Stock driver shafts are getting longer in an attempt to hit longer distances and installing lighter grips. However the Tour average length is at least 1" shorter than stock. We therefore have a situation where you loose 6 swing weight points if you shorten the shaft by an inch and if you like a mid size grip you loose another 3 swing weights. For Titleist drivers the maximum commercial head weight available is 23 grams so you can never compensate enough to bring the club up to the stock and best D2 setting. Is it not time that manufacturers address these issues with different designs that the majority of golfers need instead of pursuing the the goal that distance is everything.
I’ve been experimenting with swingweight for the last year or so with woods and irons. What Ive found for me is that a heavier total weight does not bother me, but swingweights above d3 affect me negatively no matter the total weight. The worst combination for me is a light total weight with a heavy swingweight. I play driver at 44 3/4” which keeps my swingweight in that d0 to d2 range depending on shaft and headweight.
D3 is about my max too. When it gets any more it starts getting way to hard to control.. Anything too light and I completely lose feel for the club. Golf is weird and confusing
A quick test on a both an Aerojet LS 10.5 driver and Aerojet LS 3 wood last night. Driver first, total weight remained constant at 317g, (12g & 3g weights). Draw setting the balance point was 855mm from grip end giving a swing weight of D3.6. With weight out towards the toe the balance point moved to 864mm from the grip, and gave a resultant swing weight of D5.9 Quite a change!! So next up Aerojet LS 3 wood, total club weight 327g. In draw setting the balance point was 834mm from grip giving D2.1 and in fade setting the balance point had moved to 838mm giving D3.2 So from these very basic tests, the swing weight is effected by moving the head weights. What we here all the time is how the weight positioning in the head has an effect on face closure rates helping to draw or fade accordingly, by a few yards. But is it really the resultant swing weight which is changing how we react, and then the resultant ball flight???
When we say get fitted, this is only a fraction of what we mean. HOWEVER! If your fitter skims over this part, ask for it or get a refund and go somewhere else! Imagine the water in the bucket and swinging it around, you don't have to do much for that to work right? Now imagine if the water was isolated to an odd spot in the bucket, you'd have to put a lot of effort into getting the water to stay in the bucket. Same with swinging a club and getting it to square. Wrong weight or weight placement and you'll have inconsistent outcomes trying to make it work.
Have you performed a similar test for irons? Rather than get new clubs, I reshafted my irons. I am very happy with driver, fairway and hybrid. Irons are great too. However, I have a question I have been trying to answer. My irons came with 72 grams R flex shaft (Recoil Dart 75 F3) and I reshafted with Graphite Design Tour AD 55 R1 flex at 58 grams. The original swing weight of the irons was C6. After reshafting, the SW is D0. I picked up distance and a significantly better dispersion. My question is what would happen if I reshafted with the same shaft but at 78 grams, not 58 and kept a D0 SW? Also, for the Tour AD shaft, the shaft profile is identical at 58, 68 and 78 grams. Shafts heavier than 78 show shaft profile changes. So, assuming same swingweight and shaft profle, how does shaft weight impact club performance? Thank you. Great video.
Great video. Very interesting. I saw the same thing when I changed to midsize grip and added head weight to balance it out to the same swing weight as b4. My miss became more pronounced and more right. 👍
I had a steel shaft in my driving iron then switched it to a graphite shaft because I'm getting older but felt to light so I put lead tape on the middle of the shaft and it felt a lot better.
Good test, appreciate the effort. In my research I have found pros who play heavy swing weight, expected Bryson to be one. But he plays irons at over 500 grams but at high B to C2 swing weights. Wow! I’m older 66 and play c9, but experimenting myself going lower
Very consistent swing You should replicate Brysons club and test against your gamer, but a weight lifting program may be needed first, I couldn’t carry them that heavy. Lol
I just got a new driver that came in 1/4" short and 4 or 5 grams light on the head. Now I'm trying to figure out what I can do because I do like the head and I have an aftermarket shaft coming. Thanks for giving me some ideas.
Very interesting and goes to show that the money spent on RandD by the company that produce these clubs is pretty good but there are always ‘tweaks’ that can be made to improve performance based on individual swing.
Yeah to be honest I didn't really mention in the video that I think most OEM swingweights are too heavy for most, prob should have mentioned that 😂 just becuase drivers especially are getting so long and headweight changes haven't really been made to suit
Nice video. But adding weight in the head to the same driver combo would make the shaft play softer correct? The frequency would be lower because of the heavier head. And the opposite would be true of you make the head lighter? And changing the flex of the shaft will definitely change your contact points on the face during the testing?
Correct yes. Heavier head would make the shaft play softer and lighter head would make the shaft play stiffer. But in terms of moving strike point that would be very player dependant. Sometimes it doesn't matter what change I make a player will always hit it out the toe. But sometimes even small changes will move strike. So very player dependant.
How much effect do you think there was from the drastic changes between swing weights? I have to imagine that going from D5 to C5 or something similar is going to impact the results because it will take a few swings for your muscles to recalibrate. And you mentioned fatigue...I'd also guess that your results in the later groups, especially, are a little suspect just because you're getting tired enough that your swing isn't as accurate as it would otherwise be.
Comparing clubhead speed (instead of ball speed) would tell quite a different story, if people were paying attention to your live hitting. Ball speed is too dependent on smash factor to make conclusions about swing weight.
Absolutely, but ultimately ball speed is the main factor in distance so whatever swingweight gives you max ball speed doesn't matter. Its all about the output, the input doesn't really matter as long as the result is better
So! I shorten my driver 1”1/4. And added jumbo grips! more weight on the grip affects the same right ?? probably moved the swing weight about 12 points? Haven’t hit with it yet, but with this logic , my driver now has a super light swing weight, and stiffer ( shorter shaft), if I compensate with some weight on the head 2gr for every point, I should add about 24gr, that should make it play about the same flex as before and should bring the swing weight up, right??
I do wish I was closer and could come in for a fittings. I’ve worked with several fitters and none of them ever even mentioned swing weight or trying different swing weights.
Most "fitters" are just guys who hand you differant clubs and hope like most people you buy the one that goes the furthest. 90% should not be calling themselves fitters.
Hi, super interesting video. I was looking to change my driver shaft and was wondering weather i should go for lighter grips if my shaft weight increases by 10g?
Great video, im thinking of shortening my driver shaft by 1 inch, would it be best to add 12g to the head, lighten my grip by 24g or maybe a combination of the 2 ?
I just tipped my driver and 3 wood by an inch. I am thinking of adding some lead tape to the head and go with a lighter grip. I already tried it with 8g of lead on the head. It is an improvement. Next I am going to try the lighter grip too.
Good day Ross. Many thanks for the insight with regard to swing weight. As a fitter myself, there's one question that I've tried to solve over the years , and that is, what is the magical head weight required for optimum efficiency. As you well know momentum is a formula which is mass x velocity. However what is the optimum head weight for maximum distance versus a swing speed in the region of 110 mph. I don't mind your lengthy videos as the detail is obvious. Thank you kindly
Hey Romano, thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoy the videos. Well I think that's a very very tough question to answer. Mainly because it will be different for everyone. Some people will lose swing speed when they add weight to the head and then others won't. In my opinion swing speed matters more than head weight for generating more ball speed. So the bigger question is where is the point of maximum club head speed and maximum head weight for you. As you saw in this test my highest ball speed of the day came from the lightest headweight and lightest overall weight. So I really think that the theory of adding more weight to the head creates more ball speed is incorrect for the high majority of golfers, including myself. On the positive side there won't be a huge difference in it either way. Maybe 2/3mph tops I'd say. So more worth worrying about strike and dispersion than speed tbh.
@EP Golf Studios Hallo Ross Many thanks for your reply and your valuable insight and time. To be honest, I've conducted endless trials with regards to what constitutes this magical combination ratio between head weight and swing weight. I've watched all your videos on the subject and my heart is torn between your advice and that of the manufacturers who advocate different weight and swing weight combinations. However, as you rightly say, it's very much an individual thing. I own a Ping G425 LST driver playing at 45" using an Aldila Rogue shaft. Head weight is 201g Shaft weight is 70g Swing weight is D3
weight is added or removed in either the head or butt to change a feel, that is the "theory". Its all individual because people respond differently to where they feel the weight, depending on the tempo and the release. What happen to you is predicable.
How will going from a 55g stiff stock shaft to a 76g stiff aftermarket shaft affect swing weights? Seems people swap out shafts all the time for either lighter or heavier ones.
Generally around 8/9 grams in the shaft makes around 1 swingweight difference. So if you went from 55 to 76 that would play around 2 swing weights heavier. The balance point of the shaft would also play a factor in that though.
Honest question. Why test on a simulated hole instead of a driving range? If the ball hits a slope or rough it can drastically change total distance and dispersion Also, if D5 is your best swingweight for consistency, would you try a lighter build at same swingweight?
Thanks for reply! So currently playing 12* with said shaft. Shall i practice hitting up with 12* or lower degree of head, say, too 10.5, and practice with hitting up with that? Thanks
Buy yourself a cheap low spin 9 degree driver and learn to hit that 👍 if you can keep that in the air so it looks like a nice flight then you are hitting up enough.
I have a pretty short attention span and watch this entire video twice ha. You’re doing the kind of testing that I have thought about if I had all the equipment to perform. Very interesting stuff. I play Miura Irons and I’ve always found them to be built with a pretty heavy swing weight like D4 or D5. Is that because Miura heads are typically heavier than those from other manufacturers? I would like a lighter swing weight but not by adding additional weight in the handle which would raise the overall weight. Suggestion?
you cant defy physics, so the only way is a lighter head weight and i doubt you want to drill weight out of your muira heads! you can somtimes drill the hozzle a little deeper, but that might get 2g 1 swign weight. You could also have a shaft pulled just to check weights have not beeing put in the head end of the staft to get it to d4/5 if they have you could have the weights removed.
Yeah I’d probably look at shaft mainly, go lighter and maybe more CB to try and help get it down a little bit. As mentioned going shorter is really the only other option. Depending on where they were built they could have tip weights in, generally D4 is a standard swing weight for irons in a lot of places and will be built up to that, normally with a heavier shaft they come out around D4 anyway. Go down to around 90/100g shaft and that will drop down to D0/D1
Can you share information about how the shafts themselves contribute to overall swing weight? Are some shafts heavier in the butt vs toe? What would be a couple of shafts that are butt end heavy and a couple that are tip end heavy? Thanks
There are lots of “counter balanced” (butt-heavy) shafts out there. Ping Alta CB, Tensei pro orange and Hzrdus rdx smoke blue to name a few. Generally speaking, a 70 gram shaft will swing one swingweight point heavier than a 60 gram shaft of the same model but not necessarily.
Thank you for a great video. I think this is the best video I’ve ever seen on this subject. I was fitted for a driver nearly two years ago and I just don’t feel like it’s where it needs to be (dispersion wise) so I’ve been making some tweaks. My fitter encouraged me to keep ramping up my swing speed to maximize distance even though distance is not a top concern for me. Thanks again for the video.
Very interesting video. I play clubs that are currently D2 in swing weight with standard grips that are small for me. If I was to change the grip to mid size what will happen to my swing weight? I don’t want to lose the current D2 but I need to change the grip to mid size.
Gerry Hogan, author of " The Hogan Manual of Human Performance: GOLF, 1992. 1...the headweight must be a weight that you are comfortable swinging, for you, at the length that you choose. Forget all the gobbledegook, this is your club, it must match you if you are going to have a long and happy relationship. 2...the headweight, the butt weight, the shaft weight and the grip weight will contribute to the swingweight. 3...the longer you have the shaft, the greater the s/w will be. It works out at approximately 6 s/w points to the inch. It also works out at about 7grams to the 1/2" in terms of effort required. Adding two inches to your current driver setup will take you from (say) D3 to E1 and the headweight 'effect' from (say) 200 grams to something like 7x4(1/2" ) 228 grams. 4...the (say) 6 iron head is 7 grams heavier than the 5 iron head and the shaft is 1/2" shorter, the extra weight being there to maintain the s/w balance. See 4 above. 5...the longer the shaft for any given head weight, the greater the potential for unwanted droop, flexing and twisting. 6...the larger the clubhead, ditto 5 above 7...the heavier the clubhead..ditto 5 above 8...the heavier and larger the clubhead..ditto 5 above. 9...the lighter the clubhead and shaft lower end, the greater the potential for head deceleration resulting from impact. 10..the lower the head speed at point of separation between ball and face, the slower the ball leaves the clubface. 11..the point that everyone misses; while you may be a super human athlete and you are completely satisfied that you can swing your driver at 2" longer for the same head weight, on the same shaft, you still have to contend with the effects that MUST arise on that shaft. Because you can swing it has no direct bearing on how the shaft copes with it. You need to remember that. 12..In my opinion; the Nunchuk shaft is certainly among the stiffest, strongest, most droop and twist resistant shafts ever made, even it cannot tolerate a 200gram driver head at 45" and longer. If you swing it slow enough, smoothly enough, yes but under pressures of play and/ or adverse weather conditions you will give it a little push and a grab and suffer the consequences. 13..the only shaft that I know of that can tolerate a 200 gram head at 45" with complete indifference to that weight and length is the "father of Nunchuk" as somebody in this thread called it, the original 21AD extra stiff shaft with the .370" (9.5mm) tip. But that is another story! 14.. I would set the finished shaft length @ 44". That gives you a fundamental basis to work from. I would be opting for a grip weight of around 50-52grams first up, you can always re- grip with jumbos, whatever, at a later time.That gives you your shaft length and grip weight and headweight will give you s/w. Job done! 15..At 44" with a 50gram grip a headweight of approx 207-208grams should net you a sw of D3. Here is the easy way. I would cram the fiber wadding in and take the headweight up to 205grams. I would then check s/w by gripping the shaft and slipping it into the hosel and check s/w. Alternately use a thin rubber band and attach grip to shaft end (parallel) so that ring cap is level with shaft end. 16..This gives you thee alternatives for finishing the club. (a)..bond everything as is and then lead tape afterwards to increased headweight, if necessary. (b)..bond club t finish but use a bond/glue that breaks down easily under heat with a shaft extractor. You can then test hit the club and, if you want more head weight, pop the shaft out and add more stuffing. The third possibility is to bond with soft bond/ glue, as mentioned, then use lead tape to bring up final weight that suits you under actual testing. Pop head of later, measure head weight carefully, remove lead tape and add stuffing. The last is my own preferred method.
hello mate, can a heavy swing weight in your irons cause a lot of fat shots? been fitted with D2 in my 5-8I and D3 9 and PW, and have been hitting it fat and behind the ball ever since i got these irons
D2 isnt heavy at all. (Irons stock are usually D0/D2) I would guess that you have a different shaft than before and am now strugling to time the release at the bottom of the swing due to how the new shaft loads and releases (bends) i guess they were fine at the fitting but you were hitting off a matt.
To be honest it will be different for everyone. Really you want the heaviest head weight that you can move the fastest. At some point adding too much weight you will start to lose speed and that's where you stop. For most people generally going lighter will create more club speed which will ultimately mean more ball speed. So for me if I wanted to max out potential distance I'd probably go around C9.
@@epgolfstudios ok.. What effect if my driver SW D5.. I use cobra amp.. Shaft length 45..this SW good for me.. But i want to more distance..what I change to C9 for distance n consistensi.
Hi. I've just replaced my grips from standard lamkins to midsize So adding around 12g to handle. My irons seem ok, but my driver is spinning more, would changing the weights in the head to add more to the head help with that ?
I have always struck the ball with the driver, with a negative AOA, so thought, " higher loft and low sin low launch shaft! Although it's very easy to control, and always in the fairway ( which I'm happy with btw) I still feel I'm leaving yards out there! I swing around 96,97 mph. And carry around 230. I have no idea what the seing weight is! And my club pro seems dismissive of that value! I see the guys on and around RUclips getting more distance than me, hitting off tge shelf clubs, with same speed yet grabbing additional yardage, quote , the average golfer!!! Same speed l, 10 yards min further mainly in fairway! HELP!😂
A lot of that will be angle of attack for sure. Hitting down is just a HUGE killer for distance. If you're looking to increase carry you need to start there. Swingweight may help increase speed a little and strike consistency but nothing will gain many yards if you're still hitting down on it 👍
I wonder what tipping and length does to swingweight I had the tr red 6s at 44.75 shaft length and felt to easy to load and tip felt very loose so I got it tipped 1/4 of an inch post build and now it feels far to stiff and I can’t load it at all. Prob have to pop down in the new year and get fitted as I’m not messing about with a ventus shaft again as there not cheap
Well I guess when you mean tipping you mean you are tipping an already built club? And therefore making it shorter in playing length? Rather than when building a raw club tipping wouldn't effect final playing length. Tipping 1/4" would make it roughly 1.5 swingweights lighter, so probably noticeable but not huge. Tipping 1/4" will make the shaft play around 1/6th of a flex stiffer. So not a huge difference. Both together would compound to make more of a difference overall. You could add weight back into the head which would make the shaft play softer and bring back some feeling to the head. I think on the whole doing that would be noticeable but it surprises me that you say it made it far too stiff. You must be very sensitive to flex changes. I personally think don't mess around with tipping on driver shafts, just get fit for the right shaft from the off. So many shafts are more than stable enough for all golfers. Unless you are Bryson and need a Rebar 😂 but even then there are shafts that exist that are stiff enough without having to mess around with it. So yes you are right just get fitted and then you know it will be all good 👍 But I do have a video on tipping too.
@@epgolfstudios cheers for the advice I’ll prob try and get down in the new year and get driver setup dialled in. Yeah was post build I got it tipped . Was clearing 250 carry 280 total before I messed with it but looked a bit spinny and tip felt loose and head lagged behind abit now I can’t get anywhere near that and tip feels like it doesn’t move at all prob length change has changed my swing speed and delivery on top of what you said wish I left it alone tbh
@@stevethepigeon7159 Seems like the combination of all those things threw off your natural timing. I've seen quite a few testimonies of guys tweaking driver shorter and shorter and then suddenly it's unplayable. Whatever happened, life is too short to play too-spinny drivers when there are many low spin driver and ball options. Good luck.
I had a driving iron that i had built and did not like the KBS TGI 95 stiff shaft i had fitted. I had an old hybrid iron that had a aldilla 65 reg in that felt pretty whippy, so i though id pull it and stick it in the driving iron butas i said it was a whippy REG, so i tipp the end 1" 1/2 stiffness. so should play REG+ I was really suprise how (ened witht he same swing weights) all that whippyness is gone, it feels like a soli stiff not not a reg+ @@lkae4
statistically indistinguishable. except for launch angle, which is 1 standard deviation above normal but you need 10 swing weights to see this. still does not pass the statistical test as being different. but probably will be if you go to 15 or 20 swing weights off. this will never happen. GC4 gives you the standard deviation. what you do is you take mean (the big number), and then use the sd (the small number) as a range. in statistics, its 2sd's off the mean before we even consider a datapoint as statistically significant. so for D1 ball speed it is 166+-2.4, this is where 95% of strikes are expected to land in with lower and higher values being outliers. if you compare this to C1 it is 165.5+-4. clearly these two distributions are well overlapping and there is honestly no difference except an imagined one. what does this mean? it means the values you are displaying are not the correct values to focus on--the data is saying ball speed, launch angle, spin, side angle, path, carry and total are all unaffected by swing weight. any difference you might interpret from it is just unsupported by the data shown. if swing weight affects control then you should be plotting strike point deviation against swing weight. for this to be proven there must be a clear trend in V impact and/or H impact against swing weight, or at least a trend in the sd of these values against swing weight. at least there may be a chance that a correlation exists here. but you need to show the data, otherwise it is all just feels and GC4 is irrelevant.
Really the biggest thing I see in fits is swingweight affecting directional miss and ability to square the face consistently. But that's going to be different for every golfer. Same as the swing speed / ball speed will be completely different for every golfer. This data for me is pretty irrelevant as im always just going to play the swingweight that feels the most comfortable to me. Which in fairness has changed over time. In terms of strike I think that would be a pretty impossible stat to track and ensure it's accurate. You'd need such a huge data set to really distinguish if there's any difference and it would be different for every golfer so really it's a bit of an irrelevant test. you'd either get an average golfer who would hit it all of the face with any swingweight, or a very good golfer who after a handful of swings would figure it out and hit them all pretty well. So generally I think strike isn't really the biggest one to focus on. It would be face to path and miss reduction.
some people are able to swing very different clubs the same. they adapt well, most of us cant and need all the help we can get having a club built to our sweetspot.
Man, you must have been a terrible student. The simplest explanation is always best for the simplest people. Nuance is reserved for those capable of maintaining focus for more than 5 minutes at a time! 😂
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Stock driver shafts are getting longer in an attempt to hit longer distances and installing lighter grips. However the Tour average length is at least 1" shorter than stock. We therefore have a situation where you loose 6 swing weight points if you shorten the shaft by an inch and if you like a mid size grip you loose another 3 swing weights. For Titleist drivers the maximum commercial head weight available is 23 grams so you can never compensate enough to bring the club up to the stock and best D2 setting.
Is it not time that manufacturers address these issues with different designs that the majority of golfers need instead of pursuing the the goal that distance is everything.
Unfortunately distance sells
I’ve been experimenting with swingweight for the last year or so with woods and irons. What Ive found for me is that a heavier total weight does not bother me, but swingweights above d3 affect me negatively no matter the total weight. The worst combination for me is a light total weight with a heavy swingweight. I play driver at 44 3/4” which keeps my swingweight in that d0 to d2 range depending on shaft and headweight.
D3 is about my max too. When it gets any more it starts getting way to hard to control.. Anything too light and I completely lose feel for the club. Golf is weird and confusing
A quick test on a both an Aerojet LS 10.5 driver and Aerojet LS 3 wood last night. Driver first, total weight remained constant at 317g, (12g & 3g weights). Draw setting the balance point was 855mm from grip end giving a swing weight of D3.6. With weight out towards the toe the balance point moved to 864mm from the grip, and gave a resultant swing weight of D5.9 Quite a change!! So next up Aerojet LS 3 wood, total club weight 327g. In draw setting the balance point was 834mm from grip giving D2.1 and in fade setting the balance point had moved to 838mm giving D3.2 So from these very basic tests, the swing weight is effected by moving the head weights. What we here all the time is how the weight positioning in the head has an effect on face closure rates helping to draw or fade accordingly, by a few yards. But is it really the resultant swing weight which is changing how we react, and then the resultant ball flight???
Great comment! I’ve been tinkering with swingweight for the last year and never considered that as being a factor.
Very helpful information, thank you.
When we say get fitted, this is only a fraction of what we mean. HOWEVER! If your fitter skims over this part, ask for it or get a refund and go somewhere else! Imagine the water in the bucket and swinging it around, you don't have to do much for that to work right? Now imagine if the water was isolated to an odd spot in the bucket, you'd have to put a lot of effort into getting the water to stay in the bucket. Same with swinging a club and getting it to square. Wrong weight or weight placement and you'll have inconsistent outcomes trying to make it work.
Great video, very educational
Love the deep dive into club design. Keep up these videos.
Thanks Wattakid 👍👍
Have you performed a similar test for irons? Rather than get new clubs, I reshafted my irons. I am very happy with driver, fairway and hybrid. Irons are great too. However, I have a question I have been trying to answer. My irons came with 72 grams R flex shaft (Recoil Dart 75 F3) and I reshafted with Graphite Design Tour AD 55 R1 flex at 58 grams. The original swing weight of the irons was C6. After reshafting, the SW is D0. I picked up distance and a significantly better dispersion. My question is what would happen if I reshafted with the same shaft but at 78 grams, not 58 and kept a D0 SW? Also, for the Tour AD shaft, the shaft profile is identical at 58, 68 and 78 grams. Shafts heavier than 78 show shaft profile changes. So, assuming same swingweight and shaft profle, how does shaft weight impact club performance? Thank you. Great video.
Great video. Very interesting. I saw the same thing when I changed to midsize grip and added head weight to balance it out to the same swing weight as b4. My miss became more pronounced and more right. 👍
I had a steel shaft in my driving iron then switched it to a graphite shaft because I'm getting older but felt to light so I put lead tape on the middle of the shaft and it felt a lot better.
Fascinating, am wondering how gripping up and down the shaft might change swing weight, too?
Good test, appreciate the effort. In my research I have found pros who play heavy swing weight, expected Bryson to be one. But he plays irons at over 500 grams but at high B to C2 swing weights.
Wow!
I’m older 66 and play c9, but experimenting myself going lower
Very consistent swing
You should replicate Brysons club and test against your gamer, but a weight lifting program may be needed first,
I couldn’t carry them that heavy. Lol
I just got a new driver that came in 1/4" short and 4 or 5 grams light on the head. Now I'm trying to figure out what I can do because I do like the head and I have an aftermarket shaft coming. Thanks for giving me some ideas.
Very interesting and goes to show that the money spent on RandD by the company that produce these clubs is pretty good but there are always ‘tweaks’ that can be made to improve performance based on individual swing.
Yeah to be honest I didn't really mention in the video that I think most OEM swingweights are too heavy for most, prob should have mentioned that 😂 just becuase drivers especially are getting so long and headweight changes haven't really been made to suit
Nice video. But adding weight in the head to the same driver combo would make the shaft play softer correct? The frequency would be lower because of the heavier head. And the opposite would be true of you make the head lighter? And changing the flex of the shaft will definitely change your contact points on the face during the testing?
Correct yes. Heavier head would make the shaft play softer and lighter head would make the shaft play stiffer. But in terms of moving strike point that would be very player dependant. Sometimes it doesn't matter what change I make a player will always hit it out the toe. But sometimes even small changes will move strike. So very player dependant.
How much effect do you think there was from the drastic changes between swing weights? I have to imagine that going from D5 to C5 or something similar is going to impact the results because it will take a few swings for your muscles to recalibrate.
And you mentioned fatigue...I'd also guess that your results in the later groups, especially, are a little suspect just because you're getting tired enough that your swing isn't as accurate as it would otherwise be.
Comparing clubhead speed (instead of ball speed) would tell quite a different story, if people were paying attention to your live hitting. Ball speed is too dependent on smash factor to make conclusions about swing weight.
Absolutely, but ultimately ball speed is the main factor in distance so whatever swingweight gives you max ball speed doesn't matter. Its all about the output, the input doesn't really matter as long as the result is better
So! I shorten my driver 1”1/4. And added jumbo grips! more weight on the grip affects the same right ??
probably moved the swing weight about 12 points? Haven’t hit with it yet, but with this logic , my driver now has a super light swing weight, and stiffer ( shorter shaft), if I compensate with some weight on the head 2gr for every point, I should add about 24gr, that should make it play about the same flex as before and should bring the swing weight up, right??
I do wish I was closer and could come in for a fittings. I’ve worked with several fitters and none of them ever even mentioned swing weight or trying different swing weights.
Most "fitters" are just guys who hand you differant clubs and hope like most people you buy the one that goes the furthest. 90% should not be calling themselves fitters.
Hi, super interesting video. I was looking to change my driver shaft and was wondering weather i should go for lighter grips if my shaft weight increases by 10g?
finding a grip that fitted the bill for the weight needed would probbaly put you in a grip you did not like.
What are your thoughts on swingweight and spin?
Great video, im thinking of shortening my driver shaft by 1 inch, would it be best to add 12g to the head, lighten my grip by 24g or maybe a combination of the 2 ?
I just tipped my driver and 3 wood by an inch.
I am thinking of adding some lead tape to the head and go with a lighter grip.
I already tried it with 8g of lead on the head. It is an improvement.
Next I am going to try the lighter grip too.
Keep in mind that adding 10 grams to the head will soften the shaft by roughly 1 flex.
Good day Ross.
Many thanks for the insight with regard to swing weight. As a fitter myself, there's one question that I've tried to solve over the years , and that is, what is the magical head weight required for optimum efficiency. As you well know momentum is a formula which is mass x velocity. However what is the optimum head weight for maximum distance versus a swing speed in the region of 110 mph. I don't mind your lengthy videos as the detail is obvious.
Thank you kindly
Hey Romano, thanks for the comment and I'm glad you enjoy the videos. Well I think that's a very very tough question to answer. Mainly because it will be different for everyone. Some people will lose swing speed when they add weight to the head and then others won't. In my opinion swing speed matters more than head weight for generating more ball speed. So the bigger question is where is the point of maximum club head speed and maximum head weight for you. As you saw in this test my highest ball speed of the day came from the lightest headweight and lightest overall weight. So I really think that the theory of adding more weight to the head creates more ball speed is incorrect for the high majority of golfers, including myself. On the positive side there won't be a huge difference in it either way. Maybe 2/3mph tops I'd say. So more worth worrying about strike and dispersion than speed tbh.
@EP Golf Studios
Hallo Ross
Many thanks for your reply and your valuable insight and time.
To be honest, I've conducted endless trials with regards to what constitutes this magical combination ratio between head weight and swing weight. I've watched all your videos on the subject and my heart is torn between your advice and that of the manufacturers who advocate different weight and swing weight combinations. However, as you rightly say, it's very much an individual thing. I own a Ping G425 LST driver playing at 45" using an Aldila Rogue shaft.
Head weight is 201g
Shaft weight is 70g
Swing weight is D3
weight is added or removed in either the head or butt to change a feel, that is the "theory". Its all individual because people respond differently to where they feel the weight, depending on the tempo and the release. What happen to you is predicable.
How will going from a 55g stiff stock shaft to a 76g stiff aftermarket shaft affect swing weights? Seems people swap out shafts all the time for either lighter or heavier ones.
Generally around 8/9 grams in the shaft makes around 1 swingweight difference. So if you went from 55 to 76 that would play around 2 swing weights heavier. The balance point of the shaft would also play a factor in that though.
Honest question. Why test on a simulated hole instead of a driving range? If the ball hits a slope or rough it can drastically change total distance and dispersion
Also, if D5 is your best swingweight for consistency, would you try a lighter build at same swingweight?
Yeah, it's more intresting to see a hole played but for testing it needs to be a flat driving range.
Thanks for reply! So currently playing 12* with said shaft. Shall i practice hitting up with 12* or lower degree of head, say, too 10.5, and practice with hitting up with that? Thanks
Buy yourself a cheap low spin 9 degree driver and learn to hit that 👍 if you can keep that in the air so it looks like a nice flight then you are hitting up enough.
I have a pretty short attention span and watch this entire video twice ha. You’re doing the kind of testing that I have thought about if I had all the equipment to perform. Very interesting stuff. I play Miura Irons and I’ve always found them to be built with a pretty heavy swing weight like D4 or D5. Is that because Miura heads are typically heavier than those from other manufacturers? I would like a lighter swing weight but not by adding additional weight in the handle which would raise the overall weight. Suggestion?
Same here, would really like an answer on this
you cant defy physics, so the only way is a lighter head weight and i doubt you want to drill weight out of your muira heads! you can somtimes drill the hozzle a little deeper, but that might get 2g 1 swign weight. You could also have a shaft pulled just to check weights have not beeing put in the head end of the staft to get it to d4/5 if they have you could have the weights removed.
Could shorten them a half inch and get you to d1 or d2 and then bend them 1* upright to compensate for the shortening of the club.
Yeah I’d probably look at shaft mainly, go lighter and maybe more CB to try and help get it down a little bit. As mentioned going shorter is really the only other option. Depending on where they were built they could have tip weights in, generally D4 is a standard swing weight for irons in a lot of places and will be built up to that, normally with a heavier shaft they come out around D4 anyway. Go down to around 90/100g shaft and that will drop down to D0/D1
Can you share information about how the shafts themselves contribute to overall swing weight? Are some shafts heavier in the butt vs toe? What would be a couple of shafts that are butt end heavy and a couple that are tip end heavy? Thanks
There are lots of “counter balanced” (butt-heavy) shafts out there. Ping Alta CB, Tensei pro orange and Hzrdus rdx smoke blue to name a few. Generally speaking, a 70 gram shaft will swing one swingweight point heavier than a 60 gram shaft of the same model but not necessarily.
Thank you for a great video. I think this is the best video I’ve ever seen on this subject. I was fitted for a driver nearly two years ago and I just don’t feel like it’s where it needs to be (dispersion wise) so I’ve been making some tweaks. My fitter encouraged me to keep ramping up my swing speed to maximize distance even though distance is not a top concern for me. Thanks again for the video.
Very interesting video. I play clubs that are currently D2 in swing weight with standard grips that are small for me. If I was to change the grip to mid size what will happen to my swing weight? I don’t want to lose the current D2 but I need to change the grip to mid size.
What grips do you currently have on?
They make midsize grips with standard weight. Just research the specs of the grips you have and the ones you’d like.
not in many grip options people genrally use though. @@ericl8821
Gerry Hogan, author of " The Hogan Manual of Human Performance: GOLF, 1992.
1...the headweight must be a weight that you are comfortable swinging, for you, at the length that you choose. Forget all the gobbledegook, this is your club, it must match you if you are going to have a long and happy relationship.
2...the headweight, the butt weight, the shaft weight and the grip weight will contribute to the swingweight.
3...the longer you have the shaft, the greater the s/w will be. It works out at approximately 6 s/w points to the inch. It also works out at about 7grams to the 1/2" in terms of effort required. Adding two inches to your current driver setup will take you from (say) D3 to E1 and the headweight 'effect' from (say) 200 grams to something like 7x4(1/2" ) 228 grams.
4...the (say) 6 iron head is 7 grams heavier than the 5 iron head and the shaft is 1/2" shorter, the extra weight being there to maintain the s/w balance. See 4 above.
5...the longer the shaft for any given head weight, the greater the potential for unwanted droop, flexing and twisting.
6...the larger the clubhead, ditto 5 above
7...the heavier the clubhead..ditto 5 above
8...the heavier and larger the clubhead..ditto 5 above.
9...the lighter the clubhead and shaft lower end, the greater the potential for head deceleration resulting from impact.
10..the lower the head speed at point of separation between ball and face, the slower the ball leaves the clubface.
11..the point that everyone misses; while you may be a super human athlete and you are completely satisfied that you can swing your driver at 2" longer for the same head weight, on the same shaft, you still have to contend with the effects that MUST arise on that shaft. Because you can swing it has no direct bearing on how the shaft copes with it. You need to remember that.
12..In my opinion; the Nunchuk shaft is certainly among the stiffest, strongest, most droop and twist resistant shafts ever made, even it cannot tolerate a 200gram driver head at 45" and longer. If you swing it slow enough, smoothly enough, yes but under pressures of play and/ or adverse weather conditions you will give it a little push and a grab and suffer the consequences.
13..the only shaft that I know of that can tolerate a 200 gram head at 45" with complete indifference to that weight and length is the "father of Nunchuk" as somebody in this thread called it, the original 21AD extra stiff shaft with the .370" (9.5mm) tip. But that is another story!
14.. I would set the finished shaft length @ 44". That gives you a fundamental basis to work from. I would be opting for a grip weight of around 50-52grams first up, you can always re- grip with jumbos, whatever, at a later time.That gives you your shaft length and grip weight and headweight will give you s/w. Job done!
15..At 44" with a 50gram grip a headweight of approx 207-208grams should net you a sw of D3. Here is the easy way. I would cram the fiber wadding in and take the headweight up to 205grams. I would then check s/w by gripping the shaft and slipping it into the hosel and check s/w. Alternately use a thin rubber band and attach grip to shaft end (parallel) so that ring cap is level with shaft end.
16..This gives you thee alternatives for finishing the club. (a)..bond everything as is and then lead tape afterwards to increased headweight, if necessary. (b)..bond club t finish but use a bond/glue that breaks down easily under heat with a shaft extractor. You can then test hit the club and, if you want more head weight, pop the shaft out and add more stuffing. The third possibility is to bond with soft bond/ glue, as mentioned, then use lead tape to bring up final weight that suits you under actual testing. Pop head of later, measure head weight carefully, remove lead tape and add stuffing. The last is my own preferred method.
hello mate, can a heavy swing weight in your irons cause a lot of fat shots? been fitted with D2 in my 5-8I and D3 9 and PW, and have been hitting it fat and behind the ball ever since i got these irons
D2 isnt heavy at all. (Irons stock are usually D0/D2) I would guess that you have a different shaft than before and am now strugling to time the release at the bottom of the swing due to how the new shaft loads and releases (bends) i guess they were fine at the fitting but you were hitting off a matt.
What Swing weight for longer distance.. Recomended.
To be honest it will be different for everyone. Really you want the heaviest head weight that you can move the fastest. At some point adding too much weight you will start to lose speed and that's where you stop. For most people generally going lighter will create more club speed which will ultimately mean more ball speed. So for me if I wanted to max out potential distance I'd probably go around C9.
@@epgolfstudios ok.. What effect if my driver SW D5.. I use cobra amp.. Shaft length 45..this SW good for me.. But i want to more distance..what I change to C9 for distance n consistensi.
Hi. I've just replaced my grips from standard lamkins to midsize So adding around 12g to handle. My irons seem ok, but my driver is spinning more, would changing the weights in the head to add more to the head help with that ?
Ha you sort of answered my question in the vid. Should of finished watching before asking 😂
just slap some leadtape on till you find what works and then try to find weights that would mimic that if you dont like the tape.
can a driver be too light in weight?
Definitely. If your tempo is too quick you probably just need a heavier shaft
I have always struck the ball with the driver, with a negative AOA, so thought, " higher loft and low sin low launch shaft! Although it's very easy to control, and always in the fairway ( which I'm happy with btw) I still feel I'm leaving yards out there! I swing around 96,97 mph. And carry around 230. I have no idea what the seing weight is! And my club pro seems dismissive of that value! I see the guys on and around RUclips getting more distance than me, hitting off tge shelf clubs, with same speed yet grabbing additional yardage, quote , the average golfer!!! Same speed l, 10 yards min further mainly in fairway! HELP!😂
A lot of that will be angle of attack for sure. Hitting down is just a HUGE killer for distance. If you're looking to increase carry you need to start there. Swingweight may help increase speed a little and strike consistency but nothing will gain many yards if you're still hitting down on it 👍
Do the same principles apply with irons?
Yes for sure. Everthing with driver is just amplified more so than with irons but the base principles will be the same
I wonder what tipping and length does to swingweight I had the tr red 6s at 44.75 shaft length and felt to easy to load and tip felt very loose so I got it tipped 1/4 of an inch post build and now it feels far to stiff and I can’t load it at all. Prob have to pop down in the new year and get fitted as I’m not messing about with a ventus shaft again as there not cheap
Well I guess when you mean tipping you mean you are tipping an already built club? And therefore making it shorter in playing length? Rather than when building a raw club tipping wouldn't effect final playing length.
Tipping 1/4" would make it roughly 1.5 swingweights lighter, so probably noticeable but not huge.
Tipping 1/4" will make the shaft play around 1/6th of a flex stiffer. So not a huge difference.
Both together would compound to make more of a difference overall.
You could add weight back into the head which would make the shaft play softer and bring back some feeling to the head.
I think on the whole doing that would be noticeable but it surprises me that you say it made it far too stiff. You must be very sensitive to flex changes.
I personally think don't mess around with tipping on driver shafts, just get fit for the right shaft from the off.
So many shafts are more than stable enough for all golfers. Unless you are Bryson and need a Rebar 😂 but even then there are shafts that exist that are stiff enough without having to mess around with it.
So yes you are right just get fitted and then you know it will be all good 👍
But I do have a video on tipping too.
@@epgolfstudios cheers for the advice I’ll prob try and get down in the new year and get driver setup dialled in. Yeah was post build I got it tipped . Was clearing 250 carry 280 total before I messed with it but looked a bit spinny and tip felt loose and head lagged behind abit now I can’t get anywhere near that and tip feels like it doesn’t move at all prob length change has changed my swing speed and delivery on top of what you said wish I left it alone tbh
@@stevethepigeon7159 Seems like the combination of all those things threw off your natural timing. I've seen quite a few testimonies of guys tweaking driver shorter and shorter and then suddenly it's unplayable. Whatever happened, life is too short to play too-spinny drivers when there are many low spin driver and ball options. Good luck.
@@lkae4 I’ll get there. Deffo gona get a fitting at some point.
I had a driving iron that i had built and did not like the KBS TGI 95 stiff shaft i had fitted. I had an old hybrid iron that had a aldilla 65 reg in that felt pretty whippy, so i though id pull it and stick it in the driving iron butas i said it was a whippy REG, so i tipp the end 1" 1/2 stiffness. so should play REG+ I was really suprise how (ened witht he same swing weights) all that whippyness is gone, it feels like a soli stiff not not a reg+ @@lkae4
statistically indistinguishable. except for launch angle, which is 1 standard deviation above normal but you need 10 swing weights to see this. still does not pass the statistical test as being different. but probably will be if you go to 15 or 20 swing weights off. this will never happen.
GC4 gives you the standard deviation. what you do is you take mean (the big number), and then use the sd (the small number) as a range. in statistics, its 2sd's off the mean before we even consider a datapoint as statistically significant. so for D1 ball speed it is 166+-2.4, this is where 95% of strikes are expected to land in with lower and higher values being outliers. if you compare this to C1 it is 165.5+-4. clearly these two distributions are well overlapping and there is honestly no difference except an imagined one.
what does this mean? it means the values you are displaying are not the correct values to focus on--the data is saying ball speed, launch angle, spin, side angle, path, carry and total are all unaffected by swing weight. any difference you might interpret from it is just unsupported by the data shown. if swing weight affects control then you should be plotting strike point deviation against swing weight. for this to be proven there must be a clear trend in V impact and/or H impact against swing weight, or at least a trend in the sd of these values against swing weight. at least there may be a chance that a correlation exists here. but you need to show the data, otherwise it is all just feels and GC4 is irrelevant.
Really the biggest thing I see in fits is swingweight affecting directional miss and ability to square the face consistently. But that's going to be different for every golfer. Same as the swing speed / ball speed will be completely different for every golfer. This data for me is pretty irrelevant as im always just going to play the swingweight that feels the most comfortable to me. Which in fairness has changed over time. In terms of strike I think that would be a pretty impossible stat to track and ensure it's accurate. You'd need such a huge data set to really distinguish if there's any difference and it would be different for every golfer so really it's a bit of an irrelevant test. you'd either get an average golfer who would hit it all of the face with any swingweight, or a very good golfer who after a handful of swings would figure it out and hit them all pretty well. So generally I think strike isn't really the biggest one to focus on. It would be face to path and miss reduction.
What name/kind of weight did you add to the butt of the club
It's a grip called switchgrips. They have a thread in the end and they provide different weights that you can put in
So basically, club weight doesn't matter. Got it.
Club weight definitely does matter
some people are able to swing very different clubs the same. they adapt well, most of us cant and need all the help we can get having a club built to our sweetspot.
40 minutes to explain swing weight? It’s the distribution of weight throughout the club!
Yes sir 🙌🙌👌
Man, you must have been a terrible student. The simplest explanation is always best for the simplest people. Nuance is reserved for those capable of maintaining focus for more than 5 minutes at a time! 😂
too long
I do hit it quite long yes
@@epgolfstudios Haha yes! I enjoyed the video