A little bit too late after six years of negligence of the problems what resulted in a Facebook group of more than 10000 worried people. Now that the selling numbers are crashing they come with apologies. I got the letter also after I sold my 2021 with 30000 miles on it, but my confidence in the brand is reduced to zero. What they tell about only the 790 models isn’t true. Also 890 engines suffer of the problem, even some ‘23 models. My new Yamaha with the CP 2 engine and 5 years of warranty will do it in the future. Sorry, it was my third KTM, but it will be my last one.
I feel a deep empathy for people that had bike that that suffered these issues in earlier model years. I hope you'll get the issue sorted or compensated for. I've put 15,000 miles (25,000 km) on my 23' 890R in the last year with no issues. My trip last summer alone was 10,000 miles, camping off the bike for 4 months. I've ridden over many mountain ranges and deserts with her in the US and the bike has been amazing! Death Valley, jeep roads over the Rockies in Colorado, Baja Mexico and everything in between. I can't imagine having a bike as capable as this for the terrain that i've put it through. This is my first KTM. I had japanese bikes for the last 42 years. I know that there have been issues that KTM is finally addressing after much frustration. I just felt the need to add my voice that my bike has been mind blowingly amazing and that they are not all swiss cheese cams waiting to strand you somewhere, There have been a lot of loud voices, and maybe for good reason, considering their dissatisfaction from KTM's response to the very real issues with earlier models. But I hope that they will get past this issue as the bike is so uniquely capable of being such a great all round world traveler.
Think the reason for 1% bikes affected, is most have very low mileage. Should have been a total recall, and not have owners of these bikes stressed out. I for one who has owned many ktm bikes have been put off owning the brand again.
My 890 Adventure (22 model) has less than 3,000 careful miles and a full service history. Prior to expiry of the warranty I returned it to my local dealer to sort a cruise control fault (following the replacement of the fuel tank on which the plastic coating (yes, it has one!) was peeling off). Coincidentally, it was only staring on one cylinder then eventually the second would fire up. My excellent fuel consumption had worsened (I’m an anorak that notices things like that). I told the dealer that unless there was a specific cause identified I wanted a top end inspection to eliminate cam issues. They inspected and there is. The term “good will” was used but this would not apply inside warranty and with a clear issue to address should have been picked and dealt with long ago. My 890 was up for sale and an offer made that I couldn’t accept since my bike will be out of action for at least another 6 weeks (in addition to the 10 so far). KTM needs to do a lot better than this. Will my repairs be warranted? If so, for how long? Like many I’ve taken a huge value hit and lost faith in a bike that, thankfully, I didn’t ship to the US for a 4,200 mile ride in May/June this year. Who knows where it would have dumped me. In the event I rode (ironically) a 10,000 mile 690 Enduro for 23 days and it didn’t skip a beat.
Thank you for the update 👍 It doesn't matter if it's only 0.5% of bikes affected if you are one of the owners of the 0.5% and there was no assurance of support. It is great that that assurance has now finally been given. Too late for some though, including me. I have had 3 KTMs, no problem with any of them. But 1year into my 2:year warranty on an 890, I contacted my dealer with an enquiry relating to this issue two weeks ago. I asked what would happen if my bike developed this issue out of warranty if I had a full dealer service history. For the first time in five years of occasional communications, I received no reply. I therefore decided to change allegiance and traded in last week for another make. KTM's announcement is good news but too late for me and I will not be going back. I am glad for other existing owners; this announcement gives you peace of mind and protects your residual values.
@jonnay9221 : You owned 3 KTM’s had No problem with them and just the fact you didn’t get an answer to, a for you, (since you didn’t have any problem) hypothetical question, “what if”… Did you make ditch the brand all together incl negativity here on you tube…. Sounds lik a rather extreme and debatable decision to me… tbh..
I do not think I was being negative, I tried to be balanced and honest. Given you deem my hypothetical question was of no importance, it is strange then, that KTM has recently answered it by saying it will cover any (past and) future repairs associated with this issue (in or out of warranty period, providing service history can be demonstrated). That is the answer I was hoping for and maybe people like me asking dealerships questions in a polite and civilised way goes some way to helping achieve resolutions. Yes, I acted somewhat impetuously in changing bikes and I would not make the same decision now. To be clear on the positives - The dealer who could not answer my question at the time, could not have been better throughout all our dealings. The dealers were in a difficult position. Each of my 3 KTMs has been fantastic, including the 2023 890 Adventure I will trade in tomorrow to conclude the deal I made a little over two weeks ago. I rode it 200 miles today in storm winds. It is an amazing bike. I have only ridden one other bike in this class and it is hard to see how the 890 could be bettered all-round. The recent statement by KTM has changed the picture, protecting existing owners, prospective buyers and dealerships.
It's very difficult to win back disgruntled customers, and a bad reputation can be even harder to lose. Not sure why KTM went down the path they did. Sometimes management decisions can be difficult to understand.
So it looks like KTM are doing damage limitation which is good so people get repairs done. I am less convinced that they are telling the truth about the cause .It does seem to be a relatively small number but given that the costs for such failuers are so big it is good to see KTM stepping up
Small number 🤔 personally, if there is a design problem with this type of engine, every engine made will have this issue, Just boils down to how many miles it's covered and time actually riding it, I've seen that it's nothing to do with the actual hardness of the cam shafts it's to do with the oil supply. Oil isn't just a lubricant is cools at the same time. And the pictures I've seen there is a heat build up on some of the cam lobes. I think there will people with this engine in their bikes affected for many years to come as the milage increases. Will KTM honour those people I doubt it. Personally I think it should be a cross the board recall on every bike made with this engine. It's their cock up and why should the customer suffer.
@@John900Cand yet millions if not billions are pocketed by management board and excessive offices. They could easily do it if they had the right priorities...
it's not a small number, it's ALL of them, which, if actually recognized in a press release, will bankrupt any company, especially after the way they treated their customers so far.
Great to see them doing something . Its about time to put this one to bed . Biker power has brought this great result to a good conclusion . But there are going to be people that have lost huge amounts of cash that will not benefit from this which is unfortunate and very sad. Why does it take such a long painful drawn out effort to get these companies to bloody listen .Great conclusion but its taken far to long and caused so many people undue stress. 👍👍👍
I sold my 890R at 11500 klms, timing chain started to rattle its brains out at 7500 klms. I couldn't shut it up so sold the bike. Disappointed for sure. Now have an 1190 LC8 V Twin. No issues.
Yes!! Result. Thanks to all who have kicked up a fuss over this issue. KIM'S hand has been forced into dealing with the matter in an honourable way at last.
It masks the low oil pressure (20psi vs 50-60psi) to the head problem, too. The finger followers are also now wider as part of the recall. But as we say in Australia, you never take a KTM more than a days ride from a dealership. So its back to Suzuki, Honda and BMW for your Simpsons Desert crossing.
'Repair' isn't good enough...the engine has been corrupted with debris and needs replacing! And recalls are mandatory, issued via DVLA, and not dependent of a SFH. They are usually safety related.
Of course you hear more about bikes with problems, than about bike without any. But on the other hand ... a friend had the camshaft problem and had to fork out a lot of money for repair. So this problem was not just hearsay for me. Whatever solution was found later, after pressure got too big ... i have not heard yet, that they will call back all bikes of that series and fix the problem for good. My first concern about adventure bikes is reliability, not warranty or goodwill. It is not helping a single bit, that you will be reimbursed, if youre at the end of world and your bike is not running. I had KTMs in the past and rode them through the desert - but at the moment i would rather choose another brand. Especially in the current situation of KTM, as you can't be sure, if the can keep their promise in the long run.
Kudos to KTM for stepping up to the plate finally however they have taken far too long and really damaged their own reputation. Unfortunately once a manufacturer rightly or wrongly achieves such status sales will suffer. I’m sure KTM are seeing this in the showrooms as they appear to be struggling to shift heavily discounted 2023 bikes (8k for a 790 adv) Thanks for the feedback it’s great to know and I’ll update my neighbor who decided not to buy a 790 adventure due to this.
I wonder how many owners are yet to discover this issue as they only do small annual milage? I would hope ktm know which bikes are affected by there production logs and bikes vin numbers.
Small numbers or big numbers are irrelevant. Social media and KTM's slow response means the damage is done. Anyone who has home serviced or used independent servicing centres means their resale or trade value is now rubbish. A lot of people will be left with a very bad taste in their mouths.
All too often the case, a manufacturers sales start to suffer so they finally have no choice but to step up to the plate. At least they have had the good grace to say they have learned lessons. I have no doubt they would have allowed this 'insignificant' issue to go unaddressed if they thought they could get away with it. Happened to me years ago with a Nissan Navara (crank issue). They squirmed for as long as possible, then fessed up, but applied lots of conditions to thier goodwill repair offer. I have never been back to them and never will so I completely understand the comments from your subscribers who have lost trust in the KTM brand. I really hope for eveyone concerned that they are true to their word. Sadly i am not sure they will extend their goodwill to CF Moto owners though
KTM say the problem was due to narrow finger followers and/or oil ways blocked. KTM pride themselves for making high performance engines, maybe the cam profile was too aggressive and a larger surface area was needed on the follower, someone didn't work that out. With regards to the oil flow (my theory) is the cross drilling of the oil ways left swarf in the over drilled holes which broke free and blocked the oil jets, that's why some cam lobes are affected and not others, putting a filter before the cam oil feed will do nothing, poor quality control in Austria was the issue. Incidentally, how many miles is an Lc8c supposed to last?.
Just had my cams and followers replaced while getting valves adjusted at 19k kms. (2020 ktm adv r). The bike ran well and fairly problem free, but now I feel hesitant to take it out because I don’t want a catastrophic failure. But this issue is going to follow these engines into the resale market and prices will be low. Thanks KTM for making this engine a dud.
A sad tale this, and poorly handled by KTM, who will lose far more in bike sales than it would have cost them to cover their failures fully, from the first sign of trouble. Only to have to 'do the right thing' in the end, but now too late, with damage to their image already done. This was already 'tarnished' by their odd system of providing features on the bike which went redundant after a certain mileage, thereafter having to be paid for to restart. A lot of criticism of this. I would agree with those who suspect this cam issue relates more to oil supply than hardness, as this issue has affected many OHC models over the years, from the 750/4 Honda of fifty years ago, onwards. I worked on bikes for a living for many years from that time, and blockages/restrictions were invariably the cause. To achieve the oil pressure to the top end, many engines have restrictors (like tiny carb jets) in the gallery, and this is where the problems usually originate. There was mention of some mesh filtration in-line in the top-end oil feed of these KTM models, so I would be looking there. The addition of an extra gallery presumably halves, but does not completely eliminate, the chance of such a problem. A great shame for a previously well thought-of model, all of which will now be devalued for evermore.
Although it looks like ktm's mind set is heading in the right direction, I believe that the problems are greater than doing what they say will fix. It looks like newer bikers are affected, there appear to be basic quality problems regarding swarf in engines from new which will damage bores and bearings not being replaced under the scheme. Nothing less than newly redesigned and produced engines replacing the old engines will suffice. I think this has makings of a class action suit in the future.
I did comment earlier with a link to the Head of KTM USA, but it has disappeared. Anyway, he stated that all of the engines affected were made in Austria, not China. So this should be good news for CFmoto owners.
So in 2019 they became aware of many failures, they re-engineered the parts, then continued to blame owners and attempt to avoid taking ownership of any failures for 3 more years. Only a few failures....must be why cams were sold out for months on end around the world, our local supplier had just themselves 148 followers on back order while used cams were fetching new prices. My cams failed and I flat out don't trust KTM's numbers for a second.
Not sure about this it seems damage limitation - could they not be on the front foot to sort every bike that has this ticking time-bomb, if they have identified it as a design issue, rather than leaving it for a few owners down the line to find out, who will then face scrutiny over service history records (albeit they seem to suggest flexibility there), which could be tricky to prove, as modern KTMs don't come with a service book to stamp.
But is this a case of too little too late 🤔 they have been ducking it for a while, trying to minimise it and dismiss it as a minor issue, not so much if it's your bike which is affected 🤨
@@kevindarkstar I disagree about it being too little too late, also worth remembering that all big ships turn slowly, all. Destination matters more than journey.
Small amount they know about.Problem is plenty people may not know of their issue ,only way is to send in to be check.KTM will not carry that cost.they should recall all models and check.dont wait on client to complain.
the camshaft issue is just the cherry on the top, these bikes suffer from quality issues all around, not to mention that they required at least 2500EUR in maintenance each 2years/30000km even if everything works good, because KTM. btw, they have erased ALL the information regarding warranty claims from the online service report, good luck prooving you had problems with the bikes.
@thebingleywheeler then KTM must give every 790/890 owner a free CfMoto bike with similar specs. And then they must declare bankruptcy and leave the market because they don't care or know how to build a motorcycle.
This is Great news but well overdue by KTM. Love my 901 but was seriously thinking of selling it. Ps the back ground noise you had playing was a pain in arse 😂. Thanks for the update 👍
KTM is notorious for unreliable durability and engine/transmission components failures. I experienced this myself with transmission components failures at 10,000mi. KTM offered zero support. The machine was only 2 years old, the engine/transmission was Austrian made. Now I am seeing the Chinese made KTM units are just as problematic. I have decided not to buy a C F Moto and am going with the Royal Enfield 450 adv bike.
@@kevinnielsen1356 They didn’t design the KTM engines, they just manufacture them to the design provided and the quality/accuracy is determined by KTM engineers. In effect CF Moto are being tarred by their association with KTM. You said it yourself, their designs have issues wherever they are built. CF Moto now have to prove themselves ultra reliable in order to shrug off that image.
@@nockianlifter661 I was wrong. The KTM problem units where all made in Austria. My personal KTM issue was with a 2015 KTM 500exc. The output shaft splines prematurly wore out at 10.000mi, at 2 seasons of riding. KTM was of zero help, stating "That is high mileage for a dirt bike ". Strange statement considering I've owned Honda and Suzuki road legal dirt bikes for 3 times that mileage with no such problem. I've owned Honda, Yamaha and BMW chain drive bikes for 50,000mi with no such issues. My KTM was made in Austria but so was my BMW 650 GS that had 47000mi when I sold it with the output shaft splines at 100% still. I will never own KTM again not because of the part failure, but because of KTM's utter lack of customer support. The only reason KTM is responding on the camshaft issue is damage control. They do not care about the customer. I sincerely hope CF Moto bikes are reliable, but more importantly, the CF Moto shows respect for tier customers. Royal Enfield is committed to customer support and they will get my patronage.
@@kevinnielsen1356 All bikes run the risk of unreliability. Even Honda. I bought a Fantic 500 with a Zongshen manufactured motor. Everyone worried about reliability. It’s been faultless and fantastic fun, it’s been on green lanes and every kind of road, I’ve ragged it everywhere. Uses no oil, starts every time, no unusual noises, it’s as good as a Japanese bike in my opinion. I’d buy another one immediately if it was stolen or written off. I’ll take the risk on a CF Moto being just as reliable. It’s replacing a Yamaha Serrow which is just too compact for comfort now I’ve had some off road training. The new Himalayan was an option, but it’s more of a travel bike and a bit too top heavy when out on uneven ground. The other option was a KTM 300 EXC F - but huge money and I have to travel to the trails and that would be hard work. Pretty much leaves either the older Himalayan or the CF Moto as I don’t like the over priced Honda 300 thing.
Isn't your view of the core issue a fault with design of the cylinder head, ie, impeded oil flow to the jet that sprays the cam lobes? So isn't a new head design the real solution?? The wider fingers will spread the load including heat, but surely still just a matter of time for damage to occur to most cams??? Obviously providing owners with a new redesigned head would probably send them broke, but if I was an owner aware of your video on the real issue, I'd conclude that if I wanted to keep the bike, I may well need several new heads and camshafts over the life of the bike......
I understand there are many different scenarios owners have gone through and costs associated with this issue. KTM has become a successful brand by pushing the limits and producing amazing motorcycles. Obviously they missed something, this was obviously not intentional (I'm sure many people are looking for new jobs) but all they can do is fix it now and they have addressed it. If keyboard warriors continue to bash KTM, try to make it their goal in life to destroy their brand, they may very well succeed with it and leave us with one less choice on showroom floors. I could not afford a new KTM Adventure, I could afford a 2024 CF Moto 800 Ibex Explore (Ibex in Canada, MT for the rest of you fine folks) and hope one day KTM will be around when I am ready ...
So if they are extending the warrantee then do you feel you have bought a pig in a poke? Are you concerned on the reliability of the machine? How will this effect the residual value when it comes to trading or selling the machine?
no its not the same engine. Yes same family but different engine., the 790 engine is not the same as the 890 engine. Different valve sizes and bore and stroke.
A little bit too late after six years of negligence of the problems what resulted in a Facebook group of more than 10000 worried people. Now that the selling numbers are crashing they come with apologies. I got the letter also after I sold my 2021 with 30000 miles on it, but my confidence in the brand is reduced to zero. What they tell about only the 790 models isn’t true. Also 890 engines suffer of the problem, even some ‘23 models. My new Yamaha with the CP 2 engine and 5 years of warranty will do it in the future. Sorry, it was my third KTM, but it will be my last one.
I feel a deep empathy for people that had bike that that suffered these issues in earlier model years. I hope you'll get the issue sorted or compensated for.
I've put 15,000 miles (25,000 km) on my 23' 890R in the last year with no issues. My trip last summer alone was 10,000 miles, camping off the bike for 4 months. I've ridden over many mountain ranges and deserts with her in the US and the bike has been amazing! Death Valley, jeep roads over the Rockies in Colorado, Baja Mexico and everything in between. I can't imagine having a bike as capable as this for the terrain that i've put it through. This is my first KTM. I had japanese bikes for the last 42 years. I know that there have been issues that KTM is finally addressing after much frustration. I just felt the need to add my voice that my bike has been mind blowingly amazing and that they are not all swiss cheese cams waiting to strand you somewhere, There have been a lot of loud voices, and maybe for good reason, considering their dissatisfaction from KTM's response to the very real issues with earlier models. But I hope that they will get past this issue as the bike is so uniquely capable of being such a great all round world traveler.
Think the reason for 1% bikes affected, is most have very low mileage. Should have been a total recall, and not have owners of these bikes stressed out. I for one who has owned many ktm bikes have been put off owning the brand again.
My 890 Adventure (22 model) has less than 3,000 careful miles and a full service history. Prior to expiry of the warranty I returned it to my local dealer to sort a cruise control fault (following the replacement of the fuel tank on which the plastic coating (yes, it has one!) was peeling off). Coincidentally, it was only staring on one cylinder then eventually the second would fire up. My excellent fuel consumption had worsened (I’m an anorak that notices things like that). I told the dealer that unless there was a specific cause identified I wanted a top end inspection to eliminate cam issues. They inspected and there is. The term “good will” was used but this would not apply inside warranty and with a clear issue to address should have been picked and dealt with long ago. My 890 was up for sale and an offer made that I couldn’t accept since my bike will be out of action for at least another 6 weeks (in addition to the 10 so far). KTM needs to do a lot better than this. Will my repairs be warranted? If so, for how long? Like many I’ve taken a huge value hit and lost faith in a bike that, thankfully, I didn’t ship to the US for a 4,200 mile ride in May/June this year. Who knows where it would have dumped me. In the event I rode (ironically) a 10,000 mile 690 Enduro for 23 days and it didn’t skip a beat.
vote with your wallet! never buy a KTM (or relatives) again.
@ For sure!
Thank you for the update 👍
It doesn't matter if it's only 0.5% of bikes affected if you are one of the owners of the 0.5% and there was no assurance of support. It is great that that assurance has now finally been given. Too late for some though, including me. I have had 3 KTMs, no problem with any of them. But 1year into my 2:year warranty on an 890, I contacted my dealer with an enquiry relating to this issue two weeks ago. I asked what would happen if my bike developed this issue out of warranty if I had a full dealer service history. For the first time in five years of occasional communications, I received no reply. I therefore decided to change allegiance and traded in last week for another make. KTM's announcement is good news but too late for me and I will not be going back. I am glad for other existing owners; this announcement gives you peace of mind and protects your residual values.
Good post. I am on my second KTM. Both 100 per cent reliable.
@jonnay9221 : You owned 3 KTM’s had No problem with them and just the fact you didn’t get an answer to, a for you, (since you didn’t have any problem) hypothetical question, “what if”… Did you make ditch the brand all together incl negativity here on you tube…. Sounds lik a rather extreme and debatable decision to me… tbh..
I do not think I was being negative, I tried to be balanced and honest. Given you deem my hypothetical question was of no importance, it is strange then, that KTM has recently answered it by saying it will cover any (past and) future repairs associated with this issue (in or out of warranty period, providing service history can be demonstrated). That is the answer I was hoping for and maybe people like me asking dealerships questions in a polite and civilised way goes some way to helping achieve resolutions. Yes, I acted somewhat impetuously in changing bikes and I would not make the same decision now.
To be clear on the positives -
The dealer who could not answer my question at the time, could not have been better throughout all our dealings. The dealers were in a difficult position. Each of my 3 KTMs has been fantastic, including the 2023 890 Adventure I will trade in tomorrow to conclude the deal I made a little over two weeks ago. I rode it 200 miles today in storm winds. It is an amazing bike. I have only ridden one other bike in this class and it is hard to see how the 890 could be bettered all-round. The recent statement by KTM has changed the picture, protecting existing owners, prospective buyers and dealerships.
It's very difficult to win back disgruntled customers, and a bad reputation can be even harder to lose. Not sure why KTM went down the path they did. Sometimes management decisions can be difficult to understand.
This stain will never wash away. People still remember the camchain problems that plagued Honda in the 80's LAST CENTURY.
Too little too late and a lot of but's and if's
We should've expected this from KTM, they'd go under in a minute if they didn't.
10,000 Miles on my CF Moto built 24’ 790 ADV. it’s been excellent and reliable in my travels
I would suspect this has very little to do with goodwill and a lot more to do with Ktm's 37% year on year drop in sales for 2024.
All brands had the sales decline… the MC market it’s on its bottom for now… sales decline, dealerships close…. All brands are affected
But where dies all the worn metal end up ?
So it looks like KTM are doing damage limitation which is good so people get repairs done. I am less convinced that they are telling the truth about the cause .It does seem to be a relatively small number but given that the costs for such failuers are so big it is good to see KTM stepping up
Small number 🤔 personally, if there is a design problem with this type of engine, every engine made will have this issue,
Just boils down to how many miles it's covered and time actually riding it,
I've seen that it's nothing to do with the actual hardness of the cam shafts it's to do with the oil supply.
Oil isn't just a lubricant is cools at the same time.
And the pictures I've seen there is a heat build up on some of the cam lobes.
I think there will people with this engine in their bikes affected for many years to come as the milage increases.
Will KTM honour those people I doubt it.
Personally I think it should be a cross the board recall on every bike made with this engine.
It's their cock up and why should the customer suffer.
Because it would break the company.
@@John900Cand yet millions if not billions are pocketed by management board and excessive offices.
They could easily do it if they had the right priorities...
it's not a small number, it's ALL of them, which, if actually recognized in a press release, will bankrupt any company, especially after the way they treated their customers so far.
Great to see them doing something . Its about time to put this one to bed . Biker power has brought this great result to a good conclusion . But there are going to be people that have lost huge amounts of cash that will not benefit from this which is unfortunate and very sad. Why does it take such a long painful drawn out effort to get these companies to bloody listen .Great conclusion but its taken far to long and caused so many people undue stress. 👍👍👍
Because they do it only after it hits them where it matters - their profits, so they are pretty much forced
I sold my 890R at 11500 klms, timing chain started to rattle its brains out at 7500 klms. I couldn't shut it up so sold the bike. Disappointed for sure. Now have an 1190 LC8 V Twin. No issues.
Blimey! A manufacturer doing the right thing, for a change? I never expected that 😂
Not without a lot of pushing and bad press though. I’m guessing the sales figures of the seemingly affected models may have motivated them too.
Yes!! Result. Thanks to all who have kicked up a fuss over this issue. KIM'S hand has been forced into dealing with the matter in an honourable way at last.
It masks the low oil pressure (20psi vs 50-60psi) to the head problem, too. The finger followers are also now wider as part of the recall. But as we say in Australia, you never take a KTM more than a days ride from a dealership. So its back to Suzuki, Honda and BMW for your Simpsons Desert crossing.
Bingley Wheeler, are there any camshaft issues with the new 1390 R Evo editions?
Thanks Dave for the information. Ride safe. Cheers
'Repair' isn't good enough...the engine has been corrupted with debris and needs replacing!
And recalls are mandatory, issued via DVLA, and not dependent of a SFH. They are usually safety related.
Of course you hear more about bikes with problems, than about bike without any. But on the other hand ... a friend had the camshaft problem and had to fork out a lot of money for repair. So this problem was not just hearsay for me. Whatever solution was found later, after pressure got too big ... i have not heard yet, that they will call back all bikes of that series and fix the problem for good. My first concern about adventure bikes is reliability, not warranty or goodwill. It is not helping a single bit, that you will be reimbursed, if youre at the end of world and your bike is not running. I had KTMs in the past and rode them through the desert - but at the moment i would rather choose another brand. Especially in the current situation of KTM, as you can't be sure, if the can keep their promise in the long run.
Kudos to KTM for stepping up to the plate finally however they have taken far too long and really damaged their own reputation. Unfortunately once a manufacturer rightly or wrongly achieves such status sales will suffer. I’m sure KTM are seeing this in the showrooms as they appear to be struggling to shift heavily discounted 2023 bikes (8k for a 790 adv) Thanks for the feedback it’s great to know and I’ll update my neighbor who decided not to buy a 790 adventure due to this.
Thanks for staying on top of this issue! Ride on my man
I haven't heard of any CF Moto MT 800's with this issue
I wonder how many owners are yet to discover this issue as they only do small annual milage? I would hope ktm know which bikes are affected by there production logs and bikes vin numbers.
Small numbers or big numbers are irrelevant. Social media and KTM's slow response means the damage is done. Anyone who has home serviced or used independent servicing centres means their resale or trade value is now rubbish. A lot of people will be left with a very bad taste in their mouths.
Thanks TBW, I think this will not effect the CFmoto 790 engine. Those 2019-2020 engines were not manufactured in China.
Ohh I was surprised that they weren’t manufactured in China, sounds odd that they haven’t been?
@@chrispack3131they started later
All too often the case, a manufacturers sales start to suffer so they finally have no choice but to step up to the plate. At least they have had the good grace to say they have learned lessons. I have no doubt they would have allowed this 'insignificant' issue to go unaddressed if they thought they could get away with it. Happened to me years ago with a Nissan Navara (crank issue). They squirmed for as long as possible, then fessed up, but applied lots of conditions to thier goodwill repair offer. I have never been back to them and never will so I completely understand the comments from your subscribers who have lost trust in the KTM brand. I really hope for eveyone concerned that they are true to their word. Sadly i am not sure they will extend their goodwill to CF Moto owners though
Fabulous update 😊, I've just ordered my new KTM 690.. 🎉 can't wait ❤ .
Hope it serves you well Martine ❤️
KTM say the problem was due to narrow finger followers and/or oil ways blocked. KTM pride themselves for making high performance engines, maybe the cam profile was too aggressive and a larger surface area was needed on the follower, someone didn't work that out. With regards to the oil flow (my theory) is the cross drilling of the oil ways left swarf in the over drilled holes which broke free and blocked the oil jets, that's why some cam lobes are affected and not others, putting a filter before the cam oil feed will do nothing, poor quality control in Austria was the issue.
Incidentally, how many miles is an Lc8c supposed to last?.
Just had my cams and followers replaced while getting valves adjusted at 19k kms. (2020 ktm adv r). The bike ran well and fairly problem free, but now I feel hesitant to take it out because I don’t want a catastrophic failure. But this issue is going to follow these engines into the resale market and prices will be low. Thanks KTM for making this engine a dud.
A sad tale this, and poorly handled by KTM, who will lose far more in bike sales than it would have cost them to cover their failures fully, from the first sign of trouble. Only to have to 'do the right thing' in the end, but now too late, with damage to their image already done. This was already 'tarnished' by their odd system of providing features on the bike which went redundant after a certain mileage, thereafter having to be paid for to restart. A lot of criticism of this.
I would agree with those who suspect this cam issue relates more to oil supply than hardness, as this issue has affected many OHC models over the years, from the 750/4 Honda of fifty years ago, onwards. I worked on bikes for a living for many years from that time, and blockages/restrictions were invariably the cause. To achieve the oil pressure to the top end, many engines have restrictors (like tiny carb jets) in the gallery, and this is where the problems usually originate.
There was mention of some mesh filtration in-line in the top-end oil feed of these KTM models, so I would be looking there. The addition of an extra gallery presumably halves, but does not completely eliminate, the chance of such a problem. A great shame for a previously well thought-of model, all of which will now be devalued for evermore.
no issues with newer models???--- just wait
Although it looks like ktm's mind set is heading in the right direction, I believe that the problems are greater than doing what they say will fix. It looks like newer bikers are affected, there appear to be basic quality problems regarding swarf in engines from new which will damage bores and bearings not being replaced under the scheme.
Nothing less than newly redesigned and produced engines replacing the old engines will suffice.
I think this has makings of a class action suit in the future.
I did comment earlier with a link to the Head of KTM USA, but it has disappeared.
Anyway, he stated that all of the engines affected were made in Austria, not China.
So this should be good news for CFmoto owners.
Is the there good will to repair a world wide offer? Im im the states. Asking for a friend, i ride yamaha
So in 2019 they became aware of many failures, they re-engineered the parts, then continued to blame owners and attempt to avoid taking ownership of any failures for 3 more years.
Only a few failures....must be why cams were sold out for months on end around the world, our local supplier had just themselves 148 followers on back order while used cams were fetching new prices.
My cams failed and I flat out don't trust KTM's numbers for a second.
Now we know how to get people to replace their Takata air bags. In the future, vehicles will drive themselves to the dealer when not feeling well.
Anyone know how the Svartpilen 801 is doing on this regard?
Not sure about this it seems damage limitation - could they not be on the front foot to sort every bike that has this ticking time-bomb, if they have identified it as a design issue, rather than leaving it for a few owners down the line to find out, who will then face scrutiny over service history records (albeit they seem to suggest flexibility there), which could be tricky to prove, as modern KTMs don't come with a service book to stamp.
Morning Dave , its good KTM are stepping up on this or is it the power of social media made them , take care & ride safe
KTM is doing itself a favor by this...guess it was time they are finally sort this out.
well done #ktm, the only sensible option but still - fair play🙂
But is this a case of too little too late 🤔 they have been ducking it for a while, trying to minimise it and dismiss it as a minor issue, not so much if it's your bike which is affected 🤨
@@kevindarkstar I disagree about it being too little too late, also worth remembering that all big ships turn slowly, all.
Destination matters more than journey.
@@ogasi1798 perhaps
Small amount they know about.Problem is plenty people may not know of their issue ,only way is to send in to be check.KTM will not carry that cost.they should recall all models and check.dont wait on client to complain.
Meanwhile all the metal has gone throughout the engine. The whole engine should be replaced. But now they are going into receivership.
the camshaft issue is just the cherry on the top, these bikes suffer from quality issues all around, not to mention that they required at least 2500EUR in maintenance each 2years/30000km even if everything works good, because KTM.
btw, they have erased ALL the information regarding warranty claims from the online service report, good luck prooving you had problems with the bikes.
The CF Moto engines don’t have this issue as it’s a completely redesigned top end
@thebingleywheeler then KTM must give every 790/890 owner a free CfMoto bike with similar specs.
And then they must declare bankruptcy and leave the market because they don't care or know how to build a motorcycle.
KTM are just doing what a court action would force but that's sensible. I hope KTM survives this.
This is Great news but well overdue by KTM. Love my 901 but was seriously thinking of selling it. Ps the back ground noise you had playing was a pain in arse 😂. Thanks for the update 👍
Had two KTM's one a year old and one brand new and I can confidently say they are the last will NEVER own another .
Thanks for the update Dave…. what is Cfmoto’s stance on this issue are they offering the same as KTM are regarding the Cams issue?
I would think so
KTM is notorious for unreliable durability and engine/transmission components failures. I experienced this myself with transmission components failures at 10,000mi. KTM offered zero support. The machine was only 2 years old, the engine/transmission was Austrian made. Now I am seeing the Chinese made KTM units are just as problematic. I have decided not to buy a C F Moto and am going with the Royal Enfield 450 adv bike.
The 450 CF Moto engine is their own.
@@nockianlifter661 CF Moto manufacturers engine/transmission's for KTM, therefore CF Moto equally responsible for KTM unreliability.
@@kevinnielsen1356 They didn’t design the KTM engines, they just manufacture them to the design provided and the quality/accuracy is determined by KTM engineers. In effect CF Moto are being tarred by their association with KTM. You said it yourself, their designs have issues wherever they are built. CF Moto now have to prove themselves ultra reliable in order to shrug off that image.
@@nockianlifter661 I was wrong. The KTM problem units where all made in Austria. My personal KTM issue was with a 2015 KTM 500exc. The output shaft splines prematurly wore out at 10.000mi, at 2 seasons of riding. KTM was of zero help, stating "That is high mileage for a dirt bike ". Strange statement considering I've owned Honda and Suzuki road legal dirt bikes for 3 times that mileage with no such problem. I've owned Honda, Yamaha and BMW chain drive bikes for 50,000mi with no such issues. My KTM was made in Austria but so was my BMW 650 GS that had 47000mi when I sold it with the output shaft splines at 100% still. I will never own KTM again not because of the part failure, but because of KTM's utter lack of customer support. The only reason KTM is responding on the camshaft issue is damage control. They do not care about the customer. I sincerely hope CF Moto bikes are reliable, but more importantly, the CF Moto shows respect for tier customers. Royal Enfield is committed to customer support and they will get my patronage.
@@kevinnielsen1356 All bikes run the risk of unreliability. Even Honda. I bought a Fantic 500 with a Zongshen manufactured motor. Everyone worried about reliability. It’s been faultless and fantastic fun, it’s been on green lanes and every kind of road, I’ve ragged it everywhere. Uses no oil, starts every time, no unusual noises, it’s as good as a Japanese bike in my opinion. I’d buy another one immediately if it was stolen or written off. I’ll take the risk on a CF Moto being just as reliable. It’s replacing a Yamaha Serrow which is just too compact for comfort now I’ve had some off road training. The new Himalayan was an option, but it’s more of a travel bike and a bit too top heavy when out on uneven ground. The other option was a KTM 300 EXC F - but huge money and I have to travel to the trails and that would be hard work. Pretty much leaves either the older Himalayan or the CF Moto as I don’t like the over priced Honda 300 thing.
Isn't your view of the core issue a fault with design of the cylinder head, ie, impeded oil flow to the jet that sprays the cam lobes? So isn't a new head design the real solution?? The wider fingers will spread the load including heat, but surely still just a matter of time for damage to occur to most cams??? Obviously providing owners with a new redesigned head would probably send them broke, but if I was an owner aware of your video on the real issue, I'd conclude that if I wanted to keep the bike, I may well need several new heads and camshafts over the life of the bike......
I understand there are many different scenarios owners have gone through and costs associated with this issue. KTM has become a successful brand by pushing the limits and producing amazing motorcycles. Obviously they missed something, this was obviously not intentional (I'm sure many people are looking for new jobs) but all they can do is fix it now and they have addressed it. If keyboard warriors continue to bash KTM, try to make it their goal in life to destroy their brand, they may very well succeed with it and leave us with one less choice on showroom floors. I could not afford a new KTM Adventure, I could afford a 2024 CF Moto 800 Ibex Explore (Ibex in Canada, MT for the rest of you fine folks) and hope one day KTM will be around when I am ready ...
So if they are extending the warrantee then do you feel you have bought a pig in a poke? Are you concerned on the reliability of the machine? How will this effect the residual value when it comes to trading or selling the machine?
It can’t be a “pig in a poke” when only 0.5% of bikes are “affected”. No concerns here….any future px would be another cf Moto
I do my own servicing on my Duke..oil change every 2000 miles and not motorex
Yeah let's change oil after every ride 😂
no its not the same engine. Yes same family but different engine., the 790 engine is not the same as the 890 engine. Different valve sizes and bore and stroke.
I just wouldn’t buy a KTM or one of its sister brands now.
Cheese Gromit yum. Wow this is great news.
Good news
Good news! The sensible route to take. KTM will continue to be a success as a result.
would you have bought the bike if you had known about these issues ?
Yes certainly
No I wouldn't have. A modern engine shouldn't have these issues
Mine doesn’t!