Paula Vennells, 65, may have returned her CBE this week over her role in the Post Office scandal, but there are now calls for the former chief to return the £3million she made in bonuses during her time in the job. And her pension needs to be adjusted to reflect just the basic wage as a minimum
Not stripped: the pension should be halved at least (we do not want the state to have to give her benefits as she'd be under the breadline), and the money should go to the people who have been wronged.
@@jonnyrocket3659 I understand the sentiment. But I know nothing about her financial situation, and I really would not want her to be getting benefits for being below the bread line :)
So Paula Vennells needs to be brought to account on why she lied to MPs in 2015...and the enquiry needs to know why she continued to sanction prosecutions against innocent people...as somebody has just said...the wrong people went to jail.
I suppose she thought that if they suddenly stopped the prosecutions they would have to explain why. It would amount to an admission that all the previous prosecutions were false so she just kept the ball rolling.
It is a must. That Paula Vennels is prosocuted.... It would be a must with many others as well. Also, this is a dreadful time for the Church of England with its link to the establishment, which Paula Vennels is part of
or they understood their audience and wanted to appear on their side. After all they were telling the Post Office to come clean and do the right thing, instead the post office sacked them.
Arrest her. Put her in jail on remand. Take her jail time into account after her prosecution. She is despicable. She is also good friends with the Archbishop of Canterbury. What does that tell you?
The C of E currently have 10 billion pounds in investments, but still ask parishioners for a collection for “the church roof”. That tells you everything about the hypocrisy of the church.
1:13 - The face of true evil in the UK today. Think about how many people lost their life savings, their businesses, their liberty, their homes, their marriages, their self-respect, their futures and lost their lives while she and her Brethren continued to prosecute them knowing they were innocent? Crimes by people like this are committed in front of the world and they smile and tell you everything is fine, while daring the world to find them guilty. Sadly, I think that so many of the Establishment with their 'connections' are involved in this whole sorry tale and that there will never be a single day spent in jail for any of them. ... And one day in the future, they will wonder "What happened to this great country?" as they witness everything falling apart.
GEEZUS, the extreme corruptness of these Post Office executives, and at Fujitsu, is astounding. WHAT did Paula Vennells and the other Post Office executives have to gain by doing this to innocent people?! I am so relieved this is RECORDED, and it will be useful for these victims of the Post Office "scandal", better word is CRIMES, to use in court.
They added the edited balances to their profits. It was simple theft. The oldest reason in the book. They were making record profits and used a rigged system to make more. Every one of them belongs in jail.
Call in the Police and do it now . £100 million of public monet spent knowing all along the Post Office was guilty not the people running the post offices many who were in gaol many of have died, email your MP call in the cops NOW public money has been deliberately mispent to facilitate a cover up
There is already a police investigation under way. However, part of the problem is that the scope of the investigation is so enormous that it is almost certainly going to take YEARS to reach its conclusion. Let's face it, we don't want any of these w*nkrags getting away with it, but a rushed court case is very likely to result in exactly that. OTOH, there certainly does seem to be a very real case for holding Vennells personally responsible for the legal bills, as she must have given personal assurances to multiple ministers that she wasn't lying. She might have had personal friends within the government, but that makes it even worse when she lied to them. And with Labour just about to step into government, the buck passing is going to stop at that b*tch's seat. Nor do I think that the fallout will end there.
Ed Davey? Now nowhere to be seen since this scandal broke. He couldn’t be bothered looking into it when first approached by Mr Bates. Far too busy to listen to the little people😡
@@theenigmaticgameryep always blaming others whilst ignoring the fact that TORIES have been in charge for the past 14 years. The buck should stop with them, but they just BLAME AND BLAME whilst letting everything go to 5hit, literally. Even now, they’re doing absolutely nothing about this. It’s nothing to do with anyone but the Tories. The post masters have died without being paid, and the Tories still haven’t sorted this out. Stop blaming anyone but them.
The higher up in the police will be offered money to not do a thing, and they will take that FILTHY lucre trust me, does anybody with any common sense at all actually believe they and their masters in the lying governments really believe they have the interests of the general public at heart?
This scale of the corruption, illegality and lies to Parliament by the Post Office gets more sickening and devastating for all the accused and jailed Post Masters & Mistresses every week. It is truly one of the most shaming miscarriages of justice by a British company, by a previously respected institution, for over a 100years. Everyone and anyone who was even remotely connected to this injustice should be properly investigated by the Police and jailed if proven culpable.
I think you're taking that out of context they were basically telling Vennells that at some point she will be caught out for lying and covering it up which is exactly what happened. The second sight investigators weren't being given access to all information and in these cases there's always someone with a conscience who whistleblows and then its like a bloody hurricane when it becomes public knowledge.
@@michaelmcginley7930 Sadly you are right on the money..... It will not been able to FIND a scapegoat for all of it...... because they all did their "best" in the situation that was out of their control. That will be used as an excuse and the court friends of these people are going to accept it.
It's all nonsense. The Horizon system was tried by the DWP from 1996 to 1999 and it failed at the cost to the tax payer of £700,000,000. So when queries arose about the system at the post office, it should of sent alarm bells ringing right at the beginning, but they willfully ignored the warnings and put the blame on the sub-post masters. I think there should be an enquiry into Horizon systems and Fujitsu, to see just how they got these contracts in the first place. Have they got friends in high places?
@@jjefferyworboys8138 These white collars criminals are getting the state to pay for the legal cost..... Because they did it at the job and therefore!!
@@JohnSmith-vy4lh Like what you said here..... But I have been seeing this system failures come to live in many cases and i do really wonder why do some companies get contracts on official delivery time and a time again ..... when they fail big time and are delayed big time again and again....
Paula Vennells is a Cof E vicar or something like that. Not much can make what she has done any worse but that surely comes close. Added hypocrisy mingled with religious dogma.
This is bad. Very bad. Too many lives were permanently damaged by this scandal and I feel there will be no justice until the main players, both within the post office and fujitsu, are stripped of all financial gains and that they see jail time.
Innocent people took their lives over this, others were left with mental health issues and many lost everything they owned ! - That woman is despicable and should be held accountable 😡.
Where did the financial discrepancies go? What was the incentive to cover this up? It's corruption. Investigate their finances and send Vennells to prison; she sent a pregnant woman to prison. She had no sympathy, and is deserving of none.
they had a seperate account that any imbalance would be shifted to and after a period of times (3 years I think?) it was written off as an accounting error and any monies held in that account ie Subpostmasters paying out of pocket in an attempt to make up a shortfall shown on the computer was re-absorbed into the main post office account...in other words any mony that could not be correctly allocated was effectively stolen by the post office after that waiting period was over..
Surely the real fraud is perpetrated by Fujitsu and senior members of PO who covered it up. Why are the Police not investigating? We hear about old murder cases and cold cases being re opened with a lot less evidence than we have here...
Her, and all those who knew, need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They all need time behind bars, like the people they put behind bars. They also need to lose their livelihoods and become 'ordinary' people and see how it feels to struggle. Just like they made all those postmasters struggle
its not so much that they were stealing money... they were fiddling with a defective system in an attempt to fix it in real time...that is the system was incorrectly showing money that did not exist to be in the account...no one was pocketing it as it was not there, what they did do was it seems try and hide that this was happening..by moving the issue onto one of user error rather than system error.
During those released tapes, not once was it mentioned about the harm being done to the victims. Downright disgusting! For every year that the Post Office has lied there should be the same in sentencing to prison, all those that knew about the issue and kept quiet while innocent people had their lives destroyed!
Time for Rishi to make good on his first No.10 statement......accountability, integrity , and professionalism at all levels. There should be no second Frank Hester chances for Paula Venells and other PO executives. " I'm sorry " doesn't cut it.
Surely, this is a case of perjury, which can be prosecuted in a court of law. Those who knew and still took those poor sub-postmasters to court, must face jail time of their own! I have other questions too though: What were the Fujitsu staff doing whilst they were in the live accounting systems? Were they stealing money? Why didn’t anyone at Fujitsu do anything to stop this from happening? It was abundantly clear that there were major issues. Where did all the money that the sub-postmasters have to pay out of their own pockets go? Why did it take SO long to sort out? Why is Paula Vennells not in prison?
I as much as I can work out the post money the is in simple form, all just payed the post offices bank account with bigger bank, the that where it is to this day, a surplice cash not should not be in tha count r accounts of heard post office, I wonder big bosses helped them self's to excess cash as bonus, as on one would not miss cash that should not be there, can not be explained as to how it got there in the first place, well until now anyway that is?
@@John64125 it would depend on wheter or not she was sworn in during her testimony in front of the parliamentary committee (if she was that would be pretty slam dunk) and wheter or not she signed any sworn legal documents (sadly, I think that would only hurt some lower ranking paper pushers, who would have to attest to some things regarding the data system fir the prosecutions). Sadly I think the best possible outcome is that by manifestly misleading her employers she should have violated civil service code, and then they could hopefully yank her pension.
@@huginnmuninn2155 good input, thanks. I suspect like so many of these very senior people she will have been skilled at avoiding illegal acts. So much as we all hope for justice we might have to accept lesser punishment.
It continues to be a joy to live in a country where those who hold positions of real power so routinely seem to be terrifyingly cold-blooded sociopaths. Sociopaths who behave as though they were assured from the start that they would never be held accountable like the little people. And who, indeed, have always got away with it. Will that finally change now? They will fight tooth and nail to make sure it doesn’t. We shall see what happens.
Nothing will happen, it's the UK. Nothing ever happens to people with wealth, power and connections. This is what has alwaya happened in a "class based" country.
Sir Ed Davey ran for the hills as soon as the story broke and I understand he was the minister in charge at the time as part of the slimy Clegg coalition. Strangely silent on the subject for a politician.
@@theenigmaticgamerslimy Tory coalition, you mean. It was the TORIES IN CHARGE, not the Lib Dem’s, the Tories. Cameron was prime minister and he was a Conservative. They bought in £9k student fees etc, the Tories did, not Lib Dem not anyone else. The buck should have stopped with the Tories, but they managed to blame everything on the Lib Dem’s. There’s a lesson there for anyone wanting to get into bed with the devil.
No, they are not proud - they are saddened that this bad apple is tainting the good work done by many good Christian clergy. Many instrumental in setting up Food Banks, Centres for the Homeless and fight against poverty and injustice. Don't generalise! In every profession there are good and bad apples - Dr.Shipman didn't make every doctor a murderer!! Be fair, not blinkered!
Paula deserves jail time as a leader of the organisation and made fully aware of the situation but still clearly misleading everyone, any bonuses paid to her and the team should be clawed back or asserts seized as it would with any criminal gains.
The question in my mind after hearing all about this case is why on earth would Fujitsu need to access the system in the first place, and if they did access it then why would they change the balance?
I think they were aware of known errors within the horizon system, so to cover it up they would access the accounts and alter the figures to cover this up
@@canalboatingand that's what's gunna condemn them. Becos the postoffice have said there was no money missing in the end. So this proves they knew the postmasters were ( INNOCENT ). Which proves there (GUILT ) simple as that.❤❤❤
that's expected they can access it, i work in the industry, the developer , reseller of any system such as this would need access for upgrades, troubleshooting, training and so on. It would be really strange if they could'nt remotely access it. I on far less costly systems was doing this 20+ years ago, in fact it was common even going back to the 90's, 80,Pre Internet. The PO would be fully aware and it would be part of the contract that Fujitsu could access it. In my Job for instance , i can access multiple systems, multiple clients, all across the world , even on request by the client for a particular task or pre emptive maintence, upgrades etc. I can do this from my home, and i am not Fujitsu
If there's such a thing as genuine British justice remaining in our country, ex P.O. CEO Paula Vennells should be arrested; questioned; charged if any unearthed crimes meet the appropriate legal threshold and then sent for trial at Crown court. If found guilty after a trial, one would imagine a custodial sentence would be the most appropriate punishment.
Last night (Easter Sunday) we in Aotearoa New Zealand saw the drama Mr Bates VS Post Office on TV 1. The content of that drama was discussed the following day on talk back radio. We are appalled at the corruption and cover-ups done by the UK Post Office. The Horizon computer system was evidently flawed. CEO of the PO, Paula Vennells, should have told the truth by laying the blame on Horizon and not upon innocent hardworking Post Masters and Post Mistresses. Mr Bates VS Post Office is a David & Goliath story where politicians, business leaders and big corporates shaft the little people, and to our amazement the little people fought back with plain truth.
How cruel these officials were to watch 900 innocent people persecuted and ruined. No sympathy, no mercy and a highly illegal campaign zealously pursued against small business people. Every person who told the sub postmasters the lie that they were the only one accused should be prosecuted. Not just the people at the top. " Just following orders" must not be an acceptable defense. It is depressing to think how many knew what they were doing and no brave whistleblowers among them for so many years.
With each new revelation this just gets worse. Nowhere to run anymore. She's guilty of having innocent people wrongly incarcerated. I can't see any other option than a lengthy prison sentence
Vennells et al did this because they believed they could get away with it. So we must examine why they thought that. Should long jail sentences ultimately arrive for P.O. executives then it might just make executives of other companies operating in the U.K. think twice about doing whatever they think they can get away with.
This beyond a public enquiry now . There is more than reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and that has to take precedent now . The enquiry should be suspended awaiting the criminal investigation outcome . The public must demand this.
It is difficult to see this as other than a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Luckily for Paula Vennells, the bosses never have to face the consequences of their actions. This will all be swept under the carpet.
By not telling the courts that the system COULD be accessed remotely she perverted the course of justice which is a criminal offence so why has she still not been arrested?????
The Police need to start their investigation now and stop using the public inquiry as an excuse for delay - they risk being accused of a cover up to protect those who are part of the establishment. Vernell's et al need to experience justice and if found guilty they should not only go to prison for a significant time but also lose their post office public sector pensions and be made to pay back any bonuses that they received from any acts of lying. The public inquiry also needs to establish who in the civil service also knew about these crimes and hold them to account to. Justice needs to happen and been seen to have happened.
Vennells needs to either be sorted out for lack of oversight and inability to run the PO, or be arrested and charged with offenses that lead to wrongful convictions.
@@fasthracing I was thinking the same...outrage just won't go away, like a curry stain. But no time served, apart from the peasants. That's the problem with the UK...Still clinging to an archaic " class system " that most mature countries abandoned decades ago. Golly Gosh.
Sadly compensation in £££ does not erase the horror felt by innocent people being labelled as criminals with prison records. It’s now time that those responsible see what it’s like to be behind bars, for a long time.
Remote access in itself is not a problem. What really counts are unaudited remote transactions. Every single entry in a computer based accounting system must have an audit trail. No trail, no system integrity. Now combine that with system bugs, deficiencies and faults and we have an unsafe accounting system. But don’t worry anyone, Fujitsu have now been awarded the contract to provide a digital ID for British citizens.
I thought that ages ago. The money wasn't taken from customers benefits,pensions, savings etc so where was it being taken from to show a loss? The post office must not know how much money it was making to not know what was missing and where from. Very dodgy.
Where did the money go? How did they prosecute anybody without tracking the stolen money? The horizon system showed a loss in money but the accounts or assets of the sub postmasters showed no increase. Maybe one or two could have hidden the money but all of them?
It was an unusual accounting system - no double-entry, no audit trail, just a black box that said "This is what should be in the till: never mind how I know". Add that to management that assumed postmasters were as crooked as they were and we see the result.
Any normal person with an ounce of integrity would have understood that 900 sub postmasters involved in criminality was a ludicrous idea, but Vennells won't pay the price.Her type will have powerful friends & influence. I understand she was involved with the church so I suggest she dusts off her Bible starts reading it.She may believe there's a heaven but I suggest she prepares for the other possibility.
They knew the scandal was coming. It is half the reason why Royal Mail began splitting all its services up into standalone companies as part of the Royal Mail group and ultimately becoming a private company. I struggle to believe that UK government were not aware of this problem. Highly likely that The Post Office were doing their best to supress information reaching parliament, but there is no way that they would have kept it under wraps for over a decade.
There is a flip side to this, I set a business up in 2008. Paid my VAT & PAYE via the post office. I had receipt of payment by Post Office Counters Limited. The cheques cleared my account and I supplied HMRC with the proof and obtained the cheques back from the bank as proof. HMRC stated I had not paid HMRC and the money was still owing. £14K in total. Can I have my money back?
I cannot get my head around Fujitsu having read and write access to the postmaster accounts. Why were the PO agreeable to a stunt like that? The great problem with putting people in jail is that Paula Vennells is not the only one but she does appear to have been caught red handed.
No one is owning up. Saying I would like to say sorry is not saying sorry. The courts need to require a STRAIGHT ANSWER and need to keep asking the same question untill they get one.
I remember clearly a couple of times my screens go from the front office to the back office and move around changing my system in 2009 -2014 and after reporting discreprancies at end of account balance I saw it was being altered by Fujitsu the following morning, prior to start of business my Horizon system was not on UK time so they may have thought it was about 06:00hrs UK time.
This is absolutely mind blowing. What I don’t understand is why they were so hell bent on protecting Fujitsu. Why not just come out at the beginning? I’m guessing there must have been government pressure on Vennells to bury it.
With the Post Office scandal and the similar Libor scandal, we really do live in a corrupt tin-pot country. I hate how the accusations are pointed at "The Post Office" rather than at all the specific people involved. The criminal case should target them, not the Post Office which is now made up of different people. Vennells and others should be personally penalised for this, not the tax payer through Post Office pay outs.
The Police are investigating this as a criminal complaint but have said it could take "years" before they finish and charge someone. A journalist needs to find out why it will take so long when there is so much evidence out there already that is more than a smoking gun. Real justice also involves speed and realistically there's no reason why it should take more than 12 months after the inquiry is finished to bring charges.
To fully understand the issue we have to understand that Postmasters were trusted, they had a position of authority. This was taken from them, they did everything to be a valued member of society and this was taken by corrupt liars. Yet those liars are not in prison for ruining lives.
Surely there is sufficient evidence to directly arrest, charge and remand Vennells. Remand would serve as a protective custody until trial which would be post public enquiry findings. There must be a real risk Vennells will dispose of her assets, abscond or self harm.
Vennels was unaffected by the horrific suffering and suicides. There is a price to pay and anything less than jail will be seen by the country as a sick justice system.
The post office representatives are still bullying victims regarding compensation. A good friend was told at the time to plead guilty otherwise she would lose her children. She plead guilty and still lost her youngest child anyway. Now, they're telling her that because she plead guilty, if she takes compensation they will re investigate, and she may well end up having further criminal convictions. She's so traumatised by the whole thing she's not going for compensation because she's terrified. There is no justice.
So who stole the money? If someone external to post office workers remote accessed these computers and took money, isnt it time Fujitsu workers were investigated??
She committed fraud, lied to Parliament, and allowed a crime to proceed, she needs gaol time.
She was living of the proceeds of crime
gaol time best time
Paula Vennells, 65, may have returned her CBE this week over her role in the Post Office scandal, but there are now calls for the former chief to return the £3million she made in bonuses during her time in the job. And her pension needs to be adjusted to reflect just the basic wage as a minimum
@@BigGollywog Or a Labour one even.
She's a woman so no chance in a feminist society.
First thing, she should be stripped of her Post Office pension!! Second thing, criminal trial and prison.
👍💯
Not stripped: the pension should be halved at least (we do not want the state to have to give her benefits as she'd be under the breadline), and the money should go to the people who have been wronged.
@@annepoitrineau5650 even without her PO pension, she won't be on the breadline... strip it 100%
@@jonnyrocket3659 I understand the sentiment. But I know nothing about her financial situation, and I really would not want her to be getting benefits for being below the bread line :)
lol, she will get double pay for her good work for the PO!
So Paula Vennells needs to be brought to account on why she lied to MPs in 2015...and the enquiry needs to know why she continued to sanction prosecutions against innocent people...as somebody has just said...the wrong people went to jail.
I suppose she thought that if they suddenly stopped the prosecutions they would have to explain why. It would amount to an admission that all the previous prosecutions were false so she just kept the ball rolling.
Tramp - straight to prison and her home and all possessions seized. 2:32
100%
She's a woman so no chance in a feminist society.
All of this and she is a part time vicar, that says it all.
Lying person. Vennells needs to go to prison.
She's a woman so no chance. Women get special treatment in a feminist society.
👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾
It wont happen believe me.toomany friends on high places
It is a must. That Paula Vennels is prosocuted.... It would be a must with many others as well. Also, this is a dreadful time for the Church of England with its link to the establishment, which Paula Vennels is part of
Vermin Vennells
These despicable people NEED to be in Jail. This whole dreadful Post Office saga is WRONG on so many levels..... makes me sick.....
did it with full confidence of the goverment behind her .
@caroledell9751 The sight of her face makes me sick also.
@caroledell9751 The sight of her face makes me sick also.
But it's the norm, it's how institutions operate. It's not just Post Office
Criminal. She and the post office should be criminally investigated.
What is there left to investigate? She needs to go to prison
What are the police playing at are they completely corrupt themselves?
She's a woman so no chance in a feminist society.
@@Starbuck251only as corrupt as the long tentacle they are apart of (government)
@@Starbuck251this has nothing to do with the police 😂
Paula should attend court not a public hearing
By the end of all this i bet the only people who would have served a prison sentence are the wrongfully imprisoned sub postmasters
When the investigator refers to “SOME BLOODY WHISTLEBLOWER” shows you where their loyalty was.
Exactly what I was thinking.
The majority of people think like this as “the truth” is unpalatable to most, with comforting lies being preferred….
or they understood their audience and wanted to appear on their side. After all they were telling the Post Office to come clean and do the right thing, instead the post office sacked them.
Complicit in the cover up
@@testnameone806In which case they themselves should have been the "bloody whistleblowers" and brought these recordings to the attention of the Court.
Time for the people in the know to be charged, convicted and jailed/gaoled…and quickly.
She's a woman so no chance. Women get special treatment in a feminist society.
For many things . Infected blood scandal Grenfell Hillsborough Covid Illegal War Care Pathways to name but a few more
👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾
When is she going to be arrested?
She's a woman so no chance. Women get special treatment in a feminist society.
👏🏾👏🏾👍🏾
When will you be getting your pension ?
? ?
Arrest her. Put her in jail on remand. Take her jail time into account after her prosecution. She is despicable. She is also good friends with the Archbishop of Canterbury. What does that tell you?
She WAS good friend until the Archbishop learnt the truth.
She is in the "Club", so will get away with it!
Religious piousness and hypocrisy go hand in hand.
The C of E currently have 10 billion pounds in investments, but still ask parishioners for a collection for “the church roof”. That tells you everything about the hypocrisy of the church.
She is also an ordained priest
1:13 - The face of true evil in the UK today. Think about how many people lost their life savings, their businesses, their liberty, their homes, their marriages, their self-respect, their futures and lost their lives while she and her Brethren continued to prosecute them knowing they were innocent? Crimes by people like this are committed in front of the world and they smile and tell you everything is fine, while daring the world to find them guilty. Sadly, I think that so many of the Establishment with their 'connections' are involved in this whole sorry tale and that there will never be a single day spent in jail for any of them. ... And one day in the future, they will wonder "What happened to this great country?" as they witness everything falling apart.
Colin you are so correct and cogent in your explanation
Hey Paula! Isn't it past YOUR jail time! 😠
GEEZUS, the extreme corruptness of these Post Office executives, and at Fujitsu, is astounding.
WHAT did Paula Vennells and the other Post Office executives have to gain by doing this to innocent people?!
I am so relieved this is RECORDED, and it will be useful for these victims of the Post Office "scandal", better word is CRIMES, to use in court.
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Perjury, defamation of character, fraud.
I AGREE with you
They added the edited balances to their profits. It was simple theft. The oldest reason in the book. They were making record profits and used a rigged system to make more. Every one of them belongs in jail.
will she ever get brought to justice...somehow i doubt it
Call in the Police and do it now . £100 million of public monet spent knowing all along the Post Office was guilty not the people running the post offices many who were in gaol many of have died, email your MP call in the cops NOW public money has been deliberately mispent to facilitate a cover up
There is already a police investigation under way.
However, part of the problem is that the scope of the investigation is so enormous that it is almost certainly going to take YEARS to reach its conclusion. Let's face it, we don't want any of these w*nkrags getting away with it, but a rushed court case is very likely to result in exactly that.
OTOH, there certainly does seem to be a very real case for holding Vennells personally responsible for the legal bills, as she must have given personal assurances to multiple ministers that she wasn't lying.
She might have had personal friends within the government, but that makes it even worse when she lied to them. And with Labour just about to step into government, the buck passing is going to stop at that b*tch's seat. Nor do I think that the fallout will end there.
And some minister somewhere had to sign off on that amount of money being spent.
Ed Davey? Now nowhere to be seen since this scandal broke. He couldn’t be bothered looking into it when first approached by Mr Bates. Far too busy to listen to the little people😡
@@theenigmaticgameryep always blaming others whilst ignoring the fact that TORIES have been in charge for the past 14 years. The buck should stop with them, but they just BLAME AND BLAME whilst letting everything go to 5hit, literally. Even now, they’re doing absolutely nothing about this. It’s nothing to do with anyone but the Tories. The post masters have died without being paid, and the Tories still haven’t sorted this out. Stop blaming anyone but them.
The higher up in the police will be offered money to not do a thing, and they will take that FILTHY lucre trust me, does anybody with any common sense at all actually believe they and their masters in the lying governments really believe they have the interests of the general public at heart?
This scale of the corruption, illegality and lies to Parliament by the Post Office gets more sickening and devastating for all the accused and jailed Post Masters & Mistresses every week. It is truly one of the most shaming miscarriages of justice by a British company, by a previously respected institution, for over a 100years. Everyone and anyone who was even remotely connected to this injustice should be properly investigated by the Police and jailed if proven culpable.
How can she now be reported to be having a career in the NHS if that is true we need more than God to help us!
One of the NHS star studded management team
They've seen the light. she's gone.
She is also an ordained priest what a bloody joke she should be serving a minimum 10 years
Well as she was a Church of England minister maybe she herself could contact god?
@@fasthracing I think the Devil might have gotten there first. She might even try that as a defence....?😄
"Some bloody whistleblower".....meaning an individual who cannot sleep at night knowing the hell an innocent postmaster might be going through.
I think you're taking that out of context they were basically telling Vennells that at some point she will be caught out for lying and covering it up which is exactly what happened. The second sight investigators weren't being given access to all information and in these cases there's always someone with a conscience who whistleblows and then its like a bloody hurricane when it becomes public knowledge.
She deserves serious prison time. What an evil woman.
Very evil wicked individual
She's from the church. What would jesus do?
Not a woman..... Demon!!
But it's fine she talks posh!!
Vennells must go to prison!!!!
All of them need to go to prison
I agree @@juliemaltby9751
None will go to prison
I think there might be one lamb@@michaelmcginley7930
@@michaelmcginley7930 Sadly you are right on the money..... It will not been able to FIND a scapegoat for all of it...... because they all did their "best" in the situation that was out of their control. That will be used as an excuse and the court friends of these people are going to accept it.
“Truely sorry”. What a joke of a statement. Why no Post Office or Fujitsu executives in prison? People have died. I call that MURDER 🤬
Just like the bankers who caused the financial crash...all retired long ago and living in luxury....
If Vennells doesn't go to prison, it means money can get you off the hook.
It's all nonsense.
The Horizon system was tried by the DWP from 1996 to 1999 and it failed at the cost to the tax payer of £700,000,000.
So when queries arose about the system at the post office, it should of sent alarm bells ringing right at the beginning, but they willfully ignored the warnings and put the blame on the sub-post masters.
I think there should be an enquiry into Horizon systems and Fujitsu, to see just how they got these contracts in the first place. Have they got friends in high places?
It always has and money also buys you the best legal representation.
@@jjefferyworboys8138 These white collars criminals are getting the state to pay for the legal cost..... Because they did it at the job and therefore!!
@@JohnSmith-vy4lh Like what you said here..... But I have been seeing this system failures come to live in many cases and i do really wonder why do some companies get contracts on official delivery time and a time again ..... when they fail big time and are delayed big time again and again....
The distain those at the top had for these innocent post masters is truly horrific and all those responsible need to be prosecuted and jailed
Paula Vennells is a Cof E vicar or something like that. Not much can make what she has done any worse but that surely comes close. Added hypocrisy mingled with religious dogma.
This is bad. Very bad. Too many lives were permanently damaged by this scandal and I feel there will be no justice until the main players, both within the post office and fujitsu, are stripped of all financial gains and that they see jail time.
Innocent people took their lives over this, others were left with mental health issues and many lost everything they owned ! - That woman is despicable and should be held accountable 😡.
And for those still alive, she stole decades of their lives to protect her own image and arrogance.
Where did the financial discrepancies go? What was the incentive to cover this up? It's corruption. Investigate their finances and send Vennells to prison; she sent a pregnant woman to prison. She had no sympathy, and is deserving of none.
they had a seperate account that any imbalance would be shifted to and after a period of times (3 years I think?) it was written off as an accounting error and any monies held in that account ie Subpostmasters paying out of pocket in an attempt to make up a shortfall shown on the computer was re-absorbed into the main post office account...in other words any mony that could not be correctly allocated was effectively stolen by the post office after that waiting period was over..
Surely the real fraud is perpetrated by Fujitsu and senior members of PO who covered it up. Why are the Police not investigating? We hear about old murder cases and cold cases being re opened with a lot less evidence than we have here...
Apparently went into bonuses for PO execs. Horrific.
she lied specifically to put people in prison. She should get life.
Her, and all those who knew, need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They all need time behind bars, like the people they put behind bars. They also need to lose their livelihoods and become 'ordinary' people and see how it feels to struggle. Just like they made all those postmasters struggle
Why aren’t the police going into Fujitsu and arresting staff involved?
It looks like some people, somewhere were stuffing their pockets. What seemed like it may be a computer glitch now appears to be far more deliberate.
Surely there is a trail left of where the missing money was transferred too ?
its not so much that they were stealing money... they were fiddling with a defective system in an attempt to fix it in real time...that is the system was incorrectly showing money that did not exist to be in the account...no one was pocketing it as it was not there, what they did do was it seems try and hide that this was happening..by moving the issue onto one of user error rather than system error.
Where is all the real money that the sub-postmasters were made to pay to the PO over a decade?
@@glasgirlinozThe dramatisation surmised that it was shown as Post Office profits.
During those released tapes, not once was it mentioned about the harm being done to the victims. Downright disgusting! For every year that the Post Office has lied there should be the same in sentencing to prison, all those that knew about the issue and kept quiet while innocent people had their lives destroyed!
Because they don't care, they have never cared about the little people.
Why arent the perjurers in Prison? Ah corrupt Britain for us I guess.
The wrong people went to Jail
If she doesn't go to prison then justice does not exist in this country.
You are just waking up then so called justice is only for people who can buy it or have influential contacts
Time for Rishi to make good on his first No.10 statement......accountability, integrity , and professionalism at all levels.
There should be no second Frank Hester chances for Paula Venells and other PO executives. " I'm sorry " doesn't cut it.
Rishi is too busy handing out honours to his mates.
@@davidhardaker192 And government contracts to his family.
all those at the top within the post office need to be doing jail time for this !! plus at least one year for everyone wrongfully accused and jailed!!
and an additional 5 years for every person who took their own life because of this.
That would total over 900 years!
Sounds about right@@davefave4351
So second sight warned her not to deny that Fujitsu had access so she sacked them and ignored their warning. What did she expect the outcome to be?
So when is Vennells getting arrested?
Surely, this is a case of perjury, which can be prosecuted in a court of law. Those who knew and still took those poor sub-postmasters to court, must face jail time of their own!
I have other questions too though: What were the Fujitsu staff doing whilst they were in the live accounting systems? Were they stealing money? Why didn’t anyone at Fujitsu do anything to stop this from happening? It was abundantly clear that there were major issues. Where did all the money that the sub-postmasters have to pay out of their own pockets go? Why did it take SO long to sort out? Why is Paula Vennells not in prison?
I as much as I can work out the post money the is in simple form, all just payed the post offices bank account with bigger bank, the that where it is to this day, a surplice cash not should not be in tha count r accounts of heard post office, I wonder big bosses helped them self's to excess cash as bonus, as on one would not miss cash that should not be there, can not be explained as to how it got there in the first place, well until now anyway that is?
Did she lie under oath? I don’t know the detail but surely if she denied knowing about the software faults under oath she’s in trouble?
@@John64125 it would depend on wheter or not she was sworn in during her testimony in front of the parliamentary committee (if she was that would be pretty slam dunk) and wheter or not she signed any sworn legal documents (sadly, I think that would only hurt some lower ranking paper pushers, who would have to attest to some things regarding the data system fir the prosecutions).
Sadly I think the best possible outcome is that by manifestly misleading her employers she should have violated civil service code, and then they could hopefully yank her pension.
@@huginnmuninn2155 good input, thanks. I suspect like so many of these very senior people she will have been skilled at avoiding illegal acts. So much as we all hope for justice we might have to accept lesser punishment.
It continues to be a joy to live in a country where those who hold positions of real power so routinely seem to be terrifyingly cold-blooded sociopaths. Sociopaths who behave as though they were assured from the start that they would never be held accountable like the little people. And who, indeed, have always got away with it. Will that finally change now? They will fight tooth and nail to make sure it doesn’t. We shall see what happens.
Nothing will happen, it's the UK. Nothing ever happens to people with wealth, power and connections. This is what has alwaya happened in a "class based" country.
Sir Ed Davey ran for the hills as soon as the story broke and I understand he was the minister in charge at the time as part of the slimy Clegg coalition. Strangely silent on the subject for a politician.
@@theenigmaticgamerslimy Tory coalition, you mean. It was the TORIES IN CHARGE, not the Lib Dem’s, the Tories. Cameron was prime minister and he was a Conservative. They bought in £9k student fees etc, the Tories did, not Lib Dem not anyone else. The buck should have stopped with the Tories, but they managed to blame everything on the Lib Dem’s. There’s a lesson there for anyone wanting to get into bed with the devil.
You just need to look at the BLIAR and what he did
The clergy must be so proud
Perhaps she can become a prison chaplain
No, they are not proud - they are saddened that this bad apple is tainting the good work done by many good Christian clergy. Many instrumental in setting up Food Banks, Centres for the Homeless and fight against poverty and injustice. Don't generalise!
In every profession there are good and bad apples - Dr.Shipman didn't make every doctor a murderer!! Be fair, not blinkered!
Paula deserves jail time as a leader of the organisation and made fully aware of the situation but still clearly misleading everyone, any bonuses paid to her and the team should be clawed back or asserts seized as it would with any criminal gains.
The question in my mind after hearing all about this case is why on earth would Fujitsu need to access the system in the first place, and if they did access it then why would they change the balance?
I think they were aware of known errors within the horizon system, so to cover it up they would access the accounts and alter the figures to cover this up
@@canalboatingwell said. ❤❤❤
@@canalboatingand that's what's gunna condemn them. Becos the postoffice have said there was no money missing in the end. So this proves they knew the postmasters were ( INNOCENT ). Which proves there (GUILT ) simple as that.❤❤❤
that's expected they can access it, i work in the industry, the developer , reseller of any system such as this would need access for upgrades, troubleshooting, training and so on.
It would be really strange if they could'nt remotely access it. I on far less costly systems was doing this 20+ years ago, in fact it was common even going back to the 90's, 80,Pre Internet.
The PO would be fully aware and it would be part of the contract that Fujitsu could access it.
In my Job for instance , i can access multiple systems, multiple clients, all across the world , even on request by the client for a particular task or pre emptive maintence, upgrades etc.
I can do this from my home, and i am not Fujitsu
Its not that they were " covering it up " if " investigators had asked for the correct printouts, everything would be clearly set out. They didn't.
Meanwhile Fujitsu are being awarded the digital id tender...
What could possibly go wrong with that 😅
If there's such a thing as genuine British justice remaining in our country, ex P.O. CEO Paula Vennells should be arrested; questioned; charged if any unearthed crimes meet the appropriate legal threshold and then sent for trial at Crown court. If found guilty after a trial, one would imagine a custodial sentence would be the most appropriate punishment.
Last night (Easter Sunday) we in Aotearoa New Zealand saw the drama Mr Bates VS Post Office on TV 1. The content of that drama was discussed the following day on talk back radio. We are appalled at the corruption and cover-ups done by the UK Post Office. The Horizon computer system was evidently flawed. CEO of the PO, Paula Vennells, should have told the truth by laying the blame on Horizon and not upon innocent hardworking Post Masters and Post Mistresses. Mr Bates VS Post Office is a David & Goliath story where politicians, business leaders and big corporates shaft the little people, and to our amazement the little people fought back with plain truth.
Put her in prison
You can never give back those years of stress and horrific onslaught of honest postmasters who are now cleared, they should be very well compensated
How cruel these officials were to watch 900 innocent people persecuted and ruined. No sympathy, no mercy and a highly illegal campaign zealously pursued against small business people. Every person who told the sub postmasters the lie that they were the only one accused should be prosecuted. Not just the people at the top. " Just following orders" must not be an acceptable defense. It is depressing to think how many knew what they were doing and no brave whistleblowers among them for so many years.
With each new revelation this just gets worse. Nowhere to run anymore. She's guilty of having innocent people wrongly incarcerated. I can't see any other option than a lengthy prison sentence
Vennells et al did this because they believed they could get away with it. So we must examine why they thought that. Should long jail sentences ultimately arrive for P.O. executives then it might just make executives of other companies operating in the U.K. think twice about doing whatever they think they can get away with.
Why hasn't Paula Vennals been charged??
Evidence, the lack off.
This beyond a public enquiry now . There is more than reasonable suspicion of criminal conduct and that has to take precedent now . The enquiry should be suspended awaiting the criminal investigation outcome . The public must demand this.
It is difficult to see this as other than a criminal conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. Luckily for Paula Vennells, the bosses never have to face the consequences of their actions. This will all be swept under the carpet.
Can we add in false imprisonment/fraud/obtaining money by deception/perjury/false accounting? It's bingo crime day.
By not telling the courts that the system COULD be accessed remotely she perverted the course of justice which is a criminal offence so why has she still not been arrested?????
The Police need to start their investigation now and stop using the public inquiry as an excuse for delay - they risk being accused of a cover up to protect those who are part of the establishment. Vernell's et al need to experience justice and if found guilty they should not only go to prison for a significant time but also lose their post office public sector pensions and be made to pay back any bonuses that they received from any acts of lying. The public inquiry also needs to establish who in the civil service also knew about these crimes and hold them to account to. Justice needs to happen and been seen to have happened.
They have been "investigating" for the last 2 years or so.
Her Sunday job makes this all the more damning
There are plenty of Ratbags in all Churches, Plenty.
Remember the Post Office is state owned.
That's what makes it truly horrifying
Royal mail was always a government company...?
@@bn9969 It was privatized by Vince Cable.
That makes us all complicit then !
@@jjefferyworboys8138 No it doesn't. What is does do though is make us financially liable.
Vennells needs to either be sorted out for lack of oversight and inability to run the PO, or be arrested and charged with offenses that lead to wrongful convictions.
Like to see them in court!
Jail for Paula Vennells
guaranteed she wont face anything like justice
Of course she won't. People like her, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, and Cameron lie low for the dust to settle, then come out for their peerage.
Unless some white knight sponsors a private prosecution.
I think as this one is so much in the public domain on this one occasion justice may be served.
@@fasthracing I was thinking the same...outrage just won't go away, like a curry stain. But no time served, apart from the peasants. That's the problem with the UK...Still clinging to an archaic " class system " that most mature countries abandoned decades ago. Golly Gosh.
Sadly compensation in £££ does not erase the horror felt by innocent people being labelled as criminals with prison records. It’s now time that those responsible see what it’s like to be behind bars, for a long time.
Remote access in itself is not a problem. What really counts are unaudited remote transactions. Every single entry in a computer based accounting system must have an audit trail. No trail, no system integrity. Now combine that with system bugs, deficiencies and faults and we have an unsafe accounting system. But don’t worry anyone, Fujitsu have now been awarded the contract to provide a digital ID for British citizens.
Similar revelations will play out down the line regarding the "safe and effective" roll out
Is there something they're not talking about going on here? Was the remote accessing about stealing money and kick backs?
I thought that ages ago. The money wasn't taken from customers benefits,pensions, savings etc so where was it being taken from to show a loss? The post office must not know how much money it was making to not know what was missing and where from. Very dodgy.
Where did the money go? How did they prosecute anybody without tracking the stolen money? The horizon system showed a loss in money but the accounts or assets of the sub postmasters showed no increase. Maybe one or two could have hidden the money but all of them?
It was an unusual accounting system - no double-entry, no audit trail, just a black box that said "This is what should be in the till: never mind how I know". Add that to management that assumed postmasters were as crooked as they were and we see the result.
There was not physical money, it was just numbers on the screen that was supposed to represent what was in the till.
@@andrealilley3210 Same difference.
@@andrealilley3210It was physical money that the accused Sub Masters had to pay, that's why many went bankrupt. So where did that go?
Any normal person with an ounce of integrity would have understood that 900 sub postmasters involved in criminality was a ludicrous idea, but Vennells won't pay the price.Her type will have powerful friends & influence. I understand she was involved with the church so I suggest she dusts off her Bible starts reading it.She may believe there's a heaven but I suggest she prepares for the other possibility.
The lives ruined by this woman warrant at least 20 years of hers.
PV was listd as appearing before Inquiry on 22 May. The ITV clip mentions "July" has it been reschduled ?
They knew the scandal was coming. It is half the reason why Royal Mail began splitting all its services up into standalone companies as part of the Royal Mail group and ultimately becoming a private company.
I struggle to believe that UK government were not aware of this problem. Highly likely that The Post Office were doing their best to supress information reaching parliament, but there is no way that they would have kept it under wraps for over a decade.
There is a flip side to this, I set a business up in 2008. Paid my VAT & PAYE via the post office. I had receipt of payment by Post Office Counters Limited. The cheques cleared my account and I supplied HMRC with the proof and obtained the cheques back from the bank as proof. HMRC stated I had not paid HMRC and the money was still owing. £14K in total. Can I have my money back?
PAYE is illegal. It isn't profit. And HMRC = Hello Mr Roths Child. It doesn"t go back into the country ;)
I cannot get my head around Fujitsu having read and write access to the postmaster accounts. Why were the PO agreeable to a stunt like that? The great problem with putting people in jail is that Paula Vennells is not the only one but she does appear to have been caught red handed.
The whole meeting was how to avoid blame and keep convicting innocent people
No one is owning up. Saying I would like to say sorry is not saying sorry. The courts need to require a STRAIGHT ANSWER and need to keep asking the same question untill they get one.
I remember clearly a couple of times my screens go from the front office to the back office and move around changing my system in 2009 -2014 and after reporting discreprancies at end of account balance I saw it was being altered by Fujitsu the following morning, prior to start of business my Horizon system was not on UK time so they may have thought it was about 06:00hrs UK time.
This is absolutely mind blowing. What I don’t understand is why they were so hell bent on protecting Fujitsu. Why not just come out at the beginning? I’m guessing there must have been government pressure on Vennells to bury it.
There are no words to describe the depth of corruption that has occurred here..beyond disgraceful.
With the Post Office scandal and the similar Libor scandal, we really do live in a corrupt tin-pot country.
I hate how the accusations are pointed at "The Post Office" rather than at all the specific people involved. The criminal case should target them, not the Post Office which is now made up of different people. Vennells and others should be personally penalised for this, not the tax payer through Post Office pay outs.
Needs to be arrested and sent to prison. Despicable.
The Police are investigating this as a criminal complaint but have said it could take "years" before they finish and charge someone. A journalist needs to find out why it will take so long when there is so much evidence out there already that is more than a smoking gun. Real justice also involves speed and realistically there's no reason why it should take more than 12 months after the inquiry is finished to bring charges.
That woman has to be thrown in jail immediately. Anyone would’ve been arrested by now. Disgusting!
To fully understand the issue we have to understand that Postmasters were trusted, they had a position of authority. This was taken from them, they did everything to be a valued member of society and this was taken by corrupt liars. Yet those liars are not in prison for ruining lives.
Surely there is sufficient evidence to directly arrest, charge and remand Vennells. Remand would serve as a protective custody until trial which would be post public enquiry findings. There must be a real risk Vennells will dispose of her assets, abscond or self harm.
We illegally hold Julian Assage in prison for telling the truth. YET THIS WOMAN WHO HAS CAUSED SUCH MISERY WALKS FREE !!
Yes! He was a " whistle blower! For telling the truth he's imprisoned!! How ironic!
Venals must be prosecuted serve prison time and be stripped of pesions fined and give back all her income while working at the Post Office
SHE SHOULD SPEND YEARS IN JAIL FOR THIS
Vennels was unaffected by the horrific suffering and suicides. There is a price to pay and anything less than jail will be seen by the country as a sick justice system.
She's a Vicar now too!!
She was short listed to be the Bishop of London but got the chop.
Sin now, ask for forgiveness later.
She was a vicar at the time too!! She stood before a congregation knowing she was putting people in jail because of her lies.
@@sandygZ0035 And preached from the pulpit. Did she think the commandment 'Thou shalt not bear false witness' didn't apply to her?
@@boudicca9807 Would appear thus
you have to be an empathy deleted human being to subject honest people to such misery...
psychopath
If there is any remnants of Justice left in this country Vennells should be prosecuted and serve gaol time.
Its not an enquiry its a national cover up to protect top names that will never be disclosed
One very disturbing thing is the goverment still gives contracts to fujitsu,. These contracts are worth millions this has to be corruption. ?
The post office representatives are still bullying victims regarding compensation.
A good friend was told at the time to plead guilty otherwise she would lose her children. She plead guilty and still lost her youngest child anyway.
Now, they're telling her that because she plead guilty, if she takes compensation they will re investigate, and she may well end up having further criminal convictions. She's so traumatised by the whole thing she's not going for compensation because she's terrified.
There is no justice.
Some bloody whistleblower = honest person .............
Jail her now
Maybe have a trial first?
Hope she is watching, worrying and will soon be dealt with by the full force of the law at long last.
" full force of the law" that's a joke now isn't it?
It just amazes me that after all the evidence proving they covered it up, repeatedly, absolutely nothing has happened to a single one of them.
So who stole the money? If someone external to post office workers remote accessed these computers and took money, isnt it time Fujitsu workers were investigated??
Absolutely shocking ..all involved need to hand back all there bonus s and sent to jail
So if they stole the money how come NONE was recovered 🤔..red flag to any investigator 😮