@@mist12345678910 The living through the arm thing is real though. When Liquid takes over Ocelot in MGS2 that's actually happening in the lore of the game. Ocelot removed liquids arm from his body and replaced it with a robotic arm for that very reason. Because of the possessions though, it gave him the IDEA of self-hypnosis as a convenient cover, using double think in order to covertly realize the will of the Boss by pulling the wool over Snake's eyes by occluding his true goal. People forget that Metal Gear as a series is, and always has been, a "magical realist" setting. Magical realism is a literary genre defined by oxford as "stories that have, typically, a strong narrative drive, in which the recognizably realistic mingles with the unexpected and the inexplicable, and in which elements of dream, fairy story, or mythology combine with the everyday, often in a mosaic or kaleidoscopic pattern of refraction and recurrence." Some other great examples of Magic Realist narrative are the novels "Midnight's Children" by Salamon Rushdie, "Love in the Time of Cholera" by Grabiel Garcia Marqeuz, and the novellas "The Trial" and "The Metamorphosis" by German novelist Franz Kafka.
Being a soldier means being a follower. The respect that big boss wanted for them was freedom. The American meme is the war economy, which freedom cannot exist within. Outer heaven is an anarchist state where people that can defend themselves are free to. It's the reason why Big Boss never stopped being a dog of war with them. Until there is no more power, no more true war, everyone is a soldier, a dog of war.
@@user-hm4yi7um9d Yeah, ok. Sure. The point is Fake Snake was giving respect to Liquid. Which contradicts Liquid's statements as an adult of BB always telling him he was inferior.
@@Amir1991H You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. I'll use bold to emphasize the key word. "He *always* told me I was inferior" Not to mention there's nothing to really suggest BB said anything of the kind. On the contrary. Even the real BB says to "treat them (the LET) like any other people". Meaning he expressed no special loathing towards Liquid or any of his clones, for that matter. TPP made Liquid the same kind of mess than PO did Grey Fox. But in that case, at least the game can be considered not canon.
@@Aivottaja no you weirdo. You literally just choked on your own words. Here. Try again. In capital letters. YOU CAN RESPECT SOMEONE AND STILL CALL OR SEE THEM AS INFERIOR.
I've been playing the game recently and I've been noticing the color blind effect from the cut cutscene where snake shoots eli by mistake all blood is greyed out and it slowly comes back in if you walk around, like in the hospital mission in the staircase or when I'm doing fob its like the game was setting it up the whole time subversively it was such a missed opportunity
Solidus did nothing wrong. Well, except for maybe the child soldiers...but they would have been picked up by warlords and forced to face each other rather than the real enemies Solidus turned them to.
@@Knifegash I'm not gonna state my opinions on solidus but keep in mind solidus himself was a child when he recruited those kids, I'm pretty sure he was 16 at the time? I guess it's a little similar to what liquid did in mgsv
@@Burning_the_toastI was talking about the movie direction… that’s like saying we can’t give James Cameron the credit for how avatar looks because other people animated it. The look and feel of those cinematics can totally be credited to Kojima. He has proven this across many games.
@@Burning_the_toast he directed those scenes, he's the director, it's not like he priased the modeling or the lighting which would be by different people,
@Ealais76 tbh I don't think we really need liquids back story fleshed out more , while it could be interesting Id rather a game that takes place as the boss and we see her journey as the true first "snake"
I remember smiling playing MGSV when I realised Liquid's first canonical appearance is fighting him on top of a boat which mirrors his final canonical appearance where you fight Liquid Ocelot on top of a boat as well.
OH MY GOD YES! The boat is ostensibly very much in dry dock, he's sitting on a piece of plastic furniture, and the same arm that will carry his meme forward is the one Venom dislocates.
@@xjustanotherpersonx7967 I can see what you mean, if you feel Liquid Ocelot was only pretending to be Liquid, but I still kind of prefer the interpretation that Ocelot’s biological father, a Medium, made him susceptible to spirituality/being overcome by the intense hatred Liquid represents; and Liquid’s powerful mental/spiritual hate is certainly canon.
I love the "That's right, don't blame yourself. Blame me!" like he's talking to a little brat. If he'd grown up with a father figure such as Venom, he could've become the saviour of mankind. Anyways that part should've stayed in the game.
Yeah I dont think o breaks the overall game NOT having it, and I now dont believe a huge portion was cut or that the story is hugely incomplete...but Venom and Eli were nice and important story beats I'd have liked more of, and as an epilogue that mission would have been cool
Great stuff as always. This channel is one of only a few that can analyze MGS without pulling hair-brained theories out of thin air between huffs of industrial adhesive.
The right arm reaching out gesture at 8:44 is meant to recall the 3rd Paz hallucination cutscene where Venom extends his arm after Paz while she falls to the bed.
Agreed. I also feel the same about Gray Fox too. He HAD to have known about what Big Boss and Venom Snake was up to during "Operation Intrude N313". I'd also like to see whatever beef Frank Jaeger possibly had with Revolver Ocelot as well. Ocelot too more than likely at least kept in contact with the real Big Boss and working devilment behind the scenes during the plots of the MSX Metal Gear games.
The most interesting part of this that stands out to me more than anything is the presence/proximity of Oceleot to Liquid during both his youth and adulthood. One would think that during some part of their reunion for the Shadow Moses scheme, they would have perhaps privately discussed the happenings of the phantom pain. That's a conversation I'd love to hear.
Liquid joined FOXHOUND as an adult, of which Ocelot was already a member, in addition to being a plant/spy for both Patriots and George Sears aka Solidus. I'm pretty sure Ocelot informed him of SOME of the Patriots schemes and goals in order to goad Liquid into taking action, so that Sears (Solidus) could use the Shadow Moses incident to force START III negotiations with Russia and other countries, once the world was shown that Metal Gear tech was capable of launching an Untraceable nuke from anywhere in the world in the hands of "Terrorists". This also led to every country developing their own Metal Gears from the Navys leaked Rex and Ray schematics, putting everyone on a more equal playing field with each other and The Patriots and leading to the War Economy, an attempt by the Patriots to maintain utter control over World War and who participates, with their chosen PMCs acting as cover for their societal monopoly. It really is interesting to think about how much Ocelot triggers in the entire plotline of all the games, simply by meeting back up with Liquid and telling him some of the Truth, while Kazuhira Miller meets Solid and continues to hide some of their shared history from him while working with him throughout his time in various black ops units and FOXHOUND.
Almost certainly they operated together before shadow Moses. MGS1 says liquid was in the Middle East during the gulf war, knowing ocelot I bet he was ducking around there too
@tboz8211 They're both in FOXHOUND by the early 2000s, nobody in FOXHOUND after Grey Fox went rogue and Solid Snake left operated by themselves under orders, so at the least Liquid and Ocelot worked together for a few years prior to Shadow Moses. Given what Ocelot says in Phantom Pain regarding Kaz and David (Solid), it seems like he either mentored Liquid or at least watched him from afar, not unlike Miller and Solid Snake.
I'm so fucking glad you keep finding knew depths to discuss with Metal Gear as a series and especially in regards to MGSV, every video gives me a new reason to love the game, and a new lense through which to see it and I really can't thank you enough.
absolutely amazing. I dont mind if you branch to other games but the fact you've had this much to say about mgsv im sure has made many many more people interested in this series. please keep going, love you boss.
Great work! And thanks again for keeping this conversation going. With no new titles in this series likely to emerge, this is now what it looks like for me to keep enjoying the story, characters, and games that I love.
Without that removed scene at the end, the canon ending makes zero sense. What we got did not show what happened to Eli/Liquid and Sahelanthropus at all. I hate that we did not get a complete game, yet people claim it is complete. LOL
I couldn't quite put my finger on why I had more and more sympathy for Liquid as the games went on. Just like all of the Snakes, his lack of control was what forced him to be two steps behind the Patriots. The same lack of control was what kept him raging forward. Quite the persona.
I had a similar experience with Ocelot to the point I'd argue Ocelot is the hero of the Metal Gear games, despite not being a protagonist and using less than heroic methods.
@@taepyeoon8245 Arguably yeah. I also think the player characters (Snake, Big Boss, Raiden and Venom) are unwittingly villains as in every game they are playable they are used by other villains to accomplish their goals
@@MamboCat84 Meanwhile Snake gets puppeted by every antagonist in every game he's in while Ocelot is being a chad hero in every hero he's in while maintaining his cover the whole time.
4:48 The line "I guess somebody wished upon a star, 'cause their savior turned up like stardust, straight outta the blue," is a reference to Sahelanthropus' appearance in Hellbound, from the stars as it were. Do you see the stars?
I'm just halfway through the video, and this is just brilliant! How could I never notice this before how many secret and details does this game contains, damn I'm so glad that you're back doing videos, Boss.
Cant stop playing this outstanding game. While the gameplay is already great, the story always gives me melancholic feelings (in a good way). Cool to see up to this day new videos about this masterpiece. 😎
Interesting concepts and explanations. After watching a whole channels worth of videos by now I totally agree with you that MGSV is particularly exceptional in exploring these topics
Awesome video, just amazing. MGSV sets up Liquid Snake so perfectly, except for the part where it doesn't because it's unfinished, but that's where you come in!
Were there plans to also include Solid possibly too? He would have also likely had long hair but somewhat darker. Some claim he cut and dyed his hair darker in MGS to different from Liquid (not accidentally be mistaken for him, though his American / non-South African accent would be a dead giveaway).
Inn the pre Shadow Moses briefing videos he has long hair and it looks shaded a bit lighter. In MGS he has short very dark hair but in MGS2 it's a lighter brown. In Metal gear and Metal gear 2 isnt it lighter haswell? I assumed it was to help the player differentiate
Jorin, your video essays are always full of insights and details that only make me love the Metal Gear series that much more, even though it has always been my favourite video game saga ever since I played MGS for the first time all those years ago. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I really liked Kiefer Sutherland portrayal of snake in this game. I'm not saying Hayter wasn't great, so relax. I just think Sutherland did a really good job and made it memorable.
Cool video, as always. One thing that always struck my mind is how Sahelanthropus looks advanced if compared to, for example, Metal Gear Rex. It's like if it was chronologically created between MGS1 and MGS2, thus effing up the timeline totally.
Maybe it was. DD had portals too, lol. I mean eventually the Diamond Dogs base gets raided and they are uprooted right? So lost tech imho head canon, lol
Well I always took it as sehalanthroous was totally impractical and only worked because of mantis powers it's kind of like how visions of sci-fi tech existed in the 50s but things like star trek tech werent practical and didn't have the power needed to make things work, mantis is the magic "power source" for an otherwise non workable design.
With the announcement of the snake eater remake, I’ve become obsessed all over again with the mgs saga. I’m hoping that Konami don’t mess this remake up. I’m not convinced they won’t but one can hope. Even if they do mess it up we’ll always have the original vision of snake eater. A brilliant game.
Mantis is supposed to have some sort of visual cue to identify who's controlling him right? Like he has the horn for Venom, the Beret for Eli, the fire for Volgin, etc.. Why doesn't he have some visual cue for the few seconds he's controlled by Shabani? Someone should mod the game so he does. I propose that for that cutscene alone he appears with an afro, just like Shabani has. For lore purposes of course.
I will die on the hill that the possession we see on the Tanker and perhaps even on Arsenal Gear WAS genuine. Otherwise, why would Ocelot replace the grafted arm with a prosthetic between 2 and 4? He figured the guise of Liquid could actually be used to his advantage, but only if Ocelot had control, thus he ditched the arm and switched to hypnotherapy.
@@homelessgenie3366 If you REALLY knew your lore you'd know that both explanations are true, and that your cynical take on Kojima seems to come from a place of bad faith. I am not speaking theory. The Tanker possession is backed up by OFFICIAL sources, and there is no evidence to suggest that specifically was ever retconned, whereas there IS evidence that the arm was replaced post 2 and it IS confirmed that he used hypnotherapy to maintain the guise.
@@2yoyoyo1Unplugged OFFICIAL sources also say The Patriots, nearly all-knowing AI, were foiled because they somehow couldn't realize that the corpse of Big Boss magically changed which of its eyes were damaged - because the corpse was actually Solidus. I love Kojima, but if it wasn't apparent with 2 and then Snake Eater, he was over and done with the series and kept being forced to work on it. Any creative type will flounder when having their hand forced in their own creation. There's several plot points in 4 that clearly are the last shrug of an author who wants to move on, and what better way than to take away the mystery of, essentially, everything, so that Konami and fans stop asking for more. There's a reason he wanted as little to do with MGSV as possible.
I remember first playing this and hating that they changed snakes voice because i was like he doesn't even sound like snake. Then by the end i realized that it wasn't even the snake or big boss i thought i was the whole time and it made so much sense haha. Especially since they kept everyone else's voice actor the same or at least something that sounded like their younger version.
This is genuinely brilliant. Even if there are some things that might be pure speculation it's a fantastic analysis of the messy mountain of references Kojima dumps on us. Well done.
Oh my goodness I thought I finished this game! Apparently not, I remember sneaking into the castle at the end and the metal gear coming back to mother base then I thought it was game over and it was just the multiplayer mode left 😅 whole bunch of cutscenes I’ve never seen, thanks, pretty much watched all your MGS vids! Amazing.
There's a bunch of cut content cos MGSV was rushed and only about 70% finished when it got released, also why Kojima got mad and left. Konami were too money hungry.
I think everyone forgets, Ocelot faked hypnosis in MGS2 so why wouldn’t he here? I feel like MGSV was the first game to omit “the truth” about Ocelot’s role in post credits. I’d also love to see a game that shows more about Liquid Snake and Ocelot. Especially this union of two characters-how and why Ocelot chose to fake possession. Liquids SAS and FOXHOUND days are still widely a mystery.
Just being a fan but, What if Kojima got the rights to MGS & made a Metal Gear 1&2 Remake, connecting all the threads from V-1? I would love to see how the loose story threads from V connect w all those Codec calls in Shadow Moses
I have a question for you. In order to make these analysis, what did you study and for how long? I'm talking about references from philosophy, politics, books, etc. I wish to be able to make this type of analysis for myself with other types of media. But I have no idea where to start. Maybe sharing your creative process is not something you wish to do, but it would be highly appreciated. Amazing video btw 👍🏻
Sometimes I think about how I really hope Kojima gets to watch some of your videos. Probably be blowing his mind with the ideas and analysis you're extracting from his games 😂
I thought Eli was a young Raiden when he was a child soldier under Solidus. I still haven't gotten 100% on the title screen where he's sitting on the helicopter
The fact that MGS:V was never actually finished bothers me to no end. With all the clues left in the code on what was the second half of the game, and yet with no cohesive narrative to that second half, it really ruins what is otherwise a pleasant enough game, if by far the least polished game in the series. Imagine V with the level of detail and care and polish of 4 or 3, let alone 2.... It truly could have been the best MGS ever made.
that shadow that you call skull face's hat definitely is not his hat but Eli's chin and bottom lip and that has to be one of the biggest stretches i've ever seen anyone make
@Logan Boyd I'm happy to see this series still has a pulse! Here's hoping Konami can maintain a better reputation despite the past. Metal Gear has so much unexplored potential. Here's hoping for an excellent Metal Gear/Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake remake.
@@abel8831 and here's hoping for a Metal Gear Rising Revengeance sequel and for a metal gear and Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake remakes to have phenomenal gameplay but also expanded dialogue from the original
I think I finally get why your channel stands out above other mgs theory channels. Other channels like to tell you what to think via the information they personally interpret, usually info only found in mgs. However while you do some of that the real world information serves to inform the view of the series context, much of which isn't shown or touched on in-game. A lesser creater doing this will do so with the intention of misleading or going off topic from the subject of the story itself. However you use the real world information to set the correct context for which the game should be viewed. Whether it be the times when the game was made or the times the game tried to portray. In this sense you aren't giving a personal interpretation but rather something close to Kojima's interpretation. Not that every piece of info you relate is fact or canon to metal gear but rather it's information and inspirations that Kojima atleast to some extent was aware of that he may or may not have unconsciously drawn on. By giving so much information you allow the viewer to ponder what Kojima meant more so than what the game means. I find that fascinating
I hope & pray that in this new phase of MGS Remakes that the main cannon story is retconned & Liquid isn’t killed off in MGS1 & that the rest of the series is the tales of an everlasting duel between Liquid & Solid.
Nah, we need to stop pretending that Kojima actually has any clue how to write coherent stories. These things are all over the place and he tried to hide his incompetent storytelling with purposely convoluted and overly complex plot threads. It's all bullshit. Gameplay is his strength, all the games are mostly fun, and they do push game design in positive directions.
I'd say I halfway agree. I like a lot of his story ideas and really appreciate his philosophical approach....but along with his games being so widely revered is the idea that he is a perfect storyteller which isnt true lol
Are we ever going to get a video explaining your theory about what the iDroid "really is"? I don't remember what video you initially mentioned it in but it's been nagging at my mind ever since
I really like your videos but always am left with this sort of wanting when you end it and I finally figured out what it is. You cover everything that needs to be covered but you rarely go as in depth as I want.
this was very well done liquid & solidus are 2 characters i would love some expansion on. even if its not a game centered around them i’ll settle for graphic novels or some dope 20min cutscenes the creators are good for lol
You said whiteness however Scottish people were punished by the English if they spoke Gaelic instead of English. Whiteness and Angloness are different. A white Russian isn't the same as a white Frenchman who isn't the same as a white Irishman.
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
Kojima really regretted killing him in mgs1 so much to the extend he had to bring him back with ocelot self hypnosis.
"I live through this arm"
Wtf was bro smoking??
@@mist12345678910 The living through the arm thing is real though. When Liquid takes over Ocelot in MGS2 that's actually happening in the lore of the game. Ocelot removed liquids arm from his body and replaced it with a robotic arm for that very reason. Because of the possessions though, it gave him the IDEA of self-hypnosis as a convenient cover, using double think in order to covertly realize the will of the Boss by pulling the wool over Snake's eyes by occluding his true goal.
People forget that Metal Gear as a series is, and always has been, a "magical realist" setting. Magical realism is a literary genre defined by oxford as "stories that have, typically, a strong narrative drive, in which the recognizably realistic mingles with the unexpected and the inexplicable, and in which elements of dream, fairy story, or mythology combine with the everyday, often in a mosaic or kaleidoscopic pattern of refraction and recurrence."
Some other great examples of Magic Realist narrative are the novels "Midnight's Children" by Salamon Rushdie, "Love in the Time of Cholera" by Grabiel Garcia Marqeuz, and the novellas "The Trial" and "The Metamorphosis" by German novelist Franz Kafka.
he probably thought metal gear wouldnt get any sequels so he just killed off liquid
Could just gone the clone route like he did with big boss
@mist12345678910 yeah but he replaced his missing hand with liquid's
Big Boss (as far as Liquid knew) to Liquid: "You're a hell of a soldier"
Liquid in Twin Snakes: "He always told me I was inferior!"
Being a soldier means being a follower. The respect that big boss wanted for them was freedom. The American meme is the war economy, which freedom cannot exist within. Outer heaven is an anarchist state where people that can defend themselves are free to. It's the reason why Big Boss never stopped being a dog of war with them. Until there is no more power, no more true war, everyone is a soldier, a dog of war.
@@user-hm4yi7um9d Yeah, ok. Sure. The point is Fake Snake was giving respect to Liquid. Which contradicts Liquid's statements as an adult of BB always telling him he was inferior.
@Aivottaja you ok guy? You can give someone respect and still say they are inferior .
@@Amir1991H You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. I'll use bold to emphasize the key word.
"He *always* told me I was inferior"
Not to mention there's nothing to really suggest BB said anything of the kind. On the contrary. Even the real BB says to "treat them (the LET) like any other people". Meaning he expressed no special loathing towards Liquid or any of his clones, for that matter.
TPP made Liquid the same kind of mess than PO did Grey Fox. But in that case, at least the game can be considered not canon.
@@Aivottaja no you weirdo. You literally just choked on your own words. Here. Try again. In capital letters. YOU CAN RESPECT SOMEONE AND STILL CALL OR SEE THEM AS INFERIOR.
Eli and Psycho mantis act as part of Skullfaces legacy
And when you kill pschyco mantis eli is calling him worthless while disguised as your mentor mcdonalds.
@denifnaf5874 Liquid was disguised as Kazuhira Miller, aka Master Miller.
I've been playing the game recently and I've been noticing the color blind effect from the cut cutscene where snake shoots eli by mistake all blood is greyed out and it slowly comes back in if you walk around, like in the hospital mission in the staircase or when I'm doing fob its like the game was setting it up the whole time subversively it was such a missed opportunity
It happens in gameplay too you just gotta get fucked up
@@MrThecoolman yeah iirc it's everytime you take a serious injury that you have to heal, right?
@Astra Inclinant Cut-content isn't exclusive to MGSV..............
That also happens if you get injured and have to use the spray
@@GutsTheBeastliterally who said it was?
One of the things I really liked about the MGS games is that if you look at the stories differently, we definitely play as the bad guys.
Solidus did nothing wrong. Well, except for maybe the child soldiers...but they would have been picked up by warlords and forced to face each other rather than the real enemies Solidus turned them to.
@@Knifegash I'm not gonna state my opinions on solidus but keep in mind solidus himself was a child when he recruited those kids, I'm pretty sure he was 16 at the time? I guess it's a little similar to what liquid did in mgsv
@@aqowamancows8213 yeah he was more of a child commander
@@aqowamancows8213I'm pretty sure Solidus was a biological adult at 16, due to accelerated aging
It's all about 100 BILLION DOLLARS!
The camera direction in that Eli cutscene is absolutely phenomenal. Kojima is such a leg up on other developers with his cinematics.
Kojima wasnt the only person who worked on the game your giving too much credit to one guy
@@Burning_the_toastI was talking about the movie direction… that’s like saying we can’t give James Cameron the credit for how avatar looks because other people animated it. The look and feel of those cinematics can totally be credited to Kojima. He has proven this across many games.
@@brentwylie5558 I'd put my money that this was more work by Atsushi Tsugaruya than Kojima.
@@Burning_the_toast he directed those scenes, he's the director, it's not like he priased the modeling or the lighting which would be by different people,
Liquid snake needs his own game
There's a huge gap between mgsv and mgs1
briefing in mgs1 says that LS was in Iraq during the gulf war
@@garretmcknight8358thats actually a cover up, he was a sleeper spy but got arrested. Dont remember where.
yeah crazy idea but maybe that huge gap can be filled by... Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2. you know, the games that take place directly after MGSV?
@@alicevioleta3184that tell’s solid’s story though, not liquids
@Ealais76 tbh I don't think we really need liquids back story fleshed out more
, while it could be interesting Id rather a game that takes place as the boss and we see her journey as the true first "snake"
The meeting with Eli in Masa Village is a callback(forward) to Snakes first meeting with Raiden in SOL.
Sol?
@@peterbakai5614 sons of liberty
I remember smiling playing MGSV when I realised Liquid's first canonical appearance is fighting him on top of a boat which mirrors his final canonical appearance where you fight Liquid Ocelot on top of a boat as well.
OH MY GOD YES! The boat is ostensibly very much in dry dock, he's sitting on a piece of plastic furniture, and the same arm that will carry his meme forward is the one Venom dislocates.
@@frankcastlefanThe arm didn't play any part
@@frankcastlefankojima you mad bastard. That’s why we love this guy
@@xjustanotherpersonx7967 I can see what you mean, if you feel Liquid Ocelot was only pretending to be Liquid, but I still kind of prefer the interpretation that Ocelot’s biological father, a Medium, made him susceptible to spirituality/being overcome by the intense hatred Liquid represents; and Liquid’s powerful mental/spiritual hate is certainly canon.
I love the "That's right, don't blame yourself. Blame me!" like he's talking to a little brat. If he'd grown up with a father figure such as Venom, he could've become the saviour of mankind. Anyways that part should've stayed in the game.
Yeah I dont think o breaks the overall game NOT having it, and I now dont believe a huge portion was cut or that the story is hugely incomplete...but Venom and Eli were nice and important story beats I'd have liked more of, and as an epilogue that mission would have been cool
Ahab is the worst survivor ever
Great stuff as always. This channel is one of only a few that can analyze MGS without pulling hair-brained theories out of thin air between huffs of industrial adhesive.
Afterlife Games moment
That's a very specific but cool metaphor
@Four Truths yeah I know who he was talking about instantly
Half the explanations Jordin here gives on these games, in these videos, are also massively hair-brained. It’s fun stuff. We’re having FUN.
Foreal tho
The right arm reaching out gesture at 8:44 is meant to recall the 3rd Paz hallucination cutscene where Venom extends his arm after Paz while she falls to the bed.
Liquid got killed by Fox Die because Psycho Mantis was killed prior. Couldnt protect him the same!
That's one hell of a wormhole you just openedd. Love it tho 👌
@@phantomsnake7910 very possible. Fun to think about!
Liquid deserves his own game
I want one about Solidus' involvement in Libya, or just about him in general.
Agreed. I also feel the same about Gray Fox too. He HAD to have known about what Big Boss and Venom Snake was up to during "Operation Intrude N313". I'd also like to see whatever beef Frank Jaeger possibly had with Revolver Ocelot as well. Ocelot too more than likely at least kept in contact with the real Big Boss and working devilment behind the scenes during the plots of the MSX Metal Gear games.
That might revive the series.
I would love this, but don't want Konami to get any ideas
I’m really praying that Konami and Kojima have something sneaky in the works…..
The most interesting part of this that stands out to me more than anything is the presence/proximity of Oceleot to Liquid during both his youth and adulthood. One would think that during some part of their reunion for the Shadow Moses scheme, they would have perhaps privately discussed the happenings of the phantom pain. That's a conversation I'd love to hear.
Liquid joined FOXHOUND as an adult, of which Ocelot was already a member, in addition to being a plant/spy for both Patriots and George Sears aka Solidus.
I'm pretty sure Ocelot informed him of SOME of the Patriots schemes and goals in order to goad Liquid into taking action, so that Sears (Solidus) could use the Shadow Moses incident to force START III negotiations with Russia and other countries, once the world was shown that Metal Gear tech was capable of launching an Untraceable nuke from anywhere in the world in the hands of "Terrorists".
This also led to every country developing their own Metal Gears from the Navys leaked Rex and Ray schematics, putting everyone on a more equal playing field with each other and The Patriots and leading to the War Economy, an attempt by the Patriots to maintain utter control over World War and who participates, with their chosen PMCs acting as cover for their societal monopoly.
It really is interesting to think about how much Ocelot triggers in the entire plotline of all the games, simply by meeting back up with Liquid and telling him some of the Truth, while Kazuhira Miller meets Solid and continues to hide some of their shared history from him while working with him throughout his time in various black ops units and FOXHOUND.
Almost certainly they operated together before shadow Moses. MGS1 says liquid was in the Middle East during the gulf war, knowing ocelot I bet he was ducking around there too
@tboz8211 They're both in FOXHOUND by the early 2000s, nobody in FOXHOUND after Grey Fox went rogue and Solid Snake left operated by themselves under orders, so at the least Liquid and Ocelot worked together for a few years prior to Shadow Moses.
Given what Ocelot says in Phantom Pain regarding Kaz and David (Solid), it seems like he either mentored Liquid or at least watched him from afar, not unlike Miller and Solid Snake.
@@PunishedBrak I’d do unspeakable things to play as Liquid Snake in the Middle East in the 90s w Ocelot as his mentor, lol
Me to Skullface, "You mad bro?"
I'm so fucking glad you keep finding knew depths to discuss with Metal Gear as a series and especially in regards to MGSV, every video gives me a new reason to love the game, and a new lense through which to see it and I really can't thank you enough.
Never heard Myler talk about stardust in the audio communication until now, stardust as Ziggy Stardust…aka David Bowie…The Man Who Sold The World
absolutely amazing. I dont mind if you branch to other games but the fact you've had this much to say about mgsv im sure has made many many more people interested in this series. please keep going, love you boss.
Skull Face does say hes always in the shadows watching snake... now i feel it applies to even the games AFTER TPP
Great work! And thanks again for keeping this conversation going. With no new titles in this series likely to emerge, this is now what it looks like for me to keep enjoying the story, characters, and games that I love.
Liquid is probably one of my favorite MG characters along with Ocelot.
In mgs 1 all soldiers were genetic modified soldiers
Without that removed scene at the end, the canon ending makes zero sense. What we got did not show what happened to Eli/Liquid and Sahelanthropus at all. I hate that we did not get a complete game, yet people claim it is complete. LOL
I couldn't quite put my finger on why I had more and more sympathy for Liquid as the games went on.
Just like all of the Snakes, his lack of control was what forced him to be two steps behind the Patriots. The same lack of control was what kept him raging forward. Quite the persona.
I had a similar experience with Ocelot to the point I'd argue Ocelot is the hero of the Metal Gear games, despite not being a protagonist and using less than heroic methods.
@@PlebNC So an antihero?
@@taepyeoon8245 Arguably yeah. I also think the player characters (Snake, Big Boss, Raiden and Venom) are unwittingly villains as in every game they are playable they are used by other villains to accomplish their goals
@PlebNC "There is no such thing as an absolute enemy. Human beings can only be enemies in relative terms." :p
@@MamboCat84 Meanwhile Snake gets puppeted by every antagonist in every game he's in while Ocelot is being a chad hero in every hero he's in while maintaining his cover the whole time.
4:48 The line "I guess somebody wished upon a star, 'cause their savior turned up like stardust, straight outta the blue," is a reference to Sahelanthropus' appearance in Hellbound, from the stars as it were. Do you see the stars?
I'm just halfway through the video, and this is just brilliant! How could I never notice this before
how many secret and details does this game contains, damn
I'm so glad that you're back doing videos, Boss.
Cant stop playing this outstanding game. While the gameplay is already great, the story always gives me melancholic feelings (in a good way). Cool to see up to this day new videos about this masterpiece. 😎
Interesting concepts and explanations. After watching a whole channels worth of videos by now I totally agree with you that MGSV is particularly exceptional in exploring these topics
Awesome video, just amazing. MGSV sets up Liquid Snake so perfectly, except for the part where it doesn't because it's unfinished, but that's where you come in!
it's always a good day when there's a futurasound prod video
Were there plans to also include Solid possibly too? He would have also likely had long hair but somewhat darker. Some claim he cut and dyed his hair darker in MGS to different from Liquid (not accidentally be mistaken for him, though his American / non-South African accent would be a dead giveaway).
That's what I would like to see is where and what was Solid doing at this time period, no way he escaped a child soldier adventure
Inn the pre Shadow Moses briefing videos he has long hair and it looks shaded a bit lighter. In MGS he has short very dark hair but in MGS2 it's a lighter brown.
In Metal gear and Metal gear 2 isnt it lighter haswell?
I assumed it was to help the player differentiate
Jorin, your video essays are always full of insights and details that only make me love the Metal Gear series that much more, even though it has always been my favourite video game saga ever since I played MGS for the first time all those years ago. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I really liked Kiefer Sutherland portrayal of snake in this game. I'm not saying Hayter wasn't great, so relax. I just think Sutherland did a really good job and made it memorable.
Cool video, as always. One thing that always struck my mind is how Sahelanthropus looks advanced if compared to, for example, Metal Gear Rex. It's like if it was chronologically created between MGS1 and MGS2, thus effing up the timeline totally.
Maybe it was. DD had portals too, lol. I mean eventually the Diamond Dogs base gets raided and they are uprooted right? So lost tech imho head canon, lol
Well I always took it as sehalanthroous was totally impractical and only worked because of mantis powers it's kind of like how visions of sci-fi tech existed in the 50s but things like star trek tech werent practical and didn't have the power needed to make things work, mantis is the magic "power source" for an otherwise non workable design.
Seeing this game again breaks my heart on how great it couldve turned out....
With the announcement of the snake eater remake, I’ve become obsessed all over again with the mgs saga.
I’m hoping that Konami don’t mess this remake up. I’m not convinced they won’t but one can hope.
Even if they do mess it up we’ll always have the original vision of snake eater. A brilliant game.
First!! I’m glad you are releasing more videos, Jorin! I hope you’re doing well.
So happy to see a new video today!
Mantis is supposed to have some sort of visual cue to identify who's controlling him right? Like he has the horn for Venom, the Beret for Eli, the fire for Volgin, etc.. Why doesn't he have some visual cue for the few seconds he's controlled by Shabani? Someone should mod the game so he does. I propose that for that cutscene alone he appears with an afro, just like Shabani has. For lore purposes of course.
maybe the phantom pain was the friends we made along the way
I will die on the hill that the possession we see on the Tanker and perhaps even on Arsenal Gear WAS genuine. Otherwise, why would Ocelot replace the grafted arm with a prosthetic between 2 and 4? He figured the guise of Liquid could actually be used to his advantage, but only if Ocelot had control, thus he ditched the arm and switched to hypnotherapy.
I agree it was genuine until Kojima decided hypnotherapy was more convenient.
@@homelessgenie3366 If you REALLY knew your lore you'd know that both explanations are true, and that your cynical take on Kojima seems to come from a place of bad faith. I am not speaking theory. The Tanker possession is backed up by OFFICIAL sources, and there is no evidence to suggest that specifically was ever retconned, whereas there IS evidence that the arm was replaced post 2 and it IS confirmed that he used hypnotherapy to maintain the guise.
@@2yoyoyo1Unplugged OFFICIAL sources also say The Patriots, nearly all-knowing AI, were foiled because they somehow couldn't realize that the corpse of Big Boss magically changed which of its eyes were damaged - because the corpse was actually Solidus.
I love Kojima, but if it wasn't apparent with 2 and then Snake Eater, he was over and done with the series and kept being forced to work on it. Any creative type will flounder when having their hand forced in their own creation.
There's several plot points in 4 that clearly are the last shrug of an author who wants to move on, and what better way than to take away the mystery of, essentially, everything, so that Konami and fans stop asking for more.
There's a reason he wanted as little to do with MGSV as possible.
I remember first playing this and hating that they changed snakes voice because i was like he doesn't even sound like snake. Then by the end i realized that it wasn't even the snake or big boss i thought i was the whole time and it made so much sense haha. Especially since they kept everyone else's voice actor the same or at least something that sounded like their younger version.
Are you forgetting that the real Big Boss was also voiced by Keifer Sutherland in Ground Zeroes and the end of TPP?
The man who made me finally complete 5 and then re-play 1, 2, and 3. Welcome back, Boss.
You kept us waiting, Boss.
Our raw materials are vintage, brother 💪
Glad to see you back boss, make us 🙌 👏 proud as you always do!
This is genuinely brilliant. Even if there are some things that might be pure speculation it's a fantastic analysis of the messy mountain of references Kojima dumps on us. Well done.
Oh my goodness I thought I finished this game! Apparently not, I remember sneaking into the castle at the end and the metal gear coming back to mother base then I thought it was game over and it was just the multiplayer mode left 😅 whole bunch of cutscenes I’ve never seen, thanks, pretty much watched all your MGS vids! Amazing.
There's a bunch of cut content cos MGSV was rushed and only about 70% finished when it got released, also why Kojima got mad and left. Konami were too money hungry.
I played it on steam on pc, maybe the console versions had more content? I wonder if mods might’ve messed up my game experience?
@@herbdelarge Kojima blew threw MGSV's budget on a lot of unnecessary additions, and that's why Konami forced him to release it early.
Thank you, excellent timing with this video as I just rewatched your other skullface videos.
Bravo, great work
Glad to have you back Boss.
Liquid Deserves his own game:
Metal Gear Liquid
I think everyone forgets, Ocelot faked hypnosis in MGS2 so why wouldn’t he here? I feel like MGSV was the first game to omit “the truth” about Ocelot’s role in post credits. I’d also love to see a game that shows more about Liquid Snake and Ocelot. Especially this union of two characters-how and why Ocelot chose to fake possession. Liquids SAS and FOXHOUND days are still widely a mystery.
Just being a fan but,
What if Kojima got the rights to MGS & made a Metal Gear 1&2 Remake, connecting all the threads from V-1? I would love to see how the loose story threads from V connect w all those Codec calls in Shadow Moses
We should get a liquid game that takes place during the time he was trained by the boss
Why was his mouth not moving while he was talking??? Is that how the game is???
probably left unfinished very early in development and never completed fully.
That cutscene is not normally accessible. It was datamined.
That cutscene is unfinished.
A liquid snake game becoming a rising member of Foxhound would be cool, i'd also have loved a Gray Fox game
If there's something I don't like about mgsv is that psycho mantis kid that's basically a god of revenge
I mean it's not that far of a stretch I mean Mantis speaks of his overpowered younger years back in MGS
@@jamessmall8096 Yeah but he always shows up at the most convenient moments possible
Love the NIN lyrics at the beginning👍
MGS is my favorite video game series of all the time not because of the amazing gameplay but from the characters the story it’s so awesome.
That final mission really should have been included. It’s honestly so good!
I'm late to all of your work but I am surely amazed with everything I've seen so far and I hope you keep up the great stuff!
I have a question for you. In order to make these analysis, what did you study and for how long? I'm talking about references from philosophy, politics, books, etc. I wish to be able to make this type of analysis for myself with other types of media. But I have no idea where to start. Maybe sharing your creative process is not something you wish to do, but it would be highly appreciated. Amazing video btw 👍🏻
Funny a reference from NIN that's referencing Fight Club.
Great work as always. Thank you.
This is something I’ve been uneducated about for a long time, excited to gain some understanding
Also...
All these children have experienced massive emotional and physical trauma
No wonder Mantis is nuts and Liquid is so spiteful
Such a lust for video essays! WHOOOOO?!
I didn't knew this scene existed. Poor Liquid 😢 he was sweet in his own way, his ideals were shaped by trauma
Sometimes I think about how I really hope Kojima gets to watch some of your videos. Probably be blowing his mind with the ideas and analysis you're extracting from his games 😂
Awesome and more to come until next time Boss
thanks for another banger video dude! I check every morning for an upload!
I thought Eli was a young Raiden when he was a child soldier under Solidus. I still haven't gotten 100% on the title screen where he's sitting on the helicopter
Been waiting
it's impresive how many things aren't discovered, even tho it's been 8 years since the game launched lol
The fact that MGS:V was never actually finished bothers me to no end. With all the clues left in the code on what was the second half of the game, and yet with no cohesive narrative to that second half, it really ruins what is otherwise a pleasant enough game, if by far the least polished game in the series. Imagine V with the level of detail and care and polish of 4 or 3, let alone 2.... It truly could have been the best MGS ever made.
Yeah - it makes me unhappy when playing sometimes / empty areas - needed more fluff - more interior buildings would have been dope
New Jorin Lee Futurasound Productions out!!🎉🎉
we missed you Jorin!
that shadow that you call skull face's hat definitely is not his hat but Eli's chin and bottom lip and that has to be one of the biggest stretches i've ever seen anyone make
A game or several games between MGS5 and MGX is need over any Raiden sequal or The Boss during WW2
This game series will never be dead to me. There's so many good details everywhere, I love it.
So how you feeling after that PlayStation showcase
@Logan Boyd I'm happy to see this series still has a pulse! Here's hoping Konami can maintain a better reputation despite the past. Metal Gear has so much unexplored potential. Here's hoping for an excellent Metal Gear/Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake remake.
@@abel8831 and here's hoping for a Metal Gear Rising Revengeance sequel and for a metal gear and Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake remakes to have phenomenal gameplay but also expanded dialogue from the original
I think I finally get why your channel stands out above other mgs theory channels. Other channels like to tell you what to think via the information they personally interpret, usually info only found in mgs. However while you do some of that the real world information serves to inform the view of the series context, much of which isn't shown or touched on in-game. A lesser creater doing this will do so with the intention of misleading or going off topic from the subject of the story itself. However you use the real world information to set the correct context for which the game should be viewed. Whether it be the times when the game was made or the times the game tried to portray. In this sense you aren't giving a personal interpretation but rather something close to Kojima's interpretation. Not that every piece of info you relate is fact or canon to metal gear but rather it's information and inspirations that Kojima atleast to some extent was aware of that he may or may not have unconsciously drawn on. By giving so much information you allow the viewer to ponder what Kojima meant more so than what the game means. I find that fascinating
Great work. I love watching your metal gear analysis videos.
So what you're saying is Skullface is the good guy.
Bro. That NIN song is awesome, nice taste, and eggcellent video!
Kept us waiting, huh?
Hell yea, already watching.
“Electric virtual essay” lmao, what?
I hope & pray that in this new phase of MGS Remakes that the main cannon story is retconned & Liquid isn’t killed off in MGS1 & that the rest of the series is the tales of an everlasting duel between Liquid & Solid.
Glad you're back. You keep posting and I'll keep watching, BROTHER.
Nah, we need to stop pretending that Kojima actually has any clue how to write coherent stories. These things are all over the place and he tried to hide his incompetent storytelling with purposely convoluted and overly complex plot threads. It's all bullshit.
Gameplay is his strength, all the games are mostly fun, and they do push game design in positive directions.
I'd say I halfway agree. I like a lot of his story ideas and really appreciate his philosophical approach....but along with his games being so widely revered is the idea that he is a perfect storyteller which isnt true lol
Are we ever going to get a video explaining your theory about what the iDroid "really is"? I don't remember what video you initially mentioned it in but it's been nagging at my mind ever since
I really like your videos but always am left with this sort of wanting when you end it and I finally figured out what it is. You cover everything that needs to be covered but you rarely go as in depth as I want.
We want, we need more Boss!
this was very well done
liquid & solidus are 2 characters i would love some expansion on. even if its not a game centered around them i’ll settle for graphic novels or some dope 20min cutscenes the creators are good for lol
Isn't that "copy of a copy" quote from fight club? And didn't that come out in like 1999?
Yes thank you jorin for another perfect video 👍😎🤙🏻
Nebrija did say that language was the instrument of empire
To simply put it, you sir are amazing at what you do!!!
You said whiteness however Scottish people were punished by the English if they spoke Gaelic instead of English. Whiteness and Angloness are different. A white Russian isn't the same as a white Frenchman who isn't the same as a white Irishman.
Well said, Laddy.
welcome back.. Boss