I have a 2014 1190 Adventure. Had it from new. The dealer wants £200 to update the firmware from v2.3 to v3 and told me that I need to sign a form so that in the case they brick the ECU they take no liability. The upgrade effectively removes the bugs that have been in there since day 1 and makes the instrument panel work as it should have from the factory. It's not a repair, it's putting it right as it should have been from day 1. Shocking support.
If KTM have been that arrogant towards it's customers particularly with the Camshaft issue and the additional charge for reactivating software then I have no sympathy with the company and they deserve all they get. Seems to me that customers have stopped voting with their wallets and it's come back to bite them on the bum. I hope for the sake of dealers and customers that the business is sold on to people who are more customer focused and take a more proactive role in both keeping those customers who have been loyal to the brand and produce a quality product that attracts new buyers.
Royal Enfield sold 100k bikes last month. On pace to sell well over a million in 2024. Why? Affordable, reliable bikes the market wants. RIP KTM and HD.
I wanted to buy a KTM 790 Adventure Rally in 2020. The dealer didn’t offer a test ride opportunity, so I ended up with a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE. No regrets ever since! My next bike will likely be a Honda or a RE.
Royal Enfields are Indian made and as such have a huge domestic market. KTMs cost a mint and are not everyones cup of tea. I wouldnt buy one, i think there ugly and even their road bikes look like dirt bikes.
@@johnmoylan7202 Could it be that your HD is almost a 20-year old model? They were not "state of the art" or of any advanced technology back then, but they were reliable and long lasting. To be honest... if you have a 1400 c.c. putting out just 70-80 hp, there is no real stress on the engine. You just need to have quality metal parts. And when charging i.e. 20-30.000 for a (non-performance) bike, you should have!
Absolutely spot on… I’m not into biking these days but done my fair share of youthful adventures. It’s always the same in whichever sector you look at corporate greed takes hold at some point😢. As a few others have commented we should stand up to this crazy capitalist carry on and vote with our wallets much earlier.
Being a former CFO myself, i am obliged to disagree. The fall of KTM financially comes basically from inventory build up and i would have requested to adjust production quickly to reduce stock. The problem with KTM is they didn't have a CFO but a chief accountant saying yes sir to the CEO. This kind of company is not financially oriented, they are sacrificing everything to performance and this is what makes them less reliable than others, The CEO and the Sales Manager are interested by specs. not by financial results or good service.
I dipped my toe into the KTM world .. bought a brand new 790 Duke in 2019 ... got shot of it earlier this year after numerous oil leaks, 12 warranty claims made, several batteries bought and worsening top end rattles, the cam issue being the nail in the coffin for my time with KTM. It was a great fun bike to ride .. when it worked properly ..... unfortunately I never knew if it was going to work properly or not each time I fired it up. Now back on a Honda and enjoying a bike that just works how it's supposed to every time the starter button is pressed, sure it's not as exciting to ride as the 790 but also doesn't bring a whole load of the "is it broken AGAIN??" anxiety that came with the KTM .....
KTM died because 1) stupid design, insect bikes are a niche. 2) greed, overpriced MSRP and than daring to charge for features already on the bike. 3) trust, outsourcing to china, lying about the cam shaft issues, the false neutral and heads on the 690s, the am chain tension on the 1290 etc.
I am a former KTM owner. It was great to ride, but hideous to own. It was the most expensively unreliable bike I have ever owned. I would never buy another KTM.
I've had several used Ktm's over the years and have just bought a very nice Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 which has the fantastic Ktm 690 single in it. I've found them to be very reliable and massively fun motorcycles and would definitely buy another one at the drop of a hat!
I bought a Vitpilen 3 years ago. The horn was not working, I found it’s connector was not inserted all the way in, I fixed that. The dash was crooked, I found that one of its mounting screws was not all the way in because it was screwed in crooked and it’s threads were partly stripped and jammed tight. I had to back that screw out, cleaned all the metal shavings out, reinstalled it straight on before it was able to fully thread all the way in. The bike definitely did not go through any quality control. This is my first and last Husqvarna/KTM.
That’s a dealer shortfall more than manufacturing. Some bikes come mostly ready others are assembled by dealer. Your bike was more than likely assembled incorrectly by dealer. Either way poor quality control.
My mate loved his 390 duke. But three screen replacement. And a couple of other faults put him off, and sold it. Lost loads too as at the time KTM knocked £1500 off the list price. Devaluing the used bikes.
@@MindfulMotorcyclist The challenges of making business work in idiocracy 😂 . The faulty cam engines were made in west and at the same time people shunned the firm for collaborating with the chinese that didn't had that problem on the CFM 's
@@ketelin4285 So very true - pity that KTM didn't actually read the email from CFMoto that said "Do you mind if we redesign the inlet cam lubrication?" lol
Horrible angry robotic wasp design. But that is not only KTM, most companies opt for that "aesthetic". Tbh i think Kawasaki started this bshit, ages ago.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Desperately trying to appeal to the younger digital generation, they don't realise that sex sells, it must have curves, it's subliminal and inside everyone, males and females.
One wonders how expensive the KTM decision not to give bikes to Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman actually was to them. KTM was the first choice, mainly at Charlie’s insistence for ‘Long Way Round’ but KTM didn’t want to be a part of it as they didn’t think the bikes would make it and it would create adverse publicity. So, Ewan and Charlie reluctantly went with BMW GS’s and the rest is history. The exponential growth of GS sales was directly attributable to that first series of programmes and worth hundreds of millions to BMW.
In all fairness KTBoom💥 were not wrong in doubting the ability of their bikes to survive a world marathon. I remember KTM's dominance in Motocross & enduro. But their competition bikes always sacrificed longevity for performance. So I was very skeptical about that market model working on day to day road bikes & obviously it didn't.
The whole "demo mode" idea is an absolutely disgusting practice and anyone who thinks otherwise has to be monumentally stupid. That kind of greed never deserves to go unpunished. and any car or bike manufacturer who adopts such disgraceful shite would never get my custom/money. Disclaimer: KTM never appealed to me, I don't even like them in video games 🤣 I just never saw what the "attraction" was. Aesthetically they are the epitome of vulgar and crass to my eyes.
Compleatly agree,, When the demo mode thing came in I let rip saying what a load of rubbish it was,,but the KTM fanboys piled in saying how wrong I was and it was the best thing since sliced bread,,,, As for owning one ,,, no, never ever appealled,,even the 390 which is in my smallish bike bracket just never looked right.... I expect now the prices are going to plumbmet,, fancy if you just bought one of those big 1390s,,, I bet you,v lost half your value.
A lot of car makers (BMW for example) have features connected through a SIM card that only function for 12 months or the warranty period. Granted they’re not as fundamental as the KTM tech but it may well be where the idea came from.
@@michaelnorris45 That's why I specified "car or bike" manufacturers - you're correct, more than one of them have flirted with with similar underhanded "pay twice for something" or recurring "subscription" type extortion for features that are already built in to the vehicles in question.
I've worked at a KTM dealer until recently. Demo Mode was definitely a bit of a challenge to explain to customers. We circumvented it by guiding most customers to just buy the tech-pack immediatly and get it financed as part of the bikes. On a monthly PCP the difference was fuck all. The people who were the most "articulate" about it were never goin to buy a bike anyway, but they probably managed to piss off a few potential customers in the process. A bit of an own-goal as said in the video, that just added unneeded "noise" about KTM in the public space.
KTM, mistakes: Telling Charlie and Ewan to get lost when they needed some bikes for The Long Way Round. Colossal mistake, BMW took a risk and it paid off. Weird styling, insectoid looks. Selling you a bike that you have to pay extra for things already on it? What were they smoking? Denying that there's a mechanical problem with some of their bikes and gaslighting customers, sorry that's BMW's forté . They're big enough to get away with that.
I was being ironic. BMW saw it as good cheap publicity. What was going through the KTM management brains is more the question. Either,We don't want the world to see how unreliable/fragile our bikes are, OR more likely, Vat! Give some bikes to a well connected world famous biker and his mate to travel around the world with a film crew for a series on prime television? Nein! Ve are not a charity. Same thinking as the record company that declined the Beatles......
I remember on Orange Crush how disappointed we were at that time. I had just bought the Paris Dakar winner MY04 and was really getting into enjoying it after 20 years of R80 g/s ownership. ...... At last a big trail bike for touring, something we dreamed about in the 70's riding our DT2's and RT3's
Whoever made the marketing decision to sell a motorcycle with Demo Mode on the features is an absolute buffoon. Is the same person now marketing Jaguar cars?
Utter rubbish, you’d have to pay for these things with any other manufacturer when you ordered the bike if you wanted the extras KTM were giving you it free for a 1000miles to get you hooked
No Ian, if the hardware is already on the bike then you've already paid for it. What they're effectively doing is making you pay for it twice. Things like quickshifters that they make you pay more for are included on most other similar bikes at the same price point
It's a shame for the folk that work for KTM but the writing has been on the wall for the last 2-3 years. The warranty issues and the way they treated their own loyal crowd was quite disgusting...once you loose a loyal customer they won't come back to the brand. KTM now distributing CF Moto was a big reason I couldn't endorse the CF brand knowing what trouble the main distributer (KTM) was in. Spot on video Sean.
Thanks ER for standing up for what you believe in,,even in this last month hardy any media has said anything (during reviews) of the possible demise of KTM ,,,Imagine if you,d just forked out for a new 1390...It just does not bear thinking about,,,But for the company themselves I have little sympathy.
Thanks for this video. You've presented the issue in a very rounded, well researched and articulate manner. Much of the online talk about KTM recently, quickly takes an obnoxious turn to "grab your torches an pitchforks!". I'm in two minds about this whole ordeal. I've worked at a KTM dealer and only just recently stopped (unrelated to KTM's woes). Here's my take: The bikes are awesome to ride and when they work, they are at the top of the game. The bikes are also completely uncompromising, they are very much about performance, agression and fun-factor. You get the impression that the bikes don't like to go slow. Therefore I think they work best for a decisive and experienced rider who knows what they are doing. Much inline with the slogan "Ready to Race". But undeniably you do get some of the most hardcore and best performing bikes available. For a long time KTM was a bit of a boutique thing. The owners riding them accepted (and frankly enjoyed) that the bikes were a bit finicky because of the performance on tap. Just look at the cult following the 950/990 Adventures still have to this day. To me problems arose when KTM started to go more mainstream about 10 years ago. It was my impression that when they won over customers from say BMW, Ducati or Honda - they expected an orange version of what they already had. And that was definitely not the case. Regarding reliabilty their reputation is sadly not completely unfounded. I cannot tell you the amount of wierd, funky and inconsistent problems I've seen on the bikes, mostly related to electronics and wiring. The most blatant issue I ever saw, was a brand new 1290 Adventure still in storage in the basement, that was leaking oil from the filter cap because of burrs from the machining... EVEN STILL customer satisfaction is honestly not so much about the issues themselves but how they are handled. I've worked with warranty work for over 10 different brands of car and bike manufacturers. KTM was by far the most inconsistent. Some customers had everything fixed no questions asked, some had their claims completely declined for various reasons. It did feel like a bit of a lottery at times. As the dealer it was incredibly frustrating, because you were at the receiving end of your customer's annoyance and anger, and we were completely powerless to do anything about it if Austria had already decided against honoring the warranty. In some cases they simply couldn't deliver parts for months. I love KTM. I also hate them. Hopefully this will be the wake-up-call to agressively streamline the business, re-focus on producing great products that presents good value to their core customers and making owning a KTM a positive experience.
Excellent comment, you come across very articulate. I probably couldn't have got it across better. Thank you 😊 and thank you for the kind words about the video. Cheers, Sean
always been 2nd rate product compared to market , no need to trick yourself thinking there like race ready to race type bike , rubbish ready to let you down is the experience for over 10 years
Agreed. i also worked in a bike shop selling only s/hand. We sold loads of 990s but would never buy in a RC8. The Dukes were fun for an afternoon, much like any supermoto, but got too big for the average Joe to handle. Also the road bikes have a dirt bike feel to the production engineering, not helped by the oceans of orange plastic. In my opinion they should have stuck to what they knew which was offroad.
But in Sweden, BMW is cheaper and has better service, goodwill and warranty’s. My old 1200 they replaced the cardan shaft without any cost. It wasn’t needed but they did it for safe matters. That’s why I bought a new BMW again. Try that with KTM or Ducati!
@@pauls8456 they are but barely have any margin. KTM was quite dependent on its higher end models and the drop in sales in the top end of the market combined with quickly rising interest rates killed them. They have massive inventory to finance and it doesn’t sell at the moment. Personally KTM is the only brand that does it for me in terms of styling and grunt. Yamaha gets close but they screw up their headlights and are just too small for me. I hope they can still course correct somehow and get the company back on track, because i’m in love with that 990 duke.
Hi from North Queensland Australia. I bought a new excf250 early 2020 ,it now has 92 thousand km on it and has been flawless. I have been buying and riding bikes 46 years and this one is way ahead of the rest. This bike is used in the harshest environment and serviced far less than recommended and it just keeps getting me home. I regularly go places that my life would be in danger if it failed, I have total faith in it. It is my first ktm.
I've got a 250excf 2004 , head never been off , just regular oil +filters , valve check and adjust , mainly consumables , I've fell off probs 50 times and not one plastic has ever broken , the kick-start broke , easy fix about 40 quid and that's it , maybe they should of stuck with dirtbikes and not selling their souls to Asian companies .
Its worth bearing in mind - 1/we are living in a worldwide economic crisis and the clowns in the EU want petrol motorcycles to stop production in 2035.The investment required to make a bike that no-one wants is ridiculous. 2/The enduro machines are about 14,000 euros .You still need to spend money on other stuff to get it right for the individual.Thats a big chunk of change for a specialist motorcycle.You will need another one for daily or ADV use. 3/rocker arms for 690,s are like 4x the price now. 4/Here in Greece the China bikes are selling well esp.CFmoto and Kove.They last well in warmer climates. 5/KTM offer husy,gas gas and KTM they dont ned 3 (of the same) bikes in 3 different colours,they need one bike with options
I’ve never been prouder of my cherry 2013 Suzuki DL650 Adventure I bought in 2019 for $2.8K with only 10K miles on the odometer. 5 years and 20K miles later it still fires right up and will take you to the end of the earth and back.
I would agree about the DL but do fit the starter relay kit otherwise it will leave you stranded at some point, aside from that simple fix they are a fantastic bike and stone reliable, the point that I'm trying to make is that all bikes have their achilles heal, even V stroms.
@@anonymousanonymous8306 I'm too old to care. Been there and done all the really fast stuff. I survived {with a slight limp and a few nasty scars mind you) and now in my twilight years just want great value and reliable, comfortable-enough machines that are easy to manage and toodle around on. That attitude suddenly hit me around my 50th year as an avid motorcyclist.
Sad news but not totally unexpected. At the beginning of this year my local KTM dealer closed down. The bikes have never really appealed to me as the styling and colour options are not to my taste. I would take an Africa Twin, GS or Tiger over a KTM. The demo mode would certainly stop me from buying one and now that my local dealer has gone I would need to travel for a 100 mile round trip for warranty and service work, so a big no from me. KTM haven't done themselves any favours with the way the camshaft issues have been handled.
My thoughts …. Please don't burn me … The thing people have forgotten, most young lads started their motoring journey on mopeds or a scooters, that's how we got to work. We learnt how to keep them on the road. Today that skill has gone just us old farts know. So what have we now ?.. Kids have electric pushbikes and some of these are thousands of pounds, and we've lost the moped and start to bikes, all we have now is disposable income bikers who want to be a biker in an instant, utter tosh in my eyes, No growth. it grieves me to pull up at one of my cafes on a Sunday and listen to them, they cannot ride they cannot fix a bike, all the gear and no idea. I quickly have my coffee and ride on. I see so many RUclips clips what's happening to biking, well here it is, there's not much money about and the world needs a massive shake up. I could follow this on and start naming names, being honest it all adds up doesn't it ? News Flash the next will be Harley watch this space.
People have really forgotten a lot of things in time. This must be one of them. Only proper people do it wisely. Like you stated I got my first motorized bike, a scooter. I find these very similar to regular bikes. Only motorized. Now as you stated perfectly, I am still trying to keep it on road. I ride it mostly with my wife and need for speed is real especially when you're on the highway. It felt like there is smt wrong, all the long, wide tunnel like road to go and not enough power. I was doing 112km/h hardly on my new Sym Jetx. I think my next bike will be Cbr500R when I collect enough money :DD ofc the backseat must be comfy too as I ride with my wife
An articulate presentation of the situation. I feel very sorry for the employees, but KTM is one brand that i would simply never buy. Totally out of the question. And who on earth sells a bike then disables features already installed!? That is treating their customers absolute contempt and reason enough to ensure that i would never spend even £1 with them. Treat your customers like that and you won't have any customers. Hey, why not remove the bikes wheels at the first service and tell the customers you want £1000, if they want their wheels back!😢
I agree, but I believe BMW cars have heated seats fitted already but you have to pay to 'unlock them'. Always fancied a KTM but the discounts they always offer made me wonder when to buy one, the demo mode, and of course the 'Keep Taking Money bit on maintenance. Add in the Chinese connection and I spent elswhere.
This is tragic. I had the 1190 Adventure R until a few years ago, and I loved that bike. It took me all over South Africa without a hitch, and was really reliable. I still regret selling it to this day. I have moved on to Honda recently, and I enjoy that bike as well, and I am currently looking at a T7. The demise of KTM to me is not a good thing. KTM drove innovation for a long time, and I loved the competition it brought to the market. It forced other manufacturers to also bring their A game
@@andersd8956 Most of those kilometers were packed for self contained camping including a round Australia trip with 50% rough outback roads. Packed sensibly with Zero frame issues
I've been a KTM fan since they were Pentons back in the 70's... I find this heartbreaking, they're not perfect, but in my world, enduro / ADV, they've always built exactly what I needed... Heartbreaking:( Less competition is never good for the consumer...
I don’t see a brand that failed, i see a brand that died. What exactly does the B in BSA stand for now,… Bangalore? This “revival” of brands is what Americans call stolen valour.
@ YES, I AGREE BUT WHERE DID YOU READ THAT I COMMENTED IT WAS? It may not be as bad, but is it not a very similar thing? I made an example of a similar style of stolen reputation. Stealing from the bank and stealing a wallet are also similar in certain aspects, and i think most would get that without trying to undermine and fling 💩virtue signalling. Sorry it did not suit you sir. Virtue signal all you like my point was understood by 5 ticks so far. The workers kept manufacturing going during the axis bombing. Virtue signalling to negate the point i was making that struck a chord with 5 of your readers so far. I dared to have the nerve make a point and state an example of a similarity. How very disrespectful of me apparently according to you. Well i’m not apologising I still think the comparison stands. Do our lives not matter to you ? I had to witness my father crying about the German boys he killed when he was on his death bed. He chucked his rosettes for killing people in the dustbin when internment without trial was introduced. Just how do you think the HD workforce in the USA would feel at all the work sold on their reputations going off to se Asia? I’m not virtuously seeking to get to the top of your pc pole, I just pointed put that they are similar things, virtue signal all you like. I did not imply disrespect to our allies with the comparison. But i guess you grasped at an easy opportunity to disregard my point and virtue signal at the same time by saying something obvious.
I don't think KTM will actually fail because they don't have direct competition in the dual sport and dirt bike market. Competitor's offerings don't even come close in terms of performance. However, they will have to restructure and sell off unprofitable operations and redundant brands. Also, the association with CF Moto did hurt them a lot. A premium brand with a premium price can't be made in China and retain the pricing power. What do you think would happen to Rolex if they started making the Submariner in China and it also had failing movements? People would call in Chinex and stop buying it.
@@DaveCarlson01 3B in debt, but a lot of the assets against that debt are unsold motorcycles. They’ll now have to sell them for a loss, but the final figure is likely in the 100s of millions.
The horrible front end of the bikes did it for me and their styling didnt evolve. Expecting dealers to stock multiple brand models with yearly new updates is crazy business practice.
Why would anyone buy a bike where features are disabled and you can only get them back by paying a four figure sum. That is just a con. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. They deserve to go but. Pity but they don't deserve to continue.
Let's be honest apart from their reputation for poor reliability, the bikes are quite decisive when it comes to how they look. I don't care for the headlight design and garish orange colour schemes
@@queenslander954 my 390 duke is on 40k km and I would say it’s quite decent. I had a leaking shock at 30k km (i’m a heavy fellow tbf), small coolant leak after 35k and a broken clutch cable, likely because of the previous owner damaging it. Only thing that i’ll have to get to is the valve clearance which i didn’t bother checking. Other than that it’s been bullet proof.
Hi from Portugal, Sean...KTM are popular out here because of their off-road ability as well as road prowess. It's a great combo for these conditions, as you saw. The camshaft issue hasn't been a big talking point, but the charging for the rider modes has, and it's a perfect example of a business working for its own interests rather than those of its customers. All the people I know out here riding KTMs are wealthy retirees or such like, they can afford the rider modes, yet they all turn them off out of principle. Let's hope KTM recover and see sense...
Lots of good points Sean. Carol & my oldest lad learned to ride on a KTM 125 back in 2012. Think that KTM was built in India. It wasn't that well put together. Loads of self-inflicted damage done by KTM. I've been interested in the Super Duke and Super Adventure but following other vloggers with these bikes, and many have suffered reliability issues. Complicated electronics that throw up engine management lights and restrictions on modes. Self administration is going to unsettle even the most devoted KTM fan considering buying a new KTM. Hope they don't turn out to be the first big casualty in the diminishing motorcycle industry
I reckon the only sensible way out of this is for CF Moto to wait for the collapse and then buy KTM for pennies on the pound just for the rights to the engines and suspension. I can't imagine there are too many others who would really be interested, I believe they were trying to work a deal with Bajaj but with this new move it looks like that didn't go anywhere. It's sad to see any brand go and the effect it will have on staff and the knock on effect of dealers, let's hope that someone like CF will see the value in taking over the dealer network and maybe some of the production.
@@markjacobs3956 1.5 Billion where has that figure come from? They need a loan of £200 million by the end of the year and a restructuring plan. The same happened in 1992 and they got through that period. I'm no saying they are going to make it but they are not gone yet.
No-one is going to buy a new KTM at the moment and used prices will drop like a stone, which means money will dry up even more and they're reputation is shot... they say it's a restructure to try and keep customers, but the only way I see KTM surviving is by someone else buying it and starting again...
Nobody here knows how this debt works. When you sell vehicles, you have to eat up the up-front cost. So you borrow a bunch of money un order to build thousands of bikes. Now lets say you build on duke 890. Maybe it costs like 7000 to produce, you can sell it later on for 10000 or whatever the prices are now. You need to finance that 7000, but you ALSO have 7000 worth in assets. That being the physical bike. Now you can’t pay interest with a motorcycle, but you can try to sell them at a loss to still cover the loan amount. So if KTM has a few billion in loans, that is likely also countered by a similar amount of assets. The question is if they can liquidate enough stock to service their debt to keep the company rolling. Not if they can literally pay off the entire debt in one go.
Poor quality and availability of parts and high prices - this is the problem. When it comes to Japanese motorcycles, even 20 years old can be easily repaired due to the availability of parts. When it comes to KTM, there is a problem with several year old motorcycles. I hope that KTM will think about it and will not make similar mistakes in the future because they can make great motorcycles.
KTM plans to apply for a period of self-administration on Friday. While the self-administration is in place, it will protect the company from creditors and enable KTM to remain independent and to manage its own assets during a period of restructuring. Stefan Pierer said that the goal is to agree on the restructuring plan with creditors within 90 days. So, while this may only be a temporary stay of execution, we shouldn't write off KTM just yet. Especially bearing in mind that KTM is Pierer's baby, and he is unlikely to let it fail without a fight. According to Forbes last year, he was worth 1.6B USD. Even if a proportion of this wealth is in the form of company shares, (the value of which has fallen alarmingly), he is still undoubtedly a very independently wealthy man and would probably be prepared to use his own money to rescue the company, if there was no other option.
Good point Luddite but like you I see it is a stay of execution as they need people to buy motorcycles whatever the plan to move cash around and reorganise.
To be frank, i am not optimistic because they have been unable to solve their inventory problems. With the receivership status, they will face a sharp decline in sales because people don't to purchase when company is at risk and the new bikes which are much more appealing are coming soon too. Then the actual will be sold at scrap value or close. If they are able to sort their debts, they will sell only the newer models which will leave them totally losing money. What they are really in need is a new owner which will take some actions to restore confidence in the brand. I doubt they can reach break even for the 2 or 3 next years given their stock. On the comforting side, this is an opportunity to purchase a brand for a cheap price, this is why i wouldn't exclude KTM continuing but with different owners with different approach to market.
Very good points Sean. I agree it’s a very dirty trick to charge for reinstalling the options software - BMW cars do the same - they obviously already include the cost of these extras in the purchase price. The activation of software costs nothing so why come after owners for these no costs. From my perspective the worst thing about KTM is the weird and ugly headlight units - I wouldn’t buy one for just that reason alone.
I'm sad about KTM, ive had a 1290 SA and enjoyed it but parted with it after it started to go wrong! My wife had a 390 Duke which was delivered new with an oil leak! it can't be blamed too much on the China link, BMW have had their F series engines made there for many years and had few issues. I hope they get through this!!
The 390 duke is made by Bajaj in India, not CF Moto on china. Also CF Moto only makes a very select few models and they have not really had any more problems than the Austrian models did.
I'm a truck driver and the "subscription features" issue reminds me of something I saw on MAN trucks: early Euro 6 MAN trucks had a stereo system which had Bluetooth audio, but subsequent versions of the same truck radio didn't have Bluetooth audio. You could put in an SD card with your audio tracks on it or (if the owner had specified it) plug in an AUX cable with your phone at the other end, but no Bluetooth audio. Clearly, MAN had decided to allow buyers to specify the feature or not, and of course, most buyers are corporate players buying whole fleets, not owner-drivers ordering for their own use, and a lot of them just chose the cheap option. It leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, that a company will build in features and then expect their customers to pay extra to use them, and allow bosses who buy them to cheap out and leave their staff, who have to sit in them for sometimes 12 hours a day or more, worse off.
Glad this popped up on my list. I have always thought KTMs were great, had no idea about poor customer support or reliability problems. Have ridden a couple KTMs in the past and loved them. The biggest hurdle I had with them was the cost, just expensive as hell so I always hesitated at buying one. Good info to know, thanks👍
How Ironic, 1 week ago I pulled over for a motorbike on the hard should of the M11 and spoke to the young man who stated his exhaust had fallen off after 1000 miles. It was a sports bike of some sort with 23 plate, I took a photo as I was amazed. Now this video makes sense
This may be naive, but I wonder why KTM or Husqvarna couldn't re-issue a bunch of their old '70s era motocross bikes, and sell them "as is" to Americans (who would use them as trail bikes and dirt-lot motocross bikes. And yes, I know that KTM and Husqvarna are now the same company. But they weren't back in the day). A '77 KTM or Husky 250 mx bike (with the old two shock tech) with 8 inches of suspension travel is still no joke as a fun bike. They'd sell tons of them, as they could sell them for around $3,000 each. Maybe the problem would be "environmental concerns" with the two stroke engines? The Russian Guennady Moiseev won 3 world championships on the KTM 250s, and they weren't even full factory bikes. Well, I'm done day dreaming. I'm old now.
Demo mode pushed me from an 890 to a DR650. I used the savings to upgrade the DR’s suspension, seat, bars, pegs, exhaust, carb…and now have a bomb proof bike that’ll go anywhere, anytime.
haha! oh my gosh, they had the balls to do that? give you something when you initially bought the bike, then take it away and then if you like it, make you pay for it? my gosh, they deserve what's coming for them.
#1 demo mode. You buy the bike but cant access everything thats included unless you pay more. Im already being charged for those parts you put on but i cant use them. #2. Reliability. Ktm knows there are problems yet doesnt really fix them or worse, keeps making them year after year. #3. Lack luster choices. I like sport bikes with full fairings. I have a $6000 390 choice which is too small for me and then the next choice is $20k and up. No middle ground. #3b. They all look basically the same. Just different degrees of ugliness.
Why buy a 790 duke when you can a CF moto version for 2k cheaper? Iv owned a 21 model duke 125, defined unreliability, cost the dealer over £3.5k in warranty repairs..the bike cost £4.6k massive loss, lesson is to make a reliable bike
my first bike was a ktm rc390, bought it brand new from dealers, 2 weeks in, bike kept overheating and shut down, then another 2 weeks later, it has false neutral between 3rd and 4th. Going back to dealer of course expecting warranty. They told me to learn to ride motorbike lol. Ok sold it and never looked back from there, never had any issues with all my Yamahas after, Even the 3 Aprilia V4 i owned had more reliability, I think KTM should just move on and build other things just leaves bikes alone.
I bought a 1290 SAR new last year (April 2023). It’s currently in the dealers under warranty having a wiring harness swapped out as it chafed somewhere. I’ve done 10000km on it and 3/4 that off road in the Pyrenees so perhaps it’s taken its toll From my experience, ktm themselves have been top notch, and the bike is a thing of wonder off road for its size and my lack of talent / the dealer here in Perpignan is KTM, Ducati, Suzuki and Honda and their customer service and comms are for s*** My concerns are about spares availability going forward as with the warranty almost up the main dealer won’t see me again hopefully, albeit the error code software probably isn’t that easy to access I imagine. If they want their brand to survive (and I hope it does) I’m assuming that all that spares network and resourcing will be business as usual no?
Why is only 10 thousand klms offroad a acceptable reason to have dodgy wiring looms , its not acceptable at all . Unreliable and dangerous is what they are , there wiring looms have been rubbish from day one . Parasitic battery drains come standard , just rubbish compared to quality manufacturing and the other components like the wiring looms
@ well it’s happened and I’ve got 21k euros invested that I’m not getting back and they’re fixing it for free under guarantee I’d prefer it not to have happened but it did I don’t think Ktm are unique in having faults from new - friends with new range rovers have wished they’d never seen the damn things for example and written off thousands to get out of the awful mess
@@philmatthews9697 Not good at all some of these Automotive problems i see it . Modern marketing appears to be able to buy reputation or perception through the media . Expensive blanket marketing with gag orders contracted , i would have bought a ktm in 2008 and lucky i didnt with the crank case seal failures among other issues. Daul sport or enduro bikes only had a 3 month warranty and there parasitic drains in the looms flattening batteries without a tender connected ongoing . Is it weight saving wiring looms or just poor manufacturering of them along with the system isolation of draining power slowly. I have followed since 2008 and nothing has improved except the marketing. In AU we have a saftey recall website for cars etc is how i came to be on the list of emails so i chose Motorcycles as well for recall. Not a year has passed without a ktmhuska saftey recall on products . Fire , brakes may fail you name it . I give up and cant except they are innovators when the base bike dose not have the already proven on other brands Reliability base , Japanese looms have all the rub points sorted , no corrosion issues and no parasitic drain. ECU s 20 plus years old and still working i find amazing but true.
From where do you get the info that they will be liquidated ? They are now in a restructuring process and liquidation is only one of the possible outcomes.
I have other bikes but thought I'd try a 390 Adventure for a bit of green lane fun. So many problems and warranty claims with it. Also would be nice to have another colour choice other than Easy Jet Orange.
I may be living in an alternate reality but in the Midwest USA KTM / Husky is a strong majority of what you see guys running at the weekend warrior woods races. It’s not even close. The 300 is a staple. Myself and five of my buddies all have 300s and they have been great. I hope they come back stronger and wiser.
I am having a Duke, even now, but the KTM dealers scammed me multiple times. When I complained to KTM headquarter, I was ignored. I have to spend money to sue them. Even though they settled this out of court, with me getting compensation, the way KTM doing business and treating their customers like golden goose will eventually catch up with them, like the sh*t they're having now.
As a Yamaha and Honda rider I only had one KTM the 300 2stroke .. and it was ok , but what is killing the market is the new generation riding surrons ..
Absolutely well said !. If I had to choose between a new CF Moto or KTM, it would be the former without a doubt. They deserve to do well. With winter coming, the industry will suffer generally even more too. I already own a KTM GT, 2016 , and brilliant it has been too ( touching wood ).
Even if by some miracle chance that KTM got back on its feet again, no motorcycle dealer would be willing to take on the brand, either as a first time opportunity or a carry-on arrangement.
I've never liked KTM. I know a lot of people think they are fantastic, but I really can't stand them. As far as I'm concerned their entire range is the ugliest bunch of bikes money can buy. They represent everything I don't like in a bike. I think you've got it bang on with your analysis of the problems. "Ready to race?"..... No, I'm not; and never have been. At the bike dealers I used to work in, they used to scoff at me because when a KTM pulled into the car park I used to say, "there's another unexploded bomb outside". Maybe it's just me.😂
Another consequence of the KTM disaster is MV Agusta, they bought it, or a major shareholding in 2022, so if KTM does die, it will probably take MV with it. This is a bugger because I really want a Brutale 1000RR, but if there is any doubt about the brands future continuity I just can't take the risk with 30K. And it's not like a big car brand will step in and buy MV, as did Audi with Ducati, because these giant car brands are under threat themselves with the stupid green agenda. Most people don't want EVs, but car manufacturers can't just keep making ICE powered vehicles because they are penalised at an unsustainable level if they don't sell enough EVs, which people don't buy, a vicious circle. Governments are just destroying huge industries for the sake of an imaginary climate issue, they cannot have done any impact analysis of such an extreme policy. Not only will millions of jobs in the manufacturers themselves be lost, but even more in the support industries, it's commercial Armageddon. As for electric bikes, the situation speaks for itself, almost all of the higher performance EB manufacturers have gone under, because no one wants them!! The EM, ES market is different, the customer demographic is not bikers, they are just commuters and utility users, so electric is good for that. Personally I will never buy or own an EV of any type, hopefully my existing bikes and cars will remain useable and see me out.
It’s worth remembering KTM started making off road bikes so no they don’t have a retro. The KTM 790 is very different bike to the CfMoto 800MT. It’s nearly 40kg lighter to start off with and a completely different ride. And they do have entry level bikes like the best in class 390 adventure. They haven’t gone yet despite what seems like half of you tube betting on their demise. There rant over. Ride safe 🙂
Fair comments Pete. Perhaps it's the optics that they needed to improve. The problem i have with the 390 adv and believe me I hankered over one of these myself was that it wasn't competitive in its class on price. In my view of course...
Sad news they build stonking bikes loved my 690 duke, and when I was 16 they made a sport moped which was proper bike size so fitted me great being a tall bugger, great ped the KTM comet cross, but all the prices were premium even their 390 range, 😢 another on bites the dust. Destined to be a future Chinese owned manufacturer, cheers Sean,…. Pete🇫🇷
I was about to pull the trigger on a brand new KTM 890 because they were giving a great deal on them at my local dealer. Then a friend of mine told me about their camshafts issues, and then I looked at their financial problems and I said nope! Think I'm going to look for a slightly used Triumph Tiger 900 now.
I have a 2014 1190 Adventure. Had it from new. The dealer wants £200 to update the firmware from v2.3 to v3 and told me that I need to sign a form so that in the case they brick the ECU they take no liability.
The upgrade effectively removes the bugs that have been in there since day 1 and makes the instrument panel work as it should have from the factory. It's not a repair, it's putting it right as it should have been from day 1.
Shocking support.
I have a 2014 1190 also. What is different about the firmware update? What new features does it give?
I have a 2015 and id like to know too as my dash seems fine@jonasbaine3538
Small Claims Court is your friend.
@@seannicholas363 that's crap isn't it? Ridiculous situation.
ktm use their customers as testing grounds
If KTM have been that arrogant towards it's customers particularly with the Camshaft issue and the additional charge for reactivating software then I have no sympathy with the company and they deserve all they get. Seems to me that customers have stopped voting with their wallets and it's come back to bite them on the bum.
I hope for the sake of dealers and customers that the business is sold on to people who are more customer focused and take a more proactive role in both keeping those customers who have been loyal to the brand and produce a quality product that attracts new buyers.
It’s more than just those two issues. It’s a rot that’s an accumulation of many fuck ups.
Royal Enfield sold 100k bikes last month. On pace to sell well over a million in 2024. Why? Affordable, reliable bikes the market wants. RIP KTM and HD.
I wanted to buy a KTM 790 Adventure Rally in 2020. The dealer didn’t offer a test ride opportunity, so I ended up with a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE. No regrets ever since!
My next bike will likely be a Honda or a RE.
Nothing wrong with HD. 60k on my 05 FLHRSI and had 1 non service repair at a cost of €40 in 18 years.....
Royal Enfields are Indian made and as such have a huge domestic market. KTMs cost a mint and are not everyones cup of tea. I wouldnt buy one, i think there ugly and even their road bikes look like dirt bikes.
@@johnmoylan7202 Could it be that your HD is almost a 20-year old model? They were not "state of the art" or of any advanced technology back then, but they were reliable and long lasting.
To be honest... if you have a 1400 c.c. putting out just 70-80 hp, there is no real stress on the engine. You just need to have quality metal parts. And when charging i.e. 20-30.000 for a (non-performance) bike, you should have!
@@The1KovacsAttila1 Dont buy the Enfield new. They lose money like a 7/series.
This is what happens with corporate CEO and CFO. They only care about the quarter. Not the customer.
Absolutely spot on… I’m not into biking these days but done my fair share of youthful adventures. It’s always the same in whichever sector you look at corporate greed takes hold at some point😢. As a few others have commented we should stand up to this crazy capitalist carry on and vote with our wallets much earlier.
Being a former CFO myself, i am obliged to disagree. The fall of KTM financially comes basically from inventory build up and i would have requested to adjust production quickly to reduce stock. The problem with KTM is they didn't have a CFO but a chief accountant saying yes sir to the CEO. This kind of company is not financially oriented, they are sacrificing everything to performance and this is what makes them less reliable than others, The CEO and the Sales Manager are interested by specs. not by financial results or good service.
@@edouardl2 gibberish
@@tenbear5 Very eloquent indeed, you are a master debater. Maybe you can enlighten us with some more explanations ?
@edouardl2 wasn't it the Indian mentality which sank their ship?
Sounds like it was largely destroyed by utterly crap management.
How much did motogp cost them?
@@StoatLoxley not much, as RedBull foot most of the bill being the primary sponsor
@@raymondavalon Be interesting to know, because their engine has no road application.
@@StoatLoxley
Of course technology from the Motogp bikes makes it onto their road bikes
@@ianjohnson1207 thats not what i said
I dipped my toe into the KTM world .. bought a brand new 790 Duke in 2019 ... got shot of it earlier this year after numerous oil leaks, 12 warranty claims made, several batteries bought and worsening top end rattles, the cam issue being the nail in the coffin for my time with KTM. It was a great fun bike to ride .. when it worked properly ..... unfortunately I never knew if it was going to work properly or not each time I fired it up. Now back on a Honda and enjoying a bike that just works how it's supposed to every time the starter button is pressed, sure it's not as exciting to ride as the 790 but also doesn't bring a whole load of the "is it broken AGAIN??" anxiety that came with the KTM .....
Oh dear that sounds like the loyal customer buggered off..
In ktm, when you buy a motorcycle from them you have to remove the engine to reseal the camshaft properly by yourself after you purchased it
KTM died because
1) stupid design, insect bikes are a niche.
2) greed, overpriced MSRP and than daring to charge for features already on the bike.
3) trust, outsourcing to china, lying about the cam shaft issues, the false neutral and heads on the 690s, the am chain tension on the 1290 etc.
And terrible WP suspension
Clown level post
Would sponsoring way too many riders in Europe be a reason
I am a former KTM owner. It was great to ride, but hideous to own. It was the most expensively unreliable bike I have ever owned. I would never buy another KTM.
I've had several used Ktm's over the years and have just bought a very nice Husqvarna Svartpilen 701 which has the fantastic Ktm 690 single in it. I've found them to be very reliable and massively fun motorcycles and would definitely buy another one at the drop of a hat!
@ It’s good you have had a positive experience. Mine, however, was anything but. As I said my 950 Adventure was great to ride, but crap to own.
Same.
My experience exactly. I finally gave up and traded my 1290 SDR for a Harley, and it was extremely reliable.
Try an Aprilia rsv4!
I bought a Vitpilen 3 years ago. The horn was not working, I found it’s connector was not inserted all the way in, I fixed that. The dash was crooked, I found that one of its mounting screws was not all the way in because it was screwed in crooked and it’s threads were partly stripped and jammed tight. I had to back that screw out, cleaned all the metal shavings out, reinstalled it straight on before it was able to fully thread all the way in. The bike definitely did not go through any quality control. This is my first and last Husqvarna/KTM.
That’s a dealer shortfall more than manufacturing. Some bikes come mostly ready others are assembled by dealer. Your bike was more than likely assembled incorrectly by dealer. Either way poor quality control.
My mate loved his 390 duke. But three screen replacement. And a couple of other faults put him off, and sold it.
Lost loads too as at the time KTM knocked £1500 off the list price. Devaluing the used bikes.
Don't position yourself as niche, upmarket, different, to justify the cost, then collaborate in China.
Yes, when only 10% of the bikes were made in China, people thought the whole range was...
@MindfulMotorcyclist Exactly!
Agree 100%
@@MindfulMotorcyclist The challenges of making business work in idiocracy 😂 . The faulty cam engines were made in west and at the same time people shunned the firm for collaborating with the chinese that didn't had that problem on the CFM 's
@@ketelin4285 So very true - pity that KTM didn't actually read the email from CFMoto that said "Do you mind if we redesign the inlet cam lubrication?" lol
One of the things you forgot to mention Sean is that their head designer was a 10 year old with a transformer fixation.
He's trans......former.
😅
Ian 😂
Horrible angry robotic wasp design. But that is not only KTM, most companies opt for that "aesthetic". Tbh i think Kawasaki started this bshit, ages ago.
@@constantinosschinas4503 Desperately trying to appeal to the younger digital generation, they don't realise that sex sells, it must have curves, it's subliminal and inside everyone, males and females.
One wonders how expensive the KTM decision not to give bikes to Ewan McGregor and Charlie Boorman actually was to them. KTM was the first choice, mainly at Charlie’s insistence for ‘Long Way Round’ but KTM didn’t want to be a part of it as they didn’t think the bikes would make it and it would create adverse publicity.
So, Ewan and Charlie reluctantly went with BMW GS’s and the rest is history.
The exponential growth of GS sales was directly attributable to that first series of programmes and worth hundreds of millions to BMW.
In all fairness KTBoom💥 were not wrong in doubting the ability of their bikes to survive a world marathon. I remember KTM's dominance in Motocross & enduro. But their competition bikes always sacrificed longevity for performance. So I was very skeptical about that market model working on day to day road bikes & obviously it didn't.
The whole "demo mode" idea is an absolutely disgusting practice and anyone who thinks otherwise has to be monumentally stupid. That kind of greed never deserves to go unpunished. and any car or bike manufacturer who adopts such disgraceful shite would never get my custom/money.
Disclaimer: KTM never appealed to me, I don't even like them in video games 🤣 I just never saw what the "attraction" was. Aesthetically they are the epitome of vulgar and crass to my eyes.
Compleatly agree,, When the demo mode thing came in I let rip saying what a load of rubbish it was,,but the KTM fanboys piled in saying how wrong I was and it was the best thing since sliced bread,,,, As for owning one ,,, no, never ever appealled,,even the 390 which is in my smallish bike bracket just never looked right.... I expect now the prices are going to plumbmet,, fancy if you just bought one of those big 1390s,,, I bet you,v lost half your value.
A lot of car makers (BMW for example) have features connected through a SIM card that only function for 12 months or the warranty period. Granted they’re not as fundamental as the KTM tech but it may well be where the idea came from.
Wow. Angertown!
@@michaelnorris45 That's why I specified "car or bike" manufacturers - you're correct, more than one of them have flirted with with similar underhanded "pay twice for something" or recurring "subscription" type extortion for features that are already built in to the vehicles in question.
I've worked at a KTM dealer until recently. Demo Mode was definitely a bit of a challenge to explain to customers. We circumvented it by guiding most customers to just buy the tech-pack immediatly and get it financed as part of the bikes. On a monthly PCP the difference was fuck all. The people who were the most "articulate" about it were never goin to buy a bike anyway, but they probably managed to piss off a few potential customers in the process. A bit of an own-goal as said in the video, that just added unneeded "noise" about KTM in the public space.
It's not only the association with C F MOTO, it's the fact CF have basically released the same bikes at a hefty discount
People are sceptical about the reliability of Chinese bikes but they can't be any worse than KTMs
@@johncummins3860i think they are better, no camshaft failures on 800 mt worldwide, with far more km on them. I like the cf moto and yes i own one
@@johncummins3860Plus KTM was already 50% owned by Bajaj.
@@johncummins3860 actually the CFM didn't have the cam problem . The advantage of not being the "leading" brand
Not the same, better. Look at the 450MT
I never took to KTM for the reasons you state. I like motorcycles to look like bikes not insects.
Same Mark, I think they were good bikes though...
They could've learned something from RE and the success of the Himalayan over the past few years.
i own a ktm ,so do some of my mates .None look like insects.I dont like the tiny ones either.They dont look like a real KTM more like a toy
That´s why KTM introduced the Husqvarna brand with same technology: for those like you who do not like the looks
@@franckbrunie4759 The Huskies are an acquired taste looks wise. Not one I acquired.
KTM, mistakes:
Telling Charlie and Ewan to get lost when they needed some bikes for The Long Way Round. Colossal mistake, BMW took a risk and it paid off.
Weird styling, insectoid looks.
Selling you a bike that you have to pay extra for things already on it? What were they smoking?
Denying that there's a mechanical problem with some of their bikes and gaslighting customers, sorry that's BMW's forté .
They're big enough to get away with that.
What risk? Giving two bikes to two actors to film themselves riding around the world? At most it costs them a couple thousand dollars.
I was being ironic.
BMW saw it as good cheap publicity.
What was going through the KTM management brains is more the question.
Either,We don't want the world to see how unreliable/fragile our bikes are, OR more likely, Vat! Give some bikes to a well connected world famous biker and his mate to travel around the world with a film crew for a series on prime television? Nein! Ve are not a charity. Same thinking as the record company that declined the Beatles......
@@pw601guitar bands were going out of fashion!
I remember on Orange Crush how disappointed we were at that time. I had just bought the Paris Dakar winner MY04 and was really getting into enjoying it after 20 years of R80 g/s ownership. ...... At last a big trail bike for touring, something we dreamed about in the 70's riding our DT2's and RT3's
KTM knew their bikes wouldn't be able to do it and that they would be exposed !!
Whoever made the marketing decision to sell a motorcycle with Demo Mode on the features is an absolute buffoon. Is the same person now marketing Jaguar cars?
Utter rubbish, you’d have to pay for these things with any other manufacturer when you ordered the bike if you wanted the extras
KTM were giving you it free for a 1000miles to get you hooked
Probably and look at Jaguar now.....crap.
No Ian, if the hardware is already on the bike then you've already paid for it. What they're effectively doing is making you pay for it twice. Things like quickshifters that they make you pay more for are included on most other similar bikes at the same price point
@@leebrogdon1656 I agree. They have zero excuse asking people that is already installed and paid for by the customer just to "unlock it" That's theft.
It's a shame for the folk that work for KTM but the writing has been on the wall for the last 2-3 years.
The warranty issues and the way they treated their own loyal crowd was quite disgusting...once you loose a loyal customer they won't come back to the brand.
KTM now distributing CF Moto was a big reason I couldn't endorse the CF brand knowing what trouble the main distributer (KTM) was in.
Spot on video Sean.
Thanks ER and thanks for the message about this topic in the first place 👍
Thanks ER for standing up for what you believe in,,even in this last month hardy any media has said anything (during reviews) of the possible demise of KTM ,,,Imagine if you,d just forked out for a new 1390...It just does not bear thinking about,,,But for the company themselves I have little sympathy.
@@lipsee100 Thanks, yes I'm glad I said what I did now. If it's saved even 1 persons cash then all the better. 👍🙏
portraying itself as "premium" definitely does NOT go along with "China made"
Like your iPhone. Low IQ commenter
Poor quality, unreliable reputation, overly priced & damn ugly. I wonder what happened?
Except that they've been around and successful for a long time. What's happening now is the result of recent mismanagement.
They forgot to do regular S.W.O.T. analysis over the years.
I'm not surprised they have probably never heard of S.W.O.T. like myself and a million others reading this. Care to explain?.
@@Jonathan-L And S.W.O.T. is?....
@@glenndubicki4099 Strengths, weaknesses, opportunities & threats.
Thanks for this video. You've presented the issue in a very rounded, well researched and articulate manner. Much of the online talk about KTM recently, quickly takes an obnoxious turn to "grab your torches an pitchforks!". I'm in two minds about this whole ordeal. I've worked at a KTM dealer and only just recently stopped (unrelated to KTM's woes). Here's my take:
The bikes are awesome to ride and when they work, they are at the top of the game. The bikes are also completely uncompromising, they are very much about performance, agression and fun-factor. You get the impression that the bikes don't like to go slow. Therefore I think they work best for a decisive and experienced rider who knows what they are doing. Much inline with the slogan "Ready to Race". But undeniably you do get some of the most hardcore and best performing bikes available.
For a long time KTM was a bit of a boutique thing. The owners riding them accepted (and frankly enjoyed) that the bikes were a bit finicky because of the performance on tap. Just look at the cult following the 950/990 Adventures still have to this day. To me problems arose when KTM started to go more mainstream about 10 years ago. It was my impression that when they won over customers from say BMW, Ducati or Honda - they expected an orange version of what they already had. And that was definitely not the case.
Regarding reliabilty their reputation is sadly not completely unfounded. I cannot tell you the amount of wierd, funky and inconsistent problems I've seen on the bikes, mostly related to electronics and wiring. The most blatant issue I ever saw, was a brand new 1290 Adventure still in storage in the basement, that was leaking oil from the filter cap because of burrs from the machining...
EVEN STILL customer satisfaction is honestly not so much about the issues themselves but how they are handled. I've worked with warranty work for over 10 different brands of car and bike manufacturers. KTM was by far the most inconsistent. Some customers had everything fixed no questions asked, some had their claims completely declined for various reasons. It did feel like a bit of a lottery at times. As the dealer it was incredibly frustrating, because you were at the receiving end of your customer's annoyance and anger, and we were completely powerless to do anything about it if Austria had already decided against honoring the warranty. In some cases they simply couldn't deliver parts for months.
I love KTM. I also hate them. Hopefully this will be the wake-up-call to agressively streamline the business, re-focus on producing great products that presents good value to their core customers and making owning a KTM a positive experience.
Excellent comment, you come across very articulate. I probably couldn't have got it across better. Thank you 😊 and thank you for the kind words about the video. Cheers, Sean
always been 2nd rate product compared to market , no need to trick yourself thinking there like race ready to race type bike , rubbish ready to let you down is the experience for over 10 years
Agreed. i also worked in a bike shop selling only s/hand. We sold loads of 990s but would never buy in a RC8. The Dukes were fun for an afternoon, much like any supermoto, but got too big for the average Joe to handle. Also the road bikes have a dirt bike feel to the production engineering, not helped by the oceans of orange plastic. In my opinion they should have stuck to what they knew which was offroad.
The demo mode stopped me buying an 890. The poor reliability of the 790 didn't help either.
Priced themselves out of the market simple as that. BMW motorbikes will follow if they don't adjust to the new world.
Really? The smaller KTM road bikes are some of the cheapest around…
@@pauls8456Recently tried a Duke 390. Worst bike I have ever driven.
But in Sweden, BMW is cheaper and has better service, goodwill and warranty’s. My old 1200 they replaced the cardan shaft without any cost. It wasn’t needed but they did it for safe matters. That’s why I bought a new BMW again. Try that with KTM or Ducati!
@@pauls8456 they are but barely have any margin. KTM was quite dependent on its higher end models and the drop in sales in the top end of the market combined with quickly rising interest rates killed them. They have massive inventory to finance and it doesn’t sell at the moment. Personally KTM is the only brand that does it for me in terms of styling and grunt. Yamaha gets close but they screw up their headlights and are just too small for me. I hope they can still course correct somehow and get the company back on track, because i’m in love with that 990 duke.
Serves them right, treating customers like they did....
Hi from North Queensland Australia. I bought a new excf250 early 2020 ,it now has 92 thousand km on it and has been flawless. I have been buying and riding bikes 46 years and this one is way ahead of the rest. This bike is used in the harshest environment and serviced far less than recommended and it just keeps getting me home. I regularly go places that my life would be in danger if it failed, I have total faith in it. It is my first ktm.
I've got a 250excf 2004 , head never been off , just regular oil +filters , valve check and adjust , mainly consumables , I've fell off probs 50 times and not one plastic has ever broken , the kick-start broke , easy fix about 40 quid and that's it , maybe they should of stuck with dirtbikes and not selling their souls to Asian companies .
It regularly goes places where my life would be in danger if it failed - Really?
My 2014 1190 Adventure has never missed a beat, never felt the need to replace it, makes me grin ear to ear every time I ride it.
On a personal level I’ve never liked the styling of KTM bikes tbh.
The demo mode you mentioned always put me off.
I think that was really poor given the economic climate....
For the demo mode alone Id never buy a KTM. Shitty thing to do. Anyone I know who owned one had a lot of trouble with them.
Its worth bearing in mind -
1/we are living in a worldwide economic crisis and the clowns in the EU want petrol motorcycles to stop production in 2035.The investment required to make a bike that no-one wants is ridiculous.
2/The enduro machines are about 14,000 euros .You still need to spend money on other stuff to get it right for the individual.Thats a big chunk of change for a specialist motorcycle.You will need another one for daily or ADV use.
3/rocker arms for 690,s are like 4x the price now.
4/Here in Greece the China bikes are selling well esp.CFmoto and Kove.They last well in warmer climates.
5/KTM offer husy,gas gas and KTM they dont ned 3 (of the same) bikes in 3 different colours,they need one bike with options
I’ve never been prouder of my cherry 2013 Suzuki DL650 Adventure I bought in 2019 for $2.8K with only 10K miles on the odometer. 5 years and 20K miles later it still fires right up and will take you to the end of the earth and back.
I would agree about the DL but do fit the starter relay kit otherwise it will leave you stranded at some point, aside from that simple fix they are a fantastic bike and stone reliable, the point that I'm trying to make is that all bikes have their achilles heal, even V stroms.
@@barryfrancis7421 👍 I bought a kit from Eastern Beaver and did it the first few months I owned it.
@@ralphcantrell3214 Good move Ralph, I learned my lesson the hard way !
They're so not fun to ride though. I had one, even with the Zlock big bore it was uninspiring, though the 100hp at least made it bearable.
@@anonymousanonymous8306 I'm too old to care. Been there and done all the really fast stuff. I survived {with a slight limp and a few nasty scars mind you) and now in my twilight years just want great value and reliable, comfortable-enough machines that are easy to manage and toodle around on. That attitude suddenly hit me around my 50th year as an avid motorcyclist.
My brother had a 2017 Super Duke Gt. I've never seen a bike with so many issues.
I have a 2017 and it's been an amazing bike. That said, I do feel like KTM lost their way after 2018 or so 😞
Sad news but not totally unexpected. At the beginning of this year my local KTM dealer closed down. The bikes have never really appealed to me as the styling and colour options are not to my taste. I would take an Africa Twin, GS or Tiger over a KTM. The demo mode would certainly stop me from buying one and now that my local dealer has gone I would need to travel for a 100 mile round trip for warranty and service work, so a big no from me. KTM haven't done themselves any favours with the way the camshaft issues have been handled.
Have never bought a KTM simply because of the price gouging demo mode.
Absolutely hate subscription model anything.
We all hate it. But it's slowly becoming the norm... Amazon prime anyone?
Some colours other than orange would have been helpful for sales too.
I would never buy an orange bike. Would rather have a green Kawasaki, and I don't even want one of those either.
Agreed. Orange is not the new black 😊😀
On the other hand, most Hondas are only available in black in Canada. So I bought a KTM. The entry-level one that’s been a huge seller, the 390.
Were available in grey too..
They do, are you blind, black, grey, white.
My thoughts …. Please don't burn me … The thing people have forgotten, most young lads started their motoring journey on mopeds or a scooters, that's how we got to work. We learnt how to keep them on the road. Today that skill has gone just us old farts know. So what have we now ?.. Kids have electric pushbikes and some of these are thousands of pounds, and we've lost the moped and start to bikes, all we have now is disposable income bikers who want to be a biker in an instant, utter tosh in my eyes, No growth. it grieves me to pull up at one of my cafes on a Sunday and listen to them, they cannot ride they cannot fix a bike, all the gear and no idea. I quickly have my coffee and ride on. I see so many RUclips clips what's happening to biking, well here it is, there's not much money about and the world needs a massive shake up. I could follow this on and start naming names, being honest it all adds up doesn't it ? News Flash the next will be Harley watch this space.
Spot on
I think you will see Harley being taken over by China or the East Indians .
People have really forgotten a lot of things in time. This must be one of them. Only proper people do it wisely. Like you stated I got my first motorized bike, a scooter. I find these very similar to regular bikes. Only motorized. Now as you stated perfectly, I am still trying to keep it on road. I ride it mostly with my wife and need for speed is real especially when you're on the highway. It felt like there is smt wrong, all the long, wide tunnel like road to go and not enough power. I was doing 112km/h hardly on my new Sym Jetx. I think my next bike will be Cbr500R when I collect enough money :DD ofc the backseat must be comfy too as I ride with my wife
An articulate presentation of the situation. I feel very sorry for the employees, but KTM is one brand that i would simply never buy. Totally out of the question. And who on earth sells a bike then disables features already installed!? That is treating their customers absolute contempt and reason enough to ensure that i would never spend even £1 with them. Treat your customers like that and you won't have any customers. Hey, why not remove the bikes wheels at the first service and tell the customers you want £1000, if they want their wheels back!😢
I agree, but I believe BMW cars have heated seats fitted already but you have to pay to 'unlock them'. Always fancied a KTM but the discounts they always offer made me wonder when to buy one, the demo mode, and of course the 'Keep Taking Money bit on maintenance. Add in the Chinese connection and I spent elswhere.
This is tragic. I had the 1190 Adventure R until a few years ago, and I loved that bike. It took me all over South Africa without a hitch, and was really reliable. I still regret selling it to this day.
I have moved on to Honda recently, and I enjoy that bike as well, and I am currently looking at a T7.
The demise of KTM to me is not a good thing. KTM drove innovation for a long time, and I loved the competition it brought to the market. It forced other manufacturers to also bring their A game
Same as you. Had 60,000klm of fantastic reliable motoring on my 1190r.
Probably the most competent fun Moto I will ever own.
@@andersd8956 Most of those kilometers were packed for self contained camping including a round Australia trip with 50% rough outback roads.
Packed sensibly with Zero frame issues
@@andersd8956 Yes. It sounds like my experience was not the norm.
I've been a KTM fan since they were Pentons back in the 70's... I find this heartbreaking, they're not perfect, but in my world, enduro / ADV, they've always built exactly what I needed... Heartbreaking:(
Less competition is never good for the consumer...
I don’t see a brand that failed, i see a brand that died. What exactly does the B in BSA stand for now,… Bangalore?
This “revival” of brands is what Americans call stolen valour.
It's certainly no where near as bad as stolen valour that's disrespectful to soldiers and their brothers who died...
@ YES, I AGREE BUT WHERE DID YOU READ THAT I COMMENTED IT WAS? It may not be as bad, but is it not a very similar thing?
I made an example of a similar style of stolen reputation. Stealing from the bank and stealing a wallet are also similar in certain aspects, and i think most would get that without trying to undermine and fling 💩virtue signalling. Sorry it did not suit you sir. Virtue signal all you like my point was understood by 5 ticks so far. The workers kept manufacturing going during the axis bombing.
Virtue signalling to negate the point i was making that struck a chord with 5 of your readers so far.
I dared to have the nerve make a point and state an example of a similarity. How very disrespectful of me apparently according to you. Well i’m not apologising I still think the comparison stands. Do our lives not matter to you ? I had to witness my father crying about the German boys he killed when he was on his death bed. He chucked his rosettes for killing people in the dustbin when internment without trial was introduced.
Just how do you think the HD workforce in the USA would feel at all the work sold on their reputations going off to se Asia? I’m not virtuously seeking to get to the top of your pc pole, I just pointed put that they are similar things, virtue signal all you like. I did not imply disrespect to our allies with the comparison. But i guess you grasped at an easy opportunity to disregard my point and virtue signal at the same time by saying something obvious.
If you purchase it, it's not stolen.
@@troykelso I’d sooner rebrand it and paint my own name on it and pretend it’s all my own work.
Never heard that one before but you are right 😆
I don't think KTM will actually fail because they don't have direct competition in the dual sport and dirt bike market. Competitor's offerings don't even come close in terms of performance. However, they will have to restructure and sell off unprofitable operations and redundant brands. Also, the association with CF Moto did hurt them a lot. A premium brand with a premium price can't be made in China and retain the pricing power. What do you think would happen to Rolex if they started making the Submariner in China and it also had failing movements? People would call in Chinex and stop buying it.
Direct competition in the dirt bike market? Newb
Beta,Sherco are good bikes
😅
they will fail because they are $3B in debt!
@@DaveCarlson01 3B in debt, but a lot of the assets against that debt are unsold motorcycles. They’ll now have to sell them for a loss, but the final figure is likely in the 100s of millions.
The horrible front end of the bikes did it for me and their styling didnt evolve. Expecting dealers to stock multiple brand models with yearly new updates is crazy business practice.
When they made camshaft operation a subscription only model. That’s when I lost faith……..
Why would anyone buy a bike where features are disabled and you can only get them back by paying a four figure sum. That is just a con. I have never heard of anything so ridiculous. They deserve to go but. Pity but they don't deserve to continue.
Let's be honest apart from their reputation for poor reliability, the bikes are quite decisive when it comes to how they look. I don't care for the headlight design and garish orange colour schemes
The two KTMs I have owned have both been really reliable: 950 Adventure, 390 Duke, the latter I still have. Nick
So you’re the one 😂
@@queenslander954 my 390 duke is on 40k km and I would say it’s quite decent. I had a leaking shock at 30k km (i’m a heavy fellow tbf), small coolant leak after 35k and a broken clutch cable, likely because of the previous owner damaging it. Only thing that i’ll have to get to is the valve clearance which i didn’t bother checking. Other than that it’s been bullet proof.
Hi from Portugal, Sean...KTM are popular out here because of their off-road ability as well as road prowess. It's a great combo for these conditions, as you saw. The camshaft issue hasn't been a big talking point, but the charging for the rider modes has, and it's a perfect example of a business working for its own interests rather than those of its customers. All the people I know out here riding KTMs are wealthy retirees or such like, they can afford the rider modes, yet they all turn them off out of principle. Let's hope KTM recover and see sense...
Lots of good points Sean. Carol & my oldest lad learned to ride on a KTM 125 back in 2012. Think that KTM was built in India. It wasn't that well put together.
Loads of self-inflicted damage done by KTM. I've been interested in the Super Duke and Super Adventure but following other vloggers with these bikes, and many have suffered reliability issues. Complicated electronics that throw up engine management lights and restrictions on modes.
Self administration is going to unsettle even the most devoted KTM fan considering buying a new KTM. Hope they don't turn out to be the first big casualty in the diminishing motorcycle industry
Demo mode is just a total scam. Sorry to say. The hardware is THERE, but they disable it!! WTF
I reckon the only sensible way out of this is for CF Moto to wait for the collapse and then buy KTM for pennies on the pound just for the rights to the engines and suspension. I can't imagine there are too many others who would really be interested, I believe they were trying to work a deal with Bajaj but with this new move it looks like that didn't go anywhere. It's sad to see any brand go and the effect it will have on staff and the knock on effect of dealers, let's hope that someone like CF will see the value in taking over the dealer network and maybe some of the production.
I don't think so . Bajaj will be owner thay already have 48% share.
Dealer prep and freight charges have destroyed motorcycle sales.
Greedy , selfish & swept warranty claims under a huge Austrian rug ,
Kato’s credo was. ‘We’re sure they’ll come back’ , everything will be sweet.
Self administration is not the Company collapsing, KTM are doing this for a period of 90 days to restructure to company.
Keep telling yourself that. They'll come up with 1.5 billion in 3 months... rrrright. Lol.
@@markjacobs3956 1.5 Billion where has that figure come from? They need a loan of £200 million by the end of the year and a restructuring plan. The same happened in 1992 and they got through that period. I'm no saying they are going to make it but they are not gone yet.
Google KTM debt 1.5 billion. It's just that simple.
No-one is going to buy a new KTM at the moment and used prices will drop like a stone, which means money will dry up even more and they're reputation is shot... they say it's a restructure to try and keep customers, but the only way I see KTM surviving is by someone else buying it and starting again...
Nobody here knows how this debt works. When you sell vehicles, you have to eat up the up-front cost. So you borrow a bunch of money un order to build thousands of bikes.
Now lets say you build on duke 890. Maybe it costs like 7000 to produce, you can sell it later on for 10000 or whatever the prices are now. You need to finance that 7000, but you ALSO have 7000 worth in assets. That being the physical bike. Now you can’t pay interest with a motorcycle, but you can try to sell them at a loss to still cover the loan amount.
So if KTM has a few billion in loans, that is likely also countered by a similar amount of assets. The question is if they can liquidate enough stock to service their debt to keep the company rolling. Not if they can literally pay off the entire debt in one go.
Poor quality and availability of parts and high prices - this is the problem. When it comes to Japanese motorcycles, even 20 years old can be easily repaired due to the availability of parts. When it comes to KTM, there is a problem with several year old motorcycles. I hope that KTM will think about it and will not make similar mistakes in the future because they can make great motorcycles.
If there is a future! 🤔
Excellent update Sean. Thanks.
KTM plans to apply for a period of self-administration on Friday. While the self-administration is in place, it will protect the company from creditors and enable KTM to remain independent and to manage its own assets during a period of restructuring. Stefan Pierer said that the goal is to agree on the restructuring plan with creditors within 90 days. So, while this may only be a temporary stay of execution, we shouldn't write off KTM just yet. Especially bearing in mind that KTM is Pierer's baby, and he is unlikely to let it fail without a fight. According to Forbes last year, he was worth 1.6B USD. Even if a proportion of this wealth is in the form of company shares, (the value of which has fallen alarmingly), he is still undoubtedly a very independently wealthy man and would probably be prepared to use his own money to rescue the company, if there was no other option.
They are 1.4 Billion Euro in debt. Bajaj of India owns 48% of the company, what they say and do will have bearing on what happens to the company.
Good point Luddite but like you I see it is a stay of execution as they need people to buy motorcycles whatever the plan to move cash around and reorganise.
He can see the writing on the wall bro ,he's out ,guaranteed
To be frank, i am not optimistic because they have been unable to solve their inventory problems. With the receivership status, they will face a sharp decline in sales because people don't to purchase when company is at risk and the new bikes which are much more appealing are coming soon too. Then the actual will be sold at scrap value or close. If they are able to sort their debts, they will sell only the newer models which will leave them totally losing money. What they are really in need is a new owner which will take some actions to restore confidence in the brand. I doubt they can reach break even for the 2 or 3 next years given their stock. On the comforting side, this is an opportunity to purchase a brand for a cheap price, this is why i wouldn't exclude KTM continuing but with different owners with different approach to market.
Very good points Sean. I agree it’s a very dirty trick to charge for reinstalling the options software - BMW cars do the same - they obviously already include the cost of these extras in the purchase price. The activation of software costs nothing so why come after owners for these no costs. From my perspective the worst thing about KTM is the weird and ugly headlight units - I wouldn’t buy one for just that reason alone.
Is it goodbye MV Agusta as well, they hold 25% of MV. Sadly they gained a reputation off undeserved unreliability, and not standing by their products.
Great video as usual. Really sad to see the collapse of a great brand.
I'm sad about KTM, ive had a 1290 SA and enjoyed it but parted with it after it started to go wrong! My wife had a 390 Duke which was delivered new with an oil leak! it can't be blamed too much on the China link, BMW have had their F series engines made there for many years and had few issues. I hope they get through this!!
Did the Duke stall, screen go blank and mist below 1000 miles , complete with cut off cable ties. Just my thoughts.
The 390 duke is made by Bajaj in India, not CF Moto on china. Also CF Moto only makes a very select few models and they have not really had any more problems than the Austrian models did.
I'm a truck driver and the "subscription features" issue reminds me of something I saw on MAN trucks: early Euro 6 MAN trucks had a stereo system which had Bluetooth audio, but subsequent versions of the same truck radio didn't have Bluetooth audio. You could put in an SD card with your audio tracks on it or (if the owner had specified it) plug in an AUX cable with your phone at the other end, but no Bluetooth audio. Clearly, MAN had decided to allow buyers to specify the feature or not, and of course, most buyers are corporate players buying whole fleets, not owner-drivers ordering for their own use, and a lot of them just chose the cheap option. It leaves a nasty taste in the mouth, that a company will build in features and then expect their customers to pay extra to use them, and allow bosses who buy them to cheap out and leave their staff, who have to sit in them for sometimes 12 hours a day or more, worse off.
The No Bullshit statement came to haunt them.. I own a KTM, and all I had was bullshit from the dealers and support.
Glad this popped up on my list. I have always thought KTMs were great, had no idea about poor customer support or reliability problems. Have ridden a couple KTMs in the past and loved them. The biggest hurdle I had with them was the cost, just expensive as hell so I always hesitated at buying one. Good info to know, thanks👍
That "demo period" is why I hope KTM never come back !!
Yep, arrogance in industrial strength. Contempt even.
How Ironic, 1 week ago I pulled over for a motorbike on the hard should of the M11 and spoke to the young man who stated his exhaust had fallen off after 1000 miles.
It was a sports bike of some sort with 23 plate, I took a photo as I was amazed. Now this video makes sense
This may be naive, but I wonder why KTM or Husqvarna couldn't re-issue a bunch of their old '70s era motocross bikes, and sell them "as is" to Americans (who would use them as trail bikes and dirt-lot motocross bikes. And yes, I know that KTM and Husqvarna are now the same company. But they weren't back in the day). A '77 KTM or Husky 250 mx bike (with the old two shock tech) with 8 inches of suspension travel is still no joke as a fun bike. They'd sell tons of them, as they could sell them for around $3,000 each. Maybe the problem would be "environmental concerns" with the two stroke engines? The Russian Guennady Moiseev won 3 world championships on the KTM 250s, and they weren't even full factory bikes. Well, I'm done day dreaming. I'm old now.
Demo mode pushed me from an 890 to a DR650. I used the savings to upgrade the DR’s suspension, seat, bars, pegs, exhaust, carb…and now have a bomb proof bike that’ll go anywhere, anytime.
haha! oh my gosh, they had the balls to do that? give you something when you initially bought the bike, then take it away and then if you like it, make you pay for it? my gosh, they deserve what's coming for them.
Yeah Dealers acted like they knew nothing of the Camshaft failures. That made me angry. Had they fixed a problem with a recall they may have survived
#1 demo mode. You buy the bike but cant access everything thats included unless you pay more. Im already being charged for those parts you put on but i cant use them.
#2. Reliability. Ktm knows there are problems yet doesnt really fix them or worse, keeps making them year after year.
#3. Lack luster choices. I like sport bikes with full fairings. I have a $6000 390 choice which is too small for me and then the next choice is $20k and up. No middle ground.
#3b. They all look basically the same. Just different degrees of ugliness.
How much did they waste developing the X Bow car I wonder.
Ya the x bow was a waste of capital
@@bloodspartan300 amazing track weapon though
Welp, there goes the new 390 Adventure R... and to think I was really looking forward to getting that bike.
Yeah me too! I think we’ll see that bike yet. KTM isn’t going anywhere!
@@verlinswarey507 I think the mandatory due diligence process might well scare off any potential buyer? Depends what they discover.
You made no mention of MV Agusta?????
Why buy a 790 duke when you can a CF moto version for 2k cheaper?
Iv owned a 21 model duke 125, defined unreliability, cost the dealer over £3.5k in warranty repairs..the bike cost £4.6k massive loss, lesson is to make a reliable bike
my first bike was a ktm rc390, bought it brand new from dealers, 2 weeks in, bike kept overheating and shut down, then another 2 weeks later, it has false neutral between 3rd and 4th. Going back to dealer of course expecting warranty. They told me to learn to ride motorbike lol. Ok sold it and never looked back from there, never had any issues with all my Yamahas after, Even the 3 Aprilia V4 i owned had more reliability, I think KTM should just move on and build other things just leaves bikes alone.
I bought a 1290 SAR new last year (April 2023). It’s currently in the dealers under warranty having a wiring harness swapped out as it chafed somewhere. I’ve done 10000km on it and 3/4 that off road in the Pyrenees so perhaps it’s taken its toll
From my experience, ktm themselves have been top notch, and the bike is a thing of wonder off road for its size and my lack of talent / the dealer here in Perpignan is KTM, Ducati, Suzuki and Honda and their customer service and comms are for s***
My concerns are about spares availability going forward as with the warranty almost up the main dealer won’t see me again hopefully, albeit the error code software probably isn’t that easy to access I imagine.
If they want their brand to survive (and I hope it does) I’m assuming that all that spares network and resourcing will be business as usual no?
Why is only 10 thousand klms offroad a acceptable reason to have dodgy wiring looms , its not acceptable at all . Unreliable and dangerous is what they are , there wiring looms have been rubbish from day one . Parasitic battery drains come standard , just rubbish compared to quality manufacturing and the other components like the wiring looms
@ well it’s happened and I’ve got 21k euros invested that I’m not getting back and they’re fixing it for free under guarantee
I’d prefer it not to have happened but it did
I don’t think Ktm are unique in having faults from new - friends with new range rovers have wished they’d never seen the damn things for example and written off thousands to get out of the awful mess
@@philmatthews9697 Not good at all some of these Automotive problems i see it . Modern marketing appears to be able to buy reputation or perception through the media . Expensive blanket marketing with gag orders contracted , i would have bought a ktm in 2008 and lucky i didnt with the crank case seal failures among other issues. Daul sport or enduro bikes only had a 3 month warranty and there parasitic drains in the looms flattening batteries without a tender connected ongoing . Is it weight saving wiring looms or just poor manufacturering of them along with the system isolation of draining power slowly. I have followed since 2008 and nothing has improved except the marketing. In AU we have a saftey recall website for cars etc is how i came to be on the list of emails so i chose Motorcycles as well for recall. Not a year has passed without a ktmhuska saftey recall on products . Fire , brakes may fail you name it . I give up and cant except they are innovators when the base bike dose not have the already proven on other brands Reliability base , Japanese looms have all the rub points sorted , no corrosion issues and no parasitic drain. ECU s 20 plus years old and still working i find amazing but true.
From where do you get the info that they will be liquidated ? They are now in a restructuring process and liquidation is only one of the possible outcomes.
I had 390 Duke 2016 model..terrible bike had it for 5 months and sold it ...5 months to long
I like your thesis on the matter. The ‘pay-to-keep-the-features-you-just-got-used-to’ thing is on the nose, nasty tasting.
I have other bikes but thought I'd try a 390 Adventure for a bit of green lane fun. So many problems and warranty claims with it. Also would be nice to have another colour choice other than Easy Jet Orange.
I may be living in an alternate reality but in the Midwest USA KTM / Husky is a strong majority of what you see guys running at the weekend warrior woods races. It’s not even close. The 300 is a staple.
Myself and five of my buddies all have 300s and they have been great.
I hope they come back stronger and wiser.
Great vlog. Love my KTM. Manufacturers must listen to customers...simply formula 😢😢😢
Thank you, that's kind 😊
I am having a Duke, even now, but the KTM dealers scammed me multiple times. When I complained to KTM headquarter, I was ignored. I have to spend money to sue them. Even though they settled this out of court, with me getting compensation, the way KTM doing business and treating their customers like golden goose will eventually catch up with them, like the sh*t they're having now.
This is what happens when you have more unhappy customers than happy. 1.4 Billion Euro debt will be tough to dig out from under.
As a Yamaha and Honda rider I only had one KTM the 300 2stroke .. and it was ok , but what is killing the market is the new generation riding surrons ..
Absolutely well said !. If I had to choose between a new CF Moto or KTM, it would be the former without a doubt. They deserve to do well. With winter coming, the industry will suffer generally even more too. I already own a KTM GT, 2016 , and brilliant it has been too ( touching wood ).
Even if by some miracle chance that KTM got back on its feet again, no motorcycle dealer would be willing to take on the brand, either as a first time opportunity or a carry-on arrangement.
I've never liked KTM. I know a lot of people think they are fantastic, but I really can't stand them. As far as I'm concerned their entire range is the ugliest bunch of bikes money can buy. They represent everything I don't like in a bike. I think you've got it bang on with your analysis of the problems. "Ready to race?"..... No, I'm not; and never have been. At the bike dealers I used to work in, they used to scoff at me because when a KTM pulled into the car park I used to say, "there's another unexploded bomb outside". Maybe it's just me.😂
Another consequence of the KTM disaster is MV Agusta, they bought it, or a major shareholding in 2022, so if KTM does die, it will probably take MV with it. This is a bugger because I really want a Brutale 1000RR, but if there is any doubt about the brands future continuity I just can't take the risk with 30K. And it's not like a big car brand will step in and buy MV, as did Audi with Ducati, because these giant car brands are under threat themselves with the stupid green agenda. Most people don't want EVs, but car manufacturers can't just keep making ICE powered vehicles because they are penalised at an unsustainable level if they don't sell enough EVs, which people don't buy, a vicious circle. Governments are just destroying huge industries for the sake of an imaginary climate issue, they cannot have done any impact analysis of such an extreme policy. Not only will millions of jobs in the manufacturers themselves be lost, but even more in the support industries, it's commercial Armageddon. As for electric bikes, the situation speaks for itself, almost all of the higher performance EB manufacturers have gone under, because no one wants them!! The EM, ES market is different, the customer demographic is not bikers, they are just commuters and utility users, so electric is good for that. Personally I will never buy or own an EV of any type, hopefully my existing bikes and cars will remain useable and see me out.
It’s worth remembering KTM started making off road bikes so no they don’t have a retro. The KTM 790 is very different bike to the CfMoto 800MT. It’s nearly 40kg lighter to start off with and a completely different ride. And they do have entry level bikes like the best in class 390 adventure. They haven’t gone yet despite what seems like half of you tube betting on their demise. There rant over. Ride safe 🙂
Fair comments Pete. Perhaps it's the optics that they needed to improve. The problem i have with the 390 adv and believe me I hankered over one of these myself was that it wasn't competitive in its class on price. In my view of course...
@ and that’s something I respect. We all have differing reasons for choosing the bikes we ride and most bikes are good bikes.
An operating loss of €100 million! I would be amazed to hear that there is anybody out there that would value KTM anywhere near that figure.
Sad news they build stonking bikes loved my 690 duke, and when I was 16 they made a sport moped which was proper bike size so fitted me great being a tall bugger, great ped the KTM comet cross, but all the prices were premium even their 390 range, 😢 another on bites the dust. Destined to be a future Chinese owned manufacturer, cheers Sean,…. Pete🇫🇷
I think the bikes were very well sprung, lightweight and best in class power. A lot to like 👍
Very interesting analysis Sean… I’d never assembled all those discrete elements into the comprehensive tale of woe which now faces them.
Demo mode alone is enough for me not to buy a bike
Good overview of what happened Sean. Well done.
Appreciate that thank you 😊 🙏
Oh well, suits them well for all the missery they caused to their customers. BMW and Triumph, don't go to the KTM path!
I was about to pull the trigger on a brand new KTM 890 because they were giving a great deal on them at my local dealer. Then a friend of mine told me about their camshafts issues, and then I looked at their financial problems and I said nope! Think I'm going to look for a slightly used Triumph Tiger 900 now.
I was looking at the 890SMT, great price, but was worried about issues, went with an 850 Tiger Sport. And I own a 19 SDGT.
Using China as an excuse is beating a dead horse. Can we come up with a better newer excuse, please?
I've always questioned, why would you buy a KTM when you can buy one of four Japanese manufacturers.