55:10 Not yelling, just here to educate people: yes, you CAN target your 1/1army with a bowmasters trigger. It will be a 2/2 with 1 damage assigned to it. The explanation is state based actions aren't checked during a trigger that is being resolved, only before and after, so the army would be a 1/1 with a damage assigned to it and then get the counter before state based actions are checked.
Poor jub77 you know he had to be a little angry at himself evoking a grief after either forgetting the protection or thinking turning it into an Elk turned that off.
Having recently swapped from corrosion to tutleage for the loot effect - I ran into some interesting differences, tefer's tutelage targets - so one ring and protection effects guard against it - corrosion doesn't target. Also corrosion is a bit better for multiplayer - just thought i'd point these out, because at first i thought Tef Tut was strictly better - but it's not the case.
Hey Seth, probably better known as SaffronOlive! vs Sneak and Show in the post-sideboard game, opponent put Sneak Attack into play with Show and Tell. Why didn't you put Teferi's Tutelage into play instead of a land?
I would switch to more Corrosion and less Tutelage. Yes, you lose the loot on ETB, but it doesn't target and this gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Metropolis Reformer effects.
I think this combo could be made even better with Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator He allows you to not lose life and just exile cards so you could pay more than your life total for Necro and mill out the opponent before you mill yourself
Needle stops activated abilities, bowmaster is a triggered ability. Activated Abilities are ones that you have to pay a cost for, where triggered abilities generally say "when X" or "at X" as they trigger when a certain thing happens.
Bowmaster is actually a triggered ability, pithing needle only turns off activated abilities (you can tell an activated ability because it always has an activation cost followed by a colon)
It really is a shame that regular mill didnt get any upgrades. But probably because EDH scrubs cry about mill so they didnt want to put any good mill spells in Comm.. I mean Modern Horizons 3
@ianshevlin299 You must never have tried to make a mill deck before lmao. Players cry all the time when you mill them and they see their fancy $50 card enter the graveyard. Has nothing to do with Mill actually being good
As someone who plays both 60 card and EDH, I can tell you for certain that I don't mind mill nearly as much in EDH as I do in 60 card. So, at least for me and probably a lot of others, your complaint is entirely wrong.
@Juggernautohyeah Mill players don't care about Mill because we understand Mill isn't good lmao Sounds like you don't get out enough. That's why you had to say "probably". Because you don't know
23:30 - You live dangerously, Seth. If they had another Bow Master in hand they could've sniped you during their upkeep. That was more mill than you needed.
I think fewer Arena zoomers would hate mill so much if Tutelage wasn't absolutely heinous in the app Takes forever to aim its triggers and longer to resolve them, you can FEEL the salt building lmao
The more powerful a format gets the more it becomes around key card synergies in your deck and recognizing which your opponents are using and stopping them, it’s a type of magic you have to appreciate to enjoy, sheoldred is only as good as it is because of one ring, brainstorm, and faithless looting existing in so many decks in the format.
Yeah, as an ex-judge I yelled a little at that moment, because APNAP will always be imprinted in my brain. Sure, not everyone should know all the rules, but playing for so many years and blutantly ignoring one of four golden rules is... Well, anyway, it's one of the things we love Seth for =)
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure you can ping the bowmaster token, and it won't die because the ability resolves fully and amazes before state based actions take effect to kill the token
55:10 Creatures dying due to marked damage is a state based action. (Or dying from having 0 toughness or hit with deathtouch.) Which are not checked in the middle of resolving an ability. Only when priority gets passed around. The army will for a moment have 1 damage and 1 toughness but by the time you check state based action it will already have a toughness of 2. This timing is also important for creatures with toughness based on cards in hand while wheeling or based on (creature) cards in graveyard while resolving Living End. This also means when you hit a Sheoldred with (Expansion/)Explosion she will live just long enough to watch you draw all those cards and hurt you. Decree of Pain is fine though. Since the instruction for destroying something is to put it into the graveyard from the battlefield, she will have already left the battlefield by the time you draw. Shatter the Sky is not fine with Sheoldred because of the order of the instructions on the card.
@@nephdrummond3168 In the upkeep step the opponent would gain priority after untapping but before drawing on an empty library, so they would have a chance to flash in a bowmaster before losing the game. Seth was also afraid of this happening with a Lightning Helix instead of a bowmaster around 48:53.
Kinda funny to see Seth go all-in on One Ring and Sheoldred, since he frequently dunks on how busted they are, and tends to avoid playing them since he wants to win on jank and merit rather than busted cards. 4 Necrodominance, 4 One Ring, 3 Sheoldred. Boy, I hope we win!
The best part of these videos is when Seth plays some rogue version of a deck. "Wait are we beating Show and Tell? Is this deck good?" Meanwhile opponent is playing some janky sneak attack deck that just happens to also play show and tell.
At 55:10, you should be able to hit the orc army. Dying from having 0 toughness is a state based action, so it won't be checked until after the trigger has been resolved entirely. Orc army is set to 0-> orc army +1/+1-> orc army lives.
To combat Leyline of Sanctity, maybe play a 3-3 split of the tutelage effects? While Tefari's gives you the ETB loot effect, Psychic Corrosion does not target ("each opponent" instead of "target opponent").
Hi! I got a cheap electric eraser not long ago that works well, it came with two sizes of eraser refill, one of which is the same diameter as the Tombow Mono Zero. It works incredibly, combining the best elements of both. I may try the small refill in an 18v dremel to see if i can get slightly cleaner results.
"How WIll You Win if Your Library is Empty?" Writing this comment before the video to say that at least 2 particular design mistakes on cardboard come to mind.
i had a crab mill deck running teferi's tutelage, fraying sanity and the one ring, along with glimpse the unthinkable. Reliably mills the opponent by turns 5-8 if I remember correctly. Glad to see tutelage get some play on this channel
27:22 should’ve just played the Ring here. Buy yourself a turn and some card-draw. If he could’ve countered the Ring, he would’ve also been able to counter March.
27:30 why waiting for your opponant turn if you are always going to kill the bow boii just kill him dont take the chance they have counter spell it also save you one health? Sometime you dont have to play instant at instant speed. Also why the black Flare it look real bad in your deck the only sac foder you have is bow boii woulud not drow in the loch be better since you are milling? anyway love the vid sorry for the backsit gaming
I still feel like The One Ring should be restricted down to just 1 copy for both flavor reasons and for being salty about being fogged 4 turns in a row by four copies of One Ring
Is anyone else just so bored of orcish bowmasters and the one ring? Like there is some diversity in modern and timeless and thats great but those cards are just so boring to watch and to play with and against. I don't mind loosing but I don't want to be bored.
Couldn't make it past the first game - formats like this are "play blue or lose" and it's really ruining the game. My life for a format where green has a chance
I forgot to make this comment on ur phyrexian obliterator deck but I thought it would work well with either the many green my monster fights ur monster spells or with the pariah card that if I remember correctly says all damage to u is directed at enchanted creature
seth! would you ever consider thought distortion against control in a dark ritual deck, 6 mana is steep in timeless but its such a house against control decks, love the content as always ❤
Of course the first opponent salt roped you, they’re a crybaby control player, they see the game is no longer theirs and they become the saltiest crybaby ever.
54:57 Plays into chalice, gets distracted by 1 damage amass + 1damage amass, makes plan to play march into chalice on 1, keeps a bunch of 1 mana spells to end the turn MTG Goldfish indeed
The Sphinxs Tutelage turbo fog deck from.. ~2015 was the first modern deck I built. I hadn't been playing MtG for very long at the time I saw that video, but it was instantly my favourite. Lol
How do you feel about Fraying Sanity over Psychic Corrosion? You don't get the triggers off Necro, but it seems functionally the same and makes Tutelage stronger without needing to full send with Necro.
Hey Seth! Against the Blood Moon deck you can actually target the orc army at 1/1. I've tried it before on Arena and it seems like the two abilities need to resolve before the death trigger would take effect. It would be a 2/1 after damage and would reset to 2/2 on end of turn.
![DDG & G Herbo - Nosey [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I9Ra0Zc2NlQ/mqdefault.jpg)
55:10 Not yelling, just here to educate people: yes, you CAN target your 1/1army with a bowmasters trigger. It will be a 2/2 with 1 damage assigned to it. The explanation is state based actions aren't checked during a trigger that is being resolved, only before and after, so the army would be a 1/1 with a damage assigned to it and then get the counter before state based actions are checked.
Good explanation 👍 I was about to do so myself
23:42 i like how casting the dark rituals here is basically the same as if you had just exiled them to the march
Nothing makes me happier than seeing a lotus field player salt scoop.
"Oh nooo poor Lotus field control, are you sad that you lost a game? Poor you!"
Including lose apparently @@fredt1983
Wish they banned that shit in pioneer
Pretty sure he got disconnected
but...but...I play lotus field...
Turbo tutage is back? And even more Turbo!???!
I built both your Sphinx's tutelage in Standard and your Teferi's tutelage on Arena back in the day.
i have fond memories of Sphinx's tutelage in a GU turbofog deck back in the day in standard
Alright alright I get it Seth, you've convinced me to build a blue black mill deck.
You say that like blue black Mill isn’t a popular meta deck in both timeless and historic lol. Check those lists out for a good starting point.
@@HomeCookinMTG I figured it was. I'm tied though. Not sure if I do blue black or just straight blue with bruvac as commander
I imagine Crim is saying the same thing.
This feels like the type of deck that the second anyone else tries, they immediately go 0-5 despite playing it 50% more optimally.
Poor jub77 you know he had to be a little angry at himself evoking a grief after either forgetting the protection or thinking turning it into an Elk turned that off.
Now I want to build Zur the Enchanter with this combo.
Having recently swapped from corrosion to tutleage for the loot effect - I ran into some interesting differences, tefer's tutelage targets - so one ring and protection effects guard against it - corrosion doesn't target. Also corrosion is a bit better for multiplayer - just thought i'd point these out, because at first i thought Tef Tut was strictly better - but it's not the case.
This reminds me of the turbo fog deck from a while ago
Built something similar and I used beseech for tutelage numbers 5-8 since it gets both sides of the combo and also gets Shelly and TOR
Good Morning ☀️
Magic
The legend
Hey Seth, probably better known as SaffronOlive!
vs Sneak and Show in the post-sideboard game, opponent put Sneak Attack into play with Show and Tell. Why didn't you put Teferi's Tutelage into play instead of a land?
15:00 without condoning nor condemning, I understand
I would switch to more Corrosion and less Tutelage. Yes, you lose the loot on ETB, but it doesn't target and this gets around Leyline of Sanctity and Metropolis Reformer effects.
Veil of Summer also could have really hosed Tutelage in game 2.
Love this deck. Excited to port it over to Modern.
I would love to see a modern version lol, fight the bird
"You cant Stifle losing the game" bruh lmao
I think this combo could be made even better with Ashiok, Wicked Manipulator
He allows you to not lose life and just exile cards so you could pay more than your life total for Necro and mill out the opponent before you mill yourself
With all that mill, I think Pithing Needle is better than it looks in your sideboard.
Jace "if i draw a card with an empty library, i win instead of losing"
Portral of thran
"Pay 4, flash in a historic card"
42:02 Was there a reason to not put in Teferi's Tutelage instead of the land?
dark ritual is a great card but personally i'd side it out more
What kind of queues are you playing in to run into that prison pile that bloodmooned themself
We need sphynx's tutelage. I miss that card
54:59 lol
Sorry im a bit new to magic, but wouldnt pithing needle work naming bowmasters to not deal with the pings?
Needle stops activated abilities, bowmaster is a triggered ability. Activated Abilities are ones that you have to pay a cost for, where triggered abilities generally say "when X" or "at X" as they trigger when a certain thing happens.
Bowmaster is actually a triggered ability, pithing needle only turns off activated abilities (you can tell an activated ability because it always has an activation cost followed by a colon)
“How will you win if your library is empty!” Hmmmmm
It really is a shame that regular mill didnt get any upgrades. But probably because EDH scrubs cry about mill so they didnt want to put any good mill spells in Comm.. I mean Modern Horizons 3
What players are complaining about mill in a 99 card deck?
No one cries about mill, the problem is wizards not commander players
@ianshevlin299
You must never have tried to make a mill deck before lmao.
Players cry all the time when you mill them and they see their fancy $50 card enter the graveyard.
Has nothing to do with Mill actually being good
As someone who plays both 60 card and EDH, I can tell you for certain that I don't mind mill nearly as much in EDH as I do in 60 card. So, at least for me and probably a lot of others, your complaint is entirely wrong.
@Juggernautohyeah
Mill players don't care about Mill because we understand Mill isn't good lmao
Sounds like you don't get out enough. That's why you had to say "probably".
Because you don't know
Firsttttt!!
34:27 Seth blissfully unaware of how lucky he was to dodge the three endurances in his opponents deck
this is exactly what I thought. Discarding all the gas and keeping all the lands is not a cautious move.
23:30 - You live dangerously, Seth. If they had another Bow Master in hand they could've sniped you during their upkeep. That was more mill than you needed.
That's a good call out
I think fewer Arena zoomers would hate mill so much if Tutelage wasn't absolutely heinous in the app
Takes forever to aim its triggers and longer to resolve them, you can FEEL the salt building lmao
Opponent #2 was truly a class act, letting Seth go off when its clear it's over
Opponent: *plays Blood Moon*
Seth: You dare use my own spells against me?
It’s honestly so boring watching this format when every game against black revolves around sheoldred and bow masters.
The more powerful a format gets the more it becomes around key card synergies in your deck and recognizing which your opponents are using and stopping them, it’s a type of magic you have to appreciate to enjoy, sheoldred is only as good as it is because of one ring, brainstorm, and faithless looting existing in so many decks in the format.
1:09:00 Seth, active player, nonactive player. Your triggers go on the stack first, opponent's resolve first.
Yeah, as an ex-judge I yelled a little at that moment, because APNAP will always be imprinted in my brain. Sure, not everyone should know all the rules, but playing for so many years and blutantly ignoring one of four golden rules is... Well, anyway, it's one of the things we love Seth for =)
The Teferi control player would salt out.
Not 100% sure, but I'm pretty sure you can ping the bowmaster token, and it won't die because the ability resolves fully and amazes before state based actions take effect to kill the token
Correct.
55:10 Creatures dying due to marked damage is a state based action. (Or dying from having 0 toughness or hit with deathtouch.) Which are not checked in the middle of resolving an ability. Only when priority gets passed around. The army will for a moment have 1 damage and 1 toughness but by the time you check state based action it will already have a toughness of 2. This timing is also important for creatures with toughness based on cards in hand while wheeling or based on (creature) cards in graveyard while resolving Living End. This also means when you hit a Sheoldred with (Expansion/)Explosion she will live just long enough to watch you draw all those cards and hurt you. Decree of Pain is fine though. Since the instruction for destroying something is to put it into the graveyard from the battlefield, she will have already left the battlefield by the time you draw. Shatter the Sky is not fine with Sheoldred because of the order of the instructions on the card.
Maybe not go down to 1 at 23:50 just in case they up keep flash in Bowmasters
Maybe I’m missing something here, but they were fully tapped out so it should have been free and clear to do so right?
@@nephdrummond3168 In the upkeep step the opponent would gain priority after untapping but before drawing on an empty library, so they would have a chance to flash in a bowmaster before losing the game. Seth was also afraid of this happening with a Lightning Helix instead of a bowmaster around 48:53.
Kinda funny to see Seth go all-in on One Ring and Sheoldred, since he frequently dunks on how busted they are, and tends to avoid playing them since he wants to win on jank and merit rather than busted cards. 4 Necrodominance, 4 One Ring, 3 Sheoldred. Boy, I hope we win!
The best part of these videos is when Seth plays some rogue version of a deck. "Wait are we beating Show and Tell? Is this deck good?"
Meanwhile opponent is playing some janky sneak attack deck that just happens to also play show and tell.
Could this deck use inquisition of kozilek instead of thoughtsieze? Idk I feel like the two life matters here
I'd rather lose two life to Thoughtseize than the game to Sheoldred, the Apocalypse.
This seems like a good home for the new Tamiyo. If you draw half your deck you win.
Would have been really funny if op in the second match game 1 had the 3rd bow masters in hand to kill you on their upkeep
How to make a janky deck?
Take Sheoldred, One ring, Bowmasters, Necro, Dark Ritual, Fatal Push....
Add 4 janky cards
👍Sucess, you made a janky deck!👍
this deck is just as borken as modern neo-brand
truely the most borken deck in timeless
I gotta ask, who does the art for the thumbnails? Theyre always so charming.
Adriano Kitani
Now THIS is podracing
At 55:10, you should be able to hit the orc army. Dying from having 0 toughness is a state based action, so it won't be checked until after the trigger has been resolved entirely.
Orc army is set to 0-> orc army +1/+1-> orc army lives.
"Turn a weakness into a strength!"
. . . . . . . . -Darkwing Duck
There really should be some way for Wizards to punish control players who salty rope.
To combat Leyline of Sanctity, maybe play a 3-3 split of the tutelage effects? While Tefari's gives you the ETB loot effect, Psychic Corrosion does not target ("each opponent" instead of "target opponent").
Sphinx tutelage, curse of the bloody tome and Talrand with cheap cantrips was my go to deck when I first started playing
Hi! I got a cheap electric eraser not long ago that works well, it came with two sizes of eraser refill, one of which is the same diameter as the Tombow Mono Zero. It works incredibly, combining the best elements of both. I may try the small refill in an 18v dremel to see if i can get slightly cleaner results.
Tutelage is such a fun card! I have it in my Nekuzar EDH deck. I combo it with Teferi’s Puzzle Box and Ageless Insight 😂
Sphinx’s Tutelage, my love.
"How WIll You Win if Your Library is Empty?"
Writing this comment before the video to say that at least 2 particular design mistakes on cardboard come to mind.
I don't think you're legally allowed to salt rope if you're playing lotus field.
i had a crab mill deck running teferi's tutelage, fraying sanity and the one ring, along with glimpse the unthinkable. Reliably mills the opponent by turns 5-8 if I remember correctly. Glad to see tutelage get some play on this channel
27:22 should’ve just played the Ring here. Buy yourself a turn and some card-draw. If he could’ve countered the Ring, he would’ve also been able to counter March.
Plays shelodred, bow master, necro, one ring.... Is this deck actually good? Well you're playing the most busted cards Id hope so...
27:30 why waiting for your opponant turn if you are always going to kill the bow boii just kill him dont take the chance they have counter spell it also save you one health? Sometime you dont have to play instant at instant speed.
Also why the black Flare it look real bad in your deck the only sac foder you have is bow boii woulud not drow in the loch be better since you are milling?
anyway love the vid sorry for the backsit gaming
I still feel like The One Ring should be restricted down to just 1 copy for both flavor reasons and for being salty about being fogged 4 turns in a row by four copies of One Ring
Seems brave to play best of 3 in timeless/historic. I run an uncastable gaea's blessing in some of my best of ONE decks!
Dont forget Sheoldred plus Necro and Tutelage makes your opponent lose 4 life every time you activate the Necro. You should win prior to the mill out.
Is anyone else just so bored of orcish bowmasters and the one ring? Like there is some diversity in modern and timeless and thats great but those cards are just so boring to watch and to play with and against. I don't mind loosing but I don't want to be bored.
Couldn't make it past the first game - formats like this are "play blue or lose" and it's really ruining the game. My life for a format where green has a chance
I forgot to make this comment on ur phyrexian obliterator deck but I thought it would work well with either the many green my monster fights ur monster spells or with the pariah card that if I remember correctly says all damage to u is directed at enchanted creature
Seth... do something with Echoes of Eternity before they ban it. Fuck me they should ban it. Seriously, what a card.
Maybe add locust god to the deck to make a swarm of flying goblins? And/or add cards that allow you yo have no max hand size to the deck as well
seth! would you ever consider thought distortion against control in a dark ritual deck, 6 mana is steep in timeless but its such a house against control decks, love the content as always ❤
Of course the first opponent salt roped you, they’re a crybaby control player, they see the game is no longer theirs and they become the saltiest crybaby ever.
i want an against the odds with this idea but you can only use looting effects like a red blue loot deck. I image it would be much harder.
Pretty tired of how much Bowmaster warps everything
How many times have I heard Seth say "Wait, is this deck actually good?"
Arenas super janky but it almost gives validation to know Iam not the only one getting rigged out lol
Can't help but point out that Seth's last video stated only casuals play mill decks ....
4;13 Me, I want to punish people for drawing cards.
i would have scooped in game two against control too, i value my own sanity more than the win.
57:00 reminder that your blood moon deck needs mountains now or the new flood moon merfolk will lock you out.
The lotus field match id of played the one ring first since you have 2 of them
Not convinced by demonic tutor btw, it seems to me like beseech the mirror is so often better
54:57 Plays into chalice, gets distracted by 1 damage amass + 1damage amass, makes plan to play march into chalice on 1, keeps a bunch of 1 mana spells to end the turn
MTG Goldfish indeed
March is fine into chalice because on the stack it has a mv of 1+x so cost never 1
I miss the days of modern and legacy SaffronOlive videos
Gonzalez Frank Wilson William Hernandez Steven
seems like the deck abbreviates to TNT for a reason
seth plz stopl, arena is playing these and i wanna play x/1s
38:50 The amount of lands drawn so far this game is insane.
The Sphinxs Tutelage turbo fog deck from.. ~2015 was the first modern deck I built. I hadn't been playing MtG for very long at the time I saw that video, but it was instantly my favourite. Lol
The round he hit every land in his deck with card draw
Oh damn, what a bitch-ass combo. Love it.
Isn't brainstorm a great card in this deck?
How do you feel about Fraying Sanity over Psychic Corrosion? You don't get the triggers off Necro, but it seems functionally the same and makes Tutelage stronger without needing to full send with Necro.
Hey Seth! Against the Blood Moon deck you can actually target the orc army at 1/1. I've tried it before on Arena and it seems like the two abilities need to resolve before the death trigger would take effect. It would be a 2/1 after damage and would reset to 2/2 on end of turn.
THE ORC DOES NOT DIE WHEN YOU PING IT #yelledat
isnt necropotence legal in timeless? why not play that instead of necrodominance
Because Necropotence doesn't actually draw you cards -- it puts them into exile, and then into your hand.
Could you play this in modern?
It would be nice if drawing cards didn't require committing a quarter of your deck to answering Sheoldred and Bowmasters.
Hey yous kids started this war!! Used ta be only blue drew cards!
@@mikeydildos Don't look at me, I'm a blue player! 😹