You are an excellent ball striker. I think for most people the desire to shorten has to do with control for misfits rather than straight up distance. So maybe the test is really to get some mid handicappers and apply similar test plan.
Years ago, when my body was much better than it is today and I was much younger, I experimented with driver lengths from 48 down to 42. This was a fun bit of tinkering. I have always been a club fitter and learned in my teens from an old man I used to work for just to get experience and learn. It was never my full-time job but I did attend Matby's course and learned a great deal. I wanted to have custom clubs easily for myself and I made some side money to pay for my golf. Anyway, I found the 48" shaft difficult to manipulate. For me, dispersion was the least in the shorter ranges. Today, at 65, I play essentially a 3W mini-driver at 42", 14 degrees loft and it is a senior shaft playing at R -. A big drive for me is 220. My game is devolving into a dink old man game. My woods go all the way down to 11W. The rest is 7i-PW, and 52, 56, 60, 68 wedges. I have put a lot of people into a shorter driver length over the years and the majority it has helped them find the fairways more easily. These are all mid to high handicap folks. Great video. Shafts really are critical for anyone's game. Most people I encounter who need help have too stiff of a shaft. Flex and length are key.
the reason I choked up on my driver shaft by an inch was to control the club face better. I'm 6'1 and the 45.5 never felt super comfortable for me. I started by choking up on the grip then I made the leap to get a completely new shaft from GolfWorks that's a flex down in the R flex, but cut a full inch to 44.5 so that it basically plays like a stiff. Added some weight to my clubhead and the difference in control is great. I've never felt more comfortable with my driver and I'm a 12 HCP. I think for anyone who's a lower handicap especially those approaching scratch you should be having a full set of fitted clubs anyway, but for someone like me in the teens HCP-wise then this really helped me keep that driver straight and the amount of times I now hit the sweet spot has gone up by about 30% according to the Trackman.
I cut my current driver shaft down by I think half an inch. At first, it didn't feel much better and my driving didn't improve. I then watched a video from TxG and Ian Fraser said that if you reduce shaft length, you have to add a bit of headweight to maintain swing weight. I think it was something like 2g per half inch. When I added the headweight, my driving was vastly improved.
You could also try a lighter grip which will gain you roughly 2-3 swingweight points without needing to add more tape to the head. I started with cutting 1/2" off and adding 2-3g at the head, got good results which made me go a step further and cut another 1/2" but this time changed my standard 45g tour velvet to a super light 25g grip (available from golf pride). I'm still amazed how easy it feels to hit centre strike with a square clubface now, giving me a lot more confidence to swing hard on the teebox.
Most of us average golfer don’t necessarily need tons of distance, we need consistency, accuracy, forgiveness, a pleasing sound, value! Choking up does help, so does the proper ball! What about counter weighting in the handle? Thanks
Quality content per usual! Love the incite less the marketing blah blah from others. Really was interesting to see strike stats so similiar across lengths. Your comfort seemed best on shorter, even though you mashed many of the 46, lol.
Thanks Bill! Yeah my missus regardless of shaft length will always be big unfortunately 😭😂 but yeah generally I would agree. I tend to play around the 45 👌
I truly appreciate the "idea" of this test. But to be completely fair, you would need some time "between" each length adjustment to resynchronize your setup and delivery for the new feel of the club. Then you could establish consistency as the length and other factors are changing.
I’d say to be fair the swing weight needs to be adjusted to the same on each length driver test. It sort of nullifies the idea that the shorter shaft will result in more accuracy with the big change in swing weight each time. Keep up the great content. 😊
Thanks! Well that would massively depend on the player. The vast majority of players I see would be worse if they added weight back to the head. So need to be careful on that one id say.
From my personal experience going 45.5 to 44.5 moved my strike to the toe and increased left miss. But by changing shafts to stiffer tipped shaft and cutting down to 45 I not only gain distance, height and accuracy.
Time for me to hit the used Callaway website to find a 44" reg flex to replace my stock stiff shaft. I don’t bring the thunder like i used to!😂 Was doing a fitting at my club recently and had to ask the guy to stop calling out my carry distances out loud. I know I'm a short hitter i don’t need everyone else to hear...😊
I used to use a 47 inch driver before the USGA amateurs decided to ti be control freaks. It took a lot moire practice to hit consistently straight than the 46 inch driver. I didn't hit it much farther, but I swung less vertically which protected my back. I didn't have to contort my swing at all to hit the ball straight. a longer shaft will tend to promote a draw or hook because it makes the swing come slightly more from the inside For tall people that can be extremely helpful to stop chopping at the ball.
For me, I find the change in lie angle makes a big difference on low loft clubs, with longer shaft lifting the toe and causing more left misses. Shorter shaft lowers toe and more right misses. I think you compensate extremely well for variations in club. Great video and I think the most important take away for me is that people swinging 44.5 are probably not giving up much swing speed and likely will benefit much more than you did on finding the sweet spot. Thanks for doing this!
Great video and test and explanation, I've just shortened my driver and it feels like i have so much more control especially for someone who slices occasionally, and the driver feels so much lighter that i feel like i can generate more speed which is handy being in the slower swing speed bracket 👍
Recently picked up a mini driver with 43.75 shaft and lost a bit of distance in comparative shots in the fairway. However, getting more shots IN the fairway, so when compared to the misses with my regular driver that include OB shots, shots in the woods or topped 150 yards - I’m way ahead in distance gained.
No worries at all! Ummm hard to say...theoretically more head mass may make it slightly harder to square so that could have made me miss slightly more right possibly....again can't say for sure though. Also typically with me I swing heavier heads slower so may have seen slower club speed and ball speed too. But that's a guess based on previous tests. The reality would be it would depend how I was swinging on that day 😂
Cobra adds 4g more weight to the head when they ship a "tour length" shaft (their stock offering of a 44.5" driver) it improves feel considerably as well as ball flight
Shorter shaft helps when your shorter in height , I'm 5ft 6 and a full length shaft is much harder to hit so I chop 2 inches of and it's much easier to square up
I tried out a 3 wood shaft in my driver today (12+1.5), my consistency of centre strikes went up Fairways found went up and the landing spot was generally middle Tempo was better Only negative was a slight drop off in distance. I've heard that adding weight to the head can resolve the distance drop off... can anyone confirm or elaborate on that?
Interesting research. There was not as much difference between shafts lengths as I expected. I suspect that this is heavily due to you being able to hit the sweet spot regardless of length. I suspect that with less ability in this that the differences would be greater and the 46" shaft would be considerably less accurate.
I've been struggling with "standard" tee height and set up. Drill on range with low tee for low point control. Played 9 with same idea and automatically hitting fairways and to target. Small sample, but why would a low tee improve contact? Ball dis go low unless really well struck, then ball would launch. Next ideas is trying with more loft to increase ball height
When we shorten the shaft, say by cutting 1.5 inch, then we normally add 16g-18g to the head. We expect that that the shaft now plays stiffer, however the added weight kind of compensated that. I have a doubt that, because of the heavier head weight, would this setup be causing open face due to the ratio between torque and head weight changed?
Very interesting. I was led to believe that cutting from the butt made the flex play softer. Would you recommend then adding weight to the head if it's been cut down? Thanks for the video.
No, anytime the shaft is shorter it will play stiffer, doesn't matter where you cut it from. If you cut from the tip the shaft will play stiffer than if you cut from the butt. And in terms of adding weight it depends on too many things for me to answer that. I.e. what head your using, what shaft your using, how much you're cutting down, what your tendencies are etc. but generally speaking for most amateurs I would say do not add weight unless you are cutting down a large amount.
I have recently performed this exact same test on myself. Took a 46" (D6 swing weight) shaft down to 44.25" and then adjusted weights in the head to bring it back to a D0. It's a bone crusher now, with a must easier to control draw. 👍
Interesting. I thought it would make a lot more difference than it appears to. Would gripping down the shaft a bit more have similar effect as shortening it?
It will be different for different players in all fairness. I may re-do the test with a more average speed, mid handicap player. But I also thought I would see a little bit more difference than I did. And no not really, because gripping down doesn't really change shaft characteristics or swingweight really.
I am curious if you can accomplish the same results by just choking down a half inch to 1 inch and measure similarly? Or does the half to 1 inch of the shaft hanging out beyond your grip change the dynamics?
you have a beautiful flowing swing with a lot of range of motion. For the "more experienced" golfers with swing speeds 80-90, would height matter much? I am 6'2 and have always gotten plus 1/2 inch making most of my drivers 45.75-46". My concern is if I shorten the club 1", would I also need to get a new shaft or add weight to head?
Thanks Bruce. And no when it comes to driver height doesn’t really matter. I would certainly never recommend anyone play longer than standard. Unless maybe they were 7ft plus. Not to say that they couldn’t but you’ve always got to ask yourself, what’s the benefit? Generally people think you can swing longer shafts faster, I rarely find this for the vast majority of people so generally you are just giving up control. In terms of shortening existing shaft I don’t see that being a problem, but always best to seek professional advice from a fitter. But 95% of the time just cutting down existing shaft is fine. And again vast majority of the time I would say don’t add weight into the head. For most golfers there’s no need and it don’t help. But again that is very player specific and the only way to find out what is best for you is testing 👍
Nice but I think you could have added tape to the head every time you cut the shaft, it would have reduced the shaft CPM deviation a bit and made swingweight more consistant for a more controllable swing.
I didn't want to do that for this test, as most amateurs cutting down their driver wouldn't do that, so I was almost recreating that test. I might do another one down the line where I do that possibly 👍
@@epgolfstudiosI see your point and realise there are too many variables which makes it impractical to test them all. Lately I've cut a couple of my driver shafts and found a super lightweight grip from golf pride (25g compared to the standard 45g grip) worked well for me by reducing the extra weight needed to the head. A slightly more costly option for those willing to experiment.
Great video. Tiger and Greg Norman at their height played 43.75. Would be interested to see if there's any impact if you add more weight to the head as the shaft shortens to balance the swing weight. I've just shortened my driver to 43.75 and not seeing any real change in distance.
If you don't add head weight every time you cut the driver down 1/2 inch it is going to drop about 3 swingweight points which will make it very light the shorter it gets. In addition adding head weight to keep the swingweight the same at every length will tend to make the shaft to a more similar flex at every length.
Another great video. I have been using a 44.25” driver for a long time. Titleist TSi2 driver the last couple years. This year I bought a different shaft, and went 45” I just got back from playing a 3 day tournament, and my partner signed me up to play the Senior tees. Courses were tight and lots of bunkers. I played a lot of bunt drivers, choking up about 1.5” on the shaft. On the holes with less trouble, I would grip it normally. On the last day I finally realized that I was hitting more fairways and hitting the ball as long as I was used to, when I was choked up. I’m putting in my old shaft for tomorrow’s round. I always tried to get the swingweight back up to around D2. I think for tomorrow’s round I won’t bother, and see what happens. ⛳️🏌🏽♂️
By coincidence last night I put a 3 wood Kaili white 70S into my Aerojet LS lofted it up to 12* to try & create a kind of “mini” driver & headed off to the practice ground. As you say it was noticeably lighter to swing which allowed me to attack more ? If that makes sense. My gamer driver is a Mizuno ST-Z with Kaili White 60S 45.25” & the Longest drive was with the mizuno BUT not by much and the Cobra was much tighter front to back and left to right. I have a dilemma now whether to take Frankenstein’s Driver onto the course 😂 Should I add a bit of weight into the head do you think ? I don’t have swing weight machine, is there a diy way of getting it close ?
If you took off the half inch from the tip vs the butt, how does that affect the CPM increase? If it goes up 4ish points from a butt trim, is a trip rim +7-9?
Thank you! Great information. I have a Stealth (set to 9.5) on Blue Liu Li, seems to measure 46". My old R7 9.5. which I frkin love, seems to measure 44". I have struggled with my new set up, with many mishits ...that seem to work out ok, and a bigger fade. My plan is to cut down to 44.5, I would appreciate thoughts? thanks
Ross a went like for like from a stealth 2 HD to i10 max red shaft on the stealth regular shaft to blue shaft reg on the qi10 and cant hit the qi10 at all everything goes straight right now a have lofted up on the i10 and cant hit it any ideas what wrong trottie says get the swing weight checked asap
Love the videos as always 👍🏻 Would love to see you build a 2 driver setup, maybe a normal 45.5/46 longer driver 9.deg, for open fairways - bombers. And a 2nd “mini” driver, normal driver head but 43.5”, 12’deg loft fairway finder. All swing weighted correctly etc. be really interesting to see if there is enough difference if you build 2 drivers, rather than a buying off the shelf mini driver, and drop a 3 wood to make space
That would be a good test, may do that in future 👍 my initial reaction would be the overall dispersion wouldn't be different enough for me to bother. Which is generally why I never really gamed a 3 wood. Dispersion same as driver so if I need to keep it in play I would always go for an iron as 3 wood miss is just as bad as driver 😂
@@epgolfstudios What about a super short low lofted wood instead? Like 13 degrees at 41 inches? Saw Drew cooper putting that sort of club in the bag recently to replace 3-wood and 2 iron, if you know who he is
Cut my driver to 44" length and added 11gm to the head. I'm hitting more fairways and no noticeable loss in distance. Being 5' 8", shorter driver looks and feels so much better.
Possibly, again there are so many variables in that. Firstly determining the correct shaft stiffness for you, as a 'stiff' shaft could be 3 flexes different from another 'stiff' shaft, so looking at what shaft you are using to start off with, then looking at how much you want to cut it down and figuring out how much the shaft will stiffen up. Generally speaking id say no unless you are planning on cutting off a lot. But a really hard question to answer.
@@epgolfstudiosim playing 45" with ventus black 6x, but my misses mostly right, feels like the face hard to close. Is it time to change shaft or add heavy head weight ? D4 on qi10 core
Cutting down is a big no no. Grip down and hit your longest drives in my opinion. Always keep the length in the shaft. Cutting down stiffens the shaft too as seen here.
Most golfers are double digit handicappers. High handicap golfers should be playing 43-44 inch drivers with a 100 gram shaft. Shafts kick toward the bottom so there is virtually no distance loss and high handicappers will hit the ball farther because they will hit the ball on the center of the face and the heavy shaft will smooth out their tempo. No one fits for shaft length or weight. Why aren't we giving golfers clubs they can actually hit??? The golf industry's GREED! If we gave golfers clubs they could actually hit they would never buy clubs again. Several years ago I was playing golf with my dad. He had a POS driver from a local sporting goods store. He was in the trees right all day. On hole 10 he asked to hit my 44.5 inch X flex driver with an 80 gram shaft. His swing speed was around 80 mph. He hit my driver dead straight down the middle of the fairway about 240 yards, so I'm speaking from experience.
Did I miss something, why wasn’t the swing weight kept consistent with the length change? Makes the results null as you now have 2 variables and are unable to tell which or both is causing a change in results. Also, Would the extra weights not neutralise the CPM increase due to the head mass increase?
Specifically did not change swingweight mainly because most people who would do this as an average weekend golfer would not think to add head weight. And for the most part I recommend that people cutting down the shaft do not add head weight to change swingweight as that will hinder the average golfer more than just playing a lighter swingweight. Most tests I do as the average person would so the test would be more true to real life. And yes adding head weight would make the shaft play softer but the shaft would still play a bit stiffer then previous regardless of adding mass as it wouldn't be a lot
@@epgolfstudios ok, I understand the rationale, but maybe a lost opportunity in educating people that cutting an inch off your driver is not always the best idea in isolation. I’ve played with several people who in the pursuit of straighter shots have shortened a club and ended up at an unplayable swing weight and hit it worse.
Try cutting the length, by tipping the shaft. When only butt is reduced, it changes the counterweight effect of the larger diameter shaft at the butt end Our subconscious determines how much effort to put into the swing by mass in our hands. If going to reduce length only at butt end, then at least add counter balance weights, otherwise the results will be skewed.
This is a test for the masses not the minority. So if any average golfer cuts down their driver shaft they will cut it down from the butt end (99% of the time) so this is what I am testing. And giving them my opinion and my data on generally speaking what could happen if they do this. And if you're talking swing speed relative to cutting from butt end or tip end it makes no difference.
@@epgolfstudios Beg to differ. If weight in our hands is ideal, the swing speed will be optimized. The example my instructor uses is lifting a box, with unknown weight. If someone tells you it is very heavy you will brace and subconsciously be prepared to move a larger mass; than if you were told it was a very light weight box. More mass in the grip end of the club produces the same subconscious message to our brain. Cutting length at the butt without compensating drastic change in swing weight also makes this trial questionable, IMO. Of course D7 starting point is questionable in itself.
It does depend on the person. But I can give 98% of amateurs a dramatically different shaft in terms of weight, flex, and balance point, and it makes basically no difference at all to swing speed. I've done it at least a few hundred times now. So again personally I would disagree. But everyone is entitled to think what they like 👍
@@epgolfstudios This is the trouble with golf. So much is left to opinion, when science is ignored or not known. FYI, the mechanical properties of any material used as a golf shaft with a hosel diameter of 0.335 inch looses its mechanical properties for consistency at 45 inch +, length of golf club. Pros find out by trial and error, but it is simple engineering calculation that no one , save my instructor(golf shaft designer) has made.
@dtgpsinc.4289 well the quad data is scientific enough for me. Tells us all we need to know about what a player is doing. Theory is pretty irrelevant for the most part. I do about 4/5 fits a day and have done for many years now and I always test a lot of variables in every fit. Shafts just in general don't make much difference to swing speed at all for the vast majority of amateurs.
The length I'm talking about in the video is the full playing length of the club, not just the length of the shaft, then obviously I'm cutting 0.5" off the shaft each time to change the overall playing length
Played my best golf last week with a ping g425 lst and no head weight and a regular counter balanced 3 wood shaft 🤣hit all fairways and won longest drive
For the vast majority of amateurs when they are cutting down driver shafts they do not think to add weight to the head, and actually for most people I recommend that they actually do not add weight to the head when doing this. As for most people it's better not to. Hence why I didn't do it on this test. Keeps it more relatable to real world
@@epgolfstudiosif cutting from the but is going to make club more head heavy in balance so prove for this reason more weight in the head would bake it more hammer like which is possibly not a good thing for most players . I would imagine there is a sweet spot of head balance on the shaft.
@@MrBrendon7 I was fit for the Titleist TSR2, regular flex, at 45", and the club was built by Titleist. I kept having trouble hitting the ball all over the driver face during my rounds, and subsequently did an extensive test on the driving range. I started out hitting balls at 45" with foot powder spray on the face and was hitting the toe and heal consistently. Not many shots were in the middle of the face. After cleaning the face and respraying the foot powder, I gripped down exactly 1/2" and hit the same number of balls. My shots were consistently in the middle of the club face. After this little experiment, I cut down the shaft 1/2", regripped the club, and increased the back weight to bring my swing weight closer to the original D5 that came from Titleist. I now hit the driver just as far, but find the fairway over 75% of the time!
Ive switched to a 44.5", and because I find the center more often and keep it on the fairway, it's a net gain across the board. Just need to be sure to get the swing weight back up to D2-D3 levels by adding more weight to the head.
This is great comparison. I shortened my driver to 45” and it worked wonders on my dispersion. My only problem now is the push fade you’re experiencing. But I think that’s more of a user error 😅.
If you go shorter length, you might need to adjust lie angle to compensate to keep start line the same. So if you go from 45.5 to 45, you might need to set hosel to .5 to .75 upright to keep face at similar angle.
I don't think FCM is valid in this test. As they go shorter the shafts physically feel A LOT stiffer....possibly if you start messing with head weight that would change but with constant head weight as you go shorter the shafts will be stiffer. FCM is messy and far too many variables when talking wood shafts
@@epgolfstudios When you use a CPM reader, and say 10 CPM is one flex, you make a clear connection to the FCM system. ALL shaft models on the marked has their own CPM slope, they all go stronger butt side when going shorter, but that does NOT mean "flex" (letter or number) went up like you claim. When you judge the same shaft at different lengths, you will have to include PL difference and the slope for the actual model to judge this correct. Having that said, i dont think anyone would go 1.5 inch shorter without some head wgt adjustment, and for each 1 SWP (1.63 grams at 44.50) we add back, CPM value will drop by 1. The FCM system is not messy at all, and you cant just "pick" out what you like from it (saying 10 CPM is 1 flex) and then ignore that its related to play length. Im sorry but you are misleading your own audience and create myths and misunderstandings this way.
Shocked you did not add weight as you shortened the shaft. Put 12 grams on the head and then tell us the freq. this is just sort of senseless. Cut the shaft, leave the head.
@@CharlotteK2008 right. What makes you think I did not ? He just proved the earth is round. Stupid test. Well known , obvious results. Nothing unique here. What he shows here is known by everybody with half a clue on club building.
Thanks for the comment and helping the video 👀😂😂 and I know you're just being a bit of a tit, but in a weird way you're actually kind of right, you can't go by what im doing nor can you go by anything any other club tester does on RUclips. The only way to ever know is TEST FOR YOURSELF! The only thing I am doing is pointing out patterns that's I've seen from doing thousands of fittings which for the most part will be good info for the audience 👌
Ross, just picked up an Accra tz6. 60 gram stiff. Used to playing a tensei 1k white 60s. Obviously different ends of the spectrum. I’m now hitting nice high draws, but my height is anywhere from 34-37 yards high making my descent angle almost straight down. Spin is good, just no roll out because of the height. Would you say trying to take this shaft to 45” from the standard TaylorMade length would be the first step ? Or would tipping be a better idea? I really like the feel of this shaft, and would like to put it in the bag if I can get the height down. Coming off wrist surgery my swing speed isn’t back to where it previously was to play the 1k white. Only averaging 106 mph. Down from 115. Much appreciated!!!
You are an excellent ball striker. I think for most people the desire to shorten has to do with control for misfits rather than straight up distance. So maybe the test is really to get some mid handicappers and apply similar test plan.
Years ago, when my body was much better than it is today and I was much younger, I experimented with driver lengths from 48 down to 42. This was a fun bit of tinkering. I have always been a club fitter and learned in my teens from an old man I used to work for just to get experience and learn. It was never my full-time job but I did attend Matby's course and learned a great deal. I wanted to have custom clubs easily for myself and I made some side money to pay for my golf. Anyway, I found the 48" shaft difficult to manipulate. For me, dispersion was the least in the shorter ranges. Today, at 65, I play essentially a 3W mini-driver at 42", 14 degrees loft and it is a senior shaft playing at R -. A big drive for me is 220. My game is devolving into a dink old man game. My woods go all the way down to 11W. The rest is 7i-PW, and 52, 56, 60, 68 wedges. I have put a lot of people into a shorter driver length over the years and the majority it has helped them find the fairways more easily. These are all mid to high handicap folks. Great video. Shafts really are critical for anyone's game. Most people I encounter who need help have too stiff of a shaft. Flex and length are key.
the reason I choked up on my driver shaft by an inch was to control the club face better. I'm 6'1 and the 45.5 never felt super comfortable for me. I started by choking up on the grip then I made the leap to get a completely new shaft from GolfWorks that's a flex down in the R flex, but cut a full inch to 44.5 so that it basically plays like a stiff. Added some weight to my clubhead and the difference in control is great. I've never felt more comfortable with my driver and I'm a 12 HCP. I think for anyone who's a lower handicap especially those approaching scratch you should be having a full set of fitted clubs anyway, but for someone like me in the teens HCP-wise then this really helped me keep that driver straight and the amount of times I now hit the sweet spot has gone up by about 30% according to the Trackman.
Would like to see the same test, but maintaining a constant swing weight.
I cut my current driver shaft down by I think half an inch. At first, it didn't feel much better and my driving didn't improve. I then watched a video from TxG and Ian Fraser said that if you reduce shaft length, you have to add a bit of headweight to maintain swing weight. I think it was something like 2g per half inch. When I added the headweight, my driving was vastly improved.
You could also try a lighter grip which will gain you roughly 2-3 swingweight points without needing to add more tape to the head. I started with cutting 1/2" off and adding 2-3g at the head, got good results which made me go a step further and cut another 1/2" but this time changed my standard 45g tour velvet to a super light 25g grip (available from golf pride). I'm still amazed how easy it feels to hit centre strike with a square clubface now, giving me a lot more confidence to swing hard on the teebox.
If everyone took a shot every time Ross says “to be fair”, we’d all be very drunk by now, to be fair 😂
lol good drinking game
I prefer the 'I don't hate it' drinking game.
Well to be fair...I don't hate it
@@PauloG100 either way, we’ll be keeping the liquor stores in business !
Most of us average golfer don’t necessarily need tons of distance, we need consistency, accuracy, forgiveness, a pleasing sound, value! Choking up does help, so does the proper ball! What about counter weighting in the handle? Thanks
Quality content per usual! Love the incite less the marketing blah blah from others. Really was interesting to see strike stats so similiar across lengths. Your comfort seemed best on shorter, even though you mashed many of the 46, lol.
Thanks Bill! Yeah my missus regardless of shaft length will always be big unfortunately 😭😂 but yeah generally I would agree. I tend to play around the 45 👌
Dude I'd take your big misses any day! 😂
Love to see this with a little weight added back to the head? Love the videos
I truly appreciate the "idea" of this test. But to be completely fair, you would need some time "between" each length adjustment to resynchronize your setup and delivery for the new feel of the club. Then you could establish consistency as the length and other factors are changing.
I’d say to be fair the swing weight needs to be adjusted to the same on each length driver test. It sort of nullifies the idea that the shorter shaft will result in more accuracy with the big change in swing weight each time. Keep up the great content. 😊
Thanks! Well that would massively depend on the player. The vast majority of players I see would be worse if they added weight back to the head. So need to be careful on that one id say.
From my personal experience going 45.5 to 44.5 moved my strike to the toe and increased left miss. But by changing shafts to stiffer tipped shaft and cutting down to 45 I not only gain distance, height and accuracy.
Time for me to hit the used Callaway website to find a 44" reg flex to replace my stock stiff shaft. I don’t bring the thunder like i used to!😂 Was doing a fitting at my club recently and had to ask the guy to stop calling out my carry distances out loud. I know I'm a short hitter i don’t need everyone else to hear...😊
Excellent information, well done!
I used to use a 47 inch driver before the USGA amateurs decided to ti be control freaks. It took a lot moire practice to hit consistently straight than the 46 inch driver. I didn't hit it much farther, but I swung less vertically which protected my back. I didn't have to contort my swing at all to hit the ball straight. a longer shaft will tend to promote a draw or hook because it makes the swing come slightly more from the inside For tall people that can be extremely helpful to stop chopping at the ball.
For me, I find the change in lie angle makes a big difference on low loft clubs, with longer shaft lifting the toe and causing more left misses. Shorter shaft lowers toe and more right misses. I think you compensate extremely well for variations in club. Great video and I think the most important take away for me is that people swinging 44.5 are probably not giving up much swing speed and likely will benefit much more than you did on finding the sweet spot. Thanks for doing this!
Great video and test and explanation, I've just shortened my driver and it feels like i have so much more control especially for someone who slices occasionally, and the driver feels so much lighter that i feel like i can generate more speed which is handy being in the slower swing speed bracket 👍
i cut my driver down to 44 inch, hit the fairway almost everytime now , and i started only 2 months ago
Great stuff! Yes a shorter shaft 100% can help, especially early on in the game 🙌👍
I’d be curious to see CPM numbers with every length at the same swing weight
On that note, would be curious to see the same test with same swing weight.
Yeah I may do this at some point, I think I'd need to get a tester in, whenever I do tests theres basically no difference 😂
From research it seems going back to the same sw the shaft may actually cpm softer
Recently picked up a mini driver with 43.75 shaft and lost a bit of distance in comparative shots in the fairway. However, getting more shots IN the fairway, so when compared to the misses with my regular driver that include OB shots, shots in the woods or topped 150 yards - I’m way ahead in distance gained.
Love the approach and the time stamps - these are really useful vids
Thanks Boredy 👊
Great video, thanks. How do you think a constant swing weight at say D3 would have affected your swing/results as the shaft was getting shorter?
No worries at all! Ummm hard to say...theoretically more head mass may make it slightly harder to square so that could have made me miss slightly more right possibly....again can't say for sure though. Also typically with me I swing heavier heads slower so may have seen slower club speed and ball speed too. But that's a guess based on previous tests. The reality would be it would depend how I was swinging on that day 😂
Cobra adds 4g more weight to the head when they ship a "tour length" shaft (their stock offering of a 44.5" driver) it improves feel considerably as well as ball flight
Awesome video, i was always under the impression shorter the shaft more creates a more neutral path ! Very interesting too see!
Plan on doing this myself next week, got two cobra heads, 3 shafts, a Rapsodo mln 2 and face impact sticker.
Callaway fitter at demo day had me play with 1” shorter staff because he said I will hit it more often in center
Yeah theoretically that makes sense. Practically you would have to do quite a lot of testing to prove it.
Shorter shaft helps when your shorter in height , I'm 5ft 6 and a full length shaft is much harder to hit so I chop 2 inches of and it's much easier to square up
I tried out a 3 wood shaft in my driver today (12+1.5),
my consistency of centre strikes went up
Fairways found went up and the landing spot was generally middle
Tempo was better
Only negative was a slight drop off in distance.
I've heard that adding weight to the head can resolve the distance drop off... can anyone confirm or elaborate on that?
great insight and great video, appreciate you doing the good work.
Interesting research. There was not as much difference between shafts lengths as I expected. I suspect that this is heavily due to you being able to hit the sweet spot regardless of length. I suspect that with less ability in this that the differences would be greater and the 46" shaft would be considerably less accurate.
currently at 41.5 inches. Feels great.
I've been struggling with "standard" tee height and set up. Drill on range with low tee for low point control. Played 9 with same idea and automatically hitting fairways and to target. Small sample, but why would a low tee improve contact? Ball dis go low unless really well struck, then ball would launch. Next ideas is trying with more loft to increase ball height
Does choking down on the club give the same differences as cutting it down? Or does swing weight stay more similar?
So what has the greater effect on the performance of the golf shaft, length, weight, flex, or shaft profile?
Great vid lad, really informative stuff here. I see no reason to play anything longer than 45"... Right now playing 44.75" and it's been great.
When we shorten the shaft, say by cutting 1.5 inch, then we normally add 16g-18g to the head. We expect that that the shaft now plays stiffer, however the added weight kind of compensated that. I have a doubt that, because of the heavier head weight, would this setup be causing open face due to the ratio between torque and head weight changed?
Very interesting. I was led to believe that cutting from the butt made the flex play softer. Would you recommend then adding weight to the head if it's been cut down? Thanks for the video.
No, anytime the shaft is shorter it will play stiffer, doesn't matter where you cut it from. If you cut from the tip the shaft will play stiffer than if you cut from the butt. And in terms of adding weight it depends on too many things for me to answer that. I.e. what head your using, what shaft your using, how much you're cutting down, what your tendencies are etc. but generally speaking for most amateurs I would say do not add weight unless you are cutting down a large amount.
@@epgolfstudios Thank you Ross... shall leave it to the experts.
I have recently performed this exact same test on myself. Took a 46" (D6 swing weight) shaft down to 44.25" and then adjusted weights in the head to bring it back to a D0. It's a bone crusher now, with a must easier to control draw. 👍
Thanks Ross 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Great video
Would adding weight back (to keep a fixed swingweight) change the flex ? Id assume it would maybe balance the flex added from the cut down.
Interesting. I thought it would make a lot more difference than it appears to. Would gripping down the shaft a bit more have similar effect as shortening it?
It will be different for different players in all fairness. I may re-do the test with a more average speed, mid handicap player. But I also thought I would see a little bit more difference than I did. And no not really, because gripping down doesn't really change shaft characteristics or swingweight really.
I am curious if you can accomplish the same results by just choking down a half inch to 1 inch and measure similarly? Or does the half to 1 inch of the shaft hanging out beyond your grip change the dynamics?
Hi does the same principle work for 3woods aswell?
Great video Ross, loving my 44.5’’ Ping G430 Max Driver!
Hey Simon! Great to hear it's going well mate 👊👊
Does player height play a factor. Im 6'2" just ordered a 46 inch driver, looking for more distance at age 57.
you have a beautiful flowing swing with a lot of range of motion. For the "more experienced" golfers with swing speeds 80-90, would height matter much? I am 6'2 and have always gotten plus 1/2 inch making most of my drivers 45.75-46". My concern is if I shorten the club 1", would I also need to get a new shaft or add weight to head?
Thanks Bruce. And no when it comes to driver height doesn’t really matter. I would certainly never recommend anyone play longer than standard. Unless maybe they were 7ft plus. Not to say that they couldn’t but you’ve always got to ask yourself, what’s the benefit? Generally people think you can swing longer shafts faster, I rarely find this for the vast majority of people so generally you are just giving up control. In terms of shortening existing shaft I don’t see that being a problem, but always best to seek professional advice from a fitter. But 95% of the time just cutting down existing shaft is fine. And again vast majority of the time I would say don’t add weight into the head. For most golfers there’s no need and it don’t help. But again that is very player specific and the only way to find out what is best for you is testing 👍
@ thank you !! When o buy the new driver and say I get it at 44.5”, would that effect swing weight? I heard for every 1/2” it adds 3 to swing weight?
Nice but I think you could have added tape to the head every time you cut the shaft, it would have reduced the shaft CPM deviation a bit and made swingweight more consistant for a more controllable swing.
I didn't want to do that for this test, as most amateurs cutting down their driver wouldn't do that, so I was almost recreating that test. I might do another one down the line where I do that possibly 👍
@@epgolfstudiosI see your point and realise there are too many variables which makes it impractical to test them all.
Lately I've cut a couple of my driver shafts and found a super lightweight grip from golf pride (25g compared to the standard 45g grip) worked well for me by reducing the extra weight needed to the head. A slightly more costly option for those willing to experiment.
Great video. Tiger and Greg Norman at their height played 43.75. Would be interested to see if there's any impact if you add more weight to the head as the shaft shortens to balance the swing weight. I've just shortened my driver to 43.75 and not seeing any real change in distance.
If you don't add head weight every time you cut the driver down 1/2 inch it is going to drop about 3 swingweight points which will make it very light the shorter it gets. In addition adding head weight to keep the swingweight the same at every length will tend to make the shaft to a more similar flex at every length.
Shouldn't one rather add weight to the shortened shaft in order to keep the same swing weight ?
Depends on the player
Is it just the shaft you measure, or is it the total with the adaptor fitted?
Would you add heavier weights in the head to get the swing weight back up, with the shorter shaft?
Yes, cobra adds 4g more weight to the head with their standard "tour length" shaft. Which from the factory is 44.5"
Another great video. I have been using a 44.25” driver for a long time. Titleist TSi2 driver the last couple years. This year I bought a different shaft, and went 45” I just got back from playing a 3 day tournament, and my partner signed me up to play the Senior tees. Courses were tight and lots of bunkers. I played a lot of bunt drivers, choking up about 1.5” on the shaft. On the holes with less trouble, I would grip it normally. On the last day I finally realized that I was hitting more fairways and hitting the ball as long as I was used to, when I was choked up. I’m putting in my old shaft for tomorrow’s round. I always tried to get the swingweight back up to around D2. I think for tomorrow’s round I won’t bother, and see what happens. ⛳️🏌🏽♂️
By coincidence last night I put a 3 wood Kaili white 70S into my Aerojet LS lofted it up to 12* to try & create a kind of “mini” driver & headed off to the practice ground.
As you say it was noticeably lighter to swing which allowed me to attack more ? If that makes sense. My gamer driver is a Mizuno ST-Z with Kaili White 60S 45.25” & the Longest drive was with the mizuno BUT not by much and the Cobra was much tighter front to back and left to right.
I have a dilemma now whether to take Frankenstein’s Driver onto the course 😂
Should I add a bit of weight into the head do you think ? I don’t have swing weight machine, is there a diy way of getting it close ?
So I want to cut down all my shafts to about 6-iron length. I want to know more about shaft frequency.
If you took off the half inch from the tip vs the butt, how does that affect the CPM increase? If it goes up 4ish points from a butt trim, is a trip rim +7-9?
Thank you! Great information. I have a Stealth (set to 9.5) on Blue Liu Li, seems to measure 46". My old R7 9.5. which I frkin love, seems to measure 44". I have struggled with my new set up, with many mishits ...that seem to work out ok, and a bigger fade. My plan is to cut down to 44.5, I would appreciate thoughts? thanks
Ross a went like for like from a stealth 2 HD to i10 max red shaft on the stealth regular shaft to blue shaft reg on the qi10 and cant hit the qi10 at all everything goes straight right now a have lofted up on the i10 and cant hit it any ideas what wrong trottie says get the swing weight checked asap
Love the videos as always 👍🏻 Would love to see you build a 2 driver setup, maybe a normal 45.5/46 longer driver 9.deg, for open fairways - bombers. And a 2nd “mini” driver, normal driver head but 43.5”, 12’deg loft fairway finder. All swing weighted correctly etc. be really interesting to see if there is enough difference if you build 2 drivers, rather than a buying off the shelf mini driver, and drop a 3 wood to make space
That would be a good test, may do that in future 👍 my initial reaction would be the overall dispersion wouldn't be different enough for me to bother. Which is generally why I never really gamed a 3 wood. Dispersion same as driver so if I need to keep it in play I would always go for an iron as 3 wood miss is just as bad as driver 😂
TXG (now Club Champion) done this test already.
@@epgolfstudios What about a super short low lofted wood instead? Like 13 degrees at 41 inches? Saw Drew cooper putting that sort of club in the bag recently to replace 3-wood and 2 iron, if you know who he is
I'm sure they've done most tests you can think of now to be fair
Yeah I know who Drew is, absolutely bombs it! And does sound interesting. I may have a play around! 👍
Is that a good plug for mini driver based on these stats?
Cut my driver to 44" length and added 11gm to the head. I'm hitting more fairways and no noticeable loss in distance. Being 5' 8", shorter driver looks and feels so much better.
If you are cutting from the butt end, wouldn’t you need to add the weight back to the butt end to keep the same sw?
No when you shorten the shaft from either end it reduces the swing weight. So you need to add weight to the head to bring the swing weight back up
So in theory get a reg flex trim it down to play stiffer. Whst about the shaft weight? Did that 60g become 50g by the end roughly
Likely only 5g of shaft removed
If you play a stiff shaft, would it be better to cut down a softer shaft to end up with a stiffer profile when finished?
Possibly, again there are so many variables in that. Firstly determining the correct shaft stiffness for you, as a 'stiff' shaft could be 3 flexes different from another 'stiff' shaft, so looking at what shaft you are using to start off with, then looking at how much you want to cut it down and figuring out how much the shaft will stiffen up. Generally speaking id say no unless you are planning on cutting off a lot. But a really hard question to answer.
@@epgolfstudiosgot it. Very little
Hi, So you spine shafts ?
Does spining make that much difference ?
Great channel.
@@stanster30 we don't spine shafts no, and personally I don't believe it does much
Ross, just curious. What length do you normally play in your gamer driver? BTW: love your channel.
Thanks Razor! And I normally play 45 👍
@@epgolfstudiosim playing 45" with ventus black 6x, but my misses mostly right, feels like the face hard to close. Is it time to change shaft or add heavy head weight ? D4 on qi10 core
Cutting down is a big no no. Grip down and hit your longest drives in my opinion. Always keep the length in the shaft.
Cutting down stiffens the shaft too as seen here.
Most golfers are double digit handicappers. High handicap golfers should be playing 43-44 inch drivers with a 100 gram shaft. Shafts kick toward the bottom so there is virtually no distance loss and high handicappers will hit the ball farther because they will hit the ball on the center of the face and the heavy shaft will smooth out their tempo. No one fits for shaft length or weight. Why aren't we giving golfers clubs they can actually hit??? The golf industry's GREED! If we gave golfers clubs they could actually hit they would never buy clubs again. Several years ago I was playing golf with my dad. He had a POS driver from a local sporting goods store. He was in the trees right all day. On hole 10 he asked to hit my 44.5 inch X flex driver with an 80 gram shaft. His swing speed was around 80 mph. He hit my driver dead straight down the middle of the fairway about 240 yards, so I'm speaking from experience.
Why did you pick a fairway at all. Range would have been a fairer comparison. Good though. Very interesting. Thanks.
Just gives much more of an idea of the result and offline when watching, rather than just hitting into a huge field
Did I miss something, why wasn’t the swing weight kept consistent with the length change? Makes the results null as you now have 2 variables and are unable to tell which or both is causing a change in results.
Also, Would the extra weights not neutralise the CPM increase due to the head mass increase?
Specifically did not change swingweight mainly because most people who would do this as an average weekend golfer would not think to add head weight. And for the most part I recommend that people cutting down the shaft do not add head weight to change swingweight as that will hinder the average golfer more than just playing a lighter swingweight. Most tests I do as the average person would so the test would be more true to real life. And yes adding head weight would make the shaft play softer but the shaft would still play a bit stiffer then previous regardless of adding mass as it wouldn't be a lot
@@epgolfstudios ok, I understand the rationale, but maybe a lost opportunity in educating people that cutting an inch off your driver is not always the best idea in isolation.
I’ve played with several people who in the pursuit of straighter shots have shortened a club and ended up at an unplayable swing weight and hit it worse.
I may have missed it, but any difference in club head speed?
That's at the end when we compare all the numbers
So can we conclude that the heavy swing weight stops him from swinging faster with the longer shaft? All in all there is not really any difference.
Try cutting the length, by tipping the shaft.
When only butt is reduced, it changes the counterweight effect of the larger diameter shaft at the butt end
Our subconscious determines how much effort to put into the swing by mass in our hands.
If going to reduce length only at butt end, then at least add counter balance weights, otherwise
the results will be skewed.
This is a test for the masses not the minority. So if any average golfer cuts down their driver shaft they will cut it down from the butt end (99% of the time) so this is what I am testing. And giving them my opinion and my data on generally speaking what could happen if they do this. And if you're talking swing speed relative to cutting from butt end or tip end it makes no difference.
@@epgolfstudios Beg to differ. If weight in our hands is ideal, the swing speed will be optimized. The example my instructor uses is lifting a box, with unknown weight.
If someone tells you it is very heavy you will brace and subconsciously be prepared to move
a larger mass; than if you were told it was a very light weight box.
More mass in the grip end of the club produces the same subconscious message to our brain.
Cutting length at the butt without compensating drastic change in swing weight also makes
this trial questionable, IMO. Of course D7 starting point is questionable in itself.
It does depend on the person. But I can give 98% of amateurs a dramatically different shaft in terms of weight, flex, and balance point, and it makes basically no difference at all to swing speed. I've done it at least a few hundred times now. So again personally I would disagree. But everyone is entitled to think what they like 👍
@@epgolfstudios This is the trouble with golf. So much is left to opinion, when science is ignored or not known. FYI, the mechanical properties of any material used as a golf shaft with a hosel diameter of 0.335 inch looses its mechanical properties for consistency at 45 inch +, length of golf club. Pros find out by trial and error, but it is simple engineering calculation that no one , save my instructor(golf shaft designer) has made.
@dtgpsinc.4289 well the quad data is scientific enough for me. Tells us all we need to know about what a player is doing. Theory is pretty irrelevant for the most part. I do about 4/5 fits a day and have done for many years now and I always test a lot of variables in every fit. Shafts just in general don't make much difference to swing speed at all for the vast majority of amateurs.
Is the length taken off the shaft only or including the head?
The length I'm talking about in the video is the full playing length of the club, not just the length of the shaft, then obviously I'm cutting 0.5" off the shaft each time to change the overall playing length
Played my best golf last week with a ping g425 lst and no head weight and a regular counter balanced 3 wood shaft 🤣hit all fairways and won longest drive
Sounds like that's the set up for you then 😂👌👌
@@epgolfstudios got obsessed in using the swing weight calculators online and noticed I prefer a light swing weight.
This test would have been better if you added head weight to maintain a constant swing weight at all lengths.
For the vast majority of amateurs when they are cutting down driver shafts they do not think to add weight to the head, and actually for most people I recommend that they actually do not add weight to the head when doing this. As for most people it's better not to. Hence why I didn't do it on this test. Keeps it more relatable to real world
@@epgolfstudiosif cutting from the but is going to make club more head heavy in balance so prove for this reason more weight in the head would bake it more hammer like which is possibly not a good thing for most players . I would imagine there is a sweet spot of head balance on the shaft.
I put a 46” shaft and it was like cheating how far I was hitting
Ive come to the conclusion that you are just too adaptive with all these great tests
Looks like 44.5 is the way to go for dispersion and virtually no loss of distance
Done this sort of test a few times and I'm starting to think the same 👀👀 and actually game it. My driving couldn't get much worse so worth a try 🤷😂
Thinking the same, bugger all the other technical confusing stuff. Nothing to really worry about
@@MrBrendon7 I was fit for the Titleist TSR2, regular flex, at 45", and the club was built by Titleist. I kept having trouble hitting the ball all over the driver face during my rounds, and subsequently did an extensive test on the driving range. I started out hitting balls at 45" with foot powder spray on the face and was hitting the toe and heal consistently. Not many shots were in the middle of the face. After cleaning the face and respraying the foot powder, I gripped down exactly 1/2" and hit the same number of balls. My shots were consistently in the middle of the club face. After this little experiment, I cut down the shaft 1/2", regripped the club, and increased the back weight to bring my swing weight closer to the original D5 that came from Titleist. I now hit the driver just as far, but find the fairway over 75% of the time!
@pauldavis8286 nice mate, it's weird the oem,s keep bringing out longer shafts when it's proven heaps it actually hurts our game more than help
Ive switched to a 44.5", and because I find the center more often and keep it on the fairway, it's a net gain across the board. Just need to be sure to get the swing weight back up to D2-D3 levels by adding more weight to the head.
This is great comparison. I shortened my driver to 45” and it worked wonders on my dispersion.
My only problem now is the push fade you’re experiencing. But I think that’s more of a user error 😅.
Glad it helped. And yes unfortunately we can't blame equipment for everything...as much as we like to 😂😂😂
If you go shorter length, you might need to adjust lie angle to compensate to keep start line the same. So if you go from 45.5 to 45, you might need to set hosel to .5 to .75 upright to keep face at similar angle.
magical magnetic tree!
We DONT go stronger like you claim. Butt cut is ALWAYS going softer.
46.0 = 250 CPM = FCM 5.4
45.5 = 254 CPM = FCM 5.4
45.0 = 257 CPM = FCM 5.3
44.5 = 262 CPM = FCM 5.2
I don't think FCM is valid in this test. As they go shorter the shafts physically feel A LOT stiffer....possibly if you start messing with head weight that would change but with constant head weight as you go shorter the shafts will be stiffer. FCM is messy and far too many variables when talking wood shafts
@@epgolfstudios When you use a CPM reader, and say 10 CPM is one flex, you make a clear connection to the FCM system. ALL shaft models on the marked has their own CPM slope, they all go stronger butt side when going shorter, but that does NOT mean "flex" (letter or number) went up like you claim. When you judge the same shaft at different lengths, you will have to include PL difference and the slope for the actual model to judge this correct. Having that said, i dont think anyone would go 1.5 inch shorter without some head wgt adjustment, and for each 1 SWP (1.63 grams at 44.50) we add back, CPM value will drop by 1.
The FCM system is not messy at all, and you cant just "pick" out what you like from it (saying 10 CPM is 1 flex) and then ignore that its related to play length.
Im sorry but you are misleading your own audience and create myths and misunderstandings this way.
Tip or butt trim?
Extremely interesting video. Smash that like button 👇
Thanks A 👊👊
Please stand still
.....no 😂
No idea why but my wife wanted to watch this. However she hates golf! "Stiff and long works better". Ok dear
Shocked you did not add weight as you shortened the shaft. Put 12 grams on the head and then tell us the freq. this is just sort of senseless. Cut the shaft, leave the head.
You totally missed the point of the test.
Listen before stupidly commenting
@@CharlotteK2008 right. What makes you think I did not ? He just proved the earth is round. Stupid test. Well known , obvious results. Nothing unique here. What he shows here is known by everybody with half a clue on club building.
Cutting down is a big no no. Grip down and hit your longest drives in my opinion.
This guy is awful,how can you go by what he is doing?
Thanks for the comment and helping the video 👀😂😂 and I know you're just being a bit of a tit, but in a weird way you're actually kind of right, you can't go by what im doing nor can you go by anything any other club tester does on RUclips. The only way to ever know is TEST FOR YOURSELF! The only thing I am doing is pointing out patterns that's I've seen from doing thousands of fittings which for the most part will be good info for the audience 👌
Ross, just picked up an Accra tz6. 60 gram stiff. Used to playing a tensei 1k white 60s. Obviously different ends of the spectrum. I’m now hitting nice high draws, but my height is anywhere from 34-37 yards high making my descent angle almost straight down. Spin is good, just no roll out because of the height. Would you say trying to take this shaft to 45” from the standard TaylorMade length would be the first step ? Or would tipping be a better idea? I really like the feel of this shaft, and would like to put it in the bag if I can get the height down. Coming off wrist surgery my swing speed isn’t back to where it previously was to play the 1k white. Only averaging 106 mph. Down from 115. Much appreciated!!!
Might have to game the 46 from now on 👍🏻🏌🏻♂️ great video as always m8.
Cheers Chris 👊 na bit long for me that is 😂