The dumbest bike law you've never heard of
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- Опубликовано: 22 мар 2023
- 50 years ago, the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission drafted a set of (well meaning) regulations concerning bicycles. As a result, we are required to sell "sidewalk bicycles" with foot brakes, otherwise known as "coaster brakes". While this only applies to the smallest bicycles, it does limit our choices, and seriously limits how smaller mountain bikes can be engineered. Today we'll talk about this law and what it means.
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BIG UPDATE! The CPSC is accepting public comments about removing the footbrake requirement for kids bikes. Go to this link to submit a comment: www.regulations.gov/commenton/CPSC-2023-0023-0001 The more people that go there and post that they support revoking the footbrake requirement, the better. This was an initiative championed by Woom, a large manufacturer of children's bikes. Good on them for getting the ball rolling, and putting some real dollars into getting the message out.
This is great!
This is great info after watching your push bike video. Would be great to have more options as a consumer to decide what's best on our own. And by the looks of it, there are lots of options, and many of them are good!
Seth , you're having more fun on that little bike than your 2 year old . Ha Ha.
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Nice you saved 1$ on that bike 😂😂😂
Next time use metric; kg and celsius sistem because europeans wach these videos too
Finally Seth has found a bike that looks small on him. Tearing down zombie laws like this should not be so hard for sure.
Walmart 5 minutes after repealing this law… “We don’t need to put brakes on kids bikes anymore? That’ll save us 50 cents!”
@@gvr41510 😂 lol
It will be harder than you think, at the first serious effort you're going to see two different lobbyist groups crawl out of the woodwork defending these zombie laws. Helicopter parents and law enforcement. Helicopter parents are the obvious one, but law enforcement use weird bicycle laws as a way to extort revenue out of poor people
Unless there's the weight of some big tech lobbyist, it'll never happen. So stupid
Haha
Obviously the regulators forgot to get an engineer involved. An engineer would have specified a minimum stopping distance in rain with a given force applied on a specified handle determined to be within the capability of a 3year old. We would have had hydraulic brakes 20years sooner.
Sounds just exactly like an Engineer
Rarely laws are made by the people who should make them. This is why politics as a whole are broken. Education in the hands of people who want to destroy it, women's rights in the hands of mentally deranged men, child bicycle part compliance made by people who've likely never used a bicycle in their entire life, as is often the case with rich politicians... yet another pudding to prove the point of the system's broken nature. I swear, the further in time we go, the clearer it gets, politicians as they are, is the wrong way to go.
I’m an engineer, I’ve also reiisrbYeah right, I’ve ridden BMX bikes with coasters…they’ve skidded for like 60ft before…
With bicycle brakes, there’s too many variables; take for example plastic mag wheels - see, traditional bicycle brakes *non coaster* work by friction of the brake pad rubbing on the rim… however, plastic mag wheels, wear increasingly more smooth (the friction of the brake pads effectively Polish the surface which it’s supposed to be slowing with friction), so the brakes become literally less effective after every single time the brakes are applied…it’s like rubbing two sticks together to start a fire, the friction makes the sticks’ rubbing area more & more smooth & friction becomes proportionally less as the surfaces become increasingly polished…
would that really be practical as a law though? Do all breaks sold on the market have to undergo some standardized test to certify their minimum stopping distance in the (simulated?) rain with a standardized setup and standardized force applied to a standardized handle? I guess that's not insane given the german StVZO bicycle lights requirements being rather detailed as well, and that apparently do get enforced, but still also seems non-trivial to regulate.
This brought back a memory from my childhood from the '50s. I learned to ride a bike on a hand-me-down with coaster brakes. When I got my first new bike for Christmas, I have a vivid memory of taking off down the street and when I tried to stop there was no Coster brake. There were no handbreaks either! I ended up colliding with a parked car so I came out okay. When my mom caught up with me she figured out that the bike was direct drive. Kind of like the penny farthing (great video, BTW).
My other vivid memory was my mom's rage at the bike shop owner who said that's just the way they came. If we wanted brakes, it would be an extra charge.
I suspect that's the kind of bike the whacko law was intended to outlaw.
Wait! You're telling me that you got a brand new bike with NO brakes! WTF, yah no duh a law gets passed that's f'en stupid.
Proof that "fixies" ruin everything.
@@LiterallyCensoredDaily odd. My takeaway was how profiteering businesses lacking any combination of ethical intention, basic logic, an influential R&D team, or a confident retribution-free self-policing policy create the unfortunate necessity for an under informed, less emotionally invested, more easily influenced by corrupt actors outside resource to deal w the angry parents demanding "fixies". The list of resources is pitiful when attempting to reach a tone deaf producer.
my reflectors are long gone
@@LiterallyCensoredDaily Fixies with no brakes are fine on the racetrack, but have no place on public roads!
I love riding my daughter's Prevelo. When we ordered it, the rear disc brake upgrade was $1. It was clear that was how Prevelo intended to sell the bike.
You'd be a fool not to pay that $1
Yeah Prevelo sold me an entire rear wheel with freehub for super cheap, no way they made money on it. LOVE our Prevelo Zulu 2
@@mattspen they made money elsewhere
@@thunderb00m I see your point that Prevelo bikes they are pricey, but most equally pricey kids bikes don’t offer an extra rim+plus tire for $20! ($50 now)
@@thunderb00m they probably baked the extra cost into the base price.
I'm aware that few different manufacturers have found clever ways around this law, but it usually means doing something confusing or expensive. How many other laws do you know of like this? Example: requiring new mountain bikes to come with reflectors preinstalled
here in the uk , law says anyone over 10 must ride on the road, which i think is absurd.
@@DingersTV plus you get given grief by motorists for riding on the road then you get given grief for riding on the pavement so no matter what you do, you can’t win in the uk, the government needs to change the policies and add more bike lanes
@@andrewsouthern3517 dont get me started on how others treat you, ive been sideswiped multiple times on the road, threatened on the path, no matter where you cycle theres always someone with an opinion or a grudge against you
Seth, don’t just complain! Petition your state legislature to have the law updated. Participation is the core of American democracy! Plead your case for why the law is outdated and how to write it so kid’s bikes are safer. If you don’t find the process educational, hopefully at least you’d find it entertaining 😅.
Here in Indiana reflectors are required if riding at night...few follow that law. But no real odd requirements equipment wise. While looking into it I discovered that it's apparently illegal to stand up and pedal while riding and you must be seated....thankfully much of indiana is flat.
Gotta remember a lot of people buy their bikes at Walmart where the normal brakes might be defective or installed improperly out of the box
I really loved the simplicity of coaster brakes as a kid, never did mountain biking though. I always had front and rear brakes too. They were just simple, reliable, and fun. When i did upgrade to a mountain bike it was easy to get used to free hubs.
I don’t get what your point is. You said it yourself. It’s because most people are buying a cheap bike for their kid to ride for a summer and likely don’t know how to work a screwdriver. Hence the reliable coaster brake… You want to get around the coaster brake and your kid gets hurt because, no brakes. That’s on you. No lawsuit allowed.
@@elijahrebello1 You want to get around the coaster brake and your kid gets hurt because, no brakes. That’s on you. really loved the simplicity of coaster brakes as a kid.
Hi from Australia,
I learnt to ride with those stupid brakes and would lock up on me causing many a scraped knee. The 1st time I rode a mountain bike my friend forgot to tell me about the hand break and I was rapidly pedaling backward and ended up sailing right into someone's tent
I used to rollerskate when I was young. On skates, you do a 180 and go up on your toes to stop because that's where the brakes were. I got rollerblades as an adult, and when I came up to a road across the bike path, I automatically did that. Going up on your toes doesn't work so well on rollerblades. Luckily, I had enough coordination that I didn't end up eating the pavement, but I figure the person who stopped at the crossing may have found it amusing.
“Good day sir! how is your day going?” In all seriousness I hope you and the tent owner where alright and unharmed
"Aim for the bushes? Oh look, even better!"
Since it's Australia and not LA, hope someone was just camping in there and you didn't destroy their home
@@amosbackstrom5366 underrated lol
Ah, the ~~joys~~ (hazards) of being forced to learn what mostly isn't in the real world.
As a kid I used to love my coaster break, burning rubber for hours. I’d literally drive up and down my driveway locking up the back and turning. So fun.
Depending on the use on pavement i get it
My neighbor across the street was pissed when I taught his kids how to do skids with the coaster brake. He came home from work and there were about 150 rubber streaks on his new driveway, and a blown tire on his kid's bike.
Hydraulic Disc will lock up too...
@@BigDish101 yes, but they would cost as much as some people's whole bike, require special tools for maintaining, one of several shapes of brake pads instead of a universal design, and simply didn't exist on bicycles in the late 80s and early 90s when I was little.
For that matter, I have been able to lock up every type of brakes except side pull with plastic levers,even when I weighed 400 lbs!
@@BigDish101 The issue with coaster brakes and skids is that because they are also direct drive, and most people tend to brake with the pedals in the same spot, the SAME SPOT on the tire gets all the wear from the skid.
I grew up with coaster breaks and was very confused and had to relearn how to ride when I got my first hand-me-down mountain bike. Which was also pretty steep since it was "If you do it wrong you'll fly over your handle bars" oh, that's scary.
Today my dad hates hand breaks because he's so used to coaster breaks. He's confused why they got rid of them and I'll certainly be sending him this video later because I'm sure it'll answer a lot of his questions.
We really like either not teaching at all or teaching you how to do it wrong first then figure out the right way later.
Ah that "If you do it wrong you'll fly over your handle bars" is soooo familiar. People are actually afraid of well functioning brakes!! We have a bicycle sharing service here in Hungary and ALL of them has shitty breaks. You cannot do an emergency stop. All I could think of is that they probably rather give you subpar breaks than actual good ones people may not use correctly go over the handle bars.
Also interesting: we also had a thing people said which goes something like "yeah, take my bike for a ride, but please do not shift" - that was because we had a lot of very low quality "mountain bikes" with badly configured / bad quality derailleurs and shifters, so using the shifter actually could cause issues.
@@Pityke4 Oh crud that makes sense. I had a hand-me-down MT bike and I recall at one point the derailleur didn't like shifting, if you did you'd get the click but then it'd linger on the gear for 10+ seconds before it finally CLONK-D over.
My family had zero exp with mountain bikes so there wasn't a lot of maintenance that went on with that bike. Despite that it was still the best bike I had at the time given we were poor and the odds of me getting a new bike were zero unless someone was tossing out their old one.
But yeah I get the idea behind 'please do not shift on my bike' because I wasn't even sure if something would break. I think eventually it got sorted, but it was ages ago.
But on your first point, yeah IDK what's up with that statement "you'll go over your bars" like- how fast are you going and how hard are you hitting that front break where that'd be a worry right? I swear it was just a myth that perpetuated.
I'm really happy to have even the basic mechanical disk breaks, it's a lot better for emergency breaking.
Yes. Coaster brakes are bad! No need for them. One downside is when you have stopped and your pedal is not in the right position try getting it there. You'd have to lift up your back wheel or roll forward, which is not always possible on say, hills. Also deraileurs and coaster brakes are a nightmare
@@Snotnaroknot to mention but 70% of braking is done with the front brake. It works better than the back, and there's no coaster brake for front wheels
@@joneinarmattiasvisser6113 Yeah, that much I recall from my childhood, I had zero interest in coaster breaks after using even my cruddy rim breaks (as in they were of poor quality not saying rim breaks are just bad).
Better stopping, none of that nonsense with stopping with the pedals at a bad spot.
My dad insists they were better but I'm like- dad, in no way they were better in any, way. He still has a bike from the . . . IDK 1960s that is for an adult and has coaster breaks. Hasn't been used in 30 years at least but, still sat around in the shed.
I always hated coaster brakes on kids bikes. Never knew it was because of a law, though.
The first thing a kid does when panicking is take their feet off the pedals, and try to use their feet to stop.
Hate coaster brakes almost as much as training wheels, and try to dissuade people away from both.
Love your videos, Seth, both as a mountain biker, and a fellow parent.
Seth’s one to talk about safety, he’s the king of sketchy stuff! 😂
When the guy that does the sketchiest shit says "This is too sketchy" you know that shit's sketchy!
@@MxCraven too true 😆
Does he wear Skechers?
@@SummitMTB what else would he wear?
To fight evil you must become evil ;)
Coaster brakes taught us all how to throw a bike sideways too, they're an educational aid!
=COASTER BRAKES TAUGHT ME HOW TO CONTROL DOWNHILL SPEED BY UNDERBRAKING,KIND OF
...........IN ACTUAL IT'S MUCH BETTER IN TERMS OF CONSERVING ATTENTION ON WHAT'S GOING BEFORE YOU WITH SOLID SEPARATION LIKE HANDS FOR STEER,LEGS FOR PEDALING/BRAKING.......
Coaster brakes on a motorized beach cruiser taught me how to have a near death experience on a steep hill.
I never dechained a bike until i rode a free hub.
@@robotnikkkk001 thats a bad argument, you have 3 things you have to do and 2 inputs to do those things with, so one of them is always gonna handle 2. "hands for steering, legs for pedaling/braking" is the same as "hands for steering/braking and legs for pedaling" by your logic. Coaster brakes are shitty, you dont have as fine of a control on the force applied and the inability to spin freely backward can screw you up on turns and can cause accidental braking. Theres a reason you dont see normal adult bikes sold with coaster brakes, theyre a crutch for children to learn, and thats about it.
@@SpydersByte .....THERES 2 INPUTS ANYWAYS SO ALREADY IT'S EQUAL
.......ALSO CONTROL ON THE FORCE APPLIED IS AS FINE AS IT'S ON "NORMAL" BRAKES........JUST IT'S ABOUT PRACTICE........
.....ARGUMENT ON "CANNOT SPIN FREELY BACKWARDS" IS *_PURELY_* SUBJECTIVE...........AS DOWNHILL SPEED FAR MUCH EXCEEDS PEDALING SPEED,SO POSITIONING PEDALS BY SLIGHTLY MOVING FORWARD WONT CAUSE ANY INCONVINIENCE........IT'S ONLY BECAUSE OF HABIT...........LIKE WASD VERSUS ARROW KEYS........ARGUMENT IS ABSOLUTELY INVALID,JUST BECAUSE OF IT'S ABOUT FOLLOWING HABITS
..........IN ACTUAL,COASTER BRAKES EVEN HAVING 2 ADVANTAGES OVER "NORMAL" ONES......LIKE FORCE OF BRAKING ITSELF.......ABOUT FINGERTIPS VERSUS LEGS........SO BRAKING WILL BE 100% ALMOST INSTANT AND FULL...COMPARED TO HOW MUCH FINGERTIPS MUST VE BEEN TRAINED TO ENSURE ENOUGH GRIP FORCE...AND ALSO MOVING THROUGH WET CONDITIONS.......WITH OPEN BRAKES........U KNOW WHAT I'M ABOUT,RIGHT????......WHEN COASTER BRAKES ARENT SUBJECTED TO THAT KIND OF PROBLEM
.......REACTION TIME ALSO THE SAME..........THANKS TO HOW POWERFUL LEGS ARE............
......ALSO IT'S VERY IMPORTANT ABOUT FINGERTIPS ARE BECOMING SORE REALLY FAST,AND THAT IMPACTING WHOLE HAND,THOUGH............WHICH CAN BE DANGEROUS AT PINPOINT ACCURATE STEERING DOWNHILL.........THAT'S FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE,THOUGH.....OF COURSE IT'S ABOUT TRAINING BUT THE SAME THING GOES AGAINST,LIKE WHY NOT TO TRY TRAINING COASTER BRAKES MASTERING INSTEAD
...........SO,ALL THE ARGUMENTS FOR "NORMAL" BRAKES ARE COUNTERED WITH "IT'S JUST A HABIT" .......WITH 1 SIGNIFICANT BENEFIT ABOUT WET CONDITIONS........
.........SO,BASICALLY.......IT ALL DEPENDS........
.....ALSO HAVE U EVER MEET PROFESSIONAL COASTER BRAKES THAT TO MANAGE OUT BETTER CONTROL OF APPLIED FORCE??--NOO........ONLY PRIMITIVE ONES,RIGHT?????
...........ONLY THING THAT CAN BE FOR "NORMAL" BRAKES IS LIKE IT'S APPLIED ON FRONT WHEEL........WHEN COASTER BRAKES ARE ABOUT TO DO ONLY WITH REAR WHEEL........SO,COMBINING THESE 2 IS ACTUALLY IDEAL THING,I GUESS.......GETTING BEST FROM BOTH WORLDS.....AND ONLY A BIT OF ADDITIONAL TRAINING IS NEEDED.......
......SO,AGAIN,COASTER BRAKES ARE BLAMED FOR NOTHING...................ONLY FOR NOT FOLLOWING HABITS......SAME AS WASD........ESPECIALLY IF THERE'D BE A PROFESSIONAL COASTER BRAKES..........
When I was very young, I didn't have the coordination to operate handbrakes while maintaining control. The coaster brake allowed me to stop the bike without affecting the front wheel and also simply put my feet on the ground to stabilize it if I needed to. It actually does still have a place for kids who aren't yet able to coordinate multiple things with their hands and feet at once. The hands have one job, to manage the front wheel, and the feet have one job, to work the pedals (including backwards to stop if need be).
This guy seems like a great dad, keep up the good work man :)
I'm 74 and have been a serious cyclist for over 50 years. In my stable of bicycles I have two '70s Raleigh Sports, one of which has a coaster brake (and a front caliper brake). I use the English bikes with it's raining, because they have fenders and a chain guard, and I ride the coaster brake model when it is really wet, because it absolutely will stop even if it's pouring, whereas the other Sports with two caliper brakes may not stop.
that brings the lack of antiskid on bikes into thought.
If you need any sort of anti skid device on a bike maybe riding a bike isn't your thing.
coaster brakes are the reason I got 28 stitches as a child. The chain fell off and I couldn't stop and I went over a 6ft cliff. (not big to me now but back then was quite big) Thanks for the information about this law, I agree with you on this subject and hope there is change in the future.
6 foot drop is one of the leading causes of workplace deaths in the US. Don't under sell it 😅
I had that happen more than once as a kid (the chain coming off the gears, not the cliff).
I resorted to "alternate" stopping methods, like turning uphill if there was room, jumping off the bike and into a run while turning the bike toward a yard or bushes, doing a Fred Flintstone with the sole of my shoe as a brake against the front tire, and once I jammed the toe of my shoe into the front spokes.
- I do NOT recommend that last one to anybody!
I have never seen bike with coaster brakes without a front brake, but my childhood was in the early 2000s. And here in Poland they can fine u if you don't have working brakes
@@96HUDY My childhood preceded yours by 20-30 years, and back then, there were coaster brakes on every bike with wheels smaller than 24 inches in diameter and caliper brakes on everything larger than the coaster brake bikes.
Oh, and often caliper brakes turned into NO brakes after a year or so of leaving the bike outside in the elements, causing the cable(s) to rust up, or rust through, or the rubber pads to dry rot away.
-
The 1970's had some fun danger!
@@MonkeyJedi99 Yep, as a teenager I sometimes used to have bicycles with no brakes on daily usage, as the caliper brakes were prone to faults and bothersome to fix, so most of the time I just didn't bother. I found out that usually the best alternative way for braking was to press shoe heel against ground while supporting leg against pedal. That was my main braking method for long times and once learned, worked routinely well enough - or at least felt so, not very powerful nor safe though. But it was the careless teen age. Needed just new shoes every so often - and also used rubber glue and pieces of rubber to "renew" shoe heels.
Then I grew up and lost interest into those chain gears which are also troublesome per se, and have since made sure every bike I acquire have coaster brakes.
And about the original comment, the coaster brake was not the reason of your stitches - the reason was not having alternative brakes. And handbrakes have failed on me way more often than chain has fallen.
I grew up with coaster brakes obviously and I loved them. They were so fun doing burn outs, but I grew up in the mountains. When I got my first mountain bike as a 12ish year old, the free wheel was crazy to me. I thought it was so cool, but it took literal years for me to understand that I wouldn’t break the bike if I peddled backwards. It also took me much longer to be confident braking with the hand brakes. Now every bike I ride is a free wheel, and when I ride coaster bikes I always accidentally engage the brakes at full speed!
Seen from Europe, America sometimes seems like the land of contradictions: you have to have double brakes for safety on a children's bike but you can change the engine of your 1982 VW T3 that has 45 horsepower to a 150 horsepower Subaru engine (or more) without anyone coming to check if you have adequate brakes. We love you for this, because you are crazy!
As a matter of fact, mountain biking pretty much STARTED with coaster brakes--look up the Repack Race, which is named for re-packing the grease in a coaster after you've smoked it out by using it downhill. A strange but important footnote to this video.
I still know people who build coaster brake mountain bikes to bomb around on in the desert. You don’t see any racers on them these days 😂 but they’re fun and nostalgic.
@@SethsBikeHacks Haha, nice. A good flat desert sounds about right for a coaster brake.
They're supposed to be greased?!
@@moonshinershonor202 Yep. I'd post a link to the Park Tool article titled "Coaster Hub Overhaul" that explains in detail, except YT blocks comments that link external websites.
@@SethsBikeHacks i like to ride trails with a coaster mullet; disk up front, CB in the rear. If you understand and respect the limitations of the machine, it works just fine.
There's a semi-annual race in the Valley called the "coaster brake challenge," put on by Atomic Cycles in Van Nuys. No front brakes allowed, no IGHs, not even kickback 2 speeds.
Try to open your mind up a lil bit.
You should issue a challenge to all visitors to Berm Peak - run that kids bike (with the freehub and disc brakes of course) through the place, and their times up on a leader board.
That sounds like a top gear rip off.
In which case. Who's gonna be stig?..
@@TheWebstaff SingleTrackSampler dressed in a onesie, complete with an oversized pacifier and bonnet?
I want to do it on my 77 stingray
@@krazi77 That sounds like an entirely different board.
Would you be up for doing it on his Swing King Elite?
@@MrMartinSchou YES this!!!!
When I was a kid in 70’s I had a coaster brake that also had 3 speeds internally by changed by clicking back on the coaster brake. Loved that feature.
Man this was informative as I guess I didn’t really think about a kid needing a freewheel but you are right.
Thanks for helping the issue to go mainstream. We want to buy “I’ll fight Zombies for you” Merch!
ㅉ❤❤😂😂😂❤❤😂😂😂😂😂😂ㅉㅉ😊
Yep i agree, i had this cheap ass bike with coaster brakes when i started bike channel and before i got my cheap ass bike, and that had a free hub, so i was used to moving the pedals to the other side to make clearance for a really sharp turn you have to really lean for, and you can probably guess what happens next, turned the corner moving the pedals to the other side drifted into a tree, i got a concussion, but im ok now
@@normanandalfie good to hear you're okay now haha 🙏
@@treky0 of gas ⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽⛽
I agree it is a stupid law...but I think the coaster brakes put the fun in bike riding like for the ultimate skid turn around when you slam the pedals back to put the brakes on for example. I wish I could put coaster brakes on my "adult" bike; it much rather have the good old fashioned pedal brakes than the brakes on the handlebars and then get rid of the handle bar brakes...sounds like a plan if only I knew how to work on bikes!
As a kid in the 80s my big brother taught me how to dismantle the brakes and turn costers into freewheel. Learned so much from that guy still do.
I used to do the same just from being curious. We used to call it changing the guts.
Take the three push plates out and shim the gap with two washers, then you have a freecoaster which you can adjust by removing a washer!
Roll back tricks and flatland tricks, when you don't want the cranks moving backwards become easier😎
Interesting! This was something I wanted to know. Thank you for the right amount of info in the right time span.
I have purchased Prevelo bikes for my kids for our last three bike purchases and will be buying a fourth this summer. They are fantastic bikes! Any time we take them to a bike shop or bike park people are amazed to see such high quality components on a Kid-Size bike. We have the Zulu 2, Zulu 3, and Zulu 4. This summer I'm buying an Alpha Zero for our soon to be 2-year old.
The first mountain bikes to ever be made used to be nicknamed re-packs, because they were just modified cruisers with coaster brakes and you had to re-pack the bearings after each run down the mountain. The grease would all burn up by the time you were done
Yet another reason why coaster brakes just don't work for mountain biking.
@@InventorZahran Yeah, it's very situation dependent. In flat country coaster brakes are often maintenance free, reliable for literaly decades and you can still brake in an aerodynamic position.
I grew up a 70’s BMX kid with nothing but coaster brakes until I think I was 12. Despite everything you said, I still want to build a adult sized BMX bike with coaster brake. Nothing beats a power skid from jamming back your right leg 😁
fixie slides are pretty fun but you’re not wrong
Been living in England since I was born and would travel to finland 3-4 times a year to visit my grand parents as a kid, some of the most fun I had in the summer over there was riding my little bike with the coaster breaks and doing power slides at the bottom of the hill haha. They aren't the best but definitely fun for sure 🙏
I'm with Dan on this. It might not fit the expectations of the entire adult world, but I loved the control having that coaster brake gave me. I am sure there are alternate techniques one could develop to level with a coaster, like pedaling forward since the bike is moving toward the turn.
Another thing about safety is I've had cantilever, V, and disc brakes fail on bikes a lot more often than I've had a chain fall off and remove coast brake function. If anything, coast brakes shouldn't be the only brake, because why not have both? I think they're more reliable than represented. If they weren't that regulation would be gone, because of all the extra dead kids.
A cheap pair of v brakes with good pads can easily lock up the rear in the exact same way. Discs even easier.
@@GreenLegendRanI have never, I mean never...had a brake failure. I maintain all my bikes personally, and I dont see how you could lose front and rear brakes at the same time...i just dont. How did it happen? Honest question.
Thank you for watching out and speaking up for our community.
Great content! 😎🚲
Seeing a grown man stop a kids bike with brake rotors was hilarious to watch 😂
During high school (the 60's) I had a garage business servicing coaster brakes. It made me a small amount of money, was more fun than working at the grocery store, and it gave me a head start on an engineering degree. 👍
You can get hub brake for front wheel as well using hand lever.
honestly growing up hated the coaster brakes but once i had my first free hub mountain bike my next issue is the super cheap turn style shifters on lower end bikes that even my parrents could hardly turn. eventually moved to dual levers with hydraulic sick brakes and riding has been great
My very first bike had foam rubber solid tires and a fixie hub. I then graduated to a BMX with 16" wheels with a coaster brake.
I have a trash picked 1940 CCM . It has a coaster brake and I have installed a cheap side pull caliper for extra security. Problem with that is that my rim aren't flat on the sides. It's more like a bump, so it doesn't take long at all to wear the pads out.
This brings back memories of hopping off my old Huffy & getting on my mountain bike just to realize I forgot it didn't have a coaster brake. Foot would slip off, nuts hit the bar, and I'd drag my feet to the curb 😂
Nuts hit the bar! I know that feel!
To this day I still don't understand why they don't make all casual/kids/commuter bikes more like women's bikes.
@@norezenable It's finally picking up! There is the Specialized Roll, Trek Verve, and I know Cannondale has something extremely similar. Even though it's not the predominant style it's no longer difficult to find one at a local shop.
I naturally leveled my pedals from the get go, my father had to find a bike shop to remove the coaster brakes because it was actually preventing me from learning how to ride a bike. Once it was gone I was riding like crazy.
I had to do the same thing on my kids bikes, it was literally keeping them to ride correctly as well..
@@oliebimbol7371 yep real easy to engage the brake and end up over the bars and into traffic and get run over..... coaster brakes are horrible
I had the same problem as a kid, but my parents weren't that knowledgeable about bikes. After I managed to end up bloodying my knee for the 3rd time in a week because I couldn't level off without braking OR break the inclination, I stopped riding. Trying to get back into biking again as an adult has been embarrasing...
@@KiraSlith eh some can't swim some can't ride. I've met adults that can't drive. I wouldn't fret to much to the point it embarrass you. You'll get it.
@@scubamech707 plenty of adults that can't drive, sad thing is most of them have their license 😂
Love the Mountain Drawings in the background. I have the same ones for my local ski mountains.
This is similar to regulations that were passed little over a decade ago regarding importation of bikes with certain wheel sizes based on the paint used. I remember it affecting the BMX riders as foreign bike manufacturers were barred from selling in the US until they changed the paint they were using. I remember comments about how no one was going around licking their bikes.
Actually the founding fathers of MTB used to ride the coaster brake bikes down the mountain. Repack Ridge takes its name from repacking those back with grease which was necessary after each ride...
Yes, at that point in time the caliper brakes in use on road bikes were too weak to do much for a 50lb klunker flying down a fire road. Cantis are what finally gave MTBs safe levels of stopping power.
Given the choice between coaster brakes or old caliper brakes I'd choose coasters too. they suck but at least you can stop, not just slow down slightly.
Even most old cantilever brakes are so bad I wouldn't dare send it down any real trail.
Yeah but sadly a lot of people ignore the bay area roots of mtb
Atomic Cycles still host the Coaster Brake Challenge MTB event
I’m not going to say it’s a good idea to have both a toddler and a novice use coasters though, when feet position is the difference between having fun and having to give like, a thousand daddy kisses.
The tire marks used to be 20ft long with these things
Living in the UK, I've never experienced a coaster brake. Until I bought an Electra Classic Beach Cruiser. OMG, it's horrid! So I got the shop to "delete" the coaster brake mechanism from the hub. Then I fitted some proper brakes, so I can actually ride it now and not constantly have to remember not to back pedal!
I had a 24inch Raleigh made in England,it had a coaster brake!
@@GrantJohnston-dr9rt That's interesting, I do sort of remember some UK bikes having coaster brakes many years back, but I guess they didn't become popular. Just checked Raleigh's website, and even their smallest kiddy bikes have both cable brakes these days.
1967
Remove*
🤣🤣🤣 watching Seth on a kids bike riding the trails! YES!!!
Most commuter bikes in the Netherlands use coaster brakes, they're incredibly useful when just getting around in flat countries or cities.
In the Netherlands, just dragging your feet gives you enough braking.
You dont get a say, you live on a flat plane and have zero experience of hills
You're gonna hear from a lot of people who will insist that stuff that works in Europe is a total non-starter in the US. ;)
Google "Netherlands quarry" that's how I'm falling from mountains in Estonia. Lifehack
@@MrBirdnose The US isn't all hills either :)
Back in the late eighties. Some of the kids bikes had coaster breaks and we would take the hub apart and take the brakes out of it. There were 2 pieces that you could take out and have it free will... I'm sure you could still do that... Love your videos.
Back in my bmx days i always did this. It was fun!
the design has barely changed and it uses the same fundamental physics. very possible
Yep did the same thing 30 years ago lol
I love my Huffy Nel Lusso cruiser bike with a coaster brake, although the other one I have which was turned into a motorized bike had the coaster brake disabled and upgraded them to V-brakes. Coaster brakes on motorized bikes are mostly a no-go.
I grew up on a bike with a back-pedal brake (Pionýr 22). When I switched to a bike with rim brakes, I fell over the handlebars once, and that has taught me how not to brake 🙂. Now whenever I try a bike with the back-pedal brake (bike-sharing services in some cities have these), it's so unusual and I always tend up to brake unintentionally...
There’s a couple of modifications that can be done without replacing the entire hub to disengage the coaster brake - however I’d only recommend doing this on bikes that already have alternate front/back brakes such as the Prevelo shown here.
If you’re confident in bike maintenance you can open the hub and remove the pawls and/or brake shoes. Pay attention to how the hub is held in alignment.
A second more straight forward option is to remove the reaction arm. This provides the counter-lever that engages the pawls and brake. The downside of this is the weight/drag of the brake shoes are still present.
We have the same laws to bikes here in NZ and I did the above to my 4/5yr olds BYK E-350 MTB and it made a huge difference in his trail riding and confidence.
wouldnt taking the shoes out cause the drive collar to come off the screw when pedaling backwards?
If you only remove the reaction arm, the hub will try to rotate in the frame along with the rim when the pedals are turned backwards. This is potentially bad.
Seems a fair bit of over thinking imo😅 just hacksaw/angle grind/cut off disc etc the arm down 👍🏾
Taking the pawls out is the way to go. I did this for both of my kids bikes immediately. My son struggled to learn to pedal until I got rid of the coaster brake. He would get going and accidentally pedal
Backwards and kill all momentum.
@@zanecatterall6783 Again, no. You don't want the hub axle to twist in the frame when you pedal backwards. The brake will still work with the arm cut off, only now it will grind your axle locknuts against the frame when you use it.
My first bike had a coaster brake. The first time I rode my sister's bike with only hand brakes, I didn't know how to stop. I started rolling toward a major road, so to stay safe I turned sharply into a curb and flipped over the handlebars. Needless to say, it hurt a lot.
Rode
But you learned right?
This happened to a good majority of kids if they started out w/ coaster brakes.
I actually gave my kid his first bike without coaster brake today, showed him how to use the v-brake, ran with him up and down the road, brake and pedal, then completely forget how the brakes worked and tried to stop by putting both feet on the ground, but the seat was to high for this to be effective so he got to choose between crashing into my car or the fence, and chose the fence. luckily he remembered (or heard me shouting "use the hand brake") and was able to brake a lot before crashing, so he didn't even fall over, just stopped suddenly with the front wheel in the fence.
My kid's first bike - a priority start 16, highly recommend - had dual hand brakes. He's never used a coaster brake, and there's a good chance he never will.
The other problem with coaster brakes on kids' bikes is that children develop a habitual expectation, almost an instinct, that backpedaling will always result in braking (even if their bike has handbrakes too). Then once they grow up enough to ride an adult-sized bike with a freewheel, it could get really scary and uncomfortable when they try to stop and suddenly realize that backpedaling doesn't activate the brake anymore! To a kid who's never ridden without a coaster brake before, this might feel like a law of physics has been broken; something in the world just isn't behaving the way we expect it to.
He literally covered that concern in the video.
I'd say that's not true. Most of Europe learned riding a bike on coaster brakes and never heard anyone have issues without them later.
my son learned to ride a bicycle, i.e. to pedal, within exactly 13 minutes at the age of 3. before that, we had him ride/roll on a running bike. there were hand brakes mounted and he also mastered the hand brake on the bicycle.
He hated the coaster brake system and never wanted to use it, so we bought a new bike for him and now everything is in butter :) Greetings from Germany
I bought a state bicycles Klunker with a coaster brake and mountain bike tires. The thing is a blast and I absolutely love flying around with sketchy AF brakes. 😆
Those state bikes look sick. I really want their classic road bike with the down tube shifters.
@@dylan-5287 fair warning if you get one, their QC isn't the best so really look over the bike front to back and have all the tools needed to rebuild on hand.
I got one of their single speeds and it took me almost as much time to set it up as it took me building a bike from parts and I've had to do a lot of maintenance over the year of riding I've put on it.
@@kuma_score7536 I bought mine from a local bike shop, they went over it and it has been fine. They did tell me to check the crank arm bolts every few rides. I guess they have a habit of working loose. Doesn't matter for me though because I've already ordered a new external bearing bottom bracket......
When I was a bike mechanic I would always offer to modify the coaster brake bikes for any parent buying a kid bike if they wanted. Either right away or during the free first service.
We never charged, it’s super easy to pull the hub apart and remove the ‘pads’ and the best part is they become a free coaster hub so your kid (or if the bike is sized correctly, you) can learn to roll back like a bmx god.
Thanks for this video highlighting the law… I took my daughter to a big box store today, and she wanted to try a bike… it took me a few minutes to realize how she was braking without pulling the brake lever 😂
When i was growing up (90's) my front brakes were almost useless but i had the coaster brake and it stopped the bike fine and could always be useless. I made sure that when i got my kid's first bike it had coaster brakes mostly because it was easiest to teach "forward to go back to stop"
Good video! The problem with the law is that it sets requirements on HOW to achieve something instead of specifying PERFORMANCE requirements. Pretty much any laws that do so don't allow for improvements on how things could be done so we get straightjacketed into old thinking instead of better/faster/cheaper/more reliable/yadda-yadda.
The US has an outdated law regulating rechargeable batteries. It specifically states that lead-acid and nickel-cadmium batteries must be easily removable from devices. I don't recall if it mentions nickel-metal-hydride. But since it doesn't specifically mention lithium-ion, lithium-ion-polymer or other chemistries, Apple and other companies can do things like use proprietary screws, glue, ultrasonic welding, resin encapsulation etc to make those types of batteries non-removable or extremely difficult to remove.
Came here to say this. Performance requirements should just be performance requirements.
My first bike, that was bigger than the one in the video had coaster brakes. It was great for leaving skid marks around the neighborhood 😅
Amazing - I've been pretty frustrated looking for bikes for my kids and finding lots of them having coaster brakes (in EU there seem not to be a law as such, but still 12" and 14" mostly have them). I was so happy finding a Bianchi 12" with hand brakes only - then from 16" wheels, the problem was gone.
Last summer I taught my daughter to ride at age 4. She learned balance using a Strider balance bike and we initially dabbled a bit with a used cheap kids bike with coaster-brake only. She had a hard time positioning the pedals to push off and had the issue with turning discussed in the video too. I found a 14" "KU Bikes" bike (from Germany) in my local facebook marketplace and bought it. She was riding proficiently later that day. Obviously kids can learn to ride with coaster brakes but learning on a bike without them seems so much more intuitive.
I didn't even know what a coaster brake was before I watched this! Here in the UK, the law states that a bike should have two working brakes. It doesn't state what kind of brake, it just says "a brake". If you ride a fixie, the rear wheel counts as a brake, in which case you're only required to have a front brake. We don't really have coaster brakes over here. Also, lane splitting is legal (nothing to do with brakes, but I love that lane splitting is legal over here!)
That explains it! Early Rider is the brand to go with imo.
Yep, never used fixed hub when I was learning to ride, only on really early trikes and such that were made to just be toys and toys only. Always had that freewheel and it is so much better.
Growing up in the 1970's in the uk i had a few bikes with the back pedal brake, i never had any issues with it nor did any of my mates who rode the bike.
Are they banned in the US because the majority of Americans dumb and hurt themselves? I can't think of any other reason why
i've seen bikes with a front vee brake and a rear coaster brake + planetary gear hub over here but then again that was an imported Dutch bike
@@charleslambert3368Fancy. Sounds like my type.
You know I always liked those brakes where you can pedal backwards. And i was even thinking about whether or not I can get some for my bike now but you brought up some very impressive points about how your chains slips and mines do sometimes it would leave you with out breaks. This opened my eyes 👀
You always should have at least two independent breaks anyhow.
"if it's not working properly, you can just counteract it with brute force"..... 😂 I feel like you've just summarized my entire life.
As a child I fondly remember the coaster brakes, they were a blast to ride. A lot of fun doing spin outs and the like, certainly a lot more fun than rim brakes. That and Banana seats, and Harley style handlebars.
Mine was a red Schwinn got it for christmas
Seth, to me this is one of your best videos of the last 2 years or so. I don’t have kids and I live outside the US (not sure about the legal requirements for kids’ bikes where I live), but I feel like you absolutely nailed it on this one. Your passion for biking really comes through (fueled by your passion for your daughter I guess :D - love the zombie line!!!) and to me this video had much of the more off-the-cuff feel that your earlier videos used to have. Really enjoyed it. Have a good one. :)
This is just the thing with Seth's content, none of the stuff discussed was relevant for my daily life either. Still a top notch video and Ab amazing viewing experience!
Klunkerz vibes, MTB was born with coaster brakes and downhill 🤣
I remember the first time I was on a bike with a freewheel as a kid, I tested it out after my dad had built it. When I was going to stop, I tried to use the non-existent coaster break since that's what I was used to. I hit the curb and fell over, damaging the rear derailleur, breaking the bike within 1 hour after I got it. Thankfully dad understood, even the guys at the shop felt sorry for me.
Another great video! I've loved watching your channel grow over the years, well done mate.
Pedal back brakes as we call them in the UK - I couldn't imagine anything more hazardous for my children. They have enough to contend with when learning to ride a bike. There is no law in the UK, must be a US thing.
How about.a video on converting a BMX to a geared bike, 10 speed or something? There's very little content out there on this. Great for a project.
Looking forward to more great content. Namaste x
Always a good day when Seth posts
In germany we call it „RÜCKTRITTSBREMSE“ and I think it‘s beautiful
My 30 year old huffy bike has those sketchy caliper breaks. I honestly forgot that coaster brakes existed. Thanks for the reminder.
Had a coaster hub break back in the 70s. The bike shop told me the actuator can shear off. Fortunately I’d fitted the coaster hub on a bike that had hand brakes
Finally Seth found a brand which makes bikes in his size
Grown up as a kid almost all my bikes had coaster brakes on them and I kind of miss it because it was so much fun just to lock up the bike and slide on the gravel.
me and my friends used to ride around a turning point that always formed a puddle at the edge and compete who could splash it the furthest. it promptly stopped once we went over to rim and disk brakes not cause we couldn't do it anymore but because it was now easier to go into the forest behind our neighborhood or bomb the big hills without worrying about or breaks going south
Only fun if its not you that has to pay for a new rear tyre every two weeks ;)
I did it with hand brakes as a kid! It was a lot of fun!
@@TheSH1N1GAM1 Hand brakes? We used to do it with the footbrakes as well ;)
Coaster Brakes were amazing when I was a kid, All my Bikes had them up until I got my 1st Mountain Bike when I was about 14. I never had any trouble adapting to the hand Brakes but part of me has always missed the awesomeness of what we called foot brakes back then.
Right there with you on the fighting zombies for my daughter. Those training wheels are coming off soon!!!
I'd love to see an adult sized coaster brake mtb video for comparison!
I had a flat bar SS 29er w/ coaster for a few years that was downright terrifying but also felt like surfing when you really slammed backwards in the corners. I loosened the kickback to give me closer to a quarter turn before it bites; made a huge difference.
Fun Fact if you stip out a coaster hub, it can then be fitted to the headstem thread on an old set of forks now it becomes a huge axle.
this feature can be found on some side carts (3 wheel/2 person racing BMX)
Cut and weld these to build a trailer, one sided fork or 4 wheeler that is has a stong axle without a frame to conect to the out side of the axle, like a wheel chair.
When i was 6 or 7, back in 2006/7, my first bike only had coaster breaks. It was really weird when i got a new bike that didnt have that anymore. I kept trying to stop using breaks that werent there lol.
When my son was three years old, my wife bought him a bike for his birthday. We never checked it for a brake system. The only brake that it had was a lever mounted to the frame that a little kid was supposed to pull back and a pad rubbed the tire and that would eventually stop the bike. My son only had it a short time and, unable to stop, drove it off the deck and fractured his arm. We got him a bike with a coaster brake. When we took it back to Toys R Us and explained the problem, they refunded our money and we noted that the bike was not being sold the next time we went in.
Very good discussion of an important topic. Thank you Seth, for showing the pros and cons of coaster brakes.
Over here in Europe, bikes are not only leisure sport items. There are some people who commute to work with a bicycle. And this is where a coaster brake can absolutely shine. I have gone through dozens of brake shoes for cantilevers, v-brakes and disc brakes, but I have never worn out a coaster brake, not a single one. These humble things are true workhorses. And they're absolutely unaffected by weather. Rain? Snow? Mud? Cold? Hot? The brake works just the same. This only applies for drum brakes and roller brakes, but they don't even match coaster brakes. Snapped brake cables I experienced a few, but I never lost a properly tightened chain. In the sports niche I understand the safety argument against coaster brakes. For my two kids, I want coaster brakes on their children's bikes. If this doesn't apply to your riding situation, I'm fine with that. Protect your kids, choose wisely. ❤
This has been my general experience with the various hand brakes as well. either they're always wearing out, or they're not clamping down enough to begin with. lots of fiddling, very little consistency. It really makes me miss the old coaster brakes, they were always very consistent. I have lost a couple chains, but it was due to heavy use, and they just wore out.
I remember my first bike and even back then I was appalled how bad the front caliper brake was, as I felt like it would be really good to have a powerful brake on the front. I think I even tried to adjust it to be better at around 6-8 years old. If that bike had a freewheel and cantilevers... I'd probably have understood the idea of mountain biking earlier.
I remembered those! First while I road a free wheel I had sooooo many scared up shins when a foot slipped off a pedal or something lol.
I have a transition mtb with a coster break! Yes, it came that way from the factory! I find it great fun to ride trails on. Make them more challenging!!
When I was a kid 40+ years ago, I figured out that you could take the rear hub apart, remove the shoes inside the coaster brake and boom - instant freehub. I did this modification on a few friends' bikes. But I agree - those early cheap caliper brakes were sketchy AF. I was also called upon to tune them as I was pretty good at setting them up to work reasonably OK.
I feel like a loophole for this would be the bike manufacturer offering a swap when the customer buys the bike. The manufacturer could send them a wheel/tire combo for the customer to swap on, and have the customer send the original wheel/tire back to the manufacturer. The manufacturer could then use that on a new sales bike, or swap the hubs out (since they have the tools/know how) and sell/swap it to another customer. The only cost would be shipping for the rimset.
Ever sense I can remember have a coster break has been a struggle, i’ve always wanted to level my peddles or make a small peddle backwards, I have fallen off and shot off so many times because of the instant break when you peddle backwards.
I really liked my 2-Speed “Kick-Back” coaster brake hub I had when I was a kid. 😊
And now I'm thinking about a video where Seth fights zombies on his bike for Halloween.
Anyone who has met Seth in real life knows that the bike he is riding throughout this video is the correct size
As a pre-teen kid getting into BMX in the late 70s my first bike was a WEBCO (somewhat similar to a Mongoose). It came with a coaster brake. When I upgraded to hand-brakes the guy at the local cycle shop sold me a kit to convert my hub so it free-wheeled for under $10 bucks. I think it was called an Un-Brake. A few small parts I was able to swap out myself.
I grew up on coaster brakes. Spring back and hub lock tended to be big issues as they aged. Lived the caliper brakes although some were too cheaply made and would move forward and back during braking. I'm torn on the cantilever brakes. I like them but I hate working with them.
I was very skeptical about disk brakes until I got a bike with them. Now I wish all my fleet had them. Aside from my vintage Redline of course.
I was one of the few people at the company I worked for years ago that could service coaster brakes, so after fixing one , I pretty much had to do all of them ( on busy days I wish someone else would have been trained to help handle the workload)
Power to the parents! Great video Seth
my first bike as a kid had coaster brakes. was real fun to be skidding out on the back tire on one!
Seth, my 3 years old has already mastered his balance on the strider balance bike. What would be a good next step bike after the balance bike to learn pedaling?
The amount of times I crashed because of coasters breaks as a kid was wild
Funny, I crash more with rim caliber brakes getting wet as a kid in the 1970s. I have never own a BMX so maybe our use for the bike were different.
I think a lot of my crashes were caused by not having a front brake on a coaster brake bike.
Any crashes I had as a kid on a bike with coaster *brakes* (not *breaks*) was because I was intentionally locking up the rear wheel to skid it... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes...
When I was a kid I had a bike with a coaster brake, and it was fantastic. After some short time muscle memory becomes so precise that you develop confidence to try anything with the bike. That was 15+ years ago and I was never as confident with the brakes as with that bicycle until last year when I bought my first mountain bike with disk brakes.
Same here but, as I dimly recall, what I did with the brake was get the bike into a slide so I could go where I wanted. I don't believe I actually tried to stop the bike with the rear brake.
UK here. I’ve never even seen a bike, kids or adults, with a coaster brake, so this was really interesting!
Thanks for the understanding!! I’ve been so frustrated with these brakes! I didn’t know it was a law.
I’m looking to convert my Daughters bike from a coaster.. to disk brakes or pinch style.. any recommendations on brand of levers for a small hand(4 year old)