I used to believe in Dave Filoni, but these are not acceptable losses. I can't possibly be excited for the Heir to the Empire movie when it won't be Heir to the Empire.
See, I disagree with that theory. I think it's perfectly possible to write a character smarter than yourself, because you as a writer have days to come up with solutions that the characters have seconds to resolve. But intelligence represents work and dilligence, effort that is clearly not on display.
@rafezap not to mention to follow up with Zahn and talk about potential new ideas. After Rebels, Dave simply cast Zahn to the side and unfortunately dumb down Thrawn's intelligence.
Thrawn's plan was to wait for the Rebels to draw all their available allies together to liberate Lothal, plus locate their base, and catch them all at the point of major mustering. Then trap and eliminate them - as many as possible. So it was about waiting for the largest amount of fish in the net. Whilst also being ordered to take at least some prisoners (per Tarkin) That doesn't always come off so well, along the way, but the method is fairly solid. What it is though - is cold blooded. Lots of expendable forces along the way, justified arguably by the vast Imperial resources and war machine (plus Thrawn is ultimately working towards his own people's benefit, rather than the Empire's, externally, per books) In Ahsoka it was about moving the... whatever it was, mcguffins, off of Peridea, to his ship, in time to escape with them. Whilst not necessarily being honest with Morrigan, about this. But yeah, this does feel fairly toned down to his original modus operandi. And yes, somewhat contrived.@@rafezap
2:26 The best use of the "bad guy that keeps letting the good guys go because _reasons"_ is Koragg the Wolf Knight from Power Rangers Mystic Force. He was an evil, yet honor-bound knight (veeeeery Aurthian legend) who would keep beating the good guys and have them on the ropes and then just _leave_ because it would be dishonorable to stomp them out when they're so weak and beneath him. Like if a little kid started smacking his leg with a wooden stick and called it a sword, he'd shove him into the mud and break his stick, maybe smack him with it for good measure, but he wouldn't _snap the kid's neck._ That's just _beneath_ him. It happened SO OFTEN it became a _PLOT POINT_ where the other badguys *_put him on TRIAL for not being evil enough_* and accused him of intentionally subverting their Evil Master's goals because he never _"finish the job."_ It was awesome that they actually addressed and utilized the trope, and added onto it to build up the reveal that Koragg was secretly the possessed form of the *_hero named Leanbow, long thought dead, who's been fighting to take back control of this body for YEARS,_* and subtitling influencing the evil spirit 'Koragg' to lean into his honor code to save his _family_ from being killed by him. It was AWESOME.
Disney wars thrawn has the same issue as other disney wars bad guys(not counting Andor) The main characters have so little brain power that if you distract them, they forget to breath In order for the good guys to survive they need to have plot armor thicker than reality or the bad guys have to act dumber than a headless chicken
@@LordRevan-vi2op and that's what the Imperials in Lucas's Star Wars (barring Tarkin and perhaps Admiral Motti) were: antagonists. By and large they were honourable, competent men who were opposed to the Rebel Alliance because they genuinely believed in the Empire, not because they were inherently malicious people. Of course, "Andor" being a cartoon masquerading as "mature" storytelling doesn't follow up on that, so instead of the cool, focused professionalism of a Piett or a Veers we get sad-sack cereal-eating Syril or some fat doofus chortling about oppressing the natives.
@@CanadianPale Syril isn't an Imperial, though. He was apart of the Corporate Authority and functioned as what would the equivalent of what would be Amazon's private army.
I've been called a hater for pointing out how stupid Thrawn's decisions were in the Ashoka show. I didnt watch Rebels so I decided to lay off him and give it a break. Then I saw this and had a little chuckle. How can he be an intelligent villian if he just lets the hero's win and gets bodied when he doesn't mean to let them win? How can you take him seriously? Thank you for helping me realize I'm not insane...
he is a tiny bit better in rebels... BUUUUT not by much. want to ruin ashoka even more for yourself? ask this question.... why didnt thrawn pre load all of the nightsisters cargo BEFORE morrigan arrives? if thrawn did, then the show would be over and thrawn wins! lol... the entire show is constantly having to be retarded because otherwise the show would have ended in episode 1 if the assassin droids sent after sabine used a sniper rifle to kill her, take the orb then leave before ahsoka arrives to go get thrawn... OR think about this, why does thrawn even WANT to leave this new galaxy? why doesnt thrawn rbing the imperial remnant over to this new galaxy at a later date? thrawn is hyper intelligent and a genius... i would have lured the ghost crew to this new galaxy to stop my return and to save ezra, but secretly i want them to save ezra and think i am trapped in this new galaxy forever but in reality i needed ezra gone so i can build my empire in this new galaxy... IMAGINE if thrawn brought the imperial remnant to this new galaxy? a new galaxy to strip mine for resources, barren worlds to set up cloning facilities and factories... you could use the nightsisters knowledge of their own galaxy and star maps to farm it for resources and build up a military to rival the new republic who will suspect the empire's remnant was defeated... if even just bring over the people and supplies i need then sacrifice the rest by leaking their base locations to the new republic so they wipe out the remnant i didnt take with me.... so the new republic thinks it won against the empire fully and after a few decades will let their guards down and allow us to infiltrate the government for info... then once we have a new and improved military empire set up in the new galaxy, we will invade seeing as theres only ONE WAY to get to this new galaxy, and thats to go to the stupid space whale graveyard world lol its such a easy place to set up a blockade fleet to annihilate any ships that try to come.
The problem is and always will be trying to execute this in an era of kids' shows that have no teeth. Filoni-Thrawn is just the latest example in poorly executed Xanatos-es. Xatanosi? Xatani? Davids Xanatos? Xanatos worked as a bad guy in the original gargoyles show *partly* because they didn't literally kick him around _every episode_ and partly because he *lost* in the opening 5-part mini series and we were shown him a.) actually losing and b.) not being terribly set back by actually losing. Then, as the show progresses, Xanatos works as a villain because he's sort of constantly harming people either indirectly, emotionally, or opportunistically. He recruits one of our main characters' family members away from the good guys to work as his private security, then engineers a situation where that private security dude is put in a position to "accidentally" get mutated. Part of this is just to maintain leverage over the security guard (if Xanatos can find the cure, then Xanatos is the only one who can help him) and partly to wield leverage against one of the show's protagonists, who now has to grapple with her family being drawn into her personal vendetta against this billionaire villain. And that's just *one story arc.* It actually takes like three episodes to make that happen. And that's important - time. Villainous schemes take time to mature. It's what allows them to build in room for "error" (.e.g good guys winning). Introducing villainous plans with layers isn't hard, but you have to be willing to let your villains a.) punch up sometimes and b.) punch _down_ sometimes. Their goals have to exist and be obvious beyond the scope of our heroes. They shouldn't be out here stopping our heroes; our heroes need to be out there _stopping them_. Then the act of creating the plan which is ultimately thwarted is already impressive and can be made more so with handwave regressions.
It's the Kang problem where all of these villains are written as if they have the gravitas of hundreds of hours of content. Always talking big game about how many people they killed yet they can't defeat the incompetent main protagonists.
How does the New Republic even work? Why should the Chancellor hold a vote in the Senate to allow the general (!) to take a squadron if only one senator can approve this mission? Huyang throughout the series: gives logical and rational arguments for why Ahsoka's actions are idiotic. Ahsoka: no. Do as I say, I have plot armor and plot luck. Huyang: Okay. Minefield. Do you have any idea how many mines it takes to mine SPACE? And how long will it take? And why weren't any whales harmed by them? Naturally, flying straight through the wreckage, you won’t damage even the antenna on your boat... Sabin, you still haven’t told Ezra the situation, even though you don’t have time? What a stupid cow you are... How did Beilan and Shin negotiate with the red riders, who obviously do not know their language and who caught them over the corpses of their comrades? Naturally, Ahsoka and Sabine can connect mentally, despite the fact that Sabine is insensitive to the Force... and Ezra is sitting next to her, but Ahsoka does not feel him... Witches can not only sense Ahsoka, but also determine her position on the map with an accuracy of up to a meter? But they couldn't find Ezra for 10 years? Thrawn, if you don't care whether you defeat your enemies or not because you'll get off the planet, why don't you just shoot and bomb them from the air instead of sending a useless landing party? Actually, you don’t have many soldiers left, and you still have to fight the Republic... Ezra. You're a fucking Jedi. Take your fucking lightsaber and fight Shin! Sabin doesn't even use it! Ezra is so strong that he can forcefully stop Shin's blows, but Shin can knock him back and knock him out? The Ninja Turtles invented flying armored personnel carriers, but they shoot with fucking slingshots? By armored riders? How about just running them over? Ahsoka, why did you jump off to fight Baylan if your goal is to help Ezra and Ahsoka and he doesn’t threaten them? And your plan was to let Huyang burn you with flashes? Naturally, Ahsoka can simply drive into the frame through a crowd of stormtroopers, they can’t do anything at all... How about disarming and tying up Shin so you have a hostage and an extra lightsaber? No? In short, I've had enough. The series is shit, which will be licked because they showed us a hologram of Anakin and he said “Ventress.” Filoni is an arrogant hack, no better than Abrams or Johnson. Thanks everyone for reading.
"Everybody likes to praise Dave Filoni as the savior for Star Wars, but for me he always seemed to be the type of writer that changed Star Wars into what he wants it to be, even at the cost of the writing." THANK you. This man speaks truth. Round of applause. Part of the reason The Mandalorian stopped working for me is because it felt like as Filoni took over more of the writing duties, it stopped being a cool space western about a merc dad, and started to be.. Yet Another Clone Wars Sequel. I initially loved the character of Ahsoka the same as everyone else, but after a decade and a half of tv shows, comic books, novels and cartoons where she's the focus or a major player her character feels all tapped out, but Filoni won't let her go and is determined to keep her in narrative focus just as much as, if not more so than, any of the Skywalkers. I'm not trying to hate but Star Wars feels like less and less of a sandbox for various authors, filmmakers and artists to build upon, and more and more Filoni making it an overlong extension of Clone Wars and Rebels.
Thrawn after getting half his fleet blown up, not by the enemy, but by just bumping into them with his star destroyer and blowing them up: “Hm yes… all according to plan…”
The key thing about defeating thrawn in an authentic way, Thrawn isnt defeated by out thinking him. He is defeated because of the small actions the good guys take which lead to a snowball effect that Thrawn couldnt possibly have predicted. Any planned countermove would have been discovered by him and overcome. Thats why his last words are "it was so artfully done" when his bodyguard stabbed him, because in that moment he realized what must have happened and that the Noghri were working with leia behind his back.
The biggest problem with FIloni is he is stuck doing silly fan service to thousands when Disney needs him to write compelling stories that will attract millions. The movies have always been the heart of Star Wars and while Filoni has been given a shot at live action, he seems to still want to tell thinly plotted kid's stories. I love the Clone Wars / Rebels but they only work for me because I don't think about the animated stories as seriously. I really hope they get a writer's room for the Ahsoka/Mando TV shows / movie or they'll be massive flops and it'll be a long time before we revisit this era of Star Wars. And let Zahn help with the characterization of Thrawn - there's a reason the books are still popular.
I was once brainwashed too. I thought Filoni was going to Star Wars and honor the Eu because I liked The Clone Wars and I liked the first two seasons of The Mandalorian. The moment I woke up was when I saw The Book of Boba Fett and The Bad Batch, two shows where nothing really happens. That's when I saw Filoni as a hack but I was willing to give him a chance until I saw this show and his portrayal of Thrawn.
They really gave Thrawn the Hux treatment... Honestly I'd argue Hux actively did more than whatever the hell Thrawn did during Dave Filoni's writing (Not counting the bullshit spy arc because what the Hell was that)
Timothy Zahn wrote 6 new books to tie in with Disney Star Wars and they are excellent in portraying Thrawn. 3 are set during his time in the Empire and 3 leading up to his exile in rhe Chiss Ascendancy. Dave Filoni chose to disregard his ENTIRE character arc and any development Timothy Zahn put into the character. The Rebels/Ahsoka Thrawn is a completely different person.
Thrawn was already ruined in rebels, especially when he was defeated by a gaint flying yak and space whales. Dave Filoni has never created about the continuity created by others starting day one TCW.
Thrawn was the imperial you found yourself almost cheering for. He is an alien, he shows care for his troops, he is intelligent and tactical. He is different to all other imperial leaders you see and it makes you think “maybe he is actually not that bad. Maybe he could do some good with his power” Sadly Thrawn has been dumbed down to make the dumber hero’s win all the time
Disney Thrawn is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand you have the lows of Filoni handling him. On the other, you have some incredible highs in the new books wirtten by Zhan.
I never read a single Thrawn book and even I can tell that this is not the character that people would have fallen in love with. Let's go over the tactical ineptitude, shall we? 1. Designing a kill box that can't kill 2. Calling off a successful attack on your enemy 3. Sending insufficient resources and manpower to engage an enemy 4. Engaging an enemy that poses no threat to you 5. Making another kill box than can't kill 6. Making ANOTHER Killbox that can't kill 7. No guards or impediments for enemies in your base And despite all of THAT!!! he somehow wins because the good guys are still worse...
I honestly think we haven't quite seen what Thrawn is capable of yet. Ahsoka was just the start and IIRC for rebels he consulted Zahn to an extent so...yeah.
They took a competent, well thought out character, that could be an actual threat. Just to stick him in a blender, spit on him, then make him look like elon musk in the live action
First, a little devil's advocate - I personally think there's always some degree of contrivance involved in a character like Thrawn. Geniuses are difficult to write properly. Case in point, in that intro scene you described from Heir : If I remember correctly it was a deduction about a given species ability to perform some kind of directional maneuver (based on their art, as you said). I might be misrepresenting that scene because it's been a sobering number of years since I read it, but I do distinctly remember that even as a child I kinda thought the whole scenario was a little fetched and contained some potential logical plot holes (one being a very common sci-fi trope that sees non-humans as inherently less complex and more 2-dimensional than they should be). All that said, Zahn 100% tried and largely succeeded at describing a wildly competent and fundamentally likeable underdog antagonist. Of all Star Wars villains he remains my favourite by far. It doesn't take some great leap of imagination to see why people would want to serve under him, and why the New Republic was legitimately terrified of him. It probably goes without saying I don't think Filoni has even come close to doing the character justice, and it blows my mind to see anyone giving that guy praise as a creative. In my personal opinion he's just a massive gaslighter who appeals to very young children and simpletons. I don't even think the "young children" thing is an adequate excuse - I totally nitpicked Zahn's (far superior) books as a 10 year old, so I have no reason to think I'd enjoy the dumbed down Filoniverse at literally any age. Put simply the dude is a hack. We saw in Ahsoka he can't even handle his own characters correctly, in that they all come across as terrible people (literally episode 2 : "let's play with this tactical nuke inside a hospital"), but he wants to pretend he can handle the biggest brain villain in the entire franchise? Bruh. Talk about being promoted to the level of incompetence. Andor is the only hope this franchise has, and fingers crossed that cowboy hat wearing character assassin stays far away from season 2.
Thrawn needs to "save resources..." For what exactly? Why do you need to preserve resources? It holds true during the ten years he was in Exile. He was trapped in a foreign galaxy practically as a castaway so it makes sense but NOT anymore... His priorities changed from survival to ESCAPE. Now, you must switch gear and use all of your resources available because Ahsoka and Co. Poses a real threat to your new objective of escaping so there is no longer any point in preserving his resources. His ONE half-baked Star Destroyer is not going to add much in the large scheme of things to the Imperial Remnant's arsenal. It is HE that is the resource that is valuable, not his actual hardware. Thrawn will have plenty of resources once he returns anyway so it makes no sense.
I think it is like my take on Doctor Who. Matt Smith was a very fun actor, but they did bizarre story decisions etc. Whole plot arcs completely unresolved and again hidden by pretending to be clever. But the Doctor was really well played, so watching it, you're enjoying his performance. And only when you think about it you go, Hey, Why did the Tardis explode? How did that happen? Why didn't it happen a second time? Where did the Cybermen come from? Why aren't the Daleks a universal threat anymore? Etc etc And Thrawn is played charismatically, so you sort of forget that he is bland story wise
6:55 Eh, I don't know, purposefully allowing the Rebels to gather in such numbers where he could destroy them was a pretty smart move by Thrawn, the real issue is *how* he is shown to do it. If all of these Rebel victories were minor then I could understand his attitude, but Thrawn was just so damn arrogant the entire time. Even with Mikkelsen's good performance, Thrawn comes off as a smug arsehole at almost every point. Also why are you so pissed about 7:44 ? Thrawn is supposed to hate orbital bombardments and in Legends he considered the battle of Kalee his biggest failure even though he won because he couldn't think of another way to beat the Kalee warriors using their culture and art. The real problem is the fact that Filoni has him do not 1 but 2 orbital bombardments.
Thrawn really needed to win a game of 4d chess in Asoka, as in give the main cast a goal that leads them further away from the main goal. Something like take Sabean to the other side of the planet and have your big battle there so that the good guys tough it out and rescue Sabean while Thrawn makes a clean get away. This would also rhyme with something like dark force rising where the heroes manage to save one of the ships, while losing out on the fleet. In other words Thrawn is at his best when the heroes achieve a hollow victory, and it's revealed that they were completely outplayed.
3:45 OK, this particular criticism is a tad unfair. Thrawn does explain his tactics sometimes in the novels in both Canon and Legends, but usually he gives orders with no context to his crew and generally only explains to Pellaon or one of the other main officer characters after he has already executed his plan. Thus we as the audience should know what Thrawn's plan was when he explains it to a few characters *after* he has already executed his plan, not before.
Thrawn’s Actor Is The Saving Grace Of His “Disney” Adaptation. Makes the crap dialouge sound good. So Perfect for the role, that he’s The Narrator of the “Disney” Timothy Zahn books. Which i recommend more then this shit!
@@SQUIDBEARSTUDIOI blame the writing I think he’s a good actor and I think the reason he doesn’t look in shape is because he was while filming this filming the Witcher where he played a more heavy character he’s the same weight in this as the Witcher now that he is done with the Witcher he will probably lose weight because if you look at when they revealed him at Star Wars celebration he was very skinning so I think he probably has as legally not allowed to lose weight while in the Witcher because he is very skinny now
Last spring, I read all the Thrawn books. (It was Hot Thrawn Spring, ok.) The character in “Rebels” is a pale shadow of the original, in both intellect and moral complexity, but I still prefer those scenes over anything from the recent show.
5:10 Yes but that child in the picture didn't closely resemble Hera at all. Plus to the average xenophobic high ranking Imperial, twileks look pretty similar.
Why the fuck does anyone actually fight for this guy, bro literally ensures the deaths of ships worth of men and endangers the whole mission of the empire for.... What？
I like most of the improvements he made to the pre existing characters, but it feels like once he joined Disney that he just gave up. He's like D&D from Game of Thrones.
you can´t blame people for never reading the thrawn trilogy but in the future those people are going to agree with you after reading the thrawn trilogy
you can criticize how dave made thrawn in rebels and ashoka as much as you want but what I don't like is that when all ppl do is complain not give any possible solutions to it or how to make it better I mean filoni could've chosen not to make him cannon in the first place too
Okay. Upon being removed by the space whales and they have migration patterns then Thrawn would have come back sooner because he would have figured out the migration patterns and used that to his advantage. Upon seeing the rebels on the ground and none of his troops in the area he would have ordered an orbital bombardment. They didn't have shields. Protagonists would die. Have Sabine and Ezra dying to save each other. Have Ahsoka die to help them escape. Something to show that Thrawn is a threat and he is smarter than ALL the protagonists combined.
Dave Falonis writing in the most mediocre shit ever, his directing makes actors feels like Stroic stale planks of wood and his ability to execute live action in poo! Andor on the other hand is a masterpiece of writing, directing and cinematic storytelling, and makes falonis kid friendly show look like a kiddy happy meal
Please, there are way better material out there and Andor is not it. Who even cares about these characters? I sure don’t because they all die in Rogue One anyway.
i think the new canon thrawn books did a better job than rebels and ashoka but that because zahn wrote those books its only to bad zahn is a sell out but i guess that can be forgiven since he didn´t ruined thrawn in the new canon books but maybe he is not a sell out maybe he just didn´t wanna bash disney because he was under disney contract to write thrawn books for the new canon so he lied about filoni version being great
I agree with everything stated, the only time I am not so critical of Disney Thrawn is Rebels season 3. First reason its a show aimed for younger audiences so I understand if his plans are going to be simpler. Two although it is stupid to let the enemy get away to find the location of the rebel base, I always looked at it as Thrawn is younger and less experienced and is trying to understand his enemies so that he can wipe them out in one fell swoop. Three Plot armor, one thing I really hated in Rebels was the Insane amounts of plot armor. Other than that Season 4 Thrawn should have been playing the Rebels like a Flute, forcing the Rebels to make decisions that would lead to there downfall in the long run. Edit:And yes Thrawn should never have lost the battle in the season 3 Finally
Also, in season 3, his plan worked. He narrowed down exactly where they were, took his fleet and would have captured them all. He only didn't kill them because Tarkin ordered him not to. The Mandalorians only showed up because Constantine disobeyed orders because he was more concerned about glory in battle than victory. The failures of Thrawn in season 3 were always things he couldn't control, such as Constantine disobeying a direct order or being ordered himself to NOT kill them all. There was also no way for him to account for the Bendu. His letting them go over and over is what got them to gather their fleets in the first place. They got pilots, they got the plans for the shielded tie-fighters, they stole ships and their confidence was built up to such a degree that they felt confident preparing a large force all the while he figured out where they were. He overwhelmingly won that battle and the rebels just got out by the skin of their teeth, and the heroes were COMPETENT while doing it.
As someone who was excited to see Thrawn in a show and in live action; I have been nothing but disappointed, Thrawn got turned into Skeletor. I think Andor Had a better model for a story even though Cassian Andor is the worst written character in it; I believe it portrays a more "human" connection to the universe. It wasnt as simplified as a cartoon, that in thirty minutes the bad man will lose and everything will reset back to happiness. Just saying Andor did a great job at making possible one off characters extremely real, except for Andor.
the prequels are good even without the clone wars the prequels didn´t have issues its the haters who like to nitpick and filoni who is a prequel hater in disguise choose to please the prequel haters.anakin and obi-wan relationship in episode 2 doesn´t contratict what obi-wan said in episode 4.friends also get mad at one another and you can tell the first time they appeared in episode 2 that they are friends.just because anakin and obi-wan relationship wasn´t perfect in episode 2 doesn´t mean they weren´t friends
Oh please I like the prequels but they had many issues Hayden Christian’s was really bad in episode 2 better in episode 3 I couldn’t believe his and padmes relationship plus Jar Jar was a bad character overall George Lucus is good when he’s giving uses but not fully in control the reason the original trilogy is great is because George lucus had people telling him no he when it comes to creating premise is great but when it comes to filling in the worlds I don’t feel like he is a good example is in the documentary disturbance in the force which is about they Star Wars holiday special the people making the holiday special met with George once and he told them what he called secret information and here is what he told them the reason Han Solo can understand Wookis language is because he was married to a wooki I’m not joking that is what he told them
U say that no Thrawn can't win and beat the heroes because the heroes can't lose....well Dave Filoni could have done what the show Power Rangers did where sometimes there's a 4 or 3 part story arc where the villian wins for a while, they beat the hereos...everything looking Bleak until our hereos over come there situation, he could have done that..
I've not cared for anything Filoni has done with Star Wars outside of the 2008 Clone Wars animated show (and keep in mind, he worked under both George Lucas's creative vision and guidance, plus much more talented writers). Even though I fully admit that Clone Wars is far from perfect. Everything else he's done from Rebels, the Mandalorian and the Ahsoka show (who honestly should have just stayed dead by the end of the 2nd season of Rebels) I have not watched or have any interest in the slightest for. Then again, that's largely due to the fact the Mary Rey Sue Palpatine trilogy forever killed off my interest for modern Star Wars crap under Disney.
There's a trick to writing characters smarter than you. Disney doesn't have any of those writers, unfortunately. If you want more of REAL Thrawn, read Zahn's Ascendency novels and prequels novels. Shows how Thrawn came to be.
I respect Timothy Zahn, but I also believe in detaching the art from the artist. I really like Thrawn in the books because he's well written not necessarily because he's written by Timothy Zahn. Just look at JK Rowling.
I think Zahn liked the chosen voice actor of Lars Mikkelsen to highlight Thrawn's character rather then the writing by Dave. Think he tolerated the Rebels S3 script so he can find a way to make Thrawn more relevant but once Rebels concluded by S4, we saw this divide between Filoni & Zahn after Zahn put out his two recent books of Thrawn after the first novel pre & mid S3.
@@rafezapThe art is the artist, they are one in the same. Ironically, this is literally the premise in which Thrawn exists on. To separate the art from the artist is ignorance.
@@purplesamurai5205 While I agree that the art reveals a lot about the artist, equating it with the creator doesn't seem right to me. For instance, you may create something just because you're paid to do it. Then you as an artist will also have to accept some conditions imposed by your sponsors, starting with the most trivial parts such as deadlines. Moreover, you might want to focus only on one part of your experience while creating your works. These are just examples of factors that might make it much more difficult to treat any work of art as a mere reflection of the author.
9:59 You can't seriously be complaining that Thrawn's actor doesn't look like the books! The performance of the actor matters way more than the appearance. Unless you are suggesting we should only ever hear Thrawn's voice and see him physically separately, because how else can you guarantee that you can find an actor who both looks, sounds like and is a decent enough actor to play Thrawn? Mikkelsen is probably the best Thrawn we've heard vocally even if EU Thrawn as a character is better.
@@robertrostron1550 Filoni stated that that was an intentional redesign for Chiss in general. It wasn't a Disney fuck up, it is Filoni ignoring the lore
@@IronGhost8280 That is actually a good idea, but I think he should be playing his own character, the Grand Inquisitor, in live action. Instead they have had Rupert Friend play him. Friend isn't a bad actor, I loved him in Death of Stalin, but he has been terribly miscast, and the moment I heard he was hired as the Grand Inquisitor I knew that his portrayal won't match Isaac's one at all.
These videos are fun to make, and although that's not a big number, it is a large enough group of people to have a discussion about something I like. It's also the first step towards world domination.
To write an intelligent character, you must have equal or greater intelligence. Filoni has been weighed and measured and found wanting.
See, I disagree with that theory. I think it's perfectly possible to write a character smarter than yourself, because you as a writer have days to come up with solutions that the characters have seconds to resolve. But intelligence represents work and dilligence, effort that is clearly not on display.
@@rafezapYou could be right, but that makes Filoni even dumber than I thought.
@rafezap not to mention to follow up with Zahn and talk about potential new ideas. After Rebels, Dave simply cast Zahn to the side and unfortunately dumb down Thrawn's intelligence.
Thrawn's plan was to wait for the Rebels to draw all their available allies together to liberate Lothal, plus locate their base, and catch them all at the point of major mustering. Then trap and eliminate them - as many as possible. So it was about waiting for the largest amount of fish in the net. Whilst also being ordered to take at least some prisoners (per Tarkin)
That doesn't always come off so well, along the way, but the method is fairly solid.
What it is though - is cold blooded. Lots of expendable forces along the way, justified arguably by the vast Imperial resources and war machine (plus Thrawn is ultimately working towards his own people's benefit, rather than the Empire's, externally, per books)
In Ahsoka it was about moving the... whatever it was, mcguffins, off of Peridea, to his ship, in time to escape with them. Whilst not necessarily being honest with Morrigan, about this.
But yeah, this does feel fairly toned down to his original modus operandi. And yes, somewhat contrived.@@rafezap
Filoni hates the EU and characters that arent his own. Hes trying to get rid of Thrawn and ruin him thoroughly to boost his own favorite toys
What did the European Union do to him
2:26 The best use of the "bad guy that keeps letting the good guys go because _reasons"_ is Koragg the Wolf Knight from Power Rangers Mystic Force. He was an evil, yet honor-bound knight (veeeeery Aurthian legend) who would keep beating the good guys and have them on the ropes and then just _leave_ because it would be dishonorable to stomp them out when they're so weak and beneath him. Like if a little kid started smacking his leg with a wooden stick and called it a sword, he'd shove him into the mud and break his stick, maybe smack him with it for good measure, but he wouldn't _snap the kid's neck._ That's just _beneath_ him.
It happened SO OFTEN it became a _PLOT POINT_ where the other badguys *_put him on TRIAL for not being evil enough_* and accused him of intentionally subverting their Evil Master's goals because he never _"finish the job."_ It was awesome that they actually addressed and utilized the trope, and added onto it to build up the reveal that Koragg was secretly the possessed form of the *_hero named Leanbow, long thought dead, who's been fighting to take back control of this body for YEARS,_* and subtitling influencing the evil spirit 'Koragg' to lean into his honor code to save his _family_ from being killed by him. It was AWESOME.
Disney wars thrawn has the same issue as other disney wars bad guys(not counting Andor)
The main characters have so little brain power that if you distract them, they forget to breath
In order for the good guys to survive they need to have plot armor thicker than reality or the bad guys have to act dumber than a headless chicken
The best part about your very funny comment is that it's not even an exaggeration! 😂
The villains in "Andor" have the problem of just being pathetic.
@CanadianPale The villains in Andor aren’t pathetic at all tbh. Sure Syril is pathetic but he’s not a villain, he’s an antagonist.
@@LordRevan-vi2op and that's what the Imperials in Lucas's Star Wars (barring Tarkin and perhaps Admiral Motti) were: antagonists. By and large they were honourable, competent men who were opposed to the Rebel Alliance because they genuinely believed in the Empire, not because they were inherently malicious people. Of course, "Andor" being a cartoon masquerading as "mature" storytelling doesn't follow up on that, so instead of the cool, focused professionalism of a Piett or a Veers we get sad-sack cereal-eating Syril or some fat doofus chortling about oppressing the natives.
@@CanadianPale Syril isn't an Imperial, though. He was apart of the Corporate Authority and functioned as what would the equivalent of what would be Amazon's private army.
I imagine Thrawn accidently shooting his own leg off by accident and be like "acceptable casualty. things are going according to plan"
I've been called a hater for pointing out how stupid Thrawn's decisions were in the Ashoka show. I didnt watch Rebels so I decided to lay off him and give it a break. Then I saw this and had a little chuckle. How can he be an intelligent villian if he just lets the hero's win and gets bodied when he doesn't mean to let them win? How can you take him seriously? Thank you for helping me realize I'm not insane...
he is a tiny bit better in rebels... BUUUUT not by much.
want to ruin ashoka even more for yourself?
ask this question....
why didnt thrawn pre load all of the nightsisters cargo BEFORE morrigan arrives? if thrawn did, then the show would be over and thrawn wins! lol...
the entire show is constantly having to be retarded because otherwise the show would have ended in episode 1 if the assassin droids sent after sabine used a sniper rifle to kill her, take the orb then leave before ahsoka arrives to go get thrawn...
OR think about this, why does thrawn even WANT to leave this new galaxy? why doesnt thrawn rbing the imperial remnant over to this new galaxy at a later date? thrawn is hyper intelligent and a genius... i would have lured the ghost crew to this new galaxy to stop my return and to save ezra, but secretly i want them to save ezra and think i am trapped in this new galaxy forever but in reality i needed ezra gone so i can build my empire in this new galaxy...
IMAGINE if thrawn brought the imperial remnant to this new galaxy? a new galaxy to strip mine for resources, barren worlds to set up cloning facilities and factories... you could use the nightsisters knowledge of their own galaxy and star maps to farm it for resources and build up a military to rival the new republic who will suspect the empire's remnant was defeated... if even just bring over the people and supplies i need then sacrifice the rest by leaking their base locations to the new republic so they wipe out the remnant i didnt take with me.... so the new republic thinks it won against the empire fully and after a few decades will let their guards down and allow us to infiltrate the government for info... then once we have a new and improved military empire set up in the new galaxy, we will invade seeing as theres only ONE WAY to get to this new galaxy, and thats to go to the stupid space whale graveyard world lol its such a easy place to set up a blockade fleet to annihilate any ships that try to come.
The problem is and always will be trying to execute this in an era of kids' shows that have no teeth. Filoni-Thrawn is just the latest example in poorly executed Xanatos-es. Xatanosi? Xatani? Davids Xanatos?
Xanatos worked as a bad guy in the original gargoyles show *partly* because they didn't literally kick him around _every episode_ and partly because he *lost* in the opening 5-part mini series and we were shown him a.) actually losing and b.) not being terribly set back by actually losing.
Then, as the show progresses, Xanatos works as a villain because he's sort of constantly harming people either indirectly, emotionally, or opportunistically. He recruits one of our main characters' family members away from the good guys to work as his private security, then engineers a situation where that private security dude is put in a position to "accidentally" get mutated. Part of this is just to maintain leverage over the security guard (if Xanatos can find the cure, then Xanatos is the only one who can help him) and partly to wield leverage against one of the show's protagonists, who now has to grapple with her family being drawn into her personal vendetta against this billionaire villain.
And that's just *one story arc.* It actually takes like three episodes to make that happen. And that's important - time. Villainous schemes take time to mature. It's what allows them to build in room for "error" (.e.g good guys winning).
Introducing villainous plans with layers isn't hard, but you have to be willing to let your villains a.) punch up sometimes and b.) punch _down_ sometimes. Their goals have to exist and be obvious beyond the scope of our heroes. They shouldn't be out here stopping our heroes; our heroes need to be out there _stopping them_. Then the act of creating the plan which is ultimately thwarted is already impressive and can be made more so with handwave regressions.
It's the Kang problem where all of these villains are written as if they have the gravitas of hundreds of hours of content. Always talking big game about how many people they killed yet they can't defeat the incompetent main protagonists.
How does the New Republic even work? Why should the Chancellor hold a vote in the Senate to allow the general (!) to take a squadron if only one senator can approve this mission?
Huyang throughout the series: gives logical and rational arguments for why Ahsoka's actions are idiotic.
Ahsoka: no. Do as I say, I have plot armor and plot luck.
Huyang: Okay.
Minefield. Do you have any idea how many mines it takes to mine SPACE? And how long will it take? And why weren't any whales harmed by them?
Naturally, flying straight through the wreckage, you won’t damage even the antenna on your boat...
Sabin, you still haven’t told Ezra the situation, even though you don’t have time? What a stupid cow you are...
How did Beilan and Shin negotiate with the red riders, who obviously do not know their language and who caught them over the corpses of their comrades?
Naturally, Ahsoka and Sabine can connect mentally, despite the fact that Sabine is insensitive to the Force... and Ezra is sitting next to her, but Ahsoka does not feel him...
Witches can not only sense Ahsoka, but also determine her position on the map with an accuracy of up to a meter? But they couldn't find Ezra for 10 years?
Thrawn, if you don't care whether you defeat your enemies or not because you'll get off the planet, why don't you just shoot and bomb them from the air instead of sending a useless landing party? Actually, you don’t have many soldiers left, and you still have to fight the Republic...
Ezra. You're a fucking Jedi. Take your fucking lightsaber and fight Shin! Sabin doesn't even use it!
Ezra is so strong that he can forcefully stop Shin's blows, but Shin can knock him back and knock him out?
The Ninja Turtles invented flying armored personnel carriers, but they shoot with fucking slingshots? By armored riders? How about just running them over?
Ahsoka, why did you jump off to fight Baylan if your goal is to help Ezra and Ahsoka and he doesn’t threaten them? And your plan was to let Huyang burn you with flashes?
Naturally, Ahsoka can simply drive into the frame through a crowd of stormtroopers, they can’t do anything at all...
How about disarming and tying up Shin so you have a hostage and an extra lightsaber? No?
In short, I've had enough. The series is shit, which will be licked because they showed us a hologram of Anakin and he said “Ventress.” Filoni is an arrogant hack, no better than Abrams or Johnson. Thanks everyone for reading.
"Everybody likes to praise Dave Filoni as the savior for Star Wars, but for me he always seemed to be the type of writer that changed Star Wars into what he wants it to be, even at the cost of the writing."
THANK you. This man speaks truth. Round of applause. Part of the reason The Mandalorian stopped working for me is because it felt like as Filoni took over more of the writing duties, it stopped being a cool space western about a merc dad, and started to be.. Yet Another Clone Wars Sequel. I initially loved the character of Ahsoka the same as everyone else, but after a decade and a half of tv shows, comic books, novels and cartoons where she's the focus or a major player her character feels all tapped out, but Filoni won't let her go and is determined to keep her in narrative focus just as much as, if not more so than, any of the Skywalkers. I'm not trying to hate but Star Wars feels like less and less of a sandbox for various authors, filmmakers and artists to build upon, and more and more Filoni making it an overlong extension of Clone Wars and Rebels.
Thrawn after getting half his fleet blown up, not by the enemy, but by just bumping into them with his star destroyer and blowing them up: “Hm yes… all according to plan…”
Sorry, Thrawn has been sent to the past and molded into the rebellion. He calls himself Luthen Rael now.
The key thing about defeating thrawn in an authentic way, Thrawn isnt defeated by out thinking him. He is defeated because of the small actions the good guys take which lead to a snowball effect that Thrawn couldnt possibly have predicted. Any planned countermove would have been discovered by him and overcome. Thats why his last words are "it was so artfully done" when his bodyguard stabbed him, because in that moment he realized what must have happened and that the Noghri were working with leia behind his back.
The biggest problem with FIloni is he is stuck doing silly fan service to thousands when Disney needs him to write compelling stories that will attract millions. The movies have always been the heart of Star Wars and while Filoni has been given a shot at live action, he seems to still want to tell thinly plotted kid's stories. I love the Clone Wars / Rebels but they only work for me because I don't think about the animated stories as seriously. I really hope they get a writer's room for the Ahsoka/Mando TV shows / movie or they'll be massive flops and it'll be a long time before we revisit this era of Star Wars. And let Zahn help with the characterization of Thrawn - there's a reason the books are still popular.
Filoni's main problem is that his story is over but Disneu wants more from him...
just let him be done!
I was once brainwashed too. I thought Filoni was going to Star Wars and honor the Eu because I liked The Clone Wars and I liked the first two seasons of The Mandalorian. The moment I woke up was when I saw The Book of Boba Fett and The Bad Batch, two shows where nothing really happens. That's when I saw Filoni as a hack but I was willing to give him a chance until I saw this show and his portrayal of Thrawn.
Filoni didn't make Book of Boba Fett or Bad Batch dumbass.
They really gave Thrawn the Hux treatment... Honestly I'd argue Hux actively did more than whatever the hell Thrawn did during Dave Filoni's writing (Not counting the bullshit spy arc because what the Hell was that)
My opinion of Filoni changed drasticly in the past few year it's crazy
Timothy Zahn wrote 6 new books to tie in with Disney Star Wars and they are excellent in portraying Thrawn. 3 are set during his time in the Empire and 3 leading up to his exile in rhe Chiss Ascendancy.
Dave Filoni chose to disregard his ENTIRE character arc and any development Timothy Zahn put into the character. The Rebels/Ahsoka Thrawn is a completely different person.
Filoni's Thrawn was taking lessons from Tzeentch.
Thrawn was already ruined in rebels, especially when he was defeated by a gaint flying yak and space whales. Dave Filoni has never created about the continuity created by others starting day one TCW.
Damn, this is the actual most perfect explaination to the entire issue, adressing everything very well.
I feel like at a certain point a tie fighter would have at least accidentally shot down a rebel craft.
Thrawn was the imperial you found yourself almost cheering for.
He is an alien, he shows care for his troops, he is intelligent and tactical. He is different to all other imperial leaders you see and it makes you think “maybe he is actually not that bad. Maybe he could do some good with his power”
Sadly Thrawn has been dumbed down to make the dumber hero’s win all the time
Disney Thrawn is a mixed bag for me. On the one hand you have the lows of Filoni handling him. On the other, you have some incredible highs in the new books wirtten by Zhan.
I never read a single Thrawn book and even I can tell that this is not the character that people would have fallen in love with.
Let's go over the tactical ineptitude, shall we?
1. Designing a kill box that can't kill
2. Calling off a successful attack on your enemy
3. Sending insufficient resources and manpower to engage an enemy
4. Engaging an enemy that poses no threat to you
5. Making another kill box than can't kill
6. Making ANOTHER Killbox that can't kill
7. No guards or impediments for enemies in your base
And despite all of THAT!!! he somehow wins because the good guys are still worse...
Goddamnit, he's right. Now that I see it I cant freaking unsee it -_-
See what?
"Expaned the universe they threw away" perfect quote to summarize the state of Star Wars
I honestly think we haven't quite seen what Thrawn is capable of yet. Ahsoka was just the start and IIRC for rebels he consulted Zahn to an extent so...yeah.
Hopefully your right I want Zahn to have more say over how they handle thrawn
They took a competent, well thought out character, that could be an actual threat. Just to stick him in a blender, spit on him, then make him look like elon musk in the live action
First, a little devil's advocate - I personally think there's always some degree of contrivance involved in a character like Thrawn. Geniuses are difficult to write properly. Case in point, in that intro scene you described from Heir : If I remember correctly it was a deduction about a given species ability to perform some kind of directional maneuver (based on their art, as you said). I might be misrepresenting that scene because it's been a sobering number of years since I read it, but I do distinctly remember that even as a child I kinda thought the whole scenario was a little fetched and contained some potential logical plot holes (one being a very common sci-fi trope that sees non-humans as inherently less complex and more 2-dimensional than they should be).
All that said, Zahn 100% tried and largely succeeded at describing a wildly competent and fundamentally likeable underdog antagonist. Of all Star Wars villains he remains my favourite by far. It doesn't take some great leap of imagination to see why people would want to serve under him, and why the New Republic was legitimately terrified of him. It probably goes without saying I don't think Filoni has even come close to doing the character justice, and it blows my mind to see anyone giving that guy praise as a creative. In my personal opinion he's just a massive gaslighter who appeals to very young children and simpletons. I don't even think the "young children" thing is an adequate excuse - I totally nitpicked Zahn's (far superior) books as a 10 year old, so I have no reason to think I'd enjoy the dumbed down Filoniverse at literally any age.
Put simply the dude is a hack. We saw in Ahsoka he can't even handle his own characters correctly, in that they all come across as terrible people (literally episode 2 : "let's play with this tactical nuke inside a hospital"), but he wants to pretend he can handle the biggest brain villain in the entire franchise? Bruh. Talk about being promoted to the level of incompetence. Andor is the only hope this franchise has, and fingers crossed that cowboy hat wearing character assassin stays far away from season 2.
the problem with Filoni is that he's already told his stories in Clone Wars and Rebels, he's done but they keep trying to get more out of him!
Thrawn needs to "save resources..." For what exactly? Why do you need to preserve resources? It holds true during the ten years he was in Exile. He was trapped in a foreign galaxy practically as a castaway so it makes sense but NOT anymore... His priorities changed from survival to ESCAPE. Now, you must switch gear and use all of your resources available because Ahsoka and Co. Poses a real threat to your new objective of escaping so there is no longer any point in preserving his resources. His ONE half-baked Star Destroyer is not going to add much in the large scheme of things to the Imperial Remnant's arsenal. It is HE that is the resource that is valuable, not his actual hardware. Thrawn will have plenty of resources once he returns anyway so it makes no sense.
unless he has to face a degree of fighting for control given the greed of imperial warlords in either canon or legends
I've read the Thrawn trilogy and I wish that Thrawn was done better, he deserved more. Screw disney for ruining Star Wars
the thrawn trilogy is even in a comic version so there’s no excuse
I think it is like my take on Doctor Who. Matt Smith was a very fun actor, but they did bizarre story decisions etc. Whole plot arcs completely unresolved and again hidden by pretending to be clever. But the Doctor was really well played, so watching it, you're enjoying his performance. And only when you think about it you go,
Hey, Why did the Tardis explode? How did that happen? Why didn't it happen a second time? Where did the Cybermen come from? Why aren't the Daleks a universal threat anymore? Etc etc
And Thrawn is played charismatically, so you sort of forget that he is bland story wise
6:55 Eh, I don't know, purposefully allowing the Rebels to gather in such numbers where he could destroy them was a pretty smart move by Thrawn, the real issue is *how* he is shown to do it. If all of these Rebel victories were minor then I could understand his attitude, but Thrawn was just so damn arrogant the entire time. Even with Mikkelsen's good performance, Thrawn comes off as a smug arsehole at almost every point.
Also why are you so pissed about 7:44 ? Thrawn is supposed to hate orbital bombardments and in Legends he considered the battle of Kalee his biggest failure even though he won because he couldn't think of another way to beat the Kalee warriors using their culture and art. The real problem is the fact that Filoni has him do not 1 but 2 orbital bombardments.
Thrawn really needed to win a game of 4d chess in Asoka, as in give the main cast a goal that leads them further away from the main goal. Something like take Sabean to the other side of the planet and have your big battle there so that the good guys tough it out and rescue Sabean while Thrawn makes a clean get away. This would also rhyme with something like dark force rising where the heroes manage to save one of the ships, while losing out on the fleet. In other words Thrawn is at his best when the heroes achieve a hollow victory, and it's revealed that they were completely outplayed.
3:45 OK, this particular criticism is a tad unfair. Thrawn does explain his tactics sometimes in the novels in both Canon and Legends, but usually he gives orders with no context to his crew and generally only explains to Pellaon or one of the other main officer characters after he has already executed his plan. Thus we as the audience should know what Thrawn's plan was when he explains it to a few characters *after* he has already executed his plan, not before.
Thrawn looks incompetent - how can they do this to us
Thrawn’s Actor Is The Saving Grace Of His “Disney” Adaptation. Makes the crap dialouge sound good. So Perfect for the role, that he’s The Narrator of the “Disney” Timothy Zahn books. Which i recommend more then this shit!
He's definitely a good voice actor, but his body doesn't match the character at all.
@@rafezap If only he got in shape or at least dubbed a more suitable actor, then he wouldve been great.
@@SQUIDBEARSTUDIOI blame the writing I think he’s a good actor and I think the reason he doesn’t look in shape is because he was while filming this filming the Witcher where he played a more heavy character he’s the same weight in this as the Witcher now that he is done with the Witcher he will probably lose weight because if you look at when they revealed him at Star Wars celebration he was very skinning so I think he probably has as legally not allowed to lose weight while in the Witcher because he is very skinny now
Last spring, I read all the Thrawn books. (It was Hot Thrawn Spring, ok.) The character in “Rebels” is a pale shadow of the original, in both intellect and moral complexity, but I still prefer those scenes over anything from the recent show.
Soooo many valid points! 👌 👏
5:10 Yes but that child in the picture didn't closely resemble Hera at all. Plus to the average xenophobic high ranking Imperial, twileks look pretty similar.
I liked trench better than thrawn
you can dislike the prequels but the prequels don´t have issues
I’m sorry what there are so many flaws in the prequels
Thrawn in the Ahsoka series is portrayed as the Black Knight from Monty Python..."Acceptable Losses...merely a flesh wound..."
the jojo music playing in the background.
u dont imagine how much ive rooted for thrawn
Why the fuck does anyone actually fight for this guy, bro literally ensures the deaths of ships worth of men and endangers the whole mission of the empire for.... What？
Timothy Zahn wrote new Canon books about thrawn, they were also absolutely amazing
Honestly we should let Timothy Zahn write thrawn dialogue and plans
"This version of Thrawn talks like how a stupid person thinks a smart person talks." - The Little Platoon
Yes thank you someone who agree with me that Dave Filoni ruined Grand Admiral Thrawn
That's interesting I would like to read these books about admiral Thrawn.
Other then Maul and baylon all of filonis chracters are painfully one dimensional. look at what he did to dooku and he made grievous a joke
He also gave clones inhibitor chips which was shit writing alongside space whales, gods, time dimensions, and keeping Ahsoka alive
Anakin’s portrayal was good though
I like most of the improvements he made to the pre existing characters, but it feels like once he joined Disney that he just gave up. He's like D&D from Game of Thrones.
@@Xeta_ Iv grown to like the inhibitor chips but i think anakins patryal was just him copying the depiction we got from the start of rots
I'm pretty sure Dave Filoni didn't WRITE it, just gave out ideas. Or...maybe I'm wrong.
Krispy Kreme Manager Thrawn
Nice Thumbnail change, but you still have a lot left to learn! 😉
I hope so! I would hate it if I peaked so early.
He was also supposed to be someone who inspired his men. The fact he had the opposite effect on Kallus felt very off.
Kallus was a spy he was onto agent Kallus I could get that
Damn you are speaking facts
you can´t blame people for never reading the thrawn trilogy but in the future those people are going to agree with you after reading the thrawn trilogy
you can criticize how dave made thrawn in rebels and ashoka as much as you want but what I don't like is that when all ppl do is complain not give any possible solutions to it or how to make it better I mean filoni could've chosen not to make him cannon in the first place too
Okay.
Upon being removed by the space whales and they have migration patterns then Thrawn would have come back sooner because he would have figured out the migration patterns and used that to his advantage.
Upon seeing the rebels on the ground and none of his troops in the area he would have ordered an orbital bombardment. They didn't have shields.
Protagonists would die. Have Sabine and Ezra dying to save each other. Have Ahsoka die to help them escape. Something to show that Thrawn is a threat and he is smarter than ALL the protagonists combined.
Clone wars sucks as well, Im kind of afraid of how bad the disney stuff if you liked the clone wars
Dave Falonis writing in the most mediocre shit ever, his directing makes actors feels like Stroic stale planks of wood and his ability to execute live action in poo! Andor on the other hand is a masterpiece of writing, directing and cinematic storytelling, and makes falonis kid friendly show look like a kiddy happy meal
Please, there are way better material out there and Andor is not it. Who even cares about these characters? I sure don’t because they all die in Rogue One anyway.
Prequel is a thing@@the-point-bearer6689
Don’t worry you’ll get it when you’re older :)
i think the new canon thrawn books did a better job than rebels and ashoka but that because zahn wrote those books its only to bad zahn is a sell out but i guess that can be forgiven since he didn´t ruined thrawn in the new canon books but maybe he is not a sell out maybe he just didn´t wanna bash disney because he was under disney contract to write thrawn books for the new canon so he lied about filoni version being great
I agree with everything stated, the only time I am not so critical of Disney Thrawn is Rebels season 3.
First reason its a show aimed for younger audiences so I understand if his plans are going to be simpler.
Two although it is stupid to let the enemy get away to find the location of the rebel base, I always looked at it as Thrawn is younger and less experienced and is trying to understand his enemies so that he can wipe them out in one fell swoop.
Three Plot armor, one thing I really hated in Rebels was the Insane amounts of plot armor.
Other than that Season 4 Thrawn should have been playing the Rebels like a Flute, forcing the Rebels to make decisions that would lead to there downfall in the long run.
Edit:And yes Thrawn should never have lost the battle in the season 3 Finally
Also, in season 3, his plan worked. He narrowed down exactly where they were, took his fleet and would have captured them all. He only didn't kill them because Tarkin ordered him not to. The Mandalorians only showed up because Constantine disobeyed orders because he was more concerned about glory in battle than victory.
The failures of Thrawn in season 3 were always things he couldn't control, such as Constantine disobeying a direct order or being ordered himself to NOT kill them all. There was also no way for him to account for the Bendu.
His letting them go over and over is what got them to gather their fleets in the first place. They got pilots, they got the plans for the shielded tie-fighters, they stole ships and their confidence was built up to such a degree that they felt confident preparing a large force all the while he figured out where they were. He overwhelmingly won that battle and the rebels just got out by the skin of their teeth, and the heroes were COMPETENT while doing it.
Dave filoni is only good to star wars for those who likes fan service, because this is the only thing he knows how to do
Fan service
As someone who was excited to see Thrawn in a show and in live action; I have been nothing but disappointed, Thrawn got turned into Skeletor. I think Andor Had a better model for a story even though Cassian Andor is the worst written character in it; I believe it portrays a more "human" connection to the universe. It wasnt as simplified as a cartoon, that in thirty minutes the bad man will lose and everything will reset back to happiness. Just saying Andor did a great job at making possible one off characters extremely real, except for Andor.
the prequels are good even without the clone wars the prequels didn´t have issues its the haters who like to nitpick and filoni who is a prequel hater in disguise choose to please the prequel haters.anakin and obi-wan relationship in episode 2 doesn´t contratict what obi-wan said in episode 4.friends also get mad at one another and you can tell the first time they appeared in episode 2 that they are friends.just because anakin and obi-wan relationship wasn´t perfect in episode 2 doesn´t mean they weren´t friends
Oh please I like the prequels but they had many issues Hayden Christian’s was really bad in episode 2 better in episode 3 I couldn’t believe his and padmes relationship plus Jar Jar was a bad character overall George Lucus is good when he’s giving uses but not fully in control the reason the original trilogy is great is because George lucus had people telling him no he when it comes to creating premise is great but when it comes to filling in the worlds I don’t feel like he is a good example is in the documentary disturbance in the force which is about they Star Wars holiday special the people making the holiday special met with George once and he told them what he called secret information and here is what he told them the reason Han Solo can understand Wookis language is because he was married to a wooki I’m not joking that is what he told them
Dude. Star Wars is dead and a person who isn’t smart can’t write a smart villain. Sorry to drop reality on you but you know I’m not lying.
why you agree with the prequel haters?are you one of them?
U say that no Thrawn can't win and beat the heroes because the heroes can't lose....well Dave Filoni could have done what the show Power Rangers did where sometimes there's a 4 or 3 part story arc where the villian wins for a while, they beat the hereos...everything looking Bleak until our hereos over come there situation, he could have done that..
insaine video thank you. / from sweden.
I've not cared for anything Filoni has done with Star Wars outside of the 2008 Clone Wars animated show (and keep in mind, he worked under both George Lucas's creative vision and guidance, plus much more talented writers). Even though I fully admit that Clone Wars is far from perfect. Everything else he's done from Rebels, the Mandalorian and the Ahsoka show (who honestly should have just stayed dead by the end of the 2nd season of Rebels) I have not watched or have any interest in the slightest for. Then again, that's largely due to the fact the Mary Rey Sue Palpatine trilogy forever killed off my interest for modern Star Wars crap under Disney.
There's a trick to writing characters smarter than you. Disney doesn't have any of those writers, unfortunately. If you want more of REAL Thrawn, read Zahn's Ascendency novels and prequels novels. Shows how Thrawn came to be.
This is just wrong, Thrawn is perfect
Imagine casting bootleg Elon Musk as Thrawn
Thats why im against bringing characters from EU, Disney and Feloni will destroy em
Why does the live action thrawn look like Elon Musk.
Say it with me
Disney starwars isn't cannon
Dave Filoni hasn’t ruined Thrawn if Timothy Zahn likes Filoni’s version of Thrawn
I respect Timothy Zahn, but I also believe in detaching the art from the artist. I really like Thrawn in the books because he's well written not necessarily because he's written by Timothy Zahn. Just look at JK Rowling.
I think Zahn liked the chosen voice actor of Lars Mikkelsen to highlight Thrawn's character rather then the writing by Dave. Think he tolerated the Rebels S3 script so he can find a way to make Thrawn more relevant but once Rebels concluded by S4, we saw this divide between Filoni & Zahn after Zahn put out his two recent books of Thrawn after the first novel pre & mid S3.
@@SolidAvenger1290 That’s my issue, Filoni basically stole Thrawn
@@rafezapThe art is the artist, they are one in the same. Ironically, this is literally the premise in which Thrawn exists on. To separate the art from the artist is ignorance.
@@purplesamurai5205 While I agree that the art reveals a lot about the artist, equating it with the creator doesn't seem right to me. For instance, you may create something just because you're paid to do it. Then you as an artist will also have to accept some conditions imposed by your sponsors, starting with the most trivial parts such as deadlines. Moreover, you might want to focus only on one part of your experience while creating your works. These are just examples of factors that might make it much more difficult to treat any work of art as a mere reflection of the author.
9:59 You can't seriously be complaining that Thrawn's actor doesn't look like the books! The performance of the actor matters way more than the appearance. Unless you are suggesting we should only ever hear Thrawn's voice and see him physically separately, because how else can you guarantee that you can find an actor who both looks, sounds like and is a decent enough actor to play Thrawn? Mikkelsen is probably the best Thrawn we've heard vocally even if EU Thrawn as a character is better.
Its always been explicitly mentioned in the books that you can't see Thrawn's pupils, but that's obviously Disney's fault and not the actor's.
@@robertrostron1550 Filoni stated that that was an intentional redesign for Chiss in general. It wasn't a Disney fuck up, it is Filoni ignoring the lore
I thought Jason Isaacs would make a good Thrawn.
@@IronGhost8280 That is actually a good idea, but I think he should be playing his own character, the Grand Inquisitor, in live action. Instead they have had Rupert Friend play him. Friend isn't a bad actor, I loved him in Death of Stalin, but he has been terribly miscast, and the moment I heard he was hired as the Grand Inquisitor I knew that his portrayal won't match Isaac's one at all.
Rage on brother. I'm sure you're 397 subscribers will be thrilled.
These videos are fun to make, and although that's not a big number, it is a large enough group of people to have a discussion about something I like.
It's also the first step towards world domination.