The bombs aren't a complaint about physics, its a complaint about consistency. Why use these slow bombers that have to be right on top of the target and for some reason have literally no defense when you can run in a small team of Y wings for the same effect? Why were these even designed in the first place when Y wings already existed?
@@SrgntSprnkls77 why did they use heavy bombers like the B-17 in WW2? When fighter/bombers like the P-47 where so successful? Oh yes, one carries way more bombs.
@@gospyro By that same token, when we see the bombs drop in TLJ and how close it is to the much bigger planet, with therefore much more powerful gravity, just seeing that they drop should be enough. Either way, one scene shouldn't be overly criticized while the other gets a free pass when they both have the same issue, essentially... A lot of the "issues" with Last Jedi tend to have that, actually.
Discussing physics in Star Wars is pretty much a waste of time, that being said... the ships in TLJ were (more or less) in orbit, making the gravitational force of the planet moot relative to everything (ships, bombs etc). If you are in orbit and dropped something it doesn't fall rapidly towards the planet, it continues in orbit. @@Tayvin4042 Plus the bombs did not fall towards the planet, but towards the dreadnaught. There are SO many things wrong with that entire 'battle' and the entire concept behind that slow motion chase that the bombers and bombs are pretty much the least stupid thing. The TIE bombers in ESB were, relatively speaking, quite close to the asteroid.
Science Fantasy also applies to Star Wars; the whole thing is essentially an epic fantasy on the same grounds as Lord of the Rings but taken to space because Lucas is a fan and loves Flash Gordon and John Carter.
Nah. Space opera is science fiction that deals with a space empires and politics and conflicts on a massive scale and tons of melodrama. You can do the science in space operas as hard as The Expance of the Nightdawn trilogy, or mostly non-existant like Star Wars. The term Space Opera is more escriptive of the plot than it is of the style of story-telling used.
@Dread StarZ The fuel came out of nowhere and prior to the Galaxy acted as if fuel wasn't really that important. All of a sudden it became a huge deal.
@@AstinCrow Why would anyone think that ships were fuel-less? Vehicles need some type of fuel to run, period. Fuel is brought up many times in The Clone Wars and Rebels. This argument makes no sense.
@@themetalstickman to add on to that, if the ships run out of fuel, they can no longer accelerate, so they would continue traveling at their speed since no other force is acting on them. The First Order ships could still accelerate, however, which would allow them to catch up. Hence the fuel still makes sense.
@@themetalstickman It was brought up, but never as a problem. In the Clone Wars, it was never a problematic resource, even for pirates and the like. (Also, that "universal rule" isn't necessarily true in SW). Now all of a sudden hyper fuel is extremely precious. In the Solo movie, it was crucial to spacers to get hyper fuel in any way they can and even the Empire was hunting for it. It completely botched the precedented setting that didn't worry about it. Even in the Phantom Menace the Naboo survivors were worried about a broken hyperdrive, not hyperfuel.
Dread StarZ The speeds of the ships were set up as a rule in the universe since the first movie, so that’s not really comparable. Though momentum, unfortunately, has always been treated loosely in Star Wars. So that’s no new problem.
Funny thing is, people complain about these bombers being unrealistic when spaceships in Star Wars fly around like WW2 planes in an atmosphere when there's no atmosphere or gravity in space. - Typed this before watching the rest of the video.
resistance bombers are literally pointless when the past showed bombers like the y-wing. it's like technology went backwards. thats why it didnt work for me. not because of "scientific accuracy". i think its pretty clear most star wars fans are not neil degrasse tyson.
Were there Y-wings in that battle? Leia lost a lot of support before that battle and sh!t got worse for the Resistance as things progress, so I completely understand why they had to use stupid humor and a very off tactic to distract the First Order in order to even try anything with sh!t bombers. That's all they had.
When ever I bring up the Tie Bomers in Empire, people will shout UHM WEHLL ITS OBVIOUS THE BOMBS WERE ACTUALLY PROPELLED FROM INSIDE. uhm...how is it obvious? You get NO explanation for it in the movie, they literally just drop down. In TLJ, you actually get to see them inside the ship, and see how they are launched.
It also makes sense for the Resistance to actually use these bombers instead of things such as Y-wings. After all, the Dreadnaught hull is extraordinarily strong, the payload of the Resistance bombers is literally 1,048 bombs, and they still need to hit the Dreadnaught hull in the right spot. And what is the payload of the y-wing? 8, and they can only shoot two at a time. To get across the point, that would mean that you would need your y-wing to do 524 bombing runs what the Resistance bomber could do in about thirty seconds, and without having to restock torpedos every three runs
That one guy- But but but but greedo, the bay doors on the bottom of the ship were open, so not only are the bombs now in the vacuum of space, the pilot should literally be dead since she's not wearing an oxygen mask. Do you even science??? *conveniently ignores the scene from rogue one where darth vader is able to watch the ship detach in open space, and also his cape is waving like there's wind.
In fact, that's an interesting bit of technology I've noticed in *all* the Star Wars movies, but never heard mentioned: the air containment fields on all the open hangars and docking facilities in space. These things allow ships and other solid objects through them (like Kylo Ren's torpedoes in The Last Jedi) but not air. Like artificial gravity and auralizers (the radio plays' explanation for why you're hearing noises from all those ships in outer space even though there shouldn't be any sound there), the technology's so common that no one ever seems to have any reason to comment on it.
The bombers aren't impossible, they're just really badly designed. Seriously, who thought slow moving ships of that size, especially ships containing a large number of explosives, could possibly go well?
Sebastian Urquidi that bomber held like a hundred bombs. That would be too much for y wings. Maybe they didn't have enough. Or the first order ship's weakpoint could only be blown up if too many bombs blow in an instant. Just be creative 😃
because everyone loves ships in SW moving slowly like all the previous SW movies. slow x-wing, slow TIE, slow Y-wing, slow Falcon, and Poe has to look reckless because of his arc, just like how he was in TFA. Or wasn't.
Or hand-held devices that can contain plasma energy in a blade-like shape? Or hundred-meter-long starships made of metal that can move in the gravitational well of a planet without getting crushed by their own weight?
@@Falxifer95 Wouldn't that also apply to those who say that it's a "flawless philosophical masterpiece that those hate this film aren't TrUe StAr WaRs FaNs?"
TheSlayFer Ch. T. Dude star wars is for everyone, stop regulating it down to some fucking kids show, in this movie there are multiple attempts at showing gray morality like with the code breaker showing that the ship owner has sold weapons to the bad guys” and the “good guys”, something that would clearly fly over the head of a “kid” target audience, stop trying to regulate this franchise to that level to support your idiotic claims
@@Falxifer95 So just because it's a kids movie it's allowed to have shit writting? Such a bad argument and kind of an insult to the intelligence of children.
I wasn't sure if he meant orbital bombardment or just sending fighters down to bomb the generator from the skies. Also, new thought: why didn't the Empire send down fighters to escort the AT-ATs like the First Order did in TLJ?
@@SuperScarface83 They did...not shown in movie but there was actually fight in the air - x-wings vs tie-fighters...a little more far from base tho...yes it was added after movie but so was many explanations to TLJ so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@mikedoge5559 Good to know. Come to think of it, was that something depicted in the Rogue Squadron games? Also, I don't mind the after-the-fact explanation. Without question, Star Wars is built on those.
I don't know which one is more stupid: the complaint about bombs dropping in space, or the complaint about Snoke's bodyguards fighting Kylo and Rey after Snoke was dead. Honestly, I refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to not understand either of those.
If you're gonna complain about physics in a film's universe in which people move shit with their hands (without picking them up), then maybe you're in the wrong franchise. *speaking in general here, just to clarify*
lol, "laws of the SW universe" I'd love to read that book. rolls eyes. So, filmmakers are never allowed to expand the universe because of "laws"?@@aaronstark1969
@Andrew Waples....well yes... If you show the audience that planets have gravity, you can't go on in the second movie claiming that no planet has gravity. There is no book on the laws of SW but you can figure them out by using your eyes. TLJ bombers break the law of gravity (if they us that) or the law of electromagnetics (if they use that law instead)
My biggest complaint is that they already made the B-Wing bombers for long-ranged bombing runs. They literally downgraded in the sequels. And in Empire Strikes Back, they couldn't do orbital bombardment because of the shield. They had to send a strike team to destroy the shield generators before glassing could be possible.
Yep. Think if people want to discuss pacing or tone things like that it seems fair. The movie does have some issues with that imo. But saying it sucks because you cant wrap your head around one tiny thing in a giant sci-fi battle is ridiculous.
I've been countering this dumb nitpick since the film came out. The pilot falls down the bomb shaft, clearly showing an artificial gravity in the bomb bay. Nobody cares. She pushes the button to release the bombs in the exact same bomb bay she fell down, people freak the f*** out.
Skye Moyer It’s irritating...the movie has a lot of great stuff in it that people won’t acknowledge because of nitpicking. The movie has legit problems...but this isn’t one of them
2:33 They couldn't orbitally bombard hoth because of the shield generator. That was kind of the focal point of the entire battle. Also im pretty sure they only came from one direction because echo base was built into the side of a mountain so its flank might have too rough of terrain
Pickles og Well some ships had to come into the atmosphere to drop off the AT-ATs, so couldn’t they have fired the ion cannon on the landing ships if that were the case?
Marebb Movielover Very true, and something I really don’t care about at the end of the day. It’s just fun to talk about the nitty gritty and think about the smaller details sometimes.
I don’t care if it makes sense or not. The problem about that scene is that it was so unimaginative... I can’t believe with all they had a WW2 bombing sequence is all they come up with
In Ship There was gravity - they fall like she fell and this bomb controller - When bombs were out in space - they kept falling down. I dont know how people still call this nonsense.. And it was very risky hard tactic. But one bomber destroyed ship that was 20X its size.
Never understood this complaint to begin with... Not only gravity, but I already guessed they were magnetic when I saw the movie in theater... I thought it was obvious when the lights switched on the bombs. I feel complaints like these are just nit picks people try to use to justify their hatred or dislike of the movie... To prove a point. Thing is you don't need to nitpick crap to justify your opinion, there is plenty of legitimate issues to be had with the movie... Nitpicking about a non issue like "bombers in space" just makes you look petty.
If people had just said they didn’t like the movie, that’s perfectly fine and normal. There were definitely problems with the movie (as there are in every Star Wars movie in my opinion) but it’s the things people complain about that just tells me they don’t have legitimate reasons for hating it. More than likely they went into the theater already hating the movie so they found every little thing to nitpick at.
People complaining about the bombs in TLJ is just another example of fans nitpicking and finding issues in the film when there isn’t one. Star Wars hasn’t ever given a damn about physics in space. In the end, people want as many reasons as possible to stay irrationally bitter about one movie for as long as possible.
One of the things I think people miss is the homage RJ was paying to the courageous heavy bomber crews in WWII. Even the venerable B-17 was highly vulnerable as it was slower and far less maneuverable than the fighters it needed to defend itself against. Many were lost exactly the way it happened in TLJ. When the fighter hit the bomb bay of the Starfortress, the bombs were armed. Mid air collisions were not uncommon and the formations were kept tight to allow planes to cover each other, but that also made it likely to lose multiple planes at a time. It happened more often than people realize, and that scene is more realistic than people would believe. Set that flight over Bremen or Stuttgart 75 years ago and it would be a similar story.
Caleb Morgan you see homage it not its till dumb when everything in these movies is reused and updated rebel tec. So why in the hell would they keep the a wing and x wing and scrap the y wing and b wing? Which the y wing is still there because it’s in the episode 9 poster so we know they had it. It’s just lazy story telling.
Maestro Jeffay because they’re dealing with hand me downs and donations. The Resistance is actually in far worse shape than the Rebellion because they are pulling tech from a demilitarized Republic, while the Rebellion had Clone Wars tech to pull on. Besides which, Ywings and Bwings wouldn’t have dinged that Dreadnaught. 5 Ywings only disabled an ISD at Scarif. One Starfortress destroyed a ship 10x as powerful. Big difference.
Caleb Morgan are you really going with that logic when Poe Dameron took out all the turret single handedly. And you focus important targets. You have y wing squadrons attack the freaking cannons and the engines like any smart tactician would do.
I don't think as many people missed it as you think. I, like most others who disliked this scene noticed the homage and appreciated the intent but found it to still be poorly executed into the narrative nevertheless.
The problem is not with the bombs; it's with the slow AF bombers that pretty much are target practice for base-level TIE fighters. Why not use Y-Wings? They're fast and have rocket-propelled bombs, and torpedoes, and an ion cannon - that's a triple threat right there.
Don't understand how people chose the bombers of all things, i immediately assumed they were on tracks being pushed from the top. It's Leia coming through the door without an airlock that got me.
The reason people keep hating on these bombers and not the other things like ships flying like planes in space is because the visual is just so jarring comparing to everything in the Star Wars universe. They are also functionally useless compared to the already established proton torpedoes. It would have been much better if the doors opened on the front of the bombers and they released a massive salvo of missiles/torpedoes from a distance. They way they functioned in the movie meant that no bomber would ever survive its mission by design, even if nobody was shooting at them.
Right until I was 11 pr 12 (been watching these films since I was around 5-6) I wasn't aware of the explosions in the movies, like, there's no oxygen in space, in order to have fire you need air, but yeah.. better late than never.
I was watching empire and in the hoth asteroid scene , two rocks collided and burst into flames for some reason . I had that same "but no air ... " thoughts . But no one flipped out . Buy I guarantee if it was in the last jedi or the new movies , someone would make a 45 minute video explaining in detail why it makes no sense , Kathleen Kennedy should be fired and George lucas' reputation has been destroyed . Well , whatever reputation he had after those same fans smeared and hated him for the prequels
_There are explosions in space, though. There's air inside the ships, and that air pushing outwards as the ship is destroyed would most definitely fuel an explosion._
The reason they didn’t blow up the Hoth base is because they came out of hyperspace too close, allowing them to raise the shields. So they couldn’t do the original plan of bombing from orbit.
You know I don’t really care much about physics and such with Star Wars, interesting but not a necessary part of the films. However I did find it odd how the resistance decided to use those huge death traps for bombers instead of trying to repair those y-wings. I’ve seen them in the episode 9 poster art so I’m interested to see their reasoning.
@@SpecialistFeature Or, that they just didn't _have_ Y-Wings to begin with. The Resistance was even worse off than the Rebellion in that they only received limited support from the Republic who saw them as a bunch of extremists and troublemakers and barely managed to keep the boat floating with Leia's personal funding.
In regards to the Battle of Hoth, the Rebel base was protected by an energy shield so orbital bombardment was impossible. As to why the Empire didn’t attack from all sides and came at them in a straight line; well, the Rebel base is at the end of a valley, flat plains at the front and mountains at the back. The Empire could only come at them in one direction. The Hoth map in the Star Wars Battlefront 2004 game shows an approximate approximation of the battle field albeit in a smaller scale.
I have absolutely no problem with them being unrealistic. Its Star Wars, I don't expect anything to be. The question is, why do these things even exist, when Y-Wings and B-Wings already existed 30 Years before and fullfill the exact same role a dozen times better. Like, seriously, even when they attack a ship that has zero defensive armaments left they still fail to reach their target because of how slow and fragile they are.
I totally get the b-wing idea, but as far as y-wings, the alliance was undermanned and struggling to maintain the 20-year-old y-wings in the civil war, i don't imagine the 50+ year old fighter-bombers would be good to go... But b-wings would have been a great anti-capital ship option for the resistance in this battle
@@sandflapjack Thats not the Point. There is zero reason for the Resistance Bombers to even exist to begin with. Why would someone design a machine that does its Job worse than something from 30 Years ago ? Why would anybody BUY that ?
@@sandflapjack Yes I can't think of a single instance were a military force focused on Hit-and-run tactics and lightning strikes might find extremely slow, unmaneuverable and undurable Bombers usefull. You can't use them when you're target as any kind of Point-Defense Systems, they won't survive when he has fightersupport either. The only reason they even made it to the Dreadnought is because Hux is as competent as a military Leader as my Neighbours dog is, and even then they still all died.
The problem is that Y Wings are just.... So much better, these heavy bombers can deliver one hell of a payload. However they are giant, slow, assumably unshielded targets, the problem I see with them is that they are just bad tech for the situation and we have seen better bombers.
This criticism is both right and extremelyyyyyy wrong. Yes, Y-wing have way better maneuverability BUT have you ever seen a single Y wing take out an entire Star destroyer? The bombers in the last Jedi have the soul purpose of being able to destroy large capital ships. Do you really think Y wings would’ve been able to take out the dreadnaught?
*the giant, slow moving, ineffective, barely shielded AT-AT has entered the chat* At this point, I feel Star Wars tech just follows a “wouldn’t this look cool?” style of thinking. Wouldn’t it be cool to have giant hulking mechs marching slowly towards the Rebels? Wouldn’t it be cool if we had Luke, Han, and Leia walk the plank of a pirate ship looking transport instead of being shot on sight? Wouldn’t it be cool if we found a way to give our heroes a sword despite there being long range weaponry? Wouldn’t it be cool if we show how outmatched the Resistance is by having them use ineffective tech but trying desperately to make it work?
Meirstein yet they survived both wars and were extremely effective. All the resistance had to do was upgrade them a little bit like they did the x wings and a wings. A squadron of them could have taken that dreadnought out in half the time with less casualties. Just like in the clone wars with the melevolence capital ship or the super star destroyer. They can destroy a dreadnaught if they can do that.
Why does everyone always bring up Y-Wings? Those things are slow flying deathtraps. Anakin and a squadron of Y-Wings where unable to destroy the Malevolence. Most of Gold Squadron didn't even make it to the trench at Yavin. Now B-Wings on the other hand just a small group of those can easily handle capital ships as shown in Dagger Squadron.
Yeah it annoys me so much how people were like “bUt tHeReS nO gRaViTy iN sPaCe” even though the ship has gravity. We literally see Page fall to the bottom of the bomb bay.
Well said. The other argument I keep hearing is "why didn't they just use Y-Wings or B-Wings?" Because by the time of the Galactic Civil War, Y-Wings were already old, and a lot of them had already been decommissioned, destroyed, scrapped, etc. And that was established well before The Last Jedi came out. On top of that, the First Order Siege Dreadnought is half the length of the Executor-class Dreadnought. It's a massive ship. A handful of Y-Wings, with like three proton torpedoes each, likely wouldn't have done the trick. The Resistance Bomber was like 90% payload. Just watch the scene where the Resistance Bomber drops the payload. The explosion dwarves the Resistance Bomber, and almost immediately consumes the bomber itself. Y-Wings and B-Wings just wouldn't do the trick. "They why didn't they just use a Free Virgillia-class Bunkerbuster? They had one at D'Qar!" Yes. One. Maybe they could've used it, but could it have gotten the job done? Yes, it's shielded. But those TIE Fighters would've only had one target to worry about. And it only has a payload of three bombs, albeit powerful bombs. But would they have been enough? I doubt it.
Why did they all fly so close together if they knew how easily they would explode? So that Poe can have his arc. But wait, in TFA he didn't get loads of his squadron killed? Hmm. never mind.
@@Ruylopez778 If I'm remembering right, it was Tallie who gave the tight formation order. And she is *young*, like early-twenties young. Inexperienced leaders make mistakes. I think the fact that something does go wrong is pretty much acknowledgement that it was a shitty tactic. Now, Poe didn't have much of an arc in TFA anyway. He was only meant to be a minor character. If I remember correctly, he was originally meant to die when he crashed the TIE on Jakku. But JJ liked Oscar Isaac's performance so much that he had his character return after spending half of the movie without him - so that he could be the new main Resistance pilot. As for his squadron at Starkiller Base, about two thirds of that force got killed just fine on their own, haha
@@eighteen-naked-cowboys I'll go a step farther, in many (but not all, or even necessarily most) cases it isn't even ironic, it's intentional. Some people feel that their favorite thing in the world, which is honestly a bit sacred to them, has been permanently damaged. What was damaged can't be replaced anytime soon, cause they don't just love the movies of Star Wars, but that there was a canon universe for it. Whatever breaks it for them, physics, Luke's arc, or more, there isn't a *universe* they can love anymore, let alone a film. And they can't just like some new films and not others, cause again they only enjoyed the films in the broader context. Some of those people want others to feel just as frustrated as them, because that is the only way to get what they love (a universe with particular constraints on what film creatives can do closer to Marvel's model). The only thing that can fix things for them is a reboot of everything. That could only happen is most fans or even general audiences were as mad as them. I am very much *not*in that camp, and it kinda bums me out to encounter people feeling that way. But I get it, just on an emotional level. If I had the same gripes, and I was attached to the broader universe as strongly as I was particular movies or trilogies, then that response would make sense. It just sucks people feel they can't even enjoy the franchise anymore, but honestly I think the fight is moot and nothing can be gained at this point.
@@Jordan-zk2wd There's monetary gain, the entire backlash against TLJ has practically become a cottage industry, the worst and most insufferable clowns that make daily videos bitching and moaning and nauseam about TLJ and stream themselves checking Pablo Hidalgo and Rian Johnson's Twitter accounts for hours (clearly things totally normal and not crazy people do) while raking ad revenue and Patreon E-begging. And they won't stop because its now their job to be eternally outraged at Star Wars. I've friends that to this day they don't like TLJ and even they are so sick and tired of manbabies complaining daily about Star Wars on RUclips.
Exactly. The most frustrating thing about the scene was that they could have just had fewer of these bombers that are shown to be heavily armored yet slow moving, and carrying a large payload. Have 3 bombers rather than 8 of them, and the first two bombers get destroyed from a sustained barrage of fire from the enemy TIEs, rather than 3 bombers being quickly destroyed from a freak TIE fighter crash (which was the scene that showed just how embarrassingly bad these bombers are).
@@lukerope1906 However, that means destroying 1 Starfortress would hurt more than destroying 1 Y Wing. They could have just deployed swarms of Y Wings instead and gotten the kill without so many losses.
Joe Kerr Joe Kerr yeah I’ve seen this point before and it’s pretty poor, having 52 Y-wings would have been way more effective, they’re faster, more manoeuvrable, put less crew at risk if ones destroyed (1 vs 3), would be harder for ties and gunners to intercept and shoot them and both bombers have gunners, so sorry but that’s a poor excuse in my eyes
I love it how The Last Jedi was the movie where people complained about “scientific inaccuracies” in Star Wars. However nobody batted an eye about the fact that for 42 years, the Millennium Falcon, TIE Fighters, and X-Wings don’t have any wing flaps or anything else that airplanes need in order to turn or maneuver. Between Star Trek and Star Wars, the later has always been about being more fantasy than science fiction and it’s pretty dumb to start talking about scientific inaccuracies this late in the franchise
I’ve always thought about the momentum the bombs would have. I never had a problem with that. I just found it weird how the resistance had to use the slowest moving bombers the galaxy has ever seen. Then again, there are a billion problems with the AT-AT walkers...
@@Ruylopez778 WTF are you talking about? Did you see Poe's moves? Did you see Kylo's attack? The Falcon looked as fast as I've ever seen it. Are you sure you saw the right movie? The slow-moving bombers builds suspense and makes sense given their payload and inspiration. They're meant to have better cover. They're also stealthy. Notice how they appear out-of-nowhere despite moving so slow? They're meant to sneak-up, drop their payload, then jump to hyperspace safety. They're also plenty tough. You can see them take several direct hits from tie-fighters and keep trucking. They're at their most vulnerable right before they drop their payload because they have their bombs armed, their bomb-bay doors open, and their bomb-bay shields down (to let the bombs through). It's at that moment in the movie, that a tie fighter flies directly into the bomb-bay of one of the bombers and causes a cascade of destruction. Paige's ship almost definitely took a thorough beating before delivering its payload.
Joe Kerr - They are great...when they actually manage to reach their target from how slow they are. And assuming they can ever survive that long because of how weakly armored they are. Yeah, great bombers. These bombers are essentially a large bomb payload mounted to a paper ship that moves 1 mph.
AT-ATs are realistically the worst designed tanks in existence they’re literally on easily exploitable and slow moving legs and don’t have any weapons pointing in any direction that isn’t directly straight
My problems with the bombers is how they're so ineffective they are at doing their job like they seem to move as slow as AT-ATs yet seem to have durability of a Tie fighter
@Deamon incarnate when I watch the scene, I don't think "damn these things are durable" I think "well these have paper machee for armour" and why not introduce a new version of the B Wings, during the Original Trilogy they were the Anti capital ship weapons of the rebels
@Deamon incarnate actually I was wondering, why is the first order still using TIE fighters but I haven't seen or heard of any defenders or interceptors
But why use the bombers in the first place. Y wings could have done so much more damage because they wouldn't all get destroyed before they get to the target
@@Video456325 The Starfortress drops the entire payload whenever it bombs a place. Hardly something super grand. Y Wings don't fire off everything and yet they still get the job done. Y Wings can also attack armed targets. Poe explained in the movie that even a single turbolaser left intact would have destroyed the bombing fleet. How in the hell is that a good design for a bomber in space? That means the Rebels would have had to wait for the ships of the First Order to lose EVERY turbolaser and missile silo in order to use them in battle.
@@AstinCrow first of all this is just wrong second the payload that it has the starfortress has a lot like a lot a lot meanwhile the y wing only like what 10 or 20
@@minegaming4526 the space torpedoes the Y Wing carries are able to be controlled for precise hits and hit harder than the individual bombs on the star fortress. Not to mention they carry other payloads too as seen in Star Wars: Squadrons. Secondly, if you are going to tell me I am wrong, find actual facts to back it up. Because you haven't proven it.
It's a pity that the Resistance in The Last Jedi didn't have any ion cannons. Or proton torpedoes. Or guided missiles. It's even more of a pity that the director forgot that if you don't want the audience to ask questions, you don't slow the pace of the movie down by focusing on some very slow, oddly designed ships, whose destruction, and usage, was a critical plot point, and the start of a major character arc. Heck, the Super Star Destroyer Executor in Return of the Jedi looked like it 'sank' when hit. But that was at the end of the film, tying up loose ends. People still complain about it, though. My issue is that the ships were too slow, and the bombs were too slow. We'd literally just seen a turbo-boost engine on Poe's X-Wing. USE IT ON THE BOMBERS. USE IT ON THE BOMBERS.
All good points you make, but Rian had to make Poe reckless at the start for his arc, by making him tactically stupid, just like his character was all through TFA. Remember that? No me neither.
@@Ruylopez778 Oh, I remember Poe being incredibly stupid in The Force Awakens. In fact, I remember wondering why Leia bothered to send such a fool, who got himself captured needlessly, and apparently never got briefed on the fact that Force Users can block blaster bolts. Was this really her 'most trusted operative'? Was it because he's superficially similar to Han Solo, except in every way that's important? Personally, in The Last Jedi, I would have had Poe try his delaying tactic, only for the First Order to kill him immediately. I think that would have sufficiently subverted expectations. Perhaps his character arc could then have belonged to Rey and Chewbacca?
The problem I have is less with whether or not the bombers scientifically make sense. My problem is more a question of why they are using these terrible bombers when they had Y-wings. It feels like Rian Johnson just chose to forget that Y-wings are a thing so that he could jizz WW2 bombers into his movie because he thought it would be cool.
Honestly, i don't think one or two bombs shot by a Y-wing can destrtoy a dreadnought the way 300 huge bombs from the resistance bomber can. If they were easy to take out with 50 year old ships it wouldn't be a threat.
People complain about bombers and gravity is space yet don't complain about lightsabers and the force which is not real. These so called fans that complain about such thing's are not fans at all.
If Star Wars was 100% accurate to real life space science, the clone wars, the galactic civil war, the reclamation war (the name for the sequel trilogy’s conflict for those who don’t know), would all have gone on for hundreds, potentially thousands of years due to time dilation.
Sam.E.A I haven’t seen an official source yet, but I’ve heard fans call it by that name a few times now. It makes sense to me, that’s the First Order’s goal, reclamation of the Empire’s lost power and territory.
So... here's the thing. T he bombs at the bottom of the bomber wouldn't move as quickly as the bombs at the top of the rack bc they would have less time to build speed and momentum, meaning that the bombs that drop later in the payload would just crash into the bombs that drop later. Your explanation doesn't work.
That's not how dropping things works. If they're all released at the same time, they would fall exactly as they do in the movie. They have the exact same amount of time to build up speed as all the other bombs because they're released at the same time and accelerated at the same rate.
Why were they flying in close formation that caused them to all die then???? Why did they replace the y wing with this thing?!! They already had perfectly fine bombers that could move at more than 1 km/h! Look, I get that it’s based of a b17, but honestly these things are shit like the tactics used. Maybe if it was the first Star Wars movie without an established universe and better tactics it could work, but no. “hey it obeys the laws of physics” is by no means a justification for the ship’s existence.
@@blakeb106 yep, the resistance seriously needs some upgraded ships and equipment for episode 9 if they want to stand a chance against Kylo's First Order.
I actually really like all the ships and tech in the sequel trilogy, I think it's all really cool to see stuff that kinda looks like older models but improves on the designs in small increments like one would expect a nation living in relative peace or a government in exile cutting costs in some areas to really focus on others to develop. Idk fictional military tech is really cool
@@SynthVoice if you're expecting them to fill the same roll, absolutely. They're slow, fragile, require a larger crew, etc. The Y-wing is my favorite ship in star wars, nothing will ever compare. However, I can see it having a specialized roll as an atmospheric bomber, whose purpose its to target ground units instead of capital ships. In this sense, it outclasses the Y-Wing in the payload it can deliver, and the sheer amount of damage it could do to an enemy base or army is unrivaled. Of course being as desperate for resources as they were, I can see the resistance trying to fit the square peg in a round hole and attempt to use the bomber in a way it's not intended.
Not to mention the fact that the bombers weren’t actually bombers but cargo ships that were used to drop care packages on planets in need, so when the war started those ships were the only things they had.
Where did you read that? starwars.fandom.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17 shows them to be 100% military design, with a mention that they were used in civilian applications later.
goldfishprime Thank you for the clarification! I got this information from discussions and it made more sense than the canon explanation since as a military vehicle it kind of sucks lol
I would never complain about the physics, however I will still say those bombers are dumb when compared with Y-wings or B-wings which seem superior in everyway.
@@Kunx990 Lol. No. I have never seen 9 casualties caused by a single Tie-fighter crashing. Y's can even survive when there are cannons left shoot at them. Just because it's dumd to criticize the physics doesn't mean it's not equally as dumb trying to defend those trashy bombers
@@Kunx990 Well, that's not the main discussion. And... So? Only 2-3 X-wings made it too and they are supposed to be one of the best ships. The point here is put an Anakin quality pilot in a Y and put the same in one of the LJ bombers. Who has more chances of survival? Ys are far better despite they might not be the best ship in the fleet. And also, I will remind you: Ys served during the clone wars. Older and yet, better. But just as we have new versions of Xs and As they could have made Ys even better and not use LJ trash.
These bombers still suck, I don't care about the science being wrong, I'm just saying that these bombers are the equivalent of the red explosive barrels in FPS games.
@@saltysnowflake5832 Why is everything else modern then? Their A-Wings, X-Wings, capital ships, but they have these tin foil bombers that wouldn't have been useful 60 years ago in universe?
@@saltysnowflake5832 True, but it is still stupid, there were countless numbers of bombers that have existed before these. There's just no way that they wouldn't be able to find a few Tie Bombers, Y-Wings, or Hyena Bombers? All of them are outdated as well and the Resistence bombers were outdated well before the Clone Wars.
So I’m guessing the Resistance aren’t using Y-Wings because they’re either obsolete or they’ve all been destroyed and they ran out of resources to produce more.
My head canon explanation for the weird design of the resistance bombers is that it's actually designed as a mine laying starship. It looks like it would be good at going out and setting up a whole bunch of space mines in non-combat scenarios where it's slow speed isn't so much of an issue.
Also, there IS gravity in space. If the ships were in orbit around the planet that would be different, but the planets appear to be still, soooo there should be gravity. I have no problem with this scene. People are just reaching for any reason to confirm their hatred for the movie.
If Poe knows the bombers are slow and blow up so easily why does he have them fly so close together? So that audience know Poe is reckless, part of the plot. The problem with that scene is it's trying too hard to make Poe look stupid.
@@merchantaudioproductions Never said I hated the movie. Nitpick is pedantic fault finding. But Poe is tactically wrong here, which is in contrast with who he was in TFA. It's clearly out of character for the sake of the plot. You're saying because you have no problem with it, it's nitpicking. George didn't have any problems with the prequels. People were nitpicking?
@@Ruylopez778 My reply was about gravity in space and about people finding excuses to hate TLJ, you are the one who posted about a problem you have with Poe. how else am I supposed to read that? You lead me to assume you hate TLJ. Anyways, I don't really care either way. I'm excited for the next movie! have a great day.
@@merchantaudioproductions Your original comment was there is gravity in space, so as you had no problem with the scene, an alternative opinion critical of the scene is irrational. So I gave you an alternative reason why people might dislike it, because every fan is an individual capable of their own ideas. And then you concluded that I am irrational based on your rigid assumption that all criticism is only used to justify hatred. It would be easier to agree that movies are subjective and anyone can dislike a scene or beat without an agenda. What you're doing is justifying the right to dismiss criticism that you disagree with. Just like many people love the movie don't love the canto bight part. Are they irrational? The last sentence "people are just reaching" is exactly the sort of comment that just prolongs the debate, rather than move on. But I've noticed people in the comments here go out of there way to belittle some fans and also claim that this channel is so positive. I hope you enjoy everything that happens in IX
I tweeted this idea at Pablo Hidalgo and he directly confirmed it. I didn’t like the movie, but this was incredibly obvious to me. It could technically launch the bombs in any direction in space.
I love all vehicles & vessels of Star Wars. I like the Resistance Bomber, pretty cool to me. Anybody says otherwise, I respect your opinion, don't be an idiot about it.
I remember reading a pablo hidalgo tweet that said something about this. Like they chose to make it magnetized since the bombs at the top of the bomber would fall faster in space since they picked up more speed in the artificial gravity.
The fact that these ships were so slow and exploded as soon as they were shot at, and they dropped little racks of dumb, unguided gravity bombs-all of this made the scene seem so stupid and unentertaining.
I'm more shocked about the apparent lack of deflector shields on that First Order Dreadnought. That thing is 7 km long, has only a couple dozens turrets to defend itself, and is seemingly made out of paper.
The AT-AT attack on hoth wasn’t poor planning because of the planetary shield they couldn’t do an orbital bombardment and they had to deploy outside the edge of the shield, not nit picking just saying
@@deadshot5007 Right. Barely any of the Empire's arsenal was deployed on Hoth beyond AT-ATs when they were attacking the Rebel Alliance's main base. But no one cares because we love those movies.
The shield prevents fast moving object (ships, missiles, etc...) from passing through. Echo Base's shield was '...Strong enough to deflect any bombardment.' Also the enemy is dug into a mountain... not much room to flank that.
Not to mention that they're still in orbit around a planet which has a gravitational pull. Gravity doesn't stop working just because you're in space. You could build a skyscraper on earth all the way up to the international space station and you'd be able to stand on top of it. You wouldn't just float away
It's become a cottage industry to do that. The bitch boys doing daily videos on RUclips about Star Wars and Captain Marvel have turned being a crybaby troll and outrage peddler into a job, it's not monetarily viable for them to stop complaining.
@@williamwebb580 no the point people got really triggered over Captain Marvel by the anti sjw and this can not be stated enough anti sjw are the new sjw
Or AT-ATs, or the fact that in space there shouldn't be any sound or explosions, or that Lightsabers are virtually impossible to create, or that it makes no sense for a Cyborg with artificial enhancements and preserved organs to cough, or that ships can't move in space the same way they do on the earth. If you wanna pick apart Star Wars and not be a hypocrite you gotta do it to ALL Star Wars, including the Original trilogy.
The shield generator at hoth stopped imperial air units or speeder from going through so they had to deploy the walkers outside the shield perimeter and would have to really on them as the only support for their troops until they took out the shield generator
Now hold up. If the bombs fall by gravity, when they leave the gravitational pull, the momentum they have will continue but not gain. So using that logic, the bombs at the top would catch up with the bombs on the bottom before they reach their target. And as for why we have problems with things like lightspeed ramming is because there are rules established in a cinematic universe. So when something like lightspeed ramming comes up, then the question arises as to why hasn’t it been used before, and why ever bother having big ships if this is the case. This is similar to the bombers in the last Jedi, why use something so ineffective and just an overall terrible design when something like the y wings are available, which have been proven to be much more effective? I personally am fine with the resistance having older tech since they seem to be just reusing a stockpile of equipment from the galactic civil war.
Your logic on bombs doesn't make any sense. If a bomb is dropped from artificial gravity into no gravity at 5 mph or whatever speed they drop, and another drops 5 feet behind it, they're not going to catch up to each other. They're simply going to stay 5 feet apart until they hit something, or their trajectory is changed by something, at the very same speed they left the gravity field at. There's no atmosphere, (or very little in one of my theories as to why Leia didn't freeze on one side and burn on the other facing solar radiation, and why there are explosions in _the vacuum of space),_ and no resistance against their movement toward their target, and even if there is resistance, it would be the same for each bomb, slowing each one at the same rate, which is also negligible. Now, if they were magnetic, the attraction of one would pull another into it, or even back into the ship that dropped them. When you combine two subjects in one paragraph, it becomes confusing to the reader. The light-speed ramming has been explained before, in the OT, when HAN says hyperspace ain't like dusting crops - you're likely to fly into a star or a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick... I'm not going to look up the exact quote again, so take that however you will - close enough for me. It also makes sense that it's not a "tactic" for many reasons. Having big ships is aesthetics. They look fuk'n cool and intimidating. At that close range, she can definitely hit a target and there are two reasons I can think of off the top of my head that she would be able to hit it. The first, if she hasn't even reached light speed at that distance, it would make contact, and even if it were shielded leads me to the second point. If the ship is using hyperspace technology to track the ships, the shield would be open to hyperspace anomalies, being partially in hyperspace and partially not, or phasing, (kind of like Han explains the "refresh rate" of the shield protecting SKB).
If your sitting in the theater, watching the movie for the first time having an open mind, and you see something blatantly obvious like that, wouldn’t you think you’d be able to complain? I don’t want to read a picture book after the movie comes out to understand why.
My gripes with The Last Jedi have nothing to do with technology or scientific accuracy. My complaints are about how certain characters were written and handled. One example would be Rose Tico. I feel like the character could have been written better. That said, I believe the actress did a great job, considering what she had to work with. I'm actually fine with how Luke was handled. Also, I feel like Holdo could have said something to Poe, like, "How do you think they tracked us? There must be a mole." I feel like adding that when she meets Poe, would have justified almost everything else that many fans had a problem with, especially the Cantobite arc. Sorry about how long this comment is. Have a nice day @hellogreedo
The most important thing to remember is the 19th Rule of Aquisition; Satisfaction is not guaranteed. You buy cut-rate garbage you can expect sub-optimal performance.
Great video! Yeah I think Star Wars fans are rarely consistent with their criticisms. Also the Empire couldn’t attack the rebels on Hoth from their star destroyers because of the shield generator protecting them. I’m sure you knew that and just misspoke.
Why did they kill General Akbar in the way they did? Why was Canto Bite so drawn out? Why did they destroy the arc set up for Rey in the previous movie? Why did they simply tell and not truly show Luke’s actions that led him to where he was? Why was Hux all of a sudden a comedy of errors when several hours before he was an insane figure that Snoke respected? Why did they seek to totally up end Luke’s character - a figure in which many revere - for the sake of being subversive with nothing to show for it but Mark Hamill’s disapproval, millions of angry and sad fans, and his literal character death? Why did Rian Johnson choose to cut the thirty second clip of Luke reacting to Hans death? Listen, I watched the movie three times. The first time left me shell shocked. The second left me with a much better opinion. The third left me angry because I could no longer make excuses for the many gaping holes due to Johnson’s script. It is totally fine if someone likes this movie. That is not a bad thing, if anything that is wonderful! But there are many legitimate questions that reveal the many errors this movie made, which is why so many people hate it. The one thing I can definitively say I was so intrigued by was the connection Rey and Kylo had. But even that plot idea was destroyed in the throne room scene. And don’t even get me started on the consequences of the Holdo maneuver.
@@joshuabenton3785 Im sorry to say but Akbar was never a important role in the franchise. It was more important to focus on other and more important roles.
@@joshuabenton3785 Yes canto bight may not have added to the plot but it was a much needed addition to the franchise. We got to see another side of the galaxy that we had never seen before in the movies. Also the sub-plot failed. Their aim was to successfully catch the code breaker, but they failed. The whole movie is about failure. So yes, while the sub plot may not of added much to the overall story it added a new side to the SW galaxy and reflected on what was going on in the rest of the movie.
@@joshuabenton3785 Luke was ashamed of who he was. Of course he would try to change it to make him look slightly better. The movie focuses a lot on balance. Luke told one story and Ben told the other, and then the final flashback brings balance to the story.
Literally the very first thing the entire Star Wars franchise ever did was violate Newton's first law. There is absolutely no reason for a Star Destroyer's engine to be running hot when traveling through empty space because there's no drag in a vacuum.
Here's a "logical" explanation for the bombers: 1) They have stealth tech. They don't need to be fast because they're meant to sneak up on a target, drop a massive payload, then jump to hyperspace. You can see this in the movie where they seemingly come out of nowhere once Po clears the point-defenses. 2) They're actually very tough but have a very small and devastating weak-point for a brief period of time. You can see the ships take several consecutive hits from tie fighters in the movie, something we don't see many ships survive. However, right before they're ready to drop their payload, they have over 1,000 armed bombs and an open bomb-bay door. In the movie, that's the precise moment a tie fighter flies right up INTO the bomb-bay of one of the bombers causing a cascade of destruction. 3) They are 100% bad ass looking ships that totally fit the WW II aesthetic of Star Wars, a franchise that has always embraced the "rule of cool".
Luckily, The Force doesn't violate any of the known laws of physics.
Incredible comment
"That is not how the Force works!"
"According to all known laws of space aviation, there is no way that a bomb should be able to fall."
- Bee Movie, 2007
The bombs aren't a complaint about physics, its a complaint about consistency. Why use these slow bombers that have to be right on top of the target and for some reason have literally no defense when you can run in a small team of Y wings for the same effect? Why were these even designed in the first place when Y wings already existed?
@@SrgntSprnkls77 why did they use heavy bombers like the B-17 in WW2? When fighter/bombers like the P-47 where so successful? Oh yes, one carries way more bombs.
Remember that one scene in Empire with TIE Bombers dropping bombs on the asteroid to flush out the Falcon? Pepperidge Farm remembers...
I don't see this mentioned enough somehow
I know Nym and Separtists did have Bomber Ships have Bombers in the Legends video game Star Wars Starfighter and Jedi Starfighter as well.
Except the asteroid was large enough to have gravity (Han and crew walking around inside the 'cave')
@@gospyro By that same token, when we see the bombs drop in TLJ and how close it is to the much bigger planet, with therefore much more powerful gravity, just seeing that they drop should be enough. Either way, one scene shouldn't be overly criticized while the other gets a free pass when they both have the same issue, essentially...
A lot of the "issues" with Last Jedi tend to have that, actually.
Discussing physics in Star Wars is pretty much a waste of time, that being said... the ships in TLJ were (more or less) in orbit, making the gravitational force of the planet moot relative to everything (ships, bombs etc). If you are in orbit and dropped something it doesn't fall rapidly towards the planet, it continues in orbit. @@Tayvin4042
Plus the bombs did not fall towards the planet, but towards the dreadnaught.
There are SO many things wrong with that entire 'battle' and the entire concept behind that slow motion chase that the bombers and bombs are pretty much the least stupid thing.
The TIE bombers in ESB were, relatively speaking, quite close to the asteroid.
"But there's no gwabity in space " - cinemasins
Manga Fruit Which 90% of their fans don’t seem to understand
THE FUEL REEEE
@@shelfherder It's not a nitpick, though. It's WRONG.
Correct. But that ship would create a gravity field that the bombs were being dropped on. So you are correct, there is no gravity in space.
That channel has really gone down hill
Sci-fi=Science that makes sense.
Space opera=“Science” that looks cool
Future fantasy= fantasy that has replaces magic with technology
Science Fantasy also applies to Star Wars; the whole thing is essentially an epic fantasy on the same grounds as Lord of the Rings but taken to space because Lucas is a fan and loves Flash Gordon and John Carter.
Nah. Space opera is science fiction that deals with a space empires and politics and conflicts on a massive scale and tons of melodrama. You can do the science in space operas as hard as The Expance of the Nightdawn trilogy, or mostly non-existant like Star Wars. The term Space Opera is more escriptive of the plot than it is of the style of story-telling used.
The best science!
@@SeanMurphy1090-d5u
A lot of sci-fi really does. Star Wars doesn't even pretend though.
Torpedo makes a 90 degree turn: nobody cares
Bombs fall in space: everyone freaks out
@Dread StarZ The fuel came out of nowhere and prior to the Galaxy acted as if fuel wasn't really that important. All of a sudden it became a huge deal.
@@AstinCrow Why would anyone think that ships were fuel-less? Vehicles need some type of fuel to run, period. Fuel is brought up many times in The Clone Wars and Rebels. This argument makes no sense.
@@themetalstickman to add on to that, if the ships run out of fuel, they can no longer accelerate, so they would continue traveling at their speed since no other force is acting on them. The First Order ships could still accelerate, however, which would allow them to catch up. Hence the fuel still makes sense.
@@themetalstickman It was brought up, but never as a problem. In the Clone Wars, it was never a problematic resource, even for pirates and the like. (Also, that "universal rule" isn't necessarily true in SW). Now all of a sudden hyper fuel is extremely precious. In the Solo movie, it was crucial to spacers to get hyper fuel in any way they can and even the Empire was hunting for it. It completely botched the precedented setting that didn't worry about it. Even in the Phantom Menace the Naboo survivors were worried about a broken hyperdrive, not hyperfuel.
Dread StarZ The speeds of the ships were set up as a rule in the universe since the first movie, so that’s not really comparable. Though momentum, unfortunately, has always been treated loosely in Star Wars. So that’s no new problem.
Funny thing is, people complain about these bombers being unrealistic when spaceships in Star Wars fly around like WW2 planes in an atmosphere when there's no atmosphere or gravity in space. - Typed this before watching the rest of the video.
resistance bombers are literally pointless when the past showed bombers like the y-wing. it's like technology went backwards. thats why it didnt work for me. not because of "scientific accuracy". i think its pretty clear most star wars fans are not neil degrasse tyson.
@@blocpartyrocker they carry 1,048 bombs. You would need 52.4 Y-wings to carry that number of bombs.
Were there Y-wings in that battle?
Leia lost a lot of support before that battle and sh!t got worse for the Resistance as things progress, so I completely understand why they had to use stupid humor and a very off tactic to distract the First Order in order to even try anything with sh!t bombers. That's all they had.
Actually that is why like TIE fighters, yeah Szputnyik was the core idea, but they non-aerodinamicals because don't have to!
Dread StarZ wow, pretty good stuff. they just move like snails and give off a very archaic vibe to me
When ever I bring up the Tie Bomers in Empire, people will shout UHM WEHLL ITS OBVIOUS THE BOMBS WERE ACTUALLY PROPELLED FROM INSIDE.
uhm...how is it obvious? You get NO explanation for it in the movie, they literally just drop down. In TLJ, you actually get to see them inside the ship, and see how they are launched.
PlayCebo Vision They have chutes at the bottom
_Those are proton bombs that are propelled downwards. These are just balls that somehow ignore gravity entirely._
It also makes sense for the Resistance to actually use these bombers instead of things such as Y-wings. After all, the Dreadnaught hull is extraordinarily strong, the payload of the Resistance bombers is literally 1,048 bombs, and they still need to hit the Dreadnaught hull in the right spot. And what is the payload of the y-wing? 8, and they can only shoot two at a time. To get across the point, that would mean that you would need your y-wing to do 524 bombing runs what the Resistance bomber could do in about thirty seconds, and without having to restock torpedos every three runs
That one guy- But but but but greedo, the bay doors on the bottom of the ship were open, so not only are the bombs now in the vacuum of space, the pilot should literally be dead since she's not wearing an oxygen mask. Do you even science???
*conveniently ignores the scene from rogue one where darth vader is able to watch the ship detach in open space, and also his cape is waving like there's wind.
In fact, that's an interesting bit of technology I've noticed in *all* the Star Wars movies, but never heard mentioned: the air containment fields on all the open hangars and docking facilities in space. These things allow ships and other solid objects through them (like Kylo Ren's torpedoes in The Last Jedi) but not air. Like artificial gravity and auralizers (the radio plays' explanation for why you're hearing noises from all those ships in outer space even though there shouldn't be any sound there), the technology's so common that no one ever seems to have any reason to comment on it.
The bombers aren't impossible, they're just really badly designed. Seriously, who thought slow moving ships of that size, especially ships containing a large number of explosives, could possibly go well?
It didnt.
@@sandflapjack what does that mean?
@@VyvyantOH using those bombers literally didnt go well. thats the point.
@@sandflapjack I know they didn't work, but watching the movie I didn't expect them to work. I almost think someone sabotaged them with shitty designs
But why have a slow bomber when they had Y wings 50 years ago
Sebastian Urquidi that bomber held like a hundred bombs. That would be too much for y wings. Maybe they didn't have enough. Or the first order ship's weakpoint could only be blown up if too many bombs blow in an instant. Just be creative 😃
because everyone loves ships in SW moving slowly like all the previous SW movies. slow x-wing, slow TIE, slow Y-wing, slow Falcon, and Poe has to look reckless because of his arc, just like how he was in TFA. Or wasn't.
@@somecommenter4256 Be creative? Have you seen how Solo gets his name?
People have a problem with bombs falling in space but don't have problem with fire and sound in space?
Or the fact that it's a movie franchise about Space Wizards intended for kids but with universal appeal.
Or hand-held devices that can contain plasma energy in a blade-like shape? Or hundred-meter-long starships made of metal that can move in the gravitational well of a planet without getting crushed by their own weight?
@@Falxifer95 Wouldn't that also apply to those who say that it's a "flawless philosophical masterpiece that those hate this film aren't TrUe StAr WaRs FaNs?"
TheSlayFer Ch. T. Dude star wars is for everyone, stop regulating it down to some fucking kids show, in this movie there are multiple attempts at showing gray morality like with the code breaker showing that the ship owner has sold weapons to the bad guys” and the “good guys”, something that would clearly fly over the head of a “kid” target audience, stop trying to regulate this franchise to that level to support your idiotic claims
@@Falxifer95 So just because it's a kids movie it's allowed to have shit writting? Such a bad argument and kind of an insult to the intelligence of children.
Greedo, have you forgotten that the rebels had shield around their base on Hoth? That's why the Empire couldn't do a planetary bombardment...
I guess they could always penetrate the shield if they wanted to.
I wasn't sure if he meant orbital bombardment or just sending fighters down to bomb the generator from the skies.
Also, new thought: why didn't the Empire send down fighters to escort the AT-ATs like the First Order did in TLJ?
@@SuperScarface83 AT-AT's were enough, they won anyways.
@@SuperScarface83 They did...not shown in movie but there was actually fight in the air - x-wings vs tie-fighters...a little more far from base tho...yes it was added after movie but so was many explanations to TLJ so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@mikedoge5559 Good to know. Come to think of it, was that something depicted in the Rogue Squadron games?
Also, I don't mind the after-the-fact explanation. Without question, Star Wars is built on those.
this is one the dumbest complaints i've heard.
It's pretty ironic seeing as how everyone with that complaint bring science up as if they're whizes or something.
And that's ONE of a myriad dumb complaints.
And sadly it's one of the main ones people have.
I don't know which one is more stupid: the complaint about bombs dropping in space, or the complaint about Snoke's bodyguards fighting Kylo and Rey after Snoke was dead.
Honestly, I refuse to believe that anyone is stupid enough to not understand either of those.
Your comment is one of the dumbest ones I've ever heard. 🤷♂️
(Even though I know someone could just continue the cycle now with this one lol)
If you're gonna complain about physics in a film's universe in which people move shit with their hands (without picking them up), then maybe you're in the wrong franchise. *speaking in general here, just to clarify*
Why would they use these slow ass bombers when 30 yrs ago they were using objectively better bombers (i.e the y-wing)
Andrew Waples yeah but the force is included in the laws of the SW universe, breaking our rules is ok but breaking in universe rules hurts the films
lol, "laws of the SW universe" I'd love to read that book. rolls eyes. So, filmmakers are never allowed to expand the universe because of "laws"?@@aaronstark1969
@Andrew Waples....well yes... If you show the audience that planets have gravity, you can't go on in the second movie claiming that no planet has gravity. There is no book on the laws of SW but you can figure them out by using your eyes. TLJ bombers break the law of gravity (if they us that) or the law of electromagnetics (if they use that law instead)
My biggest complaint is that they already made the B-Wing bombers for long-ranged bombing runs. They literally downgraded in the sequels.
And in Empire Strikes Back, they couldn't do orbital bombardment because of the shield. They had to send a strike team to destroy the shield generators before glassing could be possible.
As a fan of The Last Jedi, i thought this was one of the weakest complaints I had to defend the film for...
It barely counts as a pointless nitpick it's just moronic.
Yep. Think if people want to discuss pacing or tone things like that it seems fair. The movie does have some issues with that imo. But saying it sucks because you cant wrap your head around one tiny thing in a giant sci-fi battle is ridiculous.
I've been countering this dumb nitpick since the film came out. The pilot falls down the bomb shaft, clearly showing an artificial gravity in the bomb bay. Nobody cares.
She pushes the button to release the bombs in the exact same bomb bay she fell down, people freak the f*** out.
Skye Moyer It’s irritating...the movie has a lot of great stuff in it that people won’t acknowledge because of nitpicking. The movie has legit problems...but this isn’t one of them
The same level as complain about Supremacy curve shots....
GUYS, IT'S JUST LOOK COOL AND THAT IS!
When I found hello greedos youtube channel
Me- finally some good ****ing options
That’s why we’re here :)
CoolCatStudios When I found hello greedos channel
I saw Raw untamed power
And beyond that
Something truly special
Exactly
_Eh, I'm not seeing anything special._
I finally found a Star Wars fan channel that never criticize Star Wars and only unapologetically praises it. Yay!
2:33 They couldn't orbitally bombard hoth because of the shield generator. That was kind of the focal point of the entire battle. Also im pretty sure they only came from one direction because echo base was built into the side of a mountain so its flank might have too rough of terrain
Well they could’ve just flown a Star Destroyer into the atmoshphere and then bombarded the Rebels
@@patrickfrancis9245 then they would have shot the ion canon at it and it would be too close to the ground to recover before it crashes
Pickles og Well some ships had to come into the atmosphere to drop off the AT-ATs, so couldn’t they have fired the ion cannon on the landing ships if that were the case?
Marebb Movielover Very true, and something I really don’t care about at the end of the day. It’s just fun to talk about the nitty gritty and think about the smaller details sometimes.
@@patrickfrancis9245yeah thats why the walkers were so far away, they were probably dropped out of range
I don’t care if it makes sense or not. The problem about that scene is that it was so unimaginative... I can’t believe with all they had a WW2 bombing sequence is all they come up with
In Ship There was gravity - they fall like she fell and this bomb controller - When bombs were out in space - they kept falling down.
I dont know how people still call this nonsense..
And it was very risky hard tactic. But one bomber destroyed ship that was 20X its size.
Never understood this complaint to begin with... Not only gravity, but I already guessed they were magnetic when I saw the movie in theater... I thought it was obvious when the lights switched on the bombs.
I feel complaints like these are just nit picks people try to use to justify their hatred or dislike of the movie... To prove a point. Thing is you don't need to nitpick crap to justify your opinion, there is plenty of legitimate issues to be had with the movie... Nitpicking about a non issue like "bombers in space" just makes you look petty.
If people had just said they didn’t like the movie, that’s perfectly fine and normal. There were definitely problems with the movie (as there are in every Star Wars movie in my opinion) but it’s the things people complain about that just tells me they don’t have legitimate reasons for hating it. More than likely they went into the theater already hating the movie so they found every little thing to nitpick at.
Andre Ransom you completely encapsulated what I was going to say with much more eloquence. Well said
ruclips.net/video/36o0F9H9bhU/видео.html
2:33 “or just blowing the shit out of the Rebel base from the sky”
General Maximilian Veers: “The shield is strong enough to deflect any bombardment “
Pound on it hard enough.. It'll crack.
Biosynthnut sure let’s just use that strategy for everything. Like 5 guys armed with at most assault riffles against a tank
@@MrRed88 Anti tank rounds?
Biosynthnut negative. We’re going by your logic so regular bullets
@@MrRed88 Then the point of this vid went over your head.
People complaining about the bombs in TLJ is just another example of fans nitpicking and finding issues in the film when there isn’t one. Star Wars hasn’t ever given a damn about physics in space. In the end, people want as many reasons as possible to stay irrationally bitter about one movie for as long as possible.
This.
One of the things I think people miss is the homage RJ was paying to the courageous heavy bomber crews in WWII. Even the venerable B-17 was highly vulnerable as it was slower and far less maneuverable than the fighters it needed to defend itself against. Many were lost exactly the way it happened in TLJ. When the fighter hit the bomb bay of the Starfortress, the bombs were armed. Mid air collisions were not uncommon and the formations were kept tight to allow planes to cover each other, but that also made it likely to lose multiple planes at a time. It happened more often than people realize, and that scene is more realistic than people would believe. Set that flight over Bremen or Stuttgart 75 years ago and it would be a similar story.
Caleb Morgan you see homage it not its till dumb when everything in these movies is reused and updated rebel tec. So why in the hell would they keep the a wing and x wing and scrap the y wing and b wing? Which the y wing is still there because it’s in the episode 9 poster so we know they had it. It’s just lazy story telling.
Maestro Jeffay because they’re dealing with hand me downs and donations. The Resistance is actually in far worse shape than the Rebellion because they are pulling tech from a demilitarized Republic, while the Rebellion had Clone Wars tech to pull on. Besides which, Ywings and Bwings wouldn’t have dinged that Dreadnaught. 5 Ywings only disabled an ISD at Scarif. One Starfortress destroyed a ship 10x as powerful. Big difference.
Caleb Morgan are you really going with that logic when Poe Dameron took out all the turret single handedly. And you focus important targets. You have y wing squadrons attack the freaking cannons and the engines like any smart tactician would do.
I don't think as many people missed it as you think. I, like most others who disliked this scene noticed the homage and appreciated the intent but found it to still be poorly executed into the narrative nevertheless.
The problem is not with the bombs; it's with the slow AF bombers that pretty much are target practice for base-level TIE fighters. Why not use Y-Wings? They're fast and have rocket-propelled bombs, and torpedoes, and an ion cannon - that's a triple threat right there.
Don't understand how people chose the bombers of all things, i immediately assumed they were on tracks being pushed from the top.
It's Leia coming through the door without an airlock that got me.
The reason people keep hating on these bombers and not the other things like ships flying like planes in space is because the visual is just so jarring comparing to everything in the Star Wars universe. They are also functionally useless compared to the already established proton torpedoes. It would have been much better if the doors opened on the front of the bombers and they released a massive salvo of missiles/torpedoes from a distance. They way they functioned in the movie meant that no bomber would ever survive its mission by design, even if nobody was shooting at them.
Right until I was 11 pr 12 (been watching these films since I was around 5-6) I wasn't aware of the explosions in the movies, like, there's no oxygen in space, in order to have fire you need air, but yeah.. better late than never.
I was watching empire and in the hoth asteroid scene , two rocks collided and burst into flames for some reason . I had that same "but no air ... " thoughts . But no one flipped out .
Buy I guarantee if it was in the last jedi or the new movies , someone would make a 45 minute video explaining in detail why it makes no sense , Kathleen Kennedy should be fired and George lucas' reputation has been destroyed .
Well , whatever reputation he had after those same fans smeared and hated him for the prequels
_There are explosions in space, though. There's air inside the ships, and that air pushing outwards as the ship is destroyed would most definitely fuel an explosion._
The reason they didn’t blow up the Hoth base is because they came out of hyperspace too close, allowing them to raise the shields. So they couldn’t do the original plan of bombing from orbit.
You know I don’t really care much about physics and such with Star Wars, interesting but not a necessary part of the films.
However I did find it odd how the resistance decided to use those huge death traps for bombers instead of trying to repair those y-wings. I’ve seen them in the episode 9 poster art so I’m interested to see their reasoning.
They didn't have access to them at the moment. There. Five seconds of imagination.
Quinn-G they left with everything they could take with them in time. My guess is just that they didn’t have time to repair y-wings.
But you do you
@@SpecialistFeature Or, that they just didn't _have_ Y-Wings to begin with. The Resistance was even worse off than the Rebellion in that they only received limited support from the Republic who saw them as a bunch of extremists and troublemakers and barely managed to keep the boat floating with Leia's personal funding.
In regards to the Battle of Hoth, the Rebel base was protected by an energy shield so orbital bombardment was impossible. As to why the Empire didn’t attack from all sides and came at them in a straight line; well, the Rebel base is at the end of a valley, flat plains at the front and mountains at the back. The Empire could only come at them in one direction.
The Hoth map in the Star Wars Battlefront 2004 game shows an approximate approximation of the battle field albeit in a smaller scale.
I have absolutely no problem with them being unrealistic. Its Star Wars, I don't expect anything to be.
The question is, why do these things even exist, when Y-Wings and B-Wings already existed 30 Years before and fullfill the exact same role a dozen times better. Like, seriously, even when they attack a ship that has zero defensive armaments left they still fail to reach their target because of how slow and fragile they are.
I totally get the b-wing idea, but as far as y-wings, the alliance was undermanned and struggling to maintain the 20-year-old y-wings in the civil war, i don't imagine the 50+ year old fighter-bombers would be good to go... But b-wings would have been a great anti-capital ship option for the resistance in this battle
Maybe they just...didnt have them?
@@sandflapjack Thats not the Point. There is zero reason for the Resistance Bombers to even exist to begin with. Why would someone design a machine that does its Job worse than something from 30 Years ago ? Why would anybody BUY that ?
@@ironvader502 Can you conceive of a single instance where a slow moving bomber would be useful? I can.
@@sandflapjack Yes I can't think of a single instance were a military force focused on Hit-and-run tactics and lightning strikes might find extremely slow, unmaneuverable and undurable Bombers usefull. You can't use them when you're target as any kind of Point-Defense Systems, they won't survive when he has fightersupport either. The only reason they even made it to the Dreadnought is because Hux is as competent as a military Leader as my Neighbours dog is, and even then they still all died.
The problem is that Y Wings are just.... So much better, these heavy bombers can deliver one hell of a payload. However they are giant, slow, assumably unshielded targets, the problem I see with them is that they are just bad tech for the situation and we have seen better bombers.
This criticism is both right and extremelyyyyyy wrong. Yes, Y-wing have way better maneuverability BUT have you ever seen a single Y wing take out an entire Star destroyer? The bombers in the last Jedi have the soul purpose of being able to destroy large capital ships. Do you really think Y wings would’ve been able to take out the dreadnaught?
*the giant, slow moving, ineffective, barely shielded AT-AT has entered the chat*
At this point, I feel Star Wars tech just follows a “wouldn’t this look cool?” style of thinking. Wouldn’t it be cool to have giant hulking mechs marching slowly towards the Rebels? Wouldn’t it be cool if we had Luke, Han, and Leia walk the plank of a pirate ship looking transport instead of being shot on sight? Wouldn’t it be cool if we found a way to give our heroes a sword despite there being long range weaponry? Wouldn’t it be cool if we show how outmatched the Resistance is by having them use ineffective tech but trying desperately to make it work?
@@Denzel_Greene True, the only problem is, it's not cool at all. If so, people(or at least less people) won't be complain that much.
Y-wings were ancient. They were built during the Clone Wars, and barely kept together by rebel mechanics.
Meirstein yet they survived both wars and were extremely effective. All the resistance had to do was upgrade them a little bit like they did the x wings and a wings. A squadron of them could have taken that dreadnought out in half the time with less casualties. Just like in the clone wars with the melevolence capital ship or the super star destroyer. They can destroy a dreadnaught if they can do that.
Why does everyone always bring up Y-Wings? Those things are slow flying deathtraps. Anakin and a squadron of Y-Wings where unable to destroy the Malevolence. Most of Gold Squadron didn't even make it to the trench at Yavin.
Now B-Wings on the other hand just a small group of those can easily handle capital ships as shown in Dagger Squadron.
My problem was the slow ass speed. Where are the Y-Wings?
Yeah it annoys me so much how people were like “bUt tHeReS nO gRaViTy iN sPaCe” even though the ship has gravity. We literally see Page fall to the bottom of the bomb bay.
Well said. The other argument I keep hearing is "why didn't they just use Y-Wings or B-Wings?"
Because by the time of the Galactic Civil War, Y-Wings were already old, and a lot of them had already been decommissioned, destroyed, scrapped, etc. And that was established well before The Last Jedi came out.
On top of that, the First Order Siege Dreadnought is half the length of the Executor-class Dreadnought. It's a massive ship. A handful of Y-Wings, with like three proton torpedoes each, likely wouldn't have done the trick.
The Resistance Bomber was like 90% payload. Just watch the scene where the Resistance Bomber drops the payload. The explosion dwarves the Resistance Bomber, and almost immediately consumes the bomber itself. Y-Wings and B-Wings just wouldn't do the trick.
"They why didn't they just use a Free Virgillia-class Bunkerbuster? They had one at D'Qar!" Yes. One. Maybe they could've used it, but could it have gotten the job done? Yes, it's shielded. But those TIE Fighters would've only had one target to worry about. And it only has a payload of three bombs, albeit powerful bombs. But would they have been enough? I doubt it.
Why did they all fly so close together if they knew how easily they would explode? So that Poe can have his arc. But wait, in TFA he didn't get loads of his squadron killed? Hmm. never mind.
@@Ruylopez778 If I'm remembering right, it was Tallie who gave the tight formation order. And she is *young*, like early-twenties young. Inexperienced leaders make mistakes. I think the fact that something does go wrong is pretty much acknowledgement that it was a shitty tactic.
Now, Poe didn't have much of an arc in TFA anyway. He was only meant to be a minor character. If I remember correctly, he was originally meant to die when he crashed the TIE on Jakku. But JJ liked Oscar Isaac's performance so much that he had his character return after spending half of the movie without him - so that he could be the new main Resistance pilot.
As for his squadron at Starkiller Base, about two thirds of that force got killed just fine on their own, haha
My goodness I’m getting sick of hearing about TLJ
Same. I just want to talk about Episode 9 and what could happen next.
if people werent still so sore about it we wouldn't be. the people that hate the movie are ironically the ones prolonging the discussion about it.
So don’t watch the videos
@@eighteen-naked-cowboys I'll go a step farther, in many (but not all, or even necessarily most) cases it isn't even ironic, it's intentional.
Some people feel that their favorite thing in the world, which is honestly a bit sacred to them, has been permanently damaged. What was damaged can't be replaced anytime soon, cause they don't just love the movies of Star Wars, but that there was a canon universe for it. Whatever breaks it for them, physics, Luke's arc, or more, there isn't a *universe* they can love anymore, let alone a film. And they can't just like some new films and not others, cause again they only enjoyed the films in the broader context.
Some of those people want others to feel just as frustrated as them, because that is the only way to get what they love (a universe with particular constraints on what film creatives can do closer to Marvel's model). The only thing that can fix things for them is a reboot of everything. That could only happen is most fans or even general audiences were as mad as them.
I am very much *not*in that camp, and it kinda bums me out to encounter people feeling that way. But I get it, just on an emotional level. If I had the same gripes, and I was attached to the broader universe as strongly as I was particular movies or trilogies, then that response would make sense. It just sucks people feel they can't even enjoy the franchise anymore, but honestly I think the fight is moot and nothing can be gained at this point.
@@Jordan-zk2wd There's monetary gain, the entire backlash against TLJ has practically become a cottage industry, the worst and most insufferable clowns that make daily videos bitching and moaning and nauseam about TLJ and stream themselves checking Pablo Hidalgo and Rian Johnson's Twitter accounts for hours (clearly things totally normal and not crazy people do) while raking ad revenue and Patreon E-begging. And they won't stop because its now their job to be eternally outraged at Star Wars. I've friends that to this day they don't like TLJ and even they are so sick and tired of manbabies complaining daily about Star Wars on RUclips.
Objects that fall continue to fall when they’re in space. Even better than they do in gravity because there’s nothing to cause friction.
Blaine Hoover 👆 This.
2:34 shield generator that why they don't blowing from the sky
They could've send bombers in the atmosphere under the shield and bomb the base
@@c3po184 Deflector shield does not allow Repulsorlift Vehicles or fast Vehicles pass through.
sarge eagle they let the transports carrying the AT-AT’s through. They are fast moving vehicles
@@Skoombit they landed the at-at outside of the shield around Echo Base.
Had no issue with the bombs and how they dropped, had an issue with how in affective and poorly designed the bombers were
Exactly. The most frustrating thing about the scene was that they could have just had fewer of these bombers that are shown to be heavily armored yet slow moving, and carrying a large payload. Have 3 bombers rather than 8 of them, and the first two bombers get destroyed from a sustained barrage of fire from the enemy TIEs, rather than 3 bombers being quickly destroyed from a freak TIE fighter crash (which was the scene that showed just how embarrassingly bad these bombers are).
Actually, for a heavy bomber, their a great design. They carry 1,048 proton bombs. You would need approximately 52.4 Y-wings to carry the equivalent.
@@lukerope1906 However, that means destroying 1 Starfortress would hurt more than destroying 1 Y Wing. They could have just deployed swarms of Y Wings instead and gotten the kill without so many losses.
Joe Kerr Joe Kerr yeah I’ve seen this point before and it’s pretty poor, having 52 Y-wings would have been way more effective, they’re faster, more manoeuvrable, put less crew at risk if ones destroyed (1 vs 3), would be harder for ties and gunners to intercept and shoot them and both bombers have gunners, so sorry but that’s a poor excuse in my eyes
@@lukerope1906 A heavy bomber can't go down in 2 shots.
If that were the case, B-17s would have been decimated by the Lutwaffe.
I love it how The Last Jedi was the movie where people complained about “scientific inaccuracies” in Star Wars. However nobody batted an eye about the fact that for 42 years, the Millennium Falcon, TIE Fighters, and X-Wings don’t have any wing flaps or anything else that airplanes need in order to turn or maneuver.
Between Star Trek and Star Wars, the later has always been about being more fantasy than science fiction and it’s pretty dumb to start talking about scientific inaccuracies this late in the franchise
I don't mind the bombers but I am not a fan of how Poe just takes out all of the cannons by himself
I’ve always thought about the momentum the bombs would have. I never had a problem with that. I just found it weird how the resistance had to use the slowest moving bombers the galaxy has ever seen. Then again, there are a billion problems with the AT-AT walkers...
Rian likes things moving slowly in space, just like in every other SW movie we ever saw. Slow x-wings, slow TIE fighters, slow Falcon....
@@Ruylopez778 WTF are you talking about? Did you see Poe's moves? Did you see Kylo's attack? The Falcon looked as fast as I've ever seen it. Are you sure you saw the right movie?
The slow-moving bombers builds suspense and makes sense given their payload and inspiration. They're meant to have better cover. They're also stealthy. Notice how they appear out-of-nowhere despite moving so slow? They're meant to sneak-up, drop their payload, then jump to hyperspace safety.
They're also plenty tough. You can see them take several direct hits from tie-fighters and keep trucking. They're at their most vulnerable right before they drop their payload because they have their bombs armed, their bomb-bay doors open, and their bomb-bay shields down (to let the bombs through). It's at that moment in the movie, that a tie fighter flies directly into the bomb-bay of one of the bombers and causes a cascade of destruction.
Paige's ship almost definitely took a thorough beating before delivering its payload.
@@AbeDillon It's called sarcasm
But i mean, the bigger issue was more the Bombers themselves were kinda terrible. Id rather a torbedo launching ship thats a little faster
Arstotzkan At The DMZ Y-wing bombers are what you’d want then.
The ressistance is poor and don't have much options
They are great, as heavy bombers go.
And slow lumbering AT-ATs are fine for attacking the Rebel's main base despite it giving them the time they need to escape?
Joe Kerr - They are great...when they actually manage to reach their target from how slow they are. And assuming they can ever survive that long because of how weakly armored they are.
Yeah, great bombers. These bombers are essentially a large bomb payload mounted to a paper ship that moves 1 mph.
AT-ATs are realistically the worst designed tanks in existence they’re literally on easily exploitable and slow moving legs and don’t have any weapons pointing in any direction that isn’t directly straight
That’s true, but they are shown to be powerful and intimidating, the Resistance Bomber look and and are shown to be weak and unimpressive
Your Average Pullé are they supposed to be impressive and strong? They are a resistance, Not a government funded military
@@thepulle4722 Only to a very weak enemy...
My problems with the bombers is how they're so ineffective they are at doing their job like they seem to move as slow as AT-ATs yet seem to have durability of a Tie fighter
@Deamon incarnate when I watch the scene, I don't think "damn these things are durable" I think "well these have paper machee for armour" and why not introduce a new version of the B Wings, during the Original Trilogy they were the Anti capital ship weapons of the rebels
@Deamon incarnate actually I was wondering, why is the first order still using TIE fighters but I haven't seen or heard of any defenders or interceptors
@Deamon incarnate so would it be safer to say that it isn't how bad the starfortress is but how much better the new TIEs are?
But why use the bombers in the first place. Y wings could have done so much more damage because they wouldn't all get destroyed before they get to the target
Because they don't own any Y-wings.
How much damage could Y-wings really do to that thing? You don't even know if they had any.
@@Video456325 The Starfortress drops the entire payload whenever it bombs a place. Hardly something super grand. Y Wings don't fire off everything and yet they still get the job done. Y Wings can also attack armed targets. Poe explained in the movie that even a single turbolaser left intact would have destroyed the bombing fleet. How in the hell is that a good design for a bomber in space? That means the Rebels would have had to wait for the ships of the First Order to lose EVERY turbolaser and missile silo in order to use them in battle.
@@AstinCrow first of all this is just wrong second the payload that it has the starfortress has a lot like a lot a lot meanwhile the y wing only like what 10 or 20
@@minegaming4526 the space torpedoes the Y Wing carries are able to be controlled for precise hits and hit harder than the individual bombs on the star fortress. Not to mention they carry other payloads too as seen in Star Wars: Squadrons.
Secondly, if you are going to tell me I am wrong, find actual facts to back it up. Because you haven't proven it.
It's a pity that the Resistance in The Last Jedi didn't have any ion cannons. Or proton torpedoes. Or guided missiles. It's even more of a pity that the director forgot that if you don't want the audience to ask questions, you don't slow the pace of the movie down by focusing on some very slow, oddly designed ships, whose destruction, and usage, was a critical plot point, and the start of a major character arc. Heck, the Super Star Destroyer Executor in Return of the Jedi looked like it 'sank' when hit. But that was at the end of the film, tying up loose ends. People still complain about it, though.
My issue is that the ships were too slow, and the bombs were too slow. We'd literally just seen a turbo-boost engine on Poe's X-Wing. USE IT ON THE BOMBERS. USE IT ON THE BOMBERS.
All good points you make, but Rian had to make Poe reckless at the start for his arc, by making him tactically stupid, just like his character was all through TFA. Remember that? No me neither.
@@Ruylopez778 Oh, I remember Poe being incredibly stupid in The Force Awakens. In fact, I remember wondering why Leia bothered to send such a fool, who got himself captured needlessly, and apparently never got briefed on the fact that Force Users can block blaster bolts. Was this really her 'most trusted operative'? Was it because he's superficially similar to Han Solo, except in every way that's important?
Personally, in The Last Jedi, I would have had Poe try his delaying tactic, only for the First Order to kill him immediately. I think that would have sufficiently subverted expectations. Perhaps his character arc could then have belonged to Rey and Chewbacca?
The problem I have is less with whether or not the bombers scientifically make sense. My problem is more a question of why they are using these terrible bombers when they had Y-wings.
It feels like Rian Johnson just chose to forget that Y-wings are a thing so that he could jizz WW2 bombers into his movie because he thought it would be cool.
Y-wings don't carry nukes you know. That was an insanely massive ship to attack.
Honestly, i don't think one or two bombs shot by a Y-wing can destrtoy a dreadnought the way 300 huge bombs from the resistance bomber can. If they were easy to take out with 50 year old ships it wouldn't be a threat.
Eric Santucci Exactly.
Y-wings were also terrible though. They'd be an 70 year old ship by the time of the battle.
People complain about bombers and gravity is space yet don't complain about lightsabers and the force which is not real. These so called fans that complain about such thing's are not fans at all.
If Star Wars was 100% accurate to real life space science, the clone wars, the galactic civil war, the reclamation war (the name for the sequel trilogy’s conflict for those who don’t know), would all have gone on for hundreds, potentially thousands of years due to time dilation.
Where's it called reclamation war? I'm very steeped in the lore and haven't heard of it yet.
Sam.E.A I haven’t seen an official source yet, but I’ve heard fans call it by that name a few times now. It makes sense to me, that’s the First Order’s goal, reclamation of the Empire’s lost power and territory.
@@tylermacgregor1320 hmm, well I guess that's as good a name as any. At least until something official comes along
So... here's the thing. T
he bombs at the bottom of the bomber wouldn't move as quickly as the bombs at the top of the rack bc they would have less time to build speed and momentum, meaning that the bombs that drop later in the payload would just crash into the bombs that drop later.
Your explanation doesn't work.
That's not how dropping things works. If they're all released at the same time, they would fall exactly as they do in the movie. They have the exact same amount of time to build up speed as all the other bombs because they're released at the same time and accelerated at the same rate.
''Hey, sometimes things can just be fun.''
I think that's the problem, this bomber thing is just not fun for most people.
Only if you're deliberately being a stick in the mud.
@@RevengeOfTheKaizer So you like the scene, that's good for you, but apparently lots people don't, and that's the problem.
James Yang Agreed, people who like the concept can be just as inconsiderate as the people who don’t
NoTiCe HoW hE's StIlL mIsSiNg OuT oN tHe LeGiTiMaTe CrItIcIsMs.
20 likes 4 views. *perfect*
I got 4 views, 10 comments and 8 likes :D
@@DaleESkywalker haha the YT is on drugs?
@@ATATChat lost in calculations, kind of like I am most of the time.
@@DaleESkywalker haha
Why were they flying in close formation that caused them to all die then???? Why did they replace the y wing with this thing?!! They already had perfectly fine bombers that could move at more than 1 km/h! Look, I get that it’s based of a b17, but honestly these things are shit like the tactics used. Maybe if it was the first Star Wars movie without an established universe and better tactics it could work, but no. “hey it obeys the laws of physics” is by no means a justification for the ship’s existence.
Meh They're too slow and don't have the bulk to make up for their speed. That's my problem with them, not the bomb dropping stuff.
Just like the real heavy bombers of WW2
@@blakeb106 yep, the resistance seriously needs some upgraded ships and equipment for episode 9 if they want to stand a chance against Kylo's First Order.
Bit By Bit But this is Star Wars, not WW2.
@@convoyds Star Wars takes a lot of inspiration from WW2.
The Starfortress is heavy bomber. They carry 1,048 proton bombs. Heavy bombers are slow, unmaneuverable, and rely on the protection of fighters.
Honestly all the little plot holes in TLJ don't bother me I just thought it was boring as hell
I actually really like all the ships and tech in the sequel trilogy, I think it's all really cool to see stuff that kinda looks like older models but improves on the designs in small increments like one would expect a nation living in relative peace or a government in exile cutting costs in some areas to really focus on others to develop. Idk fictional military tech is really cool
_Dude, the resistance bomber is a downgrade in every way from the bombers as old as the clone wars._
@@SynthVoice if you're expecting them to fill the same roll, absolutely. They're slow, fragile, require a larger crew, etc. The Y-wing is my favorite ship in star wars, nothing will ever compare. However, I can see it having a specialized roll as an atmospheric bomber, whose purpose its to target ground units instead of capital ships. In this sense, it outclasses the Y-Wing in the payload it can deliver, and the sheer amount of damage it could do to an enemy base or army is unrivaled. Of course being as desperate for resources as they were, I can see the resistance trying to fit the square peg in a round hole and attempt to use the bomber in a way it's not intended.
Not to mention the fact that the bombers weren’t actually bombers but cargo ships that were used to drop care packages on planets in need, so when the war started those ships were the only things they had.
Where did you read that? starwars.fandom.com/wiki/MG-100_StarFortress_SF-17 shows them to be 100% military design, with a mention that they were used in civilian applications later.
goldfishprime Thank you for the clarification! I got this information from discussions and it made more sense than the canon explanation since as a military vehicle it kind of sucks lol
where were all these people when the TIE bombers were "dropping" bombs on the asteroids?
Polum47 Thank you! No one seems to remember that
I would never complain about the physics, however I will still say those bombers are dumb when compared with Y-wings or B-wings which seem superior in everyway.
Y-Wings are only good to get your casualty numbers up
@@Kunx990 Lol. No.
I have never seen 9 casualties caused by a single Tie-fighter crashing. Y's can even survive when there are cannons left shoot at them.
Just because it's dumd to criticize the physics doesn't mean it's not equally as dumb trying to defend those trashy bombers
Only one Y-Wing made it out of Yavin. And I'm only discussing how bad Y-Wings are.
@@Kunx990 Well, that's not the main discussion.
And... So? Only 2-3 X-wings made it too and they are supposed to be one of the best ships.
The point here is put an Anakin quality pilot in a Y and put the same in one of the LJ bombers. Who has more chances of survival? Ys are far better despite they might not be the best ship in the fleet.
And also, I will remind you: Ys served during the clone wars. Older and yet, better. But just as we have new versions of Xs and As they could have made Ys even better and not use LJ trash.
These bombers still suck, I don't care about the science being wrong, I'm just saying that these bombers are the equivalent of the red explosive barrels in FPS games.
Prince That was kinda the point. The Resistance didn’t have much to work with, so they had to use these outdated slow bombers.
@@saltysnowflake5832 Why is everything else modern then? Their A-Wings, X-Wings, capital ships, but they have these tin foil bombers that wouldn't have been useful 60 years ago in universe?
@@saltysnowflake5832 True, but it is still stupid, there were countless numbers of bombers that have existed before these. There's just no way that they wouldn't be able to find a few Tie Bombers, Y-Wings, or Hyena Bombers? All of them are outdated as well and the Resistence bombers were outdated well before the Clone Wars.
“Look, I have problems with The Last Jedi too. I can’t believe I have to keep fucking saying that.”
Fucking mood, man.
So I’m guessing the Resistance aren’t using Y-Wings because they’re either obsolete or they’ve all been destroyed and they ran out of resources to produce more.
My head canon explanation for the weird design of the resistance bombers is that it's actually designed as a mine laying starship. It looks like it would be good at going out and setting up a whole bunch of space mines in non-combat scenarios where it's slow speed isn't so much of an issue.
Also, there IS gravity in space. If the ships were in orbit around the planet that would be different, but the planets appear to be still, soooo there should be gravity. I have no problem with this scene. People are just reaching for any reason to confirm their hatred for the movie.
If Poe knows the bombers are slow and blow up so easily why does he have them fly so close together?
So that audience know Poe is reckless, part of the plot. The problem with that scene is it's trying too hard to make Poe look stupid.
@@Ruylopez778 See, you've found something new to nitpick about the movie. congratulations, you've proven my point.
@@merchantaudioproductions Never said I hated the movie.
Nitpick is pedantic fault finding. But Poe is tactically wrong here, which is in contrast with who he was in TFA. It's clearly out of character for the sake of the plot. You're saying because you have no problem with it, it's nitpicking. George didn't have any problems with the prequels. People were nitpicking?
@@Ruylopez778 My reply was about gravity in space and about people finding excuses to hate TLJ, you are the one who posted about a problem you have with Poe. how else am I supposed to read that? You lead me to assume you hate TLJ. Anyways, I don't really care either way. I'm excited for the next movie! have a great day.
@@merchantaudioproductions Your original comment was there is gravity in space, so as you had no problem with the scene, an alternative opinion critical of the scene is irrational. So I gave you an alternative reason why people might dislike it, because every fan is an individual capable of their own ideas. And then you concluded that I am irrational based on your rigid assumption that all criticism is only used to justify hatred. It would be easier to agree that movies are subjective and anyone can dislike a scene or beat without an agenda. What you're doing is justifying the right to dismiss criticism that you disagree with. Just like many people love the movie don't love the canto bight part. Are they irrational? The last sentence "people are just reaching" is exactly the sort of comment that just prolongs the debate, rather than move on. But I've noticed people in the comments here go out of there way to belittle some fans and also claim that this channel is so positive. I hope you enjoy everything that happens in IX
I tweeted this idea at Pablo Hidalgo and he directly confirmed it. I didn’t like the movie, but this was incredibly obvious to me. It could technically launch the bombs in any direction in space.
I love all vehicles & vessels of Star Wars.
I like the Resistance Bomber, pretty cool to me.
Anybody says otherwise, I respect your opinion, don't be an idiot about it.
I remember reading a pablo hidalgo tweet that said something about this. Like they chose to make it magnetized since the bombs at the top of the bomber would fall faster in space since they picked up more speed in the artificial gravity.
The fact that these ships were so slow and exploded as soon as they were shot at, and they dropped little racks of dumb, unguided gravity bombs-all of this made the scene seem
so stupid and unentertaining.
I'm more shocked about the apparent lack of deflector shields on that First Order Dreadnought. That thing is 7 km long, has only a couple dozens turrets to defend itself, and is seemingly made out of paper.
The AT-AT attack on hoth wasn’t poor planning because of the planetary shield they couldn’t do an orbital bombardment and they had to deploy outside the edge of the shield, not nit picking just saying
Ok but they could have just transport bombers and fighter's inside the shield and then blow the generator faster.
@@deadshot5007 Right. Barely any of the Empire's arsenal was deployed on Hoth beyond AT-ATs when they were attacking the Rebel Alliance's main base. But no one cares because we love those movies.
The shield prevents fast moving object (ships, missiles, etc...) from passing through. Echo Base's shield was '...Strong enough to deflect any bombardment.' Also the enemy is dug into a mountain... not much room to flank that.
Everything we know about space in Star Wars seems to suggest there is both oxygen and gravity.
Not to mention that they're still in orbit around a planet which has a gravitational pull. Gravity doesn't stop working just because you're in space. You could build a skyscraper on earth all the way up to the international space station and you'd be able to stand on top of it. You wouldn't just float away
Are people really STILL complaining about TLJ?? Over a year later??
I don’t even know what to say anymore
It's become a cottage industry to do that. The bitch boys doing daily videos on RUclips about Star Wars and Captain Marvel have turned being a crybaby troll and outrage peddler into a job, it's not monetarily viable for them to stop complaining.
TheSlayFer Ch. T. Captain Marvel was Oscar-worthy compared to tlj.
@@williamwebb580 no the point people got really triggered over Captain Marvel by the anti sjw and this can not be stated enough anti sjw are the new sjw
@@williamwebb580 the Anti sjw also got triggered by endgame trailer because of Captain Marvel
ty hellogreedo, I appreciate your effort to make this video.
I don't know why these people who complain about the bombers in Last Jedi forget about the bombers in Empire.
Or AT-ATs, or the fact that in space there shouldn't be any sound or explosions, or that Lightsabers are virtually impossible to create, or that it makes no sense for a Cyborg with artificial enhancements and preserved organs to cough, or that ships can't move in space the same way they do on the earth.
If you wanna pick apart Star Wars and not be a hypocrite you gotta do it to ALL Star Wars, including the Original trilogy.
In short: nostalgia.
The shield generator at hoth stopped imperial air units or speeder from going through so they had to deploy the walkers outside the shield perimeter and would have to really on them as the only support for their troops until they took out the shield generator
People just want to nitpick everything
My only problem with the Resistance bombers is that one crashing Tie Fighter took out 3 of them
Now hold up. If the bombs fall by gravity, when they leave the gravitational pull, the momentum they have will continue but not gain. So using that logic, the bombs at the top would catch up with the bombs on the bottom before they reach their target. And as for why we have problems with things like lightspeed ramming is because there are rules established in a cinematic universe. So when something like lightspeed ramming comes up, then the question arises as to why hasn’t it been used before, and why ever bother having big ships if this is the case. This is similar to the bombers in the last Jedi, why use something so ineffective and just an overall terrible design when something like the y wings are available, which have been proven to be much more effective? I personally am fine with the resistance having older tech since they seem to be just reusing a stockpile of equipment from the galactic civil war.
Your logic on bombs doesn't make any sense. If a bomb is dropped from artificial gravity into no gravity at 5 mph or whatever speed they drop, and another drops 5 feet behind it, they're not going to catch up to each other. They're simply going to stay 5 feet apart until they hit something, or their trajectory is changed by something, at the very same speed they left the gravity field at. There's no atmosphere, (or very little in one of my theories as to why Leia didn't freeze on one side and burn on the other facing solar radiation, and why there are explosions in _the vacuum of space),_ and no resistance against their movement toward their target, and even if there is resistance, it would be the same for each bomb, slowing each one at the same rate, which is also negligible.
Now, if they were magnetic, the attraction of one would pull another into it, or even back into the ship that dropped them.
When you combine two subjects in one paragraph, it becomes confusing to the reader.
The light-speed ramming has been explained before, in the OT, when HAN says hyperspace ain't like dusting crops - you're likely to fly into a star or a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick... I'm not going to look up the exact quote again, so take that however you will - close enough for me. It also makes sense that it's not a "tactic" for many reasons.
Having big ships is aesthetics. They look fuk'n cool and intimidating. At that close range, she can definitely hit a target and there are two reasons I can think of off the top of my head that she would be able to hit it. The first, if she hasn't even reached light speed at that distance, it would make contact, and even if it were shielded leads me to the second point. If the ship is using hyperspace technology to track the ships, the shield would be open to hyperspace anomalies, being partially in hyperspace and partially not, or phasing, (kind of like Han explains the "refresh rate" of the shield protecting SKB).
If your sitting in the theater, watching the movie for the first time having an open mind, and you see something blatantly obvious like that, wouldn’t you think you’d be able to complain? I don’t want to read a picture book after the movie comes out to understand why.
The explanation was mostly because of the kids who got all nit picky about ships
People: explain gravity in space
Me: space monks with laser swords and magic, explain that
My gripes with The Last Jedi have nothing to do with technology or scientific accuracy. My complaints are about how certain characters were written and handled. One example would be Rose Tico. I feel like the character could have been written better. That said, I believe the actress did a great job, considering what she had to work with. I'm actually fine with how Luke was handled. Also, I feel like Holdo could have said something to Poe, like, "How do you think they tracked us? There must be a mole." I feel like adding that when she meets Poe, would have justified almost everything else that many fans had a problem with, especially the Cantobite arc. Sorry about how long this comment is. Have a nice day @hellogreedo
The most important thing to remember is the 19th Rule of Aquisition; Satisfaction is not guaranteed. You buy cut-rate garbage you can expect sub-optimal performance.
Greetings from the #ToxicBrood
I've always thought this...there just was no "visual force field" showing it go through.
Great video! Yeah I think Star Wars fans are rarely consistent with their criticisms.
Also the Empire couldn’t attack the rebels on Hoth from their star destroyers because of the shield generator protecting them.
I’m sure you knew that and just misspoke.
Well, they could go with their ships into the atmosphere and attack at the same high as their walkers, but flying with their ships
TIE Bombers could have bombed the shield generator.
Another video that makes me love this channel even more
I loved TLJ. I have 1 or 2 friends though that use crappy excuses like these to attack the movie.
Why did they kill General Akbar in the way they did?
Why was Canto Bite so drawn out?
Why did they destroy the arc set up for Rey in the previous movie?
Why did they simply tell and not truly show Luke’s actions that led him to where he was?
Why was Hux all of a sudden a comedy of errors when several hours before he was an insane figure that Snoke respected?
Why did they seek to totally up end Luke’s character - a figure in which many revere - for the sake of being subversive with nothing to show for it but Mark Hamill’s disapproval, millions of angry and sad fans, and his literal character death?
Why did Rian Johnson choose to cut the thirty second clip of Luke reacting to Hans death?
Listen, I watched the movie three times. The first time left me shell shocked. The second left me with a much better opinion. The third left me angry because I could no longer make excuses for the many gaping holes due to Johnson’s script.
It is totally fine if someone likes this movie. That is not a bad thing, if anything that is wonderful! But there are many legitimate questions that reveal the many errors this movie made, which is why so many people hate it.
The one thing I can definitively say I was so intrigued by was the connection Rey and Kylo had. But even that plot idea was destroyed in the throne room scene. And don’t even get me started on the consequences of the Holdo maneuver.
@@joshuabenton3785
Im sorry to say but Akbar was never a important role in the franchise. It was more important to focus on other and more important roles.
@@joshuabenton3785
Yes canto bight may not have added to the plot but it was a much needed addition to the franchise. We got to see another side of the galaxy that we had never seen before in the movies. Also the sub-plot failed. Their aim was to successfully catch the code breaker, but they failed. The whole movie is about failure. So yes, while the sub plot may not of added much to the overall story it added a new side to the SW galaxy and reflected on what was going on in the rest of the movie.
@@joshuabenton3785
Rey didnt need training. Why would Luke go all the way to a remote island and then train this random girl when she showed up.
@@joshuabenton3785
Luke was ashamed of who he was. Of course he would try to change it to make him look slightly better. The movie focuses a lot on balance. Luke told one story and Ben told the other, and then the final flashback brings balance to the story.
How is a glass cannon not a bad idea when its the biggest and slowest thing on the battlefield?
Am I the only intelligent one who knew this literally as I watched the film
Yeah I really did not fucking understand how people thought that was wrong
Literally the very first thing the entire Star Wars franchise ever did was violate Newton's first law. There is absolutely no reason for a Star Destroyer's engine to be running hot when traveling through empty space because there's no drag in a vacuum.
I just always figured the ships project them out the bottom of the ship. There's nothing to stop their trajectory anyway. 🤷♂️
Here's a "logical" explanation for the bombers:
1) They have stealth tech. They don't need to be fast because they're meant to sneak up on a target, drop a massive payload, then jump to hyperspace. You can see this in the movie where they seemingly come out of nowhere once Po clears the point-defenses.
2) They're actually very tough but have a very small and devastating weak-point for a brief period of time. You can see the ships take several consecutive hits from tie fighters in the movie, something we don't see many ships survive. However, right before they're ready to drop their payload, they have over 1,000 armed bombs and an open bomb-bay door. In the movie, that's the precise moment a tie fighter flies right up INTO the bomb-bay of one of the bombers causing a cascade of destruction.
3) They are 100% bad ass looking ships that totally fit the WW II aesthetic of Star Wars, a franchise that has always embraced the "rule of cool".