The "Raised Reversed Stem" broke my brain. It might be genius.
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- I received a box containing the "Raised Reversed" mountain bike stem. Install this on your bike, and you'll surely agree that it looks completely sketchy and unstable. Surprisingly, it's not, and in this video I'll explain why.
I'm continuing to test this stem and will give long-term results at some point, but in my early tests this thing felt good on descents. On climbs, I wasn't quite adjusted to it and I've heard the same from others. The creator of the Raised Reversed Stem completely disagrees, and says you need to get used to it and change your body position to see the benefits. He seems like a genuinely smart and honest guy, and so I don't doubt that he could be right. I just don't see it yet.
I've seen some other concepts like Mondraker's "Forward" geometry, which do have some similarities with the RR stem, but nothing yet that transforms a normal enduro bike into something so confusing.
At $400, the RR is probably the most expensive stem you can buy, but considering a single engineer created this in tiny numbers with what we can only assume is an outsourced CNC service, the price makes perfect sense. Is it worth it? That will take me more time to tell you, but it's worth a discussion.
Free yourself from the algorithm and join us on Substack! 🚲 bermpeak.substa...
Videos 2 weeks early • Exclusive articles • Discussions • You’re in control!
bemorebikes.co...
Berm Peak Hoodies, Beanies, Jerseys, Shirts
cognativemtb.c...
Want us to review your unique mountain bike or outdoor product? www.sethsbikeh...
Check out our main channel / sethsbikehacks
Follow me on Instagram / sethsbikehacks
Berm Peak Merch cognativemtb.c...
Music in this video is from
share.epidemics... 
Спорт
Obviously time for Seth to make a DROPPER STEM.
I see the missing link between the dropper for the seat and for the handlebars!
3d printed dropper stem
Yep... this would deffinetly solve the problem when climbing, just as a dropper seat tube does. Only sacrifice is a bit of weight..
Matter in fact, I would love to have something like this on my bike.. here in my area we have huge and steep climbings, for even steeper descends..
Yeah, dust off that 3D printer Seth, that'll go well :D
Actually, there's one...
In 1985, a team of five Geoff Apps' designed 'Cleland' off-road bikes fitted with CW mini riser-bars competed in a downhill competition at Small Dole in England. The 'Cleland' bikes rode like BMX bikes fitted with 650B wheels and won against all the other teams using standard MTBs. It's crazy that nearly forty years on this geometry has still not gone mainstream, unlike Apps pioneering use of 650B and 700C wheels.
Geoff Apps is way underrated! Geoff basically independently invented bikes for off-road use. Those Cleland’s had really tall bars, super short stems, big 27.5” and 29” wheels with bigger tires, and a whole bunch more really cool features. If I remember correctly Geoff took inspiration from Trials motorcycles. I truly believe that if Geoff had received the right kind of support during those early days of the history of mountain bikes, the geometry that I am introducing now would have already been standard, or at least would be less radical. Unfortunately we got road bike companies using their road bike knowledge to design modified road bike components and frames to sell to a largely road bike audience as a new way to get outside and have fun. We have been slowly working our way away from those early road bike roots ever since we started to branch off in the first place. I’m a fan of what Geoff started with the Cleland bikes!
I recently came back to Mountain Biking using my Trek Superfly 7 hardtail from a period of only riding Motorbikes and the main thing that I found really hard to get used to was the riding position but specifically how hunched forward I am on the AM bike.
This guy is onto something.
Looks very similar to my bar position on my enduro dirt bike and how i have it setup.
Seth needs to file a patent on the Dropper Stem immediately.
he cant, he told us about it.
@@deadprivacy He can, if the original idea is his and he can produce a unique and original way for it to be achieved, he can file a patent for it. If there are no (valid) objections, a patent may be granted.
I saw a dropper stem specimen in 1998 at a technical college fitting and machining department .
@@bobtahoma But he can't, im already filing the patent today.
@@bobtahoma oh indeed, but he cant patent the concept, which if he was first to envision and hadnt announced . then he could.
i cannot think of something more ill conceived and dangerous though.
accidental activation at speed woukld have to be mitigated in ways that would likely be prohibitive to the weight of such a concept.
People don’t realize how much more control you have with higher bars that are comfortable to ride with
Most riders likely couldn't care less but I think the whole concept is very interesting and it does create more questions and "what ifs." I would be very interested in any follow ups on this stem or other experiments with bike/steering geo. Nice job, Seth, of controlling the skepticism and being as objective as possible. Well put together I'm no bike mechanic but I love knowing how things work.
Hi there. Ordered mine today after talking with Bronson and swapping emails. This all started because of this video. Thanks!
I'm still riding my 2002 norco torrent size small and I'm 6 feet tall I've got a Funn adjustable stem that I got almost right away and still love riding this bike. Great video thank you for your interesting and fun information.
This might actually be a result of industry wanting to sell us bikes that are too long for us, which puts us in a lean forward position.
I'd be curious to see what a rider position looks like with this vs. a frame which is sized down. I know the arms will be lower, but rider weight might be ditributed similarly.
Very good thinking. I was between M and L sizes on a Ripmo and sized down, and it has been super confidence inspiring. I wouldn't even have room for this stem on that bike.
Interesting video! One thing I missed was the consideration of the angle your arm makes. There's a difference between steering when arms are angled more downwards versus when your arms are more parallel to the ground or bicycle. Pushing forwards&downwards versus pushing (more) forwards.
DROPPER STEM, yes! I wouldn't mind having that clamp on the left activate both the dropper post and the dropper stem at the same time: when the seat goes down, the handlebar moves up, for more stable descending. And vice versa for ascending...
It's actually a continuation of the short stem.. Think how so many run a 59mm stem where as 15 years ago they seemed twitchy and odd to many.. Also dome triple crown downhill forks were always capable of fitting the bars over the steering tube. I suspect it will make the front end lighter, easier to pop over things on decent but more difficult to climb with and change of body position and weight required to load the front in such places as gravelly/slippery corners..
I am vertically challenged. I mean REALLY vertically challenged. I am not a mountain biker but I do like getting around on two wheels. I have adapted just about every bike I have ever had to fit better and if flipping a stem around helps me get the right reach I just go for it. The first time I did it I was a little leery about what might happen to the handling, but there were no ill affects. Since then I just do whatever works. Bicycles seem to be pretty tolerant of what you do to your stem and handlebar configurations. I guess you just explained why.
just concluded after re-watching a lot, you could re-create this stems gains by making a riser bar that puts it at the same angle and height, and it wouldn't stick out as much making it possible a viable option for people that care as much for their time as much as their bikes looks!? maybe we should try running really tall trial bike bars on an enduro or something to see if that works?
Basically, it's inspired by a MX / FMX bike stem / geometry. No wonder it's providing such stability compared to other MTB stems in the market.
That geometry section was really interesting thanks
Totally makes sense that it would feel good while descending
We need a repositioning stem that adapts to situations; like a dropper post!
you could basically use a good old BMX bar to have the same effect. Anything you do to your Stem & Bars does NOT affect the bike's FRAME GEOMETRY, only your RIDING POSITION.
The RR (Raised Reversed) stem is not the same as a very tall bar. The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. It allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike over more for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better and feel more confident in steep terrain. A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently. A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
Honestly it looks like it'd be totally fine but also identical to any other rigid mount.
Makes sense, it shifts your CG back. Excellent for downhill and for uphill you’ll need to use T-Rex arms. 😊
Next is an adjustable stem. Up like this for downhill/speed runs. Rotates down and forward for climbs.
P.S. Commented this after the intro, then saw you mentioned it near the end. 👍
Wow, the guy is so pro hes got everyone confused while hes winning nonstop.
Please hire assistant deputy volunteer sheriff Dwight schrute to verify your investigation results.
You should try try a normal stem with BMX style raised handlebars.
The RR (Raised Reversed) stem is not the same as a very tall bar. The RR stem is both Raised and Reversed. Due to this your hands will be notably behind the steering axis of your frame instead of in front as they traditionally are. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. It allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike over more for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better and feel more confident in steep terrain. A really tall bar or even a long steerer tube with a bunch of spacers or a stem riser would just be higher up without the Reversed offset, and as such will perform a lot differently. A really tall bar is also not ideal because it will move your hands quite significantly relative to the steering axis when adjusting bar role, and is more reliant on having a very strong hold at the bar clamp on the stem to keep the bar from slipping forward and back.
Isn't this like every stunt bike, beach cruiser, and first bike we had a kid?
This is actually really normal geometry to most dirt bikes. The weird geometry is just hidden with a gas tank and plastics which make it look normal.
That's what I thought the first time I saw it.
I’m also thinking BMX. They don’t have a lot of forward extension on the stem and the rise built into be bars can allow for them to be in front of or behind the steer tube.
Some BMX bars laid back a little probably accomplishes the same goal.
This is what I was about to say. Motorcycles do this all the time. Risers for bars are actually often added for taller riders (e.g. TAG bars). They really helped me when I used to race.
I always thought the head stem going forward was mostly about extending the reach for comfort
Came to say this lol I ride dirtbikes and this looks like a totally normal bar riser. I have some pretty tall risers on my WR450f.
Yuuuup. First thought was motorcycle. The more neutral arms gives you way more ability to position and adjust on the bike. My big complaint about a mountain bike is I'm leaning so far forward just to be able to keep decent position, and it feels incredibly unnatural vs my motorcycle where I'm slightly forward on the seat, but legs and arms are bent.
TRUE STORY: 1986 I left the subsidiary of Shimano, married their secretary, quit my Cat-1 road racing status and started riding mountain bikes. To my surprise I found it extremely difficult to climb on mountain bikes because my hands wanted to be in the road bike gum hood position when climbing. Unfortunately MTB H-Bars do not have such a position(s). So one day I decided to cut some old stems, shimmed them up and bolted them up on the ends of my H-Bars. The next day I want out to ride and discovered I could climb like a Cat-1 road bike pro but on a Mountain Bike...! Little did I know I just invented "BarEnds" and these weird looking handles were about to flip the entire MTB market on its head, and make me a rich man.
So I called up my friend who we used to work together at the Japan group/Shimano and asked him to come on over to see my new invention, so maybe we can start our own business together with the $3,000 dollars his mother offered us if we started our own business together. For some time I've been telling him I wanted to start a bike biz and name it onZa...
Anyways, he shows up and he sees these hideous metal rods sticking out at the end of the H-bars and says "DAN! No one is going to buy and put on those stupid ugly looking things on their mountain bikes. Sorry Dan, I'm not interested I'm going to keep my new Import job I just got." We then had a few beers and called it a day. About a month later, he calls me to tell me he is not happy at his new job, and wants to know if I made any improvements on my ugly invention? I said yes, come on down we'll pound a few beers and I tell you how much they've improved my mountain bike riding.
Just before he went home he said "OK I'll ask my Mom for the $3,000 dollars and go 50/50 business partners and we'll use that name onZa.
And just like that stem you are testing is exactly what we went through trying to sell BarEnds out of our car visiting bike shops all up and down California. The first bar-ends were hand made by a Porsche exhaust pipe maker. After a year of trying we only did $30K in sales... I was about to throw in the towel when the president of GT bicycles called us in our tiny kitchen office. Richard Long invited us to lunch and wanted to talk to us about our onZa bar-ends. When we met the next day Richard told us how his racing team has been using our bar-ends with great success racking up Cross-country wins. He then shocked us when he said he wanted to spec our onZa bar-ends OEM on two new models for the new year.
The rest is onZa history.
So yes, I think this ugly duckling of a stem is going to change the MTB industry. Great Job on Your Story, and I think you should partner up with this person and make your suggested improvement(s)!
Sincerely, Dan Sotelo aka Mr onZa
Interesting story, thanks for sharing and congratulations on your success
How cool that you took the time to share this story, and clearly are still passionate about all this. Thanks!
Bullshit
Danny Sotelo! Thank you for ALL the onZa goodness and innovation all those years ago and thank you, too, for my REDONKULOUSLY gorgeous, nickel-coated Box brake levers!!! What an awesome story!!! And yes, Bronson is a forward-thinker and a genius!!! I see him doing incredible things in the years to come!
I had onza bar ends and the chill pills 👍🏻
To anyone who has ever ridden a motorcycle, this doesn't look weird at all. Nothing looks weird or unstable here, this is how dirt bikes work. I routinely extend handlebars up toward me with risers.
Cyclists are weird sometimes when it comes to ergonomics and geometries of bicycles.
It's like they despise having comfort and control for "aero" or "stability" for stuff that will never reach past 50mph unless they are on a death mission type downhill.
@@TheInsaiyan Getting into this sport more and more and it's abundantly apparent how easy it is to upsell to this market. It's insane.
I think it's hard to admit that maybe bikes just aren't that complicated and don't need that much development and research for 95% of people. I'm also still just new, maybe the nuances are lost on me.
Right, very common. This seems like such a non discovery, discovery. Likely stems from the lack of cross training in today's era, that was popular during the 90's, before the rift with MTB and OHRV.
@@TheInsaiyan Yea, I think a lot of things are done because of “tradition” and if you can’t argue with them because you just don’t know and the research shows X… even though the research when you look at it has been completely misinterpreted. Or it was just research on one very specific dude.
Seems it has taken a few big rocks to the head of mountain bikers to realize Dirt Bikes have been solving these issues for decades. Mullet setups are becoming super popular and now the raised stem.
One of the first upgrades I did on my dirt bike was a raised stem for singletrack riding. Changed the game for me.
It almost looks like they are trying to take dirt bike steering geometry and put it in mountain bike geometry with that raise stem. Because the way you are describing your mountain bike handling now is pretty similar to a dirt bike. I really want to try one of these stems
Instead of getting the rise from a stem like this, you could also try to find sufficiently wide dirt jump bars. Maybe those are easier to find.
@@sebastianjost super high rise(~80 mm)bars should do the trick
Damn right. I want to try, not buy it. Lol.
This is a cool idea, but it would only be relevant for some downhill trails. A raised stem is useless on an XC or even trail bike if you enjoy doing steep climbs. It is already hard enough keeping the front end down. Moreover, having your arms bent more with a raised stem reduces biomechanical advantages (the further into a pushup you get, the harder it becomes), which would greatly fatigue riders on long, rough descents. It is most useful on Enduro motorbikes (where it has been the norm for years), because it increases downhill stability, but doesn't induce too much fatigue (as the bike itself is heavier than the rider, and absorbs most of the load).
And everybody’s just crying that you can’t turn super Uber tight in it uphill lol like who even wants to do that anyways??? Crybabies
I love the fact that you can really hear how annoyed and confused Seth was that he liked how it felt as he rode it 😂😂
You should start timing all your different test runs down that trail both so we can see and so you can see the difference with parts like this and the more mundane and normal ones aswell
I need to be better about timing stuff!
@@BermPeakExpress you can use any old videos to be a pre existing data base
@@BermPeakExpress This would actually make for a VERY interesting video series: design specific tracks to test different things (a track with drops, one with jumps, one with berms etc etc) and run (some of) those several times when testing a new product. That way you'd have some more reliable data that could be really useful for us!
Would probably be a lot of work (but, hey, more videos!), but the benefits to the entire community could be pretty massive. You could even build it at Berm Park so anyone could test their setups on the same tracks!
@@BermPeakExpress you should look at the FMF XTR stem riser with 110 mm extension... It can stand completely vertical or reverse and has a double locking mechanism for safety... It is the best in the market...
@@BermPeakExpressyou should look at the FMF XTR stem riser the 110 mm version that can stand vertically up with a double locking mechanism for safety it is the best in the market...
I had the pleasure of meeting Bronson when he was still developing this he’s always been so sure of his product. So rad seeing you showcase his product 🙌🏻
Seeing his stems gives me a little giggle at every SoCal enduro race. As well as the “ask me about my stem” shirt
I literally rode adjustable steams on my hybrid and I ALWAYS cranked it as vertical as possible. For me it was mostly comfort...but its controllable.
Mondraker used to do a zero reach stem when they introduced their forward geometry about 10+ years ago. It didn't quite look so goofy, but also didn't catch on.... Didn't have the same rose but would be interesting to do back to back testing.
I was thinking the same thing. The Mondraker wasn't as tall but it did sit pretty high on top of the steerer. I was a good idea but didn't catch on.
Exactly. Not quite as high but the same thinking
Yup. Put some 2” riser bars on in it and it’s pretty much the same thing
I rode my mondraker today. Funny thing is I just randomly brought the stem height up today about 5 mm (one spacer) to see how that felt on my ride vs the other way around, and to my surprise, even descending it did not improve the ride quality over the lower position. It actually felt worse all around
Do you remember Eric Carter on rotec downhill bikes back in the day?
Also,azonic used to make a zero reach stem around the 2000 era
I actually got a similar effect when I rode a true downhill bike for the first time. Super tall fork, kinda shorter reach, felt really nice. Then I went back to an enduro bike on the same descents, and felt so sketchy with the slammed handlebars
slammed for aero on those thin tyres for things like that french thing.
going downhill, the fact you're not hunched forward brings your centre of gravity away from the front wheel, but it'll be back there if you try to get the 'arm are part suspension' thing with slammed bars.
Loving the raw riding footage at the end, just gives your real time thoughts and reactions
rare berm peak moment for raw riding
They made a change like this on dirtbikes over the last 20 years. They moved to higher bars because overall they're better for handling fast corners, whoops, and jumps. They have the advantage of not needing to change body position as much when climbing because you're not pedaling, so you can keep your body in a better position especially with wider foot pegs they've added. But with mountain biking and pedaling up hills, maybe you're onto something with a dropper stem 🤔
Exactly.
Dirt bike geo hasn't really changed since early 90s
@@Biggestshredder Yeah. Current front ends fit to bikes from the early 90s and late 80s quite easily. My 2003 CR has Solva suspension that's only a couple of years old and the geometry isn't much different. Bar position is just personal preference as the ergos are the same as my 1980 YZ465.
was waiting to see this comment... thank you
I was about to comment the same thing.
It always brings me so much joy how excited Seth gets about something being potentially sketchy. It’s like, if you describe to him a situation that could cause him bodily harm, he’s trying to figure out how to ramp it up one more step. This resonates with me.
Шаг дурака?
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡💩💩💩💩💩💩💩
Sketchiness runs in the blood, especially since seth used to do bmx.
You should watch Sam Pilgrim if you aren't already. That dude loves sketchy stuff.
@@fryloc359 he’s t he physical incarnation of the word sketchy
After neck injury I had to raise my stem with a 3'' extension. My bike looks weird but I can ride in comfort, and I never felt a compromise on performance (intermediate rider). Good to see that probably performance riders will gradually implement raised stem geometry, my bike will have nice company! :) Nice way to share how it takes time for people to accept change like with dropper post.
tez mam przedłuzoną rure sterową - przedłuzka SATORI
I raised my bar for the same reason. (neck injury) Didn't go three inches, but it really made a difference. I would consider this if a lower version was available. (maybe 1/2 the height) I already use the shortest stem I could find and 40 mil riser bars to be able to look out far enough in riding position.
Very interesting video. Do you think you loved the shorter reach aspect the most, or the taller stack? I'm curious what the revel's stock reach measurement is compared to your sage. I'm also curious if this would improve the ride of the sage or if it would make the reach too short.
Time to throw it on your Binary Maniak and find out!
@@denverk7062 I love getting experimental. You'd be surprised how few bike companies experiment with different things. That said, there are a few that REALLY think outside the box and come up with great stuff.
My guess, is the stack is what is making the biggest difference as it changes your centre of mass the most, putting it farther behind the front axle on a steep descent. Also keeps your body itself a bit more level.
This is by far the biggest complain I see with new bikes. "why are the bars so low?" Maybe we need to see a bit taller head tubes on bikes. Back in the old days, we also used to have a big rise on a stem, and on the bar. By the early 90s we all got put into 6" below the saddle bar positions for... reasons? It has been a slow recovery since then, and even today an enduro bike made mainly to go down a hill has a bar that is level with or below the saddle.
I reckon that, due to this stem moving the body position to put much less weight on the front wheel, its main drawbacks will be technical climbing (as Seth pointed out) and loose, flat corners (which he didn't seem to test). Both of these are abundant in Arizona, eh? So I'd be curious how you or Tess might get on with this stem. As for myself, I've had to fix both those problems (accidental wheelieing on tech climbs, and front wheel washouts on flat corners) by putting on a *longer* traditional stem, so I probably wouldn't even bother trying this one.
Steve, hopefully you'll be reviewing this stem sometime right? Seth's videos are amazing but your "review skills" are unmatched. I'd be super curious to see your thoughts.
I gotta say it, I never, EVER, have been mountain biking.. always thought it was cool though. I don't know what it is about your videos, they keep me so drawn to the point where I feel like I have been riding for YEARS and now I need to know what it feels like to ride with this stem lmao Keep up the kick-ass content!
Oh man.. ya gotta get on cl and find yourself a bike man! If anything.. just go to the local stadium stairs haha.
You gotta try sometime. Just rent a bike and go ride your best local trails or go to a downhill park. You'll find it's so much better than even Seth's videos can portray.
Bro get off RUclips and go ride a bike
Buy a bike man 😂
Time to get yourself a MTB man!
I changed my hardtail’s stem and bars to a bmx style, around 4-5 inch rise, mainly for comfort, and when I took the first corners I was stunned. So sharp, so stable. I probably lost a bit of control low speed but it feels nice. For a cruiser, city bike, I’d go even taller.
One of my biggest gripes about MTBs is the mounting of the handle bars. As soon as bought my 29er I started to look how I could modify it. I have never understood the (very) uncomfortable riding position.
@@zerobeat2020 I put a short stem and even a height extender even on my road bike because I have an old man back already and can’t be bothered with looking cool instead of feeling like I can actually ride for a while.
I did the riser handlebar fing too with my old Cannondale V900 . Handles fully sick Bro! Scored some Bear 🐻 Traps 🪤 for her yesterday too. ❤️🎨✨🍀🇦🇺
Simple fix for climbing: add a hinge and lockout that allows the stem to pivot forward and down into a more "standard" position. There are already designs that do this on triathlon bikes. When you get to the top, just flip it back up, lock it in place.
can't find any
mentioned for triathlon
Mountain biking is moving towards lower gearing and shorter crank lengths (150mm or lower). This stem makes me think the owner rides a short crank with an ultra low gear that they can spin quickly while climbing and they move forward on the saddle to balance the front end which also makes spinning low gears easier.
That would probably be really heavy/not very rigid, and this honestly feels good for climbing because it eliminates a lot of wandering
You can find these on some commuter bikes! They are designed to allow you to adjust your seating position between forward and upright. The Gazelle "Switch Stem" is an example of a tooless version found on a Dutch commuter. You can swap between an upright position exactly like in this video, and a dropped and more forward position good for climbing, in a few seconds.
this is one of those things with bikes that shows how silly we are as consumers. Technically, if you wanted the raddest descender possible you'd ride a bike with moto geometry and handling, just scaled to bicycle weights. Dirt bikers have put in a shit tom of work making two wheels as fast and stable as possible, and mtb'rs are over here trying to reinvent the wheel or stretching and adapting road bike theory to mtb just to arrive back to where motos have been for decades.
Yeah, it shows bike W*ers are too rude to even branch out to MX. How can a guy with nearly 1 million subs not have ever looked at a fork leg for radial brake mounts, guess its unlucky for you
@@DJIInLondon weight.
Exactly!
Came here to say this
Came only for this comment. I actually thought about Ricky Carmichels 2004 Honda.
For those who think that 400$ price is too high. As a tall person (1.93m) I've always used XL frames. Because of long legs my saddle was absurdly high and thus the position was "long". Recently it caused pain in wrists and numbness in fingers - a lot of weight on my hands. When I first saw RR-stem, I was sure that this product is exactly what I need. I've ordered it as soon as possible. Today I’m after 3 days of muddy ascending and descending with RR Stem. What can I say? It is way better than I thought it could be. From the beginning riding position is absolutely natural. Cornering and stability is insane. Descending as told many times - exceptional. Even ascending is way better than with typical stem. No more pain, high comfort and great stability. And going back to the beginning - we pay hard cash for lighter parts, suspension tuning and many more things. I really fell that Bronson spend a lot of time designing and testing this stem. The change in the way that I am riding my bike is unbelievable. To sum up, yes this stem is a breakthrough. If you have opportunity just try it.
also itws gotta be pricey because it's gotta be safe. if your cheap derailer knocks off or plastic pedals brake, you could kinda save yourself it certain situations...if your handlebar piece snaps....no matter what you're doing you're gonna have a bad time. $400 seems reasonable.
Thank you for your input. I'm 6'7, many same issues as you while riding. Gunna have to really think about this now.
Sorry, that doesn't change the fact that $400 for a piece of anodized aluminum like that is robbery.
@@frtard 🤡
Why not just riser bars or a stem extension?
An issue with the whole caster, trailing, steering axis explanation.
It doesn’t matter that the hands are leading the steering axis. All that matters is the axis is ahead of the contact patch.
The hands are disconnected.
You could have the bars way behind the axis and steer it like a rudder, it would still be inherently stable.
It would not be easy to ride due to physical positioning, but it would not affect the stability of the bike.
For steering like a rudder, recumbent bikes are often an example of this. It takes a bit of getting used to, but is perfectly ride able.
If nobody is on the bike I 100% agree with you, but can you help me to understand why it still wouldn’t matter with a rider descending, pushing on the handlebars? I’m not an expert on geometry by any means, and I’m open to being wrong on this point!
As a competent rider (which you clearly are, I have been watching for years) you know you shouldn’t be “pushing” on the bars.
You are just guiding them in the right direction.
The only influence you have over the castor effect is the weight of your body on the pedals/seat.
Which if anything helps the castor.
Yes you do push and pull on the bars when riding, but not to affect the steering, just to weight and unweight the front wheel.
Just another thought.
When you do push on your bars you are are not generally pushing forward, you are pushing down through your forks in line with the axis of rotation thus not changing the axis/contact patch relationship.
@@rossgirven5163 when riding, you’re almost always pushing on the bars, just being in a stable position. Try getting into your attack position and then removing your hands from the bars without adjusting your body. It will probably not work too well
As someone who has raised my stem/handlebar for years (although not to this extreme), I never understood why people liked lowered handlebars. They're uncomfortable to ride on anything. If I wanted to lean forward while riding, I'd be riding a road bike. Thanks for finally putting an explanation to what was just a gut feel.
It's a faster posture for XC type of riding that crippled into anything else. And that came from road bikes, so you got it close
The forward leaning position on road bikes are for aero, in most other bike category's it also matters but when you're riding on stuff that isn't smooth tarmac you have to compromise some aero for control.
In downhill and trail you'd gain a lot from better aero in theory but you loose too much because you can't control the bike as well in those positions. Seems going in the opposite direction just sacrificing all aero for even more control might be beneficial.
On road you also compromise for control and comfort, its just not as bad control wise outside of crazy superman/supertuck positions, those are banned because they're afraid they sacrifice too much control so they'd cause crashes.
On Road bikes you also have less headtube angle, and narrow bars, so the long stem is giving you back a lot of the stability. I've tried short stem on mine but it gets too nervous, so went back to 70mm (witch is also short on a road bike) and its a better compromise.
Because not everything is downhill racing. Fortunately there is a bike for literally everything these days!
with older DH bike geometry, being able to keep more weight over the front wheel really helped with traction while turning under certain conditions. the bars on my modern enduro rig are higher relative to the pedals than on my old DH bikes, but I still feel the need to get weight over the front when I'm trying to get the most speed out of my turns. knowing the mechanics of this, it's understandable why people might be stuck to the whole "keep the front end low" mentality. If you could effectively weight the frontend with this thing, then I don't see why it wouldn't just as well as any other stem, aside from whatever purported benefits this has.
Leaning foward actually is very important. Just look worldcup DH racing in slow motion and watch how they roll over obstacles...
I like the idea of this. Snowmobiles have risers similar to this and some are even adjustable in height and front to back. Makes for more comfortable stand up riding and gives you a little more leverage to throw the machine around. Would be awesome to see Seth on a sled. Only problem is he might get hooked!
..Or Ken Block'ed
that and motocross bikes it actually makes a lot of sense
Sled risers have been getting shorter over the past few years
@@punkybeerconsumer the risers them self have been getting shorter but the geometry of the machines are higher requiring less and less riser Hight
@@xTOP_L3V3Lx The RR (Raised Reversed) stems position is very similar to a dirt bike both in stack and reach feet to hands and having your hands behind the steering axis. It’s interesting to me how similar they are considering the RR stem was not inspired by or designed to emulate the position of a dirt bike. I don’t even ride dirt bikes. The RR stem was developed over almost 3 years testing anything from below traditional height to about 80mm taller than the RR stem you now see, and anything from 70mm forward to -50mm Reversed always benchmarking against the traditional 50mm - 35mm stem. The RR stem that you see here is the culmination of all that testing to find the best Enduro mtb stem geometry.
This is what I’ve been wanting since I started riding MTB. As a motocross/enduro dirt bike racer, I feel like this would put my body in a more comfortable riding position and seems like it would give me better feel and front end stability. Not sure life long cyclist would say the same. For me, this seems like what I have been searching for.
I've been buying short stems and replacing what came with my bikes for 20 years, and it is absolutely more comfortable and feels more controlled. The "stability" that some like from long stems feels like mid-century American car steering slop to me. You definitely need to be aware of your leading distance/angle when considering a switch, including with your suspension compressed, though!
It is obvious really.. it really does not matter what engineering invention you find, it usually has been done before, or the basics were done back in the 1800's so some 130-200 years ago. Obviously not MTB's but other everyday machines and devices, the scale of most is what has changed simply as there was not the choice of building materials and manufacturing techniques.. Rgds
Its literally the same feeling i had when i saw descent bikes when being a Child. This thing goes good for sure. No way back
Haha I have Amoeba adjustable stem and it's all the way up, mimicking this stem, I can't even remember how many heated discussions I had with some "pro" riders. And this idea I got from my Yamaha Xt 600......
MTB’s have been slowly working from road bikes to offroad bikes. When they should’ve started at dirtbikes and just taken the engine out of the equation. Almost every “new” mtb feature is a dirtbike feature from 25 years ago.
This was fascinating, as a non-biker and an engineer looking to get into the hobby. Not having much experience with mountain biking but a lot of experience with mechanics in motion, it doesn't surprise me that this worked. What does surprise me is why it seems so surprising to mountain bikers that this would work - probably just my lack of experience but it would make sense cornering would be better as you would have more fine-tuned control over your steering inputs even if its on a subconscious level.
Common word in the motorcycle world is that you should always have a bend in your elbows to enhance control. This riser achieves exactly that.
I'm an engineer as well and I was surprised. My excuse is that I just get out and ride. I learn my bike and accept it's limitations. If I had more time, I'd be tweaking it every which way. I will definitely purchase the dropper stem when bro produces it. : ) The one quibble I'd have with this superb and funny video is that he said that all innovations have downsides. The dropper post for the seat has none that I can see. And be careful. You may become addicted as I have. And if you're over 50, the Specialized Turbo Levo E-bike is outstanding. Having a motor means I ride much more, and fear no hill. Please post videos of the innovations I know you'll invent.
As Storm points out; in the motorcycle world, elbows up and with a bend is how you maintain best control.
(go take a Danny Walker - American Super Camp class and they smack your celbows with a broomstick to remind you when you start to get lazy again 😂)
I think people will find the likelihood of the dead sailor will disappear with handlebars like these.
Yeah exactly, the moment of inertia is about the center of gravity, not about each wheel. Mountain bikers shift their body weight backwards so a more backwards handlebar is gonna reduce the affect of the moment created by your arms. Basically allowing for more travel of the front wheel. This would be an issue for a road bike where your weight is more shifted towards the center, but since you're on a mountain bike, thats counteracted by the overall shift in the cg in the x axis.
This actually makes a ton of sense for descending. However, I think the ideal stem height probably varies by bike size and rider height which is probably why Seth struggled to climb with it.
Im a mountain sledder and we’ve always had these sort of risers, so I’m shocked that this is new. Higher stem/riser should be good for descending and flat ground. When climbing you want a shorter stem to keep the weight more on the front tire.
Dropper stems, calling it
I remember watching a Remy Metailler vid where he said that most intermediate/advanced riders need to stand up more on their bikes when descending (stand taller, I think he said); it seems like this stem forces that approach. Very interesting.
I rode Bmx mostly years ago and I would try to keep my fork and bars aligned. To me it seems very similar to that unique stem. High rise and not to forward. It’s almost like setting up a mountain bike like a Bmx, (well in my mind at least). Keep up the great vids, always a great watch
im going to say the same thing it is just like a mountain bike with a BMX handle bar. dont need 400 to buy the stem to test it out just put a short stem and add a BMX handle bar. im sure it will fee the same way
Yeah, I saw the 5 minute introduction and wondered if they never saw a BMX or assumed their audience didn't. What's next, showing a bike with custom hub gear and inferring hub gears are some kind of mad science "that shouldn't work"?
i just said this!!!!!!!!
and still there are a lot of bmx pros (felix prangenberg for example) that ride their bmx bars so that their grips are directly over their front hub. it is just personal preference. i dont think that those goofy stemps would make worldcup riders quicker, otherwhise they wouldn't increase their reach all the time if it wouldn't work out.
I just recently put a taller freestyle bars on my BMX bike. It looks wierd and I think I am a little slower out of the gate, but I am so much more stable everywhere else my lap times went up about a second. I feel like I am in the bike, rather then on the bike.
I love it when bike bros "discover" things that are common in the motorcycle world :)
First thing I thought when I saw the thumbnail - "isn't that just a bar riser??"
Cyclists never fail to entertain
I was thinking the exact same thing.
lmao!
Exactly what I was thinking, this is common on motorcycles.
Yah
The stability of your steering doesn't come from the stem. It comes from the fork rake, aka caster angle.
The other important terms are perhaps Ackermann steering and kingpin axis. Both deal with four wheel steering, but might have some application here.
This is actually really interesting. I think I might know why this thing performs the way it does. I have this issue on my downhill bike a lot, when the handlebars are lower and in front I feel weird going on super steep stuff or jumps cause my body position is too far forward so I’m not as balanced on the bike. When I lean back it gets better but my arms are almost locked out so I have less control. When that stem is on, it pushes your weight back forcing your center of mass to be farther back on the bike. This is why corners are really nice with it, too much weight on the front in a corner gets sketchy but if you move your weight back it gets much more smooth (especially at high speed). That’s why he said he felt like he couldn’t keep the front down when climbing, cause his center of mass was farther back on the bike. This is my take anyway. Not gonna lie, I’d totally buy that lol
Yes, this is clearly the reason. No mystery. It optimizes the body positioning window for downhills to the detriment of climbing body position. It's a give and take.
@@oskjan1 meanwhile the creator of this stem basically says "can't climb with it? skill issue." but this does indicate that clearly, bar height should vary for uphill/downhill applications. I mean, obviously. As mentioned, the instinct to balance is pivotal to biking. I do like the idea of having some slack in your elbows while riding though the cost of having to pull my wrists probably behind my spine to get a good angle for climbing seems a bit... steep. (L.L)
Love the riding footage of expecting the worst and immediately being surprised 😂
Every benefit mentioned here reminds me of how I felt when I put a 60mm riser bar on my bike. My downhill confidence skyrocketed and I have to sit on the top of my saddle for long steep climbs. My bars look a little goofy too. Definitely worth it.
I had a 50mm riser on top of 60mm Shims.. still rocking 40mm Shims for my dh bike...
Would love to see a bike build around it, because it just makes sense to me: not overloading the front, keeping an active riding position that isn't as hunched forward as on a road bike. Sign me up!
@@0Haldor0 I've been kicking around the idea of trying out the Farr ST Supa Riser bars which have a 50mm rise. I've been concerned the increased rise won't work well but from my research and yours and OmahaMTB experience it may be a game changer for me since I'm more of a descender than a XC rider. Thanks
@@justinkinkade2063 No guarantee though. I would love a short post here once you tried it out :)
I went from a 145mm stem to a 60mm and straight bars to wider riser bars in 2012 and it felt like a brand new bike. HUGE difference.
I'm relatively new to biking, but I always felt "normal" bars were too hunched over. I ended up buying myself the highest riser bars I could find, and found I was much more comfortable on flat and downhill, and I got less forearm, hand and shoulder fatigue. I do need to try a little harder to not wheelie on climbs, but overall it's worth it.
I'm curious what makes this thing any different than a riser bar + steer tube extender (or simply less trimmed steer tube).
The stem just makes you sit up and not be pitched forward. That is especially helpful on descents and corners, your center of gravity is totally changed, further back which is more stable. Having the elbows bent is always key. My coach in the 1980's would whip us on our forearms with his riding crop as he passed in his car if our elbows were not bent. That makes you more agile on the bike no matter what. A dropper stem would be key. Climbing even non-tech stuff, if steep enough is always hard to keep the front wheel down. Great vid. I liked the discussion of trail. Many people have no idea about that. Thank You for making us think. 👍🏼🚲💯❤
Cheers to stern, smart coaches.
yup just watched this and thought to myself... dropper stem
So it would make more sense not to cut the steer tube and just shim a bunch below the stem, This should get you closer to this interesting stem. Just a thought.
Yeah I thought the same. Seems overly complicated to mount this monstrosity when you can just not cut the steerer and mount a riser with super short stem.
@@TeamCykelhold yeah this would be for people who have already cut their steerer; but also new complete bikes already have a cut steerer that maybe only gives 50mm of spacer adjustment.
Or get some old bmx bars. Mtn bikes look silly with the little bars anyway
Been doing this for years, and using rise bars.
I use a stem extension on already cut tubes. It doesn't bring the bars rearward as much as this part obviously, but the benefit is similar. They are under $30.
A dropper stem can actually be a brilliant idea👏
Would love to watch how it performs 😃
That's actually a great idea.
I’m in for the rotate forward dropper stem
I had a suspension stem back in 93
Been doing this for years with super stubby stems and tall riser bars. This just looks like that idea turned to 11 and I'm here for it.
Ride dirt bikes my whole life and always thought my mtn bike dealt wayyyy to short at the bars. I feel way bent over
This makes sense to me. I come from a BMX background and I was comfortable with the raised handlebars on a BMX. Especially with jumping! But it has taken me awhile to get use to MTB and the more forward body position versus the more neutral body position a raised bar gives you.
Yes the forward position helps with climbing but Seth figured that out with an Axis bar dropper 😜
I come from a BMX flatland background myself, but had also spent my share of time in the trails as well.
My BMX is a heavily customized 1981 SuperGoose, with a 1979 Cook's Brothers laid back braced seatpost.
I've found that although the 20" bike is otherwise a bit small for average adults, the laid back seatpost gave me like exactly the space I needed between my knees and the handlebars.
My handlebars aren't original, but still sit up a bit high like typical BMX bikes from the 70s, 80s and 90s. I have the stem set as low as possible, given the height of the handlebars, and I have the hand grips directly in line with the steering tube.
I have the seat set parallel with the top tube, and basically I've found this geometrical alignment to work fantastic for me in most riding conditions.
My legs have clearance, my elbows have flex room, my butt sits directly on the same plane of rotation as my handlebars, and if I spin my handlebars around 180⁰ they're still in exactly the same position as they're aligned with the steering tube.
I've also found that it seems rather helpful that the axle span is almost exactly 3 feet, which is almost exactly half my body height.
Although my bike isn't a mountain bike, nor is it a typical BMX flatland bike you'd expect today, it indeed is an official BMX bike that was once used in competitions. I believe the steering tube angle is like 72⁰, but it's been forever and a day since I originally measured it.
Regardless, I've found that having a laid back seatpost with the seat height in line with the handlebars, the handlebars in line with the steering tube, and the axle span approximately half my body height to give me the best overall control.
Though I gotta say, it has absolutely zero suspension, and with tires pumped up to like 90PSI, you can feel every single pebble in the road/trail...
But hey, to each their own riding style huh?
Edit: Yes I'm a brakeless rider haha!
Exactly my case as well, I raced BMX when I was a kid and I am not satisfied with the MTB standard for handlebars.
I’ve found it’s always easier to notice when something is an improvement by going back to what you had before. The deficiencies the new product addresses become extremely obvious
The dropper stem is what I was thinking mid video. I remember climbing a huge accent and my chest was literally on my stem. I almost never complete that climb but this time.
I thought of that too, and it's probably nowhere near as stupid as it sounds, wich is EXTRMELY infuriating if you ask me. Especially seeing how hard the dropper post changed the way i ride, i'm completely in tune with seth about being worried this is good
I hate how stock mountain bike handle bars are too low. I think we can thank the road bikers and their aerodynamic position for the uncomfortable ride.
Been running extra spacers, short stem, and higher rise bars. It’s not an aggressive pedaling position, but I’m just here the downhill party anyway. Now I’m wondering if I should go taller! Great explanation of the geometry and function in this video!
I would say go for it! The RR stem is in stock. The RR stem is both Raised up and Reversed in offset so that your hands are ultimately behind the steering axis instead of in front as is traditional. The Raised height helps improve the riders stance with a better arm angle to the bars for confidence, proper bend in the elbows for control, and more rider weight supported by their legs instead of arms. It also gives a longer and better angled lever between their hands and feet to give them more leverage for maneuvering the bike. These help the rider to feel more comfortable and confident, and makes the bike more maneuverable. The Reversed offset improves and calms the steering dynamics. It allows the rider to position themselves on the outside of the bike when cornering to load their side knobs properly while also leaning the bike over more for a kinematically tighter turn. The hand to front axle position parallels a 58 degree headtube angle for ultimate confidence in steep terrain, with a steering feel that is less floppy and more direct than the stock headtube angle of the bike with a traditional stem. These help the rider corner much better and feel more confident in steep terrain.
You should do an experiment. Ride with this stem for a few weeks (maybe a month) then go back to your normal stem and see how you feel. And maybe get some people of different heights to try it out. I can't help but wonder if taller people might not like it as much as shorter people
I remember Gary Fisher (the man not the company) in about the early 90s came out with short stem/slightly longer top tube geometry for his cross country hardtails. Similar concept, nowhere as extreme as that stem. Felt great on singletrack.
The stem looks odd, but that's because we're used to them looking different. But then again look at any more traditional bike - your hands are way behind the contact point.
My buddy has been talking shit about his high rise bars and how much better his bike feels. He has them swept back in a similar riding position...maybe he's not full of sh*t after all. Lol great video.
One of the first changes I made to my bike was raised bars. Whish I could have found higher bars.
Maybe lol...Why would he be full of sht? Because straight bars work for you so everything else must be shit?🙃
It makes so much sense to me, for 15 years I’ve been saying to put a smaller wheel on the back when you go down hill and this stem has the same effect of raising the front of the bike.
This system makes sense to me because a smaller wheel will cause other problems, where the riser levels out the rider without trading obstacle clearance ability.
those exist now, they're called "mullets", and they're 29" in the front and 27.5" in the back.
there is the short lived 69r a 26" rear and 29'' front they were a thing for about a blink of an eye back around 2010 around the time 29rs came into the world. The thought was youd get the lower overall low end tourqe of the 26 to get you moving, and the 29 in front for easy rolling over objects that wheel size difference is like that of a dirt bike
Hell, back in the 90’s people tried 24 rear with their 26 front. It went away
This didnt seem like a bad idea from the beginning. It effectively gives you a more upright body position. It makes good sense, because the most remarcable difference between my modern gravity bike and my old xc bike is the geometry which makes me feel im not throwing myself head first into the trail. So maybe more of that should be good.
It really sucks that nobody seems to have yet experimented a really wide range of different geometries and really found some optimamized geometry
Super interesting design! Do you think that riser bars and a super short stem would do the same thing? (and look way better)
I think the answer is yes. That is what I am doing for years now.
Same here. Been using 35mm length stems and 60-90mm riser bars, and loving it! I prefer to be a little up front of the front suspension instead of this Reverse stem that actually takes the handlebar slightly behind it.
Imagine that with the lefty ocho 😂😂😂
Wouldnt a Short stem and high rise bars do the same?
This makes sense to me. After I started experimenting on my custom build, I've always found that putting my handlebars higher makes the handling better. And I also can see how this is not going to take off for a while, the cycling community in general is extremely opposed to anything that doesn't seem conventional and many people find all kinds of reasons and excuses for why something is not a good idea without even trying it.
Also, I think the correct way to address this would be in bike geometry, that is start making bikes with taller headtubes.
I always hated how hunched over I get with bikes. I get that its aerodynamic or what, but buddy my diet aint aerodynamic either, stop hunching me over so much lol
Seth what I love about you is you engage so well with the viewer, not only for the bike nerds but for those who aren’t. You make the videos and explain things how I wish I could. You the man
I wonder what the comparison is of this stem vs super high rise bars like Chromag FU40s in terms of position for your hands and steering. It seems to me that Bronson is trying to get his bike to be more like the older 26” downhill bikes in that they were very tall and the reach and wheelbase were both shorter and allowed you to apex with the bike further over. Seems to me to make sense since the older style bikes from 10-15 years ago you had to move around more and wrestle the bike around. Could be that for Bronson the changes of modern bikes have moved away from how he wants his bike to handle and this is his way of countering some of it to fine tune his style. Got to give the guy props for going out and swinging at something that seems so different to the norm. Kind of like the Grim donut, it seems like sometimes you stumble upon something.
As a bike noob yeah he explained it pretty darn well
I think the main benefit is you stand more upright on the pedals and take weight off the front wheel and put it on the back wheel. This will help you going over bumps and downhill. In turns you will probably end up with a more 50:50 weight distribution which you can adjust by leaning forward or backward. I raced dirt bikes for years and have ridden mountain bikes a bit and many bikes have handlebar heights set more for sitting and pedaling. That not how you ride on rough stretches however so this riser seems to help stand up riding styles.
You guys should try riser bars. They get you plenty of rise (a few inches) but without reducing reach, and -- this is important -- you're less likely to get popped in the mouth because the mouth-buster (ie stem) is lower than your hands.
Riser bars are really the only option because, aside from the product featured here, there are no stems available with any significant rise that are made for the newer 35mm bars.
@@ebenf6768 True. My main point is that one amazing thing about riser bars is that the stem is still low, so you can raise your hand position without having a tall stem that can hit you in the face on a big compression or crash. Most people who are interested in raising their bars are doing some downhill, and those people would be more likely to pop themselves in the chin area.
FINALLY, FINALLY, FINALLY we have a discussion about risers! I had no idea this was a thing & I've been wishing my bike had one. I can see how one of these would take a lot of stress off the back and wrists.
How’s the Big Dummy bike doing? And do you still have it?
I always liked to have tons of spacers and high, short stem in my mtb. Other riders made fun of my bikes that they look like city commuter, but for me it just always felt better. Couldnt really explain it.
I think hi rise bars are generally a decent solution. Kind of in between, also gives you a little more space to get your body foward. Climbing.
When I got back to trail biking a couple of years ago after such learning as I did on old full-rigid frames, the thing that caught my eye was how people were biking with elbows up and out, making a horizontal "iron circle" that would kill my (weak) shoulders. I like my elbows down and in where they can compress by bending and absorb shock and a riser bars are much nicer for me. Also I can have my head up, which is nice, and it's easy to move my weight fore and aft by bending or extending arms. It's maybe harder to get off the back for wheelies, so there's that. If you're controlling your weight (easier to do with an upright posture), steering leverage is just about the width of the bars, if you had a steering wheel like a car you could put your hands on it anywhere. But anyway you don't fast corner by forceably twisting the stem, you lean the bike, the trail angle/direction changes and around you go.
If you're having trouble on the uphills, try leaning forward with elbows close to your hips and pull the bars towards your belt, standing upright like a regular power lifter. Narrower bars (and a shorter frame) are going to makes that easier.
Of course I am an Old Guy who rides relatively gently so if what you want to do is rattle your brain free-falling down the chutes, maybe this new stuff is nicer for you. In summary and in conclusion, different strokes for different folks.
It's called wider bars offer better stability. And a low stem keeps your center of gravity low for better speed downhill. With your bars that high you can't keep the front tire in co tact with the ground as well and lose front traction.
Been riding with the RR Stem for a few months. It’s absolutely badass. Glad they are getting exposure here. Hopefully, this catches on and becomes normalized.
as someone that has used a raised stem for years , yea it's better , and as to the whole 400 buck fancy part thing well i use a $9 dollar part , and the difference is massive .
I've been running an extra 3 inches of stem height with spacers and the shortest stem possible for 4 years. This stem seems like exactly what I've been hoping for!
Castor- this is what’s happening in your car. Tilting the axes back slightly keeps your tires pointing forward and creates the return to center effect.
My biggest concern would be how it effects weight distribution while cornering. Seems like it’s gonna make it harder to keep weight over the front wheel, increasing the likelihood of washing out the front tire.
Bars will swing into your knees unless you have a looooong TT. Dangerous.
I would actually guess the opposite since it effectively closes the gap between the steering axis and contact patch. It also seems like you could maintain same/similar positioning with more arm bend in any given position.
Excellent review Seth. Mondraker did the zero stem a few years ago but it was too avant garde for most people. Maybe dropper forks would be a possibility too.
Fox had the Talas (Travel Adjust Linear Air Spring) Fork. They haven't made one for awhile, 7 or 8 years maybe.
@@jamestroud Yeah, that was a good system. I also had a pair of Marzocchi MX Pro forks that had a travel adjuster lever that held the forks down in their travel and that worked brilliantly on climbs (lower front, more preload). I really like these systems.
This did not look unstable to me. As a trained automotive tech the idea of positive caster creating stability is well understood. If what you suggest is true, I suggest bike enthusiasts like yourself have a lot of learning to do before they understand simple suspension geometries. EDIT: You still don't explain why positive caster works. Inclination of the steering axis to a positive caster cause the turning of the wheel to RAISE the height of the frame. This allows gravity to force the steering wheel to want to return to center by design. It isn't the leading-following like you describe.
As a mechanical engineer I thought similar thoughts lol.
I vote for the dropper stem. Let's see a prototype! Interesting concept; good video. Thanks for all your hard work on the channel.
Only a matter of time
Having my bars higher has been much better on my neck both up and definitely down. I rode with a 6 inch fork tube extender with an ultra short stem for years with a 3 inch riser bar. Then I bought a new fork and chose not to cut it. it is just as high as my old fork with the 6" extension. I put something like 10 or 11 spacers on the fork tube to take up the space. I put the same ultra short stem on it, and I even have a four inch riser handle bar. I love it. Downhills don't scare me as much when I had the lower bar position.
I don’t ride downhill - flat bars on touring bikes - and I use a fist full of spacers on all of them. Looks a little granny but I works so f&$k it.
@@andrewbrown9672 Yea, rather look granny and stay riding than stop riding or deal with more intense and more frequent after ride neck pain.
I’m thinking about this like 4WD suspension. If you mount your shock higher and add a longer spring, you can gain articulation.
Your higher mounting point adds upward articulation, and the longer spring (like the longer mtb stem) adds articulation downwards. Very cool!
Why don't just get short stem and high bar (i have gewane 90mm and it holds good 8 stair gap to problem)
Nothing you do above the headtube changes the steering geometry. The way the hanldebars attach just changes your body position while steering, and the amount of leverage you have.
As soon as I saw this I saw less weight on the front wheel which can be good for DH (not always as it may lose a little breaking). Your 'climbing' point of the front wanting to come up made complete sense. I would think it would help in the air to stop nose dives, no idea if you are more likely to loop out though? All in all a cool idea and props to the guy who made it!
edit, the dropper stem would be great. Only downside I see is the weight.
Having learned on a MX bike before MTB, I will say this makes a lot of sense and is something I always felt odd about regarding mtb geo.