What E-bike Manufacturers Don't Want You To Know. Watch before buying an electric bike!
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- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
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This video is not to point out that we buy things from China re-labeled at a higher price. Of course. This video is for people like me who want the best value long term on things they buy and are interested in. Until e-bikes come down in price AND get better quality and performance, the best way to go is to convert a good bike into a great ebike.
Hub vs Mid drive
• Hub vs. Mid Drive Moto...
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This happens with millions of products, not just e bikes
So true. Don't know why he thinks it's news.
Because there are alternatives
@@JohnnyNerdOut Ya, these dummies don't know that ur just looking out for 'em.
Especially phones.
@@JohnnyNerdOut Can you you recommend to me a reputable/trustworthy seller an Alibaba where I can purchase the components to build a fat tire, full suspension ebike, preferably at a good price? I'm looking to build one with an Ultra M620 for a friend. I'm looking specifically for one with the frame that's either hollowed out for a battery, or has an inset angle for the battery. If you can help me I'd really appreciate it. It's kind of nerve racking trying to find a trustworthy source.
Thanks
When they say "We 'oversee' the manufacturing process", the spelling that immediately came to mind was more like, "We OVERSEA our manufacturing process."
😂that’s gold. Wish I would’ve said that now
That’s actually exactly what I thought he was saying. Lol
Blomberg did a study to make an iPhone in USA. The cost is 6k USD. Would you buy an iPhone for 6k? If 1million us customers saying yes then apple might survive.
Overseas means beyond or across the ocean or sea: “My dad has gone overseas for business purposes.” Oversees , on the other hand, means to supervise or to inspect: “The police oversees all the public places in the city in order to prevent crimes.” Therefore use the proper word "oversee".
@@karaokelvis something tells me you didn’t get the joke
You’ve literally explained commerce. This happens with everything from flower pots to restaurant food, not just e-bikes.
Not quite all commerce; but most goods, I agree.
This is not the case with fuel powered vehicles.
@@andherium that’s because the auto dealership distribution system in America is basically a monopoly. The rules are outdated.
If you knew how the system worked, you would know the answers to the following 2 questions: why are auto dealers the richest guys in town? And why do auto dealer owners have so many children?
Exactly right, everything I buy, EVERYTHING, I check the Chinese suppliers first to see if it's just a rebranded product and 9 times in 10 it is.
Living in the UK, we have a lot of companies promoting themselves as "British" when in fact they're just sale offices, buying cheap crap from China and having a sticker put on in the UK so that they can promoted it as "made in England".
If there is ONE thing I hate more than crap Chinese products, it's office admin/sales people buying the same Chinese products and selling them for a 500% mark up, because i'm an engineer and people in my line of work lose their jobs because of these lying scumbags in their cosy air-conditioned offices.
Welcome to capitalism.
Most bike brands have been middle men since the early 90s. A Raleigh rep told me in 92 that they were getting bike frames from China for $7 a piece. $7 ! At that time a Trek 930 frame out of Wisconsin cost wholesale $130. Specialized was never a manufacturer. And if you worked in different shops you would find Taiwanese manufacturers who would build you anything you wanted and put your own name on it. Brands, unfortunately, have not meant anything for some time. The public now takes the place of quality control and you just hope for the best.
yeah 90% of bike brands buy their frames from the bike manufacture GAINT who are the world largest bike manufacturer and sell frames to EVERY major brand Trek, Specialized, Cannondale ect ect. its called "White Label production"
Yep, the world is full of shit and people like it that way.
This is not actually true. I have 20 years experience in the bicycle industry so I’ll explain in detail.
Some of the factories that are owned by parent company’s that also own have the major brands under the same umbrella and some parts of frame manufacturing and scheduling is outsourced to factories owned by different companies. But the frames the design, patents and quality control are all different. Even the tooling required is different to produce these frames. These produce different bikes.
Think of it like an artisan baker asks another baker to hire his oven one day a week because he can’t afford the specific type of oven he needs for this special type of bread he needs. However the baker brings his own bread pans, baskets, tools, recipe and does the work himself. This is how the Taichung, Taiwanese side of the industry works. It’s a complicated system with many brands working together and against each other at the same time.
Department store bikes is a whole other thing (and absolute junk) and this is what he is talking about with hub motor e-bikes and Alibaba.
@@Joe-yr9oy thank you Joseph that was very informative and helpful very eye-opening too on my dad
@@Joe-yr9oy Its not a cool way of doing business if you ask me. A name should mean EVERYTHING with products but thanks to this kind of crap it means nothing. Its because of this that your example means nothing. How do I really know what % of my product was made by the manufacture? I'm not even going to try to research crap like that, only the people in the industry know things like that.
I bought a £200 front wheel motor and controller from China years ago (200W Bafang 8FUN), added 4 mobility scooter lead acid batteries and a £50 second hand bike. It's still going strong 7 years later (OK it's had new batteries but they cost peanuts compared to light weight batteries). Easy 25 mile range and once its moving, just like a motorbike, the weight makes it feel more solid and stable to ride. It was a time when some modern batteries were catching fire and I figured for battery pack charging under my desk at work the old proven lead acid battery was safer. DIY - save a fortune - Mine is still 100% reliable. One word of warning - at e-bike speeds you need bloody good lights.
With the right tools, parts, and cells, you can build your own li-Ion battery packs better than $$$ ones off the shelf.
I literally discovered this three days ago. Been seeing similar bike ads popping up while I was looking for one. However there is no way I will ever pay 4K for a bike. That's the price for a used car or fancy moped. So I checked out AliBaba found a certified dealer. Got myself a fully customized bike made to my specs for 1.2k door to door. Sent from an EU warehouse so I skipped all the import hassle. These so called brands in Germany here want an arm and a leg for a bike and I won't let them. :D
I've purchased two really nice motorbikes for $2000 so when I walk by the bike shop and see $3500 ebikes in the window I just shake my head.
When shopping on Alibaba how do you know they are truly certified? I felt that the deals were too good to be true… so it’s a scam?
@@Minjoeman the way I checked was by seeing if they had a certification from Alibaba themselves. Also be sure to ask the door to door price. This varies of course from the price they post to lure you in. Usually the posted price is around 500 to 700 bucks. but if you ask for the door to door price there are no hidden fees or surprises
What you say in this video applies to e-scooters as well. That’s why you see e-scooters that look exactly alike but have different brand names on them. Customer service/support is always promised before you make that purchase. But as soon as you discover a factory defect or something breaks, you’ll be given a hard time from the seller.
Weird tbh many of the things sold in holland are dutch or german made so we don't have those problems
@@KaasIsLekker Europeans have the Learning Curve advantage. Americans are behind on these things. And too greedy. If I went to Europe, I'd buy a few.
I love the retro style. And the Italian styles.
@@juliedeane4327 Americans are too greedy. If there was a word that could exaggerate more than too it would apply here. Clueless and greedy we are over here in North America. So sad yet so true
I’m surprised that some of you were not aware of it… I live in China and everything you guys think is made by some reputable brands is made just around the corner here in China. And no… nobody is over looking any manufacturers here. It’s not like American guy walks into massive manufacturing plant and demands something. These factories here produce millions of bikes and China is by far the biggest market.
For American clients we just slap some cool looking logo on it and make it look “strong” because of those masculinity issues there. Anyways…
You guys don’t make ebikes and even if you put those parts together, you’re using Chinese parts. Batteries, controllers, frames, motors etc… So, does combining Chinese products by American company or person make it more of a American or Chinese made bike? I leave it for you to judge.
Btw, Bosch has some great motor designs and things… but please don’t assume those motors to be manufactured in Germany. China is the place where the stuff is made these days🤫
I think about that A LOT, thanks for your perspective 👍
All this needs to change.
@@mrbubblebuns3994 if you say so,sonny.
Most people don't know the difference (usually) between high quality and low quality is who controls the BOM for whatever is being built. Let a local ODM choose what capacitors/etc. get used and they'll pick stuff that's cheaper almost every time. Let's say you have a PC that's spec calls for ~80C internal temperatures, so the original design BOM calls for ceramic capacitors. Well, those are 30 cents each but an electrolytic capacitor is 5 cents each. Guess which one you get if you do not explicitly require ceramic caps in your BOM? And then, when you run your test batch of units in a thermal chamber overnight, the next morning 10-20% of them are dead. Why? Because the cheaper caps have a spec that "technically" meets 80C but only for short periods and you now have a bunch of burned out capacitors and useless PCs. ¯\_ (ツ)_/¯ Note that this isn't specific to China but when they say "We can make that BOM for 20% cheaper" the management says "Awesome, do that!" And then when engineering says "If you do that, our failure rate will jump by 3-5x, dropping our already thin profit margins," management fires the engineers who told them that and goes with the ODM BOM anyway. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why Amazon reviews are WUNDERBAR for the first year of a product and then drop to 1-3 stars after the BOM rules get relaxed.
You can't live without China because you are just plain lazy. Would you be willing to work long hours for low pay. You want cheap but super good quality. In your American wet dreams.
Almost bought a cool, but pricey "local" e-bike when the "manufacturer" turned out to be a guy
who ordered 50 from China and then closed the company. #Dodged_a_Bullet
Dodged a Bullet is a fitting name for a fast bike
I think you will be okay we all know were getting screwed with most things we buy.
i think he meant the sellers were gonna hit him. . I hate that crap like for instance at SunSetter awning motorized awning that they send a big packet to my mailbox they used to anyway LOL I noticed it said in it that it was assembled in the USA did not State anywhere that was manufactured in USA so I started calling them whenever they send me one of those big mailers and I asked then where it was manufactured and they say right here in New England America as yet no man we said that it's symbol in America where were the parts made in America and I say that's why I'll never buy one man
Sometimes you will see a label that specifies where materials were shipped from & where it was assembled.
Electric bikes & scooters & mopeds are really popular now.
When looking for a Co. to buy from, do your research. I almost bought a scooter from a co. in CA. Beware. Reviews were horrid & lots of them. I referred to the BBB. Well over 100 complaints were sent to them concerning this Co. And these vehicles are not inexpensive in price. I also heard that some put up pictures of products and all you get is a cheap knock off. Not the real thing. Buyer beware. Reverse engineering, cheap knock offs, etc. Patents don't mean a lot if someone in another country steals your idea.
Good for people to know. Of course, this is the case with virtually *every* consumer good, including, of course, non-electric bikes. The one caveat I'd add here is that, for people who don't like to tinker, a relationship with a reputable bike shop is what you're paying (that much extra) for. Like when you buy a car from a dealership. If you don't need that relationship, great! Save some $$$. But most normal customers do.
Found that the guys at the shop I went to were pretty awesome to talk to and did good work, and the Giant brand Lafree bike (from 2019) they recommended me has honestly been heaps of fun the last couple years I've been riding it, I may like tinkering with things (built my desktop and added more ram and an extra m.2 to my laptop) but it's still awesome to have some bike nerds to talk to and work on my bike to keep it in good shape.
My only other option in my price range would have been on Amazon anyway so it's worked out pretty well
> virtually every consumer good
Yes, name names.
@@billparker8954 Its quite impossible to name names, as you'd be naming basically every product on the face of the planet. If someone outsources manufacturing, that manufacturer in question would be the one to blame for selling off extra product, or even the design of the product itself, to third party companies that are only looking for a turn-key product to make money in what they view as a growing industry.
Everything from bicycles, to condoms, to basically any piece of plastic you own in your house. If it was not made in the same country of origin as the end seller, then there is, without a doubt, a copy of it floating around waiting to be picked up and sold by a smaller off-shore company.
This happened to me. Paid 3K for an electric bike 8 years ago before the craze. Anyway, fast forward to now, I had problems with my controller and the place where I purchased my bike can’t fix it. I contacted the manufacturer and heard nothing back. I ended up buying two Döst bicycles. I really like their customer service.
You just saved me $3000 the ebike I wanted comes from China. A friend of mine did an estimate on what I can build it would cost me $1500 thank you for this video
The other $1500 you will spend later soon, when you will need your first repair.
@@renatomercurio4774 Don't comment if you don't know.
@@guyton100 I guess this is an advice, you should have given to yourself first.
@@renatomercurio4774 I still have $1000 I spent $500 to get an older style the original bike sold for the extra $375 which I needed for upgrades and modifications. Still no problems with it
@@truedondivabrokesurvival6930 so you retrofitted a bike, and you've been using it for a couple of months with no issues?
As a retired global outsourcing executive, you know what most don't, most everything is a re-labled product made offshore. It is a fact of life these days, and I retired in 2008.
How come they don’t just build the Ebikes here in the U.S and sell it here in the U.S so we don’t have to wait 10 years to get a Tire
@@mando2.049 labor cost. u can build a 1000$ bike in china but build that same bike in us would cost $3000.
@@Boemel makes sense then the companies that build bikes here would resell a labored $3000 bike for $10000
I figured this out pretty quickly when I got serious about buying a new bike. As he said this is why there are so many complaints about after sale customer service for these bikes. Personally I'm not sure that you can protect yourself from these issues even buying from a local dealer as they just add another layer to the whole thing.
Help me out, my man. I'm looking for a mini ebike and as I'm starting to educate myself on the topic
I'm realizing it's a jungle I gotta trek through. What's a good one?
@@jixxytrix1705 You find an answer?
@@MR-nl8xr No, so I changed my mind.
Couldn't even get an answer from Hoggdoc here. I hate it when people do that.
Maybe he's too fancy...
@@jixxytrix1705 good luck dude.
@@jixxytrix1705 I think dudes point was that none are good
I suppose one consolation is if you've bought a 'budget' e-bike, you can then switch it over as time moves forward, as you have the frame, and bars, wheels, motor, batteries and displays can always be changed out to newer parts/pieces. Some motors are not made for the long haul, so I assume if the motor doesn't fit a case within the wheel, the whole wheel assembly can be switched, no matter the size and width? Thanks for your input!
that's why he recommends mid drive mounted motors, not hub driven
Bought a £350 FIIDO D1 off aliexpress fourteen months ago , best thing I ever bought , done hundreds of miles on it , sure it’s not perfect but I needed a folder and I’m on a budget and I’m more than happy with it , it’s been places where fourteen inch wheels have no right to go including over the Pennine hills with a trailer .
You are so right Johnny! I just found out the hard way by buying 2 Jasion e-bikes. Total crap! One motor failed. They don’t answer the phone, they don’t respond to emails, they have no spare parts, etc. My 5 week old Jasion X-Hunter is now a 1000 $ paperweight. I just posted a video on RUclips to warn people. Also, Al the people who get these bike for free and tell everyone how fabulous they are, are guilty as well. They only test the bike when it’s brand new. The don’t tell you there is zero service. Keep up your work. I am sure you will be fine. We need to tell the people the truth!
ruclips.net/video/i6j8JlGOnvs/видео.htmlsi=l_ERlfJUS57B8ksk
After doing some research, I bought a LECTRIC brand e-bike. The research I did on several different e-bikes led me to believe that the electronic controls are pretty much the product of a single manufacturer that are shared by most brands, but the physical and mechanical aspects of the various bikes can vary qute a bit. At any rate, buying the LECTRIC was a “no brainer” - best price, best features, best build quality, and best support. Of course it made me question why I would spend $879 for a 60-lb mountain bike that has to be electrically powered (because it is so heavy), as opposed to spending $479 for a 30-lb montain bike that is pedal-only. The answer is simply that an e-bike gives you a whole new cycling experience that involves a collaborative effort between the rider and the machine.
Same! Maybe they don’t manufacture them they might have found the specs they wanted - internal battery. And why is a hub motor trash? Hmmm. Sounds like the mainstream bike industry is freaking out over the popularity of the Lectric and other similar “brands”. Make a more affordable entry level bike and you will have more sales. Don’t make it be the fault of someone else’s marketing savvy the reason your business is not booming.
Hey Bill, is Lectric built in the USA ? My wife are looking as 1st time buyers of a solid built e bike & quality manufacturer & support. We are new to biking & want to buy smart & still just trying to educate ourselves on what’s out there , seems overwhelming. Thx Bob
@@bobmariano3731 they're based out of Arizona. I'm looking into buying one right now.
Thx 👍⚾️
I'm going to rent an e-bike just to try them out.
This is exactly why I have designed and am building my own bike. I can buy an electric bike for what it will cost me to build but I can't get anywhere near the performance and spare parts for it are available at any hobby shop.
what parts are you refering to for your ebike that are available at any hobby shop?
Got a hub motor for 8 years and still going strong! What mid drive do you have like that? Hub motors rock!
$42,000 was the cost of a replacement battery for a friends Brahma electric motorcycle.
my friend bought the bike slightly damaged at a salvage auction. My friend owns a collision shop and he is a motorcycle enthusiast. He thought it would be neat to have an electric bike. It was totaled because the frame had scuffs on it. Anytime a motorcycle has scuffs on the frame, it’s automatically totaled. The rest of the damage was the handlebars the front fender scuffing on the seat footpeg, nothing serious. He bought the bike for under $1000, replaced the parts that were broken, buffed the frame, and he rode the bike for three years.
he found a blog online. One of the bloggers told him to leave his key on over the weekend and it would totally discharge the battery. When he recharges the battery from totally discharged, it will recharge with a greater charge and have more range. So he did that..
it turned out to be the worst advice anyone could give. That works with lead acid deep cycle batteries, but not lithium ion batteries
My friend called the factory. They walked him through some tests over the phone. They concluded that his battery is junk and it was actually in danger of exploding all by itself in that state. They told him to get that motorcycle out of his business which is where he kept it..
so to get to the bottom line. My friend asked about a new battery, how do I go about getting a new battery
they told him that his battery or battery pack consists of seven batteries. Each battery cost $6000. The battery pack cost $42,000.
my friend searched the Internet for over a year occasionally looking for another crashed but salvageable Brahma electric motorcycle that he could salvage the battery from. No one ever came up on the websites where he looks for parts for crashed cars he repairs. He ended up selling the bike for parts on eBay..
Rubbish. The BMS will stop a Lithium battery from discharging so far that it is damaged.
Got my parts from AliExpress and learned through watching lots of videos on building a repair. Cheapest way is to convert an alternator. Built my own battery too! I like hub motors best! Girl power!
Good stuff! We need more girls on ebikes! its a friggin sausage fest over here
Elizabeth Wood Way to go Girl! I’m just starting to look at e bikes and making my own would be satisfying. I drive an SUV so an e bike would be a great complement. I’ll investigate it more as soon as chemo’s over and I’ve got some time lol.😎👍
Too bad you don't have boy power; it will always be better.
@@Lot_2023 good god
Wow excellent!
Of course there will be other products that do the same thing. But this guy is giving you what he knows from personal experience about bikes which 99.9% of those buying them won’t know as they shell out a fortune for the same bike they could have bought much cheaper from those who actually make them. Great post, Johnny
Yes. Like a couple of outboard motors for boats decades ago. They were made on the same production line and went their separate ways when it was time to label them. I'm making trike from my push bike using wooden main, cross rails and rest for the seat. I may not have the fastest but the western red cedar will certainly look stylish.
Any way we can have a list of 'not middlemen' companies? I'm in the market for a few e-bikes and this is GOLDEN info. Thank you!!!
Re-branding is a very common practice in most industries.
@@polymful Yep, for sure, even noticed how a ford explore and a mercury mountaineer look very similar, it's done in the auto industry a lot. Anyone that is surprised by this video hasn't done their research. This is nothing new or really secret, you just have to do your research.
@@stevelaminack1516 lol Ford and Mercury were/are literally the same company (although Mercury as a brand doesn't exist any more). This guy was talking about one company selling to another and then selling again to us.
@@stevelaminack1516 Yeah, like the other guy said Ford and Mercury were the same company. Bad analogy...Just like GM owns Chevy. This video meant literally some other manufacturer making the bikes then slapping another companies sticker on it.
I believe the Lectric bikes are made in the USA.
Dude this video keeps paying forward. You helped me know what I needed to know about who I am deling with. I just bought a bike from Aventon, I got the Ramblas Mid mount. They helped create that system. Thanks man!
Hub motors are fine for many uses. Built many hub drive and mid drive ebikes.
exactly . i bought a use ebike with a brushless gearless hub motor and it works great for driving grid and dirt roads. a bit gutless though with only 48 volts 350 watt controller box . that could all be dealt with just by simple rewinding the drive motor and upgrading the control box for more watt power. only problem is then the batteries will drain way quicker. adding to much battery will make the thing a weight beast. ebikes scooters are more for a slow and steady will get you there eventually lol mode of transportation :)) i like it though.
Hub motors are excellent for most uses.
@@carmichaelmoritz8662 I wouldn't use anything lower than 60v 500 watts.
@@samguapo4573 👍
Yes, you got a point. However, you forgot to mention the risks of ordering directly from the manufacturer through alibaba. You forgot to mention the insanely long shipping times, the hardship of getting the warranty claim from the manufacturer, and the inconsistency of the photos from the you actually ordered and most importantly the customs could reject the product if it did not meet regulations. I searched on reddit, there are people who ordered through alibaba and waited for several months ended up not getting the product because customs rejected it.
Yes, true indeed. This video could’ve been 3x as long going into the details. The main point is that a middle man is buying from China, then selling to a dealer who then sells to you. Lots of markups for little reason
@@JohnnyNerdOut That's pretty much how most products are sold - it's rare you are buying from the manufacturers... they don't want to be direct sellers. They sell wholesale to distributors to sell to retailers who sell to us!
ALWAYS USE PAYPAL for peace of mind
@@JohnnyNerdOut Hi Johnny excellent video. I’m looking to get the equivalent of a “GForce T42. Any possibility of pointing me in the right direction as it relates to a manufacturer? Would be tremendously appreciated.
the catch being ,one that many do not realize... is that Aliexpress and Alibaba .. you're dealing with the shipper who is IN China; whereas dealing with another maker or like Amazon,, the shipper/order fulfiller is outside of China and has faster shipping contracts in situ.
This is so true. I saw a folding 20" fat tire e-bike on the street with no brand. Went online and worked out it must be RDK. But RDK don''t ship to Australia. Then worked out RDK just orders these to various specs from China and badges them. There are many, many differerent brands selling this bike all around the world. The gears spces, battery specs are the same, only the max speed and if it has a hand throttle or not is what is different. Motor brand - OEM!
Hub motors are awesome, what are you talking about? I'm hitting 65mph with my kits all day long. And as a bonus, I've never been stranded due to a broken chain. QS makes some awesome hub motors.
Exactly, he was on the money until he started with that rubbish, hub motors outperform mid-drives any day of the week.
That's how...all manufacturing works, unless you're in a very small-time niche market...where you might still have an arms-length relationship with the factory. The failure of most of the direct-to-consumer brands that spend absurd amounts of money on RUclips ads and sponsorships shows that those "middle men" DO actually serve a purpose.
That purpose being to effectively rip off lazier or unaware consumers
Well....... not exactly. I have been a "Middle Man" on a Chinese product. I did my research and then worked with the Chinese engineers to ensure it met all of my legal and promissory requirements. I paid a LOT for shipping and customs. I ordered spare parts with each purchase and 100% warranty service to my clients. Now you COULD find a similar product on Alibaba - by the same manufacturer, but you are the last person on earth that they will prioritize if you have a need for rare parts or support.
My products also needed additional electrical certification - which I invested in. My products required UPC codes for Amazon. It was very, very time consuming and expensive to provide a quality CANADIAN product that is made in China.
If you have a trusted American (or English, or Canadian) e-bike brand, then it makes no difference if they poured the sand to form the cast for the frame. All that matters is their reputation for support and after-sales parts. Right?
Hi Mr White I'm a Canadian living in Ontario what type bike do you sell and are your products available with warrantees.
@@donsayers4418 Sorry Don, the products I was importing were not ebikes.
As an e-bike owner for the past 8 years, I totally agree with everything you aay in your video. Almost all the components of the so called German brands are made in the Far East places such as China, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc but they’re branded as German products. These so called brands do nothing apart from putting the parts together and selling the final product for at least 5 times what it cost them to purchase and put together. My latest E-bike is a brand called Riese & Muller. The parts esp. the electronic parts on this bike. including such simple thing as a power cable are impossible to source unless you go to their so called dealers here in the UK who then in turn charge you an arm and a leg to supply you the part after weeks and sometimes months of waiting. I w’d never, ever buy a so called European E-bike. My next ebike w’d be one from China that doesn’t claim to be from anywhere else.
Thanks for your insight! I’m in the process of buying an e-bike but heard some horrid stories from retailers not knowing how to fix and equally the brands being unhelpful in resolving any issues with their e-bikes…R&M are a real premium brand so for you to mention the above it makes me thing long and hard whether I should part with my money. specialized seem to be a good alternative maybe? They are a UK well established brand…? Any thoughts 💭
@@MM-pb1se Like I said, I’d never buy fancy brands such as R&M for the reasons enunciated in my original text.
The only honest comment about e bikes on youtube !!
I'm in Toronto, live with around 20 diseases from Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, I get no help from anyone and slowly falling apart inside and out. I used to go in nature a lot, I still try and do but I don't get to go far, and now my heart conditions and pain from spinal fractures limits me greatly.
I heard You say contact You and You will build one for us viewers, Can you build me one from parts that don't look that great, even all banged dented or scratched, I don't care, just the main thing is to be able to handle the bumps so the shock doesn't send vibrations up my spine and further possibly fracture me more.
I"m really poor brother and can show you anything you need, I have my medical file from last ten years now too and the city I grew up in did a newspaper article on my health when I was in hospital too.
I was told tonight those tiny emmo bikes are $200-$300 at costco, and remember I'm in Toronto. I filed my taxes and normally get 200-300 fo what could you build for me for that kinda cash?
Peace and Blessings
This going on with most products to be honest I use to work for a well known tools manufacturer and all they did was buy Chinese made stuff cheap slap some logos on them and a slightly different casing and charge the customers a hell of alot more for the product.
Cough fruit shape on the products Cough
Thanks for the heads up! I lucked out. I decided to be conservative with the cash laid out. It was worth it. I learned a lot: pros and cons. A lot of the decision lies in how much the bike will be used and if the perfection is going to be a passive user (relying on the throttle) or active (pedaling and using the assist).
I am in Montreal. I bought an e-bike 2 years ago from what seems to be a "Chinese-owned" business.
A hydraulic brake housing broke and i went to my bike vendor to buy a new housing so i could redo the job myself. He told me, "We only sell brake levers WITH the housing already attached. We don't change the housing, we don't stock any housing".
I bought a kit and went to another store to buy housing and did the job myself.
Then, one side of my front fork began leaking oil. It's just a gasket problem. I asked the vendor how much to do this job. I was told, in writing by e-mail, "We only sell the forks which cost $95.00 and there's a $75.00 installation fee."
This bike i have has an interesting-looking front end where the forks are "attached" to the handle bars. I look at it and think to myself, "how does it come apart?" The shocks are inverted, too. There must be a way for me to do this job myself.
Your bike shop didn’t have cable housing? That’s very strange.
Some of the direct from China bikes have interesting designs. That meaning, it’ll be interesting trying to find replacement parts ☹️
Hard to help without seeing the bike, but you end up cutting those forks off and starting with standard ones
@@JohnnyNerdOut Thanks for your response. I found a video of another guy in Montreal with the same model as me (bought from the same company). At the beginning of the video i've posted, you can see the bottom of the forks, and starting at 7m59s, and again at 12m23s, you can see how the forks connect to the handlebars.
The oil is leaking down from the "bulging" part of the black part of the fork that meets the chrome part of the shock - the gasket (or seal) is in there, somewhere. I have never seen this job done before. At the bottom of each side, where the chrome shock fits into the black part that attaches to the wheel, there is a "screw"-like "bolt" which screws up into the black piece that the chrome shock fits into - it's visible in this video if you look closely - it's like a chrome-colored "bolt". I have no idea how to change the oil but maybe i just have to flip the bike upside down, remove the front wheel and then get access from above but i am not sure.
I hope you have a better idea of how this bike is made with the video i posted.
ruclips.net/video/kuz3dR8RKmw/видео.html
This has been the case with bike brands and manufacturers since the 80’s as far as I know! The real problem with E-bikes are the manufacturing and disposal of batteries. Also I ride Mt. bikes and now keep running into people on E-bikes in the national forest, where no motorized vehicles are aloud to be. Mind boggling that people think electric motor is not a motor? They move fast and silent and most people I have seen don’t even have the skills to ride E-bikes safely especially off road.
They are lethal in normal traffic, too. I live in a bike friendly city, so we have lots of bikeroads, mopeds are allowed on them though, but you can tell a moped, you can't tell an ebike much of the time. So like when you get to a hill and need to stand up and pump and take a bit more space, you look around and see an old lady or something, on a bike, you dont expect them to overtake you in the middle of the hill, causing all kinds of dangers.
o god one of those
@@Throku if you not expecting other people overtaking you, it is just a silly routine you worked your self into. Caution is key. Anytime. I aggree on the point that elderly people should be extra carefull with e bikes. Many of them did not ride for ages and then got an ebike. Thats dangerous
@@achimaufachse5925 You've never been on a bike in trafic I hear. Come back when you have.
@@Throku Dude. I dont even have a drivers license... I ride every meter on my bike, been the head of the local bike Club for more than 5 years, doin tricks on BMX in Park and Flatland and own 7 Bikes including a Tandem. If you get overtaken by a granny and get scarred, you should consider leaving the road to the grannies.
Great video. Thank you for keeping it real and telling the truth. I’ve recently got into bicycle repair and looking to get into e-bike repair soon, and it’s good to know that there are honest people in the community.
Sorry to invade your comments section with this, but nobody could help me so far. I have a BTwin Tilt 500e, and it started to shut down for "no reason". At first it was very random, but now it shuts down after a time on. The longer it stays off, the longer it stays on when I get to use it. If I'm riding a few times on a day, it will shut down faster every time. It seems like its protecting itself, like in a house when there's a short circuit or the cables are too hot, and the panel shuts down a part of the power. The connection between the battery and the controller seems fine, and I've tested some things to improve it even more to make sure that wasn't it, but sometimes, when it shuts down, I fold the bike so this connection resets, and it gets a little bit better, works for a little bit longer. Sorry if I wrote something weird or wrong, english is not my first language. Can you help me?
First I figured that out and then I found the best model for the lowest price. I saved 500$ just on the brand's name.
Could you do a video on HOW and WHERE to go to get a bike cheap and not get ripped off by knock offs? That would be awsome. :) Great video.
I will. Spoiler alert. It isn’t buying one online
@@JohnnyNerdOut Will definitely be watching out for that one, you have earned a new subscriber today too. Thanks for the quality content brother.
The "brands" that are only middlemen is really common with electric guitars. A brand called Cor-tek in Indonesia and other places are the actual maker for about 25 "brands" of guitars. Sure, all the brands order batches of their specific shape, feature list or specific colors, but they are all CorTek guitars. The funny thing is that Cor Tek also sells their own brand called CORT at significantly cheaper prices. In America we pay for a Logo, not just a product.
Juiced Bikes in CA manufacturers their own ebikes as they own their own factory in China. Also, the CEO, Tora Harris, is also the chief designer and he spends more time in China than here at his offices and warehouses in Chula Vista, CA. He speaks fluent Mandarin and hand picks his workers in China.
Does he pay them the US's minimum wage?
@@tshawtshi3040 Yes, but he pays the Chinese in Mex pesos
Who cares what he pays them LOL
@@davidmann4533 It's funny you say that. I got friendly with one of his workers. She worked at the Juiced Zen Desk which is the place your questions go when you hit "Chat" on the Juiced site at night. She was a 19 yr old girl who ended up quitting, even though she said the money was okay.
I have said build it yourself for 5+ years now. I loved the look of the Ruff-Cycles "Ruffian", but they want $5k for a 750w cruiser? LMAO...no. I built an identical looking 3k watt bike for less than half.
Its looking like I can cram 600w on my bike for like $100.
How much to build me one? Lol
Dont waste your money on an eBike.
a 650cc motorcycle can get close to 60mpg of gasoline. A gallon of gasoline weighs 6 lbs
the best batteries available that can give you 60 miles of range on a bike weigh 100 lbs.
A typical 650cc motorcycle has a 4 gallon tank. The battery equivalent is 400 POUNDS!
But heres the real kicker - there are so many people who buy mid size motorcycles, brand new, ride them for a year or so and they dont like it, they dont know how to ride, they get scared of riding.... that you can get a 650 range motorcycle in the US, with less than 10,000 miles on it, for $3 to $4k easily. The bike will last for 100,000 miles.
Ebikes are just not there yet, and they wont be for another decade. The fundamental appeal of a motorbike is you can fill up the tank, ride all weekend, go several hundred miles in a few days on $20 worth the gas... and never have to worry about where to fill up, or whether you will make it back home.
Heading out on a saturday morning with $100 in your wallet, a 240 mile range on a tank of gas, and seeing where the road takes you is the care-free way to go.
Payed out for a Specialized Turbo Levo Comp……mostly for the dealer support, luckily I do actually love the bike!!
i got my bike converted with a bafang motor 3 years ago.. never had any problem and it wasnt expensive
Give us the details Who did the conversion did you do yourself? How much is inexpensive?
details, pls
I converted my Cube Race 130 with bafang, 500w and It works well. Make sure you install an anti rotating bracket, there's also a guy in Italy who 3d printed an anti chain fall device specific for bafang, It cost 50 bucks but it's worth the money.
I've ordered the battery, ready to go, from AliExpress for 200 USD.
@@skidkite I wish I could do that. No one around to mentor/guide me
@@Yowzoe the more videos you watch, the more you start thinking you can actually do this yourself....you only need basic skills, as long as your not an idiot you can pull it off bro.
I bought an e-bike/Senada that was damaged when I pulled it out of the box; front forks bent.
The Ebike company said THRU TEXTS ONLY, we will send you new forks.My bike mechanic said:IF-you get the correct replacement part, pressing out the front forks & pushing the new forks into the headset may not fit PERFECTLY.Its cheap metal & we don't want to assume the responsibility ...NO CAN DO.
When I tried to get an invoice return number from the company they stopped all communication.
Seems to be the same with everything these days -- seeing alot of it in escooters as well.
True that's why we need those reviewers on RUclips so we can make a clever move. I'm very happy with my widewheel pro scooter and aventon level. Plan to upgrade the ebike at the end of the year
Thank you for the info bud, that was great to let us know. Now i can make better decision when I'm ready to buy my e-bike.
Not just e-bikes. The famous high-end bicycle brand supposedly has a major manufacturer of bicycle frames (for every brand you thought had a factory in your own country) in the far East weld, and possibly paint, their entry to mid-priced bike frames, onto which they install shift components made by name brand manufacturers, combined with their "house brand" proprietary parts, likely manufactured by anonymous far-East companies, likely as not situated in mainland China.
Most of the components are good quality, with those on more expensive models, logically, being better. Some are incompatible with small parts made by other manufacturers.
**Bonus:
With the exception of bicycles in the two thousand plus dollar range, the only place where you will find truly sealed bearings is in the bottom bracket (all brands). Other bearings must be greased by disassembling the part of the bicycle where they are located before being cleaned, inspected, greased by hand, and reassembled and adjusted (requiring special tools and much time).
That's why you won't get your bearings serviced with a basic, or general tune-up.
For $70.- $100.00, you can't expect anyone (with special tools and knowledge, paying a mortgage or rent on a commercial building, only earning money half of the year while paying utilities and staff year-round, many of whom are laid off due to lack of work, never to return next season) to spend 4 hours for a complete cleaning, lubrication, adjustment, and disassembly, cleaning, etc. etc. of a piece of equipment that your life, literally, depends on.
A cheap tune-up will only give your bike what it absolutely needs for the riding season. Some shops don't even remove the wheels and adjust the bearings. Most factory fresh bicycles need adjustments beyond factory spec. to function properly and have a long life.
Bicycle mechanic for over 40 years, soon to retire.
You're welcome!☺
Thanks for the video, I have done the full journey, old bike in the garage, put cheap rear hub on, it was OK, and got me hooked.
Next a new but basic bike and slapped on a Bafang mid drive, very easy and works very well super quiet.
Finally a full sus with a Yamaha system, yes expensive, but it is definitely better than the Bafang, possibly due to the torque sensor,if you have the money buy the best, but the Bafang is extremely good and easy for parts etc.
The rear hub bike has gone.
This happens with almost 98% of everything on the supermarket shelves.
This goes for everything. I worked for a Chinese instrument manufacturing company, they made most of the instruments for almost every single brand sold in this country.
Keep these coming. It's outrageous what bike companies are charging for bikes full stop. Ive been involved with cycling for 40 years. I honestly wish i could find a hobby that would replace it. I'd go back to bmx but my body won't take that now!
Thanks I definitely plan to
@@JohnnyNerdOut What are your thoughts on Rad Power bikes?
Jiu jitsu?
Nothing can replace it! 😁
Bmx is one of the WORST disciplines as far as mark-ups go on their products.
US Specialised and Trek have a lot of their components, from frame, wheels to motors contract manufactured by Taiwans Giant, who in turn have most of their manufacturing done in China. The reality is if you knew the individual manufacturers in China, you could put together a high end/spec bike for a fraction of the price.
But you can't.
But you can't.
Exactly - this is why Giant bikes are generally reviewed as better value for money than Trek or Spesh.
I like hub motor bikes better. You just have to get the right hub motors. If a drivetrain component breaks on a mid drive, you have to fix it or you're walking. You can have your chain break on a hub motor bike and still be able to use the motor. Also on hub motor bikes you can have regenerative breaking which extends the life of your brakes and recharges your battery a little.
This was one of the funniest videos I've seen in a while. Thanks
I'm getting a crank shaft motor to save repair costs in the long run
@Miles Doyle Girl, dont be that stupid. Jesus never created a bicycle. The french did. Jesus have killed millions of bikers in the way to church or family.. Take that..
would love to get a list of manufactures i can order from in the US
@@Jazzman5 LMAOOOOO
Here in Arizona, 50 % senior buyers of class 2 and class 3 E-bikes end up having at least one trip to the emergency room during first month of ownership. A throttle is not your best friend if you do not have the skills. Spot on video here.
Agree with what you say... I have a Shengmilo MX01... if anything goes wrong with it.... I've no idea as to where to go.
No Johnny, they don't just "stick a sticker on and triple the price". subcontracting isn't new, nor is white labelling. They don't just market the bike (cost) they do the import (cost), pay the duties (cost), provide pre-sale service/advice (cost), pay for warehousing (cost), pay for store space/promotion space, provide spare parts/service (cost), warranty support (cost). A dropshipper might just be putting on a sticker, but a proper brand doesn't - they do do all of the value add. Try to understand the economics of commerce... :-) Furthermore, as you admit yourself, identical looking bikes can actually be very different - the same frame might use diferent brakes, gears, batteries or motors, making it a very different bike so buing it "direct" assuming it's the same as any other is simply nonsense. A trusted/respected brand can add significant value - you're recommending buying direct from China... how's that after-sales service working out, or what do you do when you realise the cells are cr*p... Also, you didn't mention the fraudulent customs value forms that chinese shippers may add in and the other duties/taxes often avoided (illegally) - that "three times the cost" is nothing of the sort when you factor everything in. Sure, it CAN be the case that someone adds a sticker and no extra value, but often isn't...
You must be one of these “manufacturers’.
@@davehoward3645 Wow....Johnny has his own simps? He's really made it! :-) Yes...any dissent from the view must be from someone with a vested interest... Nope, I'm not even vaguely connected to the industry or anyone in it... I just prefer facts to half-truths or vague innuendo. He contradicts himself - they're all the same...they change parts.... er...
Yeah... so, almost nobody cares about all the things you're calling value add. Plus you just car salesmened and made up a few things that don't exist for consumer purchases. You can straight up look on alibaba and aliexpress and see how much it costs to get it to your front door. To me, everything you mentioned is anti-value that pointlessly hikes up the price of things they bought without doing any of the actual work to manufacture something. Its not the end-user's problem you decided to warehouse a bulk order you bought from China so you could sell everything at a marktup. Thats YOUR problem to deal with and some refer to that as the "the cost of doing business"
Want to be taken seriously? Design and manufacture your own bikes from the ground up. There is tons of room for improvement with all the cheap connector choices bafang and whatnot came up with. Anybody could easily do better if they'd just do the actual work that China is doing.
@@dustsmoke Seriously? People dont' care about after-sales service? You just spent $2000 and it's faulty and you're going to send it back to China.... ? Also, a trusted brand absolutely adds value - trusted because loads of people have bought from them and recommend them because they're using good componensts etc. Top bBrands have a reputation to maintain - that's why every McDonalds gets an A hygeine rating but independents don't...
That's a huge chunk of the Amazon seller business. Buy something on Alibaba, have it branded with your sticker, and then do your markup. Thats why often so many products look the same but have a different generic brand name.
Thanks for helping people that may not know this information. Great to know, love your videos
Excellent commentary. All the more reason to buy from China/ Alibaba. I purchased a Frey CC direct from China, its a fantastic $3K bike that specs to a 5 or 6K "US-priced" ebike.
all the more reason to not buy jack fucking shit from china....if u can help it, at least
What do you know about the Zhen brand? It is chinese. Marketed as a good quality scooter.
He gave you all a hint at the end..! Buy a Bosch motor. So a hub drive is a Chinese speciality where the rear wheel powers the bike via an electric hub which are prone to dirt and grime etc etc. A Bosch motor for example is a mid mount motor which is is more powerful and built to a higher standard of sealing and parts. Hub drive bikes have their place but if you can afford a mid mount Bosch powered bike for example but the $$$ difference is substantial. Nothing is cheap unless you can afford to service it, keep it running and access the parts you need.
Thanks for your honesty.
Everything Specialized bikes sell are from Taiwan lol. But it’s excellent quality
I know… worked for one of the first swedish e-bike brand. Lifebike. All we did was importing from the chinese manufacturer, selling and support/spareparts.
Put a dummy near a window to distract the sharp shooters.. Good info.. My first ebike 10 years ago was a hub and service was a nightmare for this very reason.. Got a Trek ebike last month from LBS, I paid more but warrenty is excellent and service shouldn't be an issue.
How do I find out who are the brand names in ebikes?
No wonder lots of bikes from different brands look a like. Just like motorcycles in Mexico and South America have similar if not the same motorcycle but different name.
I've even seen them put "Honda" on those things! Anybody that knows bikes knows good well they're not Honda.
So, I'm not sure if you know this, but the better brands will collaborate with manufacturers via Alibaba to see if the products they make are worth selling to the brand's customers.
The reason most manufacturers won't deal with individual customers is because it costs more for the manufacturer to ship single parts or products at a time than filing orders for dozens, hundreds, or even thousands at a time.
Plus, with most products made in China, Taiwan, Japan, or other countries that actually have the raw materials needed to make products, even local shops need to rely on manufacturers for parts and products.
Both of the “manufacturers” you mention are actually “brands” in this example.
I have three custom ebikes super range 30+ mph
Same with Laptop computers - some 'brands' make their own, but most have a goto manufacturer that will put your tweaks in a device and place your label and off you go. But like almost everything you buy, sources for components come from a myriad of manufactures - and the one company that assembles it get their name on it.
Yep happens for most products. I worked in air-conditioning and eventually sales and just from having installed brands like Samsung, Panasonic, LG, and then later in sales, saw that the units were the same just relevantly branded, sometimes only having further differences in the compressor or control unit being different.
Word on the lineset is that York is making its USA comeback
?
This really explains why when I was shopping for one, almost none of the websites had a "spare battery" option under accessories or anything. They had baskets and racks galore! I would think a spare battery would be a smart option to carry an extra one on you, especially for longer treks. I thought that was the craziest thing to not offer them.
same lol i cannot find a spare battery for sale for any ebike anywhere
but the battery is detachable , so why not sell a replacement
You can find replacement batteries on Amazon no problem
That’s a good idea! I never thought about buying extra battery for longer rides. The bike I just bought sells batteries. 😀
You can run two batteries. I've watched a few videos about it on youtube. There's a device for about $60. I don't remember the name but it was easy to find.
Amazon sells dozens of batteries for ebikes
Thank you, Johnny. It's guys like you that show us the way. Keep it up. I'll be reaching out to you on your website.
Agree mostly- hub motors are not a solid “garbage” classification
I will buy my next gen Specialized Turbo Levo from Alibaba, yes
I am in China and have an ebike retail business. What you have said is totally true. Most brands in Europe and USA are made basically from China. I have seen this very much. My company in China is ready to connect buyers to the right manufacturer.
Let’s connect, there’s a huge market in canada for parts
The truth will set you free...thanks 4 the info
But first it’ll piss you off.
To many middle men that’s the problem,it gets in the way of innovation I believe as bikes haven’t really changed to much only got a whole lot more expensive and not that good quality..I could buy a good Japanese motorcycle for the price of these things and the brakes would work better also..I would also get more miles out of the chain and sprockets...It’s all one big con..I think most will tire of this BS..Ebike quality has a long way to gooooo.
I agree used moped from and old person who can no longer ride the better way to go !
Yup, my Neutral safety switch went out in my 4 winns boat, Kenny's marina wanted $87. I picked up this micro switch from an electric supplier for .84 cents. I've seen that in every industry I've ever been in.
It's like cellphones. There are many OEM's. They sell to whomever. You'll see the same SKU with different brands.
Thank you so much for your invaluable information, highly appreciate it.
I used to work for KB horseshoes. The owner sent one of each part to china. Sold all the milling machines, fired all the workers, sold the property, moved to Idaho and now just ships out of his shed. A thanks for all of your years of service would have been nice.
Johnny, you"ve got my attention. Great information that has already modified my view of ebike purchase. Had to subscribe, just to see what kind of fatal "accident" you suffer at the hands of the bike sales mafia. LOL
Great info. This is facts right here.... I do love my hub motor tho 👀. Gonna check out your vid on why they suck, lemme see if it changes my mind
I keep hearing people talk about this. But my brain works logically and he doesn't say anything bad about the the competition. He just keeps calling them middle Men. And that's not a bad thing.
I bought a used (I assume because of the date on the battery case) 2020 City Coco 1500. It is made in China and refurbished by Kugoo in Russia. At any rate I paid 45,000 rubles back in October of 2021 (I gave the guy an extra 5,000 because I couldn't risk under paying him but I could have got it for 40,000.)
I took it completely apart and discovered a rat's nest where the controller sat, rusting there and in the battery compartment, a plug in the tire, etc. (nothing that could not be recovered.) But it was complete and working which is important to note. I know he did make some alterations but nothing major. I checked the Kugoo website and the same scooter went for 15,000 more rubles brand new than what I paid.
Long story short I am now doing a rebuild. I am upgrading the battery from a 1500 to a 2000. I am changing the controller, motor, and all the inferior plastic and cheap rubber parts. I expect in the end to be 130,000 into it with 15,000 or so in spare parts that I could sell off or reuse if needed.
I want to say what you are saying is true if you are 3-4 hours away from a larger city with retailers or if you are driving distance from stores but here it is isolated and having access to name brands is difficult if not too expensive (if available at all?) I just want to make that clear. Not all consumers are in the driver's seat when it comes time to get what they desire the most in a timely and fair manner. Some people, like myself, do not even have shops that work on these kinds of scooters? I am lucky if I can finish this build with the previously mentioned investment amount. It is just one of the things one must accept when moving out in the boonies.
I bought the BaFang conversion kit direct from the maker in China, with 2 batteries. They were super responsive and helpful and I had it all delivered to where I am in Taiwan within 2 weeks. A local bike shop did the conversion for me and charged me 100 bucks. Rides like a dream. And I got a 1000W motor that lets me do the hills with no problems. Definitely cheaper than buying an OEM re-branded bike from a retailer. All the off the rack e-bikes here are way under-powered and very expensive. I converted a 20 year old Trek and it's like a whole new bike. :) BTW, BaFang is pronounced "Bah-Fong" ---not BaFANG where the fang sounds like 'bang.' :)
Hey question around how much did u spend?
@@zaya14. About USD1500
@JohnnyNerdOut A question: If you had a Bafang 750W BB02, would you switch from a derailleur to a internal gear hub and if so or if not, why?
I would generally. I like my IGH. Sometimes I wish I had the 8 speed instead of the 5 speed though. I have a video on this exact subject coming out very soon. But long story short as you can use a single speed chain with an internally cured hub and that is generally much stronger. And it keeps perfect chain alignment.
Boy have I got news for you, conventional bikes are like this as well, there's only a few frame manufacturers, like two drivetrain manufacturers, and a handful of tire manufacturers. In fact, everything is like this, cars are like this too
Thanks man, you just saved me alot of money 👍🏿🙏🏿
You get what you pay for.. there's always a reason one costs more.. 'The cheap one' may have not have passed quality control or
may have weaker parts like thin spokes or cheap rims.. I worked in manufacturing a long time and the parts that didn't pass inspection go to the 'cheaper' brands.
fabulousebikes is a Canadian ebike company. Their ebikes are manufactured in China like most others, however, they're very high spec with unique designs. They have a wide array of replacement parts in stock, delivery is fast and customer service is very responsive. They've also just branched out to the US market. Definitely worth checking out.
Not just bikes, pritty much everything!
Yeah! mugged with a smile everyday bro