Thanks for watching :) if you enjoyed send it to you friends and lmk which version of Order 66 you like better! If this video does well I'll start working on another fun long one. Do you guys want jawas, zillo beast, or more clones?
Zillo, Jaws or more clones all sound like great long videos, I'd watch any of those. Along with the changes made to order 66 it's also interesting just how much the concept of the Cline Wars changed in the old canon between Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith
Disney bought all of Star Wars in 2006. George Lucas had no connection to Star Wars at all by 2008 when the purchase was fully completed and Disney ended up having to kick George Lucas off the property of Disney when George Lucas went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney Film industries pissed off claiming he was not paid for the purchase of Star Wars. George Lucas bought a bunch of crap and that stuff broke because he crashed them or he did stupid shit with them. Disney paid George Lucas $8.7 billion and George Lucas lost 100% of the money in less than 2 years. Yes that is correct. Also George Lucas has lost everything he owned and is living in the spare bedroom of his niece who is the only family member who is willing to take care of him because he has pissed off every other family member he has. He is blatantly an elderly bum living off his niece who literally takes care of him. George Lucas did in fact lose about $50 million which he for some unknown stupid reason put $50 million on pre paid gift cards and he lost them because he ripped his cloths off somewhere and wen streaking down San Francisco butt ass naked screaming about Disney sent the white rabbit mafia with their taco mounts are trying to take over the world. George Lucas was fucked up on some kind of drug and his $50 million he put on gift cards which turned out he stappled to his closes were never found. He literally bought a stapler and stapled the cards to his cloths at the Target he bought the gift cards. The Target employees just thought hell he just got money and was doing stupid shit with it for fun but turns out that was the last money out of his $8.7 billon. He spent every dime in less than a couple of months then got taken back to his home after he was a complete lunatic. Then creditors started calling and he didn't have any money left and he kind of accidentally burn the mansions he bought to the ground along with crashing his super yachts and he crashed all the cars and even some how destroyed his new helicopter by hitting the helicopter with one of his new cars. His main mansion got repossessed because he owed way too much in taxes and stuff. George Lucas then went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney film studios claiming Disney never paid him and just stole Star Wars from him and Disney ha enough and they banned him for life and had him escorted off the property in cuffs. His niece bailed him out and took him home with her and George Lucas has not stopped his blatant lying about Disney because he is a crazy old man who literally is pissed off because he went broke because of his own stupidity and yet can't except responsibility. Mark Hammel has also been banned for life because Mark Hammel has pulled similar shit after getting drunk off his ass and then picking fights in which he went into the Marvel filming studio and tried telling Robert Downy Jr how to act and punching Robert before Robert knocked out several teeth of Mark and Mark got escorted out in cuffs as well. Mark gets really stupid when he drinks which he is always drunk. Its actually why the last movie didn't even have Mark Hammel in it at all it was CGI and half way threw the second to last movie Mark became CGI as well an no one really notices.
The Plo Koon scene is probably one of the best things to show when you talk about why the chips were needed. No matter how disciplined your troops are, you could never convince them to turn on someone who truly fought, bled and cared for you.
@@SkywalkerFoe yep yep history show but really these clone spent decade being doctrine and brainwash to follow order and the republic, them only spending example like plo koon for like 4 year is not enough to betray the republic.
You give people far too much credit. Not to go all rule 34, but in Germany, people literally ratted their neighbors out for no other reason than because the party told them that they were the problem, in complete contravention to reality and their personal experience. Now, take soldiers who are mentally conditioned to follow orders, had even less inhibitions against rounding up and interning the ' undesirables '. This is why it is very believable that humans raised from birth to follow orders would, against all evidence of their own experiences, would gun down the Jedi.
Pretty sure the only commander he addresses by name in the movie is Cody. Probably did him first specifically to get rid of Obi Wan. Gotta be dramatic for the first transmission leading into the new galactic order. Seemed the rest of the commanders got the same generic message.
It's implied in the movie that it had to take place at the exact same time for it to work. We see that it came later for Yoda, and he already knew what was coming because he sensed Jedi all across the galaxy dying.
@@battlesheep2552It was even explained in The Bad Batch that if the clones didn’t receive the initial transmission from Palpatine, they would be sent a text message telling them to execute Order 66.
The biggest reason why the chips had to be introduced is that Filoni made the clones too loyal. We needed more generals like Krell. We needed clones to resent Jedi for being so gung-ho, or being poor generals. It would have made it more complex, to have the clones constantly mulling over what they must do, and have dissent grow
I dont think they just made the clones to loyal. They straight up made them to nice. They follow morals that are objectively good, unlike their Legends portrayal, even though they are breed as soldiers, not as peace keepers. The only time a clone from the TV Show did something that comes closer to their Legends portrayal, is in the Umbara-Arc, there one clone executes an Umbaran without remorse. When I watched the episode as a kid, I thought the show was setting up the clones darker side
Yeah, I call bullshit. Even in Legends, the Jedi were explained to be respected by the clones. For example: Aayla Secura. Even the 501st logs said she was respected among her own clones. So no, I honestly don’t believe a sane human, or clone would follow through with this order.
@BarneyisJehova Well, Ki-Adi-Mundi was one of those Jedi which was resented by the Galactic Marines. In legends they really took satisfaction in killing him because of how poor a general he was. I think we needed to see more of that, or at least get some sense of reasoning, because that makes better drama. It almost feels too impersonal when it's just a mind control chip, rather than following through on real character driven feelings
@@quartztemplar3676 Sure, Ki was kind of a terrible General. But that’s the exception, not the norm. And we have to remember, Palpatine is insanely corrupt. If we make the Clones able to think, then I highly doubt they’d side with Sidious, especially when considering the Clones have to know that Sidious is leading the CIS. So why would they side with the guy who’s sending them to a proxy war?
The big problem is that the clones were not originally intended to be characters. They were just faceless tools to keep the plot moving. Which, yeah, has a lot of weird and interesting meta implications. I personally strongly dislike The Chips, mainly because I hate the "Evil Switch" as a writing crutch (it's extremely cheap and lazy), but also because they have such an overpowered effect that it makes no sense that they're _only_ used on the clones. Palpatine should be using these _everywhere._ In the end, it's just a way out from the multi-way collision of several authors all separately writing towards the same point. I can't really begrudge them that, but it does feel bad they didn't get the chance to come up with a more coherent answer.
"If droids could think, there would be none of us here would there?" Obi Wan just happens to stumble on a clone army 10 mins later. Lucas couldn't have been much more explicit about the role the clones were supposed to play.
@@pumpmyanxiety4447Can't speak for the other guy but the EU already had this handled. Everyone in the GAR, including the Jedi knew about Order 66 but never believed it would be used because the Jedi would never betray the Republic. The Clones were all pre-programed with loyalty to the Republic with levels of free will being dictated by rank and unit. So while say Scorch for example could refuse to execute the order, your average Clone would not because of their loyalty. This way the Clones still obey but it's not just an "evil switch" as OP called them
@@connorharnage6697Granted, those clones were specially bred clones like Nulls or Clone Commandos while the rank-and-file clones were much more like droids in thinking. My favorite example is from the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ where a group of clone commandos assigned with a jedi refused to follow Order 66, thinking it was a Separatist trick, while the regular clones followed it blindly to the point they were willing to use human wave tactics against the commandos to get at the Jedi.
I always felt like Legends version was way more heartbreaking and cold compared to canon version because it just showed how brainwashed and disciplined as well as loyal to the “Republic” the clones really were
@@misteranthropy7082I think it depends on how you see it. Personally I think its way more tragic to be betrayed by a friend, instead of a friend that was mind controlled. The latter didnt really betray you and he might not even be aware of his actions. What I like about legends, is that some of the clones have to deal with the choice they made. They werent mind controlled. Brainwashed, yes but they did have somewhat of a choice to disobey what they have been thaught. And a few clones did disobey. I think thats way more compelling.
@@misteranthropy7082 statistically less clones were friends with Jedi, they were switching generals a lot, and not much of them did well as general either, resulting in big losses
@@mareklonestar7053 - Perhaps, from a certain point of view. Personally, I find it far more compelling to address the humanity of the clones in contrast to how the Kaminoans, and much of the Republic, treat them. The chip is not only perfectly plausible for an operation as advanced as Kamino’s, but demonstrates their utter lack of impunity toward the living beings they breed and sell. The Clone Wars and The Bad Batch, the former of which can be counted as part of Legends to a certain degree, pose questions of clones’ rights and citizenship postwar, as well as their quality of life given their rapid growth and shortened lifespan. These are important questions worthy of consideration within the Star Wars universe and its fan base. The best part is that not all clones have to concern themselves with these questions. I have no problem imagining Alpha and Fives existing in the same plot line, with the former totally at peace with his purpose as a soldier and the latter going rogue to prove that he and his brothers are more than hardware. They are not mutually exclusive.
16:00 I Will say the Battle Front 2 game (amazing game btw) is more of a reflection, so its a stormtrooper looking back on his journal, thus why each mission begins as journal #. So that may clean up some of the confusion about clones "Knowing" about Order 66.
Personally I think a mixture of both should have applied. The thing is, would Palpatine really have left the clones, the weapon he would use to wipe out the Jedi, to make the final decision on their own? Yeah they're genetically bred to be more obedient, but I don't think Palpatine would be the type of person to have his all encompassing plan to leave a gap, however small, to have a failure if the clones just mostly refuse the order, especially for units like the 501st and Wolfpack, both of whom adore their Jedi commanders. The whole mind control thing however is a bit lazy, but it opens up a whole new angle to the clones that I feel almost everybody talking about Order 66 misses: the chips reframe the clones because they are now also victims in the whole ordeal. They never wanted to kill their masters but were forced to. I think that makes Order 66 hit harder and is the primary reason why the canon Order 66 is also accepted heavily. There's also the fact that the alternative raises tons of questions, such as to why Cody, after being such close friends would so unflinchingly blast Obi Wan off the cliff. Personally I think the whole chips vs orders debate really boils down to what you want Order 66 and the clones to be. If you want it to be even more horrifying, with the clones as essentially living droids or super soldiers, the Orders explanation will appeal to you. But if you want Order 66 to be instead the galaxy's greatest tragedy, and the clones to be happy puppets on a string, unaware that the puppetmasters want them to dance, the chips are probably your headcanon.
@@arandomcommenter0135 Except the chips introduce a technology that (like most of Filoni’s slop) completely derails the OT and makes the events of the films impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternethow exactly? The chips could only really work when used with the clones. As I’m certain more people would’ve noticed the government throwing thousands upon thousands of people into brain surgery. Not even the greatest tactical mind can cover that up forever
Although not completely flushed out in the movies, George did want the clones and Jedi to form bonds. It’s clear through obi-wan scenes with one of the only named clones who was given dialogue at the time Commander Cody. And with scenes like the opening space battle where Anakin wanted to break off in order to help his clone wingmen once he saw they were getting shot down by droid interceptors. The movie hinted at it but never flushed it out. In The Clone Wars, George (not Dave btw, it was George’s story) was finally able to expand on the clones and Jedi’s bond they formed together during the war. So then the chips were a way to solidify Sidius’ control over his grand plan, since now that George was focusing on elaborating the relationship between Jedi and clones, it wouldn’t make sense that every single clone would respond to order 66 now that each and every clone has a unique relationship with their Jedi generals, some stronger than others. There needed to be a full proof way for Sidius’ plan to go off without any chance of failure. The inhibitor chips is that failsafe. And it just makes more sense this way. Why would Sidius put his complete trust in clones of a bounty hunter even if they were genetically uttered to be more loyal as an army and as soldiers. They may be clones but they were still people with free thoughts and a free will. The chips are much more of a guarantee that no matter what may take place the clones will execute order 66 no matter what, and put an end to the jedi
I do not get people who think George had little to no influence in TCW. But this was also the thought process I held onto as well, that the Canon version of Order 66 makes way more sense from Palpatine's view. In Legends, many clones did not go through with the order, but in Canon it's only around 4 active soldiers who did not initially carry it out. Also, with the chips there is no way that the Jedi can sense any deception in the Clones, but to be fair, the Jedi were a bit arrogant at this time so I don't think it would have mattered anyways.
@Bubby021 Yea ikr, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But i watched a vid from @Hero_of_Sinnoh who did a good video about that topic called "the most misunderstood fact behind Starwars:The clone wars". He really did it justice. And yes exactly i agree completely
@Bubby021 Yea, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But I recently watched a video from Hero of Sinnoh called "the most misunderstood fact about starwars the clone wars" and he really did the topic justice. And yes Exactly i completely agree
@@Bubby021He had influence... Just not more than Filoni who constantly went behind George's back and made massive changes. Also while true the chips make sense from Palpatine's perspective, it makes for a less satisfying story overall, especially when the programming from the EU worked well enough while providing a fun amount of drama
In that case, why would Sideous use Clones at all? Why not use droids or even start using his new chips with prisoners to turn them into a slave army? He could even openly advertise the inhibiter chips as something to reform hardened criminals line the Terran Confederacy in Starcraft 1. And it also ruins the OT as such a chip would certainly be even more handy on imperial citizens, never mind in the military. So most of the people who defect wouldn't and we would have a repeat of the Clone Wars, only with the Separatists without the massive droid armies and more reliant on people to fight.
The contingency plans and the inhibitor chip don't necessarily need to be exclusive. In the Traviss books, we learn that Palpatine is having Arcana Micro (Kamino's competitor) create clone troopers on Centex IV. They increased the growth acceleration time from 10 yrs to 1 yr. These troopers would be replacements that could have the inhibitor chips put in. The Kamino 1st generation clones could have learned the plans but not have the chips. The chips could have been added after Palpatine & his agents saw how close a relationship the Jedi & clones were creating. Also, the Jedi were all too willing to accept clones. In the EU, Quinlan Voss and others never liked the clones and treated them as no more than subhuman meat droids. You needed more of that in TCW. Pong Krell, much as I hate him, really showed this well. There had to be other Jedi that treated the troopers as callously as these two. (On a side note) I urge everyone to read all of Traviss's SW novels. They are very enjoyable, and the characters are so well developed. Also, she created the Mandalorian culture. TCW ruined it. You will learn to speak some Mando'a, ner vods.
Kandosii! Yeah Arkanian Micro and those Spaarti cylinders are wild, the troopers from those had such a weak mental stability though, due to the super short incubation period, flash trained while unconscious.
"The kid version of the novel is much more sadistic." Hey kids, skip to the part where Anakin slaughters Younglings X3 Nostalgia Critic: You know, for kids . . . XD
More like everyone else was so stupid that they couldnt figure out the hooded guy was the sith lord and trusted the strange hooded man even as they were killed.
33:07 I actually like the idea of the 150 orders, and I think it still fits into canon. If palpatine ordered any one of the 150 orders the clones would mindlessly obey them like they did with 66
@@sulwhale3171George has always been involved in anything Clone Wars. He's the one who started the Clone Wars Multi-Media Project then helped again with TCW
Personally, to make both work, the chip activates on any of the 150 orders being given, but order 66 can activate extra hard if there’s a certain change in the mental state of the clones. All the clones that maintained a more regimented mindset such as they received as they were trained (which training did include preparation for order 66, they definitely knew that it was coming) then for those clones it would be a less severe form of activation of the chip
@@michaelyoung7261 Except none of that is indicated in the films and you just made it up. Not to mention the existence of the chips makes the events of the OT impossible.
@@Anzyn Not when you're stating it like it is a fact. Would be better if he phrased it like ‘I think..’ or ‘I would have liked it if…’. Something that sounds less like you actually think it’s true.
I watched episode 3 in theaters for my birthday and from what I remember, the fact that the Jedi Order and Anakin was about to fall wasn’t a secret just from extra media but in my showing most people had seen the OG myself included. What we didn’t know was how the actual Order 66 was what we or I didn’t know but I knew SOMETHING was about to happen since again episode 4 but yeah
idk why people are so pissed about the genetic chips, I thought that was the more deep dive explanation for the line "they are bred to follow any order" it was never said "trained to follow any order" they specifically said bred, genetically tailored to be totally loyal only reason people got this idea was because battlefront 2's campaign was so beloved by a whole generation. It's very good but honestly the clone wars writing just makes more sense and better written then a random one off game also explains why clones weren't around anymore in the empire Also doesn't make sense if the clones knew they were gonna betray the Jedi and harbored this hatred and indoctrination the Jedi would have sensed that, it's apart their basic abilities to sense those things even in their weakened stripped down state they were in as an order
If they arecbred to be obedient, hiding the cancer chip won't be necessary. Plus, it was a easy plot clutch for writers to just make clones evil instead of the complex of the clones being indoctrinate to follow orders while clones being of Jango Fett who hate jedi.
The Jedi Council sat in the same room as the dark lord of the Sith for over a decade without noticing...and you think they were going to just notice the big betrayal plan...by said Sith...while fighting spread out across the galaxy. Yeah, no. There's a reason only Yoda reacted in time.
In my head I personally combine the two metas. I like to think the 151 orders did exist and were public knowledge, but the chips were insurance specifically for order 66. I do think the chips allow each clone to be more humanized and individual.
This is such a good video. I love the Legends' version of the prequels because of the difference between the characters are jarring when you see it yourself. The whole consideration of loyalty that Clones had was really cold and sad that they had feelings and thoughts on their inevitable betrayal.
I always thought (but could easily be wrong) that originally the clones didn't know they were soon *going* to turn on the jedi, but rather there were a hundred or so "orders" for every possible scenario, of which this was just the 66th one.
As a kid, I got the junior novel of Revenge Of The Sith from a garage sale and I distinctly remember the order 66 part f*king me up cause of just how sadistic it was (I was 7ish at the time). How did they think that novel was suitable for children
I like the concept of the chips, not only because it makes a more tragic story about forcing the noble soldiers to betray not only their commanders they come to respect but also their friends. But also i think is more beliable this way, if they were just an army instructed to betray the Jedi on their own will, I can't imagine the info not getting leaked one way or another. Some soldiers could simply desert, have a change of conscience and confess, be mind forced to confess, etc. There would have been too many factors to leave up in the air in Palpatine's plan.
@@silverbreaker9271 Then why didn't they all just defect or go awol if they were that independent? Why willingly be slaves to the Republic when you could turn around and easily take it over for yourselves?
An important detail about the RC books is that the main characters, both ARCs and Commandos, were trained by mandalorian instructors who didn’t like the Jedi in the first place. Most ARCs and Commandos were encouraged to pursue their individuality while still being part of a unit. It makes sense why they’d have mixed reactions to Order 66 while most generic clones followed the order without question.
Tbh i prefer the introduction of the chips The clones have vastly become vastly unique and independent of one another and idc what legends said but 3-4 years is absolutely more than enough time to form a strong bond with someone Especially when fighting because they save your life and would die for you countless times Regardless of how much brainwashing there is, nothing would change that because even tho they’re clones they’re human Also consider the fact that majority of the clones are 10-14 years old throughout the clone war due to the accelerated aging meaning their maturity mentally might be less than that of a properly aging adult and thus might attach easier It also makes the clones victims, they were never really the bad guys they were simply forced to kill the jedi because of palpatine and it makes them that much more tragic and regretful for storytelling and i think there’s no greater example if that than the conflict between Rex and Ahsoka at the end of season 7 The regret of turning on not just Ahsoka but his own brothers is enough to break a mentally strong character like Rex down to tears Its enough to, in another example, see the glimpse of regret in Cody when Crosshair talks about the jedi before the chip somewhat takes control and he replies “well.. Good soldiers follow orders” Rex and Cody specifically were probably the two clones that were the most attached to their jedi generals and it makes it even more tragic what they were forced to go through They were always trying to be heroes in a rigged war
I like the idea of more indepndent clones choosing to disobey order 66 (or just question a bit in general like Cut or Slick) but at the same time the friendship that is formed in the CW makes it feel like most clones would disobey if there wasn't something overriding their loyalty... its sad to see their autonomy stripped away, but it feels like both can't exist at the same time...
@@Marrianne415 The only difference is that the chips introduce a technology that would fundamentally change the Star Wars galaxy and make the OT as we know it impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet And the clones and droids in the original prequel canon don't? Like you're telling me that you could have an army of millions of mass produced soldiers, bred for combat effectiveness and loyalty, and Sidious doesn't fucking use them after the clone wars? Same garbage with the battle droids. Even the standard b1's being shown to be decently effective fighters throughout the prequels, yet they entirely disappeared. Droideka's had portable energy shields while also having the power to still use have heavy fire power. Yet despite having the shield technology capable of shielding the entire second death star, they never think to use those shields for in ground combat. I could go on, because so much of the empire's military, with the a few exceptions, is a strict downgrade from the republic and separatists. It was like that when the prequels released, and in a lot of ways it still is. The prequels committed the original sin by introducing all this technology that was far more advanced than the OT. This franchise has pretty much always had this issue of continually retconning itself in this way. At this point, you need to just roll with it.
@@angrypepe7615 don’t forget the fact that the at-te got scrapped, the arc-170 was replaced with a flimsy fighter with no shields, and capital ships evolved backwards from the venator(which was essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an aircraft carrier) to the ISD, which has a far smaller hangar and is designed for capital ship-capital ship combat, and is so ridiculously vulnerable to starfighter bombing runs (looking at the 2 golf balls shield generators sticking out the top of the bridge )
I'm torn between the two variations of 66. BF2. On one hand, through the 501st journals, you hear that the clone looks back on the events leading up to Order 66 and his inner dialogue from those evens (even tho he shouldn't have been to every planet in that campaign). You hear in some cases, he saw the jedi as arrogant since they didn't wear armor and stuff, and when talking about Secura, he sounded somewhat remorseful for following through with the order. On the other hand, the CW show gave us clones with so much humanity, that they needed a way that would *force* them to follow through the order without them looking like they did a 180° to follow order 66.
"I hesitated for a moment when I received Order 66 because the last thing I expected was a Jedi coup. Did I feel betrayed? You bet I did. I thought of all my men who died under Ki-Adi-Mundi's command, and if I'd known then that he and his buddies were gearing up to do the Separatists' work for them and overthrow the government, I'd have shot him as a traitor a lot earlier. He betrayed the trust of every one of us." - Commander Bacara In the og george lucas canon the clones were seen as simple instruments by most if not all jedi, which naturally made the clones secretly despise them. This is why so many did not even hesitate to shoot. The only case where compassion is shown is in Ayla Secura's death, as she was said to be one of the few jedi who cared for her troopers. As such, commander Bly and his men gunned her down in an instant so that she does not feel any pain. ''It is a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us would dare to look her in the eye''.
In episode 2 the kaminoians say that they changed the clones genetics to make them follow any order without question, there was never any need to change anything because they're not normal people. That's the whole tragedy, because they follow any order without question, when they got order 66 they thought it was the right thing because their brains had been changed to be literally unable to question orders. In the original canon I guess they werent forced to do it so much as they just didn't question if it was right or wrong. The whole inhibitor chip thing is so stupid and takes away a lot of the tragedy to me, as well as the decisions to turn all of our favourite clone characters against the empire eventually - it feels like the writers are just so unable to make their characters be the bad guys.
@@Lobsterwithinternet You're right. I don't dislike Filoni as much as lots of people do but he loves a happy ending too much, always tries to soften any blow.
The Inhibitor Chips were such a stupid concept and Dave Filoni is such a hack writer. Order 66 went -so- much harder when the clones carried out Order 66 on their own full volition. in the old EU, the Jedi were just such awful generals that got so many clones killed that by the time of Order 66 the surviving clones were frothing at the mouth to kill some Jedi in the same way soldiers would mutiny against corrupt officers.
Honestly, I call bullshit on "The Jedi being terrible" was the reason for the justification of Order 66. Like, Palpatine was INSANELY corrupt. Literally, why would any Clone side with him? And barely any Jedi were explicitly said to be terrible leaders. For example: Aayla Secura. I don’t remember any clone or material talking about the Jedi being terrible leaders.
@@TheKiltedGerman Do you really think that if the choice was between 1943 Hitler and someone like Lincoln, that Hitler would still be as popular? No, ofcourse not.
@@BarneyisJehova You clearly haven't read anywhere enough history. Also, Lincoln wasn't on the ballot. Also, the clones had zero participation in politics.
A lot of commenters leaving me convinced that Lucas' story made primarily for children is still somehow too complicated to understand by grown adults. You CANNOT compare the clones to real life soldiers. Rea life soldiers are not genetically engineered from the embryo to be more docile and obedient, plus indoctrinated their entire lives. Any comparison suggests they are similar, which opens a whole lot of ideological baggage I'm sure no one wants to deal with in a pop-culture RUclips comments section.
Order Sixty six is one of the saddest moments in Star Wars. A whole culture that had been surviving for thousands of years wiped out in 1 day (the newest movies aren’t canon) so many died and that was the moment that would cause pain and suffering not just then but for decades afterwords
Good soldiers follow orders! But also at some point the average clone had less individuality, and were breed to be trusting in authority. Personally I prefer no chip, but I get why clone wars clones needed something more
I like the EU/old version better, the chip thing was completely unneeded. The Order 66 thing was clearly based on history(realize that Lucas drew a lot from both history and mythology and other things for SW), an example when Constantius the 2nd decided to purge the Roman Imperial Family, which many were within the Roman military and so....those who supported Constantius...killed them. Or one could look at it as the purge of the Knights Templar, where their Order was pretty much wiped out by King Philip. So on and so forth. The chip thing...was completely unnecessary.
I don’t think it was about, but Palpatine isn’t stupid. He known that certain clones would end up with better Jedis than others. Honestly, I don’t believe any clone’s loyalty would side with Sidious over a Jedi like Aayla Secura for example. Like, sure, some would probably side with him, but is it really that believable that Sidious wouldn’t put in a failsafe to make sure EVERY Jedi actually die?
@BarneyisJehova Attack of the Clones literally set up Order 66 by having the leader of Kaminoans say that "The clones have been genetically modified to be more obedient". Clone commanders, Arc Troopers, and Clone Commandos were not as heavily modified for obedience as standard Clone Troopers giving them more independence and free will.
@@26th_Primarch What clone is stupid enough to side with the corrupt politician that started a proxy war to make his brothers and friends die in mass, over the Jedi, who constantly fought with them?
@@BarneyisJehova by how Star Wars canon is actually tiered Filoni's Clone Wars literally aren't canon because the inhibitor chips actually violate the canon established in the prequel films.
"We're killing children" "The way I see it, the Brothers we lost on Geonosis weren't even 10 years old. By my count, the Jedi are still higher up there than us"
Like come on, that's an easy answer Order 66 was changed to mind control so we could still have sympathetic independant clones & so the Jedi had an explanation for never seeing it coming whenever Palpatine was not present.
I think also canonically the clones were supposed to be the same as stormtroopers but that was changed at some point and may also have been a result of the clone wars humanizing the clones. It also wouldn't have made sense with the accelerated aging but i think it would have been cool if canonically the stormtroopers used to fought alongside the Jedi as clones but what can you do. I honestly prefer the clones being cold hearted soldiers who don't really care about the Jedi that much, as the idea of the clones knowing in advance they were gonna betray the Jedi and not saying anything about it is more badass in my opinion.
As for how the clones were able to take out the Jedi so easily, it helped greatly that the genetic template for the clones was a Mandalorian. Warriors who specialized in fighting Jedi.
This is another case of the intresting and good ideas of the prequels that were sometimes not so well executed being executed better (or fixed) in other SW media
38:01 that's why I like the one fan film that shows the inhibitor chip changes their memories to anti jedi memories. Like instead of the Jedi saving a clone, the Jedi picks up the clone and uses him as a shield
@ Why? Sidious controlled both sides. He could have just held back and allow both sides to win and lose at his leisure without losing the war. Plus an inhibiter chip that can control your mind can give you the skills of the best warriors in the galaxy. Like Jango Fett?
Here was my problem with clones in the prequels, they were just so much like droids, and they had almost no screentime to prove otherwise. Compare Obi-wan talking to Cody and Cody asking him to leave some droids for him to; when a droid gives grievous obi-wans and qui-gons lightsabers, saying "Your welcome" when grievous snatches them from the droid
They would sell the stuff a month early because they knew that 95% of the fans who would go see it would likely never come into contact with said materials. The general SW fan base back in the late 90s and early 2000s still was largely focused around the movies and didn’t pay attention to the books and other material because it was considered really nerdy and you’d probably be made fun of for merely possessing things like that. Sure, I was in elementary and early middle school when the prequel trilogy came out, so perhaps my perspective is largely skewed around late childhood/early adolescence social dynamics, but what I described was how it seemed to be back then. I know because I loved the SW & LOTR universes, I loved the stories that were at the heart of the films, I played the video games, played with the Legos, got my face painted as Darth Maul the year when Episode I came out, and although it was acceptable because we were so young, once middle school hit then it became seen as really nerdy and childish. The casual SW viewer may have enjoyed the spectacle of the films, may have participated a little in the festivities that included SW themes when it was in the popular zeitgeist, but once that wore off it went back to being seen as dorky. Sorry for the long response. TL;DR The producers knew the vast majority of casual viewers (who were the ones that made up the majority of seats in the cinemas) would never be exposed to the spoilers. Most adults with kids weren’t even using the Internet all that much, they were too busy working, socializing, taking their kids to after school activities, and it wouldn’t be until Episode III that MySpace would become widely popular among middle and high schoolers - the only adults who were seen frequently online were 1) creeps 2) musicians 3) celebrities 4) gamers/content creators and 5) adult nerds ~~ and a lot of those types overlapped with each other. It was nothing like how our post-2005 or post-2008/2009 society would turn out to be, when your average *normal* adult began to really use the Internet, probably because this is when older Millennials normalized its usage and especially when Facebook took over the social media sphere.
I thought the inhibitor chips make perfect sense: Order 66 only worked because the Jedi were taken by complete suprise, and had the clones been simply ordered to do it, the Jedi would have sensed their hostile intent.
Not necessarily. That would only hold up if the clones had any malice behind the order. However as things like the ROTS novel pointed out, they didn't. So the Jedi had little they could detect at that point.
Don't forget that when Aayla Secura was being executed by her clones, she chose to raise her hands in surrender, rather than ignite her lightsabers and fight back. She cared about the clones under her command so much, she just allowed them to kill her once she sensed what they were going to do.
@@toska3528 That is slightly inaccurate to how the events happened, her movements and facial expressions indicate she didn’t have a shade of doubt in her troops as they gunned her down believing they had seen an enemy she had not detected yet. I'm free to admit I’m wrong though if you’re quoting the novelisation, for I have yet to read it myself.
@Regibump37 it was something pointed out in another video from another RUclipsr that I watched a little while ago. I don't remember which video it was, but essentially, if you look at her face, she looks at her clones over her shoulder, and you can see for a fraction of a second, she realizes what's going down, and goes to raise her hands -- presumably to surrender and to drop her sabers -- it was clear she could, "sense," what was gonna happen much like Yoda did. But, she chose to not engage. If she thought the clones were about to fight a threat, she likely wouldn't have raised her arms, she likely would have assumed her battle stance and kept her sabers at waist height.
8:25 The same way that in Canon that no Jedi found out that the Geonosians were enslaved after the 2nd Battle of Geonosis and forced to build the Death Star. Jedi being dumb for plot convenience (this is usually justified by some lore explanation about their force senses being clouded) is a very important part of the PT.
It's more about all of the things Filoni introduced in TCW and as creative head of Lucasfilm along with the inhibiter chips that literally destroy the Original Trilogy if they had existed. Like Tracking Fobs, Chain Codes, Inhibiter Chips, the Disguise Matrix, the ability to track holotransmissions along with the ability to uncover hoods in those transmissions, tech that allows them to physically change their voice, face, etc. All of which would make the OT we know impossible.
The original order 66 being that every clone follows the order willingly is always going to be my favorite as them needing a mund control chip makes the "obedient army" thing entirely pointless
It really doesn’t, it basically just makes them physically incapable of disobeying extreme orders when legends had way more examples of clones disobeying order 66
The Clones are Mandalorians in a way so of course they would kill the Jedi regardless because what did the Jedi do to the Mandalorians? I'm pretty sure there was a Jango Fett Comic that explained it.
I honestly love the introduction of the chips, if the clones were just people who didn't care about shooting jedi, even those who cared for them deeply, then I wouldn't really like clones, introducing chips is why clones like Cody are still liked, who shot Obi-Wan without hesitation, even Captain Rex is my second favoutite character behind Ahsoka, if it turned out he plotted this betrayal all along, I would hate him, having the chips makes clones more likeable, that they did actually care for the jedi.
the OG order 66 is a contingency against the Jedi who CAN overthrow the Republic. The Jedi being capable of this is common knowledge by everyone in lore and why Palpatine himself doesn't respect the Jedi because they refuse to try it.
I don't like the chips because I don't think the chips were needed to explain the clones turning at all. They could have known about Order 66 like any other order or law, and were prepared to do it to uphold the peace in their minds. Like any cop or soldier who has to do dirty for the ill defined "greater good". I want to reiterate that last point because I think its important: I do think a lot of clones would shoot their Jedi leaders if they were told they had to. We don't even have to touch on the way the clones were treated or if they were slaves or not because that doesn't matter; I think normal soldiers would do the same. Of course, a lot of clones would allow their leaders to escape, but that would make for an interesting story and apparently a lot of Jedi escaped anyway.
I preferred no inhibitor chip. Battlefront 2 really sold me on the moral dilemma. They knew what they had to do and they did it even though they didn't want to. Because Good Soldiers follow orders. You could really feel the pain and the regret in the journal entries. The Clone Wars did what it had to do to keep their favorite characters from being bad. The Clone Wars was a kids show. I don't think it could have handled the darker story of "Following Orders." Maybe it's a bit too real, with the way that same reasoning is used in our world on a daily basis to brutalize people the world over.
Brain cancer chip is unnecessary. The clones were bred to obey orders without question. Aka they were generically engineers which was told to Obi-Wan. Needing to hide these cancer chips would be unnecessary as the cloners can easily explain it part of the clone conditioning. It that old saying, the best place hide something is in plain sight. The only reason tcw jedi didn't investigate further is because of dave poor writing. TCW show is just keep aging wrose over time since it keep contradicting lore from the movies
Not to mention all the other tech TCW and Bad Batch introduced that would make the OT impossible like Chain Codes and tech that allows you to track holocommunications.
28:11 I don't think it did. All it suggests is that some clones knew that it was happening while others didn't. I am also surprised you didn't mention that the majority of clones who had moral issues, like the one who married the Jedi, were either ARC troopers or clone commandos, who were bred and raised differently from the rest of the clones. 28:16 The clones weren't betrayed by Palpatine. The only people who were betrayed by Palpatine on the side of the Republic were the Jedi, some militia forces and some Republic loyalists.
Honestly the chips make a lot more sense than just saying they were brainwashed. Makes complete sense for the Kaminoan’s to implement something to force the clones to obey extreme orders
@ the whole point is that it was meant to be secret so it doesn’t mess with any lore, it should exist plus adds more to the clones being tragic characters which they should be portrayed as
Travis as a writer has become a little controversial over the years, while her Republic commano series was fairly well down her other actions in the star wars community and that of Halo and Gears of war have made some recontextualization her previous works. Its a whole thing but at least for most of her Republic commando stories this shouldn't apply. At least i hope.
9:48 I disagree that it is about feeling emotions. Obviously clones can feel emotions. I think it is actually quite ridiculous to expect the clones to act with the exact same value system as not just humans but Western humans. Why would they given their origins? It isn't just about basic emotions, it is about societal norms. Why would all clones know that they should be gentle with children? The Waxer and Boil story was actually pretty good, but TCW didn't just humanise clones, it made them nigh impossible to distinguish from non-clone heroes in terms in their values.
Honestly the chips only make sense for those like Plo or Obi Wan, but their had been jedi who are more like Krell or just terrible commanders in general that clones would execute without any problem at all if ordered. But all you still have a few clones who did actually disobey the order. I kinda don't mind when there wasn't any chip, for like the 501st, when they marched to the temple, they have no attachment to any Jedi besides Anakin, and maybe few others like Obi Wan. But for most part they don't mind killing
5:26 I don't think it indicates a lack of connection at all. TCW has done a really good job of making people forget *who* the clones were raised by and *how* they were raised. The clones were raised by *Kaminoans.* How emotional and gentle do Kaminoans seem to be? They seem civil and orderly yes, but they are never suggested to be morally good, and in the EU, they have a very strict society that values order and rules and are also pretty racist.
I can buy how the singled out jedi died, since their troops suddenly turn on them and outnumber them. What I’ll never understand is how a single legion of clones was able to take the Jedi temple. There must’ve been hundreds of Jedi in there if not thousands, and the clones didn’t REALLY have the element of surprise either
@@Cmmdre977 Gotta remember most jedi were not even close to as powerful or skilled as Obi-Wan or any of the Jedi on the Council. This has given a skewed view of how powerful the Jedi of the era were. Most of them were at the level of Padiwan at best and most of the ones left at the Jedi Tempke were even less so, most of them being scholars, workers and children.
I definitly think in a vaccum (Going off of the movies alone) the chips are unnessecary and stupid; But the problem is that what the clone wars series did with the clones is WAY better and neccisates the chips for plot reasons I always think of them as a Neccesary evil especially since they did more with the chips beyond "This is why the clones became evil" We had stories of chips firing early, Chips not firing when they should have but possibly firing late, ETC
@@shadowrobot7708 Then why use clones at all? Why not just use droids if he wanted to not take chances? Contrary to what most people say, Pslpatine isn't as smart as they portray him and takes many more risks as well.
@@LobsterwithinternetBecause the separatists were using droids. It would make it easier to turn public sentiment against the droids (like they did with Aliens). Also using clones provides a nice transition into using Storm troopers.
@@Lobsterwithinternet The clone troopers were designed to fight a galactic war. It is much harder to convince the population to go fight a war than use clones to do it. Stormtroopers were designed to keep the peace and squash out Rebel groups. They were not intended to fight a major war however things did not work out the way Palpatine planned them to.
@@topace1038 Then what’s stopping them from turning around and performing a coup on his government, joining the Seperatists, or just deserting in mass?
35:06 You absolutely don't. Anyone who knows anything about history can tell you that people didn't need magic mind control chips to force them to commit war atrocities. Even if the clones were more emotional and independent than the EU portrayed them, they still would have followed their orders. The issue that after the first few seasons, *TCW doesn't just humanise the clones, it just makes them more moral people overall.* Of course, this doesn't actually work with the depictions of their actions like on Umbara where they execute people, but the show takes the stance that they can do no wrong, which has translated into TBB's moral quagmire where the clones, *soldiers who were bred and indoctrinated for their entire childhood to fight and die for their country without question, are somehow more moral than regular people (TK troopers) who cannot have received more than a few months training* because of the show's timeline.
Ur half correct there was a anceint sith temple under jedi temple sheev was using that to cloud jedis minds with dark side dooku mentions this to obi when he gets captured on geonosis
The idea that the clones had inhibitor chips was always there George always wanted the clones and Jedi to have close ties which can seen in the scenes with Cody in ep 3 and in the 2D clone wars show which was released in between ep 2 and 3 and the 3D clone wars show was able to expand on the Jedi and clone relationship and the inhibitor chips since most of the major storylines were George’s ideas and he worked with the show’s team to fully develop the scripts and storyboards. George was very involved in the clone wars shows he was consulted on all storylines and changed things that didn’t line up with his vision and came up with many storylines for the shows.
"The inhibitor chips came straight from George Lucas himself." *Press X to doubt* Lucus basically didn't give a dam what Filoni did with Star Wars as long as it didn't completely ruin the continuity of his films. He tired of Plinket stans berating him about the Prequels and just wanted move on to different things.
Not true. George was involved in the first couple seasons and became less involved as he was focusing on other projects like Star Wars Underground and The Force Unleashed.
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Thanks for watching :) if you enjoyed send it to you friends and lmk which version of Order 66 you like better! If this video does well I'll start working on another fun long one. Do you guys want jawas, zillo beast, or more clones?
Why aren't you checking out the joes versus cobra fight around Lady Liberty? Bit parts!
Zillo, Jaws or more clones all sound like great long videos, I'd watch any of those.
Along with the changes made to order 66 it's also interesting just how much the concept of the Cline Wars changed in the old canon between Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith
Disney bought all of Star Wars in 2006. George Lucas had no connection to Star Wars at all by 2008 when the purchase was fully completed and Disney ended up having to kick George Lucas off the property of Disney when George Lucas went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney Film industries pissed off claiming he was not paid for the purchase of Star Wars. George Lucas bought a bunch of crap and that stuff broke because he crashed them or he did stupid shit with them. Disney paid George Lucas $8.7 billion and George Lucas lost 100% of the money in less than 2 years. Yes that is correct. Also George Lucas has lost everything he owned and is living in the spare bedroom of his niece who is the only family member who is willing to take care of him because he has pissed off every other family member he has. He is blatantly an elderly bum living off his niece who literally takes care of him. George Lucas did in fact lose about $50 million which he for some unknown stupid reason put $50 million on pre paid gift cards and he lost them because he ripped his cloths off somewhere and wen streaking down San Francisco butt ass naked screaming about Disney sent the white rabbit mafia with their taco mounts are trying to take over the world. George Lucas was fucked up on some kind of drug and his $50 million he put on gift cards which turned out he stappled to his closes were never found. He literally bought a stapler and stapled the cards to his cloths at the Target he bought the gift cards. The Target employees just thought hell he just got money and was doing stupid shit with it for fun but turns out that was the last money out of his $8.7 billon. He spent every dime in less than a couple of months then got taken back to his home after he was a complete lunatic. Then creditors started calling and he didn't have any money left and he kind of accidentally burn the mansions he bought to the ground along with crashing his super yachts and he crashed all the cars and even some how destroyed his new helicopter by hitting the helicopter with one of his new cars. His main mansion got repossessed because he owed way too much in taxes and stuff. George Lucas then went on a psychotic rampage threw Disney film studios claiming Disney never paid him and just stole Star Wars from him and Disney ha enough and they banned him for life and had him escorted off the property in cuffs. His niece bailed him out and took him home with her and George Lucas has not stopped his blatant lying about Disney because he is a crazy old man who literally is pissed off because he went broke because of his own stupidity and yet can't except responsibility. Mark Hammel has also been banned for life because Mark Hammel has pulled similar shit after getting drunk off his ass and then picking fights in which he went into the Marvel filming studio and tried telling Robert Downy Jr how to act and punching Robert before Robert knocked out several teeth of Mark and Mark got escorted out in cuffs as well. Mark gets really stupid when he drinks which he is always drunk. Its actually why the last movie didn't even have Mark Hammel in it at all it was CGI and half way threw the second to last movie Mark became CGI as well an no one really notices.
Canon because it is more sadder
I love the Karen Traviss books, and she's a nice person too, talked with her once about book six
The Plo Koon scene is probably one of the best things to show when you talk about why the chips were needed. No matter how disciplined your troops are, you could never convince them to turn on someone who truly fought, bled and cared for you.
Real life history tells us this is not the case
@@SkywalkerFoe yep
yep history show but really these clone spent decade being doctrine and brainwash to follow order and the republic, them only spending example like plo koon for like 4 year is not enough to betray the republic.
The Romans had something very similar to Order 66 that did in fact take place.
This isnt even Wolfpack clones who fought along Koon on Cato Neimodia
You give people far too much credit. Not to go all rule 34, but in Germany, people literally ratted their neighbors out for no other reason than because the party told them that they were the problem, in complete contravention to reality and their personal experience.
Now, take soldiers who are mentally conditioned to follow orders, had even less inhibitions against rounding up and interning the ' undesirables '.
This is why it is very believable that humans raised from birth to follow orders would, against all evidence of their own experiences, would gun down the Jedi.
Im just going to say it. Palpatine calling every clone commander individually is pretty dumb.
It would take him 10,000 calls and days to get it done.
Pretty sure the only commander he addresses by name in the movie is Cody. Probably did him first specifically to get rid of Obi Wan. Gotta be dramatic for the first transmission leading into the new galactic order. Seemed the rest of the commanders got the same generic message.
It's implied in the movie that it had to take place at the exact same time for it to work. We see that it came later for Yoda, and he already knew what was coming because he sensed Jedi all across the galaxy dying.
@@battlesheep2552It was even explained in The Bad Batch that if the clones didn’t receive the initial transmission from Palpatine, they would be sent a text message telling them to execute Order 66.
@@battlesheep2552 Thank you for that. I was going to comment that the order was distributed at the same time, but you beat me to it.
It was distributed at the same time, the order was.
The biggest reason why the chips had to be introduced is that Filoni made the clones too loyal. We needed more generals like Krell. We needed clones to resent Jedi for being so gung-ho, or being poor generals. It would have made it more complex, to have the clones constantly mulling over what they must do, and have dissent grow
I dont think they just made the clones to loyal. They straight up made them to nice. They follow morals that are objectively good, unlike their Legends portrayal, even though they are breed as soldiers, not as peace keepers.
The only time a clone from the TV Show did something that comes closer to their Legends portrayal, is in the Umbara-Arc, there one clone executes an Umbaran without remorse. When I watched the episode as a kid, I thought the show was setting up the clones darker side
The chips are the retcon to explain the retcon that is everything that show does with clones
Yeah, I call bullshit. Even in Legends, the Jedi were explained to be respected by the clones.
For example: Aayla Secura. Even the 501st logs said she was respected among her own clones. So no, I honestly don’t believe a sane human, or clone would follow through with this order.
@BarneyisJehova Well, Ki-Adi-Mundi was one of those Jedi which was resented by the Galactic Marines. In legends they really took satisfaction in killing him because of how poor a general he was. I think we needed to see more of that, or at least get some sense of reasoning, because that makes better drama. It almost feels too impersonal when it's just a mind control chip, rather than following through on real character driven feelings
@@quartztemplar3676 Sure, Ki was kind of a terrible General. But that’s the exception, not the norm. And we have to remember, Palpatine is insanely corrupt. If we make the Clones able to think, then I highly doubt they’d side with Sidious, especially when considering the Clones have to know that Sidious is leading the CIS. So why would they side with the guy who’s sending them to a proxy war?
The big problem is that the clones were not originally intended to be characters. They were just faceless tools to keep the plot moving. Which, yeah, has a lot of weird and interesting meta implications.
I personally strongly dislike The Chips, mainly because I hate the "Evil Switch" as a writing crutch (it's extremely cheap and lazy), but also because they have such an overpowered effect that it makes no sense that they're _only_ used on the clones. Palpatine should be using these _everywhere._ In the end, it's just a way out from the multi-way collision of several authors all separately writing towards the same point. I can't really begrudge them that, but it does feel bad they didn't get the chance to come up with a more coherent answer.
"If droids could think, there would be none of us here would there?"
Obi Wan just happens to stumble on a clone army 10 mins later. Lucas couldn't have been much more explicit about the role the clones were supposed to play.
how would you have done it?
@@pumpmyanxiety4447Can't speak for the other guy but the EU already had this handled. Everyone in the GAR, including the Jedi knew about Order 66 but never believed it would be used because the Jedi would never betray the Republic. The Clones were all pre-programed with loyalty to the Republic with levels of free will being dictated by rank and unit. So while say Scorch for example could refuse to execute the order, your average Clone would not because of their loyalty. This way the Clones still obey but it's not just an "evil switch" as OP called them
@@connorharnage6697Granted, those clones were specially bred clones like Nulls or Clone Commandos while the rank-and-file clones were much more like droids in thinking.
My favorite example is from the book _Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader_ where a group of clone commandos assigned with a jedi refused to follow Order 66, thinking it was a Separatist trick, while the regular clones followed it blindly to the point they were willing to use human wave tactics against the commandos to get at the Jedi.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Yup sounds about right. If I remember correctly, there was a high defection rate in the Clone Commandos after Order 66
I always felt like Legends version was way more heartbreaking and cold compared to canon version because it just showed how brainwashed and disciplined as well as loyal to the “Republic” the clones really were
idk isn't it more tragic to be mind controlled into killing your friends
@@misteranthropy7082I think it depends on how you see it. Personally I think its way more tragic to be betrayed by a friend, instead of a friend that was mind controlled. The latter didnt really betray you and he might not even be aware of his actions.
What I like about legends, is that some of the clones have to deal with the choice they made. They werent mind controlled. Brainwashed, yes but they did have somewhat of a choice to disobey what they have been thaught. And a few clones did disobey.
I think thats way more compelling.
@@misteranthropy7082 statistically less clones were friends with Jedi, they were switching generals a lot, and not much of them did well as general either, resulting in big losses
@@mareklonestar7053 - Perhaps, from a certain point of view. Personally, I find it far more compelling to address the humanity of the clones in contrast to how the Kaminoans, and much of the Republic, treat them. The chip is not only perfectly plausible for an operation as advanced as Kamino’s, but demonstrates their utter lack of impunity toward the living beings they breed and sell. The Clone Wars and The Bad Batch, the former of which can be counted as part of Legends to a certain degree, pose questions of clones’ rights and citizenship postwar, as well as their quality of life given their rapid growth and shortened lifespan. These are important questions worthy of consideration within the Star Wars universe and its fan base.
The best part is that not all clones have to concern themselves with these questions. I have no problem imagining Alpha and Fives existing in the same plot line, with the former totally at peace with his purpose as a soldier and the latter going rogue to prove that he and his brothers are more than hardware. They are not mutually exclusive.
@@mareklonestar7053Almost all jedi thought that they were betrayed, only one jedi found out about the chips-Ahsoka
16:00 I Will say the Battle Front 2 game (amazing game btw) is more of a reflection, so its a stormtrooper looking back on his journal, thus why each mission begins as journal #. So that may clean up some of the confusion about clones "Knowing" about Order 66.
Personally I think a mixture of both should have applied.
The thing is, would Palpatine really have left the clones, the weapon he would use to wipe out the Jedi, to make the final decision on their own? Yeah they're genetically bred to be more obedient, but I don't think Palpatine would be the type of person to have his all encompassing plan to leave a gap, however small, to have a failure if the clones just mostly refuse the order, especially for units like the 501st and Wolfpack, both of whom adore their Jedi commanders.
The whole mind control thing however is a bit lazy, but it opens up a whole new angle to the clones that I feel almost everybody talking about Order 66 misses: the chips reframe the clones because they are now also victims in the whole ordeal. They never wanted to kill their masters but were forced to. I think that makes Order 66 hit harder and is the primary reason why the canon Order 66 is also accepted heavily. There's also the fact that the alternative raises tons of questions, such as to why Cody, after being such close friends would so unflinchingly blast Obi Wan off the cliff.
Personally I think the whole chips vs orders debate really boils down to what you want Order 66 and the clones to be. If you want it to be even more horrifying, with the clones as essentially living droids or super soldiers, the Orders explanation will appeal to you. But if you want Order 66 to be instead the galaxy's greatest tragedy, and the clones to be happy puppets on a string, unaware that the puppetmasters want them to dance, the chips are probably your headcanon.
@@arandomcommenter0135 Except the chips introduce a technology that (like most of Filoni’s slop) completely derails the OT and makes the events of the films impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternethow exactly? The chips could only really work when used with the clones. As I’m certain more people would’ve noticed the government throwing thousands upon thousands of people into brain surgery. Not even the greatest tactical mind can cover that up forever
Although not completely flushed out in the movies, George did want the clones and Jedi to form bonds. It’s clear through obi-wan scenes with one of the only named clones who was given dialogue at the time Commander Cody. And with scenes like the opening space battle where Anakin wanted to break off in order to help his clone wingmen once he saw they were getting shot down by droid interceptors. The movie hinted at it but never flushed it out.
In The Clone Wars, George (not Dave btw, it was George’s story) was finally able to expand on the clones and Jedi’s bond they formed together during the war. So then the chips were a way to solidify Sidius’ control over his grand plan, since now that George was focusing on elaborating the relationship between Jedi and clones, it wouldn’t make sense that every single clone would respond to order 66 now that each and every clone has a unique relationship with their Jedi generals, some stronger than others. There needed to be a full proof way for Sidius’ plan to go off without any chance of failure. The inhibitor chips is that failsafe.
And it just makes more sense this way. Why would Sidius put his complete trust in clones of a bounty hunter even if they were genetically uttered to be more loyal as an army and as soldiers. They may be clones but they were still people with free thoughts and a free will. The chips are much more of a guarantee that no matter what may take place the clones will execute order 66 no matter what, and put an end to the jedi
I do not get people who think George had little to no influence in TCW. But this was also the thought process I held onto as well, that the Canon version of Order 66 makes way more sense from Palpatine's view. In Legends, many clones did not go through with the order, but in Canon it's only around 4 active soldiers who did not initially carry it out. Also, with the chips there is no way that the Jedi can sense any deception in the Clones, but to be fair, the Jedi were a bit arrogant at this time so I don't think it would have mattered anyways.
@Bubby021 Yea ikr, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But i watched a vid from @Hero_of_Sinnoh who did a good video about that topic called "the most misunderstood fact behind Starwars:The clone wars". He really did it justice.
And yes exactly i agree completely
@Bubby021 Yea, its a myth thats been spread around the internet unfortunately. But I recently watched a video from Hero of Sinnoh called "the most misunderstood fact about starwars the clone wars" and he really did the topic justice.
And yes Exactly i completely agree
@@Bubby021He had influence... Just not more than Filoni who constantly went behind George's back and made massive changes. Also while true the chips make sense from Palpatine's perspective, it makes for a less satisfying story overall, especially when the programming from the EU worked well enough while providing a fun amount of drama
In that case, why would Sideous use Clones at all? Why not use droids or even start using his new chips with prisoners to turn them into a slave army? He could even openly advertise the inhibiter chips as something to reform hardened criminals line the Terran Confederacy in Starcraft 1.
And it also ruins the OT as such a chip would certainly be even more handy on imperial citizens, never mind in the military. So most of the people who defect wouldn't and we would have a repeat of the Clone Wars, only with the Separatists without the massive droid armies and more reliant on people to fight.
Clones were meant to be mirrors to droids in legends, and palpatine tested droids going rouge and having specific orders as a way to test order 66
Not just Legends, Episode 2 makes a lot of shots that mirrors them, showing the moral equivalency of both sides.
The contingency plans and the inhibitor chip don't necessarily need to be exclusive. In the Traviss books, we learn that Palpatine is having Arcana Micro (Kamino's competitor) create clone troopers on Centex IV. They increased the growth acceleration time from 10 yrs to 1 yr. These troopers would be replacements that could have the inhibitor chips put in. The Kamino 1st generation clones could have learned the plans but not have the chips. The chips could have been added after Palpatine & his agents saw how close a relationship the Jedi & clones were creating.
Also, the Jedi were all too willing to accept clones. In the EU, Quinlan Voss and others never liked the clones and treated them as no more than subhuman meat droids. You needed more of that in TCW. Pong Krell, much as I hate him, really showed this well. There had to be other Jedi that treated the troopers as callously as these two.
(On a side note) I urge everyone to read all of Traviss's SW novels. They are very enjoyable, and the characters are so well developed. Also, she created the Mandalorian culture. TCW ruined it. You will learn to speak some Mando'a, ner vods.
Kandosii! Yeah Arkanian Micro and those Spaarti cylinders are wild, the troopers from those had such a weak mental stability though, due to the super short incubation period, flash trained while unconscious.
"The kid version of the novel is much more sadistic." Hey kids, skip to the part where Anakin slaughters Younglings X3
Nostalgia Critic: You know, for kids . . . XD
Palpatine is the most intelligent movie villain. Bro literally fooled an entire galaxy and toppled a government that stood for 25,000 years.
**Empire only lasts 25yrs**
@Jay42207 bro was so intelligent that it took the "plot" to defeat him.
@@Jay42207TBF that's not entirely his fault. If he wasn't going against Skywalker, it would've lasted longer
More like everyone else was so stupid that they couldnt figure out the hooded guy was the sith lord and trusted the strange hooded man even as they were killed.
@@Lobsterwithinternet Nobody ever saw him like that until TCW screwed it up (As TCW is prone to do)
33:07 I actually like the idea of the 150 orders, and I think it still fits into canon. If palpatine ordered any one of the 150 orders the clones would mindlessly obey them like they did with 66
"...19 years..."
Me: suddenly shrinks into a wrinkly old green gremlin, feelin my age iykyk
"PEOPLE KEEP CHANGING ORDER 66!"
*Filoni keeps changing Order 66*
Plenty of explanation of how Order 66 worked in Ep. II with the clones' introduction.
that where you are wrong kiddo...filoni keeps trying to order 66 the entire OG fandom.
@@satakrionkryptomortis I like your attitude.
@@satakrionkryptomortisTrying? I'd dare say he succeeded. Well succeeded as much as the current version of Order 66 has succeeded
Expanded Universe, not filoniverse or disney, is where we find the best answers for what actually happened.
As is tradition.
GEROGE was part of the clone wars to tbf
@@sulwhale3171George has always been involved in anything Clone Wars. He's the one who started the Clone Wars Multi-Media Project then helped again with TCW
@@connorharnage6697 Except in later seasons where he was not involved due to being tied up with Star Wars Underground.
Personally, to make both work, the chip activates on any of the 150 orders being given, but order 66 can activate extra hard if there’s a certain change in the mental state of the clones. All the clones that maintained a more regimented mindset such as they received as they were trained (which training did include preparation for order 66, they definitely knew that it was coming) then for those clones it would be a less severe form of activation of the chip
@@michaelyoung7261 Except none of that is indicated in the films and you just made it up.
Not to mention the existence of the chips makes the events of the OT impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet that’s why he said personally.
@@Anzyn Not when you're stating it like it is a fact.
Would be better if he phrased it like ‘I think..’ or ‘I would have liked it if…’. Something that sounds less like you actually think it’s true.
I watched episode 3 in theaters for my birthday and from what I remember, the fact that the Jedi Order and Anakin was about to fall wasn’t a secret just from extra media but in my showing most people had seen the OG myself included. What we didn’t know was how the actual Order 66 was what we or I didn’t know but I knew SOMETHING was about to happen since again episode 4 but yeah
idk why people are so pissed about the genetic chips, I thought that was the more deep dive explanation for the line "they are bred to follow any order"
it was never said "trained to follow any order" they specifically said bred, genetically tailored to be totally loyal
only reason people got this idea was because battlefront 2's campaign was so beloved by a whole generation. It's very good but honestly the clone wars writing just makes more sense and better written then a random one off game
also explains why clones weren't around anymore in the empire
Also doesn't make sense if the clones knew they were gonna betray the Jedi and harbored this hatred and indoctrination the Jedi would have sensed that, it's apart their basic abilities to sense those things even in their weakened stripped down state they were in as an order
The line is: "They are totally obedient, taking any order without question." There is nothing here that can suggest they have a chip in their skulls.
Look up child soldiers.
A clone is of the same age.
If they arecbred to be obedient, hiding the cancer chip won't be necessary.
Plus, it was a easy plot clutch for writers to just make clones evil instead of the complex of the clones being indoctrinate to follow orders while clones being of Jango Fett who hate jedi.
The Jedi Council sat in the same room as the dark lord of the Sith for over a decade without noticing...and you think they were going to just notice the big betrayal plan...by said Sith...while fighting spread out across the galaxy. Yeah, no. There's a reason only Yoda reacted in time.
@@TheKiltedGermanBecause he was in the Original Trilogy.
In my head I personally combine the two metas. I like to think the 151 orders did exist and were public knowledge, but the chips were insurance specifically for order 66. I do think the chips allow each clone to be more humanized and individual.
0:41 YOUNGLINGS!!!!
if only the newer tv shows and movies cared this much about the lore. and making everything make since.
Well from what I'm aware Alpha ARC's and Republic Commando's still don't have Inhibitor Chips they knew exactly what they were doing during Order 66.
I absolutely love the relationship between the Jedi and the clones. The chips had to be implemented.
This is such a good video. I love the Legends' version of the prequels because of the difference between the characters are jarring when you see it yourself. The whole consideration of loyalty that Clones had was really cold and sad that they had feelings and thoughts on their inevitable betrayal.
I always thought (but could easily be wrong) that originally the clones didn't know they were soon *going* to turn on the jedi, but rather there were a hundred or so "orders" for every possible scenario, of which this was just the 66th one.
Oh, now I understand where I got that idea!
As a kid, I got the junior novel of Revenge Of The Sith from a garage sale and I distinctly remember the order 66 part f*king me up cause of just how sadistic it was (I was 7ish at the time). How did they think that novel was suitable for children
There are two types of kids...
@@Official_Ardo Because kids like that sort of thing.
Gotta remember that there were Jason Vorhees and Robocop action figures for kids.
I like the concept of the chips, not only because it makes a more tragic story about forcing the noble soldiers to betray not only their commanders they come to respect but also their friends.
But also i think is more beliable this way, if they were just an army instructed to betray the Jedi on their own will, I can't imagine the info not getting leaked one way or another.
Some soldiers could simply desert, have a change of conscience and confess, be mind forced to confess, etc. There would have been too many factors to leave up in the air in Palpatine's plan.
@@silverbreaker9271 Then why didn't they all just defect or go awol if they were that independent? Why willingly be slaves to the Republic when you could turn around and easily take it over for yourselves?
An important detail about the RC books is that the main characters, both ARCs and Commandos, were trained by mandalorian instructors who didn’t like the Jedi in the first place. Most ARCs and Commandos were encouraged to pursue their individuality while still being part of a unit. It makes sense why they’d have mixed reactions to Order 66 while most generic clones followed the order without question.
Tbh i prefer the introduction of the chips
The clones have vastly become vastly unique and independent of one another and idc what legends said but 3-4 years is absolutely more than enough time to form a strong bond with someone
Especially when fighting because they save your life and would die for you countless times
Regardless of how much brainwashing there is, nothing would change that because even tho they’re clones they’re human
Also consider the fact that majority of the clones are 10-14 years old throughout the clone war due to the accelerated aging meaning their maturity mentally might be less than that of a properly aging adult and thus might attach easier
It also makes the clones victims, they were never really the bad guys they were simply forced to kill the jedi because of palpatine and it makes them that much more tragic and regretful for storytelling and i think there’s no greater example if that than the conflict between Rex and Ahsoka at the end of season 7
The regret of turning on not just Ahsoka but his own brothers is enough to break a mentally strong character like Rex down to tears
Its enough to, in another example, see the glimpse of regret in Cody when Crosshair talks about the jedi before the chip somewhat takes control and he replies “well.. Good soldiers follow orders”
Rex and Cody specifically were probably the two clones that were the most attached to their jedi generals and it makes it even more tragic what they were forced to go through
They were always trying to be heroes in a rigged war
I like the idea of more indepndent clones choosing to disobey order 66 (or just question a bit in general like Cut or Slick) but at the same time the friendship that is formed in the CW makes it feel like most clones would disobey if there wasn't something overriding their loyalty...
its sad to see their autonomy stripped away, but it feels like both can't exist at the same time...
@@Marrianne415 The only difference is that the chips introduce a technology that would fundamentally change the Star Wars galaxy and make the OT as we know it impossible.
@@Lobsterwithinternet And the clones and droids in the original prequel canon don't?
Like you're telling me that you could have an army of millions of mass produced soldiers, bred for combat effectiveness and loyalty, and Sidious doesn't fucking use them after the clone wars?
Same garbage with the battle droids. Even the standard b1's being shown to be decently effective fighters throughout the prequels, yet they entirely disappeared. Droideka's had portable energy shields while also having the power to still use have heavy fire power. Yet despite having the shield technology capable of shielding the entire second death star, they never think to use those shields for in ground combat.
I could go on, because so much of the empire's military, with the a few exceptions, is a strict downgrade from the republic and separatists. It was like that when the prequels released, and in a lot of ways it still is.
The prequels committed the original sin by introducing all this technology that was far more advanced than the OT. This franchise has pretty much always had this issue of continually retconning itself in this way. At this point, you need to just roll with it.
@@angrypepe7615 don’t forget the fact that the at-te got scrapped, the arc-170 was replaced with a flimsy fighter with no shields, and capital ships evolved backwards from the venator(which was essentially the Star Wars equivalent of an aircraft carrier) to the ISD, which has a far smaller hangar and is designed for capital ship-capital ship combat, and is so ridiculously vulnerable to starfighter bombing runs (looking at the 2 golf balls shield generators sticking out the top of the bridge )
I'm torn between the two variations of 66. BF2. On one hand, through the 501st journals, you hear that the clone looks back on the events leading up to Order 66 and his inner dialogue from those evens (even tho he shouldn't have been to every planet in that campaign). You hear in some cases, he saw the jedi as arrogant since they didn't wear armor and stuff, and when talking about Secura, he sounded somewhat remorseful for following through with the order.
On the other hand, the CW show gave us clones with so much humanity, that they needed a way that would *force* them to follow through the order without them looking like they did a 180° to follow order 66.
"I hesitated for a moment when I received Order 66 because the last thing I expected was a Jedi coup. Did I feel betrayed? You bet I did. I thought of all my men who died under Ki-Adi-Mundi's command, and if I'd known then that he and his buddies were gearing up to do the Separatists' work for them and overthrow the government, I'd have shot him as a traitor a lot earlier. He betrayed the trust of every one of us." - Commander Bacara
In the og george lucas canon the clones were seen as simple instruments by most if not all jedi, which naturally made the clones secretly despise them. This is why so many did not even hesitate to shoot. The only case where compassion is shown is in Ayla Secura's death, as she was said to be one of the few jedi who cared for her troopers. As such, commander Bly and his men gunned her down in an instant so that she does not feel any pain. ''It is a good thing we were wearing helmets, because none of us would dare to look her in the eye''.
I like the idea of the inhibitor chips because it makes the clones betrayal that much more heartbreaking
It really doesn't
@@Lady_Amelia-Eloise But it also creates a lot of problems on the backend to make happen.
In episode 2 the kaminoians say that they changed the clones genetics to make them follow any order without question, there was never any need to change anything because they're not normal people. That's the whole tragedy, because they follow any order without question, when they got order 66 they thought it was the right thing because their brains had been changed to be literally unable to question orders. In the original canon I guess they werent forced to do it so much as they just didn't question if it was right or wrong. The whole inhibitor chip thing is so stupid and takes away a lot of the tragedy to me, as well as the decisions to turn all of our favourite clone characters against the empire eventually - it feels like the writers are just so unable to make their characters be the bad guys.
@@hollohullu9448 Filoni is unable to give up his previous OCs.
He literally created time travel/dimension-hopping just to save Ahsoka from dying.
@@Lobsterwithinternet You're right. I don't dislike Filoni as much as lots of people do but he loves a happy ending too much, always tries to soften any blow.
The Inhibitor Chips were such a stupid concept and Dave Filoni is such a hack writer.
Order 66 went -so- much harder when the clones carried out Order 66 on their own full volition.
in the old EU, the Jedi were just such awful generals that got so many clones killed that by the time of Order 66 the surviving clones were frothing at the mouth to kill some Jedi in the same way soldiers would mutiny against corrupt officers.
Honestly, I call bullshit on "The Jedi being terrible" was the reason for the justification of Order 66. Like, Palpatine was INSANELY corrupt. Literally, why would any Clone side with him?
And barely any Jedi were explicitly said to be terrible leaders. For example: Aayla Secura. I don’t remember any clone or material talking about the Jedi being terrible leaders.
@@BarneyisJehova People proudly fought for Hitler. Rethink the logic of your question.
@@TheKiltedGerman Do you really think that if the choice was between 1943 Hitler and someone like Lincoln, that Hitler would still be as popular? No, ofcourse not.
@@BarneyisJehova You clearly haven't read anywhere enough history.
Also, Lincoln wasn't on the ballot.
Also, the clones had zero participation in politics.
@@BarneyisJehova Again. You're wrong
A lot of commenters leaving me convinced that Lucas' story made primarily for children is still somehow too complicated to understand by grown adults.
You CANNOT compare the clones to real life soldiers. Rea life soldiers are not genetically engineered from the embryo to be more docile and obedient, plus indoctrinated their entire lives. Any comparison suggests they are similar, which opens a whole lot of ideological baggage I'm sure no one wants to deal with in a pop-culture RUclips comments section.
Order Sixty six is one of the saddest moments in Star Wars. A whole culture that had been surviving for thousands of years wiped out in 1 day (the newest movies aren’t canon) so many died and that was the moment that would cause pain and suffering not just then but for decades afterwords
Anakin actually said that Tup was missing before the Ringovinda campaign. Plus....Tup was the one who stunned Krell too....
Good soldiers follow orders! But also at some point the average clone had less individuality, and were breed to be trusting in authority.
Personally I prefer no chip, but I get why clone wars clones needed something more
In the same way as they would have followed order 65, should it come through the proper channels
I like the EU/old version better, the chip thing was completely unneeded. The Order 66 thing was clearly based on history(realize that Lucas drew a lot from both history and mythology and other things for SW), an example when Constantius the 2nd decided to purge the Roman Imperial Family, which many were within the Roman military and so....those who supported Constantius...killed them.
Or one could look at it as the purge of the Knights Templar, where their Order was pretty much wiped out by King Philip.
So on and so forth.
The chip thing...was completely unnecessary.
I don’t think it was about, but Palpatine isn’t stupid. He known that certain clones would end up with better Jedis than others.
Honestly, I don’t believe any clone’s loyalty would side with Sidious over a Jedi like Aayla Secura for example.
Like, sure, some would probably side with him, but is it really that believable that Sidious wouldn’t put in a failsafe to make sure EVERY Jedi actually die?
@BarneyisJehova Attack of the Clones literally set up Order 66 by having the leader of Kaminoans say that "The clones have been genetically modified to be more obedient". Clone commanders, Arc Troopers, and Clone Commandos were not as heavily modified for obedience as standard Clone Troopers giving them more independence and free will.
@@26th_Primarch What clone is stupid enough to side with the corrupt politician that started a proxy war to make his brothers and friends die in mass, over the Jedi, who constantly fought with them?
@@BarneyisJehova because the clones were basically intended to be organic parallels to the Separatists droid army.
@@BarneyisJehova by how Star Wars canon is actually tiered Filoni's Clone Wars literally aren't canon because the inhibitor chips actually violate the canon established in the prequel films.
"We're killing children"
"The way I see it, the Brothers we lost on Geonosis weren't even 10 years old. By my count, the Jedi are still higher up there than us"
Like come on, that's an easy answer Order 66 was changed to mind control so we could still have sympathetic independant clones & so the Jedi had an explanation for never seeing it coming whenever Palpatine was not present.
Zey’s scene during order 66 is perfect, better still with how it gets followed up on in the next book
I think also canonically the clones were supposed to be the same as stormtroopers but that was changed at some point and may also have been a result of the clone wars humanizing the clones. It also wouldn't have made sense with the accelerated aging but i think it would have been cool if canonically the stormtroopers used to fought alongside the Jedi as clones but what can you do. I honestly prefer the clones being cold hearted soldiers who don't really care about the Jedi that much, as the idea of the clones knowing in advance they were gonna betray the Jedi and not saying anything about it is more badass in my opinion.
As for how the clones were able to take out the Jedi so easily, it helped greatly that the genetic template for the clones was a Mandalorian. Warriors who specialized in fighting Jedi.
My interpretation of the inhibitor chip was that the other 149 contingencies existed but the chip forced the clones if 66 is activated
My battery was at 66 ./. When watching this 💀
Behind the context of Order 66 it sure did become such a controversial issue across the franchise
I like both the inhibitor chips and the other explanation.
This is another case of the intresting and good ideas of the prequels that were sometimes not so well executed being executed better (or fixed) in other SW media
It should also be noted that issue 82 of republic also shows order 66 on kashyyyk with Luminara's death but shows like Quinlan actually survived
38:01 that's why I like the one fan film that shows the inhibitor chip changes their memories to anti jedi memories. Like instead of the Jedi saving a clone, the Jedi picks up the clone and uses him as a shield
@@chrisreilly1290 In that case, why use clones at all? Why not use criminals or just put them into regular recruits?
@Lobsterwithinternet need trained fighters. The clone would be way better than any criminals. Also the republic would not go for that
@ Why? Sidious controlled both sides. He could have just held back and allow both sides to win and lose at his leisure without losing the war.
Plus an inhibiter chip that can control your mind can give you the skills of the best warriors in the galaxy. Like Jango Fett?
@Lobsterwithinternet wouldn't be believable
@@chrisreilly1290 And trusting a clone army appearing out of nowhere to fight a war that just started is?
Here was my problem with clones in the prequels, they were just so much like droids, and they had almost no screentime to prove otherwise.
Compare Obi-wan talking to Cody and Cody asking him to leave some droids for him to; when a droid gives grievous obi-wans and qui-gons lightsabers, saying "Your welcome" when grievous snatches them from the droid
They would sell the stuff a month early because they knew that 95% of the fans who would go see it would likely never come into contact with said materials. The general SW fan base back in the late 90s and early 2000s still was largely focused around the movies and didn’t pay attention to the books and other material because it was considered really nerdy and you’d probably be made fun of for merely possessing things like that. Sure, I was in elementary and early middle school when the prequel trilogy came out, so perhaps my perspective is largely skewed around late childhood/early adolescence social dynamics, but what I described was how it seemed to be back then. I know because I loved the SW & LOTR universes, I loved the stories that were at the heart of the films, I played the video games, played with the Legos, got my face painted as Darth Maul the year when Episode I came out, and although it was acceptable because we were so young, once middle school hit then it became seen as really nerdy and childish. The casual SW viewer may have enjoyed the spectacle of the films, may have participated a little in the festivities that included SW themes when it was in the popular zeitgeist, but once that wore off it went back to being seen as dorky.
Sorry for the long response. TL;DR The producers knew the vast majority of casual viewers (who were the ones that made up the majority of seats in the cinemas) would never be exposed to the spoilers. Most adults with kids weren’t even using the Internet all that much, they were too busy working, socializing, taking their kids to after school activities, and it wouldn’t be until Episode III that MySpace would become widely popular among middle and high schoolers - the only adults who were seen frequently online were 1) creeps 2) musicians 3) celebrities 4) gamers/content creators and 5) adult nerds ~~ and a lot of those types overlapped with each other. It was nothing like how our post-2005 or post-2008/2009 society would turn out to be, when your average *normal* adult began to really use the Internet, probably because this is when older Millennials normalized its usage and especially when Facebook took over the social media sphere.
the expanded universe and the pre-clone wars animated show is the best canon
I thought the inhibitor chips make perfect sense: Order 66 only worked because the Jedi were taken by complete suprise, and had the clones been simply ordered to do it, the Jedi would have sensed their hostile intent.
Not necessarily. That would only hold up if the clones had any malice behind the order. However as things like the ROTS novel pointed out, they didn't. So the Jedi had little they could detect at that point.
Don't forget that when Aayla Secura was being executed by her clones, she chose to raise her hands in surrender, rather than ignite her lightsabers and fight back. She cared about the clones under her command so much, she just allowed them to kill her once she sensed what they were going to do.
@@toska3528 That is slightly inaccurate to how the events happened, her movements and facial expressions indicate she didn’t have a shade of doubt in her troops as they gunned her down believing they had seen an enemy she had not detected yet. I'm free to admit I’m wrong though if you’re quoting the novelisation, for I have yet to read it myself.
@Regibump37 it was something pointed out in another video from another RUclipsr that I watched a little while ago. I don't remember which video it was, but essentially, if you look at her face, she looks at her clones over her shoulder, and you can see for a fraction of a second, she realizes what's going down, and goes to raise her hands -- presumably to surrender and to drop her sabers -- it was clear she could, "sense," what was gonna happen much like Yoda did. But, she chose to not engage.
If she thought the clones were about to fight a threat, she likely wouldn't have raised her arms, she likely would have assumed her battle stance and kept her sabers at waist height.
Having the Inhibiter chip removed also saved Clones from executing the Jedi.
The chips were nothing but a Contingency Plan for the Contingency Plans
@@shelbybayer200 A contingency plan that was unneeded and introduced a technology that makes the OT impossible.
8:25 The same way that in Canon that no Jedi found out that the Geonosians were enslaved after the 2nd Battle of Geonosis and forced to build the Death Star. Jedi being dumb for plot convenience (this is usually justified by some lore explanation about their force senses being clouded) is a very important part of the PT.
I liked when there wasn’t chips controlling the clones and that it was just an order that was 1 of 100 😮
It's more about all of the things Filoni introduced in TCW and as creative head of Lucasfilm along with the inhibiter chips that literally destroy the Original Trilogy if they had existed.
Like Tracking Fobs, Chain Codes, Inhibiter Chips, the Disguise Matrix, the ability to track holotransmissions along with the ability to uncover hoods in those transmissions, tech that allows them to physically change their voice, face, etc.
All of which would make the OT we know impossible.
The original order 66 being that every clone follows the order willingly is always going to be my favorite as them needing a mund control chip makes the "obedient army" thing entirely pointless
It really doesn’t, it basically just makes them physically incapable of disobeying extreme orders when legends had way more examples of clones disobeying order 66
I’m exactly four years younger than episode three
Dude I never read up on any of this the layers of interesting things about this franchise I get now why its so popular
Battlefront II's campaign was the GOAT
Filoni was the worst thing that happened to the franchise
That is a crazy take!
You don't need a biochip in your head to push the like button, subscribe and set notifications to all so you never miss Michael Jae content.
The Clones are Mandalorians in a way so of course they would kill the Jedi regardless because what did the Jedi do to the Mandalorians? I'm pretty sure there was a Jango Fett Comic that explained it.
Honestly I think Order 66 was Jango's idea.
I honestly love the introduction of the chips, if the clones were just people who didn't care about shooting jedi, even those who cared for them deeply, then I wouldn't really like clones, introducing chips is why clones like Cody are still liked, who shot Obi-Wan without hesitation, even Captain Rex is my second favoutite character behind Ahsoka, if it turned out he plotted this betrayal all along, I would hate him, having the chips makes clones more likeable, that they did actually care for the jedi.
the OG order 66 is a contingency against the Jedi who CAN overthrow the Republic. The Jedi being capable of this is common knowledge by everyone in lore and why Palpatine himself doesn't respect the Jedi because they refuse to try it.
I don't like the chips because I don't think the chips were needed to explain the clones turning at all. They could have known about Order 66 like any other order or law, and were prepared to do it to uphold the peace in their minds. Like any cop or soldier who has to do dirty for the ill defined "greater good".
I want to reiterate that last point because I think its important: I do think a lot of clones would shoot their Jedi leaders if they were told they had to. We don't even have to touch on the way the clones were treated or if they were slaves or not because that doesn't matter; I think normal soldiers would do the same. Of course, a lot of clones would allow their leaders to escape, but that would make for an interesting story and apparently a lot of Jedi escaped anyway.
I just ignore it like I ignore TCW.
I preferred no inhibitor chip. Battlefront 2 really sold me on the moral dilemma. They knew what they had to do and they did it even though they didn't want to. Because Good Soldiers follow orders. You could really feel the pain and the regret in the journal entries.
The Clone Wars did what it had to do to keep their favorite characters from being bad. The Clone Wars was a kids show. I don't think it could have handled the darker story of "Following Orders." Maybe it's a bit too real, with the way that same reasoning is used in our world on a daily basis to brutalize people the world over.
Brain cancer chip is unnecessary.
The clones were bred to obey orders without question. Aka they were generically engineers which was told to Obi-Wan. Needing to hide these cancer chips would be unnecessary as the cloners can easily explain it part of the clone conditioning. It that old saying, the best place hide something is in plain sight. The only reason tcw jedi didn't investigate further is because of dave poor writing.
TCW show is just keep aging wrose over time since it keep contradicting lore from the movies
Not to mention all the other tech TCW and Bad Batch introduced that would make the OT impossible like Chain Codes and tech that allows you to track holocommunications.
28:11 I don't think it did. All it suggests is that some clones knew that it was happening while others didn't. I am also surprised you didn't mention that the majority of clones who had moral issues, like the one who married the Jedi, were either ARC troopers or clone commandos, who were bred and raised differently from the rest of the clones.
28:16 The clones weren't betrayed by Palpatine. The only people who were betrayed by Palpatine on the side of the Republic were the Jedi, some militia forces and some Republic loyalists.
cancelling swbf3 was criminal
Honestly the chips make a lot more sense than just saying they were brainwashed. Makes complete sense for the Kaminoan’s to implement something to force the clones to obey extreme orders
I don't think the issue comes down to whether or not such technology would be used but whether it should exist to begin with.
@ the whole point is that it was meant to be secret so it doesn’t mess with any lore, it should exist plus adds more to the clones being tragic characters which they should be portrayed as
Travis as a writer has become a little controversial over the years, while her Republic commano series was fairly well down her other actions in the star wars community and that of Halo and Gears of war have made some recontextualization her previous works.
Its a whole thing but at least for most of her Republic commando stories this shouldn't apply. At least i hope.
9:48 I disagree that it is about feeling emotions. Obviously clones can feel emotions. I think it is actually quite ridiculous to expect the clones to act with the exact same value system as not just humans but Western humans. Why would they given their origins? It isn't just about basic emotions, it is about societal norms. Why would all clones know that they should be gentle with children? The Waxer and Boil story was actually pretty good, but TCW didn't just humanise clones, it made them nigh impossible to distinguish from non-clone heroes in terms in their values.
I liked it so much better when they didnt have the chips. Was just way more brutal and awesome
Honestly the chips only make sense for those like Plo or Obi Wan, but their had been jedi who are more like Krell or just terrible commanders in general that clones would execute without any problem at all if ordered. But all you still have a few clones who did actually disobey the order.
I kinda don't mind when there wasn't any chip, for like the 501st, when they marched to the temple, they have no attachment to any Jedi besides Anakin, and maybe few others like Obi Wan. But for most part they don't mind killing
17:41 i never noticed Pandemic used an upside down scope for the grip in the DC15
I hate the inhibitor chips
5:26 I don't think it indicates a lack of connection at all. TCW has done a really good job of making people forget *who* the clones were raised by and *how* they were raised. The clones were raised by *Kaminoans.* How emotional and gentle do Kaminoans seem to be? They seem civil and orderly yes, but they are never suggested to be morally good, and in the EU, they have a very strict society that values order and rules and are also pretty racist.
21:48 I'd still love to see Karen Travis finish the series with the legends label
33:51 The Inhibitor Chip plot was a stupid idea and the only reason why it exists was because of how human they made the Clones in the TV Show.
I can buy how the singled out jedi died, since their troops suddenly turn on them and outnumber them. What I’ll never understand is how a single legion of clones was able to take the Jedi temple. There must’ve been hundreds of Jedi in there if not thousands, and the clones didn’t REALLY have the element of surprise either
@@Cmmdre977 Gotta remember most jedi were not even close to as powerful or skilled as Obi-Wan or any of the Jedi on the Council. This has given a skewed view of how powerful the Jedi of the era were.
Most of them were at the level of Padiwan at best and most of the ones left at the Jedi Tempke were even less so, most of them being scholars, workers and children.
@ I guess that’s true, most of the combat Jedi/the best of the best were off on missions
I definitly think in a vaccum (Going off of the movies alone) the chips are unnessecary and stupid; But the problem is that what the clone wars series did with the clones is WAY better and neccisates the chips for plot reasons
I always think of them as a Neccesary evil especially since they did more with the chips beyond "This is why the clones became evil" We had stories of chips firing early, Chips not firing when they should have but possibly firing late, ETC
Why not a little bit of both?
I think the chips make more sense because it would be weird for Palpatine to leave such an important part of the plan up to chance.
@@shadowrobot7708 Then why use clones at all? Why not just use droids if he wanted to not take chances?
Contrary to what most people say, Pslpatine isn't as smart as they portray him and takes many more risks as well.
@@LobsterwithinternetBecause the separatists were using droids. It would make it easier to turn public sentiment against the droids (like they did with Aliens). Also using clones provides a nice transition into using Storm troopers.
@ Yep.
But then why use them instead of people if they were just going to be people anyway?
@@Lobsterwithinternet The clone troopers were designed to fight a galactic war. It is much harder to convince the population to go fight a war than use clones to do it.
Stormtroopers were designed to keep the peace and squash out Rebel groups. They were not intended to fight a major war however things did not work out the way Palpatine planned them to.
@@topace1038 Then what’s stopping them from turning around and performing a coup on his government, joining the Seperatists, or just deserting in mass?
They didn’t change it Dave faloni made it more understandable and more depth to it
35:06 You absolutely don't. Anyone who knows anything about history can tell you that people didn't need magic mind control chips to force them to commit war atrocities. Even if the clones were more emotional and independent than the EU portrayed them, they still would have followed their orders.
The issue that after the first few seasons, *TCW doesn't just humanise the clones, it just makes them more moral people overall.* Of course, this doesn't actually work with the depictions of their actions like on Umbara where they execute people, but the show takes the stance that they can do no wrong, which has translated into TBB's moral quagmire where the clones, *soldiers who were bred and indoctrinated for their entire childhood to fight and die for their country without question, are somehow more moral than regular people (TK troopers) who cannot have received more than a few months training* because of the show's timeline.
2:02 WHAT NO WAY, THAT CAN'T BE TRUE!!!!
Ur half correct there was a anceint sith temple under jedi temple sheev was using that to cloud jedis minds with dark side dooku mentions this to obi when he gets captured on geonosis
You skipped the 2003 clone wars show
03 doesn't really touch the subject. It did treat the clones as just more effective droids, though.
The idea that the clones had inhibitor chips was always there George always wanted the clones and Jedi to have close ties which can seen in the scenes with Cody in ep 3 and in the 2D clone wars show which was released in between ep 2 and 3 and the 3D clone wars show was able to expand on the Jedi and clone relationship and the inhibitor chips since most of the major storylines were George’s ideas and he worked with the show’s team to fully develop the scripts and storyboards. George was very involved in the clone wars shows he was consulted on all storylines and changed things that didn’t line up with his vision and came up with many storylines for the shows.
Then explain Mortis and the Force Gods which contradict George’s explanation of the Force and Balance?
"The inhibitor chips came straight from George Lucas himself."
*Press X to doubt*
Lucus basically didn't give a dam what Filoni did with Star Wars as long as it didn't completely ruin the continuity of his films. He tired of Plinket stans berating him about the Prequels and just wanted move on to different things.
Strangely, IMDB credits George Lucas as a writer of that episode, but Wookieepedia does not.
Not true.
George was involved in the first couple seasons and became less involved as he was focusing on other projects like Star Wars Underground and The Force Unleashed.
the jr novel is crazy 😭😭😭