It finally clicked! Sephiroth's plan from the very beginning (of Remake) was to make a bigger more powerful Black Materia, because he knew the one he used in OG wasn't enough. He tricked them in Remake to break the timeline specifically to create infinite/many universes to feed infinitely more hatred & sorrow into the materia, building its power as each alternate timeline dies. This is exactly why they included the whole scene explaining how the Gi made the Black Materia. We're going into Part 3 with Cloud wielding a vastly more powerful Black Materia on his way to hand it to OG Sephiroth.
So the version of One Winged Angel in Remake was called “One Winged Angel: Rebirth,” giving us the subtitle for the second game. In the second game, Rebirth, the version of One Winged Angel is called, “One Winged Angel: Reborn.” So game 3, “Final Fantasy VII: Reborn?”
I noticed this a WHILE back, and I agree that it's definitely foreshadowing, but this time around, I feel like it's a little too similar to Rebirth's title, too, be the case. BUT at the same time, it very well could be.
I always thought Reunion would’ve been the best title for the 3rd game but they’re already had it for the Crisis Core Remake. Reborn may sound too similar to rebirth but I guess we’ll see.
In an interview it was stated that they originally wanted Reunion to be the subtitle of Part 2, but since Crisis Core had it they were unable to use it so the naming convention of One Winged Angel wasn’t done purposefully.
I agree with Max's point that Cloud falling in his delusion that Aerith is still alive is in character because he did the same with his mom (he blocks out moments of her when he returns to Nibelheim) and Zack (literally blocks the entire context of his death and even rewrites it to be an event he couldn't do anything about when in reality he could have potentially done something if he hadn't been mako poisoned). All those deaths are related to his own incapacity to do anything to prevent them, three people he cared about and cherished a lot.
Sure, but it’s definitely more complicated than that. They aren’t going to introduce timeline hopping and overcoming fate just to do the same game with a hallucination plot.
@@stevendouglas3781 Simply Jenova preventing the memories. Rewriting them. And I think people are confused. He got S cells put into him (Cloud). (Which are Sephiroth cells - which are fetus infused with Jenova cells). This is why Sephiroth has such a control over him.
God I remember this, I stayed up the entire night watching it even though I went in at 4 to work the next day. Just kept listening during it, kept me up with the hype
He did, he said so in an interview or a panel or something. Said there were a few lines he read that had a lot of emotion and weight behind them, to the point where the director and people listening in were getting kinda emotional.
@@call_me_state280 he definitely will. I’ll even go as far as saying that not only we’ll see Cloud accepting Aerith’s death and laying her to rest in the lake, no, that moment will be a playable sequence where the player will actively carry her body to the lake. Just to hammer in the reality of the situation.
The entire ending is Tifa taking one big L. Tifa: My best friend and only confidant just died... And now my love interest and oldest friend shut me out completely because he's become infatuated with a illusory version of my deceased friend he created to block out his own trauma... Now I can't speak to either of them... Talk about pouring salt in the wound. I just look at her and feel bad now.
Not saying you're wrong at all but I also think all of her trust in Cloud is shattered now. I think Tifa might be questioning whether Cloud killed Aerith in another freak out episode like he had when he attacked Tifa.
@@0saintclark0 Nah everyone all saw Sephiroth standing beside Cloud cradling Aerith's corpse so they know that Cloud didn't kill her. I think Tifa and the gang just lost all trust in Cloud, so they are most likely gonna be tiptoeing around him now since his mental state is on the verge of breaking. Right when the gang hops on the bronco you can see Barret's agitation is practically radiating off of him as he looks to the tight-lipped Tifa holding her peace on the matter, and you can tell without him even having to say anything that he firmly believes Cloud has mentally lost it to some degree after everything they've been through.
Tifa is 20 years old if i remember right. Have you ever met a girl of this age? They don't lead, they follow, and there is no leader so she is just crushed under the weight of the situation and doesn't know what to do
About 19:00-19:30 in. "They've been cooking this shit forever." Thirty years. The same developers. No work of fiction has ever had this much time, love, and care put into it. We're not just in unknown FFVII territory, we're in full out unknown fiction territory. From here on out, we can only guess. Thank's a lot, Arsonius, or Max Dood. Whoever you are; keep rockin' on!!!!
I would argue that Brandon Sanderson’s work on the Cosmere will be approaching this. He’s 20 years in and has built up an incredible universe thus far. Funny enough, Brandon has cited being a huge FF fan and even used FFX as inspiration for one of his stories.
Omg a 5 hour video of Max talking about FFVII. Sign me up!! Also 4:51:16 I believe the real Black Materia is still the temple. If you here as Cloud and Aerith fall together, the temple implodes into an object and falls straight down. It down there I believe Cloud gets the Black Materia that's in his pocket at the end of the game. Just my theory.
@@someoneelse9680 i also thought about multiple cloud's doing it and it can very well link with advent children where you see his 'afterimages' on each of the blades. but at the end of the day it just very much depends on how they execute it. 😁
They actually show how it could look like in the theater play, Cloud literally start teleporting to grab the swords to attack Barret and Nanaki. Also, Cloud using the power from the lifestream to divide himself to use a special attack sounds really cool. It is almost like he is using a type of Materia.
I come back to this video all the time, because I can never get enough of Max and his almost child like wonder with this series. Only person outside of myself that i've even met that could just sit and talk up theories for this series.
I just started imagining Ghost Aerith being a creepy background character in Part 3, like in cutscenes when you look closely you can see her staring at Cloud or something.
The core things that Sephiroth feeds off is why Aerith is the perfect counter. He gains power from your grief, which is why Awrith always tries to bring joy and happiness to weaken him.
I think it’s going to be Remember. Remember you’re not him cloud. Remember so the memories could restore the white materia. Remember the true events of Nibelheim. Remember that you really didn’t save her. Remake, Rebirth, Remember
Her excitedly saying, "Do you promise," right at the end when Cloud mentions that he would stop Sephiroth sells me on this theory. Aerith would NEVER have responded that way. From the moment Cloud looks up at Scaerith at the edge of the water I get bad vibes. The music is unsettling, and the way she looks is too. Something is very wrong. Something beyond Clouds fucked up mind. It could just be a delusion, but I don't think it is. I'm like 80/20. A lot of people mention Nanaki sensing Aerith like its some smoking gun completely disproving this theory, but Jenova tricked him in the OG. I don't blindly trust his special senses. They're senses, and senses can be fooled.
You can also tell it’s a facsimile IMO because of how she does nothing but quote lines from earlier in their adventures. The only exception is when she talks about meteor which is weird because I don’t even think that’s Sephiroth’s stated goal at this point. They’ve all had visions of it for certain and know what the black materia is but in this game that is what the Gi are up to. She’s clearly some made up version of Aerith using Cloud’s memory and his expectations of what Aerith might want or might say. Cloud did the same damned thing earlier in the game when he quoted Sephiroth in the materia cave. She’s creepy AF. In my first play through and first time seeing her I immediately had red flags that Cloud was either seeing a weird illusion or that it was Jenova. They didn’t frame her face in darkness and follow it up with a dead eyed smile by accident.
I watched this .... I think it is aerith... He also said about the red glint in her eyes on another pod .... That's just reflection of the bronco..... I think it's too deep here in theory. She is part of the stream looking out for her buds most probably
@@jakesewell15 If she was looking out for her friends she would've told cloud to take care of himself, like she and tifa have been telling him the ENTIRE game. Focusing on dealing with sephiroth and believing that aerith is alive is going to lead to a scene where Sephiroth tells could that she's dead and then tifa or someone confirms it, and it breaks him. If that was actually Aerith, she'd want him to start processing his grief NOW so it doesn't destroy him then, but she doesn't say that. She encourages the exact opposite.
Yes, you are correct. Imo, it's definitely jenova and not the real Aerith. If you remember their conversation in the sleeping forest, Aerith tells cloud not to worry about Sephiroth, that only she can stop him, and to focus on himself, finding his true self. There's no way our Aerith would make cloud promise to stop Sephiroth. "Those you love, those you hate, Jenova will become anyone to fool her prey." And IIRC, Jenova did the same exact thing that she did with the cetra, to cloud now. Tricking him by pretending to be a loved one who has clearly passed away. I'm seems Jenova is quite the creature of habit isn't she? Lol. My theory about the plot is that everyone is tied to their fate, for it is the will of the Planet itself. No matter what choices anyone makes on the planet, eventually their fate catches up with them. We saw this with Wedge when he fell to his death, like he did at the pillar. We saw this with Biggs when he got shot and died by Shinra Infantrymen, like he did at the pillar. We saw it with Zack a few times, and every time, the Shinra Army caught up to him and got him. We see this with Aerith, at the church when she pushes cloud into he flowers and you see sephiroth entering the church doors behind her. Sephiroth figured out by traveling the lifestream, that no matter what choices he makes, cloud will always come to kill him by throwing him off of something to his death just like he did at the Nibel Reactor, and that his original plan(the original game) after he dies and returns to the lifestream ends up in failure, because he is fated to lose to cloud no matter what. How can he make himself win and become a God? By breaking the ties to fate itself. The entire planets fate and everything in and on it. "Cloud, lend me your strength, let us defy destiny together." The lifestream is starting to merge into a hateful, angry, bitter, and violent "deathstream," and Sephiroth can't wait to merge all life itself, into death. If he wants to, he could reshape the planet into his own image after the merge, and Meteor is summoned. But yeah, the main goal sephiroth wants to accomplish right now is to untie himself and everyone in the lifestream and on the planet to their fates. How he is doing it? Well, we don't quote know exactly, but we do know he has it figured out. It seems Aerith also has this "sort of" figured out lol. I think Zack is her wild card in Sephiroth's plans, but I don't know for sure. I just have a hunch with everything going on. Okay I better stop now lol cause this comment is really long lol. Sorry, I just really love to speculate and theorize about FFVII remake. The original is my all-time favorite video game. I know it's cliché, and I don't care lol. Thank you for your time. 🤝✌️✨️
@@LunalovaniaGaming holy essay, batman. Props to working on all this. I think the "fate comes back to you" thing with Biggs and Zack was obvious to us all, but I never extrapolated that to Sephiroth as well.
Nanaki was also experimented on by Shinra in a similar way to Cloud. This could explain why he can sense "Aerith" (almost certainly Jenova or Sephiroth or Jenova/Sephiroth) at the end. With the real Aerith saying goodbye at the very end of the cinematic. He could also be experiencing something we weren't meant or allowed to see yet. But I'm 75% sure the Shinra connection is the key.
@@e.t.gohome8042 No. You're coping. Aerith is dead and that is NOT her in the final scenes. Max is spot on with the jenova manipulation and the fact that its the less popular theory only proves how subversive to most peoples expectations it is. It is all a manipulation. Aerith in that final scene is just a soundboard, its all memories and lines she has said in the past, word for word, either in remake or rebirth. It is a mimic of a dead person. It is Jenova.
@@grayfarron5077 I’m actually not coping. We actually don’t know what happen to Aerith and I agree she is probably dead. However, that doesn’t explain why Red senses her and why that scene is objectively portrayed in a positive manner, even after they leave. There is even a shot that focuses on Aerith shoes which is exactly what is done at the church on the dream date. It’s foolish to room out the possibly that she is a spirit that can somehow still be sensed by Cloud.
What Im expecting is when Cloud's mind breaks at the Northern Crater in Part 3, the black robes will surround him like Roche and put him in a black robes, and he will wear that and be in the wheelchair at probably Dr. Sherin's clinic until Tifa helps fix his mind and he takes it off. That would incredible.
4:23:30 Plot twist, the Gi are a race of people that fled to Gaia from their home that was being eaten way my Jenova, and Jenova followed them to Gaia.
@@LanceTheDragonMastah don't be a weirdo, ffx is horrible and thankfully there will never be a crossover. there have been multiple easter eggs in ff games that elude to them being in the same universes but it's all just a joke
Our Aerith: Don’t worry about Sephiroth, I can handle him, he must be stopped by a CETRA, AND IM THE LAST. Jenova/Aerith: Do you promise you’ll stop Sephiroth for me Cloud?
It's just a bad translation. In the Japanese translation he didn't promise her and she didn't say that here I think it's the true translation for the Japanese one but I'm not truly sure okay. Cloud: Will you be okay on your way home? Aerith What if I say it's not okay? Aerith This is Cetra's place. Cloud What If something happens Aerith I'll give you a signal. Cloud Okay, I won't miss it. Aerith: I'll pray a lot to stop the meteor. So Cloud, do your best. Cloud: Hurry and find Sephiroth and defeat him. Aerith: I'm sure!! Cloud I'm sure :) Well I guess it's the same but only the promise is not there.
@@jodaakbr7227 that’s an entirely different conversation, not a translation mistake. ‘I’ll stop Sephiroth’ is not the same as ‘go find Sephiroth’. ‘I’m sure’ is not the same as ‘promise?’. If your translation is the correct one, than the English translation is completely wrong and switched up the character’s motivations.
@@jonesy6354 I personally don’t think so either, but honestly why not? Jenova (and for that matter Sephiroth) clearly have the ability to do so. They both did it before and Jenova basically wiped out the entire Cetra people with that tactic. So yeah, while I agree with you, unless you can give a waterproof reason why Jenova isn’t pretending to be Aerith, it’s definitely a possibility.
This is so good after watching the recent Rebirth event where the devs talked about the intentions behind the ending. Max was so right. Again thank you for the great vod!
3:34:52 I noticed that the first time. I wondered what the hell Jenovah Aerith was talking about a meteor?? That had never been brought up in these games, yet.
A big part of the "rainbows" hunt/theory is actually..the fandom kind of getting it right. The rainbows mean something, its.. apart of clouds delusion. The rainbows shroud and dull the harsh reality and kind of smudges out everything that doesnt line up with the "dream" he is creating. Especially in the scene at 4:11:00 where cloud leans down to Aerith on the ground, the rest of the party is THERE.. but suddenly they are gone as Cloud picks up Aerith and says "Hey, wake up." and everything is fine and dandy. The rainbows arent a sign of timelines splitting, its a sign of cloud's psyche splitting.
@@Locustskies Just because rainbows exist doesnt mean theyre all related, the rainbow symbolism in the saving aerith scene is all it applies to here. Your logic that all rainbows are the same thing would also disprove the "Oh well rainbows mean a timeline has split" so... are you saying everytime cloud goes into the moogle world its a timeline split..?
@@grayfarron5077 You said yourself that the rainbows are a theory. I noticed the same rainbow applies to the mogstools and just thought I’d point that out. Who knows if the rainbow is a mark of a new timeline? Or what it all means since no one is supposed to figure this out. I have three theories myself for an ending regardless of the timelines. All that they prove is that both Sephiroth and Aerith can control them.
Ehh I don’t think so, man. We very cleary already have a motif for Cloud’s mental state. It’s the static glitching. Whatever the rainbow is it’s obviously magical.
I think people playing rebirth were split into two groups after playing through to the end - whether they were confused about the ending or not. Those who were confused were _more or less_ successfully junctioned onto Cloud by the developers, as a means to be invested into playing part 3. Those that are following along and are not confused (I.e believe Aerith is dead/alive in the lifestream, cloud being controlled by Sephiroth/tricked by Jenova, timeline fuckery is done and over with) are already along for the ride with part 3.
There's also those of us who followed along fine and still hated it; for focusing on multiverse 'plot' that we don't care about, at the expense of ruining the emotional impact of Aeriths death.
I always wanted a video like this Max talking FF 7 theories anytime Max talks about FF7 and what could happen in the next game gets so hyped thank you for making this video 💯
I believe Cloud saved her "in some way" and I wouldn't be surprised if Zack somehow meets up with Aerith and they have some input in the 3rd game together... Because we still haven't seen Zack and Aerith even say hi to each other.
Probably going to get a scene in part 3, where Cloud gets flashbacks to his post-death interactions with Aerith, but we'll see the green flicker switch her with Sephiroth. Also as someone with 3D-modelling/animation experience, I can say that the in-game models were likely modelled on top of the ones in the pre-rendered scene, then baked the textures from the pre-rendered models to the in-game models. But Aerith's pre-rendered model doesn't look like the in-game one. However it is possible they were made separately (Wouldn't make sense if you ask me though) or more complex shadering and lighting makes it look different.
4:05:02 Well since we're talking about reaches I already thought this was Jenova/Sephiroth, but I feel like the representation is in the eyes. All the particle effects around them reflect in her eyes, almost making the cat eyes like Seph has. Square Enix loves its subtle symbolism, and that's what I took from it. That's not WHY I think that's Jenova/Seph (the description of Jenova throughout Rebirth basically let me know what's what), but for me it slightly adds to it.
1:32:25 that happens in MK11's story (which is about timelines by the way), when Liu Kang fights Raiden and it starts showing all the different timelines in which that fight happens.
I think at 2:20:10 its Jenova in him that gets aware of whats up and she can use Clouds Fucked up State to later show up as her and tell him what to do. Like for example… to give Sephiroth back the Black Materia. Its fine :) Together with Sephiroth explaining to Cloud he was „lied“ to by Tifa. Something like that. Because for now we havent seen the good Jenova that is mentioned in the Mythologie. We have seen the Hate and Fear Version of her. Not the those we Love Version. Cloud thinks it is Tifa at one Point but thats as close as we get to it.
Excited for 3 odd ball things 1.)seeing how the party blames/ are pissed at Cloud as they are going to the Northern crater. Seeing everyone dive into hatred and paranoia is gunna be insane 2.) How much depth they are going to get into the War with Wutai, magnus materia, the Weapons, and the Return to Midgar. Christ, in the original you had to set red flags to not get lost in Gaea’s Cliff. We saw how huge the world was in Rebirth..Part 3 is going to fucking deliver. 3.) Clouds redemption. If they are going to go heavy into the despair early on… the payoff is going to be worth it.
"dont worry.... Its like a second home 😊" - aerith ".....i guess" - cloud cloud in his brain (probably): .....we're in the middle of a random feild on a random continent leaving on the only ride.... you're so quirky & silly 🤪
I finished this game today and Max melting his brain about Aerith mentioning the meteor and Cloud mentioning not looking up for basically no reason is so relatable lol
Max has the Aerith thing partially right IMO, but I think there are two Aerith's in that last scene, one before the flash he gets when he holds the materia and one after. They are two different Aerith's, one is real in the lifestream before the flash, and one after the flash that is a fake projection of Aerith by Jenova.
I was really against the Aetith is in his mind idea. But with the 'wake up' scene it may lead to that being part of that. But, with Aetith showing up to fight, the rainbow cloud sword deflect, and the broken sky that only Cloud can see- there's still at least 1 Aetith left alive. They'll use the 1 Aetith alive the same way they did the Life stream Aetith from OG. Also, when the timelines converge to 1 at the end of the game, we get to see the final timeline Aerith die again. Cause of course they would do that.
I agree. The final boss battle Aerith is Omni Aerith and then Cloud holds two different timeline versions of her. But when they’re sitting by the water one just appears, as if actively running interference against Cloud waking up.
Coming back to watch this makes me think, what if FF7R devs are watching this and saying "damn, Max got us, change of plans everyone" and does something completely different to the plot? That lives rent-free in my mind,just for funsies XD
About the Cloud question. One of the best things in this game, is how Cloud holds his Sword in the intro Nibalheim section VS how he holds it in the present. They contrast this at one of the final Sephiroth fights as well.
2:53:48 What's even more fascinating about this is, one of the developers (I think Nomura) filled in some context to explain that Aerith also doesn't like the sky because she feels that's what took her mother away from her and she also essentially associates it with boundless terrifying freedom.
Imo, the main plot here is that everyone is tied to their fate by the will of the planet itself. No matter what cloud does, Aerith will always die by sephiroths hand, one way or another. We saw that play out at the church where sephiroth was coming up behind her to kill her as she was pushing Cloud into the "rainbow portal" on the ground. No matter what Zack does, he is always going to be pursued by the Shinra Army and be killed by them. We saw it twice, when he went to go ask hojo how to save cloud and Shinra infantrymen meet him there, and we saw him and Biggs being killed by Shinra infantrymen, because they are fated to die by their hands. Sephiroth, no matter what he does, Cloud will always end up killing Sephiroth. Sephiroth is always destined to lose, because he is tied to his fate by the will of the planet. Sephiroths goal, is to break the ties of fate itself,for not only him, but for everyone. He really thinks he's the hero, and that all the death and destruction is justified because he sees it as saving them. He wants to merge with the planet itself, turning himself into a God, or the Planet itself to be precise. He will be the only one remaining due to Jenova. He then has technically saved everyone from pain and suffering. If he wants to, he could then reshape the planet(himself) into the utopia where fate does not ever apply. I love speculating and theorizing about FFVII. I can't wait for part 3!! 💕🤝✨️
If aerith is jenova, then that means all the distortion going on during her death scene is jenova deleting clouds memories, and putting different memories in literally in the moment. Cloud is the key to sephiroths victory, so when he gets to the northern crater, all of this will make him go to the edge. Because not only will Sephiroth reveal to cloud that aerith is dead, but also that he isn’t who he thinks he is. Maybe this will set cloud overboard and make him succumb to jenova (joining Sephiroth). This is where Zack comes in, taking his spot. Essentially these games are merely a sequel of Sephiroth going back in time and trying to influence cloud in a better fashion.
The shot Max discusses at 1:59:00 is nearly a 1:1 match with a shot in Advent Children - the scene Sephiroth explains his goal of using the planet as vessel to travel the cosmos. It's right before the actual fight between Cloud and Sephiroth starts.
I think Aerith and Sephiroth in this Trilogy are the Visual Explanation of Lifestream White and Black. Literally. While Sephiroth takes over his Clones but Aerith doesnt want that. She doesnt like that Approach its explained. And everything that happens so far ads up 100% with what happens in the two Games. + some other new Aspects. But in Generell its that Story.
Well, tbf, i also think Jenova at some Point WILL explain to Cloud that Jenova-Aerith was a Fake and only there to manipulate him. In the Crater it makes the most Sense to me. But i might be wrong here. Maybe Sephiroth and Jenova are just playing together to get the Black Materia and thats it. Maybe we get the Tifa and Cloud Lifestream Szene after that and Tifa explains to Cloud that Aerith is gone and he needs to accept that is the Case because otherwise Jenova might always be able to get back and fuck him up. Hmmm. I like that outcome honestly where Cloud no longer is the „Master of his own illusionary Reality“ as he calls it in he OG.
What if FF7 remake project is what happens inside Cloud's mind when he has a mental breakdown and ends up in a wheelchair? So in part 3 of the remake after he's cured, the events can play out just like in the original. It would explain why Cloud and Aerith are the ones who see the hole in the sky.
The Arieth in Zack's world...I can't help but feel there is a connection with the clear material and her being in a coma. That version of Areith is undetectable by Sephiroth. I wonder all the different world Arieth will channel into that body closer to the end. Almost like the matrix Arieth is neo and Sephiroth is agent smith. 🤔
Aerith (jenova) is basically leading him on in the Rebirth ending. Saying she'll stop meteor so that after cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia he won't feel guilty & think it was part of Aeriths plan or that she can stop meteor. Also in Remake by her house when she says "whatever happens you cant fall in love with me it isnt real" shes referring to After Sephiroth kills her, that shes already dead & The aerith he is talking to ISNT her. Also I'd like to add that During the Ancient temple while the Cetra is giving dialogue it says, Jenova stole the faces of dead people, Mothers, fathers, son & daughters..
If I had to hazard a guess, I’d predict that Zack will eventually converge with the Remake/Rebirth timeline in some shape or form (like we briefly saw in this game). The game might build toward a convergence as part of the climax or final act, where Zack’s role will be a key point in determining the outcome of the story. His presence could lead to new possibilities for the characters' fates, with a similar ending like the main timeline (original FFVII), but with a different outcome for the character roster.
50:58 I think this is Aerith right away communicating from the lifestream to help ease Cloud's burden for the present. She say how devistated he would be in the OG timeline, and so she seeks to help ease his suffering temporarilly for him to get shit done. But going into part 3, he becomes unwilling to let her go and sinks into this delusion that she's still alive. So the heartbreak moment will definitly come in the future.
2:02:45 we actually do know how cloud got memories of the other world. It was shown in remake. It was when he got in contact with aerith with the arbiters of Fate. When she gave him the flower.
Was a great watch :), one thing i wish i could was forget both remake/rebirth so i can play them back to back like they are the first time :), it does scare me thinking we only got 1 game left then its all over. I don't want it to ever end want it to be a constant mystery. one thing i did notice is Cait Sith predictions the first two predictions the toys eyes blink Green, but the final one his eye blink red, maybe a subtle hint that the final prediction isn't written in stone yet?
I was just playing through again and I noticed when you hear the cetra voice explaining their fight with jenova in the temple of the ancients (when you see the green hologram of it), it says that it "is a deceiver who steals the faces of the dead", or something along those lines. Now that I hear that, I really do think Jenova is going to be using Aerith to haunt cloud in the next game, and at least some of what you see are her at the end of the game is jenova. I think it's a mix of his own mental block, her actual spirit, and jenova coming in at different moments. I think jenova is going to be a big part of his visions of aerith going forward though.
@4:27:20 i thought the same. Red can sense her so it cant be Jenova but in the OG game when you choose to give the Black Materia to Red to protect even he gets fooled by Sephiroth immatating one of the party members and even he couldn't sense the difference. That's why I believe Aerith is Jenova using Cloud to get the Black Materia to Sephiroth physical form.
Your content has been so nice to follow when it comes to FF7, because you're probably as passionate and knowledgeable as me. And I love to see that same drive I got in someone else. xD
With you 100% came to that conclusion also. Ending Aerith is Jenova. The music tells the story. When they're mourning by the lake too, music is hella creepy.
The big theme of the original Final Fantasy VII is about dealing with death - dealing with loss. Now the Remake/Rebirth Final Fantasy VII's are focusing on one of the most important aspects of dealing with death / loss - accepting it. These games are about getting the fans to accept the death of Aerith.
Imho, the people who can see the "fucky sky" as how max puts it, are the ones who have...merged together with other versions of themselves. Aerith and cloud obviously chief among them. Cloud seeing an alive and dead aerith at the same time and causing a split himself. Just a theory i guess Alao i think the aerith he saved is the "omni aerith". Cuz she says in the final fight. "I saw what you did back there, thank you." Either she was watching. Or she was the one who was literally saved.
44:13 When looking with the perspective that the REUNION is that the timelines converge/merge in to the one where sepi sepi is alive aka the new primary one. You would be right that sepi sepi could change the timeline to always be that She dies. Didnt think about this, but it makes so much sense. edit: 46:55 that effect on buster sword looks like Lifestream it self. Like pure lifestream edit: 1:20:12 Zack reality aerith who is "soulless/in coma" will get the Soul from Clouds reality aerith, and aerith is back alive again. Then in the end She will stay with zack, because she is supposed to be dead in Clouds reality.. Heard it here first. You can see similiar thing happen in 1:48:20 when Cloud enters other timeline clouds Soulless body. edit: 1:39:46 The ending credit wrap up on the Train, and then it goes trough by few scenes from original and wraps the whole story how it went in original with PS1 gameplay footage and the real cradits come when OG cloud wins now restored timeline... Damn that would be a peak, doubt it will happen tough. edit 3:27:58 I dont agree with dood, i do think that might actually be aerith, she does affect people like in Advent. and in Ending of OG ff7 where marlene goes "flower girl?". So this might just be Cetra thing where she can still travel linearally with time with these people who are still alive. "be next to them" because they still remember her strongly so she can remain next to them, and maybe cloud can see her because of the jenova cells, being jenova is heavily polluting the lifestream. Tought the aerith after death when sitting next to tifa, was MEGA creepy definetly had that "uncanny valley" feeling of something is off, and migh be right that it was a jenova. So then there are 2 aeriths. first one that is the one that is UNSEEN but is next to other people being her self like a "spirit", like in ending cinematic. The 2nd is the one cloud sees, like when holding her corpse or before getting in to the bronco at the end, telling to wakeup and when sitting next to tifa. aka = cloud is fucked up bad, hope he goes limb soon, need to hero to wake up. Basicly you cannot trust ANYTHING cloud sees or does, but if cloud is not interacting with aerith like in ending where Aerith is seen on the background looking at barret and the gang fixing bronco then that one is real one, the Spirit aerith.
It finally clicked! Sephiroth's plan from the very beginning (of Remake) was to make a bigger more powerful Black Materia, because he knew the one he used in OG wasn't enough. He tricked them in Remake to break the timeline specifically to create infinite/many universes to feed infinitely more hatred & sorrow into the materia, building its power as each alternate timeline dies. This is exactly why they included the whole scene explaining how the Gi made the Black Materia. We're going into Part 3 with Cloud wielding a vastly more powerful Black Materia on his way to hand it to OG Sephiroth.
Once again thank you so much. Almost 5 hours of this has me beyond hyped.
W
An absolute goat
Can’t get enough of Max talking about FF7
If only we didn’t have to wait years for the finale 😞
@@StarfireVR$**&*,v🎉***3
Tifa and Yuffie crying at the end while the men disassociate by focusing on fixing the bronco is kinda based writing actually.
yeah, the writing in this game is awesome
meanwhile, Cloud is just chilling on the hill staring at an empty ball, not helping
@ well cloud is autistic so this is well within character. They really nailed it.
Misuse of the slang "based". Just like "cringe" this word has become popular amongst the unintelligent and "basic bitches" of our Era.
Cloud is Sigma-Coded lol
So the version of One Winged Angel in Remake was called “One Winged Angel: Rebirth,” giving us the subtitle for the second game. In the second game, Rebirth, the version of One Winged Angel is called, “One Winged Angel: Reborn.” So game 3, “Final Fantasy VII: Reborn?”
I noticed this a WHILE back, and I agree that it's definitely foreshadowing, but this time around, I feel like it's a little too similar to Rebirth's title, too, be the case. BUT at the same time, it very well could be.
I always thought Reunion would’ve been the best title for the 3rd game but they’re already had it for the Crisis Core Remake.
Reborn may sound too similar to rebirth but I guess we’ll see.
What about Final Fantasy VII: Revival?
It's possible it's Reborn. In terms of language, Rebirth is pre-tense(before being born) and Reborn is present-past tense
In an interview it was stated that they originally wanted Reunion to be the subtitle of Part 2, but since Crisis Core had it they were unable to use it so the naming convention of One Winged Angel wasn’t done purposefully.
I agree with Max's point that Cloud falling in his delusion that Aerith is still alive is in character because he did the same with his mom (he blocks out moments of her when he returns to Nibelheim) and Zack (literally blocks the entire context of his death and even rewrites it to be an event he couldn't do anything about when in reality he could have potentially done something if he hadn't been mako poisoned).
All those deaths are related to his own incapacity to do anything to prevent them, three people he cared about and cherished a lot.
Sure, but it’s definitely more complicated than that. They aren’t going to introduce timeline hopping and overcoming fate just to do the same game with a hallucination plot.
@@stevendouglas3781 Simply Jenova preventing the memories. Rewriting them.
And I think people are confused. He got S cells put into him (Cloud). (Which are Sephiroth cells - which are fetus infused with Jenova cells).
This is why Sephiroth has such a control over him.
There’s so many of these great moments that just get lost in all the vods
Thanks for the upload
God I remember this, I stayed up the entire night watching it even though I went in at 4 to work the next day. Just kept listening during it, kept me up with the hype
I want to believe that we'll eventually get to hear Cloud's monologue after Aerith's death. I need to hear Cody Christiansen read those lines, dude.
He did, he said so in an interview or a panel or something. Said there were a few lines he read that had a lot of emotion and weight behind them, to the point where the director and people listening in were getting kinda emotional.
@@RedheadButNotReallyugh this comment made me tear up and get goosebumps lol I hope you’re right
@@call_me_state280 he definitely will. I’ll even go as far as saying that not only we’ll see Cloud accepting Aerith’s death and laying her to rest in the lake, no, that moment will be a playable sequence where the player will actively carry her body to the lake. Just to hammer in the reality of the situation.
@@jarosbodytko6462 Oh fuck now if Cloud is the one who killed Aerith... that gonna haunt forever 💀
Same thing with aerith VA back in remake when cloud and aerith in the park talking about aerith's first love
The entire ending is Tifa taking one big L.
Tifa: My best friend and only confidant just died... And now my love interest and oldest friend shut me out completely because he's become infatuated with a illusory version of my deceased friend he created to block out his own trauma... Now I can't speak to either of them...
Talk about pouring salt in the wound. I just look at her and feel bad now.
Not saying you're wrong at all but I also think all of her trust in Cloud is shattered now. I think Tifa might be questioning whether Cloud killed Aerith in another freak out episode like he had when he attacked Tifa.
@@0saintclark0 Nah everyone all saw Sephiroth standing beside Cloud cradling Aerith's corpse so they know that Cloud didn't kill her. I think Tifa and the gang just lost all trust in Cloud, so they are most likely gonna be tiptoeing around him now since his mental state is on the verge of breaking. Right when the gang hops on the bronco you can see Barret's agitation is practically radiating off of him as he looks to the tight-lipped Tifa holding her peace on the matter, and you can tell without him even having to say anything that he firmly believes Cloud has mentally lost it to some degree after everything they've been through.
Tifa is a tragic character. She has people taken away from her her whole life
Tifa is 20 years old if i remember right. Have you ever met a girl of this age? They don't lead, they follow, and there is no leader so she is just crushed under the weight of the situation and doesn't know what to do
@@xrip75 Oh fuck off. If you’d played the original, you’d know everyone looks to Tifa to take over as leader of the party while Cloud is awol
“Arsonius, thank you dude.” -Max Dood
Please tell me he's actually said this
@@gamemincraft1234 he has, Arsonius regularly donates on his streams so he often says this
@@AncientCityMusic Looks like they even have a good agreement to wait a certain amount of time before uploading these. Love his community.
@@AncientCityMusic that's great
About 19:00-19:30 in. "They've been cooking this shit forever." Thirty years. The same developers. No work of fiction has ever had this much time, love, and care put into it. We're not just in unknown FFVII territory, we're in full out unknown fiction territory. From here on out, we can only guess. Thank's a lot, Arsonius, or Max Dood. Whoever you are; keep rockin' on!!!!
I would argue that Brandon Sanderson’s work on the Cosmere will be approaching this. He’s 20 years in and has built up an incredible universe thus far.
Funny enough, Brandon has cited being a huge FF fan and even used FFX as inspiration for one of his stories.
One Piece says hi lol
James Cameron sat on the Avatar script forever until the technology caught up to what he needed.
@@maxspecs just wanted to say that 😂
Twin peaks as well!
My favorite Max quote here was probably “Oh fuck. Oh fuck. Oh fuck dude.”
You channel is like the holy bible for any FF7 fan 🙌
I come back to the ffvii hype lore every few months
Omg a 5 hour video of Max talking about FFVII. Sign me up!! Also 4:51:16 I believe the real Black Materia is still the temple. If you here as Cloud and Aerith fall together, the temple implodes into an object and falls straight down. It down there I believe Cloud gets the Black Materia that's in his pocket at the end of the game. Just my theory.
oh man, stop😂
Finally!! I watched this live but I have perspective now and really wanted to watch this again lol thank you!!
Calling it now, omnislash Cloud will be various Clouds from different timelines slashing Sephiroth at the same time rather than just being fast as fu.
Wow, that’s a killer theory!
I actually thought of this too but it would be kinda lame would take away from it being just him and that being how he finally gets rid of Sephiroth
@@someoneelse9680 i also thought about multiple cloud's doing it and it can very well link with advent children where you see his 'afterimages' on each of the blades. but at the end of the day it just very much depends on how they execute it. 😁
That's cool.
But I think they're really being clear in avoiding the Time Cop paradox, in that only 1 can exist in a space at the time.
They actually show how it could look like in the theater play, Cloud literally start teleporting to grab the swords to attack Barret and Nanaki.
Also, Cloud using the power from the lifestream to divide himself to use a special attack sounds really cool.
It is almost like he is using a type of Materia.
I come back to this video all the time, because I can never get enough of Max and his almost child like wonder with this series. Only person outside of myself that i've even met that could just sit and talk up theories for this series.
I just started imagining Ghost Aerith being a creepy background character in Part 3, like in cutscenes when you look closely you can see her staring at Cloud or something.
😂😂😂
Imagine if she behaves like the Joker on the Arkham Knight game, where she IS there and talks with you, but only you.
The core things that Sephiroth feeds off is why Aerith is the perfect counter. He gains power from your grief, which is why Awrith always tries to bring joy and happiness to weaken him.
I think it’s going to be Remember.
Remember you’re not him cloud.
Remember so the memories could restore the white materia.
Remember the true events of Nibelheim.
Remember that you really didn’t save her.
Remake, Rebirth, Remember
Her excitedly saying, "Do you promise," right at the end when Cloud mentions that he would stop Sephiroth sells me on this theory. Aerith would NEVER have responded that way. From the moment Cloud looks up at Scaerith at the edge of the water I get bad vibes. The music is unsettling, and the way she looks is too. Something is very wrong. Something beyond Clouds fucked up mind. It could just be a delusion, but I don't think it is. I'm like 80/20. A lot of people mention Nanaki sensing Aerith like its some smoking gun completely disproving this theory, but Jenova tricked him in the OG. I don't blindly trust his special senses. They're senses, and senses can be fooled.
You can also tell it’s a facsimile IMO because of how she does nothing but quote lines from earlier in their adventures. The only exception is when she talks about meteor which is weird because I don’t even think that’s Sephiroth’s stated goal at this point. They’ve all had visions of it for certain and know what the black materia is but in this game that is what the Gi are up to. She’s clearly some made up version of Aerith using Cloud’s memory and his expectations of what Aerith might want or might say. Cloud did the same damned thing earlier in the game when he quoted Sephiroth in the materia cave. She’s creepy AF. In my first play through and first time seeing her I immediately had red flags that Cloud was either seeing a weird illusion or that it was Jenova. They didn’t frame her face in darkness and follow it up with a dead eyed smile by accident.
I watched this .... I think it is aerith... He also said about the red glint in her eyes on another pod .... That's just reflection of the bronco..... I think it's too deep here in theory. She is part of the stream looking out for her buds most probably
@@jakesewell15 If she was looking out for her friends she would've told cloud to take care of himself, like she and tifa have been telling him the ENTIRE game. Focusing on dealing with sephiroth and believing that aerith is alive is going to lead to a scene where Sephiroth tells could that she's dead and then tifa or someone confirms it, and it breaks him. If that was actually Aerith, she'd want him to start processing his grief NOW so it doesn't destroy him then, but she doesn't say that. She encourages the exact opposite.
Yes, you are correct.
Imo, it's definitely jenova and not the real Aerith. If you remember their conversation in the sleeping forest, Aerith tells cloud not to worry about Sephiroth, that only she can stop him, and to focus on himself, finding his true self.
There's no way our Aerith would make cloud promise to stop Sephiroth.
"Those you love, those you hate, Jenova will become anyone to fool her prey."
And IIRC, Jenova did the same exact thing that she did with the cetra, to cloud now. Tricking him by pretending to be a loved one who has clearly passed away.
I'm seems Jenova is quite the creature of habit isn't she? Lol.
My theory about the plot is that everyone is tied to their fate, for it is the will of the Planet itself.
No matter what choices anyone makes on the planet, eventually their fate catches up with them.
We saw this with Wedge when he fell to his death, like he did at the pillar. We saw this with Biggs when he got shot and died by Shinra Infantrymen, like he did at the pillar. We saw it with Zack a few times, and every time, the Shinra Army caught up to him and got him. We see this with Aerith, at the church when she pushes cloud into he flowers and you see sephiroth entering the church doors behind her.
Sephiroth figured out by traveling the lifestream, that no matter what choices he makes, cloud will always come to kill him by throwing him off of something to his death just like he did at the Nibel Reactor, and that his original plan(the original game) after he dies and returns to the lifestream ends up in failure, because he is fated to lose to cloud no matter what.
How can he make himself win and become a God? By breaking the ties to fate itself. The entire planets fate and everything in and on it.
"Cloud, lend me your strength, let us defy destiny together."
The lifestream is starting to merge into a hateful, angry, bitter, and violent "deathstream," and Sephiroth can't wait to merge all life itself, into death.
If he wants to, he could reshape the planet into his own image after the merge, and Meteor is summoned.
But yeah, the main goal sephiroth wants to accomplish right now is to untie himself and everyone in the lifestream and on the planet to their fates. How he is doing it? Well, we don't quote know exactly, but we do know he has it figured out.
It seems Aerith also has this "sort of" figured out lol. I think Zack is her wild card in Sephiroth's plans, but I don't know for sure. I just have a hunch with everything going on.
Okay I better stop now lol cause this comment is really long lol.
Sorry, I just really love to speculate and theorize about FFVII remake. The original is my all-time favorite video game. I know it's cliché, and I don't care lol.
Thank you for your time. 🤝✌️✨️
@@LunalovaniaGaming holy essay, batman.
Props to working on all this. I think the "fate comes back to you" thing with Biggs and Zack was obvious to us all, but I never extrapolated that to Sephiroth as well.
Nanaki was also experimented on by Shinra in a similar way to Cloud. This could explain why he can sense "Aerith" (almost certainly Jenova or Sephiroth or Jenova/Sephiroth) at the end. With the real Aerith saying goodbye at the very end of the cinematic.
He could also be experiencing something we weren't meant or allowed to see yet. But I'm 75% sure the Shinra connection is the key.
This. This is exactly it.
Well it could be that or the connection being that Aerith wants Cloud to see her and Red can sense her because he’s close to the Planet.
@@e.t.gohome8042 No. You're coping. Aerith is dead and that is NOT her in the final scenes. Max is spot on with the jenova manipulation and the fact that its the less popular theory only proves how subversive to most peoples expectations it is. It is all a manipulation.
Aerith in that final scene is just a soundboard, its all memories and lines she has said in the past, word for word, either in remake or rebirth. It is a mimic of a dead person. It is Jenova.
@@grayfarron5077 I’m actually not coping. We actually don’t know what happen to Aerith and I agree she is probably dead. However, that doesn’t explain why Red senses her and why that scene is objectively portrayed in a positive manner, even after they leave. There is even a shot that focuses on Aerith shoes which is exactly what is done at the church on the dream date. It’s foolish to room out the possibly that she is a spirit that can somehow still be sensed by Cloud.
@@e.t.gohome8042 man i cant wait to come back to this.comment in a few years
Cloud can’t have a trial based on his past because he doesn’t even know or acknowledge his true past
What Im expecting is when Cloud's mind breaks at the Northern Crater in Part 3, the black robes will surround him like Roche and put him in a black robes, and he will wear that and be in the wheelchair at probably Dr. Sherin's clinic until Tifa helps fix his mind and he takes it off. That would incredible.
I could listen to max talk about ff7 forever. Never gets old
Thank you so much for this. I was watching live when he beat it and really enjoyed the discussion he had with chat after.
2:10:38 This Sephiroth guy sounds like a really nice person. He wants to make sure everyone has dis pear! 🍐😮
4:23:30 Plot twist, the Gi are a race of people that fled to Gaia from their home that was being eaten way my Jenova, and Jenova followed them to Gaia.
Were the Gi from Spira, maybe?
Their planet was dying, the cetra came on Gaia and absorbed their planet, leaving them with nowhere to die
god they better not be from spira. no ffx in my ffvii please, the whole thing was a joke
@@xrip75 crap opinion alert wee Woo Wee woo
@@LanceTheDragonMastah don't be a weirdo, ffx is horrible and thankfully there will never be a crossover. there have been multiple easter eggs in ff games that elude to them being in the same universes but it's all just a joke
Our Aerith:
Don’t worry about Sephiroth, I can handle him, he must be stopped by a CETRA, AND IM THE LAST.
Jenova/Aerith:
Do you promise you’ll stop Sephiroth for me Cloud?
It's just a bad translation. In the Japanese translation he didn't promise her and she didn't say that here I think it's the true translation for the Japanese one but I'm not truly sure okay.
Cloud: Will you be okay on your way home?
Aerith
What if I say it's not okay?
Aerith
This is Cetra's place.
Cloud
What
If something happens
Aerith
I'll give you a signal.
Cloud
Okay, I won't miss it.
Aerith: I'll pray a lot to stop the meteor.
So Cloud, do your best.
Cloud: Hurry and find Sephiroth and defeat him.
Aerith: I'm sure!!
Cloud
I'm sure :)
Well I guess it's the same but only the promise is not there.
Jenova isn't pretending to be Aerith lmao
@@jodaakbr7227 that’s an entirely different conversation, not a translation mistake. ‘I’ll stop Sephiroth’ is not the same as ‘go find Sephiroth’. ‘I’m sure’ is not the same as ‘promise?’. If your translation is the correct one, than the English translation is completely wrong and switched up the character’s motivations.
@@jonesy6354 I personally don’t think so either, but honestly why not? Jenova (and for that matter Sephiroth) clearly have the ability to do so. They both did it before and Jenova basically wiped out the entire Cetra people with that tactic. So yeah, while I agree with you, unless you can give a waterproof reason why Jenova isn’t pretending to be Aerith, it’s definitely a possibility.
@@jarosbodytko6462yeah they’ve paid so much attention to detail I doubt they’d let that one slip. I’m not Japanese but they can’t be that far off.
This is so good after watching the recent Rebirth event where the devs talked about the intentions behind the ending. Max was so right.
Again thank you for the great vod!
3:34:52 I noticed that the first time. I wondered what the hell Jenovah Aerith was talking about a meteor?? That had never been brought up in these games, yet.
Literally finished the game a few hours before this video came out. Perfect timing 🙌 tyty
watched this live stream. been missing the game so i’m happy to see this upload ❤
I think Aeris will still be playable but only Cloud can do stuff with her and the party will be like ‘who tf are you talking to?’
Im a firm believer that this will all come down to the whole story being the rebuilding of Clouds memories in lifestream in Mideel.
Yessss let’s go!! This will get me through work for the next week at least.
YEESSS thank you dood! Love it when you get us this stuff
Thank you 🙏
I'm gonna go ahead now and say that Zack is going to sacrifice himself in the final game to save Cloud.
A big part of the "rainbows" hunt/theory is actually..the fandom kind of getting it right. The rainbows mean something, its.. apart of clouds delusion. The rainbows shroud and dull the harsh reality and kind of smudges out everything that doesnt line up with the "dream" he is creating. Especially in the scene at 4:11:00 where cloud leans down to Aerith on the ground, the rest of the party is THERE.. but suddenly they are gone as Cloud picks up Aerith and says "Hey, wake up." and everything is fine and dandy.
The rainbows arent a sign of timelines splitting, its a sign of cloud's psyche splitting.
So rainbows that are in the Mogstools are just a part of Cloud’s delusion? The group can see the mogstools and the moogle shop. It’s the same rainbow.
@@Locustskies Just because rainbows exist doesnt mean theyre all related, the rainbow symbolism in the saving aerith scene is all it applies to here.
Your logic that all rainbows are the same thing would also disprove the "Oh well rainbows mean a timeline has split" so... are you saying everytime cloud goes into the moogle world its a timeline split..?
@@grayfarron5077
You said yourself that the rainbows are a theory.
I noticed the same rainbow applies to the mogstools and just thought I’d point that out. Who knows if the rainbow is a mark of a new timeline? Or what it all means since no one is supposed to figure this out.
I have three theories myself for an ending regardless of the timelines. All that they prove is that both Sephiroth and Aerith can control them.
I like this theory but how does that explain the rainbow that shows up in the subway tunnel when Zack has to decide whether to save Bigs or Cloud?
Ehh I don’t think so, man. We very cleary already have a motif for Cloud’s mental state. It’s the static glitching.
Whatever the rainbow is it’s obviously magical.
I think people playing rebirth were split into two groups after playing through to the end - whether they were confused about the ending or not. Those who were confused were _more or less_ successfully junctioned onto Cloud by the developers, as a means to be invested into playing part 3.
Those that are following along and are not confused (I.e believe Aerith is dead/alive in the lifestream, cloud being controlled by Sephiroth/tricked by Jenova, timeline fuckery is done and over with) are already along for the ride with part 3.
There never was any “timeline fuckery” it only became a thing cos of content creators
There's also those of us who followed along fine and still hated it; for focusing on multiverse 'plot' that we don't care about, at the expense of ruining the emotional impact of Aeriths death.
@@RL-vr8kp there is no “multiverse plot”
I always wanted a video like this Max talking FF 7 theories anytime Max talks about FF7 and what could happen in the next game gets so hyped thank you for making this video 💯
I believe Cloud saved her "in some way" and I wouldn't be surprised if Zack somehow meets up with Aerith and they have some input in the 3rd game together...
Because we still haven't seen Zack and Aerith even say hi to each other.
Probably going to get a scene in part 3, where Cloud gets flashbacks to his post-death interactions with Aerith, but we'll see the green flicker switch her with Sephiroth.
Also as someone with 3D-modelling/animation experience, I can say that the in-game models were likely modelled on top of the ones in the pre-rendered scene, then baked the textures from the pre-rendered models to the in-game models.
But Aerith's pre-rendered model doesn't look like the in-game one. However it is possible they were made separately (Wouldn't make sense if you ask me though) or more complex shadering and lighting makes it look different.
4:05:02 Well since we're talking about reaches I already thought this was Jenova/Sephiroth, but I feel like the representation is in the eyes. All the particle effects around them reflect in her eyes, almost making the cat eyes like Seph has. Square Enix loves its subtle symbolism, and that's what I took from it. That's not WHY I think that's Jenova/Seph (the description of Jenova throughout Rebirth basically let me know what's what), but for me it slightly adds to it.
In the og I spent hours believing aerith was alive then had to accept she died. They are doing it again and I love it.
1:32:25 that happens in MK11's story (which is about timelines by the way),
when Liu Kang fights Raiden and it starts showing all the different timelines in which that fight happens.
Man this was such a treat to hear Max talk about ReBirth. Everybody is ready for the conclusion to this. I’m gonna listen to this again.
I think at 2:20:10 its Jenova in him that gets aware of whats up and she can use Clouds Fucked up State to later show up as her and tell him what to do. Like for example… to give Sephiroth back the Black Materia. Its fine :) Together with Sephiroth explaining to Cloud he was „lied“ to by Tifa. Something like that. Because for now we havent seen the good Jenova that is mentioned in the Mythologie. We have seen the Hate and Fear Version of her. Not the those we Love Version. Cloud thinks it is Tifa at one Point but thats as close as we get to it.
Comatose aerith had the terrier stamp, the dream date stamp is the pomeranian, also having to wait till at least 2027 suuuucks
Excited for 3 odd ball things
1.)seeing how the party blames/ are pissed at Cloud as they are going to the Northern crater. Seeing everyone dive into hatred and paranoia is gunna be insane
2.) How much depth they are going to get into the War with Wutai, magnus materia, the Weapons, and the Return to Midgar. Christ, in the original you had to set red flags to not get lost in Gaea’s Cliff. We saw how huge the world was in Rebirth..Part 3 is going to fucking deliver.
3.) Clouds redemption. If they are going to go heavy into the despair early on… the payoff is going to be worth it.
"dont worry.... Its like a second home 😊" - aerith
".....i guess" - cloud
cloud in his brain (probably): .....we're in the middle of a random feild on a random continent leaving on the only ride.... you're so quirky & silly 🤪
It is funny how much his theories have changed, and even now its quite different than it was then with more info becoming available. haha
I finished this game today and Max melting his brain about Aerith mentioning the meteor and Cloud mentioning not looking up for basically no reason is so relatable lol
Max has the Aerith thing partially right IMO, but I think there are two Aerith's in that last scene, one before the flash he gets when he holds the materia and one after. They are two different Aerith's, one is real in the lifestream before the flash, and one after the flash that is a fake projection of Aerith by Jenova.
I was really against the Aetith is in his mind idea. But with the 'wake up' scene it may lead to that being part of that.
But, with Aetith showing up to fight, the rainbow cloud sword deflect, and the broken sky that only Cloud can see- there's still at least 1 Aetith left alive.
They'll use the 1 Aetith alive the same way they did the Life stream Aetith from OG.
Also, when the timelines converge to 1 at the end of the game, we get to see the final timeline Aerith die again.
Cause of course they would do that.
I agree. The final boss battle Aerith is Omni Aerith and then Cloud holds two different timeline versions of her. But when they’re sitting by the water one just appears, as if actively running interference against Cloud waking up.
Coming back to watch this makes me think, what if FF7R devs are watching this and saying "damn, Max got us, change of plans everyone" and does something completely different to the plot?
That lives rent-free in my mind,just for funsies XD
Thank you for this Arsonius!!!
22:46.
I figured he was talking about the promise that Cloud and company made to bring the black materia back to him.
Thank you for uploading this!
About the Cloud question.
One of the best things in this game, is how Cloud holds his Sword in the intro Nibalheim section VS how he holds it in the present.
They contrast this at one of the final Sephiroth fights as well.
2:53:48 What's even more fascinating about this is, one of the developers (I think Nomura) filled in some context to explain that Aerith also doesn't like the sky because she feels that's what took her mother away from her and she also essentially associates it with boundless terrifying freedom.
Fantastic stream! Thank you.
Imo, the main plot here is that everyone is tied to their fate by the will of the planet itself.
No matter what cloud does, Aerith will always die by sephiroths hand, one way or another. We saw that play out at the church where sephiroth was coming up behind her to kill her as she was pushing Cloud into the "rainbow portal" on the ground.
No matter what Zack does, he is always going to be pursued by the Shinra Army and be killed by them. We saw it twice, when he went to go ask hojo how to save cloud and Shinra infantrymen meet him there, and we saw him and Biggs being killed by Shinra infantrymen, because they are fated to die by their hands.
Sephiroth, no matter what he does, Cloud will always end up killing Sephiroth. Sephiroth is always destined to lose, because he is tied to his fate by the will of the planet.
Sephiroths goal, is to break the ties of fate itself,for not only him, but for everyone. He really thinks he's the hero, and that all the death and destruction is justified because he sees it as saving them. He wants to merge with the planet itself, turning himself into a God, or the Planet itself to be precise. He will be the only one remaining due to Jenova. He then has technically saved everyone from pain and suffering.
If he wants to, he could then reshape the planet(himself) into the utopia where fate does not ever apply.
I love speculating and theorizing about FFVII. I can't wait for part 3!!
💕🤝✨️
I love your speculation and theories, it’s great!
I think Aerith became Jenovaerith the moment Cloud slotted the black materia into his sword.
No everything after the funeral is Jenova-Aerith. It's debatable whether anything after the kill and up until the funeral is Jenova.
@@k2d271specifically when he glitches her into appearing at the lake.
To upscale his combat, he will go into "Mosey mode" and it will be his strongest form! 2:50:04
They are making us play the game for the first time again. Ty SE.
It’s so funny seeing Omni-Max react to Max’s video
Awesome video I watched it all in one sitting lol, just really needed something to distract me from the bittersweet post game depression
If aerith is jenova, then that means all the distortion going on during her death scene is jenova deleting clouds memories, and putting different memories in literally in the moment. Cloud is the key to sephiroths victory, so when he gets to the northern crater, all of this will make him go to the edge.
Because not only will Sephiroth reveal to cloud that aerith is dead, but also that he isn’t who he thinks he is. Maybe this will set cloud overboard and make him succumb to jenova (joining Sephiroth). This is where Zack comes in, taking his spot.
Essentially these games are merely a sequel of Sephiroth going back in time and trying to influence cloud in a better fashion.
well thats my commute listening sorted for the next week :)
True
The shot Max discusses at 1:59:00 is nearly a 1:1 match with a shot in Advent Children - the scene Sephiroth explains his goal of using the planet as vessel to travel the cosmos. It's right before the actual fight between Cloud and Sephiroth starts.
I think Aerith and Sephiroth in this Trilogy are the Visual Explanation of Lifestream White and Black. Literally. While Sephiroth takes over his Clones but Aerith doesnt want that. She doesnt like that Approach its explained. And everything that happens so far ads up 100% with what happens in the two Games. + some other new Aspects. But in Generell its that Story.
Well, tbf, i also think Jenova at some Point WILL explain to Cloud that Jenova-Aerith was a Fake and only there to manipulate him. In the Crater it makes the most Sense to me. But i might be wrong here. Maybe Sephiroth and Jenova are just playing together to get the Black Materia and thats it. Maybe we get the Tifa and Cloud Lifestream Szene after that and Tifa explains to Cloud that Aerith is gone and he needs to accept that is the Case because otherwise Jenova might always be able to get back and fuck him up. Hmmm. I like that outcome honestly where Cloud no longer is the „Master of his own illusionary Reality“ as he calls it in he OG.
Fun fact: Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 as well as OG FF7 were written by the same person
I just realized... Sephiroths sword is in two different places after it lands... it changes when the crackle happens... MY GOD HES ON TO SOMETHING!
Love you max, thanks for all the ff7 content
I think Cloud realizing who he is will be emotional and inspiring.
It may winde up being longer. You have to remember....they're adding wutai the weapons underwater and Ariel
Longer than 4 years? They have to tie up ALL loose ends too.
What if FF7 remake project is what happens inside Cloud's mind when he has a mental breakdown and ends up in a wheelchair?
So in part 3 of the remake after he's cured, the events can play out just like in the original.
It would explain why Cloud and Aerith are the ones who see the hole in the sky.
The Arieth in Zack's world...I can't help but feel there is a connection with the clear material and her being in a coma. That version of Areith is undetectable by Sephiroth. I wonder all the different world Arieth will channel into that body closer to the end. Almost like the matrix Arieth is neo and Sephiroth is agent smith. 🤔
Love your content max always❤️
Aerith (jenova) is basically leading him on in the Rebirth ending. Saying she'll stop meteor so that after cloud gives Sephiroth the black materia he won't feel guilty & think it was part of Aeriths plan or that she can stop meteor. Also in Remake by her house when she says "whatever happens you cant fall in love with me it isnt real" shes referring to After Sephiroth kills her, that shes already dead & The aerith he is talking to ISNT her.
Also I'd like to add that During the Ancient temple while the Cetra is giving dialogue it says, Jenova stole the faces of dead people, Mothers, fathers, son & daughters..
If I had to hazard a guess, I’d predict that Zack will eventually converge with the Remake/Rebirth timeline in some shape or form (like we briefly saw in this game). The game might build toward a convergence as part of the climax or final act, where Zack’s role will be a key point in determining the outcome of the story. His presence could lead to new possibilities for the characters' fates, with a similar ending like the main timeline (original FFVII), but with a different outcome for the character roster.
50:58 I think this is Aerith right away communicating from the lifestream to help ease Cloud's burden for the present. She say how devistated he would be in the OG timeline, and so she seeks to help ease his suffering temporarilly for him to get shit done. But going into part 3, he becomes unwilling to let her go and sinks into this delusion that she's still alive. So the heartbreak moment will definitly come in the future.
2:02:45 we actually do know how cloud got memories of the other world. It was shown in remake. It was when he got in contact with aerith with the arbiters of Fate. When she gave him the flower.
Was a great watch :), one thing i wish i could was forget both remake/rebirth so i can play them back to back like they are the first time :), it does scare me thinking we only got 1 game left then its all over. I don't want it to ever end want it to be a constant mystery.
one thing i did notice is Cait Sith predictions the first two predictions the toys eyes blink Green, but the final one his eye blink red, maybe a subtle hint that the final prediction isn't written in stone yet?
Big big big change is that in the OG the temple itself is the black materia and once it shrinks it has the materia shape.
Theory: Knight of the Round quest line will explain how Aerith becomes a summonable deity
Thanks for posting this
Always remember the immortal words: "What I have shown you is reality. What you remember... that is the illusion."
I was just playing through again and I noticed when you hear the cetra voice explaining their fight with jenova in the temple of the ancients (when you see the green hologram of it), it says that it "is a deceiver who steals the faces of the dead", or something along those lines. Now that I hear that, I really do think Jenova is going to be using Aerith to haunt cloud in the next game, and at least some of what you see are her at the end of the game is jenova. I think it's a mix of his own mental block, her actual spirit, and jenova coming in at different moments. I think jenova is going to be a big part of his visions of aerith going forward though.
@4:27:20 i thought the same. Red can sense her so it cant be Jenova but in the OG game when you choose to give the Black Materia to Red to protect even he gets fooled by Sephiroth immatating one of the party members and even he couldn't sense the difference.
That's why I believe Aerith is Jenova using Cloud to get the Black Materia to Sephiroth physical form.
Your content has been so nice to follow when it comes to FF7, because you're probably as passionate and knowledgeable as me. And I love to see that same drive I got in someone else. xD
I keep hearing Sephiroth's name being in places where we should be saying Jenova. We know they're two different beings this time around.
With you 100% came to that conclusion also. Ending Aerith is Jenova. The music tells the story. When they're mourning by the lake too, music is hella creepy.
The big theme of the original Final Fantasy VII is about dealing with death - dealing with loss.
Now the Remake/Rebirth Final Fantasy VII's are focusing on one of the most important aspects of dealing with death / loss - accepting it.
These games are about getting the fans to accept the death of Aerith.
Tip: You can stop Sephiroths Octaslash with Zack’s High Braver if you time it right. Thought it was pretty sick!
The same ripple thats in the sky is also seen when clouds being put back together in og
Imho, the people who can see the "fucky sky" as how max puts it, are the ones who have...merged together with other versions of themselves. Aerith and cloud obviously chief among them. Cloud seeing an alive and dead aerith at the same time and causing a split himself. Just a theory i guess
Alao i think the aerith he saved is the "omni aerith". Cuz she says in the final fight. "I saw what you did back there, thank you." Either she was watching. Or she was the one who was literally saved.
44:13 When looking with the perspective that the REUNION is that the timelines converge/merge in to the one where sepi sepi is alive aka the new primary one.
You would be right that sepi sepi could change the timeline to always be that She dies.
Didnt think about this, but it makes so much sense.
edit: 46:55 that effect on buster sword looks like Lifestream it self. Like pure lifestream
edit: 1:20:12 Zack reality aerith who is "soulless/in coma" will get the Soul from Clouds reality aerith, and aerith is back alive again. Then in the end She will stay with zack, because she is supposed to be dead in Clouds reality.. Heard it here first.
You can see similiar thing happen in 1:48:20 when Cloud enters other timeline clouds Soulless body.
edit: 1:39:46 The ending credit wrap up on the Train, and then it goes trough by few scenes from original and wraps the whole story how it went in original with PS1 gameplay footage and the real cradits come when OG cloud wins now restored timeline... Damn that would be a peak, doubt it will happen tough.
edit 3:27:58 I dont agree with dood, i do think that might actually be aerith, she does affect people like in Advent. and in Ending of OG ff7 where marlene goes "flower girl?". So this might just be Cetra thing where she can still travel linearally with time with these people who are still alive. "be next to them" because they still remember her strongly so she can remain next to them, and maybe cloud can see her because of the jenova cells, being jenova is heavily polluting the lifestream. Tought the aerith after death when sitting next to tifa, was MEGA creepy definetly had that "uncanny valley" feeling of something is off, and migh be right that it was a jenova.
So then there are 2 aeriths. first one that is the one that is UNSEEN but is next to other people being her self like a "spirit", like in ending cinematic.
The 2nd is the one cloud sees, like when holding her corpse or before getting in to the bronco at the end, telling to wakeup and when sitting next to tifa.
aka = cloud is fucked up bad, hope he goes limb soon, need to hero to wake up.
Basicly you cannot trust ANYTHING cloud sees or does, but if cloud is not interacting with aerith like in ending where Aerith is seen on the background looking at barret and the gang fixing bronco then that one is real one, the Spirit aerith.
Cloud created a new world in which she is alive, to keep his promise to Zack