Yeah, today i saw my first lissandra ever in 1.8k hours of play, about 2.5k games and 1 lissandra, 10x2,500 is 250000, which means there has been 1 pick, in 250000 possible picks of lissandra
her kit works, but only for bursting down one champion with her new subjugation passive, can cause a cascade of ice zombies but it requires that first kill, her playstyle is oddly like katarina's now but only difference is more often than not will come as her setting up ganks with her massive amounts of cc, she typically lacks the damage to 100 to 0 a decent player because it requires alot of damage setup, like poke > poke > poke > oh the enemy is 40% hp oh wait nope they have infinite sustain (most midlaners that get chosen now) viego, sylas, akali etc.
I main Lissandra since her release. For years i was one of the best listed Lissandra players on opgg and leagueofgraphs. First of all: Her dmg is insane. All the years her dmg was a bit underwhelming but over the last year riot buffed her dmg so much. She has no issues to oneshot a squishy target just with one item because of her crazy AP ratios. I have no clue why people think she is boring to play because she is one of few mages who has incredible playmake potential. She can carry games by her own with just on good engage. She is a lategame Monster. Her biggest weakness is her horrible early game. Her cooldowns are to high, mana costs very expensive since they reworked her passive and her base damage is also pretty low. She even has one of the best Lores of the Champions. She saves whole Runeterra
Because Point and click abilities are far less engaging than skillshots or skills with weird gimmicks, her E is pretty much the only room for creative play and there isn't any wall long enough to make it a hard decision,situations change but the entire game plan of lissandra stays always the same, throw your E and hope that you can unload everything on some poor soul. i
@@VarsVerum the fact that it wasn't intentional made the video better since you feel like you have to make up to it somehow and it results in a better video overall TL;DR mistakes happen but what you do with that mistake differs from person to person
“Riot doesn’t like damage classes to build tank” Riot : let’s let tanks like Malphite and Galio to build pure AP and do a ton of damage while still being tanky
But kiteable to some extent. Still, having a hard CC champion (say Zac) be able to solo kill an adc feels wrong. Their role is to, with a team, pin down high mobility/damage targets, disrupt aggro, and pick aggro when they can. Same with an ADC; it shouldn't be able to just pick a tank by himself without getting himself in a bad position. In a team game, an ADC and a Tank/Disruptor have those roles: Let the DPS be able to kill; let the Tank be able to set up kills for their ADC. ... Not freaking let the DPS die to a disruptor; or let a disruptor not have the tools to shake a DPS off.
I feel like League is really suffering from how Riot wants to give a chance for everyone to carry. This is just simply wrong, because League is a team game, and nobody should be able to truly carry, not even the assassins. (Their purpose is to take out a priority target and then die, but since the ADC or the control mage offers much more in a teamfight than them, it's now an advantageous 4v4. They have absolutely no business getting out once they jump into the enemy team, or doing CC wombo combos like a control mage.)
@@sandortojzan5409 See, the other side of that coin is that it's *very hard* to convince people to want to play a champion that can't do anything by themselves. For example, Sejuani (who, for all intents and purposes, we'll just say does a rather poor amount of damage by herself using a standard build for the sake of argument) is a very very hard engage tank. Her abilities let her go in, disrupt the enemies, and soak team damage with her passive while her own team follows up with the help of her E. And she has a fairly low playrate in solo queue, likely due to the fact that she's so team reliant. It's just generally not a fun grind to spend so much time to learn to play your champ to the best of your ability... only to have all your games be coinflips anyways because you may get a team that is skittish and can't commit to your calls. It's a lose/lose coin when looked at it from this perspective, because you either [have a game where everyone can take part individually, to the detriment of players who prefer traditional class archetypes], or [have a game with situations like, say, Overwatch, where few people want to play true supports]. Of course, there's in-between balance there, but League philosophy currently sits on the former side, where everyone *can* individually do something that feels more like tangible contribution than just utility - in this case, damage. Hilariously, it's almost the inverse - few people want to play the 'carry roles (jungle/bot)' because lots of champions that traditionally belong there only bring raw damage and can't perform their role properly by themselves until they've got their power spikes.
@@Kiroto50 what you stated is though... wrong. Tanks and disruptors can do whatever they want. They’ve got damage survivability etc. adcs just get one shot and can’t do much.
@@hoaang9455 soooooo like all lane with moron? Is there a different between top laner who push all the time, adc that position themselve badly, support who constantly mess up the wave, mid and jungler who is braindead?
But isn't she keeping Watchers asleep while finding a way to destroy them? She was on their side but after seeing destruction and void corruption, she made an intrigue to make them sleep and now she "feeds" them with dreams of iceborne.
@@BBSKStudio Yes, the Watchers are asleep but she actively needs to lure in iceborns for their dreams to keep the Watchers from waking up. She's getting weaker so she's just buying time to build an army or find something to destroy the Watchers.
@@bombkirby This is what I was thinking about the whole time but everyone says that "The Old Passive was Better", I don't get it, they LITERALLY increased her Mana Gain, Maximum Mana, Mana Regeneration and decreased the Cost of the Abilities after removing the old Passive. I mean, HOW can you set the Old one was better? I'm 100% with you.
I still remember when they did the biggest nerf on her(along with Garen, Heimer, and Zed) where they removed the bug that allowed them to spam taunts that interrupt each other. I still remember her "Sur- Sur- Su- Surr- S- S- S- Sur- Surrende- Sur-"
I do think her kit is one of a kind in League of Legends. Contrary to common belief, she is not as simple as press R and leave. Her abilities are very easy to predict, making her hard to play because engage is very crucial. :(
they honestly need to up the missile speed on her e that shit is beyond slow compared to alot of champs movement abilities and her ratios need to be slightly increased, it was alright before season 11 simply because survivability was easier with ROA and abyssal but with their removals she's essentially just a weak squishy all in mage now. I played an Aram with her and got a lucky quadra early game but after that quadra it took me like 8 mins before I got another kill simply because my damage was completely negated as soon as any of them built merc treads or a null-mantle.
@@MrToren01 i think shes one of those champs you have to invest alot of time into cuz your E is slow yes but if you can play mindgames with it and etc target it vs their adc but then swtich to the jungler who did not expect to be targetet can turn thigns around.
Lissandra is my all time favorite champ! Her lore, design, and kit hit every mark for me and I played her nonstop when she first came out. I still use her often but she doesn't feel as good to play from her initial release. I build her more tanky lately because trying to build all dmg is too frustrating to play most of the time. Still love my ice queen tho
@@valesalsal6363 Everfrost > Hourglass > Abyssal > Demonic is my go to with her rn. Then depending on the other team I'll go Morello/Banshee or sometimes Thornmail (lol) Usually end with a Void Staff.
As a Liss main I just want the Q and AA range to be a little bit longer, but to have the free skill cast back in her passive along with the current one is also nice. Either one is fine.
@@RelentlessBG true. Some might say that Liss needs to bring manaflow brand, but it's still not enough for her to compete with early game's meta nowadays. Not to mention she's really hard to triggers manaflow passive because of her ranges.
@@ΙάσοναςΛημναίος It’s hard to kill a Yasuo at 50% health with one combo, and as a burst mage who has to engage, you need the damage to kill them, otherwise you die. In terms of defense, she has about the same as your traditional burst mage, but she lacks the range and therefore needs something to compensate.
@@jacquelynthompson5346 Tbh I don't struggle bursting a Yasuo even at 100% hp. Lissandra has enough damage to one shot a squishy and survive with self ult and Zhonyas or just Zhonyas if she has to ult an enemy
to me, i feel like she just doesn't do enough damage. even when i played against lissandra, her spells felt like being hit by a pebble, although she can be nasty if she manages to lock you down. but her recent buff made me remember about her and i was thinking about picking her up again cuz c'mon locking people down is fun
@@ratspew932 easy short version most you follow the pro build and playstyle of off tank low damage build . play her cross between ahri/katarina see enemies health bar disappear. shes a aoe mid range monster.
I think Liss suffers from nostalgia. Liss is way more effective as a follow up than engager, but since she was godlike at engaging back in the day, most people think about her that way. Even her new passive is about following up on a kill: It does a TON of damage, but it's slow and obvious. So if liss waits for a good engage from a teammate that kills or almost kills someone, her follow up will mop up the fight HARD. Everfrost is pretty good for that, as the active can be used instead of W or R while waiting for the engage to happen
I love Lissandra and this basically sums it up. Her early game feels awful and she only really shines when she has like 2-3 items, which kinda sucks. However, if you play smart and have a lane advantage, even in the slightest, then she can absolutely snowball and no one can keep her in check. But if she's behind, even a little, she will continue to struggle and that gap will only widen because she doesn't have the damage in her kit.
When i started playing lissandra the one deceptively difficult thing for me was knowing the perfect time to all in with the best outcome because sometimes your teammates cant followup that well. And i think that is one of the reasons why many give up on her after trying her for the first time because they always die after an all in.
As a lissandra main. I think the fact that she fits such a unique role and has a strong identity in the game as the hard aoe cc engage mage is wonderful. It's the goal of league to have every champ be unique and bring something new to the game while also being able to fit a class. So I think all her abilities and her new passive are all well and good. It's just that the game has changed around her and like said in the video she is terribly subject to indirect nerfs through the item updates and the mobility and damage creep in this game. Even though I'm 8 months late on my comment the problems in this video have only gotten worse for her since then.
Back before the honor system if you sat through the victory screen lissandra would monologue about the story of the abyss. Howling abyss and lissandra were released during the freljord event. It's very fitting.
@@SoulDevoured Too bad that monologue isn't canon anymore... I mean I'm glad she's not just pure evil anymore, but that monologue... uhhh, so incredibly preformed
Her new passive shouldn't be reverted as it heavily compliments her playstyle better than the previous one, before the issues you mentioned were more relevant , now the enemies have to choose to either continue committing with her ice ghosts around or completely disengage out of them. She's in a better spot than her pick rate suggests, she's just underplayed
My friend is a Lissandra one trick and holy hell does he make her seem broken. I could feed a laner and think they're unkillable, then he comes in a pops them. Love that she's getting attention now
Lissandra really doesn’t need a buff. I play her quite a bit and its she is amazing. 1. Its near impossible to get ganked so long as your sensible. 2. You can still delete enemies so long as you take ignite. 3. In teamfights having a fed enemy is basically a non treat since can chain cc them for so long. 4. I always build xhonyas and banshees veil after everfrost. This makes you more than tanky enough to fullfill you purpose to make the most “threatening” enemy champions life miserable by turning them into a completely useless block of ice. 5. Her passive is a terror in teamfights.
i personally love her new passive since it gives her great dmg when her spells are on CD after she has used her combo and got out lov on HP she can stand far back and still spawn ice ghost when your team cleanes up after u
Something I've long advocated for Lissandra to get is some sort of passive that converts spellcasts into shields. Either granting her a Shield based on enemies hit, or based on mana spent. Nothing to make her a full tank, but she NEEDS something to allow her to even exist in melee.
Honestly. I wish she had tankier base stats at the cost of slightly less scaling. I would also love if her ult healing also scaled with bonus Hp, bonus MR, and bonus armor instead of only AP.
2 years later and Lissandra was finally given enough love to be played as a Mid Laner and Support on the Worlds stage. She quickly became my favorite champion to play after her passive rework.
Liss main here, she honestly is in such a weird place because i LOVE her new passive and it's so much more in line with what her character is themed around and like.... however, it splits power from her other abilities and makes her so much more mana hungry. her kit and abilities are focused around her original champion design, and while she hasn't changed much in that regard since release. Her core balance still NEEDS that mana cost passive to function. To break it down, She can't have high burst damage because she has a lot of easily spammable and hard to dodge skills, but she can't spam her abilities anymore because she'll run out of mana quickly. And because she can't have high burst damage she needs to build durability, but if she builds durability she won't have mana to spam abilities and if she builds mana AND durability she won't have damage. and the biggest issue is that with her IMBA skills, fixing just one of these things could make her EXTREMELY viable again to the point of her just needing to be nerfed once more.
Look my man, I do respect your opinion, but I Also do Play quite a lot of Lissandra and I Almost never encounter Mana Problems, and when I do have them they vanish when ManaFlow Band fully activates. All the other things you said I absolutely Agree, she's on a thin line between being irrelevant or being Broken, but I don't really think the Mana is the Problem, not since they buffed everything about the Mana on Lissandra: Ability Costs, Mana Regen, Maximum Mana per Level...
@@emanuelevigo9864 Her Mana problem can be fixed with manaflow but she's still need to hit her ability for manaflow to fully stacks and it's a pain for her early game(harder when facing range champion). still, if she's got her free skill cast back, she'll likely be a more comfortable picks for newer players. As a long time Liss main it's really sad that even after the mana buff, she;s still struggle a lot at everything else these dayd.
@@TheHerzLoz So you're saying that Lissandra with the Added Buffs to the Mana AND the Old Passive would be better for her? OK, I can see that, but what about the Insane Team fight Potential her New Passive has? We can't just Dump that for a Passive that existed only Because Old Lissandra used to have much Worse Mana Problems right?
@@emanuelevigo9864 no. I never say anything bad about her new passive. I do like it a lot actually. What I really want for her is her old passive ALONG with the new one. I'm already aware that it might be too op, so I think more longer cool down for a free skill, or just every 3-4 cast will free, either one is fine since she is one of the worst base dmg mage in game despite being one of the short range mages(also low base hp than Leblanc or Syndra for some reasons). She really needs a bit more of advantage for early games.
@@TheHerzLoz And I never said you said anything bad about the New Passive, I just said what you did. And that would be that having her Free Cast back would make her more Comfortable. But then having her Old Passive would mean that the New one has to go. You also said that you Liked the direction her New Passive has gone too but just now have you told me that you think they should co-exist. Then i can see the Problem you're telling me as true, so maybe Liss should get some Rework done to her since the way her ability interact are kinda Counter Intuitive: One of the Lowest Ranges as a Mage (Similar to Annie); One of the Lowest Damages for a Mage (Unlike Annie wich is one of the Strongest in fact of Damage); No defensive Options In her Base Kit despite being Close Range, no Sustain, and Low Base Health and Resistances.
I've been an Anivia main for 7 years but Lissandra has been my #2 for a lot of that time. My desire to play her as often as I used to has been waning lately though and you did a fine job of describing why, which can somewhat be summed up with one main issue: She's very difficult to play from behind. If I could pick one thing to have changed about her it would be the passive rework because it took that problem and rubbed it in like an insult: If your team is having difficulty killing anyone, Liss may as well not have a passive. Ugh. They meant it to capitalize on her teamfight utility but she's almost best as an assassin who avoids them sometimes now because of the points made in this video and in that case, too, the passive change tends to be unhelpful. I desperately miss being able to outplay people by using the free mana timing to convince people in the early/early mid game that I can't ult/fight them due to being out of mana then turn them into a corpse popsicle. Having that back may as well be a nitpick but losing it sure killed her already-limited outplay potential which mostly relies on peoples' ignorance and underestimating how much damage they would take. I'm really disappointed....
I know I'm kinda late to the party but I've been maining Liss for 5 years and I thought I should give my opinion on this: You're goddamn right. 3:17 not only is her E very slow and predictable, but it also has a 24s base cooldown. Keep in mind that E ist maxed last, so you're sitting on those 24s cooldown until you reach like level 13. On top of that, her base movement speed is pretty terrible compared to other mages. 3:47 there have been two solutions to this in the past. Back when her passive gave her free spells, it was possible to build Protobelt without having mana issues, but with her current mana issues it's pretty much impossible to play Protobelt. Also Ludens does a lot more damage now and you miss out on a lot of damage by not building Ludens. The other solution was using hexflash. One could channel Hexflash while the claw was travelling, and flash after the blink. This was also patched out a while ago. Riot just doesn't want us Liss players to have fun 5:40 This is so goddamn true. If you build full damage like an Orianna, you're most likely still getting outdamaged. If you build tank like a swain, you do 0 damage, but still blow up easily because you have no built in tankyness in your kit. It's just funny how champions like DIana and Galio are both tankier and do more damage than Liss. Liss on her own is just straight up weaker than most midlane champions. 7:00 I disagree. Lissandra has a good variety of viable keystones. Electrocute is really good to blow up targets. Dark Harvest is an insane teamfighting rune. Comet can work really well in some matchups to bully out the enemy and win lane. 8:23 there's multiple reasons why carrying with Liss is really hard. The lack of damage is just one of them. With how predictable your engage is, it's really hard to find that one good fight you need. Especially because you have little room for error because of how long your E CD is. Also you're still squishy. One mistake, or just one well placed CC spell from the enemy team, and all the lead you built up was for nothing. 12:24 this would be a decent solution. Being able to build Proto into Zhonyas would make it a lot easier to catch people, and it would give Liss a more clear playstyle. Also it would make it easier to get into a teamfight to get that juicy 5 man combo, but without Ludens it would be a lot less damage. Overall it's a trade I would be willing to make Okay this all sounds like I'm just a salty Liss main who's asking for buffs, but I just wanted to give my opinion on the points mentioned in the video. Liss is still by far my favorite champion and I love playing her. There's just nothing more fun than seeing an enemy suffer while you stun them for 5 seconds, or getting that one juicy teamfight where just everybody in the enemy team blows up. if I had to decide how to fix Liss's design, there's 2 things that come to my mind. Number one would be reverting Liss's passive so she can build Proto+Zhonya and pushing her into a catch/assassin type of playstyle with Electrocute. Number 2 would be going back to the old Rod of Ages+Zhonyas days and make her a scaling battlemage similar to Swain or Vladimir. She would probably need something like making her thralls do damage over time similar to morde passive so she can be played with conqueror, as well as mana adjustments. Then she maybe could build Rift maker into Zhonyas. PS: did I mention that Yone E, one of the most broken spells in the entire game, has 2 seconds less cooldown and no mana costs. Pls rito buff Liss E
Hello, I'm a Lissandra main and watching this video I think you failed to realize one of her biggest strengths is that literally all of her damage is AOE. Sure, her 1 target burst potential isn't as high as someone like Lux, Zoe or Leblanc, but her damage and cc instead can literally change the course of a fight. It's all about knowing when to go in and where to go in, during a fight people rarely pay attention to the claw, or even if they see it coming they don't react fast enough to run from it. A good lissandra will position herself in the middle of the enemy team and she will burst down on all of them, directing her Q to as many enemies as possible, but focusing on the squishiest one of them. As procking at least 1 of your passives is vital, your passive will do the follow up damage during your Ult self cast and Zhonyas. Even if your team doesn't follow up, Lissandra alone can take 1 to 3 enemies in a 1v5 if she positions herself correctly. Not many champions can do that. I've found most people who give up on her don't know her strengths and will try to play her as if they were someone else. They think just going in alone and ulting an enemy will land them the kill, but Lissandra can do the same amount of damage if she ults herself instead. That's why her W is an instant snare, so that her ult damage can follow up as it grows slower. You dump all your damage and finalize with a self ult, the enemies are vulnerable during your stasis because your passive and your team can follow up, and you can prolong this stasis with Zhonyas. While this combo can be telegraphed, i've found that in the chaos of team fights this works fine. If anything, I'd just like to say Lissandra isn't the strongest character in the game, and I do agree she needs a buff to a certain degree. But from my perspective, most people fail to realize her true strength and give up on her too quickly, a good lissandra player can dictate how the game goes, her roaming potential can turn the fight in jungle, toplane and botlane, and in teamfights she excells, even on her own if fed. Even if she's behind, her kit helps against problematic enemies like a fed Zed, Yasuo or Yi. This is why no one complains with having a Lissandra in their team, she alone if done correctly can provide so much to a team.
I absolutely love playing Lissandra, I just think she needs a slight bump in her own power level to encourage solo plays in more situations. Even a slow on her next auto-attack when she Q's would be extremely helpful for her solo kill pressure. Sometimes she feels a bit too much like a support; in that she often needs help to kill people in mid-late game imo.
I play a lot of Lissandra and Kayle. Liss shares a lot of the strengths and weaknesses as Kayle. Both of them scale impressively well, but are heavily reliant on items and levels rather than their kit. The make or break point for Liss and Kayle is whether or not the enemy team bullies them pre-6. All of Liss's spells have incredibly high CDs in the early game and cost a lot of mana to cast (even her Q, which at level 1 has like, 8-9 seconds of CD) and are short ranged to the extreme. This opens you up to a long trading period where many characters can essentially run at you without fear to auto-attack or use an ability. You don't play your lane, you SURVIVE it until Level 6. Even then, without your core items, it's difficult to net a kill on your laner with an all-in. They have to already be below 70% HP from poking, or you need assistance from your jungler to close up the final 10-20% damage required. Whereas a Zed with a Serrated Dirk is perfectly capable of blowing you up already. I find that Lissandra excels in enemy comps that have a lot of Melee champs, but if the enemy team has one or two characters like Xerath, God help you because you will never be able to make a safe engage. You can potentially get an incredible 3-4 man engage, but it's almost inevitable that you will die in the process. Lissandra is a character that thrives in the chaos of team fights, and her entire kit is around helping her team win fights. But in the madness of solo queue, it's hard to tell how reliable your team-mates will be until the first fight breaks out, or if they'll even understand how fight oriented Liss's kit is. I've at least found a method to solve most of Kayle's issues by playing her as an ADC with Fleet. Kayle's scaling works with both AD and AP, so you can always itemized into whatever damage type your team lacks. It turns out that pairing up a support with a hyper-carry means someone can watch your back in lane while you farm up and scale. I've yet to find a comfortable solution to Lissandra's issues. I tried her out as a support for a while, with variations on Electrocute, Comet, Guardian and Aftershock. None of them feel just right, and there's always 1-2 glaring weaknesses for every strength. Poke mage supports make it impossible for her to trade healthily. Tank supports like Alistar and Rell ignore your low base damage, and at best, you can only really peel for your team. Peeling CAN be effective as the core strategy, but the low range of Q-W means you have to essentially sit on top of and baby-sit someone to peel well. Other characters just do the job of supporting, peeling and outputting early game damage far more efficiently. I really enjoy Lissandra, and I intend to keep playing her. But every time I select her, I get this nagging feeling that Lissandra is holding me back. I see far better success on other characters in her same class type, but I don't find them entertaining the way I do Liss. Here's hoping that the Liss buffs in the coming patch address at least one of her core issues, like early CD on her Q or slightly cheaper mana costs. She just needs SOMETHING to help her early game.
Zed is actually quite good into Lissandra levels 3-9. She has almost no tools to deal with your WEQ combo. Yes her R is very strong, but if you can poke her with WEQ enough, you can force her to take very bad self Rs and kill her or force bases afterward.
İ mean even if you lose lane ,zed would look to death mark your adc so you just stay by them and point click cc him, he can't dodge R with untargetable too
In my opinion, the best way to play lissandra is either to play Full AP scaling and go for all ins whenever your teammates are ready for a gank. Or play her as a tank in the early game but start to play really aggresively once she hits her power spike
Been running relentless and it’s really nice on her giving her 410 outside of combat easily -- early roams are great to stack a dark seal couple that with mejais and cosmic drive and THEN a protobelt or everfrost reach-- and you’re like the smooth criminal truck meme: “YOU’VE BEEN HIT BY, YOU’VE BEEN STRUCK BY, .... -TRUCK”
A return of her old passive on top of the current kit with some better base damage on her base abbilities at the cost of worse ap scaling, a buff to her base mana regen, base hp (for whatever reason hers is lower than Le Blank, Syndra or Orianna despite needing it way more), hp regen (for sustain in lane, she gets none from items and runes wich is very rare nowadays) and maybe a redirection of power from her E to the Q and W would probably fix her. She is an insanley fun champ to play (tho her animations are starting to show their age) and I've tried to get back into playing her but her early game is just atrocious.
If I can survive past level 6 and get her core items, she is an absolute BLAST to play. But sweet jumping F U C K is she so easily abused in the early game. Lack of range, high CDs and low base damage means she can't compete with a majority of mid-laners.
I remember the same issue with Tahm kench. His damage scaled off of health which made him really good into everyone because health isn't as conditional as armor or Magic resist, but it was scaling off of his ultimate at a big rate, so they made it his normal passive and significantly lowered the damage
1. Nerfed to oblivion by huge damage nerf and mana cost increased 2. Used to be a burst mage with high dmg and ap ratio, nerfed and ended up being a kite mage that can't kite because of her low range and movement speed. 3. Removed mana regen passive and gutted her damage by shifting her burst into her passive making her dependent on getting kills with low ap damage. 4. Turned into a teamfight mage with a suicidal role because of her low range.
Honestly, Lissandra just needs a way to make her a more unique champ that can at least carry than be something like Malzahar. Anivia had a similar problem where she felt too outdated and weak, that she felt like an anti carry than an AP scaling monster. Hope Riot gives her more attention.
Riot is clearly going in the wrong direction. Instead of releasing a new broken, out of caracther champ they should just rework the outdated Champs like lisandra, anivia, nasus or teemo. But I guess the money speaks louder
@@Tomas1999Benfica Anivia's rework has made her feel more playable, I feel no need to change her. Nasus is fine, good low ELO pick if you need it. Lissandra and Teemo, maybe
@@vinnyle0 I mean every champ can be good in low elo if the player has at least some kind of understanding about game. I think the goal should be always to make a balanced champ, a yone player will very likely destroy a similar skilled nasus player. Just like trynda, shaco, teemo, singed, rammus etc
I was a liss main, the old mana passive + the wave clear, gave you the possibility to opt out of laning like talon does. I prefered it a lot. Gives you a way out of impossible long range match ups and let you be proactive
I’ve played alot of Liss throughout her coming out and being changed, and personally I think the item changes were her biggest hit, they added some items that really help her, like Everfrost and Horizon Focus, but after the nerfs to her base damages I think she is just undertuned right now. Buffing her base damages early especially on her Q, but leaving her late game base damages the same would help greatly in getting her to a point she can get the items to burst, the other option would be lowering her cooldowns on her Q and W, with her CC she can kite people well, so having lower cooldowns would let her skirmish a bit more and not rely so heavily on the instant burst. Her passive I feel needs some adjustments because in lane, she will never have any use for it, so adding a second part to the passive like mana regen or a defensive option like Malz or Sej could help her survive a bit longer, while something like making it proc on cannon minions with reduced damage or range might be an effective option to keep higher damage potential.
IMO I think the only problem with lissandra is that the speed of which her e flies is very slow. Everything else in her kit seems okay. Passive is very useful during teamfights in assisting with burst dmg and slows as with her q. Her w and r are also good for cc-ing enemies or saving herself in a pinch. Her e is just too slow that even walking would be faster for you if you throw out and wait to activate e on max distance. Either way, I'm not entirely sure about that since I'm not a lissandra main and it's just my observation to as what I know and seen so far about her.
I play lissandra when I'm in a 5 stack premade because she is so satisfying when you can actually get her kit off. Her passive is the reason I have so many pentas on her.
Though Lissandra is one of my oldest mains, I am not a great lissandra so this might be a bit closer to what the average player notices. One of the issues she used to have prior to her passive change was her really high mana cost on her Q, which was at 80 from rank 1. Meaning that spamming it to try and poke someone down would cause you to run out of mana quickly. And while her old passive did allow a free cast, it had quite a cooldown, and at the time her base damage and scaling was both worse, meaning you'd need to cast more to reach the same amount of damage you do now. I'm not quite certain if she had high mana cost because of her passive, or had her passive because of her mana cost. Either way it was a very uninteresting passive and the new passive is massively preferable. As was said she has good scalings, but horrible base damage. Combined with her very low range means putting out your damage is difficult and more than likely causes you to take a lot of damage in return. So what you want is ganks. Due to her cc a gank is damn near guaranteed to succeed, especially if the ganker in question also has cc. However the thing you notice in solo q is that people don't tend to cooperate well, if at all. Thus you can be left stranded in lane against an opponent you know you would have a hard time killing yourself, but would be an easy kill with some assistance. Which can be rather frustrating. However the bigger issue in season 11 is that due to the mythic items getting an early game lead is more important than ever before, something that is incredibly difficult to do as lissandra by yourself, due to as forementioned low base damage and low range. Which brings me to matchups. A lot of laners, most ranged laners out range you by quite a bit, mages and the like. Meaning they can poke you out of lane, causing you to fall behind and etc. However as mentioned due to Lissandra's reliable cc she should be a good counter against melee champions such as assasins right? Theoretically yes, but in practice less so, especially this season. A lot of the assassins you'll face in mid have some ranged ability with an equal range to you if not longer, meaning they can poke you back. Another problem against melee is that while Lissandra's W is an instant root, it is a very low range one. Meaning most champs that you can root are already in their effective range anyway. And in most mid assassins cases, they can get on you quick, meaning that when you root them, they are already on you, and at that point a root isn't going to prevent them from dealing their damage. And with how slow her E is you are unlikely to be able to escape the burst either. Her W is generally insufficient to protect her from assasins properly While her Q has some range when it hits a minion, using that extra range also tends to mean pushing which leaves you a lot more vulnerable. You lack the range to trade properly with mages, and you lack the damage and tankiness to trade with assasins. These issues are easily offset with some ganks as it allows her cc and engage to shine, however that requires cooperation and that tends to be lacking in SoloQ. Lissandra works better in a slower more controlled game, right now however she is simply not able to keep up with most of her opponents by herself. She's one of them mages with the most abilities to protect herself, and yet she's also one of the most vulnerable. Like I said while I do main her, I am not a great Lissandra player. These are just issues that I think turn off most people from playing her.
I mean you’ve hit the nail on the head with “she’s an all in champ/engage champ”. You have to have a team that can wombo combo when you go in or liss can follow up etc etc. it’s hard for her to lose lane as well since she’s pretty strong level 2 and even stronger level 3 with electrocute. It’s quite easy to snowball; however, late game it relies on her one pick (a carry) to cc down and try to survive. I love to play her against assassins or hard engage because you can peel, fake engage with E, bait them with your ult into a full combo. She’s just very versatile; as you stated though, her short range on Q, W, and R hurt her. She’s fun and I love her, but it sucks that all these New champs can easily counter all of her abilities.
Her passive should interact with her cc.. Something like: When LIssandra CC a target/targets, she gets +X damage in her next spell. This may cause her to be way too op, but sure she would be fun for a couple of patchs :D
easy short version most you follow the pro build and playstyle of off tank low damage build . play her cross between ahri/katarina see enemies health bar disappear. shes a aoe mid range monster. watch elsa of garendel to see how high her damage if used correctly.
Liss main here! If you use her correctly you can be very usefull and do so much damage. (I generally do most damage in games with liss) but you have to scale to do some damage. She has really good scalings but bad base damage
Watching this when it came out led me to trying to play her support. She can't follow up so my plan was to take her support and lock down. From this videos release, I did it for about 4 weeks afterwards. And basically this is what I learned: Lissandra isn't great anywhere. In the support role, she can truly shine with Imperial Mandate, and a long range ADC like Cait, Varus, Sivir/Akshan. You basically also have to take Font of Life bc your utility is going to suffer once you've blown you load. Her passive is CRAZY useful in 2v2 botlane trades because a good kill can guarantee you enough time to go lock down the other, forcing their flash, heal, exhaust or whatever. Assuming you survive. There aren't great mythic options to give her defense. Her ratios are awesome, and gives her the chance to be a late game powerhouse, you feed your ADC with your CC and then get to feast on the glory later, but I honestly wouldn't recommend it. If you want some serious CC and crazy ratios, play seraphine and rush rylais.
I feel like they should change her passive again. I've never really seen the ice zombies she makes be useful. Maybe they could make her passive similar to RoA, with scaling Mana and Health increases after a certain period of time or levels.
I think they just need to increase her Q range a bit, or maybe increase the range after it extend. Honestly I feel like her Q was so short, even shorter than Malzaha.
Those ice zombies are a great way to secure a multi kill. They can more than half health a squishy target and are really disruptive in a teamfight. It's just such a specific passive that can't be used much. It only procs on a takedown and it's use is very situational.
I think her passive makes her quite powerful scaling disruptor defensive "counter-dive" mage into mid game to clean up enemy assassins that love to go 1 for 1 just for a dive , if she's build with Lyandri's /sorc , hextech protobelt / as core and then situationaly
As a Liss main, the problem isn’t her damage, she can one shot an entire team if given the setup, which is the problem. But with protobelt that problem is mitigated slightly. As for runes I always take electrocute. Also I feel like building full damage is the only way to play her since it is the fun way (can I just say her ratios are disgustingly high). Why need survivability when you one shot the team while in 5s of stasis with self R and zhonya. :/
Just increase the range of her q, reduce its damage but make it do more damage the closer you are to someone, or make it do more damage to targets behind the first one. Then increase her e travel speed. These seem like super easy buffs that wouldn’t break her.
2 things 1 would change. First, her q range. If you hit something it flys quite a distance, but otherwise it's to short. (Trades are more difficult 2. Speed up her e and passive. The passive only hits you if you dont know her.
Do you mind, if i translate your video and post it in a group ? I'm afraid some people might not understand English, cause it's not our primary language I'll leave the credit to your videos.
I used to main Lissandra and she was really popular back in season 4-5, together with heavy cc champ like Jarvan. But I feel like over time she does not get worse as a single champion, it's just that other champs could do better than her. There are tanks who could have as much as cc as her and stay longer in fight, while there are other mages who provide better cc at much longer distance, not to mention the champs with spell shield are much more prevalent now, making her cc kinda useless. All in all she's kinda clunky as a mage and squishy as a top laner, with such slow movement speed she could not really roam either. I hope Riot would buff her as a tank or increase her speed, just buffing her damage is not solving the core issue.
Her new passive is shit. It's just shit. The "zombie" moves too slowly and has a long delay before actually dealing damage. The only time i got hit by this thing is after i came back to the game from a 3 year break and didn't even realize the thing. Plus it doesn't even do anything in a 1v1. That's a really bad thing for a solo laner.
Zilean's passive doesn't do anything in a 1v1. A lot of Lissandra's damage potential is looked behind getting takedowns because her damage output is soooo reliable. Unless the enemy takes cleanse or buys qss, there are very few midlaners who can deal with flash RQWE ignite Q. She doesn't even have to hit a skillshot to pull it off.
@@thomasaquinas399 I think Zilean should also get a passive that works for himself too , however Zilean is obviously a supportive long range mage while Lissandra is a hard engage burst mage. A supportive mage should not have great 1v1 potential. A hard engage burst mage that has to go melee range to use her full combo definitely needs to have a passive. Nobody is going to get hit by that thing in a teamfight unless their pc just freezes or as in my case , they come back to the game after years and don't even notice it the first time they see it. That was the only time i ever got hit with it.
Her old passive just gimps her and makes her mana problems even worse because they made her mana cost huge to compensate for that occasional free spell
Her stun only does something if she casts it with her ulti. It by itself does nothing. Basically she has to use her ulti to get a stun so that she hopes she can kill someone or have someone else do it. No one should have to use their ulti to get a reliable stun.
A funny thing you mention here is reliace on items. Complete tangent but i have found Corki to just always weasle himself into the meta, befause everytime one if his builde gets nerfed, he can abuse a new OP item. I have seen corki meta build include Immortal shield bow/liandries/ludens/riftmaker/divine sunderer. Almost no other champ can just swap around muthics like that and still be effective at all, let alone be a meta champ.
To be honest if you're getting used to her you don't need a single defensive item, because of your timing and positioning. If done correctly you just steamroll the enemy team 100 to 1 in 1 second.
pro of Lissandra: She can get a pentakill even after dying (I actually pulled off a triple after death but sadly no more, ignite popped off my initial target and the ghosts killed the other two)
Her biggest nerf came when they removed her ability to taunt spam. I miss just annoying my enemies with an endless spam of "i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i"
I mained lissandra for two years. And I have a feeling you see lissandra as a burst mage. Thats just one side of the coin. Lissandra is actually a switzer knife of mage subclasses as she posses the means of locking down the target. Diving the enemy team. Outduelling fighters similary the way the battlemages do due to her kiting and spacing potential along with cc and self sustain which heals you over half your health if used properly. And a zone disruption perfect for counterpicking most of enemy assassins. With lissandra you are basically main or secondary team engage which can help you complement a team which has no tank to start a fight. With your area disruption you donť always need to dive into enemy team just because you can. Many times its way better to babysit your carry and disrupt any diving champions if someone in your team is your win condition. If you need a solo kill you just go for E protobelt R and stunlock the enemy to oblivion. If you feel rotating bot its very easy as your very realiable cc and flanking potential over walls is guaranted gank if your botlanes are somewhat equeal. If you are a good lissandra you know there are many build paths dependent on facing mages, assassins or even slayers in the mid lane, but overall you don't go defensive. If you play solo queue you need to deal damage and make good macro decisions on where to be at the exact time. If you just go defensive and expect you will be useful for your team, because of the utility lissandra has you are wrong this is not how soloqueue works. Once you have first complete item you can solokill any champion who does not build defensive If they do then you simply need to decide if you need magic pen or if that MR stacking zed who plays very even match to you forces you to have armor to outduel him. The only efficient counterpick to lissandra is defensive, enchanter, bruiser, tank ish composition in champ select (or Xerath fuck that champion). As lissandra has means to kite many bruisers, but struggles to fight multiple high health targets as you can't space against all of them. The key to learning playing lissandra properly in solo queue environment is to learn how to play easily on mana and being almost glasscanon playmaker. And how to aproach every situation as you should know as assassin who is the enemy priority target and from where and how to flank / destroy it. As a tank you should know when to engage and how to setup fight for your team. As toplaner you should know who you can outduel in sidelane. And as a support you should know what is your win condition and if it is just better to peel for your vayne who just hit her powerspike. If you play this champion with only knowing that you are a slow E lategame bomb delivery you probably play lissandra wrong and only scratched the surface she is a very macro reliant champion who rewards players with team comp and win condition thinking and proper positioning, decision making as your area disruption can be used many different ways.
As a fan of Lissandra's design in general, my biggest issue is how she plays in the lane. Purchasing a tear may be a decent choice early on, but as you play the lane with the lack of a corrupting pot, you'll eventually get out poked by most champions. On top of that, you lack the sustain and DoT that corrupting pot provides to equal out the trade. That being said, taking ignite would benefit you by providing kill pressure. But this will force you to exclusively win the lane and purchase a lost chapter, or lose the game. With the lack of TP, you are barred from the opportunity of a gank to set your side lanes ahead, or to lane efficiently as you eventually lose control of the lane, due to the lack of mana to pressure the enemy without jungle presence. Bringing back her old passive is indeed a great thought, but without your current passive to slow the enemies in and apply pressure of a possible burst during team fights, you would have much less of an opportunity to flee with your only mobility tool on cooldown. This negates the reason of raising her AP ratios in the first place, which was to burst and peel away from the enemy, especially after they nerfed Aftershock AND removing the AP durability items.
what you said about malz when he surpesses also surpress himself i think also applies to Lissandra. Fixes: have W interact w/ E (also casted where E is) & R (larger aoe), allow her to cast abilities while she in her R, what if they went back to cdr but kept haste which would then effect how fast spells are casted/travel? rework Q so when targeting above self changes into aoe & rework E so is faster, lower cooldown and guide like Yuumi but when targeting above self is slower an higher cooldown but send out multiple circling outward from her, recast go to one targeted by mouse. this would play into a surround me play style W an R already do. W more dmg on edge and charge for larger aoe. pass rework: Path of the Watchers: where she walks an abilities leave a path that deteriorates over 3 sec, traveling on this path she gain stacks that also deteriorates over 2+lv sec, each stack increases her arm an mr by 2+lv. so say lv 18 so each stack give 20 , travel back the way you came gain 20, gain 14-1, gain 7 -2 = 41-3
As someone who used to play Liss quite a bit back in the day, I like the new passive a lot better. Old passive took so freaking long to be live that I may as well not even have a freaking passive! All I remember is counting down the grueling long seconds for her passive to be up.
As a mediocre liss main, one of the biggest problems she has is her abysmal range on her q and terrible autos making farming unsafe along with the problems outlined here makes liss feel really underpowered. The passive is decent but it's random so compared to the old passive that definitely had utility early game. I'm super late in this video so I know I'm probably talking to myself but I love lissandras kit shes so much fun.
I just played this champ and i think shes broken , but no one realizes how strong her team fighting potential is. Personally i think she needs more damage especially in this burst heavy damage meta , going in does feel like u have to pray for your team to follow up but i love the fact that she practically de-incentives the enemy team from ever team fighting. Riot might want to consider also upping her clone speed and explosion time
When I first picked her up before the passive change, I went on a 17-game winstreak with her, the longest I've ever had. It was kind of amazing. I miss playing her, but she just doesn't feel right anymore.
I don't really play her a ton anymore but when I played on a low elo team Lissandre was one of my go-to midlaners. I didn't overly enjoy playing her, but she is super effective in team play (even though I hate playing her in solo queue) - maybe even to a point where you'd end up buffing her too much for pro play if you did anything to her. The only thing I'd feel okay changing would be the damage or range on her Q. They could give her a small range buff or make it do a little extra damage to minions or something. I think "extra damage to minions" is a thing Riot should look into more of in general as that would give some champions a little more wave clear without buffing their damage in fights.
I recently got back into Lissandra and you bring up a lot of valid points. I think just a small tweak to how the player handles her could solve her problems. I've been finding a lot of success playing her like i would as Kassadin or Kha'zix, teleport over a wall with E, hit them with a RQWQ combo, then back the heck up. In most of my games i've not noticed my durability issues just because i'm not in a position where i can be hit.
Late to the party but Liss was my go to top laner way back in the day to shut down vaynes and other hypercarries back when they could do that well. One advanced trick to help with flanking for any fledgling Liss players out there, if you use her claw and have the end of it where you wanna pop out just inside the wall so enemies cant see it Liss will just pop out of the wall like a phantom when you travel to it, takes only a small bit of practice too.
I've been maining Liss for some time before her passive rework and got to be one of the best Liss' world with "Don Almendro" account a couple times (definetely thanks to her low playrate tho O3O). I love your vids and definetely liked to hear of my main from you, so i wanna give my opinion on this. 1. Liss damage might feel underwhelming in the first stage of the game, when she has no built items and most fights for her are the 1v1's in lane. However, even having poor dmg (a fact) i have to say all of her 4 abilities do AoE dmg (5 if you count the passive), making it kinda easy to end up being the most dmg dealer at the end of the game, plus of her 3 abilities (again, 4 if you count the passive) applying some sort of cc or slow. 2. Liss' engage it's ridiculously obvious, but also one of the best in the game (imo). With a well done combo, you can take like 2/3 of the hp of the whole enemy team, ulting yourself, then casting q again, then zhonya. You have like 5 sec where enemies can't target you and you're still dealing dmg, so just hope any of your teammates will follow your your insane AoE dmg to end the fight. And if, at least, one enemy dies, you have that retarded AoE dmg from the passive to kill the others (it deals the most of her kit). 3. She has no survivality and a hard early mana management where you are forced to build mana items in exchange of tanky ones. That is something most Liss players had to get used to, but since they buffed her ratios, she feels like a beast with insane dmg at teamfights, even being squishy. I do love Liss and her playstyle, since hard engaging champs or super passive ones have always been my thing, but i think Liss' playrate is this low due to her appearance (people like most other champs above her) and the feeling of she being weak and unable to do flashy 1v1 plays. On the other hand, i feel like she is a monster at teamfights with all her AoE dmg and cc. The way you remind players of unused champions' great, keep it that way!
![What's the deal with Lissandra? || character review (League of Legends) [CC]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/6kJIEezT9EE/mqdefault.jpg)
bcs she moans every time she last hits a minon
You'd think that would be a large reason for picking her for some people
@@soka3106 Its actually not that type if I remember correctly
@@pulsefireezreal9134 Oh thank god, the last thing we need is another Evelynn
@@soka3106 You're a bad person.
Idk i see that as a win my man
The strongest thing about lissandra is that no one knows what she does because no one plays her
That's why prerework evelynn was strong.
Aphelios: *Stares in moon*
thrue dat
Thats how Yorick works as well
Yeah, today i saw my first lissandra ever in 1.8k hours of play, about 2.5k games and 1 lissandra, 10x2,500 is 250000, which means there has been 1 pick, in 250000 possible picks of lissandra
I love Liss' relative unpopularity. It really complements her lore. Bosses move in silence.
She's all about "behind the scenes" in the lore so technically it makes sense xD
@@VarsVerum Exactly, her lore is the main reason I started playing her AND League. One of their best designed champs ever imo.
And the fact that most of the champs that are popular and used in competitive are more susceptible being nerf
And then there's leblanc
her kit works, but only for bursting down one champion with her new subjugation passive, can cause a cascade of ice zombies but it requires that first kill, her playstyle is oddly like katarina's now
but only difference is more often than not will come as her setting up ganks with her massive amounts of cc, she typically lacks the damage to 100 to 0 a decent player because it requires alot of damage setup, like poke > poke > poke > oh the enemy is 40% hp oh wait nope they have infinite sustain (most midlaners that get chosen now) viego, sylas, akali etc.
I main Lissandra since her release. For years i was one of the best listed Lissandra players on opgg and leagueofgraphs.
First of all: Her dmg is insane. All the years her dmg was a bit underwhelming but over the last year riot buffed her dmg so much. She has no issues to oneshot a squishy target just with one item because of her crazy AP ratios.
I have no clue why people think she is boring to play because she is one of few mages who has incredible playmake potential. She can carry games by her own with just on good engage. She is a lategame Monster.
Her biggest weakness is her horrible early game. Her cooldowns are to high, mana costs very expensive since they reworked her passive and her base damage is also pretty low.
She even has one of the best Lores of the Champions. She saves whole Runeterra
Because Point and click abilities are far less engaging than skillshots or skills with weird gimmicks, her E is pretty much the only room for creative play and there isn't any wall long enough to make it a hard decision,situations change but the entire game plan of lissandra stays always the same, throw your E and hope that you can unload everything on some poor soul.
i
Saves the whole Runeterra? More like, she shit her bed and is now desperately trying to contain it from leaking anywhere else.
I remember everyone thought Lissandra was evil. I mean, she's no hero but not a villain XD
@@chadhardt6136 I never saw that from this perspective
@@VarsVerum i think she is still both. She's doing terrible things to save runeterra from the watchers
you know the vid is gonna be good when she even got skipped in the "to do" video queue
Ey that wasn’t intentional Q_Q
@@VarsVerum funny
@@VarsVerum the fact that it wasn't intentional made the video better since you feel like you have to make up to it somehow and it results in a better video overall
TL;DR mistakes happen but what you do with that mistake differs from person to person
Bro when you engage as Lissandra and your team doesn’t follow up it’s the worst feeling in the world
IKR and you ult yourself and everyone is just standing there like🧍🏻♀️🧍🏻♀️🧍🏻♀️
Monna Wei i get so mad and sad at the same time lmao
Every engaged support main felt that
OMG YES!
Same thing with Kennen
“Riot doesn’t like damage classes to build tank”
Riot : let’s let tanks like Malphite and Galio to build pure AP and do a ton of damage while still being tanky
But kiteable to some extent.
Still, having a hard CC champion (say Zac) be able to solo kill an adc feels wrong. Their role is to, with a team, pin down high mobility/damage targets, disrupt aggro, and pick aggro when they can.
Same with an ADC; it shouldn't be able to just pick a tank by himself without getting himself in a bad position.
In a team game, an ADC and a Tank/Disruptor have those roles: Let the DPS be able to kill; let the Tank be able to set up kills for their ADC.
... Not freaking let the DPS die to a disruptor; or let a disruptor not have the tools to shake a DPS off.
I feel like League is really suffering from how Riot wants to give a chance for everyone to carry. This is just simply wrong, because League is a team game, and nobody should be able to truly carry, not even the assassins. (Their purpose is to take out a priority target and then die, but since the ADC or the control mage offers much more in a teamfight than them, it's now an advantageous 4v4. They have absolutely no business getting out once they jump into the enemy team, or doing CC wombo combos like a control mage.)
@@sandortojzan5409 See, the other side of that coin is that it's *very hard* to convince people to want to play a champion that can't do anything by themselves.
For example, Sejuani (who, for all intents and purposes, we'll just say does a rather poor amount of damage by herself using a standard build for the sake of argument) is a very very hard engage tank. Her abilities let her go in, disrupt the enemies, and soak team damage with her passive while her own team follows up with the help of her E. And she has a fairly low playrate in solo queue, likely due to the fact that she's so team reliant. It's just generally not a fun grind to spend so much time to learn to play your champ to the best of your ability... only to have all your games be coinflips anyways because you may get a team that is skittish and can't commit to your calls.
It's a lose/lose coin when looked at it from this perspective, because you either [have a game where everyone can take part individually, to the detriment of players who prefer traditional class archetypes], or [have a game with situations like, say, Overwatch, where few people want to play true supports].
Of course, there's in-between balance there, but League philosophy currently sits on the former side, where everyone *can* individually do something that feels more like tangible contribution than just utility - in this case, damage. Hilariously, it's almost the inverse - few people want to play the 'carry roles (jungle/bot)' because lots of champions that traditionally belong there only bring raw damage and can't perform their role properly by themselves until they've got their power spikes.
@@Kiroto50 what you stated is though... wrong. Tanks and disruptors can do whatever they want. They’ve got damage survivability etc. adcs just get one shot and can’t do much.
@@Kiroto50 I've solo killed an ADC as Rammus. He deals a surprising amount of damage.
"Theoretically, if your champion is tanky and deals a lot of damage, that makes them overpowered"
Every toplane champ ever: heh
Laughs in juggernaut
Top lane is useless if you play with a moron who always slitpush and dont care of the team you basically 4v5
@@hoaang9455 soooooo like all lane with moron? Is there a different between top laner who push all the time, adc that position themselve badly, support who constantly mess up the wave, mid and jungler who is braindead?
The reason why no one plays her because if they do, then the Watchers would destroy the whole universe.
I see a man of Necrit aswell
But isn't she keeping Watchers asleep while finding a way to destroy them? She was on their side but after seeing destruction and void corruption, she made an intrigue to make them sleep and now she "feeds" them with dreams of iceborne.
@@BBSKStudio Yes, the Watchers are asleep but she actively needs to lure in iceborns for their dreams to keep the Watchers from waking up. She's getting weaker so she's just buying time to build an army or find something to destroy the Watchers.
Forget her old passive, I love frozen thralls. They can snowball an entire teamfight.
its a win more passive. If youre behind or vs a counter lane that you cant beat you have no passive
@@bombkirby this example is funny
@@bombkirby sure but it's also fun
@@bombkirby When you only wanna ride all day 3 days of the week but have to pay that 70 for 7 rides of the week.
@@bombkirby This is what I was thinking about the whole time but everyone says that "The Old Passive was Better", I don't get it, they LITERALLY increased her Mana Gain, Maximum Mana, Mana Regeneration and decreased the Cost of the Abilities after removing the old Passive. I mean, HOW can you set the Old one was better?
I'm 100% with you.
“When someone is very tanky but does a lot of damage, people would consider them overpowered.”
Mundo- 😳
Mundo is a wheelchair champion. He has no mobility and is very easy to kite
Literally every toplaner in the game
It's okay, nothing bad can come from mundo getting a rework...
I still don't hey why garen e stacks conqueror but rumble q doesn't
Yet another case of riot playing favorites
@@grommy511 Mordekaiser is weak they said
It will be easy they said
Every Mordekaiser I fought: 10/0
I still remember when they did the biggest nerf on her(along with Garen, Heimer, and Zed) where they removed the bug that allowed them to spam taunts that interrupt each other. I still remember her "Sur- Sur- Su- Surr- S- S- S- Sur- Surrende- Sur-"
That was a sad day in league of legends history
oh my gosh yes! Why did they remove that?! So boring that they did...
I completely forgot about that! Now I'm hurting again... ah, like a trueice shard through the heart
That reminds me of Taunt Sliding in TF2 somehow lol. I miss Taunt sliding :v
I do think her kit is one of a kind in League of Legends. Contrary to common belief, she is not as simple as press R and leave. Her abilities are very easy to predict, making her hard to play because engage is very crucial. :(
they honestly need to up the missile speed on her e that shit is beyond slow compared to alot of champs movement abilities and her ratios need to be slightly increased, it was alright before season 11 simply because survivability was easier with ROA and abyssal but with their removals she's essentially just a weak squishy all in mage now. I played an Aram with her and got a lucky quadra early game but after that quadra it took me like 8 mins before I got another kill simply because my damage was completely negated as soon as any of them built merc treads or a null-mantle.
@@MrToren01 i think shes one of those champs you have to invest alot of time into cuz your E is slow yes but if you can play mindgames with it and etc target it vs their adc but then swtich to the jungler who did not expect to be targetet can turn thigns around.
Lissandra is my all time favorite champ! Her lore, design, and kit hit every mark for me and I played her nonstop when she first came out. I still use her often but she doesn't feel as good to play from her initial release. I build her more tanky lately because trying to build all dmg is too frustrating to play most of the time. Still love my ice queen tho
What items do you pick?
@@valesalsal6363 Everfrost > Hourglass > Abyssal > Demonic is my go to with her rn. Then depending on the other team I'll go Morello/Banshee or sometimes Thornmail (lol) Usually end with a Void Staff.
I used to play her all the time for the same reason, then I took her support and had a 70% win rate with a tankier build.
If I wasn't a weirdo only playing gragas and ivern Id definetly play her
We gotta chad in the house
Dude, you are the pinnacle of human evolution
Booze and weeding...
Fellow ivern mains 💪🏽
As a Liss main I just want the Q and AA range to be a little bit longer, but to have the free skill cast back in her passive along with the current one is also nice. Either one is fine.
yea without that her mana runs out like a bitch and junglers in this meta dont like giving mages blue buffs so its even more fucked
@@RelentlessBG true. Some might say that Liss needs to bring manaflow brand, but it's still not enough for her to compete with early game's meta nowadays. Not to mention she's really hard to triggers manaflow passive because of her ranges.
1. Control battle mage
2. Low damage high CC
3. Needs follow up to maximize her potential. Not tanky enough for top, not enough damage for carry mid.
Poor, poor lissandra for being my favorite classic rpg archetype, you deserved better.
she doesnt have lo dmg tbh
@@ΙάσοναςΛημναίος It’s hard to kill a Yasuo at 50% health with one combo, and as a burst mage who has to engage, you need the damage to kill them, otherwise you die. In terms of defense, she has about the same as your traditional burst mage, but she lacks the range and therefore needs something to compensate.
@@jacquelynthompson5346 Tbh I don't struggle bursting a Yasuo even at 100% hp. Lissandra has enough damage to one shot a squishy and survive with self ult and Zhonyas or just Zhonyas if she has to ult an enemy
4. not enough range for support
5. too high cd for jungle
as a Lissandra fanatic...I was waiting for this soooooo bad
Your patience has been rewarded!
Honestly as someone who loves Lissandra
I have no clue why few play her
I believe that is the point of WNOP! To explain why XD
to me, i feel like she just doesn't do enough damage. even when i played against lissandra, her spells felt like being hit by a pebble, although she can be nasty if she manages to lock you down. but her recent buff made me remember about her and i was thinking about picking her up again cuz c'mon locking people down is fun
@@jamesjosephmaquiran7847 hm, ill give it a try then, thnx!
@@ratspew932 easy short version most you follow the pro build and playstyle of off tank low damage build . play her cross between ahri/katarina see enemies health bar disappear. shes a aoe mid range monster.
Useless passive unless you like win-more, inconsistent stuff.
I think Liss suffers from nostalgia. Liss is way more effective as a follow up than engager, but since she was godlike at engaging back in the day, most people think about her that way. Even her new passive is about following up on a kill: It does a TON of damage, but it's slow and obvious. So if liss waits for a good engage from a teammate that kills or almost kills someone, her follow up will mop up the fight HARD. Everfrost is pretty good for that, as the active can be used instead of W or R while waiting for the engage to happen
I love Lissandra and this basically sums it up. Her early game feels awful and she only really shines when she has like 2-3 items, which kinda sucks. However, if you play smart and have a lane advantage, even in the slightest, then she can absolutely snowball and no one can keep her in check. But if she's behind, even a little, she will continue to struggle and that gap will only widen because she doesn't have the damage in her kit.
When i started playing lissandra the one deceptively difficult thing for me was knowing the perfect time to all in with the best outcome because sometimes your teammates cant followup that well. And i think that is one of the reasons why many give up on her after trying her for the first time because they always die after an all in.
As a lissandra main. I think the fact that she fits such a unique role and has a strong identity in the game as the hard aoe cc engage mage is wonderful. It's the goal of league to have every champ be unique and bring something new to the game while also being able to fit a class. So I think all her abilities and her new passive are all well and good. It's just that the game has changed around her and like said in the video she is terribly subject to indirect nerfs through the item updates and the mobility and damage creep in this game. Even though I'm 8 months late on my comment the problems in this video have only gotten worse for her since then.
Love her in ARAM which is quite fitting
Back before the honor system if you sat through the victory screen lissandra would monologue about the story of the abyss.
Howling abyss and lissandra were released during the freljord event. It's very fitting.
@@SoulDevoured Too bad that monologue isn't canon anymore... I mean I'm glad she's not just pure evil anymore, but that monologue... uhhh, so incredibly preformed
@@IDoNotFeelCreative even as a one note evil witch the voice acting and theme built around her was incredibly effective. Chilling, even.
Her new passive shouldn't be reverted as it heavily compliments her playstyle better than the previous one, before the issues you mentioned were more relevant , now the enemies have to choose to either continue committing with her ice ghosts around or completely disengage out of them. She's in a better spot than her pick rate suggests, she's just underplayed
6:10 god Tier Zhonya’s
Fizz: ha ha, I'm in danger.
That one took me some time to figure out
LMAO
My friend is a Lissandra one trick and holy hell does he make her seem broken. I could feed a laner and think they're unkillable, then he comes in a pops them. Love that she's getting attention now
League gets more dashy and fast, and she is just too short range and too squishy.
There's need to be an april fool's "Why no one plays: Yasuo"
Lissandra really doesn’t need a buff. I play her quite a bit and its she is amazing. 1. Its near impossible to get ganked so long as your sensible. 2. You can still delete enemies so long as you take ignite. 3. In teamfights having a fed enemy is basically a non treat since can chain cc them for so long. 4. I always build xhonyas and banshees veil after everfrost. This makes you more than tanky enough to fullfill you purpose to make the most “threatening” enemy champions life miserable by turning them into a completely useless block of ice. 5. Her passive is a terror in teamfights.
I swear even if only her claw skill got faster she would be one of the scariest champs
Agreed
Yes and you can cast it during your ULT
Lower cooldown.
i play lissandra guys give me some love Rank 1 WOLRD HERE
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LISSANDRA GOD IS REAL
I just started lissandra and i love so much the way she's slidin these rocks when she walks xD Time to give some salt-tasty ice(cream)
Having her blink faster would be good with a little more base MS.
i personally love her new passive since it gives her great dmg when her spells are on CD after she has used her combo and got out lov on HP she can stand far back and still spawn ice ghost when your team cleanes up after u
Something I've long advocated for Lissandra to get is some sort of passive that converts spellcasts into shields. Either granting her a Shield based on enemies hit, or based on mana spent. Nothing to make her a full tank, but she NEEDS something to allow her to even exist in melee.
Honestly. I wish she had tankier base stats at the cost of slightly less scaling. I would also love if her ult healing also scaled with bonus Hp, bonus MR, and bonus armor instead of only AP.
2 years later and Lissandra was finally given enough love to be played as a Mid Laner and Support on the Worlds stage. She quickly became my favorite champion to play after her passive rework.
Liss main here, she honestly is in such a weird place because i LOVE her new passive and it's so much more in line with what her character is themed around and like.... however, it splits power from her other abilities and makes her so much more mana hungry. her kit and abilities are focused around her original champion design, and while she hasn't changed much in that regard since release. Her core balance still NEEDS that mana cost passive to function.
To break it down, She can't have high burst damage because she has a lot of easily spammable and hard to dodge skills, but she can't spam her abilities anymore because she'll run out of mana quickly. And because she can't have high burst damage she needs to build durability, but if she builds durability she won't have mana to spam abilities and if she builds mana AND durability she won't have damage. and the biggest issue is that with her IMBA skills, fixing just one of these things could make her EXTREMELY viable again to the point of her just needing to be nerfed once more.
Look my man, I do respect your opinion, but I Also do Play quite a lot of Lissandra and I Almost never encounter Mana Problems, and when I do have them they vanish when ManaFlow Band fully activates. All the other things you said I absolutely Agree, she's on a thin line between being irrelevant or being Broken, but I don't really think the Mana is the Problem, not since they buffed everything about the Mana on Lissandra: Ability Costs, Mana Regen, Maximum Mana per Level...
@@emanuelevigo9864 Her Mana problem can be fixed with manaflow but she's still need to hit her ability for manaflow to fully stacks and it's a pain for her early game(harder when facing range champion). still, if she's got her free skill cast back, she'll likely be a more comfortable picks for newer players.
As a long time Liss main it's really sad that even after the mana buff, she;s still struggle a lot at everything else these dayd.
@@TheHerzLoz So you're saying that Lissandra with the Added Buffs to the Mana AND the Old Passive would be better for her? OK, I can see that, but what about the Insane Team fight Potential her New Passive has? We can't just Dump that for a Passive that existed only Because Old Lissandra used to have much Worse Mana Problems right?
@@emanuelevigo9864 no. I never say anything bad about her new passive. I do like it a lot actually. What I really want for her is her old passive ALONG with the new one. I'm already aware that it might be too op, so I think more longer cool down for a free skill, or just every 3-4 cast will free, either one is fine since she is one of the worst base dmg mage in game despite being one of the short range mages(also low base hp than Leblanc or Syndra for some reasons). She really needs a bit more of advantage for early games.
@@TheHerzLoz And I never said you said anything bad about the New Passive, I just said what you did. And that would be that having her Free Cast back would make her more Comfortable. But then having her Old Passive would mean that the New one has to go. You also said that you Liked the direction her New Passive has gone too but just now have you told me that you think they should co-exist. Then i can see the Problem you're telling me as true, so maybe Liss should get some Rework done to her since the way her ability interact are kinda Counter Intuitive:
One of the Lowest Ranges as a Mage (Similar to Annie);
One of the Lowest Damages for a Mage (Unlike Annie wich is one of the Strongest in fact of Damage);
No defensive Options In her Base Kit despite being Close Range, no Sustain, and Low Base Health and Resistances.
I've been an Anivia main for 7 years but Lissandra has been my #2 for a lot of that time. My desire to play her as often as I used to has been waning lately though and you did a fine job of describing why, which can somewhat be summed up with one main issue: She's very difficult to play from behind. If I could pick one thing to have changed about her it would be the passive rework because it took that problem and rubbed it in like an insult: If your team is having difficulty killing anyone, Liss may as well not have a passive. Ugh.
They meant it to capitalize on her teamfight utility but she's almost best as an assassin who avoids them sometimes now because of the points made in this video and in that case, too, the passive change tends to be unhelpful. I desperately miss being able to outplay people by using the free mana timing to convince people in the early/early mid game that I can't ult/fight them due to being out of mana then turn them into a corpse popsicle. Having that back may as well be a nitpick but losing it sure killed her already-limited outplay potential which mostly relies on peoples' ignorance and underestimating how much damage they would take. I'm really disappointed....
I know I'm kinda late to the party but I've been maining Liss for 5 years and I thought I should give my opinion on this:
You're goddamn right.
3:17 not only is her E very slow and predictable, but it also has a 24s base cooldown. Keep in mind that E ist maxed last, so you're sitting on those 24s cooldown until you reach like level 13. On top of that, her base movement speed is pretty terrible compared to other mages.
3:47 there have been two solutions to this in the past. Back when her passive gave her free spells, it was possible to build Protobelt without having mana issues, but with her current mana issues it's pretty much impossible to play Protobelt. Also Ludens does a lot more damage now and you miss out on a lot of damage by not building Ludens.
The other solution was using hexflash. One could channel Hexflash while the claw was travelling, and flash after the blink. This was also patched out a while ago. Riot just doesn't want us Liss players to have fun
5:40 This is so goddamn true. If you build full damage like an Orianna, you're most likely still getting outdamaged. If you build tank like a swain, you do 0 damage, but still blow up easily because you have no built in tankyness in your kit. It's just funny how champions like DIana and Galio are both tankier and do more damage than Liss. Liss on her own is just straight up weaker than most midlane champions.
7:00 I disagree. Lissandra has a good variety of viable keystones. Electrocute is really good to blow up targets. Dark Harvest is an insane teamfighting rune. Comet can work really well in some matchups to bully out the enemy and win lane.
8:23 there's multiple reasons why carrying with Liss is really hard. The lack of damage is just one of them. With how predictable your engage is, it's really hard to find that one good fight you need. Especially because you have little room for error because of how long your E CD is. Also you're still squishy. One mistake, or just one well placed CC spell from the enemy team, and all the lead you built up was for nothing.
12:24 this would be a decent solution. Being able to build Proto into Zhonyas would make it a lot easier to catch people, and it would give Liss a more clear playstyle. Also it would make it easier to get into a teamfight to get that juicy 5 man combo, but without Ludens it would be a lot less damage. Overall it's a trade I would be willing to make
Okay this all sounds like I'm just a salty Liss main who's asking for buffs, but I just wanted to give my opinion on the points mentioned in the video. Liss is still by far my favorite champion and I love playing her. There's just nothing more fun than seeing an enemy suffer while you stun them for 5 seconds, or getting that one juicy teamfight where just everybody in the enemy team blows up.
if I had to decide how to fix Liss's design, there's 2 things that come to my mind.
Number one would be reverting Liss's passive so she can build Proto+Zhonya and pushing her into a catch/assassin type of playstyle with Electrocute.
Number 2 would be going back to the old Rod of Ages+Zhonyas days and make her a scaling battlemage similar to Swain or Vladimir. She would probably need something like making her thralls do damage over time similar to morde passive so she can be played with conqueror, as well as mana adjustments. Then she maybe could build Rift maker into Zhonyas.
PS: did I mention that Yone E, one of the most broken spells in the entire game, has 2 seconds less cooldown and no mana costs. Pls rito buff Liss E
Hello, I'm a Lissandra main and watching this video I think you failed to realize one of her biggest strengths is that literally all of her damage is AOE. Sure, her 1 target burst potential isn't as high as someone like Lux, Zoe or Leblanc, but her damage and cc instead can literally change the course of a fight. It's all about knowing when to go in and where to go in, during a fight people rarely pay attention to the claw, or even if they see it coming they don't react fast enough to run from it. A good lissandra will position herself in the middle of the enemy team and she will burst down on all of them, directing her Q to as many enemies as possible, but focusing on the squishiest one of them. As procking at least 1 of your passives is vital, your passive will do the follow up damage during your Ult self cast and Zhonyas. Even if your team doesn't follow up, Lissandra alone can take 1 to 3 enemies in a 1v5 if she positions herself correctly. Not many champions can do that.
I've found most people who give up on her don't know her strengths and will try to play her as if they were someone else. They think just going in alone and ulting an enemy will land them the kill, but Lissandra can do the same amount of damage if she ults herself instead. That's why her W is an instant snare, so that her ult damage can follow up as it grows slower. You dump all your damage and finalize with a self ult, the enemies are vulnerable during your stasis because your passive and your team can follow up, and you can prolong this stasis with Zhonyas. While this combo can be telegraphed, i've found that in the chaos of team fights this works fine.
If anything, I'd just like to say Lissandra isn't the strongest character in the game, and I do agree she needs a buff to a certain degree. But from my perspective, most people fail to realize her true strength and give up on her too quickly, a good lissandra player can dictate how the game goes, her roaming potential can turn the fight in jungle, toplane and botlane, and in teamfights she excells, even on her own if fed. Even if she's behind, her kit helps against problematic enemies like a fed Zed, Yasuo or Yi. This is why no one complains with having a Lissandra in their team, she alone if done correctly can provide so much to a team.
200+210+230+350+2.85AP Lux 1.0+0.7+0.65Ap probably liss is higher but lux has long ranged
Totally agreed, no one is league has more AOE damage than our lissandra
April 1st: Why no one plays Gwen, reason: she hasn't been released live yet
I gonna main her , her kit not that cancer except that W
I absolutely love playing Lissandra, I just think she needs a slight bump in her own power level to encourage solo plays in more situations. Even a slow on her next auto-attack when she Q's would be extremely helpful for her solo kill pressure. Sometimes she feels a bit too much like a support; in that she often needs help to kill people in mid-late game imo.
I play a lot of Lissandra and Kayle. Liss shares a lot of the strengths and weaknesses as Kayle. Both of them scale impressively well, but are heavily reliant on items and levels rather than their kit. The make or break point for Liss and Kayle is whether or not the enemy team bullies them pre-6. All of Liss's spells have incredibly high CDs in the early game and cost a lot of mana to cast (even her Q, which at level 1 has like, 8-9 seconds of CD) and are short ranged to the extreme. This opens you up to a long trading period where many characters can essentially run at you without fear to auto-attack or use an ability. You don't play your lane, you SURVIVE it until Level 6. Even then, without your core items, it's difficult to net a kill on your laner with an all-in. They have to already be below 70% HP from poking, or you need assistance from your jungler to close up the final 10-20% damage required. Whereas a Zed with a Serrated Dirk is perfectly capable of blowing you up already. I find that Lissandra excels in enemy comps that have a lot of Melee champs, but if the enemy team has one or two characters like Xerath, God help you because you will never be able to make a safe engage. You can potentially get an incredible 3-4 man engage, but it's almost inevitable that you will die in the process. Lissandra is a character that thrives in the chaos of team fights, and her entire kit is around helping her team win fights. But in the madness of solo queue, it's hard to tell how reliable your team-mates will be until the first fight breaks out, or if they'll even understand how fight oriented Liss's kit is.
I've at least found a method to solve most of Kayle's issues by playing her as an ADC with Fleet. Kayle's scaling works with both AD and AP, so you can always itemized into whatever damage type your team lacks. It turns out that pairing up a support with a hyper-carry means someone can watch your back in lane while you farm up and scale. I've yet to find a comfortable solution to Lissandra's issues. I tried her out as a support for a while, with variations on Electrocute, Comet, Guardian and Aftershock. None of them feel just right, and there's always 1-2 glaring weaknesses for every strength. Poke mage supports make it impossible for her to trade healthily. Tank supports like Alistar and Rell ignore your low base damage, and at best, you can only really peel for your team. Peeling CAN be effective as the core strategy, but the low range of Q-W means you have to essentially sit on top of and baby-sit someone to peel well. Other characters just do the job of supporting, peeling and outputting early game damage far more efficiently.
I really enjoy Lissandra, and I intend to keep playing her. But every time I select her, I get this nagging feeling that Lissandra is holding me back. I see far better success on other characters in her same class type, but I don't find them entertaining the way I do Liss. Here's hoping that the Liss buffs in the coming patch address at least one of her core issues, like early CD on her Q or slightly cheaper mana costs. She just needs SOMETHING to help her early game.
Before watching: I don't see lissandra alot but she isn't bad, just that for what she can do , others do it from a further, safer distance
The Sad Truth, the Deadliest of them all.
No one mains Lissandra until I play Zed and then everyone picks her
Zed is actually quite good into Lissandra levels 3-9. She has almost no tools to deal with your WEQ combo. Yes her R is very strong, but if you can poke her with WEQ enough, you can force her to take very bad self Rs and kill her or force bases afterward.
@@thomasaquinas399 Yeah haha I know, I was more just making a joke
i play her. and i smile when i see a zed
@@WBell it's a mindgame. You either win or lose the lane based on how good you and your opponent are
İ mean even if you lose lane ,zed would look to death mark your adc so you just stay by them and point click cc him, he can't dodge R with untargetable too
In my opinion, the best way to play lissandra is either to play Full AP scaling and go for all ins whenever your teammates are ready for a gank.
Or play her as a tank in the early game but start to play really aggresively once she hits her power spike
It also depends on the matchups I normally always buy ludens and then build zhonyas because I feel like that's a very important item for her
Personally I like the slower behemoth feeling, so she deffinately needs to be more tanky. I would love aftershock to be good on her again
Been running relentless and it’s really nice on her giving her 410 outside of combat easily -- early roams are great to stack a dark seal couple that with mejais and cosmic drive and THEN a protobelt or everfrost reach-- and you’re like the smooth criminal truck meme: “YOU’VE BEEN HIT BY, YOU’VE BEEN STRUCK BY, .... -TRUCK”
A return of her old passive on top of the current kit with some better base damage on her base abbilities at the cost of worse ap scaling, a buff to her base mana regen, base hp (for whatever reason hers is lower than Le Blank, Syndra or Orianna despite needing it way more), hp regen (for sustain in lane, she gets none from items and runes wich is very rare nowadays) and maybe a redirection of power from her E to the Q and W would probably fix her. She is an insanley fun champ to play (tho her animations are starting to show their age) and I've tried to get back into playing her but her early game is just atrocious.
If I can survive past level 6 and get her core items, she is an absolute BLAST to play. But sweet jumping F U C K is she so easily abused in the early game. Lack of range, high CDs and low base damage means she can't compete with a majority of mid-laners.
I remember the same issue with Tahm kench. His damage scaled off of health which made him really good into everyone because health isn't as conditional as armor or Magic resist, but it was scaling off of his ultimate at a big rate, so they made it his normal passive and significantly lowered the damage
Why no one plays: Lissandra
Lissandra mains: Let see 🤔
Woah vars your editing has improved very very much in this video good job this video has one of the best and smoothest among your other videos
Ok, I can't be the only one that hears "Lissandra, the eye switch" at 0:03
These vids have only made me realize how well the lore of a character ties into how they play
You sure? He talked about how Aurelion Sol had bad spacing... hahaha
Finally, i found a person on the internet who actually understands x champion issues properly.
1. Nerfed to oblivion by huge damage nerf and mana cost increased 2. Used to be a burst mage with high dmg and ap ratio, nerfed and ended up being a kite mage that can't kite because of her low range and movement speed. 3. Removed mana regen passive and gutted her damage by shifting her burst into her passive making her dependent on getting kills with low ap damage. 4. Turned into a teamfight mage with a suicidal role because of her low range.
Honestly, Lissandra just needs a way to make her a more unique champ that can at least carry than be something like Malzahar. Anivia had a similar problem where she felt too outdated and weak, that she felt like an anti carry than an AP scaling monster. Hope Riot gives her more attention.
Riot is clearly going in the wrong direction. Instead of releasing a new broken, out of caracther champ they should just rework the outdated Champs like lisandra, anivia, nasus or teemo. But I guess the money speaks louder
@@Tomas1999Benfica Anivia's rework has made her feel more playable, I feel no need to change her. Nasus is fine, good low ELO pick if you need it. Lissandra and Teemo, maybe
@@vinnyle0 I mean every champ can be good in low elo if the player has at least some kind of understanding about game. I think the goal should be always to make a balanced champ, a yone player will very likely destroy a similar skilled nasus player.
Just like trynda, shaco, teemo, singed, rammus etc
@@Tomas1999Benfica dont forget my boy the smurf ryze, need my rework fix, been long without a ryze rework
I was a liss main, the old mana passive + the wave clear, gave you the possibility to opt out of laning like talon does. I prefered it a lot. Gives you a way out of impossible long range match ups and let you be proactive
As a Lissandra main, I feel vindicated by every second of this video.
I’ve played alot of Liss throughout her coming out and being changed, and personally I think
the item changes were her biggest hit, they added some items that really help her, like Everfrost and Horizon Focus, but after the nerfs to her base damages I think she is just undertuned right now. Buffing her base damages early especially on her Q, but leaving her late game base damages the same would help greatly in getting her to a point she can get the items to burst, the other option would be lowering her cooldowns on her Q and W, with her CC she can kite people well, so having lower cooldowns would let her skirmish a bit more and not rely so heavily on the instant burst. Her passive I feel needs some adjustments because in lane, she will never have any use for it, so adding a second part to the passive like mana regen or a defensive option like Malz or Sej could help her survive a bit longer, while something like making it proc on cannon minions with reduced damage or range might be an effective option to keep higher damage potential.
I find shattered crown and hougæasd to be a must on her in team fights
Her design is amazing and i absolutely love it, but her kit could be better.
IMO I think the only problem with lissandra is that the speed of which her e flies is very slow. Everything else in her kit seems okay. Passive is very useful during teamfights in assisting with burst dmg and slows as with her q. Her w and r are also good for cc-ing enemies or saving herself in a pinch. Her e is just too slow that even walking would be faster for you if you throw out and wait to activate e on max distance. Either way, I'm not entirely sure about that since I'm not a lissandra main and it's just my observation to as what I know and seen so far about her.
She is one of my favourite champions. But I am a jungler :(
She has a great kit for jungling, but she can’t clear camps to save her life.
I play lissandra when I'm in a 5 stack premade because she is so satisfying when you can actually get her kit off. Her passive is the reason I have so many pentas on her.
My passive always steals pentas lol
@@jacquelynthompson5346 lol
Though Lissandra is one of my oldest mains, I am not a great lissandra so this might be a bit closer to what the average player notices. One of the issues she used to have prior to her passive change was her really high mana cost on her Q, which was at 80 from rank 1. Meaning that spamming it to try and poke someone down would cause you to run out of mana quickly. And while her old passive did allow a free cast, it had quite a cooldown, and at the time her base damage and scaling was both worse, meaning you'd need to cast more to reach the same amount of damage you do now.
I'm not quite certain if she had high mana cost because of her passive, or had her passive because of her mana cost. Either way it was a very uninteresting passive and the new passive is massively preferable.
As was said she has good scalings, but horrible base damage. Combined with her very low range means putting out your damage is difficult and more than likely causes you to take a lot of damage in return. So what you want is ganks. Due to her cc a gank is damn near guaranteed to succeed, especially if the ganker in question also has cc. However the thing you notice in solo q is that people don't tend to cooperate well, if at all. Thus you can be left stranded in lane against an opponent you know you would have a hard time killing yourself, but would be an easy kill with some assistance. Which can be rather frustrating.
However the bigger issue in season 11 is that due to the mythic items getting an early game lead is more important than ever before, something that is incredibly difficult to do as lissandra by yourself, due to as forementioned low base damage and low range.
Which brings me to matchups. A lot of laners, most ranged laners out range you by quite a bit, mages and the like. Meaning they can poke you out of lane, causing you to fall behind and etc. However as mentioned due to Lissandra's reliable cc she should be a good counter against melee champions such as assasins right? Theoretically yes, but in practice less so, especially this season. A lot of the assassins you'll face in mid have some ranged ability with an equal range to you if not longer, meaning they can poke you back. Another problem against melee is that while Lissandra's W is an instant root, it is a very low range one. Meaning most champs that you can root are already in their effective range anyway. And in most mid assassins cases, they can get on you quick, meaning that when you root them, they are already on you, and at that point a root isn't going to prevent them from dealing their damage. And with how slow her E is you are unlikely to be able to escape the burst either.
Her W is generally insufficient to protect her from assasins properly
While her Q has some range when it hits a minion, using that extra range also tends to mean pushing which leaves you a lot more vulnerable.
You lack the range to trade properly with mages, and you lack the damage and tankiness to trade with assasins.
These issues are easily offset with some ganks as it allows her cc and engage to shine, however that requires cooperation and that tends to be lacking in SoloQ.
Lissandra works better in a slower more controlled game, right now however she is simply not able to keep up with most of her opponents by herself.
She's one of them mages with the most abilities to protect herself, and yet she's also one of the most vulnerable.
Like I said while I do main her, I am not a great Lissandra player. These are just issues that I think turn off most people from playing her.
I mean you’ve hit the nail on the head with “she’s an all in champ/engage champ”.
You have to have a team that can wombo combo when you go in or liss can follow up etc etc.
it’s hard for her to lose lane as well since she’s pretty strong level 2 and even stronger level 3 with electrocute. It’s quite easy to snowball; however, late game it relies on her one pick (a carry) to cc down and try to survive. I love to play her against assassins or hard engage because you can peel, fake engage with E, bait them with your ult into a full combo. She’s just very versatile; as you stated though, her short range on Q, W, and R hurt her.
She’s fun and I love her, but it sucks that all these New champs can easily counter all of her abilities.
Hi, Liss main here, she is really strong as she is and I want her to be kept a hidden gem, ty.
Her passive should interact with her cc.. Something like:
When LIssandra CC a target/targets, she gets +X damage in her next spell.
This may cause her to be way too op, but sure she would be fun for a couple of patchs :D
I just bought her yesterday, lol. And I think it's gonna be great!
easy short version most you follow the pro build and playstyle of off tank low damage build . play her cross between ahri/katarina see enemies health bar disappear. shes a aoe mid range monster. watch elsa of garendel to see how high her damage if used correctly.
Liss main here! If you use her correctly you can be very usefull and do so much damage. (I generally do most damage in games with liss) but you have to scale to do some damage. She has really good scalings but bad base damage
Watching this when it came out led me to trying to play her support. She can't follow up so my plan was to take her support and lock down. From this videos release, I did it for about 4 weeks afterwards. And basically this is what I learned:
Lissandra isn't great anywhere. In the support role, she can truly shine with Imperial Mandate, and a long range ADC like Cait, Varus, Sivir/Akshan. You basically also have to take Font of Life bc your utility is going to suffer once you've blown you load. Her passive is CRAZY useful in 2v2 botlane trades because a good kill can guarantee you enough time to go lock down the other, forcing their flash, heal, exhaust or whatever. Assuming you survive. There aren't great mythic options to give her defense. Her ratios are awesome, and gives her the chance to be a late game powerhouse, you feed your ADC with your CC and then get to feast on the glory later, but I honestly wouldn't recommend it. If you want some serious CC and crazy ratios, play seraphine and rush rylais.
I feel like they should change her passive again. I've never really seen the ice zombies she makes be useful. Maybe they could make her passive similar to RoA, with scaling Mana and Health increases after a certain period of time or levels.
I think they just need to increase her Q range a bit, or maybe increase the range after it extend. Honestly I feel like her Q was so short, even shorter than Malzaha.
That’s so boring lol. Did you see the lissandra pentakill on Reddit? Two of the kills were from ice zombies when she died
Those ice zombies are a great way to secure a multi kill. They can more than half health a squishy target and are really disruptive in a teamfight. It's just such a specific passive that can't be used much. It only procs on a takedown and it's use is very situational.
I Forgot if the ice zombies moved quicker than it would be a good buff at least for me and if I could control who it targeted
I think her passive makes her quite powerful scaling disruptor defensive "counter-dive" mage into mid game to clean up enemy assassins that love to go 1 for 1 just for a dive , if she's build with Lyandri's /sorc , hextech protobelt / as core and then situationaly
As a Liss main, the problem isn’t her damage, she can one shot an entire team if given the setup, which is the problem. But with protobelt that problem is mitigated slightly. As for runes I always take electrocute.
Also I feel like building full damage is the only way to play her since it is the fun way (can I just say her ratios are disgustingly high). Why need survivability when you one shot the team while in 5s of stasis with self R and zhonya. :/
Lol. Oneshotting whole enemy team is much more satisfying than her old playstyle
Just increase the range of her q, reduce its damage but make it do more damage the closer you are to someone, or make it do more damage to targets behind the first one. Then increase her e travel speed. These seem like super easy buffs that wouldn’t break her.
I loved playing her when she was on free rotation a while back, and i kind of forgot about her since, she needs more love.
Day 9 of asking Vars to make Why no one play's Xerath
;)
me getting wrecked by every Xerath:
👀 no one plays.. who?
cause he is an edgy weirdo mage with unlimited amount of chroma ?
Wait, nobody plays him?
2 things 1 would change. First, her q range. If you hit something it flys quite a distance, but otherwise it's to short. (Trades are more difficult
2. Speed up her e and passive. The passive only hits you if you dont know her.
Do you mind, if i translate your video and post it in a group ? I'm afraid some people might not understand English, cause it's not our primary language
I'll leave the credit to your videos.
You can feel free to add subtitles to the video! :)
I used to main Lissandra and she was really popular back in season 4-5, together with heavy cc champ like Jarvan. But I feel like over time she does not get worse as a single champion, it's just that other champs could do better than her. There are tanks who could have as much as cc as her and stay longer in fight, while there are other mages who provide better cc at much longer distance, not to mention the champs with spell shield are much more prevalent now, making her cc kinda useless.
All in all she's kinda clunky as a mage and squishy as a top laner, with such slow movement speed she could not really roam either. I hope Riot would buff her as a tank or increase her speed, just buffing her damage is not solving the core issue.
Her new passive is shit. It's just shit. The "zombie" moves too slowly and has a long delay before actually dealing damage. The only time i got hit by this thing is after i came back to the game from a 3 year break and didn't even realize the thing.
Plus it doesn't even do anything in a 1v1. That's a really bad thing for a solo laner.
As a liss main i agree with you. They gave too much powerbudget to her passive thats why she struggles so much.
Zilean's passive doesn't do anything in a 1v1.
A lot of Lissandra's damage potential is looked behind getting takedowns because her damage output is soooo reliable. Unless the enemy takes cleanse or buys qss, there are very few midlaners who can deal with flash RQWE ignite Q. She doesn't even have to hit a skillshot to pull it off.
@@thomasaquinas399 I think Zilean should also get a passive that works for himself too , however Zilean is obviously a supportive long range mage while Lissandra is a hard engage burst mage. A supportive mage should not have great 1v1 potential. A hard engage burst mage that has to go melee range to use her full combo definitely needs to have a passive. Nobody is going to get hit by that thing in a teamfight unless their pc just freezes or as in my case , they come back to the game after years and don't even notice it the first time they see it. That was the only time i ever got hit with it.
It's not that she need to have her passive reverted, it's that she needs to hav both passives. Even if the zombies need to be nerfed.
Her old passive just gimps her and makes her mana problems even worse because they made her mana cost huge to compensate for that occasional free spell
Her stun only does something if she casts it with her ulti. It by itself does nothing. Basically she has to use her ulti to get a stun so that she hopes she can kill someone or have someone else do it. No one should have to use their ulti to get a reliable stun.
A funny thing you mention here is reliace on items. Complete tangent but i have found Corki to just always weasle himself into the meta, befause everytime one if his builde gets nerfed, he can abuse a new OP item.
I have seen corki meta build include
Immortal shield bow/liandries/ludens/riftmaker/divine sunderer. Almost no other champ can just swap around muthics like that and still be effective at all, let alone be a meta champ.
To be honest if you're getting used to her you don't need a single defensive item, because of your timing and positioning. If done correctly you just steamroll the enemy team 100 to 1 in 1 second.
pro of Lissandra: She can get a pentakill even after dying (I actually pulled off a triple after death but sadly no more, ignite popped off my initial target and the ghosts killed the other two)
Her biggest nerf came when they removed her ability to taunt spam. I miss just annoying my enemies with an endless spam of "i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i i"
omfg i miss this so MUCH hahaha
I mained lissandra for two years. And I have a feeling you see lissandra as a burst mage. Thats just one side of the coin.
Lissandra is actually a switzer knife of mage subclasses as she posses the means of locking down the target. Diving the enemy team. Outduelling fighters similary the way the battlemages do due to her kiting and spacing potential along with cc and self sustain which heals you over half your health if used properly. And a zone disruption perfect for counterpicking most of enemy assassins.
With lissandra you are basically main or secondary team engage which can help you complement a team which has no tank to start a fight. With your area disruption you donť always need to dive into enemy team just because you can. Many times its way better to babysit your carry and disrupt any diving champions if someone in your team is your win condition. If you need a solo kill you just go for E protobelt R and stunlock the enemy to oblivion. If you feel rotating bot its very easy as your very realiable cc and flanking potential over walls is guaranted gank if your botlanes are somewhat equeal.
If you are a good lissandra you know there are many build paths dependent on facing mages, assassins or even slayers in the mid lane, but overall you don't go defensive. If you play solo queue you need to deal damage and make good macro decisions on where to be at the exact time. If you just go defensive and expect you will be useful for your team, because of the utility lissandra has you are wrong this is not how soloqueue works. Once you have first complete item you can solokill any champion who does not build defensive If they do then you simply need to decide if you need magic pen or if that MR stacking zed who plays very even match to you forces you to have armor to outduel him.
The only efficient counterpick to lissandra is defensive, enchanter, bruiser, tank ish composition in champ select (or Xerath fuck that champion). As lissandra has means to kite many bruisers, but struggles to fight multiple high health targets as you can't space against all of them. The key to learning playing lissandra properly in solo queue environment is to learn how to play easily on mana and being almost glasscanon playmaker. And how to aproach every situation as you should know as assassin who is the enemy priority target and from where and how to flank / destroy it. As a tank you should know when to engage and how to setup fight for your team. As toplaner you should know who you can outduel in sidelane. And as a support you should know what is your win condition and if it is just better to peel for your vayne who just hit her powerspike. If you play this champion with only knowing that you are a slow E lategame bomb delivery you probably play lissandra wrong and only scratched the surface she is a very macro reliant champion who rewards players with team comp and win condition thinking and proper positioning, decision making as your area disruption can be used many different ways.
Having old and new passive together would be nice imo.
As a fan of Lissandra's design in general, my biggest issue is how she plays in the lane. Purchasing a tear may be a decent choice early on, but as you play the lane with the lack of a corrupting pot, you'll eventually get out poked by most champions. On top of that, you lack the sustain and DoT that corrupting pot provides to equal out the trade.
That being said, taking ignite would benefit you by providing kill pressure. But this will force you to exclusively win the lane and purchase a lost chapter, or lose the game. With the lack of TP, you are barred from the opportunity of a gank to set your side lanes ahead, or to lane efficiently as you eventually lose control of the lane, due to the lack of mana to pressure the enemy without jungle presence.
Bringing back her old passive is indeed a great thought, but without your current passive to slow the enemies in and apply pressure of a possible burst during team fights, you would have much less of an opportunity to flee with your only mobility tool on cooldown. This negates the reason of raising her AP ratios in the first place, which was to burst and peel away from the enemy, especially after they nerfed Aftershock AND removing the AP durability items.
what you said about malz when he surpesses also surpress himself i think also applies to Lissandra. Fixes: have W interact w/ E (also casted where E is) & R (larger aoe), allow her to cast abilities while she in her R, what if they went back to cdr but kept haste which would then effect how fast spells are casted/travel? rework Q so when targeting above self changes into aoe & rework E so is faster, lower cooldown and guide like Yuumi but when targeting above self is slower an higher cooldown but send out multiple circling outward from her, recast go to one targeted by mouse. this would play into a surround me play style W an R already do. W more dmg on edge and charge for larger aoe. pass rework: Path of the Watchers: where she walks an abilities leave a path that deteriorates over 3 sec, traveling on this path she gain stacks that also deteriorates over 2+lv sec, each stack increases her arm an mr by 2+lv. so say lv 18 so each stack give 20 , travel back the way you came gain 20, gain 14-1, gain 7 -2 = 41-3
As someone who used to play Liss quite a bit back in the day, I like the new passive a lot better. Old passive took so freaking long to be live that I may as well not even have a freaking passive! All I remember is counting down the grueling long seconds for her passive to be up.
As a mediocre liss main, one of the biggest problems she has is her abysmal range on her q and terrible autos making farming unsafe along with the problems outlined here makes liss feel really underpowered. The passive is decent but it's random so compared to the old passive that definitely had utility early game. I'm super late in this video so I know I'm probably talking to myself but I love lissandras kit shes so much fun.
I just played this champ and i think shes broken , but no one realizes how strong her team fighting potential is. Personally i think she needs more damage especially in this burst heavy damage meta , going in does feel like u have to pray for your team to follow up but i love the fact that she practically de-incentives the enemy team from ever team fighting. Riot might want to consider also upping her clone speed and explosion time
When I first picked her up before the passive change, I went on a 17-game winstreak with her, the longest I've ever had. It was kind of amazing. I miss playing her, but she just doesn't feel right anymore.
I don't really play her a ton anymore but when I played on a low elo team Lissandre was one of my go-to midlaners. I didn't overly enjoy playing her, but she is super effective in team play (even though I hate playing her in solo queue) - maybe even to a point where you'd end up buffing her too much for pro play if you did anything to her. The only thing I'd feel okay changing would be the damage or range on her Q. They could give her a small range buff or make it do a little extra damage to minions or something. I think "extra damage to minions" is a thing Riot should look into more of in general as that would give some champions a little more wave clear without buffing their damage in fights.
I recently got back into Lissandra and you bring up a lot of valid points.
I think just a small tweak to how the player handles her could solve her problems.
I've been finding a lot of success playing her like i would as Kassadin or Kha'zix, teleport over a wall with E, hit them with a RQWQ combo, then back the heck up.
In most of my games i've not noticed my durability issues just because i'm not in a position where i can be hit.
Late to the party but Liss was my go to top laner way back in the day to shut down vaynes and other hypercarries back when they could do that well. One advanced trick to help with flanking for any fledgling Liss players out there, if you use her claw and have the end of it where you wanna pop out just inside the wall so enemies cant see it Liss will just pop out of the wall like a phantom when you travel to it, takes only a small bit of practice too.
I saw this video and something instantly clicked, I bought her and she’s so freaking fun to play, and she’s already one of my favorite mid laners
I've been maining Liss for some time before her passive rework and got to be one of the best Liss' world with "Don Almendro" account a couple times (definetely thanks to her low playrate tho O3O). I love your vids and definetely liked to hear of my main from you, so i wanna give my opinion on this.
1. Liss damage might feel underwhelming in the first stage of the game, when she has no built items and most fights for her are the 1v1's in lane. However, even having poor dmg (a fact) i have to say all of her 4 abilities do AoE dmg (5 if you count the passive), making it kinda easy to end up being the most dmg dealer at the end of the game, plus of her 3 abilities (again, 4 if you count the passive) applying some sort of cc or slow.
2. Liss' engage it's ridiculously obvious, but also one of the best in the game (imo). With a well done combo, you can take like 2/3 of the hp of the whole enemy team, ulting yourself, then casting q again, then zhonya. You have like 5 sec where enemies can't target you and you're still dealing dmg, so just hope any of your teammates will follow your your insane AoE dmg to end the fight. And if, at least, one enemy dies, you have that retarded AoE dmg from the passive to kill the others (it deals the most of her kit).
3. She has no survivality and a hard early mana management where you are forced to build mana items in exchange of tanky ones. That is something most Liss players had to get used to, but since they buffed her ratios, she feels like a beast with insane dmg at teamfights, even being squishy.
I do love Liss and her playstyle, since hard engaging champs or super passive ones have always been my thing, but i think Liss' playrate is this low due to her appearance (people like most other champs above her) and the feeling of she being weak and unable to do flashy 1v1 plays. On the other hand, i feel like she is a monster at teamfights with all her AoE dmg and cc.
The way you remind players of unused champions' great, keep it that way!