@@epgolfstudios the gap thru 7 iron of my 921 forge Mizuno , i hit just fine... its the long irons, 4, 5,6 is where you lose important distance compared to my old TaylorMade m6's--- which is why some pros use irons with more forgiveness in their long irons.
Love this mid handicapper guy. Didnt talk too much or try and take over the show. Just did his thing and was consistent with it. Thanks mate, loved the video!
Hope you and all the others don't mind if I make a third comment. It is long, but it's all your fault EPGS. (Can't find your name.) Your excellent test here is a really valuable one for those of us who make up the largest number of golfers and it deals with a dilemma many of us face: stick with our blades or change to game improvement irons? I just had to do the same comparison. I will be 83 this June, have played golf for over 60 years, have a 16-17 handicap these days playing the 5800-6200 tees, have played forged blades for decades and still do. 35 years ago in Nairobi, Kenya, which is at 6000 feet, I used to hit a 9 iron 150. Back here in the US east coast, I hit my 34 degree lofted 7 iron 150 yards 25 years ago. Then it became my 140 yard club. And now it is my 130 yard club based on the indoor bays at my local PGA Super Store with Foresight GCHawk overhead launch monitors. Last year to help with swing speed I had a second set of the same forged blades (the pro at my range has boxes of unhit ones from an experiment some years ago) built with much lighter shafts, Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 stiff that are 87.5 grams versus my original set with Royal Prestige Rifle Lite 120 gram stiff shafts (the original Kim Braly shafts before True Temper bought out Royal and Kim went on to found KBS). But those launch monitors don't give you club swing speed, just ball speed. And recently, coming back from the winter layoff and some right knee issues with age related wear and tear on the meniscus, I have been very frustrated from getting shorter carry together with lower peak height and a descent angle of around 38 instead of the low to mid 40s you need to get the ball to stop. So your video prompted me to sign up for a quick lesson with the pro in the fitting studio that uses Trackman. (Note that Trackman gives more accurate data than the overhead Foresight GCHawk.} He did exactly what you did here. Had me hit my 7 iron, then handed me a Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal Pro head with a Nippon NS Pro 950GH Neo 94.5 gram regular flex shaft. Well, I found out that my swing speed is now just 70-71 mph with my 7 iron. Old father time. Three years ago in a Trackman fitting with the Mizuno MP-33s I had then it was 74.8 with a DG S300 stiff shaft. Ball speed 100.6, smash 1.34, attack angle 1.4, launch 22.9, spin 5370, height 81, carry 137.3, descent angle 46.3, total 146.4. Now, with the lighter shaft, on a perfect strike, -0 impact offset, -1mm down, I had club speed 70.9, ball speed 95.5, smash 1.35, attack angle 0.2, launch 22.2, spin 5149, height 71, carry 129.5, descent angle 44.2, total 139.8. All in all, a good shot. With the JPX 923 and 950GH Neo shaft, on a strike 2mm toe, 4mm up, I had club speed 69.9, ball speed 100.1, smash 1.43, attack angle -1.8, launch 18.6, spin 4511, height 63, carry 138.9, descent angle 39.4, total 153.3. The pro said there you go, ten more yards. You should replace your blades with something like the JPX 923. Sounds great. BUT WAIT, WAIT. The JPX 923 7 iron has a launch angle of 30 degrees. That is 1 degree stronger than my forged blade 6 iron. So of course it went further. And look at the key data: 4511 spin, 63 feet peak, 39.4 degrees descent, 14.4 yards run. With my forged blade 7 iron I may have been shorter, but got 5149 spin, 71 feet peak, 44.1 degrees descent, 10.3 run. I have gotten even less run on other shots. So my forged blade 7 iron will stop on the green when the JPX923 will run off. These numbers also show you that with a swing speed of 70 mph, a 31 degree 6 iron is going to have a borderline descent angle and probably should be your longest iron. Last year I acquired a 24 degree 9 wood to replace my 5 iron, and a 21 degree 7 wood to replace my 4 iron and 3 iron. Allows me to carry 4 wedges. So even being an old codger with a low swing speed of just 70 mph (which I am sure I can improve with practice as the season proceeds and I can get out on the course), I see no real advantage to playing a game improvement iron, and no need to spend all that money. In case you are curious, my forged blades are Chicago Classics. They were designed and produced by Bob Adams, who was formerly the Director of Tour Operations and then of Production for MacGregor Golf. He and a partner had their own small company from 1987-95 and did forgings in Taiwan. So you can see I am playing maybe 30 year old designs. They look nearly identical to the Mizuno MP-33s I once had. The entire original set, new and unhit, built by the pro at my range, 3 iron through SW, cost me just $100, yes $100 not a typo. The second set, 3 through 9, also built by the pro at my range, cost me under $400.
Not completely sold on club fitting yet. If I'm short, next time I simply use more club. It's been my experience that score improvement has come from greater pitching and putting, not getting 10 or 20 more yards from my shots. Also, c hanging balls can help you get a higher launch angle- pro v1 x for example. I heard blades give you better feed navk - not sure I really need that.
I played with a set of Wilson blades when I started golf (because CBs hadn't been invented yet). A miss-hit left your fingers tingling and your bones vibrating - a very unpleasant sensation. I transitioned to CBs early on and have played them ever since. This year I decided I wanted new clubs and fell in love with the Wilson Staff models. As a senior 10-handicapper, I expected I would play the CBs (and they are gorgeous) but I struck the blades better and more consistently in the mid and short irons and have ended up with a blended set. During fitting, I did hit the odd miss-hit with the blades, but they felt and performed no worse than a miss-hit with the CBs. Modern blades are most definitely different to their ancestors.
I agree with this comment. I think compare apples to apples. I would like to see a comparison of 9 to a 7 iron instead of a 7 to a 7. By the way, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR CHANNEL AND THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE!
As a 15 handicap, I have always found a nice blade to feel and fly better. It is hard to look at a chunky iron and my friends have always assumed I’m a snob. Not true. If an iron plays well, I like it. Interesting!
@@rileyshane78 I can understand your point and if I competed, I would follow that advice. Ultimately, I play for fun and I really enjoy the blades sometimes. I have an entire garage full of different clubs and try them all. I’m simply a golf enthusiast.
How the hell can you know what the ball striking is like based on a players handicap? 15 handicap probably has quite good ball striking they might just be shit off the tee and around the greens Hit the irons that work for you and make you feel comfortable it's got absolutely nothing to do with handicap providing you're not a bad golfer If you're athletic with good power and a reasonable swing you probably don't need any irons that help you with distance
@rileyshane78 great maybe not but good or above average, alot It's usually a small swing mechanic issue and alot of the time less forgiving clubs give you more feedback to tell you what you're actually doing wrong Best thing to do is not buy equipment to fix your issues, it's to actually analyse your swing and find out why the issues are happening
Great video. I’m a 10 handicap and have blades in the wedges down to 8 iron, then 7 & 6 irons are a shallow cavity with the 3-5 being hybrids. At 59 I need a little help but blades for the scoring clubs can’t be beaten. Swapped into graphite shafts a couple of years ago and that was a great help too. If you go for a fitting trust your fitter and park the preconceptions.
100%. The lack of awareness around iron lofts and what that can mean for how they perform for you is crazy. That's why we try to do videos like this just to make people be a bit more aware of what they are buying and to make sure it is definitely right for them 👌
I had game improvement irons and players style irons and had similar results, but being a senior who's lost some distance, I took the middle ground and got players distance irons.
A very interesting comparison in “forgiveness” such an overused term in golf. Ross is an excellent fitter, way above the level of your normal club pro. I did 2 x 5 hour round trips to see Ross for my full bag fitting. Couldn’t be happier. Played my first round with my new irons and have never hit my clubs so well. Highly recommended
Totally agree with you Ross. Given the Darkspeed is effectively a 5 iron loft, it would have been good to get Steve to hit a 5 iron in the blade as well and compare those shots to the Darkspeed 7 iron.
Thanks Cameron. Yeah it would be, but I would never tell him to play the blade in the 5 irons, well tbh I wouldn't tell him to play the blades at all, but with the 5 being an inch longer and having a lighter head weight it just becomes an unfair comparison to me
@@epgolfstudios yeah I guess it’s not quite “apples vs apples”. But to your point about the Darkspeed 7 iron having a larger dispersion circle than the blade, I think that is because basically he’s hitting a 5 iron. It would have been interesting to see if actually hitting a 5 iron blade (even with a longer shaft) the dispersion circles were then more similar. I expect they would be. Question for you: do you find many golfers with such high spin that do benefit from strong lofted GI irons? I mean, it feels like if you are too slow they won’t reach good peak heights & will have low descent angles, and if you’re fast enough to generate better height and descent angles they just go too far and then you have major gapping issues at the bottom of your bag. So do they really suit many (any?) golfers at all?
I agree. The spin, launch and other numbers would give a real comparison. A more lofted club like a blade 7 34 degree is much easier to hit than a 5 iron loft. Plus spin is so much higher on weaker clubs
How can you fairly compare dispersion when you're comparing clubs that go different distances? Doesn't matter if you're hitting a blade if you're going to compare a club that goes 140 vs one that goes 160, the 160 club will always have a bigger dispersion.
As a mid-handicap player who is in the process of going from a CB blade to the Titleist T200....I have only hit the T200's on the simulator, but the launch, peak height and descent angle are so much better for a given distance. I'm hitting the T200's about 1 club longer....so for a 155 yard approach I'm hitting 8 iron instead of 7. The peak height is significantly higher with the T200 and so the descent angle is better, and the spin is not all that different. I think a proper comparison isn't hitting 7 iron vs 7 iron, it would be more hitting a 150 shot with whatever club you'd use in the given set. This would give a better comparison of how the clubs will play on course. I swing about 80mph with 7 iron plus or minus and am carrying it ~165 in the T200. It would be interesting to see in a test of a "blade" type of club to a players distance iron like the T200 or the P790 or Mizuno Pro 245 and have the mid-handicap player hit 150 yard shots with both sets instead of comparing 7 irons. I'd be curious to see if the results are the same as what I'm seeing, or if I'm some kind of anomaly.
This is a massive eye opener. I’ve always been scared to use anything but progression irons. Used my friends MB irons after watching this video and now I’m spoiled 😂. Will be booking in a fitting shortly. Thank you so much keep up the good work!
Went from game improvement irons to a blended set. Blades from PW to 7i. Small cavity from 6 to 4i. My game improved so much. Totally counter intuitive.
Have the same experience. Mid-handicapper (15), not super fast but semi decent swing, and recently got fitted. Tried all the game improvement clubs (G430 etc etc); went miles, but very low spinning and low flight. Reluctantly I tried the Apex Pro (24) the fitter gave me. The small size and thinner top line looked scary, but it was rather easy to hit, forgiving and the flight and numbers (incl. distance) was so much better. Plus the sound and feel .... jeez....Ok, Apex Pro are player distance irons, and not pure blades like the CB or MB (almost wished I tried them too) but I agree with the point of this video. Love the channel!
I switched from game improvement irons in regular flex shafts (TM R7xd S-5) to a combo set (Haywood Golf PW-7 MB, 6-4 CB) with DG S300 shafts and I’ve dropped 4 strokes in a year off my handicap (18.7-14.6). Play what makes you feel confident, it’ll make you play better
I was fitted in to a combo set of Apex Pro for 5-7 and Apex CB for the 8-PW. I found my ball striking and direction was so much better than the TM Stealths I was using previously. As you also pointed out, trying to hold a green was a nightmare with the Stealths. My new irons stop on dime.
Kind of, but not in the same way as the really chunky Stealths, or other game improvement irons. Also, my irons into greens are with the CB in 8-PW, so I avoid those really hot shots into the green. @@CharlotteK2008
@@CharlotteK2008apex pros are Much more like p770’s, not anywhere near a GI iron. Tour pros use apex pro’s and p770’s, which are both hollowbody (tiger uses the 3)
Earned a subscriber with this one! I have heard so much "why'd you buy those, you'll never be able to hit them" when I picked up my Titleist CB's (3-PW). My recent gapping session on the GCquad showed my average 7i as 156 carry, 6500 spin, 19 degree launch, 46 degree landing, peak height 91'. The ultimate benefit they have provided is the instant feedback where as GI clubs feel dead in my hands. I don't feel that they punish me on poor strikes with anything other than a bit of lost distance which is fine.
Cool test. My all time favs were Mizuno MP14s back in the day and with a 13-16hcp back then, I think blades teach you to make better contact. Modern hollow bodies are game changers though, particularly as age takes away clubbed speed, and my hcp ranges 9-12 now. Really enjoyed this test.
Ok, after watching, I stand corrected. He does have enough swing speed to hit the forged blades. Got decent distance, got great descent angles, and best of all he kept it on the green with tight vertical and horizontal dispersion. Take the blades and run. If you were doing a full fitting you might still find that perhaps a cavity back would give an extra 5 yards while retaining descent angle and decide that was optimal. But he proved he can play -- and enjoy -- the forged blades. Great to see. By the way, speaking of lofts, the original Mizunos had a 7 iron loft of 37 degrees. Yes, 37, you can look it up in the history they provide of when every iron was released and for how long. Thanks for a great video.
I just returned to golf about 2 years ago after an almost 20yr break.. currently hitting Ping's g425's with 105-stiff steel.. went and got fitted.. tried Pings, Mizu's, TaylorMade, etc and of course a whole host of shafts.. I played Mizu's MP30 blades back in my younger days but those days a LONG gone... i actually wound up selecting the DarkSpeed irons with kbs pgi 85 stiff shafts. Went with 6i-GW as I don't ever hit my 5i and don't even carry a 3i or 4i.. have hybrids instead (and yes love the hybrids) I have a naturally high ball flight and with irons i rarely get much rollout so when i hit greens the ball sticks. Mostly play 5800-6400yr courses and i'm usually a Driver and short iron into the green (Driver avg is 250 but take out some bad/short ones.. i'm about 260+).. I'll say I really loved the feel & sound of the DarkSpeeds and with that shaft combo i was hitting consistently online/straight and carry about 170+. (oh my D/3w are both Cobra's too Aero Jet LS set at 9-degree and DarkSpeed 3w and KingTech hybrib. current wedges are Lazrus (bought on a whim just to try.. and honestly.. they are pretty dang good. a firm feel but still nice) If i weren't 60 i prob would've gone for a more players club but i think i'll like my setup. last few rounds - kept with Golf Pad Tags for stats.. 85, 83, 82, 83, 79.... something clicked in July w/the 79.. because before that i was 85-95.. maybe it's finally coming back to me :)
Great video, but to be honest , it’s about the distance you want to hit, so shouldn’t you be comparing a blade 7 iron to the game improvement 9 iron, thanks for the videos
I own a pair of both blades and cavity backs. The blades make this click sound that I find very rewarding when I hit them well. If I hit the blades bad it can sting your hands though. I get the impression the blade technology hasn’t changed much over the years but CBs are constantly being re-engineered. Because a modern blade doesn’t look that much different from 10 years ago but a CB looks a lot different.
Just swapped out my old callaway GIs for my first set of forged irons which are a cobra CB/MB set. I was a little nervous to buy them without hitting a set first, but after a month its been one of the best decisions ive ever made. Even though the lofts are higher, old 7 iron = new 6 iron, ive found that ive actually gained a club in distance with the new irons (new 7 iron goes as far as old 6 iron). I think i focus on impact more since it matters a little more which is giving higher % of pure strikes. I dont really care about distance since i have enough to be dangerous, its all about precision for me. They fly more consistant and distances are more consistant all else being equal. Long story short, for anyone out there in the 10-20 handicap range that is thinking about GI vs forged: defiantely give them a try with a pro. You may be surprised to find they are more forgiving than you think and the trade offs favor forged, at least for me. Also, nothing beats the amazing sound and feel of a pured forged iron! Its addicting
I've gone from 50 to 27 almost overnight, switching from Ping G425 irons to P790s. Not quite a blade but conventional wisdom still says I shouldn't have picked them as a high handicap. The distance is much more consistent & I've improved ball striking with some feedback from strikes. For some reason the thinner sole suits my swing, fat shots are very rare. Any handicap should use what works for them
I started with m4 irons and I was a high handicap, I then moved to p770’s and achieved higher mid handicap. Now I play the p7mb’s p-3 iron and my handicap is 11.3, I absolutely love blades and recommend them to everybody.
Great video!!! Proves that people need to go to real fitters not the big golf stores! Knew a guy that played game improvement irons but only used the pw, 8 iron and 5 iron
I got fit for irons at club champion last year, I'm an 18 handicap, and figured something like a Cobra King Tour or a T100s would be best for me, was shocked when I got fit into these same MBs. Has the most consistent strike pattern, and best flights compared to Ping i230, p790, p770, etc. cool to see this workout with someone similar
Interesting, i am the opposite. I’ve been single figures for 50 years, plus handicap in my youth. I always played blades, then progressives, MB 3-6 iron, blades 7-wedges. Had a medical situation which dramatically changed my swing speed and muscle memory, worked hard on fitness and swing muscle memory, now swing it okay, but distance compromised, so game improvement clubs give me great assistance. ironically i now swing 7 iron 84 mph 140 efficiency, my Callaway Apex irons carry 155, which suits me perfectly, tried blades, hit the ball 135 carry. I hold the green well with 7 iron, longer than that i use hybrids, they fly and stop on a sixpence, so new lofts not an issue. This video graphically demonstrates a good fitting session and or gapping session will enable you better understand your personal options. I would advocate, good lessons, read Hogan and practice, these will give you the results to improve your game.
So, not enough spin with the 7 iron, and hitting it too far,....So use the 8 iron. The manufactures are making these clubs for a reason. The real comparison would have been to use the bladed 5 iron.
That comment literally makes zero sense 😂 it's a SET of irons, the whole way through they need to be as optimised for you as possible, if the 7 iron and below have terrible performance then how does that make sense. Yeah you could just hit the 8 iron but what about when he has a shot that needs the 7 iron, 6 iron, etc. Ball flight is terrible and miss will be worse....plus this was never really planned as a test of distance or ball flight, it was a mid handicapper testing a blade for forgiveness against a super game improvement iron. And as we saw, not as much difference as people will expect on mishits. Blade 5 iron would not be a fair comparison, head weight is lighter, shaft length is much longer. As I said in the test in neither of these sets would Steve be playing the 5 iron. Really in a fitting obviously he wouldn't end up with either set. There would be a nice middle ground.
Absolutely right a lot don't. But generally speaking it's not for height, as most of them have plenty of speed which translates to height with no issue. It would be more to optimise ball speed, gapping, spin reduction at times, as long irons spin lots of grass so a 4 iron blade can spin a huge amount which is unnecessary for some players.
@@epgolfstudios Of course it makes sense. If your average mid to high handicapper has 180 yards to the pin, he has a way better chance of hitting the game improvement 7 iron, rather than a bladed 5 iron. If you are a good, consistent ball striker, (with consistent yardages) then what you say makes perfect sense, but for your average mid to high handicapper (who struggle for distance and ball striking) the object is just to reach the green in two, and if they can achieve that by hitting the shorter 7 iron, then it's beneficial. That's why the manufactures are making them.
@@thewatchman6074 Agreed. But he wouldn't be in a bladed 5 iron anyway. My point isn't that he should be using blades, it's that the game improvement set on a whole is far from the best set up for most golfers, definitely for Steve. Even if he had to go to a 6 or 5 hybrid to hit that distance that would be a lot better than a game improvement 6 or 7 iron. Way more launch, more spin, more control, and more forgiving.
Great video! I used to think cast game improvement irons were more forgiving but after picking up a set of used forged mizunos I feel it’s actually the opposite. I hit the mizunos higher and straighter compared to my AP1’s.. Also the feel and sound is so much better
The game Improvement Irons seem like a much better fit for the player that struggles with high spin and a high weak flight. If the tester struggled with a slice the Darkspeed irons might have helped more. I found the same thing as the tester. Currently playing blades for similar reasons. I draw the ball and hit down on it. The additional loft and spin helps me launch the ball and get a better descent angle. Had a similar experience when I was playing the Titleist AP3 irons. They went too far, spun too low and had trouble holding greens. Also had to play 5 wedges. One thing people don’t pay enough attention to is the turf interaction. The thinner sole of the blades gets through the turf better for me. The wider sole of game improvement irons caused me to have more thin strikes.
I loved this video- a topic I don’t see many people being willing to take on! I think a really interesting one would be breaking down the different “elements” of forgiveness tech (low/deep CG, wide sole, hollow body, strong lofts, etc) and how they impact ball flight and striking. I feel like forgiveness as a concept is so misunderstood and oversimplified and leads to lots of players playing the wrong clubs because they blanket believe that they do or do not “need forgiveness.”
I started with a borrowed set of Mizuno MP63 - this meant I needed to concentrate more on strike. I just loved the buttery feel on the good shots. I now play with forged cavity bkack players distance irons. I tried game improvement irons as a rental set and truly struggled. I never believed that your handicap indicated which clubs to use. Granted the longer itons need more speed!!
This is why I went to a combo set with more traditional lofting, I was hitting my forged Tec hollow body 8 iron 180yds with under 5k rpm. I went to Takomos and now my MB 8 iron carries about 165yds at 7400rpm.
Great info! I've played almost every style of club, from 1960s MBs, to cleveland launcher "hyrons", and I still shoot around the same scores regardless. Occsional shot improvement would be a more accurate name than 'game improvement' imho. The differences just don't seem to be as massive as the marketing would suggest. I'm back to using my old Hogan Ft worth 15 irons, mainly because they have a consistent 4 degrees of loft change between clubs and that gives me consistent gaps. I have them from 24 degrees down to 56. I sub in a 24 degree hybrid to get a bit more launch, funnily enough it goes the same distance as the 24 degree iron, just flies a little higher.
I started playing mixed blades at around 18 hcp. They got some offset at the long end beside beong cavity-muscle backs from 6 iron upwards. Since then cut-muscle and pure muscle backs. However I got tendency to hit too much down on the ball with speed. 6-iron chs used to top at 102 mph back in those days. What comes to my mind with the manequin, I would think he’d benefit from light-weighted flighted, low-kick shafts getting the spin little bit up or at least launch the Darkspeeds higher as they are designed to. Yet the strikes were pretty eqal, finding the sweet spot more often with both clubs would make a huge difference. My current numbers with 7-iron (traditional lofts forged blades) are about: - Spin at and around 6000 rpm, (+/-200) - CHS 89-92, - SF 1.35…1.38 - Carry 148 m - Total 155…160 m But as said, I hit it down a lot, at least the same as Tour avg in Trackman charts and have a pretty heavy Stiff+ shafts, which I have dialed down from the X-Stiffs I sed to play, when younger.
I find this interesting. As longer irons are typically “harder” to hit, it looks like you could do a set where you go more traditional lofts in your scoring clubs, P, 9, 8, 7. Then go with 9, 8, 7 iron in the game improvement category. That way your gapping stays pretty consistent and you are using shorter, more confidence inspiring clubs as a replacement for a traditional top end of your bag. I had never considered that as an option before now. Great video.
as an 18 handicap, this is really interesting. i've been looking at game improvement irons, actually the darkspeed, and the lofts put me off a lot. i think i'll stick with my mizunos for a while longer, until i'm comfortable with something like the MB!
I started golf at 29 got a set of Wilson Sam Snead blue ridge blade irons from my uncle. They hurt your fingers when you didn’t hit them out the centre. I’m playing taylormade p790 2019 irons now so much more forgiving. Treated myself to some tiger wood Nike blades love hitting them and maybe I might be more consistent with them. Love your channel 😊
I’ve played golf since I was a kid but never really got into it. Now at 35 fully addicted for a little over a year. Been playing some ping GI irons. They are gigantic but now that I’m really trying to work on my swing - over the winter and this season - I’m realizing I have no idea when I’m striking the ball well because I can’t feel anything. Going to go out and buy some old blades to play with for a while.
Great video and really interesting. I would like to see how he would do with either players distance or cavity back vs the muscle back. I like the idea of mixing sets with more help in the longer irons and then less in the lower irons and mbs for wedges.
This is such a good point. The OEMs are trying to make a “7” iron that goes as far as possible, and unfortunately the customers like it. The high launch irons ( low COG, higher lofts) is probably a better idea.
The customers only like it because the salesman doesn't fully explain what the tradeoffs are, essentially just to try and sell them a set of irons. And most of the time it isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong for a very specific player these irons will be great. But for most they won't be.
@@epgolfstudios The golf industry doesn’t want the public playing blades /musclebacks ,it’s not profitable,there’s very little between one model to another or year to year ,they like to sell nice shiny colourful cavity’s with silly names to get players to change irons every couple of years
Subscriber here. Thank you for your videos. I enjoy them. - They just need to start renumbering the clubs for a particular range of loft. I have the Mizuno JPX 923 and my 7 iron (28.5°) should actually have a 6 on it. The PW is only 42.5°.
Having watched other club comparison videos I'm not so surprised of the outcome between blades and game improvement irons. Steve has a nice swing for a 16 handicap. I would guess something in between a blade and dark speed like Mizuno JPX forged or pro 425 would be good clubs where the lofts are not jacked up but still give a bit of help in launch and forgiveness on off centre hits. Thanks for the video.
I started playing mixed blades at around 18 hcp. They got some offset at the long end beside being cavity-muscle backs from 6 iron upwards and flighted shafts, which were frequency matched rather than with the old school swing weihgt scale. Since then cut-muscle and pure muscle backs. However I got tendency to hit too much down on the ball with speed. 6-iron chs used to top at 102 mph back in those days. What comes to my mind with the manequin, I would think he’d benefit from light-weighted flighted, low-kick shafts getting the spin little bit up or at least launch the Darkspeeds higher as they are designed to. Yet the strikes were pretty eqal, finding the sweet spot more often with both clubs would make a huge difference. My current numbers with 7-iron (traditional lofts forged blades) are about: - Spin at and around 6000 rpm, (+/-200) - CHS 89-92, - SF 1.35…1.38 - Carry 148 m - Total 155…160 m But as said, I hit it down a lot, at least the same as Tour avg in Trackman charts and have a pretty heavy Stiff+ shafts, which I have dialed down from the X-Stiffs I sed to play, when younger. An have put in some work during the last 15-20 years and now play off index 2.6.
From my experience blades are over rated as too hard to play for mid handicappers, specially the modern. But then again, if a player cannot find the center every so often, then a larger head with perimeter weighting and some tech is a smart and better choice.
I went from ping i500 to cobra speedzone sgi irons this year. Will be very interesting to see the difference. I’m around 6-8hcp. The ping were great at sweetspot but so short at slight misshits
I just got got into MB’s up to 8i. What’s interesting is that I am coming from game improvers. My swing speed with mid irons hovers around 95mph +/-2mph. What I’ve noticed with the game improvement clubs is the spin and front to back dispersion was just too unpredictable. Draws could easily total out 200-210 yards, fades would be like 170-180 and the club heads were so damn big that it’s near impossible to visualize your intended shot shape or exactly where the sweet spot is. Also bringing ball flight down with my old clubs was just more work then it needed to be. They serve a purpose for people looking to have fun on course. Blades and CB players irons are not for everyone… certainly not slow speed players or ones that are all over the face of the club, that said, it’s much easier to score with blades and CB’s then game improvement clubs because they’re way more predictable
Interesting! The loft diff def helps explain why I couldn’t hit my 4 iron and had to go with a hybrid. 5 iron is hit or miss but been plying it like a hybrid and has been better. I have a slow swing speed so knowing my 4i is basically a 2 iron is nuts
I currently have old cavity back irons -36deg 7i with wide soles. Back in the 70s/80s I played blades (of course) ..Never again! But my favourite clubs were the Titleist DCIs I got in the early 90s. I was happy playing them until about 15 years ago. That 'something in between' looked good but didn't hurt on those bloody miss hits 👌
I love this channel. The equipment reviews are good. I like the quality but the common sense takes and comments are great. I like this one because ive had this opinion of forgiving clubs for awhile. For example i like to have distance drop off on miss hits with driver to help keep it in play. Of course i like directional forgiveness but who doesnt. I use a rogue st triple diamond at 8 degrees with a evenflow white x stiff. I only drive it about 260-270 yds on good hits but its straight as an arrow for me. On miss hits i lose 20-30 yds. Swing weight is d4 at 45.5 in.
Tried the P790 7 iron and averaged around 170yds then tried a P7TW which I never thought I’d be able to hit. Loved the feel and managed 145 - 150yds. £1800 a bit steep though
It’s always nice to see a bit of a myth busting video as opposed to RUclipsrs regurgitating marketing and folklore whilst the numbers say something else!
thank you for this video. It is exactly the question I am asking myself right now. Trying to determine if I am able to take advantage of a blades workability vs need for forgiveness. Also liked that it’s not you hitting but an average mid handicapper. I would love to see same test with other brands like ping Calloway and hitting a 5 and a 8 to shoulder a mixed iron set advantage. Ugh, I need to find a good local fitter, lol.
Just switched to P7MCs 2 weeks ago after playing Supersteel Burners for the last 20 years. The immediate difference that I notice is that with the feedback of the MCs, I can make adjustments on the fly which was just a guessing game with the Burners. I feel like it was much harder to improve with game improvement irons ironically. It might just be the honeymoon phase with these things but I've already hit a personal best for GIRs in a round.
This is a really great demonstration and I experience the front to back dispersion issue with my irons. I have a set of Adams GT2 Tight Lies from 2006, I think? It has a 34* loft on the 7i but when I hit a middle strike on it, I have carried it 170-175yds but when I miss, it can be as short as 145. I don't know that I'm going to be buying any blades when I finally get fitted for my next set but I don't think I should rule them out, either.
this backs up what I found when I bought some old mizuno blades. my long left miss disappeared as well and I found I kept the ball on the fairway more. I also focus more on my swing and my striking has improved quicker. Golf is still hard though ! Ha
Great test. IMO it's all about speed as we can see on the LPGA. No MBs there and they can shoot -20 a tourney. But I've noticed more of the ladies are playing shallow cavities like the P7MC.
As a senior playing Cobra f7 irons not week lofts, 30degrees in the 7 iron. Can still carry it 160. Tried a set of Wilson game improvement irons . Hated them, pw 135-150. Thinking of going back to more traditional lofts. Wish you were closer.
Thanks Mario! I think that's a bit irrelevant in this test as it wasn't a fitting. For Steve it's likely for the 170/180 yardage I would fit him into hybrids
I’d say it is not all about the loft, but launch and landing angles as well. Low spin, hihger launch and ball flight will stop faster than low launch - low spin and the later would also result a really shallow landing angle. The moder tech irons are designed to increase launch angle, but take off from the spin and therefore send the ball flying hiher with less spin. If the strike is delofted even more from the strong lofts they now produce, it will end up i sitations, which I think this test proved perfectly. In practicing spinloft is the most important variable and finding the center of the clubface.
@@PetSKi67 the point I was arguing is that whatever loft gets you a certain distance I find blades or non improvement clubs to be better at getting me that certain distance more often. It might actually be related to the bounce and some profile. I’m in the process of testing a Titleist T150 iron and it’s incredible the way it strikes the ball opposed to for example a Cobra forged Tec X with the much wider sole. Cheers.
Had '80s era hand-me-down blades as a beginner, and they almost turned me off golf. But now, as a 15 handicapper, I have "power loft" Ping 410s, and iron play is the worst part of my game. It's been 5 years, so I plan to go for a fitting soon and see if there's a happy medium out there for me.
I love old sets of Titleist CB's. I also can't stand golf clubs with max forgiveness etc. You don't get any feedback from miss-hits as you do with bladed irons, also they look like mallets behind the ball compared to a nice small top line you get with a blade!Agree with the distance side of things. You don't get those crazy inconsistent numbers with a forged club! They are easier to gap, easier to clean and fit better in the bag! Practice more for consistent ball striking rather than buying a golf club to "help you hit the ball better" Keep up the good work with your videos! Great editing btw👍
I think blades are better to improve your game than GI iorns. Blades let you know where your at and literally makes you improve your striking for better results and game improvement iorns are more of a bandaid if your actually trying to improve your game. Back in the day everyone used blades. The funniest, and dumbest, thing I've heard is people being afraid of blades. I've never looked at a golf club and felt fear. Blades are beautiful, feel great, and only have a bad rap do to a stigma that they are scary to hit. A good swing with a gi will also be a good swing with a blade. Only thing I the sound, look, and feel of a blade can't be beat. IMO. Great video. Keep up the good work.
I have a fitting this week and this has been the result I've seen on several videos. As a mid handicap, with high swing speed, you're told blades aren't really for you but it seems like blades are closer to what I need than game improvement or players distance.
Good luck in your fitting! It will always come down to how you deliver the club into impact. Not really anything to do with handicap and not necessarily anything to do with speed. (If you have lots of speed height and descent angle is never really an issue so you can play any irons from that regard) just be led by the data and play the irons that give you the best ball flight and of course the best consistency 👌👍
@@epgolfstudiosexactly. I wanted to play a mb but ended up in the pro 245 bent 2 degrees weak because I’m steep and needed the help getting the ball in the air on my 7-6-5 and for reference I swing 7 iron mid 90’s
Very interesting. I've played blades before and would always prefer to play them just because they look good in the bag. This test proves that golf is all about practice with the right equipment and that we have all become a bit brainwashed over the years in search of distance.
Can you explain why fitters compare two clubs with the same number written on them (7 iron vs 7 iron) even when lofts are way different- vs comparing based on distance. I’d want to test the club that goes 150 yards vs the club that goes 150 yard- doesn’t matter what number is written on them. See which one is better dispersion, holds greens better etc. Am I looking at it wrong?
No you are absolutely right. But this is NOT a fitting video. And was not a test of distance either. But in an actual fitting it's pretty easy to establish what yardage their 7 iron should be going based on their swing speed and delivery. And that's important because even though everyone is a bit obsessed with distance these days you need a set that is balanced in terms of gapping. So every club needs to sit in the right window for you to make sure every other iron in the set will fit in the right window for you. The idea is to get the right distance with the right control. And working with an experienced fitter it's pretty easy to do.
This was a test of forgiveness on mishits not distance or ball flight. So if we compared a 7 to a 5 or a 9 to a 7 because of different shaft Length and head weight the forgiveness comparison would not be fair.
You could compare irons from the two sets using shafts of the same length. That's perhaps a more fair comparison of spin, descent angle, dispersion, etc.
@@jimrothca then the swingweight would be off as different head weight and would make shaft play different. So yeah you could but that would take a lot of tinkering and manipulating the clubs to try and get them to play the same. Just getting into a whole load of stuff that isn't necessary. It's a basic forgiveness test and just to open people's eyes to be a bit more aware of what they are buying. It doesn't need to get that technical 😂👍
Thanks Mark! Unfortunately that's not really possible. Just due to heads having different weights so like if I used the 9 iron from the game improvement set and got that the same loft as the blade, I'd then have to cut down the blade by 1" which would completely change swingweight and how the shaft would play, so it just doesn't really work unfortunately. This video was much more just to open people's eyes to know what your gaming and how it could possibly be hindering you when you thought it was helping you.
Honestly a bit surprised you didn't have him hit comparable lofts at the end. I'd be interested what the 5i MB looks like compared to the 7i darkspeed. Kind of an apple to orange video comparing spin and descent angles for wildly different lofts.
Great insight!! One more subsciber from me! I only wish i had seen this before i went for my fitting😭 I assumed i needed game improvement irons so the guy at american golf gave me 7 different 7 irons to try. To be honest i didn't really feel much difference between any of them but ended up buying a set of Cobra LTDX irons. Ive always had a strong short game but anything past my 7iron is poor. I put this down to the strength of loft of the longer clubs being less forgiving. E.g an open or closed 5 iron is going project the ball more left or right than open or closed 9 iron. Seems the obsession with these game improvement irons is distance not accuracy... Sorry for the SA😁
I played with old Fairway TP3 Jumbo Irons In my teens.. those punished me. I still have them and use them in the simulator for shiats and giggles 🤭 Waiting for my Mizuno 923 Forged to arrive from god knows where as it’s been Over 2months since they have been ordered 😂
I absolutely love this video, because the fitter points out the absurd loft gaps in the distance irons. A 47.5° gap wedge? So you need another gap wedge at about 52° and than a sand wedge at 56 and a lob wedge at 60? Or at least a sand/lob wedge at 58? Even in my "players cavity backs" (Wilson Staff FG 2) my PW is 47°. And I love the video because it debunks the myth that mid handicappers categorically should not play blades. I have data from about 300 rounds on my home course from the past 15 years. In this time, my handicap ranged between 18 and 12. I played with blades like the Wilson FG62, with almost blades like the Mizuno MP-32, with middle of the road cavity back irons, with "players cavity backs" and with super game improvement irons like the Ping G25. The stats for my iron shots are almost irrelevant for my scores. All that matters is how many fairways I hit, how many penalty shots I have off the tee and how many total putts I take. Plus, the average distance to the hole is even slightly better with the blades and with the "players CBs" than it is with the SGI irons. (Mind you, I got fitted for each one of these sets) Tongue-in-cheek theory: bigger irons might be more "forgiving" on off-centre hits, but with small heads, off-centre hits are less likely, because there isn't much room for being "off-centre". Once you are a little advanced as a golfer, you won't miss the ball completely, and if you find the face on a blade, it is bound to be somewhere near the centre.
Im a beginner play but with a fast swing speed. 7 iron averages 93 mph. I was playing P790s and my 7 iron would carry 200 yards when hit well. My front to back dispersion was terrible and club gapping was almost 20 yards with every club. I was always trying to slow my swing to control distance causing strike issues. My first round with T100s I shot a personal best, breaking below 90. And it’s only improved from there as I’ve learned the distances of each club. Front to back dispersion is vastly improved.
That's amazing! And yeah it can be tricky for new players that have a lot of speed as game improvement or players distance irons just go too far. T100's would be a great shout. I hope they help you get better and better
I’ve seen videos similar to this but your explanation of what is happening was really valuable. Hard to believe the results buts the numbers don’t lie. Maybe the new Ping Blueprint S irons are a possibility for the bag combo’s with the i230’s. 😎
I know everyone chases distance but distance control and precision is alot more important.You could make the MB's 2 degree's stronger and gain a little bit more but that would depend on how the player delivers the club. My self i dont like these game improvement irons there is no control the ball flights are to low even if i changed the shafts. I have always played AP2's and had blades before then went back to blades in the P7MB and love it and scores are better purely on the mid to short irons being so much better in shot dispersion and more control and spin even from bad lies. If i need distance i would personally look at a combo set . Nice video
Considering the differences in loft, would a test between the Darkspeed 7i vs the MB 5i be a more fair comparison? Lower loft is going to offer less forgiveness. I’d be interested to see if his mishits with the MB 5i perform worse than the Darkspeed 7i. I’d also venture to guess the spin would be closer too
I’m a 17hc, play ping G30 irons. My 7 iron is about 160, but can easily pure one 180 and duff it 135…you I think you’re tempting me to try some blades 🤣👍
Always found that if your miss is low heel you aren’t actually going to drop off as much as low toe on blades. Was told the sweet spot is actually bigger towards heel and non existent on the toe. I don’t mind anyone using blades because it makes them focus on ball striking. I was a 12 hcp using GI irons and changed to players cavity/mb combo set and it forced me to focus on my ball striking and my game improved way faster than with GIs. Down to a 6.1 now
I play T400 similar club to the dark speed . It’s not quite so simple. It depends how you deliver the club head . My swing adds a lot of apparent loft so traditional lofts don’t work for me. My T400 go far but fly high and and stop with acceptable spin because my delivery adds loft. However I am trying to play better and as I hit a better shot I may reduce apparent loft ….. that may hurt me at the green in which case my traditional Hot metals might go back in the bag ….
I learned on the Nike VR pro combo set, not play a players iron. The Cobra forged tec. When I got fit, I could not hit any game improvement irons. I got too much turf interaction
I play mizuno jpx 919 tours ,got fitted for them a few years ago ,hit them better and more consistent than anything else ,used To play Nike pro combo’s years ago ,went back to a cavity iron and my game went down hill ,hate offset , jacked up lofts and poor turf interaction with inconsitant distances ,that’s everything you get from cavity shovels..The thing is game improvement irons are so jacked up with lofts you would need to carry 5 wedges to gap your bag properly .As you say the modern muscle back is no longer something to be feared .Another thing with game improvement irons is that they are geared towards anti slicing ,no good if you play a draw .Good to see a proper test done ,your test guy mr 15 handicapper should put those cobras in the bag .
Wouldn’t the more comparable reality be comparing the bladed 7i and his game improvement 9? You’re comparing spin numbers etc between the two 7 irons, but they are completely different clubs. I would love to see spin numbers etc when comparing a bladed 7i (34 degrees) and a game improvement 9 iron (34 degrees roughly). I hope you get the point I’m making. That just doesn’t seem like an apples to apples test. Bring him back in! Love the vids!
100% get your point, but all of that was really just a by-product of the test. It was really just about what drop off we would see on bad hits. Which for that you need the same head weight. the rest of added info was just to make sure people are aware of the differences when they are buying and being fitted and how sometimes game improvement irons can actually be very bad for your game.
This is a true marketing verse fitting comparison… great video. I also don't think the club manufacturers will mind because blades are generally more expensive lol
It would be interesting to know the difference between the MB 5 iron and the Darkspeed 7 iron, which have similar lofts, as to how hard it is to hit either consistently.
As I said in the video I wouldn't recommend him play blades in the longer irons, well I wouldn't recommend he plays blades at all, this was just more of a fun test of forgiveness. Comparing any 5 iron to a 7 iron would never really be a fair test for a mid handicap golfer. They will always struggle more with the 5 iron due to length.
Very interesting! I agree you need to hit clubs and balls and not pigeon hole yourself. I’m using a Bridgestone that “doesn’t fit” but I gained distance and spin though I’m not fast enough for it. It is a real time investment to hit different manufactures and different models but clubs are an investment these days. Great channel!!
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Come on guys, subscribe, this IS one of the better golf sites
Thanks Jim! Really appreciate that 🙌👍👍
I subscribed! loving the channel and keep it going!
@@epgolfstudios the gap thru 7 iron of my 921 forge Mizuno , i hit just fine...
its the long irons, 4, 5,6 is where you lose important distance compared to my old TaylorMade m6's--- which is why some pros use irons with more forgiveness in their long irons.
Love this mid handicapper guy. Didnt talk too much or try and take over the show. Just did his thing and was consistent with it. Thanks mate, loved the video!
Thanks DoomaGames 👍 yeah Steve is a lovely bloke 🙌
Hope you and all the others don't mind if I make a third comment. It is long, but it's all your fault EPGS. (Can't find your name.) Your excellent test here is a really valuable one for those of us who make up the largest number of golfers and it deals with a dilemma many of us face: stick with our blades or change to game improvement irons? I just had to do the same comparison.
I will be 83 this June, have played golf for over 60 years, have a 16-17 handicap these days playing the 5800-6200 tees, have played forged blades for decades and still do. 35 years ago in Nairobi, Kenya, which is at 6000 feet, I used to hit a 9 iron 150. Back here in the US east coast, I hit my 34 degree lofted 7 iron 150 yards 25 years ago. Then it became my 140 yard club. And now it is my 130 yard club based on the indoor bays at my local PGA Super Store with Foresight GCHawk overhead launch monitors.
Last year to help with swing speed I had a second set of the same forged blades (the pro at my range has boxes of unhit ones from an experiment some years ago) built with much lighter shafts, Nippon NS Pro Zelos 8 stiff that are 87.5 grams versus my original set with Royal Prestige Rifle Lite 120 gram stiff shafts (the original Kim Braly shafts before True Temper bought out Royal and Kim went on to found KBS). But those launch monitors don't give you club swing speed, just ball speed. And recently, coming back from the winter layoff and some right knee issues with age related wear and tear on the meniscus, I have been very frustrated from getting shorter carry together with lower peak height and a descent angle of around 38 instead of the low to mid 40s you need to get the ball to stop. So your video prompted me to sign up for a quick lesson with the pro in the fitting studio that uses Trackman. (Note that Trackman gives more accurate data than the overhead Foresight GCHawk.}
He did exactly what you did here. Had me hit my 7 iron, then handed me a Mizuno JPX 923 Hot Metal Pro head with a Nippon NS Pro 950GH Neo 94.5 gram regular flex shaft. Well, I found out that my swing speed is now just 70-71 mph with my 7 iron. Old father time.
Three years ago in a Trackman fitting with the Mizuno MP-33s I had then it was 74.8 with a DG S300 stiff shaft. Ball speed 100.6, smash 1.34, attack angle 1.4, launch 22.9, spin 5370, height 81, carry 137.3, descent angle 46.3, total 146.4.
Now, with the lighter shaft, on a perfect strike, -0 impact offset, -1mm down, I had club speed 70.9, ball speed 95.5, smash 1.35, attack angle 0.2, launch 22.2, spin 5149, height 71, carry 129.5, descent angle 44.2, total 139.8. All in all, a good shot.
With the JPX 923 and 950GH Neo shaft, on a strike 2mm toe, 4mm up, I had club speed 69.9, ball speed 100.1, smash 1.43, attack angle -1.8, launch 18.6, spin 4511, height 63, carry 138.9, descent angle 39.4, total 153.3.
The pro said there you go, ten more yards. You should replace your blades with something like the JPX 923.
Sounds great. BUT WAIT, WAIT. The JPX 923 7 iron has a launch angle of 30 degrees. That is 1 degree stronger than my forged blade 6 iron. So of course it went further. And look at the key data: 4511 spin, 63 feet peak, 39.4 degrees descent, 14.4 yards run. With my forged blade 7 iron I may have been shorter, but got 5149 spin, 71 feet peak, 44.1 degrees descent, 10.3 run. I have gotten even less run on other shots. So my forged blade 7 iron will stop on the green when the JPX923 will run off.
These numbers also show you that with a swing speed of 70 mph, a 31 degree 6 iron is going to have a borderline descent angle and probably should be your longest iron. Last year I acquired a 24 degree 9 wood to replace my 5 iron, and a 21 degree 7 wood to replace my 4 iron and 3 iron. Allows me to carry 4 wedges.
So even being an old codger with a low swing speed of just 70 mph (which I am sure I can improve with practice as the season proceeds and I can get out on the course), I see no real advantage to playing a game improvement iron, and no need to spend all that money.
In case you are curious, my forged blades are Chicago Classics. They were designed and produced by Bob Adams, who was formerly the Director of Tour Operations and then of Production for MacGregor Golf. He and a partner had their own small company from 1987-95 and did forgings in Taiwan. So you can see I am playing maybe 30 year old designs. They look nearly identical to the Mizuno MP-33s I once had. The entire original set, new and unhit, built by the pro at my range, 3 iron through SW, cost me just $100, yes $100 not a typo. The second set, 3 through 9, also built by the pro at my range, cost me under $400.
Not completely sold on club fitting yet. If I'm short, next time I simply use more club. It's been my experience that score improvement has come from greater pitching and putting, not getting 10 or 20 more yards from my shots. Also, c hanging balls can help you get a higher launch angle- pro v1 x for example. I heard blades give you better feed navk - not sure I really need that.
I played with a set of Wilson blades when I started golf (because CBs hadn't been invented yet). A miss-hit left your fingers tingling and your bones vibrating - a very unpleasant sensation. I transitioned to CBs early on and have played them ever since. This year I decided I wanted new clubs and fell in love with the Wilson Staff models. As a senior 10-handicapper, I expected I would play the CBs (and they are gorgeous) but I struck the blades better and more consistently in the mid and short irons and have ended up with a blended set. During fitting, I did hit the odd miss-hit with the blades, but they felt and performed no worse than a miss-hit with the CBs. Modern blades are most definitely different to their ancestors.
Would have been nice to see a comparison between the blade 5 iron to the darkspeed 7 iron. Or between the darkspeed 9 iron and the blade 7 iron.
ruclips.net/video/yohkWQ5jVTc/видео.htmlsi=hpQlmBNEEZUpmmX8
Exactly! Same loft but different club to see what the ”tech” actually does. New video with that please😬
Yeh thi whats the point in comparing the 7 v 7 because the 9 in the improvement might have had same spin and height
That would back his hypothesis though. Poor science.
I agree with this comment. I think compare apples to apples. I would like to see a comparison of 9 to a 7 iron instead of a 7 to a 7. By the way, I ABSOLUTELY LOVE YOUR CHANNEL AND THE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE!
As a 15 handicap, I have always found a nice blade to feel and fly better. It is hard to look at a chunky iron and my friends have always assumed I’m a snob. Not true. If an iron plays well, I like it. Interesting!
If your a 15 at a minimum you should be playing like a players distance iron. P790. If your a 15 your giving up strokes trying to play blades.
@@rileyshane78 I can understand your point and if I competed, I would follow that advice. Ultimately, I play for fun and I really enjoy the blades sometimes. I have an entire garage full of different clubs and try them all. I’m simply a golf enthusiast.
How the hell can you know what the ball striking is like based on a players handicap? 15 handicap probably has quite good ball striking they might just be shit off the tee and around the greens
Hit the irons that work for you and make you feel comfortable it's got absolutely nothing to do with handicap providing you're not a bad golfer
If you're athletic with good power and a reasonable swing you probably don't need any irons that help you with distance
@@chrisbrookes749 true but how many great ball strikers are 15 handicap’s. Not many. A little forgiveness goes along ways
@rileyshane78 great maybe not but good or above average, alot
It's usually a small swing mechanic issue and alot of the time less forgiving clubs give you more feedback to tell you what you're actually doing wrong
Best thing to do is not buy equipment to fix your issues, it's to actually analyse your swing and find out why the issues are happening
Great video. I’m a 10 handicap and have blades in the wedges down to 8 iron, then 7 & 6 irons are a shallow cavity with the 3-5 being hybrids. At 59 I need a little help but blades for the scoring clubs can’t be beaten. Swapped into graphite shafts a couple of years ago and that was a great help too. If you go for a fitting trust your fitter and park the preconceptions.
This is one of the most under discussed topics in golf. I try to tell people this all the time.
100%. The lack of awareness around iron lofts and what that can mean for how they perform for you is crazy. That's why we try to do videos like this just to make people be a bit more aware of what they are buying and to make sure it is definitely right for them 👌
I had game improvement irons and players style irons and had similar results, but being a senior who's lost some distance, I took the middle ground and got players distance irons.
A very interesting comparison in “forgiveness” such an overused term in golf. Ross is an excellent fitter, way above the level of your normal club pro. I did 2 x 5 hour round trips to see Ross for my full bag fitting. Couldn’t be happier. Played my first round with my new irons and have never hit my clubs so well.
Highly recommended
Totally agree with you Ross. Given the Darkspeed is effectively a 5 iron loft, it would have been good to get Steve to hit a 5 iron in the blade as well and compare those shots to the Darkspeed 7 iron.
Thanks Cameron. Yeah it would be, but I would never tell him to play the blade in the 5 irons, well tbh I wouldn't tell him to play the blades at all, but with the 5 being an inch longer and having a lighter head weight it just becomes an unfair comparison to me
@@epgolfstudios yeah I guess it’s not quite “apples vs apples”. But to your point about the Darkspeed 7 iron having a larger dispersion circle than the blade, I think that is because basically he’s hitting a 5 iron. It would have been interesting to see if actually hitting a 5 iron blade (even with a longer shaft) the dispersion circles were then more similar. I expect they would be. Question for you: do you find many golfers with such high spin that do benefit from strong lofted GI irons? I mean, it feels like if you are too slow they won’t reach good peak heights & will have low descent angles, and if you’re fast enough to generate better height and descent angles they just go too far and then you have major gapping issues at the bottom of your bag. So do they really suit many (any?) golfers at all?
I agree. The spin, launch and other numbers would give a real comparison. A more lofted club like a blade 7 34 degree is much easier to hit than a 5 iron loft. Plus spin is so much higher on weaker clubs
How can you fairly compare dispersion when you're comparing clubs that go different distances? Doesn't matter if you're hitting a blade if you're going to compare a club that goes 140 vs one that goes 160, the 160 club will always have a bigger dispersion.
As a mid-handicap player who is in the process of going from a CB blade to the Titleist T200....I have only hit the T200's on the simulator, but the launch, peak height and descent angle are so much better for a given distance. I'm hitting the T200's about 1 club longer....so for a 155 yard approach I'm hitting 8 iron instead of 7. The peak height is significantly higher with the T200 and so the descent angle is better, and the spin is not all that different. I think a proper comparison isn't hitting 7 iron vs 7 iron, it would be more hitting a 150 shot with whatever club you'd use in the given set. This would give a better comparison of how the clubs will play on course. I swing about 80mph with 7 iron plus or minus and am carrying it ~165 in the T200.
It would be interesting to see in a test of a "blade" type of club to a players distance iron like the T200 or the P790 or Mizuno Pro 245 and have the mid-handicap player hit 150 yard shots with both sets instead of comparing 7 irons. I'd be curious to see if the results are the same as what I'm seeing, or if I'm some kind of anomaly.
I'd be intersested in a comparison of bldes and SGI irons using a club that goes the same distance from each set.
Loving what cobra are producing at the minute 👌
This is a massive eye opener. I’ve always been scared to use anything but progression irons. Used my friends MB irons after watching this video and now I’m spoiled 😂. Will be booking in a fitting shortly. Thank you so much keep up the good work!
Went from game improvement irons to a blended set. Blades from PW to 7i. Small cavity from 6 to 4i. My game improved so much. Totally counter intuitive.
Have the same experience. Mid-handicapper (15), not super fast but semi decent swing, and recently got fitted. Tried all the game improvement clubs (G430 etc etc); went miles, but very low spinning and low flight. Reluctantly I tried the Apex Pro (24) the fitter gave me. The small size and thinner top line looked scary, but it was rather easy to hit, forgiving and the flight and numbers (incl. distance) was so much better. Plus the sound and feel .... jeez....Ok, Apex Pro are player distance irons, and not pure blades like the CB or MB (almost wished I tried them too) but I agree with the point of this video. Love the channel!
Great content! It's incredibly valuable to provide golfers insight in the type of clubs they could be aiming for based on their handicap!
I switched from game improvement irons in regular flex shafts (TM R7xd S-5) to a combo set (Haywood Golf PW-7 MB, 6-4 CB) with DG S300 shafts and I’ve dropped 4 strokes in a year off my handicap (18.7-14.6). Play what makes you feel confident, it’ll make you play better
I was fitted in to a combo set of Apex Pro for 5-7 and Apex CB for the 8-PW. I found my ball striking and direction was so much better than the TM Stealths I was using previously. As you also pointed out, trying to hold a green was a nightmare with the Stealths. My new irons stop on dime.
Apex pro are kinda game improving irons tho. Kinda helpful hollow bodies irons, like the p790
Kind of, but not in the same way as the really chunky Stealths, or other game improvement irons. Also, my irons into greens are with the CB in 8-PW, so I avoid those really hot shots into the green. @@CharlotteK2008
@@CharlotteK2008apex pros are
Much more like p770’s, not anywhere near a GI iron. Tour pros use apex pro’s and p770’s, which are both hollowbody (tiger uses the 3)
Earned a subscriber with this one! I have heard so much "why'd you buy those, you'll never be able to hit them" when I picked up my Titleist CB's (3-PW). My recent gapping session on the GCquad showed my average 7i as 156 carry, 6500 spin, 19 degree launch, 46 degree landing, peak height 91'.
The ultimate benefit they have provided is the instant feedback where as GI clubs feel dead in my hands.
I don't feel that they punish me on poor strikes with anything other than a bit of lost distance which is fine.
Cool test. My all time favs were Mizuno MP14s back in the day and with a 13-16hcp back then, I think blades teach you to make better contact. Modern hollow bodies are game changers though, particularly as age takes away clubbed speed, and my hcp ranges 9-12 now. Really enjoyed this test.
Ok, after watching, I stand corrected. He does have enough swing speed to hit the forged blades. Got decent distance, got great descent angles, and best of all he kept it on the green with tight vertical and horizontal dispersion. Take the blades and run. If you were doing a full fitting you might still find that perhaps a cavity back would give an extra 5 yards while retaining descent angle and decide that was optimal. But he proved he can play -- and enjoy -- the forged blades. Great to see. By the way, speaking of lofts, the original Mizunos had a 7 iron loft of 37 degrees. Yes, 37, you can look it up in the history they provide of when every iron was released and for how long. Thanks for a great video.
I just returned to golf about 2 years ago after an almost 20yr break.. currently hitting Ping's g425's with 105-stiff steel.. went and got fitted.. tried Pings, Mizu's, TaylorMade, etc and of course a whole host of shafts.. I played Mizu's MP30 blades back in my younger days but those days a LONG gone... i actually wound up selecting the DarkSpeed irons with kbs pgi 85 stiff shafts. Went with 6i-GW as I don't ever hit my 5i and don't even carry a 3i or 4i.. have hybrids instead (and yes love the hybrids) I have a naturally high ball flight and with irons i rarely get much rollout so when i hit greens the ball sticks. Mostly play 5800-6400yr courses and i'm usually a Driver and short iron into the green (Driver avg is 250 but take out some bad/short ones.. i'm about 260+).. I'll say I really loved the feel & sound of the DarkSpeeds and with that shaft combo i was hitting consistently online/straight and carry about 170+. (oh my D/3w are both Cobra's too Aero Jet LS set at 9-degree and DarkSpeed 3w and KingTech hybrib. current wedges are Lazrus (bought on a whim just to try.. and honestly.. they are pretty dang good. a firm feel but still nice) If i weren't 60 i prob would've gone for a more players club but i think i'll like my setup. last few rounds - kept with Golf Pad Tags for stats.. 85, 83, 82, 83, 79.... something clicked in July w/the 79.. because before that i was 85-95.. maybe it's finally coming back to me :)
I taught myself how to play the game with Hogan ftx irons. They were the mixed set with blades with cavity long irons. I love those clubs
Great video, but to be honest , it’s about the distance you want to hit, so shouldn’t you be comparing a blade 7 iron to the game improvement 9 iron, thanks for the videos
I own a pair of both blades and cavity backs. The blades make this click sound that I find very rewarding when I hit them well. If I hit the blades bad it can sting your hands though. I get the impression the blade technology hasn’t changed much over the years but CBs are constantly being re-engineered. Because a modern blade doesn’t look that much different from 10 years ago but a CB looks a lot different.
Great video mate. I had literally the same findings when I switched from my game improvements to the cobra MB's, played my best golf ever since!
Yes Big Jimmy 🙌🙌👍
Just swapped out my old callaway GIs for my first set of forged irons which are a cobra CB/MB set. I was a little nervous to buy them without hitting a set first, but after a month its been one of the best decisions ive ever made. Even though the lofts are higher, old 7 iron = new 6 iron, ive found that ive actually gained a club in distance with the new irons (new 7 iron goes as far as old 6 iron). I think i focus on impact more since it matters a little more which is giving higher % of pure strikes. I dont really care about distance since i have enough to be dangerous, its all about precision for me. They fly more consistant and distances are more consistant all else being equal. Long story short, for anyone out there in the 10-20 handicap range that is thinking about GI vs forged: defiantely give them a try with a pro. You may be surprised to find they are more forgiving than you think and the trade offs favor forged, at least for me. Also, nothing beats the amazing sound and feel of a pured forged iron! Its addicting
I've gone from 50 to 27 almost overnight, switching from Ping G425 irons to P790s. Not quite a blade but conventional wisdom still says I shouldn't have picked them as a high handicap.
The distance is much more consistent & I've improved ball striking with some feedback from strikes.
For some reason the thinner sole suits my swing, fat shots are very rare. Any handicap should use what works for them
I got g425s now and thinking about grabbing some p790’s myself
I started with m4 irons and I was a high handicap, I then moved to p770’s and achieved higher mid handicap. Now I play the p7mb’s p-3 iron and my handicap is 11.3, I absolutely love blades and recommend them to everybody.
Great video!!! Proves that people need to go to real fitters not the big golf stores! Knew a guy that played game improvement irons but only used the pw, 8 iron and 5 iron
I got fit for irons at club champion last year, I'm an 18 handicap, and figured something like a Cobra King Tour or a T100s would be best for me, was shocked when I got fit into these same MBs. Has the most consistent strike pattern, and best flights compared to Ping i230, p790, p770, etc. cool to see this workout with someone similar
Interesting, i am the opposite. I’ve been single figures for 50 years, plus handicap in my youth. I always played blades, then progressives, MB 3-6 iron, blades 7-wedges. Had a medical situation which dramatically changed my swing speed and muscle memory, worked hard on fitness and swing muscle memory, now swing it okay, but distance compromised, so game improvement clubs give me great assistance. ironically i now swing 7 iron 84 mph 140 efficiency, my Callaway Apex irons carry 155, which suits me perfectly, tried blades, hit the ball 135 carry. I hold the green well with 7 iron, longer than that i use hybrids, they fly and stop on a sixpence, so new lofts not an issue. This video graphically demonstrates a good fitting session and or gapping session will enable you better understand your personal options. I would advocate, good lessons, read Hogan and practice, these will give you the results to improve your game.
So, not enough spin with the 7 iron, and hitting it too far,....So use the 8 iron. The manufactures are making these clubs for a reason. The real comparison would have been to use the bladed 5 iron.
A lot of professional golfers don’t tend to use bladed long irons. They will do mixed set with a club with more help to get them higher
That comment literally makes zero sense 😂 it's a SET of irons, the whole way through they need to be as optimised for you as possible, if the 7 iron and below have terrible performance then how does that make sense. Yeah you could just hit the 8 iron but what about when he has a shot that needs the 7 iron, 6 iron, etc. Ball flight is terrible and miss will be worse....plus this was never really planned as a test of distance or ball flight, it was a mid handicapper testing a blade for forgiveness against a super game improvement iron. And as we saw, not as much difference as people will expect on mishits. Blade 5 iron would not be a fair comparison, head weight is lighter, shaft length is much longer. As I said in the test in neither of these sets would Steve be playing the 5 iron. Really in a fitting obviously he wouldn't end up with either set. There would be a nice middle ground.
Absolutely right a lot don't. But generally speaking it's not for height, as most of them have plenty of speed which translates to height with no issue. It would be more to optimise ball speed, gapping, spin reduction at times, as long irons spin lots of grass so a 4 iron blade can spin a huge amount which is unnecessary for some players.
@@epgolfstudios Of course it makes sense. If your average mid to high handicapper has 180 yards to the pin, he has a way better chance of hitting the game improvement 7 iron, rather than a bladed 5 iron. If you are a good, consistent ball striker, (with consistent yardages) then what you say makes perfect sense, but for your average mid to high handicapper (who struggle for distance and ball striking) the object is just to reach the green in two, and if they can achieve that by hitting the shorter 7 iron, then it's beneficial. That's why the manufactures are making them.
@@thewatchman6074 Agreed. But he wouldn't be in a bladed 5 iron anyway. My point isn't that he should be using blades, it's that the game improvement set on a whole is far from the best set up for most golfers, definitely for Steve. Even if he had to go to a 6 or 5 hybrid to hit that distance that would be a lot better than a game improvement 6 or 7 iron. Way more launch, more spin, more control, and more forgiving.
Great video! I used to think cast game improvement irons were more forgiving but after picking up a set of used forged mizunos I feel it’s actually the opposite. I hit the mizunos higher and straighter compared to my AP1’s.. Also the feel and sound is so much better
The game Improvement Irons seem like a much better fit for the player that struggles with high spin and a high weak flight. If the tester struggled with a slice the Darkspeed irons might have helped more.
I found the same thing as the tester. Currently playing blades for similar reasons. I draw the ball and hit down on it. The additional loft and spin helps me launch the ball and get a better descent angle.
Had a similar experience when I was playing the Titleist AP3 irons. They went too far, spun too low and had trouble holding greens. Also had to play 5 wedges.
One thing people don’t pay enough attention to is the turf interaction. The thinner sole of the blades gets through the turf better for me. The wider sole of game improvement irons caused me to have more thin strikes.
I loved this video- a topic I don’t see many people being willing to take on! I think a really interesting one would be breaking down the different “elements” of forgiveness tech (low/deep CG, wide sole, hollow body, strong lofts, etc) and how they impact ball flight and striking. I feel like forgiveness as a concept is so misunderstood and oversimplified and leads to lots of players playing the wrong clubs because they blanket believe that they do or do not “need forgiveness.”
I started with a borrowed set of Mizuno MP63 - this meant I needed to concentrate more on strike. I just loved the buttery feel on the good shots. I now play with forged cavity bkack players distance irons. I tried game improvement irons as a rental set and truly struggled. I never believed that your handicap indicated which clubs to use. Granted the longer itons need more speed!!
This is why I went to a combo set with more traditional lofting, I was hitting my forged Tec hollow body 8 iron 180yds with under 5k rpm. I went to Takomos and now my MB 8 iron carries about 165yds at 7400rpm.
Great info! I've played almost every style of club, from 1960s MBs, to cleveland launcher "hyrons", and I still shoot around the same scores regardless. Occsional shot improvement would be a more accurate name than 'game improvement' imho. The differences just don't seem to be as massive as the marketing would suggest. I'm back to using my old Hogan Ft worth 15 irons, mainly because they have a consistent 4 degrees of loft change between clubs and that gives me consistent gaps. I have them from 24 degrees down to 56. I sub in a 24 degree hybrid to get a bit more launch, funnily enough it goes the same distance as the 24 degree iron, just flies a little higher.
I started playing mixed blades at around 18 hcp. They got some offset at the long end beside beong cavity-muscle backs from 6 iron upwards. Since then cut-muscle and pure muscle backs. However I got tendency to hit too much down on the ball with speed. 6-iron chs used to top at 102 mph back in those days.
What comes to my mind with the manequin, I would think he’d benefit from light-weighted flighted, low-kick shafts getting the spin little bit up or at least launch the Darkspeeds higher as they are designed to. Yet the strikes were pretty eqal, finding the sweet spot more often with both clubs would make a huge difference.
My current numbers with 7-iron (traditional lofts forged blades) are about:
- Spin at and around 6000 rpm, (+/-200)
- CHS 89-92,
- SF 1.35…1.38
- Carry 148 m
- Total 155…160 m
But as said, I hit it down a lot, at least the same as Tour avg in Trackman charts and have a pretty heavy Stiff+ shafts, which I have dialed down from the X-Stiffs I sed to play, when younger.
I find this interesting. As longer irons are typically “harder” to hit, it looks like you could do a set where you go more traditional lofts in your scoring clubs, P, 9, 8, 7. Then go with 9, 8, 7 iron in the game improvement category. That way your gapping stays pretty consistent and you are using shorter, more confidence inspiring clubs as a replacement for a traditional top end of your bag. I had never considered that as an option before now. Great video.
as an 18 handicap, this is really interesting. i've been looking at game improvement irons, actually the darkspeed, and the lofts put me off a lot. i think i'll stick with my mizunos for a while longer, until i'm comfortable with something like the MB!
I started golf at 29 got a set of Wilson Sam Snead blue ridge blade irons from my uncle. They hurt your fingers when you didn’t hit them out the centre. I’m playing taylormade p790 2019 irons now so much more forgiving. Treated myself to some tiger wood Nike blades love hitting them and maybe I might be more consistent with them. Love your channel 😊
I’ve played golf since I was a kid but never really got into it. Now at 35 fully addicted for a little over a year. Been playing some ping GI irons. They are gigantic but now that I’m really trying to work on my swing - over the winter and this season - I’m realizing I have no idea when I’m striking the ball well because I can’t feel anything.
Going to go out and buy some old blades to play with for a while.
Great test!
Would be interesting to compare Mb 5 iron to the game improvement 7 (same lofts)
Great video and really interesting. I would like to see how he would do with either players distance or cavity back vs the muscle back. I like the idea of mixing sets with more help in the longer irons and then less in the lower irons and mbs for wedges.
This is such a good point. The OEMs are trying to make a “7” iron that goes as far as possible, and unfortunately the customers like it. The high launch irons ( low COG, higher lofts) is probably a better idea.
The customers only like it because the salesman doesn't fully explain what the tradeoffs are, essentially just to try and sell them a set of irons. And most of the time it isn't worth it. Don't get me wrong for a very specific player these irons will be great. But for most they won't be.
@@epgolfstudios The golf industry doesn’t want the public playing blades /musclebacks ,it’s not profitable,there’s very little between one model to another or year to year ,they like to sell nice shiny colourful cavity’s with silly names to get players to change irons every couple of years
Subscriber here. Thank you for your videos. I enjoy them. - They just need to start renumbering the clubs for a particular range of loft. I have the Mizuno JPX 923 and my 7 iron (28.5°) should actually have a 6 on it. The PW is only 42.5°.
Having watched other club comparison videos I'm not so surprised of the outcome between blades and game improvement irons. Steve has a nice swing for a 16 handicap. I would guess something in between a blade and dark speed like Mizuno JPX forged or pro 425 would be good clubs where the lofts are not jacked up but still give a bit of help in launch and forgiveness on off centre hits. Thanks for the video.
I started playing mixed blades at around 18 hcp. They got some offset at the long end beside being cavity-muscle backs from 6 iron upwards and flighted shafts, which were frequency matched rather than with the old school swing weihgt scale.
Since then cut-muscle and pure muscle backs. However I got tendency to hit too much down on the ball with speed. 6-iron chs used to top at 102 mph back in those days.
What comes to my mind with the manequin, I would think he’d benefit from light-weighted flighted, low-kick shafts getting the spin little bit up or at least launch the Darkspeeds higher as they are designed to. Yet the strikes were pretty eqal, finding the sweet spot more often with both clubs would make a huge difference.
My current numbers with 7-iron (traditional lofts forged blades) are about:
- Spin at and around 6000 rpm, (+/-200)
- CHS 89-92,
- SF 1.35…1.38
- Carry 148 m
- Total 155…160 m
But as said, I hit it down a lot, at least the same as Tour avg in Trackman charts and have a pretty heavy Stiff+ shafts, which I have dialed down from the X-Stiffs I sed to play, when younger. An have put in some work during the last 15-20 years and now play off index 2.6.
From my experience blades are over rated as too hard to play for mid handicappers, specially the modern. But then again, if a player cannot find the center every so often, then a larger head with perimeter weighting and some tech is a smart and better choice.
I went from ping i500 to cobra speedzone sgi irons this year. Will be very interesting to see the difference. I’m around 6-8hcp.
The ping were great at sweetspot but so short at slight misshits
I just got got into MB’s up to 8i. What’s interesting is that I am coming from game improvers. My swing speed with mid irons hovers around 95mph +/-2mph. What I’ve noticed with the game improvement clubs is the spin and front to back dispersion was just too unpredictable. Draws could easily total out 200-210 yards, fades would be like 170-180 and the club heads were so damn big that it’s near impossible to visualize your intended shot shape or exactly where the sweet spot is. Also bringing ball flight down with my old clubs was just more work then it needed to be. They serve a purpose for people looking to have fun on course. Blades and CB players irons are not for everyone… certainly not slow speed players or ones that are all over the face of the club, that said, it’s much easier to score with blades and CB’s then game improvement clubs because they’re way more predictable
Interesting! The loft diff def helps explain why I couldn’t hit my 4 iron and had to go with a hybrid. 5 iron is hit or miss but been plying it like a hybrid and has been better. I have a slow swing speed so knowing my 4i is basically a 2 iron is nuts
I currently have old cavity back irons -36deg 7i with wide soles.
Back in the 70s/80s I played blades (of course) ..Never again!
But my favourite clubs were the Titleist DCIs I got in the early 90s. I was happy playing them until about 15 years ago. That 'something in between' looked good but didn't hurt on those bloody miss hits 👌
I love this channel. The equipment reviews are good. I like the quality but the common sense takes and comments are great. I like this one because ive had this opinion of forgiving clubs for awhile. For example i like to have distance drop off on miss hits with driver to help keep it in play. Of course i like directional forgiveness but who doesnt. I use a rogue st triple diamond at 8 degrees with a evenflow white x stiff. I only drive it about 260-270 yds on good hits but its straight as an arrow for me. On miss hits i lose 20-30 yds. Swing weight is d4 at 45.5 in.
Tried the P790 7 iron and averaged around 170yds then tried a P7TW which I never thought I’d be able to hit. Loved the feel and managed 145 - 150yds. £1800 a bit steep though
If possible try the Mizuno 241 or 221 , yes they're blades but the distance is incredible....
It’s always nice to see a bit of a myth busting video as opposed to RUclipsrs regurgitating marketing and folklore whilst the numbers say something else!
I was one of the 88%. Liked and subscribed 🤙. Interesting vid 👍
thank you for this video. It is exactly the question I am asking myself right now. Trying to determine if I am able to take advantage of a blades workability vs need for forgiveness. Also liked that it’s not you hitting but an average mid handicapper. I would love to see same test with other brands like ping Calloway and hitting a 5 and a 8 to shoulder a mixed iron set advantage. Ugh, I need to find a good local fitter, lol.
Just switched to P7MCs 2 weeks ago after playing Supersteel Burners for the last 20 years. The immediate difference that I notice is that with the feedback of the MCs, I can make adjustments on the fly which was just a guessing game with the Burners. I feel like it was much harder to improve with game improvement irons ironically.
It might just be the honeymoon phase with these things but I've already hit a personal best for GIRs in a round.
This is a really great demonstration and I experience the front to back dispersion issue with my irons. I have a set of Adams GT2 Tight Lies from 2006, I think? It has a 34* loft on the 7i but when I hit a middle strike on it, I have carried it 170-175yds but when I miss, it can be as short as 145. I don't know that I'm going to be buying any blades when I finally get fitted for my next set but I don't think I should rule them out, either.
this backs up what I found when I bought some old mizuno blades. my long left miss disappeared as well and I found I kept the ball on the fairway more. I also focus more on my swing and my striking has improved quicker. Golf is still hard though ! Ha
I play Wishon 575 CB which all have traditional lofts. My numbers are similar with my 7 to what Steve got with MB
Great test. IMO it's all about speed as we can see on the LPGA. No MBs there and they can shoot -20 a tourney. But I've noticed more of the ladies are playing shallow cavities like the P7MC.
As a senior playing Cobra f7 irons not week lofts, 30degrees in the 7 iron. Can still carry it 160. Tried a set of Wilson game improvement irons . Hated them, pw 135-150. Thinking of going back to more traditional lofts. Wish you were closer.
This is brilliant. I agree it’s all about loft. My question is consistency of stone with av longer club.
Thanks Mario! I think that's a bit irrelevant in this test as it wasn't a fitting. For Steve it's likely for the 170/180 yardage I would fit him into hybrids
I’d say it is not all about the loft, but launch and landing angles as well. Low spin, hihger launch and ball flight will stop faster than low launch - low spin and the later would also result a really shallow landing angle.
The moder tech irons are designed to increase launch angle, but take off from the spin and therefore send the ball flying hiher with less spin.
If the strike is delofted even more from the strong lofts they now produce, it will end up i sitations, which I think this test proved perfectly.
In practicing spinloft is the most important variable and finding the center of the clubface.
@@PetSKi67 the point I was arguing is that whatever loft gets you a certain distance I find blades or non improvement clubs to be better at getting me that certain distance more often.
It might actually be related to the bounce and some profile.
I’m in the process of testing a Titleist T150 iron and it’s incredible the way it strikes the ball opposed to for example a Cobra forged Tec X with the much wider sole. Cheers.
My favourite golf channel
Thanks Robert 👌 nice to see a positive comment on this vid 😂 most people don't seem to have fully grasped the idea 🙈😂
Had '80s era hand-me-down blades as a beginner, and they almost turned me off golf. But now, as a 15 handicapper, I have "power loft" Ping 410s, and iron play is the worst part of my game. It's been 5 years, so I plan to go for a fitting soon and see if there's a happy medium out there for me.
as a beginner myself i went from game improvement to cbs bout 6 months in i didnt like that i couldnt feel how i was missing.
I love old sets of Titleist CB's. I also can't stand golf clubs with max forgiveness etc. You don't get any feedback from miss-hits as you do with bladed irons, also they look like mallets behind the ball compared to a nice small top line you get with a blade!Agree with the distance side of things. You don't get those crazy inconsistent numbers with a forged club! They are easier to gap, easier to clean and fit better in the bag! Practice more for consistent ball striking rather than buying a golf club to "help you hit the ball better" Keep up the good work with your videos! Great editing btw👍
I think blades are better to improve your game than GI iorns. Blades let you know where your at and literally makes you improve your striking for better results and game improvement iorns are more of a bandaid if your actually trying to improve your game. Back in the day everyone used blades. The funniest, and dumbest, thing I've heard is people being afraid of blades. I've never looked at a golf club and felt fear. Blades are beautiful, feel great, and only have a bad rap do to a stigma that they are scary to hit. A good swing with a gi will also be a good swing with a blade. Only thing I the sound, look, and feel of a blade can't be beat. IMO. Great video. Keep up the good work.
I have a fitting this week and this has been the result I've seen on several videos. As a mid handicap, with high swing speed, you're told blades aren't really for you but it seems like blades are closer to what I need than game improvement or players distance.
Good luck in your fitting! It will always come down to how you deliver the club into impact. Not really anything to do with handicap and not necessarily anything to do with speed. (If you have lots of speed height and descent angle is never really an issue so you can play any irons from that regard) just be led by the data and play the irons that give you the best ball flight and of course the best consistency 👌👍
@@epgolfstudiosexactly. I wanted to play a mb but ended up in the pro 245 bent 2 degrees weak because I’m steep and needed the help getting the ball in the air on my 7-6-5 and for reference I swing 7 iron mid 90’s
Very interesting. I've played blades before and would always prefer to play them just because they look good in the bag. This test proves that golf is all about practice with the right equipment and that we have all become a bit brainwashed over the years in search of distance.
Can you explain why fitters compare two clubs with the same number written on them (7 iron vs 7 iron) even when lofts are way different- vs comparing based on distance. I’d want to test the club that goes 150 yards vs the club that goes 150 yard- doesn’t matter what number is written on them. See which one is better dispersion, holds greens better etc.
Am I looking at it wrong?
No you are absolutely right. But this is NOT a fitting video. And was not a test of distance either. But in an actual fitting it's pretty easy to establish what yardage their 7 iron should be going based on their swing speed and delivery. And that's important because even though everyone is a bit obsessed with distance these days you need a set that is balanced in terms of gapping. So every club needs to sit in the right window for you to make sure every other iron in the set will fit in the right window for you. The idea is to get the right distance with the right control. And working with an experienced fitter it's pretty easy to do.
It seems a better comparison would be 150-yard Darkspeed vs. 150-yard King?? Or the 170-yard Darkspeed vs. the 170-yard King??
This was a test of forgiveness on mishits not distance or ball flight. So if we compared a 7 to a 5 or a 9 to a 7 because of different shaft Length and head weight the forgiveness comparison would not be fair.
You could compare irons from the two sets using shafts of the same length. That's perhaps a more fair comparison of spin, descent angle, dispersion, etc.
@@jimrothca then the swingweight would be off as different head weight and would make shaft play different. So yeah you could but that would take a lot of tinkering and manipulating the clubs to try and get them to play the same. Just getting into a whole load of stuff that isn't necessary. It's a basic forgiveness test and just to open people's eyes to be a bit more aware of what they are buying. It doesn't need to get that technical 😂👍
Great video! I'd like to see a comparison of these clubs with the same loft and length
Thanks Mark! Unfortunately that's not really possible. Just due to heads having different weights so like if I used the 9 iron from the game improvement set and got that the same loft as the blade, I'd then have to cut down the blade by 1" which would completely change swingweight and how the shaft would play, so it just doesn't really work unfortunately. This video was much more just to open people's eyes to know what your gaming and how it could possibly be hindering you when you thought it was helping you.
Great video, would be good to see a players cavity Vs p790 type iron test
stumbled into blades as a 12 HCP golfer, for me the narrower sole fits me better. Been playing them since and now down to a 4.
Honestly a bit surprised you didn't have him hit comparable lofts at the end. I'd be interested what the 5i MB looks like compared to the 7i darkspeed. Kind of an apple to orange video comparing spin and descent angles for wildly different lofts.
Great video, enjoying the content loads 👍🏻
Great insight!! One more subsciber from me! I only wish i had seen this before i went for my fitting😭 I assumed i needed game improvement irons so the guy at american golf gave me 7 different 7 irons to try. To be honest i didn't really feel much difference between any of them but ended up buying a set of Cobra LTDX irons. Ive always had a strong short game but anything past my 7iron is poor. I put this down to the strength of loft of the longer clubs being less forgiving. E.g an open or closed 5 iron is going project the ball more left or right than open or closed 9 iron.
Seems the obsession with these game improvement irons is distance not accuracy...
Sorry for the SA😁
Thanks for the support! Yeah as you know I'm not a huge fan of them. For a very specific player they are great but for most they hinder in many areas
I played with old Fairway TP3 Jumbo Irons In my teens.. those punished me. I still have them and use them in the simulator for shiats and giggles 🤭
Waiting for my Mizuno 923 Forged to arrive from god knows where as it’s been Over 2months since they have been ordered 😂
I absolutely love this video, because the fitter points out the absurd loft gaps in the distance irons. A 47.5° gap wedge? So you need another gap wedge at about 52° and than a sand wedge at 56 and a lob wedge at 60? Or at least a sand/lob wedge at 58? Even in my "players cavity backs" (Wilson Staff FG 2) my PW is 47°. And I love the video because it debunks the myth that mid handicappers categorically should not play blades. I have data from about 300 rounds on my home course from the past 15 years. In this time, my handicap ranged between 18 and 12. I played with blades like the Wilson FG62, with almost blades like the Mizuno MP-32, with middle of the road cavity back irons, with "players cavity backs" and with super game improvement irons like the Ping G25. The stats for my iron shots are almost irrelevant for my scores. All that matters is how many fairways I hit, how many penalty shots I have off the tee and how many total putts I take. Plus, the average distance to the hole is even slightly better with the blades and with the "players CBs" than it is with the SGI irons. (Mind you, I got fitted for each one of these sets)
Tongue-in-cheek theory: bigger irons might be more "forgiving" on off-centre hits, but with small heads, off-centre hits are less likely, because there isn't much room for being "off-centre". Once you are a little advanced as a golfer, you won't miss the ball completely, and if you find the face on a blade, it is bound to be somewhere near the centre.
Im a beginner play but with a fast swing speed. 7 iron averages 93 mph. I was playing P790s and my 7 iron would carry 200 yards when hit well. My front to back dispersion was terrible and club gapping was almost 20 yards with every club. I was always trying to slow my swing to control distance causing strike issues. My first round with T100s I shot a personal best, breaking below 90. And it’s only improved from there as I’ve learned the distances of each club. Front to back dispersion is vastly improved.
That's amazing! And yeah it can be tricky for new players that have a lot of speed as game improvement or players distance irons just go too far. T100's would be a great shout. I hope they help you get better and better
I’ve seen videos similar to this but your explanation of what is happening was really valuable. Hard to believe the results buts the numbers don’t lie. Maybe the new Ping Blueprint S irons are a possibility for the bag combo’s with the i230’s. 😎
You need to try the Blueprint T's. They are quite forgiving and the feel is pure butter.
@@sexiestmenalivepodcast3556 thanks! More temptation is just what I needed! 😂
I know everyone chases distance but distance control and precision is alot more important.You could make the MB's 2 degree's stronger and gain a little bit more but that would depend on how the player delivers the club.
My self i dont like these game improvement irons there is no control the ball flights are to low even if i changed the shafts.
I have always played AP2's and had blades before then went back to blades in the P7MB and love it and scores are better purely on the mid to short irons being so much better in shot dispersion and more control and spin even from bad lies.
If i need distance i would personally look at a combo set .
Nice video
Considering the differences in loft, would a test between the Darkspeed 7i vs the MB 5i be a more fair comparison? Lower loft is going to offer less forgiveness. I’d be interested to see if his mishits with the MB 5i perform worse than the Darkspeed 7i. I’d also venture to guess the spin would be closer too
Great info and easy to understand detail.
I’m a 17hc, play ping G30 irons. My 7 iron is about 160, but can easily pure one 180 and duff it 135…you I think you’re tempting me to try some blades 🤣👍
Always found that if your miss is low heel you aren’t actually going to drop off as much as low toe on blades. Was told the sweet spot is actually bigger towards heel and non existent on the toe. I don’t mind anyone using blades because it makes them focus on ball striking. I was a 12 hcp using GI irons and changed to players cavity/mb combo set and it forced me to focus on my ball striking and my game improved way faster than with GIs. Down to a 6.1 now
Subscribed and well worth it. 👍
Thanks Jeffrey very much appreciated 👍
I play T400 similar club to the dark speed . It’s not quite so simple. It depends how you deliver the club head . My swing adds a lot of apparent loft so traditional lofts don’t work for me. My T400 go far but fly high and and stop with acceptable spin because my delivery adds loft.
However I am trying to play better and as I hit a better shot I may reduce apparent loft ….. that may hurt me at the green in which case my traditional Hot metals might go back in the bag ….
I learned on the Nike VR pro combo set, not play a players iron. The Cobra forged tec. When I got fit, I could not hit any game improvement irons. I got too much turf interaction
I play mizuno jpx 919 tours ,got fitted for them a few years ago ,hit them better and more consistent than anything else ,used To play Nike pro combo’s years ago ,went back to a cavity iron and my game went down hill ,hate offset , jacked up lofts and poor turf interaction with inconsitant distances ,that’s everything you get from cavity shovels..The thing is game improvement irons are so jacked up with lofts you would need to carry 5 wedges to gap your bag properly .As you say the modern muscle back is no longer something to be feared .Another thing with game improvement irons is that they are geared towards anti slicing ,no good if you play a draw .Good to see a proper test done ,your test guy mr 15 handicapper should put those cobras in the bag .
Wouldn’t the more comparable reality be comparing the bladed 7i and his game improvement 9?
You’re comparing spin numbers etc between the two 7 irons, but they are completely different clubs. I would love to see spin numbers etc when comparing a bladed 7i (34 degrees) and a game improvement 9 iron (34 degrees roughly). I hope you get the point I’m making. That just doesn’t seem like an apples to apples test. Bring him back in!
Love the vids!
100% get your point, but all of that was really just a by-product of the test. It was really just about what drop off we would see on bad hits. Which for that you need the same head weight. the rest of added info was just to make sure people are aware of the differences when they are buying and being fitted and how sometimes game improvement irons can actually be very bad for your game.
This is a true marketing verse fitting comparison… great video. I also don't think the club manufacturers will mind because blades are generally more expensive lol
It would be interesting to know the difference between the MB 5 iron and the Darkspeed 7 iron, which have similar lofts, as to how hard it is to hit either consistently.
As I said in the video I wouldn't recommend him play blades in the longer irons, well I wouldn't recommend he plays blades at all, this was just more of a fun test of forgiveness. Comparing any 5 iron to a 7 iron would never really be a fair test for a mid handicap golfer. They will always struggle more with the 5 iron due to length.
great video, educational, keep doing what your doing
Thanks drew 👍
Very interesting! I agree you need to hit clubs and balls and not pigeon hole yourself. I’m using a Bridgestone that “doesn’t fit” but I gained distance and spin though I’m not fast enough for it. It is a real time investment to hit different manufactures and different models but clubs are an investment these days.
Great channel!!