to be fair they're kind of just boring cards I'd rather see an interesting brew with new cards Even if it isn't as good rather than the same three cards we've seen in every sacrifice day
It seems like Blood Artist might be a better combo piece than the Marionette Apprentice. Edit: If you're willing to go into white, the optimal win condition might be Cruel Celebrant. It doesn't target, has two toughness to survive Bowmasters, and it still only two mana.
@@shatzinorris1417 It's also a mana less. The lifegain is important i think since if you are at 9 life you will run out of life before opponent if they're at 20.
Agreed. Zulaport/Blood Artist are definitely better for this combo. I actually made 2 Soultrader lists that both work amazingly. One is Jund that focuses more on the combo and the other is Mono B that's more of a Zombie Tribal Scam with the ability to combo off on turn 3. Soultrader is nuts and people are sleeping hard on it.
That's what I was thinking, so that it can be truly infinite. I guess Blood artist gets stopped by Leyline of Sanctity, but you can run a non-targeting option like Zulaport Cutthroat or Bastion of Remembrance instead.
at 26:00 we have the combo set up by saccing stitchers supplier casting warren soultrader then saccing the two creatures then casting marrionette saccing servo to cast gravecrawler
I'm playing Warren Soultrader combo in historic. What's great about the card is the multi-combo potential, as well as being able to win on turn 3. I personally prefer Blood Artist over Marionette as the lifegain is crucial in many cases, especially with Boros energy cats being quite popular. Combos from my version include: * WST + Chatterfang + BA = infinite drain and mana * WST + BA + Forsaken Miner = infinite drain * WST + Peregrin Took + Cauldron Familiar = infinite drain and mana * WST + Took + Chatterfang = infinite food, mana and squirrels, ultimately allowing you to draw into a combo piece (every 2 sacs results in 3 life from a food token, so 2 sacs = +1 life, +1 food and +4 squirrels, and you can obv trade the life surplus for another treasure) * Not full combo but WST + Chatterfang alone is a tonne of mana if you have another creature to sac, and many turn 3 wins are the result of these 2 powering out a Chord or CoCo Runs Fauna Shaman, Chord of Calling and CoCo for value and tutors, though just realised I should prob run Unearth alongside Shaman for WST recursion and potential discount.
@@CoreySchramm I mean... Sol Ring... XD that makes me wonder if you could T2 in modern or historic using the new Sol land - you could definitely at least get out a T2 CoCo if you went all in on it with a mana rock - but you're diluting things so much it's surely not worth it.
Just found out in a brawl game that if you make a forest a creature with Nissa who shakes the world then put springheart nantuko on with Spelunking on the battlefield you can make infinite forest as long as you make your land drop afterwards. It was crazy. Just saw your short but had no idea until now lol
Seems like the deck needs white for Cruel Celebrant (gains life and dodges bowmasters) and Sevinne's Reclamation (makes self mill less painful and allows for combos from yard).
Wouldn't it have been better to sideboard everything in for the mill matchup? An extra 15 cards would help keep you alive longer and all the sideboard cards looked live for the matchup. Some of them wouldn't have done much, but they would have done something. Or maybe I'm overestimating the value of an extra 25% time to find the combo.
As somebody who plays mill quite a bit, an extra 15 cards is worth less than you’d think, it at most buys you a turn and normally delays your own win by one too, the best play vs mill is to be aggressive early/get pieces down early as they have to do their setup before cards like drown in the loch are active and mana can be kept up for them, killing turn 5 instead of 4 doesn’t matter if you aren’t comboing on turn 3
As someone that's playing a version of this in historic - and sure, the metagames are different - but from my experience, turn 1 mana dorks are pretty huge. Given that the gameplan often involves getting out multiple 3 drops (Soultrader and Chatterfang) being able to get one of them out on turn 2 is huge, and having a mana dork also provides 2 mana on the turn you sac it to Soultrader *and* gives you a creature to sac to start a chain (with something like Chatterfang). The one caveat I'll say is that, again, I'm using the mana dork line in historic, so unlike modern I don't have to worry about Orcish Bowmasters sniping the dork.In modern you could run Delighted Halfling or Gilded Goose to have dorks and not have them die to Bowmaster, but that would be up to you.
So I looked it up and the CH at the start of CHTHONIAN is basically pronounced like it's a K - English is the language that makes the most sense, right? ;) Looks to me like the number 1 foil to this deck is... SOUL SISTERS? Is Soul Sisters good now?? 100 degrees Fahrenheit is about 38 Celsius aka very hot out :) I bet ONE LAND, ONE KEEP was something Richard came up with. And he probably told Crim too many times and Crim told you and it got stuck in your brain because of Crim.. but it's Richard that started it! I will point out that monoblack does have ways to remove artifacts, but you'll need to play a dirty, nasty, evil card: Karn, the Great Creator can animate an artifact, and then you can kill it because suddenly it's a creature. (There are other options in other formats.)
In game 1 match 1 you could mill grist and summon it with nightmare off bloodghast, effectively drawing one card once you play a land and Ghast comes back
I feel like a zulaport cutthroat or a blood artist would have been better than the marionette apprentice. Yes you lose the fabricate, but you gain life with each sacrifice making the combo truly infinite and sustainable.
I know this is super random but i think a new group of lands in tron style could be an interesting design space. Maybe make it a group of 4 that each tap for 2 rainbow if you have all of them and either produce just colorless or enter tapped. Or maybe a group of just 2 that become ancient tomb if you have both. In short i think groups of lands could be another interesting designspace besides just adding landyypes.
The last time they tried to do that “if you have two they both tap for 2” thing is called Locus lands and namely cloudpost in mirrodin, they were unbelievably broken and still a current legacy deck, and banned in modern, the issue with a thing like that is there are very few ways for the deck to play out. 1) they’re worse than previous ones, probably don’t see play, maybe as a backup beyond your 12 tron lands if they fit the slot. 2) they’re better or easier to set up than tron, instantly the best deck in most formats And as long as tron remains a playable deck, there is very little reason for any upgrade wotc makes for the deck to be to print better tron lands. Even cards that aren’t even meant to be mana acceleration like lotus field end up broken in formats because extra mana is just way too powerful. This ignores stuff like thespians stage etc etc making any kind of playing around with mana always riskier than you’d want it to be, and especially if you add a 4 card set of them, that means a deck has to be primarily colourless to use them, because 12 vs 16 colourless lands is a big jump.
@@zackestin1368 locus scale, thats the main diffetence. Also if they make you loose life when they tap for more mana thats not necessarily even on the level of tron. Lastly, thespian stage wouldnt work the same way it does with locusts as they would still need 2 differently named lands.
@@Shimatzu95 "if they make you lose life when they tap for more mana" you know this is ancient tomb right? a card that has been good for 29 years straight? youre insane.
I like birthing ritual in this deck, but sometimes has a sac-fodder problem.. still honing in on the best build, but def wanna try with soul cauldron 🙌
match two game two: play trader instead of apprentice. sac the two remaining creatures to apprentice for the treasures to play apprentice, then sac servo for the treasure to play grave crawler from discard and go off a turn earlier, giving your opponent one less turn to draw tron.
Against the mill deck, you could have forced the relic by playing the fetch land and then cracked the fetch land to get back two blood ghosts. Your Grist still would have had its plus one left to mill after the relic resolved.
26:00, you could’ve won that turn by playing Soultrader and then sacrificing your board to pay for the marionette apprentice, using the fabricate token to start the loop.
With how many hits, even some being subpar, would sliding in Coco be worth it? Not sure what you would cut, because nightmare and cauldron are both very strong and better selection potentially.
Seth using math to justify “one land one keep” was great.
I take that back. Him blaming math for the “one land one keep” is also great.
Dude forgot that Blood Artist, Zulaport Cutthroat, and Bastion of Remembrance exist
I guess marionette affects artifacts as well, also brings a 2nd body to sac.
TBH, it is the infamous Japanese brewers, they're wild out there
@@Gacek130 But Blood Artist, Zulaport and Bastion are actually infinte.
to be fair they're kind of just boring cards I'd rather see an interesting brew with new cards Even if it isn't as good rather than the same three cards we've seen in every sacrifice day
Marionette is slightly better because you can create the thopter and sack it to the nightmare. But honestly any of those in that slot will work
It seems like Blood Artist might be a better combo piece than the Marionette Apprentice.
Edit: If you're willing to go into white, the optimal win condition might be Cruel Celebrant. It doesn't target, has two toughness to survive Bowmasters, and it still only two mana.
Less clicks and leyline proof vs life and triggers on the opponent. its a tradeoff
Zulaport Cutthroat could work if you’re worried about leyline. It’s like a mixture of both artist and apprentice.
@@shatzinorris1417 It's also a mana less. The lifegain is important i think since if you are at 9 life you will run out of life before opponent if they're at 20.
Agreed. Zulaport/Blood Artist are definitely better for this combo. I actually made 2 Soultrader lists that both work amazingly. One is Jund that focuses more on the combo and the other is Mono B that's more of a Zombie Tribal Scam with the ability to combo off on turn 3. Soultrader is nuts and people are sleeping hard on it.
That's what I was thinking, so that it can be truly infinite. I guess Blood artist gets stopped by Leyline of Sanctity, but you can run a non-targeting option like Zulaport Cutthroat or Bastion of Remembrance instead.
Just got my first order from Card Kingdom! My girlfriend and I are going to our first commander night tomorrow, and we learn a lot from your videos!
12:03 once again, our opponent’s greatest weakness is illiteracy
at 26:00 we have the combo set up by saccing stitchers supplier casting warren soultrader then saccing the two creatures then casting marrionette saccing servo to cast gravecrawler
although the "combo" kills us first we could set up to attack for lethal on the next turn
It doesn't because they are losing a life for sacing crawler and for cracking the treasure while we only lose a life when sacing the crawler
oh got it, so we def could win there
I was wondering if anyone else caught that lol
I don't get it why you did not include some Blood Artist or similar, feels easier to win
I'm playing Warren Soultrader combo in historic. What's great about the card is the multi-combo potential, as well as being able to win on turn 3.
I personally prefer Blood Artist over Marionette as the lifegain is crucial in many cases, especially with Boros energy cats being quite popular.
Combos from my version include:
* WST + Chatterfang + BA = infinite drain and mana
* WST + BA + Forsaken Miner = infinite drain
* WST + Peregrin Took + Cauldron Familiar = infinite drain and mana
* WST + Took + Chatterfang = infinite food, mana and squirrels, ultimately allowing you to draw into a combo piece (every 2 sacs results in 3 life from a food token, so 2 sacs = +1 life, +1 food and +4 squirrels, and you can obv trade the life surplus for another treasure)
* Not full combo but WST + Chatterfang alone is a tonne of mana if you have another creature to sac, and many turn 3 wins are the result of these 2 powering out a Chord or CoCo
Runs Fauna Shaman, Chord of Calling and CoCo for value and tutors, though just realised I should prob run Unearth alongside Shaman for WST recursion and potential discount.
in commander you can combo turn 2,
T1 swamp, sol ring, arcane signet, gravecrawler
T2 swamp, zuluport/blood artist, warren soultrader
win
@@CoreySchramm I mean... Sol Ring... XD that makes me wonder if you could T2 in modern or historic using the new Sol land - you could definitely at least get out a T2 CoCo if you went all in on it with a mana rock - but you're diluting things so much it's surely not worth it.
You need blood artist for historic version too, cause marionette isn’t a crime. I play 3-4 of each, still narrowing
Just found out in a brawl game that if you make a forest a creature with Nissa who shakes the world then put springheart nantuko on with Spelunking on the battlefield you can make infinite forest as long as you make your land drop afterwards. It was crazy. Just saw your short but had no idea until now lol
I don't think you even need Spelunking if you don't spend mana with the Nissa land.
You don't need spelunking.
Seems like the deck needs white for Cruel Celebrant (gains life and dodges bowmasters) and Sevinne's Reclamation (makes self mill less painful and allows for combos from yard).
23:50 ah yes, the Planeswalker known as "Grief"
Wouldn't it have been better to sideboard everything in for the mill matchup? An extra 15 cards would help keep you alive longer and all the sideboard cards looked live for the matchup. Some of them wouldn't have done much, but they would have done something. Or maybe I'm overestimating the value of an extra 25% time to find the combo.
As somebody who plays mill quite a bit, an extra 15 cards is worth less than you’d think, it at most buys you a turn and normally delays your own win by one too, the best play vs mill is to be aggressive early/get pieces down early as they have to do their setup before cards like drown in the loch are active and mana can be kept up for them, killing turn 5 instead of 4 doesn’t matter if you aren’t comboing on turn 3
@15:43 you should have baited the counter with grist. you had enough mana with sacing the bloodghast to cast both grist and chatterfang
7:59 there's no way that tapping and untapping wasn't your opponent trying to cast spell pierce, i laughed out loud
Respect: I don't like Blood Artist either
OK Zoomers either you get it or you don't. Pay attention to the into ...
As someone that's playing a version of this in historic - and sure, the metagames are different - but from my experience, turn 1 mana dorks are pretty huge. Given that the gameplan often involves getting out multiple 3 drops (Soultrader and Chatterfang) being able to get one of them out on turn 2 is huge, and having a mana dork also provides 2 mana on the turn you sac it to Soultrader *and* gives you a creature to sac to start a chain (with something like Chatterfang).
The one caveat I'll say is that, again, I'm using the mana dork line in historic, so unlike modern I don't have to worry about Orcish Bowmasters sniping the dork.In modern you could run Delighted Halfling or Gilded Goose to have dorks and not have them die to Bowmaster, but that would be up to you.
Amped Raptor + Asmor in game 5 is pretty cute.
I wonder if CoCo would be worth it in this deck given it has a huge amount of creatures under 3 MV
Bloodcheifs thirst can get PWs
Hitting 2 or less PWs is all of a sudden very relevant
Wright of the Reliquary.
End of game one I think you can hear CC meowing lol
So I looked it up and the CH at the start of CHTHONIAN is basically pronounced like it's a K - English is the language that makes the most sense, right? ;)
Looks to me like the number 1 foil to this deck is... SOUL SISTERS? Is Soul Sisters good now??
100 degrees Fahrenheit is about 38 Celsius aka very hot out :)
I bet ONE LAND, ONE KEEP was something Richard came up with. And he probably told Crim too many times and Crim told you and it got stuck in your brain because of Crim.. but it's Richard that started it!
I will point out that monoblack does have ways to remove artifacts, but you'll need to play a dirty, nasty, evil card: Karn, the Great Creator can animate an artifact, and then you can kill it because suddenly it's a creature. (There are other options in other formats.)
In game 1 match 1 you could mill grist and summon it with nightmare off bloodghast, effectively drawing one card once you play a land and Ghast comes back
I feel like a zulaport cutthroat or a blood artist would have been better than the marionette apprentice. Yes you lose the fabricate, but you gain life with each sacrifice making the combo truly infinite and sustainable.
I know this is super random but i think a new group of lands in tron style could be an interesting design space. Maybe make it a group of 4 that each tap for 2 rainbow if you have all of them and either produce just colorless or enter tapped. Or maybe a group of just 2 that become ancient tomb if you have both.
In short i think groups of lands could be another interesting designspace besides just adding landyypes.
The last time they tried to do that “if you have two they both tap for 2” thing is called Locus lands and namely cloudpost in mirrodin, they were unbelievably broken and still a current legacy deck, and banned in modern, the issue with a thing like that is there are very few ways for the deck to play out.
1) they’re worse than previous ones, probably don’t see play, maybe as a backup beyond your 12 tron lands if they fit the slot.
2) they’re better or easier to set up than tron, instantly the best deck in most formats
And as long as tron remains a playable deck, there is very little reason for any upgrade wotc makes for the deck to be to print better tron lands. Even cards that aren’t even meant to be mana acceleration like lotus field end up broken in formats because extra mana is just way too powerful.
This ignores stuff like thespians stage etc etc making any kind of playing around with mana always riskier than you’d want it to be, and especially if you add a 4 card set of them, that means a deck has to be primarily colourless to use them, because 12 vs 16 colourless lands is a big jump.
@@zackestin1368 locus scale, thats the main diffetence. Also if they make you loose life when they tap for more mana thats not necessarily even on the level of tron. Lastly, thespian stage wouldnt work the same way it does with locusts as they would still need 2 differently named lands.
@@Shimatzu95 "if they make you lose life when they tap for more mana" you know this is ancient tomb right? a card that has been good for 29 years straight? youre insane.
@@zackestin1368 tron os powerfull for the same reason so making a ancient tomb that requires 2 different pieces would be the idea
I like birthing ritual in this deck, but sometimes has a sac-fodder problem.. still honing in on the best build, but def wanna try with soul cauldron 🙌
Currently using Warren Soultrader in an Abzan Asmo Food deck! Works great with Samwise and Cauldron Familiar.
mana dorks plus collected company might be a better angle than the graveyard stuff
match two game two: play trader instead of apprentice. sac the two remaining creatures to apprentice for the treasures to play apprentice, then sac servo for the treasure to play grave crawler from discard and go off a turn earlier, giving your opponent one less turn to draw tron.
I played a similar deck at fnm last week except I was playing 4x birthing ritual as well as chthonian, and ritual was the best card in the deck
I infinitely(-ish) love every deck Seth builds.
no "heeloooo everyone" + introduction? D: are you okay seth, probably better known as saffron oooliiive?
If we're running a lands toolbox with wight or the reliquary.... Where's the bog?
Could springleaf drum slot into this deck as a way to make mana off the creatures being sanctified to soul trader?
is wight of the reliquary+bloodghast+intruder alarm anything in modern?
I combo with wayward servant Warren soul trader and grave crawler
We're having a heat wave in Buffalo too, and the AC broke.
Man I love Abrew, and the thumbnails are always so cute!!
Same
I did something similar with soul trader krenko and blood artist.
Against the mill deck, you could have forced the relic by playing the fetch land and then cracked the fetch land to get back two blood ghosts. Your Grist still would have had its plus one left to mill after the relic resolved.
26:00, you could’ve won that turn by playing Soultrader and then sacrificing your board to pay for the marionette apprentice, using the fabricate token to start the loop.
With how many hits, even some being subpar, would sliding in Coco be worth it? Not sure what you would cut, because nightmare and cauldron are both very strong and better selection potentially.
Wait... You got a job for Deutsche Bahn? What is DB?
Could chord of calling pull this decks room together?
seth has been listening to terrance howard to much math is a lie lol
At least you didn't blame farewell
Also we need a cat cam!
Diregraf Collossus is better choice then chaterfang
If you look at HarryMTG's list its quite similar and wins with either marionette apprentice or blood artist
Why would you not use blood artist 😅
It pains me that hes not running blood artist 😢
I love that Seth's cat just showed up one day and said 'sup, I live here now'
26:00 so who wants to point out he can win that turn.
Adding white for Kemball is infinite
Me on math tests in that last game
Honestly surprised we didn’t go white for cards like Wayward Servant or Cruel Celebrant to actually go infinite.
or just play blood artist and zulaport cutthroat
This is a birthing ritual deck
This feels like a Chord of Calling Or Coco deck...
No blood artist or zulaport?
His deck is all creatures. Do i smell a coco?
99 percent arena legal
Buried alive, unearth, helping hand?
wow I never catch the release time of a video lol
Okay, that turn 2 Trinisphere is pretty sick.
Definitely forgot about blood artist
always a good day when cece shows up
that game agains mono black was peak
Game 3 against mono black was very long and strange lmao
Also lol at last match: Saffron Olive? More like "Math-wrong" Olive 😂
Yawgmoth at home?
I hate this mode of magic so did not watch nor give a fuck.
This never understand whats going on with this client, much prefer Arena
Oh wow we finally broke gravecrawler
Bro why do you talk like that
Bro made communist magic
EDIT: Just kidding Seth you’re a wonderful person and (probably) not a communist. Have an awesome day!
What’s wrong with being a communist? 🤷🏻♀️