The Problem With Dave Filoni
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Dave Filoni is a personal hero of mine, having written some of my favorite stories of all time, but that doesn't mean he's without his faults. Before you immediately dismiss me and go back to worshipping the ground he walks on, I ask that you hear me out.
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After watching Ahsoka, this video aged like fine wine.
I'm not even watching it, lol. Fuck the Filoniverse and its lies.
No kidding. I'm here at the same situation. This video is almost prophetic
explain please
@@frankjoseph8830 Episodes 7 and 8 were...to put it politely, not very good
The Ashoka show was absolute hot garbage.
Written by someone whos IQ cant be more than 70.
Didn't he make it so that Anakin never actually met grievous in the clone wars? Just to make sure that one line wouldn't be weird?
Yes, he did. They never met face to face until ROTS.
@BatCatDickBabsJayTimSteph CassDukeKateLukeHarlHel it doesn't really matter honestly
@@Bearical Actually it does, because now it makes the movie seem wonky because it now makes little sense for him to taunt him that way.
Same with the Anakin line "My powers have double since we last met count."
"Good. Twice the pride, double the fall."
That implies that their meeting in ROTS has been a long time coming and double the fall implies that this fight will be the second fight, yet TCW has them fight numerous times.
@@CassDaMan1138
My belief is that Dave didn’t want to overuse Asajj and Savage, so he just used Grievous and said what was the worst that could happen. Disregarding Durge, of course.
@@CassDaMan1138 I think Anakin’s line “my powers have doubled” still works great. If anything, it adds to Anakin’s arrogance and confidence in his abilities. If I recall correctly, the last time Anakin and Dooku meet in TCW is around a year before ROTS, though it might have been a hair shorter time than that, and I recall Dooku making a snide comment to Anakin about his abilities before jumping to his ship. Either way, Anakin is a much better duelist between the last time they meet and when they fight on the dreadnought in ROTS, so I think that line remains fine.
However, I do agree that Grievous’ line to Kenobi is a little weird with them having fought several time in TCW, but one could interpret the line as him boasting after receiving more training from Dooku since they last met if one wanted to look at it that way.
He’s an adult man who frequently wears a cowboy hat, and doesn’t work in a ranch he therefore cannot be trusted with anything
I live in Wyoming and this is true.
@@lephinor2458 wyoming is an illusion
Man I hope this is satire
He wants an epic shadow, like Indy. He aint no Indy...
Closest thing to a ranch he's been to is a Dude Ranch. ... let's just say it's fitting.
My biggest gripe is how he specifically went out of his way to make grievous the least interesting one note weak villain when he clearly showed a shit ton of depth for ventress and completely rewrote and resurrected maul into a way different character compared to his movie counterpart.
It takes effort to make such a cool unique character like grievous a complete fucking bitch for 6 seasons
Yee
He definitely played favorites with the villains. Dooku also went from a tragic political revolutionist to a mustache-twirler.
@@ltb1345 he ruin Grievous and didnt gave more role with character like Pre Vizla or Savage, only Favoring AHSOKA
@@ltb1345 where did you got that from ??
Not completely disagreeing with you but grievous was already acting like a bitch in revenge of the sith. When a fight wasn’t going his way like at the beginning of the movie he blows out the ships glass and runs away. When Obi wan confronts him at the end when the battle isn’t going his way he runs away again to the point where if he was stopped he would of left the planet. The point where grievous became a bitch definitely happened from the movie. Seems like the show was just trying to keep in consistent.
Dave can't even keep continuity between Rebels and Ahsoka.
Yeah, it's just a filthy word to him and always has been, and yet the seals praise this like the best shit ever, lol.
Someone give him a reality check.
Dave Filoni strikes me as a guy who isn't a Star Wars fan but is a fan of the Star Wars content *HE* makes
OC fanfic writer
@@rustyshackelford4224 legit couldn't put it any better XD
Thats it. You described perfectly.
Just inserting Ahsooka in every major event outside the movies is the raw proof of that. I even think that if he could, he would insert her in the movies like a special edition addition.
@@martingenero6328Fuck Ahsoka. Dont really mind her in the series, a Lil bit annoying at Times, but some Times important to the plot. A far cry for Canon though.
Generally a good video, but it feels weird that Filoni is portrayed as the sole person responsible for the creative decisions of the TV shows. I really don’t think it works that way.
Yeah George had a lot of input in what went into the show and it was actually his idea to change the name of the sith homeworld
whenever people talk about how good clone wars, mando, etc are it's always only because of Filoni but when they talk about the bad it's not?
@@broston_ it’s never only been because of Filoni. Good and bad decisions are made by an entire creative team, not just one single person.
The same could be said about Kathleen Kennedy. She’s always singled out for being the sole reason why the sequels sucked, yet there were so many other people and factors that made that trilogy bomb. Kennedy has also been executive producer on both the Mandalorian and Boba Fett, but she’s never brought up there.
@@MisterDutch93 I know it's not only because of him, I said that that is what people say
@@broston_ Yes, I know. I was adding to your comment.
Strange how Dave went to such lengths to ensure Anakin and Grievous never met during TCW but also allowed Grievous and Obi Wan to Duel throughout TCW when it's implied through Grievouses dialogue that their duel in RoTS was the first time they fought.
Because TCW is largely overrated m my. Well, some of it
Likely because George told him no.
@@countof3everybodyOD It's all overrated.
Because you can retcon the line "I've been taught your Jedi arts by Count Dooku" with some mental gymnastic like Grievous used to fight with wild unorganized moves, and only near the event of EP3 did he learned proper Jedi arts from Dooku (even though these "Jedi arts" appear to be just spinning fans).
But as for the line "Anakin Skywalker, I expected someone with your reputation to be a little older" is 100% first meet dialogue, there really is no way to work around it.
I thought Anakin never fighting Maul was stranger.
Ahsoka should've died by Vader in all honesty; either a few years after RotS, or following their Rebels duel. She would've served her purpose in that sense. That way it would explain her absence during the OT and Luke being the last of the Jedi. But because she's Filoni's "precious," she gets to live through ALL the eras...
I agree. I hope the TV show finishes up her story.
Theres literally great reasonings for ahsoka to be alive. Her purpose isn’t done yet
I agree, used to be okay with her being alive but now I feel like it would have meant more for her death at the end of rebels season 2. I don’t care for them placing her in everything now and especially not liking how they’re making the journey to find Ezra her show and duty and not just make a Rebels sequel and have it be Sabine’s story like it’s supposed to be
Oh yeah you've just brought up Filoni's "Best" idea ever: "Time Travel!"
Because of this stupid ass decision, now anything can be altered in Star Wars due to time traveling space wolves and other bull shit. XD
But Luke was never going to be the last of the Jedi even if she died since 2 are missing one from the old order and another trained during the rise of the rebellion
Kinda get the feeling Feloni has a “My OC’s are cooler than these other authors.” thing.
How?
Yes, he's exceptionally arrogant and believes his own bullshit lies.
Yeah, this is so true
He does. He's perfectly willing to ruin a good story if it means he can shove his annoying pet characters in anywhere he wants.
I hate his ocs, especially seeing them in live action just shows how embarrassing they are
Fun fact, George is the one who wanted the name of the sith home changed to moraband. He thought is sounded better
Korriban sounds more intriguing, Moraband doesn’t sound bad, but I don’t prefer that name.
@@gaget5455 well apparently George liked it
@@TenToAceStudios which is fine if he does. Like I said, it doesn’t sound bad. Hell it could go like this, and I think The Old Republic has done this before. The Planet Nathema used to be called something else. Don’t remember the name but that’s the story behind it. Maybe they could’ve done this. Korriban was the Original name, but when all The Sith died off, the name was changed to Moraband. I wouldn’t change its name, but even so, at least it would make sense as to why. Since The Old Republic Video Game did that.
@@gaget5455 yep, always been my thought about it
@@gaget5455 the whole korriban-moraband controversy is probably like the whole ka-shick - ka-sheek pronunciation controversy within the star wars universe
My biggest problem with Dave is that he has a lot of pet characters. He keeps them around and refuses to let go, ultimately making their stories less impactful as they survive past their compelling original narratives. E.g Ashoka, who’s death in rebels would have been a perfect end to her character. It makes the scene at the end of that episode way less impactful. Ashoka doesn’t really even do that much afterward anyway, her appearance in Mando and Boba Fett was just fan service, there was no narrative reason for her to be there. It could have been anyone else or no one at all.
My biggest problem with him is his disrespect for established characters and lore.
"Hmm, I wanna bring Revan into TCW. So let's make him a Sith spirit." (Thank god that didn't go forward)
"Hmm, I wanna bring Asajj Ventress into TCW. So let's change her species and mess up Zabrak biology."
"Hmm, I wanna bring KOTOR 2 elements into Rebels. So let's just introduce Malachor for nostalgia bait and ignore everything else."
"Hmm, I wanna bring the Inquisitorius into Rebels. So let's turn them into evil Mary Poppins."
"Hmm, I wanna bring Imperial Commandos into The Bad Batch. So let's make Scorch as goofy as an average stormtrooper."
Or Cad Bane. He does *not* look like a 70+ year old in The Book of Boba Fett at all, and his species apparently has a life expectancy shorter than humans. He's just there because Filoni likes him and wanted to service the fans, when the role could've been filled by anyone.
Her role didn't even really need to exist in that episode.
@@Jaerek Well, had they made Book of Boba with good writing, Cad Bane could have worked perfectly. Have flashbacks on the twos relationship, show that Cad Bane is refusing to die and gets cybernetics to prolong his life and so on. But they use him in the same way Ahsoka. Member berries.
@@Jaerek this is just flat-out wrong, duros live a roughly equivalent 70-80+ year lifespan.
he also looks pretty much like an elderly version of the cantina duros from anh, so idk what you're talking about at all.
Wookieepedia, of all places, actually acknowledges an example of Filoni flipping the bird to established continuity in the TCW episode "Grievous Intrigue," where Wolfboy Dave wanted to use the character of Zabrak Jedi Eeth Koth in the story but was told by *both* Leland Chee and Pablo Hidalgo that he could not because the existing literature had Koth dying in battle on Geonosis a long time prior to when the episode was to take place. Rather than graciously accepting and working around this, Filoni went directly to Lucas (thus undercutting Chee's and Hidalgo's authority and thus the reason that they were working for Lucasfilm in the first place) and then presumably threw a hissy fit until Lucas let him have his way.
Which was a horrible decision, because Eeth Koth dying off-screen in a gunship crash was MUCH more interesting!
@@Evarakeus true art comes from working under limitations, not whining until The Maker lets you do whatever you want.
This is what Wookiepedia said about Eeth Koth in Legends:
"While in transit the Jedi's gunship was hit by Separatist artillery fire and brought down.[12] While both Koth[1] and Bulq[13] barely survived the attack, only Koth was rescued by the Republic, unwittingly leaving Bulq, who was thought dead, to fend for himself.[12][14][13]"
Could you find the Wookiepedia example that acknowledges Filoni retconning events that happened in the Star Wars continuity?
@@someoneunknown1645 Wookieepedia also says this on Koth's "Legends" page, under "Behind the Scenes":
"Inside the Worlds of Star Wars: Attack of the Clones, published in 2003, stated that Koth died during the Battle of Geonosis when his gunship was brought down by enemy fire... When "Grievous Intrigue", a 2010 episode of Star Wars: The Clone Wars was being written, series supervising director Dave Filoni wanted to use Koth, but was told by both Leland Chee, keeper of the Holocron continuity database, and Pablo Hidalgo, Internet Content Manager for Lucas Online, that the character was dead."
Try looking a little harder next time.
@@CanadianPale you left out this piece of info although cheers.
"However, Koth was mentioned as fighting in the Clone Wars in the 2008 novel Wild Space.[15]"
Dave Filoni was not the first one to contradict canon here with resurrectly Eeth Koth and apparently he was fighting in the Clone Wars. Wild Space takes place one month after the Clone Wars. I am not sure how it changes with anything with Filoni retconning Canon but worth noting.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Almec was just dismissing Jango Fett as "one of them" as a way to discard any suspicion, I don't think it was meant to be taken literally.
Exactly, not everything that characters say is true by any means.
That's how I chose to interpret it with headcanon, though I was pretty sure it was Dave respecting George's odd wish to keep Jango and Boba as non-Mandalorians, just bounty hunters that use their armor. So naturally I was glad to see in Mando season 2 that Jango definitely was a Mandalorian foundling. The way I see it, they just waited until Lucas was out of the picture to finally canonize that detail.
My headcanon is that Jango was, but he maybe left at a certain point, or being a bounty hunter at that time cast judgement on his claim to be a Mandalorian. As we see in Mando, a “true Mandalorian” means different things to different Mandalorians, and that it’s not as black and white as taking the creed or if you’re born Mandalorian or not.
100th Like 😎🔊🔊🔊🔊🔊
Yeah, especially since the Mandalorian established that Jango was a Mandalorian.
My biggest problem with Filoni is that he's so full of himself and his creations. Every Star Wars project he makes always connects to the Clone Wars or Rebels, he didn't kill Ahsoka because he can't let her go and in doing so, created a time travelling device that's never explained.
Time Travel is a concept that is as far away from Star Wars as Batman is to Thomas the Tank Engine...and this is from a Doctor Who fan who loves the concept of Time Travel.
I hate that since the Sequel era is radioactive for a while, all they want to do now is track Prequel dirt into my OT.
Ahsoka was a good character with her character development and story but it’s obvious Dave is starting to write her story more unnaturally, like eventually she has to die, she is already been around from Aotc basically, a year later so, ALLLLLLL the way to after return of the Jedi, it just ruins her story and I really liked her story as a character and him saving her over and over is just not smooth or natural
he’s obsessed with ahsoka that’s why i don’t like her character and prefer the 2003 clone wars.
My problem is how Filoni has handled Thrawn, don’t get me wrong I love the idea of Thrawn being a villian in rebels. Then I read the books, by Timothy zahn, Filoni didn’t captured Thrawn’s character. He just made Thrawn basically alien tarkin.
I like Thrawn in rebels because he's an eloquent and intelligent villain who, while surely being evil, works first and foremost for efficiency and not out of blood thirst or anything. Then on the other hand, I also haven't read the books.
Exactly.
@@4cps777 In the books, he's a lot more layered. He genuinely cares about his troops, and his troops genuinely love and respect him because he treats them with dignity.
@@KyokujiFGC And his troops are actually competent... which Filoni can't allow.
@@KyokujiFGC in rebels he cared too no? he was also sympathetic at times. he even attacked an imperial officer for being a "racist", so I don't think he's an evil tarkin. he's definitely less arrogant.
Holy sh*t i watched this video yesterday and not even 24 hours later, ventress is in the bad batch season 3 . You were right, this man is a problem.
For context,she died in the book dark disciple.
This video has aged pretty much perfectly.
Yeah, but the Filoni cult is too busy drinking the Kool-aid to listen.
I seem to remember there being an EU working group who managed continuity. There was even a separate NJO steering committee who plotted out the entire New Jedi Order series and then assigned books to individual writers with the specific plot beats they needed to cover. The new fandom's claim that there was no EU continuity always blows my mind. NJO is, what, 26 novels by various authors all telling the single story of an extragalactic invasion. You can't do that w/o continuity people involved.
Also, IMO: NJO would have been perfect for the Sequel films as the OT cast would have been about the right age.
Just Disney revisionists who think they have the best thing in the universe and want to make fun of the lonely nerds who miss the EU and want it continued as Legends.
George Lucas literally said none of the EU was canon
@@lovemathers2763no one cares, its better than most of new canon
@@lovemathers2763he never said that and his involment and opinions on the EU are well documented and known. I suggest to you to investigate. In fact Captain Fordo has a great 1hr video explainig it
@@lovemathers2763🤣 That's a good joke.
My biggest problem with Dave Filoni more recently is how self referential his stuff has become. Every time he touches a new Star Wars project clone wars characters start falling into it left and right. We get it dude. You made Ashoka and Cad Bane, but that doesn't mean they have any reason to be in The Book of Boba Fett!
Cad bane makes sense cause his history
@@CRYSTAL_CUSTOMS He's well past Duros lifespan at that point, it didn't even make sense for him to be alive, let alone working as a mercenary and gunslinging. Is he immortal or something?
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 well in canon duros don't have a set lifespan so they can say what they want about their age
@@CRYSTAL_CUSTOMS You seem to have forgotten the whole point of this video. They should STOP doing stuff like that lol
@@maliziosoeperverso1697 the whole point is that Dave should now follow disney canon, which he is
If I was gonna say there's a problem with Dave, I think it's his tendency to fixate on certain characters (IE Ahsoka) and concepts (IE wolves) and shoehorn them into places they don't necessarily need to be. I don't mind continuity issues quite as much.
Demonstrably false dude! At least Filoni is His biggest critic & always gives credit to others especially George. Dave Filoni - I never acted like Star Wars was mine, I just try to do things that George would do".
@@SwaggerLikeUz I do not disagree with you but can you demonstrate how what I said was false?
@@SwaggerLikeUz what does that have to do with this comment
@@DarthWillSmith he takes credit when people likes him and blames George when it's bad
@@magnenoalex2 never seen that happen even once
I like Dave Filoni, and honestly most of these changes that he made don't bother me, but the problem with a lot of Star Wars fans is they act like Filoni can do no wrong because he was basically George Lucas's apprentice and the heir to Lucas's throne. So any time you criticize Filoni people will say "He learned directly from George Lucas so he automatically knows Star Wars better than anyone other than George Lucas."
Actually most of the changes claimed to have been made by him in this video were made by George, who was never particularly fond of the EU and only allowed it for money and so the fans could get more content basically.
It doesn't really matter who's making star wars though, as they have to operate within the woke Disney framework. So every decision is influenced and therefore not actually exactly what Dave or anyone else would want.
And honestly he probably learned a lot of bad things from Lucas, whose also had shit ideas from time to time. XD
@@MRDLT00 exactly
@@MRDLT00 Omg thanks you finally someone says George Lucas isn’t perfect I said something like this on a Instagram comment and so many people attack me lmao
my favorite contradiction was when Sam Witwer corrected Dave about Padme already meeting Schmi
Yeah, and how about the time Filoni says if he's going to use the EU, "I don't want to change it, that'd be rude," but that's _precisely_ what he's been doing the whole time? It confirms something I've suspected for a long time - that Filoni actually _believes_ his own bullshit web of lies.
I find it hilarious that filoni says he doesn’t like being creatively limited yet every story he writes uses his exact same OC characters in similar situations doing similar things. This is why I don’t want Dave and John to run all the Disney plus shows
Well, what's meant by saying that he doesn't want to be limited creatively is that he wants to be able to do what he wants without other things that already exist getting in his way.
Yeah, better to bring these guys from the sequels🤦♂️🤦♂️
The only difference between character like Din and Ahsoka and shitty op anime characters is a tiny bit of good writing and some depth.
Personally I love what they’ve done so far and it’s not me acting like nothing he’s done hasn’t ever been good or great, in which I have enjoyed them all and personally feel that it’s been the best stuff we’ve gotten in what feels like forever, but however that doesn’t mean he’s totally free of any gripes and complaints or anything that I might feel that I just don’t care for
This being said, I do agree that I like it better if you have a group of people working together over just one person getting a higher say and everyone else having to run around what they say except for when it comes the main films, the expanded media should have more than just one creative developer
My biggest problem with Dave Filoni is that he will sacrifice everything necessary just for the sake of making his story happen, this includes established characters, their intelligence and everything else. I rewatched the Clone Wars recently and i have noticed that A LOT of the Episodes depend on characters doing something retarded just so the episode can happen, its really bad and Filoni has carried it into Mando and other shows. By writing standards the guy is not that good.
So just like George Lucas?
@@MattyPan118 ...not really no...
If the writers of the Knights the Old Republic games can write 50 hour games, that build on previously established lore from tales of the Jedi. how is it that dave could be soo apathetic?
Thank you
Like Barriss Offee, yeah, he's trash 🗑️💩
The old EU wasn't perfectly consistent, but it was about as consistent as it could've been given how many people were working on different things.
The Disney canon was supposed to be entirely consistent with itself, but that's just not possible. Even single authors will have plotholes and retcons in their works. Having dozens of different artists in various media are going to inevitably contradict each other. The old EU was prepared for that and handled it better than just about any other franchise of its scale. Disney canon wasn't prepared for the inevitable conflicts.
The cowboy himself said back in 2014 that the new EU would be canon and interconnected, and then he goes and overwrites it like he's always done, lol.
To be fair, the new canon was pretty consistent overall up until episode IX, that's when audiovisual creatives got a taste of fucking over the written media and so everyone proceeded to retcon those works at will.
Not to mention, it's asking too much to fill in massive gaps when you have the source material that is a treasure trove.
My biggest issue is he constantly makes stuff that he will then later retcon. He has no long-term plan. He just throws it together and constantly relies on the same formula that every show relies on these days. Grizzled hardened badass with a young quirky apprentice who he warms up to and then eventually sees as a surrogate child.
And of course his over-reliance on nostalgia and fan service. The constant plot holes and errors and everything he writes always gets ignored in favor of oh look it's ahsoka! Hey you guys remember clone troopers? Wow is that a battle droid!
I have found myself butting heads with Filoni fan boys as the years go by. People just blindly praise him when in reality he's a bit of a hack.
Also, he likes to play both sides. Depending on who is in the room he's either shitting on fans or saying he loves them.
Yep, something I realized is that he literally had no plan for Maul's ultimate fate. Because remember, before Disney's canon purge, Rebels wasn't planned yet, but the Siege of Mandalore was, which means they would've kept Maul alive with no explanation as to whether Obi-Wan ever defeated him afterward.
@@cooljim1376 I noticed this is how he seems to treat Legends. Praising it one moment, sneering it was never canon when pressed by criticism the next.
Filoni's inability to plan long term is what harms his work the most. The guy can't plan more than an ep or two ahead at most.
Dave is the biggest "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!" Merchant in Star Wars. He just HAS to include references everywhere that just makes Star Wars feel like a small universe.
Inhibitor chips is the worst thing feloni created
Yup it shouldve been clones deciding between their general friends and loyalty to the Republic
George Lucas created the concept of the inhibitor chips before they were a thing in the TCW.
@@merafirewing6591still kind of silly
@@merafirewing6591
But they didn't appear in the movies, so he either changed his mind or thought it was too silly of a concept
This is prefect.
So many people worship the ground Filoni walks on but he’s actually a selfish creator who will happily disregard material made by other people in order to tell a story the way he wants to. He has no regard for continuity or interesting storytelling, only in fan service and self gratification, and yet people just keep eating it up.
If he was making stuff better then that’s more understandable, but instead we get lazy retellings. And now in Tales of the Jedi (a title itself copied from an old legends comic series) we get a trimmed down rushed retelling of the Ahsoka novel with none of the depth of detail.
Keep preaching 👏 💯 🙌 🙏 brother Dave filoni is an overrated talentless hack he stole the tales of the jedi title from Tom veich after he passed away and didn't even gave him credit if I were Kevin j Anderson I would sue him.
Yes, you can tell he doesn't like continuity because of what he's doing in the new canon now, when he was parroting the story group line nine years ago about how it'd be different than it was for the old EU, then he goes and starts overwriting licensed material as usual. At least people are finally waking up to it. You don't have to hate his content to call out his behavior and be willing to say that "this is NOT okay." To invalidate other people's works that way.
That's a lot of creators now. They don't want to "work in a box" or "live in the shadow of [someone]". And regardless of who it comes from, it's annoying. While it can be difficult to not step on the toes of other creators (especially now that there are so many working on Star Wars) it's still important to worry about what they contributed and what the messages and characters represent.
I dont want to get into it now, but I'm specifically referring to when a Dave bends the characterization of others (many brought up Grievous) to make the/his protagonists an easy V or to generate needless drama.
I know a lot of you don't care about whether or not the Jedi are portrayed as incompetent or even evil, but the writers shouldnt go out of their way to crap on the Jedi, for example, just to make Ahsoka, Anakin, or Bo seem MORE sympathetic than what is necessary.
@@ThreadBareHope1234 He can't even write his own characters anymore. Why should Ahsoka be preaching the values of non-attachment when she LEFT the Jedi? SMH
@Saberian Dream That's a good point.
Tho i think after that arch with the Onderon Rebel group she would understand it, but she strikes me as the type that would abandon a lot of Jedi values, either bc the writers want her to be more likeable to fans that hate no attachments or bc "I'm no jedi"
Filoni has to be his own biggest fan
And his own worst enemy.
FINALY someone speaking out. It drives me insane how much people are worshiping him and any critisim towards dave is considered to be a big no no
I think its more that he is a good step forward for star wars than he is infallible. Tye stuff he makes is generally some of the better star wars stuff, and with stuff like the sequels he is the best hope for the future of star wars
Many of the problems you have with Dave and the clone wars weren’t actually Dave but George Lucas. He wanted Grievous to be the coward like villain. He changed the name of the sith home world. He made it so Sith couldn’t be force ghost etc etc etc. People forget that George Lucas made the Clone Wars happen and he was heavily involved (more so than anyone else) being the highest up for each episode. They literally had to bring everything to him and make sure he was oki with it. (Except for season 7) Also uh Jango is a mandalorian it was confirmed that he was a foundling in The Mandalorian season 2 if you decode boba’s armor code thingy. It says foundling of Jaster or something like that. (Again that was George not Dave that wanted Jango to not be a mandalorian). The only Critique he gives that isn’t George is the Bad Batch one. That’s it. Because Clone wars wasn’t “Dave’s show” it was George’s show. George was the main creative lead and approved every episode.
In a age of Disney sequels, Filoni does look like a god among men.
Because he is the cleanest shirt in the dirty pile at lucasfilm so all of a sudden he looks really good
@@nerd7834 well yes I see but modern Star wars fans would never admit that that maybe some of it was George Lucas's fault since they want him back now
This aged well.
This became so much more relevant after the Ahsoka show dropped.
I’m glad someone is finally willing to call Dave Filoni out
The dude ripped off both the logo AND the series title for Tales of the Jedi, and yet never once mentioned Tom Veitch, even though he DIED earlier in the year. And then casual fans like Mike Zeroh and the Lore Star have the nerve to try and claim the dude is "saving" Legends? LMAO.
@@saberiandream316
RIP Tom
Mike is a fraud who's predicted everything wrong. How anyone listens to him is beyond me
@@saberiandream316Saving legends from what lol?
@@rtixboi4193 From Kennedy or Disney.
@@saberiandream316 What threat do they pose?
Given the current situation with Star Wars canon, I'd say this video has aged well so far.
Yeah, look how Filoni pissed all over Tom Veitch's grave and defiled Tales of the Jedi.
I've been a fan of the old EU games, books, and comics since before Episode 3 even came out, and I get so frustrated with people telling me that everything Dave Filoni touches is automatically the best Star Wars that exists, especially when those same people refuse to acknowledge how deep, rich, and utterly compelling the old Canon is. Frankly, Mr. Filoni butchered Mandalorians, has no understanding of who Boba Fett is as a character outside of his Introduction episode, and seems to make random choices that contradict old Canon, more often than not for the worse. People like what people like, and there is no denying that whatever Dave Filoni does is going to be popular and considered masterclass, all because people can't be bothered to read, and see just how good star wars can really be. Brings a tear to my eye.
Filoni ruined essentially all bad guys in star wars bar vader, palpatine and arguably assajj ventress. How you manage to its beyond me
@@michelecastellotti9172 Maybe not ruined them, with the exception of Boba Fett, but he clearly doesn't understand them. He likes telling stories about the good guys making hard choices, and that's his strength, but your hero is only as good as your villain, and most of these guys are in the middle in terms of quality. Palpatine is fantastic in this show, to be fair, until he starts flipping around with a lightsaber. That was goofy in the movies too though, can't pin that on this show.
@@TrueKilljoy and i am fine with that, i like palpatine just schooling maul and opress, its cool and re-establishes how strong he is, tho i think that just having him dodjing every attack without needing sabers to beat them would've been more in line.
@@michelecastellotti9172 Exactly, he never needed sabers. In return of the jedi he was so badass he overpowered Luke in a way even Vader couldn't, and he didn't need a lightsaber to do it, they were beneath him. That's why he's so badass lol
@@TrueKilljoy yeah... but for fuck sake, he treated grievous like a joke. I get what george wanted from grievous, but there is a reason why EVERYBODY AND THEIR MOTHERS in the fandom loved the one from 2003, his backstory, motivations, skills and achievements made him in such a badass.
Karen Travis put her heel pretty frequently to the canon. But she was still the mother of the mandalorian culture. Which Disney has done nothing but spat on
I always find it funny how The Mandalorian show keeps slowly stealing from Travis' mandalorians, or how Din Djarin is a very transparent knockoff of Jango Fett backstory + Boba Fett's personality and characterization.
@Jean-Paul-Lane-Valley i wonder myself how much of it is Filoni and Traviss's grudge showing its teeth again as he trys to scribble over the top of her work. Or a legitimate copyright issue where they cant speak mando'a or use mand'alor Boba other people wrote, cause then they would have to pay their legends authors. So they invent this darksaber nonsense and a jango look a like (that just happens to have Jangos backstory with none of its charm or Jaster) to route around it?
Disney? You forgot how Lucas wanted them to be written?
@ChangedMyNameFinally69 maybe im having a brain moment, but what version of them are your thinking off?
@@jim-bob3093 The pacifists in Clone Wars
Another example is the case with Yoda's lightsaber. It was destroyed as shown in the post Revenge of the Sith Darth Vader comic. But now it's shown to be in Luke's possesion in the Book of Boba Fett.
Movies and shows are more canon than novels and comics. So if a movie or show contradicts a comic I’ll go with what it says
it’s possible that yoda had a spare on or that luke found the remains of the original and rebuilt it
@@tediousgreat it was literally melted down in a giant furnace. They just retconned it like a bunch of shit has annoyingly been.
@@jman72898 well in a comic yoda did have one on Dagobah.
I saw this one comment on another video that said something along the lines of how Yoda went to Ilum so many times to get younglings there lightsabers. Who's to say he didn't hear the call of the force asking him to get another one? They could also kind of use this little detail to add more detail to Yoda knowing Grogu and the force wanting Grogu to have the choice between the Jedi Path, and the way of The Mandalorian.
I think the biggest problem with Filoni is that he thinks he can pull off cowboy hats.
This. He cant. He looks ridiculous.
At least he doesn't have shirt with: "The force is cowboy 🤠"
@@csibesz07 The force is redneck and it has Vader in Confederate colors
Filoni is great at telling side stories with his own characters. Just keep him away from writing the regular main storylines. He's also annoying in showing the slightest of cameos, but overall villains still get the idiot ball. Not sure if Disney or him is to blame for that. Also, his idea of smart hero characters have them doing questionable things, like faking surrender. Not sure how responsible he is for the shrinking of the universe.
Honestly, maybe he should just make his own franchise and stories instead of trampling and shitty on other peoples'? XD
Do you think the helicopter sabers were his idea?
@@SirBlackReeds 100% That totally sounds like some dumb shit he'd either come up with, or approve to have in the show. XD
@@SirBlackReeds yes. He is all about the kewl set pieces
So you guys want Katelyn Kennedy to be fully in charge?
I am a very casual Star Wars fan, but sat through this whole video, which I found very interesting. I had not realized the extent of Filoni's involvement nor his arrogance at not wanting to feel restricted by the lore.
As an LOTR fan, I agree with what you said about how lore matters. I completely understand your frustration at casual fans saying, "Oh who cares. I don't know about that stuff anyway." As if it just weren't important!
The amount of people trying to convince themselves that the sequel trilogy was actually really good astonishes me. Ditto for "Ahsoka."
"At least we're getting more stories set in the universe we love" is something I only heard rarely during the reign of Rings of Power LMAO.
Thanks for the video!
Honestly, no matter what else Filoni does, I'll never get over the "pacifist" Mandalorians.
His dipshit fans try to claim that was Lucas but that was Dave all day every day. He does not understand them or their culture.
wouldve been interesting if obi wan had a hot warrior mando gf
@The One Who Knocks there's a real difference between some Mandalorians not wanting to be soldiers/bounty hunters and the entire society becoming avowed pacifists. One is an interesting moral choice, and one is a complete, inexplicable 180 from all previous understanding.
@The One Who Knocks I'm not opposed to a pacifist tribe/faction/region/splinter group. What I'm opposed to is the hype that was "We're putting the Mandalorians on screen for the first time" and then Satine and the pacifists being presented as The Mandalorians with no history or explanation.
@The One Who Knocks The problem is, all the "explanation" that's being done now is happening 12 years AFTER "Mandalore Plot" aired in 2010. I have much less of a problem with Satine and her crew now (1, because I'm older and less irrationally obsessed with TV. 2, because of the new context added). It just seems like they're trying to fix a mistake now with 12 years of backfilling an explanation rather than just start in 2010 by telling a story that fit with the then-existing narrative.
Imagine being one of those poor writers, pouring their souls into a Star Wars book, only for Dave to be like "eeeeh... but I want that character to die here for no particular reason" and screw up everything, basically removing your books from the canon despite it being literally unnecessary.
Dave Filoni is meh
He always had zero respect for the lore. He's one of those "I don't want rules to limit my art" hack writer types. Filoni is overrated af.
He had zero respect for the lore the moment he introduced inhibitor chips into the canon@@nicolasacosta1673
Filoni will contradict Filoni. I don’t think he cares about canon even if it was established by himself. He didn’t establish any Mandalorian rule about how a light saber is passed when Sabine passed the Dark Saber to Bo. But in Mandalorian, all of a sudden, Bo has an issue being passed the Dark Saber by Gin….for whatever the hell that is.
Also, in Rebels, I recall Rex explaining how resisted the urge of the chip to kill his Commanders during Order 66. But during the final season of Clone Wars, he didn’t do anything and had to be subdued by Ahsoka and she had to take it out.
So yeah, basically Filoni has a limited detail and what he says is canon….until it isn’t.
Wait a minute, if Filoni "didn't like being inside a box" and didn't want to "have more restrictions then he already did" why didn't he just, ya know, make his own original IP? I mean he clearly can tell an interesting story that if I had to guess, millions of people really enjoy, couldn't he have done that but with his own universe and characters? It's easy to take preexisting lore, characters, and a universe and make a story with it because all the busy work is done, but creating a universe from scratch and telling a story from it is for more difficult a task to do, but if he did that he would have NO restrictions at all other than his own imagination and wouldn't be stepping on toes. He could even have kept the entire overarching storyline of the Clone Wars and his many Disney+ shows but just use different names for stuff. But to give the credit, he did make Star Wars pop off again, I just feel like contradictions could have been lessened. I know a decent amount of the EU lore, enough to be familiar with the big events and important things, but not enough to say I know what I'm talking about for that tier, really what I know best are the movies themselves. The don't bother me too much however, I just like a good story at the end of the day.
Because he's a lazy brat and he's proud of that.
It´s easier to piggyback on a success of something which is already well-known and loved then to start from the beginning.
Most people who say they “don’t like being put in a box creatively” are either or all of the above. Not actually creative because being truly creative is making something wonderful with restrictions (which not surprising makes the best works of art) 2. Have a strong narcissist traits or huge egos when it comes to their art. They want to do what they want, they think everything they do is the best and everyone before is just “garbage” and they can correct it. But they are laughable hypocrites because if some retcon their art it’s horrible atrocious but when they do it they are the savior. Everyone knows anyone who says in the art industry are not professional, usually not as good as they say they are and are horrible people to work will. It’s a big red flag in the industry.
So this is how canon dies, with thunderous applause.
In Dave's defense: Didn't George propose Ahsoka and then Maul's return? Didn't Dave initially express trepidation at both suggestions? Wasn't it even George who wanted the Mandos in CW to be pacifist?
But also, it's kinda an unenviable task, no? Having to sift through all this material from different, uncoordinated creators; abide by the 'rules' of George's vision that only he knows as thoroughly as he does; and at the same time sustain a long-term vision that goes beyond both. And he has to balance them all while trying to appease as many as possible, regardless of how different their respective wants, expectations and visions might be.
Like, even if you sift through Tolkien's manuscripts, as unparalleled a world-builder as he was, there's still changes here and there as he's trying to figure things out. And that's just one guy working in a literary medium whereas Dave's gotta mediate all these different visions and worry about the huge task of running multi-million dollar productions involving dozens/hundreds of people around the world at the same time.
No. George wanted Ahsoka dead. Dave Filoni wanted her alive there is even an interview with Dave that supports this
@@peterparker1683 yes that's correct on Lucas wanting Ahsoka dead. Tho the rest is true from the original poster.
@@jrv7346 it actually isn’t. Contrary to popular belief the EU was consistent for the most part and did not have glaring contradictions pre-TCW. If there was a contradiction then it would be written away within the next comic or novel. TCW then comes out and everything that the EU built up was torn down. Hell the shit even contradicted on the very concept of the Jango Fett Clones that was established in the movies
Exactly. TCW was Lucas' baby, up until season 5, he had direct control.
@@HolyknightVader999 it should've been aborted
This aged so well
What? What just happened in the last month?
What happened!?
The Kanan comic scene of Order 66 was really good. The rapid change from friendly post-battle bonding between fellow comrades in arms (where they exchange jokes and discuss personal convictions) to Order 66 really captured the weight of the betrayal. The clones from professing undying loyalty to Bilabba to suddenly caring not for their lives in trying to kill her. The transformation from individual clones worth personality to emotionless death squads that are killing their friends (some may even be considered sibling or even parent figures) is really what hits me the most with Order 66. That’s what I’m getting when first encountering that scene.
Now, it just doesn’t have that much weight. Kanan’s survival from the initial attack was now also made not just by him following his master’s orders (something he even himself felt guilty of, as he even view it as an excuse for his cowardice then), but also by random clones that he at the time probably has no business trusting. It just feels weird.
Yes to all of this!! The Kanan comic is way more impactful than what was shown on The Bad Batch!
Look how he stole the name and the logo for Tales of the Jedi, yet not one peep given to Tom Veitch, who died earlier in the year. That's just wrong. And yet people still wanna worship him as a selfless and infallible demigod among mortal men? LOL. People can be so delusional.
fine wine FINE WINE
I think you forgot to mention that Boba’s return in The Mandalorian cemented Jango Fett as a Foundling, and Almec as a liar.
That's damage control, honestly. George never wanted Boba or Jango to be mandalorians, but honestly, they made a very fitting retcon there.
What I don't understand is why these creatives have to "tell their story" when there is no such expectation when adapting novels into movies. Imagine someone saying that operating within the strictures of an adaptation is a box around one's creativity (e.g. Steven King, Tolkien, or GRR Martin)? It's just simple irresponsibility.
It's like thinking that you can bring back Cedric Diggory with some complicated ritual magic halfway through Order of the Phoenix. You're breaking a core part of the rules of the verse you're writing for! SMH
They "tell their story" because that's what they're really there to do. Whether it's for money, ego, or a lack of confidence in their own writing... They can only make it by leeching off an established franchise like parasites, sucking the life out of a beloved world in order to feed their fanfiction.
If they were intelligent and passionate in the first place, they'd have realized "their story" doesn't fit into the existing canon and would either write it as their own original IP, or post it to a fanfiction site. Unfortunately, that isn't what happens.
I've unironically read dozens of fanfictions that are better written than the garbage that Disney Lucasfilm calls "canon".
The Clone Wars Multimedia Project will always remain the true story of what happened during the Clone Wars to me. I don’t think TCW is a bad show, but I feel that the CWMMP is more consistent with the films. The CWMMP and the Prequel Trilogy feel set in the same universe, while the Prequel Trilogy and TCW seem set in two different universes, especially because of Anakin’s characterization and Ahsoka’s existence, which is never mentioned in the films, as well as Darth Maul's resurrection. I'm a huge fan of the Prequel Trilogy, so I tend to prefer the old stories written during the making of the Trilogy itself (1999-2005), as they feel more authentic and really feel set in the same universe as the Prequel Trilogy itself.
I think that TCW should be removed completely from the Expanded Universe/Legends continuity and moved entirely (along with the related novels, comics and video games) within the New Canon. The Old Canon novels that contain TCW references (such as Darth Plagueis or Kenobi) should be reprinted by removing those references.
Agreed, though the reference in Darth Plagueis is pretty small. The idea of a Nightsister leader named Talzin existing during the Prequel era doesn't contradict Legends in isolation.
Hard disagree with the last 2 since they’re 2 of my favourite books (Plagueis especially actually is in my top 20 books of all time period) and I’m doing what you’re doing but considering them apart of my canon along with TCW show ahaha. But yeah I’ve got nothing to worry about there obviously because they’d never do that and considering the time frame they were written in and how easy it fits it’d be much more likely and better if they were brought into the “canon” officially. But even if people wanted it how you proposed and it was something they were doing, I don’t think it’d be right to take stuff out of those books that the authors specifically put into them because they envisioned it apart of George’s universe and both authors very much liked Filoni and TCW approach and went on to write some amazing “canon” books for Disney. It was always intended to be apart of TCW canon and I think it’d be wrong to go against that and just not true or in line with the authorial intent.
And yeah I can understand your whole perspective though do disagree with how heavily involved Lucas was in TCW tv show and how many of what happened were his concepts. I’m a firm believe in G canon and do prioritise whatever the creator was involved in above all else
@@protector_of_the_realms Well, George isn't involved now, so anything goes, but Disney is too damn safe. No new Legends, no new movies since 2019, and the Filoniverse shit is all we have now, sigh... I do miss the days when George was in charge.
@@ltb1345
What does contradict Legends however is Maul's species being on Dathomir and Talzin having him. In Legends Maul was from an entirely different planet and was picked up by Palpatine when he was a young orphan
@@ManiacMayhem7256 The Nightbrothers go against the whole concept of Dathomir culture, which is that it's a matriarchy.
Finally, someone said it. Jango Fett's story and Open Seasons was one of my favorite stories (and favorite characters). Partial to that particular story aside, what gets me with everyone praising Filoni is that he almost never comes up with anything purely original. I bring up Open Seasons, because the Mandalorian sub-plot is probably his most successful and pulls much from this particular story, which he butchers, makes his own, and people say this is peak Star Wars, Filoni be praised. The few things he ever wrote unassisted by previously established expanded universe, nostalgia, or direct media reference have ever been that popular. The Clone Wars show was only ever ok to me and Filoni, very meh.
Filoni rips the lore he touches into pieces to feed his selfish ego. And now he's coming for Heir to the Empire, God help us all...
FINALLY SOMEONE SAYS IT! Din Djarrin steals and simplifies the Open Seasons Jango Fett backstory and, on top of that, he took Boba Fett's entire characterization and personality and gave it to his OC. It was probably awkward when they had to make a Boba Fett show when they actually did one already.
20:25 After episode 2 of Kenobi this has aged like fine wine
Ong god
How about Mandalorian Season 3?
People think Prime Minister Almec, an extremely corrupt politicians opinion on Jango a person he never met or knew beyond reputation was the truth has never made sense to me
Exactly, he’s a politician, he’s not going to admit that jango fett is a mandalorian that would be damn near political suicide.
This
Why would he ever say “lmao he’s totally a Mandalorian, I see him like twice a week”
Especially when Almec himself is involved in incredibly corrupt and dubious black market duels
Stop it with your headcanons.
@@FMK03 “stop it with your headcanons”
I mean it’s really not, Boba is confirmedly a Mandalorian even if he’s not recognised as one
"While Dave Filoni was out resurrecting Darth Maul and giving Anakin his own Padawan. He was also directly contradicting a great deal of the extended universe lore".
With all due respect, aren't you attributing to him what should be attributed to George Lucas?
Dave Filoni at that time was just some guy who George hired from Avatar to be his Lead Animator and Supervising Director on Clone Wars.
Dave Filoni wrote the episodes in which the Ahsoka book, Yoda's lightsaber's demise, and Kanan's experience of Order 66 are contradicted/ret-coned and turned into a shittier version. So Dave has ruined that as well.
ruclips.net/video/Ve9LHiMK_3o/видео.html
I was shocked at how inaccurate the information in this video was concerning things Fave actually did, George created the show and was the ultimate creative lead he had to approve of what went down.
@@rasul01 Siege of Mandalore's adaptation is way better in the show than in the book imo
@@WildWeavile I disagree. The version in the show was a bit nonsensical. Maul lost to Ahsoka like a drunken idiot, and Rex didn't bother taking out his inhibitor chip despite his suspicions after Fives. Plus, Rex attacking Ahsoka contradicts what he said to Kanan in Rebels, which was that he never attacked his General. The book was far more consistent.
When Disney took Star Wars from us, and destroyed the eu ,they told us it was contradictory, and they promised us order. I love that that promise is now being broken, and I hope the new canon descends into complete anarchy.
Filoni himself participated in those lies, and nobody calls him out over it... I've never seen it any worse for Star Wars.
Excellent video. TCW is the media that brought me into star wars but once I delved into some of the EU i started to feel sad due to the wasted potential of TCW contradicting the EU, the whole story of Grievous being the saddest example.
I just started to feel the same like you once I saw all the videos of Captain Fordo regarding TCW and the continuity.
Yes, and it's a two-way street. Filoni groupies like to deflect the blame all onto George Lucas to defend their overrated cowboy because the Disney alternative scares them more, but at the end of the day, the MOST you can do is sorta half it. Filoni sure AF does not care about continuity and operating within an established framework, just look what he's doing in the new canon now. Balderdash.
As a Star Wars fan, my loyalty is to the good storytelling and satisfying character development, not to any individual creator. I’ll give the creators their praise when it’s due, just like I’ll roast them when they screw up. But I don’t feel that any of them deserves blind loyalty.
My allegiance is to the republic...TO DEMOCRACY!
@@awesomedudesinc “If you’re not with me… then you’re my enemy…”
Exactly.
@@damiandarc8643 Only a Bith deals in absolutes
@@moscanaveia I shall do it I must
“If left unchecked, Dave will screw up the Disney continuity too”??? Like, he has from day 1. Disney “continuity” hasn’t been consistent since it started.
Yeah, sometimes I don't like to be constrained within a box either. Which is why I don't write fan-fiction like Davey Boy here. If I have to write in an established IP you can bet your ass I'm going to do my damndest to fit within what's been established. Working within constraints is something a good writer is absolutely capable of. (Especially when they have the advantage of a guy whose job it is to keep track of what those constraints are) Blowing up the box is a sure sign of a lack of confidence.
I keep telling people Filoni hates the EU and wants to take over star wars
I don't like the fact that Dave Filoni gets a pass for overwriting canon simply because he makes stories that most fans love. JJ Abrams was appropriately given flack for overwriting canon, but that was only because people hated Rise of Skywalker. The choice to decanonize/discontinue a story is scummy, regardless of the quality of what takes its place. Yes, that goes for bad stories, like Aftermath, which was retconned in Mandalorian Season 2 with the events involving Cobb Vanth. Because a story will mean something to someone, whether you like it or not. And it's selfish to take it away.
I don't give him a pass. Clone Wars 2003 is my canon.
there is plenty of content much better that is no longer canon because it would contradict new storys. Im for retconning the worst of the worst
I live by a rule, you should never change the stablished lore ... BUT if you ever did it, you BETTER make it better!
Dave has done some things better, in an age where the standard is Jar Jar Abrams and Dumbass Johnson, Dave looks better and better.
Agreed.
@@aesir1ases64 Filoni has NEVER made Legends better, he's made it worse.
As much as I love The Clone Wars,
I will never accept the inhibitor chips. (Why build 5 seasons of emotions just to suppress them at the climax.) Also the fact that he retconned the kaminoan rebellion. This man cannot accept that clones are not good guys at their core...
Without the inhibitor chips, Order 66 to the clone troopers is just the equivalent of putting your pet down
@@KaminoKatie No, it's WITH the chips that is the equivalent of putting your pet down. Without the chips, emotions were going all over the place, with chips they are just suppressed..
@@Cipher_Nine So how then do you explain order 66? Without the inhibitor chip, there is no way for order 66 to make sense. The clones aren't going to suddenly turn on all the Jedi, they've been fighting by their side for years, and there is mutual respect between Jedi and clones. Some Jedi even wore clone armor as a symbol of solidarity and brotherhood with the troopers.
As an aside: the chip doesn't deny the clones emotions, it just overrides their will. That's what makes it work. Rex is about to kill Ahsoka, even though we know he respects her so much his unit painted their helmets with her face (and this is after she is no longer his CO), and he can't stop himself, even though he clearly doesn't want to hurt her. It's like Bucky beating up Cap at the end of Winter Soldier : Bucky is beating the shit out of Cap, but he clearly is desperately trying to break the programming that denies him control.
@@theogoltzman5372 yes it does make sense. As I said previously, the Clones were instructed for 10 years to obbey Palpatine first above all.
Secondly, The TV show focused on the battalions where the Jedi-Clone relationship was good (104th, 212th, 501st). The show did not show the ugly side of war where Leadership was problematic, where Clones is leadership positions would not agree with Jedi who were not capable of leading, leading in a lot of clone casualties and low morale. These clones would without hesitation gun down their Jedi when the order was issued
For the battalions that had a good relationship with their Jedi :
Despite their relationships, they answered the to hierarchy, like they've been thought. They had to painfully execute the order. Some of them, like the 327th felt so bad about doing it that they kept shooting Aayla Secura to make sure she was dead as quick as possible so she wouldn't feel pain.
Some clones helped their Jedi escape, there was an instance of a Clone Commando who got a Jedi pregnant, he turned on his fellow and helped her escape. When you have no chip, it adds more probability of it going either way.
"They grow so loyal to the Republic, or they don't grow up at all." -Clone Alpha 17.
Chips just make it childish like when Lucas made Han shoot first. Like "oh look Han is a good guy he had no choice."
@@Cipher_Nine I see what you're saying, and there is some merit to it, but it still doesn't quite land to me, largely due to the practical impossibilities. For one, Order 66 was a secret the Jedi never knew about, and they would have known if it was in the mind of every clone in an obvious way, or was somewhere in the standard order book of the GAR. The chips cover this since its a code phrase only a few Kaminoan scientists working on the chip even knew existed, explaining why nobody knew anything until it happened.
Also, why would the clones instructed to obey Palpatine with special intensity? Would this not seem odd to Shaak-ti, who lived on Kamino for the duration of the war? Palpatine is the chancellor, so of course they obey him, as they answer ultimately to the senate, and thus as a practical matter, to the office of the chancellor. But almost every clone except his immediate guard detail (when they replace senate guards) and the squadron that secured his quarters during the Cad Bane Hostage Crisis will never meet him, much less be in a position to be given an order by him. I would argue the clones would be more likely to reflexively obey their Jedi officers, who they served in combat with, and whom they've therefore learned to obey without hesitation (because hesitation gets you killed). Even if they were, their subsequent experiences make it unlikely they could be trusted to turn on the Jedi.
That said, I wish there was a third option that worked better. I really like giving clones the agency to choose, like in Bad Batch where crosshair has his chip removed but remains loyal to the empire. The issue is giving them that agency makes Sidious's plan a practical impossibility.
I was blind to Dave disregarding what came before until the Ahsoka show. As one example Sabine is COMPLETELY different. It’s like she is a totally different character now. She was a better fighter when rebels started then when Ahsoka started!
I agree with your points, but I need to clarify something.
Most of the major story decisions in TCW were Lucas' idea (Dave himself has said this). Ahsoka being Anakin's padawan, Maul's resurrection, the name change to the Sith homeworld, Jango no longer being Mandalorean, etc? All Lucas. Sadly, Dave Filoni gets too much credit as well as too much blame.
What Dave should get flack for is his over reliance on his pet characters and his refusal to let any of them go. That Ahsoka is around past ROTJ is ridiculous.
Thing is not every idea in TCW came straight from George and it’s hard to automatically trust Feloni’s word. Also even if this was the case, it doesn’t change the retcons Feloni himself made.
Why is it ridiculous
@@countof3everybodyOD there are too many Jedi around as is. And don't give me that "she's technically not a Jedi" nonsense since she basically embodies the Jedi ideal at this point.
@@gundamleviathan5760 why are there too many Jedi? Why wouldn’t her not being a Jedi matter?
I remember when filoni used to be seen as the hero of Star Wars and one who would defeat the foul Kennedy, then the fandumb menace changed their tune and decided he was always this foul villain of the franchise for giving them exactly as they asked for: slop. God I’m so glad I left the fandom 😂
So your response is to…bully and stereotype _Star Wars_ fans by calling them names and acting as though every one of them is part of a hive mind that thinks the same. Tell me: If you are not a part of this fandom, then why are you commenting on this video?
It's amazing to see people handed gold and they turn it into lead.
And then get praised for it like Filoni does.
He also undermined the EU lore, HIS decision, and used George's talking points to justify why and thus in the process diluted lore. It's no wonder he looks up to Rian Johnson. Dave Filoni paved the way.
artists being able to create the art they want is good actually; they shouldn't be restricted by a bazillion badly written comics spanning decades. The whole concept of "cannon" is just some corporate commercialised monkey making tactic. honestly people like you and this whole nerd culture is so antithetical to anything George lucas and the orginal star wars valued.
@@MistaAnonymous Exactly, just have your own head canon and call it a day.
@@MistaAnonymous Canon is definitely important to a story
No. Lucas was the driving Force behind many of the decisions. Lucas perceived TCW as the valid continuation of the narrative, not the Expanded Universe.
@@jrobins5622 no it really isn't.
There are criticisms to be made of Dave, but I will give him credit for the way her handled Thrawn's fate in Rebels. I prefer it over him charting/exploring unknown space during the OT. As now it's not that Palpatine didn't recall Thrawn to aide against the Rebels, but that he couldn't.
But isn't he doing the same thing right now in Canon?
Palpatine always underestimates (with the exception of Yoda, he tries to flee before the fight), his opponents. It's not shocking that he didn't call Thrawn to fight the rebels.
Besides that, there were threats that were being addressed in the Unknown Regions, like the possibility of the Yuuzhan Vong invading the galaxy.
@@StevenZissimos I think so, but the end of Rebels insinuated that him and Ezra were stuck on the outer reaches of the galaxy and they were able to be located at some point after Endor, possibly Thrawn has returned and is part of a group of the Imperial remnant but he couldnt have been there for the climax of the war
I'm sorry, what? How exactly is getting grabbed by hentai tentacles and pulled into a hyperspace jump by physics-defying space whales better than him being sent to chart the unknown regions?
You lost me with "I think it's really cool that it resurrected Darth Maul." He was CUT IN HALF. He fell down a (virtually) BOTTOMLESS PIT. By all conventions of stage and screen, biological fact, and plausibility, THE DUDE IS DEAD. I liked his look. I wanted him to be around. But bringing him back in TCW was ridiculously implausible. I really don't care how much you, me, or anyone likes Maul. He was dead and gone. It's insulting that he was brought back. If Maul can come back from that, then anyone who ever dies in SW lore should come back at any time. It's ridiculous.
hate i guess idk lol
@@j-dawgboneyard6699 but also consider how easy it would have been to make Maul's brother, an actual brother or some other relative (regardless of blood), take his place in the series. You could do virtually every story arc that was done with Maul b/c the motivation to avenge himself on Kenobi and Palpatine remains the same. And in doing so, you don't utterly destroy the finality of the death of EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE STAR WARS GALAXY. It's just absurd.
After "resurrecting Maul," the crap they pulled with Reva and the Grand Inquisitor is child's play. I wouldn't be surprised if the Rebel Spy (sorry, didn't care what her name was; the actor who played the head Sand Snake in GoT) didn't survive the thermal detonator explosion because she actually threw it forward before it exploded, and she was shielded from the blast by the droid...and of course the seemingly mortal blaster wound in her gut missed all "vital organs." Will they do it in this season of Obi-wan Kenobi? eh. prolly not. season 2? another series? I can see the writer's brain churning now, "well let's see how the audience reacts to her. do they like her? do they want more from her like (apparently) they do Casian Andor? Ok! let's 'resurrect her'"! oye.
I mean come on, Anakin was burned to a crisped and still survived long enough for Palpatine to pick his well done ass up.
@@Lightning-gg5iu must have survived by way of Hayden's superior acting abilities. 😏 In seriousness though, it's not just a matter of plausibility. It's a matter of cinematic conventions and retconing. Like, I've talked Maul to death, but compare Maul to Vader in RotS and the Grand Inquisitor in Obi-Wan. In RotS, Anakin is alive and screaming. Sidious immediately takes a medical team and treats Anakin onscreen. The fact that Anakin survived and how it happened was built into the movie. Compare that to the Grand Inquisitor who gets the generic death blow through the gut, disappears for half the show then magically reappears with no explanation. And depending on viewers knowing his particular species has 2 stomachs or has to survive because Rebels is incredibly lazy writing and results in bad story telling. These facts (from the Rebels series) are necessary prerequisites for the Obi-Wan plot to make sense. If you're depending on your live action audience to read every EU comic, animation, etc. just to make sense of an essential plot point in your own series, then you're doing it wrong.
Well he is an alien and they can say literally all his vital parts other than his privates are in his upper body, but yeah.
I thought this would be about his blatant nostalgia baiting but I'm glad it wasn't and I learned that this guy really isn't what everyone thinks he is. It's even more egregious when you realize he doesn't respect other people's canon for no reason but will go out of his way to make his unfinished stuff canon and by the looks of it will act as if everyone already knew it happened (the unfinished cw cad bane vs boba fett episode and how their rivalry has not even set up outside of that and there's only 1 book of boba episode left)
Based
Understandable. But given the chance, would you not take that same chance? maybe not to that extent that you mentioned. But especially if you have a clear vision of your canon and everyone else's canon is outdated, incomplete, unofficial, old, or just plain bad.
Why does everyone think Book of Boba is a limited series?
@@badbunnysballs790 there's literally only one episode left. The show was poorly paced and wasted too much time on the Mandalorian (and even then not much at all happened in the Boba episodes)
@@broston_ I agree with that criticism but I couldn’t care less about Boba as a character so I don’t mind Mando stealing his spotlight.
Unpopular opinion but I do find the existence of Ahsoka pretty jarring. It's quite clear Anakin would be acting completely different or at least MENTION her during the events of RotS.
Bingo.
Yep, I always thought it was stupid to give Anakin an apprentice between Episode II and III.
On the contrary, Her leaving reinforces Anakin's instability, grief and desire to protect his loved ones at any cost.
Filoni really is a fraud, his version of Thrawn basically shows everything that is wrong with his writing.
13:00 in the Mandalorian, Boba confirms that it’s a lie. Almek lies a lot. He was probably lying to Obi-Wan
But IMO? TCW isn’t legends. I consider it’s VERY Disney canon tbh.
I guess there’s an “F” canon now
Thanks for the review. Much we I respect Dave Filoni's film work and contributions to Star Wars, he has this bad habit of contradicting other stories in both Legends and Canon. He doesn't seem to be a team player but wants to do what he wants.
And there lies his biggest flaw. He is NOT a team player and anything he does is defending why that's the case. Look at how often he invokes the appeal to authority fallacy to try and cloak himself in an aura of George's legacy, when the man left a decade ago and hasn't looked back since. Filoni is every Disney Star Wars to a T.
I can't express how grateful I am that you've made this video. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
Unfortunately, the Filoni groupies will keep clooming over that overrated cowboy until the end of time.
I assume the Lego Star Wars stuff, the Phineas and Ferb and Family Guy specials and the Holiday Special are in the N-section of the Canon as well.
The tune has gotten worse with Ahsoka ending it's pathetic 8 episode run with nothing more than a whimper.
I never really bought into the theme a year ago of Filoni being the franchise’s Messiah-like, Filoni’s one of the best guys making official Star Wars stuff right now but he’s one dude and has his own limitations/weaknesses. The thing that always seemed to crop up with Filoni was that things always wind up going back to the Jedi/Sith conflict, most obviously when the Mandalorian went from being this nice little slice of galactic life series into, well, Jedi and Skywalkers and galactic stakes and all that other stuff.
Thing is, that kinda killed off the original appeal of the show, which was so appealing *because* it had small stakes and a looser main story, after the Sequels had basically poisoned any more large scale stories in the immediate term…By adding in the Big Guys into a smaller story, instead of making the universe seem larger and more impressive, makes Star Wars feel smaller and derivative.
I didn’t mind that with The Mandalorian, but what I did mind was interjecting that into Book of Boba Fett. That was a character that never really had anything to do with the Jedi/Sith. He was a bounty hunter with no contracts. He could’ve done anything. And instead, Filoni blew his load too early and dragged The Big Guys into that storyline. All because he noticed that they horribly ruined Boba Fett and couldn’t save him.
Don't get your hopes up for the Disney canon. Do what I do and avoid it. You'll never be disappointed that way.
I'm a fan of Filoni but do think a fair criticism video can be made of him. He's great but not perfect. But as others point out, a lot of the ideas in Clone Wars are Lucas'. The contribution Lucas gave to the genius of Clone Wars, is yet again overlooked. So just when you criticise Filoni, it's important to make sure it's actually him...
I think Filoni made his own decisions and used George to justify WHY he did that. If you read the older Insider articles, you'd understand more.
@@saberiandream316 In some of those as well, George still pointed out a lot of things. Like how the Clone Wars was originally supposed to not even be about Anakin and Obi-Wan but some other Jedi concept which finalized into Ahsoka until George came in and changed it. There’s even George saying himself. The EU was an alternate Universe to *his* Star Wars. His Star Wars was the movies, the Clone Wars TV show, and the stuff revolving around that. I’d say Filoni was a lot more surprised when George told him and the other Writers at the time to ditch all the Legends material they’ve grown so familiar with and create new stuff while salvaging old material. While yes it was Filoni who made these changes, it was more so him inclined to do it because of George’s vision, even if he had to do it at the behest of the other writers like Karen Traviss, which is, in the end really sad.
The Thrawn trilogy is fairly good and made sense to me. It seemed like an evolution of the results of the film trilogy.
What annoys me is Disney said at the beginning of the new canon that they would try to tell one concise story with little to no inconsistencies or retcons... turns out that was a fucking lie.
And Filoni participated in that lie. I remember when Eck made a video about this, and the Filoni groupies were in force insisting that he shouldn't feel "beholden" to licensed material, which would be a fairly convincing argument if FILONI _HIMSELF_ hadn't said nine years ago that would not be the case! He's a liar like everyone else who works there.
Genndy Tartakovsky made the better Clone Wars.
I know this is not the point but Moraband and Korraband isn’t necessarily a contradiction. It’s normal for a place to have different names due to language and culture
Moraband is a stupid ass name, sounds like a geriatric orchestra band.
Yeah, and Filoni neglects to mention that George's "involvement" boiled down to him pitching ideas. Makes you wonder WHY he chose the ideas that he did. There is not a single interview with George Lucas for the TCW featurettes, despite him appearing in the one for the earlier Clone Wars. Very few direct statements from George, he said he'd let his company go his own way, and they did. Given how candid the man is about unpopular story ideas, he wouldn't cower away from the truth if he had ANYWHERE _near_ the involvement Filoni defenders use to discredit George Lucas and prop up Filoni.
@@saberiandream316 I've been thinking the same for a long time now. And besides, all we have to go off of is current Lucasfilm leadership's word on it, and they've more than proven by now that they're not trustworthy. Where exactly is the hard evidence that George gave ideas for much of TCW? Because he was never a show runner in its production, he doesn't even have a single writing credit attributed to him.
But even assuming that he was really that involved, the way I see it, George's word matters most where it comes to the six films. In everything else, his input is valuable, but ultimately, it's the other writers who are crafting the story around the six-film saga, and their input is the EU equivalent of George's vision for his movies, so long as they don't retcon anything in the cinematic saga.
I miss the days when writers respected each other's work enough to keep it all as consistent as possible under one timeline. Filoni doesn't understand the meaning of the word "continuity," even when it comes to his own work in Star Wars or Disney's, which he has already contradicted.
TCW doing Baris Offee so dirty was a sin I could never forgive
For my sanity somebody please tell me that they know of the dark horse comics run of star wars republic during the clone wars fucking loved that run honestly better than tcw even though I still like it.
The tone, character development, art, writing and stories themselves are just so well done man.
The duel on coruscant with anakin and ventress while vos is talking to the council is my personal favourite moment
Watching this after seeing your TCW video is wild
The biggest problem is that BIG GROSS smirk combined with that hat making him look like he's dreaming about playing piggyback with young boys shouting "YEEEEHAAWW"
His biggest problem is this that he wants to keep his waifu(Ahsoka) alive.
I also didn't like that he just copied Ahsoka from Starkiller and made Starkiller non canon.
Plus, He should have added general Kota to clone aars but he didn't and replaced that character with Kanan.
Still mad about what he did to mandalorians
What’s bad about that
@@omarbaba9892 Disney shill?
Omg. This video is so good! Thank you for doing this masterpiece!
I straight up just refuse to call the Sith home world anything except for Korriban.
my biggest gripe was his change to saber crystals. It was far more interesting when the colors were largely chosen by for ceremonial reasons not a result of the wielder. When sith used artificial crystals that were stronger and the jedi used weaker ones because they were highly traditional and saw them as unnatural and wrong. not because sith were so evil they make crystals 'bleed'
Highly disagree.
highly disagree.
Highly agree.
I absolutely hated that change.
Everything seems so much more....."Force focused", if that makes Sense.
Now all Crystals seem to be sentient and can "bleed".
How ridiculous!
Even the Death Star is now apparently powered by Lightsaber Crystals!
@@johannesseyfried7933 I like both. But i really like the mystical side in the connection between the lighsabers and his user. I don't see a problem here.
@@olunatico425 It's stupid as hell and removes any symbolism Jedi could have for their saber color like the Old EU had and the whole "mystical side" makes the force too damn much of a generic magical system found in DND. It was much better when there was a mixture of science and "magic" to still keep more of the Sci Fi feel.
Dave ruined grievous and a lot of other things
That was George
Didn’t George make the 2D clone wars non canon because he changed his mind about certain things in the ROTS script
@@everythingdibs344 there’s a bunch of toxic EU fans who literally ignore straight up facts of George wanting to change stuff and just place blame on Filoni
@@michaelleggo9318 I don’t really use the term “toxic” because it’s become as overused as the term “fake news” but yeah I generally agree with you other than the fact that it is not only EU fans but prequel purists too.
@@MattyPan118 All George did was pitch ideas. That's it. Filoni has admitted this.
3:05
I love the little ominous sting at the mention of how George can do whatever he wants with the canon. Very warranted.
He created it, after all
Honestly, I think that Lore inconsistencies should be dealt with like how historical inconsistencies are dealt with when looking at primary sources, look at the context and the bias of the source. This would work better for some than others, there's also the possibility of doing what Tolkien did with the inconsistencies of Gollum and the Ring.
You're confusing real life documents and folklore which creation we can't really trace to the new-era space fantasy stories that are literally summarized by fans on Wookiepedia, leave alone Lucasfilm notebooks. If someone messes up the latter, they didn't care about lore in the first place.
Another problem is that Dave uses cameos to fill time or to artificially inflate the interest in his stories.
He turned Star Wars into Cuckold Warriors.