Yup, still got my '92 600R I bought new back then. Fyi, Mash copied the venerable RFVC, added injection and made it Euro5 compliant. Meanwhile the carburetted, non Euro5 650L is still for sale in the US.
With today’s emissions standards there will be no simple cheep bikes Engine development and certification is the cost driver for everything with a combustion engine.
Itchy boots went around the world on a 300 cc single cylinder. Honda dealers can’t keep them in stock. Meanwhile ADV riders complain about the cost of 1250 cc bike for their weekend trip on green lanes. Something had to give
I couldn’t agree more. If Honda still made XR 250, 400 & 600’s with e-start and maybe updated suspension with the air cooled motor they’d sell every bike they made.
By the way, I am employed at KTM in Mattighofen. Yes, KTM really has problems, just like the rest of the European auto moto sector. The main problem, the excessive prices of the KTM engine and consequently insufficient sales, we are told in the warehouses that only here in Mattighofen there are more than 70,000 engines. Therefore, we now work for two more weeks and then from December 13th we have a 2-month production stoppage and we are on forced leave an become 80% of the salary will be paid. In March 2025, production should run completely normally again. We hope that everything will be ok...unfortunately, it really doesn't look good for now, just like you say, let's hope that everything will be better next year.
It's not a sad loss, KTM turned their back on the very customers who built their company. It's strange how KTM were more affordable when they were a left field non mainstream brand and when they started making 1000s of bikes a day they put up the prices, charged you extra to have a working Speedo after a month, lowered reliability from low reliability, and added a dealership network of absolute sharks. Also no one talks about how they turned their backs on great independent small motor bike shops that offered great service, because they were not high end enough for them. The growth of KTM is a classic story of greed and turning it's back on their roots.
@thecontroversialcyclist 🎯 I’m not a motorbike expert by any stretch of the imagination but this mirrors corporatism shown right across business since the early 80s. Shareholders over long term health of the company. Workers and cherished customer loyalty taken completely for granted. One thing’s certain - the directors and senior managers will be absolutely fine at the end of this “rationalisation” The ones deeply affected will be at the sharp end - workers on the line and customers who love riding their bikes. It’s a f@cking disgrace. Again. And again.
A text book study of horrible management decision making. They thought the post covid bump was going to be the new normal. Lots of other companies in the same situation.
A large number who could ever afford the KTM premium (they were always more expensive) can still afford them. The affluent are still affluent. Other European manufacturers (Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, MV Agusta, etc.) have similar pricing for comparable products. I think the biggest issue is that NOBODY will buy it at any price until they fix the quality, reliability, and customer service problems. They have a huge PR PROBLEM now that the blood is in the water and potential customers doubt viability of the company, the value of any “warranty” if they buy one, and the plummeting resale value with this issue hanging around. Would you buy a KTM now, with this going on? No demand and big supply means falling prices. Pity the existing owners.
Far too many models, 25 different models of ktm, Why? No one needs that much choice, it’s ridiculous. In the duke range alone, 200, 390, 640, 690, 790, 890, 950, 990, 1050, 1090, 1190, 1290, now the 1390. Seriously why so much choice?🤯can you imagine the complex production and logistics and the cost of all those spare parts. Consumers got greedy, manufacturers got even more greedy.
Yeah... too much KTM models and too much rebranding for a lower price, Husqvarna and GasGas should be a more low cost brand like Royal Enfield and not based on the mid range Duke's and SMC. MV Agusta should be their Bugatti Veyron brand and create new rich people collector toys like some other known brand did with Lamborghini and Bentley
I agree 125, 200, 390 for the A2 licence and developing markets. It is price sensitive hence needs more options. 790 or 890 as middleweight One or two litre bike 1390, 1290 Simple lineup then they can focus on reliability.
I was going to say this same thing. Make a couple options to simplify the manufacturing process and lower the cost for the consumer and allow them to modify the bike the way they want after purchase. It is what Japanese motorsports have been doing for years and it’s a working solution. Competitive pricing is the only way they will sell more bikes.
Add to that the fact that multiple bikes are wrapped a different color, for instance the 690 has the Husqvarna 701 and the GasGas SM 700. Same bike, different wrap.
This Will happen all over europe with all car and motor/ chemicals/ steel / .... Factorys. Many countries are still playing off thé Corona debt , thén theres thé Ukraine debt.. if you are Lucky you Will have a job in 2025.... If not. You Will have another job that pays less . And who needs a bike with 160 or more horsepower? You can do 30…50.70..90 and 120.. thé rest costs you your driving licence.. and with An enduro you Cant drive almost anywhere without being illegal.. that's what kills thé bikes sales for a great part .
@@ikvanachter6002lol. A cheery post 😊 I do get what you mean about stupid power on road bikes though. Especially when most people can’t ride 70hp to its limit 😊
@@barebonesmc that's thé truth. , they all want more power but there brain cant follow... I have seen enough " good " riders get themselves killed on a +150 Hp machine. ( Also on a 20hp machine; but that was a bad rider)
And a new automobile is 40,000. EVERYTHING HAS GONE UP. Comparing one thing from the past against something new makes no sense. KTM's are the kind of thing, if you cant afford it, dont buy it. Like a BMW or an AUDI or a new full size truck. Dont buy em if they cost too much. (A new KTM 890R is about 18K, you could buy 10 new vehicles for 18K? Really?)
While It is partially true what you are saying but all brands went up in price... you now have to pay 19k for a Ducati SF 900cc V2 while for a bit less you had the best equiped 1200 Monster R in the past...
@ yeah it’s a buyers market on used bikes for sure. Wasn’t debating that. I was actually just trying to state a fact which is that the average new motorcycle today costs more than I paid for my first 10 vehicles. I had more than 10 vehicles by the time I was 20 (none of them were very expensive) but the fact I had stated remains. Sorry for the confusion.
I paid just short of £5,000 for my Yamaha MT-03 in 2021. It now as 8,230 miles on the clock, has been super reliable, and great fun to ride. At the age of 88, big bikes are just too heavy for me to manhandle around, hence the little Yam. The bonus being. I never really needed a big bike in the first place, the little Yam being loads of fun, cheap to buy, maintain, tax, insure etc. The price of big bikes is just silly now, and I can see a lot more manufacturers struggling in the near future.
Certainly in the U.K. as the demographic gets older our wants change😊 and I think the days of the penile extensions are numbered 🤣🤣 the sub 400 category is the only sector growing in the U.K.
I wonder if Pierer Group has used KTM as a sort of sacrificial lamb, so to speak, to avoid restructuring their core business. It´s the only thing that makes a bit of sense because for one motorcycle manufacturer to get into a $3 Billion hole is hard to believe.
Well we KNOW they didn’t lose the money paying out warranty claims (denied). We know they didn’t spend it in the “customer service” department (unless they hired more people to tell customers “NO”). Maybe the Engineers with the know-how to make cams out of cheese and to turn off software and features that the customer already paid for are really demanding high salaries in the market place for their unique skill set? They had to set up the Extortion Department to extort money from those who wanted their “features” reactivated after the “demo” period. Not sure how much they spent to gobble up Husqvarna and GasGas? How much was paid in executive bonuses and acquisition for all the “good work” they were doing? Shame, because they turned out some very good motorcycles…when the motorcycles were running. Two years ago I ALMOST bought a Super Adventure 1290…but the dealer was “sketchy”…thanks be to Jesus NOW that I didn’t!
if they'd gone the opposite way and offered engine replacements the goodwill alone would have seen an uptick in sales and maybe kept the creditors quiet for a little longer. turning on your customers is a nail in the coffin and ktm's refusal to acknowledge the problem then refusal to accept responsability for a shitty design flaw... goodbye ktm, your new chinese overlords re: owners) will welcome you.
@@sideshow101101I don’t think it would have benefited the company much. Flagging motorcycle sales across all manufactures currently exists. They knew they couldn’t afford to replace engines and took the conservative cheaper option that would show some good will but wouldn’t break them.
The goal is likely to achieve mass layoffs legally and transfer the jobs to where labor is cheap, a classic strategy for increasing profits for those at the top. Lots of little necessary moves to get there but the end result will be the same. Worst case scenario the company goes under but who cares right, those at the top still got paid.
Honda seems to be able to hang onto this philosophy. BMW motorcars has imho fallen victim to massive over expansion and they’re just not different anymore. I don’t anything about the motorrad group but I hope they’re not going the same way.
Expensive bikes, with poor reliability and lack of repair parts, combined with a lack independent repair shop info or ECU tooling. There are customers going elsewhere. They need to get back to their roots and build a bike without all of the gadgets, like a TV screen for instrument display and keyless systems.
I understand emission controls on bikes , but give me a motorcycle with just Speedo and gas gauge. I can adjust my suspension manually and I can figure out what gear I’m in by myself. You don’t get all the electronics on bikes in third world countries and they seem to survive quite well.
The 90 days, will be used to persuade creditors to accept 10% on the euro as final settlement. My guess is that they will have to agree because i doubt whether the KTM company actually has any significant assets. When the creditors agree, as they must, KTM will try to borrow enough to pay them off and then the whole thing will probably start again. The sums of money being toted about are absolutely huge, well beyond the value of any assets held and well beyond anything that could have accrued within a 12 month period. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that KTM has been trading whilst insolvent for years.
@@ianjohnson1207 Can you back up your statement or not? I suspect not. The very fact that KTM has gone into administration should tell you that it cannot honour its debts and liabilities, which were initially quoted as €100 million. That would have been no problem at all to any company with (as you claim) €3 billion in assets. The facts will become clear in due course. In the meantime i will disregard your rudeness and your invented figures.
@@J.Harry.T Excuse me! I don’t have to back up anything, the brass neck on you. All the financial information is easily found if you half half a brain, so looks like that’s why you’re struggling Do you think I’m your personal secretary 🤔
Translation: We're living on Chinese cash transfusions until the bank finishes the transfer paperwork to "Wei Fling Pu Motors", LLC; Hong Kong. Auf Weidersehn....
Extra payment 1000 eur just to unlock 890 adventure riding modes (on allready expensive bike), camshaft problems, not so good reliability , bad service experience ... etc is for me reason why i riding nowadays T7
KTM and the PMG have always been just about the money, never about their people or customers! It's taken 10 years, but the Nov 26 announcement was a sweet birthday present for me! The terrible handling of the takeover of Husqvarna left me with a bike in warranty, but without support, and worse still, put hundreds of Italian workers out of a job overnight. Loyal Husaberg owners were also cut loose, KTM having bought them just to finish them as competition. Then they moved on to Gas Gas, rolled out the same 'There'll be no adverse effects on the brand and workforce', then smack - All finished overnight the same as Husky. It amuses me greatly to see the company financially bankrupt, as they have been morally bankrupt for years! They don't look after their customers, indeed they use them as an 'army' of test engineers. (TPI, Xplor, anyone)??? 🤔 They have marketed READY TO RACE but not been even close to this, certainly not in the Enduro bikes, with inferior suspension and lack of standard equipment compared to other brands. I hope the company suffers a takeover from the Indians or the Chinese, it will be justice served 👍
We’ll know it’s a conspiracy if nobody bids. If enough debt is written down, and the product line reduced, there ought to be a business in here somewhere. Sometimes, creditors make an example of a restructuring and refuse to sign off on a debt write off. They’re entitled to seek liquidation as the last resort. Hope this doesn’t happen but how the dickens did they rack up so much debt?
They have to have very bad management to screw up so good and liked brand. Overpriced and too many models, no sense idea to into sport bikes, motoGP etc
Ktm Bought a 1290 sas 2023 , never going to buy KTM ever again, abs pump issue causing panic brake randomly, started to have coolant lost 250ml in 4 days and counting , paint peeling everywhere on the clutch bracket and reservoir , battery drain issue , between 50-80km the steering will wobble uncontrollably , if you let go and will also go right instead of straight. There was also a chemical / electrical smell when starting in the garage , the wireless key even in the bike compartment kept being out of range . KTM dealer said everything was "normal" . The adaptive cruise control took them a month to fix . I traded it and never looking back , lost thousands but that was better then keeping it. Dangerous bike. Believe everything you see in forums about KTM , it’s not exaggerated. Extremely unreliable!
Yet their Off road dirt bike models are bulletproof.. can go over 100 hours without changing parts, japanese equivalent bikes go about 60 hours before needing replacement parts
@@henryvaneyk3769 I have experience 950, 990, 1190, 1290 (2018 I liked this best), and latest 1290. All R models and driven about 40-50 tkm. Only major issue has been 1190 air filter. And it was fixed by guarantee. I've been lucky!
I was seriously considering a KTM300 hard Enduro bike but the 13,000€ for a two stroke dirt bike sent me looking elsewhere. I bought a Rieju 300 PRO and saved thousands of euros. It’s a real GASGAS , not a rebranded KTM!
@ I did not want EFI or all the electronics. I also wanted a kickstart , premix and KYB suspension with linkage. For the hard Enduro 300 my local dealer quoted me 13,000€ plus IVA.
Will be selling LESS with this hanging around their neck. Who wants a bike with suspect “warranty” and plummeting resale value, not to mention proven reliability and customer service issues, when the company is on the brink? Big supply, low demand, falling prices, bad reputation, PR and goodwill in the shitter. Good luck KTM. Chinese buyout and long road to recovery I suspect, if even THAT is possible.
slash prices and firesale half their range, keep only those that sell well, sell of the subsiduary brands to china (in the hope they don't just buy ktm alltogether) and consolidate what's left. maybe they might surivive but yeah, billions in debt mormally means they're toast.
When companies think they can bank on just their brand name and not work towards organizational efforts and customer satisfaction. This was bound to happen. Hope the loyalists dont get stranded
well put my friend :-) and yep it is the staff and the faithful that i feel sorry for, and i do hope a solution comes. february will be crucial, so i guess he is hoping that Daniel Sanders or the Benavides brothers bring home the trophy
Thanks for keeping us informed. I had the 690 Duke R 73 bhp from a single i loved it.I had the 1190 Adventure R when it came out, the battery supplied was not big enough! I could not trust the bike to start so i sold it. After that the big Adventure bikes seemed to have issues with the electronics. If you use a bike for travelling you need to be able to trust it.I did not like the Demo mode, i beieve that created bad will with KTM buyers before the cadbury cams.
Too bad. They're one of the last manufacturers that offers that big V-twin performance. Love em or hate em there's nothing else on the market like their LC8 platform.
I’m sure Ducati would argue 😊 but in truth. How many can actually use that power? I know a guy who replaced his 990 with a 1290 and has been trying to buy the 990 back ever since. I think that says something 😊
@@321-Gone not to get political, but Austria is not exactly a law abiding country, there is white collar crime everywhere there, just ask Raifeissen about Russia.
@@barebonesmc Yes now down to two, the comment was to the poster’s comment “Austria needs to take him to court for fraud” There were six board members when this happened not one man allegedly committing fraud
The price of KTM to buy,run,and residual values are terrible, unfortunately many bike manufacturers have hiked bike prices to an unbelievable level, hence the Chinese stepped in and put's the last nail I'm the coffin
How does one person get how’s responsible for the P&L and more importantly, accountable, still remain in his position. I’m speechless. Thanks for the update on this one and all of your content.
@@marcusgeorge1825 they’ve withdrawn from the mv deal not paid Decembers wages and now fights in the factory. No 790 or 890 heads/cams available and no more built till March at least so parts already hit
I would never buy a KTM after the way they treated me in 2000. I crashed my 620 supercomp supermoto. KTM, we're in the process of moving factories. This meant there were no spare parts for my bike. I spoke to the boss at KTM uk. He said it was the dealers fault for not stocking enough spare parts. My bike was off the road for months. Never again.
Sounds crap. As I’ve said before. Near me I get both ends of the spectrum. The main dealer is terrible but theees a guy who just does the dirt bikes who always holds stock is really helpful and doesn’t charge the earth for parts
KTM should have stuck to their bread and butter - 690cc and down dirt bikes and dual sports. Our local KTM dealer went out of business because KTM forced them to stock all sorts of extra-large displacement, brutally expensive adventure and road bikes that they couldn't sell nor afford to keep. I have been riding for 52 years, and have probably only seen ten KTM motorcycles over 800cc in my area, and these were just passing through. Local dealers shouldn't be forced to keep expensive models that absolutely will not sell in their area.
@@barebonesmc KTM should at least allow their dealers to decide which bikes they need to stock {and pay interest on) based on what sells in their area. Besides, any bike could always be ordered or brought in from another dealership.
My Genuine hope is that all of the companys involved in this nightmare survive and become more robust in the long run,they are all good brands with great potential and their employees do not deserve this degree of stress and uncertanty.
@@barebonesmc Being an MX dad, where both I and the kid are riding white KTMs.... Been following this debacle for some time now... With original spare parts potentially coming to a halt as well.... How is the aftermarket reacting? Will we be able to keep our toys running? A true nail-biter...
As I am not familiar with the rigor of management, I cannot help but feel sad for the employees due to the record in endurance that KTM has, even when they entered MotoGP, I already anticipated that in a short time KTM would teach Aprilia and Ducati a lesson in terms of who was going to be the most competitive European manufacturer but unfortunately sometimes those who risk a lot end up not getting the return they expect. The thing that is right to say is that the world is really in a process of regeneration, no one knows for sure which way it is safe to turn and with global crisis after crisis it is very difficult.
The one thing that i find incredible is the lack of spares support ( and thats not just for KTM ) Aprilia are at fault here too....people are keeping bikes for longer and, to a certain extent wanting to keep those bikes running also. Suzuki have understood that and put old bikes on the heritage program and produce bike spares for the old gsxr etc etc. I cannot get some spares for my old rsv4 factory (the very first one) - also own an sxv550 and part for that are even more scarce...if they want to make money start producing spares for the old bikes...youll clean up..! And yes just to add in...prices for bikes left me behind 15 years ago..!
Sad to hear this! Sad also the most every major global corporation puts profits before people…. letting their people know via RUclips this a sad, sad situation.
I'm glad I bought my Yamaha T7 ...took many for a ride including KTM's 790,890 nice to ride and yes suspension and power better......but one thing I was shocked with was the engine sounded like a bucket of bolts ....this alone put this engineer off these machines. However the Yamaha CP2 engine sounds beautiful at any rev and I use all of them...... alot!!! 31k now and oil changes and many tyres all its had!! Very Happy!!
Robust....apart from 690, 790 & 890 valve train. 690 fuel pumps etc. I will miss them, having owned and enjoyed several. Lots of attitude and excitement - the whole point of motorcycling.
Megalomania, serious quality problems combined with Pierer taking to much money out of the company. They must cut 80% of their BS activities and go back to the core business.
$3 Billion debt with 5000 employees is a very rough position. The last 10 years of KTM’ brand acquisition spree and infrastructure expansions have inflicted several large and perhaps long term fatal moves. Coolest is not most profitable ??? Wow ? I’m a share holder because I bought 5 new KTM 450 exf ‘s over the past 15 years. The quality is fantastic !!! Let’s not loose the magic ingredients of people who have and can only make this happen !!! People !!!!
A 30 day warranty on a $15,000 2 stroke 300 is what killed the 2 stroke sales. Sherco , Beta and TM were offering 12 months . Beta and TM still have the option for the more punchy bottom end carburetor models .
Look at the USA distribution center. It is massive and amazingly extravagant. Vast open spaces that are amazing for a motorcycle company. When I toured it I was impressed but having been in the business for 45 years and being a part of the British factories final years I wondered how KTM could afford such extensive spending on appearance. Could the sales numbers pay for this opulence? Guess not.... Like the vast sums BSA spent in 1970-71 KTM spent their assets foolishly. So very sad and I am a KTM owner.
Happens when you make crappy products, people have been complaining about issues with their KTM bikes for a long time and nothing has as addressed…. They deserve to go under at this point
looking at the crazy range of ktm bikes and the number of subsiduary brands i can see how they ended up $3B in debt. add on the now typical not-my-problem response to 890 camshafts problems and 'premium' pricing too... goodbye loyal customer base.
I had a 05 300exc, great bike, very reliable, great suspension, powerful engine. I had a 15 1290 Super Duke, also a great bike, reliable, suspension, powerful. I was offered a trade for a 18 1290. But I don't want or trust fob ignition switch or gas cap release. Experience with these systems have shown them to be subject to interference from many possible sources. Your phone, other fobs, coins or metal objects too close to the bike fob.
that's the thing though, it seems as if Stefan Pierer is doing everything he can to not allow KTM to be controlled by anyone but himself. Obviously Bajaj would probably be the best bet from a business perspective, but KTM would never be the same.
There should be only one focus: the loyal buyers. They need to get them back on board. I have an 890 that’s been in the dealer for a starting problem since July and, not unreasonably, I asked that the cams be checked. It’s been in for over 4 months. A misalignment on the rear wheel was spotted which I expected to be repaired or replaced under warranty but being stonewalled. A bike with careful use only by me or the dealer, never off-road, dry garaged and sub 3,000 miles. I’m less than impressed. I also have a 690 Enduro in the US and a 701 Enduro here in the UK both of which I love. Like BMW (who I left), poor quality and poor service.
Insiders I have spoken to have said that the MotoGP experiment will be closed down immediately and that outsourcing engines to CFMoto has killed the brands reliability reputation. When you are charging a big premium in price and you do not have reliability, you have nothing. Dakar support will be confined to only one team and production will be focused on the more affordable end of the price range, but a 125? Seriously? In parts of the world where dealers and support are scarce, the brand carries a theme that if you plan to venture into the desert, you better have a truck full of spares as a support, or take a Honda. Bench testing the engines made by CFMoto show that they fail within 50,000kms, and that puts them at odds with countries that have tough consumer laws. An examination of the camshaft problem reveals that its the basic oil system design thats at fault with only 50psi being achieved above 6000rpm, with less than 20psi showing at 3-4,000 RPM. Add to that the bad design of the cam fingers and you have a disaster. Its rumoured that engineers from Suzuki were consulted and their report was scathing. The losses from rectifying this are estimated to exceed $400m. It will not be the first motorcycle manufacturer that failed at the cliff of unreliability. Should someone buy a new or used KTM? Not in a million years.
I had a 1090 Adventure, in theory a nice bike and ,in practice, yes, nice when it was working. Overcomplex IT killed it (and the KTM-branded luggage fell apart). 6 months was enough!
Honestly. The 1090 was my favourite. The 790 I had briefly just wasn’t put together well at all. Nothing actually fitted very well panel gaps seat rattle bolts not torqued properly. All sorts. N it was almost brand new
The dream of Pierer is becoming reality: a pure Indian/Chinese company. Austria plant will be closed for sure, leaving workers, banks and tax office with some cents each one. Operation achieved.
Virtually all motor cycle manufacturers suck, and deserve to go under! The reason for this statement is simple! They and I mean all manufacturers, are designing bikes that are not what the average biker needs or wants! Every modern motorcycle suffers from way too much unnecessary and costly technology, way too much plastic styling, and way not enough practicality. Furthermore, motor bikes have become extremely heavy, extremely expensive to buy and maintain, and most importantly, they have no soul! One of the most important things that separate bikes from cars, is that bikes (use) to have souls, character, a desire to kick it over and the freedom of the road! But not anymore, all modern bikes are water cooled , with pug ugly engines , and no kickstarter! today , you get a blacked out mass of pipes and nothing to look at! The 40's 50's 60' and 70's were the zenith of simple beautiful motor bike design. The manufacturers realise it, and try to " re-imagine" the vintage bikes and always fuck it up! I'm just surprised how long these companies have existed , when they have all clearly lost their way! A simple example to finish with: I downsized because of health issues from a BMW R Nine T Scrambler 1200cc bike, to a tiny step through Honda SH I 125. Its a lovely little practical twist and go with a 125cc water cooled engine. However, it has keyless ignition, and start stop technology FFS! so that at traffic lights, the engine will automatically switch off, to save the environment, and petrol! A scooter that small doesn't need these features, and why not an air cooled engine and a kickstarter! I guess I will have to switch to a Chinese scooter next time at half the cost, and just as good! Point proven I think!
wow, you said the F word and youtube didnt block it PMSL :-) have to agree with much of your comment :-) and kudos for beating the bot cleanser :-) not sure how you managed that one :-) have a great weekend
I expect a Chinese group will buy K.T.M out. manufacturing moved to China with a small K.T.M factory in Austria as an European distribution facility. There again I remember what happened to K.T.M in the seventies and eighties. History repeating its self.
The most likely outcome will be the carving up of assets to the highest bidders. It matters who holds Pierer debt. If the bankers involved are closely connected to European power brokers, there could be a government bailout. I would guess that Bajaj is keeping a very close eye on things. It might present them with the opportunity to assume ownership of a worldwide distribution network that is bigger than what Royal Enfield has built. I see stories posted online about big problems facing the German car makers so it's not surprising KTM finds itself in a bit of a pickle.
Three times I waited for a part for four months. My friend is waiting for a top end for five months. He got two and they were defected and returned. I called and emailed tens of times and never got a reply. Never again. I will not touch KTM with a stick. Beta and bmw are just great bikes for road and off road. Pick your tool and get the support you want!
Yes indeed, you called it & while I was never close to purchasing any of their products, it was due to higher costs & their required top end motor checks at the dealer. For someone like myself it's not advantageous to have a high wired piece of equipment when I lack the knowledge and money to keep my warranty afloat? I suspect many buy their products only to struggle keeping up all the maintenance & failing to do so might void your warranty = which would suck! I suppose guys who race or just love high end types of machines w/ little regard for their upkeep would buy right in. And what now.... I heard what they said about everything flowing like usual but I seriously doubt that as a statement to keep the stock a little higher while they dump a few million shares that they accidentally "Shorted" on the market - WHooPs, how could we have known it would drop like a ROCK = Rock ON $$$$ I hope all is well & that everyone is warm. We're just dealing w/ it all on a day by day basis here. Granted 1 more day !
Peace brother 😊 cold here but at least I’ve finally got a kitchen again and no more contractors 🤣🤣 got a lot going on right now but surviving😊 winter not my favourite time but we do have Dakar to look forward to
Nothing like a Culinary Korner to feed our face.... lol, you know it's, "Always something". I right with you on what's going on and I only have 2 choices? So I'm thinking about your next installment as part of my survival technique / methodology as the worlds turns/churns & BURNs..... We've got front row seats to the greatest time to be alive. I wouldn't miss it for the world & I'm glad that I know you. I can't fully explain that but some things don't need an explanation, IMO. I'm glad you are giving a fight back at any/all that stepped against you! How's the little lady? Well I hope & with that I'll say peace from the Great State of Texas. Ya'll take care & I'll see you on the next reel of film.... peace & GB You guys
Been servicing most bike brands over 30 years now and I don't like the way KTM operates. Why clean the three cleanable oil screens when servicing when you can charge the customer 60 dollars to replace them every time. Other manufactures use oil screens and recommend cleaning and inspecting for damage but they tend to last the life of the machine. Not fond of buying a bike then having to pay extra to make all the options it came with work either it's just greedy. All of the smaller bikes they sell are either made in India or China and are poor quality. Had one with a bad fuel pump right from the factory and along with that some of the fasteners holding body work to the tank were cross threaded in.
We won't be getting many SX, XC or EXC models this year. They definitely won't be moving any Factory Editions I will be buying all the OEM RFS parts I can find in the next 90 days.
@@bernardwatts5339yep that’s what I meant. The west seems to be committing hari kari but slowly. sadly China and India have a growing middle class with more disposable income and consequently are buying more bikes. Bikes beyond basic urban transport too
Nothing will change? They will probably drop a couple companies within their portfolio. I just hope Husqvarna isn’t sold off to someone who has no idea about motorcycles. I was interested in a 2024 401 Vitpillen
Ok. KTM is dead if its 2.3 billion euros. There is no way they can sell off parts and get enough cash. The only way out is a buyout. And a buyout will come with layoffs.
Your headline is wrong they aren’t bankrupt and they are not €3 billion in debt €1.3 billion in debt the rest is liability They also have assets of over €3.3billion
Sorry but there’s no way in hell (except by their own valuation) that they have 3 billion in assets. And if the money was so easy to raise why did they choose administration? Show me where you are getting these numbers because you are the only one saying anything like
@ It’s all there in the 2024 HT KTM financial report, no company can just value their own assets to make their financial results better or what they think the value is, they are audited by a third party You should know that! It’s on page 14 of 44 Assets aren’t the problem cash flow is, if you’re cash flow has reduced significantly that’s the problem
@ianjohnson1207 I’ll have a look again when I have time but it’s obvious we aren’t going to agree. February will tell if I was right or not I guess. We see things from a different perspective. That much is obvious 😊
@@barebonesmc I’m not disagreeing with you, it’s not my opinion, I’ve just read the HT financial report which is a legal document that has to be independently reviewed before it’s accepted and published Otherwise it’s fraud
@ianjohnson1207 and of course. No ceo has ever committed fraud or bent the truth ever. If you look at the numbers Pierer himself has quoted they always change from statement to statement. What is it they say. There are lies. Damn lies and statistics. A good mathematician (or maketing department) can and will make any figures they wan fit their agenda. That is the way of businesss 😊 have a good weekend anyway mate
After owning a 390 adventure with nothing but problems, good luck! Too bad what a terrible company but good bikes. No one has money for overpriced crap!
Hahaha what happens when they make shit bikes at unrealistic prices.. and worst of all stopped make 2 strokes.. its them 4 strokes that bankrupt them and them stupid track cars that are pretty much plastic. Hahaha
Yep. If you listen that’s what I say. It’s a newly introduced legislation givi them 90 days because they failed to raise the 640 million needed to keep creditors at bay within the 2 weeks prior
I hope the public doesn’t do like they usually do and pile on a brand that’s struggling all while ignoring all the amazing bikes they’ve produced. The sheep follow the herd and negative publicity like this usually becomes contagious. I hope we as a community can instead rally to try to keep this amazing motorcycle company around.
Well put. I try and be reasonable and to be fair. My criticism is of the company not the bikes. I think if Pierer stepped down that red bull cf moto and bajaj COULD put a viable rescue plan together between them. But while he stays it will be almost impossible
I love my 500EXC, but I also would be perfectly fine with a Honda CRF450RL and would love to see Yamaha make a 450 dual sport again. What happened to the WR250R?! I will be in the market for a new 450-500 dual sport soon. I'm not sure I'll get another KTM because of their current issues. Probably go with the CRF450RL unless KTM works things out.
For enduro bikes In the UK, it's not really the price, reliability, or after care. For us where I live, it's the police. We have 100s of miles of the perfect countryside. For these bikes. Now, don't get me confused with parks conservation areas I'm talking coal tips old mines quarrys that sort of stuff but we get hunted constantly. I would love if they brought out a off road licence that cost me £500 a year and I hand it over and off I ride. I'd happily buy a bike pay my off road licence. Lots of friends I've riden with have stopped buying these bikes because we can't use them.
Not buying a KTM until they bring down the price to where it needs to be for the quality and matching level of reliability. And they stop gouging with those ticky tack subscription services which should come standard on the higher end bikes. And oh yeah, maybe they get a better CEO who actually cares about customers.
I don't think I've ever listened to a horror story with such beautiful video footage. Well done. I have 21k miles on my 2023 DesertX (18 month old). Glad I didn't buy a KTM or Husky. 😆
We need simple cheap bikes. Anyone remember Honda XR trail bikes?
Yup, still got my '92 600R I bought new back then.
Fyi, Mash copied the venerable RFVC, added injection and made it Euro5 compliant. Meanwhile the carburetted, non Euro5 650L is still for sale in the US.
With today’s emissions standards there will be no simple cheep bikes
Engine development and certification is the cost driver for everything with a combustion engine.
Itchy boots went around the world on a 300 cc single cylinder. Honda dealers can’t keep them in stock. Meanwhile ADV riders complain about the cost of 1250 cc bike for their weekend trip on green lanes. Something had to give
I still have a 2003 XR250. Never sell it but I do get offers.
I couldn’t agree more. If Honda still made XR 250, 400 & 600’s with e-start and maybe updated suspension with the air cooled motor they’d sell every bike they made.
By the way, I am employed at KTM in Mattighofen. Yes, KTM really has problems, just like the rest of the European auto moto sector. The main problem, the excessive prices of the KTM engine and consequently insufficient sales, we are told in the warehouses that only here in Mattighofen there are more than 70,000 engines. Therefore, we now work for two more weeks and then from December 13th we have a 2-month production stoppage and we are on forced leave an become 80% of the salary will be paid. In March 2025, production should run completely normally again. We hope that everything will be ok...unfortunately, it really doesn't look good for now, just like you say, let's hope that everything will be better next year.
best of luck
Nö. Ihr habt's voll verdient was euch da passiert 😛
Thoughts with you mate. Can’t be easy. I do think Pierer must go. Hopefully then a solution can be found
Harsh
Just sad 🙏🙏
It's not a sad loss, KTM turned their back on the very customers who built their company. It's strange how KTM were more affordable when they were a left field non mainstream brand and when they started making 1000s of bikes a day they put up the prices, charged you extra to have a working Speedo after a month, lowered reliability from low reliability, and added a dealership network of absolute sharks. Also no one talks about how they turned their backs on great independent small motor bike shops that offered great service, because they were not high end enough for them.
The growth of KTM is a classic story of greed and turning it's back on their roots.
@thecontroversialcyclist 🎯
I’m not a motorbike expert by any stretch of the imagination but this mirrors corporatism shown right across business since the early 80s.
Shareholders over long term health of the company.
Workers and cherished customer loyalty taken completely for granted.
One thing’s certain - the directors and senior managers will be absolutely fine at the end of this “rationalisation”
The ones deeply affected will be at the sharp end - workers on the line and customers who love riding their bikes.
It’s a f@cking disgrace. Again. And again.
I expect Harley-Davidson to be next..
@@Pompomgrenade same story there as well, only a larger fan base.
A text book study of horrible management decision making. They thought the post covid bump was going to be the new normal. Lots of other companies in the same situation.
@@mhoppy6639100% agree.
When a motorcycle costs more than a family car, going bust was going to happen. People can’t afford them
A large number who could ever afford the KTM premium (they were always more expensive) can still afford them. The affluent are still affluent. Other European manufacturers (Aprilia, BMW, Ducati, Moto Guzzi, MV Agusta, etc.) have similar pricing for comparable products. I think the biggest issue is that NOBODY will buy it at any price until they fix the quality, reliability, and customer service problems. They have a huge PR PROBLEM now that the blood is in the water and potential customers doubt viability of the company, the value of any “warranty” if they buy one, and the plummeting resale value with this issue hanging around. Would you buy a KTM now, with this going on? No demand and big supply means falling prices. Pity the existing owners.
@@davidkendall1614 You don't see many billionaires on motorcycles in general. They pick more expensive less dangerous hobbies.
@ It wasn’t “LITERAL”. “More affluent” then. Thanks for clarifying my sarcasm.
rich boys toys. like the big gs's adventure bikes and it's not as big a market you think.
@@sideshow101101 No? Quantify that. Prove it. Plenty of market research and industry stats available to do so.
Thanks for telling it like it is brother.
Always! 😊 more news incoming but got a Dakar video to do first
It's kind of bizar that a CEO's all around the world can lie how ever they want and there is zero consequence for them.
Let’s see. We got Carlos Taveras over at Stellantis and also Jochen Zeitz over at Harley Davidson. Both watching Rome burn.
Those who make the rules……….
Far too many models, 25 different models of ktm, Why? No one needs that much choice, it’s ridiculous.
In the duke range alone,
200, 390, 640, 690, 790, 890, 950, 990, 1050, 1090, 1190, 1290, now the 1390. Seriously why so much choice?🤯can you imagine the complex production and logistics and the cost of all those spare parts.
Consumers got greedy, manufacturers got even more greedy.
Yeah... too much KTM models and too much rebranding for a lower price, Husqvarna and GasGas should be a more low cost brand like Royal Enfield and not based on the mid range Duke's and SMC. MV Agusta should be their Bugatti Veyron brand and create new rich people collector toys like some other known brand did with Lamborghini and Bentley
I agree
125, 200, 390 for the A2 licence and developing markets. It is price sensitive hence needs more options.
790 or 890 as middleweight
One or two litre bike 1390, 1290
Simple lineup then they can focus on reliability.
I was going to say this same thing. Make a couple options to simplify the manufacturing process and lower the cost for the consumer and allow them to modify the bike the way they want after purchase. It is what Japanese motorsports have been doing for years and it’s a working solution. Competitive pricing is the only way they will sell more bikes.
Add to that the fact that multiple bikes are wrapped a different color, for instance the 690 has the Husqvarna 701 and the GasGas SM 700. Same bike, different wrap.
Interesting thread 😊 I think too many models without enough real diversity was never a good plan. Modularity CAN be good but isn’t necessarily so
Let's Husqvarna be Swedish again
Unless someone wants to buy them out from under Chinese slavery? Rotsa Ruck wide eyes...
Would need someone with deep pockets 😊
This Will happen all over europe with all car and motor/ chemicals/ steel / .... Factorys. Many countries are still playing off thé Corona debt , thén theres thé Ukraine debt.. if you are Lucky you Will have a job in 2025.... If not. You Will have another job that pays less . And who needs a bike with 160 or more horsepower? You can do 30…50.70..90 and 120.. thé rest costs you your driving licence.. and with An enduro you Cant drive almost anywhere without being illegal.. that's what kills thé bikes sales for a great part .
@@ikvanachter6002lol. A cheery post 😊 I do get what you mean about stupid power on road bikes though. Especially when most people can’t ride 70hp to its limit 😊
@@barebonesmc that's thé truth. , they all want more power but there brain cant follow... I have seen enough " good " riders get themselves killed on a +150 Hp machine. ( Also on a 20hp machine; but that was a bad rider)
An average priced motorcycle today costs more than my first 10 automobiles combined. That may have something to do with it.
And a new automobile is 40,000. EVERYTHING HAS GONE UP. Comparing one thing from the past against something new makes no sense.
KTM's are the kind of thing, if you cant afford it, dont buy it. Like a BMW or an AUDI or a new full size truck. Dont buy em if they cost too much. (A new KTM 890R is about 18K, you could buy 10 new vehicles for 18K? Really?)
While It is partially true what you are saying but all brands went up in price... you now have to pay 19k for a Ducati SF 900cc V2 while for a bit less you had the best equiped 1200 Monster R in the past...
@ That’s your opinion, however, you assuming that my first 10 vehicles were new certainly makes less sense.
@@Poppi-G I don't know what you are saying but depending the popularity of the model second hand prices are cheap af
@ yeah it’s a buyers market on used bikes for sure. Wasn’t debating that. I was actually just trying to state a fact which is that the average new motorcycle today costs more than I paid for my first 10 vehicles. I had more than 10 vehicles by the time I was 20 (none of them were very expensive) but the fact I had stated remains. Sorry for the confusion.
I paid just short of £5,000 for my Yamaha MT-03 in 2021. It now as 8,230 miles on the clock, has been super reliable, and great fun to ride. At the age of 88, big bikes are just too heavy for me to manhandle around, hence the little Yam. The bonus being. I never really needed a big bike in the first place, the little Yam being loads of fun, cheap to buy, maintain, tax, insure etc. The price of big bikes is just silly now, and I can see a lot more manufacturers struggling in the near future.
88, great job. Next a Yammy powered gopher.
Certainly in the U.K. as the demographic gets older our wants change😊 and I think the days of the penile extensions are numbered 🤣🤣 the sub 400 category is the only sector growing in the U.K.
I wonder if Pierer Group has used KTM as a sort of sacrificial lamb, so to speak, to avoid restructuring their core business. It´s the only thing that makes a bit of sense because for one motorcycle manufacturer to get into a $3 Billion hole is hard to believe.
Well we KNOW they didn’t lose the money paying out warranty claims (denied). We know they didn’t spend it in the “customer service” department (unless they hired more people to tell customers “NO”). Maybe the Engineers with the know-how to make cams out of cheese and to turn off software and features that the customer already paid for are really demanding high salaries in the market place for their unique skill set? They had to set up the Extortion Department to extort money from those who wanted their “features” reactivated after the “demo” period. Not sure how much they spent to gobble up Husqvarna and GasGas? How much was paid in executive bonuses and acquisition for all the “good work” they were doing? Shame, because they turned out some very good motorcycles…when the motorcycles were running. Two years ago I ALMOST bought a Super Adventure 1290…but the dealer was “sketchy”…thanks be to Jesus NOW that I didn’t!
@@davidkendall1614 lol..
@@davidkendall1614 that demo mode alone is diabolical and they deserve what's coming for them, sad to the common employees but yeah.
The complex company structure leaves many questions unanswered
No wonder they fought so hard to deny camshaft failures and refuse to fix the problems they caused.
It is a sad tale
For sure, now it is quite clear why they acted the way then did
if they'd gone the opposite way and offered engine replacements the goodwill alone would have seen an uptick in sales and maybe kept the creditors quiet for a little longer. turning on your customers is a nail in the coffin and ktm's refusal to acknowledge the problem then refusal to accept responsability for a shitty design flaw... goodbye ktm, your new chinese overlords re: owners) will welcome you.
@@sideshow101101I don’t think it would have benefited the company much. Flagging motorcycle sales across all manufactures currently exists. They knew they couldn’t afford to replace engines and took the conservative cheaper option that would show some good will but wouldn’t break them.
They are fixing the camshaft issues under warranty even when they are out of warranty ❤
The goal is likely to achieve mass layoffs legally and transfer the jobs to where labor is cheap, a classic strategy for increasing profits for those at the top. Lots of little necessary moves to get there but the end result will be the same. Worst case scenario the company goes under but who cares right, those at the top still got paid.
Too many staff and riders suffering. But yep Pierer won’t suffer
Europe's largest motorcycle manufacturer isn't quite as impressive when it's also Europe"s most indebted.
Sounds like all of the EU
Yes, I can be Europe's "best and largest xyz company" when I borrow shit tons of someone else's money and blow it all. 🙂
😊😊
I wish people were passionate about quality and the efficiency of making something.
Honda seems to be able to hang onto this philosophy. BMW motorcars has imho fallen victim to massive over expansion and they’re just not different anymore. I don’t anything about the motorrad group but I hope they’re not going the same way.
@@mhoppy6639 Yeah, I wish Honda would have an option something for every price range and maybe just old school ads for them.
I’d agree on that one
Expensive bikes, with poor reliability and lack of repair parts, combined with a lack independent repair shop info or ECU tooling. There are customers going elsewhere. They need to get back to their roots and build a bike without all of the gadgets, like a TV screen for instrument display and keyless systems.
I understand emission controls on bikes , but give me a motorcycle with just Speedo and gas gauge. I can adjust my suspension manually and I can figure out what gear I’m in by myself. You don’t get all the electronics on bikes in third world countries and they seem to survive quite well.
Keep it simple 😊👌💪
Hardly a surprise… even in bankruptcy they can’t tell the truth about reliability!!
Ouch 🤣
The 90 days, will be used to persuade creditors to accept 10% on the euro as final settlement. My guess is that they will have to agree because i doubt whether the KTM company actually has any significant assets. When the creditors agree, as they must, KTM will try to borrow enough to pay them off and then the whole thing will probably start again.
The sums of money being toted about are absolutely huge, well beyond the value of any assets held and well beyond anything that could have accrued within a 12 month period. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that KTM has been trading whilst insolvent for years.
Lucky your doubt is baseless
They have over €3.6 billion in assets
@ Where did you get that information from please?
@@J.Harry.T
Why didn’t you find that out before posting your comment?
Because from your comment you’re anything but a genius
@@ianjohnson1207 Can you back up your statement or not? I suspect not. The very fact that KTM has gone into administration should tell you that it cannot honour its debts and liabilities, which were initially quoted as €100 million. That would have been no problem at all to any company with (as you claim) €3 billion in assets. The facts will become clear in due course. In the meantime i will disregard your rudeness and your invented figures.
@@J.Harry.T
Excuse me! I don’t have to back up anything, the brass neck on you.
All the financial information is easily found if you half half a brain, so looks like that’s why you’re struggling
Do you think I’m your personal secretary 🤔
Hard to see a future with this amount of debt!
Yep
Translation: We're living on Chinese cash transfusions until the bank finishes the transfer paperwork to "Wei Fling Pu Motors", LLC; Hong Kong. Auf Weidersehn....
A subsidiary of Whoflungdung? 🤣
Subcontracted through "KenweefkmNwhen"
@@howardosborne8647 - They're both under the corporate umbrella of "The IBS Group". 😁
Chief corporate jet pilot Sum Ting Wong.
@@janetyeoman1544CEO Wun Hung Lo 😂
An excellent piece of work by yourself sir cutting through the corporate BS spot on.
Cheers mate 😊 I’ve written so much marketing material I’m not blinded by the bull😊😊
Extra payment 1000 eur just to unlock 890 adventure riding modes (on allready expensive bike), camshaft problems, not so good reliability , bad service experience ... etc is for me reason why i riding nowadays T7
I understand that one
I forced KTM to buy my 790 Ad R off me after 6 months off the road, I will never own another KTM.
Riding another brand now.
Love the ralley footage along with the updated news. Carry on , Sir.
Dakar news coming😊😊
It’s sad for the employees. And the people that brought them thanks for sharing brother.
Well put
Where I from, hiring a yes man for higher position is called "Job for Mates"
Yep
KTM and the PMG have always been just about the money, never about their people or customers!
It's taken 10 years, but the Nov 26 announcement was a sweet birthday present for me!
The terrible handling of the takeover of Husqvarna left me with a bike in warranty, but without support, and worse still, put hundreds of Italian workers out of a job overnight.
Loyal Husaberg owners were also cut loose, KTM having bought them just to finish them as competition.
Then they moved on to Gas Gas, rolled out the same 'There'll be no adverse effects on the brand and workforce', then smack - All finished overnight the same as Husky.
It amuses me greatly to see the company financially bankrupt, as they have been morally bankrupt for years!
They don't look after their customers, indeed they use them as an 'army' of test engineers. (TPI, Xplor, anyone)??? 🤔
They have marketed READY TO RACE but not been even close to this, certainly not in the Enduro bikes, with inferior suspension and lack of standard equipment compared to other brands.
I hope the company suffers a takeover from the Indians or the Chinese, it will be justice served 👍
I totaly concur.
Still got my '92 610TE.
@@Danger_mouse well said.
@@Emily-ou6lq TE449 for me, followed by 3 x Shercos. 👍
@@Danger_mouse 🥂
We’ll know it’s a conspiracy if nobody bids. If enough debt is written down, and the product line reduced, there ought to be a business in here somewhere.
Sometimes, creditors make an example of a restructuring and refuse to sign off on a debt write off. They’re entitled to seek liquidation as the last resort. Hope this doesn’t happen but how the dickens did they rack up so much debt?
They have to have very bad management to screw up so good and liked brand. Overpriced and too many models, no sense idea to into sport bikes, motoGP etc
Overstretched for sure
I agree, keep the model range relevant and simple.
Ktm
Bought a 1290 sas 2023 , never going to buy KTM ever again, abs pump issue causing panic brake randomly, started to have coolant lost 250ml in 4 days and counting , paint peeling everywhere on the clutch bracket and reservoir , battery drain issue , between 50-80km the steering will wobble uncontrollably , if you let go and will also go right instead of straight. There was also a chemical / electrical smell when starting in the garage , the wireless key even in the bike compartment kept being out of range . KTM dealer said everything was "normal" . The adaptive cruise control took them a month to fix . I traded it and never looking back , lost thousands but that was better then keeping it. Dangerous bike. Believe everything you see in forums about KTM , it’s not exaggerated. Extremely unreliable!
Yet their Off road dirt bike models are bulletproof.. can go over 100 hours without changing parts, japanese equivalent bikes go about 60 hours before needing replacement parts
BS. 2019 KTM 1290 SAR, 5 years, 50k kms, no issues.
@@henryvaneyk3769 I have experience 950, 990, 1190, 1290 (2018 I liked this best), and latest 1290. All R models and driven about 40-50 tkm. Only major issue has been 1190 air filter. And it was fixed by guarantee. I've been lucky!
Sorry mate. Sadly stories like that seem all too common
Nice to hear happier stories
I personally sold off ALL of my KTM's in 2022. I could see the quality going in the garbage and KTM screwing the customers.
Sad times
Bajaj will probably buy the second half of ktm stakes since they are cheaper now.
😊 we shall see in time😊
Make the same bikes but pull all the stupid electronics out of them so that they are reliable again
Maybe😊
I was seriously considering a KTM300 hard Enduro bike but the 13,000€ for a two stroke dirt bike sent me looking elsewhere. I bought a Rieju 300 PRO and saved thousands of euros. It’s a real GASGAS , not a rebranded KTM!
Yeah and does that Rieju have EFI and an electronic power valve? Also 13,000€ is not the MSRP for the 300 XC-W and I’d have to believe you know that
@ I did not want EFI or all the electronics. I also wanted a kickstart , premix and KYB suspension with linkage. For the hard Enduro 300 my local dealer quoted me 13,000€ plus IVA.
@@user-se7vt5ow4e I realize they may not be your thing. What I’m saying is, it’s not just “a 2 stroke”. Far more developed than other 2 strokes
I bought a Beta 300 rr two stroke. $3700 cheaper than the 300 KTM.Its a no brainer . 😂😂
Good thread 😊
Bilions in debt.
They ain't selling enough bikes to get out of that.
I doubt it 😊
The have over €3.3 billion in assets
Will be selling LESS with this hanging around their neck. Who wants a bike with suspect “warranty” and plummeting resale value, not to mention proven reliability and customer service issues, when the company is on the brink? Big supply, low demand, falling prices, bad reputation, PR and goodwill in the shitter. Good luck KTM. Chinese buyout and long road to recovery I suspect, if even THAT is possible.
slash prices and firesale half their range, keep only those that sell well, sell of the subsiduary brands to china (in the hope they don't just buy ktm alltogether) and consolidate what's left. maybe they might surivive but yeah, billions in debt mormally means they're toast.
@@ianjohnson1207 where?
What?
When companies think they can bank on just their brand name and not work towards organizational efforts and customer satisfaction. This was bound to happen. Hope the loyalists dont get stranded
well put my friend :-) and yep it is the staff and the faithful that i feel sorry for, and i do hope a solution comes. february will be crucial, so i guess he is hoping that Daniel Sanders or the Benavides brothers bring home the trophy
Thanks for keeping us informed. I had the 690 Duke R 73 bhp from a single i loved it.I had the 1190 Adventure R when it came out, the battery supplied was not big enough! I could not trust the bike to start so i sold it. After that the big Adventure bikes seemed to have issues with the electronics. If you use a bike for travelling you need to be able to trust it.I did not like the Demo mode, i beieve that created bad will with KTM buyers before the cadbury cams.
More news incoming. Staff didn’t get paid for December and even fighting in the factory
Really good info thanks. I like all your thoughts on this.
Glad it was helpful mate
Too bad. They're one of the last manufacturers that offers that big V-twin performance. Love em or hate em there's nothing else on the market like their LC8 platform.
They do put the sizzle in the steak, but Fritz doesn't think about letting the grease drain away when he cooks up an idea.
I’m sure Ducati would argue 😊 but in truth. How many can actually use that power? I know a guy who replaced his 990 with a 1290 and has been trying to buy the 990 back ever since. I think that says something 😊
& austria needs to take him to court for fraud.
@@321-Gone not to get political, but Austria is not exactly a law abiding country, there is white collar crime everywhere there, just ask Raifeissen about Russia.
There are six board members do keep up and don’t everything on here as gospel
there were 6 board members until he booted out the whole board
@@barebonesmc
Yes now down to two, the comment was to the poster’s comment “Austria needs to take him to court for fraud”
There were six board members when this happened not one man allegedly committing fraud
The price of KTM to buy,run,and residual values are terrible, unfortunately many bike manufacturers have hiked bike prices to an unbelievable level, hence the Chinese stepped in and put's the last nail I'm the coffin
I’ve been saying for years they got lazy n greedy 😊
How does one person get how’s responsible for the P&L and more importantly, accountable, still remain in his position. I’m speechless. Thanks for the update on this one and all of your content.
More news incoming but it will take time to check out
@ I look forward to it mate!
@@marcusgeorge1825 they’ve withdrawn from the mv deal not paid Decembers wages and now fights in the factory. No 790 or 890 heads/cams available and no more built till March at least so parts already hit
I would never buy a KTM after the way they treated me in 2000.
I crashed my 620 supercomp supermoto.
KTM, we're in the process of moving factories.
This meant there were no spare parts for my bike.
I spoke to the boss at KTM uk.
He said it was the dealers fault for not stocking enough spare parts.
My bike was off the road for months.
Never again.
Sounds crap. As I’ve said before. Near me I get both ends of the spectrum. The main dealer is terrible but theees a guy who just does the dirt bikes who always holds stock is really helpful and doesn’t charge the earth for parts
No dealer keeps lots, or any parts on the shelf, it just cost too much to have all that money lying out, apart from basic consumables
KTM should have stuck to their bread and butter - 690cc and down dirt bikes and dual sports. Our local KTM dealer went out of business because KTM forced them to stock all sorts of extra-large displacement, brutally expensive adventure and road bikes that they couldn't sell nor afford to keep. I have been riding for 52 years, and have probably only seen ten KTM motorcycles over 800cc in my area, and these were just passing through. Local dealers shouldn't be forced to keep expensive models that absolutely will not sell in their area.
I do know more people who ride bigger ones. But it is the attitude that stinks
@@barebonesmc KTM should at least allow their dealers to decide which bikes they need to stock {and pay interest on) based on what sells in their area. Besides, any bike could always be ordered or brought in from another dealership.
@@ralphcantrell3214that would help some for sure
My Genuine hope is that all of the companys involved in this nightmare survive and become more robust in the long run,they are all good brands with great potential and their employees do not deserve this degree of stress and uncertanty.
Kind words. I do feel for the staff
Great coverage and deep thoughts as always. Cheers!
Wish it was better news
@@barebonesmc Being an MX dad, where both I and the kid are riding white KTMs.... Been following this debacle for some time now... With original spare parts potentially coming to a halt as well.... How is the aftermarket reacting? Will we be able to keep our toys running? A true nail-biter...
@@matsnaslund2940 I've been following the debacle since the early 80s
@@matsnaslund2940 time will tell. It’s not good for riders but I do hope better news comes
@@Emily-ou6lq lol 😊 once a berg man 😊😊😊
Ktm makes some spectacular bikes, im sorry to hear this.
Not good news
As I am not familiar with the rigor of management, I cannot help but feel sad for the employees due to the record in endurance that KTM has, even when they entered MotoGP, I already anticipated that in a short time KTM would teach Aprilia and Ducati a lesson in terms of who was going to be the most competitive European manufacturer but unfortunately sometimes those who risk a lot end up not getting the return they expect. The thing that is right to say is that the world is really in a process of regeneration, no one knows for sure which way it is safe to turn and with global crisis after crisis it is very difficult.
Wise words
The one thing that i find incredible is the lack of spares support ( and thats not just for KTM ) Aprilia are at fault here too....people are keeping bikes for longer and, to a certain extent wanting to keep those bikes running also. Suzuki have understood that and put old bikes on the heritage program and produce bike spares for the old gsxr etc etc. I cannot get some spares for my old rsv4 factory (the very first one) - also own an sxv550 and part for that are even more scarce...if they want to make money start producing spares for the old bikes...youll clean up..! And yes just to add in...prices for bikes left me behind 15 years ago..!
Good points. I agree
Sad to hear this! Sad also the most every major global corporation
puts profits before people…. letting their people know via RUclips this a sad, sad situation.
It is just surreal and shows how disconnected he is
I'm glad I bought my Yamaha T7 ...took many for a ride including KTM's 790,890 nice to ride and yes suspension and power better......but one thing I was shocked with was the engine sounded like a bucket of bolts ....this alone put this engineer off these machines. However the Yamaha CP2 engine sounds beautiful at any rev and I use all of them...... alot!!! 31k now and oil changes and many tyres all its had!! Very Happy!!
Oh that seat though lol. Only fit for a passenger you hate🤣🤣
Robust....apart from 690, 790 & 890 valve train. 690 fuel pumps etc. I will miss them, having owned and enjoyed several. Lots of attitude and excitement - the whole point of motorcycling.
I can see that perspective. Remember bikes are different for everyone though😊 but always sad to loose any brand
Dont worry, they are only play time/hobby items.....no big loss
Ouch 😂
Megalomania, serious quality problems combined with Pierer taking to much money out of the company. They must cut 80% of their BS activities and go back to the core business.
I can’t disagree
$3 Billion debt with 5000 employees is a very rough position. The last 10 years of KTM’ brand acquisition spree and infrastructure expansions have inflicted several large and perhaps long term fatal moves. Coolest is not most profitable ??? Wow ? I’m a share holder because I bought 5 new KTM 450 exf ‘s over the past 15 years. The quality is fantastic !!! Let’s not loose the magic ingredients of people who have and can only make this happen !!! People !!!!
Well put sir. The people PMG have treated so badly though. I will hope for the future but it looks bleak
A 30 day warranty on a $15,000 2 stroke 300 is what killed the 2 stroke sales. Sherco , Beta and TM were offering 12 months . Beta and TM still have the option for the more punchy bottom end carburetor models .
Often overlooked 😊
Look at the USA distribution center. It is massive and amazingly extravagant. Vast open spaces that are amazing for a motorcycle company. When I toured it I was impressed but having been in the business for 45 years and being a part of the British factories final years I wondered how KTM could afford such extensive spending on appearance. Could the sales numbers pay for this opulence? Guess not.... Like the vast sums BSA spent in 1970-71 KTM spent their assets foolishly. So very sad and I am a KTM owner.
There are some parallels for sure. February will be telling
Happens when you make crappy products, people have been complaining about issues with their KTM bikes for a long time and nothing has as addressed…. They deserve to go under at this point
Harsh😊
Same issue.. the "want" to sleep 😉 with the enemy 😅😂😅
😊
looking at the crazy range of ktm bikes and the number of subsiduary brands i can see how they ended up $3B in debt. add on the now typical not-my-problem response to 890 camshafts problems and 'premium' pricing too... goodbye loyal customer base.
Lesson 1 don’t piss the customer off
I was seriously thinking about purchasing an MV Agusta triple recently. I had no idea how thin of ice their parent company was on!
There’s less info on MV than anyone else in the company
Greed + Misjudgement = Pierer = KTM broke.
About right there 😊
except for fixing material problem on camshaft and pricing ,sell it to Chinesse.
Why would they buy it they’ve already got the tech. And cf moto probably have a better name right now 🤣🤣
Bought a 24 “ 790 Adv , guess it’s a keeper cuz it’s worth pennies on the dollar, might just park it in the living room as a conversation piece
Yt blocked my comment 🤣🤣 good luck with it mate
I had a 05 300exc, great bike, very reliable, great suspension, powerful engine. I had a 15 1290 Super Duke, also a great bike, reliable, suspension, powerful. I was offered a trade for a 18 1290. But I don't want or trust fob ignition switch or gas cap release.
Experience with these systems have shown them to be subject to interference from many possible sources. Your phone, other fobs, coins or metal objects too close to the bike fob.
Oh the electronics 🤣🤣
Who will buy it, the indians or chinese? Another sad loss.
that's the thing though, it seems as if Stefan Pierer is doing everything he can to not allow KTM to be controlled by anyone but himself. Obviously Bajaj would probably be the best bet from a business perspective, but KTM would never be the same.
Time will tell I guess
There should be only one focus: the loyal buyers. They need to get them back on board. I have an 890 that’s been in the dealer for a starting problem since July and, not unreasonably, I asked that the cams be checked. It’s been in for over 4 months. A misalignment on the rear wheel was spotted which I expected to be repaired or replaced under warranty but being stonewalled. A bike with careful use only by me or the dealer, never off-road, dry garaged and sub 3,000 miles. I’m less than impressed. I also have a 690 Enduro in the US and a 701 Enduro here in the UK both of which I love. Like BMW (who I left), poor quality and poor service.
For me the company attitude is what’s gone wrong
@ That’s exactly it. When you forget the customer you’re lost. Let’s hope KTM can find themselves before it’s too late.
Insiders I have spoken to have said that the MotoGP experiment will be closed down immediately and that outsourcing engines to CFMoto has killed the brands reliability reputation. When you are charging a big premium in price and you do not have reliability, you have nothing. Dakar support will be confined to only one team and production will be focused on the more affordable end of the price range, but a 125? Seriously? In parts of the world where dealers and support are scarce, the brand carries a theme that if you plan to venture into the desert, you better have a truck full of spares as a support, or take a Honda.
Bench testing the engines made by CFMoto show that they fail within 50,000kms, and that puts them at odds with countries that have tough consumer laws. An examination of the camshaft problem reveals that its the basic oil system design thats at fault with only 50psi being achieved above 6000rpm, with less than 20psi showing at 3-4,000 RPM. Add to that the bad design of the cam fingers and you have a disaster. Its rumoured that engineers from Suzuki were consulted and their report was scathing. The losses from rectifying this are estimated to exceed $400m. It will not be the first motorcycle manufacturer that failed at the cliff of unreliability. Should someone buy a new or used KTM? Not in a million years.
Interesting. I’d like to know more here 😊
Reported in various motorsports sites today KTM are continuing with a private test for the Motogp bikes and they will be racing in 2025 and 2026
@@paddy6859I’ll guess matoschitz money there. Red bull a lot to loose
I had a 1090 Adventure, in theory a nice bike and ,in practice, yes, nice when it was working. Overcomplex IT killed it (and the KTM-branded luggage fell apart). 6 months was enough!
Honestly. The 1090 was my favourite. The 790 I had briefly just wasn’t put together well at all. Nothing actually fitted very well panel gaps seat rattle bolts not torqued properly. All sorts. N it was almost brand new
KTM bike prices are out of control. Concentrate on the prices. Also get rid of everything that is not KTM Enduro or Motocross bikes.
I did like the 950 through to 1190. But they just got lost in the bigger is better charade
I wonder if this will affect replacement part prices
I told a mate with a 990 to start buying up parts well over a month ago now. That’s what I’d be doing
Bikes are way to much money and people don't have the money .
Yep. The idea of cheap transport is gone in U.K.
I want to avoid needing a blood transfusion. The blood supply is now contaminated with mRNA and nano components.
Motorcycling / motorcycles are not what they used to be .. 60/70/80/90s and 2000 they’re all way to expensive
It’s the high interest rates, not necessarily the money !
Ktm's* are too expensive
I was planning to buy a KTM but with an impending bankruptcy I'm not going to take the risk and will look at other brands.
February will be key. But more news incoming every day still
The dream of Pierer is becoming reality: a pure Indian/Chinese company.
Austria plant will be closed for sure, leaving workers, banks and tax office with some cents each one. Operation achieved.
😊
It would be extra sad if Husqvarna and MV Agusta get dragged down with them :(
Very much so. But looks like 2 of the 3 are already insolvent. End of February will be a key time
Virtually all motor cycle manufacturers suck, and deserve to go under! The reason for this statement is simple! They and I mean all manufacturers, are designing bikes that are not what the average biker needs or wants! Every modern motorcycle suffers from way too much unnecessary and costly technology, way too much plastic styling, and way not enough practicality. Furthermore, motor bikes have become extremely heavy, extremely expensive to buy and maintain, and most importantly, they have no soul! One of the most important things that separate bikes from cars, is that bikes (use) to have souls, character, a desire to kick it over and the freedom of the road! But not anymore, all modern bikes are water cooled , with pug ugly engines , and no kickstarter! today , you get a blacked out mass of pipes and nothing to look at! The 40's 50's 60' and 70's were the zenith of simple beautiful motor bike design. The manufacturers realise it, and try to " re-imagine" the vintage bikes and always fuck it up! I'm just surprised how long these companies have existed , when they have all clearly lost their way! A simple example to finish with: I downsized because of health issues from a BMW R Nine T Scrambler 1200cc bike, to a tiny step through Honda SH I 125. Its a lovely little practical twist and go with a 125cc water cooled engine. However, it has keyless ignition, and start stop technology FFS! so that at traffic lights, the engine will automatically switch off, to save the environment, and petrol! A scooter that small doesn't need these features, and why not an air cooled engine and a kickstarter! I guess I will have to switch to a Chinese scooter next time at half the cost, and just as good! Point proven I think!
wow, you said the F word and youtube didnt block it PMSL :-) have to agree with much of your comment :-) and kudos for beating the bot cleanser :-) not sure how you managed that one :-) have a great weekend
I expect a Chinese group will buy K.T.M out. manufacturing moved to China with a small K.T.M factory in Austria as an European distribution facility. There again I remember what happened to K.T.M in the seventies and eighties. History repeating its self.
Time will tell😊
Bajaj in India already have a large stake in KTM. Not hard to imagine them taking the reins.
The most likely outcome will be the carving up of assets to the highest bidders. It matters who holds Pierer debt. If the bankers involved are closely connected to European power brokers, there could be a government bailout.
I would guess that Bajaj is keeping a very close eye on things. It might present them with the opportunity to assume ownership of a worldwide distribution network that is bigger than what Royal Enfield has built. I see stories posted online about big problems facing the German car makers so it's not surprising KTM finds itself in a bit of a pickle.
Other than excess stock I don’t think they have many real assets
@@barebonesmc There will be some lenders that take a haircut.
@@jimbroen 😂😂
Three times I waited for a part for four months. My friend is waiting for a top end for five months. He got two and they were defected and returned. I called and emailed tens of times and never got a reply.
Never again.
I will not touch KTM with a stick.
Beta and bmw are just great bikes for road and off road. Pick your tool and get the support you want!
Sorry mate. I hate any riders being let down
Yes indeed, you called it & while I was never close to purchasing any of their products, it was due to higher costs & their required
top end motor checks at the dealer. For someone like myself it's not advantageous to have a high wired piece of equipment when
I lack the knowledge and money to keep my warranty afloat? I suspect many buy their products only to struggle keeping up all the
maintenance & failing to do so might void your warranty = which would suck! I suppose guys who race or just love high end types
of machines w/ little regard for their upkeep would buy right in. And what now.... I heard what they said about everything flowing
like usual but I seriously doubt that as a statement to keep the stock a little higher while they dump a few million shares that they
accidentally "Shorted" on the market - WHooPs, how could we have known it would drop like a ROCK = Rock ON $$$$
I hope all is well & that everyone is warm. We're just dealing w/ it all on a day by day basis here. Granted 1 more day !
Peace brother 😊 cold here but at least I’ve finally got a kitchen again and no more contractors 🤣🤣 got a lot going on right now but surviving😊 winter not my favourite time but we do have Dakar to look forward to
Nothing like a Culinary Korner to feed our face.... lol, you know it's, "Always something". I right with you on what's going on
and I only have 2 choices? So I'm thinking about your next installment as part of my survival technique / methodology as
the worlds turns/churns & BURNs..... We've got front row seats to the greatest time to be alive. I wouldn't miss it for the
world & I'm glad that I know you. I can't fully explain that but some things don't need an explanation, IMO. I'm glad you
are giving a fight back at any/all that stepped against you! How's the little lady? Well I hope & with that I'll say peace
from the Great State of Texas. Ya'll take care & I'll see you on the next reel of film.... peace & GB You guys
The problem is the ceo and other higher ups are paid way to much 😊
lol do you mean they pay themselves far too much? 😊😊😊
@ yeah that exactly what I said
@@Lonewolf_hI just reworded it for effect 😊
Been servicing most bike brands over 30 years now and I don't like the way KTM operates. Why clean the three cleanable oil screens when servicing when you can charge the customer 60 dollars to replace them every time. Other manufactures use oil screens and recommend cleaning and inspecting for damage but they tend to last the life of the machine. Not fond of buying a bike then having to pay extra to make all the options it came with work either it's just greedy. All of the smaller bikes they sell are either made in India or China and are poor quality. Had one with a bad fuel pump right from the factory and along with that some of the fasteners holding body work to the tank were cross threaded in.
No manufacturer in the U.K. would recommend cleaning oil screens/filter
Have never ever witnessed this in my career
Cleaning screens yes. Cleaning filters?
Should i buy gasgas 700sm for 8.5K eur new , what are your thoughts........
If you are asking me if I would I would probably say no. Parts supply will be key. End of feb a key time
We won't be getting many SX, XC or EXC models this year. They definitely won't be moving any Factory Editions
I will be buying all the OEM RFS parts I can find in the next 90 days.
Been telling mates to buy up parts for about a month now😊👍
Not the same field but Wolksvagen is next. The EU motor & car producers are under pressure from Chinese rivals.
There are big problems at vw so I wonder where Ducati stand in it all too
Even the Chinese are in trouble. People just aren't buying.
@@bernardwatts5339 Chinese and Indian bike sales still growing
@@barebonesmc in China and India
@@bernardwatts5339yep that’s what I meant. The west seems to be committing hari kari but slowly. sadly China and India have a growing middle class with more disposable income and consequently are buying more bikes. Bikes beyond basic urban transport too
Nothing will change? They will probably drop a couple companies within their portfolio. I just hope Husqvarna isn’t sold off to someone who has no idea about motorcycles. I was interested in a 2024 401 Vitpillen
Here’s hoping
Ok. KTM is dead if its 2.3 billion euros. There is no way they can sell off parts and get enough cash.
The only way out is a buyout. And a buyout will come with layoffs.
They’ve already payed off 1000 in Austria and no production till at least March now. All production lines stopped for 10 weeks minimum
Your headline is wrong they aren’t bankrupt and they are not €3 billion in debt
€1.3 billion in debt the rest is liability
They also have assets of over €3.3billion
Sorry but there’s no way in hell (except by their own valuation) that they have 3 billion in assets. And if the money was so easy to raise why did they choose administration? Show me where you are getting these numbers because you are the only one saying anything like
@
It’s all there in the 2024 HT KTM financial report, no company can just value their own assets to make their financial results better or what they think the value is, they are audited by a third party
You should know that!
It’s on page 14 of 44
Assets aren’t the problem cash flow is, if you’re cash flow has reduced significantly that’s the problem
@ianjohnson1207 I’ll have a look again when I have time but it’s obvious we aren’t going to agree. February will tell if I was right or not I guess. We see things from a different perspective. That much is obvious 😊
@@barebonesmc
I’m not disagreeing with you, it’s not my opinion, I’ve just read the HT financial report which is a legal document that has to be independently reviewed before it’s accepted and published
Otherwise it’s fraud
@ianjohnson1207 and of course. No ceo has ever committed fraud or bent the truth ever. If you look at the numbers Pierer himself has quoted they always change from statement to statement. What is it they say. There are lies. Damn lies and statistics. A good mathematician (or maketing department) can and will make any figures they wan fit their agenda. That is the way of businesss 😊 have a good weekend anyway mate
After owning a 390 adventure with nothing but problems, good luck! Too bad what a terrible company but good bikes. No one has money for overpriced crap!
Cutting out, screen misting by any chance?
I wish there were less of these stories 😔
Hahaha what happens when they make shit bikes at unrealistic prices.. and worst of all stopped make 2 strokes.. its them 4 strokes that bankrupt them and them stupid track cars that are pretty much plastic. Hahaha
But they still make 2 strokes?
The economy is collapsing its not just KTM.
I hear VW, BMW and Mercedes all have huge problems. Their China operations are a disaster.
Not everywhere 😊
An article in Forbes says KTM has till Feb to make a corporate Hail Mary before being forced into bankruptcy.
Yep. If you listen that’s what I say. It’s a newly introduced legislation givi them 90 days because they failed to raise the 640 million needed to keep creditors at bay within the 2 weeks prior
Bajaj is hovering nearby,id say maybe sort of precipitated it in a backdoor take over presented by managments ineptitude at ktm.
We shall see. They are best placed to and with the most to loose
@barebonesmc yup my thoughts too.theyll get it even cheaper out of bankruptcy than what KTM management tried to stand them up for is what I think
I hope the public doesn’t do like they usually do and pile on a brand that’s struggling all while ignoring all the amazing bikes they’ve produced. The sheep follow the herd and negative publicity like this usually becomes contagious. I hope we as a community can instead rally to try to keep this amazing motorcycle company around.
Well put. I try and be reasonable and to be fair. My criticism is of the company not the bikes. I think if Pierer stepped down that red bull cf moto and bajaj COULD put a viable rescue plan together between them. But while he stays it will be almost impossible
How can a bank have the irresponsibly to let a business get that deep…ridiculous
Indeed
KTM's slogan, “Ready to Race,” seems to limit their options.
I think they should spend their resources on improving reliability.
Dunno if they have any resources left 🤣
I love my 500EXC, but I also would be perfectly fine with a Honda CRF450RL and would love to see Yamaha make a 450 dual sport again. What happened to the WR250R?!
I will be in the market for a new 450-500 dual sport soon. I'm not sure I'll get another KTM because of their current issues. Probably go with the CRF450RL unless KTM works things out.
Personally I think I’d be looking at sherco or beta now. Or possibly fantic even
Karma for ending husaberg 😊. 3 brands, same market and only cosmetic differences a commercial strategy? Not a succesful one.
Well put😊
For enduro bikes In the UK, it's not really the price, reliability, or after care. For us where I live, it's the police. We have 100s of miles of the perfect countryside. For these bikes. Now, don't get me confused with parks conservation areas I'm talking coal tips old mines quarrys that sort of stuff but we get hunted constantly. I would love if they brought out a off road licence that cost me £500 a year and I hand it over and off I ride. I'd happily buy a bike pay my off road licence. Lots of friends I've riden with have stopped buying these bikes because we can't use them.
It is getting harder
Would love to see Shineray buy back the Husqvarna name plate and move the production back to Varese, Italy in the swm plant
😊 now that’s a curved ball I hadn’t considered 😊
Not buying a KTM until they bring down the price to where it needs to be for the quality and matching level of reliability. And they stop gouging with those ticky tack subscription services which should come standard on the higher end bikes. And oh yeah, maybe they get a better CEO who actually cares about customers.
😊
I don't think I've ever listened to a horror story with such beautiful video footage. Well done.
I have 21k miles on my 2023 DesertX (18 month old). Glad I didn't buy a KTM or Husky. 😆
How you finding the desert x? The footage was from valley of doom final stage last year. Tiziano from Rally POV