Battery not big enough. They gave up a lot of potential battery for aesthetics. Your bike sitting behind you in this video has the right idea. They could of doubled the distance on a single charge. But for the money I suppose that makes since. But you won’t be touring around town very long riding that bike.
Would love to know if they're going to provide a warranty, and the details on said warranty. Also, will I be able to finance it through normal banks and credit unions, and/or will they offer Affirm(like on their e-bikes) for the $5,000 price tag?
Yeah...they're gonna need to work on bringing that price down. The Harley name/brand/image isn't going to be enough to convince riders to spend that much on a bike
@@trowantechworks I agree - and wonder who Harley's target market and ideal customer is for the Livewire? Is it a young RUB (rich urban biker)? Someone who owns an ICE Harley already or no? Someone who has an EV such as a tesla? So many questions that I would imagine have at the very least been asked in board meetings...
@@brethanson6961 my opinion only, their target audience is dying off. A lot of the younger generation myself included (although I'm not a member of the younger generation), look at those things like they're death traps. I've seen so many people get scraped off the pavement over the years. Unless you start riding a motorcycle when you're young,you have no business getting on one in your forties and fifties. A lot of people going through their midlife crisis buying them in their 40s and 50s end up dead. I don't think it's the electrical Revolution that's going to be their downfall as much as the roads are more and more crowded these days are getting worse every day there's more more potholes and people just drive like s***. Hitting the pavement at 50, 60 miles an hour just doesn't seem worth the risk
1:53 Those stats don't add up unless they were going like 19 mph for most of the trip. lol I put my my $100 down for the Metacycle. Was looking at a Zero motorcycles but I'm not willing to pay around 20k for an electric bike. Please ask about the secondary battery where the empty hole is. Hopefully they make that battery in a shape you can grab on to with your legs. Just subbed to your channel. Looking forward to more information on the Metacycle.
Yeah, one of the most attractive things about this bike is the price range. I'm working to get more details about the accessories. Will let you know when I find out.
This is how I’m feeling. I’m leaning into the moto space from ebikes and something electric like this even with 50m range is really appealing for that price.
Ordered mine in January getting Q3 also (flat black/supermassive color). Found out from a recent email question I sent to Sondors that it will have a key fob type ignition for another layer of security. Just thought y'all would like to know that since it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere!
Don’t talk so much in the lead-in, please. I tend to hit the like button @ the beginning of the a video. I can always change my mind. If the video doesn’t get my attention I’m gone. So... I’m paying $700.00 per month for a Metacycle which is planned for release in October. I ordered it within a minute of receiving the email announcement. So I hope I’m close to the front of the line. I bought an original, a Fold-X and currently have an XS. Also some stock in the ebike company and the car company. Any info on the car would be great. Thanks for the video.
Looking at how to Carry a second battery That clips right in and that can be attached to the bike ready willing and able , rather than carry it in a backpack at some 50 pounds extra! One of my favorite 3hr ride is from Willow Glen San Jose to Alice’s Restaurant Woodside and back ......about 70 miles .......1600 ft altitude change up the mountain to Highway 35 Skyline...or the trip over the mts to Capitola Beach and back , up and down the Old San Jose Highway corkscrewing through the redwoods .... need the range!
Here are my predictions: The 21700 cells will be a China branded cell. The frame will definitely not be a 1pc. cast, forged, billet, whatever. There is no way they can afford the production cost of that process while keeping retail at $5k. The frame will most likely be cast in separate pieces and welded together. The manufacturer can easily grind down the welds to make the frame look seamless. You will never hit the 80 mile range unless you cruise at 12-15mph.
Another great video. I don't plan to buy this motorcycle, but I am really excited for what it might do to the industry. I have a 2010 Brammo Enertia, and I'm building my own motorcycle out of an old yamaha and a 12kw continuous (24kw peak) motor also from QS motor.
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Wow that's an old school bike now, did you get it at Best Buy back in the day? Brammo had some cool race bikes in 2012, 2013 and I got to see them up close and personal in the TTXGP races. Can't wait to see your build, it sounds awesome. Which Yamaha frame are you using? You going to make some videos on it? If I can get a garage sometime soon, I'm going to do an older bike conversion.
@@trowantechworksI got the Brammo second hand with only 4000 miles on it. I wanted something to play around with while I finished building my other bike. The bike I'm using is a yamaha xs750. I'm going to upload a whole build log video when I get it done. I've taken lots of photos and video clips. It's been an interesting adventure to be sure. But it should be worth it in the end.
I'm a deposit holder in the UK, do you think I'll get delivery this year and will it be a $5,000 (£4,000) bike? I've been a rider for 35 years but in the last four I've had a Nissan Leaf and really don't want a gas bike, so I'm hoping the Metacycle will come true!
You seem to have some math skills? If I throw a nova bomb at a crayon eating titan from 40 meters up, 35 meters away, and the nova bomb travels at 7.8 meters/s how dead is that crayon eating titan? #GottaKnowTheAnswer #ItsMyDestiny
Guestion for the factory friend. What kind of charging connections there will be? Is it possible to charge from normal house outlet, out side in rain? Will the charger handle different weathers?
question to ask "The Guy". will the signal lights (Turn Signals) be adjusted for the UK Market? will it be road legal for the UK MARKET? i have placed my order from Sondors europe. was told OCT 2021 so let's see.
Sounds like the range will be less than advertised. Will owners be able to charge them at the free electric car charging stations that seem to be popping up everywhere?
I ordered one of these and am pretty excited. I’m new to electric motorcycles. I’m curious if 8K nominal and 14.5K watts peak power is considered fast? I know they say it’ll go 80mph, but would there be decent acceleration?
Excellent sleuthing. Ask that guy about the range extender you mentioned in an earlier video. That frame is waiting for it. The "let the chinese build it" effect is with us to stay. and it isn't new either. Ever heard about an island called Taiwan? The only trouble is that we loose the ability to do anything more then talk and talk and talk ourselves. Basically the "industrial heartlands" of North America and Europe now lie at the other side of the world.
"that's enuf Spekah-Late-In'" hahah. great video. yur awesome and extremely scientific. thinking about dropping a hundo for sondors reservation. thanks!
Any mention as to whether the battery change will increase range? Also, did "the guy" offer any reason behind needing to pay in full instead of just a deposit until they actually have a DOT approved production motorcycle?
@@trowantechworks strongly agree ;-) maybe, pardon the pun, more battery news will trickle out in the next few weeks. just mentioning Tesla will get folks charged up.
Great video. Thanks for the info. I'm very curious now about the accessories that are going in that hole, like the extra battery and level 2 charger. Keep up the awesome content. ⚡🏍️💨
Thanks for the feedback! I'm working to get more details on the accessories. It sounds like Sondors might not even have the fine details about them yet.
Ask them what slope of incline would be nominal for the 14.5kw motor. I guess 45 degree slope would be a showstopper. Let's ask them for a total weight of 375 pounds, how steep is nominal or maximum. Thanks for you great research. I was going to use it on mountain trails that are about 30 degree slopes.
ditto on the pre-order, will there be any access to 12vdc for accessories, any USB qc3 outlets for folks without wireless charging.also the instrument pod looks to indicate gearing, how is this? I hope the production is as good or better than prototype
At first I really wanted one of these but I do have a handicap...or affliction, I just hate hub motors. I am thinking a Sur Ron with a new controller and 72v battery would come up to about the same price, be faster and not have a hub motor...hmm
Hey, you finally responded to my inquiries... with a video. X) Having said that, still a bit skeptical. Still have my $100 down. One thing that wasn't touched on - cue another heavy dose of skepticism.... who's fixing this when it breaks down?
You :-) !?! How much do you charge, do you take appointments? I do wonder about this myself. How much of the bike is just a basic motorcycle that any good mechanic could fix, and how much of it is cutting edge/new/private tech that would need to go back to HQ?
It looks and sounds like it’s all off the shelf parts. The motor and controller are. The brakes are. I think whatever breaks , you just remove and replace either under warranty or or on your own if the warranty is over. There is not going to be any carb rebuilds, valve adjusting, exhaust swapping, chain adjusting, or anything related to current or past bikes. I’m so ready for that since I will be learning carb rebuilding this spring, or paying someone to do it.
@@kenmcclow8963 carb rebuilding? I build motorcycles and mopeds. Carbs are pretty easy. What are you learning it in regards to? Enjoy! As for the other points, I haven’t heard anything about a warranty. So who handles that when they sell 1,000 units? Or 10,000? Or 100,000? Regardless I’ve already put the $100 down, I’m just very skeptical.
I think we're all skeptical, to varying degrees. And if you're not skeptical, I'd be worried. I think most shops can handle repairing just about anything that breaks, as most of it will just be replacement. I will dig into this and find out.
@@joemen9042fault errors as well, I want to see error logs so I can know what is a controller, BMS, or motor issue so I know what is a defect, a fix, or if a replacement is needed
So far I've heard nothing. The motor controller will be programmed from the factory, but I have no details on whether there will be some sort of vehicle control unit running independent of the motor controller. There will need to be in order to have a mobile app. I could probably come up with a universal system that just plugs into the bike. Im building one for myself now.
@@trowantechworks nice. I've only used an app called Mayi-BMS on Android which connects via bluetooth and I'm able change controller settings. I doubt they'll go that far but at least something like the sur ron app to fine tune speed modes.
@trowan good video, SUBBED, your knowledge and sense of humor seem good. Questions(5) I have: I weigh an ⅛th of a ton(250lbs), did they confirm max for weight of rider and cargo,, Do they have any plans for a rider + passenger version,, Do you have final sales price confirmation,,Are there any energy credit/eco tax of government money discounts for buying this e-vehicle,, I'm an engineer and design CAD/3D so I have some good invention ideas for the hole area, how can one get CAD/3D data to start designing accessories and how does one get access/in the pipeline to make approved accessories. You Rock, Thank You, sincerely George/Ohio PEACE & HEALTH🌍🌎🌏
Since it is a commuter emc, ask for a copy of the new EPA/DOT MPGe sticker for an electric vehicle (EV): kilowatt-hours per 100 miles (kWh/100m); mpg-equivalent (MPGe); annual electricity cost; and cruising range. And the same battery demonstration & details for the proposed accessory battery (to fit in the upper void) including its price, weight, charge time, warranty, availability date, etc. Also, the dimension for the phone recharging compartment?
Hey I'm wondering if you could leave some more feedback. Feedback is great, and I'm really lucky that you decided to leave feedback. If you could find it in your heart to leave some more feedback I'd really appreciate it. No but thank you for real, I really appreciate it.
Haven't watched this yet (on break at work), but looking forward to hearing if you have any metacycle updates beyond what I've been scouring the internet for each day. Thank you for the videos, I'm enjoying your format so far (& of course the topic) =]
@@trowantechworks I did! Enjoying your energy & the presentation of information... I think you said a thing or two from your interaction with "the guy" that was insightful and fingers crossed you'll get to see a metacycle in person soon... Either way I'm good with hearing the same things I've read repeated back to me on these update videos... Highly digestible content =]
The Guy might be Storms Tech Moufpiece,,Mr.Matt? Irish,using a Voice changer.jk.I ordered the Rockstar n Metacycle..I live in DTLA,where they filmed the Metacycle promo..Chiong. Robin Hoodloom on IG
Hey Jake, the bike is pretty small so putting a second person on there might be a bit difficult. In terms of performance impact, I will run some numbers to find out. Gonna do another video with some updated simulation
Unless and until each state starts to address what kind of vehicle this will be classified as street use is sketchy at best. If they can comply with the minimums say Chinese ICE scooters meet they could be licensed in every state .
in the follow up interview Electrek did shortly after the product launch, DOT reqs and (details like turn signals were discussed.) idk how states and DOT legal stuff is squared with each other. i'm optimistic that someone must be doing due diligence so it can be sold as a product, and not as a kit or owner/builder custom creation.
I would pay 5k as advertised if that was the price delivered in the UK and registered for road use. I suspect this wont be the case so I'll stick to DIY ebikes which are actually more fun.
Can you ask the guy if there will be an additional battery that can be added to the hole above the battery in the middle of the frame to extend the range of the bike?
@@trowantechworks that's great hope it ads a good amount of range. Would like to see if they can put an eco mode for people who aren't going on the freeway all the time. Eco and sport mode option would be great.
I could give you theoretical times all day..but we really need to just ride it to find out. I'm sure it's decent in the lower end, but I'd be more worried about torque in the top end
Just email them..I’ve emailed them 3 times & they’ve answered every question except for U.K shipping costs..0-60 is 6 seconds but this is likely to improve due to sports mode still being tested/improved 👍
I'm wondering why the small battery? With 2700 cells you would think that Sondors would go with a 96 or 100 volt system. Which brings me to another question, what classification will the metacycle fall within? I'm an electric scooter rider and this bike has peaked my curiosity a few times but I cringe at the thought of taxes, tags, insurance regulations, and possibly having to obtain a motorcycles license.
I think the frame itself was a one of the main deciding factors for the battery format. They could have optimized the frame space for an 8kWh battery, but that goes against their "low cost" ideology, so a smaller battery pack was probably always the plan. The Metacycle is a motorcycle, so you will need all of the things that you just mentioned that you cringe at.
Its a motorcycle and you will need insurance and a license plate. Dont worry about motorcycle school - I watched 2 girls drive in a straight line through a cone weave obstacle without weaving at all and they somehow passed lol. I'm not sure if it's state or federal, but there is a 10% EV tax credit on these that will help offset some of the extra costs. Way better than an ebike
I ordered the metacycle in December. The website said 100 deposit but they billed my card $5000. I cancelled my order and I have been trying to get my money back ever since. Today they sent me an email asking if I would like to reinstate my order. I guess they think I might rather have the bike than nothing. They are wrong. I know how they treat customers if something fails guaranteed you are left in the cold. These people do not care about their customers at all. I'll sue to get my money back. Better than trying to sue if I get a lemon. Just telling you about my experience with this company, take it for what it's worth.
Nothing in the battery case! Empty! Sondor is all style and looks but they do not work or perform as advertised! I going to wait for Tesla and Honda to come out with an electric bike and motorcycle. They usually underestimate the performance all time in their vehicles, Honda last? Update: Metacycle seat height went from 31.5 to 34.0 with new thick foam seat.
Just wanted to leave a comment about how manufacturing works in China by US-based companies. We turn the other cheek when outsourcing, because it’s a calculated risk that they could copy our products and re-sell it cheaper. But the reason we do that is because the products we make will be sold mostly in the US and not worldwide. Whereas in China they can copy and resell in China. No skin of our backs. But a lot has changed since Alibaba and e-commerce being as prevalent as it is. Still, it’s a small impact on the bottom line.
2 questions I need answered before I buy any product Where can you take a SONDORS E Bike to be repaired or tuned up that’s my biggest concern about buying on I really like the MXS and now after your video I have another in mind . When you buy say a Giant bike it’s sent to a bike shop that puts it together for you and you can bring it to any bike shop that is a distributor for service. thanks in advance for your time
My issue with Sondors their after purchase support. For their eBikes its almost non-existent. If that is the case for the Metacycle, then it is a hard pass from me.
The reason they can keep their prices so low is by not having extensive support or warranties. For me, that is a plus. YOLO. As long as your gamble pays off (not getting a lemon) and you treat it well it should be good! :P
@@rpg9392 I'm always amused at the position that the lack of service is some sort of benefit and using price as the excuse is a winning argument. As someone who is keeping an eye on their car, this matters to me immensely. BTW, I own a Sondors Thin and love it.
Loving the channel man you're way undersubbed. The discussion about Sondors changing up the bars got me wondering if there's any way to determine what kind of brake and throttle controls they'll be using (maybe more stuff from QSmotor?) and their compatibility with existing aftermarket clip ons. I got to thinking about it after the range video they posted had some kind of bar brace blocking the view of the display the entire time. I understand why they wouldn't fit clip ons from the factory as the aggressive riding position isn't going to be right for everyone, but on a naked bike like the Metacycle there should be appreciable range and speed benefits to a more aerodynamic riding position.
Thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying the content! I don't have any details as to what they're using for throttle and brake. I'd guess with this price point, that most parts will be of mid to lower quality Chinese scooter parts. But I could be wrong. I will work to get more details. You're right, a more "prone" position would be more aerodynamic friendly, however most people will likely opt to ride sitting up for city commuting.
@@trowantechworks im also thinking adjustable rear sets. never really seen the pegs in most of the metacycle vids. gotta wonder what the mount looks like, and what thirdparty or oem flavor are suitable for cross-pollination usage. hopefully, for an item as ubictouous as a foot-peg, replacements are easy to get, if on the off chance, the bike goes down.... (due to no fault of yours of course)
the Sondors spec said Bybre brakes. i bet the same assembly units that are compatible with the WP suspension. the throttle twist grip must be working ok with the controller on the press bike, so, maybe it comes from Votol as a pair. imho, the "cockpit" looked real nice in the announcement vids and web pics.
Waiting for your follow up now that two or three have been delivered. I know ppl are pissed that the battery is not removable. 0-45 on one video I saw saw 9-10 seconds watching the YT clock.
Great update! I am very curious about the accessories still. Is there more info on options to stick in the empty space? I also think it would be cool to mix n match a white bike with a black battery or something...
Thanks Bret. I don't have any details yet on thr accessories, I'm working on it. Sondors is probably still working on it too.. I like the idea of mix n match color schemes. Almost like they should let you build the bike you want. I'm sure it somehow costs more money to do that
I’ve emailed them a few times & they’ve been happy to answer all of my questions..they’re a hell of a lot more informative than this fella or anybody else on RUclips
Great video, I'm quite interested in this model, so I'll have an eye on your next videos. This, though, is probably a more general question. What's usually the autonomy difference like when regarding slopes? I live by 30 Km from work (~22 miles?), but a 'mountain' of 155m heigh is in between. Not sure a 60-80 miles range would guarantee getting home without having to ask for a toll. Any thoughts?
They are asking people who have already put money down to pay in full withing 14 days or be removed from the preorder list (that they have already put money down for). This is crazy to demand full payment for something that hasn't even hit dealers, especially when there was an existing agreement in place from when the initial deposit was made. They try to play it off like they are upgrading your order but then note that if you don't pay you'll be removed, also stated is that they will still not be accountable for delivering on time if you pay in full. You should do a video on it, I am happy to send you the email. This is not how you support your customer base who were willing to throw money down early on.
Hmmm...this doesn't sound right. You mind forwarding the email to me? alwaysfwd1234@gmail.com. Sounds like Sondors is hard up for some cash up front. I'll include it in the next video, thanks for sharing.
@@trowantechworks Sent, also with a PDF of the original message in case they edit it. Sounds like they just wanna help you get it faster but then take a look at the fine print under the motorcycle image.
I paid in full in the first batch and got an email saying they are adding more people to the Q3 delivery list but I will be first priority and will receive an additional thank you gift in the mail prior to delivery. I assume they are only bumping Q4 orders to Q3 if they paid in full because they can only bump a limited number of people? You can probably keep your monthly payments but you'll get it Q4 as originally intended? You'd think they'd just bump Q4 people to Q3 in the order they reserved, but there must be some financial logic to it. Perhaps they're trying to get as much fast cash possible to make the order as large as possible and further decrease prices. It seems silly to complain about being offered faster delivery if you pay in full - you don't have to do it and it wouldnt change your original Q4 order....
I'll wait for the 4th version, then I can get a Meta-phor!
I never gave you the credit that you deserved for this comment. Well done
👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾 Good one 😁
Let me ride it here in Los Banos Ca for people to see and and get people to buy.
Battery not big enough. They gave up a lot of potential battery for aesthetics. Your bike sitting behind you in this video has the right idea. They could of doubled the distance on a single charge. But for the money I suppose that makes since. But you won’t be touring around town very long riding that bike.
Would love to know if they're going to provide a warranty, and the details on said warranty. Also, will I be able to finance it through normal banks and credit unions, and/or will they offer Affirm(like on their e-bikes) for the $5,000 price tag?
I think they will finance it for $999 down now and 5 payments of $850.
I'll follow you on Twatter Ty!!! ROFL
🤣
Y Tyler so phyne 😍🥰 #feedback
I'm flattered. The best feedback I've gotten so far
What a scam is, is paying $40,000 for a Harley Davidson
Yeah...they're gonna need to work on bringing that price down. The Harley name/brand/image isn't going to be enough to convince riders to spend that much on a bike
@@trowantechworks I agree - and wonder who Harley's target market and ideal customer is for the Livewire? Is it a young RUB (rich urban biker)? Someone who owns an ICE Harley already or no? Someone who has an EV such as a tesla? So many questions that I would imagine have at the very least been asked in board meetings...
Harley is a stranded asset. They will not survive the electric transformation. Crushed by an avalanche of push rods . . .
@@brethanson6961 my opinion only, their target audience is dying off. A lot of the younger generation myself included (although I'm not a member of the younger generation), look at those things like they're death traps. I've seen so many people get scraped off the pavement over the years. Unless you start riding a motorcycle when you're young,you have no business getting on one in your forties and fifties. A lot of people going through their midlife crisis buying them in their 40s and 50s end up dead. I don't think it's the electrical Revolution that's going to be their downfall as much as the roads are more and more crowded these days are getting worse every day there's more more potholes and people just drive like s***. Hitting the pavement at 50, 60 miles an hour just doesn't seem worth the risk
@@marcs4091 hope I don't die
1:53 Those stats don't add up unless they were going like 19 mph for most of the trip. lol I put my my $100 down for the Metacycle. Was looking at a Zero motorcycles but I'm not willing to pay around 20k for an electric bike. Please ask about the secondary battery where the empty hole is. Hopefully they make that battery in a shape you can grab on to with your legs. Just subbed to your channel. Looking forward to more information on the Metacycle.
Yeah, one of the most attractive things about this bike is the price range. I'm working to get more details about the accessories. Will let you know when I find out.
Im considering putting down my $100, this company is legit right? Not tryma get scammed
Sounds like real range is gonna be like 50 miles or less once you get on a freeway. Sounds like a really nice city commuter!
Bingo!
This is how I’m feeling. I’m leaning into the moto space from ebikes and something electric like this even with 50m range is really appealing for that price.
Ordered mine in January getting Q3 also (flat black/supermassive color). Found out from a recent email question I sent to Sondors that it will have a key fob type ignition for another layer of security. Just thought y'all would like to know that since it doesn't seem to be documented anywhere!
Great info! Thanks for letting us know!
So when is your bike going to be there
@@timflexertram1230 september
Don’t talk so much in the lead-in, please. I tend to hit the like button @ the beginning of the a video. I can always change my mind. If the video doesn’t get my attention I’m gone. So...
I’m paying $700.00 per month for a Metacycle which is planned for release in October. I ordered it within a minute of receiving the email announcement. So I hope I’m close to the front of the line. I bought an original, a Fold-X and currently have an XS. Also some stock in the ebike company and the car company. Any info on the car would be great. Thanks for the video.
Looking at how to Carry a second battery That clips right in and that can be attached to the bike ready willing and able , rather than carry it in a backpack at some 50 pounds extra! One of my favorite 3hr ride is from Willow Glen San Jose to Alice’s Restaurant Woodside and back ......about 70 miles .......1600 ft altitude change up the mountain to Highway 35 Skyline...or the trip over the mts to Capitola Beach and back , up and down the Old San Jose Highway corkscrewing through the redwoods .... need the range!
They plan on having a range extending battery for the top void.
@@colormesarge yes!
Kennedy/Shannon road out of Los Gatos. Svendal, Uvas, #152, Pole Line / Eureka / Loma Preita, Summit Rd.
You don’t suck thanks for the info
Here are my predictions:
The 21700 cells will be a China branded cell.
The frame will definitely not be a 1pc. cast, forged, billet, whatever. There is no way they can afford the production cost of that process while keeping retail at $5k. The frame will most likely be cast in separate pieces and welded together. The manufacturer can easily grind down the welds to make the frame look seamless.
You will never hit the 80 mile range unless you cruise at 12-15mph.
Another great video.
I don't plan to buy this motorcycle, but I am really excited for what it might do to the industry.
I have a 2010 Brammo Enertia, and I'm building my own motorcycle out of an old yamaha and a 12kw continuous (24kw peak) motor also from QS motor.
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated. Wow that's an old school bike now, did you get it at Best Buy back in the day? Brammo had some cool race bikes in 2012, 2013 and I got to see them up close and personal in the TTXGP races. Can't wait to see your build, it sounds awesome. Which Yamaha frame are you using? You going to make some videos on it? If I can get a garage sometime soon, I'm going to do an older bike conversion.
@@trowantechworksI got the Brammo second hand with only 4000 miles on it. I wanted something to play around with while I finished building my other bike.
The bike I'm using is a yamaha xs750.
I'm going to upload a whole build log video when I get it done. I've taken lots of photos and video clips.
It's been an interesting adventure to be sure. But it should be worth it in the end.
I'm a deposit holder in the UK, do you think I'll get delivery this year and will it be a $5,000 (£4,000) bike? I've been a rider for 35 years but in the last four I've had a Nissan Leaf and really don't want a gas bike, so I'm hoping the Metacycle will come true!
You seem to have some math skills? If I throw a nova bomb at a crayon eating titan from 40 meters up, 35 meters away, and the nova bomb travels at 7.8 meters/s how dead is that crayon eating titan?
#GottaKnowTheAnswer #ItsMyDestiny
This Sonders design is so cool. Already have mine on order. Love the innovation from these guys. Good video, man. Well done.
Thanks for the feedback! Here's to hoping you get your bike this year.
Where did you order at ?
@@krabbykhris just made my reservation on the website it's 100$
Guestion for the factory friend. What kind of charging connections there will be? Is it possible to charge from normal house outlet, out side in rain? Will the charger handle different weathers?
question to ask "The Guy". will the signal lights (Turn Signals) be adjusted for the UK Market? will it be road legal for the UK MARKET? i have placed my order from Sondors europe. was told OCT 2021 so let's see.
Sounds like the range will be less than advertised. Will owners be able to charge them at the free electric car charging stations that seem to be popping up everywhere?
Is this Meta Cycle going to be legal in Canada?
Thanks great video, ordered one just to own it!
Better be I bought one
Ordered a sondors LX bicycle in April was supposed to get in August now it is delayed when do you think I will receive the bike
Do we need bike license for this bike or can I drive with my car license please consider me in California?
Your ebike behind you has a huge wheel gear. Isn't that extra unnecessary weight?
Any new updates. Come on !!!! I ordered the black one. Can’t wait !!!!
I’d love one of these, but I’m guessing they won’t materialize until end of 2022 at the earliest.
I ordered one of these and am pretty excited. I’m new to electric motorcycles. I’m curious if 8K nominal and 14.5K watts peak power is considered fast? I know they say it’ll go 80mph, but would there be decent acceleration?
They claim 0 to 60 in 6 seconds, but I have a hard time believing that..
Any chance that the accessory hole can house a batter as well as a CCS charger to use public EV chargers while out and about?
Excellent sleuthing. Ask that guy about the range extender you mentioned in an earlier video. That frame is waiting for it. The "let the chinese build it" effect is with us to stay. and it isn't new either. Ever heard about an island called Taiwan? The only trouble is that we loose the ability to do anything more then talk and talk and talk ourselves. Basically the "industrial heartlands" of North America and Europe now lie at the other side of the world.
"that's enuf Spekah-Late-In'" hahah. great video. yur awesome and extremely scientific. thinking about dropping a hundo for sondors reservation. thanks!
The Sondors website shows the frame will be cast aluminum.
Any mention as to whether the battery change will increase range? Also, did "the guy" offer any reason behind needing to pay in full instead of just a deposit until they actually have a DOT approved production motorcycle?
If you go on their website, it's a deposit.
@@colormesarge Thx, I see that they changed policy to refundable deposit for 2nd round of orders
I think if they were smart, they would advertise the range with the cells that they plan to use in the production bike. Not the prototype.
@@trowantechworks strongly agree ;-) maybe, pardon the pun, more battery news will trickle out in the next few weeks. just mentioning Tesla will get folks charged up.
@@garylinnert1574 pun strongly intended
I'd like to have your e-bake lol
Wonder if you will be able to add a fairing easily, or ride with 2 smalle adults.
Ask them about a app for the bike can easily help with thief problems
any chance of running it 2up? seat doesnt look like its in the cards. and curious what the weight capacity is.
Great video. Thanks for the info. I'm very curious now about the accessories that are going in that hole, like the extra battery and level 2 charger. Keep up the awesome content. ⚡🏍️💨
Thanks for the feedback! I'm working to get more details on the accessories. It sounds like Sondors might not even have the fine details about them yet.
@@trowantechworks I believe it. Considering they have only announced and not shown anything.
I would ask them who do they see as their biggest competitor, is it Zero for example, and do they have other motorcycle designs in the works? Thanks.
Yes - other designs, a more robust version, all of that...
Ice, but not for me, im getting too old, i will stick to ebikes, No registration no insurance👍👍👍👍😎
Will we need a motorcycle license for this
The only thing holding them up will be that frame everything else is parts bin stuff.
Ask them what slope of incline would be nominal for the 14.5kw motor. I guess 45 degree slope would be a showstopper. Let's ask them for a total weight of 375 pounds, how steep is nominal or maximum. Thanks for you great research. I was going to use it on mountain trails that are about 30 degree slopes.
ditto on the pre-order, will there be any access to 12vdc for accessories, any USB qc3 outlets for folks without wireless charging.also the instrument pod looks to indicate gearing, how is this? I hope the production is as good or better than prototype
Me too wrt the phone charger. Don't need it, can't use it... A normal USB port to charge a camera or flash light or whatever... That would be useful.
Tips for next video. Start talking about the subject earlier. Took you 1 minute and 44 seconds. That a Little to Long of a intro
Thanks Ludvig. I'll keep that in mind. I have the shortcuts at the bottom of the video so that people can skip around if they wish..
U should do videos about the madmod too
Where can I find one of those EMT200 controller's? I've been looking all over for one!
At first I really wanted one of these but I do have a handicap...or affliction, I just hate hub motors. I am thinking a Sur Ron with a new controller and 72v battery would come up to about the same price, be faster and not have a hub motor...hmm
Hey, you finally responded to my inquiries... with a video. X) Having said that, still a bit skeptical. Still have my $100 down.
One thing that wasn't touched on - cue another heavy dose of skepticism.... who's fixing this when it breaks down?
You :-) !?! How much do you charge, do you take appointments? I do wonder about this myself. How much of the bike is just a basic motorcycle that any good mechanic could fix, and how much of it is cutting edge/new/private tech that would need to go back to HQ?
It looks and sounds like it’s all off the shelf parts. The motor and controller are. The brakes are. I think whatever breaks , you just remove and replace either under warranty or or on your own if the warranty is over.
There is not going to be any carb rebuilds, valve adjusting, exhaust swapping, chain adjusting, or anything related to current or past bikes.
I’m so ready for that since I will be learning carb rebuilding this spring, or paying someone to do it.
@@kenmcclow8963 carb rebuilding? I build motorcycles and mopeds. Carbs are pretty easy. What are you learning it in regards to? Enjoy!
As for the other points, I haven’t heard anything about a warranty. So who handles that when they sell 1,000 units? Or 10,000? Or 100,000?
Regardless I’ve already put the $100 down, I’m just very skeptical.
I think we're all skeptical, to varying degrees. And if you're not skeptical, I'd be worried. I think most shops can handle repairing just about anything that breaks, as most of it will just be replacement. I will dig into this and find out.
@@christianoland9878 warranty is also a good question. I will ask
Does anyone know if it will have an app?
I'd like to know this as well. It'd be nice to chart performance over time to see what's going on with the bike.
@@joemen9042fault errors as well, I want to see error logs so I can know what is a controller, BMS, or motor issue so I know what is a defect, a fix, or if a replacement is needed
So far I've heard nothing. The motor controller will be programmed from the factory, but I have no details on whether there will be some sort of vehicle control unit running independent of the motor controller. There will need to be in order to have a mobile app. I could probably come up with a universal system that just plugs into the bike. Im building one for myself now.
@@trowantechworks nice. I've only used an app called Mayi-BMS on Android which connects via bluetooth and I'm able change controller settings. I doubt they'll go that far but at least something like the sur ron app to fine tune speed modes.
@trowan good video, SUBBED, your knowledge and sense of humor seem good.
Questions(5) I have: I weigh an ⅛th of a ton(250lbs), did they confirm max for weight of rider and cargo,, Do they have any plans for a rider + passenger version,, Do you have final sales price confirmation,,Are there any energy credit/eco tax of government money discounts for buying this e-vehicle,, I'm an engineer and design CAD/3D so I have some good invention ideas for the hole area, how can one get CAD/3D data to start designing accessories and how does one get access/in the pipeline to make approved accessories.
You Rock, Thank You, sincerely
George/Ohio
PEACE & HEALTH🌍🌎🌏
Since it is a commuter emc, ask for a copy of the new EPA/DOT MPGe sticker for an electric vehicle (EV): kilowatt-hours per 100 miles (kWh/100m); mpg-equivalent (MPGe); annual electricity cost; and cruising range. And the same battery demonstration & details for the proposed accessory battery (to fit in the upper void) including its price, weight, charge time, warranty, availability date, etc. Also, the dimension for the phone recharging compartment?
Can you give your thoughts on the CyberX ebike coming out soon. I enjoyed watching your breakdown
What's the 0 to 60? Please!
Yeah, but can it wheelie?
Can we hope for a seat height lower than 800mm on the Metacycle? Triumphs ever popular Bonneville's have seats around 785mm
One Feedback, two feedbacks, three feedbacks, only some you said
Hey I'm wondering if you could leave some more feedback. Feedback is great, and I'm really lucky that you decided to leave feedback. If you could find it in your heart to leave some more feedback I'd really appreciate it. No but thank you for real, I really appreciate it.
Haven't watched this yet (on break at work), but looking forward to hearing if you have any metacycle updates beyond what I've been scouring the internet for each day. Thank you for the videos, I'm enjoying your format so far (& of course the topic) =]
Did you get around to watching it? What did you think? Hopefully it gave you some info that you won't find anywhere else.
@@trowantechworks I did! Enjoying your energy & the presentation of information... I think you said a thing or two from your interaction with "the guy" that was insightful and fingers crossed you'll get to see a metacycle in person soon... Either way I'm good with hearing the same things I've read repeated back to me on these update videos... Highly digestible content =]
When do we get to see the negative space accessories like storage, extra battery etc etc?
2:33 why was this my exact same reaction 😂😂
That beat slaps
The Guy might be Storms Tech Moufpiece,,Mr.Matt? Irish,using a Voice changer.jk.I ordered the Rockstar n Metacycle..I live in DTLA,where they filmed the Metacycle promo..Chiong. Robin Hoodloom on IG
Nah it isn't Matt it's anotha guy. Haha. Just followed you on ig
Reminds me of Bliss Foster
Would it be possible to have a passenger? Orrr too small of motor?
Hey Jake, the bike is pretty small so putting a second person on there might be a bit difficult. In terms of performance impact, I will run some numbers to find out. Gonna do another video with some updated simulation
Great info!
I would never get one myself I'm a DIY guy but I love what sonders is doing for the market Great video man
A man after my own heart. DIY til I DIE
@@trowantechworks This guy
some feedback
Unless and until each state starts to address what kind of vehicle this will be classified as street use is sketchy at best. If they can comply with the minimums say Chinese ICE scooters meet they could be licensed in every state .
in the follow up interview Electrek did shortly after the product launch, DOT reqs and (details like turn signals were discussed.) idk how states and DOT legal stuff is squared with each other. i'm optimistic that someone must be doing due diligence so it can be sold as a product, and not as a kit or owner/builder custom creation.
Gary is right. It is supposed to be DOT legal
Feedback
Nice background plant.
Thanks. I've managed to keep it alive somehow.
Almost 2 months have passed since this report. Any more news? I', still assuming we'll be seeing Metacycles on the roads in the fall...
I would pay 5k as advertised if that was the price delivered in the UK and registered for road use.
I suspect this wont be the case so I'll stick to DIY ebikes which are actually more fun.
will it be distributed in the UK?
Can you ask the guy if there will be an additional battery that can be added to the hole above the battery in the middle of the frame to extend the range of the bike?
There will be. It was confirmed that 3 add ons will be available, a battery, a storage bag, or a level 2 charger.
@@trowantechworks that's great hope it ads a good amount of range. Would like to see if they can put an eco mode for people who aren't going on the freeway all the time. Eco and sport mode option would be great.
Need solid intel on 0-60 times. That's the only thing holding me back. Needs to be south of 5 seconds or I'm not interested.
I could give you theoretical times all day..but we really need to just ride it to find out. I'm sure it's decent in the lower end, but I'd be more worried about torque in the top end
Just email them..I’ve emailed them 3 times & they’ve answered every question except for U.K shipping costs..0-60 is 6 seconds but this is likely to improve due to sports mode still being tested/improved 👍
I'm wondering why the small battery? With 2700 cells you would think that Sondors would go with a 96 or 100 volt system. Which brings me to another question, what classification will the metacycle fall within? I'm an electric scooter rider and this bike has peaked my curiosity a few times but I cringe at the thought of taxes, tags, insurance regulations, and possibly having to obtain a motorcycles license.
I think the frame itself was a one of the main deciding factors for the battery format. They could have optimized the frame space for an 8kWh battery, but that goes against their "low cost" ideology, so a smaller battery pack was probably always the plan. The Metacycle is a motorcycle, so you will need all of the things that you just mentioned that you cringe at.
Just throw some bicycle pedals on it. Class 2 ebike. No problem
Its a motorcycle and you will need insurance and a license plate. Dont worry about motorcycle school - I watched 2 girls drive in a straight line through a cone weave obstacle without weaving at all and they somehow passed lol. I'm not sure if it's state or federal, but there is a 10% EV tax credit on these that will help offset some of the extra costs. Way better than an ebike
Love the video. Outsourcing is a benefit and a curse.
You said Twater hahahah
whats that bike in behind you? Looks cool
Its a stealth bomber knock off. Google electric enduro bike and you can find the style of bike
I think the most important question is, Is it DOT legal and registerable as a motorcycle? Secondly, what is shipping going to add to the price?
i think shipping/freight was estimated $348 in my pre-order contract. located CA, but not close enough to ride it home.
What's that bike in the back ground ?
It's an electric enduro bike or stealth bomber knock off. I've got a couple of videos that show it in more detail
What kind of bike do you have behind you?
Its an electric enduro bike. I go over the bike in a couple of my other videos!
My question for "the guy": Will the production version have a rear splash guard?
My question for you, how many rocks of blue sky have you banged through today?
I ordered the metacycle in December. The website said 100 deposit but they billed my card $5000. I cancelled my order and I have been trying to get my money back ever since. Today they sent me an email asking if I would like to reinstate my order. I guess they think I might rather have the bike than nothing. They are wrong. I know how they treat customers if something fails guaranteed you are left in the cold. These people do not care about their customers at all. I'll sue to get my money back. Better than trying to sue if I get a lemon. Just telling you about my experience with this company, take it for what it's worth.
Nothing in the battery case! Empty! Sondor is all style and looks but they do not work or perform as advertised! I going to wait for Tesla and Honda to come out with an electric bike and motorcycle. They usually underestimate the performance all time in their vehicles, Honda last?
Update: Metacycle seat height went from 31.5 to 34.0 with new thick foam seat.
Just wanted to leave a comment about how manufacturing works in China by US-based companies. We turn the other cheek when outsourcing, because it’s a calculated risk that they could copy our products and re-sell it cheaper. But the reason we do that is because the products we make will be sold mostly in the US and not worldwide. Whereas in China they can copy and resell in China. No skin of our backs. But a lot has changed since Alibaba and e-commerce being as prevalent as it is. Still, it’s a small impact on the bottom line.
2 questions I need answered before I buy any product Where can you take a SONDORS E Bike to be repaired or tuned up that’s my biggest concern about buying on I really like the MXS and now after your video I have another in mind . When you buy say a Giant bike it’s sent to a bike shop that puts it together for you and you can bring it to any bike shop that is a distributor for service. thanks in advance for your time
My issue with Sondors their after purchase support. For their eBikes its almost non-existent. If that is the case for the Metacycle, then it is a hard pass from me.
The reason they can keep their prices so low is by not having extensive support or warranties. For me, that is a plus. YOLO. As long as your gamble pays off (not getting a lemon) and you treat it well it should be good! :P
@@rpg9392 I'm always amused at the position that the lack of service is some sort of benefit and using price as the excuse is a winning argument. As someone who is keeping an eye on their car, this matters to me immensely. BTW, I own a Sondors Thin and love it.
Can you ask The Guy if they plan on coming out with a more powerful battery that will increase the range of the Metacycle beyond 60-80 miles?
Loving the channel man you're way undersubbed. The discussion about Sondors changing up the bars got me wondering if there's any way to determine what kind of brake and throttle controls they'll be using (maybe more stuff from QSmotor?) and their compatibility with existing aftermarket clip ons. I got to thinking about it after the range video they posted had some kind of bar brace blocking the view of the display the entire time.
I understand why they wouldn't fit clip ons from the factory as the aggressive riding position isn't going to be right for everyone, but on a naked bike like the Metacycle there should be appreciable range and speed benefits to a more aerodynamic riding position.
Thanks for the feedback, glad you're enjoying the content! I don't have any details as to what they're using for throttle and brake. I'd guess with this price point, that most parts will be of mid to lower quality Chinese scooter parts. But I could be wrong. I will work to get more details. You're right, a more "prone" position would be more aerodynamic friendly, however most people will likely opt to ride sitting up for city commuting.
@@trowantechworks im also thinking adjustable rear sets. never really seen the pegs in most of the metacycle vids. gotta wonder what the mount looks like, and what thirdparty or oem flavor are suitable for cross-pollination usage. hopefully, for an item as ubictouous as a foot-peg, replacements are easy to get, if on the off chance, the bike goes down.... (due to no fault of yours of course)
the Sondors spec said Bybre brakes. i bet the same assembly units that are compatible with the WP suspension. the throttle twist grip must be working ok with the controller on the press bike, so, maybe it comes from Votol as a pair. imho, the "cockpit" looked real nice in the announcement vids and web pics.
Waiting for your follow up now that two or three have been delivered. I know ppl are pissed that the battery is not removable. 0-45 on one video I saw saw 9-10 seconds watching the YT clock.
Does it carry two people??
It can carry up to 400 lbs of weight. So yes, you could put a second person on there
Great update! I am very curious about the accessories still. Is there more info on options to stick in the empty space? I also think it would be cool to mix n match a white bike with a black battery or something...
Thanks Bret. I don't have any details yet on thr accessories, I'm working on it. Sondors is probably still working on it too.. I like the idea of mix n match color schemes. Almost like they should let you build the bike you want. I'm sure it somehow costs more money to do that
I’ve emailed them a few times & they’ve been happy to answer all of my questions..they’re a hell of a lot more informative than this fella or anybody else on RUclips
Nice frame, now make it less bling and Tina cheaper
After watching this I am even less confident in the stated ranges. :(
Their website says to deposit $100 to reserve for the q1 2022. Is this company legit?
Let's just hope Sondors doesn't do a fade out like Onyx seems to have.....
That was pretty weird. I think they are back though
Great video, I'm quite interested in this model, so I'll have an eye on your next videos. This, though, is probably a more general question. What's usually the autonomy difference like when regarding slopes? I live by 30 Km from work (~22 miles?), but a 'mountain' of 155m heigh is in between. Not sure a 60-80 miles range would guarantee getting home without having to ask for a toll. Any thoughts?
The battery contacts could be part of the key-latch design.
They are asking people who have already put money down to pay in full withing 14 days or be removed from the preorder list (that they have already put money down for). This is crazy to demand full payment for something that hasn't even hit dealers, especially
when there was an existing agreement in place from when the initial deposit was made. They try to play it off like they are upgrading your order but then note that if you don't pay you'll be removed, also stated is that they will still not be accountable for delivering on time if you pay in full.
You should do a video on it, I am happy to send you the email. This is not how you support your customer base who were willing to throw money down early on.
Hmmm...this doesn't sound right. You mind forwarding the email to me? alwaysfwd1234@gmail.com. Sounds like Sondors is hard up for some cash up front. I'll include it in the next video, thanks for sharing.
@@trowantechworks Sent, also with a PDF of the original message in case they edit it. Sounds like they just wanna help you get it faster but then take a look at the fine print under the motorcycle image.
I paid in full in the first batch and got an email saying they are adding more people to the Q3 delivery list but I will be first priority and will receive an additional thank you gift in the mail prior to delivery. I assume they are only bumping Q4 orders to Q3 if they paid in full because they can only bump a limited number of people? You can probably keep your monthly payments but you'll get it Q4 as originally intended? You'd think they'd just bump Q4 people to Q3 in the order they reserved, but there must be some financial logic to it. Perhaps they're trying to get as much fast cash possible to make the order as large as possible and further decrease prices. It seems silly to complain about being offered faster delivery if you pay in full - you don't have to do it and it wouldnt change your original Q4 order....
@@rpg9392In their email it is either pay in full to move from q4 to q3 or they cancel your order completely and refund the 100.
I have not received the email about "Advance delivery" option (from Q4 to Q3). Is this option reserved 4 US customer? (I'm from Italy)
I just ordered one. I figure February 2022.
Congrats! Here's to hoping it shows up sooner rather than later.