 15.
@@Ken_oh545 Did you watch the video. In 2013 she was made aware that the prosecutions were unsafe. In 2015 she told Parliament that the Post Office where not aware that any convictions might be unsafe. That is an offence under Section 2 of the 1911 Perjury Act with up to two years in jail and/or a fine. There is no witch hunt she is guilty for all to see.
You don't think this is normal C of E behaviour then?
Paula vennells, her lawyers and those who conspired should also be held to account for sub postmasters who took thier own lives. How can these evil doers still try to dodge accountability??! It's manslaughter at least. So disgusting
What, instead of being paid millions and being awarded a CBE?? Hmm...that would be too much like what happens to ordinary people.
OH GOD HELP US. HOW DO YOU ACCOUNT FOR THE SUICIDES 😢?
THERE CAN BE NO REDEMPTION FOR THOSE WHO CAUSED THIS.🙏🙏🙏😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪😪
I'd consider corporate manslaughter charges over the suicides. Especially as the internal post office investigators were telling people they were the only ones. That is straight up lying and will have contributed to the suicides.
All those judges that sent innocent people to jail should be held to account as well in my opinion
YES.
I agree, and I guarantee that the judge that told the young lady that she’d stolen from old aged pensioners wouldn’t have the spine to look the young lady in the eye and apologise for saying that.
They’ll be running round like headless chickens figuring out how to get out of all this mess but they’ll get away with it
I replied to this earlier but again I must reiterate what I said before.
"Maybe a better understanding of the British Judicial system may help. Judges do NOT have the authority to question or ask for additional evidence in a court of law, they are simply there to ensure that each side, when they produce THEIR evidence, do so in a ccordance with the law. Judges have no input into the conduct of a trial other than to ensure it is carried out in accordance with the law at that time. You ask why judges didn't ask for precise proof. That is a hindsight question based on your knowledge that other "proofs" or "disproofs" were available, the judges at the time ONLY had the proof laid before them by the PO. You cannot ask for a proof of which you are not aware and remember. ALL these cases were jury decided, are you going to say that the JURY should have been aware that the PO were lying? Because remember, they heard EXACTLY the same evidence as the judge.
The fault for this whole debacle lays SOLELY in the hands of the PO, they were the ones providing "evidence", they were the ones making the accusations and they were the ones failing to comply with the legal requirement of disclosure. This is NOT a legal failing of the courts, I have very little doubt that the judges who were obliged to pass sentence based on the false allegations of the PO are as angry, if not moreso, than Mr. Average Joe Public!"
Blaming judges simply demonstrates a lack of understanding of how the judicial system works, YOU have the wonderful benefit of hindsight, you KNOW (thanks to Mr. bates) all the information that was withheld from the courts, they DIDN'T!!
Stupid statement. The judges have to base their decisions on the evidence before them. Those who need to prison are those who brought false information before the judges.
At the heart of the scandal is the appalling low standard of the judiciary.
It was the judges who could not see through this nonsense and that was a gross failing of the judicial system.They have not received the opprobium they so justly deserved. It is to the lasting credit of a handful of competent judges that they saw through this nonsense and threw out the cases.
Excellent point.
It confirms that it is always easier for the judicial people to swim with the tide. The courage here was to swim against it and no one was prepared to do that because they probably felt it would be too damn difficult! They had to have known, they had to have had their suspicions!
Absolutely correct. As the story unfolded I was almost as upset by the the 'justice' system (what a misnomer) as by the post office itself. Lawyers gobbled up million and judges swung the wrong way for years, whilst innocent people had their lives destroyed and their resources shredded. As much as anything else, this sorry tale points-up the need to reform the legal machinery and try to acquaint the concepts of 'Law' and 'Justice' a little more closely with one another. @@williamweb9782
Absolutely with you on that one! 😡
This occurred to me right from the start. Why aren't we getting answers from that judiciary re their utter failure in so many cases and what is being done to improve their standards?
Alan Bates is a HERO but why does it take 24 years for a National Conversation to occur over this horrendous injustice that ruined so many people's lives ?
i think it got middled by tory and they been fleecing it ever since .it like when p.c.s.o jcklynn bird and her pc husband started backing crack heads and making them buddies i think it was the scottish accent made her home sick and hate the english while turning on victims in coventry. and then the sap of chief of police rolled them both in glitter before he got sacked and them both band from area's of coventry . don.t blieve me look it up and she still employed .how many lives did they destroy .her crack heads friends ended up kidnapping a dissabled guy for crack he later killed himself .
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was “worried it would disrepute the post office in a time of email and internet scams”
Like all authoritarian cover ups, it takes that long to unravel the lies and the laws are not in place for the little people. They are there
for the people that write the laws…lawyers, law makers, authoritarians etc…. It’s been the same for centuries. These people are pure evil ..which is why Vennells is also involved in religion….it’s consistent with her actions. She is a minister because her conscience is deeply scarred. The only conciliation to people is the knowing that EVERYBODY knows what she has done…all except her. Good ole religion and a nasty conscience working hand in hand.
@@Twofiddymill Yes it's utterly shameful. I myself am a committed Christian as well as a church goer. Vennells is a disgrace to the Faith.
Her behaviour and her bishop supporting her has shattered any trust I had in the CofE
Evidence at the inquiry shows that Vennells, Bogerd, Crichton and all the other lawyers and senior managers deserve jail sentences, There is no other alternative. The question is how long will it take before these people are brought to justice for the crimes they willfully committed at the tragic expense of 900 of their own staff, the sub-postmasters.
And the PO is *_still_* blocking things. Only today, two witnesses have been delayed because at 20:39 _last night_ the PO informs the inquiry's lawyers that they cannot deliver the documentation relevant to these witnesses. It's the same old story, the PO is not analysing its own email trails properly such as, for example, not following BCC addressees (so that the inquiry is ignorant of whether a witness might have received an important or damning email), screwing up searches and so on. Last July, the PO played the same, "Oh, there's too much documentation, it's too complicated" trick with other witnesses. The PO lawyer got up on her hind legs and delivered a litany of deflection and arrant BS such as, "The PO has always tried to be open and transparent..." when we know very well that the PO even lied to its own lawyers! The PO has had *_years_* to extract this information and repeatedly fails to do so. It is a corrupt operation from side-to-side and top-to-(nearly)bottom. The govt. must claw back the huge bonuses handed out to executives and managers during this time.
Police should now charge executives now
@@martinmorrissey-ed1yw The Judge should. Contempt.
Aye.
Governental org fitted up with its own plod force with powers of detention, arrest, cuffs etc.
Street toughies fit the bill, eh?
@@suzyqualcast6269 Life on Mars returns.
That is why the British public must keep up the pressure on the Post Office execs. Don’t lose interest and move on once the outrage dies down and the next scandal comes along. Keep up the pressure!
❤well done James Arbuthnot. Lord or Not: ex-MP or not, you are a copper-bottomed genuine human being who has taken your former responsibilities very seriously. Your support and help for ‘the little people’ is an example of the doing the right thing.
Now, I have a feeling that - after all this time - justice may be done. I have been wrong before, but we - as a Nation - cannot let this injustice continue. Justice delayed is Justice Denied!
So refreshing to hear of an MP doing the job they were elected to do and continuing support even after leaving that position.
Here, here very well said. James Arbuthnot strikes me as a very hardworking and honorable man.
This is not the only bird the Corona stone was meant to take out. Human trafficking, rigged elections, PO scamdal are just a tip of the iceberg.
Corona means Crown in Spanish, they didn't end slavery, they delegated the industry to two religious groups.
One established the Witch Trial standard, the other runs Hollywood. Sophist to the core.
Note the government refused to pass the 'Hillsborough Law', which would likely have made it easier and more affordable for these victims to be properly represented. It would also introduced "a legally enforceable 'duty of candour' on public authorities, officials and public servants to tell the truth at investigations and inquiries.". And that happened early December 2023 when the government would have known full well what the ITV drama would show and the outcry from the newly informed public it would generate.
Agree wholeheartedly re James Arbuthnot. He is tireless on this scandal and has been since around 2011.
How can justice ever be done for those four people wrongly accused of being thieves who committed suicide because of it? 😔
The whole lot rotten to the core.
Government, Mitsubishi and P office all in it together - this is going to be some cover up.
While our attention is focused - quite rightly - on the known or suspected malefactors in this ghastly drama, there seems to be ONE question which no-one is asking (though I stand to be corrected): of the 650 MPs in the House of Commons, HOW many of them received complaints from postmasters in their constituency, and WHAT did they DO about them?
Would be interesting to know this . . . There is a number
@@LynTaylor-xg3kc
Quite:
"Mr MP, Channel 4 has discovered that you received 17 complaints from more than half a dozen sub-postmasters in your constituency, three of whom were prosecuted - and they all say that you merely brushed off their concerns as unwarranted. How do you respond?"
THAT's the kind of (non-partisan) hard-nosed investigative journalism I want to see more of in this country. We get far too little of it these days from our increasingly timid 'Free Press'!
Since no moneys actually went missing, who was pocketing the moneys extorted from the postmasters?
That is a good question
As said , it went into theP&L account of the P.O. So , better bonuses , presumably , for senior staff .
Your missing the point I think : PO where in trouble( financially) and found a way to steal all the life savings of their self employed work force,, AKA make them pay their employers to work ....
I heard there was no record of where those “repayments” went or what the money was used for. I believe I heard in some testimony it went into something referred to as the “ general fund” and was not tracked.
Paula Vennells of course. (Her outrageous bonuses.)
The judge should be arrested and thrown in jail for life. He should be on his knees begging for forgiveness for calling the woman a thief and stealing pensioners money
This is obscene in this day and age, these awful people should be stripped of their assets and pensions to repay the victims of their injustice.
This whole saga is being repeated now in the Public and Private Sectors all over the UK. We are a corrupt country.
I can guarantee that Paula will already be transferring assets to trusts and others beyond her ownership right now, so she has no assets for a fine to be paid.
She is vile and 'evil' @@brianlopez8855
She'll wriggle out of it somehow@@brianlopez8855
Profound corruption, indeed. Perjury too.
Naturally of course they will get a peerage for those great efforts 😂
Only lengthy custodial sentences and sequestration of assets can even start to redress the criminality that has been revealed through the Enquiry. "I knew nothing", "I saw nothing", "I was just obeying orders" simply doesn't cut the mustard.
Someone from this disgusting cabal of post office and fujistu executives better see the inside of a jail cell some day, this is atrocious.
won't happen - they're rich
@@frankcarter6427After we’ve clawed back all the money they stole from the postmasters, and compensation and interest, and a hefty fine on top, they won’t be rich anymore and can be treated as such.
Yes, and not some cushy open prison with days out and weekends off!
R.I.P Sub-Postmaster Fred Leck who didn't live to see this.
And add also the now deceased William Quarm from the Western Isles who was another one stitched up by the PO investigators and wrongfully prosecuted by the ( now revealed) incompetence of the ex Procurator Fiscal David Teale , who should get out of the law (before he ruins any more lives . )
And as for the despicable post office investigator Raymond Grant who STILL says the LATE Mr Qualm (who’s conviction was quashed ) is guilty in his opinion . Grant must now backup and defend that claim .
Where is YOUR proof Raymond Grant, I hope the Qualm family take YOU to court ?
So sorry that you did not get the justice you so truly deserve I pray your looking down from heaven and see what happening ,Fred is flying with the Angels and justice will be served Goodnight and Godbless you SIR 🙏🙏🙏♥️♥️♥️
I am more sorry than words can say! God Bless him and his family! 😔🙏🙏🙏
Vennels must face charges and court proceedings for lying to the SC and Parliament. if not it opens the doors for anyone to lie all the way through the system and get away with it. THis is a test case for corporate justice being maintained. this is a 10 out of 10 MUST TAKE TEST CASE. The only problem being that it will be difficult to find a jury that has no knowledge of the case and no prejudged opinions.
There needs to be dire consequences for all those involved in the bullying and the cover up. Seizure of assets to compensate victims, terms of imprisonment for decades and full nationalisation of all postal services.
Dire consequences like they get honours, a peerage and a lovely pension package? That’s the kind of consequences you can expect for being pure evil from great British justice 😂
Unfortunatley this is true. However it devalues the honours awarded to those who have earned them.@@thefuturAI
This has to end in prison sentences. Nothing else will do
It did end with prison sentences for innocent people.
Venells and the whole Post Office management involved in this discrace should be behind bars.
If you count their peerages, plush bank accounts, generous multi million pound pensions and living on a beach in the Caribbean as behind bars, then yes.
Paula Vennells should spend her remaining days in jail, her assets should be seized and put towards the compensation due to former subpostmasters.
Definitely, taste of their own medicine
U mean put in prison for other people sexual evil fantasies are u off ur nut where’s the respect for this decent hardworking trustworthy lady ?
She's a disgraceful oxygen thief,jail ,at her own expense.
How their is no in estimation is beyond me. It's an absolute disgrace these people are not being investigated!!
Every one of the senior executives and the senior lawyer need to be sent to prison for fraud, false accounting, contempt of court, perjury and then bankrupted, publicly shamed and banned from holding any company position. The senior lawyer needs to be disbarred publicly shamed in court. As to the prior CEO’s and senior executives they need to spend time behind bars. 10 years minimum for one of them..
People need to remember that this isn't just about money, or jobs, or even jail. People lost their lives over this.
If there was any justice in this world, Susan Crichton and Paula Vennells would be leaving their jobs by being dragged by their hair into the street to face the public they despise.
Paula Vennels should be prosecuted for lying to parliament over this case
Well at least we can feel confident that the Post Office’s ongoing internal investigation will recommend that this happens.
So a judge presides over a case and supports a conviction where there is no evidence of wrongdoing? That judge, and many other judges, have a lot to answer. Aren't they there to oversee courts and prevent any miscarriage of justice?
But if a court is presented with false evidence, what does the court do? The Post Office could afford the most expensive barristers, sadly some of the postmasters could hardly afford a solicitor
Blair passed a law that computer evidence could not be challenged
Judges hands tied. Have to follow Blair’s law
It is the job of the judge to separate truth from fiction.
The implicated judges should be named and shamed.
@@tonybeam No it isn't. That's for the jury to determine.
The judge is there to ensure the law is followed.
Two very different elements of the process.
The evidence of wrong doing is in the horizon system, since the rules say assume computer systems are reliable, once the po changed the rules to say that, that is
What’s unforgivable by the post office is that given there were over 700 issues were postmasters were being accused of theft that at no point did anyone in charge think, one is normal, 10 is surprising and 50 unbelievable. This is why they have absolutely no excuse for not bringing a haltand investigating why. This is criminal negligence, or something similar and prosecutions need to be made. It’s truly disgusting.
they kept going because they thought that if they stopped it would show that the previous prosecutions were unsafe
I wonder what the rate of prosecution was before and after Horizon. If a lot higher after it was introduced, did anyone ask why it had gone up so much? Or did they say "Look, isn't Horizon so wonderful as it's picking up all this fraud that previously our staff could get away with."
@@hoverbovver exactly, a great point.
Wow! The whole system was so toxic and dishonest.
The prosecutors, the legal teams, and the senior directors.
As the man says, it's deeply shocking that a government owned, run, and overseen business has been so aggressive, harmful, and corrupt, to the very core, at all levels.
What strikes me is the disproportionate amount of direction by seniors into denial and protecting themselves rather than investigating and supporting their underlings..its repugnant
Standard conservative government
@@thewhitefalcon8539 'conservative government' ? You mean 'government'? You have obviously fallen into the 'party' delusion whilst also sounding like a opposition 'politician'..
@@ef7480 I mean 'conservative government'. That's the government the UK has had since before this began.
@@thewhitefalcon8539 - and if it had happened before 'this government' it wouldn't be any different. The flavour or colour of tie is irrelavent surely?This isn't exclusive in relation to 'conservatives'.
@@ef7480 it didn't happen before this government
Paula should be arrested, charged and tried herself. She has lied and lied and lied. What a vile human being 😮😮😮
tory rewarded her .and at the same time new every thing .
The UK fujitsu boss get a job in government.. Totally corrupt.
The previous managers as well.
@@MichaelEnright-gk6yc this crimes looking instatutional now it a legacy been going on further than 20 years .
Basically just a tory then.
It’s never been explained……who ended up pocketing the ‘missing’ money ‘replaced’ by the innocent postmasters and mistresses?
The award of the CBE to Paula Vennels was wrong and also needs investigation. It is no longer an honours committee it is a dishonours committee. We need a petition to have the whole honours system paused, investigated and either scrapped or overhauled. Not all recipients are dishonourable but far too many are and are awarded for no good reason.
@Sherlock: Wasn't she already working in a Government role at the time of receiving her "Honour"....
@@Loki1815 I don't know but if so it increases the need for change.
Just like B liar and his "I dont do God "
Becomes a millionaire and becomes a born again Christian
Honouring criminals is the name of the game. Putting Russian Oligarchs in the House of Lords is part of the same game too. Sickeningly corrupt.
@@MalcolmSkilton whats has any of this to do with Blair? Do you have wet dreams about him or something, as you seem obsessed. Why not concentrate on having the guilty parties punished instead.
I will be amazed if anyone in senior management at the post office ever face criminal charges. And be even more surprised if the post masters get anywhere near the compensation they deserve any time soon
me too.
They only jailed one person in the 2008 financial crash. They got a few from Enron.
Sadly, I suspect you are right and that this will drag on forever.
Falsely boosting your business, or hiding problems, so that you gain a higher salary or bigger bonus, IS FRAUD. Nick Leeson was tackled in this way during the Baring's trial.
On the contrary, all are culpable and will live in fear of the letter or knock on the door for the arrest warrant to be issued.
The question is, "Will the UK government give them an amnesty for all the wrong that they have knowingly committed ". Can we really trust the Conservative government.
Poor Paula Vennells.How does she reconcile this with all her church work in her perfect tiny Village?And manage to sleep at night? Just amazing.
Nothing poor about this woman
Ian Henderson and James Arbuthnot are wonderful examples to us all. I wish James was our prime minister. This is the calibre of character we would wish to see more of in our government. These two men deserve our utmost respect.
I can't believe I'm saying this especially about a Tory MP but I'd vote for James Arbuthnot for PM if he was in charge this would be sorted very quickly
Here Here!
@@susanwinchcombe8812 I think you mean hear hear.
They put those poor people into prison, and their only regret is getting found out.
Indeed. The word 'scum' comes to mind for them.
Exactly!
Paula Vennells is not fully supporting the enquiry if she is lying !!
I was a sub-postmaster for some years and although not hugely affected by the bugs in the Horizon system, it was well known it was far from infallible.
What seems to go completely unmentioned is what happened to the overall audit of the post office, whilst individual branch accounts may have been in error, when hundreds or even thousands of errors were taken into account, it must have shown up as a huge discrepancy across the entire organisation.
It also beggars belief that POL actually thought that possibly 10% of their "agents" were crooks, far in excess of the national norm.
Also what errors did Crown Offices show at the same time?
Once I heard this story, I thought for a fact that the higher-ups were benefitting financially from this bug. After all, so many postmasters payed out of their own pockets and even refinanced their homes to make up for “lost costs” that weren’t even lost. Where did all THAT money go?
@@shortking-vp9vv share holders of course
@chrisjordan4210 "It also beggars belief that POL actually thought that possibly 10% of their "agents" were crooks"
The situation is worse that that, if nothing was done, then eventually it would be 100%
I've been listening to several of the inquiry interviews, and it's apparent that the PO employed a bunch of thugs to manage security. Having listened to the utter crash of the interview of Jarnail Singh who was their senior prosecution lawyer it's obvious that there was huge incompetence in critically key positions.
@@shortking-vp9vvThe investigators got a percentage of the money extorted from the Postmasters. That's a scandal in itself.
There need to be jail sentences for senior Post Office staff, nothing less will do. Paula Vennells appears to be up to her neck in it…
Absolutely incredible to see and hear Paula Vennells actually saying to a Parliamentary Select Committee in 2015 that there was no evidence of problems, when in 2013 she is expressly told that the falsely accused sub-postmasters and sub-postmistresses businesses' accounts could be accessed remotely without the owners knowing and having any control over it. She has to be charged over that.
To think that this woman was at one time an Anglican priest and had been considered for the post of Bishop of London. It makes you wonder where her Christian values have gone ...... if she ever had any
She is causing concern among many genuine cofe parishioners. Many will leave the cofe for other christian denominations.
I get the feeling that the upper echelons of the CoE are often simply expert greasy pole climbers.
Reminds me of:
“I’m in with the in-crowd and go where the in-crowd go .”
Did they ever have any values? Thomas A Becket for one.
@@PsychicLord Did they ever have any values? No. You only have to look at the high numbers of clergymen who are currently residing at her Majesty's Pleasure to see the answer to that.
I've known three clergymen personally. One was a convicted Wife Beater. Another one is a currently convicted Thief who is now of course in prison but praying for guidance and forgiveness. The third one tried to tell me that the outrageous number of Paedophiles within the Church is due to the fact that they all work under considerable pressure? What?
So she's had lots of training on lying and cover-ups. That explains a lot.
There has to be prosecution of the Post office management and advising lawyers who advocated ‘shutting down’ MPs investigations.
Sounds like organised crime to me- imprisoning innocent people and stealing their assets- doesn't get more sinister than that. Using the 'respectable' post office as a mask for their crimes, they obviously hoped to get away with it. This needs rooting out- I suspect it goes much deeper than Vennells.
Those Post Office executives should be charged with perverting the course of justice!!!
I imagine Vennells stomping round a nice big detached house in a state of fury at being criticised with no concept of the horror she has inflicted on others
And whilst bleating, " it wasn't me, it's so unfair, snot my fault" .....
Vennells needs to be arrested now.
The PO, Fujitsu and the authorities are hoping to drag this out until enough people forget or die off.
long grass here we come...
Yes, they are still doing so.
It's evil.
All who were connected should be subjects of criminal investigation, no matter for giving false evidence, attempt to pervert the course of justice…etc. and sentenced to prison as appropriate.
we need the connection the judges new and habitualy carried on as normal.
Paula Vennells. Needs. To. Be put in prison. !!!!!
This and anybody involved in the PPE scandal need to be left penniless and doing time. Wealth and power can affect a lot of lives in very severe manners and as such there needs to be responsible and respectable people in positions that offer such.
So right!!!
You just watch Mone walk away from it with her pockets full; beyond contempt.
The fact the people in the PPE scandal aren’t in jail for life is blasphemous.
It's notable that Vennells is being exposed for the Post Office scandal and Mone for PPE - no similar treatment for the men involved....
...and because the investigation is ongoing it would be handy for Paula not to have to comment. Her and her cronies need to serve time.
She needs to do some jail time
Why aren't the police taking action and why isn't the government insisting that they do ?
The police have opened an investigation to the whole sorry mess. Looking at fraud, perjury and perverting the course of justice. All very easy to prove now I think.
Because no one gives a toss, they prefer to moan about the cost of petrol or what’s happening in Gaza.
There is a police investigation but it does appear to be dragging on…
Because they're all in the same cess pit.
@@oo0Spyder0oo I might normally agree, but in this instance I disagree. I am quite upbeat about the concern amongst the public at this miscarriage of justice. I think it is largely down to the enormity of this case, but I am glad that the public seem outraged.
If I was one of the Post Office workers that suffered through this, being fired, tried, jailed and paying money I hadn't stolen and it was a cover up and proven I was innocent...
I'd start off by personally suing Vennels herself, the Post Office, and the lawyers they used for everything I could get from them. Then i'd expect to be giving evidence at *their* trial before they get jailed...
I wish you all the very best, Elezium.
And where would you get the likely
£1m plus to fund the legal fees for that?
Crowd funding on the internet. @@leoralph2810
@@leoralph2810 it did actually happen but as a class action by Alan Bates and the other 554 postmasters - you are right, no individual could of done it on their own. Unfortunately most of the damages were swallowed by legal fees leaving around only £20k each comp. The last eposode of the ITV drama covered this action taking the story upto 2019, but it had a big part in the decision to have a public enquiry and the cover up to finally see the light of day.
@@leoralph2810 If anyone started a Gofundme page, the site would remove the page in next to no time.
This is the kind of corruption that happens in third world countries.
This sort of thing never surprises me. Everyone in a position of power is corrupt
And it wouldn’t surprise me if the Police who haven’t been the most trusted or reliable of law enforcement services of late fudge whatever investigations are carried out in the next few months or year, if they’re still dragging their heels at that point, and those who should be brought to trial, convicted and jailed never see the inside of a prison cell. As Toby Jones in the drama very aptly described those wrongly accused and convicted as ‘skint little people’, somehow it’s the ‘rich big people’ who seems to be able to evade justice.
Behaviour of all lawyers top to bottom needs to be investigated over this.
Absolutely
A rarity an MP with conviction
It's clear vennels was using her old position as Ceo to steer any suspicion of a cover up when she sat in front of the select committee, a cover up that she was completely aware of but decided her bonus & pension payments were worth more to her that being honest.
There's no doubt she is aware of a very bleak future along with those who conspired with her, and may there sentences be justifiably long..
The people in charge at the post office at the time should be jailed and any assets they have should be seized and put into the compensation pot to pay post office workers that were wrongly convicted due to their perjury.
Paula Vennells must go to jail.
How can a conviction be given, when no one can show how the money vanished nor where it went to? Why trust a machine? 👀
Lies have clearly been told, and this is what forthcoming convictions (if any) will be based upon. This is about more than money; people's lives and reputations have been shredded, and the truth must be told. It is a massive miscarriage of justice. On the subject of "trusting machines," a machine is only as good (or bad) as the human minding it.
Send all of them to prison including the judges who wrongfully sentenced people, these judges our corupt
"...these judges are [not 'our'] corrupt".
5:31 ''She's Lying'' cheers (let's see if Paula sues this fella)
Over the years our Communities have lost hundreds of Post Offices, along with valuable shop services etc so important to town and village life. Can we assume this scandal is the main reason for those losses? As I type this it already feels a stupid question!
I suspect there maybe some substance to that question once people got an inkling that things weren't right with the Post Office.
Could be part of Vennell's ghastly plan to turn around the losses and bring the PO into profit by closing branches by stealth.
Was Vennells under oath when she lied? If so then a fast track to perjury charges please. Nor should she be the only one.
Paula would love to shut down people who do not worship at her altar.
This is a simple case Venables van den burgh and all the rest of them awarding themselves bonuses have obtained income illegally and so should have it taken off them
I’m wondering if theirs a pattern of family behaviour? I’m thinking John venables the famous child killer of James bulger? Another glorious chapter in the venables family.
How are the people who covered up not in prison? This is beyond disgusting.
It’s not just the post office most big establishments think they can walk over the small business men and do .
What do the call a group of liars, The Post Office Board.
This inquiry needs to look at the conduct of the British justice system, ie judges and prosecutors who sent people to jail on falsified evidence.
So they severed the contract with the accountants but not Fujitsu. Is this not a breech of companies legislation? What are the accountancy bodies doing?
They can’t simply sever ties with Fujitsu because Horizon is a complex and bespoke system. It’s not like switching from chrome to Firefox.
They would have to find somebody to build a new system which would take years. And that’s not to mention the cost
Accountancy bodies look after their own
Nothing, as usual. they're all in it together. It is called c o r r u p t i o n ....!
Indeed they do even if it means lying. No one cares about lying any more. Not even members of the Anglican Church @@DPK12
The recent evidence in the inquiry revealed that Paula Vennells removed references to Horizon in the papers for the floatation of Royal Mail , and listed it as one of her achievements in 2013. However when questioned she can’t seem to remember anything about it.
Scary a computer error can put you in jail because your bosses dont want to take the heat for a system they brought in
They need to be made to answer for what they covered up
who said it was an error?
"if there was any injustices" good god.